I know this would add a lot to your production time for making the booster box game, which already requires time and effort, but I really enjoyed hearing you discuss your thoughts on this product while you opened. I think future booster box games could benefit from hearing your un-edited opinions about the set, maybe even some of the cards
I feel like I always go against the grain. what I hate about new products?? is re prints. like I come back after 12 years and they are still re printed lorwyn, morning tide. etc. like what the fuck. they can't come out with new cards?? but can come out with a new set every three months? really they not even new. it's the same old shit they re print. keeping our cards at low value. imagine if they actually came up with new cards like commander legends boulder gate??? for every new set. our old cards would be worth a lot. just disappointed that they keep re printing old cards. fucking hate that.
WOTC has created an environment where a set begins to feel obsolete the second preview season ends, because previews for the next set begin almost immediately. Together with the truncated, staccato storytelling forced by a blockless story structure, there's this constant feeling of life being lived on permanent fast forward.
It's kind of stressful. I worry about the future of magic. Because of this printing schedule, power creep is outrageous, no one can keep track of all the new cards, no one gers excited about releases anymore, and everyone's cards are obsolete within months.
This is a great set for players, its fun, its thematic, i would buy loads of it on sale. For those wanting cash value, no, for stores selling singles, no. But this is a game, for playing! Not the stock market. I think this set was great for players, but will go down as a fail financially. Wizards needs to SLOW DOWN. People will buy more of a set if a new one isnt out the following month.
I mostly agree, I've had fun playing the set on draft at my locals... BUT after you had fun with the cards you would want to play them, jk? nothing I pulled was actually playable, I've ordered a copy of tasha online and that will be the only commander legends card I will play like ever but again, I agree that they should have given time for this set to keep being "the new thing on the shelfs" also double masters is already obscuring this set as the video mentions, have you seen those reprints? modern, commander, pioneer, legacy, hell even pauper are excited (or traumatized) by that set
@@doomkingraye7692 i like playing fun jank so i'll use a few of these. I'm sitting at like 30+ commander decks of varying levels so i'll get some use out of it 😀
@@snarferyasmr3739 well, if you got the money to afford 30 of those you got it, i could maybe oafford 30 packs of sleeves 😂 anyways talking about the set, as a standalone is cool but its powerlevel is.. lackluster I bought tasha because I love UB, I love planeswalkers and I love winning with opponent's cards, I've been a UB control player forever
Yeah, same. I probably bought more cheap singles from this set than any other; lot of fun cards. But the market oversaturation from WOTC/Hasbro is insane; textbook case of "short-term gain for long-term loss"
@@enternamehere5498 that set is awesome. The dragon spirits are fantastic but it also has excellent ninjas and the cool lands the reinforced ronin is also a pet card
I was thinking this too earlier. Even SNC was a bit too fast and wasn't really what I expected (I'm quite new to magic and was SO hyped for a 3 color set). It's all just happening far to quick to keep up
Pre-release was probably one of the most positive experiences I've had with a new set. I opened Nine Fingers Keene and immediately decided I was going for it. When the rest of the table got wind of what I was going for, they actually went out of the way to help me get the pieces needed to build the deck. I only really found out about it after the games were done, but they really did help my deck be stronger just so they could see how it would run in the game. The deck was a blast as well.
Prof, I argue that this product was overpriced from the get-go, for draft, set, and for collector boxes alike. Many retailers are selling this set in its various box forms way below MSRP/whatever it is that they use for pricing. There's also the problem of clumping - ever notice how some boxes have the Battlebond lands and some don't? I first noticed this with one of Rudy's videos where he commented on it. There seems to be a trend where if one gets a box with Battlebond lands, then those are typically decent boxes. Worse is that this is reminiscent of Core 2019, where most of the value was in the Mythic slot - though, aside from a couple of notable rares, most of the value are in the ancient dragons - of which, even in the collector boxes, the borderless foil extended art varieties are hard as nails to pull. Definitely worth it to buy the singles where it makes sense. For reference, I have drafted this set and it was fun. If only they didn't pull some of the mythics - looking at you, Mana Drain - out of this set to put in Double Masters 2022. TLDR: Commander Legends Baldur's Gate is, and has been overpriced from the get-go. Most of the value is in a select few rares and the ancient dragons. Buy the singles and only buy the boxes when they are steeply discounted. To your point about the Box opening game being just that - I think there's a point to be made that it's demonstrative up to a point of where value is (or isn't) in a set, and how spread out or concentrated it is.
I agree with all of this. I didn't emphasize this enough in the video and probably should (I did mention it), but this should have NEVER been a premium priced product, it should have been the same cost as a core set from the absolute start.
I think the price hike did lead to better quality though, these cards feel great in hand, thicker, not as flimsy, it feels like the product itself has been physically upgraded a bit. (But it should still be 3.99)
the normal cards felt pretty nice, but the foils still suffer. I had to put a token card in during draft for Balor because it was just unfathomable pringled
I work for a LGS and we did a draft of the set when it came out. The locals love Commander here and I thought this would do so well! And it might have done better but it takes SO long to draft and then play a match of Commander. Expecially if you have new people coming in to play who never drafted before and thought Balduars Gate would be a neat product to get into MTG with.
Yup I like drafting but I rarely do commander draft/cube because it’s a whole day thing to build and play few games. To the people saying “it’s fun to draft so not a failure”, we’ll after the draft people actually want some cards to into their commander decks not just whole box of bulk.
Prof I had never even made the mental connection about Baldur's Gate having Set Boosters when it didn't need it, and 2x2 *not* having them when it arguably should. That's a very insightful pickup on your part. I won't lie, I broke the rule and went hard on Baldur's Gate thinking it was going to be a fun set to collect as a D&D nerd. Given there's practically zero value in the set booster boxes, what I did instead of cracking them was I gave them out to friends, and now we're starting an EDH boxing league with the set booster box being our seed starter. I'm really excited about it! Trying to turn a bad situation into something fun that we'll get value and enjoyment out of for months at least.
The reason we are not getting Set boosters for 2XM 2022 is that the draft boosters are set boosters. There are too many rares and mythics that do nothing in their archetype and overall card pool to be a good draft set. Either that or I am sleeping on Esper Blink all stars Zur the Enchanter and Varina Lich Queen as well as Bant Big Ramp Ramp payoffs Rafiq of the Many and Roon of the Hidden Realms. Really excited to play Mardu Sac staples Kaalia of the Vast and Mathas.
@@tbd3058 this just in, person with annecodtal evidence says everyone else is wrong! Guess we better pack up folks, can't beat such an ironclad claim. But seriously, sure the prof only opened a few boxes, but check out people like Rudy who have been doing mass box openings and they will all agree - this is a dud set. Not only that but it has clustering / randomisation issues where some boxes will get a plethora of battlebond lands and another box will get nothing of note and another box is loaded with the dragon cycle - something went wrong on the randomisation end.
I don't like to wax nostalgia of 'back in the day'... BUT...back in the day, probably pre-Ixalan when the block format was still used AND before the annual release of : - 4x standard sets (draft/set/collector/commander decks) - 2x standalone/modern/unique sets (un-, modern masters, etc). - Secret Lairs Its pure fatigue. I struggled to keep up with new cards back during Eldraine, and kinda lost more touch after Zend Rising. Not just wallet/pre-release fatigue, but the strategic LIMITING of EV of a given sealed product (they've purposes watered down the mythic/rare enough that draft boxes generally suck to push set boxes which are 'just enough better that ppl will edge towards these'.) Its also that fatigue of having to rebuild a standard/modern deck if you wanted to have 4-16 budget decks with cards from standard set/draft boxes. every 3 months you're deck is likely obsolete or nowhere near as powerful because of the power ramp as well.
@@djdrack4681 couldn’t agree more. I haven’t even been playing for long before Ixalan, but sometimes keeping up with sets and new cards has started to feel like a chore. I don’t want it to be a chore though :(
@@cyberfoxgaming8494 Don't get me wrong I'm getting boxes at wholesale prices sealed from Rudy, but I also buy a lot at my local LGS(s) (especially board games). I'm of the opinion that Ikoria, Kaldheim, and Streets are great sets: but I opened a set box each and have cards sorted but haven't had time to make >1 deck let alone remember the cards. Still a great game to place
@@dsper7640or in math terms. Spent $50. Made $34 back on the value of what I pulled. Happened to get a card valued at $15-16 and that brought me up to $50. But I only pulled $34ish worth of cards from the actual set. The List card helped me basically break even.
I thought it would be like Commander Legends 1 and pre order 4 boxes. I was lucky i pulled some of the more expensive cards and some of the cards I was looking for, still loss a Lot, but it wasn't as Bad as the boxes the prof opened
I'm SO happy to have been able to experience an in-store Draft for this set, even if I was late and had only a 3-player pod. This is a set for enjoying the gameplay of Magic and flavor of D&D
I remember Gavin saying Commander Legends was a love letter to commander, and that first set really felt that way. This set on the other hand feels very much like they didn’t have a good place to print more DnD cards so it ended up in the commander legends “tent” without really fitting the same flavor. I’m excited for a true Commander Legends 2.
I've drafted a couple of times and we always ended up with extremely synergistic, quite powerful decks and interactive gameplay. So, as a draft experience, it's among the best I had
The problem I have with this set is that it didn’t help the last dungeon decks at all. Should had been more venture into the dungeon cards. At least give us a mono black kill a creature venture into the dungeon card. Also how hard it was to pull the dragons in the boosters.
The dragons did feel incredibly rare, but jesus christ do I disagree with the dungeon decks. I made a sefris deck a while ago, before baldurs gate was even guaranteed. Overall was a fun reanimator shell packed into delving into the dungeon as quickly as possible with clone effects before either locking down combat or going infinite with clones and reanimator effects. The deck is now retired and I'm making a new esper deck because the new dungeon cards and initiative, as well as the undercity in general, broke the deck. I played 5 times with it since the upgrades and I just kept accidentally going infinite. Every time I got a single initiative card out I had essentially won the game, since Not only do the cards themselves give normally insane benefits for dungeon completion (tomb of horror adventurer), but with one or two cloning effects out I was completing the undercity roughly 2-3 times a turn cycle, and from those completions randomly going infinite on accident. The new dungeon is completely overtuned compared to the old one and has made dungeon decks a completely viable strategy, pushing them into the not quite Cedh sphere but close to it
I'm down with ANY mechanic that adds something objectively distinct to the game. And as a person who wants them to bring back Bloodrush for Gruul, despite knowing I'll never get that, I feel your pain
Recently saw a chart listing how many unique cards have been added each year from 2012 on. 2020 and 2021 had over 6000, this year is estimated to have over 8000. Compared to 1300 in 2012 or even 4000 in 2019 there's too much product, we get a new set every other month and Commander decks with each
The drafting in this set is some of the best I’ve experienced. Every archetype and deck built has power and interaction. It’s wacky and fun and I recommend it to everyone looking for a unique play experience.
I wholeheartedly agree. It was one of the most fun draft sets I’ve played, ever! My LGS had a precon night as well, again a very fun night and set. But I can also agree with the Prof’s sentiment. The ancient dragons will tank in price when Double Masters 2022 releases.
At the LGS I work at we have 2 magic nights, a edh night and a "Variety" night that is either a draft for the first 2 weeks after a set releases, or more variety edh games like ttt or emperor. This Friday will be the first Friday we haven't done a BG draft since its release, and the only reason is because we wanted to save money for the Quad master release a week later. For comparison, we drafted kami two times, SNC once, and we didnt even draft double feature, so having that much draft enjoyment from a set should speak volumes.
I truly hope this mismanagement does not apply to the sets still to come: Dominaria United and Brothers War. Really looking forward to those sets. I know they are standard legal so they shouldn’t be too pushed (hopefully) but the flavor and lore should be so cool. Really hoping the hit those out of the park.
Have to say that I agree with the Professor on this one. BBG is a solid product but its timing and proximity to Double Masters 2022 didn't do it any favors - which was unfortunate for me since I preordered 2 set boosters and lost money on both....
I also had an extremely disappointing box. So bad that I'm strongly considering never buying a booster box again. Might have had less than $10 in value, the rest just Chaff. It may be singles for me from here on out, and I usually buy at least 1, sometimes 2 set booster boxes per release.
@@jlateralus21 Don't let the worst MTG investment you've ever made scare you from having fun when cracking packs. I got a set box and got basically nothing . But I invited my friends, we talked about the new cards, and had a blast playing around with trash rares but fun ideas. Now I'm encouraged to bring some CLB cards as commanders to my pods for some awesome interactions. Cracking packs is fun but only justified by the price... unless you share the experience with friends!
@@XoIoRouge I just think that this set was way overpriced for what we got. I've had good boxes and bad boxes over time, but nothing was this bad. I do like cracking packs, but maybe they should've put more packs in each set booster box if they weren't going to put much value in each pack. The combination of less packs per box and less valuable cards in the set overall just made it a big disappointment.
I have drafted this twice and I am going to draft it s third time on Sunday here, I have been wanting to make a cube for d and d and this set has helped expand the possible cards for it. With everything being so cheap it's a great time.
I am some one who doesn't crack packs haven't since I started in Khans in 2014. I also besides buying singles, will draft things. My pioneer cube is going great. I am also a big d and d nerd. This set has had no problems for me but it's because of how I approach it. I just don't like how my local community outside my friends doesn't want to draft so I am having a hard time playing it more. I love this set but again it's got everything I want more DND flavor and cheap singles and a fun drafting experience. I've won both of my drafts. I'm a man who has bought into the DND dice masters. Drafted it once too.
The biggest flaw for me with CL2 was the lack of good reprints. Blade of Selves and Kindred Discovery are good cards sure, but they're not as universally good as say Three Visits, Commander's Beacon, Vampiric Tutor, Mana Drain, etc. As exciting as new cards are for commander sets, reprints is where I get a lot of my excitement for.
I agree on leaving Dockside out of the set, as I feel it's outside the play environment they're trying to encourage. That said, given the set prime is IP locked, I would have loved to have seen a Mystic Archive slot where you could have reprints within the draft packs. The Sevinne's reclamation and other such building blocks and old precon commanders of decks that are harder to come by.
They needed to add a few new dungeons. They had 3 in AFR and that kind of hinted that there would be more. Getting only 1 of them in CL2:BG, and force-fitting a new "have the initiative" ability in order to access it was a missed opportunity. What was so bad about "enter the dungeon" and adding a few more? It would've revitalized interest in AFR and possibly boosted CL2:BG.
They called it commander legends 2…that’s literally it. This set was not a Commander legends set. They also bait and switched their consumers by taking mama drain out. Ever since the walking dead BS I’ve said this company will never get my money again and man they sure are trying their best to keep it that way.
Wizards have been asking for this, too many products and splitting the powerful cards people want into a insanely packed release schedule. You are going to get sets like this becoming hard passes as the perception is they're poor sets with little money to be made. The fact this got released so close to double masters is just incredibly bad management. They need to throttle back in 2023.
Would love to go back to just 3 main story sets per year, plus 1 supplemental product each for "Masters", 1 set of Commander pre-cons, special draft (i.e. Battlebond, Conspiracy), and 1 other "special" product like an Un-set or cross-over
8:06 The Battlebond lands were the best reprints in the set, many were going for $10-20 before this released. But yeah, beyond those and the two you mentioned we had...Wayfarer's Bauble? A very welcome reprint but certainly not something we couldn't see in any standard set.
He also mentioned that Wizards should throw in Arcane Signet and "Boots", which were both in the set at uncommon. Another "Oopsie". Wizards doesn't want to put Sol Ring anywhere in a draftable set for a passable reason, though.
@@quasarkwell4823 To be fair its not always clear which cards are in the actual set and which ones are just in the precons given they have the same set symbol here, it gets confusing. So its very easy to assume that Arcane Signet and the Bewts were in the precons and not in packs, I don't remember if either were in packs for the first Commander Legends or just the precons.
Yeah, I will at least give them props for including das Boots, I was pleasantly surprised to pull 2 pairs of them, an actually useful and highly playable commander card.
What went wrong with commander legends 2: Battle for Baldur's Gate in 1 sentence; They attached a theme to the commander set, restricting their ability to reprint staple cards players care about while simultaneously hampering new design. Commander legends worked the first time because you had all sorts of weird cards, returning mechanics, and GOOD reprints. The original partner commanders, Vampiric Tutor, Three Visits, Scroll Rack, Rings of Brighthearth, and freaking MANA DRAIN. You had new cards people could actually care about, the completed battlebond land cycle, Jeska's Will, Sakashima of a Thousand Faces, Jeweled Lotus, most of the 3-color commanders, some of the new partner commanders, and Hullbreacher (while it lasted). Battle for Baldur's Gate gave us what for new cards? More gates that make other gates less bad? Ok that's great for budget players but I'd argue most commander players probably spend quite a bit, or they proxy the cards they want to play with and I say that as someone who ONLY got the new gates from CL2 to make a gates deck. 9 cards does not an exciting set make for me. Fingers crossed Commander Legends 3 if we even get that can just EXIST as Commander Legends 3 without having to try to be something else. I'd honestly be happier if it was a 100% reprint product.
@@theJmanStriketh The set doesn't necessarily need reprints to be successful - the cards in it just need to be able to justify the price point it is sold at. It can be reprints, or it can be new cards that can rival older cards. The main issue is the lack of anything useful in the long term apart from a few dragons. As a consumer, nobody likes to throw money away, and the eventual EV of a box (in relation to its preorder price) is what defines whether a set is successful or not.
@@Xinhuan02 I agree that it doesn't need reprints to succeed. But pushing 2x2 right after it with a ton of commander reprints is pushing some folk not to consider an otherwise cool set. It's getting lost in the shadow of cards folks are familiar with and know they want/need for their decks.
nope...i disagree....battlebond was not a commander set and they attached a theme to it of a moba style battle arena...and it was fully fucking loaded with commander staples....
Hey Prof! I went with a friend to my LGS as you preach for a draft of this set. I had A LOT of fun, honestly! I really loved my deck, which I can't always say at the pre-release event. So, I think this set is great on flavour and for the draft experience. As a matter of fact, I'm going to draft it tomorrow with a bunch of friends. :)
I want to start out saying, love you Prof and your integrity and forthright attitude is why people come to your channel, as well as your focus on the GAME of magic and not the stock market aspects of it. I bought this set before I saw all the previews. After seeing the previews I thought "Oh well, at least I'll get some standard chaff that I can put in all of my commander decks like lands and artifacts" After opening my boxes and getting 1 arcane signet and 1 command tower and 1 commander land (no sol-ring, no lightning greaves, no other universally playable commander cards), I was wildly disappointed and thinking, is this a commander set? It only reinforced something that the prof says often and honestly I had never really listened to before, "Buy Singles". WOTC has pretty much taken someone who wanted to buy their products and instead made them go to the secondary market to just buy what they want. The gambling aspect of cracking packs isn't even that fun if you know there's not even a possibility of getting half your money back. Now I have a draft box sitting on a shelf just waiting for some time in the future where my friends and I can just play draft because I know opening it is just going to be what it should be, a fun time with friends.
I am convinced the Commander Legends name was used to push orders from FLGS's and that alone. Paul Marketing hosed the set harder than anything about the set itself
This set is exactly what you're asking and it was a flop. The game pieces are dirt cheap and the draft experience is amazing. That doesn't make it a valuable set.
I had so many reservations about Commander's Legends 2 being locked to the DND universe since it limits the possible reprints. I also wish that they reprinted the Commander Free Instant cycle and Jeweled Lotus since there is quite literally no other draft set to reprint them in
Smothering tithe, dockside extortion, pitiless plunderer, and revel in riches all could've easily been reprinted in this set. Baldur's Gate as a city itself is a plutocracy with a thin veneer of sophistry - people in the setting have few illusions about it. There was no reason to go full treasure cycle.
It used to be there were six Magic sets a year. You had the four core Standard sets, a reprint set (think Masters) and a draft innovation set (something like Conspiracy). This worked out to a set releasing roughly every two months. That was already a lot of Magic. Now we get eight per year. Four standard sets (except sometimes we also get five like last year) and four whatever-the-heck-they-want-to-do supplemental products. That's a set every six weeks on average. It also means from set release to the next preview season is like, a month or less. That is simply too much Magic. And its also taking away from what should be great sets. Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty was (at least in my opinion) a best set of all time conversation contender. But already it feels like it came out forever ago. Its only been four months!
I dont mind this, as someone who only buy singles and only play eternal having regular updates is a good thing, of course it's bad for standard players but who cares they're all on mtga now
It is certainly sad that this set doesn't have 'value' because I imagine this means people are really missing out on the draft experience by not wanting to purchase the set. I've done 3 EDH drafts of this at my FLGS and it's so much fun. Sometimes I think the value proposition of the individual cards can blind players to the value of the play experience itself.
Some people buy products to play with it and some buy product for value. You can't force people to play with the cards if they don't want to. The problem is that if you don't have that second half of customers buying the product just for value, theres not enough people buying it for fun to financially justify the product (which means they are less likely to make more in the future).
My experience with card value. The more value in the card, the less fun I have, because the card essentially becomes auto pilot. Thats my two cents on it
I was making a Commander legends, D&D AFR cross over cube when this set was announced. Now i am making a cube of mostly this new D&D set and focusing on party , tribals of the party sub-types and voltron. with all the trappings of the conspiracy sets and i am now making commander jumpstarters so each player has access to command tower arcane signet and some other bits and pieces .
I almost wonder if we aren't going to see this set at some sort of discount chain because I'm not sure how many places they have left to dump excess product when so much is being churned out so quickly.
I think you make great points in the video, but I also want to add that I think CLB has a fundamental problem even aside from the context of it's release and set mechanics; CLB has been designed almost entirely around the idea of drafting commander decks. Others are free to disagree, but to me, a dedicated commander player, the idea of drafting commander is oxymoronic - it misses everything I like about the format, from the singleton nature to the large decks to the high power cards to the carefully constructed synergies and combos to the chance to build around a specific target card and strategy to the opportunity to get creative and dig out obscure old cards that make everyone do a double take and then call a judge. None of that is possible in CLB, so how can CLB expect to appeal to the commander market? To me when I look at CLB I just see a box of draft chaff and a few pushed rares I'll proxy or buy as singles to put in a real commander deck.
As I was going through the set looking for the singles I wanted to buy, I only found a few cards I'd want for EDH. Which isn't exactly great when it's billed as a Commander product. By comparison, I spent a full two days doing the same with the original Commander Legends.
It took me like 5 days to import all the cards I needed for my commander decks to cockatrice from New Capena. It took me like 10 minutes to do the same from CLB... that on itself says a lot
I really enjoy drafting Baldur’s Gate. I’ve been drafting it 1-2 times a week since the official release. I’ve found it’s multiple dragon based themes you can build a draft deck around to be a ton of fun along with the other deck themes I’ve played.
Came back to Magic being an adult with a nice job and a quite some spare time, loveld NEO, but I just couldn't keep with the release schedule Wizard is playing. Tank you for another fantastic video, great insight and THANK YOU for putting a name to something I was feeling but couldn't really identify: product fatigue.
What hurts here for me is that Double Masters feels more like a Commander Legends set than CLB, as mentioned. It's not just about money from selling cards, but giving people what they want for Commander in a set that's supposed to be for Commander at large, cards that people should have easier access to.
Baldur's gate is an AMAZING set to draft with. I've already drafted 5 times and each time it's better than the last! So many crazy commanders to try out and the draft experience is unique every time. My playgroup has even been able to get newer players into the game due it's flavor and obviously the commander games that follow from draft. I will be picking up as many cheap draft boosters boxes as I can to continue enjoying what in my opinion is an incredibly well designed magic set. Financially tho, cracking packs that is, is just not it for this set. Please go buy draft boosters and just play magic with these cards. It is one of the best limited experiences ever, especially for commander enthusiasts.
my partner and I did 3 prereleases for the set and even got our commands playgroup in on the fun at our LGS! I had a blast with it and getting a ton of cards that I’ve slotted into my Commander decks or built new decks out of (going on 2-3 new commanders leading decks from this set). I seriously think this set is amazing and full of quality new commanders and useable commander cards, and I think that a lot of people will come to like this set in years to come.
I liked the idea of backgrounds. It filled the same color flexibility space as partner and might be useful in regular decks. I think backgrounds had a detrimental effect on the power level of the mono-colored commanders in the set though. When half the power of your CMDR is in an enchantment, it's a little less exciting.
Furthermore, Verhey said that they didnt reuse Partners because the partner pool is large and made it hard to balance. That's a load of bullshit, they're just lazy and dont want to give us more 4c combos for some fucking reason.
I was very disappointed by the 2 set boxes I opened. 1 box had 0 dragons and 0 rare lands. The other box 0 dragons and 1 of each of the commander dual lands. Only other cards of value were archangel of thé and hall of the bandit liars off the list. :( It’s a fun set, but they should have at least upped the rare land pulls if they wanted to keep the commander legends label
I don't have a lot of experience with drafting, but attending the pre launch event was a blast. Yeah maybe the cards I grabbed aren't priced as high as others but the decks we build took us right up to the time limit to determine the winner.
I drafted this set 4 times and I wish my LGS had brought material for 4 times more. The different decks, the new mechanics, the flavor everything is great about it. I do agree that this set didn't need to be called commander legends, because that's what people didn't like about it, they thought it was commander reprints and pull people away from it. Now, Double Masters 2 is actually one of the best sets in card pool and reprint wise, but it's also the worst thing for MTG, because it's literally saying "If you don't have $500 free after paying everything else, then don't buy me"
100% true. On the other hand, people looking for opportunities will be happy it turns out like that. I have been looking forever to get good amount of old secret lairs at reasonable prices, then guess what? I was able to secure huge deals with people in need of money to get master2022.
I drafted on prerelease weekend and had a great time, I bought two draft boxes to play with my friends and I'm looking forward to getting together to do so! I also built a Miiryim deck with almost all of the cards being from CLB and it's been fun to play and even won several games. I know there aren't many powerhouses at a similar level as a Jeweled Lotus or a Jeska's Will, but I'd say it's good value for commander players, so long as you get the singles or intend to draft.
Waaaaay too many niche legendary creatures in the rare slot. A lot of those should have been cut for reprints and/or more interesting non-legedary cards. And a good chunk of them could have been downshifted to uncommon as well Bad set is bad
"good chunk of them could have been downshifted to uncommon as well"...this 100% im willing to bet, that modern master 2022 actually has the rares and mythics that were going to go to this set....and they took a bunch of the uncommon "legends" and bumped them up to rare and mythics so they can take the good reprints to that other set.
Hello, commenting as about a week after release I had hosted a draft of CL2 with my local group (had 16 total so 2 boxes). From what I learned after the draft, the mythics in total from both boxes was around 5 total. But. Everyone actually enjoyed drafting it and it didn't seem like anyone had any problems drafting it. There seemed to be enough of every color in the packs that it was only usually the last four cards is where you might hit a couple dead cards that don't fit your deck. The overall view was positive and since the price is dropping way below MSRP, I will most likely be trying to do another draft of this set in the future as while there isn't a lot of value, it is imo (and a couple of the other players I played with) still a good set and helps those who haven't really played commander before to try it out, learn how to draft, and enjoy creating a deck from a limited card pool.
Imagine a game that's fun to play and you play it because it's fun and not because you think your getting money for buying it.....its why I started playing games with my friends
I would love to hear you rant or just talk about any subject while you play the booster box game opening packs in the background like in this video, just a plane music with card openings can sometimes get a little boring, loved to hear you talk the first few minutes while opening the pack in this video.
Tin-foil hat time. Nothing went "wrong" with ComLeg 2 Battle for Electric Boogaloo. Everything went exactly according to plan. Wizards deliberate gimped the set by stripping any useful reprints out and moving them to Double Wallet-bang 2. They put the Commander Legends title on the set in order to charge premium prices to squeeze money from the distributors, who then pass that on the game stores. They wanted people to buy into this set with pre-orders in order to drive release date sales. They wanted people to hype the set and drive store engagement to force stores to stock it heavily so it would sell better to distributors, AND be disappointed in the set to that their misery and FOMO would drive them then ALSO invest heavily in Double Masters II: The Quickening. BUT, with stores and distributors stuck with pallets of Baldur's Gate left they can't sell and can't get rid of, they'll be left feeling burned and NOT be able or willing to get as much Double Masters as they would normally get for such an amazing looking set, which means the low print run that they already planned to do for the set will be justified, boxes will be scarce and prices on singles will stay nice and high to drive the next reprint set box. Why? Because Wizards doesn't care about local game stores anymore, and companies are never satisfied unless they have ALL the MONEY. Not some money, or a bunch of money, or even as much money as possible, ALL the MONEY. Who cares how badly this damages distributors and endangers game stores, who cares how badly this effects players, Wizards is playing to the stockholders with this one, loudly, and it's transparent and disgusting.
You Nailed it!!!! I had a great time opening the packs and explore all the awesome new cards^^ but yeah it is just drowning next to Double Masters... Greetings Jan
This set was extremely flavorful and a blast to draft. Apart from that the set has no $ VALUE $. (Yes the ancient dragons are worth a bit but that's it.)
@@tbd3058 no sir....they do not....as someone that cracks 4-6 boxes per set...this set has shit for value...unless you mean sentimental value, because it has no monetary value at all...what a disappointment of a set to open.
Not only did they not reprint commander cards in this set, they also reprinted Deadly Dispute. This reprint drove down the price on one of the bigger C/U hits from AFR. This cannibalized the other D&D set as well. Double whammy WOTC! Great work!
Made elminster and tasha decks, amazingly fun commanders but i got them super cheap and ive been saving money to get my 4 preorders of double masters - already spent a ton on of money on myg this year and find my self wanting to spend less and less
I’m brand new to MTG. I’ve learned most of what I know from your videos. And I helped create a public FB group so people who play Magic in my area could find each other and have get togethers. Western Mass Magic The Gathering
Naming and schedule. That and sections of the community that examine set only in its monetary value. And to be fair to Battle for Baldur's Gate: Yes, it has a lack of important reprints, but most people forgt about the Battlebond lands when speaking about this point
I liked the product for the fact that several cards on it are very useful, but you are right, we are overwhelmed with way too many new sets and card, which might cause good cards to be ignored because people will only focus on the 150 top OP cards and will ignore most of the other cards. Something that I see way too many times lately is people buying busters, or getting the price busters on tournaments opened, they pick hardly 1 card per buster and literally, trash the rest of the cards... which really hurts me.
My friend and i pondered that maybe: Wotc realizes that a recession is likey, so, knowing that there will be months of lowered demand, they opted to reaffirm their loyal player base at the expense of collector money. Collector/investor money is the first to go when spending slows. Player fanbase is just as addicted as scratch off buyers. Seems to me a reasonable action.
7:58-8:38 Baldur's Gate did have fantastic budget reprints though, namely Wayfarer's Bauble. And it did in fact reprint Arcane Signet and Swiftfoot Boots. Some other great reprints include the Battlebond lands, Reflecting Pool, Nature's Lore, Deadly Dispute, Lightning Bolt, Murder, Command Tower, Basilisk Collar, and Bramble Sovereign.
I actually do think this set was a failure. Hot take…but there are some things that make me think it would have flopped even without double masters. 1st point is that there are no “chase” cards in the set. If you look at commander legends 1 there was jeweled lotus, opposition agent, apex devastator and sakashima. All cards that were unique to the set that are really popular and fun. That is not even all the unique good cards in it. Then they went beyond that and had powerful reprints on top of it. A reason for all types of commander players to buy the product. This product missed on both of those metrics so hard and feels like a set that has decent dragon tribal cards and draft chaff. 2nd point is another one on the types of cards, though many casual players may not like it, powerful cards that do crazy things are desired by many people and drive demand in a way that can’t be matched, if you look at double masters, most of the hype comes from the power and this set just doesn’t have it. 3rd point is that they made a new way to have commanders, the backgrounds and none of them are unique and they definitely do not break new ground when it comes to strategies in commander, no commanders here really have a large amount of interest behind them because none of them are that interesting. The partner commanders in that set like sakashima and tevesh szat were very interesting on their own while opening up new ways to play with previously owned cards. 4th point is that wizards seemed a little greedy with this set by putting the label “commander legends” on the box to make players thing it would resemble what happened last time to drumb up interest that might not have existed on D and D ip, and while I want them to make money, I would rather they do it by making a product people genuinely want to buy and sell them like hot cakes instead of making a subpar product. I don’t ever really write about stuff like this in chat but I was super hyped for the crossover of D and D with the commander legends ideal. While I have never played D and D it has a very rich universe and that is something I want to see more of l. I have never been this crushed before and it sucks to see something I would have willingly thrown my money at be such crap.
It's kind of astonishing, when comparing both boxes, how much of CL1's value was on the cards in the actual set, reprints and all, whereas with CL2, so much of the value is in mythics and praying you get a List card or two of value.
MTG players back in 2020: "We want good and cheap cards, Jeweled Lotus is a cash grab, we hate this set!" *WotC take notes and print a Commander Legends set that is cheap and affordable* MTG players: "We want good cards that will make boxes a good purchase, the cards in this set are way too cheap, we hate this set! I play since 2007 and MTG player doesn't know what they want. This will never change.
People are always more vocal about the things they don't like, and much less often speak so vocally in affirmation of a product. Usually those quotes are 2 different groups of people, and are vocal at different points in time.
You're partially right... And if the set was $100 for 36 packs nobody would be complaining. They instead charge a premium by trimming the pack count. I appreciate that there aren't any broken mythics, and I actually love the set. It just isn't a premium product...its a regular product and should be priced as such.
Nobody is mad that this set is cheap. People are mad that this set isn't worth opening because it doesn't come with cards that the community wants to see reprinted. A commander product isn't gonna sell with just new cards alone. Most people just want to upgrade their decks.
Baulder’s Gate draft is incredibly fun. The set is full of great cards that outside of limited won’t see much, if any, play. But in a draft…! If I had a group of 8 I could regularly play with, I’d stock up on draft boxes, and (maybe) even build a cube of it.
Combining DnD with Magic was a mistake in my opinion. I would have liked to see more magic history incorporated into the set, throwbacks to history and old themes.
Gotta disagree. AFR was fun, especially when you draft it. It felt refreshing with all these unique mechanics. BG was just poorly implemented because they focused too much on commander
@@vDeadbolt I do agree that it’s a fun set and that there are some really good cards in it. I think it all comes down to perception and timing. Like the professor said, what if they took commander legends out of the title?
Hasbro might have a good idea here. I think value-priced sets are just what MTG needs. Imagine if this was released as a standard set but with a $75/$85 draft/set booster box price and $10 for a 3 booster draft pack. Market it as a lower-value set for beginners, kind of like a core set, and I think people would have been fine with it.
i drafted it at the prerelease in my lgs and i had a ton of fun. the cards in the set are not expensiv? excelent, that means i can buy them cheap and create a Set-cube with them! i love this set to play!!
This set has a lot of really fun cards - the backgrounds are such an interesting way to get around the issue of partners while still maintaining a similar feel with a unique twist (and the color limitations of the cards is also welcome). I agree that the set was mislabeled and it really just doesn't feel like a 'premium' product despite the increase in pricing. This is more egregious because of the siphoning off of EDH reprints into other products (more premium than premium, I guess) along with the reported collation issues where the mythic dragons are just appearing less than the other mythic cards and some boxes are filled with BBD lands while others don't have any at all - and none of this gets into things like The List which was such a homerun in SNC and such a letdown here. These boxes would be good with 36 packs at normal draft booster box prices and I might even pick up some if they drop a bit, as they stand this set is just plainly overpriced for what it delivers...
I drafted this set, commited to my colours way too late, had to have about 30 lands in my dec because of that and still it was a super fun draft and can't wait to draft it again!
Just got back from commandfestphilly and had tons of fun with the set, doing one draft and one sealed event with it (and beating Gavin Verhey in the latter). I saw a lot of excitement for the set, but I agree, moreso in playing in the sealed environment, rather than for any sort of chase cards. Heck, I got a better return on an AFR collector booster than a whole CLB box (thanks to borderless old gnawbones).
Interesting post mortem on the set, Prof. I focused on singles with Baldur's gate, electing to pick up a draft box after the price fall. This continues the trend of flavorful sets, with no supporting value reprints, will inevitably collapse in price. It's like a Mall with no bankable anchor stores: a series of small boutiques that can't amount to the value of a bigger store.
I agree with your points. There should not have been set boosters at all (or at least the rare slot should have been guaranteed non-legendary like the draft boosters). I have drafted it and it was such a fun experience! The initiative mechanic was very good.
Super agree, I honestly forgot that Baldurs Gate was supposedly a sequel to Commande Legends. Cuz it really feels more like a Commander-only sequel to the D&D set, almost like the Commander precons that come alongside the Standard sets, but as a full set instead of just precons. And the name Double Masters 2 just confuses me. What's double about it again? Cuz it really is just Commander Masters, or Reprint Masters. WotC really needs to name things better and space them out more.
After playing Baldur's Gate 3 I want to start getting into Magic The Gathering by getting a Battle for Baldur's Gate set or draft booster box. I don't have anyone to actually play the game with but I enjoyed the online version, so I would mostly be buying just to collect which I have been told set boosters are better for, I am wondering if this is a place worth starting at to see if I enjoy collecting them. I don't plan on selling the cards I get, only to eventually play one day. Want to know where other people recommend starting.
I had a lot of fun playing sealed with a friend for her birthday. We're both D&D players and we loved CLegends 1. Still very disappointed by the reprint quality and Double Masters 2022 is really rubbing salt in the wound there. It feels like I'm being dared to drop money on double masters after I just bot a draft box of the set immediately preceding it. But I still very much enjoyed drafting it and hey, I gotta go make a deck for that Boros Myriad commander because that seems really fun!
As someone who played DnD long before Magic, and enjoys both draft and EDH, this set was amazing. I am going to pick up a draft box to do a couple drafts with my friends, and then turn that pool with my left over AFR cards from pre-releases and make a DnD Commander Cube!
I drafted this, Time Spiral, and CL1 with 3 friends this past weekend, and we had the most fun with CL2. Sure, maybe not a ton of value cards, but the gameplay was great, and the Backgrounds and Undercity/Initiative were awesome mechanics.
I think you're spot on with why the product suffered. My play group and I really like drafting this set, but we're also Baldur's Gate / D&D fans so It kind of feels like it's for us.
The pre-release of this set was the first time I actually liked playing Commander, so I'd say it was great. The pre-cons are also awesome, and my long-dreamed-of horrors deck just fell from the sky into my hands
I was waiting around for payday, and going to pick up a draft box; have some fun with my playgroup, as we enjoyed Commander Legends and the first D&D set. But then spoilers for Double Masters soon followed and it was clear, I should actually buy a box of that instead, and just buy the few (cheap) singles from Baldur's Gate I'm after
I really do like a lot of the cards in this set, and I love they brought back Adventure! It was also a great draft experience. I also agree that they missed the ball on Commander reprints while simultaneously missing the mark, and I might be in the minority on this one, on the flavor they had with the alt art module lands...wouldn't have to be exactly the module treatment again but maybe a miniature stand in for the art, or a character sheet derived alt art concept.... something to tie it directly back to the pencil and paper game the way the module treatment did.
And, if you want to flash back tot he Commander Legends 1 Booster Box Game: ruclips.net/video/a_h0OeONfhs/видео.html
"my bad" with the long hair & beard has the perfect "fellow kids" vibe. Perfection.
Professor,
I just wanted to chime in with a pitch for a new segment. Call it the FaB booster *case* game. You get the idea 😊.
Cheers,
Reminifus
I know this would add a lot to your production time for making the booster box game, which already requires time and effort, but I really enjoyed hearing you discuss your thoughts on this product while you opened. I think future booster box games could benefit from hearing your un-edited opinions about the set, maybe even some of the cards
I feel like I always go against the grain. what I hate about new products?? is re prints. like I come back after 12 years and they are still re printed lorwyn, morning tide. etc. like what the fuck. they can't come out with new cards?? but can come out with a new set every three months? really they not even new. it's the same old shit they re print. keeping our cards at low value. imagine if they actually came up with new cards like commander legends boulder gate??? for every new set. our old cards would be worth a lot. just disappointed that they keep re printing old cards. fucking hate that.
8:57 Hey Prof, what’s the title of the tune used here? Thank you!
WOTC has created an environment where a set begins to feel obsolete the second preview season ends, because previews for the next set begin almost immediately. Together with the truncated, staccato storytelling forced by a blockless story structure, there's this constant feeling of life being lived on permanent fast forward.
It's kind of stressful. I worry about the future of magic. Because of this printing schedule, power creep is outrageous, no one can keep track of all the new cards, no one gers excited about releases anymore, and everyone's cards are obsolete within months.
@@SpiceWeazel 2x2 is just reprints, clb is still the most recent set and standard legal sets are still far ahead.
Homie, it's a fantasy card game. Take a breather, smell some fresh air, touch some freshly mown grass :)
I would be fine with 2 or 3 sets a year.
@@ethan6322 that's how magic was at one point with about 3 sets a year. Hard to keep up now a days
This is a great set for players, its fun, its thematic, i would buy loads of it on sale. For those wanting cash value, no, for stores selling singles, no. But this is a game, for playing! Not the stock market. I think this set was great for players, but will go down as a fail financially. Wizards needs to SLOW DOWN. People will buy more of a set if a new one isnt out the following month.
Totally agree
I mostly agree, I've had fun playing the set on draft at my locals... BUT
after you had fun with the cards you would want to play them, jk?
nothing I pulled was actually playable, I've ordered a copy of tasha online and that will be the only commander legends card I will play like ever
but again, I agree that they should have given time for this set to keep being "the new thing on the shelfs"
also double masters is already obscuring this set as the video mentions, have you seen those reprints? modern, commander, pioneer, legacy, hell even pauper are excited (or traumatized) by that set
@@doomkingraye7692 i like playing fun jank so i'll use a few of these. I'm sitting at like 30+ commander decks of varying levels so i'll get some use out of it 😀
@@snarferyasmr3739 well, if you got the money to afford 30 of those you got it, i could maybe oafford 30 packs of sleeves 😂
anyways talking about the set, as a standalone is cool but its powerlevel is.. lackluster
I bought tasha because I love UB, I love planeswalkers and I love winning with opponent's cards, I've been a UB control player forever
Yeah, same. I probably bought more cheap singles from this set than any other; lot of fun cards.
But the market oversaturation from WOTC/Hasbro is insane; textbook case of "short-term gain for long-term loss"
Honestly I'm still looking at kamigawa cards, definitely feel overwhelmed by the amount of releases
Also, that whole set is banger...
I did a sealed last night (from the date of this comment), and I totally forgot what anything in that set did
Same
@@enternamehere5498 that set is awesome. The dragon spirits are fantastic but it also has excellent ninjas and the cool lands the reinforced ronin is also a pet card
I was thinking this too earlier. Even SNC was a bit too fast and wasn't really what I expected (I'm quite new to magic and was SO hyped for a 3 color set). It's all just happening far to quick to keep up
Pre-release was probably one of the most positive experiences I've had with a new set. I opened Nine Fingers Keene and immediately decided I was going for it. When the rest of the table got wind of what I was going for, they actually went out of the way to help me get the pieces needed to build the deck. I only really found out about it after the games were done, but they really did help my deck be stronger just so they could see how it would run in the game. The deck was a blast as well.
Prof, I argue that this product was overpriced from the get-go, for draft, set, and for collector boxes alike. Many retailers are selling this set in its various box forms way below MSRP/whatever it is that they use for pricing. There's also the problem of clumping - ever notice how some boxes have the Battlebond lands and some don't? I first noticed this with one of Rudy's videos where he commented on it. There seems to be a trend where if one gets a box with Battlebond lands, then those are typically decent boxes. Worse is that this is reminiscent of Core 2019, where most of the value was in the Mythic slot - though, aside from a couple of notable rares, most of the value are in the ancient dragons - of which, even in the collector boxes, the borderless foil extended art varieties are hard as nails to pull. Definitely worth it to buy the singles where it makes sense. For reference, I have drafted this set and it was fun. If only they didn't pull some of the mythics - looking at you, Mana Drain - out of this set to put in Double Masters 2022.
TLDR: Commander Legends Baldur's Gate is, and has been overpriced from the get-go. Most of the value is in a select few rares and the ancient dragons. Buy the singles and only buy the boxes when they are steeply discounted.
To your point about the Box opening game being just that - I think there's a point to be made that it's demonstrative up to a point of where value is (or isn't) in a set, and how spread out or concentrated it is.
I agree with all of this. I didn't emphasize this enough in the video and probably should (I did mention it), but this should have NEVER been a premium priced product, it should have been the same cost as a core set from the absolute start.
I think the price hike did lead to better quality though, these cards feel great in hand, thicker, not as flimsy, it feels like the product itself has been physically upgraded a bit. (But it should still be 3.99)
the normal cards felt pretty nice, but the foils still suffer. I had to put a token card in during draft for Balor because it was just unfathomable pringled
not meijers, my bundle cost me 80 dollars, i was like what the heck
@@snarferyasmr3739 the cards feel like fake garbage. The draft cards are terrible and I legit thought they were knockoffs
I work for a LGS and we did a draft of the set when it came out. The locals love Commander here and I thought this would do so well! And it might have done better but it takes SO long to draft and then play a match of Commander. Expecially if you have new people coming in to play who never drafted before and thought Balduars Gate would be a neat product to get into MTG with.
Yup I like drafting but I rarely do commander draft/cube because it’s a whole day thing to build and play few games. To the people saying “it’s fun to draft so not a failure”, we’ll after the draft people actually want some cards to into their commander decks not just whole box of bulk.
Prof I had never even made the mental connection about Baldur's Gate having Set Boosters when it didn't need it, and 2x2 *not* having them when it arguably should. That's a very insightful pickup on your part.
I won't lie, I broke the rule and went hard on Baldur's Gate thinking it was going to be a fun set to collect as a D&D nerd. Given there's practically zero value in the set booster boxes, what I did instead of cracking them was I gave them out to friends, and now we're starting an EDH boxing league with the set booster box being our seed starter. I'm really excited about it! Trying to turn a bad situation into something fun that we'll get value and enjoyment out of for months at least.
I love boxing league! Such a great way to play, and the CMDR legends are a great start set for that.
The reason we are not getting Set boosters for 2XM 2022 is that the draft boosters are set boosters. There are too many rares and mythics that do nothing in their archetype and overall card pool to be a good draft set.
Either that or I am sleeping on Esper Blink all stars Zur the Enchanter and Varina Lich Queen as well as Bant Big Ramp Ramp payoffs Rafiq of the Many and Roon of the Hidden Realms. Really excited to play Mardu Sac staples Kaalia of the Vast and Mathas.
@@tbd3058 this just in, person with annecodtal evidence says everyone else is wrong! Guess we better pack up folks, can't beat such an ironclad claim.
But seriously, sure the prof only opened a few boxes, but check out people like Rudy who have been doing mass box openings and they will all agree - this is a dud set.
Not only that but it has clustering / randomisation issues where some boxes will get a plethora of battlebond lands and another box will get nothing of note and another box is loaded with the dragon cycle - something went wrong on the randomisation end.
@@tbd3058 pretty sure you just had some good luck in this instance. Value is evidently not there.
If they put tithe, drain, and dockside in CL2 nobody would complain, but instead they chose to milk the community for every ounce of value.
Agree - I was hoping they would have put the Teferi's Protection in as well
@@cyberfoxgaming8494 maybe not T'sP. I mean, he controls time, not dimensions.
I don't like to wax nostalgia of 'back in the day'...
BUT...back in the day, probably pre-Ixalan when the block format was still used AND before the annual release of :
- 4x standard sets (draft/set/collector/commander decks)
- 2x standalone/modern/unique sets (un-, modern masters, etc).
- Secret Lairs
Its pure fatigue. I struggled to keep up with new cards back during Eldraine, and kinda lost more touch after Zend Rising.
Not just wallet/pre-release fatigue, but the strategic LIMITING of EV of a given sealed product (they've purposes watered down the mythic/rare enough that draft boxes generally suck to push set boxes which are 'just enough better that ppl will edge towards these'.)
Its also that fatigue of having to rebuild a standard/modern deck if you wanted to have 4-16 budget decks with cards from standard set/draft boxes. every 3 months you're deck is likely obsolete or nowhere near as powerful because of the power ramp as well.
@@djdrack4681 couldn’t agree more. I haven’t even been playing for long before Ixalan, but sometimes keeping up with sets and new cards has started to feel like a chore. I don’t want it to be a chore though :(
@@cyberfoxgaming8494 Don't get me wrong I'm getting boxes at wholesale prices sealed from Rudy, but I also buy a lot at my local LGS(s) (especially board games).
I'm of the opinion that Ikoria, Kaldheim, and Streets are great sets: but I opened a set box each and have cards sorted but haven't had time to make >1 deck let alone remember the cards.
Still a great game to place
I only broke even on 8 packs cause I pulled something from the List worth $16ish and not any value cards from the set itself… :/
8 packs not worth 16 bucks. confusion.
Hahaha lucky!
@@dsper7640 it was the $16 that brought me exactly up to the amount I’d spent getting the packs
@@dsper7640or in math terms. Spent $50. Made $34 back on the value of what I pulled. Happened to get a card valued at $15-16 and that brought me up to $50. But I only pulled $34ish worth of cards from the actual set. The List card helped me basically break even.
I thought it would be like Commander Legends 1 and pre order 4 boxes. I was lucky i pulled some of the more expensive cards and some of the cards I was looking for, still loss a Lot, but it wasn't as Bad as the boxes the prof opened
I'm SO happy to have been able to experience an in-store Draft for this set, even if I was late and had only a 3-player pod.
This is a set for enjoying the gameplay of Magic and flavor of D&D
I remember Gavin saying Commander Legends was a love letter to commander, and that first set really felt that way. This set on the other hand feels very much like they didn’t have a good place to print more DnD cards so it ended up in the commander legends “tent” without really fitting the same flavor. I’m excited for a true Commander Legends 2.
I can't agree with this more. It shouldn't have been a commander legends set, and it should have supported the previous d&d set. Simple as that
Totally - the original Commander Legends was a great set and both a great draft experience and also just fun to crack packs if you like doing that.
I've drafted a couple of times and we always ended up with extremely synergistic, quite powerful decks and interactive gameplay. So, as a draft experience, it's among the best I had
The problem I have with this set is that it didn’t help the last dungeon decks at all. Should had been more venture into the dungeon cards. At least give us a mono black kill a creature venture into the dungeon card. Also how hard it was to pull the dragons in the boosters.
The dragons did feel incredibly rare, but jesus christ do I disagree with the dungeon decks. I made a sefris deck a while ago, before baldurs gate was even guaranteed. Overall was a fun reanimator shell packed into delving into the dungeon as quickly as possible with clone effects before either locking down combat or going infinite with clones and reanimator effects.
The deck is now retired and I'm making a new esper deck because the new dungeon cards and initiative, as well as the undercity in general, broke the deck. I played 5 times with it since the upgrades and I just kept accidentally going infinite. Every time I got a single initiative card out I had essentially won the game, since Not only do the cards themselves give normally insane benefits for dungeon completion (tomb of horror adventurer), but with one or two cloning effects out I was completing the undercity roughly 2-3 times a turn cycle, and from those completions randomly going infinite on accident. The new dungeon is completely overtuned compared to the old one and has made dungeon decks a completely viable strategy, pushing them into the not quite Cedh sphere but close to it
@@relussmyer I have had a different experience with it. Like I hated how there isn't one new commander that you can run as a dungeon commander.
I'm down with ANY mechanic that adds something objectively distinct to the game.
And as a person who wants them to bring back Bloodrush for Gruul, despite knowing I'll never get that, I feel your pain
Recently saw a chart listing how many unique cards have been added each year from 2012 on. 2020 and 2021 had over 6000, this year is estimated to have over 8000. Compared to 1300 in 2012 or even 4000 in 2019 there's too much product, we get a new set every other month and Commander decks with each
Do you have a link to said chart? I would love to see it.
Edit: these numbers include variants of cards like etched foils and alternate art
@@jacob510 you just said they were unique cards, variants are not unique cards
@@changhyon92 which is why I added that edit after realizing it included variants.
The drafting in this set is some of the best I’ve experienced. Every archetype and deck built has power and interaction. It’s wacky and fun and I recommend it to everyone looking for a unique play experience.
I wholeheartedly agree. It was one of the most fun draft sets I’ve played, ever! My LGS had a precon night as well, again a very fun night and set. But I can also agree with the Prof’s sentiment. The ancient dragons will tank in price when Double Masters 2022 releases.
At the LGS I work at we have 2 magic nights, a edh night and a "Variety" night that is either a draft for the first 2 weeks after a set releases, or more variety edh games like ttt or emperor. This Friday will be the first Friday we haven't done a BG draft since its release, and the only reason is because we wanted to save money for the Quad master release a week later. For comparison, we drafted kami two times, SNC once, and we didnt even draft double feature, so having that much draft enjoyment from a set should speak volumes.
I truly hope this mismanagement does not apply to the sets still to come: Dominaria United and Brothers War. Really looking forward to those sets. I know they are standard legal so they shouldn’t be too pushed (hopefully) but the flavor and lore should be so cool. Really hoping the hit those out of the park.
Have to say that I agree with the Professor on this one. BBG is a solid product but its timing and proximity to Double Masters 2022 didn't do it any favors - which was unfortunate for me since I preordered 2 set boosters and lost money on both....
I also had an extremely disappointing box. So bad that I'm strongly considering never buying a booster box again. Might have had less than $10 in value, the rest just Chaff. It may be singles for me from here on out, and I usually buy at least 1, sometimes 2 set booster boxes per release.
@@jlateralus21 Don't let the worst MTG investment you've ever made scare you from having fun when cracking packs. I got a set box and got basically nothing . But I invited my friends, we talked about the new cards, and had a blast playing around with trash rares but fun ideas. Now I'm encouraged to bring some CLB cards as commanders to my pods for some awesome interactions.
Cracking packs is fun but only justified by the price... unless you share the experience with friends!
@@XoIoRouge I just think that this set was way overpriced for what we got. I've had good boxes and bad boxes over time, but nothing was this bad. I do like cracking packs, but maybe they should've put more packs in each set booster box if they weren't going to put much value in each pack. The combination of less packs per box and less valuable cards in the set overall just made it a big disappointment.
@@jlateralus21 yeah. Cracking packs is fun, but the experience certainly can be soured knowing that you're likely overpaying for the experience.
And just think, if supply lines weren't so sketchy Unfinity would be out right now too. That set is going to be like... half black-border cards.
I have drafted this twice and I am going to draft it s third time on Sunday here, I have been wanting to make a cube for d and d and this set has helped expand the possible cards for it. With everything being so cheap it's a great time.
I am some one who doesn't crack packs haven't since I started in Khans in 2014. I also besides buying singles, will draft things. My pioneer cube is going great. I am also a big d and d nerd. This set has had no problems for me but it's because of how I approach it. I just don't like how my local community outside my friends doesn't want to draft so I am having a hard time playing it more. I love this set but again it's got everything I want more DND flavor and cheap singles and a fun drafting experience. I've won both of my drafts. I'm a man who has bought into the DND dice masters. Drafted it once too.
I am for singleton pauper cube myself and to my surprise I realized even that is a lot of cards up to five players!
The biggest flaw for me with CL2 was the lack of good reprints. Blade of Selves and Kindred Discovery are good cards sure, but they're not as universally good as say Three Visits, Commander's Beacon, Vampiric Tutor, Mana Drain, etc. As exciting as new cards are for commander sets, reprints is where I get a lot of my excitement for.
Yeah and putting commander staples in double masters…
@@calebross8174 all of them
Nature’s lore, Mindstone, Wayfarers bauble, Bramble Sauvergn….
There were a few great reprints
I agree on leaving Dockside out of the set, as I feel it's outside the play environment they're trying to encourage. That said, given the set prime is IP locked, I would have loved to have seen a Mystic Archive slot where you could have reprints within the draft packs. The Sevinne's reclamation and other such building blocks and old precon commanders of decks that are harder to come by.
Labeling it as a commander set was the big mistake
They needed to add a few new dungeons. They had 3 in AFR and that kind of hinted that there would be more. Getting only 1 of them in CL2:BG, and force-fitting a new "have the initiative" ability in order to access it was a missed opportunity. What was so bad about "enter the dungeon" and adding a few more? It would've revitalized interest in AFR and possibly boosted CL2:BG.
They called it commander legends 2…that’s literally it. This set was not a Commander legends set. They also bait and switched their consumers by taking mama drain out. Ever since the walking dead BS I’ve said this company will never get my money again and man they sure are trying their best to keep it that way.
...lol sounds like "never" isn't true if they are *trying*... wouldnt you just say succeeded, or exclude the word trying overall?
Wizards have been asking for this, too many products and splitting the powerful cards people want into a insanely packed release schedule.
You are going to get sets like this becoming hard passes as the perception is they're poor sets with little money to be made.
The fact this got released so close to double masters is just incredibly bad management.
They need to throttle back in 2023.
Would love to go back to just 3 main story sets per year, plus 1 supplemental product each for "Masters", 1 set of Commander pre-cons, special draft (i.e. Battlebond, Conspiracy), and 1 other "special" product like an Un-set or cross-over
@@stryk55 yeah, I hear you, difficult to get hyped up when there's a spoiler season every 4 weeks.
8:06 The Battlebond lands were the best reprints in the set, many were going for $10-20 before this released. But yeah, beyond those and the two you mentioned we had...Wayfarer's Bauble? A very welcome reprint but certainly not something we couldn't see in any standard set.
He also mentioned that Wizards should throw in Arcane Signet and "Boots", which were both in the set at uncommon. Another "Oopsie". Wizards doesn't want to put Sol Ring anywhere in a draftable set for a passable reason, though.
@@quasarkwell4823 To be fair its not always clear which cards are in the actual set and which ones are just in the precons given they have the same set symbol here, it gets confusing. So its very easy to assume that Arcane Signet and the Bewts were in the precons and not in packs, I don't remember if either were in packs for the first Commander Legends or just the precons.
@@themoops4006 I suppose that makes sense. Wizards did put Arcane Signet in Commander Legends one as well, but not the boots.
Yeah, I will at least give them props for including das Boots, I was pleasantly surprised to pull 2 pairs of them, an actually useful and highly playable commander card.
What went wrong with commander legends 2: Battle for Baldur's Gate in 1 sentence; They attached a theme to the commander set, restricting their ability to reprint staple cards players care about while simultaneously hampering new design.
Commander legends worked the first time because you had all sorts of weird cards, returning mechanics, and GOOD reprints. The original partner commanders, Vampiric Tutor, Three Visits, Scroll Rack, Rings of Brighthearth, and freaking MANA DRAIN. You had new cards people could actually care about, the completed battlebond land cycle, Jeska's Will, Sakashima of a Thousand Faces, Jeweled Lotus, most of the 3-color commanders, some of the new partner commanders, and Hullbreacher (while it lasted).
Battle for Baldur's Gate gave us what for new cards? More gates that make other gates less bad? Ok that's great for budget players but I'd argue most commander players probably spend quite a bit, or they proxy the cards they want to play with and I say that as someone who ONLY got the new gates from CL2 to make a gates deck. 9 cards does not an exciting set make for me.
Fingers crossed Commander Legends 3 if we even get that can just EXIST as Commander Legends 3 without having to try to be something else. I'd honestly be happier if it was a 100% reprint product.
Yeah, all the good stuff went to the double masters release. The set design was fun, but got eclipsed by the lack of meaningful reprints.
@@theJmanStriketh The set doesn't necessarily need reprints to be successful - the cards in it just need to be able to justify the price point it is sold at. It can be reprints, or it can be new cards that can rival older cards. The main issue is the lack of anything useful in the long term apart from a few dragons. As a consumer, nobody likes to throw money away, and the eventual EV of a box (in relation to its preorder price) is what defines whether a set is successful or not.
@@Xinhuan02 I agree that it doesn't need reprints to succeed. But pushing 2x2 right after it with a ton of commander reprints is pushing some folk not to consider an otherwise cool set. It's getting lost in the shadow of cards folks are familiar with and know they want/need for their decks.
nope...i disagree....battlebond was not a commander set and they attached a theme to it of a moba style battle arena...and it was fully fucking loaded with commander staples....
It gave new cards to the "gates deck", the "adventure decks" and the "DnD Decks". That's something at least.
Hey Prof! I went with a friend to my LGS as you preach for a draft of this set. I had A LOT of fun, honestly! I really loved my deck, which I can't always say at the pre-release event. So, I think this set is great on flavour and for the draft experience. As a matter of fact, I'm going to draft it tomorrow with a bunch of friends. :)
I want to start out saying, love you Prof and your integrity and forthright attitude is why people come to your channel, as well as your focus on the GAME of magic and not the stock market aspects of it. I bought this set before I saw all the previews. After seeing the previews I thought "Oh well, at least I'll get some standard chaff that I can put in all of my commander decks like lands and artifacts" After opening my boxes and getting 1 arcane signet and 1 command tower and 1 commander land (no sol-ring, no lightning greaves, no other universally playable commander cards), I was wildly disappointed and thinking, is this a commander set? It only reinforced something that the prof says often and honestly I had never really listened to before, "Buy Singles". WOTC has pretty much taken someone who wanted to buy their products and instead made them go to the secondary market to just buy what they want. The gambling aspect of cracking packs isn't even that fun if you know there's not even a possibility of getting half your money back. Now I have a draft box sitting on a shelf just waiting for some time in the future where my friends and I can just play draft because I know opening it is just going to be what it should be, a fun time with friends.
I am convinced the Commander Legends name was used to push orders from FLGS's and that alone. Paul Marketing hosed the set harder than anything about the set itself
I agree
Curse you, Paul Marketing! Will your perfidious crimes ever be avenged?
I wish we lived in a world where game pieces were affordable and a set lived and died on how fun/interesting it was.
Sadly not possible with MTG, WotC and especially Hasbro.
This set is exactly what you're asking and it was a flop. The game pieces are dirt cheap and the draft experience is amazing. That doesn't make it a valuable set.
I had so many reservations about Commander's Legends 2 being locked to the DND universe since it limits the possible reprints.
I also wish that they reprinted the Commander Free Instant cycle and Jeweled Lotus since there is quite literally no other draft set to reprint them in
Funny thing they coulda easily done dnd vers of like dockside and stuff just do the godzilla frame.
@@MeowHoots "Dockside Extortionist" and lot of other reprints wouldn't even need a godzilla frame to fit into a D&D set.
Smothering tithe, dockside extortion, pitiless plunderer, and revel in riches all could've easily been reprinted in this set. Baldur's Gate as a city itself is a plutocracy with a thin veneer of sophistry - people in the setting have few illusions about it.
There was no reason to go full treasure cycle.
It used to be there were six Magic sets a year. You had the four core Standard sets, a reprint set (think Masters) and a draft innovation set (something like Conspiracy). This worked out to a set releasing roughly every two months. That was already a lot of Magic.
Now we get eight per year. Four standard sets (except sometimes we also get five like last year) and four whatever-the-heck-they-want-to-do supplemental products. That's a set every six weeks on average. It also means from set release to the next preview season is like, a month or less. That is simply too much Magic. And its also taking away from what should be great sets. Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty was (at least in my opinion) a best set of all time conversation contender. But already it feels like it came out forever ago. Its only been four months!
I dont mind this, as someone who only buy singles and only play eternal having regular updates is a good thing, of course it's bad for standard players but who cares they're all on mtga now
The advice on making a list of cards I'm planning to get before the set comes out and buying them after has helped save me a lot of money.
It is certainly sad that this set doesn't have 'value' because I imagine this means people are really missing out on the draft experience by not wanting to purchase the set. I've done 3 EDH drafts of this at my FLGS and it's so much fun. Sometimes I think the value proposition of the individual cards can blind players to the value of the play experience itself.
Some people buy products to play with it and some buy product for value. You can't force people to play with the cards if they don't want to. The problem is that if you don't have that second half of customers buying the product just for value, theres not enough people buying it for fun to financially justify the product (which means they are less likely to make more in the future).
If I draft I need the cards to have value, because otherwise I can go play video games and buy reserved list instead.
My experience with card value. The more value in the card, the less fun I have, because the card essentially becomes auto pilot.
Thats my two cents on it
Buy a bunch of cheap singles and do mock drafts. Save 50 bucks and get the same experience.
Sorry for wanting some of my draft cards to be used in decks after drafting….
I was making a Commander legends, D&D AFR cross over cube when this set was announced. Now i am making a cube of mostly this new D&D set and focusing on party , tribals of the party sub-types and voltron. with all the trappings of the conspiracy sets and i am now making commander jumpstarters so each player has access to command tower arcane signet and some other bits and pieces
.
I almost wonder if we aren't going to see this set at some sort of discount chain because I'm not sure how many places they have left to dump excess product when so much is being churned out so quickly.
Huge improvement on unboxing music!
Great vid!
I think you make great points in the video, but I also want to add that I think CLB has a fundamental problem even aside from the context of it's release and set mechanics; CLB has been designed almost entirely around the idea of drafting commander decks.
Others are free to disagree, but to me, a dedicated commander player, the idea of drafting commander is oxymoronic - it misses everything I like about the format, from the singleton nature to the large decks to the high power cards to the carefully constructed synergies and combos to the chance to build around a specific target card and strategy to the opportunity to get creative and dig out obscure old cards that make everyone do a double take and then call a judge. None of that is possible in CLB, so how can CLB expect to appeal to the commander market?
To me when I look at CLB I just see a box of draft chaff and a few pushed rares I'll proxy or buy as singles to put in a real commander deck.
Really enjoyed the voiceover, Prof. It adds some interest as you're opening packs.
As I was going through the set looking for the singles I wanted to buy, I only found a few cards I'd want for EDH. Which isn't exactly great when it's billed as a Commander product. By comparison, I spent a full two days doing the same with the original Commander Legends.
It took me like 5 days to import all the cards I needed for my commander decks to cockatrice from New Capena. It took me like 10 minutes to do the same from CLB... that on itself says a lot
Remember when he used to talk about pauper? I miss that.
Next two episodes are Pauper
All cmd cards are in the new masters set.
Expensive and premium price
I really enjoy drafting Baldur’s Gate. I’ve been drafting it 1-2 times a week since the official release. I’ve found it’s multiple dragon based themes you can build a draft deck around to be a ton of fun along with the other deck themes I’ve played.
"That's Innistrad: Double Feature."
Ha!
Came back to Magic being an adult with a nice job and a quite some spare time, loveld NEO, but I just couldn't keep with the release schedule Wizard is playing. Tank you for another fantastic video, great insight and THANK YOU for putting a name to something I was feeling but couldn't really identify: product fatigue.
What hurts here for me is that Double Masters feels more like a Commander Legends set than CLB, as mentioned. It's not just about money from selling cards, but giving people what they want for Commander in a set that's supposed to be for Commander at large, cards that people should have easier access to.
Our playgroup drafted it last week, and it was a tonne of fun!
Baldur's gate is an AMAZING set to draft with. I've already drafted 5 times and each time it's better than the last! So many crazy commanders to try out and the draft experience is unique every time.
My playgroup has even been able to get newer players into the game due it's flavor and obviously the commander games that follow from draft. I will be picking up as many cheap draft boosters boxes as I can to continue enjoying what in my opinion is an incredibly well designed magic set.
Financially tho, cracking packs that is, is just not it for this set. Please go buy draft boosters and just play magic with these cards. It is one of the best limited experiences ever, especially for commander enthusiasts.
my partner and I did 3 prereleases for the set and even got our commands playgroup in on the fun at our LGS! I had a blast with it and getting a ton of cards that I’ve slotted into my Commander decks or built new decks out of (going on 2-3 new commanders leading decks from this set). I seriously think this set is amazing and full of quality new commanders and useable commander cards, and I think that a lot of people will come to like this set in years to come.
Shame we probably wont get another. I love the flavor and setting, plus backgrounds are a fun mechanic. It just isnt worth it to pay for packs.
I liked the idea of backgrounds. It filled the same color flexibility space as partner and might be useful in regular decks. I think backgrounds had a detrimental effect on the power level of the mono-colored commanders in the set though. When half the power of your CMDR is in an enchantment, it's a little less exciting.
Buy singles.
Furthermore, Verhey said that they didnt reuse Partners because the partner pool is large and made it hard to balance. That's a load of bullshit, they're just lazy and dont want to give us more 4c combos for some fucking reason.
Honestly I understand that. Expanding the pool only endangers bad combos as you have to make sure you don’t break anything with every new pair.
The Dragons that came out this set are amazing! An upgrade to Lathliss with Myrimm, the 5 ancient dragons, and the dragons/background combos!
I was very disappointed by the 2 set boxes I opened. 1 box had 0 dragons and 0 rare lands. The other box 0 dragons and 1 of each of the commander dual lands. Only other cards of value were archangel of thé and hall of the bandit liars off the list. :(
It’s a fun set, but they should have at least upped the rare land pulls if they wanted to keep the commander legends label
I don't have a lot of experience with drafting, but attending the pre launch event was a blast. Yeah maybe the cards I grabbed aren't priced as high as others but the decks we build took us right up to the time limit to determine the winner.
I drafted this set 4 times and I wish my LGS had brought material for 4 times more. The different decks, the new mechanics, the flavor everything is great about it. I do agree that this set didn't need to be called commander legends, because that's what people didn't like about it, they thought it was commander reprints and pull people away from it.
Now, Double Masters 2 is actually one of the best sets in card pool and reprint wise, but it's also the worst thing for MTG, because it's literally saying "If you don't have $500 free after paying everything else, then don't buy me"
100% true. On the other hand, people looking for opportunities will be happy it turns out like that. I have been looking forever to get good amount of old secret lairs at reasonable prices, then guess what? I was able to secure huge deals with people in need of money to get master2022.
I drafted on prerelease weekend and had a great time, I bought two draft boxes to play with my friends and I'm looking forward to getting together to do so! I also built a Miiryim deck with almost all of the cards being from CLB and it's been fun to play and even won several games. I know there aren't many powerhouses at a similar level as a Jeweled Lotus or a Jeska's Will, but I'd say it's good value for commander players, so long as you get the singles or intend to draft.
Waaaaay too many niche legendary creatures in the rare slot. A lot of those should have been cut for reprints and/or more interesting non-legedary cards. And a good chunk of them could have been downshifted to uncommon as well
Bad set is bad
Yeah by trying to please every audience you please them all less.
No, because the draft environment would be ruined by that. It needs loads of legends.
"good chunk of them could have been downshifted to uncommon as well"...this 100% im willing to bet, that modern master 2022 actually has the rares and mythics that were going to go to this set....and they took a bunch of the uncommon "legends" and bumped them up to rare and mythics so they can take the good reprints to that other set.
Hello, commenting as about a week after release I had hosted a draft of CL2 with my local group (had 16 total so 2 boxes). From what I learned after the draft, the mythics in total from both boxes was around 5 total. But. Everyone actually enjoyed drafting it and it didn't seem like anyone had any problems drafting it. There seemed to be enough of every color in the packs that it was only usually the last four cards is where you might hit a couple dead cards that don't fit your deck. The overall view was positive and since the price is dropping way below MSRP, I will most likely be trying to do another draft of this set in the future as while there isn't a lot of value, it is imo (and a couple of the other players I played with) still a good set and helps those who haven't really played commander before to try it out, learn how to draft, and enjoy creating a deck from a limited card pool.
Imagine a game that's fun to play and you play it because it's fun and not because you think your getting money for buying it.....its why I started playing games with my friends
I hear Uno is still pretty cheap. But really, Magic single-handedly invented the collectible card game genre. What do you expect?
I would love to hear you rant or just talk about any subject while you play the booster box game opening packs in the background like in this video, just a plane music with card openings can sometimes get a little boring, loved to hear you talk the first few minutes while opening the pack in this video.
Tin-foil hat time. Nothing went "wrong" with ComLeg 2 Battle for Electric Boogaloo. Everything went exactly according to plan. Wizards deliberate gimped the set by stripping any useful reprints out and moving them to Double Wallet-bang 2. They put the Commander Legends title on the set in order to charge premium prices to squeeze money from the distributors, who then pass that on the game stores. They wanted people to buy into this set with pre-orders in order to drive release date sales. They wanted people to hype the set and drive store engagement to force stores to stock it heavily so it would sell better to distributors, AND be disappointed in the set to that their misery and FOMO would drive them then ALSO invest heavily in Double Masters II: The Quickening.
BUT, with stores and distributors stuck with pallets of Baldur's Gate left they can't sell and can't get rid of, they'll be left feeling burned and NOT be able or willing to get as much Double Masters as they would normally get for such an amazing looking set, which means the low print run that they already planned to do for the set will be justified, boxes will be scarce and prices on singles will stay nice and high to drive the next reprint set box. Why? Because Wizards doesn't care about local game stores anymore, and companies are never satisfied unless they have ALL the MONEY. Not some money, or a bunch of money, or even as much money as possible, ALL the MONEY. Who cares how badly this damages distributors and endangers game stores, who cares how badly this effects players, Wizards is playing to the stockholders with this one, loudly, and it's transparent and disgusting.
You Nailed it!!!! I had a great time opening the packs and explore all the awesome new cards^^ but yeah it is just drowning next to Double Masters... Greetings Jan
This set was extremely flavorful and a blast to draft. Apart from that the set has no $ VALUE $.
(Yes the ancient dragons are worth a bit but that's it.)
@@tbd3058 no sir....they do not....as someone that cracks 4-6 boxes per set...this set has shit for value...unless you mean sentimental value, because it has no monetary value at all...what a disappointment of a set to open.
@@tbd3058 lol ok
Just catching an edit - We go from "Pack #16/18" to #7. Awesome video!
ah yes, Double masters 2022 will be a great set for those lucky enaugh to got their hands on one of those limited boxes before they got scalped
oh, I have a lot to say about THAT too
Not only did they not reprint commander cards in this set, they also reprinted Deadly Dispute. This reprint drove down the price on one of the bigger C/U hits from AFR. This cannibalized the other D&D set as well. Double whammy WOTC! Great work!
Made elminster and tasha decks, amazingly fun commanders but i got them super cheap and ive been saving money to get my 4 preorders of double masters - already spent a ton on of money on myg this year and find my self wanting to spend less and less
I played against a super fun Elminster deck, he's cool.
I’m brand new to MTG. I’ve learned most of what I know from your videos. And I helped create a public FB group so people who play Magic in my area could find each other and have get togethers. Western Mass Magic The Gathering
Naming and schedule. That and sections of the community that examine set only in its monetary value.
And to be fair to Battle for Baldur's Gate: Yes, it has a lack of important reprints, but most people forgt about the Battlebond lands when speaking about this point
I liked the product for the fact that several cards on it are very useful, but you are right, we are overwhelmed with way too many new sets and card, which might cause good cards to be ignored because people will only focus on the 150 top OP cards and will ignore most of the other cards. Something that I see way too many times lately is people buying busters, or getting the price busters on tournaments opened, they pick hardly 1 card per buster and literally, trash the rest of the cards... which really hurts me.
My friend and i pondered that maybe:
Wotc realizes that a recession is likey, so, knowing that there will be months of lowered demand, they opted to reaffirm their loyal player base at the expense of collector money. Collector/investor money is the first to go when spending slows. Player fanbase is just as addicted as scratch off buyers. Seems to me a reasonable action.
7:58-8:38 Baldur's Gate did have fantastic budget reprints though, namely Wayfarer's Bauble. And it did in fact reprint Arcane Signet and Swiftfoot Boots. Some other great reprints include the Battlebond lands, Reflecting Pool, Nature's Lore, Deadly Dispute, Lightning Bolt, Murder, Command Tower, Basilisk Collar, and Bramble Sovereign.
I actually do think this set was a failure. Hot take…but there are some things that make me think it would have flopped even without double masters. 1st point is that there are no “chase” cards in the set. If you look at commander legends 1 there was jeweled lotus, opposition agent, apex devastator and sakashima. All cards that were unique to the set that are really popular and fun. That is not even all the unique good cards in it. Then they went beyond that and had powerful reprints on top of it. A reason for all types of commander players to buy the product. This product missed on both of those metrics so hard and feels like a set that has decent dragon tribal cards and draft chaff. 2nd point is another one on the types of cards, though many casual players may not like it, powerful cards that do crazy things are desired by many people and drive demand in a way that can’t be matched, if you look at double masters, most of the hype comes from the power and this set just doesn’t have it. 3rd point is that they made a new way to have commanders, the backgrounds and none of them are unique and they definitely do not break new ground when it comes to strategies in commander, no commanders here really have a large amount of interest behind them because none of them are that interesting. The partner commanders in that set like sakashima and tevesh szat were very interesting on their own while opening up new ways to play with previously owned cards. 4th point is that wizards seemed a little greedy with this set by putting the label “commander legends” on the box to make players thing it would resemble what happened last time to drumb up interest that might not have existed on D and D ip, and while I want them to make money, I would rather they do it by making a product people genuinely want to buy and sell them like hot cakes instead of making a subpar product. I don’t ever really write about stuff like this in chat but I was super hyped for the crossover of D and D with the commander legends ideal. While I have never played D and D it has a very rich universe and that is something I want to see more of l. I have never been this crushed before and it sucks to see something I would have willingly thrown my money at be such crap.
It's kind of astonishing, when comparing both boxes, how much of CL1's value was on the cards in the actual set, reprints and all, whereas with CL2, so much of the value is in mythics and praying you get a List card or two of value.
MTG players back in 2020: "We want good and cheap cards, Jeweled Lotus is a cash grab, we hate this set!"
*WotC take notes and print a Commander Legends set that is cheap and affordable*
MTG players: "We want good cards that will make boxes a good purchase, the cards in this set are way too cheap, we hate this set!
I play since 2007 and MTG player doesn't know what they want. This will never change.
People are always more vocal about the things they don't like, and much less often speak so vocally in affirmation of a product. Usually those quotes are 2 different groups of people, and are vocal at different points in time.
You're partially right... And if the set was $100 for 36 packs nobody would be complaining. They instead charge a premium by trimming the pack count. I appreciate that there aren't any broken mythics, and I actually love the set. It just isn't a premium product...its a regular product and should be priced as such.
I was happy at least. I had so much fun drafting these boxes. Even used what I pulled to start many new EDH decks.
Nobody is mad that this set is cheap. People are mad that this set isn't worth opening because it doesn't come with cards that the community wants to see reprinted. A commander product isn't gonna sell with just new cards alone. Most people just want to upgrade their decks.
Baulder’s Gate draft is incredibly fun. The set is full of great cards that outside of limited won’t see much, if any, play. But in a draft…! If I had a group of 8 I could regularly play with, I’d stock up on draft boxes, and (maybe) even build a cube of it.
i feel if you cube this you will need to include the first dnd set....this one kind of needs those cards to be really out of this world experience imo
Combining DnD with Magic was a mistake in my opinion. I would have liked to see more magic history incorporated into the set, throwbacks to history and old themes.
Gotta disagree. AFR was fun, especially when you draft it. It felt refreshing with all these unique mechanics.
BG was just poorly implemented because they focused too much on commander
@@vDeadbolt I do agree that it’s a fun set and that there are some really good cards in it. I think it all comes down to perception and timing. Like the professor said, what if they took commander legends out of the title?
Hasbro might have a good idea here.
I think value-priced sets are just what MTG needs. Imagine if this was released as a standard set but with a $75/$85 draft/set booster box price and $10 for a 3 booster draft pack.
Market it as a lower-value set for beginners, kind of like a core set, and I think people would have been fine with it.
i drafted it at the prerelease in my lgs and i had a ton of fun. the cards in the set are not expensiv? excelent, that means i can buy them cheap and create a Set-cube with them! i love this set to play!!
not sure if it says more about me or the set that the thing I was most excited for in this set was gate cards
This set has a lot of really fun cards - the backgrounds are such an interesting way to get around the issue of partners while still maintaining a similar feel with a unique twist (and the color limitations of the cards is also welcome).
I agree that the set was mislabeled and it really just doesn't feel like a 'premium' product despite the increase in pricing. This is more egregious because of the siphoning off of EDH reprints into other products (more premium than premium, I guess) along with the reported collation issues where the mythic dragons are just appearing less than the other mythic cards and some boxes are filled with BBD lands while others don't have any at all - and none of this gets into things like The List which was such a homerun in SNC and such a letdown here.
These boxes would be good with 36 packs at normal draft booster box prices and I might even pick up some if they drop a bit, as they stand this set is just plainly overpriced for what it delivers...
It really says a lot about this product that I was only interested in new land art and the reprints of the gems
I drafted this set, commited to my colours way too late, had to have about 30 lands in my dec because of that and still it was a super fun draft and can't wait to draft it again!
Just got back from commandfestphilly and had tons of fun with the set, doing one draft and one sealed event with it (and beating Gavin Verhey in the latter). I saw a lot of excitement for the set, but I agree, moreso in playing in the sealed environment, rather than for any sort of chase cards. Heck, I got a better return on an AFR collector booster than a whole CLB box (thanks to borderless old gnawbones).
Interesting post mortem on the set, Prof. I focused on singles with Baldur's gate, electing to pick up a draft box after the price fall. This continues the trend of flavorful sets, with no supporting value reprints, will inevitably collapse in price. It's like a Mall with no bankable anchor stores: a series of small boutiques that can't amount to the value of a bigger store.
When is the next shuffle up and play? Very excited to see two of my favourite magic players playing one of my favourite formats 😊
Is that an Adeliz the Cinder Wind playmat? I love it!
18:05 that foil Opal Palace looks gorgeous
I agree with your points. There should not have been set boosters at all (or at least the rare slot should have been guaranteed non-legendary like the draft boosters). I have drafted it and it was such a fun experience! The initiative mechanic was very good.
Super agree, I honestly forgot that Baldurs Gate was supposedly a sequel to Commande Legends. Cuz it really feels more like a Commander-only sequel to the D&D set, almost like the Commander precons that come alongside the Standard sets, but as a full set instead of just precons. And the name Double Masters 2 just confuses me. What's double about it again? Cuz it really is just Commander Masters, or Reprint Masters. WotC really needs to name things better and space them out more.
After playing Baldur's Gate 3 I want to start getting into Magic The Gathering by getting a Battle for Baldur's Gate set or draft booster box. I don't have anyone to actually play the game with but I enjoyed the online version, so I would mostly be buying just to collect which I have been told set boosters are better for, I am wondering if this is a place worth starting at to see if I enjoy collecting them. I don't plan on selling the cards I get, only to eventually play one day. Want to know where other people recommend starting.
I had a lot of fun playing sealed with a friend for her birthday. We're both D&D players and we loved CLegends 1. Still very disappointed by the reprint quality and Double Masters 2022 is really rubbing salt in the wound there. It feels like I'm being dared to drop money on double masters after I just bot a draft box of the set immediately preceding it.
But I still very much enjoyed drafting it and hey, I gotta go make a deck for that Boros Myriad commander because that seems really fun!
I can't wait for the 4 Pack Double Masters 2022 Collector's Booster Box game!!! That will be a crazy long video!!
As someone who played DnD long before Magic, and enjoys both draft and EDH, this set was amazing. I am going to pick up a draft box to do a couple drafts with my friends, and then turn that pool with my left over AFR cards from pre-releases and make a DnD Commander Cube!
That jab at innistrad double feature at the end was on point.
I drafted this, Time Spiral, and CL1 with 3 friends this past weekend, and we had the most fun with CL2. Sure, maybe not a ton of value cards, but the gameplay was great, and the Backgrounds and Undercity/Initiative were awesome mechanics.
I think you're spot on with why the product suffered. My play group and I really like drafting this set, but we're also Baldur's Gate / D&D fans so It kind of feels like it's for us.
Looking forward to your price point review of double masters 2022.
Pretty Agree with the Prof ! I draft it and it was not really fun to play. I expected more… but with double master coming, is not make sense 🤷🏻♂️
The pre-release of this set was the first time I actually liked playing Commander, so I'd say it was great. The pre-cons are also awesome, and my long-dreamed-of horrors deck just fell from the sky into my hands
I was waiting around for payday, and going to pick up a draft box; have some fun with my playgroup, as we enjoyed Commander Legends and the first D&D set.
But then spoilers for Double Masters soon followed and it was clear, I should actually buy a box of that instead, and just buy the few (cheap) singles from Baldur's Gate I'm after
I really do like a lot of the cards in this set, and I love they brought back Adventure! It was also a great draft experience. I also agree that they missed the ball on Commander reprints while simultaneously missing the mark, and I might be in the minority on this one, on the flavor they had with the alt art module lands...wouldn't have to be exactly the module treatment again but maybe a miniature stand in for the art, or a character sheet derived alt art concept.... something to tie it directly back to the pencil and paper game the way the module treatment did.