The Collapse of The Entry Level Road Bike Market
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2024
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Realistically what do you think the solutions is to the entry level bike scene, without making the bikes $200 dollars, The allez bike use to be such a staple in our store and also the entry level tarmacs and Roubaix's but for some reason right now there is not even a conversation on entry level bikes.
Every entry level buyer bought the last years and those people do not buy every year…
12001500 bike with Tiagra, cheap wheels
The industry can't survive with cheapest bikes at 2k+
Let them eat cake
I don't really see how independent stores are going to compete going forward, entry level is the first to go but mid tier will likely disappear next and maybe high end will end up being exclusive and boutique like the Pinarello stores, and a few high end 'agents' who do fittings for custom.
You can't compete against online pricing or the buying power of Decathlon and very limited number of large chains. I don't know the US stores, but for the UK it will be Decathlon and Halfords, that's where the entry level bikes will be for bricks & mortar stores, the rest will be online. A few brand like Canyon will probably open up more 'experience centres' but you'll still be ordering online, and the local bike shop still won't be able compete on price.
There is a lot of positivity around Decathlon's Triban bike that is ~£800 (probably around $800 US.) They have sold it recently with 105, but I think it's now Microshift, which is still pretty good at that price. Does the US have anything similar? something from CostCo maybe? I just don't know what else I would suggest for anyone in the UK, the answer is always going to be Decathlon or find something second hand.
Shimano CUES for drop bars is coming soon, do they start releasing the drop bar shifters early in 2024? That might give a bit of a boost to the bikes at the entry level, but it will only be a small boost because everyone is still being crushed by the cost of living crisis.
I think independent bike shop business owners need to think hard about pivoting away from selling bikes asap, move the business wholly toward servicing, fitting and training. @Mapdec has the right idea. Going mid - high end, and then high end only might be a way forward in the short to medium term.
In EU markets I'd say those kind of bike sales are cornered by Decathlon with their stellar offerings at low price points around & under 1K €. Considering big brands aren't willing to put out good bikes at those prices amateurs are not likely to go to dedicated bike stores to spend there.
They're more likely to be picking up a starter bike & gear at a Decathlon store while shopping with their partner or kids.
The entry level road bike market is buying a $3000 bike used from someone on Facebook marketplace for $900 when the previous owner buys a $7500 new bike.
I spent £680 on my Giant Contend SL2 in 2017. Alloy frame carbon fork and seat post. Tiagra groupset. Still going strong with nearly 50,000 kms on it. Lifetime frame warranty 😊
im trying to do the same with a giant revolt 1 in 2023 with grx 400 and tiagra fd. but have to pay 100$ more than a giant contend sl2 from 2017. hopefully it still goes strong 5 yrs from now
@@tobznoobs Giant are good bikes. I have needed to replace the bottom bracket two times though and have changed the wheels because my rims got worn out on the long mountain descents. But obviously things will wear out if you cycle a lot!
680 nowadays barely gets you a claris, freakin barely 🥲💀
For me, it has always been simple: I'd rather buy a used, older model that's above mid-range or top-tier, than something new for the same price or slightly cheaper. That's why my second bike was an old Venge Pro and my third, a Pinarello, now I buy new, but only because I’m old and have money.
Never understood the group set thing, I currently have bicycles with 800 series GRX down to Claris and they all have worked flawlessly. I personally think that cycling kind of needs to lose it's snobbery!
Owning an expensive gear in any hobby kind of compensates for lack of efforts. Maybe I'm too harsh in my opinion.....
For those that just want to ride on the weekend it doesn't really matter, however for enthusiasts or those who put some decent miles in will make a huge difference in all aspects. It's not just a few extra cogs in the back and some weight savings, there are major things like effective gears, the difference in percieved effort between two consecutive gears, etc. All these things get better with each higher tier of group set. So if you are somewhat serious about riding you should read about it.
@@event4216 You're not. 😄 Started cycling with a rubbish 13kg 300€ new aluminum monster from Amazon, Shimano Tourney 2x7, couldn't push up the entire 300m of elevation on my local route, had to walk up there, got an old carbon bike from the early 2000's with 3x10 Ultegra, got up there for the first time, now I got like a five year old carbon bike with 2x11 Ultegra setup and it's actually fun to climb up there for the first time. 😂 So yeah, expensive gear makes up a little bit for lack of power, but it also makes the whole experience a lot nicer. If you look for used gear though, you can save a lot and get a mid range or even high end bike for the same amount of a new entry level bike, if you can accept a few scratches here and there and do your own maintenance...
@@event4216 no, you're right.. look at people on the green runs at exclusive ski resorts, sporting $2000 skis.. it's the same. Everyone's sold the same story.. you'll be faster, stronger and gooder if you have Olympic level gear..
I ride a $250 Walmart Ozark trail bike that gets confused with a $2k bike . Check it out Ozark trail 700c
Bring the CAAD10-12 back. Use more rim brakes and lightweight aluminum at the entry level points. These bikes were awesome.
Exactly!!!
Van Rysel EDR AF 105
FULL R7000 105 Groupset
Fulcrum 6 Wheelset
8.8 kg $1,199.00
That's the entry level benchmark.
@@gk5891 YES.
I think you nailed it when you mentioned the used bike market. That’s where entry level buyers are going for “cheap” bikes right now. They’re flooded with them. It’s funny though, I can remember having customers come in and ask what’s the cheapest bike you have? Back then, and where I was located, that meant a mountain bike. We sold the Specialized Hardrock for $289 and people would gasp in horror. Then I would tell them my shoes cost more than that and they’d laugh like I was kidding. Good memories.
Pros closet is a scam, I hope they aren’t going there
@@whunderwhoiam2489new people likely won’t go there. They are more likely to buy something from Walmart/amazon.
@@whunderwhoiam2489 Local used market is where most beginners shop.
Why do you hate Pros Closet, I bought a used Scott Foil team addition, bike new was 8k, bought for 3k. The bike had dura ace and 404 firecrest Zipps. I know if I crash a bike thats my first look is Pros Closet for replacment.
@@whunderwhoiam2489 I don’t know if I’d call them a scam? They’re business people doing business in a capitalistic way. Because America. 🇺🇸
The push to disc and e-sets is insane. Literally nobody new is gonna need either.
Fair, but having electronic shifting is a WHOLE LOT more reasonable than having headset-routed cables and housing on a bike with Sora components
Disk brakes aren't adding much to the price of bikes. They still make a lot of no electronic shifting bikes.
Agreed. I want rim brakes. I have always had rim brakes and never had a an issue with them so why do I need hydraulic brakes?
@@theCranesUS You can buy rim brake bikes. A lot of folks are wanting to buy disc brake bikes, so they offer those too.
If you don’t sell what the customers want you have problems as a business.
Decathlon rc120 disk with microshift r9 is where I think entry level is @ £499 and 11kg
$1200 to dip a toe in the water is madness
Decathlon doing great with the entry level road bikes
@@hillariat2147 I agree 💯
Agreed. Twelve hundred dollars for an "entry level" road bike is absurd.
@@johnd.obrien6838 Agreed. Dropping $1200 for something that you don't know if you will like or not is a bit much. Even if they end up loving biking, most people are only going to be casual with it. They will ride 5 miles here, 15 miles there, etc. Not really taking it serious enough to justify a $1200 purchase. They might upgrade some components down the line, but no need to drop major dollars up front.
You can find em under 300$ used where im from
People need to stop buying pro bikes. They are meant for professionals and are usually sponsored to the rider. The industry is creating its own downfall. What happened to bikes like the Giant Defy, Specialized Allez and the Cannondale Cadd series. They used to come in with 105 and under £1200 and the Ultegra would be around £1500.
Different market. The bike companies are catering to them because they can sell one 16k bike instead of 32 $500 bikes. It’s just a totally different business to what it was 20 years ago
There are plenty of companies filling in that gap in the market that those companies are abandoning. Look at Decathlon, Velo Orange, Microshift, and many other up and coming Chinese brands.
As Mr. Burns would say, let the fools have their ten thousand dollar carbon bikes :)
Everyone loves to hate on the retro grouch crowd, but there is no denying the older technology with rim brakes was cheaper. 10 speed Tiagra with rim brakes. 11 speed 105 with rim brakes. It will bring the price down to where it needs to be.
thier actually better even at the same price, overall including the "hassle factor"
I’m getting into road biking and I’m honestly shocked at the snobbery and superiority complex a lot of these road bikers have, it’s just a big pissing contest… I only ride alone now.
Group rides are a nightmare.
ex-olympian here, ride for your fun, on a bike you dont worry about getting stolen, gentle on cardio...simple
Sure you aren't just Jungian reflecting your insecurity and fear of athletic inadequacy onto them?
I ride slow and steady and usually alone nowadays. But back in the day when I was racing we were very competitive and everyone trying to be faster than the others. That's just focus, not snobbery.
@@PRH123 here in california , ya just shit medium rookie riders on $8000 bikes!! 90% snobs on bikes more than $ 500
My take is the gravel bike has replaced the entry and midrange road bike. I also think most of the industry has not figured out that most people don’t care about road racing.
Preach! Unfortunately, roads don't get closed for us when we ride like they do for grand tour riders - much more comfortable to find gravel roads with less traffic. Pretty hard to sell a $1,000+ bike that can't even go on the most enjoyable roads/paths to ride. THAT'S the entry level market.
i think you're 100% correct. if i wasn't sure i would enjoy road cycling, i'd opt for the more versatile entry level gravel bike. if i then figure out that i did prefer road cycling, i'd jump in at the mid/high-tier road bike.
@@whoispurplegoo Or you go for a mid to high end gravel bike with a few wheel sets. I have been riding for close to 40 years. I spend years working in bike shops when I was in my 20s. I raced mountain and road for years. I have trained with high level armatures and a few pros over the years. And gravel bikes have made me just give up on having a road bike. Gravel bikes are just more versatile. It’s way more fun to just be able to ride any thing I want on one bike.
@@whoispurplegoo I don't get gravel bikes. Get a hardtail MTB instead. That's versatility. Can ride road, dirt, trails, bike pack and commute. It's a do all. You could even put on drop bars on an MTB.
Crappy road conditions in a lot of areas make bikes with larger tire clearance more appealing also. But a lot of the all-round road bikes can take 35-38mm tires now. So they become just as useful in many applications.
Its simple. The people who can only afford a 2k bike are struggling to afford rent and food.
Bought an in brand new condition Sworks SL6 rimbrake with Ultegra DI2 with hand build carbon rims for 2000 euro a few months ago who "upgraded" to a SL7 disc.
I think the disc brake bikes + all cables fully internally routed opened the door to this insane raise in prices as disc groupsets were on average more expensive.
Combine that with the corona pandemic and boom there you go.
Just a few years back you were having a superbike like an tcr or supersix with Ultegra for around 3k.
Now on channels like this one, those bikes are "bad" because they have rimbrakes yet they complain about the prices 😂
Exactly
You can get an entry level road bike from Specialized for 1200 usd. I think even trek as an entry level road bike for 800 with rim brakes. People need to realize you don’t need to spend 2 or 4K to have an amazing bike. The biggest upgrade for most people will always be their body and fitness, not the bike.
@@Gamebreaker08 the cheaper you go, the less likely people are to have disposable income
Totally wrong. It is not 'afford', it is willing to pay. I drive a Prosche, I can AFFORD a SL8. I am just not willing to pay a bike more than my Kawasaki. It is a 'bike' for God's sake. No need to pay over 2K if you are not a professional.
Personally as a beginner $1000-2000 dollar is alot of money. Spending $2000+ and I'm still getting Tiagra only (historically a low end groupset) and not even the mid tier groupset 105 is abit too much to swallow. Plus you are only getting a 10 speed, like you said you can start imagining more upgrades again in the future which adds to the $2000+ you are spending
Beginner of what?
A 7 or 8 speed group for that kind of money? Are you kidding? Have disc brakes contributed to that? I say bring back the rim brakes if it will get the price back to what people can pay. Or, maybe people just quit buying bikes and we'll see how the industry likes that. Cycling isn't suppose to be something only the rich can do. That $1200 Specialized seems like a POS bike. What is up with that angled bridge on the seatstays? Looks like a drunk man made that frame. 🤣105 is the lowest tier I would consider and I've always had that mindset. If I was looking to get my kid a bike today I would be on the Chinese websites because Specialized and TREK are way out of touch with what people can afford and we shouldn't have to settle for the cheap crap just to get an affordable price.
When I got into cycling in 2020 I purchased a 10 speed disc brake bike for 1000€.
I checked again this year and for that price you now get 8 speed bikes. A bit hard to swallow when you hear about trickle down technology
People need to stop judging and people need to stop giving a f#%k as to what people think about what you have. Buy what you like and can afford and enjoy yourself. If anyone has anything negative to say just walk away and ignore them you don’t need a person like that in your life
20 odd years ago, for good (or bad), there was Lance Armstrong show every July. TdF stages (lasting 3 hours) would re-cycle on TV 2-3 times a day. At times, the TdF day's stage was the lead story on ESPN. This was a marketing bonanza for the bicycle industry and the average Joe wanted to be part of it. The economy was good and Dura-Ace/Utegra carbonTreks/Specialized were flying off the store racks. Heck, my good friend who's main hobby was bass fishing even bought a higher end Specialized at the time - along with the clothing and clipless pedals, etc.
Today, no such story. Even with Sepp Kuss' historic Vuelta win, you would have been hard pressed to find the race on TV. I also think that the people who bought those Treks/Specialized 20 years ago realize that those bikes are solid functional machines that still suit their needs today - there's no reason for them to spend $8000-$10000 just for marginal new technology. If all I'm doing are social 40 mile group ride on the weekends, do I really need today's disc brakes, e-shifters, or exotic carbon frames ? probably not.
You are absolutely right! I brought my Allez in 2003! The only reason I brought a new Bike is because my Allez has a crack in the head tube
I'm afraid buyer is king now. the Bike companies had it good during pandemic. Realistically Pre pandemic High-end were 6-7 grand acceptable for what you got however greed has taken over and the companies attitude across all suppliers have to take a reality check.
The market is flooded with good used bikes. As an example I just bought an eighties Holdsworth. Hand made in England 531 frame like new for $200. The difference between a good older bike and a modern bike for a beginner is small. But 200 vs >1000 is a big difference.
Started riding in September of this year coming off a running injury. I was that guy "I only need something to get the job done". Got a Trek Domane AL 3 disc for 1500. Now im doing 180-200 mile weeks. It comes with Shimano Sora (9 speed). Knowing what I know now I would've spent the extra cash to get the AL5 with Shimano 105. 2K would be my absolute limit with my terrible paying job
Same here - I do about the same mileage and also came to cycling from running a year and a half ago - have gone from an Allez to a Domane 4 to currently a Canyon Endurace 7 with 105. I can’t imagine going back to Sora.
You can always slap a 105 11 speed groupset on your bike.
Both the Domane AL5 and the Canyon Endirance CF7 look nice!
@@mbv13 Sora is great. I kick the ass of guys on their 5$k-10$k bikes with my $500 Sora bike from Decathlon. I love it! Owning 2 cassettes for different riding terrains makes it even more competent (11-34 for climing, 11-28 for flatter terrain)
Damn, just got that bike for 999
E-bikes are killing entry road bike sales. I have had people come up to me and say they really like my bike (Trek Domane AL 5). Then they ask what does a bike like that cost, and I say $2k, and they say are you freaking kidding me. I later see the same people riding an e-bike. These new riders who would never consider spending $2k on a road bike, will drop $4k on an e-bike like it's nothing.
yea this is true as well, ebike online are crazy cheap and for sure steer people away and lead them to that crap ebike
You are right, imagine novice bikers, a family couple, not in the best shape, $2K to spend per bike when Aventon has those pretty fancy electric ones for $1000 with 60 miles of range, wow, honey, we can have two for the price of one and ride for whole day!
The push to aero everything, disk brakes, and electronic groupsets have killed cycling for a lot of folks.
hahaha yes but also I kind of like where bieks are right nwo they look way better and honestly the brakes and shifting just work better too, once it is set there is not adjsuting
Luis Scott, a RUclips presenter not far from you there in Florida, recently presented a meaningful monologue on bike shaming and how it shouldn't be. And I agree, that is so antithetical to what devoted cyclists like us are trying to do and that is to cheer anyone who is riding, just ride well and safely and I cheer it all as I did recently here in town when a few teens were riding long wheelies on their SE bikes on perfect supermarket asphalt on a busy day and they were expertly weaving around cars and customers and having a grand time showing off their skills to the world. And huge props to Specialized on that 12-hundred-dollar bike, it looks great, well done. And I can't see knocking the companies for price hikes of a few hundred dollars and even the Specialized Allez Sprint at three grand is fair given that it is recognized as the best crit bike and a company has to make some money for their good work and that's good work, that bike. And I could say more but for now, just thanks, GC, for doing this vid and explaining the situation. And a bit more about my Specialized project, the 26" smallish compact-steel-frame Rockhopper Ultra which I am building up with modern wheels and components for gravel with a nod to BMX and actual '90s mountain bikes, I have having a lot of fun considering my parts options and that's half the fun of cycling, souping up an old bike or any bike. And I'll be doing it in conjunction with my favorite local bike shop, which I happily support and besides, I'm buying just the parts, not the tools, too. He's got those and like you, GC, i applaud his role as a local cycling luminary with the chops to stand at the center of the local scene and to build up bikes and e-bikes all day every day. 😀.
Well said.
For me personally, I would like to see manufacturers at the very least offer all color/paint schemes across all price tiers that share the same frame. As a new buyer, before you see the group set or the wheels, or anything else, that is what speaks to you. If you don't see your bike in the garage and think, my bike looks awesome and I want to go for a ride as soon as possible then its that much harder to convince someone. I think a new buyer would be more willing to listen to someone telling them that Tiagra as a great option AND you can get the bike in the exact same color as this other bike you were eye'ing with 105/ultegra. It doesn't have to be a full custom platform like Trek ProjectOne, but at the very least, make the colorway of the bike a non-issue. When starting out, you can feel pretty self conscious riding around town in full lycra ... at the very least you want to do it on a bike that you think looks awesome.
Yes!
Newbies can't 'see' a difference between Ultegra and Tiagra and they have no experience using them to be able to comprehend the performance and weight.
I remember when I just started cycling- a Sora groupset looked as amazing as SRAM Force. And for most people they will function just as well as each other.
If anything, it's better to get a cheap groupset for a few years and get used to learning how to operate it and adjust t correctly without risking damaging it.
And as you said, what stands out to most people is the colour. I would choose a Tiagra or Apex equipped bike in my favourite colours that I thought looked amazing over a Dura-Ace or Red equipped bike that I thought was drab, dull, or ugly in its paint scheme. At least, I would have done so if the prices were the same back when It as just starting.
Groupset names and levels don't mean anything to you until you learn what it's like to cycle and the functionality of them in the hierarchy. Buying a entry level bike should be about getting something that's easy to use, simple, reliable, cheap to repair and that you like to be seen using and like to use, over world tour competitive differences in weight and shifting!
A specialized Allez, with a 8speed Shimano Claris and mechanical disc, for $1200 is an absolute ripoff !
Unless the bike manufacturers (not just specialized, but all manufacturers) find a way of getting these prices down, I feel the entry level bike sales are not going to go up.
It's simple, someone who wants to start cycling has sticker shock when they see the price of bikes. My first road bike was a Trek 1000 for 700 with pedals in 2006. I just gave the bike to a friend to help jump start their fitness journey.
£1300 for claris and road bikes that weigh almost 12kg. Over priced and over weight... No ones paying for that to only spend another $500 to upgrade.
Used market is really hot now. For a few hundred quid you can get a superbike that some dentist bought during COVID that is lighter than new models
Nothing wrong with rim brakes, 6 speed approx, and nice steel frame and downtube shifters. As second hand pickups, these can be a great entry point to cycling. I still race Masters crits on such a bike. Develop the passion before considering laying down big bucks. Beautifully made components from decades ago can still be picked up for very little cash and classic steel bikes built for much less than an entry level bike. PLUS, you will always get compliments on your beautiful classic bike which you won't get on a carbon bike in any price range. Compliments like this also contribute to the passion and desire to ride. Don't get suckered into the price rise merry-go-round.
Allez sport rim brakes with sora was my first road bike. this past month upgraded to a tcr with 105 di2 and carbon wheels...great bike...but it made me realize how much value an entry level bike holds. That allez was amazing.
I've got newer bikes but upgraded my 2009 Allez and still ride it all the time and it's crazy fast, obviously built around athletes, my newer bikes are fun too but obviously built around comfy comsumers
That Allez sport rim brakes is also my first road bike which I bought used. I like that bike but would like to upgrade to something more modern preferably carbon with Ultegra but no electronic shifting. Personally, I think Specialized are sharp looking bikes but their prices are outrageous.
Agree I bought Allez Sport 2012(demo bike for £500!) added zipp60 wheelset what a great bike it was ! , then 2018 upgraded to Giant Propel
my allez elite dsw from 2015 comes with tiagra and i think was entry level specs of the time, I upgraded to ultegra 6700, zonda wheels, narrow handlebar, some carbon parts...the result is amazing, fast, sharp handling and pretty light at 7,5 kg
@IowaNinersFan I have an 2003! Allez with a full 105 group set, I Added carbon wheels and I'm telling you on flat ground it is a rocket! BUT it has crack in the head tube so I brought a Trek Emonda it is carbon with Ultegra group set, it's a very good bike and I like it However it's not as much fun as my Old Allez was. Oh. RAIDER NATION!
Good stuff much appreciated. Great looking shop. It really shows pride of ownership. Cheers and Happy New Year.
Thank you very much happy new year!!!
Lots of good bikes out there to buy and ride in the aftermarket. I ride the heck out of my Trek 820 that I bought for 100 bucks on marketplace. I'm a mechanic by trade so I just kept upgrading and servicing the bike until I felt it was where I wanted it. I'm definitely the bicycle rider type, I love the sport for the adventure and fitness of and if Tour DE' France riders trust rim brakes while descending those mountains then I trust them too. Bicycles follow the same rule as cars, you will never sell it for what you bought it for and honestly what would you with a carbon fiber bike after a frame crack and the bike is out of warranty. Aluminum and steel bikes are tanks and the vintage high end ones are beautiful to look at.
yea makes sense
When I started my adventure with road bikes in 2009 ,my first road bike which i bought was Cube with Tiagra for £750 and to be honest in my head that was already very expensive ...as a new in to road cycling need to spend another £700+ for cycling kits/shoes/pedals/gps/different saddle/ other acc , and now need spend around £2000 for bike plus other stuff .... no wonder people dont buying
I literally, literally could have written this word-for-word
Those people are all buying e-scooters or e-mtb’s now, at least here in the UK. So cycling loses all of those people who could have fallen in love with the sport and kept getting more and more expensive bikes. In the last twenty years I’ve seen club rides shrink and shrink, despite what we were told about then sport growing. Even cycling in general - the critical mass rides were huge 10-15 years ago. Now they’re either dead or cancelled. There’s simply no way into road cycling now. Nobody is spending that much on an entry level anything, and the used market is good if you know what you’re looking for, but it’s not easy for a beginner to know what’s what. Twenty years ago that’s how a lot of us got into cycling, an entry level road bike for getting around town, then loving it. If it was now and I needed something for local transport, I’d probably get a scooter
$2k is more bike than a beginner needs and $12k is more than local fast guy needs. With that said bike prices and manufacturers have lost their freaking minds.
my toyota car at auction was $800 in 2019....so ya ....
I'm hanging around for another 5 years to pick a high end covid bike with 200 miles on it from markplace for $400
happening now mar 2024, picked up a $2000 carbon bike for $175😳😳
Cycling is not just a sport. It is a lifestyle, it is a culture. For a beginner who has no clue and has not adopted the concept yet, a Walmart bicycle which is much cheaper will just do fine and they rarely feel the need to spend +1k. Unless they have a biker friend who pushes them to.
But the risk is after few rides that bicycle is left out in garage or backyard to rust which happens quite often with beginners. Thats why I don’t push them for +1k bikes anymore until they develop the passion and want to upgrade their cheap bikes.
It's hard to say. If they're cable pull disc and low level drivetrain, would most prefer quality rim brakes and a better drivetrain?
a serious biker says ya....newbee?
I;d love to see Shimano tiagra be retained as a Classic 10 speed groupset. I returned to cycling after a very long break between my teenage years and my 30's, when I came back to cycling I bought a Giant Defy with Tiagra for about £700, it had rim brakes and everything was reassuringly familiar, with the added enjoyment of indexed gear shifting, I really enjoyed that bike. But some of the newer tech is really expensive and not very technically friendly to anyone who doesn't have a friendly local bike shop to take care of things, if you don't have that then you're left in the dark with complicated internal cable routing and hydraulic brake hoses with no effort from the bike industry to simplify this or eliminate this nightmare for people who won't be able to deal with it when it fails.
What time is it here? 5am? You’re wearing SRAM pajamas. Do you sleep above your shop?
The Allez is a sick easily upgradable future proof rig, that can compete with all 5k plus challengers, and truth be told probably a bit faster and more stable on descents then the carbon SL aero blah blah blahs, you can easily make them super fast for relatively cheap, slap on some deep dish 80s, go a size down, slap on a lighter fork and slam that stem 🔥
I have a 2018 Allez, upgraded all components to Ultegra Mech, and rim brakes, carbon 50mm wheels and Zipp carbon cockpit, it's a beast, love it more than my Giant TCR!
Editor can you make the price of carbon bikes relative to the level of engineering present in them. Re; look at a YZF450 engine or frame before you answer!
We have had one bike store close and they were our Specialized dealer. Trek purchased another store that used to sale several different brands. We are now down to two locally owned bike stores in a city of 300,000 people. The Specialized dealer was poorly managed during the pandemic. Now if I want to look at a Specialized bikes and stuff I have to travel 65 miles.
You mention the effect of the pandemic - everyone who wanted a bike has purchased one in the past 3 years. Here's my opinion (based on no data, just based on observation) - high-end bikes have a higher "turnover" rate than low-end bikes. People with a 2020 high-end bike are eyeing the latest upgrade - fast wheels, a new SL8, etc... (on my local used bike market, I am amused to see so many 2022 Dura Ace/Red AXS bikes for sale)
You don't see this gear-lust with entry level bike owners. The turnover rate is a lot lower, and the bikes stick with their owners for a much longer time. So combined with the pandemic effect, the market for entry level bikes seems virtually non-existent.
Your opinion was right on point. I would buy at $2000 2500 for a Carbon bike w/105. At that price range you could upgrade your wheels to a set carbon wheels and be done.
Just got a used 2021 Allez Elite (with about 1000 miles on it ) for $700. Trued wheels, adjusted brakes and derailleurs and it is good to go. Love the bike. Very glad it has 105 components and I like the Axis rim brakes.
My first bike was alloy with Sora, it still works great and I dropped people with bikes 5x the cost. Worry about your strength and not your bike’s price tag
yea and alot of those entry level groups work very well as long as adjusted right by the right professional
LOL. It's true. Due to a spine injury I had to replace my agressively positioned TCR and wound up with a used 2013 Defy with Tiagra 4600 10-speed with fully external shifter cabling. I kept up in my usual group rides on this 10 year old setup with people with the absolute latest S-Works bikes.
@@GCPerformance18 It doesn't take a professional to setup any Tiagra or Sora groupset. Backyard mechanics can easily to do it. It's the knowledge that's important.
In my 50 years of cycling in the UK I’ve seen cycling go from being a working class niche gritty sport to just a new version of golf where new bikes, supporting your children into cycling and moving from amateur to elite require either total self sacrifice, an elite job or rich parents. Energy profiteering, food profiteering, out of control rents and housing mean most people having to prioritise the cost of living crisis. As such people who bought a 1K 2K road bike during the pandemic will 1) Never replace it 2) will never upgrade to a 3/4k bike and 3) will probably take up running . You can buy a good car for the price of a top end road/ mountain bike.
the 1.5k canyon bike comes with 105 tho.
My local bike shop is shut down , due to lack of stock and online competition, a lot was down to low price entry level bikes , worst thing was , I was the mechanic and salesman 😂
11 speed rim brake "super bikes" are at give away prices so hard to go past
Another great video🎉
Has this part of the market moved to gravel bikes? One bike for multiple applications.
Super hard narrow tyres are not the easiest entry to cycling if you are overweight. Gravel frames and forks offer the option to have narrow or wide tyres.
Wanna ride in dirt roads? Good luck with 25mm slicks at 8 bars of pressure. Doesn’t even have to be dirt road, because asphalt in many places is in so poor condition that your hands are shot after 30 minutes.
@@FinnProp You're right but that's exactly what I did with the road bike I bought in 2014. I talked to the bike mechanic to put an Schwalbe Marathon 25mm and a 12-30 cassette and that worked quite well, even on unpaved roads.
Of course wider tires on a gravel bike are more suitable for that, especially 650B 47mm :-)
50 year old, a little out of shape, would like to get back on the saddle and do some miles, both on the local cycle path in summer (which is a decent rural one on an old train line) and also hooked up to an indoor Zwift trainer now in winter (too much snow to peddle out). Used to cycle in teens and 20's. Just needs something basic that allows me to get some miles in and some fitness back, maybe help me shed 14lbs / 7kg of weight over a few months. I'm low income, in a fairly poor country, with a very limited used bike market. Been around the local bike shops, looked online, and my God, the prices are just nuts. Even some of the low end models are 2k+. I really was expecting to walk out with something that put a smile on my face for a few hundred, maybe 500-600 tops if it had some nice stuff on it. I know now how naive that is. But I just don't have the cash to be laying out the kind of money they want, and even if I did I'd be unhappy at being fleeced. Entry level bikes really shouldn't be that much. If there's no easy on ramp for the sport, it's going to suffer.
walmart or allie-express aluminum + rim brakes $250 new!!
Nice assessment of the current state of the bicycle market. I've worked in some sort of sales and marketing for most of my life and I know that brand names and monikers definitely help to make the sale. It's a difficult sell in any industry selling the features and advantages of higher end (pricier) components to a customer when they're uneducated about the products no matter how good the salesperson is at pointing out the benefits. Bicycles, guitars, cars...it doesn't matter. I've been a serious rider for over 35 years and the prices have really increased over that time period and probably more so than in other industries because cycling is way more popular now. I bought my first good road racing bike in 1987 for $450. It was a Raliegh Competition with a Reynolds 531 frame and Shimano 600 (the precursor to Ultegra). In 1990 you could buy a handmade, chrome moly-framed bike with Campy Chorus for $2500 (which I did). A similarly spec'd carbon fiber-framed bike would cost at least 4x that now. I'm not really sure what my point is, but one thing I know for sure is that when you spend more money on a better bike, you're more apt to enjoy cycling even more just knowing that you're riding a better bike.
True, there has always been a minimum for a good road bike, that of course grows with inflation. When I started racing in the late 80's / early 90's that figure was like 1000 dollars (you got a good deal on that Raleigh!). It's probably around the same now adjusting for inflation.
The price of a high wheeler (penny farthing) when cycling started in the late 19th century, adjusted for inflation would be like 10-15000 dollars today. Only the rich boys rode them. Some things never change :)
@@PRH123 I bought the Raleigh Competition in 1987 but it was a1986 model year. It was and still is a great bike! I use it on my wind trainer to this day. It's pretty rusted-up because I don't really take care of it, but still works great.
Realistically, someone who is getting their first road bike is going to have a lot of trouble with the race bike riding position.
This exactly true. Just to test if I like the position I bought a used cyclocross for 250€ that used to be 1300€ new 5 years earlier.
The position ain’t for me or at least takes long time to used to. Likely I have 3 other bikes.
Spot on! But the marketing and the influencers say that you can’t have as much fun if you’re not running an aero race bike with 38cm bars.
True. From racing BMX decades ago, then periodically getting on my road bike, it felt like I was standing on my head on my road bike given the very different riding positions.
Like any sport, you have to build up the fitness and strength. It takes a year or so of riding to strengthen your back, your rear end, and of course your legs, until you can start to ride a road bike with good form.
It's not marketing, it's sport. You can't rightly complain about barbells being heavy when you just start out weightlifting right?
I stopped by a bike shop,they had trek mountain bikes around 500 to 750 dollars,why by some carbon frame bling bike,made by some johnny come lately for 2000 and up.i rode a trek in the 1980s,their all i need.
The entry level market lies in used bike segment. Allez is constantly being sold for less than $700 in like new condition
GC you make some of the best videos - let me start there. Knowledge is the key to getting a good entry level bike. I started out on a LeMond "Reno" back in 1998. Got rear-ended with it on the back of my car and went out (with the insurance money) and purchased my first carbon Fuji Gran Fondo. That bike gave me the best road bike experience. The LeMond had "ole School" Tiagra and the Gran Fondo had the 2nd gen 105. I think a remedy (if you haven't already done a video) is to explain the 7 levels of Shimano components - Claris on up to Dura - Ace. Share with the Entry Level customer that Shimano has "excellently" incorporated the "trickle down" phenomenon with their Groupsets over the years. Also explain how Specialized, Trek and other top brands cut costs on cranks and wheels to make even the $2k bikes more financially affordable. You should conclude with a scenario of how other items pre-COVID were much lower and the cycling industry is no execption. Again, you produce great RUclips videos.
I was diagnosed last year with cardiovascular problems. For me, now is ride or die. I just got my first road bike, Cannondale Supersix Evo, 4500$. I'm not rich by any means, but i need my health back. And to get that, i need to ride. Not to ride one day or one month, i need to ride for years. And i will. For that, i need a quality bike, so i did what i did, and i'm ready.
I love to hear that you are fighting back for your health and this is where the bike price does not matter, This is the goal to be as healthy as possible and price is no option when it comes to longevity of life.... keep up the good work
No style frames with dead end groupsets is a bad combo.
Agree that Shimano needs to update the lower tier groupsets. It makes no sense that a entry level consumer dead ends with Tiagra. 105 is future proof. They can upgrade or buy Ultegra or DA parts off their cycling friends. Tiagra owners are dead ended. Better to spend a big chunk upfront on 105.
Tiagra should be 11 speed at least. All the 11 speed stuff should have trickled down to Tiagra and Sora. Claris should be Tiagra 10 or Sora 9 by now.
Also agree the Tiagra alloy road bikes look like crap. Specialized was doing aero shaped alloy road a long time ago. Why not something with some style now? Nothing trickled down with alloy framesets.
In the last paragraph, it sounds like you're talking about the first-generation Allez Sprint.
Great video, the problem I have ,is that the bikes at this price point are not growing participation to casual riders. Like you say, even back in the 2009 customer used to come in and say my friend this and my friend that. The difference was I always had an Allez at 500-650 which was an easy commuter bike to sell that they could go for a club ride and the following year they would come for an upgrade. Gone are those days makes me sad 😔
What would you recomend me, Tarmac Sl6 Tiagra or Allez Sprint Comp 105, prob will upgrade wheelset and stuff later...
If you cannot swallow the higher service costs of headset-related work, the Tarmac SL6 FACT 9r is your choice.
Online bike sales and gravel. That’s why no one buys these bikes any more at a shop
I went and found an old rim brake bike that was barely ridden and put some carbon wheels on that bad boy. How do you get Ultegra DI2 and beat the weight on a new bike.. just like that. As long as I can do this I’m not buying a disc road bike.. I’d just get a gravel bike and an extra set of wheels if I was going that way
People are buying good bikes second hands in the price of an entry level new bike, and yes, adviced by RUclipsrs.
Last year I bought a direct-to-consumer aluminum road bike with full 3x8 Claris to serve as a wheel-on trainer and sometime "winter" bike. It's not buttery smooth compared to my Ultegra, Dura-Ace, and Potenza setups, but it would be good enough for the road riding I do, which is a mix of quick solo riding and pretty laid-back group riding. I have taken it on a 30-mile, 18mph average group ride and had no problem at all keeping pace or setting pace. Nor did anyone in the group berate me for riding a 3x Claris-equipped bike. The price -- under $900. Such a bike is durable, largely affordable, reasonably comfortable to ride, and easily "fast" enough for most riders. Sure, my higher-end groupsets are better. But considering a full rim brake 11-speed 105 groupset costs ~$560 US all by itself, a whole bike that's competent enough for just $900 seems like a very good deal.
you are missing the point,groupsetscare at stupid prices,look at What they consist of for the money,a cycle chain is more expensive than a motorcycle chain, groupsets should be half of what's being charged.
@@geoffwalmsley3066 OK, so I missed the point how? I simply related a story of an entry-level bike that is reasonably priced, in my opinion. Of course groupsets are too expensive -- to buy, but not to make. Profit margins are set at buyers threshold of pain, so that's the real price driver.
Thanks for higlighting this issue. Mainstream entry level and lower mid range bikes from Specialized and Trek are way overpriced and under specified to appeal to yer average newbie and enthusiast cyclist or triathlete nowadays. The $1200- 1400 Specialized Allez aluminium road bike should have a Shimano 105 12 speed mechanical, and a lower mid $ 2200- $ 2500 range Tarmac carbon should have Shimano 105 Di2 or even Ultegra Di2.. Unless the mainstream cycling industry begin to offer value for money, the cycling industry will go into recession. I never thought I would see Claris 8 Speed and Sora 9 speed equiped bikes being sold for $1200. Consumers aren't stupid, we tend spend our hard earned disposable income wisely.
I think this is the issue. They are trying to so under-spec the entry level that, really should also be the crit ready CAT4 market as well
I think a dedicated “crit” bike with rim brakes and alu frame and mechanical 105 (Shimano screwed that up) would absolutely be a category killer.
I also think the “Gravel” bike craze is similar to the 90’s. “MTB” craze where basically anyone wanting to get into biking is deciding to just go gravel (and psssttt….modern Gravel is just what 90’s hard ta MTB was)
my local bike shop went out of business last year
Man, prices are crazy in the US. When you say 'entry level bike' in the UK, people assume it means £600 tops
Show me a Specialized in the UK for $600. Decathlon is not Specalized.
I think they actually do have those brands but Grant isn't one of those stores . I know here you can go to Halfords or decathlon for something super cheap.
@@robertcatuara5118O thank they were suggesting the Allez wouldn't be considered an entry level road bike in the UK due to its price regardless of where it sits in the brands pecking order.
you can get an entry level Boardman at Halfords for about 500 quid with rim brakes
That intro was classic 😂
I bought my first Specialized Allez in 2008 for 900$. I had never ridden a road bike as an adult prior to this, I was 45 at that time. I clearly remember being stunned that the cost of buying the road biking was small compared to the additional expense of helmet, shoes, pedals, cleats, computer, lycra, etc. I feel road biking in the USA has become a purely elitist activity. I refuse to ride with clubs. Presently I live in the Philippines. One can still buy a cheap Chinese road bike with plenty of knock off components for under 400$. I ride a Sunspeed Triton now. I focus on quality tires. There are lots of Filipinos who just enjoy the ride.
I've been into biikes most of my life , I have never spent more than 400 dollars for any of them and I was able to do everything that the bling bikes could do.
I’ve owned 50+ bikes, not one brand new. Nice used bikes with mid to premium components are widely avail, now more than ever. The $1500 low tier new bike is worth $600 used day after you bought it.
That’s a lot of bikes!!
I can’t afford these multi-thousand dollar bikes anymore.
😂😂 happy new year, stay awesome in 2024 and beyond 🍻😎👍🏽
I last bought a bike in 2016/17 and the landscape as far as mid-range bike that I can use for commuting as well as fun rides on the weekend when the panniers come off has changed so much. Im looking at $2550 for a top of the range Trek Domane AL5 and it doesnt come with ultegra or a half decent set of wheels that i'd be happy to keep and ride for a year or two before upgrading. My commuter cost me $1000 and was specced with 10sp 105 and semi decent Mavic Aksiums.
Domane AL4 - $2165 comes with a Tiagra 4700 and the same Bontrager Paradigm SL's as the AL5. Back in 2016/17 $2165 would get you an half decent ultegra equipped carbon bike.
I can either save myself a tonne of money by rebuilding my commuter with new wheels and an 11sp 105 groupset which is the cheapest option or I can wait to see if shimano ever refreshes the Tiagra groupset because I really want something that has disc brakes to replace my rim brake commuter.
It is incredible how companies, no matter the product, have a dip in sales and then skyrocket their prices to make up for lost profit only to have less people purchase their product and they still wonder why they can’t sell things.
I can BARELY afford my apartment right now. There is no way I am considering dropping thousands of dollars on a bike.
Ive been cycling for years but try to keep a realistic perspective on what I actually need...I'll *never* need a bike that runs more than $1k-$1.5k. So Ive just been buying the same "high-end entry level" bike because its what im happy with at my skill level. Anything more than that is just bragging.
I just want a working road bike ideally under $400 for my commute man. I'd take steel/aluminum, I don't care much about groupsets, I don't even care about the high end stuff.
Decathlon rc120 rim brake model.
Lifetime warranty on the frame too
@@SystemParanoia Never on stock. Rip me
@@nuw5396 😭😭
Ozark Trail, Mongoose Grit and others, aluminum low-end gravel bikes that are actually very good. From Walmart. There's a great u tube channel called Kev Central where he reviews less expensive bikes. It's not like in the past where bikes in this range were crap, in the last couple of years they have really progressed and are now fairly decent and useful inexpensive bikes.
@@SystemParanoia got that one for my son, very nice for the price
Alu frame with alu wheels and a junky groupset equals one heavy bike.It's just not value for money when you can get something 2nd hand and better.
to be honest, i had this cannondale entry level tiagra some time ago, grew out of it pretty quickly like 4-5 months, luckly got it second hand, let me be clear, they are not bad bikes, but you get bored of them pretty quickly, thhey just dont excit me as much as the bikes as you get more into the sport, tbf honestlly i think as a starter to road cycling just by a seind hand bike,
I'm a pandemic cyclist. Wanted to get into riding for health and fitness. Picked up his and hers Giant comfort cycles and quickly realized we were underbiked at some of the events we joined . But after spending $1800 during the pandemic it was hard to look at $2000 bikes .
We decided to go with Poseidon, direct to consumer. Spending just as much on upgrades as on the bike we realized we had become addicted to.
Now 3 bikes each in the garage I'm looking for another road bike and I will be looking for mid to top tier .
My point is , the last 4 years has been a whirlwind of purchases for many . I think the reason you're seeing a shift in customer base is due to situations like mine . Many people spent the cheap dollars already and are now ready to get the good stuff .
One more thing to mention. During the pandemic many people were pulling out of savings. 401k , Roth accounts . 2021 being the last year. The penalties and taxes were allowed to be spread over 3 years . Many just didn't have that nice refund around April due to the fee associated with pandemic relief funds .
Anyway . Thank you for the video , it was interesting to watch , entertaining .
I actually just bought the red allez, mainly to simplify. My Gunnar with sram force is becoming a money pit.
I love the way it rides, but I do see your point on beginners
For some reason...ppl will pay more simply because they think it's better. And if something is better, it won't be better solely because it costs more. Biking has always been perceived as a rich persons sport... but it has gotten so much worse....to tell someone that "entry level" which is almost looked at as a bad thing is $1200 is just ridiculous.
I started riding in 1980. I believe I paid $350 for a steel Schwinn Voyager. That $350 is about $1400 today. That low end Specialized at $1400 is a much nicer bike! People interested in getting into cycling can do it for a reasonable amount. You may not get or need the $5000 bike experience. Who cares!?! You’ll still have a great bike. And look at what you spend on your phone, streaming, etc. Maybe prioritize your spending.
Yea I sold an entry level Salsa Journeyman, and while I love salsa frames, it comes with a 2x8 for 1000 bucks! Domane AL 2 with rim brakes from trek is 1200. After watching your video I think the Salsa was a good choice. Salsa frames are great for upgrading.
I have that Allez. Its my commute bike. I can fit 38m gravel tires on it with no problem. I had it out in the mud and it did fine. Its definitely a all around bike. I plan on buying my son one just for the ability to put gravel tires on it.
A lot of older low/mid price bikes have been available. I bought an Orro (British brand) full carbon, with ultegra, fulcrum r5, deda components, great bike, £2100 reduced from 3000. Add a pair of fulcrum carbon 55 wheels, reduced to 550, that's a lot of bike for under 3k. So a lot of cheaper bikes were left on the shelf.
Big box stores are starting to offer frames with cheap components to be upgradable under 500 Bucks.
yea I am seeing big box stores getting more and more competitve
It was obvious where are going main brands with their price policy, and creating trends. It is going up, and up to make believe that average person MUST HAVE 3-5K bike, which is insane!
Entry-level should be $500. It's madness.
Giant and Decathlon for the win.
Entry-level won't have Specialized, Giant, Trek, etc. badges.
I'm fine with that until someone can show a meaningful difference between the Made in Indonesia bike and the Made in Taiwan bike.
@@NunoLima1337 I might be wrong with when it comes to road bikes since I'm just a hybrid bike rider (Giant Contend 3 is around $1000), but for MTB/hybrid, you can get a Giant Talon 3 or Escape 3 at around $500.
$1000 as "entry-level" for most hobbies or sports is just too much for anyone that's not rich and wants to try it a new hobby out without worrying if cycling is going to be for them or not. Sure, they can sell the bike later, but some people don't like the hassle of having to sell it.
Which is why in my country (Philippines) with its lower income, a lot of beginner and poor cyclists are using Chinese brands like Trinx, Mountainpeak, Sunpeed,etc. because they can actually afford them (and also cause they're widely available). Then they move on to a "real" brand later if they wish. Or go used, but one will only have the confidence to judge if a used bike is good if they have some riding and repair skills under their belt already...
Though if it were me I'd get a Triban RC120 or even RC100 just for the extra assurance.
My logic with new bikes is frame first as wheels, drivetrain, contact points, etc are parts there wear out but the frame stays. Entry level bike are tough due the need to put quality long lasting parts on it but still keep in budget.
Entry level now for my crew is a tour de france winning trek with 7800 near new off a surgeon for 3-500USD lol.
06:58 Decathlon
Road cycling is a niche hobby now. Also , entry level folks seem to gravitate toward gravel bikes.
Well in last 2-3 years all the bikes specially cheap ones are comming with funny brakes, shifters and even drivetrain. All you get is frame and then you have to upgrade it according to your needs. In the end it comes to 3x price of the bike from the shop.
you are right, prices are insane for the people who want to get started.....
Thank you for this follow up video. I strongly agree with you on so many points. Among them, Shimano has a significant impact on this market with their decisions about how to both progress and price their tiagra and lower groups. Tiagra r5000(?) is certainly coming but likely to be 11 speed. I actually think for once i agree with SRAM in their approach of taking their top 4 groups straight to 12s and offering at a huge range of prices. This would keep compatibility with a lot of parts among tiagra up to DA easing availability issues and maybe open wider compatibility with the now *somewhat* compatible 12s Shimano mtb/GRX/road components.
I think Sora would actually be a very attractive hydraulic 10s option for $1200 bikes and Claris makes more sense to me to vaporize and become replaced by CUES which has its own broad compatibility 9-11s.
Actually you can upgrade that 10-speed Tiagra 4700 bike to 11 or 12 speed by changing only the right rear shifter, cassette, and chain. The cable pull for both RD and FD Tiagra 4700 matches that of Dura-Ace 9100 and 9200.
@@lastfm4477 I'm actually aware of the cable pull but I am thinking about new complete bikes.