must respect the technical people and the engineers like this person in the video. This is hard work. Politicians and lawyers cannot survive doing 1 hour of this job.
Wow, what a job. You have to admire the engineering that goes into modern EV batteries. I’ve personally seen inside a Tesla battery and was blown away, amazing stuff.
@@Brendon_MAgreed, it takes many decades to master it - performance, reliability and economy.. yet thanks to Elon Mush which open the door to China to wipe out ICE development and do what China do best, semiconductor and electronic the things they been producing all for a decades
@@mondotv4216 lol and batteries like this one does not need cobalt. and btw. Australia provides about the most lithium, Sweden and (maybe USA) will follow since huge reserves were discovered
I know some taxi in Shenzhen using BYD EVS. In 4-5 years these ev-taxi has run about 600k-700k KM. And the bettary in these EVS still in very good performance state.
@@billykulim5202 you're stating the obvious...the point he's making is the performance is still adequate after the long period and especially the mileage. For an average driver, that mileage translates to 20-30 years of driving, without taking into consideration the natural degradation of the battery chemical.
BYD before they became EV cars they are manufacturing battery company like Laptop, telephone including they supplied Motorola and Nokia batteries during the 90s and 20s so therefore I trust them when comes to batteries because they are expertise
Too bad the car manufacturers are dragging their name through the dirt by not engineering proper cooling for the cells. Thats why these things are catching fire left and righttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
I just tested the Seal and I'm blown away! ICE feels like a thing of the past now. This is the future, and it's mind-blowing! This looks like some 10,000+ mobile phones joined together. The engineering behind it is incredible! Sure, there's a bit of a scary thought if one phone catches fire, but hey, bring it on! 🔥
Thanks. There is a part 2 and 3 up now. Though my plans have changed and I won't be pulling the cells out anymore, instead I'll be rewiring the cells in situ
Mr. Brenden, Congratulations on this monumental work that nobody has the will and effort to undertake. Assuming if i had done all this risky job and if this battery was faulty repairing or replacing without having genuine parts will render this work as useless. Love and respect for your great effort.
Accidentally coming across your video from Shanghai, China, I found it quite intriguing. What I can share with you is that the cost of replacement batteries is typically about half the price of the vehicle itself, which is comparable to the repair expenses for a mid-range vehicle☺
Thanks for sharing. BYDs delivered in Australia cost roughly double what they cost in China so the battery pack theoretically could be replaced for a 1/4 the price of a new car here.
@@Brendon_M 60kwh LFP are selling to ev manufacturers for around 4k US now, can't remember if they were CATL or BTY, but yeah, materials and chemistry is getting cheaper every month, sodium ion just rolling out now on small EVs in china, byd is ramping up production and so is northvolt who revealed their 160wh/kg sodium ions late last year ev prices are going to be cheaper than ICE soon
Thank you very much for the video from Spain! 👏👏👏 At first, I was happy, watching that it was possible to remove the cover, but after, things changed... it is a pity that repairs are not feasible, at least easily... Thank you very much for your work and for all the information that you have offered in the comment section 😁😁😁😁😁
A Tesla pack of the Model Y BYD blade battery pack is much better organized, more efficient and easier and cheaper to build. BYD has a bit to learn. They are on a good way but they still have a long road before them.
@@wolfgangpreier9160Tesla battery can catch fire, BYD blade doesn’t, it can run punctured, Tesla battery charge less than 100% to extend life and BYD blade can charge to 100% every time, Tesla battery drop about 30% in cold weather and BYD blade battery drop about 15% in comparison
@@ALWH1314 You know that Tesla uses BYD blade batteries? Then why do you tell me that BYD blade batteries catch fire and BYD blade batteries do not - which is - btw - not correct. But whatever. You must be a fun-troll-chinese-spy!
@@wolfgangpreier9160 And because they're packed according to the Americans' demands, they are dangerously fire-prone. Look at the recent Walibi Holland fire for example. Two Teslas went up like a bonfire, a Leaf burned easily, the BYD Atto3's refused to go up, one Renault Zoe refused to go up. Honourable mention for an Opel Mokka-E that took medium fire pressure from the side and refused to go up. The Loooopings website 'Brand op parkeerplaats Walibi Holland' has a photo of the Tesla throwing up flames twice its own height. Right next to the inferno, an Atto3 that's showing that much fire pressure doesn't compromise its structure or battery. A Tesla model x took very little fire pressure from behind, but lit like a bonfire and was literally burned in half. Photos at local media Omroep Flevoland 'Zes elektrische auto's uitgebrand bij Walibi' And I see more photos of Teslas basically burning to a crisp while other EVs that took more damage (either impact or fire pressure from other sources) remain more structurally intact. The reason Tesla buys from BYD is because BYD has better engineering than Tesla has itself, or the Korean batteries Tesla bought before. If only Musk can get his sociopathic fingers off the designs and let the Chinese engineers do their jobs, they'd be much higher quality.
@@ALWH1314 >> Tesla battery can catch fire, BYD blade doesn’t, > Tesla battery charge less than 100% to extend life and BYD blade can charge to 100% every time
Maybe in future we should be building home power systems to use the batteries as-is. Of course we'll need to build an open source thing that can talk to the BMS and all that, but it's far easier than dismantling, removing cells, building a new enclosure, building new battery management... I doubt we'd be able to home-build anything with a nicer form factor than this, just lean the battery pack against a wall and bolt it so it doesn't tip over, and connect some wires to it and you're presumably set :D
You're in luck Dala (Dala's EV Repairs on RUclips) has made just what you are after. He has made an interface box that talks to a few different model solar inverters and a bunch of various EV batteries so all you need to do is buy the battery and bolt it to your wall. All open source on GitHub too (his handle there is Dalathegreat)
I see BYD went to great lengths to make this battery pack serviceable with the use of pop rivets !!! Recycling this battery pack at the end of it's life will also be very difficult.
I run an off grid power system that uses two batteries from Mitsubishi Outlander PHEVs. Easiest to dismantle and reconfigure. Cells can be individually lifted out and have M8 studs for connecting!
EVs are now coming in with plugin feature, apparently this idea is part of the aus gov strategy to decarbonise the grid - consumer evs essentially serving as a mega battery during nights i know byd offer this feature, seal 82kwh costs 60k plus you get a car, should be getting cheaper in the coming yes but seems like a potential alternative to ultra expensive home batteries atm
Thanks. The battery recycling I've seen mostly just involved giant shredders so easy disassembly is not too important for commercial companies. But anyone wanting to reuse these packs are going to have a hard time
Specifically, see the Li-Cycle battery recycling processing which can take the whole 1000+lbs EV battery _as is_ and literally *shred* it. Then separate its shredded components by density in a proprietary liquid column along with some other processing afterwards. Search RUclips "li-cycle battery recycling" and especially the video from JerryRig where he recently went to a Li-Cycle Arizona plant to see the operation up close. The process uses no heating so no fumes at all. The water is recycled. Some 95% recovery of the battery including black mass, metals, and plastics. You can see the machine feeds from 1000+lbs EV batteries to palm sized phone batteries all the same. Kinda like eating sunflower seeds versus a big pork chop and it all gets digested the same way.
Hard to recycle? Wrong - relatively quite easy actually. There are more and more companies doing this now- only problem being lack of car batteries to recycle. As more become available, the recycling will only increase. (It’s MUCH cheaper to recycle than mine new minerals.)
@@Brendon_M A BYD fala que respeita o consumidor e o meio ambiente, que baita mentira! Realmente precisamos que os governos fiquem atentos a questão de reparo dessas baterias.
This is called ''research and development or R & D''. But according to USA its called IP theft. I have to disagree with the USA. I hope BYD send you a new battery of promoting their battery would be great :) 👍👍👍👍👍
I was looking forward fir this information. It is not easy to work with. But is posible . Let's see how much will cost for a battery like this in Brazil.
The "glue" is a specially-engineered thermally conductive adhesive. It needs to be resilient, thin, and void-free to provide a thermally conductive pathway between the battery and the air-cooling channels.
Am I the only one who thinks that this pack, neat and sophisticated it is, is basically a nightmare to repair or recycle? If it develops a fault it is basically a bomb awaiting defusing.
It's clear cell to pack method, but I don't see the structure part (other than cells being glued together). It would be interesting to see Tesla's version of the Blade cell pack.
I've yet to see an actual "structural" pack from any car manufacturer. As far as I can tell it's just marketing hype. They all just increase rigidity in the car body. Personally I think a structural pack is a bad idea, I don't think the cells would last long-term with all the various loads put on them
@@Brendon_M I would say 4680 Battery pack from Texas Model Y is actual structural part, but they don't make many of them. - 4680 ramp up is nowhere there yet.
@@HVM_fiTeslas 4680 is already superseded. CATLs new design has higher volumetric density. Most Tesla cars sold world wide use CATL or BYD LFP batteries now. I suspect Tesla might ulitmately stop making batteries.
@@Brendon_M I've read an auto engineer's take, that structural cells are a dumb idea. Putting huge structural loads on fragile batteries is just asking for disaster.
the ICE components is the most exp components part of the ICE car. energy storag/gas tank is very cheap. opposite for the BEV, battery is the most expensive part of BEV.
Seeing that giant line of BMS makes me worried. If only one of those fails, the battery will become a dead brick. And the way its constructed, repairing it is impossible. You can only hope that the scrap value is high enough to offset the price of a new pack enough, if you ever get into a situation where the battery fails.
Wow, I thought it would be more easily repairable (cell swap), but seens almost impossible. What do you think about that? Btw congrats, very nice project and video.
I would rather not encourage self repairing of battery, which could be potentially more dangerous after such non-authorised repairing. Always remember: SAFETY FIRST
Kind of makes the battery very hard to repair or recycle when its end of life. Pretty disappointed and there should be laws preventing this type of manufacturing.
🔥🔥🔥 In China no person owns any piece of land, to get money everybody has to work (or) become entrepreneur. Govt also has good schemes to encourage this. If you want land?-you can get easily; you want finance?- you can get easily; you want man power?-you can get easily; And, since there is no Govt change it can do long term development plans easily. Thse are the two main reasons why china has developed so rapidly (may be my comment looks irrelevant here, but these are two main reasons why China has developed rapidly so fast)
Thanks. The raw footage is about 2 hours all up, maybe about another hour or so of looking at things deciding how I'm going to tackle them. So it wasn't as bad as I thought. I'm yet to cut all the busbars apart. I suspect that'll take some time
I'm disappointed because you cannot replace the cells in a BYD pack. If a cell fails then the whole pack is destined for recycling. Hopefully they are as reliable as BYD claims and cells won't have to be replaced
Thanks for bringing the content, BYD should help you with the repair after seeing your video actually does advertising. But seriously, don't do it again, for your own safety buddy.
Could be a really interesting video but 2 suggestions. 1. the volume of your speak is really low. I need to set the volume to max but makes other sound to hard. And 2. the pictures and clips looks like there was not a good focus or something. The video self is very nice! :) Have a nice weekend!
You freeze the pack to get the glue off. Then dismantle module at a time. Drilling directly through is crazy. Electrolyte is not ideal to inhale, and charged cell electrodes are flammable.
The drilling was to get the rivets that hold the chill plate off. The busbars are welded on as well so there is no way to dismantle this battery without cutting or drilling.
It's terrifying to watch. Fixing this is no joke. And who will fix such a car for you when it is out of warranty and breaks down? But if someone is found who knows, it will be very expensive.
Hard to fix, but there will be people who do it. Just the same as there are people who rebuild engines or transmissions, it can be a complex job but someone will be able to do it when needed (which should hopefully be a rare occurrence)
Thanks. I agree the lid should be more sturdy. I saw a picture of a battery pack where a rat had chewed a hole in the plastic lid and tried to make a home inside the battery
Thanks for the Video. Very Informative. Just one thing, Before taking out the battery, You must have also open the service disconnect. Where was it in Atto 3?
The Atto 3 doesn't have a service disconnect. The manual says to disconnect the 12V battery and then just unplug the HV cable from the side of the inverter stack. You then put a cover over the end of the cable that locks in place to keep it from being plugged back in or the terminals touched
My local BYD sales representative was bragging about that the battery was so easy to repair/replace cells/modules in. I should go back there and show him this video. The worst battery pack I have seen from that point of view! 😂😅😢😂
Too bad the cells are glued down making it not easy to service. After a few years, these cells are still good for energy storage. recycling them for home ess would be great, but seeing how it is glued down like that, I am very discouraged to buy 2nd hand of these... :(
Slot of new solar inverters take a high voltage battery so when these batteries are too weak to run a car you'll be able to just unbolt them and plug them into a solar inverter with a small interface module for communication. It's the way I would have gone if I didn't already own a 48V inverter
Could you show a bit more detail in connection of cold plate to the cell? How many insulating layers and what exactly bonds to what? Example (assumption): cell wrapped in adhesive bonded film (blue), then adhesive bonding the blue wrap to bare metal cold plate?
I'm no longer going to try and pull the cells out of the case. I wasn't expecting them to be glued in so now I'll be keeping them in that case but I am planning on rewiring the pack to a different voltage and I'll try to make a video of that process. I'll also try to get a few more close up shots of the way the cells are glued in and attached
Why do you want to fully disassemble the battery. Just keep it and use a High Voltage BESS inverter. And find a way to communicate with the BMS of the battery and make a "translator" to standardized CAN messages for the HV BESS inverter.
'High voltage' home inverters operate around 100-150Vish, as that voltage is the closest to actual solar string voltages found in typical home setups, not the 400V this pack puts out..
Hello man, excellent video, the disassembly of the byd battery is very interesting, from what I understand, the car had a collision, The battery was damaged and you decided to open it at home and get the knowledge to repair it. Here in Brazil, Chinese cars are arriving with a lot of desire to sell, With your knowledge, the durability of these cars is reliable, do you know the price to change a cell or the entire battery? Does it really last more than 200 thousand kilometers? Thanks.
Thanks. You're close. The car had a collision but was deemed unrepairable by the insurance company so it can never go back on the road. The battery wasn't damaged. I have pulled it out and apart so I can use it in my home storage system. Unfortunately I don't think it is possible to replace a cell in one of these battery packs due to the way it has been built. Hopefully the cars are as reliable as BYD claim. Which I think they will be, otherwise BYD will be in trouble as even they will struggle to repair these batteries. I don't know the price to replace the battery pack.
I understand, it's bad that the insurance company doesn't repair the car, maybe for the total price of car+battery it's unfeasible. I think the battery is very expensive, maybe it's not worth it, thank you very much for the quick response, good luck with your home project.
one of the problem of BYD LFP blade battery is , because of the arrangement of the battery pack , rectangle rather than round , they can fit in more battery pack in the same chassis size, like extra 25%, that's how they able to compete with more advance lithium ion battery in terms of density. however if any of the battery pack expand, (common and unavoidable problem for most battery) it will break the connector easily due to no room for expansion, and it was unrepairable, not covered by insurance as far as in china.
@@Brendon_MIf Thai prices are the same as other markets then it's 1.2 million baht to buy the car and 800,000 baht to replace the battery either though accident or failure. And be sure LFP maybe a reliable chemistry, but building the pack is a different story.
Thanks for the video. I learned, that the quality isn't so bad as some claim. There is plenty of videos talking about how bad BYD is. Seems very good to me from engineering point. BTW, allegedly BWD uses LFP cells. If so, you will need 16S for storage, if that's on your mind.
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with the way the battery is built in terms of quality. Only downside is the lack of repairability but with the life span BYD are expecting from these batteries that's not really an issue for someone looking to buy an EV. They are LFP cells but due to my current system I'll be running it as a 14S pack rather than the traditional 16S.
It is puzzling that BYD's battery is clearly the safest, and even though it has been passed the Acupuncture test, but many people say it is the worst quality. Rumors and prejudices are really terrible, and can turn black and white upside down
Do you know if there is any way to use the inbuilt BYD BMS that's already on this battery? As there are hybrid inverters that work with 400DC. Have seen this BYD battery forsale for approx $3000 very tempted.
Are there any cooling channels? Because one of the issue with blade design is that all the cells are adjacent to each other tightly and only surface available for cooling are top and bottom part of whole unit (battery pack)
Very interesting , do you think in the future reconditioning of this battery will be possible, and do you think this battery could last 20 years , cheers
Personally I don't think there will be much in the way of reconditioning these batteries. Maybe if there is a chemical to dissolve the glues, but you'd still need to get BMS and busbars off the cells which I can't see a non destructive way of doing. The build quality seems fine and so far BYD have a good track record in making cells and battery packs so I think the battery will last. LFP is a (relatively) safe chemistry that is known for lasting and the thermal management is well designed so I'd have no hesitation in buying something with this pack. They'll probably fail in warranty or not at all
Well, currently we write them off as broken if they lose 30% capacity. But that's still 42 kwh worth of battery that works. What we really need is an adapter to hook those into home solar panel installations as a battery buffer, solve the problem of old grids not able to handle neighbourhoods being a huge net electricity delivery area during the daytimes when the sun is out, instead of using it up like they did in the past.
@@poopkljok8342 More important is temperature and time at maximum voltage. Dahn has 10k cycled NCM when DOD is 30-70% ruclips.net/video/URi4JNq6zY8/видео.html
The construction and build quality is solid, but it is also very much non-repairable. Theoretically it should be very reliable, but it's going to depend on how much BYD cheaped out on the components. I've heard random Internet stories saying the BMS boards are failing and also stories saying they are bulletproof. Not sure where the truth lies. Time will tell I guess.
It may be possible with some specialist equipment for the busbars and chemicals to dissolve the adhesives but yes, as far as I can tell if you have a cell die then the whole pack would have to be replaced.
@@xarifa777 I don't think even the manufacturer will be able to replace them, it'll take some very specialised equipment. If a cell fails while the car is under warranty they'll just replace the whole pack and send the old one to recycling then write-off the lost value. Once the car is out of warranty the manufacturer won't be interested in spending time and money replacing single (or groups) of cells for their customers. Instead they just sell a new pack/ whole car. I have no doubt that someone will work out dodgy way to replace single cells but it's not going to be easy and I suspect not financially viable.
@@xarifa777 I agree, while the cells not being easily replaced is disappointing it's a non-issue. I expect the battery pack to outlive the body of the car. Certainly wouldn't stop me from buying a BYD.
Yes, the way I see it is if BYD are willing to make it this hard to replace a cell they must have plenty of confidence the pack will outlast its warranty without issue
Brendon, have you had any issues with the heating and cooling? It did not appear from the video that you connected up the liquid cooling system, is that unnecessary? Are there any regulatory issues connecting a battery of this size to the grin in WA? thx Bill K
No cooling/heating and so far I don't think I need it. It would be nice to have but overkill. The thermal mass of the battery seems to be more than enough to keep the temps in check. The most I ever pull out or put in to the battery is 5kW and it's designed for over 150kW. Ambient heat in the middle of summer pushes the temp up but is in a coolish area of my house and hasn't been a problem. If I get a string of hot days I might put a fan on it if the temps get to high. I have actually had some over heating in the inverter, it only has some cooling fins and pushing 5kW continuously for hours on end causes it to overheat and de-rate. I installed a fan and that seemed to cure that issue. No regulatory issues other than the inverter had to be less than 5kW (I'm on single phase), as long as the sparky was happy and he didn't seem to care
@@Brendon_M thanks for taking the time to reply. I am in Qld on the Southeast Darling Downs, summer is hot. My system is currently at 30 kW of solar panels and delivers 3 phase. I intend to use the battery, as is, paired with a Goodwe ET series hybrid inverter and all going well connect a second battery in parallel. I am powering a recirculation aquaculture project. It draws about 6-7kW, 24 hours per day. I will go to the trouble of connecting the liquid cooling system to a radiator and fan. I will let you know how it goes. regards Bill K
The battery isn't liquid cooled. It's a refrigerant loop. You might be able to push coolant through the channels but they are very small. If you are using the battery as a whole (good choice btw) then, if you haven't already, have a look at Dala's EV repair RUclips channel.
@@Brendon_M Interesting, the vehicle I dismantled was so extensively damaged in the front end it was impossible to follow all the coolant lines. I have been unable to find a workshop manual for this vehicle, were you able to access one? I have seen some of Dala's videos, I will have another look. thx Bill K
Yes and no. This battery will be in parallel to my current home storage battery so I'm trapped in keeping the voltage the same as my current system. I did consider upgrading my whole system to be able to run a high voltage but for better or worse I've stuck to this path. I'd be quite interested to find out if the CAN communication used by BYD is the same between their home storage packs and their automotive packs. Very convenient if they do but it won't be me working that out. (At least not at the moment)
Have you discussed any of this with BDY? Are they approachable at all? They must know these battery packs would be desirable. Questions like what glue and can it be disabled? I wonder if they issue any papers on disposing of packs, this might help.@@Brendon_M
Nah, I never spoke to BYD. Probably should have. They're not Tesla so they may have just sold me a pack as a spare part and I could have cut out the whole dealing with the car body bit. I'd be interested in how BYD dispose/recycle the packs in house but it wouldn't help me now anyway as I'm set on my (no doubt ill-advised) path
@@Brendon_M I was thinking maybe a heat gun could soften the glue sufficiently to ease the cover off, then maybe enable the cells to be separated. Depends a lot on the glue though
hello i have a question, From your video I can't understand how they keep the cells compact? also I can't figure out what material is that 2/3 centimeter spssor made of that you see in one of your freeze frame when you lightly lift the cold plate? congratulations on the work
The cells are just sitting between some aluminium cross braces. I'm guessing they don't swell very much so there is nothing that actually clamps them together. The "spacer" stuff is some sort of hard adhesive. Presumably it is a thermally conductive layer that takes up all the voids better the cells and cooling plate
I thank you for your reply, it would be interesting to see the placement of the crossbars. In the end and initial part of the pack it seems from your video that there is an end plate, is it still aluminum? @@Brendon_M
Não façam isso em casa desmontar uma simples bateria de célula por causar incêndio e queimaduras profundas. Imaginem uma bateria dessas. No vídeo o responsável sabe e entende os riscos usa equipamentos mínimos de segurança.
@@jaaklucas1329 Let me rephrase that. "So basically the battery is un-repairable. Seems to me that replacing the entire engine in an ICE would be easier and cheaper !" If the cells are glued in then there isn't a repair path so scrap. Basically the value of a used EV is the car minus the cost of a new battery (and installation labour) which probably comes to about a dollar.
@@chrissybabe8568 Yea lm with you. Like to see an easier solution to fix a few cells in this pack. I believe Telsa can refurbish a pack.Mind you, these cars cost so little in China I guess it is what it is...
@@jaaklucas1329 I have 6 close relatives who have bought EV's (incl 2 x BYD, 1 x Tesla). I avoid any conversation that would require me to call them stupid (5 of them have degrees so they certainly aren't stupid). The only thing I can think of is that they must be what are called early adopters who have totally managed to ignore all the downsides of owning an EV including the reasons of why they are NOT ECO friendly.
@@chrissybabe8568 I only know Ebikes which Ive built and are excellent. Like Edison motors knows, an Emotor is way superior to an ICE engine...even if its run on gas like a diesel locomotive.. As far as why ICE engines have to go,try this.Drive your ICE car into your garage, leave it running, close the door and take a seat.You wont last long. Multiply that times billions of ICE engines around the world,thats the problem.
I won't be parting the rest out. I already have too many car parts lying around my house so I'm trying to get rid of the rest of the car as a whole. The car was more than I really wanted to pay but I got carried away with wanting to do another project. It ended up costing me $11000 by the time it was delivered.
Makes me very concerned how these battery packs would be dealt with when they are end of life. Not only do you have to deal with the power retained but how would they be recycled? Or do they just expect to dump them in a hole in the ground? There should be laws to deal with old batteries, electronics and be able to easily disassemble for recycling. I wont be buying an electrical vehical! Anyhow thanks for making the video and sharing it online, and i think raising questions about are we really helping with saving the planet with electric vehicals?
Even with how difficult this is to disassemble nobody will be throwing them in a hole. It's too valuable as second life storage and when it's not even good for that there's companies like Li-cycle that have set up quite effective shredders that take whole packs in and output the various materials to be reused. That all being said, I agree there should be systems put in place to ensure ease of recycling.
Small ding for car to be written off. This also happened to mates $250k BMW. Insurance premiums for EV’s are surely going to go through the roof at some point.
would like to see if anyone can test the battery safety like BYD claimed, its a good win for them if its true, less people are phobia of the battery fire issue from EV
Well I haven't burnt my house down yet so that's a good start 😄. I'm with you though, I'd like to get some BYD cells and torture test them to see if they stand up to BYD's claims
Someone did that with a Nissan Leaf module, he did a slightly more torture test as he fully charged the pack then used a screwdriver and pierced the pack multiple times, some smoke came out but no fire he then tested the voltage and current and pack was still working, he then tried to burn the pack and only the glue caught fire again battery module was still working!
how did china so advanced in this technology and the main western and japan car manufacureres kept ignoring it. You have to praise elon musk for his role as well.
Yes, China's car manufacturers are going to take over the world faster than anyone realises unless the rest of the world gets serious about electrification.
Nikkei BP engineers in Japan took apart a BYD seal and Tesla model 3 and they concluded BYD was way ahead in terms of tech and reliability. They could not believe it. They decided to use BYD as their standard guideline to build all future EV in Japan.
I will never buy any chinese products until it's really mature, they love to gamble and I am not gambling my life, Do you think they will bear responsibility if anything goes wrong?
@@shaf3006 Not relevant .. china making more EVs than the whole europ combined. Tesla has a mega-factory in china. The main Euro car makers have joint ventures with them.
Musk is one of the main reasons why EVs still have a negative reputation for some. His Tesla made 'EV' a synonym for being ripped off while the mega-corp used you as an expendable guinea pig for testing new half-finished features, and arrogant drivers who after financing away their life savings to get an EV, had something to prove and felt better than other people. 18 confirmed fatalities due to releasing the broken beta software of 'Autopilot' in the US alone. And the Tesla driver eternally hogging the middle or passing lane while napping or using their phone, trusting their life and death to the corporate overlord is an annoyingly common sight these days. Heck, was at the police station 3 weeks ago to make a report. Tesla driver lanehogged for 15+ kilometers straight, then did the typical thing when I undertook, instantly went ballistic, tried to push me off the road, then tried to pull me out of my car at the next traffic light. Considered getting out, couple rounds roadside boxing with some Tesla cultist in his late 40's is probably going to end up favouring me. Light turned green, so I went, an Audi driver put himself in front of the micropenis Tesla guy and blocked him from speeding after me, so that was that. Police can do with the report as they see fit. On a related note: I can confirm BYD makes car windows stronger than the average Tesla driver. 😆 But those are the sorts of people who set the image of Tesla, and with that to a large extent: The image of the early EV and its driver. It was either that or the hippies slowly driving Priuses.
@@Brendon_M hmm, looking at the BMS board (the current sensing side), it looks like there are two ICs redundant to each other, performing the current sensing and HV measurements. This architecture looks similar to NXP (refer to RD-HVBMSCT800BUN)
@@Brendon_M Hmm, which means the Main board contains Infineon's TC234L32F200NACKXUMA1 processor (used widely for automotive safety compliance), while the chips on the Battery sensing boards are still unclear. Lets see if we could reverse engineer more.
@@Brendon_M I guess as long as your inverter can work with the voltage range it doesn't really matter. How about a stronger tape like gorilla tape or trex. Bunnings has some pretty heavy duty tapes which may be better for you. Interesting project!
must respect the technical people and the engineers like this person in the video.
This is hard work. Politicians and lawyers cannot survive doing 1 hour of this job.
Lawyers live on incidents from battery short or have water drop on the battery materials.
Your comment was kind of silly. Likewise, this worker in the video couldn't survive 1 hour as a lawyer.
Politicians and lawyers do things. They create problems for people so they can profit off it.
Wow, what a job. You have to admire the engineering that goes into modern EV batteries. I’ve personally seen inside a Tesla battery and was blown away, amazing stuff.
No wonder EVs cost so much. Certainly more sophisticated and detailed than I imagined
To be fair, ICE cars are a lot more complicated. Everyone is just used to them.
no@@Brendon_M
@@Brendon_MAgreed, it takes many decades to master it - performance, reliability and economy.. yet thanks to Elon Mush which open the door to China to wipe out ICE development and do what China do best, semiconductor and electronic the things they been producing all for a decades
Actually, China was smarter than that. They cornered a lot of the world's lithium and cobalt market buying up mines in Africa.
@@mondotv4216 lol and batteries like this one does not need cobalt. and btw. Australia provides about the most lithium, Sweden and (maybe USA) will follow since huge reserves were discovered
I know some taxi in Shenzhen using BYD EVS. In 4-5 years these ev-taxi has run about 600k-700k KM. And the bettary in these EVS still in very good performance state.
No guaranted every cell have the same performance. Some may die faster you never knew when electronic involve
@@billykulim5202 you're stating the obvious...the point he's making is the performance is still adequate after the long period and especially the mileage. For an average driver, that mileage translates to 20-30 years of driving, without taking into consideration the natural degradation of the battery chemical.
Please forgive him. He read too much petroleum companies propaganda.
Not some, it is all taxi using BYD
So could be around 1000 cycles. Probably still has 95% soh. Lfp?
BYD before they became EV cars they are manufacturing battery company like Laptop, telephone including they supplied Motorola and Nokia batteries during the 90s and 20s so therefore I trust them when comes to batteries because they are expertise
Agreed, BYD knows how to make cells and batteries
Also do you know the 90s till now still most of the 90% mobile phones the outer shell is manufacturer by this ONE company BYD.
Too bad the car manufacturers are dragging their name through the dirt by not engineering proper cooling for the cells. Thats why these things are catching fire left and righttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
I just tested the Seal and I'm blown away! ICE feels like a thing of the past now. This is the future, and it's mind-blowing! This looks like some 10,000+ mobile phones joined together. The engineering behind it is incredible! Sure, there's a bit of a scary thought if one phone catches fire, but hey, bring it on! 🔥
LFP battery cant catch fire. Its safe.
Byd ❤
@@sivaree2226 CATL cells are better than BYD's. though
These LPF batteries are safer than all the ones in our devices which are lithium ion. LPF not as energy dense for performance but are workhorses.
Wow. Hat's off to you guys.
Very interesting to watch.
Definitely you guys working hard I guess.
Waiting for part two
Thanks. There is a part 2 and 3 up now. Though my plans have changed and I won't be pulling the cells out anymore, instead I'll be rewiring the cells in situ
Mr. Brenden, Congratulations on this monumental work that nobody has the will and effort to undertake.
Assuming if i had done all this risky job and if this battery was faulty repairing or replacing without having genuine parts will render this work as useless. Love and respect for your great effort.
Accidentally coming across your video from Shanghai, China, I found it quite intriguing. What I can share with you is that the cost of replacement batteries is typically about half the price of the vehicle itself, which is comparable to the repair expenses for a mid-range vehicle☺
Thanks for sharing. BYDs delivered in Australia cost roughly double what they cost in China so the battery pack theoretically could be replaced for a 1/4 the price of a new car here.
现在不是更便宜？原材料价格不断降价电池价格就不断降价
nihao brother @@雅君墨客-i9z
Isso se a bateria teoricamente for comprada e usada na China , se for usada no seu país vc pagará impostos e frete @@Brendon_M
@@Brendon_M 60kwh LFP are selling to ev manufacturers for around 4k US now, can't remember if they were CATL or BTY,
but yeah, materials and chemistry is getting cheaper every month, sodium ion just rolling out now on small EVs in china, byd is ramping up production and so is northvolt who revealed their 160wh/kg sodium ions late last year
ev prices are going to be cheaper than ICE soon
Thank you very much for the video from Spain! 👏👏👏 At first, I was happy, watching that it was possible to remove the cover, but after, things changed... it is a pity that repairs are not feasible, at least easily...
Thank you very much for your work and for all the information that you have offered in the comment section 😁😁😁😁😁
You're welcome!
A little more complex than building or repairing an Ebike battery.For safety really.
Extremely well-built battery
No one in the Western World should underestimate the Chinese again. Wisdom varies and knowledge us wide.✌️✌️✌️
For decades really. LED lights etc. Ive been in Ebikes for a decade, all their stuff.
No one with any knowledge has ever underestimated the Chinese….
Now I can see BYD did a decent job on battery pack. Thanks for the hard work! I remembered seeing somewhere a more messy battery pack of Tesla....
A Tesla pack of the Model Y BYD blade battery pack is much better organized, more efficient and easier and cheaper to build. BYD has a bit to learn. They are on a good way but they still have a long road before them.
@@wolfgangpreier9160Tesla battery can catch fire, BYD blade doesn’t, it can run punctured, Tesla battery charge less than 100% to extend life and BYD blade can charge to 100% every time, Tesla battery drop about 30% in cold weather and BYD blade battery drop about 15% in comparison
@@ALWH1314 You know that Tesla uses BYD blade batteries?
Then why do you tell me that BYD blade batteries catch fire and BYD blade batteries do not - which is - btw - not correct. But whatever.
You must be a fun-troll-chinese-spy!
@@wolfgangpreier9160
And because they're packed according to the Americans' demands, they are dangerously fire-prone. Look at the recent Walibi Holland fire for example. Two Teslas went up like a bonfire, a Leaf burned easily, the BYD Atto3's refused to go up, one Renault Zoe refused to go up. Honourable mention for an Opel Mokka-E that took medium fire pressure from the side and refused to go up.
The Loooopings website 'Brand op parkeerplaats Walibi Holland' has a photo of the Tesla throwing up flames twice its own height. Right next to the inferno, an Atto3 that's showing that much fire pressure doesn't compromise its structure or battery.
A Tesla model x took very little fire pressure from behind, but lit like a bonfire and was literally burned in half. Photos at local media Omroep Flevoland 'Zes elektrische auto's uitgebrand bij Walibi'
And I see more photos of Teslas basically burning to a crisp while other EVs that took more damage (either impact or fire pressure from other sources) remain more structurally intact.
The reason Tesla buys from BYD is because BYD has better engineering than Tesla has itself, or the Korean batteries Tesla bought before.
If only Musk can get his sociopathic fingers off the designs and let the Chinese engineers do their jobs, they'd be much higher quality.
@@ALWH1314 >> Tesla battery can catch fire, BYD blade doesn’t, > Tesla battery charge less than 100% to extend life and BYD blade can charge to 100% every time
Maybe in future we should be building home power systems to use the batteries as-is. Of course we'll need to build an open source thing that can talk to the BMS and all that, but it's far easier than dismantling, removing cells, building a new enclosure, building new battery management... I doubt we'd be able to home-build anything with a nicer form factor than this, just lean the battery pack against a wall and bolt it so it doesn't tip over, and connect some wires to it and you're presumably set :D
You're in luck Dala (Dala's EV Repairs on RUclips) has made just what you are after. He has made an interface box that talks to a few different model solar inverters and a bunch of various EV batteries so all you need to do is buy the battery and bolt it to your wall. All open source on GitHub too (his handle there is Dalathegreat)
@@Brendon_Mfajnie a jakiej pojemnosci jest taki akumulator
Seems like a no brainer to me ! Batteries too degraded for vehicle use still have a long life for storage.
I see BYD went to great lengths to make this battery pack serviceable with the use of pop rivets !!! Recycling this battery pack at the end of it's life will also be very difficult.
Wrong! Recycling is relatively easy. It’s also VERY cost effective.
I run an off grid power system that uses two batteries from Mitsubishi Outlander PHEVs. Easiest to dismantle and reconfigure. Cells can be individually lifted out and have M8 studs for connecting!
My current system use LEAF cells. Much more convenient
EVs are now coming in with plugin feature, apparently this idea is part of the aus gov strategy to decarbonise the grid - consumer evs essentially serving as a mega battery during nights
i know byd offer this feature, seal 82kwh costs 60k plus you get a car, should be getting cheaper in the coming yes but seems like a potential alternative to ultra expensive home batteries atm
Belo vídeo amigo, parabéns, você é um profissional de verdade !
very good effort, these batteries are an Art and very complex - hence battery recycling is not easy even commercially.
Thanks. The battery recycling I've seen mostly just involved giant shredders so easy disassembly is not too important for commercial companies. But anyone wanting to reuse these packs are going to have a hard time
Specifically, see the Li-Cycle battery recycling processing which can take the whole 1000+lbs EV battery _as is_ and literally *shred* it. Then separate its shredded components by density in a proprietary liquid column along with some other processing afterwards.
Search RUclips "li-cycle battery recycling" and especially the video from JerryRig where he recently went to a Li-Cycle Arizona plant to see the operation up close.
The process uses no heating so no fumes at all. The water is recycled. Some 95% recovery of the battery including black mass, metals, and plastics. You can see the machine feeds from 1000+lbs EV batteries to palm sized phone batteries all the same. Kinda like eating sunflower seeds versus a big pork chop and it all gets digested the same way.
@@Brendon_M, really apprecite your efforts. Does it mean that replacing bad batteries only (partly) is not going to be easy as well ?
Like said here, watch how they do it,brilliant.
Hard to recycle? Wrong - relatively quite easy actually. There are more and more companies doing this now- only problem being lack of car batteries to recycle. As more become available, the recycling will only increase. (It’s MUCH cheaper to recycle than mine new minerals.)
This shows you the technical prowess of the designers of batteries and EVs. It is not that easy or straightforward.
We need laws forcing the repairability of such battery packs, being glued and welded means they can't be repaired !
I agree. It's a robust design but it takes 1 failed component on the BMS circuit board and the whole thing is trash
@@Brendon_M A BYD fala que respeita o consumidor e o meio ambiente, que baita mentira! Realmente precisamos que os governos fiquem atentos a questão de reparo dessas baterias.
Nice thx u for filming this pack
The battery was not meant to be repaired, similar to Tesla
So sad that manufacturers don't think about long term maintenance.
This is called ''research and development or R & D''.
But according to USA its called IP theft. I have to disagree with the USA. I hope BYD send you a new battery of promoting their battery would be great :) 👍👍👍👍👍
BYD is one of Tesla's battery suppliers.
I liked this video. Greetings from Brazil 🇧🇷
Thankyou
I was looking forward fir this information. It is not easy to work with. But is posible . Let's see how much will cost for a battery like this in Brazil.
The "glue" is a specially-engineered thermally conductive adhesive. It needs to be resilient, thin, and void-free to provide a thermally conductive pathway between the battery and the air-cooling channels.
Thanks for sharing
My pleasure. Hopefully it helps others out before they are like me and dumb enough to try to turn one of these packs into home storage
Am I the only one who thinks that this pack, neat and sophisticated it is, is basically a nightmare to repair or recycle? If it develops a fault it is basically a bomb awaiting defusing.
100%
Wrong. Recycling them is relatively easy. It’s already happening- and is much more cost effective than mining new minerals.
It's clear cell to pack method, but I don't see the structure part (other than cells being glued together). It would be interesting to see Tesla's version of the Blade cell pack.
I've yet to see an actual "structural" pack from any car manufacturer. As far as I can tell it's just marketing hype. They all just increase rigidity in the car body.
Personally I think a structural pack is a bad idea, I don't think the cells would last long-term with all the various loads put on them
@@Brendon_M I would say 4680 Battery pack from Texas Model Y is actual structural part, but they don't make many of them. - 4680 ramp up is nowhere there yet.
@@HVM_fiTeslas 4680 is already superseded. CATLs new design has higher volumetric density. Most Tesla cars sold world wide use CATL or BYD LFP batteries now. I suspect Tesla might ulitmately stop making batteries.
@@nordic5490 LFPs are used standard range and low power models, NMC beat them still energy and power density.
@@Brendon_M I've read an auto engineer's take, that structural cells are a dumb idea. Putting huge structural loads on fragile batteries is just asking for disaster.
the ICE components is the most exp components part of the ICE car. energy storag/gas tank is very cheap. opposite for the BEV, battery is the most expensive part of BEV.
Thanks Brendon. Exactly what I am curious to know about.
Happy to help
Seeing that giant line of BMS makes me worried. If only one of those fails, the battery will become a dead brick. And the way its constructed, repairing it is impossible. You can only hope that the scrap value is high enough to offset the price of a new pack enough, if you ever get into a situation where the battery fails.
Wow, I thought it would be more easily repairable (cell swap), but seens almost impossible. What do you think about that? Btw congrats, very nice project and video.
Thanks. Yeah I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of repairability. On the other hand it speaks to how confident BYD are in the reliability.
I would rather not encourage self repairing of battery, which could be potentially more dangerous after such non-authorised repairing. Always remember: SAFETY FIRST
Kind of makes the battery very hard to repair or recycle when its end of life. Pretty disappointed and there should be laws preventing this type of manufacturing.
@@armunroThese blade batteries have a Large amount of Charge per cell to recycle them dip in liquid Nitrogen and Shread the whole pack. Much safer!
seems that the pack is designed to be replaced completely. no option to service the pack. other than that, it seems pretty efficiently designed.
🔥🔥🔥 In China no person owns any piece of land, to get money everybody has to work (or) become entrepreneur. Govt also has good schemes to encourage this. If you want land?-you can get easily; you want finance?- you can get easily; you want man power?-you can get easily; And, since there is no Govt change it can do long term development plans easily. Thse are the two main reasons why china has developed so rapidly (may be my comment looks irrelevant here, but these are two main reasons why China has developed rapidly so fast)
I wonder if there are videos of unpacking Tesla's blade battery pack to compare build quality. Would be curious to see difference in cooling.
I'm happy to give it a go if Tesla wants to donate one to me😁
Wow, you deserve a medal for perserverance. How long did this part take?
Thanks.
The raw footage is about 2 hours all up, maybe about another hour or so of looking at things deciding how I'm going to tackle them. So it wasn't as bad as I thought. I'm yet to cut all the busbars apart. I suspect that'll take some time
Do you think that you could replace dead cells in the future , like they do in Toyota hybrids, cheers
@@honestjohn6222 probably not, which is disappointing.
@@Brendon_M
Dear ,
May I know what’s makes you disappointing..?
BYD ensure we can replace the cells inside the battery bank instead of dead cells.
I'm disappointed because you cannot replace the cells in a BYD pack. If a cell fails then the whole pack is destined for recycling. Hopefully they are as reliable as BYD claims and cells won't have to be replaced
Thanks for bringing the content, BYD should help you with the repair after seeing your video actually does advertising. But seriously, don't do it again, for your own safety buddy.
Why? Don't you saw the video where the blade cell is punctured with a nail and Don't exploded?
@@augusto_lisboa You don't take any chance risking your life.
No service, just replace it for $20,000-25,000 with a new one, that's depressing
Could be a really interesting video but 2 suggestions. 1. the volume of your speak is really low. I need to set the volume to max but makes other sound to hard. And 2. the pictures and clips looks like there was not a good focus or something. The video self is very nice! :) Have a nice weekend!
Yeah, I never really planned on uploading the video when I recorded it. It and the editing/voiceover was more of an afterthought
What an over complicated time bomb P.O.S.
Very informative - thanks.
Very welcome. Glad I could show it
You freeze the pack to get the glue off. Then dismantle module at a time. Drilling directly through is crazy. Electrolyte is not ideal to inhale, and charged cell electrodes are flammable.
The drilling was to get the rivets that hold the chill plate off. The busbars are welded on as well so there is no way to dismantle this battery without cutting or drilling.
Best suspense movie of the year..
It's terrifying to watch. Fixing this is no joke. And who will fix such a car for you when it is out of warranty and breaks down? But if someone is found who knows, it will be very expensive.
Hard to fix, but there will be people who do it. Just the same as there are people who rebuild engines or transmissions, it can be a complex job but someone will be able to do it when needed (which should hopefully be a rare occurrence)
Thank you for making nice teardown video. Not agree with rubber plastic cover to protect battery.
Thanks. I agree the lid should be more sturdy. I saw a picture of a battery pack where a rat had chewed a hole in the plastic lid and tried to make a home inside the battery
The MG EV batteries appear to be much more repairable than the BYD
Any reason for that
Thanks for the Video. Very Informative. Just one thing, Before taking out the battery, You must have also open the service disconnect. Where was it in Atto 3?
The Atto 3 doesn't have a service disconnect. The manual says to disconnect the 12V battery and then just unplug the HV cable from the side of the inverter stack. You then put a cover over the end of the cable that locks in place to keep it from being plugged back in or the terminals touched
My local BYD sales representative was bragging about that the battery was so easy to repair/replace cells/modules in. I should go back there and show him this video. The worst battery pack I have seen from that point of view! 😂😅😢😂
Too bad the cells are glued down making it not easy to service.
After a few years, these cells are still good for energy storage. recycling them for home ess would be great, but seeing how it is glued down like that, I am very discouraged to buy 2nd hand of these... :(
Slot of new solar inverters take a high voltage battery so when these batteries are too weak to run a car you'll be able to just unbolt them and plug them into a solar inverter with a small interface module for communication. It's the way I would have gone if I didn't already own a 48V inverter
Could you show a bit more detail in connection of cold plate to the cell? How many insulating layers and what exactly bonds to what? Example (assumption): cell wrapped in adhesive bonded film (blue), then adhesive bonding the blue wrap to bare metal cold plate?
I'm no longer going to try and pull the cells out of the case. I wasn't expecting them to be glued in so now I'll be keeping them in that case but I am planning on rewiring the pack to a different voltage and I'll try to make a video of that process. I'll also try to get a few more close up shots of the way the cells are glued in and attached
Why do you want to fully disassemble the battery. Just keep it and use a High Voltage BESS inverter. And find a way to communicate with the BMS of the battery and make a "translator" to standardized CAN messages for the HV BESS inverter.
100% agree. If I was to do it again, that would be the way I'd go
@@Brendon_M ah sorry read the rest of the comments u told that already before. :) still great setup like this and probably learned a lot....
'High voltage' home inverters operate around 100-150Vish, as that voltage is the closest to actual solar string voltages found in typical home setups, not the 400V this pack puts out..
Without fireman suit ? or at least electrican arc protection ? Brave
@0:55 ok, protection appeared :D
Hello man, excellent video, the disassembly of the byd battery is very interesting, from what I understand, the car had a collision, The battery was damaged and you decided to open it at home and get the knowledge to repair it. Here in Brazil, Chinese cars are arriving with a lot of desire to sell, With your knowledge, the durability of these cars is reliable, do you know the price to change a cell or the entire battery? Does it really last more than 200 thousand kilometers? Thanks.
Thanks.
You're close. The car had a collision but was deemed unrepairable by the insurance company so it can never go back on the road. The battery wasn't damaged. I have pulled it out and apart so I can use it in my home storage system.
Unfortunately I don't think it is possible to replace a cell in one of these battery packs due to the way it has been built. Hopefully the cars are as reliable as BYD claim. Which I think they will be, otherwise BYD will be in trouble as even they will struggle to repair these batteries.
I don't know the price to replace the battery pack.
I understand, it's bad that the insurance company doesn't repair the car, maybe for the total price of car+battery it's unfeasible. I think the battery is very expensive, maybe it's not worth it, thank you very much for the quick response, good luck with your home project.
lol the insurance company repair car?? they only know how to make you pay more yearly premium @@rafael7word
one of the problem of BYD LFP blade battery is , because of the arrangement of the battery pack , rectangle rather than round , they can fit in more battery pack in the same chassis size, like extra 25%, that's how they able to compete with more advance lithium ion battery in terms of density. however if any of the battery pack expand, (common and unavoidable problem for most battery) it will break the connector easily due to no room for expansion, and it was unrepairable, not covered by insurance as far as in china.
@@Brendon_MIf Thai prices are the same as other markets then it's 1.2 million baht to buy the car and 800,000 baht to replace the battery either though accident or failure. And be sure LFP maybe a reliable chemistry, but building the pack is a different story.
Waiting for part 2 !!!
There is probably no Part 2......
Thanks for the video. I learned, that the quality isn't so bad as some claim. There is plenty of videos talking about how bad BYD is. Seems very good to me from engineering point. BTW, allegedly BWD uses LFP cells. If so, you will need 16S for storage, if that's on your mind.
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with the way the battery is built in terms of quality. Only downside is the lack of repairability but with the life span BYD are expecting from these batteries that's not really an issue for someone looking to buy an EV.
They are LFP cells but due to my current system I'll be running it as a 14S pack rather than the traditional 16S.
@@Brendon_M Boy, you will get yourself a massive storage which will be very long lasting with LFP cells. Good job.
How is BYD bad? tesla uses BYD's battery
It is puzzling that BYD's battery is clearly the safest, and even though it has been passed the Acupuncture test, but many people say it is the worst quality. Rumors and prejudices are really terrible, and can turn black and white upside down
This isn't bad. It's downright appalling..
Do you know if there is any way to use the inbuilt BYD BMS that's already on this battery? As there are hybrid inverters that work with 400DC. Have seen this BYD battery forsale for approx $3000 very tempted.
Best bet would be Dala's EV repairs on RUclips. Not sure if they have cracked the BYD pack yet but they are working in it on the GitHub (dalathegreat)
Many thanks 👍
Are there any cooling channels? Because one of the issue with blade design is that all the cells are adjacent to each other tightly and only surface available for cooling are top and bottom part of whole unit (battery pack)
No channels unfortunately. The only cooling is through the refrigerant chiller plate that sits on top of the cells
BYD ARE ARRIVING IN BRAZIL WITH STRENGITH....BUT THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T ENCOURAGE TECHNICAL COURSEs.😢
How much did the wrecked Atto 3 cost you? It's a bit disappointing you can't pull the pack apart.
Set me back AUD$11000 by the time I got it to my house
Very interesting , do you think in the future reconditioning of this battery will be possible, and do you think this battery could last 20 years , cheers
Personally I don't think there will be much in the way of reconditioning these batteries. Maybe if there is a chemical to dissolve the glues, but you'd still need to get BMS and busbars off the cells which I can't see a non destructive way of doing.
The build quality seems fine and so far BYD have a good track record in making cells and battery packs so I think the battery will last.
LFP is a (relatively) safe chemistry that is known for lasting and the thermal management is well designed so I'd have no hesitation in buying something with this pack. They'll probably fail in warranty or not at all
Well, currently we write them off as broken if they lose 30% capacity. But that's still 42 kwh worth of battery that works.
What we really need is an adapter to hook those into home solar panel installations as a battery buffer, solve the problem of old grids not able to handle neighbourhoods being a huge net electricity delivery area during the daytimes when the sun is out, instead of using it up like they did in the past.
The service life of a battery has nothing to do with time, but the number of charges and discharges.
@@poopkljok8342 More important is temperature and time at maximum voltage. Dahn has 10k cycled NCM when DOD is 30-70%
ruclips.net/video/URi4JNq6zY8/видео.html
With so many components and complex circuitry, what is the chance that the battery pack fails?
The construction and build quality is solid, but it is also very much non-repairable.
Theoretically it should be very reliable, but it's going to depend on how much BYD cheaped out on the components. I've heard random Internet stories saying the BMS boards are failing and also stories saying they are bulletproof. Not sure where the truth lies. Time will tell I guess.
So much for the theory that individual blades could replaced... it seems these blade batteries are not repairable at all.
It may be possible with some specialist equipment for the busbars and chemicals to dissolve the adhesives but yes, as far as I can tell if you have a cell die then the whole pack would have to be replaced.
@@xarifa777 I don't think even the manufacturer will be able to replace them, it'll take some very specialised equipment. If a cell fails while the car is under warranty they'll just replace the whole pack and send the old one to recycling then write-off the lost value. Once the car is out of warranty the manufacturer won't be interested in spending time and money replacing single (or groups) of cells for their customers. Instead they just sell a new pack/ whole car.
I have no doubt that someone will work out dodgy way to replace single cells but it's not going to be easy and I suspect not financially viable.
@@xarifa777 I agree, while the cells not being easily replaced is disappointing it's a non-issue. I expect the battery pack to outlive the body of the car. Certainly wouldn't stop me from buying a BYD.
@@xarifa777 no, I bought this car (2022 model) after it was in an accident to use the battery for home storage.
Yes, the way I see it is if BYD are willing to make it this hard to replace a cell they must have plenty of confidence the pack will outlast its warranty without issue
Thanks for your Video Brendon
This shows that these Battery pack is not Serviceable, Ev Cars are Disposable
I agree but that's not an EV thing, It's a new car thing.
@@Brendon_Mjust asking, do you think that we have similar costs to replace an ev battery VS an ICE engine? Thanks for the video.
I think the costs aren't too different. But it definitely depends on the models
Brendon, have you had any issues with the heating and cooling? It did not appear from the video that you connected up the liquid cooling system, is that unnecessary? Are there any regulatory issues connecting a battery of this size to the grin in WA? thx Bill K
No cooling/heating and so far I don't think I need it. It would be nice to have but overkill. The thermal mass of the battery seems to be more than enough to keep the temps in check. The most I ever pull out or put in to the battery is 5kW and it's designed for over 150kW. Ambient heat in the middle of summer pushes the temp up but is in a coolish area of my house and hasn't been a problem. If I get a string of hot days I might put a fan on it if the temps get to high.
I have actually had some over heating in the inverter, it only has some cooling fins and pushing 5kW continuously for hours on end causes it to overheat and de-rate. I installed a fan and that seemed to cure that issue.
No regulatory issues other than the inverter had to be less than 5kW (I'm on single phase), as long as the sparky was happy and he didn't seem to care
@@Brendon_M thanks for taking the time to reply. I am in Qld on the Southeast Darling Downs, summer is hot. My system is currently at 30 kW of solar panels and delivers 3 phase. I intend to use the battery, as is, paired with a Goodwe ET series hybrid inverter and all going well connect a second battery in parallel. I am powering a recirculation aquaculture project. It draws about 6-7kW, 24 hours per day. I will go to the trouble of connecting the liquid cooling system to a radiator and fan. I will let you know how it goes. regards Bill K
The battery isn't liquid cooled. It's a refrigerant loop. You might be able to push coolant through the channels but they are very small. If you are using the battery as a whole (good choice btw) then, if you haven't already, have a look at Dala's EV repair RUclips channel.
@@Brendon_M Interesting, the vehicle I dismantled was so extensively damaged in the front end it was impossible to follow all the coolant lines. I have been unable to find a workshop manual for this vehicle, were you able to access one? I have seen some of Dala's videos, I will have another look. thx Bill K
There're some BYD manuals available on GitHub but they are all in Chinese that's all I've seen available
The level of repairability is exceptionally low on this battery....wow....
This shows that it will be impossible to repair any module of this battery unlike the tesla or Nissan leaf.
Baterai BYD dibuat begitu aman, bahkan dari para diyer😅.
Ripper video Brendon; thanks. A rude question but may I ask how much you paid for the damaged Atto 3?
Thanks. By the time it was delivered to my door with all the transport and auction fees it cost me AUD$11000
@@Brendon_M that seems very reasonable. Congratulations on the work you have done😉👍👏👏👏
Many thanks Brendan; looking forward to the next update!😉@@Brendon_M
Did you consider using it as is in a high voltage inverter battery ?
Yes and no. This battery will be in parallel to my current home storage battery so I'm trapped in keeping the voltage the same as my current system. I did consider upgrading my whole system to be able to run a high voltage but for better or worse I've stuck to this path. I'd be quite interested to find out if the CAN communication used by BYD is the same between their home storage packs and their automotive packs. Very convenient if they do but it won't be me working that out. (At least not at the moment)
Have you discussed any of this with BDY? Are they approachable at all? They must know these battery packs would be desirable. Questions like what glue and can it be disabled? I wonder if they issue any papers on disposing of packs, this might help.@@Brendon_M
Nah, I never spoke to BYD. Probably should have. They're not Tesla so they may have just sold me a pack as a spare part and I could have cut out the whole dealing with the car body bit.
I'd be interested in how BYD dispose/recycle the packs in house but it wouldn't help me now anyway as I'm set on my (no doubt ill-advised) path
@@Brendon_M I was thinking maybe a heat gun could soften the glue sufficiently to ease the cover off, then maybe enable the cells to be separated. Depends a lot on the glue though
You're probably right, heat and a solvent would get the free the cells but you'd still have the issue of the laser welded busbars though.
BYD made batteries but i think they use CATL technology?
hello i have a question,
From your video I can't understand how they keep the cells compact?
also I can't figure out what material is that 2/3 centimeter spssor made of that you see in one of your freeze frame when you lightly lift the cold plate?
congratulations on the work
The cells are just sitting between some aluminium cross braces. I'm guessing they don't swell very much so there is nothing that actually clamps them together.
The "spacer" stuff is some sort of hard adhesive. Presumably it is a thermally conductive layer that takes up all the voids better the cells and cooling plate
I thank you for your reply, it would be interesting to see the placement of the crossbars. In the end and initial part of the pack it seems from your video that there is an end plate, is it still aluminum? @@Brendon_M
Yeah, the cross bars are aluminium and welded into the base plate of the battery pack
Não façam isso em casa desmontar uma simples bateria de célula por causar incêndio e queimaduras profundas. Imaginem uma bateria dessas. No vídeo o responsável sabe e entende os riscos usa equipamentos mínimos de segurança.
Glue ruins everything :) But I guess they do it to make it a structural battery to save weight.
So basically the battery is un-repairable. Seems to me that replacing a piston in an ICE would be easier and cheaper !
I dont know. Last time I contemplated paying a garage to do that was better to buy a used or new engine. Replace one piston whats next?
@@jaaklucas1329 Let me rephrase that. "So basically the battery is un-repairable. Seems to me that replacing the entire engine in an ICE would be easier and cheaper !"
If the cells are glued in then there isn't a repair path so scrap. Basically the value of a used EV is the car minus the cost of a new battery (and installation labour) which probably comes to about a dollar.
@@chrissybabe8568 Yea lm with you. Like to see an easier solution to fix a few cells in this pack. I believe Telsa can refurbish a pack.Mind you, these cars cost so little in China I guess it is what it is...
@@jaaklucas1329 I have 6 close relatives who have bought EV's (incl 2 x BYD, 1 x Tesla). I avoid any conversation that would require me to call them stupid (5 of them have degrees so they certainly aren't stupid). The only thing I can think of is that they must be what are called early adopters who have totally managed to ignore all the downsides of owning an EV including the reasons of why they are NOT ECO friendly.
@@chrissybabe8568 I only know Ebikes which Ive built and are excellent. Like Edison motors knows, an Emotor is way superior to an ICE engine...even if its run on gas like a diesel locomotive.. As far as why ICE engines have to go,try this.Drive your ICE car into your garage, leave it running, close the door and take a seat.You wont last long. Multiply that times billions of ICE engines around the world,thats the problem.
Not easy or intended to be serviced.
Apple would be proud of this battery. Zero repairability.
在中国比亚迪的电池修复是由其4s人员进行的，这些人员都是经过专业培训的。
比亚迪的电池电芯，正常保养下是终身质保的，电控是8年或15万公里质保。
4S的工作人员不会修复电池包，他们只会更换电池包总成，电池包的回收和修复还是要回到他们的生产厂家里
Nice battery pack. Was the wreckage so disturbed and not worth repairing?
Not really but it was classed as a statutory write-off so it could never go back on the road
@@Brendon_M was the price favourable enough for a pack, only. Or you need to recoup from parting the rest out?
I won't be parting the rest out. I already have too many car parts lying around my house so I'm trying to get rid of the rest of the car as a whole.
The car was more than I really wanted to pay but I got carried away with wanting to do another project. It ended up costing me $11000 by the time it was delivered.
Wow. Looks like it's not easy to swap some batteries?
We’re you listening to an audiobook or lecture while you were dismantling the battery? Either that or someone doesn’t stop talking!
LOL! That's my children.
Makes me very concerned how these battery packs would be dealt with when they are end of life. Not only do you have to deal with the power retained but how would they be recycled? Or do they just expect to dump them in a hole in the ground? There should be laws to deal with old batteries, electronics and be able to easily disassemble for recycling. I wont be buying an electrical vehical! Anyhow thanks for making the video and sharing it online, and i think raising questions about are we really helping with saving the planet with electric vehicals?
Even with how difficult this is to disassemble nobody will be throwing them in a hole. It's too valuable as second life storage and when it's not even good for that there's companies like Li-cycle that have set up quite effective shredders that take whole packs in and output the various materials to be reused.
That all being said, I agree there should be systems put in place to ensure ease of recycling.
Look up Ecar battery recycling,brilliant.
Small ding for car to be written off. This also happened to mates $250k BMW. Insurance premiums for EV’s are surely going to go through the roof at some point.
Agreed. Insurance companies are going to have to start repairing EVs or its going to be too expensive to insure to them
I'd love to convert this for use at home or on a boat. Was it easy to get out of the car?
Pretty easy. If you had a hoist and power tools you could do it in 30 min. (Plus degassing the aircon)
would like to see if anyone can test the battery safety like BYD claimed, its a good win for them if its true, less people are phobia of the battery fire issue from EV
Well I haven't burnt my house down yet so that's a good start 😄.
I'm with you though, I'd like to get some BYD cells and torture test them to see if they stand up to BYD's claims
the new Sodium based battery from BYD will be much safer.
Someone did that with a Nissan Leaf module, he did a slightly more torture test as he fully charged the pack then used a screwdriver and pierced the pack multiple times, some smoke came out but no fire he then tested the voltage and current and pack was still working, he then tried to burn the pack and only the glue caught fire again battery module was still working!
how did china so advanced in this technology and the main western and japan car manufacureres kept ignoring it. You have to praise elon musk for his role as well.
Yes, China's car manufacturers are going to take over the world faster than anyone realises unless the rest of the world gets serious about electrification.
Nikkei BP engineers in Japan took apart a BYD seal and Tesla model 3 and they concluded BYD was way ahead in terms of tech and reliability. They could not believe it. They decided to use BYD as their standard guideline to build all future EV in Japan.
I will never buy any chinese products until it's really mature, they love to gamble and I am not gambling my life, Do you think they will bear responsibility if anything goes wrong?
@@shaf3006
Not relevant .. china making more EVs than the whole europ combined. Tesla has a mega-factory in china. The main Euro car makers have joint ventures with them.
Musk is one of the main reasons why EVs still have a negative reputation for some. His Tesla made 'EV' a synonym for being ripped off while the mega-corp used you as an expendable guinea pig for testing new half-finished features, and arrogant drivers who after financing away their life savings to get an EV, had something to prove and felt better than other people.
18 confirmed fatalities due to releasing the broken beta software of 'Autopilot' in the US alone. And the Tesla driver eternally hogging the middle or passing lane while napping or using their phone, trusting their life and death to the corporate overlord is an annoyingly common sight these days.
Heck, was at the police station 3 weeks ago to make a report. Tesla driver lanehogged for 15+ kilometers straight, then did the typical thing when I undertook, instantly went ballistic, tried to push me off the road, then tried to pull me out of my car at the next traffic light. Considered getting out, couple rounds roadside boxing with some Tesla cultist in his late 40's is probably going to end up favouring me. Light turned green, so I went, an Audi driver put himself in front of the micropenis Tesla guy and blocked him from speeding after me, so that was that. Police can do with the report as they see fit.
On a related note: I can confirm BYD makes car windows stronger than the average Tesla driver. 😆
But those are the sorts of people who set the image of Tesla, and with that to a large extent: The image of the early EV and its driver. It was either that or the hippies slowly driving Priuses.
Good cost cut value if you could do the job as fast as you are showing it on this video. YES
This is just, awesome !! 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Are the cells in one single string?
And how many cells are there (ie, what is open circuit voltage of the whole pack)?
THX!
Yes, there are 126 LiFePO4 cells in series. Total pack voltage is 403V nominal
So they make this hard, no one can repair it by itself?
Pretty much
@Brendon_M can you tell the part number of the main chip used on these boards?, looks like its a 64pin IC chip.
I'll have a closer look when I next get a chance. There's probably a close up in the P2 video but I can't remember for sure...
No numbers on them but yes; they are 64 pin ICs
@@Brendon_M hmm, looking at the BMS board (the current sensing side), it looks like there are two ICs redundant to each other, performing the current sensing and HV measurements. This architecture looks similar to NXP (refer to RD-HVBMSCT800BUN)
Had a close look at the chip under a microscope and there are numbers
Main board is -
Infineon
Tricore
SAK-TC234L-
32F200N AC
84PRT6835US
G2238
© Infineon '13
The other boards are
BYD
BF8815A
And another 4 digit number which there were a few variants
u2Qa
B2R5
B20d
U205
B2P5
@@Brendon_M Hmm, which means the Main board contains Infineon's TC234L32F200NACKXUMA1 processor (used widely for automotive safety compliance), while the chips on the Battery sensing boards are still unclear. Lets see if we could reverse engineer more.
Det må kunne laves enklere ??🇩🇰
ุ้ถ้าถ่านหินนำไปผลิตภัณฑ์แบตเตอรี่ใด้ ใครมีเหมืองน่าจะไม่อยากจน
Why burn coal? Solar is cheaper.
Can this battery be handled like this? Is there not a risk for thermal runway and fire??
There is always a risk but the blade battery is a relatively safe chemistry and I'm qualified to work on EVs so I know what I'm doing
It's LFP so risk is low.
Is this battery integrared to vechicle?
Just bolted in underneath, certainly would help with structure but it's not structural
Is it true that EV's battery have a limited time? 8 years? 10 years?
Not really, they are usually warranted for 8 to 10 years. Hardly going to fail that soon after end of warranty
What much does the battery pack weight?
I haven't weighed it but I think it's about 400-450kg
Imagine you were invited to his home for a cup of tea then he decided to dismantle you 💀
I'd only do that if I could harvest your body for energy storage 😄
@@Brendon_M Arraki trick,drain your fluids!
Hi
Are these Lifepo4 or Li ion cells? I heard you mention 14s in a previous vid so assuming the latter?
They're LiFePO4. I know 14s is a weird number but my current system is 12s of NCMs
@@Brendon_M I guess as long as your inverter can work with the voltage range it doesn't really matter.
How about a stronger tape like gorilla tape or trex. Bunnings has some pretty heavy duty tapes which may be better for you.
Interesting project!
👍👍