Black in Paris - It's Different than Being Black in the States
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- Опубликовано: 18 апр 2018
- Paris is a diverse city. But what's it like to be Black in Paris? Black travel here in France is a bit different than other countries. And that means no head nod here...
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If you liked this video, check out my chat with Kisaruni who is a Black man and was raised in Berlin Germany. He gives great insight on the silent and sometimes passive aggressive racism he faced growing up in Europe. Plus he discusses if Europeans are really as color-blind as they claim..
ruclips.net/video/7YYnunj-OMM/видео.html
I think you should talk about this subject with black French people though.
I agree, but still interesting cause this lady can speak from both perspectives
majority of french people don't have a clue about what it's like to live abroad... so they can't compare.
But isn’t the girl at the right a french girl ?
@@shou_191 As stated, she has been living in France for 5 years total ( 1 year in Paris, 4 years outside Paris )
Jazz Nes that is very false, we travel a lot
America is totally ridiculously obsessed by race. No other place has this obsession to the same level.
Maybe not, but each country has an obsession. France for exemple, is going absolutely mad about the veil, weared by muslim women. They've been talking about it in news for mounths, and treat it like a big issue.
The entire USA history is built on race. There was natives first then they got yeeted by white. Most of the 18th, 19th century history classes is heavy on slavery.
The entire country is built on racial differences premises
Bakary Dembélé , say that to yourself 50 times and it will become true. How ironic that you bring THAT up on this outline. YOU are the reason racism is still in place - YOU are the racist.
@@audreyn.9394 Well, the issue with it is that it hides the identity and truthfully allows also to hide extremism. Yes, Islam and Islamist extremism are not same, and good Muslims shouldn't suffer because of few wrong doers.. but fact is that it is difficult to protect ourselves from the extremism and one of the ways to make it just even little bit easier, is if we can identify people and see that they don't have weapons. Yes, it is part of their culture and honestly no one wants to discriminate against it, but for pragmatical reasons, they have to do some sacrifices if they want to co-exist in European nations and in this culture space here.
no america addresses colorism and racism that occurs throughout the world and in the usa while you other countries try to pretend it doesn’t exist. it’s wrong and disgusting
Hey, I’m mixed and french, I think most people of colour in france don’t identify as black and more as french because we do a difference between nationality and ethnicity and when people ask us where we from we think more of what country are we living in and not where our parents or ancestors came from
But we still are proud of our ethnicity and our skin colour
I guess most french people doesn’t care about skin colour because seing people of colour in the street is something so usual and we don’t do a difference between people
Agree.We don't identify people and ourself as skin colored. It's a very American thing as I can read. The americans look like very communitarian with ethnicity/gender/weight… It's very strange for me. The issue is that divided people who complaining about false "xxx" privilèges instead of growing together stronger as one people.I hope this will not arrive in France.
@@jejelerider3278 as someone who grew up in France and moved to North America for university, this was a big culture shock for me. After only about two months of living here I realised, I'd never considered other people's races so much before. People here will tell me it's good that they acknowledging people's cultural backgrounds, but like the video said, in France people don't really identify themselves by their races. It's a part of who you are yes, it's your family, but it's not the first thing you want the world to notice when they see you. It's reserved for closer friends.
As a French person, it seems so counterintuitive to want someone to group you with other people of your race. It's very easy to form stereotypes about groups of people when you link them all together in your head.
Ultimately what people prefer seems to be what they were brought up with, so I'm not sure if one method is objectively better than the other. But I like that the video shone a light on both perspectives, cause many people I talk to in North America dismiss the French mentality as intolerant
"Hey, I’m mixed and french, I think most people of colour in france don’t identify as black and more as french" It might be the case for biracials but not for black and brown folk. I never heard a black person in France say "I'm not black I french", and you know it. Ne raconte pas n'importe quoi hein
liinesiom je me suis peux être mal exprimée pcq je parle pas couramment anglais mais c’est pas ce que je voulais dire, Biensur que les noirs ne disent pas « non je suis pas noir je suis français » j’ai jamais voulu faire passer cette idée
Je disais simplement que la plupart des français qui ont des origines se disent français pcq c’est le pays dans lequel ils vivent etc
Je suis peut être métisse mais ça ne m’exclue pas de connaître ce que c’est d’être une personne de couleur
Être métisse ce n’est pas être ni noire ni blanche c’est être les deux donc je me sens autant noire que blanche
@@juliehouyengah657 t'es une "personne de couleur" beaucoup plus acceptée par la société. Et dans l'emploi que dans l'habitat etc. Nous on est noirs. C'est pas du tout mais alors pas du tout comparable 😅 Et l'autre blanc dans le thread complètement déconnecté de la réalité que les noirs vivent en France.... Lol
Americans open their eyes when they leave America.
🤣🤣🤣
They do???
that's the same for all the countries.
When you never leave the country where you're born, there are things which are normal for you.
But when do you leave and live in another country, you become another point of view about your country, your traditions etc.
What isn't for Americans only
@@artemisvii2280 Pretty sure most Americans DO NOT open their eyes.
How do they dare ask for money contibutions????????? BORING!!
When you mention the "colorblind" thing, I think you misunderstood. In France we don't claim to be colorblind ourselves. Racism does exist and nobody can deny that. The real idea is that the French République is colorblind, and considers each citizen equally. That difference changes everything
Good clarification :)
france is no longer french..it is now a muslim country
brown buter you talk about things you don't know, you're uneducated and racist. Take a long nap and stop using internet for a while
@@jmlepunk *SHOW ME YOUR CREDENTIALS* _I DONT TAKE ADVICE FROM STREET PERFORMERS_
Good analysis. My franco-vietnamese friends always identify as french. They might hear extremely annoying stereotypes from people around them, but it seems more superficial, although possibly more common than here. I've always been identified (and I've grown to accept myself) as korean-american, never an american (always a "hyphenated american"). I also used to be irked by laïcité in france when i was younger, but as an adult, i wholeheartedly see the merit in it to ensure as little penetration of religion into the law as possible, which is unfortunately much too common here in the us...
The woman on the left is in France and somehow expects to be greeted in English? 😂😂😂😂
Because to her it's obvious she's a foreigner
@4chan memes Did you have problems with geography in school ?
@4chan memes You said France is African land (or "Afrika Land"), therefore making it part of Africa... which it's not.
The majority of French people don't know a single dialect from that continent. They don't even know what's going on in most countries.
So why post such a comment ? It's ridiculously false.
@4chan memes Just answer the damn question. Why did you say it's part of Africa when you most certainly know French people contributed to colonize this continent ?
@4chan memes First : France isn't Africa. Just because there's black people in France doesn't mean France changed.
And how can you say that colonization was a gift ? I'm sorry to say that you just seem to be a troll, because slavery, massacres and rape aren't exactly what I'd call "a gift".
And low I.Q ? Yeah there may be some people who are uneducated because of the bad systems in place, especially for girls.
But I bet you and I couldn't handle a single week in their lives.
1. Americans are too obcessed with race;
2. People never greet anyone in English in France;
3. Paris IS like New York. Metropolitan mentality.
I am Asian and people sometimes speak English to me in France. The same thing will never happen to White or Black. There's nothing bad about it, just people tend to think Asians are tourists and it is quite true that most Asians are tourists.
it’s cause they despise english people lol some things happened long ago
well I do say yo sometimes does that count XD
that is what CNN told them to do
France isn't obsessed?
Really?
Wasn't France the country where they established racial countries? The country where every time we talk about racism people think it means being against white people? The country where there are races but no one wants to admit it?
I think in France the skin colour doesn’t matter. What matters is the culture. If you don’t adopt the french culture in France, people will reject you.
EXACTLY
I agree.
I do not agree with you, the pretext of the culture is the racists argument, because when you want to rent an apartment, and the owner refuses, it is because you are a Black or an Arab; when you send 200 CVs and you do not get an appointment for a job interview it's because the employer is racist and not because you do not adopt French culture
+But they copy everything from America rap etc
Orla Rusl 🙄
In most European countries doing a census on race would be considered as racist. In most languages using the word "race" is considered racist.
we do have them in the UK
Racism is liking or dislike someone simply because of their race. In other words Europeans are retarded.
@@readhistory2023 For a huge part of french people, races doesn't exist. The word "race" is only used by 60+ years old and extremist that want to denigrate multiculturalism.
@@maximesimon4731 i think it's a linguistic thing where in French, "race" is more used in a biological way. When using the word race in terms of humans, we say "the human race." So if you start saying ppl are part of a different race because of skin color, you're implying they are not part of the "human race." Which was a very common thought to justify slavery and colonialism. Nowadays, it's not at all an accepted use of the term because it has such a strong direct relationship with how enslaved people were treated, and while it's undeniable that racism is still very much a thing, at the very least i would hope people don't support slavery.
@@readhistory2023 Racism is assuming that character, values, talents, opinions, lifestyle... are somehow tied to the color of your skin or the form of your eyes. Definig races and counting people based on made up criteria is silly. Like counting all people whose second toe is longer than the first or those who have freckles or dividing people by height.
Mercedes drivers or cancer survivors have more in common than people with black skin. Racism is really defeated when you stop percieving those differences.
Lol "I'm black, you're black, we're black in Beverly Hills"
haha that's how it was!
@@romanlillie Are you something else than black first ? I'm french, and i'm shocked to hear that.
It's like your skin color is your identity first. I really don't understand...
I really don't...
In France, you're french or you're not. Period.
We don't talk about ppl as Black French, Indian French, Asian French ...
You get the same opportunities, everybody is equal.
And btw, it's illegal in France to have statistics on ethnicities, religion etc...
You will never see a form to fill in where you would have to check a box to say if you're black, indian or else...
Woman, Man. Under 18 or above 18 aaaaaaaaaaand that's it !
@@SuperBeefz You have to speak with the white people who invented it. It's not something we chose for ourselves. We are TOLD we are black in everything we do. When ONE black person does something they ALWAYS impune all black people. Trust me. WE want to be free to just exist as "americans".. Fun fact: "Real American" is a coded term for "white american" so they have made it clear that they don't want the system you all have where every citizen is a full citizen. It's a shame too and THAT'S why these ladies were searching for the perfect city.
@@germyw Jesus Christ !
Every morning, i bet that you wake up thinking "i'm black in a white world"
Just wake up thinking, i'm me and that's all. You'll see how much you can change things just by beeing yourself.
Don't pretend all black ppl on earth care about beeing black like you do ...
You're not different than everyone else.
Stop thinking as a victim, you're not a victim at all.
YOU DIDNT EVEN LIVE DURING JIM CROW S LAWS
YOU HAD A BLACK PRESIDENT FOR 8 YEARS
IT S TIME TO STOP
I'm white ( french white living in the states for 30 years ) and totally get that ...
Black is just a color.
Culture and language are the real way of connections between human beings.
ok - says you. but, unfortunately, your personal definition is not universal. so the rest of us have to deal with the MAJORITY of people who don't think like that. And anyway - just because that's someone's "public" view of race, doesn't mean that's their real view or that the laws of the land support that view. People often preach what they don't really believe and don't intend to practice.
@ferkemall well it's not the same deal, people choose to be islam believer ...
People who where born black didn't choose it
Noble Guerrier yeah whiteness & blackness was created to benefit landowning pale european people
Michael Callewaert some people are born into Islam and Arab culture which can be very intertwined
@@WordsofHarmony its still possible to decide, its still a choice even if it's a social preasured one
You can't change your color by your own will
I’m African European (full black) born in France but I now leave in Dallas U.S for study I’ve been living here for 6 years and I haven’t felt more aware of my skin color. In America) I sometimes feel Inconfortable when I’m somewhere full of white people and it is sad because in France all I knew was “we are all French” and I do miss this. Now one thing I saw in America is that people divide black people as categories for instance some will say I’m lighter and refer other as really light or darker and that’s crazy because black is black to me.
I'm a Frenchman and my African origins (Ivory Coast, Senegal, Ghana) aren't brought up that much.
@9 Lives And Counting that's a true point about us black Americans. Have you ever consider the why factor of that cultural trait though? As you probably know racism is embedded in our government and in society. We face it in every day life, whethere it be being followed in the store, or not listened to in a prodimently white work space. I think that's why we talk about it all the time because it truly follows is every where we go with everything we do.
9 Lives And Counting - they’re brainwashed, yes the awful history explains why they’re so obsessed with race, but at some point you need reconciliation and you need to move forward. The worst thing is they think they have the right to tell you how ethnic-relations/race-relations are in our country when they’ve never been there, and know nothing about the history, cukture, politics of our country, and when they disregard actual ethnic minority’s experiences from our country - it’s very entitled of them to say the least.
I’ve come across so many US-Americans who see race before they see a person they’re interacting with, honestly it’s quite jarring as an English/British mixed person. I’ve learned to limit my interaction with US-Americans online, and i recommend all other non-yanks to do the same, they’re not going to learn nor change matter how much you tell them they’re crazily race-obsessed...better we distance ourselves for our sanity.
9 Lives And Counting - ooh also, welcome home lad/lass :^)
9 Lives And Counting Obsessed? Really ? U forget to think about slavery occurring in America?Race is always gonna be an issue.People r not gonna stop talking about the way they r being treated or were treated as long as they exist .Its human nature.There is a history for Americans obsession with race cause the past is always a constant reminder.American blacks r more woke than any other blacks in the world because of slavery,civil rights era woke them up ,u see young Blackmen being murdered by police at an alarming rate , racial injustice,Jim crow laws ,hello where r u ,shd I go on , they fought for u to be anywhere u want when u r I America and is still fighting ,I have been in Europe several times and I see what ur talking about ,there’s racism in Europe ,look at how Africans r being treated ,France is horrible, I have a couple friends who sat in a restatement for hrs in France and were never served ,they had to leave,don’t think because they smile at u because they like u ,don’t be ignorant ,ur way of thinking slows u down ,stay woke
@@yaadapaah7851
You have a very American centered vision.
Slavery existed also in the Caribbean, Brazil and many other Latin American countries. You are not the only one who fought for your rights. Even if every country has its own history.
What people are trying to explain to you, Americans, is that the level of racism and division you have in your country is not as wide-spread elsewhere as you may think. But unless you have lived in France for instance, you can't notice the difference. No country is a paradise, for sure. But there are plenty of testimonies on the internet (here in RUclips in particular) that can open your eyes.
Research "Blacks in Japan" videos and you will see them telling other Blacks outside of the Rising sun country : yes there is xenophobia in Japan but it is not as unbearable as it is in the US.
When you mention the thing about french secretly loving americans, in fact we generally see USA in two ways :
- On the positive side, we appreciate american natural and cultural heritage (diversity of landscapes, movies, music...).
- On the other side, we're not attracted by your society, by the "american dream" that is absolutely not a dream for a french person : hyper liberal society (edit: wrong words probably, I was rather referring to the liberal economy and to the place of individual freedom in the United States which is put above everything, at the expense of solidarity), lack of rights (edit: meant social rights and labor law), no social security (edit: right word seems to be welfare), no consumer protection, the exorbitant cost of university studies, communitarianism...
For all these reasons, I think most french people would really love to visit USA but not live in there. ^^
And about americans being too friendly, it's true that we see that as fake, but also true that we appreciate people that bring optimism because we are sorely lacking in that haha! If this can shed some light on our lack of optimism: the French learn very early to be critical, they always try to nuance things, as if we were constantly doing a dissertation for school. We are so used to thinking in thesis/antithesis! It's great to be critical, but all the time it can be depressing! ^^
Edit :
The idea of my comment was to try to dress up a bit the general portait that a lot of French people seem to have. OF COURSE I am not speaking on behalf of the 67 million French people... nor do I pretend to tell the absolute truth about USA/Americans. And if you think I focused too much on the negative aspects of USA, you are certainly right, I'm sorry it's probably my French side haha
You nailed it in your comment !
@milou80 There seems to be some unfairness but... it's better this way for the majority. But some mecanisms of the system is debatable of course. Now of course, if you're preaching for an american system put into France, that's a hard stop.
@milou80 That true but not for everyone, that true if you one a be a big one. If you want to pursue the "American dream" being big in France is hard but juste being is pretty easy when you think about what it is in America. I don't say that France is the best but if whe want we can find ways to live without having to work like crazy for nothing.
@milou80 Everyone, even you (if you are French) had free basic dental care. All French people have social security. If you work or if you are an entrepreneur, since you pay a membership fee, you can go to the dentist (to descale teeth, for example) every week if you want. You will not pay anything.
There are plenty of successful entrepreneurs in France despite taxes. Your difficulties have another reason.
No offense, but what do you mean America has a "lack of rights"? I feel like we have a lot more abilities to do things other countries don't.
I've never been to France but I've been living in Germany for the last four years. It's a big difference. Only the US is caught up with the color of someone's skin. I always expect that racism to come but it never does. I've never been followed in the stores when shopping, stopped by the police because I was walking down the street or stopped while driving. It makes living so easy.
L. Depriest E The foundation of America was built on differences of skin tone. The in group barring the out group from human rights. The belief in “race” is simply a worldview, and racism (which gave rise to “races” is simply an exploitation system of the in group always classifying the out group for social, political, and economic gain. So called black people are really the creation/invention of Western European enslavers, the original white supremacists. As a poster stated elsewhere, black people are the illegitimate “children” of the people who classify themselves as “white.”
Is germany better than the usa in terms of the racism u experince then?
I'm in France for the first time in my life. I don't want to go back to the USA. There is a massive difference. i wish i could move everyone I care about out of the RED states.
Glad to hear that you're feeling safe!
I've heard stories like that - 'driving while black', young black men being charged with jay-walking and other crimes more than anybody else, ... - again and again, and it sounds low-key nightmarish. I'm worried what it does to millions of US-Americans to live with that constantly ... but then again, what with potential costs of accidents/sickness, student loans / student debt, the possibility of public shootings and so on, I wonder wether background fear isn't more normal than not.
(Sorry, don't mean to sound disparaging.)
You seriously think "Only the US is caught up with the color of someone's skin"? Only the US? I would say this is an issue in many countries on multiple continents.
French people are very nice and they know how to embrace diversity
i'm an arab muslim woman living here and i believe i'm blessed
every one in my entourage shows me respect and it is mutual i do love people and respect them
As a French, I'm sorry but I desagree with what your saying around 9:30 .
We French don't secretly love American, don't take it personally, but this way of thinking you have really tends to make us feel like American are most of the time way too full of themselves.
french here too, i both agree and disagree.
your country is a sorry mess, you have many cultural traits that we consider fucked up, you keep doing stupid shit on the world stage because you elect morons (Georges W bush and his "axis of evil" send 20 year of diplomatic efforts with N.korea to the trash... ) but at the end of the day ? like most other western country you're basically family and we love you. a nice but slightly dumb cousin of sorts ^_^
@@Lapantouflemagic0 That is really funny, and so true. I'm an old American, and I hate to agree with you. Right now, George W. Bush is looking pretty good, eh?!
Of course the French don't secretly love America, they actually loathe them, think they're tacky, vulgar and idiotic. Right now they're pushing back against the cancel culture. Secretly they know that America's doomed, and just want to keep its toxic culture at bay-more power to them, they're masters at the art of living-best art, best music, cooking, movies, comedies, wine and most beautiful cities, and most beautiful women What's not to love? Pack your bags. America? What a joke! Any country that has to pat itself on the back and tell itself all day long that it's the greatest country that God ever gave to mankind has got some serious subconscious guilt complexes
Very true! 😂 I thought the same "No they really don't..." 🤣
I think because a few people said something positive she now thinks that the French like America in secret when actually there are just very few people who have some positive ideas of the U.S. 😬
@@veritastriumphantchurch776 That last sentence! Yess!!!
I was born in West Africa (Liberia) raised in the USA (California) currently live in Asia (Vietnam) and will be moving to France in the future 😀
Oh cool! Let me know if/when you make it to Paris. I would love to get your opinion on it.
don't. im french i love my country but i want to move to switzerland cause the quality of work, life, health care, democracy and just life is decreasing since years
Black Frenchman living in America here. When I arrived in the US I was chocked at the level of segregation in society. Essentially people of color walk in groups of blacks w blacks, whites w whites, etc. but very rarely together like you see in Paris. Anytime I had a white friend introducing me to someone it was to a black woman, as if it was expected that you stick with people of your own skin color and I often laugh about it a lot. That time when I entered a black club with a white lady friend, she was receiving so many stares that we did not last 20 minutes inside and left. Unfortunately, people of color in the US come to perceive that kind of segregation enforced on both sides as normality and when they travel abroad they unconsciously expect the same level segregation and try to explain it in so many different ways if they don't see it i.e. black Frenchmen trying to improve their Frenchness by dating white was an hilarious example in the video. The great many interracial couples you see in Paris is simply the result of much less discrimination in society, simply put there is 9 white women for every 1 black woman that I meet and it would take a serious concerted discriminatory effort on my part to date only black. I keep my son in Paris because raising him in the US would absolutely destroy his confidence and he might end up believing that the world hates him.
Wonderful comment and good for your son 👏🏼
Wow that's an interesting point and so true
Sad but true hopefully more women from the states live abroad so you can have a variety to choose from brotha.
Yea see I should of been born in france 😂 being born in usa teaches you do be segregated its disgusting
I always see my brown uk man and white uk man like brothers you can sense the purity in the heart in usa it’s almost always ulterior motives 🤦🏽♂️ bunch of snakes bite your back
There are exceptions but like 30%
😮
In french schools kids learn that their is no "races", only humans. Talking about race is seen are racist, for us, an other human race than us would be the Australopithecus fo example. For us race is a much bigger word. And we never use it for humans unless your an "very old racist person". It would be like using the word negro...! We only talk about ethnicity for humans
"very old racist person" made me laugh
For context ( for non french out there ):
In french, the word 'race' basicly means 'breed', so talking about 'black race', 'white race' and what not, actually makes you talking about different 'breed' of humans.
Which, let's face it, sounds 2000% racist
Meanwhile French neocolonialism is still in Africa....
@@GAZAMAN93X is it what we are talking about?
@@SuperLn1991 there is no true equality in France. *"You're only French when they want you to be"* is what many French people of African descent say. Y'all don't give a shit about Africans until they do something y'all can benefit from then all of a sudden he's not French but God forbid if he fails then he's just another migrant
3:26 "btw, people never greet me in English!". Why on Earth would they?! Do you walk around with 'US citizen' written across your forehead?
secondlastnameleft I thought people claim they can always tell who is American. You know what she meant.
In a way they/we do....I've lived in Europe for about 15 years, and I can usually spot an American comin' from miles away. The way they carry themselves, the way they dress...
Even if the French knew she is American, she is in France SHE has to speak French. At least the basics: "bonjour", "pardon", "excusez moi".
@@bellycurious And if she doesn't pronounce it correctly, she will get death-stares...
@@kayaslytherin940, that's not my experience.
I don't normally comment on RUclips, but I just wanted to tell you that your channel is great, and this video was so educational. I really appreciated hearing both of your thoughts!
Oh yay! Thank you xoxo
I am french and white. When I see "black french", I see them 1/as french people 2/ then the country their family came from. Plus we have Guadeloupe, martinique which are french. I dont think "black french" as in US you talk about "black american". 🤷♂️
I dont make a différence between black or white american citizens. I see US citizens first...
I was shocked that in the forms in US, they ask my ethnicity. It is forbidden in France to ask. As you said, no stat whatsoever. When you are mixed, which box are you supposed to check???
When you're mixed you check both boxes or you check "other" race.
I’m reading this like a French person.. Also, nice avatar.
I am actually in California. And I am so agree. Now people ask me what I am now. And I am like what is this question really for? So may be because of my accent so I say I am French. Thay are very often like « oh french really ? French mixed with what? » So I always misunderstood with where I am from. But I think they don’t really understand that French is mainly a nationality. You can be french caucasian, franch asian, french black... Americans care more about race which doesn’t make any sense nowadays. So many people are mixed now how to identify to one « race » or origin or to quantify each of them since they really care about the « pourcentage of race ».
I am black with French nationality. I want to be seen as a person first and foremost. Not whether French or not French. I define myself as I see fit. Racism in France is institutional.
My child is mixed raced and identifies himself as multi cultural as he is able to embrace his New Zealand Jewish French African (3 countries).
There needs to be better understanding of identity, acceptance and values that are not yours. Then we can understand the concept of equality. Anyway good debate!
@Vassili Petrovitch Hi there
Institutional racism does not mean that the institutions are racist. Thanks for contributing
I definitely disagree being in a mixed couple myself. We each have learned from each other's culture and we love sharing. I think that French who are tolerant love learning about other cultures in general. That is even more true in Paris.
Moreover, I am with him because we are in love and not to secure my Frenchness whatever you think that means.
I became French long before I met him. And here, what is most important to be seen as "intergrated" in French society is to show an interest in French culture.
I think you should have asked a local black person to sit and share his or her experience to have another perspective. I beleive that each of your opinions are very subjective and that some balance should exist
This part of the conversation made me feel weird as well
True, being in a couple with a white person is not obligatory to "secure some Frenchness." that's so weird 🤢 it makes me wonder,
do they know about love being the main factor to people wish to entering a relationship with someone ?
That is such a French thing to say (meant in the most beautiful way possible). It's what I love about France and especially Paris, difference is seen as a beautiful thing, something that you can learn from... I grew up and went to school in an international school and Loooooved when we had our national days, sharing what was special about English speaking countries, the English section was filled with many different nationalities from all around the world, as was the Spanish and Portuguese sections, not so much the German one as they haven't colonised other countries so much... Nor the Italian section. Eating foods that came from another culture was such a pleasure! And understanding why someone did this or that, not because they did it intentionally but because they had been taught to do it/it was in their culture... We're all the same...
Anyway, it was a wonderful thing to grow up in such an open and tolerant world and to be able to see beauty first then difference as something else.
I visited Paris back in the year 2000. I remember I was surprised to see so many African French folks. I remember walking around near the Pompidou Center and all the sudden theses African dudes came out with mics and started rapping in French near a street café. It was probably one of the most awesome experiences ever. I got into French rappers MC Solaar etc. soon after! Qui seme Le vent, ricolte Le tempo! Bouge de La!
Very interesting video. I'm moving to France this year and was looking for insight for my new home. I'm glad I found your channel.
Bon.. les français(e) si vous passer par là ! Coucou
I feel sorry for you. You are probably ashamed that you only speak one language :(
Bonjour!
@ferkemall Just learn French.
Salut Julie 😅
Slt Juju !😍
“They work to Live not live to work”
Love France 🇫🇷
Your spoke in a very realistic manner. I enjoyed listening to both of you smart ladies. Everything you and her discussed made so much sense. I enjoyed the video so much. Stay blessed dear 🙏
Thakn you!
This was a very eye-opening conversation. Thank you so much to both of you for making this video.
I'm French and i think it's in our mindset, in the US you have a multicultural model, so you talk about "communities" for Black, whites, latinos. In France, the republic states that there is no community but the national community and citizens equal before the law of the republic, which means basically we don't care your colour as long as you respect the principles and the culture of the French republic.
African nations espousing it were born out of the 1884 Berlin Conference and African nationalist leaders were the products of colonial schools and European universities, African nationalism was still cast as the antidote to colonialism rather than an outgrowth of it.
The Constitution also says nothing about 'communities.' People have created these communities by grouping together. The Chinese do it, the blacks do it and the hispanics do it. In NY the Puerto Ricans also do it.
@@caciliawhy5195 Yes i really don't understand this idea of communautarism in the US, it's the exact opposite of integration...
I am an American who spent a year teaching in Morocco, where I became friends with a French family. You say the republic says "there is no community" and yet in this family the wife (who was Parisian) kept belittling her husband's accent (who was from Marseilles, and I couldn't tell the difference) and both of them made fun of our priest who was from Normandie, but I couldn't tell whether it was because of his accent or that he was a peasant (I think they meant 'farmer'--but he was a priest) or a bit of both. My point being, color is one reason for bigotry, but only the racist kind.
every one is the same... but the "pale" ones are all on top with privilege by coincidence????? more like hypocrisy to me... Canada usa and London are multicultural . and have vribrant and strong cultures that influence the world for that reason.
Very interesting perspective ladies. Thank you for the insight!
I absolutely love how Kim just casually comes out with answers that are so lucid and well-structured that you might as well print them right away.
Very interesting talk.
This is one of the best discussions on any topic I've heard in a long time, and the first discussion on this topic ever. Your insights just keep getting deeper every minute. Bravo!
Love this video. Extremely helpful ♥️♥️ thank you
So happy to hear this ☺
This video is SO interesting! Great insights, gotta share this. (French pov btw)
You hit the nail right on the head. I have been living in the States for many years and I have been trying to explain people that I am French but they want to put me in a box. I am not black I am mixed and I have to respect both of my roots ( Chinese) but overall I am French. I am married to a white person and do not think he is white when I wake up in the morning. But in the States people bring it to your attention ( specially black people) which I find so interesting. They think you deny your past but if you want to move forward you cannot keep complaining about what happened in the past, this does not mean forgetting what happened.
And thats why the US will never fix the race issue.. so unhealthy to think in boxes.
Very wise comment 👏🏼
We've been born into it in the states no fault of our own. When we ask you this it's because you need to know this is how the states see you period. It doesn't matter where you're from it's how it is here. All about how close to black you are on how you will be viewed and treated. I don't think we should forget our past but agree we should definitely move on. We complain when the past keeps happening in the present. Keep living in the states you will see because they will let you know where you stand.
Please pay attention to the politics and economics in America. Racism is what Donald Trump and that party is based on. We have also have excessive violence and guns. Blacks and whites in America have been conditioned to live in hostile environments and no one is doing anything to stop it. It's much deeper than you think.
Just FYI, in France asking a black person or any minority where he/she's from is kinda rude so don't do it to someone you don't know. Even if you're black yourself people will look at you funny and it may feel awkward.
That's because racists in France, most often, will never target blacks directly, instead they'll put into question your french heritage, saying "but you're not really french".
Don't worry to much though it's not the end if you did or if you do it
just know that you're dealing with a hot button issue and be careful about what you actually say.
PS: You're right we actually love Americans even the British we love them, it's just we love to make fun of you that much more and as we say "qui aime bien châtie bien", "who loves well, bullies well".
Wow that's so interesting. I had no idea that is an offensive question in France. Good to know!
more than the question itself, it's assuming he/she isn't french that can be considered offensive.
If it's a friend he probably won't make a fuss if you ask about his ancestry and he probably will spill the beans before that.
Again he's not denying his heritage, he's just protective of his french identity.
it is !!!!
I mean it is perceived as offensive. I hate when people ask where I am from. I am just French. and millions of French from foreign descent feel the same.
this being said, id the question comes from a tourist or exchange student, I guess nobody would get offended
@@mahf_mahf, I don't think is an offensive question. I often ask "where do you come from, what are your origins, your roots ?", to white, black, asian, arab people I meet. It's not an offensive question to me.
Hi, ladies, Thank you for your video! I am a Black American descendant of enslaved Africans (DOS). Though I have lived in Madrid, London, I lived 12 years in Germany; Berlin and Hamburg. As a Black American DOS abroad, I immediately understood that there was a difference between self-identity and perception. During the time that I spent in Europe, I tried to parse these two concepts in terms of being Black and identifying in international contexts as well as within the diaspora.
Now that I am back in the USA and exploring the political position of Blackness here, I have begun to understand is that Black American DOSs' primary context for viewing themselves is through the lens of white supremacy. This does not seem to be the case for Black Africans, who, represent the majority in their homelands. Their self-identity is one of ethnicity and not of color or race. This is then complicated "outside" of their and our "home" contexts, particularly in Europe, no doubt in part due to its colonial history.
There was a book I once found in the Finland institute in Berlin which discussed multicultural models in Germany, France and Great Britain. Briefly, it was described so: Germany does not see itself as a multicultural society, so the issue tends to be ignored in that foreigners as expected to return home. Germany identity is understood as something very specific and not attainable through naturalization. France was described much as your experience in that everyone was considered French and expected to adopt French culture and identity. In Great Britain, however, one was able to be at once British and maintain one's ethnic identity.
Again, I think this is all very much complicated from the Black American DOS perspective. It also serves to underscore just how unique we are as an ethnic group of our own.
Big Mike's Big World makes me glad I am not black. You guys whine too much about your blackness issues. But you won't go to live in africa.
But you have white ancestors too, it’s in your genes...
What’s the name of the book that contained those studies if you don’t mind me asking?
Excellent, Pedro!
Thank you for the correction. I see you have your pulse correctly on the vein of history.
Namaste!
Nicole, are you addressing me or Pedro concerning the literature?
We aren't embarassed at all with secretly loving America. We're admired your culture but remain totally eyes wild-opened on not falling too much for it. After all French loves French first ;)
I believe the differences stem from American slavery, segregation, the need for a civil rights movement and the movement itself. There's always going to be residual affects from major historical events such as those. Of course black Americans are going to be a bit more tight knit after centuries (and counting) of both blatant and underhanded racial mistreatment.
I think that the the difference between the US and Europe is, that In the US slavery was in the country itself, And in Europe it was not done, even forbidden only in the colonies. So a total different thing about thinking about race. In Europe racsism exist but that is what al what is foreign to us. I mean to much a kind of people flooding us,. Cultures clash because we are different not better or worse just different.
Well, frenchies kept their slaves in their colonies?
The French didn't want slavery in their country because they had enough peasant workers to treat like crap. They traded for slaves, put them on ships to other lands, French colonies, and forced them to work there. The descendants of these slaves have it worse on the whole than Black Americans. Would you rather live in America or Haiti? Mali? Cambodia?
@@aliaguerin1266 not really true.. there was slavery in Europe too. But it was not as harsh. And when slavery was abolished, then Europeans didn't retain the view of superiority.. and started to really to build up the equalities and mutual respect and started to root out all the discrimination and segregation.
By the way, just a side note.. in Europe, slavery wasn't even purely something forced on Africans brought from colonies. In my home country Estonia, locals were enslaved by Baltic German aristocrats during many centuries after our lands were occupied by Teutonic Knights. I have also heard that Irish were enslaved back in the past, though i don't know much of that
@@KD-vb9hh The French didn't use all that much slaves as agricultural workers. The first colonial Empire was mostly based around New France (from Quebec to Louisiana north-south, and bordering the 13 colonies to the East). There was barely any slaves there. Instead the habit was to build commercial outposts and trade with the Natives, which became all allies to the French (with the sole exception of the Iroquois). The slaves were primary employed on the coast and in the Caribbeans. In India, the system was similar to the one in New France. The real deal started with the second colonial empire, where it was mainly about setting up infrastructures: local populations were committed to forced labor to build roads, buildings etc. French colonists weren't angels (quite far from that), but it's kinda hard not to notice how little use of slaves they did, compared to the British, who massively imported poor countrymen and african slaves to feed their colonies. In comparison, French colonies were barely inhabited, and heavily reliant on good relations with the actual locals. For the British, wiping out or deporting the Natives was standard practice every time the colonists wanted to expand (Irish indentured forced workers were also among the slaves by the way).
PS: It's not that the French didn't want slaves in mainland France, it's simply that slaves were unneeded: France already had a long agricultural tradition. Farmers were already there working in their own family lands. On top of that, as mentioned, there was very little French colonists, which means there was a lot of French in France already. Adding more people seemed pointless.
After all the "living abroad" blogs I've watched, your discussion was refreshingly intelligent and insightful. Great video!
Just finding your channel, but I love this discussion and wish more people in the states would talk about this😄🙌🏽👍🏽👏🏽🙏🏽
As a Guadeloupean I like how she kept bringing Guadeloupe as an example. ^^
Lol
She must’ve met a person from there
kimneufseventyone my best friend in France is of Guadeloupean origins:)
France does see color there is racism of course, but we (black ppl) don't have the mentality of us (black) versus white, because racism is not blatant and repetitive. And in the US, we can see in some way a black unity, but here in france there is no such a thing, because every black person have their own culture, language, backgrounds. So the unity will be with ppl from our country of origin. :) We are more linked by culture than by race.
Hi, Roman! This video is my first introduction to you, and I SO loved it! I appreciate the info you shared, love your energy, and the friend you interviewed. I’ve recently for whatever reason (lol) become obsessed with all things French and plan to visit France sometime in the next year or so. Trying to learn French now (ooh, those R’s girl😓😂). And I’m from Cali, too! AND have chosen a primarily plant-based diet. So I’m liking and subscribing to your channel. Can hardly wait to delve into your other vids😊
This was such a neat video! Glad you made it.
I'm so happy you like it!
Anglo saxons are more comunautarist
French more universalist
It was in 1798 that we had our first french black member of national assembly...
I like your guest ,interesting video.
Thanks Joyce!
great talk, thanks for your clear-eyed insights :)
Loved the conversation, very interesting to hear your perspectives
This is such a great video! But I have to say that my feelings are hurt about not being able to settle on a city/country. That's what I'm looking for -- a forever home. But maybe I just want to continue to move around until I can't anymore.
I feel you on that re: a forever home. I plan to keep traveling but I have a few special countries I want to keep returning to India & Thailand are my favs. But I also plan to spend a lot of time in France)
Try to visit Africa. Maybe it’s u Spirit who sending u a message
When someone says they don’t see colour it doesn’t mean they see you and they don’t think about your colour. Its more that when you see someone thats black, their colour has the same significance as someones hair colour. Acknowledgement but thats it. In other words you aren’t a ‘black person’ , just a person with dark skin
That's a good assessment. I never saw it that way, but I like that perspective 💖
So im not a white person just a person with light skin. So im not a black haired person just a person with dark hair. I think you need help.
Dino Carlucci
As a matter of fact, you're not a white person. You are a person with light skin. Race is a construct. The discussion concerning colour was re skin colour. As for your hair colour, it's a fine but infinite distinction to either say 1. You're a black hairED person
Or
2. You're a black hair person.
#2 is the equivalent of our skin colour distinction. And to that, one could indeed say - you're not a black hair person;
You're a person with black hair.
No. That's what they think they're saying. But it's completely untrue. Every person is affected by the conditioning of our society to base value and presumptions based on the person they see before them -- and race and skin color play a role in that.
@@candacen7779
no you try to throw on others your own beliefs.
Many peoepls in Europe think like Shrebet Lemon says.
Peoples can see color skin like hair color, because they don't have a racist culture, because they are individualist and see the individual before the racial belonging.
When i was young, in a class we get one black guy, and he was seen like the other guy with just an exotic history to tell, his color did not matter at all.
Both of you are so clever and well spoken, thank you for this conversation :)
Love your video and perspectives. Thank you!
Thanks for having Kim ..she has some good points..
Yes, I loved chatting with her. With 5+ years in France, I was really excited to talk to her.
I love this conversation.
Yay! I'm so happy to hear that!
This is a excellent informative discussion. Thank you.
Enjoyed this discussion so much ❤️
I'm so glad to hear that!
This is totally false when she say "they don't mix culture" ... When black and white are in a relationship here (in france) we share our food , culture etc... and this is not a things to be "more french". We are basically french with origins and we live with it that's it. We don't have the mentality to be "more french" because we are french... We can't be more. And when we say "métisse" here it's only for black and white... Not asian and white... Because they are white
She is comparing with US where black people would identify as black identity and same for white people there; but in France black people would refer to their French + Roots identity not a kind of "unique black identity"(but depending on your roots) same thing for maghrebians people. She took the exemple of food since a French guy with nigerian roots whould be talking about some dishes from there and not be talking about "black food" like in the US(especially since black Americains don't really identify themselves as African regarding their culture).Same for a French guy with Maghrebian roots talking about a dish from Algeria, tunisia, Marocco, lybia and not just "arab food".
I don't see that...
I am not sure if I understood your comment well but I have heard the word "métis" being used not only for black and white, as the term "métissage" suggests. I for one am white and asian and people always go "oh you are métisse then". Also, when you say "Not asian and white because they are white"... are you aware that Asia is very large and not every Asian has pale skin ?
@@chappy616 metisse is any mixed people. She is wrong to consider it just black and white mix. It's like 'pardo/a' in Brazil that refers to to any mixed people. Now, in Brazil they brake it down after that according to what the mix is but the overall name for mix people is pardo, just like metisse in French
@@VicMansaMusa Okay, thank you for the explanation. Is the word pardo connoted negatively ? (like in Japan when people call you a "half" it's not always necessarily nice)
I loved this dialogue, would love to hear more about the documentation process for moving to France. I wouldn't even know where to begin...
im french and i want to hurry you to come in France because we love black people very much there And french girls loves black guys very much
leon walter the reverse is true
The first step is to get a long stay visa at your nearest French Embassy which will allow you to enter and stay in France for more than 3-months. Once you have arrived, you will need to register with the local authorities to obtain your Residence Permit in order to live in that city or town permanently. I think after 5 years or so, you can apply for French citizenship but you must be able to understand and speak French in order to apply. You can find out more about the application process by researching it online. IMHO, it is so much easier and faster for foreigners to migrate to France than the USA. The waiting time to get a US Green Card, legally, can last for many years, and in many cases decades, and there's no guarantee that their application will be successful! That's why there are millions of illegal immigrants in America because the application process is extremely arduous and long.
Love your voices for some reason! Was a really nice video to listen to. And very interesting points :)
Stumbled upon this and was delighted by your great conversation and insights, some funny ones too. Good luck both of you.
Been there couple of times; love it. Everything your friend said is pretty much on point. I Worked in Toulouse (southern France) for couple of months a few years ago...Was great 🙂. love French people just about as much as the French language (minor in college) They keep it real, don't feel the need to try and impress other people, and know how to rear their young (lots of similarities to most African cultures). Im going to marry a French speaking man and settle in a French speaking country. Read the books "French Kids Eat Anything" and "Bringing Up Bebe" for more insight on French culture from North America perspectives. I love to travel so when I say settle I mean 4-5 years lol years lol
I like the idea of marrying a French speaking man. Gotta love that accent!!!
Saidia Manyuan accent spaccent lol. The French and I gel. New Yorkers and I gel too lol. Life as a foreigner is fun; I really enjoy it:-)
@@namastewellness #LocalForeigner 🙂
9 Lives And Counting - indeed, I completely agree with you, and now US-Americans (especially black US-Americans) are hellbent on importing their race based obsessions abroad especially to the UK, we need to fiercely reject it just like how the Netherlands, France, Portugal, and Canada fiercely reject US race-obsessed mentalities.
It’s strange to think the UK (especially England) is more at risk of US-Americanisation more than Canada is, despite Canada being neighbours with the US. I think it’s bc Canada has a long history of distancing itself from the US in politics, culture, and society, it started with Pierre Elliott Trudeau the Canadian prime minister in the 1960s (and maybe even before then), it carries on to this day.
@9 Lives And Counting I would say as an American I do agree with you bringing up race all the time is unhealthy. The only time I think it should be brought up is when an ignorant A.H. is slamming someone about their race or ethnic appearances. I personally love all colors and different shades variety is the spice of life. What a boring world this place would be if we all looked the same.
Interesting discussion. It's official, I'm moving to France !
Haha c'mon!
This was a nice interview. Well done!
Very interesting conversation, girls! I’m French from Guadeloupe myself and it was interesting to see your point of vue on the subject!
I don't know why this video wasn't in my recommendations earlier... I love watching videos of foreigners' view on French culture, and I'm a sucker for feministXanti-racist content.
Anyway, really great video, thank you!
A lot of us do (not so) secretly love you ;)
Feminist x anti-racist content is pretty great
@@125loopy The only bad feminist content ( and weirdly the most promoted one ) is sadly people spitting at women who fought hard to get gender equality.
( What I mean is, they don't want anything close to equality, they want to be superior to men, which is far from what feminism is )
I have lived in France now for 12 years and I have to say I agree 110 percent with her comment about the French being only for empowerment to women when it is in the Benefit for men! Well said! Bisou à vous 2
J’adore!
You are amazing!! So glad I found your videos!
I love the use of the word "conniption" at 3:46!
There's no such thing as a "perfect place"! Everywhere can be call home: all we need is to adapt and to keep an opened mind.
Beauty and brains ! Very stimulating discussion. Thanks
Thank you, ladies! Honest, open and smart dialog. And you're both adorable! Best for ever!
P.S. Can't help but remark another brilliant insight of Kim's: "I thought that France would be a bit more progressive when it came to gender. But then I came to realize, I think French are more progressive on things that relate to women that benefit men." Si bien dit !
It's not brilliant, it comes from an ignorant stereotype and probably self propaganda.
www.quora.com/In-your-experience-have-you-found-that-France-can-be-in-general-more-sexist-and-narrow-minded-I-have-heard-many-Americans-say-this-but-I-want-to-hear-others-thoughts-and-experiences/answer/George-G%C3%A9al-Killy?ch=10&share=9312bd9d&srid=zw2r
Progressive here is such a sad statement knowing that France is barely trying to give equal footing with men regarding autonomy. Men’s autonomy is not threatened.
@L gd les hommes font plus d'heures
Extremly wrong. Still a lot of work to do but look at the percentage of women in US Congress (20%) and the one in French National Assembly (40%). Same for executives and members of board of directors. Gender parity is in the law for 20 years here in France.
You are plain wrong oui oui
Are you french ? I am just curious ?
Thanks, kind of interesting conversation.
FYI, the percentage of women in the assemblée nationale is 40% in France, vs. about 20% in the US congress.
In the US, 27% of execs are women, vs. 37% in France, 17% of board members are women in the US vs. 45% in France.
Methinks that you are letting some propaganda seep into what you think is true, I'm afraid.
The fact that we don't go on about it endlessly here is not because we don't want women in positions of power and just want to see their tits and get rid of babies... We also have a pretty decent childcare system that makes it possible for kids to go to school and day care during actual business hours.
@@amandinem.7536
The comment that was made in the video was that gender equality features in France were those that benefited men, like dudes can see women's tits and get rid of babies.
Literally that was the claim made in the video.
France is a society that passed gender parity laws in 2000 (20 years ago) for elections and public servants, and in 2014 for boards of companies in the private sector. These laws don't get passed against the French people, they are passed by the French people.
Moreover, there are no laws that compel companies to nominate women at other executive positions, yet, there are 37% of women in these positions against 27% in the US.
Moreover, France invests heavily in childcare infrastructure, which is always during business hours, specifically for reasons of access to the workforce in particular for women.
France is a less sexist country than the US whichever way you look at it.
The density and "mainstreamness" of public feminist discourse (much higher in the US than in France) is not a reliable measure for the actual discrimination that women face in a given country.
vfwh thank you! Americans always act like they are more progressive than they really are.
Very interesting topics. Thanks ladies
very interesting discussion, thanks!!
Why hasn't no one made a kanye west joke
@Ben Sanspiro lol
In Europe, we don’t think in “colours”! 😁We think in nationalities as in we think we are all French or Austrian or Norwegian or European etc. It doesn’t matter what colour your/my skin colour is. Also, I’m an Asian living in Europe for 2 decades so I can tell you from real long-time experience that EU laws regarding consumer protection, social welfare (like medical, old age, pension, education etc), women’s rights etc are far faaaar ahead of USA! And most of my family lives in USA so I do know the dets. 😉.... and we have a lot of women entrepreneurs and CEOs in many European countries. You need to travel and live outside France to know that! 😝
But there is racism in France. A good friend experienced it in the work force living there.
Wow that is so not true! As a Canadian of colour living in Germany, people here refuse to believe I'm "really Canadian" and want to know "where I'm really from". If that's not an obsession with colour, I don't know what is. If I were white, no one would react that way with me. Europeans are just in denial about racism and racialization, that's why they don't think they have a problem. And that's way worse than simply admitting you have a problem.
To say you don't think in colours isn't accurate. I know people of different races experience a lot of issues because of skin colour.
indrinita ...I’m an asian with a tan and I have suffered far far more discrimination in my homeland (Asia) 😭 then I have ever in EU. Of course, people here are curious about my ethnic background and I have had many people guess where I come from ranging from Brazil to Spain to Pakistan to Sri lanka to India etc. But, this is out of curiosity and desire to befriend rather than from a racist viewpoint. Maybe I’m just lucky to have met and worked and lived with fabulous Europeans for almost 2 decades! Of course, there are a (mere) handful awful encounters... but for 19 years, I think that it a pretty impressive track record (Most of these happened in the UK for me). It’s pretty difficult for discrimination to not exist in any form in any country but I think it is far less than in say, the US. Our everyday lives are definitely not impacted so enormously the same way.😉
Ivy Prosper ...I encounter discrimination based on skin colour but often it’s when I visit my family and friends in Asia, very rarely in Europe.... which is sad really as majority Asians do not have as pale a skin colour or blue eyes or blonde hair as the Europeans do. Also, discrimination here I would say is based more on the gender like women are paid less etc., or you could be discriminated based on your social class in UK etc.
This was very interesting, thanks!
Really enjoyed this! Thanks ladies for being open and honest and for keeping it real and not being PC. Being real is unique to Americans (to be more specific americans from the USA)...free to speak your mind and heart! Wish you could do such a piece on Germany. :-).
When your friend said she gets mistaken for Brazilian, I can see why. I'm of Brazilian descent, but raised in Boston, and your friend has a look that's very commonplace among Brazilian women.
Thanks so much for this video. I'd like to visit France but as a dark-skinned POC, I have a lot of anxiety... Before watching your video, I wondered if I should work on finding meet-up groups for black Americans in France or ex-pats... but maybe I should allow myself to just meet people organically when I'm out and about... regardless of what color they are... It seems that just finding someone that is willing to open up to a black American is hard enough.
M B you won't have any difficulty being accepted in France. It's a multicultural country :)
Its always good to do that so you can hear from others how it is... For al the others you have to live the life its nice. Peace.
Great discussion, thank you, Alex
Interesting, thank you for sharing your experiences about being black in Paris/France!
It might appear weird, but from my perspective (French man from Syrian origin) I find it really strange to nod to people just because they share the same "ethnicity" than yours. Imagine, if white people were doing the same, they'd just be called racists (in the way that they don't behave the same toward people of their ethnicity compared to others). Even more when applied to American society, where people from African descent are absolutely not coming from the same country nor share the same heritage. To follow up on my analogy with white people, that'd be the same as having a white Afrikaaner and a Swedish nodding to each other on the street on the simple fact that they are white. Obviously, it comes from the fact that I have a different cultural point of view than US people, due to the fact that I'm French, but that's tough for me to really understand and justify.
I don't know. A few years back, I was in China , and hadn't seen another white person for a week or so - then at an historic site, I noticed a couple of other white people, the only other whites among the hundreds of people there. I was a little surprised that they just walked by me looking straight ahead, as if they didn't even notice. It's not that I assumed we had a whole lot in common - but they too were in all likelihood far from home, which usually creates just enough of a connection to warrant a nod of the head.
I live in Spain and when I first moved here...there weren't a lot of people that looked like me...now there are more and we do have a connection - because we all have to put up with the same BS in this home.
@@nozecone and it's normal I don't understand why people are thinking this is some kind of communautarism
@@creolito9600 Whenever race is brought into something, some people start getting agitated - that's my theory, anyway ... !
They are a majority...why would they be suprised to see each other?
I am a French guy and I like you very much Kim, I think you are smart and wise, and you managed to grap what being French is all about, especially when it comes to "being black". Cause the major difference about citizenship between France and America is that in France citizenship is mostly political, while in the US it is mostly ethnical.
In America, citizenship is built bottom-up, starting from the community or ethnical group a person belongs to, to embrace upper US citizenship, while in France, the approach is mostly top-down, with the major French political concepts and language coming 1st, while origin or skin color (ideally) coming far behding that.
And for that reason, we are aware there is racism around, but we will try to open the skin color discussion as little as possible, only as a last resort solution, mainly when it comes to point and try solving racism and discrimination issue.
One last point, I happened to share a flat in Turkey with a pretty radical Afro-American woman two years ago (the 1st hour we met, she put straight away on my shoulders the responsibility of centuries of slavery), who kept constantly bringing back the discussion to skin-color issues (which is pretty rude in France actually), and who happened to go to Paris for a couple of weeks, coming back to our place with this 1st amazed comment: "I can't believe it, in Paris, Black people do not refer themselves as Black people".
Thanks again for this nice video. Love. Frederic.
Black Americans (non children of black immigrants) have been in the USA for more than 3 centuries so we do not identify like black europeans who are less than 3 generations or less in France or Britain etc. We literally cant identify with any other culture. We are not latinos, caribbeans, nor Africans so we are racially identified. Boris Kudjoe a half Ghanian desceng man born in Austria can say he is Ghanian but me I cannot even if my ancestors came from there 300 years ago.
@@jasminepearls1047
Hi Jasmine, RUclips did not warn me about your reply, just happened to watch this video again. Based on my brief but intense experience with my Afro-American flatmate, what stroke me is that actually from my point of view she was mostly American. Her Americano-centered vision of the world, her constant reference to New York city, her expectations to find every day-to-day stuff just like in the States, her over-self-convidence in the discussion despite knowing little about Turkey, her strong voice... made her actually very American to me. And when it comes to the African part of "being Afro-Americian", there was actually pretty much nothing left of Africa in her: she was not speaking any African language, she was not eating any African food, she was not dressing with any African clothes, had zero-African-culture left in her, and for sure would not be able to live in most of African countries today. So actually dont you think that most of Afro-Americans today are just basically... Americans?
@@peps7274 We are Americans. African American is an ethnicity. We have our own culture.
@@jasminepearls1047
Ok but apart from skin color, what makes you culturally different from let's say a White American living in the same state/city as you? Also have you ever been outside of the USA, if yes, how did you feel then? Did you feel Afro-American, just American, or other?
So you guys don't address racism until it becomes a major problem? Not to say you guys are racist but it sounds a bit of like what happens in the Nordic countries where you guys ignore issues you arent comfortable talking about until the bomb blows up in your face. Not a healthy approach. And possibly "we are all French first" isnt true.
Well done !
thanks for the information
This was good!! Loved you two together.
Thanks!
@@romanlillie no, thank you. Your videos makes me feel like im there with you. Very relaxing. You are very open and you give your honest opinions on things... You are just adroable!!🤗 best wishes from D.C.
I'm French and I remember going in the USA, and being surprised to see black-american staying in groups by themselves and white-american in groups by themselves in the street. I'd like to see what you think of the controversy in the US about France soccer team ?
What controversy in the U.S. about the French soccer team? You mean that the team is dominated by players of African descent? Most Americans (I am one) don't have enough of an interest in soccer to have an opinion beyond finding the color origin of the players interesting. I think major papers covered it as a story of how some in France were upset by the how the team was made up. The little it was covered it was from the liberal sympathetic angle--soccer fans tend to be liberal in the US.
Soccer is just not very popular in the US (though it is getting more popular), but people do get into it for the World Cup. Pogba was covered as a colorful personality but Mbappe was king here. For the soccer playing kids, Mbappe (like Riano was and is) is their new hero because most had probably never heard of him before the tournament. :)
Yes, I thought this "controversy" was very interesting. Honestly in my opinion I thought people were making a big deal about nothing. I didn't think Trevor Noah's joke seemed malicious. I'm planning future videos about race in France with locals.
Interesting discussion for sure. And I totally agree with you that some people use jokes to hide/minimize their bigoted views. Solid point.
@@RogerThat902 Some in France were indeed upset by how the 1998 world cup winning team was made up. In 2018, it seemed to me that the US media recycled the 20 year old story. It felt fake in France because most, even Le Pen, had turned the page. The players themselves were quite surprised that their ethnic origin seemed to attract more interest than the game. They clearly said that they were French, period. For European soccer players, performance on the pitch generally trumps nationality. Commonly, those who can't make it to the senior French national team elect to play for their African parents home country like Paul Pogba's brothers.
For me I hang with all blacks because that’s who I grew up around. I went to black schools my whole life and lived in black neighborhoods my whole life.
Y’all don’t do the black person head nod in France? Ah man...
SirVolcy No communautarism in France, sorry :)
No its not done, only if you know somebody i wont do it to anybody .. I can say bonjour goodmorning if you like .. but that i do because its considered being polite not because you are black.
It depends on where you live. Like if you live in big cities like Paris, Marseille, etc, you won't get a lot of head nod but if you living in cities (Grigny, Clichy,..) where there is a lot of minorities, then you'll get more head nod. Since we coming from the same backround and stuff you know.. We understand, help and support each other more.
We actually do it when we are in room filled with white people.
don't do it in the usa either....in fact doing so in NY might trigger a serious beatdown.
This is the most informative video ever.
I frickin love the conversation. Great questions were asked and good answers were given.
Im from the West indies and i would say both of you are from Martinique or Guadeloupe
"the illusion of everybody's the same makes us the same"
Very relevant!
With the caveats, of course.
or is it the opposite ? the illusion of being different makes them different (in the US) ?
This was a good discussion!
Great video, very smart analysis