I got my first K31 years ago when it was a cheap Curio and Relic oddity. I brought it home and imagined using it in the alps at would-be Nazi invaders. And when I worked the bolt that first time with my cheek on the stock, I learned that the throw brought it directly into my face. For such a well-engineered machine, this seemed like a tremendous oversight. I still love my K31s.
Ironically, the first time I ever used a K31 charger, I did it without issue and removed the magazine instantly afterward to show someone how they worked. It took me a while after that to figure out how I did it. You need to rotate your thumb 90 degrees and it's much easier. Have your palm kind of above the rifle and press them in with one movement using your forearm. Using your thumb lengthwise makes it a lot easier to put consistent force on the cartridges. While prone, it would probably make it easier if you tilted the rifle. I wouldn't know, I've never been prone, this is just theory. Granted, I've fired less than a hundred rounds from mine, but I've found that you can learn a lot in life from people who are doing something for the first time. The K31 was the first firearm I ever owned or fired, so I learned things very differently with it.
Owning a K31 from my grand father, I don´t agree with you, on two points. First you can shoot it without moving your head. Maybe it´s just a matter of how far you move your face forward, or my swiss face is different to yours ;) Second, i can shot it using my middle finger. I never used it on 300m shooting ranges, but i gonna try that one this year. All in all nice vids you produce and share with us.
I cannot shoot it without moving my head. Watch where the bolt comes to. Also, I cannot reach the trigger in a meaningful manner with my middle finger while holding the bolt.
This series is bloody interesting, alright. I know it's not purely scientific, but it does give a raw estimation based on a single shooter, and could be considered representative. Obviously a K31 master who's only ever shot K31s might be faster, but you represent the 'average' very well as you're well versed in all these rifles. I'm perhaps most interested to see the eventual Mosin tests, to see how much slower it is than its contemporaries. Reloads will likely be a bit slower, and I'd be willing to be you'll slow down over the course of fire as the bolt, even on a clean, non-sticky rifle, can be a bit of a bear to work on. I'm also very interested to see how the Austrian straight-pulls compare to the Swiss ones, as well as stripper vs en bloc loading. This standardized testing for old-school rifles is very entertaining at the very least, and I'd argue it's educational...so far, it seems most rifles are pretty comparable and the differences aren't huge. Really enjoying the videos thus far, and congrats on getting near enough 50k! I'm sure by next week's video, you'll be there so I'm congratulating you in advance!
Maybe there's a Swiss Champion Mad Minute Meister, who grew up with these rifles and could better that effort with his highly developed right thumb, but that was still a devastating rate of fire !! Well done. I am off to see if these rifles are prone to clogging in muddy conditions having seen pictures of the stripped action. (The Swiss fighting over rocks and avoiding low ground would not be so prone to this problem perhaps ?? ) Anyway, all rifles, like most beers, are very good !! Cheers !! I am posting this again, slightly altered, as something weird happened with you tube moving my reply to the past year. Let's see what happens this time.
a good trick with the K31: you can actually fit 7.5 Swiss pretty easily on stripper clips for Swedish mausers or Mosin stripper clips, but of course you can only load 5 instead of 6. but at the same time, they are a lot easier to load into the magazine, plus both stripper clips are cheaper (at least here in the US).
If I had the money I would have bought the K31 that was at the range I was at recently. They are such beautiful shooting guns and that are gorgeous to look at too. They also aren't as expensive in TX as the SMLE I really want is.
Maybe there's a Swiss Champion Mad Minute Meister, who grew up with these rifles who could better that effort with his highly developed right thumb, but that was still a devastating rate of fire !! Well done. I am off to see if these rifles are prone to clogging in muddy conditions having seen pictures of the stripped action. (The Swiss fighting over rocks and avoiding low ground would not be so prone to this problem perhaps ?? ) Anyway, all rifles, like most beers, are very good !! Cheers !!
These videos are very interesting. The geeky bit is fascinating. I have pondered upon the rate of fire with stripper clips and wondered (and pondered!!) on how fast the rate would be if several loaded magazines were used. If you imagine a section, platoon or even a company firing a mad minute, I wonder what the beaten zone would look like. Your videos provoke much thought.........and pondering!
Oh, there's lots interesting on this topic coming up. And you might like to ponder for the difference between loaded magazines on the range, and loaded magazines taken from (and empty magazines returned to) pouches :)
Wooowie that looks like a sweet-shootin' action. It looks and sounds decidedly, well, Swiss. I've been watching some of your stuff and I might be catching the bolt-action bug. I only own semis and have had limited experience with 1903s and shot a Mosin.Wasn't too impressed then but now I think I'm starting to see the beauty in them and the skill and technique utilized in operating them.
I have a Williams peep sight mounted on my 1911 carbine. As a youth in the late 1960's I fell in love with the Schmidt Rubins that my father and I saw in the Southern Cal gun stores. I got one for a birthday present (in 1971, I think). I was jealous of the Swiss diplomats who shot their K-31's at the Fish Canyon (In Azusa, Ca. , closed now) rifle range, they seemed so much sleeker. We reloaded resized 284 win brass at first. Later we found some Norma brass, but it was expensive. One the first gun things I did as an adult was pay a gunsmith to mount a Williams peep sight on the receiver. At that time they made a sight that could be mounted on the Schmidt Rubin without too much trouble. The sight has served me well. It was of their "F-P" line, not the same as their modern FP sights, I'm afraid. Still it might be worth contacting Williams to see if they still have a sight that they recommend. I have photos of the sight and even the box, as I have kept it all this time (since ~1978) but it doesn't seem that I can post photos in the comment. The sight cost $20.50 and the labor was $12.50, I have the receipt to prove it! The receiver did have to be drilled and there was a minor amount wood removal on the stock.
Need to sweep up some empties Bloke! ha ha Love the rapid fire with this beautiful K31. I am currently trying to get some stripper clips for mine (rocking horse poo comes to mind) :) And trying to get a spare magazine! I think Lucky 13 need to make a 10 shot magazine for these.
This has me really wondering about the Italian M1891, which also has a 6 round reload but potentially faster reload due to the en-bloc clip. If it could average a 2.1 sec split-time and 6 second reload you could get a 24 shot mad minute. I know a 2.1 sec split is a bit much for the M1891 which is hardly known as a smooth or short action but it's got less recoil and if it's a turn down bolt it might be just about as good as a Mauser 98.
Ergonomics of the K11 I would agree are better. The balance of the rifle, easier reloads, etc. I think I prefer the K11 for certain types of shooting. However the 300 m zero creates an issue on small targets 100 yards or less.
This series proves that statement wrong... The top rifles are a mix of turnbolt and straight pulls, and there is also a straight pull down the list alongside the 98k too.
Could you maybe do a mad hour video? That would be great. Thanks! But seriously, I know that in switzerland a lot of these rifles get scraped because people hand them in. Is it possible for me as a german to get one of these and export it?
Yeah you /really/ gotta shove the rounds in with your thumb, like, no matter how far down you think you need to go, go one further. Also, it'll work a little better if you fiddle with the clips, they get bent over time, and don't feed the rounds perfectly. They were meant to be used once then thrown out, so they aren't very sturdy. And modern plastic repros don't feed the 6th round properly at all. It also helps to put on a big winter coat or put a limbsaver on the end to get the butt out to modern ergonomics.
The K31 is used extensively in CMP vintage rifle matches here in the States. Course of fire in rapid is 10 shots requiring a mandatory 5 round reload. Hot glue two small dowels at the top of the stripper and it holds five round easily. That reload does require some experience to drive the thumb deep to insure the 5th rounds seats. They are amazing accurate and easy to shoot rifles. Check out the National Vintage Military Rifle Match results at this page ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.php?do=match&task=edit&tab=results&match=18060 to see how many K31 are represented at the US Nationals.
You mention getting hold of a ten-round magazine for the K31. What about getting hold of one of the 20 round magazines for the Lee-Enfield? There were not many issued, but they were used in WWI, so actually a military tool, not a range tool.
Using this at distance there's not much disadvantage compared to using an early semi auto. Up close though having to work the bolt between shots would be a bit hairy.
I love my K31. Could be because it's my only bolt action, but unlikely. As far as straight pull bolt rifles go, I wonder what the difference would be between say the K11 and the allegedly fast , though problematic, Ross Rifle.
Nick u the Ross rifle was a target rifle the bolt was no problem when the rifle was used as a target rifle.the problem cropped up when trying to make a target rifle into a combat rifle in ww1.
Do you think your firing rate could be improved by starting with 6 and then loading only 5? If it's only the last round giving you the problems, do you think this would give you more time firing instead of reloading?
The reloads would be helped, but the point of doing this with the shot timer is that we can split that out, cos the interesting thing is the shot-to-shot splits. It would also not be historically accurate to load in 5's, hence doing it the "proper" way here. I foresee a lightly-modded K31 going even faster in the future :)
@@BlokeontheRange Thanks for the info. The price in Canada has jumped a lot in the last couple of years. We use to get them for $300 Canadian, now they average around $800.
Join a shooting club in Switzerland, and ask arround- many of your camrades have a K31, K11 or JG11 laying arround - a few days after Asking I had 4 K31's and a JG11 - for the 2 K31 with a Diopter, i Payed 50 Franks each and the other ones where for free
Just ask your local gun dealer. A K31 is available in Switzerland from around 200 up to you guess it. A guy wanted to buy mine last year for 2000 bucks :) I dont sell it ever!
@@BlokeontheRange i gotcha. Regarding GRS rifle stocks. I think a k31 that needs some TLC would benefit a lot from a GRS stock. Especially if its been chopped up by bubba.
I saw down in the comments someone asking about K31 clip availability. Is it possible to have some shipped from there to here if they are plentiful? I would like to have several for my K31 and K11. Both exceptional firearms. Keep up the great work by the way!
It would be interesting to see if you start with 6 rounds in the magazine but only fire 5 (leaving always a round in) would result in a shorter reload as you would not have to press so deep.
No, he does it wrong. They go in very easily in one smooth move, all 6 of them. The move can be done with the thumb, but I find it more natural to do it with the index finger. But he's right about the K11. I prefer it in many ways over the K31. However, I shoot standard sights, with iris sights the K31 is slightly more precise, and on the range reload time really doesn't matter.
i think a long magazine could be fabricated from the originals..just cut off the bottom and use long spring and weld on the magazine from another weapon
No. Not at all. I don't think recoil comes into the equation here at all (subject for a future vid in which I give it loads with a No.4 and cast bullets at 1100fps). The Langgewehr bolts are typically stiffer, which is unlikely to help in any case, and are more tiring from their weight.
I may know your problem bloke as i use OBS as well for my recording. You need to make sure that if you are using a separate microphone that your webcam mic is turned off or muted within OBS. Otherwise you get this "double Mic" issue that you are having. Try muting your webcam mic in your source window.
I know why hitler did not dare to invade switzerland in ww2, because swiss has a great country's militia system, higher ratio of gun-owner population, and of course this great K31 rifle.
@@thebotrchapThe locking lugs on the K11 locks in the receiver to the rear of the magazine. Thus there are no locking lugs at the front of the magazine like on a Mauser 98 or the K31. The bolt on a K11 then needs a shorter travel to chamber a round from the magazine to the chamber. So, technically, the G11 is a rear lug design like the Steyr SSG69 and Sauer 80/90.
Agskytter The G1889 has true rear locking lugs. The 11 series moves them substantially further forward (even if still behind the mag well). If you include the travel of the cocking piece, the K31 only has a 5mm greater bolt throw. Not enough to give an edge as you will see when we publish the mad minute. Having said that, I prefer operating a K/G11 bolt which I think is far smoother. It’s just a shame that the magazine is so far forward when reloading.
@@thebotrchap Well, the edge the K11 has over the K31 was enough that the K11 was the preferred action of these in the old Olympic shooting event "Running deer doubles" (that they still shoot at Bisley). Hammerli made custom K11 running deer rifles for some Norwegian shooters in 6,5x55. Ross, M95 and Norwegian Krag was the most popular military actions for this event. The Soviets used custom Ross in 7,62x54R up until they made a civil straight pull rifle in 220 Russian, parent of 6PPC, in the beginning of the 60'ies. Have a look at this extremely customized M95M for this event to be used in the 1956 Melbourne Olympics by the 1952 Olympic champ: ruclips.net/video/TzLZ4anr-c0/видео.html The Soviets won gold with a Ross in '56. Running deer doubles: ruclips.net/video/u1Xp__8k038/видео.html
Hello, I have a question but hope i can my problem explain in German. Also ich hab mir einen K31 gekauft, aber in .308 ausführung. Diese Karabiner wurden von Lizensierten Büchsenmachern umgebaut. Also neuer Lauf. Mir ist nun aufgefallen, dass ich mit billiger munition aus der schuttpackung, nach 4 schuss die leere hülse aus dem patronenlager mit sehr viel kraft rausgezogen bekomme. Mit markenmunition von Remington war das nicht so schlimm, aber trotzdem funktioniert der Verschluss nicht so leichtgängig wie in deinen videos. Wodran liegts ? Hast du vielleicht eine Idee ?
chlechte Hülsen, die kleben. Ist auch manchmal so mit Surplus-Munition in Repetierer (habe dänische 7.62mm in einem Steyr Scout geschossen, musste den Verschluss offenhämmern)
Bloke on the Range also ist die Waffe nicht defekt oder, sondern man muss nach der richtigen Muni suchen. Ich dachte auch daran weil die Waffe noch neu ist, sehr enge passungen hat, dadurch das problem auftaucht. Danke für deine Antwort, geniale videos, auch wenn ich manchmal beim zuhören nicht alles verstehe ist es sehr informativ. Zum schluss muss ich dich noch fragen welchen diopter du empfehlen würdest ?
Danke! eigentlich ziehe ich kein Diopter vor, alle passende sind gut. Ich liebe meinen W+F K-Diopter, da ich den kleinen Tunnel besser mit Blockkorn finde. Aber mit Ringkorn wäre etwas grösseres besser.
PickelJars ForHillary he's in Switzerland so it would be cheap. There is a company in the US that makes polymer ones. It's like 2 for $12 or something like that.
.303 for the wiiiiiiiin. And we know the mauserfanboiz are gonna hate that test *evil chortle* Do you have an opinion on which is faster the SMLE or the no 4?
I've not shot an SMLE for this series yet, but they tend to be just a touch smoother than a No.4 in my experience. But then the sights are less good for this kind of work. Whether any of that will make any significant difference I don't know.
Late to the show sorry. Serious question. I love the k-31 and all swiss rifles. I also Love sporter rifles. But i hate poorly done sporters that destroy a rifle. That being said I found that GRS make their laminate models in BLANKS. Which theoretically means I can have a GRS Stock for a k31! I don't believe in cutting up a perfectly good k31 so I would do this to a rifle that bubba already got his hands on but how cool does that sound?
I've done it with a Mosin in competition back in the day. But yes, we hate ourselves enough to do it with both a straight-handle and a bent handle one!
Cos it's not worth people's time and effort to export them. So many end up in the shredder since some dealers won't even take them for free so people hand them into the cops/army.
Bloke on the Range what? K31s go for 6 to 3 times the price of what they go for in Switzerland(100 francs for a k31?) in the us. They are definitely worth to export. If they're seriously being shredded that isn't only a travesty but just complete and utter idiocy when they can be sold for a profit to Americans that would willingly buy them.
If it was worth it, people would be doing it. I suspect that the margin is so tiny that only a couple of bigger firms are still interested in doing it. You pay 600. End dealer probably pays 300. Importer probably only 200, if that. 10 on a pallet will cost a couple of hundred to package and ship, and the paperwork at this end is 50.-leaving the Swiss dealer with say 1750 max for dealing with 10 rifles, assuming he got them for free. In the meantime he has to store the rifles (which has a cost even if sunk), and his time costs money too. Or, he can sell one Blaser hunting rifle with a nice bit of glass on it and make way more than that for less effort.
Not sure what you mean there... if you mean only push 5 of 6 into the mag and pull out the charger, you're going to be dealing with a loose round that may or may not have fallen into the action or might remain in the charger.
i agree, it would have to take some practice,and i imagine if your hands are freezing cold , you might not be able to use your thumb to force that final round into the magazine.........on a different topic, have you considered cutting the magazine and welding a longer similar size magazine onto the original?.......maybe a 20 round or whatever?
how about turning a dummie round into a "pusher ".....by brazing a thumb "button" on it, and then your thumb will only have to travel flush with the bolt ..the dummie would be a permanent part of the charging clip i would also like to know what size magazine holds and feeds 7.5 ammo if were to be butchered and welded to an original magazine to increase it to 10 rounds or so
Not as fast as a lee enfield.... but I think if you had a lot of other guys shooting at a similar rate, that would be a terrifying amount of in coming fire to be receiving
The accuracy requirement for .303 Mk.VII was a Figure of Merit of 8" or less at 600 yds from an SMLE in a special rest (ToSA 1928 p. 239)... US .30 M2 ball had to run 7.5" mean radius (same thing, different terminology) at 600 yds, and .30 M2 AP had to run 10" mean radius at the same distance (Hatcher's Notebook p. 394). Guess they must be "complite shite" too, lol :p
have you seen stang shooting from norway? ruclips.net/video/PhMW_bodQVo/видео.html not 300 yards and not 1minute but damn these guys have got it down I don't know what the record for them is but maybe 15-16 shots in 25sec on a target 250 meters away is awesome
some of those Krags compete pretty stock except for better sights, and the AG3 are stock but semis so kinda cheating. great to see shooting as a big popular spectator sport thou
if I could go back in time and redesign the k31 I probably would make it middle fingerable. I know that kind of rapid fire is a British thing, but I can't help but think a straight pull that you could middle finger would be a fantastic idea.
What I dislike about that system is having to take your head away from the sights. That pretty much negates the advantage of the straight pull. Why it wasn't designed to give the best of both worlds is beyond me.
There are very few military bolt-action rifles you can cycle without taking your eye from the sights. And as you can see, it's still as fast as my No.4 (which I had to take my eye from the sights on cos it's got a short butt and I'm not small).
I hate the term "geeky"....as if any study of scientific, technical, Engineering or mathematical things is deviant. It's almost as if it's a given these days anyone interested in such matters is Asperger's. Well no.... The reality is if you are not interested in such matters you are a possibly a fucking dunce. Political correctness gone mad. Nice shooting by the way. I am tempted by the K31. It's Swiss and the straight pull thing seems logical and well executed
I got my first K31 years ago when it was a cheap Curio and Relic oddity. I brought it home and imagined using it in the alps at would-be Nazi invaders. And when I worked the bolt that first time with my cheek on the stock, I learned that the throw brought it directly into my face. For such a well-engineered machine, this seemed like a tremendous oversight. I still love my K31s.
Ironically, the first time I ever used a K31 charger, I did it without issue and removed the magazine instantly afterward to show someone how they worked. It took me a while after that to figure out how I did it.
You need to rotate your thumb 90 degrees and it's much easier. Have your palm kind of above the rifle and press them in with one movement using your forearm. Using your thumb lengthwise makes it a lot easier to put consistent force on the cartridges. While prone, it would probably make it easier if you tilted the rifle. I wouldn't know, I've never been prone, this is just theory.
Granted, I've fired less than a hundred rounds from mine, but I've found that you can learn a lot in life from people who are doing something for the first time. The K31 was the first firearm I ever owned or fired, so I learned things very differently with it.
A really helpful video for someone such as myself how’s trying to choose a classic military rifle for U.K. shooting.
Please save them from scrap! I need to add more of those Swiss beauties to my collection.
6:49
"In the action, up to the knuckle"
Just where I like to be.
So the Swiss were smaller hence the short stock. Maybe they also had longer thumbs so easier reloading 👍
Short stocks also help with thick coats.
monkey arms make for good shooting
Owning a K31 from my grand father, I don´t agree with you, on two points. First you can shoot it without moving your head. Maybe it´s just a matter of how far you move your face forward, or my swiss face is different to yours ;) Second, i can shot it using my middle finger. I never used it on 300m shooting ranges, but i gonna try that one this year.
All in all nice vids you produce and share with us.
I cannot shoot it without moving my head. Watch where the bolt comes to. Also, I cannot reach the trigger in a meaningful manner with my middle finger while holding the bolt.
Swen sounds like a video challenge! Please video and post on YT.
@@BlokeontheRange You should update your face to swiss version.
More please!!!! I’d love to see some mannlichers and the enbloc issues!
This series is bloody interesting, alright. I know it's not purely scientific, but it does give a raw estimation based on a single shooter, and could be considered representative. Obviously a K31 master who's only ever shot K31s might be faster, but you represent the 'average' very well as you're well versed in all these rifles. I'm perhaps most interested to see the eventual Mosin tests, to see how much slower it is than its contemporaries. Reloads will likely be a bit slower, and I'd be willing to be you'll slow down over the course of fire as the bolt, even on a clean, non-sticky rifle, can be a bit of a bear to work on. I'm also very interested to see how the Austrian straight-pulls compare to the Swiss ones, as well as stripper vs en bloc loading. This standardized testing for old-school rifles is very entertaining at the very least, and I'd argue it's educational...so far, it seems most rifles are pretty comparable and the differences aren't huge. Really enjoying the videos thus far, and congrats on getting near enough 50k! I'm sure by next week's video, you'll be there so I'm congratulating you in advance!
He is probably a good bit above an average shooter.
If the problem with reloading is getting the 6th round in, you ever tried only loading 5? Sure, less capacity, but if it results in faster reloads...?
Old comment but it doesn't matter how many there are in the mag, the thig that makes it hard is you don't have a cutout for your thumb like a k98
Maybe there's a Swiss Champion Mad Minute Meister, who grew up with these rifles and could better that effort with his highly developed right thumb, but that was still a devastating rate of fire !! Well done. I am off to see if these rifles are prone to clogging in muddy conditions having seen pictures of the stripped action. (The Swiss fighting over rocks and avoiding low ground would not be so prone to this problem perhaps ?? ) Anyway, all rifles, like most beers, are very good !! Cheers !!
I am posting this again, slightly altered, as something weird happened with you tube moving my reply to the past year.
Let's see what happens this time.
a good trick with the K31: you can actually fit 7.5 Swiss pretty easily on stripper clips for Swedish mausers or Mosin stripper clips, but of course you can only load 5 instead of 6. but at the same time, they are a lot easier to load into the magazine, plus both stripper clips are cheaper (at least here in the US).
If I had the money I would have bought the K31 that was at the range I was at recently. They are such beautiful shooting guns and that are gorgeous to look at too. They also aren't as expensive in TX as the SMLE I really want is.
Maybe there's a Swiss Champion Mad Minute Meister, who grew up with these rifles who could better that effort with his highly developed right thumb, but that was still a devastating rate of fire !! Well done. I am off to see if these rifles are prone to clogging in muddy conditions having seen pictures of the stripped action. (The Swiss fighting over rocks and avoiding low ground would not be so prone to this problem perhaps ?? ) Anyway, all rifles, like most beers, are very good !! Cheers !!
These videos are very interesting. The geeky bit is fascinating. I have pondered upon the rate of fire with stripper clips and wondered (and pondered!!) on how fast the rate would be if several loaded magazines were used. If you imagine a section, platoon or even a company firing a mad minute, I wonder what the beaten zone would look like. Your videos provoke much thought.........and pondering!
Oh, there's lots interesting on this topic coming up. And you might like to ponder for the difference between loaded magazines on the range, and loaded magazines taken from (and empty magazines returned to) pouches :)
Very nerdy, but interesting. Good job. Love ya Bloke:)
Wooowie that looks like a sweet-shootin' action. It looks and sounds decidedly, well, Swiss. I've been watching some of your stuff and I might be catching the bolt-action bug. I only own semis and have had limited experience with 1903s and shot a Mosin.Wasn't too impressed then but now I think I'm starting to see the beauty in them and the skill and technique utilized in operating them.
I love the geeky analysis.
Such a great bolt.
I have a Williams peep sight mounted on my 1911 carbine. As a youth in the late 1960's I fell in love with the Schmidt Rubins that my father and I saw in the Southern Cal gun stores. I got one for a birthday present (in 1971, I think). I was jealous of the Swiss diplomats who shot their K-31's at the Fish Canyon (In Azusa, Ca. , closed now) rifle range, they seemed so much sleeker. We reloaded resized 284 win brass at first. Later we found some Norma brass, but it was expensive. One the first gun things I did as an adult was pay a gunsmith to mount a Williams peep sight on the receiver. At that time they made a sight that could be mounted on the Schmidt Rubin without too much trouble. The sight has served me well. It was of their "F-P" line, not the same as their modern FP sights, I'm afraid. Still it might be worth contacting Williams to see if they still have a sight that they recommend. I have photos of the sight and even the box, as I have kept it all this time (since ~1978) but it doesn't seem that I can post photos in the comment. The sight cost $20.50 and the labor was $12.50, I have the receipt to prove it! The receiver did have to be drilled and there was a minor amount wood removal on the stock.
Need to sweep up some empties Bloke! ha ha Love the rapid fire with this beautiful K31. I am currently trying to get some stripper clips for mine (rocking horse poo comes to mind) :) And trying to get a spare magazine! I think Lucky 13 need to make a 10 shot magazine for these.
I can hear Alex from TFB TV a couple of years ago blathering about the inefficient bolt placement of the K31
He also claimed it had no primary extraction, lol :D
Interesting comparison
This has me really wondering about the Italian M1891, which also has a 6 round reload but potentially faster reload due to the en-bloc clip. If it could average a 2.1 sec split-time and 6 second reload you could get a 24 shot mad minute.
I know a 2.1 sec split is a bit much for the M1891 which is hardly known as a smooth or short action but it's got less recoil and if it's a turn down bolt it might be just about as good as a Mauser 98.
You should try this with the 1914/1917 Enfield,...amazingly slick bolt.
Have done. Video at an indeterminate time in the future. Spoiler: it's slower on the splits than this. Not a lot, but it's slower.
Ergonomics of the K11 I would agree are better. The balance of the rifle, easier reloads, etc. I think I prefer the K11 for certain types of shooting. However the 300 m zero creates an issue on small targets 100 yards or less.
Trackball FTW (also Open Office, too!)
Straight-Pull’s are usually superior when prone since there’s more wrist movement than arm movement.
This series proves that statement wrong... The top rifles are a mix of turnbolt and straight pulls, and there is also a straight pull down the list alongside the 98k too.
I would be curious to watch a mad minute with this rifle without all the flubs!!! 🤠👍🇨🇭
Could you maybe do a mad hour video? That would be great. Thanks!
But seriously, I know that in switzerland a lot of these rifles get scraped because people hand them in. Is it possible for me as a german to get one of these and export it?
If you can find someone willing to do the export and paperwork, then yes you can.
Yeah you /really/ gotta shove the rounds in with your thumb, like, no matter how far down you think you need to go, go one further.
Also, it'll work a little better if you fiddle with the clips, they get bent over time, and don't feed the rounds perfectly. They were meant to be used once then thrown out, so they aren't very sturdy. And modern plastic repros don't feed the 6th round properly at all.
It also helps to put on a big winter coat or put a limbsaver on the end to get the butt out to modern ergonomics.
I wonder if a K11 would be faster based on the consistency of reloads alone, since the magazine presents higher
Aaaaand you address that 30 seconds after I made the comment
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
K31's go for the $1k range in Canada. One would think that with the potential market, bulk surplus exports are still a thing?
There are bulk exports to various countries indeed.
Ive heard of steel mauser-esque stripper clips for the K31. Any idea if those are really around or would help?
I have one. They're unicorns. They're worse.
Is it possible to only load 5 rounds in the charger? If so, would that help the reloads? Thank you. ; )
Needs modification to the charger otherwise they flop around in there.
@@BlokeontheRange with those chargers being tricky to find in the states, it'd be considered a sin.
The K31 is used extensively in CMP vintage rifle matches here in the States. Course of fire in rapid is 10 shots requiring a mandatory 5 round reload. Hot glue two small dowels at the top of the stripper and it holds five round easily. That reload does require some experience to drive the thumb deep to insure the 5th rounds seats. They are amazing accurate and easy to shoot rifles. Check out the National Vintage Military Rifle Match results at this page ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.php?do=match&task=edit&tab=results&match=18060 to see how many K31 are represented at the US Nationals.
You mention getting hold of a ten-round magazine for the K31. What about getting hold of one of the 20 round magazines for the Lee-Enfield? There were not many issued, but they were used in WWI, so actually a military tool, not a range tool.
The 20 round SMLE mags are absolute unobtainium, unfortunately...
Bloke on the Range
Fair enough! It would be interesting to see :) Did anyone else bother developing such a large mag for their military bolt-actions?
The Germans did in WW1, the so-called "trench magazine", and the US had some aircraft rifles with a similar arrangement too.
Are you going to do the 1893 Cavalry carbine?
yes
Using this at distance there's not much disadvantage compared to using an early semi auto. Up close though having to work the bolt between shots would be a bit hairy.
Have you ever seen a Matchstutzer Model 47?
Yes, I have :)
I’d be interested
I love my K31. Could be because it's my only bolt action, but unlikely. As far as straight pull bolt rifles go, I wonder what the difference would be between say the K11 and the allegedly fast , though problematic, Ross Rifle.
Nick u the Ross rifle was a target rifle the bolt was no problem when the rifle was used as a target rifle.the problem cropped up when trying to make a target rifle into a combat rifle in ww1.
Would it not be better to then load 5 rounds into clips after the first one?
Not historically accurate to do that. Might do it later to see if it makes a difference though!
In the action up to the knuckle?
Do you think your firing rate could be improved by starting with 6 and then loading only 5? If it's only the last round giving you the problems, do you think this would give you more time firing instead of reloading?
The reloads would be helped, but the point of doing this with the shot timer is that we can split that out, cos the interesting thing is the shot-to-shot splits.
It would also not be historically accurate to load in 5's, hence doing it the "proper" way here. I foresee a lightly-modded K31 going even faster in the future :)
I really enjoy the channel. You guys have a laid back approach to shooting, which i appreciate it. What's the going price for a K31 in Switzerland?
Private sale? CHF 50.- to 100.-, in a shop, about 150.-
@@BlokeontheRange Thanks for the info. The price in Canada has jumped a lot in the last couple of years. We use to get them for $300 Canadian, now they average around $800.
Where do you find these rifles "for free" in Switzerland ? I'm Swiss, and I wouldn't know where to look if I wanted one.
Friends say they've got them kicking around and don't want them any more, but don't want to hand them in to the Polizei or Zeughaus to be crushed.
Hmh, so you have to have friends that own these. Ok, will get on that ! :D
Join a shooting club in Switzerland, and ask arround- many of your camrades have a K31, K11 or JG11 laying arround - a few days after Asking I had 4 K31's and a JG11 - for the 2 K31 with a Diopter, i Payed 50 Franks each and the other ones where for free
Wow, wich part of Switzerland are you living in ?
Just ask your local gun dealer. A K31 is available in Switzerland from around 200 up to you guess it. A guy wanted to buy mine last year for 2000 bucks :) I dont sell it ever!
Why don't you ever see a swiss sporter (professionally done and in Switzerland) with a suppressor?
Cos suppressors need an exemption permit, and are mostly seen on modern stuff.
@@BlokeontheRange i gotcha. Regarding GRS rifle stocks. I think a k31 that needs some TLC would benefit a lot from a GRS stock. Especially if its been chopped up by bubba.
The K31 Eidgenoss would be cool to be in a mad Minute
I saw down in the comments someone asking about K31 clip availability. Is it possible to have some shipped from there to here if they are plentiful? I would like to have several for my K31 and K11. Both exceptional firearms. Keep up the great work by the way!
They're not plentiful here - I have plenty since I've bought a fair bunch when I couldn.
Bloke on the Range I see. Thank you for the reply. I'll have to see what the aftermarket has to offer.
Will the Ross make an appearance?
If we can ever find one...
Is that M for Bloke and L for Lloyd in your spreadsheet tabs there?
It is indeed :) Well spotted. Have a cookie :D
Your name is Mike McBloke?
is the mad minute only for bolt actions if not the m-1 mad minute whould be interesting to see
I've done an M1. It's the most boring :D
I can tell he is British he tried to run it like an Enfield on the second shot. Maybe a genuine swiss would be faster operating the rifle.
Where do you get the chargers ?
mostly at gunshows
It would be interesting to see if you start with 6 rounds in the magazine but only fire 5 (leaving always a round in) would result in a shorter reload as you would not have to press so deep.
No, he does it wrong. They go in very easily in one smooth move, all 6 of them. The move can be done with the thumb, but I find it more natural to do it with the index finger. But he's right about the K11. I prefer it in many ways over the K31. However, I shoot standard sights, with iris sights the K31 is slightly more precise, and on the range reload time really doesn't matter.
what would happen if you had an unlimited amount of loaded magazines as opposed to the stripper clips?
It would be quicker. This is something we'll look at
i think a long magazine could be fabricated from the originals..just cut off the bottom and use long spring and weld on the magazine from another weapon
I'm not sure if this was ever asked, but the target is what size and at what range?
It's a standard ISSF 10m air pistol target at about 20m.
My family scrapped one years ago... was sad... was under an L permit so I couldn`t take it...
Can you put the previous results in the text - makes for an easy comparison that way.....
I'll share a spreadsheet at an opportune moment once I've got through the first 4 rifles and my discussion of Lindybeige's efforts.
OK, thank you
Do you think the softer recoil of a Langgewehr would make a difference?
No. Not at all. I don't think recoil comes into the equation here at all (subject for a future vid in which I give it loads with a No.4 and cast bullets at 1100fps). The Langgewehr bolts are typically stiffer, which is unlikely to help in any case, and are more tiring from their weight.
I may know your problem bloke as i use OBS as well for my recording. You need to make sure that if you are using a separate microphone that your webcam mic is turned off or muted within OBS. Otherwise you get this "double Mic" issue that you are having. Try muting your webcam mic in your source window.
That's what I'll do next time I film one of these (which will hopefully be today)
It was indeed today. And OBS was even kind enough to let me mute the microphone after starting, so I could clap to synchronise the 2 tracks! :D
Bloke on the Range fantastic! Glad to see them resolved!
I know why hitler did not dare to invade switzerland in ww2, because swiss has a great country's militia system, higher ratio of gun-owner population, and of course this great K31 rifle.
Trackball supremacy btw. :-)
Just like Bloke, it's an antique.
The K/G11 is faster than the K31 due to shorter bolt travel as a result of rear locking lugs.
Agskytter You must have a very rare Swiss submariners K/G11 then to have rear locking lugs.
@@thebotrchapThe locking lugs on the K11 locks in the receiver to the rear of the magazine. Thus there are no locking lugs at the front of the magazine like on a Mauser 98 or the K31. The bolt on a K11 then needs a shorter travel to chamber a round from the magazine to the chamber. So, technically, the G11 is a rear lug design like the Steyr SSG69 and Sauer 80/90.
Agskytter The G1889 has true rear locking lugs. The 11 series moves them substantially further forward (even if still behind the mag well). If you include the travel of the cocking piece, the K31 only has a 5mm greater bolt throw. Not enough to give an edge as you will see when we publish the mad minute.
Having said that, I prefer operating a K/G11 bolt which I think is far smoother. It’s just a shame that the magazine is so far forward when reloading.
@@thebotrchap Well, the edge the K11 has over the K31 was enough that the K11 was the preferred action of these in the old Olympic shooting event "Running deer doubles" (that they still shoot at Bisley). Hammerli made custom K11 running deer rifles for some Norwegian shooters in 6,5x55.
Ross, M95 and Norwegian Krag was the most popular military actions for this event. The Soviets used custom Ross in 7,62x54R up until they made a civil straight pull rifle in 220 Russian, parent of 6PPC, in the beginning of the 60'ies. Have a look at this extremely customized M95M for this event to be used in the 1956 Melbourne Olympics by the 1952 Olympic champ: ruclips.net/video/TzLZ4anr-c0/видео.html The Soviets won gold with a Ross in '56.
Running deer doubles: ruclips.net/video/u1Xp__8k038/видео.html
Hello,
I have a question but hope i can my problem explain in German.
Also ich hab mir einen K31 gekauft, aber in .308 ausführung. Diese Karabiner wurden von Lizensierten Büchsenmachern umgebaut. Also neuer Lauf. Mir ist nun aufgefallen, dass ich mit billiger munition aus der schuttpackung, nach 4 schuss die leere hülse aus dem patronenlager mit sehr viel kraft rausgezogen bekomme.
Mit markenmunition von Remington war das nicht so schlimm, aber trotzdem funktioniert der Verschluss nicht so leichtgängig wie in deinen videos. Wodran liegts ? Hast du vielleicht eine Idee ?
chlechte Hülsen, die kleben. Ist auch manchmal so mit Surplus-Munition in Repetierer (habe dänische 7.62mm in einem Steyr Scout geschossen, musste den Verschluss offenhämmern)
Bloke on the Range also ist die Waffe nicht defekt oder, sondern man muss nach der richtigen Muni suchen. Ich dachte auch daran weil die Waffe noch neu ist, sehr enge passungen hat, dadurch das problem auftaucht.
Danke für deine Antwort, geniale videos, auch wenn ich manchmal beim zuhören nicht alles verstehe ist es sehr informativ. Zum schluss muss ich dich noch fragen welchen diopter du empfehlen würdest ?
Danke! eigentlich ziehe ich kein Diopter vor, alle passende sind gut. Ich liebe meinen W+F K-Diopter, da ich den kleinen Tunnel besser mit Blockkorn finde. Aber mit Ringkorn wäre etwas grösseres besser.
Lebel mad minute when?
Lovely. Ta.
Lee Harvey Oswald should have picked this critter??
Wasn't needed . . .
if you find a 10 round magazine for sale let me know and I will buy it, and let you borrow it for a video...
Do you have a good source for k31 chargers in America they are not common.
i'm not in America, so sorry, no.
How common are the charges and how much to they usually run?
PickelJars ForHillary he's in Switzerland so it would be cheap. There is a company in the US that makes polymer ones. It's like 2 for $12 or something like that.
He's in Switzerland?!?!?!?
PickelJars ForHillary Yep. Just look at his other videos. He lives in Switzerland.
I was wondering why he kept saying "Here in Switzerland" in all his videos. You are so cool for letting me know that.
PickelJars ForHillary lol.
Are you familiar with the Merkel rx Helix? I know it‘s not a military rifle but it should be one of the fastest ones
Fast with good,expensive ammo and far away from dirt. Met two hunters who sold theirs because the action stuck repeatedly.
It struck me as not very robust when I saw one in a gunshop. I like the fully enclosed bolt idea, but I suspect that this comes at a price.
Ragnar 33 wow did not know about that
.303 for the wiiiiiiiin. And we know the mauserfanboiz are gonna hate that test *evil chortle*
Do you have an opinion on which is faster the SMLE or the no 4?
I've not shot an SMLE for this series yet, but they tend to be just a touch smoother than a No.4 in my experience. But then the sights are less good for this kind of work. Whether any of that will make any significant difference I don't know.
Bonjour, je possède un k11 et je suis à la recherche de stripper ou éventuellement de magasins. Pouvez vous me dire où vous avez trouvé les votres ?
à des bourses, normalement.
Wonder how a Ross or Mannlicher compares?
For a Mannlicher, you'll find out. Haven't come across a Ross yet.
How many meter away from the target ?
about 20
K-11 or 12 mag Mad Minutes?
Bloke hi, what about a 1889 with 12 rounds? Now that would be a turn up for the books if that were fastest?
I could tell you how that went, but you'll have to wait ;)
Sweet! (Anxiously waiting...)
I notice that you did not comment on the difference between you and lindy. This coming up in a seperat vid? Besides that gj
There'll be a vid about his minutes after I've finished my first 4 :)
Late to the show sorry. Serious question. I love the k-31 and all swiss rifles. I also Love sporter rifles. But i hate poorly done sporters that destroy a rifle. That being said I found that GRS make their laminate models in BLANKS. Which theoretically means I can have a GRS Stock for a k31! I don't believe in cutting up a perfectly good k31 so I would do this to a rifle that bubba already got his hands on but how cool does that sound?
Are you ever going to try this with a Mosin-Nagant or do you not yet hate yourself enough?
I've done it with a Mosin in competition back in the day. But yes, we hate ourselves enough to do it with both a straight-handle and a bent handle one!
We all know the Lebel mad minute is the the one we truly want to see
We will shortly have enough tube mag safe cases to do it!
i would say 20 rounds is very doable with the Mosin :)
Bloke on the Range awesome! Are you going to be starting with 8,9 or 10? Or is that to be revealed in the future?
Why is it that there are no more imports of k31s or k11s to the USA if theyre still so plentiful and cheap in Switzerland?
Cos it's not worth people's time and effort to export them. So many end up in the shredder since some dealers won't even take them for free so people hand them into the cops/army.
Bloke on the Range what? K31s go for 6 to 3 times the price of what they go for in Switzerland(100 francs for a k31?) in the us. They are definitely worth to export. If they're seriously being shredded that isn't only a travesty but just complete and utter idiocy when they can be sold for a profit to Americans that would willingly buy them.
If it was worth it, people would be doing it.
I suspect that the margin is so tiny that only a couple of bigger firms are still interested in doing it. You pay 600. End dealer probably pays 300. Importer probably only 200, if that. 10 on a pallet will cost a couple of hundred to package and ship, and the paperwork at this end is 50.-leaving the Swiss dealer with say 1750 max for dealing with 10 rifles, assuming he got them for free. In the meantime he has to store the rifles (which has a cost even if sunk), and his time costs money too.
Or, he can sell one Blaser hunting rifle with a nice bit of glass on it and make way more than that for less effort.
Bloke on the Range have costs simply increased from before? Classic firearms used to have plenty of Swiss rifles in stock.
Exporting is more hassle than it used to be and IIRC costs a LOT more at the US end than it used to.
M134 mad minute pls
That was a joke btw
how about not fully emptying the strpper clip and not be so greedy.......just have several clips that already have a round left in them?
Not sure what you mean there... if you mean only push 5 of 6 into the mag and pull out the charger, you're going to be dealing with a loose round that may or may not have fallen into the action or might remain in the charger.
i agree, it would have to take some practice,and i imagine if your hands are freezing cold , you might not be able to use your thumb to force that final round into the magazine.........on a different topic, have you considered cutting the magazine and welding a longer similar size magazine onto the original?.......maybe a 20 round or whatever?
Someone is currently butchering me a mag more or less along those lines :)
how about turning a dummie round into a "pusher ".....by brazing a thumb "button" on it, and then your thumb will only have to travel flush with the bolt
..the dummie would be a permanent part of the charging clip
i would also like to know what size magazine holds and feeds 7.5 ammo if were to be butchered and welded to an original magazine to increase it to 10 rounds or so
Mad Minute 33...;)
Not as fast as a lee enfield.... but I think if you had a lot of other guys shooting at a similar rate, that would be a terrifying amount of in coming fire to be receiving
Should anybody be interested. Ive got a video mud testing one of these. The results were unexpected.
Swiss GP11 is also the absolute best milsurp ammunition ever made..303 ammunition is complete shite.
The accuracy requirement for .303 Mk.VII was a Figure of Merit of 8" or less at 600 yds from an SMLE in a special rest (ToSA 1928 p. 239)... US .30 M2 ball had to run 7.5" mean radius (same thing, different terminology) at 600 yds, and .30 M2 AP had to run 10" mean radius at the same distance (Hatcher's Notebook p. 394). Guess they must be "complite shite" too, lol :p
That's because all of the good stuff has been shot years ago, so you're left with the dire stuff no one wanted to buy until everything else was gone.
Dead man
Alive lad
Love the video. What kind of shooting mat are you using?
Greetings from Norway!
Alf
Something bought in the UK 15+ years ago
have you seen stang shooting from norway?
ruclips.net/video/PhMW_bodQVo/видео.html
not 300 yards and not 1minute but damn these guys have got it down
I don't know what the record for them is but maybe 15-16 shots in 25sec on a target 250 meters away is awesome
Yes, I have seen it, and it's very impressive. I'd like to see it done with as-issued un-tricked-out rifles too :)
some of those Krags compete pretty stock except for better sights, and the AG3 are stock but semis so kinda cheating. great to see shooting as a big popular spectator sport thou
if I could go back in time and redesign the k31 I probably would make it middle fingerable. I know that kind of rapid fire is a British thing, but I can't help but think a straight pull that you could middle finger would be a fantastic idea.
Just make a longer extendet lower "barrel" piece of the boltgrip This will move your hand lower on the gun next to the Trigger.
Middle finger bolt action shooting is common in Norway. Search for "stangskyting" or "mad minute challenge" (world record with a SIG Sauer STR).
03:23 hahahahaha infinite replay
What I dislike about that system is having to take your head away from the sights. That pretty much negates the advantage of the straight pull. Why it wasn't designed to give the best of both worlds is beyond me.
Think they went with shorter OAL by shortening the stock. You can put a Boyds Stock on the system and maintain sight picture works for me.
I use a simple slide-on recoil pad to add ~1.5" - I can maintain a cheek weld with that and the rubber keeps it planted in my shoulder
There are very few military bolt-action rifles you can cycle without taking your eye from the sights. And as you can see, it's still as fast as my No.4 (which I had to take my eye from the sights on cos it's got a short butt and I'm not small).
Still, it is possible to shot it with your eye staying on sights... maybe i should do a video on this
It might be possible for you. It is not possible for me.
Cant wait to see the Nagant mad minute with stripper clips.
not bad if you get a good one.
"How many rounds can you get downrange in a minute Ivan." "Oh, a lot, I can sometimes get 10 rounds downrange in a single minute."
We have a reasonable Finn M24 in the BoTR arsenal.
1883
I hate the term "geeky"....as if any study of scientific, technical, Engineering or mathematical things is deviant. It's almost as if it's a given these days anyone interested in such matters is Asperger's. Well no.... The reality is if you are not interested in such matters you are a possibly a fucking dunce. Political correctness gone mad. Nice shooting by the way. I am tempted by the K31. It's Swiss and the straight pull thing seems logical and well executed
Well if it helps it's easy to put a 12 round '89 magazine in a 96/11; a friend has converted such a rifle.
Mad Minute more like Mad Miss-it haha yes.