Which is Better? LMT LM8 MWS vs. KAC SR-25 E2 APR
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
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i love the fire in his eyes whenever he talks about the forward assist
I love all your videos that you have put out and myself have a Colt collection I have been working on since a young age. My story is similar to falling in love with a A1 at a young age. Unfortunately I never got the opportunity to work for colt, but have you ever done a video on Griffin armament, a company here in Watertown Wisconsin and it seems they are putting out some fantastic firearms and thank you for all the great content you provide us.
The fact that we live in a world where gun bunnies and people far less knowledgeable have WAY more views and su s than this man makes me sad. I like watching Demolition Ranch and the like but this is the man who's knowledge and opinion i value.
great info as always
@@RaZeRbLaDeZ So just to sum up the video. The LMT is better in every measurable category and half the price of the Knights
Where does the Knights out shine the LMT? @@RaZeRbLaDeZ
@@RaZeRbLaDeZ what makes the KAC 10 percent better? How are we calculating these arbitrary percentages?
I can hear this man talk about rifles all day.... Love your channel man.
same comment as always ahah, love your channel bro
Watching this in 2023 and the SR-25 is now $7,000 while the LMT MARS-H with DMR stock is about $3,800. Makes the decision a no brainer for LMT
You’re the man
You are a wealth of digestible content, my friend. Very appreciated and under appreciated 😉👍💪🏻
Whips out an Honest-To-God M110, just for example's sake. LOL
Major flex
The really crazy part is he still had 2, arguably, better rifles on the table.
Man I'd be to giddy with all that awesomeness on one table.
LMT
I love this channel!!! Thank you so much for this plethora of knowledge brother.
Damn LMT was 3 10ths of an inch MORE ACCURATE than Knights M110!!!! Didn’t expect that. I see why the British picked it.
1st Video I have seen of yours. Incredible thanks!
Super informative. I am researching a my first hunting and home defense and I can say the review is much needed thanks.
very cool I was one of many shooters that shot the various early SR25 prototypes in that Vero beach range/orange grove behind Knights, putting PMC ball into MOA or smaller groups, and Winchester 168 match ammo into one ragged hole. Both systems are excellent the original SR 25 rivaled a good bolt gun for accuracy at the time.
The gas block on the Kac is a flared tube and flare nut connection. 👍
Just like the brake pipes on your car.
@@fridgemagnett Refrigerant gas pipes use alot of flared and nut connections from 1/4inch up to 7/8inch. This rifle looks just like a 1/4 ref/gas flare, wonder if the rifle builder used to be an HVAC engineer. like me 🤣
He did mention that the KAC had a better gas system than the LMT.
I like the monolithic upper with the Knights gas block.
I know that this is a relatively old video, but I just have to comment anyway. I happen to have two different variations of the SR-25 and one LMT, and quite honestly, I wish that I wouldn't have purchased the SR-25's. To me KAC rifles aren't worth the extra money over LMT.
Great video :-) I also thought I would point out that our army over here in Britain has decided to remove the LSW, FN Minimi, and mortars from squad level, and bring in more LMT sharpshooters, alongside the upgraded L85 A3. From the experience in Afghanistan, they've decided that its better to have more precision shooting than suppression fire, plus trying to keep the weight down. I think they've been influenced by the IAR program from the US Marines as well....
Liam Shipsey to be fair the LSW was a dead man walking from the get go and the 51mm mortar was only really any good for flares and smoke now the 40mm has took over we can use that for HE and the FN minimi are pretty fucked now the FN mag (GPMG) should take its place
MrTangolizard Better with a modernised Bren. Imagine, light alloy receiver, composite hardware, ammo in quick change mags instead of dragging a belt around, more range than a minimi, less weight than a GPMG.
SvenTviking no a belt fed machine gun doesn’t have the built in stoppage every time u change mags FN do a very nice modernised FN MAG the m240L
@@MrTangolizard True the 240 is a much better weapon than 249. However no mag fed Bren can replace the need for a big belt fed role.
Door Spook absolutely belt fed machine guns are always going to be needed
Before the video I'd say LMT. Hands down.
Damn Chris, your content get better with every video. Loving the channel. Keep up the good work!
Great video Chris, I realy appreciate the history and detailed information you bring to the table.
Speeding of, that's a nice table you have now.
I have both. For those who are interested in a user comparison. The sr25 shoots better suppressed than the lmt. The sr25 in a 16" length is lighter weight than the lmt in a 13.5" length. The lmt has tighter fitment between the upper and lower. I've had more malfunctions with the lmt suppressed than the sr25. The knights comes with a better trigger. The lmt mars h lower is a better ambi lower than the sr25. The lmt recoil harder than the sr25. Hope this helps.
Great vid as always. Like the new lighter, brighter setup!
Your channel is a wealth of information!
LMT seems to mop the floor with the SR-25. Cheaper price, more part compatibilities, 3/10" more accurate during your firing demonstrations, etc. One thing I like more about the SR-25 is the handguard. That URX-4 is just beautiful.
agreed, it is. I believe LMT started using the m-lok design on there hand guards now.
Nice video, sir!
It was a very politically correct summation. It’s like: if you want a gas system that’s been upgraded for no reason and a name do KAC. What you should have said after that is: If you want everything else to be better and have an equally good name, just do the LMT.
Monolithic upper, switchable calibers is a win for me, but you can’t go wrong with either.
@T D yup
I have the LMT MWS with the pic rail. i just bought a new 13.5 barrel for it . i had the 16 inch chrome lined one already . looking to get a 20 inch setup for it as well.. i love this Rifle.
Just got the mws with 16 chrome barrel. Did you find a factory load that it loved? Haven't shot mine yet but was gonna go pick up a few boxes and see what she likes.
I love the new table. The contrast is better.
Thank you for the video. Wealth of knowledge.
Lwrc for the win
I like LMT AR15 piston driven platform very much
Thanks for such a detailed review and comparison. I love my MWS, got it for just under $3,000 from a LGS. Gun is 100% reliable, all I use is PMags. It's as as accurate as I can shoot with a 1-8x scope at my current max of 200 yards. Of course the 1/10 twist like 168 and 175 grain bullets over the 7.62 nato's of 147 or 149.
Before i knew LMT came out with the MWS, (I own a circa 2010 Defender) I got the Savage MSR10LR. its the same way, it'll throw standard nato ball ammo, but those 168s are tack drivers.
@@GIboy1990 I'm in the market for a 20" - 24" AR-10. I was thinking about the Savage. Also many higher end ones out there such as JP enterprises, & the ones shown above. What is your take on the Savage?
@@steffeness1 id swap out the trigger on it. You definitely do bump fire the Blackhawk trigger by accident. Also had a few double feeds out of pmags. Its favorite ammo is probably the black hills 168s BTHP's standard m80 ball ammo shoots like a 3-5moa group.
@@GIboy1990 3-5 MOA shooting a Savage MSR 10LR? Or you talkin' the type of ammo only? Your talkin' m80 ball ammo which I don't know anything about that.
@@steffeness1 yeah it really doesn't like the 147 grain milspec ammo. Which unfortunately is the cheapest 308 I've seen.
My nephew had an sr-25 in afghanistan & said it was ‘his girl.’ He spoke very fondly of its capabilities and performance. Based on that I went looking for one to purchase, but quickly realized I couldn’t afford it.
Thank you for a great video.
Thank You for your thoughts on both platforms... I found your video to be excellent.
Love both platforms, alas one is way out of my price range, and so I truly came here for your thoughts on the LMT.
Figured I would also learn a few things on the SR-25.
$1500 (US) savings... can buy ALOT of ammo to have fun.
Great rifles, great review 👍
Great video. As to the forward assist...there are circumstances where it helps a lot. Think taking it out of a bag, putting it together and loading it quietly....
I heard him go into detail on other videos about why he does not prefer the forward assist. He does mention that particular benefit you suggested, but mentioned several more negatives.
ruclips.net/video/SAiuTq1N_BM/видео.html) 1:18:39 - First Operation as a Shooter, guess he would be a dead man walking if he wasn't lucky enough to get out of there.
I've always liked and preferred the SR-25, never had any issues with it. I understand why some would prefer the LM8 over it though.
Great session!
I want to like the SR-25 more. But I think you're better off getting the LMT and spending the other $1500 on extra barrels for it.
You mean $4000?
Chris the rear of the LMT carrier had a slight flair with small skis ? That was a nice touch.
Great review comparison.
Awesome video
wow look at the difference in ejection, that is really something.
Please review some larue!!
will you review a Larue OBR?
If I can ever get one. They won’t loan one
Maybe it's my imagination but the LMT MARS-L has a much nicer flared magwell vs the KAC SR-15 lower.
the greatest, most technical and thorough reviews on the tube bar none and as usual.thanks for bringing these two awesome beasts to us!
i just see Knights asking a large premium for the name.
im not saying the quality and innovation isnt there because it is
but with 2 rifles so similiar, you would expect comparable prices.
yet we see the LMT which arguably has more advancements, equal quality and maybe even better features, is $1,400 LESS!
thats kinda hard to resolve imo.
i think KACs inflated image has gone right to the bottom line.
$1,400! thats 14 cool, crisp hundred dollar bills! 14 of them!
i just dont know if the club is worth the membership there. atleast not for me.
but i certainly wont fault anyone who feels it is. to each his own.
hey Chris, you gave a very favorable review of the DD5V1.
im wondering how you feel it would stack up against these two as far as battlefield capability and durability.
do you think the DD5V1 is as competent as these two thoroughly vetted warriors?
thanks in advance!
Randy Kirkham I think these are the top two period.
SmallArmsSolutions - roger that. thank you sir.
the DD5V1 battle worthy or strictly civy rec rifle only?
Randy Kirkham the DD has no combat use record. Not that I am aware. The KAC and LMT are battle tested and proven.
Is the LMT highly reliable suppressed?
I know its minor but I hate the standard grips of the KAC. Id go with the LMT but I run a DD5v2 :)
Chris was on an episode of the greatest military clashes M16 vs AK47 check it out
Got my shirt in the mail today, very cool. Thanks for the great content.
Now I kind of want to see the 5.56 version of this comparison... SR-15 E3 Mod 2 vs. MRP MARS-L.
emu4286 same here!
@@RaZeRbLaDeZ which would you take to war with you and why.
@@RaZeRbLaDeZ Nah.
@Fix Bayonets Ive owned an LMT for 10 years. fired probably 5k before upgrading the BCG and canning it. ive worn 2 barrels out on my LMT. not once have i had a malfunction on my LMT.
@Fix Bayonets same here. i currently own 4 lmts, and many more in the past. One of my lmt mrp i have put maybe 16k rounds through it, in which half were speed mag dumps, and the only thing i've changed out on that rifle is a buffer spring, and a few o rings. The rifle still shoots moa or under. I can count on one hand how many failures ive had with that rifle. Also customer service is top notch. They sent me a new upper because the guy i got the upper from tried to unscrew the brake with the barrel on, and mangled the upper.
I have the LMT 7.62 but the new knights looks like an even newer system so that's awesome. LMT apparently is coming out with their own mars 7.62 lower though
My understanding is that it's already out, just very hard to find. It already shows on their website
It is already out
Great info. I had a question about the m110. Could you please do video on the m110 vs the m14 ebr accuracy and reliability of the two systems. Thanks.
Really enjoy your vids! would love to hear your thoughts on the Larue OBR compared to these.
James Purcell I have never had access to one.
@@SmallArmsSolutions interested in playing with one? I may be able to make that work
Please, I hope you could help each other do a Larue video
I would love to see a Larue comparison also. Thanks again for the great video and keep it up!
I'd like to see a Larue on the channel. I love my Larue trigger.
Chris i believe that the LMT dual ejector pattern will keep the case more concentric to the bore in relation ship with a trued match grade barrel/upper specs. For instance some benchrest shooters remover the ejector from their bolt action rifles for that purpose and a few others.
Very good point, I never considered that. With that being said, do you thing the extractor pull on the casing while in battery influences the case like the ejectors do?
Big diff in price I will take the LMT
Both are very nice!👍💥
Pretty cool to hear the LWRC REPR mentioned in such great company. I own a REPR and it has been very accurate (sub MOA) and reliable. I also own a LWRC SPR AR-15 and KAC SR-15 both phenomenal reliability as I would be willing to trust my life to either without hesitation. I also wouldn’t mind owning a LMT as I believe they make a great rifle but at the moment I don’t so I can’t offer a response on accuracy or reliability. I can say I believe KAC and LWRC to be at the top of the AR game when it comes to accuracy, reliability, and build quality.
Rick
Just bought a LWRCI-A5 Piston in 5.56. Curious to know if you think the DI has just a little more accuracy?
@@steffeness1 not at all it’s all in the barrel as far as I’m concerned. My LWRC is just as accurate as my KAC if not even a little more at least in my samples.
@@theprepperrevelator Currently, I'm looking for something in 7.62 or 6.5 C. I own a Scar-17, but would like something in a 20" + barrel. This will be a bi-pod gun, so I'm not looking for something light. Looking for heavy, sturdy construction. Also, have the Zev AR-15 billet rifle, rated #1 in Ballistics Best Mag Jan 2020 out of about 12 top ARs. 4 testers graded them on several categories. 2nd place Savage competition model, 3rd place Sig M400 tread as best value. The Zev upper / lower fit like glue. Noveske has the same manufacture, but doesn't fit as nicely. Looking for a very tight fitting AR-10. I'm thinking about a Frakken gun if I can make it work? Never have put 1 together before. Advice? Buy 1 outright or build 1?
@@steffeness1 I like buying built complete guns because of warranty! If I wanted something like what you are describing I’d be looking at JP Enterprises.
Great 👍 info (but)
I alongside some great men that have served a couple of tours strongly disagree with your take on the forward assist.
Never the less thanks for all you do.
great video as alwayse !
What about general shooting impressions? Weight and perceived recoil?
GG these were both comparable in weight and recoil. No difference noted
@@SmallArmsSolutions Excellent thank you
RaZeRbLaDeZ Because hes an LMT fanboy
BOTH together are the single greatest American achievements, imho, w/modern combat 7.62 NATO AR-10 manufacturers (not to mention if you've had trigger time on the CWS for LMT, I was able to speak to Gene in order to get my hands on one of the first ones....ASTONISHINGLY bad as hell & this was before people saw ANY at SHOT show or in Recoil mag, so god knows how good that is now). Our team's old firm (a priv tactical sec firm under TITAN/L3 years ago) used KAC's first SR-25 EC ACC customized by a couple ret USASOC SMU memeber (as well as later, cadre) & fmr armorers. It was bad as hell, a 14" uniquely suppressed "battle carbine". Man, that should've been the new SOCOM CSASS imho
the reality is, which ever one is in your hands is the best one.
that being said, i'd take one of each lol
That's righteous my man ! You sound like a Devil dog ?
It sounds like cut and dry, the LMT is better. LMT and KAC are identical performance, however, LMT has a chrome lined barrel, meeting the same expectations as the KAC barrel which is NOT chrome lined and that is a HUGE win on LMT's side. LMT accepts any trigger group, where the KAC does not. Another win for LMT. LMT is able to provide all of it this $1,500 cheaper than KAC. Spend that $1,500 on a new optic, whatever you want.
The clear winner is LMT in both function, performance and price.
I would go LMT all the way but i actually prefer mega arm true monolithic upper (yea i know they are brought out by ZEV)
Just bought a Zev AR-15 Billet rifle, it scored #1 in Ballistics Best Mag Jan 2020 edition by 4 testers. Savage AR-15 competition rifle scored 2nd & 3rd was the Sig M400 Tread as best value. Opinion on LMT, Knights & Zev?
I have no idea why the LaRue isn't in the conversation for being a too tier AR-10. I was a lousy shot shooting 5 shot 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with no hiccup. I wish I still had that rifle.
That was awesome!
Doesn't use an M-LOK MWS in the comparison... Another pro for the LMT is that optics can be mounted anywhere on the top rail.
Excellent information, thank you.
If you do learn of an AR15 bolt carrier that has a captive firing pin retaining pins, please share. I regularly swear in 3-4 languages when dealing with that thing.
is 0:51 subliminal mind control? lol. weird editing mistake though.
“Fight club” style haha
I don't think anybody mentioned the lmt also accepts piston driven barrels and bcg Chris should have mentioned that
Patrick Goetzke not the MWS. The piston “external” only is on the MRP. I forgot nothing!
Hey Chris, great video as always! I do have one question. Why do most of the companies that chrome plate bcgs, not chrome plate the extractor? I noticed that many times now, just curious. My guess would be that the chrome might flake off with the repeated rubbing on the cartridge case. Just a wild guess though.
Why dont they use the improved extractors as on the 556 rifles? (scaled up ofc)
Maybe I'll start saving up for an lmt to compliment my scar 20s...
Anything beat the Scar-20? Is yours in 6.5 C or .308? I'm looking at options in either 6.5 C or 308 in a 20" + barrel / AR-10. Can't make up my mind? Build 1, buy a complete gun or buy a halfway complete gun & add the other parts from X, Y, Z. How would you do it over again if you could?
@@steffeness1 it's in 308. Match ammo was about the same price for both, but 308 barrels will last longer. I'd just get 2 ar10 uppers but get the 308 first to train with.
@@0Asterite0 How do you like your Scar-20 in 308 I assume? I have a Scar-17, but want something else too. Yea I know 6.5 C burns barrels faster, but not concerned with that. Think a guy can still get 5000 rounds thru a 6.5 C?
@@0Asterite0 What would be your optimal choice in a build (brands)? Lower? BCG? Barrel? Rail? Trigger? Or buy outright? What top 3 brands for appx $2000? Could spend $3000, but rather not unless I get sub MOA from avg ammunition?
@@steffeness1 scar 20 is nice but not as accurate as a cheaper ar10. I got it mostly cause I'm a collector first, shooting enthusiast second. If you're range limited to 800 yards or less, get 308. If you can shoot 800 yards or more, get 6.5cm. But reports online are a little under 3k rounds of 6.5cm before seeing velocity decrease
In 2023 it’s a pretty clear win for the LMT now. The SR-25 commands a >$3k premium on the market (unless you get extremely lucky and are able to get a complete rifle at MSRP).
Swapping barrels is extremely useful. Just note down the zeros for .308 and 6.8cm on your optic and you can switch between the calibers in
They're putting the new 3 prong on even the APRs now huh......I put a MAMS on mine.
Where the hell can I buy a MARS? Cannot find them anywhere?
LMT ALL DAY
6mm creed also
Hey Chris,.have you tried the Griffin Armament SN-ACH (Suppressor Normalized- Ambi Charging Handle)?
Ive found it to be superb. Easily my favorite. I replaced my well worn AXTS(Radian) raptor CH and havent looked back.
The SN-ACH is a big beefy beast and is super slick in operstion.
Not sure how it compares with the PRI gas buster but id love to hear your take on it and perhaps a comparo.
Any chance we can get a review?
The LMT just looks nicer.
@JeremyK 541OR. LMT has better barrels and options. Lower is not what makes the gun.
@JeremyK 541OR. Not even almost? What does even almost mean?
There is something about it which looks cooler.
What’s the weight difference? I may have missed it 😅 it seems to me that the KAC would be lighter and possibly more reliable (to the point of being to minute to matter) and the Lmt offers flexibility and modularity. I guess it depends on what the shooter values most
LMT. The M110 was not worth a crap! Reed Knight completely ripped off the military selling those! We had 2 KAC M110 out of 30 that could hold 1 MOA
I just got my mod 2 mlok. I’m not impressed. The upper/lower fit sucks, and the lower rattles. My bcm is much tighter. Yea I know the fit and finish doesn’t mean crap but it should for 2200
Buy the Zev AR Billet rifle parts, they fit like glue. Rated #1 in Ballistics Best Mag Jan 2020.
I want one of each.
Got a hold of HK yet for that m110a1?
I think people are gana go with knights for the name
I still like LWRC.
I have an LMT reference rifle paid in full for a June allocation, I wonder what the odds are of Biden making getting it impossible?
Is 6.8 spc on the AR-15 platform?
I hope civilians get a shot at the 6.8 spear soon. I bet Sig gets the contract. Gonna be weird if they go with the polymer ammo though
Awesome review! I'm a .308 fan, so your heavy focus on .308 semi autos has been really appreciated. Would love to see a video from you on the REPR. Also would be cool to see a video done on compatibility between AR10 style uppers. I know the LMT and SR25 uppers/lowers are interchangeable, and have heard the Stag 10 is a pretty close fit. Would be curious of any other potential fits as well, in particular the REPR as it has a similar cut style in the rear or the receiver.
Love the look of the LWRCI's upper. Is it compatible with other brands of ARs?
Having issues with my LMT. Just got it second hand but in absolutely excellent condition with minimal use by the looks of it. Not shot it yet but my issue is as follows. I load good quality ammunition, battery a round, drop the mag to unload but pulling the charging handle doesn’t pull the bolt back easily. It takes a VERY strong tug to get it to bring the bolt back and eject the round. (The round goes in to the barrel with ease FYI) and when the gun isn’t loaded at all, the bolt goes rearward very easily.
Can someone give me any advice, its going to an armorer if I cant figure it out. (The gun has been cleaned and oiled thoroughly fyi).
HELP lol
Alistair Hill call Gene Swanson at LMT.
Whenever someone has a problem like this they should try using quality factory ammo and see if they still have the same problem. If factory ammo doesn’t cause the same issue then you know the reloads are the problem.
Maybe you need a small base sizing die. Maybe the bullets are loaded too long and hit the lands. Maybe the neck is slightly bulged from applying too much crimp. Or maybe the chamber is very tight and factory ammo loaded with a similar bullet causes the same problem. In that case I’d shoot the gun and see if it’s reliable, then decide if it’s something you need to contact the manufacturer about.
Sold ! x2
Rifle with bolt catch on right side wins.
Awesome!!!
How’s does the Rec 10 and Falkor Alpha compare to these in general?