SHŌGUN Clip - Blackthorne Draws A Map of the World (2024)
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- Опубликовано: 13 мар 2024
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In 17th century Japan, shipwrecked British sailor John Blackthorne rises from outsider to samurai, while being used as a pawn in Japanese leader Toranaga's struggle to reach the top of the ruling chain.
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Развлечения
Certified "NAH, I'D WIN" moment...
NAH I'D ↑→↓↓↓
The recognition Hiroyuki Sanada is getting in roles is awesome.
Because HE'S awesome
way overdued
He has been a phenomenal actor for sometime.
i mean he's played pretty much any japanese guy in mainstream hollywood in the past decade so hes definitely recognised.
@@emayex8934 yeah but hes always being overshadowed
_"Did he really say 'belongs'...?"_
Chills.
Yeah, not the best language in the circumstances!
@@Klovaneer its was for him. He wanted them to hate the Portuguese.
@@Nonsense010688Really?🤔
I heard it's a good show.
@@Klovaneer On the contrary
@vk-eg3ro it's an amazing show.
That little smirk at the end really carries a lot of impact for such a tiny gesture.
I think in the book he openly laughs. I’m glad people caught on to it.
@@Kjleed13 I was really disappointed that they changed the context of the "unless I win" line from the book. Paraphrasing but in the book version Blackthorn was explaining the relationship between the Dutch and Spain at the time. Toranaga said something along the lines of "there is nothing that excuses a vasal, (Dutch) for rising up against their King (Spain). Blackthorn replied with "Unless I win" and Toranaga laughed and said "Yes Anjin thats the one time". Exact wording is wrong but I think I got the spirit of the exchange.
was some great foreshadowing and brief glimpse into Toranaga's true thinking
@@donstrader History is written by the victors. Every civilization in history has understood this. Toranaga, especially who Toranaga was based on, lived this history.
@@ayanithtalreign "History is written by the victors" is a wonderful cliche - except it isn't always so... Where did we get the "Lost Cause" mythology and all the Confederate monuments in the US (or for that matter the trash talking of the Treaty of Versailles the Germans started in 1919)? B/c sometimes, for complicated reasons, the losers get to write their version .
@@timothydavidcurpOnly survivors get to write their own history, even if they lose.
Treaty of Tordesillas, 1494 and Treaty of Zaragoza, 1529. The latter put Japan in Portugal’s half of the world. “70 years ago…” refers to the Zaragoza treaty, because the events in the series are happening in 1600 and Blackthorne is based on English sea pilot William Adams.
Interesting fact: Portugal’s “half” was 13% larger as it got 191 degrees and Spain got 169 degrees. Science wasn’t advanced enough for completely accurate measurements and that benefited the Portuguese when the line in the Pacific Ocean was drawn.
Wow. I remember the treaty of tordesillas in school. Had no idea this is what it was. Because I wasn’t paying attention. I knew I was right. I’ve learned more from a video and comments 🤘
I remember being taught this in school as well, didnt remember the name of the treaty thou. This recollection to actual human history no doubt flew over a lot of viewers heads. Its masterful to incorporate this history into this Japanese fictional story. Often times you can just look toward history to inspire your stories.
One interesting point is how some part of Brasil remained in the portuguese sphere. Historians debate if this was intentional, as Vasco da Gama had sailed to India but made an interesting detour, almost discovering Brasil, and only after his voyage was the treaty signed.
Pedro Alvares Cabral officialy discovered it in 1500, but there are several interesting points to note about his discovery. He was not that well rewarded on what should have been great news, and he was not as far from the coast as Vasco da Gama was, the treaty purposefully mentioning enough miles to allow that in the sphere of Portugal...
@@BrazFencil you didnt learn more here than in school. you werent paying attention...
@@DJSamsonofficial exactly
When he said, "unless I win", I have no doubt Toranaga thought, "that's a man I must bring into my ranks."
Whoever wrote this adaptation absolutely ruined the whole point of this scene. In the original book, Blackthorne tells Toranaga that Holland is rebelling against occupying Spanish rule, and Toranaga says "There is no excuse for rebellion." Blackthorne replies "There are serious mitigating circumstances" to which Toranaga says "There are no mitigating circumstances for rebellion". When Blackthorne says "Unless you win", Toranaga bursts out laughing and says "You named the one exception".
It's arguably the most significant and memorable dialogue in the entire book for a number of reasons, and there was zero reason to change it like this.
@@duncan-xg9sh Except look at how many people still love this scene.
@@Indeciferable how many people didnt read the book...
@@zekeyeager1458 That hardly matters. You're trying to tell people they're wrong for liking it because you liked it more in the book. Both can be interesting and tense but they're different mediums and have different constraints. End of the day this was a great scene and didn't "ruin the whole point."
@@Indeciferable Sure, and you could rewrite Shakespeare's plays in modern prose and some people will love them, especially if they haven't read the original, but you've discarded everything that makes them great literature. I'm fully aware that screen adaptations require significant changes, but in the example at hand the dialogue has been changed for no good reason, and a great deal of critical nuance has been thrown away. If you have read the book, you will know that this is literally the moment that Toranaga binds Blackthorne to himself, and the reference to rebellion is absolutely central to this. If you haven't read the book then you aren't qualified to comment.
"I assure you their arrogance is unbelievable!"
Says the englishman that's trying to do the same thing they're doing lol
That's the point of this show. No-one's the "good guy" here; everyone has an agenda.
If the British couldn't colonize you they'd made sure no one else could
The GOATs @@JackovdaBoro
At the time, England wasn't. In about 1600 the English had failed in Roanaoke and the Jamestown wouldn't be founded for another 7 years.
At that time, Portugal and Spain were the big guys. England, France and the Netherlands were still underdogs at that time, playing catch up.
I love seeing Hiroyuki Senada getting so much recognition. He's been one of the most talented actors in films for so many years.
I like to think that Toratnoga saw a bit of oda nobunaga in him when he said "unless I win" because facing down an enemy that outnumbered, you and still believe that you can win is definitely something that oda nobunaga would say
He also probably saw a bit of himself in that moment. Remember Toranaga is essentially being held captive and facing death at this point. He too was outnumbered.
@@Indeciferable Yup. He sees another man whom fortune has conspired against to throw into an impossibly bleak situation, but who then turns around and says "fuck this, *I* decide my fate".
Sounds like a line lifted from the original Shogun (1980) where Blackthorn replied "Unless I win" to Toranaga saying there was no justification for rebelling against ones lord. Which wasn't in the scene where Blackthorn draws a map of the world.
True, and in fact also did accomplish! Oda was the bad ass
Very cool
Lord Toranaga's smile after Blackthorne says, "Unless I win" says it all.
After the final episode, the sly smile after Blackthorne says ‘unless I win’ means so much more. It was the moment Toronaga realised they were fighting the different battles with the same mentality.
Did he just say nah I'd win?😂
This man foresaw Satoru Gojo's greatness.
I know right. Atleast he could have been like: well we got the baddest assest navy so
@@benbutcher9672 did he really say that?, im still watching season 1
@@mikkodoria4778 gojo said that line in season 1...
He said “I’m just built different.”
now i see why it's a 10/10 rating.
"They have you surrounded." - Toranaga
"Then I have them right where I want them." - Blackthorne
Hiroyuki Sanada’s microexpressions are brilliant man this guy can portray a smile that you see for 3 seconds and immediately return behind his fence.
At the time, Portugal and Spain were ruled by a single king, Philip III of Spain of the house of Habsburg. Therefore, the territory divided in the Treaty of Zaragoza belonged (theoretically) to the same king.
I was confused until I realized this, because England and Portugal are bound by Treaty of Windsor as the world's longest lasting political alliance. It was only nullified during the period in which the crowns were united under Spain.
And nobody took the treaty serious besides Spain and Portugal. This scene is just bad history. Real shogun would shrug his shoulders.
@@DeusVultGamer the "alliance" between Portugal and England is exaggerated.
that deal was more of a non-aggression pact.
"just keep your distance and I will mine" type of deal.
it isn't like Portugal and England cooperated or formed some type of military joint army to fight a common enemy or whatever.
or the royal families of Portugal and England did marry eachother.
so no, the pact was indeed good for both but it sure as hell wasn't an alliance.
And then the Dutch revolted and 50 years later the 30 years war erupted and saw the decline of Spain to what it is now. The Dutch formed and reformed their army to create an answer against the powerful Spanish Tercio. After that there no longer was any reason to fear it, because the Dutch outshined the Spanish in military capability considering equal numbers. Shouldn't have limited our trade, posed unreasonable taxes on one of the richer areas in your domain and then target us some more because we were Protestant, then again, tolerance never was a Catholic thing.
@@Krul6 I mean, he is trying to get the Japanese to break up with the Portuguese, so it makes sense for him to exaggerate a bit.
They are doing justice to this iconic book by Clavell. Fantastic acting all around. Amazing sets and costume. Fighting is accurate. FX hit gold again!
I haven't read the book, yet, and haven't seen the show. But if this clip is any indication, am probably going to watch it. Am a Hiroyuki fan.
The subtelty has been pretty much removed from the tv show compared to the book. It's all very much in your face now. The show is still amazing, but it lacks the oompf the book had. My biggest gripe with the show isn't that, it's how these massive cities should be full of people.. and they just seem completely devoid of life. It's like going into an open world game without any NPCs.
@@_Holmsie that's a fair analysis. I take visual media with a grain of salt. The brain will always be the best GPU in all existence
@@_Holmsie I wouldn't say removed as much as adapted. The book will give you the intimate secret motivations and beliefs of multiple characters in the same scene, while they are having dialogue. There are a lot of instances of "how I would like to say to you that x,y,z but I can't!" inside characters' heads like Yabu and Mariko smack next to what they say out loud to really hammer home the appearances they must keep up. The book doesn't cling to its intrigue, it's happy to put it all out on the table. Without all that inner monologue we have to get people's stories through dialogue and action, which I think the show is doing a good job at so far.
As I recall in the book and in history, Blackthorne/Adams (and Toranaga/Tokugawa) were more interested in trade than confrontation with the Portuguese
James Clavell wrote many outstanding books. If you like Shogun, read Tia-pan and King Rat.
Read them all, and they were all fascinating. Still haven't seen this Shogun series, going to check it out soon.
Tai pan. Not tia pan.
You forgot to mention noble house, the sequel of tai pan, with different mc.
Noble house has tv drama, too.
Gai Jin is also a really good book.
I have not would, but will now.
if u haven't seen this show. you need to see it. its amazing. the writing reminds me alot of early game of thrones. No wasted words.
I don't know how historically accurate this meeting was, but if it did happen, then it would have been quite a shock to hear all this. Learning that some far-away nation has claimed your home as their own is going to give anyone pause 🤔
It's actually quite accurate. Probably some changes of phrases and conversation for dramatization. It's believed to be about 90% accurate
The Treaty of Tordesillas. Spain and Portugal did indeed split the world as they knew it into 2 halves of influence.
Hard to say. The guy he's talking to is probably supposed to be Tokugawa Ieyatsu, the last of the 3 great uniters of Japan. Ieyatsu did have an English retainer so it is somewhat plausible, but Ieyatsu's intentions were often difficult to read.
The Tokugawa Shogunate kept Portuguese influence more limited than their predecessors, but it took 3 generations before they gave the Portuguese the boot entirely and traded with the Dutch instead.
@@hypothalapotamus5293 This is a series, based off a book ( the Shogun by James Clavell), based of the life of Williams Adams (the English Samurai). The book, written in the 1970s, Changes a few things Like names but actually uses many Japanese historical documents as the basis for it and even in Japan is Highly praised for it's accuracy of the period and representations of known historical characters
shock? weren't they dividing their known world between themselves and Chinese ? some of the comments here, I swear to God, acting like as if Japanese never heard or done conquest and looting themselves
The truly terrifying thing is that at that era this is exactly how naval powers operated against weaker nations
PS: come to think about it, things haven't changed that much to this day - it has only become more covert
Portugal never planned to toke over Japan, we went to Japan for trading, we introduce the firearm (arquebuz) and gunpowder to the japanese, they manage to copy them and perfected very fast...as for Macao the chinese emperor gave Macao to the portuguese for defending the Chine froom JAPANESE PIRATES, in this period of time Jhon Blackthorne is an enemy of the portuguese, Portugal and England are at war, of course he would try to put the japanese against Portugal.
is it really?? this is how stronger nations operating towards the weaker ones till this day, take your fake outrage where sun don't shine
What exactly is terrifying about it, all the previous great empires did the same going back probably 3000 years
@@robbieatvicWhat exactly is more terrifying is that all the previous great empires end up conquered by the people they used to conquered @robbieatvic
@@massalleh5255 for example, China. Our ancestors did conquer large swathes of northern lands above of China in which the nomadic horsemen tribe live during the Great Han dynasty as well as the Tang dynasty. To win against these nomadic horsemen superiority, we Chinese use the divide and conquer tactic by instigating conflict among the tribes and bribe them. That is how we maintain our control over them and their lands. However, good days and glory days as always do not last forever.
The nomadic horsemen that we Chinese looked down upon and labelled as "barbarians of the north" that fought one another rose under one single banner under the rule of one man alone by the name of Temujin, we now known as Genghis Khan. His great armies of horsemen would bring ruin and death to the doorsteps of many empires including the Chinese.
It would not be until the death of Genghis Khan and one of his grandsons, Kublai Khan rose to be next Khan and bring an end to the Chinese Song dynasty. The Yuan dynasty would last at least for a hundred plus years until its fall replaced by the Ming Chinese dynasty.
They altered an integral part of the book, it is supposed to be the Jesuit priest tells Toranaga that the Dutch rebelled against their rightful lord and he states there is no excuse for rebelling and Blackthorne then states "unless you win" and this is the moment Toranaga warms to Blackthorne.
@homie3461 I'm sure if someone jumped back in time and gave them the same high quality cameras it would look just as good.
Exactly. It was a seminal point in the book and they needlessly threw away the original dialogue and the significance it had.
2:46 still gives me chills every time to his reaction. Such a mixed bag of emotions to hear that another foreign country should have any claim over another
Hiroyuki's facial expressions are amazing.
The "Unless I win" makes more sense in the original miniseries version of the scene.
Yes, I was thinking this. If I remember correctly, Toronaga states that there is no excuse for a rebellion, and Blackthorne statues there is one, if you win, to which Toronaga agrees and says yes, that is the one valid reason.
Exactly! A much stronger scene!@@ChipLinck
Agree.
Hiroyuki is so good.
In the book Toranaga interviewed him alone about this, just him and Mariko, he really doesnt trust Yabu at all. Went against his character to have everyone there.
I can’t wait to watch shogun , the attention to detail I’ve seen in theses videos on RUclips is amazing.
Wow, this was pretty darn excellent of a scene. I can't decide who captures the emotion and moment best.
Agreed and an insight into later Japanese. policy towards foreign powers..
The smile at the end gets me every time
😍😍Hiroyuki Sanada played Scorpion in Mortal Kombat.
this looks so good
T: 'What do you seek?'
B:'To vanquish our common enemies'
M (translation): 'To enlist you against his enemies'
Mariko lies to Toranaga.
Nah, she's telling the truth to Toranaga. She's telling him what Blackthorne really means. Blackthorne certainly doesn't care about Toranaga's enemies, but he is interested in goading Toranaga into fighting with his own.
@@Narokkurai No. Her task was to faithfully translate what Blackthorne said, not put her own spin on it.
Toranaga was wise enough to be able to understand if Blackthorne was trying to manipulate him, and she could have given her opinion after the meeting.
This shows that her loyalties are divided between the Jesuits and Toranaga.
Not exactly. It's a running theme that the priest translates almost word for word, whilst Mariko is looser with her interpretation. Hard to call it a lie.
This show has been fun to watch.
Blackthrone's voice & tone really reminds me of Crais from Farscape.
Or Tom Hardy from anything.
This show is phenomenal across the board. Finally we have great television again!
This scene is definitely better than the 1980 version.
I still enjoy this scene in the TV series
The Portuguese and Spanish arrogance was unbelievable.
Britain/England over the next 500 years: "Let me show you how a real naval power works"
Do I see Bob in the background?
I have fallen in love with her...God help me!
It was so absurd that Marike couldn’t believe it, but Europeans just basically carved up the world amongst themselves.
She has no way of knowing except what the Portuguese tell. There was no Internet in those days.
just because he saying something doesnt mean its true.
Nobody else was doing it. They all just stayed where they were
Didn't the neighboring Ming and previous Chinese Empires call themselves the Middle Kingdom and the centre of the world to which all other peoples, including the Eastern Barbarians of Japan, would pay tribute to? I highly doubt Mariko would be unaware to whom the Japanese have been paying a tribute to for centuries or the concept of Tianxia.
Edit. The point was she and any other Japanese shouldn't see a foreign power carving up spheres on influence as absurd since that has already happened before.
@@hueylongdong347 yeah we are talking bout europeans from thousands mile away.
Bro that’s hilarious he said ‘to vanquish our common enemeies’ and she translated to ‘wants to enlist your help’ to make it seem like he was just like the invaders wanting to use Toranaga not ‘ally’ as Blackthorne implied because she doesn’t trust him! Great little details
Oh, that beautiful little smile at 4:36...
I always like seeing how words get changed during when passed through a translator. Even something as simple as Mariko either not knowing or considering it a non-issue to just say ‘Christian’ when Blackthorne had said ‘Catholic’ for a very good reason.
This show looks amazing. Time for a proper watch.
Sanada is awesome
"Unless I win". The moment Toranaga thinks I can role with this "Anjin".
"Toranaga, what do you see!?"
I'm waiting for the season to end so I can marathon it.
This is the one show i wish i could be watching.
This is such a great show
A very dramatic scene showing 16th century geopolitics as they affected Japan and providing clues to its later choice. of seclusion from the West. Impressive..
The Japanese leaders acting is incredible, he sudden realization of how suddenly in danger Japan may be in if he’s right about the Portuguese is well done. Dismissing the bay sayers and listening. Excellent.
That smile
Great show
He may not like the English fellow, but he does at the end.
I saw the original Shogun from the 80s. Amazing! This version has a lower pace but if you wants the original is like watching the original Blade Runners, the original was more cultural oriented, super good. This one is more cinematographic, more color and such.
Episode 1: I really like this show.
Episode 2 this scene: I really love this show.
Rick Grimes English brother.
Rick Grimes is English, brother
@@justinrill2483 Rick Grimes is American. Andrew Lincoln is English.
I'M going to have to read James CLavells book again, it's been a while.
bro said nah I'd win.
Everytime that I see Toranaga's faint smile, I always think two words: Don Corleone.
*looks at map*
oh yeah, i forgot that australia wasn't discovered yet 🤣
So. Damn. Good
Good job they didn't ask me for a map 😂
I know right? -- "Draw the world..." Ah, well. We're...over here-ish. And this is...the middle east. And here's what Europe kind of looks like. Africa is this big ass thing down here.
You are out numbered and it is hopeless.....
Nuh uh
So this is where Barney Went after it didn't work out with the Peaky Blinders
Please show me EP.2, 00:26:14~ 00:27:47.It's really Japanese!
異民族に真に日本的な物など理解できませんよ。
No doubt in my mind that Toranaga was inspired by him being outnumbered by Ishido himself.
Takemura? Is that you?
"Nah i'd win"
"The Treaty of Tordesillas (1494) is not as ominous as many would have you believe. It was an agreement between Castile (the primary constituent of what would become the Crown of Spain) and Portugal. It's first purpose was both to readdress existing treaties/agreements about who had right to what islands/lands, and prevent a conflict over future discoveries to the west -- Isabella wanted Columbus to keep the discoveries secret from Portugal, but Columbus went to Lisbon first and bragged to the King's Court there, "I told you so," which led to both countries plotting, thus necessitating a treaty/restructuring of existing norms, bulls. Courtesy of the Borgia Pope, Alexander VI. The key sticking point of Tordesillas was neither of them could occupy a land already claimed by a Catholic monarch--which, in theory, would include a monarch other than Castile or Portugal, if one existed. Think of this as more of a California gold rush scenario, except with (for the moment) two participants, who could stake claims along lines specified by treaty--in other words, ground rules. In essence, the world IS being divided up, but in this narrow context. These are NOT borders in the technical sense--that came later. This does NOT presuppose conquest. This does NOT mean that whatever inhabitants existed in those lands were at the mercy of Castile/Portugal. These issues emerged later and were dealt with separately. There was also a problem with which county had rights to India, but this required a second treaty, Saragossa, to help, but not strictly conclude, with that and other issues. Bear in mind, that very little was known at that time, 1494, about the extent of the New World, which then only consisted of some islands to date--Brazil was not yet discovered. There is a lot of Black Legend involved with these topics. The treaty, like many events in history, was an ad hoc response to then-existing tension--not a blueprint for colonialism.
Spheres of influence did emerge later between Spain and Portugal, but it was not set in stone by the treaty of 1494; this was true even after the Iberian Union of 1580, where Spain and Portugal existed in "personal union" under Philip II.
Original script...
"There are no extenuating circumstances for rebellion against your leige lord!"
"Unless you win."
Thor: Only if I die.
Blackthorne: Unless I win.
Rule by absolute Force
Brilliant microexpressions throughout.
Did anyone else notice the slightest ghost of a smile of approval from Toratnoga at Blackthorne's comment of '' unless I win ."?
Torganga eventhough controlling his emotions of shock ,and anger over the information Blackthorne disclosed, about what the actual intentions of Portual.were concerning Japan
- the look in his eyes at the last frame ,gives the impression that Toranogua had a suspicion Portuagal represented by the Catholic Portuages Priests ,were upto more than sharing Christianity - and the i'nformation' Blackthorne gave , confirmed it .
Blackthotne in that geography lesson gave Toranaga weapons more valuable than the cannons confiscated from Blackthornes ship .
Yes, I did.
Toronaga, who's currently in an impossible situation, now realize that the Anjin could the key needed to turn the table against his adversaries. In other words, he now sees an opening. To establish.....the Toronaga shogunate.
@@wolfu597 I thought about that also .
Toranaga was no doubt growing despondent over not having a way to safely escape I's compound with enemies surrounding him on every side .
Blackthorne was in the same situation and his comment ' unless , I win" put the 🔥, resolve and hope back in Toranaga's spirit - Blackthorne in a way , with 3 words, saved Toranoga' s life .
Blackthorne literally was by profession a ships pilot, and figuratively with those 3 words piloted Toranaga mentally out of bad place, which would lead to Blackthorne piloting Toranaga out of a bad place physically.
Toranaga needed renewed hope , and Blackthorne provided it .
In the Novel, Toranaga laughed out loud when Anjin-San said that line because it mirrored exactly what Toranaga faced against Ishido and the other regents.
In the Novel, Toranaga laughed out loud when Anjin-San said that line because it mirrored exactly what Toranaga faced against Ishido and the other regents.
How was it slight? It was very obvious
it's almost hard to believe just how far the Portuguese sailed to get to Nippon. and didn't they have a return voyage too.? i think it was a 2 to 3 year round trip venture?. if the expedition lost 1/3 of their ships and crew it was considered a best case scenario, successful enterprise . the never ending misery they endured on those long horror voyages is something most of us will never comprehend.
Nobody beats Mifune and Chamberlain 😊
Anna Sawai is what "strong female character" actually looks like 👏
This series is so good
Scorpion gesture
That chick is fcuken beautiful
she's... really not doing the job of translator well here. She's rephrasing the things he said, dropping context, and taking it on herself to determine if what he says is to be believed. It's critical that the ruler be able to make their own assessment of the facts of what was said without her alteration.
Completely intentional, you see it throughout the series and highlights how everyone has an agenda.
@@pawel8365 ahh, interesting. Thanks
@homie3461 Yes, clearly she suspects what he is saying about Portugal's. intentions. is true but she.is. also clearly. torn between duty.of truthfulness towards. her feudal Lord and. loyalty to her. new. faith-all very well acted.
And in the end all they got was Brazil
2:00 2:11 2:31
after watching this show, im off to play Shogun 2 Total War.
4:20 *laughs in British empire
Maybe it's just me but I prefer the actors from 1980 series.
To a certain extent, modern empires (oligarchies) still operate in the same manner.
Anyone notice she doesn't translate accurately?She interprets, and the meaning behind his words is changed on more than one occasion
This scene highlights the level of sheer audacity and smug superiority European powers had back in the 15th-18th centuries. They not only decided amongst themselves to subjugate Asia, but there's also a similar event where European powers basically divided up Africa and outlined which country would be subjugating which.
Nobunaga already had the Map of the world decades before Will Adams arrived in Japan
It's fiction, not a goddamn historical documentary
@@subutaynoyan5372 And the producer (who was also acting as Toranaga) wanted to be as historically accurate as possible, so he removed the part where Blackthorn was the first to introduce firearms to Japan..... because they were very adept with firearms by the time Adams arrived.....and he also removed the part where the Japanese didn't know Europe was a huge civilisation on the other side of the globe.....and he considerably changed their response upon seeing Blackthorn's world map.
@@subutaynoyan5372 One cannot fully appreciate this series until one knows the amount of effort they put into reconciling facts with fiction....and the fine details in clothing, culture, mannerisms and Conventions of the period. We see a lot of Samurai films but they tended to follow the Tokugawa Bakufu period conventions (more formal and ritualistic) but in this series they actually carefully made sure people behaved in keeping with the late Sengoku period. The people also spoke old Japanese, which is like old English to us.....so you have to appreciate how this scene was changed from the book. They kept the scene, but instead of having Toranaga exclaiming that he didn't realise Japan was so small in the grand scheme of the world.....he had Toranaga look keenly and ask intelligent questions about his journey.
@@subutaynoyan5372 We also see a significant change in Blackthorn's role, in the book he was training them how to use guns.....but in this series the samurai rightly told Blackthorn that they already knew how to use guns very well (Nobunaga used guns to fire in volleys, predating European use of the Same tactics by at least 90 years).....but yes the English Navy did have superior cannons to the Spanish and Portuguese at the time, so deploying Naval guns on land would have been a novel thing in Japan.....and Blackthorn was given command of the Cannon regiment.
I saw this as something of a test for Blackthorne. They wanted him to reveal what he, a barbarian, knows about the world, and in doing so learn about the Portuguese. Portugal hid knowledge of the rest of the world from the Japanese, but this barbarian told them the truth.
They were owned in the 1940's for sure.
The English were always more concerned about Spain. The trade companies though...
Because Spain was the superpower at the time shipping tons of gold back from the South America and Britian wanted that
Just imagine the confusion if the English guy had been a flat earther.
Thankfully nobody educated believed in the flat earth until somewhere in the 19th century. That the earth was a globe had been widely accepted since the time of the ancient Greeks, and known through experience by everyone that had to sail by sea. Fiction about Columbus notwithstanding, nobody actually believed in the flat earth until the invention of muppets.
Mariko's bigger issue was not so much that Europe did this, but it was actually sanctioned by the church, representatives of her faith, which shook her to the core.
This is not an assault upon the church. I'm a Christian myself, but the reality is that there were some who didn't represent the faith very well.
It's sad, but by this time the church took Christ's command to go into all the world and preach to mean to do so, not with the Holy Spirit, but with the musket, saber, and cannon.
they really ruined this scene, in the old version they talking about Holland fighting Spain and Toratnoga ask isn't Holland a vassal of Spain and say there is no acceptable reason for a vassal to turn on their sovereign, winch blackthorne responds unless we win, which amused Toratnoga because it basically mirrored his fight against the regency council
I think it's because of time constraints. Like I heard comparing the show to the book, the book has a lot more stuff going on which would need more episodes to cover. Which is why I kinda hate how short shows are now unlike back then when shows would have like 10+ episodes per season. Now shows only have 8 to 10 episodes at best per season. But I get it, I guess people these days have short attention spans
@@asuspiciouswatamelonthatdi9236the 80 version did this scene pretty good, then again, it didn't have all the stuff with the regents so maybe your right
Fully agree, this new series is really butchering a lot of the nuance of the book/old series, and the pacing is all over the place.
Agreed, and it was a seminal part of the novel. This is the scene where Toranaga befriends Blackthorne. Damn shame.
only ten episodes, wont be a 2nd season.
The show was faithful to the book (or very closely so, at least) -- but that also means it ends where the book ends. Personally, I think it was an incredibly foolish decision for the showrunners to cap the show at 10 episodes in a single season. Part of me wants to hope that, in keeping with the show's theme of deep deception, there's a "secret" 11th episode that might come out in the future...
Only thing i hated about this scene was despite its magnitude of importance, it doesnt lead to anything else for the rest of the series. I mean Blackthorn literally reveals a world wide plot for global domination by catholic church and we dont get anything for it later on.