@@RedRoseSeptember22 I mean comparison isn’t some entirely negative thing, you’re allowed to enjoy 50 shades while acknowledging that it’s clearly heavily inspired as it undeniably takes from the world of Secretary in many ways. As It begun as a fan-fiction I don’t blame it at all but there has to be some merit given to the original idea.
I was gonna say that this is the right version of 50 shades, the characters have a lot of the same traits. It would not even surprise me if EL James watched it and just copied it but making it a Twilight fancfic since Bella and Edward share some of the traits. On top of that his name is Gray, she did not know the fic would reach such a big audience so I don't think she cared if it was a blatant ripp-off, also wouldn't put it past her now that she does know her reach but still.
This film is such a wierd comfort to me the color and aesthetic language was very appealing to me but most of all was Maggie Gyllenhaal and James spader as leads they're both unconventionally attractive portraying an unconventional love story in a wierd and charming offbeat manner
@@trashbasket11The World in which women (and most likely some guys) find his chiseled features and sensual lips set off his facial expressions' subtle changes and moods to, well, panting perfection. Not every one wants to be with the conventional poster boys.
I disagree with the author that it is a politically correct love story, it's a naïve one. Consent granted after the fact is totally legit now? What's the message, guess wrong you're a criminal, guess right you're a super loverboy? How about the following scenario. They start out and have fun (and he makes it clear that's all this can be), but eventually he moves to a new play thing while she wanted more and is disgruntled. What about she goes to the cop at that point? Can she retroactively retract consent now because she has regrets?
One of my female friends who used to self-harm as a kid told me that this film is the most accurate portrayal of self-harm she’s ever seen, right down to the little personalized kits. So wild how deeply personal and impactful little story moments can be for connecting with certain audiences.
I think therapy fails Lee because it addresses the symptoms (self-harm) without giving her an alternative for expressing the frustration and pain arising from family conditions that haven’t changed. Edward doesn’t negate her feelings, he just changes her techniques of expression.
That and her need for structure. Therapists often say that we need to be independent but Lee needs that guidance before she can feel ready. Edward gave her the structure she needed which allowed her to find out more about what she wanted and who she is.
I love this movie. You summed it up pretty well: two weirdos who found each other. They're both so desperately lonely and they are able to not only find each other but connect with one another in the most intimate way. They understand each other. They see the other person for who they are, not for who they pretend to be around others. It's fascinating. And my god, James Spader in this movie is insanely hot. He's such a pathetic loser yet incredibly sweet and disarming. And his voice, ummpph. Great vid!
I think anyone who finds the movie "problematic" and calls her a "victim" should switch off their bloody smartphone, sit down and watch the movie again, with the sound on and their face towards the screen all the time. it's really not too subtle if you pay any attention at all.
I always saw him as traumatized by former relationship(s), extremely insecure and massively guilt-ridden about his sexual preferences. And the story is so incredibly enticing because these two are leading each other on, millimetre by millimetre, cautiosly as all hell, half not even self aware, into this romantic relationship. I mean there are definitely scenes where he is aware that he has power over her and is deeply uncomfortable with it. He's not at all abusive in that sense. Another thing is, clearly, that she does have a masochistic streak. She does, after all, enjoy "the games" too. I have been around in such circles and part of the magic is, quite often, that partners like these, sort of "smelled" each other, when they met. it's like a sixth sense going off.
I’m in recovery from alcohol abuse, and as a 20-something who’s friend group basically became non-existent once I chose to become sober, I cannot tell you how lonely that pain and this journey can feel. “Be alone” and “go to therapy” were two pieces of advice I got constantly, as if I wasn’t doing both religiously, praying that if I was alone long enough and if I talked about how I ended up here enough with a therapist, I’d become “better.” I learned a lot about myself, I worked on myself, and I’m thankful for that- but my life didn’t have any real *color* until I met my boyfriend and another close friend. I cannot express how much genuine connections can improve one’s life, and that shouldn’t be looked down on.
It's said not to form romantic relationships in vulnerable times as this because it's easy to become codependent and that can lead to the vulnerable person accepting abusive behaviors as they would feel like they can't cope if they get left alone. It is important to be able to be on our own. Romantic relationships are supposed to make our life richer not be an end all be all. It's always good to make platonic friends even in vulnerable moments as long as we respect that person's boundaries and they respect ours.
@@justynawisniewska1213 I couldn’t agree more. If I hadn’t made platonic connections before meeting my boyfriend, I know for a fact I wouldn’t be able to have a healthy relationship now. Even though I don’t talk to the majority of the friends I made when I was trying to get better, I still recognize the place they held for me and how we helped each other grow. This is my first relationship in over a year and a half since my big breakup, and even still I feel it’s important to check constantly that you’re still able to stand in your own and that your lives are not becoming too dependent too quickly- as my mother says, “A relationship should be the icing, not the cake.” That being said, I’m so grateful I did the work because, as I said, this is the best my life has been in a long time, and personally, I simply was not this specific type of happy on my own. It wouldn’t be possible without becoming healthier, but vulnerability held with this person is definitely a part of it.
@@ambientsentient Totally get it! Really happy for you and fingers crossed for you to do as great in years to come! I have a friend who few years ago struggled not with addiction but with depression, she was also after a big breakup herself on top of that. Instead of focusing on her own wellbeing and platonic friendships she kept juggling 2 dudes who were interested in her, while blowing off meetings with me and another friend on numerous occasions. Unfortunately she ended up seeing one of them, a narcissistic man over 10 years her senior. She ended up accidntally pregnant with him and even though they're not together anymore she still struggles greatly with coparenting.
They’re even more attractive by not being perfectly symmetrical Hollywood standardized package. The dynamics between them really made it more appealing
@@banxeescreems3337 James Spader definitely looked more like the conventional pretty boy in the 80’s. Who could forget that feathery hair in Pretty in Pink?
Right? Why is it supposed to be unattractive quality, that he is a human? Sometimes avoids uncomfortable confrontations (maybe pointless confrontations)? Struggling with his kink? I completely understand why his situation made him high-strung (Even though I didn't project into him, more into her). Maybe I was blamed for some things out of my control too often, so I don't see him as such a coward or whatever, and I am also rather neurotic myself, but he was just human. Both of them. With some unusual bends.
@@SKOMonsterwell the “struggling with his kink” bit is him seemingly initiating inappropriate bdsm relationships with his female employees…I like the movie but let’s not pretend there’s nothing wrong with that lol
I loved this movie so much. I think interpreting Lee as ONLY a victim of Mr Grey's manipulation is a very limited reading of the character and her desires. My fave scene is when she takes a walk after being told to by Grey. Her internal monologue illustrates just how comforting it is to follow clearly made instructions. Such a good disection into this movie.
Grey does not manipulates her. She is manipulated by her environment into what she was in the beginning . Proper young lady. And she hated that. That movie is about breaking all of those external ideas about how she should be that are forced upon her. Grey recognizes that in her and orders her to do what she wanted to do in the first place. But because he orders it, she has an excuse of not asking for it and therefore to be "free of sin". Not to the other people. It is an excuse to herself. Because she feels responsible to be that way for the sake of people around her.
@@jankom.7783 This a pretty accurate description of what is going on. She has these feelings of boredom and dissatisfaction and frustration, but she needs "permission" to let them out.
@@jankom.7783 So in other words he knows best and can order her to do whatever. Sounds like it's infantilizing her and removing her of agency. The whole idea of ordering around another adult is bizarre to me. Seems to reinforce the idea that women should be submissive and do what the man tells them. Right-wingers always claim it's women's natural state and it's the only way they will be happy. The excuse that 'he knows what's best for her' is the way every authority justifies itself - domination is always justified by claiming it's good for the ones dominated. Essentially doing role-playing in the bedroom is one thing, but when it bleeds into real life, like TPE relationships or 24/7 dom/sub relationships is fckd.
@@doxasticc Difference is that he actually knows. From her reactions. And he doesn't try to trick her into it by some weird logic. And she gave him plenty information on how she wants to be treated.
In case you haven't seen it, she also directed "The Lost Daughter" and it is SO GOOD! Similar themes to her work. Sherrybaby broke my heart, it was so obvious that she was an incest survivor and the story is in line with empirical research about trauma and CSA, which was before this crucial research became (at least a bit) more mainstream in the US.
@@ImnotassweetasIusedtobe Sure I've seen it and really loved it... Plus the ironic parallel between Maggie and her character Eilleen in The Deuce. The choice of taking the director seat to represent the female experience from a female point of view and twisted the Status Quo; one with xxx entertainment and the real one with taboo subject of obscure side of motherhood with no judgement
Not into BDSM myself but I have a huge soft spot for this movie. Definitely not the only ”unconventional movie about sex” that James Spader has done. 😂 I can see how people don’t find his character attractive but he does so much with his voice and his eyes, like the way he says ”Miss Holloway, read.” It’s so intimate. I also appreciate how the movie makes a clear distinction between desireable pain (BDSM) and non-desireable pain (Lee’s self-harm). I think the Korean movie Love and Leashes is also a very good depiction of a BDSM relationship, but it lacks the atmosphere and level of acting of Secretary.
I'm a huge fan of Sex, Lies and Videotape. I've seen it a bunch of times and that final video tape with Anne and Graham leaves me breathless every time. The way it explores intimacy and attachment issues really speaks to me and James Spader plays such a great weirdo.
Imo, it's not at all the Dom that "saves" you as a sub. You save yourself when you learn what you are capable of, when you choose to put yourself through trials in service of another. It's your own internal strength that was always there.
A person should be in service of self. The right relationship, sexual or otherwise, will empower you to both believe in and serve yourself in healthy ways. It's only by serving ourselves that we can truly and honestly begin to serve others. Why give someone power over you who is known to abuse it for their own gratification and satisfaction regardless of how you feel? They don't care about your feelings then they don't care about you or your experience. Essentially, their experience and reality is all that matters to them, not your own.
@whitneyrose9293 No but the Dom is also in service of your own needs with their actions. By allowing themselves to take responsibility for someone else, they take the stress of certain things away and allow you to focus on the things that really matter. Such as serving yourself. And in return you serve them as well
@@cheriremily9360 I really wish people would stop with this narrative. My dom and I are equal partners in this admittedly unequal partnership. We both have limits and boundaries and things that are absolutely off limits. We both have/give something the other wants. There's freedom in domming someone who truly accepts and celebrates that part of you the same way there's freedom in subbing for someone who won't abuse that part of you (as well as accepts and celebrates). It's textbook give and take, and certainly I think more media should focus on how domming feels, but stop saying subs hold the 'true power' it's giving "i don't understand bdsm but I know buzzwords".
That's true. I felt bad for peter in the film. I guess because the focus was Lee and Mr grey, he was not really that important. Really wished she had just told him she didn't want to be in a relationship with him anymore. Simple as that
Peter is a reasonably decent guy who will doubtless make some nice vanilla girl happy. But she'd better be able to communicate in bed, bc he doesn't catch the clearest hints... Lee isn't leading him on, she's trying to do the right, expected, normative thing...and discovering that it's not right for HER.
I'm glad you showed compassion for peter. I like your take. Grey presented a facade of strength & competence to hide his weakness. Lee hid her strength behind a facade of meekness, turning her anger and frustration away from her parents (who would be harmed by it) venting through self-harm. It's a love story with depth.
I loved this movie. I never saw Lee as a victim. I saw the relationship as a happy accident where both got something they couldn't find in anyone else.
This is one of my favorite films. I remember discovering it when I was 16, I had a parent who struggled with alcoholism, severe depression and anxiety, and I self harmed from age 13 to 18, because it made me feel in control of something in the middle of so much chaos. I blamed myself for my parent’s alcoholism because I didn’t know any better and I felt like I deserved some kind of punishment. I remember watching this movie and feeling…..seen. I felt so incredibly seen by Lee, by her struggles, by her anxiety, by the world she lived in. I loved her, and loving her allowed me to love myself and forgive myself in allot of ways. I’m 32 now and I still love Lee, and I love this movie.
Im 17 but i relate so much to what youve just said. I havent self harmed in maybe a year now but this movie is great and she reminds me of me from pre-2020 lol.
I also discovered this movie when I was about 16, funnily enough did not discover I was kinky until around 29, and am 32 now. It's weird how things go. Still one of my fave movies ever, and nowadays I even have the words to explain why. Why I could explore my mental health struggles, my parents, my self confidence and everything so beautifully with this movie.
I had a female friend who loved this movie. She tried very hard not to love this movie, for some of the reasons talked about in this review, but said that her intellectual arguments were not as strong as her body's response to it. She was, in her memorable phrase, frothing at the clopper, and used it as a gateway to a world of BDSM. We lost touch, but I hope she's happy.
I know some people have Pretty Woman, or Notting Hill or whatever as their model of romance. But Secretary is one of mine. Just two weirdos who find each other, and who help one another discover more of who they are instead of changing for their partner. Complementing, instead of completing.
You can't convince me that the author of 50 shades never heard or set eyes on this film. And so that is how, from the very first time I watched this 'twilight fanfic' I knew there were other "influences" at play.
They're both young secretary and stoney boss power dynamic, BDSM movies with a Mr Gray.😒 I remember finding this hidden gem and knowing from just the description that E.L did more than rework her Twilight fanfic.
As a Kink practitioner that has been on both sides of the dynamic and a psych student the reasons that a BDSM relationship I can argue that Mr. Grey feels like his life is constantly out of control being a Dom gives him control in those moments. Alice is someone who has to constantly be in control of herself having someone do the thinking for her gives a sense of freedom. I am not going to try and validate their toxic moments or habits. But there is a sort of therapy to the lifestyle. People are messy and complicated and beautiful. This is an excellent example of that.
I was thinking this. He needs control in some way but cannot find that and is also aware that it isn't always probable in the real world. It's also almost...forbidden in a way? I mean in his case, he is a man and can get away with being controlling, but I think he probably witnessed controlling behavior and thought "I don't want to do that." He only saw non-consensual controlling behavior though.
I'm a psych undergrad, I'm very educated on BDSM relationships and practices and I agree. There is a serious strength and power to be found in both a sub and a Dom position with a person who sees you. It can be a place where you truly get to be yourself, and therefore feel empowered. Not everyone is going to understand it or get it, but sometimes BDSM relationships or those that contain BDSM activities can be more healthy over all than regular relationships where people repress their desires and their full whole selves.
This is one of my favourite movies ever and I cried after watching it the first time. Lee's journey to self discovery and acceptance and a happily ever after with her dominant lover is very powerful. The look she gives the camera/viewer in the last shot always gives me good chills. No way was she ever a victim of mr Grey. They both finally found a person who understands them and who loves them as they need and want. To admit such feelings to yourself is hard enough, voicing your needs to a partner like Peter can feel almost impossible. He is a nice guy who seems to be doing everything all right, but it just doesn't match.
I love this film. It’s about two peculiar people who find acceptance and love in each other. They are two pieces of a puzzle that just fit together as perfectly as these pieces will ever fit. They both fill in each other’s negative spaces.
This was not the type of movie I’m inclined to watch, but I did anyway. I found that I got involved with both characters and felt that they made a very good couple. I would recommend it to anyone
Spader is smokin' in this movie - the look in his eyes/face at certain pivotal moments is not unlike the way my man used to look at me at times (which I felt meant he really knew & saw into me, in spite of myself) - it was by no means a thoroughly "healthy" relationship (we brought out the best AND worst of each other), neither of us being at all perfect - just for each other. He died last year and I will always remember that look - good or bad, right or wrong, I found his gaze absolutely disarming.
James Spader was *the original* "Mr. Gray." I've been involved in the BDSM community for 30 years or so, and went through a similar transition to Maggie Gyllenhaal's character. I started out as a damaged person tending towards submissive roles. Through that I found my confidence, and the person who was inside me the entire time began to flourish and grow. I genuinely appreciate this video, and I love your perspective. Secretary was amazing. FSoG was hot garbage. "Therapy," and mental health professionals did more harm than good, but the BDSM community emphasizes informed consent, negotiation, and the ability to stop a scene that isn't working for you. These things are absent in abusive situations. The kink community offered me the opportunity to explore my pain, and damage in a controlled environment with people who genuinely cared about me. Therapy did not.
I'm glad BDSM has helped you Tinker, but I will politely disagree about FSOG being "hot garbage" as it's not really story that's solely about the community, it's an actual love story with complex characters and situations. The BDSM part was just one of Christian's many facets.
@@bubbles4897 the above comment is talking about their own personal experience with therapy and BDSM. it’s ok if your opinion differs, because it’s just that: an opinion!
@@RedRoseSeptember22FSoG is an affront to the BDSM community. It ignores the importance of informed consent and makes other egregious assumptions and outright errors.
I was really taken aback by how much I related to the part about Lee seeking stability and being told what to do and follow instructions and do tedious, 'safe' tasks
I love this movie because I think it is about two people healing together. It is not just Mr. Grey leading Lee to be more independent but it is also her allowing him to accept himself. I would recommend you to watch the Korean movie Love & Leashes since it explores similar topics. However the roles are reversed, the woman is the dominant and the man is the submissive. There is too an exploration on shame but also an interesting critique to gender roles and what society expect of them. It is super sex positive and empowering for women who just don’t want to play submissive to be accepted in any context, whether public or private.
@@RedRoseSeptember22 and reality is infinity anyone can say pseudo-profundities that have no meaning. Please don't give me more message notifications I don't want brain cancer.
@@doxasticc Mr. Grey allows Lee to feel safe and secure through the BDSM scenes where she acts as the Submissive, in the day-to-day orders as her Boss, and so on. As stated, Lee was comforted by the rules and strict structures of the mental asylum, whereas the constant chaos of the real world was overwhelming and stressful for her. Mr. Grey gave her a portion of time where she was allowed to be comforted by rules and the act of submission, therefore she gained confidence in the day-to-day world and was no longer overwhelmed the same way she was beforehand. In the act of submitting, she becomes more independent and free, and it is entirely because she now has a safe space-- somewhere where she can relax and let the stress of the day or week disappear. I know this was slightly repetitive, but I hope this explanation helps.
@@RedRoseSeptember22 Some boxes are just nailed shut. Don't worry about it. Ooh, sorry, didn't realize the phrase had a gutter interpretation: I mean, minds.
You hit the nail on the head when you called this a fairy tale. That's what it is, and people who see this movie as an abuse scenario didn't read the assignment lol. They're entitled to their opinion, and sure, if this played out in the real world I'd side-eye what was happening. But this is a fantasy about two very awkward and damaged people finding confidence and control through bdsm together. I'd argue that by the end, Leigh is the one leading their relationship--even as she occupies the submissive role. Leigh is not a victim. She makes it impossible for Mr. Grey to run from her which, he tries to do over and over throughout the film. She fights for what she wants and wins.
This is one of my favourite movies. It's a profound and loving piece, and a powerful one. The dignity and fearless love Maggie shows not only toward Mr. Grey, but in life, toward her Father, toward herself, as the movie progresses I've always found amazing. The aesthetics are beautiful but the movie's language is just as gorgeous. I love hearing people talk about this film because it's one of my favourite gems of all time.
I unabashedly love this movie. back when 50 shades first came out I would tell ANYONE who'd listen to watch THIS movie instead for an actually good BDSM movie 🤣
I have been with my Master for 8 years, he got me away from an abuser... he didn't tell me to leave this person for him, he just said I deserved better. My life completely changed for the better, I stopped hurting myself, being around bad individuals, started eating healthier and caring for myself. He grounded me like any other healthy partner in any dynamic should.
I love this movie, find it to be devastatingly romantic. Leigh and Edward find peace and passion with each other. I do feel bad for Peter, because Leigh does treat him like a stepping stone on her own journey and that is unfair to him. For her he represents a form of life that she can’t bear to live because it would be the same plastic life of her parents and sister, surrounded by tchotchkes and artificial colors. She’s not even allowed to pick her own wedding dress in this world. Meanwhile Edward is surrounded by organic things, wood and plants. He encourages to walk to work through a park rather than get a ride in her mom’s clunker. She even says when they finally make love, “I felt the soil.” She teases him with earthworms and roaches. They consummate their marriage in the woods. In the end she’s wearing cotton instead of polyester. The things in their life are real because they see each other for who they really are.
Thank you for this. The whole trend of "men writing women" which has morphed into "a male character is anything but a perfect gentleman is a vile horror" made me feel like everyone is going insane. Yes. Characters can be complicated. Women are not perpetual victims, men are not perpetual abusers. Thank you.
I have always been reduced to a "good girl" It Is ENFURATING the way my family can't get to understand how I could be enything than that, how could I do things they deem as "bad" by my own choice, every friend I hace ever had has been heavily critized by them for currupting their "little girl" when in reality more times than not I have been the one coming up with bad ideas that turn into "bad behaviour" but It doesn't matter what I say they just don't believe shit
@@TheKitchenerLeslie because being dismissed and infantilized by the people in your life is a bad thing, having your family villainize your friends is also bad. It isn't hard to imagine why this would bother someone going through it.
This was a brilliant review. I love this movie. Not only is it well written, but it actually does a great job showing that healthy and meaningful love doesn't have to be "conventional." Lee's family is a dysfunctional mess, her mother is a broken suffocating parent, her father an alcoholic, her sibling wasn't very supportive. Lee was left to cope in unhealthy ways, to the point she actually had to go to a mental hospital. Then she found another person going through just as much as she was, and had the same desires. And they game each other a healthy outlet. Making eachother happier than either were apart.
I love this movie, I watced it last night after scrolling through films James Spader acted it. I have always liked older men and have been submissive. Edward Grey is a man who is shy, vulnerable, disgusted by himself, hurting and quite anxious. He can't comprehead that someone could ever love him because he thinks of hmself like a monster, undeserving of love or anything good. Lee is a shy, socially awkward, hurting woman who knows what she wants and is trying to be independed considering her mother babies her all the time. With Edward, Lee startedd healing and being herself finally. Edward starts healing and realizing he is worthy of love and that he has feelings for Lee, strong feelings, like love. They healed together and found the people they were born to be, found a partner that was made for them. Neither is a victim or an abuser, people who don't know enough about BDSM will not understand this film, they will find it problematic because they are used to really direct consent and really vanilla stuff. I love the movie, there waas a big smile on my face along with tears and I really can imagine myself in Lee's place, sorry that it won't happen though. I know it is very unlikely for me to have that kind of life, wish me luck guys.
I liked this movie for having a dom who wasn't all put together. In a number of things with a dominant character they are the fantasy they pretend. In this one he was just as much a mess as her, if not more so.
This film was recommended to me by a former friend who was actually in the BDSM lifestyle. I asked them during the Fifty Shades of Grey hype because I've been hearing how Fifty Shades wasn't a real representation of BDSM. They told me about this film, and much to my surprise, I actually enjoyed it. I was a bit concerned about the power dynamic between Lee and Mr. Gray due to him technically being her boss, but I realized that it is, at the end of the day, a film. What I loved is that Lee became more independent when she was Mr. Gray's submissive, which seems counterintuitive but in real BDSM relationships, submissives have a lot more power. They get to decide what they want their partner to take control of, when they want it, and limitations. Lee having someone guide her allowed that structure she so desperately needed and to find out who she is. At the end of the day, Lee wanted this and it helped her discover herself in a way she never expected. Mr. Gray needed this, too. His controlling nature possibly comes from years of childhood trauma or trauma in some aspects where he did not feel like he had control. He has a strong desire to control things but also knows that it's not the way to live, which kind of frustrates him and makes him think so low of himself. Lee allowing Mr. Gray to give her a structure she needed allowed him to express his desire for control in a healthy matter while also realizing that he isn't unlovable, that there is someone there for him who trusts him enough to give him control and be vulnerable.
I never thought that anything about Secretary is problematic, because my impression was that the movie is so obviously not supposed to be realistic and is basically an adult fairytale that only works because the main characters were destined to find each other naturally, without having to communicate their needs and preferences upfront. Honestly, despite how much I love this movie, it always leaves me a bit depressed - because i know that life doesn't work like this, and in reality, the BDSM ads are infinitely more likely to help you meet someone who likes what you like than going to job interviews and waiting for a random guy or girl to read my mind. (Also if this happened in real life i'd be running for the hills.) For some reason this movie doesn't give me the ick that rom coms, that promote stalking behavior as romantic, do.
Also this video really helped me a lot with my own struggles that I’ve been having with BDSM and not wanting to feel like a bad feminist for wanting to be dominated by men. Thank you for putting out such a beautiful interpretation of this movie with such thoughtful evaluations of the themes.
The feminine is submissive and women are of the feminine archetype. Feminism is the inversion of this. It makes women feel guilty for wanting to be in the authentic feminine, it instructs them that masculinity is superior. It is extremely draining and confusing for women. Masculine and feminine are a complementary pairing, they define each other in opposites. No one is perfectly feminine or perfectly masculine, we are all individuals, but the average woman relates best to the feminine archetype, and the average man relates best the masculine archetype. That is where they can be their authentic self.
You are allowed to be feminist and like domination - a feminist lady like yourself. Ignore the second comment because you can also be feminine and feminist. The second comment mainly speaks stereotypes. Of which feminists are tiring to fight.
Consent has to be black and white, because if it's not clear it can lead to "legal issus". He was wrong not warning her, even if she ended up enjoying it.
this is not a good enough answer, bdsm explore ideas between two individuals that may later belong to a community. The legal system, especially its best, and most legitimate propositions all fall into admiting how everything is more greyish
@@honey-wg6ow BDSM has always promoted informed and explicit consent. You don't just start participating in kink with another person without them knowing what you're doing unless there are previously established rules and parameters.
I think if Grey identified as a dom he would be more toxic and manipulative, but I always had the impression neither of them could define what they were until very late in the film. Lee actually is the first to gain any insight into it. This is all way before Fetlife too there weren't as many options as possible for safe exploration of one's role most people just thought there was something seriously wrong with themselves. In any event a movie where no one makes any mistakes would be pretty boring.
I liked her bathroom in the movie. That's a cinderella tub she's in, really popular in 1930's american homes. and the tile looks to be original as well. So im pretty sure they used a real house for her bathroom. great movie, really funny
I watched this movie when I was 13 (while spending a school break at my older sister's house and finding it in her movie collection). I remember feeling all sorts of feelings while watching it, but ultimately I had the same take that you did: it is a story of two weirdos, who found each other and came to realize that they are beautiful and 'normal' in their weirdness. I loved it. I never re-watched it after that first time (partly because I'm afraid that my 13-year-old take is wrong and that I will be disappointed upon re-watching it), but I have kept it in my heart and mind ever since. That movie definitely made an impression on my teenage mind and have remained with me. Thank you for your analysis!
Books I read and were moved by, back in childhood, are still moving to me today a lifetime later. The only difference is that now I can see what made them so awesome. Don't be afraid, bc art is something you see even if you don't know what you are seeing.
Great video. I've taken shit for liking this movie since it came out. I'm not into BDSM or even like romance films, but this is the one romance film I can think of where I felt the two people generally deserved each other. They don't end up together because they're just bland super attractive, but because they're both weirdos who are into the same freaky stuff. Also the fact this film couldn't be made today also makes it even better. A man should not make any sexual contact without a woman's approval, but in my experience women ***HATE*** having to tell a guy what she wants, when she wants it, and how she wants it. Women would rather just let a guy fumble around and hope he "just knows" when to make a move, and if he miscalculates he's in big trouble. This is perfectly illustrated in the movie where Mr. Grey does some risky borderline abusive things, but luckily Lee is into it. Meanwhile nice guy Peter does everything he's "supposed" to do and it makes Lee drier than a pile of dead leaves. Peter commits the crime of being boring and safe and not interpreting Lee's hints that she wants her butt spanked. And the fact Mr. Grey isn't just your run of the mill handsome Edward/Christian Grey (coincidence?) and is a bundle of insecurities and shame makes him interesting. My favorite part of the movie is when Lee makes the typos on purpose to entice him and he brushes her off with "I have to work". I think he breaks it off with her because he likes it too much and is ashamed of it. Lee helps him to accept that part of himself, which is why they make for a perfect couple. They need each other.
I adore this movie and over the years it has become my go to comfort film. I found it post the fifty shades Era when I was still a teenager and it provided a relatively healthy perspective on BDSM and intimacy in general. My favorite moments in it are when James Spader's character talks to Lee about self harm and offers her hot chocolate...it's so intimate and real. The scene that follows where she walks home alone for the first time just ties it together. PS: James Spader and his voice are sexy af in this movie.
This is a longtime loved movie, and you broke it down beautifully. The best mainstream movie I've seen covering s&m but portrayed with an empowering and empathetic perspective.
The difference between this girl and Anastasia is that unlike her, Anastasia is not masochistic, she's just a shy woman manipulated into kink by her boyfriend. In this movie, however, the main character is interested sm from the start, and the story as whole makes much more sense.
I watched this movie years ago, when FSoG came out and ready to hate it due to an youtube review. boy was I wrong. I loved the two of them for being shy and ocd, loved how she needed clear instructions to function and he needed someone who followed the instructions. they were so vulnerable when talking to each other. the "therapy doesn't help but a man would" is oversimplified. i do therapy, for years now. it helps a lot. but i flourisehd when i found people that accepted me and listened to me without judging. part of the therapy process is to accept yourself and its so much yeasier when you're not in an environment that forbiddens you from being comfortable on your own skin...
When I first saw this movie it spoke to me on so many levels. I was Lee's character I used to cut myself to make myself feel. I am a sub and always have been. I was never been able to find anyone who could truly Dom me until I met my husband. Other guys were too afraid, too gentle or just didn't get what I wanted, because they couldn't like Peter. My husband was the first man to ever make me really feel something like that. I think this movie is a beautiful love story that is a safe and fun way to show the love between a Dom and their Sub.
It’s especially true when he advises her to not cut herself telling her the feeling of nothingness inside is what causes her feel something be it pain of cuts. It’s nice that he thinks there’s something wrong with him (in actuality there isn't) and thus chooses not to drag her with it. He does not interfere in her private life. And there's something so endearing about the way he takes care of that little garden/green house inside his office, he's so delicate and so precise with his plants. She also likes him and also likes what they do together seggsually because after he asks her to leave she searches other people who have same interests to pursue but doesn’t feel connected. There’s no way shape or form she’s suffering with E. Edward Grey which is by the fact she puts wormin her letter and deliberately makes mistakes just so he’d punish her. Also when they are doing things she seems more confident naturally instead of scared. They maintain their individuality even after starting being together. No romance movie of this type will ever compare. They all are abusive. But this one is romantic. One of my favourite comfort movies.
Being 'submissive' or 'passive' in a sexual relationship is often seen as negative especially amongst feminists. I don't understand why, people often times don't seem to realise just how much power a 'sub' truly has. assuming they're a willing participant either expressed directly or not; they are the sole individual with all the power, they are the ones that grant the illusion of total subordination for both their own and their partners enjoyment. They even have the power to scare the living shit out of their partner with the possibility of reporting them to the police, it doesn't even need to result in reputation destruction or prosecution. Subs are the true Dom's.
My mother and I love love love this movie. She actually turned me into this. It blew my find the first time because it was deeper than I expected. And each time I watch it comforts me in a way that reminds me that love doesn't have to look like one particular thing.
ive never seen self harm portrayed so accurately in a movie before, usually you only see the aftermath or the act itself without much context surrounding it. especially the scene of her trying to speak with her dad on the phone, the frustration you can see in her face and body and the way she slams the phone so perfectly portrays what the urge to self harm actually feels like, the way it bubbles up in your chest and overflows and you feel the overwhelming need to lash out and hurt something or yourself and its reminiscent of feeling like you need to cry, just this growing pressure. and the kits with everything you could possibly need to self harm or care for wounds, q tips and different sized band aids and different types of gauze and bandages and medical tape and little nail scissors and alcohol wipes and different ways to hurt yourself, the way she carries it around even to work like ive brought mine with me on vacation and it feels entirely normal unless i stop and think about how messed up it would seem to anyone else that im bringing razors and nonstick pads and neosporin with me on a beach vacation incase the urge to expose my innards happens to hit me while im away from home, or going to uni lectures, or going to my parttime job and just carrying this little personalized cutesy kit with a tiny jingly bell attached meant to always be close at hand if i want to cut myself. but again those few seconds of her slamming the phone were the most hard hitting (ha ha), her expression and movement and palpable frustration in that scene are so recognizable to me
I saw this film many many years ago and it unfortunately went over my head at the time. After a significant amount of time removed from it and your incredible reading of the film, I can say it's definitely worth a second look! This was a really insightful video, thank you for making it.
Lee Holloway is the only female character I have ever related to and kinned in my whole life. As someone who suffers from SH and is also very much a sub, I find this film's depiction of their interesections and differences, if imperfect, certainly unique and striking. Also I love Lee and Edward as characters. I have never seen such weird, awkward, attractive but unattractive, lovable and flawed people portrayed in a positive erotic context before. Thanks for this video 🌺
What annoys me is more the unique status it has. Because BDSM is hardly ever talked about in an appropriate fashion, there is more pressure on media that does so to actually do it right. And while I do relate to one of the main characters, there are just some points that make me not want to. Consent is so massively important in BDSM and there is just no way for it to ever develop in a hierarchical (or any, to be real) workplace situation. I get that we constantly "excuse" this in more vanilla relationships in movies, I just wish for something that portrays BDSM the way it's supposed to work. The other big thing is how their entire relationship is based on their dominance structure. A lot of people would be a lot happier and healthier if they could realize that it's 100% possible to be at eye level in a relationship and reserve the other stuff for the bedroom (or wherever you want to do it). Massive turn-off, if a grown woman asks me, whether she's allowed to eat a second piece of Leberkäse (that specific situation made me end a relationship).
its easy to see why men can have such a profound effect on women. Its not because they are bigger and stronger, its because they are important to women. The same is true of women for men. The people who have had the most impact on my life were not men. I respect a lot of men, even admire them, but as a straight man, women are under my skin and in my head in a way that men are not. Its not an imbalance of power, its quite the opposite. It just isn't balanced in a way that people who focus on men and women being equal and interchangeable can recognize anymore.
what normal and fine to some may be shocking to others, everyone has different perspectives. this isn't a movie about a girl who gets abused its about a girl who figures out who she is and what she wants and pulls herself out of any and all abuse others inflicted or that she inflicted on herself. imagine knowing what you want to that extent, you'd do anything for it, for that part of you that makes you whole. i was submissive all my life before I even knew what that term meant, its a lifestyle and very freeing. i watch this all the time and wish I had that content she found at the end. this is a practical fairy tale .
I first watched this movie one night on tv, I was a teen then, and I remember loving it so much, I'm not into BDSM and I was too young to understand all the themes, but I was like "I just watched something really good, I don't fully undesrstand but it was great".
This is such a beautiful analysis of this movie. I love the depth you've added to it. I never really understood why i loved this movie so much, but I've always related to the movie, in a weird way? The more i watch you break down each character and their progression, i relate heavily to the characters and their story.
It's not my fantasy because the thought of doing this with a senior work colleague is nasty and scary. Mostly scary. I think dom sub roleplay is only okay if the real life situations of the people involved are people of the same level e.g. office workmates and they're just acting for the dom sub roles. When it's a boss and employee, that's an abuse of power. With real life consequences
I love this movie, but it made me uncomfortable the last time I rewatched it recently. The consent thing is really challenging for me after being through sexual abuse. Physical gestures aren’t enough, it has to be verbal in my world, as mind & body operate on different levels, and they didn’t have prior agreements. I’m sure there would be more of an issue around that if there wasn’t a happy ending. I also want to point out that mr.Gray acts predatory towards her from the get-go, asking if she’s married. The Polaroids make me think he did similar things to other women. Their love story romanticizes their issues; it only becomes okay because they’re falling for each other, think about it. P.S. She didn’t cut herself by mistake that first time, as much as I remember, the accident was the depth of the cut.
"deal with your feelings and what caused them instead of expecting the outside world to dissuade them" Why are men never held to this standard? They can fully expect for almost all media to never hurt them at all, much less to the level that media is used to hurt us
Dude, it's literally a stereotype to tell men to "man up", men are told to suck their feelings up all the time while women are told to 'let it out'. Idk where you get the notion that it's the opposite in media or society in general.
This was such a beautiful movie analysis, and of such a calibre that I miss seeing in the golden age of video essays. I noticed, in fact, that I have saved multiple of your videos to my to-watch list without realising they were all your content! I’ve never watched this movie, exactly due to how it’s portrayed in general - a simple erotica. I’m surprised to learn this is actually a very layered story with a thought-out cinematography! Thank you for this banger!!
this is so interesting because i feel similarly about the relationships between Charlotte Bronte's characters. I don't really like the relationship in Jane Eyre and I do think that the red flags are very real, but you get the sense that Jane and Mr. Rochester do fit together. As Jane herself says, if anyone else was in their relationship, it could be very toxic, but it works for them (this, though, I find a rather disturbing fantasy). At the end of the book, Bronte takes pains to equalize the two of them. I love the relationship between Lucy and M. Paul in Villette. M. Paul is bossy and pushy and occasionally misogynistic, but he also, every step of the way, respects Lucy and her mind and her wishes more than any one else in the book. Lucy gains independence through her relationship with M. Paul which is why, despite the surface-level confrontationalism between them, I think their love story is genuinely very sweet.
I always had the idea that Gey was never real; it was just a version of herself that taught her to love herself. The version that loves and accepts herself with all her damaged past, needs and desires. She thinks of herself as a monster that can't be loved, so she creates Grey while dating that guy. The end is about her finally accepting herself as she is. That's why she says she finally feels beautiful.
@@jaclynconrad2472 It's the beauty of filmmaking, it can say something different to all of us. In the end, it's all about her journey to becoming her own self, and that's why the film talks to so many of us, I think.
Heartened to hear your review of this odd and disarming picture. I saw myself in each of the characters when it appeared on Netflix recently. I rose after the playing time with a sense of relief.
This has always been one of my favorite films! It shows how a REAL sub/dom relationship works between two people who are damaged, lonely, socially awkward, etc... UNLIKE that crap multimillion 50 Shades of Gray stupidity lol
I love that movie, but that doesnt mean it is a healthy relationship, así you say "she doesnt know how to maintain dominance over her own existence" so she lets another person do it
When this film came out, I also was a pretty militant (I’d say feminist, but I don’t want to lie to all of you) misandrist, and was insanely protective of women (Still am), and I got a loooottttt of hate for liking this movie. I don’t think it would matter what the gender was of the characters, honestly. Two people who were broken and missing parts of themselves found them in the other. Sure, she cross-addicts, but everyone does.
it’s just “problematic” in the sense that the dynamic is built off of misogynistic societal norms. Yes, there is an undeniable power imbalance. No amount of good chemistry really changes that. Women being subservient and hit by women, consensually or not, is a direct mimic of actual patriarchal relationships and how we are taught to see women in society. So yes the movie is misogynistic. it’s not egregiously cruel or cause for protest, but im tired of people ignoring the reality of it😭
This is one of my favorite movies of all time and I've tried to explain this exact point to so many people, not only about this movie but about the BFDSM world and kink in general. I love what you did here!
I wonder if every intelligent traumatized feminist go through the same cycle of guilt, confusion, and acceptance. I relate to the initial quote so much, and i look forward to my thirties hoping i’ll be able to cope even better with my feelings and ideas.
I added subtitles, learned how to do that
Thank you. So many take that for granted. Love your channel.
Maybe add them to video when uploading...
Thank you!
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*"because she can...because it's her choice"*
*that's the look on her face in the final shot..* 👁👁
Maggie being disappointed that she didn’t get to argue with people is so real
This😂
Yes! I thought Gyllenhaal was a bit facetious when she said that. 2:06 A little exaggerated, a little true.
This film is everything 50 Shades of Grey wishes it could be.
I mean shades of grey was a fanfiction, a crossover of twilight and secretary. But there are actual good fanfictions out there
FSOG is amazing in its own right :) stop comparing the two.
@@RedRoseSeptember22 I mean comparison isn’t some entirely negative thing, you’re allowed to enjoy 50 shades while acknowledging that it’s clearly heavily inspired as it undeniably takes from the world of Secretary in many ways. As It begun as a fan-fiction I don’t blame it at all but there has to be some merit given to the original idea.
I was gonna say that this is the right version of 50 shades, the characters have a lot of the same traits. It would not even surprise me if EL James watched it and just copied it but making it a Twilight fancfic since Bella and Edward share some of the traits. On top of that his name is Gray, she did not know the fic would reach such a big audience so I don't think she cared if it was a blatant ripp-off, also wouldn't put it past her now that she does know her reach but still.
Except for when she like shits and pisses her wedding dress
This film is such a wierd comfort to me the color and aesthetic language was very appealing to me but most of all was Maggie Gyllenhaal and James spader as leads they're both unconventionally attractive portraying an unconventional love story in a wierd and charming offbeat manner
you said the reasons why i like this movie so much. 😂❤❤
It’s actually a really sweet story. I also feel good after watching Secretary.
I agree with everything except in what world is James Spader unconventionaly attractive lol
@@trashbasket11The World in which women (and most likely some guys) find his chiseled features and sensual lips set off his facial expressions' subtle changes and moods to, well, panting perfection. Not every one wants to be with the conventional poster boys.
I disagree with the author that it is a politically correct love story, it's a naïve one. Consent granted after the fact is totally legit now? What's the message, guess wrong you're a criminal, guess right you're a super loverboy? How about the following scenario. They start out and have fun (and he makes it clear that's all this can be), but eventually he moves to a new play thing while she wanted more and is disgruntled. What about she goes to the cop at that point? Can she retroactively retract consent now because she has regrets?
One of my female friends who used to self-harm as a kid told me that this film is the most accurate portrayal of self-harm she’s ever seen, right down to the little personalized kits. So wild how deeply personal and impactful little story moments can be for connecting with certain audiences.
I second her opinion, I just watched it and that's what I was thinking, the butterfly stickers and everything..
I think therapy fails Lee because it addresses the symptoms (self-harm) without giving her an alternative for expressing the frustration and pain arising from family conditions that haven’t changed. Edward doesn’t negate her feelings, he just changes her techniques of expression.
Beautifully said!! ❤
That and her need for structure. Therapists often say that we need to be independent but Lee needs that guidance before she can feel ready. Edward gave her the structure she needed which allowed her to find out more about what she wanted and who she is.
What are you suggesting they do? Institutionalize? Hire a carer?
The self-harming was seen as a problem, and it is, but more accurately, it was the thing people use to DEAL with their problem
I love this movie. You summed it up pretty well: two weirdos who found each other. They're both so desperately lonely and they are able to not only find each other but connect with one another in the most intimate way. They understand each other. They see the other person for who they are, not for who they pretend to be around others. It's fascinating. And my god, James Spader in this movie is insanely hot. He's such a pathetic loser yet incredibly sweet and disarming. And his voice, ummpph. Great vid!
I already had a huge crush on Spader and this movie (and Crash) really amplified those feelings.
Couldn't've said it better. Had a massive crush on James Spader from Pretty in Pink and this role showed a softer side of him.
@@Aster_RiskSame! I’ve loved him since Less than Zero and Pretty in Pink.
That voice can melt butter ❤
I've known James Spade as an actor for a long time but his voice here really did something for me 🥵
I think anyone who finds the movie "problematic" and calls her a "victim" should switch off their bloody smartphone, sit down and watch the movie again, with the sound on and their face towards the screen all the time. it's really not too subtle if you pay any attention at all.
exactly! I feel like starting the relationship in the office was definitely unethical but overall there was clear consent on both sides
I always saw him as traumatized by former relationship(s), extremely insecure and massively guilt-ridden about his sexual preferences. And the story is so incredibly enticing because these two are leading each other on, millimetre by millimetre, cautiosly as all hell, half not even self aware, into this romantic relationship.
I mean there are definitely scenes where he is aware that he has power over her and is deeply uncomfortable with it. He's not at all abusive in that sense.
Another thing is, clearly, that she does have a masochistic streak. She does, after all, enjoy "the games" too.
I have been around in such circles and part of the magic is, quite often, that partners like these, sort of "smelled" each other, when they met. it's like a sixth sense going off.
💭🌹
I’m in recovery from alcohol abuse, and as a 20-something who’s friend group basically became non-existent once I chose to become sober, I cannot tell you how lonely that pain and this journey can feel. “Be alone” and “go to therapy” were two pieces of advice I got constantly, as if I wasn’t doing both religiously, praying that if I was alone long enough and if I talked about how I ended up here enough with a therapist, I’d become “better.” I learned a lot about myself, I worked on myself, and I’m thankful for that- but my life didn’t have any real *color* until I met my boyfriend and another close friend. I cannot express how much genuine connections can improve one’s life, and that shouldn’t be looked down on.
No one can really make it in this world alone. Congratulations on your sobriety!
If you need more friends, Southern Baptist are notorious tea tottlers. Should be able to fine some people to hang with who don't drink there.
It's said not to form romantic relationships in vulnerable times as this because it's easy to become codependent and that can lead to the vulnerable person accepting abusive behaviors as they would feel like they can't cope if they get left alone. It is important to be able to be on our own. Romantic relationships are supposed to make our life richer not be an end all be all. It's always good to make platonic friends even in vulnerable moments as long as we respect that person's boundaries and they respect ours.
@@justynawisniewska1213 I couldn’t agree more. If I hadn’t made platonic connections before meeting my boyfriend, I know for a fact I wouldn’t be able to have a healthy relationship now. Even though I don’t talk to the majority of the friends I made when I was trying to get better, I still recognize the place they held for me and how we helped each other grow. This is my first relationship in over a year and a half since my big breakup, and even still I feel it’s important to check constantly that you’re still able to stand in your own and that your lives are not becoming too dependent too quickly- as my mother says, “A relationship should be the icing, not the cake.”
That being said, I’m so grateful I did the work because, as I said, this is the best my life has been in a long time, and personally, I simply was not this specific type of happy on my own. It wouldn’t be possible without becoming healthier, but vulnerability held with this person is definitely a part of it.
@@ambientsentient Totally get it! Really happy for you and fingers crossed for you to do as great in years to come!
I have a friend who few years ago struggled not with addiction but with depression, she was also after a big breakup herself on top of that. Instead of focusing on her own wellbeing and platonic friendships she kept juggling 2 dudes who were interested in her, while blowing off meetings with me and another friend on numerous occasions. Unfortunately she ended up seeing one of them, a narcissistic man over 10 years her senior. She ended up accidntally pregnant with him and even though they're not together anymore she still struggles greatly with coparenting.
I LOVE Secretary. She is not just complicit, she is fully into it and it’s awesome.
The bug in the sheets at the end
I don’t think either of them are unattractive lol. I’m very much attracted to both. And this movie is very much a favorite of mine.
They’re even more attractive by not being perfectly symmetrical Hollywood standardized package. The dynamics between them really made it more appealing
They have such a perfect chemistry with each other! I love it :D
@@banxeescreems3337 James Spader definitely looked more like the conventional pretty boy in the 80’s. Who could forget that feathery hair in Pretty in Pink?
Right? Why is it supposed to be unattractive quality, that he is a human? Sometimes avoids uncomfortable confrontations (maybe pointless confrontations)? Struggling with his kink? I completely understand why his situation made him high-strung (Even though I didn't project into him, more into her). Maybe I was blamed for some things out of my control too often, so I don't see him as such a coward or whatever, and I am also rather neurotic myself, but he was just human. Both of them. With some unusual bends.
@@SKOMonsterwell the “struggling with his kink” bit is him seemingly initiating inappropriate bdsm relationships with his female employees…I like the movie but let’s not pretend there’s nothing wrong with that lol
I loved this movie so much. I think interpreting Lee as ONLY a victim of Mr Grey's manipulation is a very limited reading of the character and her desires. My fave scene is when she takes a walk after being told to by Grey. Her internal monologue illustrates just how comforting it is to follow clearly made instructions.
Such a good disection into this movie.
I agree. He cares about her and he knows she's flailing. He gives her a simple instruction and she's able to direct herself from there.
Grey does not manipulates her. She is manipulated by her environment into what she was in the beginning . Proper young lady. And she hated that.
That movie is about breaking all of those external ideas about how she should be that are forced upon her. Grey recognizes that in her and orders her to do what she wanted to do in the first place. But because he orders it, she has an excuse of not asking for it and therefore to be "free of sin". Not to the other people. It is an excuse to herself. Because she feels responsible to be that way for the sake of people around her.
@@jankom.7783 This a pretty accurate description of what is going on. She has these feelings of boredom and dissatisfaction and frustration, but she needs "permission" to let them out.
@@jankom.7783 So in other words he knows best and can order her to do whatever. Sounds like it's infantilizing her and removing her of agency. The whole idea of ordering around another adult is bizarre to me. Seems to reinforce the idea that women should be submissive and do what the man tells them. Right-wingers always claim it's women's natural state and it's the only way they will be happy. The excuse that 'he knows what's best for her' is the way every authority justifies itself - domination is always justified by claiming it's good for the ones dominated. Essentially doing role-playing in the bedroom is one thing, but when it bleeds into real life, like TPE relationships or 24/7 dom/sub relationships is fckd.
@@doxasticc Difference is that he actually knows. From her reactions. And he doesn't try to trick her into it by some weird logic. And she gave him plenty information on how she wants to be treated.
I just adore Maggie; so fearless at her most vulnerable and complex... This, Cherrybaby, The Deuce, The Kindergarten Teacher... Love, love, LOVE her
In case you haven't seen it, she also directed "The Lost Daughter" and it is SO GOOD! Similar themes to her work. Sherrybaby broke my heart, it was so obvious that she was an incest survivor and the story is in line with empirical research about trauma and CSA, which was before this crucial research became (at least a bit) more mainstream in the US.
@@ImnotassweetasIusedtobe Sure I've seen it and really loved it... Plus the ironic parallel between Maggie and her character Eilleen in The Deuce. The choice of taking the director seat to represent the female experience from a female point of view and twisted the Status Quo; one with xxx entertainment and the real one with taboo subject of obscure side of motherhood with no judgement
@@ImnotassweetasIusedtobe thank you 🙏
Have you seen Stranger Than Fiction?
@@NeedsContent oh yes... Really nice movie, it's hard top find something not good of her work
Not into BDSM myself but I have a huge soft spot for this movie. Definitely not the only ”unconventional movie about sex” that James Spader has done. 😂 I can see how people don’t find his character attractive but he does so much with his voice and his eyes, like the way he says ”Miss Holloway, read.” It’s so intimate. I also appreciate how the movie makes a clear distinction between desireable pain (BDSM) and non-desireable pain (Lee’s self-harm). I think the Korean movie Love and Leashes is also a very good depiction of a BDSM relationship, but it lacks the atmosphere and level of acting of Secretary.
I prefer Love and Leashes over this film.This film comes across as too cringey and the characters seem so annoying.
I'm a huge fan of Sex, Lies and Videotape. I've seen it a bunch of times and that final video tape with Anne and Graham leaves me breathless every time. The way it explores intimacy and attachment issues really speaks to me and James Spader plays such a great weirdo.
@@ididgt4259 Agreed, it’s a great film.
Disgusting movie about dysfunctional people. Hollywood loves to normalize kink.
@Nic Cole I've seen both films and your take is truly wild to me.
Imo, it's not at all the Dom that "saves" you as a sub. You save yourself when you learn what you are capable of, when you choose to put yourself through trials in service of another. It's your own internal strength that was always there.
the sub has real control over the situation and most do not understand that
A person should be in service of self.
The right relationship, sexual or otherwise, will empower you to both believe in and serve yourself in healthy ways.
It's only by serving ourselves that we can truly and honestly begin to serve others.
Why give someone power over you who is known to abuse it for their own gratification and satisfaction regardless of how you feel? They don't care about your feelings then they don't care about you or your experience. Essentially, their experience and reality is all that matters to them, not your own.
@whitneyrose9293 No but the Dom is also in service of your own needs with their actions. By allowing themselves to take responsibility for someone else, they take the stress of certain things away and allow you to focus on the things that really matter. Such as serving yourself. And in return you serve them as well
@@cheriremily9360 I really wish people would stop with this narrative. My dom and I are equal partners in this admittedly unequal partnership. We both have limits and boundaries and things that are absolutely off limits. We both have/give something the other wants. There's freedom in domming someone who truly accepts and celebrates that part of you the same way there's freedom in subbing for someone who won't abuse that part of you (as well as accepts and celebrates). It's textbook give and take, and certainly I think more media should focus on how domming feels, but stop saying subs hold the 'true power' it's giving "i don't understand bdsm but I know buzzwords".
So much this. A true Dom provides a safety that cannot be expressed in words. Safety is when you blossom.
Justice for Peter, he needs a nice wholesome girl who communicates clearly with him and treats him right
Or at least breaks up with him when she knows they're incompatible.
That's true. I felt bad for peter in the film. I guess because the focus was Lee and Mr grey, he was not really that important. Really wished she had just told him she didn't want to be in a relationship with him anymore. Simple as that
I also really hope that she dry-cleaned his mom’s dress.
Peter was icky.
Peter is a reasonably decent guy who will doubtless make some nice vanilla girl happy. But she'd better be able to communicate in bed, bc he doesn't catch the clearest hints... Lee isn't leading him on, she's trying to do the right, expected, normative thing...and discovering that it's not right for HER.
I'm glad you showed compassion for peter.
I like your take. Grey presented a facade of strength & competence to hide his weakness. Lee hid her strength behind a facade of meekness, turning her anger and frustration away from her parents (who would be harmed by it) venting through self-harm.
It's a love story with depth.
I loved this movie. I never saw Lee as a victim. I saw the relationship as a happy accident where both got something they couldn't find in anyone else.
Exactly what I saw.
This is one of my favorite films. I remember discovering it when I was 16, I had a parent who struggled with alcoholism, severe depression and anxiety, and I self harmed from age 13 to 18, because it made me feel in control of something in the middle of so much chaos. I blamed myself for my parent’s alcoholism because I didn’t know any better and I felt like I deserved some kind of punishment. I remember watching this movie and feeling…..seen. I felt so incredibly seen by Lee, by her struggles, by her anxiety, by the world she lived in. I loved her, and loving her allowed me to love myself and forgive myself in allot of ways. I’m 32 now and I still love Lee, and I love this movie.
Im 17 but i relate so much to what youve just said. I havent self harmed in maybe a year now but this movie is great and she reminds me of me from pre-2020 lol.
@@spacebar9733I’m 25 y.o., but same
I also discovered this movie when I was about 16, funnily enough did not discover I was kinky until around 29, and am 32 now. It's weird how things go. Still one of my fave movies ever, and nowadays I even have the words to explain why. Why I could explore my mental health struggles, my parents, my self confidence and everything so beautifully with this movie.
good job@@spacebar9733
Look at my lawyer dawg, I'm going to jail 😂😂😂😂
I had a female friend who loved this movie. She tried very hard not to love this movie, for some of the reasons talked about in this review, but said that her intellectual arguments were not as strong as her body's response to it. She was, in her memorable phrase, frothing at the clopper, and used it as a gateway to a world of BDSM. We lost touch, but I hope she's happy.
@bruhh5933 ...almost like we aretold to feel shame around sex or something.
ew
sounds like you should've stayed in touch ;)
I know some people have Pretty Woman, or Notting Hill or whatever as their model of romance. But Secretary is one of mine. Just two weirdos who find each other, and who help one another discover more of who they are instead of changing for their partner. Complementing, instead of completing.
You can't convince me that the author of 50 shades never heard or set eyes on this film. And so that is how, from the very first time I watched this 'twilight fanfic' I knew there were other "influences" at play.
They're both young secretary and stoney boss power dynamic, BDSM movies with a Mr Gray.😒
I remember finding this hidden gem and knowing from just the description that E.L did more than rework her Twilight fanfic.
She ripped off this film, 9 1/2 Weeks, and Wild Orchid. It irks me that she profited off of so much blatant plagiarism.
As a Kink practitioner that has been on both sides of the dynamic and a psych student the reasons that a BDSM relationship I can argue that Mr. Grey feels like his life is constantly out of control being a Dom gives him control in those moments. Alice is someone who has to constantly be in control of herself having someone do the thinking for her gives a sense of freedom. I am not going to try and validate their toxic moments or habits. But there is a sort of therapy to the lifestyle. People are messy and complicated and beautiful. This is an excellent example of that.
That makes alot of sense tbh. Perfect explanation
I was thinking this. He needs control in some way but cannot find that and is also aware that it isn't always probable in the real world. It's also almost...forbidden in a way? I mean in his case, he is a man and can get away with being controlling, but I think he probably witnessed controlling behavior and thought "I don't want to do that." He only saw non-consensual controlling behavior though.
I'm a psych undergrad, I'm very educated on BDSM relationships and practices and I agree.
There is a serious strength and power to be found in both a sub and a Dom position with a person who sees you. It can be a place where you truly get to be yourself, and therefore feel empowered. Not everyone is going to understand it or get it, but sometimes BDSM relationships or those that contain BDSM activities can be more healthy over all than regular relationships where people repress their desires and their full whole selves.
This is one of my favourite movies ever and I cried after watching it the first time. Lee's journey to self discovery and acceptance and a happily ever after with her dominant lover is very powerful. The look she gives the camera/viewer in the last shot always gives me good chills. No way was she ever a victim of mr Grey. They both finally found a person who understands them and who loves them as they need and want. To admit such feelings to yourself is hard enough, voicing your needs to a partner like Peter can feel almost impossible. He is a nice guy who seems to be doing everything all right, but it just doesn't match.
I love this film. It’s about two peculiar people who find acceptance and love in each other. They are two pieces of a puzzle that just fit together as perfectly as these pieces will ever fit. They both fill in each other’s negative spaces.
You might like the phrase, the rocks in his head fit the holes in hers. Not mine, I stole it from Reader's Digest.😊
This was not the type of movie I’m inclined to watch, but I did anyway. I found that I got involved with both characters and felt that they made a very good couple. I would recommend it to anyone
Spader is smokin' in this movie - the look in his eyes/face at certain pivotal moments is not unlike the way my man used to look at me at times (which I felt meant he really knew & saw into me, in spite of myself) - it was by no means a thoroughly "healthy" relationship (we brought out the best AND worst of each other), neither of us being at all perfect - just for each other. He died last year and I will always remember that look - good or bad, right or wrong, I found his gaze absolutely disarming.
James Spader was *the original* "Mr. Gray."
I've been involved in the BDSM community for 30 years or so, and went through a similar transition to Maggie Gyllenhaal's character. I started out as a damaged person tending towards submissive roles. Through that I found my confidence, and the person who was inside me the entire time began to flourish and grow.
I genuinely appreciate this video, and I love your perspective. Secretary was amazing. FSoG was hot garbage. "Therapy," and mental health professionals did more harm than good, but the BDSM community emphasizes informed consent, negotiation, and the ability to stop a scene that isn't working for you. These things are absent in abusive situations. The kink community offered me the opportunity to explore my pain, and damage in a controlled environment with people who genuinely cared about me. Therapy did not.
Not you putting down therapy but holding up bdsm oh my god
@@bubbles4897 Sometimes BDSM is the exact "therapy" a person needs.
I'm glad BDSM has helped you Tinker, but I will politely disagree about FSOG being "hot garbage" as it's not really story that's solely about the community, it's an actual love story with complex characters and situations. The BDSM part was just one of Christian's many facets.
@@bubbles4897 the above comment is talking about their own personal experience with therapy and BDSM. it’s ok if your opinion differs, because it’s just that: an opinion!
@@RedRoseSeptember22FSoG is an affront to the BDSM community. It ignores the importance of informed consent and makes other egregious assumptions and outright errors.
The weirdest part is that a film this mature, with these topics and at that particular time exists, and to this day that is so rare.
james spader was my HUGEST crush in high school so i watched this in maybe my sophomore year and LOVED it. Happy to see it being discussed!!!
Ew
@@Ri57490 fr but i love me some ugly ass men what can ya do lol
This is 100% the most romantic movie ever made. It's not about perfect people but it is perfect.
Poor Peter... being collateral damage of other's love story is the worst.
I was really taken aback by how much I related to the part about Lee seeking stability and being told what to do and follow instructions and do tedious, 'safe' tasks
I relate a lot with that too 😂
I love this movie because I think it is about two people healing together. It is not just Mr. Grey leading Lee to be more independent but it is also her allowing him to accept himself. I would recommend you to watch the Korean movie Love & Leashes since it explores similar topics. However the roles are reversed, the woman is the dominant and the man is the submissive. There is too an exploration on shame but also an interesting critique to gender roles and what society expect of them. It is super sex positive and empowering for women who just don’t want to play submissive to be accepted in any context, whether public or private.
how is she more independent if he's ordering her around
@@doxasticc Submission is freedom.
@@RedRoseSeptember22 and reality is infinity
anyone can say pseudo-profundities that have no meaning. Please don't give me more message notifications I don't want brain cancer.
@@doxasticc Mr. Grey allows Lee to feel safe and secure through the BDSM scenes where she acts as the Submissive, in the day-to-day orders as her Boss, and so on. As stated, Lee was comforted by the rules and strict structures of the mental asylum, whereas the constant chaos of the real world was overwhelming and stressful for her. Mr. Grey gave her a portion of time where she was allowed to be comforted by rules and the act of submission, therefore she gained confidence in the day-to-day world and was no longer overwhelmed the same way she was beforehand. In the act of submitting, she becomes more independent and free, and it is entirely because she now has a safe space-- somewhere where she can relax and let the stress of the day or week disappear. I know this was slightly repetitive, but I hope this explanation helps.
@@RedRoseSeptember22 Some boxes are just nailed shut. Don't worry about it. Ooh, sorry, didn't realize the phrase had a gutter interpretation: I mean, minds.
You hit the nail on the head when you called this a fairy tale. That's what it is, and people who see this movie as an abuse scenario didn't read the assignment lol. They're entitled to their opinion, and sure, if this played out in the real world I'd side-eye what was happening. But this is a fantasy about two very awkward and damaged people finding confidence and control through bdsm together. I'd argue that by the end, Leigh is the one leading their relationship--even as she occupies the submissive role. Leigh is not a victim. She makes it impossible for Mr. Grey to run from her which, he tries to do over and over throughout the film. She fights for what she wants and wins.
This is one of my favourite movies. It's a profound and loving piece, and a powerful one. The dignity and fearless love Maggie shows not only toward Mr. Grey, but in life, toward her Father, toward herself, as the movie progresses I've always found amazing. The aesthetics are beautiful but the movie's language is just as gorgeous. I love hearing people talk about this film because it's one of my favourite gems of all time.
I unabashedly love this movie. back when 50 shades first came out I would tell ANYONE who'd listen to watch THIS movie instead for an actually good BDSM movie 🤣
I think 50 is such a knockoff of this movie and I can't believe it's not talked about more
Exactly my first thought when I watched this movie was this is like an actually good 50sog
I have been with my Master for 8 years, he got me away from an abuser... he didn't tell me to leave this person for him, he just said I deserved better.
My life completely changed for the better, I stopped hurting myself, being around bad individuals, started eating healthier and caring for myself.
He grounded me like any other healthy partner in any dynamic should.
Do you call him master in every day setting just asking?
I love this movie, find it to be devastatingly romantic. Leigh and Edward find peace and passion with each other.
I do feel bad for Peter, because Leigh does treat him like a stepping stone on her own journey and that is unfair to him. For her he represents a form of life that she can’t bear to live because it would be the same plastic life of her parents and sister, surrounded by tchotchkes and artificial colors. She’s not even allowed to pick her own wedding dress in this world. Meanwhile Edward is surrounded by organic things, wood and plants. He encourages to walk to work through a park rather than get a ride in her mom’s clunker. She even says when they finally make love, “I felt the soil.” She teases him with earthworms and roaches. They consummate their marriage in the woods. In the end she’s wearing cotton instead of polyester. The things in their life are real because they see each other for who they really are.
this comment is so perfect I broke out in tears
Agreed, a wonderful and insightful viewpoint.❤
Omgg that’s so beautiful!
Thank you for this. The whole trend of "men writing women" which has morphed into "a male character is anything but a perfect gentleman is a vile horror" made me feel like everyone is going insane. Yes. Characters can be complicated. Women are not perpetual victims, men are not perpetual abusers. Thank you.
A woman's boss spanking her, is a bit more than "not a perfect gentleman"
This movie truly changed my life, I’m so much happier and at peace with who I am than I ever was in my teens and twenties.
i literally cannot put into words how happy i am that someone has finally made a video on my favorite movie ever. this was amazing thank you bestie
I watched half of this video, paused, and watched the movie for the first time, It became one of my favorites
I have always been reduced to a "good girl" It Is ENFURATING the way my family can't get to understand how I could be enything than that, how could I do things they deem as "bad" by my own choice, every friend I hace ever had has been heavily critized by them for currupting their "little girl" when in reality more times than not I have been the one coming up with bad ideas that turn into "bad behaviour" but It doesn't matter what I say they just don't believe shit
I can't tell how much I relate with this sentiment
Denial isn't only a river ... its amazing how much people can convince themselves of something thats plainly staring them in the face.
Girl what????
The more important question is why does this bother you?
@@TheKitchenerLeslie because being dismissed and infantilized by the people in your life is a bad thing, having your family villainize your friends is also bad. It isn't hard to imagine why this would bother someone going through it.
I honestly found this movie very romantic. When it was over I was like “wow, that was a love story.” It’s what 50 Shades wished it was
This was a brilliant review. I love this movie. Not only is it well written, but it actually does a great job showing that healthy and meaningful love doesn't have to be "conventional." Lee's family is a dysfunctional mess, her mother is a broken suffocating parent, her father an alcoholic, her sibling wasn't very supportive. Lee was left to cope in unhealthy ways, to the point she actually had to go to a mental hospital. Then she found another person going through just as much as she was, and had the same desires. And they game each other a healthy outlet. Making eachother happier than either were apart.
I love this movie, I watced it last night after scrolling through films James Spader acted it. I have always liked older men and have been submissive. Edward Grey is a man who is shy, vulnerable, disgusted by himself, hurting and quite anxious. He can't comprehead that someone could ever love him because he thinks of hmself like a monster, undeserving of love or anything good. Lee is a shy, socially awkward, hurting woman who knows what she wants and is trying to be independed considering her mother babies her all the time. With Edward, Lee startedd healing and being herself finally. Edward starts healing and realizing he is worthy of love and that he has feelings for Lee, strong feelings, like love. They healed together and found the people they were born to be, found a partner that was made for them. Neither is a victim or an abuser, people who don't know enough about BDSM will not understand this film, they will find it problematic because they are used to really direct consent and really vanilla stuff. I love the movie, there waas a big smile on my face along with tears and I really can imagine myself in Lee's place, sorry that it won't happen though. I know it is very unlikely for me to have that kind of life, wish me luck guys.
Good luck, love, sex and sizzle to you...and to us all, but this is primarily for you. I hope you find what you want, need, and deserve.
I liked this movie for having a dom who wasn't all put together. In a number of things with a dominant character they are the fantasy they pretend. In this one he was just as much a mess as her, if not more so.
This film was recommended to me by a former friend who was actually in the BDSM lifestyle. I asked them during the Fifty Shades of Grey hype because I've been hearing how Fifty Shades wasn't a real representation of BDSM. They told me about this film, and much to my surprise, I actually enjoyed it. I was a bit concerned about the power dynamic between Lee and Mr. Gray due to him technically being her boss, but I realized that it is, at the end of the day, a film. What I loved is that Lee became more independent when she was Mr. Gray's submissive, which seems counterintuitive but in real BDSM relationships, submissives have a lot more power. They get to decide what they want their partner to take control of, when they want it, and limitations. Lee having someone guide her allowed that structure she so desperately needed and to find out who she is. At the end of the day, Lee wanted this and it helped her discover herself in a way she never expected.
Mr. Gray needed this, too. His controlling nature possibly comes from years of childhood trauma or trauma in some aspects where he did not feel like he had control. He has a strong desire to control things but also knows that it's not the way to live, which kind of frustrates him and makes him think so low of himself. Lee allowing Mr. Gray to give her a structure she needed allowed him to express his desire for control in a healthy matter while also realizing that he isn't unlovable, that there is someone there for him who trusts him enough to give him control and be vulnerable.
THANK YOU! This is how I felt. Also: this movie has some of the most accurate portrayals of SH. The ritual, the box, her expressions.
I never thought that anything about Secretary is problematic, because my impression was that the movie is so obviously not supposed to be realistic and is basically an adult fairytale that only works because the main characters were destined to find each other naturally, without having to communicate their needs and preferences upfront. Honestly, despite how much I love this movie, it always leaves me a bit depressed - because i know that life doesn't work like this, and in reality, the BDSM ads are infinitely more likely to help you meet someone who likes what you like than going to job interviews and waiting for a random guy or girl to read my mind. (Also if this happened in real life i'd be running for the hills.)
For some reason this movie doesn't give me the ick that rom coms, that promote stalking behavior as romantic, do.
I relate to her so much, hearing you describe her mentality, her infantilism at the hands of her parents brought me to tears.
Also this video really helped me a lot with my own struggles that I’ve been having with BDSM and not wanting to feel like a bad feminist for wanting to be dominated by men. Thank you for putting out such a beautiful interpretation of this movie with such thoughtful evaluations of the themes.
I see that internal struggle at. Hope you're coming through, Evie Lupine is a good resource
The feminine is submissive and women are of the feminine archetype. Feminism is the inversion of this. It makes women feel guilty for wanting to be in the authentic feminine, it instructs them that masculinity is superior. It is extremely draining and confusing for women. Masculine and feminine are a complementary pairing, they define each other in opposites. No one is perfectly feminine or perfectly masculine, we are all individuals, but the average woman relates best to the feminine archetype, and the average man relates best the masculine archetype. That is where they can be their authentic self.
You are allowed to be feminist and like domination - a feminist lady like yourself. Ignore the second comment because you can also be feminine and feminist. The second comment mainly speaks stereotypes. Of which feminists are tiring to fight.
felt!
James Spader and Maggie Gyllenhaal's performances in this movie are fantastic👌
Consent has to be black and white, because if it's not clear it can lead to "legal issus". He was wrong not warning her, even if she ended up enjoying it.
this is not a good enough answer, bdsm explore ideas between two individuals that may later belong to a community. The legal system, especially its best, and most legitimate propositions all fall into admiting how everything is more greyish
@@honey-wg6ow BDSM has always promoted informed and explicit consent. You don't just start participating in kink with another person without them knowing what you're doing unless there are previously established rules and parameters.
I think if Grey identified as a dom he would be more toxic and manipulative, but I always had the impression neither of them could define what they were until very late in the film. Lee actually is the first to gain any insight into it. This is all way before Fetlife too there weren't as many options as possible for safe exploration of one's role most people just thought there was something seriously wrong with themselves. In any event a movie where no one makes any mistakes would be pretty boring.
I liked her bathroom in the movie. That's a cinderella tub she's in, really popular in 1930's american homes. and the tile looks to be original as well. So im pretty sure they used a real house for her bathroom. great movie, really funny
I watched this movie when I was 13 (while spending a school break at my older sister's house and finding it in her movie collection). I remember feeling all sorts of feelings while watching it, but ultimately I had the same take that you did: it is a story of two weirdos, who found each other and came to realize that they are beautiful and 'normal' in their weirdness. I loved it. I never re-watched it after that first time (partly because I'm afraid that my 13-year-old take is wrong and that I will be disappointed upon re-watching it), but I have kept it in my heart and mind ever since. That movie definitely made an impression on my teenage mind and have remained with me. Thank you for your analysis!
Books I read and were moved by, back in childhood, are still moving to me today a lifetime later. The only difference is that now I can see what made them so awesome. Don't be afraid, bc art is something you see even if you don't know what you are seeing.
Great video. I've taken shit for liking this movie since it came out. I'm not into BDSM or even like romance films, but this is the one romance film I can think of where I felt the two people generally deserved each other. They don't end up together because they're just bland super attractive, but because they're both weirdos who are into the same freaky stuff.
Also the fact this film couldn't be made today also makes it even better. A man should not make any sexual contact without a woman's approval, but in my experience women ***HATE*** having to tell a guy what she wants, when she wants it, and how she wants it. Women would rather just let a guy fumble around and hope he "just knows" when to make a move, and if he miscalculates he's in big trouble.
This is perfectly illustrated in the movie where Mr. Grey does some risky borderline abusive things, but luckily Lee is into it. Meanwhile nice guy Peter does everything he's "supposed" to do and it makes Lee drier than a pile of dead leaves. Peter commits the crime of being boring and safe and not interpreting Lee's hints that she wants her butt spanked.
And the fact Mr. Grey isn't just your run of the mill handsome Edward/Christian Grey (coincidence?) and is a bundle of insecurities and shame makes him interesting. My favorite part of the movie is when Lee makes the typos on purpose to entice him and he brushes her off with "I have to work". I think he breaks it off with her because he likes it too much and is ashamed of it. Lee helps him to accept that part of himself, which is why they make for a perfect couple. They need each other.
This is the good version of Fifty Shades of Gray
I adore this movie and over the years it has become my go to comfort film. I found it post the fifty shades Era when I was still a teenager and it provided a relatively healthy perspective on BDSM and intimacy in general. My favorite moments in it are when James Spader's character talks to Lee about self harm and offers her hot chocolate...it's so intimate and real. The scene that follows where she walks home alone for the first time just ties it together.
PS: James Spader and his voice are sexy af in this movie.
This was an absolutely fantastic essay.
This is a longtime loved movie, and you broke it down beautifully. The best mainstream movie I've seen covering s&m but portrayed with an empowering and empathetic perspective.
The difference between this girl and Anastasia is that unlike her, Anastasia is not masochistic, she's just a shy woman manipulated into kink by her boyfriend. In this movie, however, the main character is interested sm from the start, and the story as whole makes much more sense.
I watched this movie years ago, when FSoG came out and ready to hate it due to an youtube review. boy was I wrong. I loved the two of them for being shy and ocd, loved how she needed clear instructions to function and he needed someone who followed the instructions. they were so vulnerable when talking to each other. the "therapy doesn't help but a man would" is oversimplified. i do therapy, for years now. it helps a lot. but i flourisehd when i found people that accepted me and listened to me without judging. part of the therapy process is to accept yourself and its so much yeasier when you're not in an environment that forbiddens you from being comfortable on your own skin...
When I first saw this movie it spoke to me on so many levels. I was Lee's character I used to cut myself to make myself feel. I am a sub and always have been. I was never been able to find anyone who could truly Dom me until I met my husband. Other guys were too afraid, too gentle or just didn't get what I wanted, because they couldn't like Peter. My husband was the first man to ever make me really feel something like that. I think this movie is a beautiful love story that is a safe and fun way to show the love between a Dom and their Sub.
It’s especially true when he advises her to not cut herself telling her the feeling of nothingness inside is what causes her feel something be it pain of cuts. It’s nice that he thinks there’s something wrong with him (in actuality there isn't) and thus chooses not to drag her with it. He does not interfere in her private life. And there's something so endearing about the way he takes care of that little garden/green house inside his office, he's so delicate and so precise with his plants. She also likes him and also likes what they do together seggsually because after he asks her to leave she searches other people who have same interests to pursue but doesn’t feel connected. There’s no way shape or form she’s suffering with E. Edward Grey which is by the fact she puts wormin her letter and deliberately makes mistakes just so he’d punish her. Also when they are doing things she seems more confident naturally instead of scared. They maintain their individuality even after starting being together. No romance movie of this type will ever compare. They all are abusive. But this one is romantic. One of my favourite comfort movies.
Being 'submissive' or 'passive' in a sexual relationship is often seen as negative especially amongst feminists. I don't understand why, people often times don't seem to realise just how much power a 'sub' truly has. assuming they're a willing participant either expressed directly or not; they are the sole individual with all the power, they are the ones that grant the illusion of total subordination for both their own and their partners enjoyment. They even have the power to scare the living shit out of their partner with the possibility of reporting them to the police, it doesn't even need to result in reputation destruction or prosecution. Subs are the true Dom's.
Feminists dont think being submissive is a bad thing.
My mother and I love love love this movie. She actually turned me into this. It blew my find the first time because it was deeper than I expected. And each time I watch it comforts me in a way that reminds me that love doesn't have to look like one particular thing.
ive never seen self harm portrayed so accurately in a movie before, usually you only see the aftermath or the act itself without much context surrounding it. especially the scene of her trying to speak with her dad on the phone, the frustration you can see in her face and body and the way she slams the phone so perfectly portrays what the urge to self harm actually feels like, the way it bubbles up in your chest and overflows and you feel the overwhelming need to lash out and hurt something or yourself and its reminiscent of feeling like you need to cry, just this growing pressure. and the kits with everything you could possibly need to self harm or care for wounds, q tips and different sized band aids and different types of gauze and bandages and medical tape and little nail scissors and alcohol wipes and different ways to hurt yourself, the way she carries it around even to work like ive brought mine with me on vacation and it feels entirely normal unless i stop and think about how messed up it would seem to anyone else that im bringing razors and nonstick pads and neosporin with me on a beach vacation incase the urge to expose my innards happens to hit me while im away from home, or going to uni lectures, or going to my parttime job and just carrying this little personalized cutesy kit with a tiny jingly bell attached meant to always be close at hand if i want to cut myself. but again those few seconds of her slamming the phone were the most hard hitting (ha ha), her expression and movement and palpable frustration in that scene are so recognizable to me
I lost count on how many times I've watched this movie. I adore this film❤️
Yeah me too this movie is really good it doesn't get the attention it deserves
Thanks for making this, this movie is so underrated and yet it’s amazing representation for couples that don’t fit norms! 💕
I saw this film many many years ago and it unfortunately went over my head at the time. After a significant amount of time removed from it and your incredible reading of the film, I can say it's definitely worth a second look! This was a really insightful video, thank you for making it.
Lee Holloway is the only female character I have ever related to and kinned in my whole life. As someone who suffers from SH and is also very much a sub, I find this film's depiction of their interesections and differences, if imperfect, certainly unique and striking.
Also I love Lee and Edward as characters. I have never seen such weird, awkward, attractive but unattractive, lovable and flawed people portrayed in a positive erotic context before.
Thanks for this video 🌺
What is SH?
@@hyusuf4280 Hi, it's short for self-harm
@@tallynesmen Oh thank you. I was trying to figure it out but couldn't.
What annoys me is more the unique status it has. Because BDSM is hardly ever talked about in an appropriate fashion, there is more pressure on media that does so to actually do it right. And while I do relate to one of the main characters, there are just some points that make me not want to. Consent is so massively important in BDSM and there is just no way for it to ever develop in a hierarchical (or any, to be real) workplace situation. I get that we constantly "excuse" this in more vanilla relationships in movies, I just wish for something that portrays BDSM the way it's supposed to work.
The other big thing is how their entire relationship is based on their dominance structure. A lot of people would be a lot happier and healthier if they could realize that it's 100% possible to be at eye level in a relationship and reserve the other stuff for the bedroom (or wherever you want to do it). Massive turn-off, if a grown woman asks me, whether she's allowed to eat a second piece of Leberkäse (that specific situation made me end a relationship).
its easy to see why men can have such a profound effect on women. Its not because they are bigger and stronger, its because they are important to women. The same is true of women for men. The people who have had the most impact on my life were not men. I respect a lot of men, even admire them, but as a straight man, women are under my skin and in my head in a way that men are not. Its not an imbalance of power, its quite the opposite. It just isn't balanced in a way that people who focus on men and women being equal and interchangeable can recognize anymore.
i have watched this video 7 times now and i love it, it's my favorite video of yours
Beautifully said. Empowerment of the individual instead of the gender.
what normal and fine to some may be shocking to others, everyone has different perspectives. this isn't a movie about a girl who gets abused its about a girl who figures out who she is and what she wants and pulls herself out of any and all abuse others inflicted or that she inflicted on herself. imagine knowing what you want to that extent, you'd do anything for it, for that part of you that makes you whole. i was submissive all my life before I even knew what that term meant, its a lifestyle and very freeing. i watch this all the time and wish I had that content she found at the end. this is a practical fairy tale .
Yes it is a movie about a girl who gets abused.
I first watched this movie one night on tv, I was a teen then, and I remember loving it so much, I'm not into BDSM and I was too young to understand all the themes, but I was like "I just watched something really good, I don't fully undesrstand but it was great".
This is such a beautiful analysis of this movie. I love the depth you've added to it. I never really understood why i loved this movie so much, but I've always related to the movie, in a weird way? The more i watch you break down each character and their progression, i relate heavily to the characters and their story.
James Spader is FOREVER playing the smoldering sexy brooding dude haha
This movie is a hidden gem...
This Is just every repressed burned out gifted good girl's fantasy, *change my mind*
I mean, I’m not repressed 🤷♀️
I feel personally attacked by this comment 😂
I hate and love this comment equally
Damn I’m exposed
It's not my fantasy because the thought of doing this with a senior work colleague is nasty and scary. Mostly scary. I think dom sub roleplay is only okay if the real life situations of the people involved are people of the same level e.g. office workmates and they're just acting for the dom sub roles. When it's a boss and employee, that's an abuse of power. With real life consequences
I love this movie, but it made me uncomfortable the last time I rewatched it recently. The consent thing is really challenging for me after being through sexual abuse. Physical gestures aren’t enough, it has to be verbal in my world, as mind & body operate on different levels, and they didn’t have prior agreements. I’m sure there would be more of an issue around that if there wasn’t a happy ending. I also want to point out that mr.Gray acts predatory towards her from the get-go, asking if she’s married. The Polaroids make me think he did similar things to other women. Their love story romanticizes their issues; it only becomes okay because they’re falling for each other, think about it. P.S. She didn’t cut herself by mistake that first time, as much as I remember, the accident was the depth of the cut.
I agree. If something like this happened irl the man would absolutely be deemed as being in the wrong, like that try guys situation or something.
yes and not everyone needs verbal discussion, and this is, at the end of the day, a fictional story not meant to represent real life.
@@megsleyNoone said it should. She just said she was uncomfortable with it due to her own personal experience. That's completely valid lol
"deal with your feelings and what caused them instead of expecting the outside world to dissuade them"
Why are men never held to this standard? They can fully expect for almost all media to never hurt them at all, much less to the level that media is used to hurt us
Dude, it's literally a stereotype to tell men to "man up", men are told to suck their feelings up all the time while women are told to 'let it out'. Idk where you get the notion that it's the opposite in media or society in general.
I love your accent so much. I could listen to you talk all day 💕
This was such a beautiful movie analysis, and of such a calibre that I miss seeing in the golden age of video essays. I noticed, in fact, that I have saved multiple of your videos to my to-watch list without realising they were all your content! I’ve never watched this movie, exactly due to how it’s portrayed in general - a simple erotica. I’m surprised to learn this is actually a very layered story with a thought-out cinematography! Thank you for this banger!!
Certainly none of my favorite RUclipsrs would have a review of my favorite niche film from 2002… of course you do 🤣 amazing work as always!
this is so interesting because i feel similarly about the relationships between Charlotte Bronte's characters. I don't really like the relationship in Jane Eyre and I do think that the red flags are very real, but you get the sense that Jane and Mr. Rochester do fit together. As Jane herself says, if anyone else was in their relationship, it could be very toxic, but it works for them (this, though, I find a rather disturbing fantasy). At the end of the book, Bronte takes pains to equalize the two of them.
I love the relationship between Lucy and M. Paul in Villette. M. Paul is bossy and pushy and occasionally misogynistic, but he also, every step of the way, respects Lucy and her mind and her wishes more than any one else in the book. Lucy gains independence through her relationship with M. Paul which is why, despite the surface-level confrontationalism between them, I think their love story is genuinely very sweet.
I always had the idea that Gey was never real; it was just a version of herself that taught her to love herself. The version that loves and accepts herself with all her damaged past, needs and desires. She thinks of herself as a monster that can't be loved, so she creates Grey while dating that guy. The end is about her finally accepting herself as she is. That's why she says she finally feels beautiful.
That is a very interesting interpretation, I'd never thought of it that way before.
@@jaclynconrad2472 It's the beauty of filmmaking, it can say something different to all of us. In the end, it's all about her journey to becoming her own self, and that's why the film talks to so many of us, I think.
Heartened to hear your review of this odd and disarming picture. I saw myself in each of the characters when it appeared on Netflix recently. I rose after the playing time with a sense of relief.
This has always been one of my favorite films! It shows how a REAL sub/dom relationship works between two people who are damaged, lonely, socially awkward, etc... UNLIKE that crap multimillion 50 Shades of Gray stupidity lol
I love that movie, but that doesnt mean it is a healthy relationship, así you say "she doesnt know how to maintain dominance over her own existence" so she lets another person do it
When this film came out, I also was a pretty militant (I’d say feminist, but I don’t want to lie to all of you) misandrist, and was insanely protective of women (Still am), and I got a loooottttt of hate for liking this movie. I don’t think it would matter what the gender was of the characters, honestly. Two people who were broken and missing parts of themselves found them in the other. Sure, she cross-addicts, but everyone does.
it’s just “problematic” in the sense that the dynamic is built off of misogynistic societal norms. Yes, there is an undeniable power imbalance. No amount of good chemistry really changes that. Women being subservient and hit by women, consensually or not, is a direct mimic of actual patriarchal relationships and how we are taught to see women in society. So yes the movie is misogynistic. it’s not egregiously cruel or cause for protest, but im tired of people ignoring the reality of it😭
I LOVE JAMES SPADER SO GODDAMN MUCH
This is one of my favorite movies of all time and I've tried to explain this exact point to so many people, not only about this movie but about the BFDSM world and kink in general. I love what you did here!
One of the sweetest love stories
I wonder if every intelligent traumatized feminist go through the same cycle of guilt, confusion, and acceptance. I relate to the initial quote so much, and i look forward to my thirties hoping i’ll be able to cope even better with my feelings and ideas.
Acceptance of what? Male sexual abuse as a totes normal empowerfulizing thing that you should totally *want*?