I just want to say I appreciate you showing actual gameplay of the tier list items in question. Most tier list creators simply talk about a tier list item, place it in a tier, then move on without actually showing it in action. Thank you for actually SHOWING each item in action 🙏
Well, I think it's best to show off spells by actually showing them! I also hope that the tierlists I have created can also be used as somewhat of a guide since I am also trying to explain what each spell does.
Yep. Sanctuary on level 12 enchanter wizard gale making cazador orin raphael and yurgir all do the dance macabre and they can just watch i dismantle the adds, and then them
Fog Cloud has a nice bit of out-of-combat utility as well: It doesn't count as an aggressive action _and_ it prevents most NPCs from seeing what you do. Remember the old basket-over-the-head trick from Skyrim? Fog Cloud is how you do it in BG3. You can steal _so much_ stuff. In particular, the smith in the Act I refugee camp has a Breastplate +1 lying in the open...one of the best medium armors you'll see for quite some time. But annoyingly he never actually offers to sell it. Well, you can just help yourself to it with a Fog Cloud...
Worth pointing out that once the refugees leave, it remains (along with everything else) and no longer counts as stealing, even for the Druids there. But I get it, you want the good armour as soon as possible lol
Bless is S tier as an ability from artefact. But I almost never cast Bless because of concentration required. There's a ring which gives bless with healing.
@@trick6pokemon624 There's some late-game gloves that do the same thing but with some extra goodies on top, but the gloves last pretty much the entire game. They're amazing.
Chromatic orb should go up a tier because the lightning orb creates an electrified water surface, getting enemies wet and boosting the damage of further lightning and cold attacks! That on top of the variety of effects it can provide for only one known/prepared spell makes it a must-have for all of my casters.
And that's on top of having some very respectable damage. In the early game, it's most probably going to be your strongest single target spell, and in the late game, it's a cheap way to spread surfaces and target potential weaknesses whilst still dealing respectable damage. This spell is always very useful to have (especially since in the lategame I generally have few level 1 spells that I keep due to limited slots for prepared spell as I really prefer to have tons of LV2 ones, so having a versatile one like that is a pretty solid choice for me)
In the time frame it takes you to set up wettening a single target, you could likely kill the enemy or wetten multiple enemies. I wouldn't rank it any higher than its ranked tbh.
I think Chromatic Orb should also get a boost for versatility. On your first playthrough especially, you often don't know what kinds of vulnerabilities and resistances are going to show up in the next fight. And for later playthroughs, it's still nice to give to a Sorcerer, so you know you'll always have at least one elementally-appropriate spell.
For such situations I prefer shocking grasp. It's a cantrip, and can electrocute the enemy to allow you to run away without triggering opportunity attacks.
Thank you for the tier list! One remark about it though: you mostly rank spells by their usefulness late-game, but those spells are at their most useful in the early-game, where their ranking would be pretty different. Sleep is definitely S-tier early game. Tasha's Hideous Laughter is great for the early boss fights. On the other hand, spells like Shield or Mage Armor aren't as good, because you need those spell slots to do some damage or control.
As I tried to say for some spells, their usefulness wanes at the game goes on. I don't particularly want to rate each spell in early, mid and late game, so I try to give an overall rating based on their usefulness throughout the game.
I would like to say thank you for making these videos. There is plenty of Spell ranking videos out there but most people just sit on the tiermaker website and don't show off the spells or niche uses of it in game. I hope people will find your videos more often.
Thank you for this video. You have put so much effort into this. And this has not only helped me learn which spells are the best, but I actually learnt how to use some of these spells and how to combo into another. Great video. Please continue for the higher tier spells.
As bard I find Dissonant Whispers to be very useful. It does damage, control and doesn't require concentration, making it one of the best level 1 spell to cast when you're concentrating on something, especially because bard doesn't get any good damage cantrips and Dissonant Whispers is just a better Viscous Mockery in most sense.
I find that in the higher levels the damage done doesn't justify its cost of a level 1 spell slot for me in most situations. Where there are just a few enemies then I do think its value increases as we are affecting a higher proportion of enemies with a condition.
@@CasualVeteranGamer it’s more in the line of what else do I use my level 1 slots for. Command is obviously the best but that’s a secret spell. I could save the slots for healing words but I’d usually end the day with a bunch of unused lv1 slots this way.
@@CasualVeteranGamer The ring that makes illusion/enchantment spells only take a bonus action after you attack gives this some fantastic value for a martial Bard imo. Tier 1 spells aren't so hot later in the game, so burning one to frighten an enemy with added damage for only a bonus action is pretty great.
Very accurate tier list with way more knowledgeable explanations than a lot of other bg3 content. Would just add as a side note that twinning tasha’s hideous laughter to cc 2 targets as a copper draconic sorcerer is a really efficient use of resources.
Not sure if anyone pointed out but magic missiles can abuse damage riding items and can deal towards of 600+ dmg in total, as demonstrated in one of my vids. Otherwise I think this is a great assessment of rankings.
Hunter’s Mark is S-Tier for a Beast Master because Prey’s Scent applies the bonus damage from the spell to attacks made by your pet as well. It also synergizes with the Circlet of Hunting.
I would've put grease in A or even crit, personally. It trivializes some fights where there's an choke point (or you can make your own when you get wall of fire, wall of stone, etc.) and is one of the rare level one offensive spells that stays relevant until the end of the game. Doesn't require concentration too! One is more than often another at low levels, and you can spam them due to their cheapness later when enemies start to get a bit more mobile/ranged.
I honestly don't think Grease is even worth the spell slot in BG3 with how common Grease bottles are. I have a huge supply of them at any time just from looting crates and bodies even though I've never bought one. The only benefit to the spell is that it has a higher save DC now that they've fixed surfaces not scaling with spell save DC.
Create or destroy water will remove invisibility from enemies within the aoe. I know you put it in S tier already, but I started to use this spell in the fight against the devil in act 2 that Raphael asks the party to kill.
You're not the first person to comment this! It's something I have done before, but completely forgot about when making the video and really cements its position in S-tier.
I combo command with spike growth to make enemies run back and forth through the spikes with approach and flee. Drop spike growth right on top and then command them to walk back and forth. Can be used as early as lvl 3 with a druid and cleric
Hey hey CVG :) I love this tier list, you do a really great job in showing us each spell in the actual game. The dungeon dudes recently started a lvl 1 spells tier list as well, only for all DnD spells, so that's cool to see and compare different Media of applying the rule sets to. One thing I find interesting is the hate Bane often gets. Because imo it's better than people give it credit for. Afaik it's one of the only effects in the game that lower enemies' saving throws. Bless does also not help in that regard, it only improves your own ones. With many of the high level spells depending on saving throws, Bane is a really good effect in the later game and the Charisma saving throw is not so often resisted, especially against non humanoid creatures. Bless is still better, of course, but I think poor Bane deserves at least a B :P Have a good day and I hope you continue the great content
Hey there! I haven't dungeon dudes in a while, but I do think they do good videos. It is interesting to see what spells comes out on top in BG3 compared to tabletop. Something that annoys me about bane is that is requires a saving throw to make it affect an enemy, and if they were baned then they would be more likely to fail! You are right about the fact that enemies in general do tend to have a lower charisma. At least for wisdom saving throws there is a chance to give disadvantage to enemies with the dazed condition.
Reducing enemies saving throws is great but you’ll get gloves of baneful striking early on. It basically free bane without concentration. I guess the issue is with concentration and how many spells competing for it. It always good to boost your own rather than debuffing enemies cause once they died, you can’t reapplying the spell
you can add "cheeky quasit" spell to your common spells, if you use the scroll where the mirror is and talk to shovel as a warlock or wizard or a sorcerer also bards, choose the first few dialogue options (don't change it's name & do not tell it that killing is bad). do all that or read the cursed book and go back to where the mirror was and summon shovel, then it will tell you how to summon it again. worked for my warlock and my bard. (F5 to be sure you have shovel at your side...forever) i chose these dialogue options (1,1,1,1,2) could change for you, that what i chose.
One little tip about the cheeky quasit summon/shovel, if it is invisible when the fight started, you can move it anywhere during the fight and it won't be in turn based mode. Very useful if you just want something to help trigger your rogue's sneak attack
Create water also trivialized the Hag fight for me. I cast water to put out the fire on the cage and then was easily able to tell which woman was real due to the wet condition.
@@mufasafalldown8401 I used sanctuary. After reloading. Because I didn't quite 'get' that the ogres meant it when they said they would attack anyone around them.
One thing i want to point out is while you have Armor of Agathys enemies will try to avoid hitting your spellcaster because they don't wanna kill themselves on you (at least on tactician) but ofc you can force aop and you can cast create water to double that amount, it's hilarious having enemies that do low dmg just kill themselves on you for 30-40 dmg + fireshield blue
dissonant whispers gets the nod from me simply for being one of the few disables that doesn't need concentration. Bard has been an amazing CC bot for my party and I love this spell
I was perhaps a bit harsh with it, but what I think could better about it is the duration of the frightened condition. I would say that it is more useful in situations where there are fewer enemies because it affects a high percentage of the enemies for that turn.
Another great situation to use "Create Water" is when fighting enemies who create illsionary versions of themselfes. If you cast it on them before they cast the illusion you can always identify the "original" one. Really helped me against Ethel.
You wouldn’t need to do that for ethel battle. The easiest thing to do is to examine and the real ethel will have the most number of buffs than the clones
What you think about a Githyanki/Half-Elf Abjuration Wizard? -You can get a high AC with Light Armor + Shield or Medium Armor. -You can learn Armor of Agatys and use the Abjuration Shield to protect the armor HP, this way you can deal a lot of Damage.
The thing is with Armour of Agathys, if we want to do damage with it, we actually want to be hit so having a high AC isn't necessary. However, if you find yourself without the spell and the abjuration shield, then obviously a high AC would be better. I like being able to have shields as there are several that increase spell save DC, so a half-elf is a good idea. Having said that, githyanki are an amazing race mechanically!
I'm almost through my first playthrough snd i am encouraged that my usage of spells fits aling with this for the most part. Definitely have a few to try using a bit more often though. Great video, thanks!
I love your tier lists! Your explanations of the pros and cons are excellent. The one point of contention for me is Bane. Bless is generally better (although Bards don't get it) but, in addition to nerfing enemies' attack rolls, Bane makes them more likely to fail saving throws. I'd have it on par with Faerie Fire at A-B tier. While the effect of FF is arguably better, the enemies you really want to hit with FF are often high DEX enemies... and FF has a DEX saving throw. Against those enemies you're usually better off with Bane, as it makes potent damage and control spells more likely to land on dangerous enemies. It also doesn't hit allies and can target enemies that are a long way apart. The Harold heavy crossbow with auto-Bane is sooooo good too.
What I don't like about bane is that it can only affect three creatures at level 1, and they can still make their initial saving throw. I love the effect of bane, and all the items that can give it to an enemy are great in my opinion.
@@CasualVeteranGamer it’s easy to up cast for more targets, although there usually isn’t much point. Just pick the 3 that are most likely to cause problems and Bane them. And you don’t have to worry about hitting allies!
There's actually two quasit scrolls. The 2nd one is found in the Genie's Lamp in act 3, it's there mostly as a backup option so you have a way of escaping the lamp without having any party members trapped inside forever.
That's a good point. I am avoiding items that inflict the same conditions because they don't have the same cost of a spell slot, but rather take up that equipment slot instead, and it's difficult to compare the two.
I generally agree with your ratings, but a bit of constructive advice I'd add is maybe having some rules for how you rate and voice this at the beginning. You kinda do this with each individual spell but it's not consistent. I'd personally think things like does the spell do more than 1 thing, is it build dependant, can it be used by any class, do they work on saves/conditions, are they unique or can the effect be replicated other ways etc. A way to look at this could be spells used if they were a scroll and so a damage spell might use a specific attribute and so could be lower down by default as this would be class specific. Generally, spells that benefit the team or affect numerous enemies with no save or attribute requirement would be critical...Bless as an example, as you said. If a spell only does damage, no matter how much, then it could be considered lower as there are a lot of ways to damage, BUT if it affects a lot of enemies or causes another effect then it could be higher. As an example, and even though they're higher level spells, I would view Glyph of Warding trumps Fireball as it has more utility whereas Fireball causes more damage but one damage type and so is essentially one dimensional and cancelled out with resistances. I think this would be helpful to have some considerations and outline what these are so you set the tone for the video. With all the above I'd definitely disagree with your rating for Armor of Agathys haha As a scroll any class can use it and it provides temp hit points and retaliation damage, but upcasting if you have it as a spell makes this deadly in combination with wet effect. If you wanted to use a lvl6 spell slot you can get 30 temp hit points and do 30 unavoidable damage if it, but with wet effect this is then 60!!! That's 60 damage to an enemy on their turn or just you using movement to encourage an opportunity attack, so you'd still have your action/bonus action. The utility with this means you have more defence as enemies tend not to target you, but you can force a hit on you with their opportunity attack for melee enemies. It's also no concentration and doesn't have a turn limit where it'll run out. I'd think this meets every criteria in any sense for S class. I enjoy your vids though :)
To be honest I didn't actually set any specific rules, and I do think that I am swayed more by utility than other times. I will certainly think about it and try to include one when I record the next tierlist, which at the moment would be the level 3 spells. For Armour of Agathys I think it works particularly well with abjuration wizards who can block incoming damage, but towards the end of the game 30 HP can disappear very quickly! Edit: And thank you for responding in a way that really is constructive!
One thing Magic Missile is useful for is breaking concentration, each hit procs a DC10 concentration check and since it cannot miss, it's useful for breaking enemy spellcasters concentration with just a level 1 spell.
I didn't know about Chromatic Orb creating surfaces, this bumps up the spell in my personal rankings since I will sometimes use Create Water on a single enemy as a setup for my Tempest Cleric, being able to do that while potentially doing extra damage makes it objectively better than Create Water if you don't need the aoe.
I will agree that for most people Witch Bolt is not particularly useful, however it is good if you are a Blue Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer with the feat Elemental Adept to ignore resistance. My base damage for it as a level 1 spell slot is 1d12+10 this is because of both the Elemental Affinity damage, plus the Necklace of Elemental Augmentation both of which add your charisma modifier to the damage. Plus using Meta Magic twinned spell lets you link two enemies for the extra hits.
I would personally have ranked dissonant whispers at A tier, I find it really useful to do a bit of damage, force a concentration save, and frighten an enemy, while my bard is concentrated on a control spell, for a low cost. The extra CC my bard can throw around while already concentrating on something like hypnotic pattern tends to make difficult fights feel much more manageable. No disrespect to you or your opinion, of course!
One thing to consider for bless, the ring whispering promise gives you a non concentration 2 turn bless when healing. This is much better than the spell and can even be achieved by throwing a healing potion if you don't want to use a spell slot.
Mine's quite similar +/- 1 tier for each spell. If I have things different, I usually place spells that are direct damage down a tier, and spells that give support or CC up by one. The only one that I think I placed two tiers off was Tasha's Hideous Laughter which I had at an A. I liked the spell coming from tabletop. I still think that being able to remove a single enemy from the fight for several turns, throughout the entire adventure, for just a 1st level spell slot is punching above its weight. Especially with Enchantment Wizard's level 10 feature. It's in a bit of an awkward spot since single enemy removal isn't as powerful in BG3 as it is in tabletop DnD. Alpha-striking is a lot more powerful here. But with some difficulty mods and self-imposed restrictions on resting frequency and banning the more egregious items like bloodlust elixirs and potions of speed, I think it can quickly become premier again.
That's all understandable, controls spells are certainly very powerful in tabletop. I didn't want to make assumptions on what spell save DC, but if it is quite high, then we can rely on enemies failing their continuous saving throws. In that case I would put it higher.
I actually quite like colour spray - although im only like level 6 now i find it helpful because its 1) guaranteed to work 2) great defense for my squishy gale 3) can give my whole team a turn with advantage i find it good for guaranteeing _that one guy_ gets dead, and keeping my boy alive.
Spells like Entangle get a lot of mileage when you can manage your turns correctly. If you have a good opportunity to put an Entangle in before that group of enemies gets their turn, and have an ally that is able to follow up with a spell that forces a dex saving throw after, or someone firing a Smokepowder arrow (personal favorite), it's very reasonable to ignore both the fact another effect will override it on the field, and that it's a concentration spell. You've given multiple enemies on the field disadvantage on their attacks, stopped their movement, and gave multiple allies advantage on dex based save attacks. That's actually huge value for just a turn or two for a lvl 1 spell slot. In these cases with a level 1 spell like this, you just ignore the fact it's concentration as a negative I believe. It's nice that it can be on the field for more turns if you maintain it, but it's a low value asset that you can drop for something next turn. You can also get mileage FROM the fact it's concentration, if you utilize Concentrated Blast from the Illithid powers. Getting a source of concentration at low spell slots is very valuable to pump out extra damage each turn with minimal cost. I actually didn't realize the interaction Fog Cloud has with Darkvision, I wouldn't imagine it worked like that. It's something I'll have to use more often, I kind of already do the same thing with Arrows of Darkness, and darkness effect is typically harder to build around. So while it won't replace it, if I know I'm fighting foes that don't have Darkvision to see through the fog, it's a cheaper alternative.
RE: inflict wounds value being inflated by lack of firebolt/eldritch blast for clerics, isn't produce flame the cleric analog? Little worse (d8, requires two clicks) but they do have a basic attack-roll cantrip spell available. I hear a lot of discussion of sacred flame on clerics and none of produce flame, maybe because the tooltip bug suggests it doesn't scale at 5 and 10 (although it does)? It even gets them access to some of the tech intended to bring wiz/sorc cantrips slightly closer to eldritch blast's performance (Necklace of Elemental Augmentation, Ring of Elemental Infusion, Hat of Fire Acuity, etc)
Even once we get the final upgrade to cantrips it's still behind in damage, but if you do give a cleric the necklace that increases damage then it is an alternative at that point. However that's at level 10, that's quite far into the game and then you're locked into using that piece of gear to improve the cantrip. Keep in mind that inflict wounds can be upcast, which is ideal when someone is held or sleeping to guarantee the critical hit. It is an alternative, but I'd argue it's a worse alternative to inflict wounds. One thing scared flame has going for it over produce flame is that it's radiant damage, which helps significantly in Act 2, and can mean that radiating orbs can be applied using it. I should, however, have mentioned produce flame in the video!
Goodberry is one of those spells that can be abused later on, mainly because uppcasting it doesnt make berries heal more, but you get more berries, since the berries dont go away, you can have enough berries to do a long rest and even get some spares, so they can be used to have infinite food suplies/healing
Inflict Wounds, is my go-to low-level damage spell for when my cleric is in melee, so it gets a good rating (from me) for that. Guiding Bolt at range, Inflict Wounds close up (because no disadvantage when in melee). I'd rate them equally good myself (ie both A tier). I do understand that IW suffers later on against undead (though there are almost none of them in Act 1, which accounts for half your levels), but having a good melee spell is valuable for an in-your-face cleric. Because of the wet + cold and wet + electric double damage, I'd rate Chromatic Orb as A tier, for it's flexibility and for a little extra damage with Thunder, if you are not exploiting cold/electric. I even like to take a Wizard Initiate feat (or a one level dip there) as a Tempest Cleric, to get Chromatic Orb Interestingly, I don't really miss not having Mage Armour up and running (though things might change, playing on Tactician level). Faerie Fire is a good spell and I wouldn't change the tier you put it in, but because it requires a Dex save, it is often saved against. For those that get the free gift of the appalling-looking Fane's helmet (ported over from DOS2) there is no point in having Disguise Self, not that I tend to use it. The one time I did try to use it to get back into the goblin camp to interact with the baby owlbear, after killing the goblin leaders, I got attacked whatever 'face' I chose. I did think going in as a Drow would get me accepted, but no. Despite my comments, I think the list is spot on for almost all the spells.
Thanks for your comments and insights. One thing I would for mage armour is that by the end of the game the bonuses to attack rolls for the enemies is getting quite high and so if you don't have extra AC stacking from other sources, 13+dex for your AC isn't much different from just 10+dex. However, there are pieces of equipment that can increase your AC further so at the end of the day I do still tend to cast mage armour to get to an AC of around 17-20 or so, depending on whether the character can carry a shield.
Not to spam comments, but goodberry is amazing for long rests- Recruiting’s the “not a real character” Druid from withers, spec him as circle of the land, and by something like level 4 he has enough slots to entirely provide a long rest with goodberry if you’re ever running low on supplies
Very true! I know some would scoff at the idea, but why not if it's what you need to long rest whenever you want. Personally I'd find it too monotonous to do that each time, but I can see how it would be useful.
the supplies economy doesn't really justify this tho. Even on tactician I find I've got days and days and days of camp supplies, end up selling some of them. There's too many "food rooms" to loot XD
I think I like chromatic orb combined with twinned spell. It seems to make it more worth it but it’s so situational, I still wouldn’t score it any higher that you did.
I avoided taking into account twinned spell because it really affects a lot of spells and I feel like I would need two different entries, one for twinned, and one without twinned. At which point, I would then have to take into account all the different wizard schools etc.! Having said that, I do agree with what you said. It can really make some spells much more worthwhile casting.
I could argue for Armor of Agathys being S tier. You are right that the biggest problem is accessibility, however I think that's only true in DnD 5e, where the only way to get it (off the top of my head) is multiclassing into Warlock or maybe using a feat, both having major downsides. In BG3 though, Armor of Agathys is so accessible. The removal of stat requirements for multiclassing means anyone can dip into Warlock for multiclassing,or better yet, the Draconic Sorcerer with the appropriate Draconic Ancestry, which is better if you just want the spell since you're not losing out on spell progression. Furthermore, because of the changes to Scribe Spells for Wizard, you can go crazy with multiclassing spellcasters. The biggest downside of multiclassing spellcasters is that for example even if you have level 4 spell slots you might not have level 4 spells to cast if you're multiclassed, which is a big deal since actual level 4 spells are generally more powerful than a lower level spell upcasted to level 4,with very few exceptions like Armor of Agathys. A Wizard dip in any spellcaster multiclass fixes this immediately by letting you scribe a spell of the highest level you can cast, and there's always a spell worth getting even if you have 8 int like Haste which doesn't involve your Int score. So basically, Armor of Agathys is so accessible because you can easily dip into Sorcerer to get it, a dip into Wizard meanwhile fixes a lot of the downside of multiclassing spellcasters in general (if you want to). A lot of changes in BG3 makes getting Armor of Agathys be really cheap in terms of opportunity cost.
I used ice knife in Rafael’s mansion. I would use it on the smaller enemies that exploded so basically it would kill them, they’d explode and melt the ice, so I’d use a lightning damage spell for double damage and wipe the floor with them
There is a staff that you get that buffs bless even further, so it basically doubles its effect, and then triples it for spellcasters. I got it in act 2 I think. And the cleric can wield it with a shield because it's versatile.
A bit of meta gaming... bane is "soft taunt". Character that is concentrating on a spell have higher priority in attack queue from enemies. Thus you can use it on paladin to force them to attack your strongest defense
@@CasualVeteranGamer I find it great on paladin as support for casters and "hit me" spell. But you are completely right. Any concentration spell works.
Sleep is way lower for me. It has some niche use cases, which is why I keep a scroll of sleep around, but its not worth a known/memorized slot. Throwable potions of sleeps, Glyph of Warding - Sleep and Hypnosis are AoEs, disable enemies, and don't have an HP dependent mechanic
Charm person isn't concentration, so if you are fighting a big bad boss you can charm it with your concentration caster to pevent them from being targeted
Tasha's hideous laughter is a go-to disable for Arcane Trickster rogue. If you got a hat with arcane acuity from act 2 and a couple of arrows of many targets, you can shut down a lot of bosses on turn one, with 0 chance of them to recover. Took down Raphael that way on Tactician. Compared to Sleep, which is only useful in a fights against level 1 enemies (so, first half of the first act) or find familiar, which is similarly falls out of usefulness rather quickly, I would say that Tasha's deserve her place in an A tier at the very least.
Great explanation for all the level 1 spells! But bruh, anytime you put a tier list together and you have more in your "S" tier than anything else, you have royally messed up the placements. Well almost anyway, you put 3 of the last 4 into "C" just to avoid that. But again, nice explanation for them all and with actual demonstrations as well. Very nice!
I personally think since ensnaring strike and hail of thorns are basically your bread and butter for ranger spell slots early game, they should be rated a little more highly on the list. Since that's basically the only thing you would do with your spell slots, and they basically give you a use of your bonus action since they just roll a normal attack. Once you get later in the game and have access to a few of the higher level ranger spells they might not be as useful but they are pretty good until then and I know I regularly used them into act 3.
I put the Callous Glow and Coruscation rings on Gale as an Evocation wizard. His high level magic missiles can just melt a high AC opponent as the first hit puts the radiant orb on the enemy and each hit after does an extra 2 radiant damage. Crazy combo
For charm person, you forget the critical thing. Its not concentration. So if you play solo and upcast it to 5 people, they are simply out of combat for 10 turns. Which is huge deal but kinda niche.
I made a Ranger with Ensnaring Strike and Hail of Thorns. I passed on Hunters Mark because it turns you into a one trick pony. deep into Act 2 Ensnaring Strike is still good...though I do have the ability that gives them disadvantage on the saving throw for it. Hail of thorns just never gets used. If 2 enemies are close together I use Horde Breaker instead. I really wanted it to be better.
But the question is, would you use Hail of Thorns if you didn't have Horde Breaker? It makes sense it doesn't get used if it is the weaker of two redundant powers. But if it is an option for certain situations you don't otherwise have covered...
@@Axterix13 certainly not after lvl 5, unless you could get 3 enemies in one shot, which would be very rare. The spell uses your action and bonus action and a spell slot to hit 2 people. When you have 2 attacks it is just not worth it. Even when upcast it's still not doing a lot of damage. Horde breaker gives me 3 attacks per round, and if I cast entangling strike I can still make the extra attack. And hunters mark would always be active on someone. The only thing you get with hail of thorns is it is not concentration, but nor are my longbow attacks. I think next lvl I'll get 3rd lvl spells, so I'll try it out and see if it does better at 3rd level.
I think the important part for me is your sentence in the middle "Hail of thorns just never gets used". I've always found that there is something better to do instead of Hail of Thorns.
I'd personally rate colour spray higher, probably a B tier or at least a high C. Between the fact that it prevents opportunity attacks and can give all advantage against a single target. I'd also rate Ice Knife slightly lower. I know people like it, but it is an ST spell and past level 5 it is hard to justify using it instead of a simple ray of frost which is a pure attack. Other than that, I think I agree with everything.
If colour spray lasted longer I would like it more. I do like that blinded stops opportunity attacks. Ice knife certainly does drop off, but I do like that it creates an ice surface.
Just checked it again, and hex does not work with MM, even if the spellmight gloves do. I think it's more that the spellmight gloves work with everything at the moment rather than only with spells with attack rolls.
Great list agree with almost all of these. I think you underestimate how great Tashas hideous laughter is though, it's S tier imo. Also Bane is an easy A tier because it targets Charisma which is usually one of the best stats the target for saving throws and it's one of the only spells that can lower enemies saving throws. Sanctuary is S tier for sure since it's busted in BG3 compared to DnD5e.
Goodberry can give you infinite camp supplies using a druid hireling! When you want to take a long rest, burn all the hirelings slots on goodberry and enjoy a free long rest!
I have to disagree with SEARING SMITE. As a Paladin, you typically don't have to use Concentration for many other Spells. Doing 1D6 more damage on one attack may not be crucial later in the game, but potentially setting an opponent with a big health Pool on Fire and burning them for 10 turns is substancial. That being said, and considering my personal experience, I see it as a B-Tier Spell. Also, Witch bolt has an additionnal utility, as your caster stays linked with the target. Which means, it indicates the location of a ceature that has gone invisible. You can also keep hitting them while they are invisible if you are able to maintain concentration. Which can come in handy in some boss fights in this game. As for the Rest of the Video, I can agree with everything you said. Also, I enjoy your videos as they are really well done (and mostly Spoiler free). Keep up the good work.
The earliest explanation (and the most complete history you get for ages, or maybe ever in one place) of Ketheric you get is from a damn rothe in grymforge. He just explains the entire story for you lol. Now, this has no MECHANICAL benefit. Technically I guess you never have to give a shit about who ketheric is at any point at all. But it sure felt cool to be like "oh yeah, him."
Thing I hate most about DnD 5E is that almost every spell has a save so any plan you had goes out the window. Some say "oh now you have to think on your feet. Improvise!" I would but improvisation also requires dice rolls!
Good list! The gameplay with it is great. I disagree on a couple of spells and I'm happy to explain why! Mage Armor is way higher than it should be, it competes with robes/light armor in the game which generally have powerful unique effects. It's B tier at best definitely, S tier at the start of the game, D tier near the end so B tier. Bane is too low, taking off a d4 to the enemies saves against your spells (and your whole parties spells!) and weapon effects like dazed... is amazing. It's incredibly strong early game and still good later on. The existence of Bless does not invalidate it as being a strong spell or the same should apply to Shield of Faith/Protection from Evil and Good. It's also worth noting Bards get access to Bane so it's an incredibly good early/mid game concentration spell for them competing solidly until level 5 spells. Even then, it's a cheap, powerful level 1 spell, definitely not C tier, it's A tier absolutely. Feather Fall doesn't really do enough to get an S, it's less useful than the other utility spells like Longstrider and Disguise self imo. Even if you're not taking into account potions, Mystra's boots just straight up give you it at will. Even even if you're not counting that, I would say it's solidly A tier, not quite S. A spell that relies on you making mistakes is generally not amazing and even though the effect is incredible and it's free, the opportunity cost alone compared to the other utility spells I disagree it's at the same level. Dissonant Whispers triggers your own attack of opportunity and it's psychic damage and it goes on the class that doesn't traditionally get many damaging spells, the bard. Starts off borderline S tier and ends up low B, definitely deserves at least a B if not a low A tier. Tasha's Hideous Laughter is straight up amazing, idk what you were cooking with that one. Solid A tier, incapacitating without follow up saves in C tier, what?! High A tier absolutely, S tier even. But yeah besides that totally solid list nothing besides these is super out of place, nice work.
Thunder Wave is A tier for me. Even into Act 3 I'll have someone Misty Step behind a group of enemies at the beginning of combat, them thunderwave them all closer to my team so they can deliver a thrashing.
Early game I gave the hunting short bow that gives Hunter's Mark to Astarion and it worked wonders on him. I imagine it does fall off in the late game but it's carried me through Act 1
There is one other scroll of summon Quasit in BG3 in Act 3 inside the Mage tower there is a genie lamp interacting with it will teleport you inside and there is a scroll of summon Quasit and if you use any other summon you can get out of the lamp with the scroll still in your inventory
Although many spells here are debatable for me(I would move some one tier down or up) the one I have to strongly disagree is thunderwave. There are soooo many fights that a single cast of this spell autotomaticly wins it. You can cheese like 70% of the fights in act 1 with thunderwave. The fact that it only takes lvl 1 slot only makes it better in the late game since you don't have many lvl 1 spells worth using then. Even when there are no cliffs/chasm you can still use it to knocback enemis to not proc opportunity attack or setup some powerfull aoe for another party member. Easly an S tier spell.
Armor of Agathys should be S tier imo. You said A tier because it's limited to a very few number of classes, and requires you to be in melee to work. I don't think spells being being available to few/many classes should have any effect on that spells effectiveness. Eldritch blast is not good because it is only available to warlocks, its good because it hits hard, is force damage, it scales with CHA potentially, and it hits multiple people. It being rare isn't a factor, so why is it for Armor of Agathys? Also, I think the context of this being a warlock spell matters, and upscaling is what really is good about this spell. Being able to precast before combat is important, because its defense without costing actions in combat for damage. Its a spell that gives you warlock potentially MORE hp than a barbarian, that also does damage. I cannot ever see this spell as not S tier. How warlock spell slots work are basiclly why this spell is so good. edit: fixed many typos lol
That's a fair point, and I've tried to avoid taking that into account in my next video. My problem with the spell is that plenty of ranged attacks come our way and the cold damage doesn't apply to ranged attacks. The upcasting of warlocks is great for this spell indeed!
I just want to say I appreciate you showing actual gameplay of the tier list items in question. Most tier list creators simply talk about a tier list item, place it in a tier, then move on without actually showing it in action. Thank you for actually SHOWING each item in action 🙏
Well, I think it's best to show off spells by actually showing them! I also hope that the tierlists I have created can also be used as somewhat of a guide since I am also trying to explain what each spell does.
this series makes me happy 😊
Sanctuary S tier at the top
Have to agree, sanctuary does miracles for not only avoiding damage, but practically let’s ensure concentration won’t be broken while it is up
Yep. Sanctuary on level 12 enchanter wizard gale making cazador orin raphael and yurgir all do the dance macabre and they can just watch i dismantle the adds, and then them
Sanctuary also stays up when dealing damage with wall of fire
Yeah, this is pretty much the only change I would have made on this list tbh. I effectively used sanctuary right up until endgame.
Daylight/blood of lathander + sanctuary = dead vampires
Fog Cloud has a nice bit of out-of-combat utility as well:
It doesn't count as an aggressive action _and_ it prevents most NPCs from seeing what you do.
Remember the old basket-over-the-head trick from Skyrim?
Fog Cloud is how you do it in BG3. You can steal _so much_ stuff. In particular, the smith in the Act I refugee camp has a Breastplate +1 lying in the open...one of the best medium armors you'll see for quite some time. But annoyingly he never actually offers to sell it. Well, you can just help yourself to it with a Fog Cloud...
Worth pointing out that once the refugees leave, it remains (along with everything else) and no longer counts as stealing, even for the Druids there. But I get it, you want the good armour as soon as possible lol
“don’t expect this to be a quick video.” This is exactly what I like to hear. Your thoroughness makes these tier list great
Thanks. There's so much detail and I still worry that I didn't spend enough time on some spells.
Great video!! I completely agree with your rankings. The addition and Larian's implementation of ritual spells is pure delight!!
Thanks!
I only wish we had more ritual spells!
Bless is S tier as an ability from artefact. But I almost never cast Bless because of concentration required. There's a ring which gives bless with healing.
Available to buy from Volo.
That ring is OP, and I love it.
Combine it with item that gives blade ward when healing and your mass healing becomes a got tier.
@michasokoowski6651 our cleric is running this and doesn't understand what can exist in game to convince him to stop using those greens lol
@@trick6pokemon624 There's some late-game gloves that do the same thing but with some extra goodies on top, but the gloves last pretty much the entire game. They're amazing.
Chromatic orb should go up a tier because the lightning orb creates an electrified water surface, getting enemies wet and boosting the damage of further lightning and cold attacks! That on top of the variety of effects it can provide for only one known/prepared spell makes it a must-have for all of my casters.
And that's on top of having some very respectable damage. In the early game, it's most probably going to be your strongest single target spell, and in the late game, it's a cheap way to spread surfaces and target potential weaknesses whilst still dealing respectable damage.
This spell is always very useful to have (especially since in the lategame I generally have few level 1 spells that I keep due to limited slots for prepared spell as I really prefer to have tons of LV2 ones, so having a versatile one like that is a pretty solid choice for me)
In the time frame it takes you to set up wettening a single target, you could likely kill the enemy or wetten multiple enemies. I wouldn't rank it any higher than its ranked tbh.
@@MajesticFerret Right, but using the lightning Chromatic Orb creates the water for you, that's what the original comment was saying.
I think Chromatic Orb should also get a boost for versatility. On your first playthrough especially, you often don't know what kinds of vulnerabilities and resistances are going to show up in the next fight. And for later playthroughs, it's still nice to give to a Sorcerer, so you know you'll always have at least one elementally-appropriate spell.
yeah but this water puddle alone doesnt actually give the enemies the wet condition @@TheOnyxSpy
I use Burning Hands as an emergency melee range spell. It’s saved my sorcerer’s bacon on more than one occasion.
One thing I do like is that it's guaranteed damage, no matter how small that might be.
For such situations I prefer shocking grasp. It's a cantrip, and can electrocute the enemy to allow you to run away without triggering opportunity attacks.
Thank you for the tier list! One remark about it though: you mostly rank spells by their usefulness late-game, but those spells are at their most useful in the early-game, where their ranking would be pretty different. Sleep is definitely S-tier early game. Tasha's Hideous Laughter is great for the early boss fights. On the other hand, spells like Shield or Mage Armor aren't as good, because you need those spell slots to do some damage or control.
As I tried to say for some spells, their usefulness wanes at the game goes on. I don't particularly want to rate each spell in early, mid and late game, so I try to give an overall rating based on their usefulness throughout the game.
Agree with almost everything you said except shield. The shield spell is the best level 1 spell in the game and is useful every level.
shield is always useful. easy S-tier, even belongs in a tier on its own. its that good.
I would like to say thank you for making these videos. There is plenty of Spell ranking videos out there but most people just sit on the tiermaker website and don't show off the spells or niche uses of it in game. I hope people will find your videos more often.
Thank you for this video. You have put so much effort into this. And this has not only helped me learn which spells are the best, but I actually learnt how to use some of these spells and how to combo into another. Great video.
Please continue for the higher tier spells.
I'm glad that it was of help, and the higher level spells are already in the process of being made!
Cast Mage Armor on your summons and familiars! Many of them get a significant AC boost
ohhh, nice! would work with a wildshaped caster too? I play a spore druid and in act three wildshaping has lost a fair amount of utility
As bard I find Dissonant Whispers to be very useful. It does damage, control and doesn't require concentration, making it one of the best level 1 spell to cast when you're concentrating on something, especially because bard doesn't get any good damage cantrips and Dissonant Whispers is just a better Viscous Mockery in most sense.
I find that in the higher levels the damage done doesn't justify its cost of a level 1 spell slot for me in most situations. Where there are just a few enemies then I do think its value increases as we are affecting a higher proportion of enemies with a condition.
@@CasualVeteranGamer it’s more in the line of what else do I use my level 1 slots for. Command is obviously the best but that’s a secret spell. I could save the slots for healing words but I’d usually end the day with a bunch of unused lv1 slots this way.
Bard gets Eldritch Blast! All you have to do is click the multiclass button and put two points into warlock for it and agonizing blast ;D
@@CasualVeteranGamer The ring that makes illusion/enchantment spells only take a bonus action after you attack gives this some fantastic value for a martial Bard imo. Tier 1 spells aren't so hot later in the game, so burning one to frighten an enemy with added damage for only a bonus action is pretty great.
@@NZVargs Who knows the name of this ring? where can it be found?
Very accurate tier list with way more knowledgeable explanations than a lot of other bg3 content. Would just add as a side note that twinning tasha’s hideous laughter to cc 2 targets as a copper draconic sorcerer is a really efficient use of resources.
I fully understand and agree with that. I think I need to make a video that shows off good choices for twinned spell.
Not sure if anyone pointed out but magic missiles can abuse damage riding items and can deal towards of 600+ dmg in total, as demonstrated in one of my vids.
Otherwise I think this is a great assessment of rankings.
Hunter’s Mark is S-Tier for a Beast Master because Prey’s Scent applies the bonus damage from the spell to attacks made by your pet as well. It also synergizes with the Circlet of Hunting.
I would've put grease in A or even crit, personally. It trivializes some fights where there's an choke point (or you can make your own when you get wall of fire, wall of stone, etc.) and is one of the rare level one offensive spells that stays relevant until the end of the game. Doesn't require concentration too! One is more than often another at low levels, and you can spam them due to their cheapness later when enemies start to get a bit more mobile/ranged.
I think the best part is that it doesn't require concentration whereas other higher level spells with a similar effect mostly do.
I honestly don't think Grease is even worth the spell slot in BG3 with how common Grease bottles are. I have a huge supply of them at any time just from looting crates and bodies even though I've never bought one. The only benefit to the spell is that it has a higher save DC now that they've fixed surfaces not scaling with spell save DC.
Create or destroy water will remove invisibility from enemies within the aoe. I know you put it in S tier already, but I started to use this spell in the fight against the devil in act 2 that Raphael asks the party to kill.
You're not the first person to comment this! It's something I have done before, but completely forgot about when making the video and really cements its position in S-tier.
I combo command with spike growth to make enemies run back and forth through the spikes with approach and flee. Drop spike growth right on top and then command them to walk back and forth. Can be used as early as lvl 3 with a druid and cleric
Hey hey CVG :)
I love this tier list, you do a really great job in showing us each spell in the actual game. The dungeon dudes recently started a lvl 1 spells tier list as well, only for all DnD spells, so that's cool to see and compare different Media of applying the rule sets to.
One thing I find interesting is the hate Bane often gets. Because imo it's better than people give it credit for. Afaik it's one of the only effects in the game that lower enemies' saving throws. Bless does also not help in that regard, it only improves your own ones. With many of the high level spells depending on saving throws, Bane is a really good effect in the later game and the Charisma saving throw is not so often resisted, especially against non humanoid creatures. Bless is still better, of course, but I think poor Bane deserves at least a B :P
Have a good day and I hope you continue the great content
Hey there!
I haven't dungeon dudes in a while, but I do think they do good videos. It is interesting to see what spells comes out on top in BG3 compared to tabletop.
Something that annoys me about bane is that is requires a saving throw to make it affect an enemy, and if they were baned then they would be more likely to fail! You are right about the fact that enemies in general do tend to have a lower charisma. At least for wisdom saving throws there is a chance to give disadvantage to enemies with the dazed condition.
Reducing enemies saving throws is great but you’ll get gloves of baneful striking early on. It basically free bane without concentration.
I guess the issue is with concentration and how many spells competing for it. It always good to boost your own rather than debuffing enemies cause once they died, you can’t reapplying the spell
you can add "cheeky quasit" spell to your common spells, if you use the scroll where the mirror is and talk to shovel as a warlock or wizard or a sorcerer also bards, choose the first few dialogue options (don't change it's name & do not tell it that killing is bad). do all that or read the cursed book and go back to where the mirror was and summon shovel, then it will tell you how to summon it again. worked for my warlock and my bard. (F5 to be sure you have shovel at your side...forever)
i chose these dialogue options (1,1,1,1,2) could change for you, that what i chose.
Huh, I never knew that, thanks!
@@CasualVeteranGamer your welcome, love your work btw
Thanks a lot!
For me the most usefull thing out of this was that you describe spells in detail and show them in gameplay.
Thank you for this video, I was waiting eagerly.
One little tip about the cheeky quasit summon/shovel, if it is invisible when the fight started, you can move it anywhere during the fight and it won't be in turn based mode. Very useful if you just want something to help trigger your rogue's sneak attack
Create water can reveal invisible units. S tier confirmed
Agreed
Ahhh, I have used it for that before but failed to mention it here! Thanks for the reminder.
Create water also trivialized the Hag fight for me.
I cast water to put out the fire on the cage and then was easily able to tell which woman was real due to the wet condition.
@@mufasafalldown8401 I used sanctuary.
After reloading.
Because I didn't quite 'get' that the ogres meant it when they said they would attack anyone around them.
Awesome video! Really looking forward to level 2 and 3 spells! :)
Thanks!
One thing i want to point out is while you have Armor of Agathys enemies will try to avoid hitting your spellcaster because they don't wanna kill themselves on you (at least on tactician) but ofc you can force aop and you can cast create water to double that amount, it's hilarious having enemies that do low dmg just kill themselves on you for 30-40 dmg + fireshield blue
Yeah. I made a video including Armour of Agathys trying to make opportunity attacks happen for that reason!
dissonant whispers gets the nod from me simply for being one of the few disables that doesn't need concentration. Bard has been an amazing CC bot for my party and I love this spell
I was perhaps a bit harsh with it, but what I think could better about it is the duration of the frightened condition. I would say that it is more useful in situations where there are fewer enemies because it affects a high percentage of the enemies for that turn.
I don't have the storage space or the money for bg3 but I'm watching so many guides that soon I will be able to simulate the entire game in my head
I hope one day you're able to play!
@@CasualVeteranGamer thanks
Another great situation to use "Create Water" is when fighting enemies who create illsionary versions of themselfes. If you cast it on them before they cast the illusion you can always identify the "original" one. Really helped me against Ethel.
You wouldn’t need to do that for ethel battle. The easiest thing to do is to examine and the real ethel will have the most number of buffs than the clones
What you think about a Githyanki/Half-Elf Abjuration Wizard?
-You can get a high AC with Light Armor + Shield or Medium Armor.
-You can learn Armor of Agatys and use the Abjuration Shield to protect the armor HP, this way you can deal a lot of Damage.
The thing is with Armour of Agathys, if we want to do damage with it, we actually want to be hit so having a high AC isn't necessary. However, if you find yourself without the spell and the abjuration shield, then obviously a high AC would be better.
I like being able to have shields as there are several that increase spell save DC, so a half-elf is a good idea. Having said that, githyanki are an amazing race mechanically!
@@CasualVeteranGamer thank you
I'm almost through my first playthrough snd i am encouraged that my usage of spells fits aling with this for the most part. Definitely have a few to try using a bit more often though. Great video, thanks!
Love your vids, seeing you uploaded is such a treat!
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoy them!
I love your tier lists! Your explanations of the pros and cons are excellent.
The one point of contention for me is Bane. Bless is generally better (although Bards don't get it) but, in addition to nerfing enemies' attack rolls, Bane makes them more likely to fail saving throws. I'd have it on par with Faerie Fire at A-B tier. While the effect of FF is arguably better, the enemies you really want to hit with FF are often high DEX enemies... and FF has a DEX saving throw. Against those enemies you're usually better off with Bane, as it makes potent damage and control spells more likely to land on dangerous enemies. It also doesn't hit allies and can target enemies that are a long way apart. The Harold heavy crossbow with auto-Bane is sooooo good too.
What I don't like about bane is that it can only affect three creatures at level 1, and they can still make their initial saving throw. I love the effect of bane, and all the items that can give it to an enemy are great in my opinion.
@@CasualVeteranGamer it’s easy to up cast for more targets, although there usually isn’t much point. Just pick the 3 that are most likely to cause problems and Bane them. And you don’t have to worry about hitting allies!
There's actually two quasit scrolls. The 2nd one is found in the Genie's Lamp in act 3, it's there mostly as a backup option so you have a way of escaping the lamp without having any party members trapped inside forever.
Beautiful work, thanks a lot, showing effect in make truly helps beginners rather than just talking like many others.
You have my sub!
Great that you also do demonstrations in game instead of just talking about the spells! Subscribed
Great tier list. I'm happy to see someone finally found courage to make it.
I know there will be people who respond in a silly way, but I hope that I can create some discussion and sharing of ideas for the spells.
@@CasualVeteranGamer I also love to creat tier lists. It othen helps structuring things in mind and gives new ideas which always fun to find and test.
For Bane, so many items give Bane as a side effect that I don't even remember using the spell version once.
That's a good point. I am avoiding items that inflict the same conditions because they don't have the same cost of a spell slot, but rather take up that equipment slot instead, and it's difficult to compare the two.
I generally agree with your ratings, but a bit of constructive advice I'd add is maybe having some rules for how you rate and voice this at the beginning. You kinda do this with each individual spell but it's not consistent. I'd personally think things like does the spell do more than 1 thing, is it build dependant, can it be used by any class, do they work on saves/conditions, are they unique or can the effect be replicated other ways etc. A way to look at this could be spells used if they were a scroll and so a damage spell might use a specific attribute and so could be lower down by default as this would be class specific. Generally, spells that benefit the team or affect numerous enemies with no save or attribute requirement would be critical...Bless as an example, as you said. If a spell only does damage, no matter how much, then it could be considered lower as there are a lot of ways to damage, BUT if it affects a lot of enemies or causes another effect then it could be higher. As an example, and even though they're higher level spells, I would view Glyph of Warding trumps Fireball as it has more utility whereas Fireball causes more damage but one damage type and so is essentially one dimensional and cancelled out with resistances. I think this would be helpful to have some considerations and outline what these are so you set the tone for the video. With all the above I'd definitely disagree with your rating for Armor of Agathys haha As a scroll any class can use it and it provides temp hit points and retaliation damage, but upcasting if you have it as a spell makes this deadly in combination with wet effect. If you wanted to use a lvl6 spell slot you can get 30 temp hit points and do 30 unavoidable damage if it, but with wet effect this is then 60!!! That's 60 damage to an enemy on their turn or just you using movement to encourage an opportunity attack, so you'd still have your action/bonus action. The utility with this means you have more defence as enemies tend not to target you, but you can force a hit on you with their opportunity attack for melee enemies. It's also no concentration and doesn't have a turn limit where it'll run out. I'd think this meets every criteria in any sense for S class. I enjoy your vids though :)
To be honest I didn't actually set any specific rules, and I do think that I am swayed more by utility than other times. I will certainly think about it and try to include one when I record the next tierlist, which at the moment would be the level 3 spells.
For Armour of Agathys I think it works particularly well with abjuration wizards who can block incoming damage, but towards the end of the game 30 HP can disappear very quickly!
Edit: And thank you for responding in a way that really is constructive!
One thing Magic Missile is useful for is breaking concentration, each hit procs a DC10 concentration check and since it cannot miss, it's useful for breaking enemy spellcasters concentration with just a level 1 spell.
Unless they cast the shield spell then yeah its great for that.
I didn't know about Chromatic Orb creating surfaces, this bumps up the spell in my personal rankings since I will sometimes use Create Water on a single enemy as a setup for my Tempest Cleric, being able to do that while potentially doing extra damage makes it objectively better than Create Water if you don't need the aoe.
chromatic orb can't make water, but lightning or cold chromatic orbs are probably the best spells for hitting wet targets early game
I admire your passion for the game!
Thanks! I can say with certainty that I'm not the only one passionate about the game ;)
@@CasualVeteranGamer Perhaps, but you bring a unique energy! I still have not finished the game...14th attempt or so lol.
Restartitis I assume!?
@@CasualVeteranGamer Yes, it is sadly pathological for me but this time....
I will agree that for most people Witch Bolt is not particularly useful, however it is good if you are a Blue Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer with the feat Elemental Adept to ignore resistance. My base damage for it as a level 1 spell slot is 1d12+10 this is because of both the Elemental Affinity damage, plus the Necklace of Elemental Augmentation both of which add your charisma modifier to the damage. Plus using Meta Magic twinned spell lets you link two enemies for the extra hits.
use lightning chromatic orb instead
I would personally have ranked dissonant whispers at A tier, I find it really useful to do a bit of damage, force a concentration save, and frighten an enemy, while my bard is concentrated on a control spell, for a low cost. The extra CC my bard can throw around while already concentrating on something like hypnotic pattern tends to make difficult fights feel much more manageable. No disrespect to you or your opinion, of course!
same. I would put either B or A tier. it’s quite strong IMO
One thing to consider for bless, the ring whispering promise gives you a non concentration 2 turn bless when healing. This is much better than the spell and can even be achieved by throwing a healing potion if you don't want to use a spell slot.
That is a great ring, but sometimes I want to be able to bless 3 people at once. The lack of concentration from the ring is very useful indeed though.
These videos are great for learning little tips & tricks that i didnt know about some spells and cantrips. Please do one for every level 🙏
combining magic missiles with lighting charges can deal insane amounts of damage even at level one
I did this with Gale and the Sparklestaff, its nuts
@@rutgercake9117 There is another item that you can get early that gives you temporary hit points when you gain lighting charges as well
Mine's quite similar +/- 1 tier for each spell. If I have things different, I usually place spells that are direct damage down a tier, and spells that give support or CC up by one.
The only one that I think I placed two tiers off was Tasha's Hideous Laughter which I had at an A. I liked the spell coming from tabletop. I still think that being able to remove a single enemy from the fight for several turns, throughout the entire adventure, for just a 1st level spell slot is punching above its weight. Especially with Enchantment Wizard's level 10 feature.
It's in a bit of an awkward spot since single enemy removal isn't as powerful in BG3 as it is in tabletop DnD. Alpha-striking is a lot more powerful here. But with some difficulty mods and self-imposed restrictions on resting frequency and banning the more egregious items like bloodlust elixirs and potions of speed, I think it can quickly become premier again.
That's all understandable, controls spells are certainly very powerful in tabletop. I didn't want to make assumptions on what spell save DC, but if it is quite high, then we can rely on enemies failing their continuous saving throws. In that case I would put it higher.
Based on my usage it's shield and longstrider, but I've got a mage heavy party atm. Time to watch the video!
Two top notch spells for sure!
shapeshifter's boon ring makes disguise self even better
Your tier lists are pretty good, would watch more of them for different games
Thanks! I'm not sure I have enough experience in other games to give an informed decision about them though.
If guiding bolt didn’t miss half the time it’s might be better! Even with 75% hit it misses. I’m like Shadowheart, OPEN YOUR EYES
Haha, come on Shadowheart, hit something!!
She can’t see past the shadows in her soul, lol.
I actually quite like colour spray - although im only like level 6 now
i find it helpful because its
1) guaranteed to work
2) great defense for my squishy gale
3) can give my whole team a turn with advantage
i find it good for guaranteeing _that one guy_ gets dead, and keeping my boy alive.
Spells like Entangle get a lot of mileage when you can manage your turns correctly. If you have a good opportunity to put an Entangle in before that group of enemies gets their turn, and have an ally that is able to follow up with a spell that forces a dex saving throw after, or someone firing a Smokepowder arrow (personal favorite), it's very reasonable to ignore both the fact another effect will override it on the field, and that it's a concentration spell. You've given multiple enemies on the field disadvantage on their attacks, stopped their movement, and gave multiple allies advantage on dex based save attacks. That's actually huge value for just a turn or two for a lvl 1 spell slot.
In these cases with a level 1 spell like this, you just ignore the fact it's concentration as a negative I believe. It's nice that it can be on the field for more turns if you maintain it, but it's a low value asset that you can drop for something next turn. You can also get mileage FROM the fact it's concentration, if you utilize Concentrated Blast from the Illithid powers. Getting a source of concentration at low spell slots is very valuable to pump out extra damage each turn with minimal cost.
I actually didn't realize the interaction Fog Cloud has with Darkvision, I wouldn't imagine it worked like that. It's something I'll have to use more often, I kind of already do the same thing with Arrows of Darkness, and darkness effect is typically harder to build around. So while it won't replace it, if I know I'm fighting foes that don't have Darkvision to see through the fog, it's a cheaper alternative.
RE: inflict wounds value being inflated by lack of firebolt/eldritch blast for clerics, isn't produce flame the cleric analog? Little worse (d8, requires two clicks) but they do have a basic attack-roll cantrip spell available. I hear a lot of discussion of sacred flame on clerics and none of produce flame, maybe because the tooltip bug suggests it doesn't scale at 5 and 10 (although it does)? It even gets them access to some of the tech intended to bring wiz/sorc cantrips slightly closer to eldritch blast's performance (Necklace of Elemental Augmentation, Ring of Elemental Infusion, Hat of Fire Acuity, etc)
Even once we get the final upgrade to cantrips it's still behind in damage, but if you do give a cleric the necklace that increases damage then it is an alternative at that point. However that's at level 10, that's quite far into the game and then you're locked into using that piece of gear to improve the cantrip. Keep in mind that inflict wounds can be upcast, which is ideal when someone is held or sleeping to guarantee the critical hit.
It is an alternative, but I'd argue it's a worse alternative to inflict wounds. One thing scared flame has going for it over produce flame is that it's radiant damage, which helps significantly in Act 2, and can mean that radiating orbs can be applied using it.
I should, however, have mentioned produce flame in the video!
Goodberry is one of those spells that can be abused later on, mainly because uppcasting it doesnt make berries heal more, but you get more berries, since the berries dont go away, you can have enough berries to do a long rest and even get some spares, so they can be used to have infinite food suplies/healing
Inflict Wounds, is my go-to low-level damage spell for when my cleric is in melee, so it gets a good rating (from me) for that. Guiding Bolt at range, Inflict Wounds close up (because no disadvantage when in melee). I'd rate them equally good myself (ie both A tier). I do understand that IW suffers later on against undead (though there are almost none of them in Act 1, which accounts for half your levels), but having a good melee spell is valuable for an in-your-face cleric.
Because of the wet + cold and wet + electric double damage, I'd rate Chromatic Orb as A tier, for it's flexibility and for a little extra damage with Thunder, if you are not exploiting cold/electric. I even like to take a Wizard Initiate feat (or a one level dip there) as a Tempest Cleric, to get Chromatic Orb
Interestingly, I don't really miss not having Mage Armour up and running (though things might change, playing on Tactician level).
Faerie Fire is a good spell and I wouldn't change the tier you put it in, but because it requires a Dex save, it is often saved against.
For those that get the free gift of the appalling-looking Fane's helmet (ported over from DOS2) there is no point in having Disguise Self, not that I tend to use it. The one time I did try to use it to get back into the goblin camp to interact with the baby owlbear, after killing the goblin leaders, I got attacked whatever 'face' I chose. I did think going in as a Drow would get me accepted, but no.
Despite my comments, I think the list is spot on for almost all the spells.
Thanks for your comments and insights.
One thing I would for mage armour is that by the end of the game the bonuses to attack rolls for the enemies is getting quite high and so if you don't have extra AC stacking from other sources, 13+dex for your AC isn't much different from just 10+dex. However, there are pieces of equipment that can increase your AC further so at the end of the day I do still tend to cast mage armour to get to an AC of around 17-20 or so, depending on whether the character can carry a shield.
Not to spam comments, but goodberry is amazing for long rests- Recruiting’s the “not a real character” Druid from withers, spec him as circle of the land, and by something like level 4 he has enough slots to entirely provide a long rest with goodberry if you’re ever running low on supplies
Very true! I know some would scoff at the idea, but why not if it's what you need to long rest whenever you want. Personally I'd find it too monotonous to do that each time, but I can see how it would be useful.
the supplies economy doesn't really justify this tho. Even on tactician I find I've got days and days and days of camp supplies, end up selling some of them. There's too many "food rooms" to loot XD
Oh absolutely- as much as anything as a bit of a worrier i find knowing it’s an option makes me much freer with the long rests than I’d otherwise be
Oh absolutely- as much as anything as a bit of a worrier i find knowing it’s an option makes me much freer with the long rests than I’d otherwise be
I think I like chromatic orb combined with twinned spell. It seems to make it more worth it but it’s so situational, I still wouldn’t score it any higher that you did.
I avoided taking into account twinned spell because it really affects a lot of spells and I feel like I would need two different entries, one for twinned, and one without twinned. At which point, I would then have to take into account all the different wizard schools etc.!
Having said that, I do agree with what you said. It can really make some spells much more worthwhile casting.
I could argue for Armor of Agathys being S tier. You are right that the biggest problem is accessibility, however I think that's only true in DnD 5e, where the only way to get it (off the top of my head) is multiclassing into Warlock or maybe using a feat, both having major downsides.
In BG3 though, Armor of Agathys is so accessible. The removal of stat requirements for multiclassing means anyone can dip into Warlock for multiclassing,or better yet, the Draconic Sorcerer with the appropriate Draconic Ancestry, which is better if you just want the spell since you're not losing out on spell progression.
Furthermore, because of the changes to Scribe Spells for Wizard, you can go crazy with multiclassing spellcasters. The biggest downside of multiclassing spellcasters is that for example even if you have level 4 spell slots you might not have level 4 spells to cast if you're multiclassed, which is a big deal since actual level 4 spells are generally more powerful than a lower level spell upcasted to level 4,with very few exceptions like Armor of Agathys. A Wizard dip in any spellcaster multiclass fixes this immediately by letting you scribe a spell of the highest level you can cast, and there's always a spell worth getting even if you have 8 int like Haste which doesn't involve your Int score.
So basically, Armor of Agathys is so accessible because you can easily dip into Sorcerer to get it, a dip into Wizard meanwhile fixes a lot of the downside of multiclassing spellcasters in general (if you want to). A lot of changes in BG3 makes getting Armor of Agathys be really cheap in terms of opportunity cost.
Deep into my second campaign and I’ve learned a lot still. Especially create water, had only used it once but now I know it’s utilities
Gonna leave a like and comment now but I can’t listen until I go to work
I used ice knife in Rafael’s mansion. I would use it on the smaller enemies that exploded so basically it would kill them, they’d explode and melt the ice, so I’d use a lightning damage spell for double damage and wipe the floor with them
There is a staff that you get that buffs bless even further, so it basically doubles its effect, and then triples it for spellcasters. I got it in act 2 I think. And the cleric can wield it with a shield because it's versatile.
Tasha's laughter is a must have just for the sound effect alone.
A bit of meta gaming... bane is "soft taunt". Character that is concentrating on a spell have higher priority in attack queue from enemies. Thus you can use it on paladin to force them to attack your strongest defense
Good point! I guess any concentration spell could work?
@@CasualVeteranGamer I find it great on paladin as support for casters and "hit me" spell. But you are completely right. Any concentration spell works.
Sleep is way lower for me. It has some niche use cases, which is why I keep a scroll of sleep around, but its not worth a known/memorized slot.
Throwable potions of sleeps, Glyph of Warding - Sleep and Hypnosis are AoEs, disable enemies, and don't have an HP dependent mechanic
This is one of the most useful guides for BG3
Charm person isn't concentration, so if you are fighting a big bad boss you can charm it with your concentration caster to pevent them from being targeted
Tasha's hideous laughter is a go-to disable for Arcane Trickster rogue. If you got a hat with arcane acuity from act 2 and a couple of arrows of many targets, you can shut down a lot of bosses on turn one, with 0 chance of them to recover. Took down Raphael that way on Tactician. Compared to Sleep, which is only useful in a fights against level 1 enemies (so, first half of the first act) or find familiar, which is similarly falls out of usefulness rather quickly, I would say that Tasha's deserve her place in an A tier at the very least.
Great explanation for all the level 1 spells! But bruh, anytime you put a tier list together and you have more in your "S" tier than anything else, you have royally messed up the placements. Well almost anyway, you put 3 of the last 4 into "C" just to avoid that. But again, nice explanation for them all and with actual demonstrations as well. Very nice!
I personally think since ensnaring strike and hail of thorns are basically your bread and butter for ranger spell slots early game, they should be rated a little more highly on the list. Since that's basically the only thing you would do with your spell slots, and they basically give you a use of your bonus action since they just roll a normal attack. Once you get later in the game and have access to a few of the higher level ranger spells they might not be as useful but they are pretty good until then and I know I regularly used them into act 3.
I put the Callous Glow and Coruscation rings on Gale as an Evocation wizard. His high level magic missiles can just melt a high AC opponent as the first hit puts the radiant orb on the enemy and each hit after does an extra 2 radiant damage. Crazy combo
I think Sanctuary and Tasha's Hideous Laughter are both S tier. Very useful spells, that I used all through out my playthrough.
For charm person, you forget the critical thing. Its not concentration. So if you play solo and upcast it to 5 people, they are simply out of combat for 10 turns. Which is huge deal but kinda niche.
I made a Ranger with Ensnaring Strike and Hail of Thorns. I passed on Hunters Mark because it turns you into a one trick pony. deep into Act 2 Ensnaring Strike is still good...though I do have the ability that gives them disadvantage on the saving throw for it. Hail of thorns just never gets used. If 2 enemies are close together I use Horde Breaker instead. I really wanted it to be better.
But the question is, would you use Hail of Thorns if you didn't have Horde Breaker? It makes sense it doesn't get used if it is the weaker of two redundant powers. But if it is an option for certain situations you don't otherwise have covered...
@@Axterix13 certainly not after lvl 5, unless you could get 3 enemies in one shot, which would be very rare. The spell uses your action and bonus action and a spell slot to hit 2 people. When you have 2 attacks it is just not worth it. Even when upcast it's still not doing a lot of damage.
Horde breaker gives me 3 attacks per round, and if I cast entangling strike I can still make the extra attack. And hunters mark would always be active on someone.
The only thing you get with hail of thorns is it is not concentration, but nor are my longbow attacks. I think next lvl I'll get 3rd lvl spells, so I'll try it out and see if it does better at 3rd level.
I think the important part for me is your sentence in the middle "Hail of thorns just never gets used". I've always found that there is something better to do instead of Hail of Thorns.
I'd personally rate colour spray higher, probably a B tier or at least a high C. Between the fact that it prevents opportunity attacks and can give all advantage against a single target. I'd also rate Ice Knife slightly lower. I know people like it, but it is an ST spell and past level 5 it is hard to justify using it instead of a simple ray of frost which is a pure attack. Other than that, I think I agree with everything.
If colour spray lasted longer I would like it more. I do like that blinded stops opportunity attacks.
Ice knife certainly does drop off, but I do like that it creates an ice surface.
Pretty sure Magic Missile does work with Hex despite not having an attack roll. MM works with spellmight gloves which also is attack roll.
Just checked it again, and hex does not work with MM, even if the spellmight gloves do. I think it's more that the spellmight gloves work with everything at the moment rather than only with spells with attack rolls.
Great list agree with almost all of these. I think you underestimate how great Tashas hideous laughter is though, it's S tier imo. Also Bane is an easy A tier because it targets Charisma which is usually one of the best stats the target for saving throws and it's one of the only spells that can lower enemies saving throws. Sanctuary is S tier for sure since it's busted in BG3 compared to DnD5e.
Goodberry can give you infinite camp supplies using a druid hireling! When you want to take a long rest, burn all the hirelings slots on goodberry and enjoy a free long rest!
loved this video, cant wait for lvl 2 spells
I have to disagree with SEARING SMITE. As a Paladin, you typically don't have to use Concentration for many other Spells. Doing 1D6 more damage on one attack may not be crucial later in the game, but potentially setting an opponent with a big health Pool on Fire and burning them for 10 turns is substancial.
That being said, and considering my personal experience, I see it as a B-Tier Spell.
Also, Witch bolt has an additionnal utility, as your caster stays linked with the target. Which means, it indicates the location of a ceature that has gone invisible. You can also keep hitting them while they are invisible if you are able to maintain concentration. Which can come in handy in some boss fights in this game.
As for the Rest of the Video, I can agree with everything you said. Also, I enjoy your videos as they are really well done (and mostly Spoiler free).
Keep up the good work.
Compelled duel is noce for tanks with polearm master/sentinel. With your bonus action you can basically remove the action of a melee opponent.
What I learned from this is: Get a Cleric and a Wizard in your party and you can have all the S tier spells XD
Pretty much! Wizards get the most ritual spells which helps them a lot.
I hope you do more tier lists with other spells and stuff!
Thanks! I will definitely continue the spells tierlists, and also consider doing others as well.
@CasualVeteranGamer also actually showing how the spells work in-game helps a new player like me a lot to understand them better 😊
Sanctuary and Bless are 2 of the best spells in the game and they are both level 1 and both immediately available to Clerics.
The earliest explanation (and the most complete history you get for ages, or maybe ever in one place) of Ketheric you get is from a damn rothe in grymforge. He just explains the entire story for you lol. Now, this has no MECHANICAL benefit. Technically I guess you never have to give a shit about who ketheric is at any point at all. But it sure felt cool to be like "oh yeah, him."
Thing I hate most about DnD 5E is that almost every spell has a save so any plan you had goes out the window. Some say "oh now you have to think on your feet. Improvise!" I would but improvisation also requires dice rolls!
Magic missile should be high S you can deal 250+ damage with the right combo
Agreed
Yep! I don't want to let specific items or subclasses sway me too much because it would take too long to go over some of the spells.
@@CasualVeteranGamerthough you could totally make an 8 hour video about the most optimal way to use every spell... Nah I'm jk
Low level illusion/enchantment is solid gold to me coz of that ring that lets you use them as bonus actions as a gish.
Good list! The gameplay with it is great. I disagree on a couple of spells and I'm happy to explain why!
Mage Armor is way higher than it should be, it competes with robes/light armor in the game which generally have powerful unique effects. It's B tier at best definitely, S tier at the start of the game, D tier near the end so B tier.
Bane is too low, taking off a d4 to the enemies saves against your spells (and your whole parties spells!) and weapon effects like dazed... is amazing. It's incredibly strong early game and still good later on. The existence of Bless does not invalidate it as being a strong spell or the same should apply to Shield of Faith/Protection from Evil and Good. It's also worth noting Bards get access to Bane so it's an incredibly good early/mid game concentration spell for them competing solidly until level 5 spells. Even then, it's a cheap, powerful level 1 spell, definitely not C tier, it's A tier absolutely.
Feather Fall doesn't really do enough to get an S, it's less useful than the other utility spells like Longstrider and Disguise self imo. Even if you're not taking into account potions, Mystra's boots just straight up give you it at will. Even even if you're not counting that, I would say it's solidly A tier, not quite S. A spell that relies on you making mistakes is generally not amazing and even though the effect is incredible and it's free, the opportunity cost alone compared to the other utility spells I disagree it's at the same level.
Dissonant Whispers triggers your own attack of opportunity and it's psychic damage and it goes on the class that doesn't traditionally get many damaging spells, the bard. Starts off borderline S tier and ends up low B, definitely deserves at least a B if not a low A tier.
Tasha's Hideous Laughter is straight up amazing, idk what you were cooking with that one. Solid A tier, incapacitating without follow up saves in C tier, what?! High A tier absolutely, S tier even.
But yeah besides that totally solid list nothing besides these is super out of place, nice work.
Thunder Wave is A tier for me.
Even into Act 3 I'll have someone Misty Step behind a group of enemies at the beginning of combat, them thunderwave them all closer to my team so they can deliver a thrashing.
Early game I gave the hunting short bow that gives Hunter's Mark to Astarion and it worked wonders on him. I imagine it does fall off in the late game but it's carried me through Act 1
Inflict wounds is very good for clerics because it's the only high damage high accuracy spell for clerics and available at all levels
There is one other scroll of summon Quasit in BG3 in Act 3 inside the Mage tower there is a genie lamp interacting with it will teleport you inside and there is a scroll of summon Quasit and if you use any other summon you can get out of the lamp with the scroll still in your inventory
The "non-spell" version of Compelled duel is superb, but it shows up very late and from a very specific quest chain of events
Yes yes yes thank you!
Although many spells here are debatable for me(I would move some one tier down or up) the one I have to strongly disagree is thunderwave. There are soooo many fights that a single cast of this spell autotomaticly wins it. You can cheese like 70% of the fights in act 1 with thunderwave. The fact that it only takes lvl 1 slot only makes it better in the late game since you don't have many lvl 1 spells worth using then. Even when there are no cliffs/chasm you can still use it to knocback enemis to not proc opportunity attack or setup some powerfull aoe for another party member. Easly an S tier spell.
Armor of Agathys should be S tier imo. You said A tier because it's limited to a very few number of classes, and requires you to be in melee to work. I don't think spells being being available to few/many classes should have any effect on that spells effectiveness. Eldritch blast is not good because it is only available to warlocks, its good because it hits hard, is force damage, it scales with CHA potentially, and it hits multiple people. It being rare isn't a factor, so why is it for Armor of Agathys? Also, I think the context of this being a warlock spell matters, and upscaling is what really is good about this spell. Being able to precast before combat is important, because its defense without costing actions in combat for damage. Its a spell that gives you warlock potentially MORE hp than a barbarian, that also does damage. I cannot ever see this spell as not S tier. How warlock spell slots work are basiclly why this spell is so good.
edit: fixed many typos lol
That's a fair point, and I've tried to avoid taking that into account in my next video. My problem with the spell is that plenty of ranged attacks come our way and the cold damage doesn't apply to ranged attacks. The upcasting of warlocks is great for this spell indeed!