How many bottom layers should you actually use for resin 3d printing?!?
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- Опубликовано: 21 июн 2021
- Trying to combat tons of bad advice I've seen in 3d printing groups! :)
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I've been using your setting recommendations, including the 4 bottom layers, and it's been pretty successful for hundreds of miniatures now (and probably saved me lots of failed prints as a beginner). I think people bring the "over-do it" approach to printing miniatures, which works with duct tape but isn't the right approach with applied chemistry.
If anyone takes issues just ask them first what their temperature is of the resin when they start. Most likely reason to go beyond the 4 layers is that the resin is still warming up to proper temp for the resin and the additional layers and heat from the lcd get it there.
I had been studying your videos for weeks before I got my first resin printer. It enabled me to get started testing & fine tuning without any dramatic failures!
great that's what I'm here for! :)
Brand new to printing. Your channel has been incredibly helpful! I didn't even bother to print the test cube on my Anycubic Photon. I went straight to an Artisan Guild presupported model, used your settings, and it came out perfect. 1st try! Keep up the awesome work
Just earned yourself a subscriber, zero nonsense straight to the point woth the history to back it up. Now I'm gunna binge your other information
Just started watching Your videos, and My prints keep getting better. Thanks You.
I was ready to try anything after 5 fails, printing small flat biscuits on the FEP. I finally found the instructions in my Phrozen Sonic Mighty were wrong. They had me bed leveling with both FEP in the vat and paper. After redoing this with just paper I regained a printer, THANKS for your help 😊👍
i really like your art to explain and get the facts right. i read so much miss informations in groups either and always i feel like my head is exploding.
Onions, onions have layers!😜. Sound advice as usual Greg. Been using 4 for a long time without problems. I feel that resin temperature is often overlooked when troubleshooting. Building a little heater has made a huge difference for me in winter.
I've never had an issue using 4 either! Great explanation.
I usually think about setting hight of the base layers between 0.1 and 0.15mm when selecting the number or base layers. For example, if I'm using 0.05mm layer height, I use 3 bottom layers (0.15mm base layers total hight); if I'm using 0.02mm layer height, I use 6 bottom layers (0.12mm base layers total height).
According to this video and other videos, the large number of bottom layers is not important, but the leveling of the buliding plate and the lifting speed and lifting height along with the appropriate temperature of the resin.
I have been using 3 for my prints (.05). and you makes sense maybe you need more on a super small layer as your layers may still be squished if your doing (.035). I think that is where more bottom layers may help. so four layers would be.2 at .05 where that same distance would be 5 and a half layers at .035 so with supper fine layer height you might want 5 or 6 to be sure you don't have a squished layer but I cant see more then that.
"...that's not a pun."
I beg to differ, Sir.
It may have been! :P
Awesome explanation. Been using crazy high numbers of bottom layers too, because i read it somewhere. Switching to 4 right now :)
Thank you, this was helpful!! I appreciate it!
With the mono x where you can't turn off the transition layers then 1 bottom layer is enough as the next 9 or so will be at higher exposure.
I totally agree with your other comments, I feel people in the fb groups are in echo chambers, it's very difficult for a new starter to weed out the crap that people spew out, number 1 comment when a model pulls off supports is "re-level the bed".
When I started with 3d printing I've had constant issues with layer separation / delamination of the raft. Thankfully at at that time transition layers option came out on chitu and solve the problem with 4-5 bottom layers and 8-10 transition (along with reducing raft height). I rarely use rafts anymore but back then if I didn't had the transition layers option I might have tried a stupid amount of bottom layers.
Great video as always. Will you be reviewing Chitubox pro in any upcoming videos? Trying to decide if it’s worth it to upgrade, stick with the free version, or switch to lychee and I always really value your advice over most anyone else I’ve come across
I cant not get a print to Finnish, I watch and do what you say. my Proxima has been running great until it wasn't lol. this 1 print has stumped me... AAARRRRHHHHHH!!!!! Keep watching your videos and learn. ill Get it...
Hey man. I just found your channel and really appreciate the content. Very helpful. I’ve adjusted all my Chitubox settings for my Creality LD-002H to your recommendations but I’m still getting what appears to be a layer shift. But it’s not one. It only happens in the first several layers. It’s more like an elephant foot but only goes out to one side. I print 4 40mm disks at one time. I’ve tried adjusting the bottom tolerance b: compensation. It helps a very little but doesn’t do much. It’s hard to describe without being able to post a picture.
Makes a lot of sense to me. I would say if you're worried about not having enough bottom layers you just look at the print when you take it out, if it's not very thick on the plate then you've got a problem but if it's thick on the plate then the number of layers is definitely not the issue. If it's not very thick on the plate then you need to ask yourself if you are not lifting the plate high enough during the leveling process or if your FEP isn't rigid enough and so is flexing up and down as the build plate moves up and down. I would think those would be more of the problem. Or perhaps your resin is not curing well enough because of your print settings or something's wrong with your resin or the temperature of the room.
Awesome I'm new to the hobby I'm trying to figure all this out and the reddit rubbish is mental for these layers I'm doing 5 dropped one from default 6 in lychee for the mono 2 and it's been fine but will now try this 4 layers! Now I'm needing to figure out the exposure times I've just subscribed bit sanding on the build plate also helps
I've had been doing the default(?) 5 bottom layers and the only issues I've had were caused by temperatures being too low. Once I constructed an enclosure and warmed the resin up prior to printing all my problems went away.
Great vid. Thanks from a relatively new 3D printer user
I would agree. I've been using 4 layers height for a long time.
same here, been using 4 bottom layers as well
I experimented with this early on, trying anything from 4 layers to a full mm 'plate raft'. You know what? Four layers even for a full size 9" plate is perfectly adequate, and that was printing several 8" high statue figurines on one plate just to see what I could get away with. The BIGGEST difference I found, especially when switching from fixed to flexible build plates, was having fantastically (dare I say surgical levels) clean and scuffed surfaces for the resin to hook in to and a consistently level plate! Good ol 60 grit scuffing on my flex plates and swapping between the two with one doing an overnight soak in IPA (tried different cleaning fluids also, IPA 91% or higher worked the best at descumming the residue) nets me consistent prints that don't fail. Kinda wished I hadn't burned through so much resin experimenting, but having the first hand knowledge of what works on my printer for me is worth something too. Minimizing suction is the real wonder though, which is where those extra thick bottom layers really work against you. I've had some, shall we say, interesting effects of prints that didn't technically fail but were all kinds of warped due to just the suction forces.
I can 110% underwrite every of your words - the Flex Build plate is super (cant live without!) and easy to clean until absolutely no sign of the former print can be seen as a shadow onto it, yes!
I tried using 4 with the Anycubic plant-based resin and had a large model fall off the build plate. I upped it to 8 bottom layers and the only failure I had since was when I placed the build plate back on and started the print as soon as I had finished washing the build plate in warm water so it was still kind of hot and the resin didn't stick properly.
I also ran several tests with the file validation file that 3D Print Farm suggested, and found that there was a very minute difference between 4 bottom layers and 8 bottom layers. When I did the tests I ran did both 4 and 8 layers at both 15 sec bottom exposure and 30 exposure. The 15 second exposure I feel will be fine for smaller models, but definitely need the 8 with 30 second exposure for larger ones.
I just leave it at the default, which is 3 or 4 I think. No problems.
Edit: Actually now that I think of it I look at the suggested settings from the resin maker of possible. I do believe the Sirayatech Blu said 6.
I don't know if it's the update from Lychee or your settings, but I went from 25% success rate to around 100%. Thank you
Hi printer pro.
Can you please do a video on your settings (how you change them) for bigger printers such as mono x?
Greg, thanks for another great vid. I agree with what you are saying, but layer height could make a difference. At .01 your 3rd layer could be more squished than if you were printing at .2mm height and on your second layer. Bottom line, if you are going to super fine layer heights you might want to go to 5 or 6, but I'll bet 4 would work just as well. I use 6, and .01mm layer height, but I am going to switch to 4 now. The other factor could be resin transparency. If the resin is real transparent, you could be cooking your past layer a little bit which might increase your bond to the build plate on layers 2 and 3. Just my thoughts, I could be totally wrong. Thanks again!
I am about to run my first resin validation print. My intent, working in N scale (1/160) is to print in layer heights of .01 to .03. How did the try at 4 layers at .01 work out? Any other guidance for printing at .01? I understand it will take more time and I will have to shorten exposure times.
Hey there, I've watched several of your videos, since I am just getting in to the resin stuff, so anyhow everything make sense what you are saying, very logical, probably because of your experience I guess. Very cool info that I can relay on thanks for sharing. I'll keep watching. You look little bit like Vin Diesel, are you in to sports cars as well? me too but but unfortunately I just can't afford them. Best wishes.
Exelent explain 🤙🏻
I use 3 bottom layers with no problem.
Do you do rafts on your supports? I don't know that I'd call them required but I find they help me get supports off the build plate, even flexible plates.
Hi I know you posted this a long time ago, but what would you set your settings to if you had to just print something flat and wide? I printed a medallion for my costume and it was about 7mm thick (8cm diameter) and I had my settings at 2 seconds for normal layer and 12 seconds for my base layers (4 layers) and it was almost impossible to get off my new build plate. I had to jam at it for awhile under hot water before it finally lifted off and I got a good deep groove in my plate. I literally have only printed the test print otherwise and I plan to use this to print more smaller medallion type things so I wanted to know your advice for something like this. Should I reduce the cure time for the bottom layers even more ? I just need a way for it not to stick so well 😅 (fyi the instructions for the standard settings recommended by the company was 40seconds for the base layers! I luckily had watched your video beforehand so I didn’t do that) 😅
please review the elegoo mars 3 4k resin printer!!
Your supports are always so clean... I have some dificult models that I must print as good as posible. Would you accept comissions to support models? I would love to comission you the supportting of my files!
I've always just used 6 layers because that's what the machines defaulted to and I never saw a reason to change it. Never have I ever felt that plate adhesion would be resolved by increasing the bottom layer count though. My first fix, and usually the right fix, is to relevel the plate
I think because most of the OG printer resins could been higher, but I usually run 3 layers.
Am doing 4 bottomlayers at 9 sec. exposure. it works brilliant.
in lychee, the burn in layers for the m3 premium is 6
I've been printing with one bottom layer (whoops) nearly full build plates and larger models as well, I've not had a single fail due to adhesion to the build plate. I've only had 2 print failures in the 2 weeks I've had the printer and that was due to my supports.
lol😍perfect
Bottom layers must create rigid sheet that is stuck to build plate on one side and rest of the printed item on the other side. I call it interface layer. If this layer is too thin its not rigid enough and it can peal off the build plate. 3 layers are enough in most cases but barely, so 4 layer are nicely on the safe side.
Build plate adhesion is combination of mechanical adhesion and vacuum, at least this is my opinion, subject to discussion.
You know better than me - I'm just a novice printer. But what do you say to the idea that each individual layer has a degree of translucency because it is so thin? If so, then a certain amount of UV light will be reaching the initial layers after more than four layers, helping them to cure further and adhere to the build plate? Just my thoughts that may be completely wrong. I certainly found your recommendation to increase the lift distance for the Anycubic Photon Mono X very helpful and feel that I should probably trust you on this as well so will probably do as you suggest and limit my bottom layers to four. If it doesn't work I can always add layers so it is worth trying.
The mono X has transition layers that go from "20" to "3" gradually after complete the bottom layers
I've never understood why some people think increasing bottom layers would help with adhesion as he said in the video they don't even touch the build plate after the first one.
What exposure time do you like for the bottom layers? Any experience with transition layers?
noice thank you
Question: 4 layers too when using 20um layer height? (It's what I use most often).
Thanks a lot for this video!
yep that's what I normally print at :)
Does the layer height have any effect? I'm assuming not, but I'm curious if adhesion is influenced more by distance or number of layers.
I'm printing in 0.01mm on an Anycubic Photon Mono with 4 bottom layers without issues.
On my mono X I use 2 bottom layers naver failed me :0
what about layer height?
Sorry if this is a dumb question but for lychee is bottom layers considered [burn in layers "number of layers"] at the very top?
Creality LD-002H
CHITUBOX V1.7.0
In settings on the machine tab it has a mirror function, the three choices are:
LCD_mirror / DLP_normal / Normal.
What does it mean & which one should I use, does it even matter? Thanks for your help, I asked on the CB FB group but didn't understand the answer / could do with it being "not too sciencey"
My friend I really like your contents and the commitment to teach people, I've learned a lot with you here, but I need to comment in this video because here in Brazil we have diferent situations, im teacher as well, I teach a sla course, me and my students learn and test a loot together, with the Brazilian resins I never had a good stick on the plate when I print less then 6 bottom layer, there is one specific resin so dense that if I use less then 8 layers and less then 40 seconds on monochromatic printers or 120 seconds in polycromatic printers forget, will not work at all, witch leads me to a conclusion that depends on... depends on a lot of variable you know, the weather (if hot or cold) the density of resin and quality of it, the type of printer etc.. I watched your video about bottom layer time too, and my point is the same, with this resins I told before it's simplify impossible to have good adhesion results, I've tried many different tests with different table calibrations and in my empiric experience I tell you, everything depends on, there is not such a absolute true.... thanks for share everything and if want to talk about I am available.
P.s my ensglish is a work I progress, im sorry any mistake
Thanks for commenting! I could understand needing longer curing time for some resins or depending on your weather, but more layers doesn't seem like it should matter :)
After I watched your other video, I switched to 2 bottom layers and it's been working fine. I don't think you need more than 2 but 4 is fine if you want.
I guess the point here was, 4 is a "should work on every printer, even if not perfectly calibrated" value - unless it's set up so badly, that no settings can fix it. (and also work well enough on smaller layer heights)
@@jpjokela1 You bring up a good point... I use the default elegoo mars layer height. If someone is using a smaller layer height, they probably should increase the number of bottom layers so 4 is a good overall value.
you should start building a massive model
add a chunk of the model every video that would be good
from all them printers like 3 to 4 foot high model
So are bottom layers part of your model or is it adding layers to the model if you have your model flattened on platform?
would the number of bottom layers be related to how thick the layers are? printing at .02 vs .05 would mean your "bottom" part is .08 vs .2
Are u still using 4 bottom layers? I’ve been using 5-6 bottom layer’s about to change and stay at 4 on all my printers should I?
From what I've read elsewhere, it seems like the exception would be when you use a raft. Raft should be 4 layers thick (all bottom settings) and your model should be 2 layers thick at bottom settings to make sure it sticks to the raft. 6 total bottom layers in that case.
To me that's misinformation :)
@@3dprintingpro212 Curious why you think that? I was following advice from AmeraLab's blog post on how to properly raft.
ameralabs.com/blog/default-3d-printing-raft-settings/
Have you tried this and found it to cause issues?
@@3dprintingpro212 asking again, since I'm genuinely curious. Is it that you haven't read/tried their advice (no expectations that you would have, that's fine), or is it because you have tried it and you had problems with it?
@@jvaleske I've read it, I don't agree. I know it wouldn't cause problems either, but 4 layers works perfectly over thousands of prints for me...
@@3dprintingpro212 Makes sense. Thanks for responding!
Do you save anymore printing time in doing this? compare to 5-7 layers?
You would save whatever time each bottom layer cure times the number of layers you have. My guess is you only save 2 minutes at best but that's not why you're doing it. Reduce to 4 layers to reduce wear and tear on your machine.
@@stinkyham9050
Your right thanks for the info
What about printers like the mono x that has something like 10 transition layers, and you can’t turn them off?
That's Ok but transition layers are another thing I find peculiar, from a logic standpoint... :)
@@3dprintingpro212 so I turn them off?
Anycubic Mono X doesn’t let us turn them off.
At least not yet.
Burned into firmware.
Nice video, but I think you omitted one thing.
And as like you said, no proof, just common sense here :)
A resin layer always sticks to exactly 2 things: The build platform (on the very first layer), and from that point on, the previous layer.
...and in addition to that, the FEP film.
So when you increase the amount of bottom layers, you make more layers stick hard to the FEP film (evident from the ripping noise when raising the build platform). And that force is kind of trying to rip the print off from the build platform, thus making failure potentially a bit more likely.
On the first layers this is still necessary (print generally gets stuck to print platform harder than FEP)
I totally agree with you one how the bottom layers are used. It even makes sense.
BUT!
How do you actually KNOW that 4 layers are the "end all"? Without actually doing a real check, you have no clue if the very first layer is actually squished, right?
You might want to do a multi test to see what each layer specs to to know for sure that your guesses are correct.
My thinking is if the 3rd layer is a full, non-squished layer, then the 4th is unnecessary, right? What about it being the 2nd?Without an actual test to know what the real layer height is for each layer, these are only guesses and not really conclusive.
Have you done any prints with just 3 layers?
if I change the bottom layer count do I have to still recalibrate all my settings
nope just the bottom :)
@@3dprintingpro212 thanks printing pro
Let's see some of these 0.2 prints. 😏
TL;DR 4 bottom layers. 6:45
Engagement :)
Your story sounds logic but the bottomlayers always stick to the build-platform and that build platform is usually made of aluminum conducting the heat very well and that let the heat flow away.
So no problems with the bottomlayers.
Thick layers with a large section higher up in the print should be more problematic, at least in my opinion.
4 bottom layers and how many seconds?
Different for different printers and resins :)
@@3dprintingpro212 why the times of my Photon Mono Se it's lá longer that Chitubox says? Like Double the time
@@3dprintingpro212 my resin in Brazil says it has to be 100 seconds on Bottom layers and 8 seconds per layer. But photon Mono they say 4 seconds it's enough
:D
😖 Ok dude I’ll use 4 bottom layers, just don’t hurt me.
Leave it to the pros
Is it a big deal to pay A monthly fee for TWO programs? YES! I will not pay a monthly fee for ANY program. I’ll buy a license… once! But I will not be milked for a subscription
Don't be a layer hater, maaaaan.