Sorry for the dips in audio quality on this episode! We're investing in some new equipment that should make future episodes both faster to edit and more consistent across the board! Thank you for supporting our channel and making this happen. Check out TJ's channel here: ruclips.net/video/a9WYst0j9ac/видео.html&ab_channel=TJTheEmperor Check out Symfonikev here: ruclips.net/video/puUjEp04Gg0/видео.html&ab_channel=symfonikev
@@forestcampbell8962Hell is REAL. Repent of your sins and turn to God. He loves you. Believe in his Son Jesus and you'll be saved. RUclips: 30 Days Touring HELL
Timestamps: 1. Intro (0:00) 2. Introduction of the special guest (0:10) 3. TJ's motivation for creating an in-depth retrospective on the Xenosaga triology (1:05) 4. Availability, ports and fan translations (5:22) 5. Explaining the concept of the podcast (8:10) 6. The early career of Tetsuya Takahashi at Squaresoft (11:00) 7. Tetsuya Takahashi co-founds Monolith Soft (24:40) 8. What is Xenosaga and where does it fit in the larger Xenoverse? (32:34) 9. Minor spoiler for the ending of Xenogears (34:46) 10. cont. (35:24) 11. The importance of Kaori Tanaka (36:51) 12. The overambitious nature of Xenosaga and its impact on Takahashi and Tanaka (39:05) 13. Why did Monolith Soft restructure after Xenosaga Episode I? (56:25) 14. Key developers and staff on the Xenosaga triology (1:05:00) 15. Differences in directorial style between Xenosaga Episode I and II (1:15:49) 16. Takahashi returns for Xenosaga Episode III (1:22:08) 17. Monolith Soft finds a new publisher and Xenoblade Chronicles (1:31:53) 18. Xenosaga engine only completed six months before release (1:34:42) 19. Evolution of character faces throughout the Xenosaga triology (1:37:45) 20. The story of the podcast outro song (1:41:01) 21. Yasunori Mitsuda and the music of Xenosaga (1:44:57) 22. Where to play to for next two episodes (1:48:36) 23. Outro (1:51:16)
Watching Tetsuya Takahashi bludgeon the gaming world with Xeno games until the world finally loved them, has made me smile. Seeing Xenoblade Chronicles 3 being talked about online the same way FF games used to probably makes him smile.
This episode was absolutely phenomenal. TJTheEmperor is such a great addition to the team, and I think this has to be by far one of my favorite episodes on the podcast, especially with regard to how interesting the dev history of Xenosaga was overall. It really gave me a sense of Tetsuya Takahashi’s insatiable ambition as a creator, and gave credit to the extremely underrated Kaori Tanaka / Soraya Saga for her work in the Xenosaga franchise as well. I love the idea of having an additional guest who is familiar with the work in question to come on for games that both Mike and Casen haven’t played yet, and I hope to see TJTheEmperor come on more times if he is willing and able to. Kudos to everyone involved; you guys are seriously killing it with the quality of your content.
I have to respectfully disagree. I think he took so much away from the flow I'm used to in these pods. The incessant use of "like" and, God for I'd if you're watching it and see TJ grab his chin and look up and/or over to the side literally every time he talks, is really really off-putting. It really takes away from everything else.
@@thomasjackson2496Hell is REAL. Repent of your sins and turn to God. He loves you. Believe in his Son Jesus and you'll be saved. RUclips: 30 Days Touring HELL
God bless you for jumping into this series after doing 84 episodes on Xenogears. I don't catch every episode, but I want to say it's really classy (and smart) that you bring in other RUclipsrs that have done their own retrospectives on these games so they get the credit and hits they deserve.
Really really excited for this one. There just aren’t a whole lot of discussions about Xenosaga out there. Thanks as always for all your fantastic work.
HOLY CRAP ITS FINALLY HAPPENING. After all these years I’ve been a viewer, back when you were still Dark Pixel and had Casen’s brother on the team I have been hoping you’d cover this game someday. Thank you so much Mike!!!
I've been watching since Mike's original FF reviews. Im not exactly sure when he posted them initially, but i found them in early 2012, when i was bedridden sick with pneumonia...Before Casen, and his brother joined. Infact, his ffiii review convinced me finally pick it up and finish it!!
Takahashi has ambition of a universe creating author. The reality is that telling a story via a video game or movie takes a lot more resources and time unlike a book that uses the readers mind to process information. It takes a special kind of person to decide what content to keep or throw away when your passionately invested. BTW, I can't wait to be reading Mike's future novel!
I just finished playing through Xenogears while watching your earlier podcast! It was such a fun experience and I am super excited to hear what you guys have to say about Xenosaga! I've beaten this already, so it'll be nice to kick back and enjoy this one each week. Keep up the great work guys, you're always the highlight of my day!
The Xenosaga series is one of the saddest examples of falling from grace that I've experienced in my 35 years of RPGs. Final Fantasy has gone from the top to the absolute bottom in recent years, but man, Xenosaga 1 was a perfect game almost, and they decided to throw out all the stuff that worked for the sequels. I'll never understand their thinking on that
@@jmarra07 Oh yeah I totally get that! Each one of these 3 games are pretty different from the last. Both in terms of graphics and gameplay. But part of me actually really likes how chaotic this series is, I've learned to appreciate certain aspects of each one as I got older. But I totally agree, Xenosaga 1 is pretty great even with some of its flaws (I wish I could speed up the gameplay XD).
@@jmarra07 it may be just because i played xenogears in 1998, but as excited as i was for the release of xenosaga, i found even the first one horribly disappointing. xenogears was so full of life and spirit, but xenosaga felt absolutely dead inside - not even the mitsuda ost (which really felt more overtly sci-fi) could save that game from feeling so cold and so bland to me. i've never tried episodes 2 or 3. (xenoblade is good stuff, thankfully.)
@@jmarra07 I really enjoyed Xenosaga I and thought they massively overreacted with changes they did to Xenosaga II. that said, Xenosaga III was the peak of the series for me so I thought they totally recovered in that game.
You guys have never played these games? o_0. Well prepare for probably the most over the top ambitious project ever created at the time of its development. It was so FAR ahead of its time in terms of its presented storytelling visual medium.
@@emilyantiqua Any%, not Any% Glitchless (which is Enel). Working on trying to figure out a better Gargoyle strat before I tackle Glitchless because I don't like having a more than 50% chance of run death through RNG that far into the run.
After hearing about how ambitious the story for the xeno universe is I cant help but compare it to Yu Suzuki and his work on Shenmue. Having planned out several installments ahead of time and even having work intended for the first game end up on the 2nd. I think it might be interesting topic for a deep dive for you guys. I mean the development history portion is right there from it originally being a virtua fighter rpg to Yu Suzukis crazy ideas for what his kind of roleplaying game would look like.
Really stoked for this series. I kinda get where he's coming from but still don't fully agree that video games are a bad medium for story telling, it's just a much bigger challenge to manage. It goes into the statemnet about the importance of maps vs story. In a book you only have to discribe the setting and whats happening, in manga or anime you draw it out and such, but in a game you have to make the environment interactive. How successful you are at making that entertaining is going to directly affect people's take on the game as a whole, but additionally its a huge creative/time constraint in an environment of strict deadlines. I Agree that he probably wouldn't stand by that statement now. I used to think that characters where the most important aspect in storywriting in such years ago but there have been a few things since then where I absolutely hate every character but was so drawn into the world and where the story could go that I kept watching (Sword Art Online probably the biggest example of this).
Every time I hear about Xenosaga's development I slowly but surely get heated, I remember coming acros Kos-Mos' design where it showed her with wings in like a gaming magazine or something similar when I was young and being immediately taken by her. Hell for little me that may have been my first crush or at least the first time I felt such infatuation with art. So yeah I get a little aggravated. THEN you guys brought up FF15 and I REMEMBER the original trailers of Noctis less than an hour in I was already SEETHING. Thanks for the video guys appreciate it.
My favorite RPG of all time- i know it had its problems, but to me it will always be perfect. The depth these characters had was awe inspiring and it truly made me feel something unlike other games had.
I think Takahashi and his wife saw themselves writing in a fashion of Frank Herbert with Dune or G.R.R. Martin with Song of Ice and Fire. Those story's were developed over decades as well! And Complicated as heck.
Soraya Saga seems to be working on personal manga projects now, trying to get something published, so I think she's focused on taking her writing and artistic talents, and putting it into something smaller and with a lot less business politics. She's still married to Takahashi personally, but it seems she doesn't care about big budget projects anymore. She wants smaller stuff. Its why she worked on Pied Piper and Soma Bringer.
OMG can't believe Mike Agreed to do this one. After Xenogears I thought it would be years before they dared tip their feet back into this series. This is one of my favorite games of all time, and while I usually have trouble keeping up w/ Mike and Casen's schedule for these retrospectives (having a job eats up a lot of play time) I gonna make a concerted effort this time. So excited to hear their thoughts on the game (and maybe the series).
Great to see someone covering this overlooked and underrated JRPG series. I’m a longtime fan of Xenosaga, so if it’s okay I’d just like to make a small clarification/correction (assuming I didn't misinterpret what you guys were saying): Episode 1 wasn’t 20% of the plan for that game itself; it was 20% of the complete story of the first arc in Takahashi’s epic, aka Shion’s arc, which was originally supposed to be told in Episodes 1+2, with the second arc being told in Eps 3+4 and the third and final arc in Eps 5+6. But ultimately we only got Shion’s arc, 1/3 of the complete picture, and it ended up requiring three episodes/games instead of just two as originally planned. Regarding the restructure in the development team for the series after Episode 1, personally I’m not sure “Takashi wanted it to happen” would be the best way to describe it; I’d say “Takahashi went along with it” would be a more strictly accurate description, since there’s little available information on and insight into Takahashi’s thoughts and feelings during the whole thing. However, it’s the exact opposite with his wife, Soraya Saga, who was very outspoken during the restructure, since she was removed from the project altogether despite being one of the co-authors of the story and the lead writer for Episode 1. And thanks to all the evidence we have from her firsthand account of the process, once again I personally don’t think it’s entirely accurate to call it a "debunked rumor" that there was meddling from higher-ups that prevented Takahashi and Saga from fulfilling their vision. Yes, there was no meddling on _Namco’s_ part, as Soraya Saga herself made clear with her statement on Namco being very supportive and allowing: "The parent company has been kind enough to allocate reasonable budgets, development times, and promotional campaigns for the series. I've been grateful to them for their help." But Soraya Saga kept a blog at the time and she made numerous posts on the changeover in the series and its staff after Episode 1, and she made it very clear that she was removed from the project against her wishes and was deeply hurt by that, going as far as to state that (she wrote this herself in English as she is fairly fluent in it): “No offense to anyone or anything. But you would know how it depresses your feeling, if you lost an egg you've been hatching for so many years. I had been really looking forward to see a flight of our dreams.” So while there was no meddling from Namco, one of the co-authors and lead writers was still kicked from the project against her wishes by the higher-ups at Monolith Soft itself (and yes, those included Takahashi himself, Saga's husband, which is indeed weird, but perhaps like you guys speculated he couldn't prevent that due to it being a group decision). If you’re interested in reading more about this, I highly recommend checking out the article “The History of Xenosaga” on the Xenogears & Xenosaga Study Guide website: xenogearsxenosagastudyguide.blogspot.com/p/the-history-of-xenosaga.html I was part of the forum community of this website back when it still had one and the creator of this Study Guide did an amazing job compiling information from virtually all the materials and interviews ever released about the games and their development. And honestly, the story of the Xenosaga series’ development is almost as interesting and dramatic as the story of the games themselves, so I do think it’s worth checking out. Btw, another small correction, Norihiko Yonesaka, who became the lead writer for episodes II and III, did have a writing position in Episode 1: he wrote the scenario for the game’s sidequests. Last but not least, on a more personal note, I’d just like to say that not every Xenosaga fan _hates_ Episode II. It had a lot of problems, but personally I don’t think it’s anywhere near as bad as TJ makes it out to be (especially story-wise; the combat system _was_ pretty messy), and I hope Mike and Casen are still able to go into it with an open mind and without too many preconceived notions derived from TJ’s rather damning assessment of it. But yes, as Mike said, it’s good to keep in mind that Episode 3 is incredible (in the eyes of many, anyway, myself included) if you’re underwhelmed while playing Episode 2, or even Episode 1, to be honest, since again I personally disagree with TJ’s appraisal of it. It’s basically a 40 hour prologue and it very much feels that way. It’s very slow paced and barely gets anywhere story-wise (remember, it only covered 20% of the complete picture), consisting largely of setup, exposition, and worldbuilding, with very little in the way of payoff. Not to say I didn’t like it, but yeah, IMO episode 3 is very much what makes the whole trilogy truly worthwhile. It nailed everything from the art style to the combat system, and despite the messy development history of the series, it somehow still managed to conclude the story in a pretty satisfying manner and provided incredible payoff to all the build up from the first two episodes. Anyway, hope you guys enjoy the ride because I’m sure you’ll be on it for a few months at the very least, haha.
Yea, TJ really seemed nit picky about the highway scene and pacing of episode 2, which I didn't mind all that much imo. Granted, the way it was localized made the experience kinda cringy at points, but I still enjoyed episode 2 enough to want to complete everything to the point of burnout xD That being said, ep2 is worth going through to get to 3. I like 1 for music to this day, but going through the game again is something I would not want to do again. Not the worst, but it definitely felt like a prolonged prolgue to an epic that ended up being in a trilogy format. Despite the wasted potential in hindsight, I still love Xenosaga
@@Stefano.C Yep, I went and checked after watching this video, and the highway scene in Episode II was literally 2 and a half minutes, not "5 or 10" like TJ claimed. Not that the game overall doesn't have pacing issues; it absolutely does, but just like in Episode 1, those didn't _ruin_ the game IMO. I'd actually put Episodes 1 and 2 on a relatively close level, personally. They're both somewhat flawed and dated, but still worth it for the overall story. And while the writing may have been less subtle and more heavy-handed in Episode 2 after Soraya Saga was removed from the project, the story still had many moments that were more powerful and moving than most of Episode 1's relatively dry 40 hour prologue of a story. Of course, that's just my opinion, but I felt like sharing it here because I think it's important to counter the notion that Episode 2 is universally reviled by everyone. And yeah, I getcha. These days when I want to reexperience Xenosaga, I don't really have the patience to replay Episodes 1 and 2 again anymore, so what I usually do is simply rewatch the cutscenes for those two, and then replay Episode 3, which I can always come back to and have a blast with because the gameplay is so damn smooth and polished, and the combat is like a more complex and engaging version of FFX's already excellent battle system.
oh dude I just finished xenogears a few months ago in prep for xenoblade 3 and binge watched your entire series on xenogears and that’s how i discovered your channel. now that i’m done with xenoblade 3 i’ve been meaning to play saga and this gives me BIG reasons to play it asap. Very excited you guys are continuing the xeno series.
Played this game in high school. This game blew my mind. Also lots of good laughs from the English voice acting. But still even beyond that I loved episodes 1 & 2.
Game engines help speed up some aspects of development, but you can never, ever just drop in your graphics and run it. Not in 2002, not in 2022. Also, you don't have to stop gameplay development while the graphics are being finished. You're always working on graybox material. With that in mind, making your own engine does add a lot of work.
This video came out at just the right time! I had played Xenosaga Episode 1 way back when it first came out, but I never did manage to get around to playing the other two episodes. But in the past couple months I finally decided to play through the trilogy and I'm currently about half way through Episode 3 now. Such a great set of games and I'm loving these podcasts!
It is kind of soothing to go over the history of Takahashi/Tanaka/Monolith again after playing Xenoblade 3. No spoilers by any means, but it seems like the guy is able to finally put out something that he intends in the way he wants without being too compromised with this new series. He has achieved a medium point between telling a story in a expanding universe while each one remains "it's own thing", so he doesn't get tired of doing always the same and comercially, its success does not rely on playing whatever iterances of the saga came before. Each Xenoblade, althought thematically connected, is completely different in tone, what it tries to achieve and how it does it. And I bring this up because Xenoblade 3 specifically deals with the themes of previous failure and "what happened before, however it happened, has paved the way for us today and its valuable even if it ends". And it is difficult to not think of it as a sort of "meta" aspect in its narrative. With that said, I don't even know if you we'll read this but your Xenogears series was many times one of the highest points each week in a year of ups and downs, so I'm really happy and eager to follow you on this journey again.
I'm glad you guys are covering Xenosaga! It's going to be a fun one with both of you playing it for the first time. The problem with Xenosaga is that it was pitched as a rival to Final Fantasy. Even though episode 1 was successful, it wasn't nearly as successful as they wanted it to be. Then they wanted to appeal to a wider audience with episode 2 which was a huge misstep. I don't blame Takahashi's ambition. They should have stuck with quality over mass appeal. The two rarely, if ever, can go together. I think it's the biggest tragedy in gaming that we didn't get the remaining 2 story arcs of Xenosaga. It's great that Monolith Soft finally found success with Xenoblade but it just doesn't compare.
If I remember correctly from the relevant Iwata Asks, Takahashi and Tanaka hired Yuichiro Takeda and workshopped the Xenoblade plot with them, but they were still intimately involved in the writing. As for the game design and scene direction, I've never seen anything that says who did what on that.
I just want to add a few things about Xenoblade : Tanaka/Saga was not involved in the development of the Xenoblade games outside of the guest design she did for 2, as she confirmed herself on her Twitter account. Her last contribution as a scenario writer for Monolith (or any video game for that matter) was on Soma Bringer for the DS, which is too bad because she's one of the best in the industry… Takahashi is very much the "main" or “senior” director for the Xenoblade games (think Sakaguchi with FFVI or Kitase with FFX), with Koh Kojima, Genki Yokota and Yasunori Mitsuda (since XB2) acting as his intermediary between the Monolith team, the Nintendo team, and the music team respectively. Kojima clarified their actual roles as “directors'' in a recent Xenoblade 3 interview. The cinematic direction is handled by Mamoru Ohta and Hiroshi Shirai for all 4 XB games, with other people and external studios helping depending on the game they’re working on. It’s interesting to see their style evolve from the rather basic and stiff XB1, to the crazy setpieces/subtle character acting of XB2, to what is essentially an entire movie for a specific part of XB3 I’d rather not spoil just so people can experience it themselves. For the story, Takahashi writes extremely detailed plots from which Takeda, who helped him write Xenosaga 1 + 2 for the DS/the anime adaptation for 1, and Kazuya Hyodo - another anime/Gundam writer who joined the team for X and stuck around for XB2/XB3 - write the actual dialogue you hear in the game, with corrections from Takahashi, who also handles the voice direction alongside Shigeru Chiba for the Japanese VA. For example, it was mostly Takeda’s ideas that were being developed until you get past Agniratha in Xenoblade 1, which is where the game’s story start to feature more and more “Takahashisms”. For X, he basically wrote a novel from which the two writers picked the elements that best suited the game, and Takahashi was the most involved in XB2’s story according to Takeda, though I guess with XB3 this statement could be considered outdated. We also know Ohta is at least partially involved as he’s also credited under the “scenario” section for XBX, 2, Torna and 3. It probably has to do with adjusting story details for the cutscenes to look/feel better or more natural, but that’s just speculation on my part. Most of this comes from various artbooks, some interviews and game credits btw. I’ll just link some of these here! Soraya Saga’s gameography: twitter.com/sorayasaga/status/1551050929507807232 Shirai, Ohta: www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,495670/ www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,413262/ Mitsuda’s role: www.vgmonline.net/yasunorimitsudainterview3/ Clarification on the lead staff’s role and the making of XB3 (spoiler free, 3 volumes): www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/ask-the-developer-vol-6-xenoblade-chronicles-3-part-1/ www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/ask-the-developer-vol-6-xenoblade-chronicles-3-part-2/ www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/ask-the-developer-vol-6-xenoblade-chronicles-3-part-3/ iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/wiiu/xenoblade-chronicles-x/0/1/ Some of Takahashi’s inspirations for XB2: nintendoeverything.com/xenoblade-chronicles-2-message-from-takahashi-started-while-xenoblade-chronicles-x-was-still-in-development/ The details concerning the writers’ respective roles on XB1 and 2 are found in the Monado Archives and the Salvenger’s gazette (or whatever it’s called) on the Switch News menu respectively.
*SPOILERS* *AHEAD* great episode! Even though I played Xenogears and loved it thoroughly, looking forward to Xenosaga 1 was dubious, particularly looking at early character renders. Keep in mind back in the day a JRPG in particular was a mystery in terms of information for fans in N.America, so who was directing or anything would have been a bonus if at all known. The game looked plasticy in the magazines. But XS1 exceeded all my expectations out of the gate with Mitsuda's score and Takahashi's brutal cut to 4000 years ahead, what three minutes in? I love the battle system (never use the mechs) and in terms of storytelling it hit all the marks for me Of course XS2 is a different thing; it retreads a lot of XS1 and shows a lot that XS3 *will* feature. Its battle system is *extremely* linear. But it does correct very well towards the end. The character models are an unfortunate downgrade, not stylistically but functionally. Animations are stilted, let's say due to a technological learning curve, but the game does suffer for it. A much better compromise is reached in XS3 and we're all better for it
That is so cool! I just finished Xenogears 3 Monts ago and had a blast with your Podcast und after finishing Xenoblade 3 I decided to play Xenosaga now and then I see this.
Awesome that you guys got to XenoSaga after it got sidelined from a couple Patreon polls, I'm super excited to go through the story this in depth after my playthrough a couple years ago. I'd reccomend checking out a channel called Miiks for some multi hour Xeno analysis as well. That guy also has a deep dive analysis that is favored by your guest this episode. Praise the Monolith!
LETS GOOOOO Xenogears podcast is now one of my favorite things on the internet. Was phenomenal to watch during my first playthrough. Now Xenosaga, as I’m playing Xenosaga, fr thank you guys.
Xenosaga (counting the trilogy as one collective game) is my favorite game of all time, I'm really looking forward to hearing what your thoughts on the series!
Gentlemen, this was a fantastic episode. TJ was a phenomenal guest, I was riveted. I'm also happy because normally, if I have any interest in playing a game, I'll have to skip media related to it until I play it myself first and form my own thoughts on it independent of any influence. I've reluctantly had to skip several of your podcast series because I either haven't played the game yet but plan to, or I can't play along with the book club format at that moment. But, in this case, I have basically no way to play these games. So I'll be experiencing this story as you present it, and I'm fine with that. Can't wait for episode 2!
@@claudemartin7785 I have tried everything to get it to work on my PS3 with PS3HEN every single other ps2 game I can get to work on it but this damm one. it boots up with a black screen of death to the point you gotta switch your PS3 off from the switch. I can get it to work on PC emulation but it is buggy as hell and the audio goes out of sync. it is a pain to get it to work I have a PAL PS2 and it never came out on PAL too so it is next to impossible to get a working copy of this game
@@adthomp 1st gen ps3, as ps1 and ps2 in it. Not an emulator.. So... Its like a ps2 with HDMI, works flawlessly. But the "upscaling" on a BIG 4k screen... Not the best lol Mcable might help me or CRT
Just a comment on 2001: A Space Odyssey - this is one of the rare occasions where I would say the movie is actually better than the book. Arthur C. Clarke liked to be much more concrete with his ideas, so that there is no ambiguity about anything. Absolutely everything that happens in 2001, as well as the other Space Odyssey books, is explained completely and is impossible to misunderstand. I'm sure many people enjoy that, and I'm sure as a scientist and engineer that was very important for Clarke to be able to do. But wow, is it boring. Kubrick's film gives me so much more to think about and consider and speculate about and discuss with others. It ambiguous and abstract, the meaning is obscure, it takes effort to understand and engage with. That's what I feel art should be more like. Not saying the books are bad per se, but they just have very little flavor, whereas the 2001 film not only has more but is a whole feast (it also happens to be my favorite movie).
Agree the movie in this adaptation case offers more thought provocation. The theory on Kubrick layering the meaning of the monolith being a cinema screen (same dimensions, format) etc is it's own rabbit hole to go down for example.
I'm in full agreement with your assessment. I feel the value and importance of the work grows as the audience engages and relates to it in all the myriad ways they have over the decades. If the film was not ambiguous and simply cut and dry style of story telling it would not have made the impression it has had on the imagination of the audience. Also worth noting that since Kubrick and Clarke built out the story together prior to the creation of either work was important to grounding the plot, so to speak, so that it is not simply ambiguous for its own sake.
Great episode guys! Jumping the gun quite the tad here but I see Resonant Arc's final episode on Xenoblade 3 in 2030. Analyzing the conclusion of the story of Perfect Works, and seizing our destiny!
Oh my god! I don't know why I didn't get a notification for this. Stupid youtube. I've been waiting for this since the podcast began. You guys kept bringing it up on voting and I didn't think people would ever vote it to be done. This is one of my favorite JRPG series of all time. I really hope you guys like it. I'm looking forward to your standard deep dive into Xenosaga! This should be good!
It's really interesting to contrast the careers of Tetsuya Takahashi and Hideo Kojima and what they have both managed to accomplish. I can only imagine the games we would be playing had Takahashi managed to follow the same route within Square. As it is, he still managed to make what I'd consider to be the best story of all time in Xenogears.
Oh man, this is going to be amazing! Thanks for making and uploading this! I really wish this trilogy was on PS5 and Switch physically. We need to "operation Rainfall" a remaster trilogy for this.
MIKE - your bit there on how what you're doing is supposed to go beyond youtube to inform devs about feedback to lead to better games is fantastic. Well done that man.
Man am I excited for this! Your Xenogears and FFX Analysis are just insanely good. Now with another of my favorites with Xenosaga. This will be so great.
Been waiting a long time for this one, this is one of the first ps2 jrpgs I ever played and it absolutely blew my mind as a teenager when I played it in 2003. It was like playing through a sci-fi space opera. I still have all three of my Xenosaga ps2 games, I hope a remaster comes one day.
I was so obsessed with these games as a teenager and remember endlessly speculating about the connections to the original franchise. Even when I was younger, I knew the series was very flawed, but the world and themes always hooked me anyway. The history lesson here was really eye-opening and definitely puts the wavering quality of these games into perspective. So glad you guys are finally covering Xenosaga and grats on a phenomenal opener 👍
yuki kajiura did really great work composing music for xenosaga games, most of her work for anime and you can feel the similarity between xenosaga II and tsubasa chronicls a lot :) listen to Xenosaga II Movie Scene Soundtrack and you will be shocked i think Xenosaga Analysis episodes are going to be my favorite after xenogeas :D
First reactions especially from people like you who know so much has been awesome. Casen in Xenogears, 5 seconds in calling out stuff extremely accurately was SO fetchin awesome and educational. I think it added a lot. I'm not worried at all. Actually makes me more excited.
I'm sure I've said this before in a previous xeno gears episode about saga and I'll say it again here. The ending of xenosaga 3, and to not give any spoilers away those of us that have beat 3 know what happened but starting over kinda makes their character references in saga to gears (where Jin was supposed to represent Citan and so on) kinda spot on. Starting over. A reincarnation of sorts. New characters in each game. It makes the ending of Xeno3 all the subtle and ties Gears and Saga together. I know XenoBlade is supposed to be more of the directors actual account for how he wanted the story to go so I hope there is some references made in xenoblade for the fans of the series. (I've not played XB yet).
Finally! Been waiting on this! I legit paused this vid and watched all of TJ's videos on the spot. EDIT: WOW, you helped with Operation Rainfall? DUDE, thank you so much. I was UTTERLY INVESTED at the time and hoping it would succeed. When it was announced that it would finally be brought over, the hype was off the charts. I must have reread and rewatched everything about the game that summer a hundred times. And when it did, OH MAN what an experience Xenoblade was.
That's an amazing story about the podcast theme - I always thought it sounded like Mitsuda-san, but had no idea that it actually *was* (at least the core of it) written by him! Go hian and Symfonikev =D
The only other project in gaming or media in general that I've seen that can match the ambition of Takahashi's vision is Naoki Yoshida and Natsuki Ishikawa's Final Fantasy 14, including all the expansions which have now spanned over a decade in the making. What Takahashi attempted to do with the xeno series, Yoshida and Ishikawa were able to accomplish in terms of scale, world building, character development, and absolute masterpieces of storytelling and cinematography. If there was one team that might be able to adapt Takahashi's vision and ambition for storytelling and world building for the modern era, it would be Yoshida, Ishikawa, and company. Anyway, great work as always, can listen to you guys talk about Takahashi and the xeno series all day!
This epsiode was peerrrrrfect dudes, absolute quality from start to end fantastic conversation giving tons of insight from the devs through interviews and facts that really influenced the development really great speaking TJ, I'm often wary of collaborations even between creators I like because its not guaranteed that there'd be a chemistry between them but this was smooth as butter to listen to. Tons of great insight and research on both sides, and especially with Mike and Casen having not played this game before. I would say having TJ on as much as possible for this game is a must! and THANK YOU for shouting out the viewer that rearranged that piece Mitsuda made, not only for enabling me to listen to the song, but they are extremely talented. I stopped the podast to listen to more of their songs and by god every single piece, original or cover, has been an absolute pleasure to listen to while I was working. Frankly, you should keep that link in the description for all your videos so that more people can find your intro/outro song and ferry more views and subs to symfonikev! This epsiode has really made me confident in subscribing to your subscribestar, keep up the good work!
WHAAAAAAAAT omg, I love that you guys are playing this!!! It’s going to be such a joy listening to you pick this apart. I love Xenogears and Xenosaga is just as near and dear to my heart!
I only just found this channels's Xenogears analysis (on a few eps in), and kept thinking "I so want a Xenosaga analysis like this" and it's HERE. *vibrates* Will be a while till I can get to this, but I am so glad that it is happening!
One of my favorite games EVER. That first time the Gnosis invaded the ship in the beginning, and then KOSMOS busts out the Gatling guns, it absolutely floored me.
It’ll be excited to see some first time reaction to stuff. It’s very rare to see discussion to Xenosaga in general and discuss what is actually going on. Looking forward to it!
My first love died when this series came out, so I always felt a certain connection to Shion- it must've been because I was so young, but this game ENVELOPED me and I am still obsessed with this story to this day
This is awesome. I've always wanted to play this game (Xenogears is in my top 5 RPGs) but after a few years on n off of trying to get a copy or ps2 emulator that works right, I kinda pushed it off. So Ive never played it but I'm still going to watch this. Keep up the good work 🙂
Sorry for the dips in audio quality on this episode! We're investing in some new equipment that should make future episodes both faster to edit and more consistent across the board! Thank you for supporting our channel and making this happen.
Check out TJ's channel here: ruclips.net/video/a9WYst0j9ac/видео.html&ab_channel=TJTheEmperor
Check out Symfonikev here: ruclips.net/video/puUjEp04Gg0/видео.html&ab_channel=symfonikev
All good! Hoping the best for you guys,still sending prayers to you since last week Mike.
@@forestcampbell8962Hell is REAL. Repent of your sins and turn to God. He loves you. Believe in his Son Jesus and you'll be saved. RUclips: 30 Days Touring HELL
I had no idea Takashashi had that much pull, the dude really could've been a cult leader if he wanted to. We're lucky he just wants to make games lol.
Timestamps:
1. Intro (0:00)
2. Introduction of the special guest (0:10)
3. TJ's motivation for creating an in-depth retrospective on the Xenosaga triology (1:05)
4. Availability, ports and fan translations (5:22)
5. Explaining the concept of the podcast (8:10)
6. The early career of Tetsuya Takahashi at Squaresoft (11:00)
7. Tetsuya Takahashi co-founds Monolith Soft (24:40)
8. What is Xenosaga and where does it fit in the larger Xenoverse? (32:34)
9. Minor spoiler for the ending of Xenogears (34:46)
10. cont. (35:24)
11. The importance of Kaori Tanaka (36:51)
12. The overambitious nature of Xenosaga and its impact on Takahashi and Tanaka (39:05)
13. Why did Monolith Soft restructure after Xenosaga Episode I? (56:25)
14. Key developers and staff on the Xenosaga triology (1:05:00)
15. Differences in directorial style between Xenosaga Episode I and II (1:15:49)
16. Takahashi returns for Xenosaga Episode III (1:22:08)
17. Monolith Soft finds a new publisher and Xenoblade Chronicles (1:31:53)
18. Xenosaga engine only completed six months before release (1:34:42)
19. Evolution of character faces throughout the Xenosaga triology (1:37:45)
20. The story of the podcast outro song (1:41:01)
21. Yasunori Mitsuda and the music of Xenosaga (1:44:57)
22. Where to play to for next two episodes (1:48:36)
23. Outro (1:51:16)
Hero of the people.
Watching Tetsuya Takahashi bludgeon the gaming world with Xeno games until the world finally loved them, has made me smile. Seeing Xenoblade Chronicles 3 being talked about online the same way FF games used to probably makes him smile.
This episode was absolutely phenomenal. TJTheEmperor is such a great addition to the team, and I think this has to be by far one of my favorite episodes on the podcast, especially with regard to how interesting the dev history of Xenosaga was overall. It really gave me a sense of Tetsuya Takahashi’s insatiable ambition as a creator, and gave credit to the extremely underrated Kaori Tanaka / Soraya Saga for her work in the Xenosaga franchise as well. I love the idea of having an additional guest who is familiar with the work in question to come on for games that both Mike and Casen haven’t played yet, and I hope to see TJTheEmperor come on more times if he is willing and able to. Kudos to everyone involved; you guys are seriously killing it with the quality of your content.
I have to respectfully disagree. I think he took so much away from the flow I'm used to in these pods. The incessant use of "like" and, God for I'd if you're watching it and see TJ grab his chin and look up and/or over to the side literally every time he talks, is really really off-putting. It really takes away from everything else.
Hell is REAL. Repent of your sins and turn to God. He loves you. Believe in his Son Jesus and you'll be saved. RUclips: 30 Days Touring HELL
@@thomasjackson2496Hell is REAL. Repent of your sins and turn to God. He loves you. Believe in his Son Jesus and you'll be saved. RUclips: 30 Days Touring HELL
Krelian confirms a multiverse at the end of Xenogears. Xeno games are all in that multiverse with a shared higher dimension/upper domain.
God bless you for jumping into this series after doing 84 episodes on Xenogears.
I don't catch every episode, but I want to say it's really classy (and smart) that you bring in other RUclipsrs that have done their own retrospectives on these games so they get the credit and hits they deserve.
I was not expecting this and am super excited.
I'll miss Fei and them but time to explore the second attempt by the Xeno team.
HOORAY SOMEONE IS FINALLY TALKING ABOUT THESE MASTERPIECES
Really really excited for this one. There just aren’t a whole lot of discussions about Xenosaga out there. Thanks as always for all your fantastic work.
HOLY CRAP ITS FINALLY HAPPENING. After all these years I’ve been a viewer, back when you were still Dark Pixel and had Casen’s brother on the team I have been hoping you’d cover this game someday. Thank you so much Mike!!!
I've been watching since Mike's original FF reviews. Im not exactly sure when he posted them initially, but i found them in early 2012, when i was bedridden sick with pneumonia...Before Casen, and his brother joined. Infact, his ffiii review convinced me finally pick it up and finish it!!
Takahashi has ambition of a universe creating author. The reality is that telling a story via a video game or movie takes a lot more resources and time unlike a book that uses the readers mind to process information. It takes a special kind of person to decide what content to keep or throw away when your passionately invested.
BTW, I can't wait to be reading Mike's future novel!
I just finished playing through Xenogears while watching your earlier podcast! It was such a fun experience and I am super excited to hear what you guys have to say about Xenosaga! I've beaten this already, so it'll be nice to kick back and enjoy this one each week. Keep up the great work guys, you're always the highlight of my day!
The Xenosaga series is one of the saddest examples of falling from grace that I've experienced in my 35 years of RPGs. Final Fantasy has gone from the top to the absolute bottom in recent years, but man, Xenosaga 1 was a perfect game almost, and they decided to throw out all the stuff that worked for the sequels. I'll never understand their thinking on that
@@jmarra07 Oh yeah I totally get that! Each one of these 3 games are pretty different from the last. Both in terms of graphics and gameplay. But part of me actually really likes how chaotic this series is, I've learned to appreciate certain aspects of each one as I got older. But I totally agree, Xenosaga 1 is pretty great even with some of its flaws (I wish I could speed up the gameplay XD).
@@jmarra07 it may be just because i played xenogears in 1998, but as excited as i was for the release of xenosaga, i found even the first one horribly disappointing. xenogears was so full of life and spirit, but xenosaga felt absolutely dead inside - not even the mitsuda ost (which really felt more overtly sci-fi) could save that game from feeling so cold and so bland to me. i've never tried episodes 2 or 3. (xenoblade is good stuff, thankfully.)
@@jmarra07 I really enjoyed Xenosaga I and thought they massively overreacted with changes they did to Xenosaga II. that said, Xenosaga III was the peak of the series for me so I thought they totally recovered in that game.
@@quiddity131 I'll have to give that a second shot one day
Takahashi and his team's work is a major source of creative inspiration for me. These guys are insane.
Yesssss! Xenosaga deserves more recognition despite its dips in quality on occasion. I'm really looking forward to hearing what y'all think about it.
You guys have never played these games? o_0. Well prepare for probably the most over the top ambitious project ever created at the time of its development. It was so FAR ahead of its time in terms of its presented storytelling visual medium.
I mean only be a couple of years. Then Trails came along
As the current Xenosaga speedrun Any% World Record holder... I AM SO HYPE FOR THIS.
Not Enel?
@@emilyantiqua Any%, not Any% Glitchless (which is Enel). Working on trying to figure out a better Gargoyle strat before I tackle Glitchless because I don't like having a more than 50% chance of run death through RNG that far into the run.
@@MissScarletTanager cool!
It's pretty wild that I JUST started playing xenosaga on a whim, completely unaware of this impending podcast.
After hearing about how ambitious the story for the xeno universe is I cant help but compare it to Yu Suzuki and his work on Shenmue. Having planned out several installments ahead of time and even having work intended for the first game end up on the 2nd.
I think it might be interesting topic for a deep dive for you guys. I mean the development history portion is right there from it originally being a virtua fighter rpg to Yu Suzukis crazy ideas for what his kind of roleplaying game would look like.
Really stoked for this series. I kinda get where he's coming from but still don't fully agree that video games are a bad medium for story telling, it's just a much bigger challenge to manage. It goes into the statemnet about the importance of maps vs story. In a book you only have to discribe the setting and whats happening, in manga or anime you draw it out and such, but in a game you have to make the environment interactive. How successful you are at making that entertaining is going to directly affect people's take on the game as a whole, but additionally its a huge creative/time constraint in an environment of strict deadlines. I Agree that he probably wouldn't stand by that statement now. I used to think that characters where the most important aspect in storywriting in such years ago but there have been a few things since then where I absolutely hate every character but was so drawn into the world and where the story could go that I kept watching (Sword Art Online probably the biggest example of this).
Every time I hear about Xenosaga's development I slowly but surely get heated, I remember coming acros Kos-Mos' design where it showed her with wings in like a gaming magazine or something similar when I was young and being immediately taken by her. Hell for little me that may have been my first crush or at least the first time I felt such infatuation with art. So yeah I get a little aggravated.
THEN you guys brought up FF15 and I REMEMBER the original trailers of Noctis less than an hour in I was already SEETHING. Thanks for the video guys appreciate it.
My favorite RPG of all time- i know it had its problems, but to me it will always be perfect.
The depth these characters had was awe inspiring and it truly made me feel something unlike other games had.
I think Takahashi and his wife saw themselves writing in a fashion of Frank Herbert with Dune or G.R.R. Martin with Song of Ice and Fire. Those story's were developed over decades as well! And Complicated as heck.
Soraya Saga seems to be working on personal manga projects now, trying to get something published, so I think she's focused on taking her writing and artistic talents, and putting it into something smaller and with a lot less business politics. She's still married to Takahashi personally, but it seems she doesn't care about big budget projects anymore. She wants smaller stuff. Its why she worked on Pied Piper and Soma Bringer.
That's a nice touch Casey... I will support that game "Takahashi's Ambition"
I've been listening to every Yasunori Mitsuda soundtrack looking for the outro for like two months. Thanks for solving this mystery
LET'S GO, GOOD LUCK BOYS, MY fav game series rn
OMG can't believe Mike Agreed to do this one. After Xenogears I thought it would be years before they dared tip their feet back into this series.
This is one of my favorite games of all time, and while I usually have trouble keeping up w/ Mike and Casen's schedule for these retrospectives (having a job eats up a lot of play time) I gonna make a concerted effort this time. So excited to hear their thoughts on the game (and maybe the series).
I love Xenosaga so much. Personally resonated with it so much more than Xenogears. Shion is one my favorite protagonists of all time.
This is really about to be a Xenosaga
Great to see someone covering this overlooked and underrated JRPG series. I’m a longtime fan of Xenosaga, so if it’s okay I’d just like to make a small clarification/correction (assuming I didn't misinterpret what you guys were saying): Episode 1 wasn’t 20% of the plan for that game itself; it was 20% of the complete story of the first arc in Takahashi’s epic, aka Shion’s arc, which was originally supposed to be told in Episodes 1+2, with the second arc being told in Eps 3+4 and the third and final arc in Eps 5+6. But ultimately we only got Shion’s arc, 1/3 of the complete picture, and it ended up requiring three episodes/games instead of just two as originally planned.
Regarding the restructure in the development team for the series after Episode 1, personally I’m not sure “Takashi wanted it to happen” would be the best way to describe it; I’d say “Takahashi went along with it” would be a more strictly accurate description, since there’s little available information on and insight into Takahashi’s thoughts and feelings during the whole thing.
However, it’s the exact opposite with his wife, Soraya Saga, who was very outspoken during the restructure, since she was removed from the project altogether despite being one of the co-authors of the story and the lead writer for Episode 1. And thanks to all the evidence we have from her firsthand account of the process, once again I personally don’t think it’s entirely accurate to call it a "debunked rumor" that there was meddling from higher-ups that prevented Takahashi and Saga from fulfilling their vision. Yes, there was no meddling on _Namco’s_ part, as Soraya Saga herself made clear with her statement on Namco being very supportive and allowing:
"The parent company has been kind enough to allocate reasonable budgets, development times, and promotional campaigns for the series. I've been grateful to them for their help."
But Soraya Saga kept a blog at the time and she made numerous posts on the changeover in the series and its staff after Episode 1, and she made it very clear that she was removed from the project against her wishes and was deeply hurt by that, going as far as to state that (she wrote this herself in English as she is fairly fluent in it):
“No offense to anyone or anything. But you would know how it depresses your feeling, if you lost an egg you've been hatching for so many years. I had been really looking forward to see a flight of our dreams.”
So while there was no meddling from Namco, one of the co-authors and lead writers was still kicked from the project against her wishes by the higher-ups at Monolith Soft itself (and yes, those included Takahashi himself, Saga's husband, which is indeed weird, but perhaps like you guys speculated he couldn't prevent that due to it being a group decision).
If you’re interested in reading more about this, I highly recommend checking out the article “The History of Xenosaga” on the Xenogears & Xenosaga Study Guide website: xenogearsxenosagastudyguide.blogspot.com/p/the-history-of-xenosaga.html
I was part of the forum community of this website back when it still had one and the creator of this Study Guide did an amazing job compiling information from virtually all the materials and interviews ever released about the games and their development. And honestly, the story of the Xenosaga series’ development is almost as interesting and dramatic as the story of the games themselves, so I do think it’s worth checking out.
Btw, another small correction, Norihiko Yonesaka, who became the lead writer for episodes II and III, did have a writing position in Episode 1: he wrote the scenario for the game’s sidequests.
Last but not least, on a more personal note, I’d just like to say that not every Xenosaga fan _hates_ Episode II. It had a lot of problems, but personally I don’t think it’s anywhere near as bad as TJ makes it out to be (especially story-wise; the combat system _was_ pretty messy), and I hope Mike and Casen are still able to go into it with an open mind and without too many preconceived notions derived from TJ’s rather damning assessment of it.
But yes, as Mike said, it’s good to keep in mind that Episode 3 is incredible (in the eyes of many, anyway, myself included) if you’re underwhelmed while playing Episode 2, or even Episode 1, to be honest, since again I personally disagree with TJ’s appraisal of it. It’s basically a 40 hour prologue and it very much feels that way. It’s very slow paced and barely gets anywhere story-wise (remember, it only covered 20% of the complete picture), consisting largely of setup, exposition, and worldbuilding, with very little in the way of payoff. Not to say I didn’t like it, but yeah, IMO episode 3 is very much what makes the whole trilogy truly worthwhile. It nailed everything from the art style to the combat system, and despite the messy development history of the series, it somehow still managed to conclude the story in a pretty satisfying manner and provided incredible payoff to all the build up from the first two episodes.
Anyway, hope you guys enjoy the ride because I’m sure you’ll be on it for a few months at the very least, haha.
Yea, TJ really seemed nit picky about the highway scene and pacing of episode 2, which I didn't mind all that much imo. Granted, the way it was localized made the experience kinda cringy at points, but I still enjoyed episode 2 enough to want to complete everything to the point of burnout xD
That being said, ep2 is worth going through to get to 3. I like 1 for music to this day, but going through the game again is something I would not want to do again. Not the worst, but it definitely felt like a prolonged prolgue to an epic that ended up being in a trilogy format. Despite the wasted potential in hindsight, I still love Xenosaga
@@Stefano.C Yep, I went and checked after watching this video, and the highway scene in Episode II was literally 2 and a half minutes, not "5 or 10" like TJ claimed. Not that the game overall doesn't have pacing issues; it absolutely does, but just like in Episode 1, those didn't _ruin_ the game IMO. I'd actually put Episodes 1 and 2 on a relatively close level, personally. They're both somewhat flawed and dated, but still worth it for the overall story. And while the writing may have been less subtle and more heavy-handed in Episode 2 after Soraya Saga was removed from the project, the story still had many moments that were more powerful and moving than most of Episode 1's relatively dry 40 hour prologue of a story. Of course, that's just my opinion, but I felt like sharing it here because I think it's important to counter the notion that Episode 2 is universally reviled by everyone.
And yeah, I getcha. These days when I want to reexperience Xenosaga, I don't really have the patience to replay Episodes 1 and 2 again anymore, so what I usually do is simply rewatch the cutscenes for those two, and then replay Episode 3, which I can always come back to and have a blast with because the gameplay is so damn smooth and polished, and the combat is like a more complex and engaging version of FFX's already excellent battle system.
Oh my god, I was so eager for you to cover this series as you did with xenogears. This is gonna be amazing
oh dude I just finished xenogears a few months ago in prep for xenoblade 3 and binge watched your entire series on xenogears and that’s how i discovered your channel. now that i’m done with xenoblade 3 i’ve been meaning to play saga and this gives me BIG reasons to play it asap. Very excited you guys are continuing the xeno series.
followup: just beat the game, will finally be watching these now.
Played this game in high school. This game blew my mind. Also lots of good laughs from the English voice acting. But still even beyond that I loved episodes 1 & 2.
Yes! Finally! Pretty sure if you guys plan to do all three that this podcast list is going to be about 100 episodes long.
I love your podcast guys, I've been following you since the FFXV days. Keep up the good work!
Yes Xenosaga! Thank you for talking about this great game! It's always overshadowed by blade and gears but I love Saga so much
Looks up Miiks for another excellent analysis of Xenosaga.
Game engines help speed up some aspects of development, but you can never, ever just drop in your graphics and run it. Not in 2002, not in 2022. Also, you don't have to stop gameplay development while the graphics are being finished. You're always working on graybox material. With that in mind, making your own engine does add a lot of work.
This video came out at just the right time! I had played Xenosaga Episode 1 way back when it first came out, but I never did manage to get around to playing the other two episodes. But in the past couple months I finally decided to play through the trilogy and I'm currently about half way through Episode 3 now. Such a great set of games and I'm loving these podcasts!
ついにゼノサーガやってくれた!!
ありがとうございますっ!!待ってました!!
Loved the bit about Mitsuda! I just assumed the song was a piece from xenogears that I didn’t remember. So funny!
No better feeling than going on RUclips and finding a video from you guys about some banger old rpg.
It is kind of soothing to go over the history of Takahashi/Tanaka/Monolith again after playing Xenoblade 3. No spoilers by any means, but it seems like the guy is able to finally put out something that he intends in the way he wants without being too compromised with this new series. He has achieved a medium point between telling a story in a expanding universe while each one remains "it's own thing", so he doesn't get tired of doing always the same and comercially, its success does not rely on playing whatever iterances of the saga came before. Each Xenoblade, althought thematically connected, is completely different in tone, what it tries to achieve and how it does it. And I bring this up because Xenoblade 3 specifically deals with the themes of previous failure and "what happened before, however it happened, has paved the way for us today and its valuable even if it ends". And it is difficult to not think of it as a sort of "meta" aspect in its narrative.
With that said, I don't even know if you we'll read this but your Xenogears series was many times one of the highest points each week in a year of ups and downs, so I'm really happy and eager to follow you on this journey again.
I'm glad you guys are covering Xenosaga! It's going to be a fun one with both of you playing it for the first time.
The problem with Xenosaga is that it was pitched as a rival to Final Fantasy. Even though episode 1 was successful, it wasn't nearly as successful as they wanted it to be. Then they wanted to appeal to a wider audience with episode 2 which was a huge misstep. I don't blame Takahashi's ambition. They should have stuck with quality over mass appeal. The two rarely, if ever, can go together.
I think it's the biggest tragedy in gaming that we didn't get the remaining 2 story arcs of Xenosaga. It's great that Monolith Soft finally found success with Xenoblade but it just doesn't compare.
If I remember correctly from the relevant Iwata Asks, Takahashi and Tanaka hired Yuichiro Takeda and workshopped the Xenoblade plot with them, but they were still intimately involved in the writing. As for the game design and scene direction, I've never seen anything that says who did what on that.
I just want to add a few things about Xenoblade :
Tanaka/Saga was not involved in the development of the Xenoblade games outside of the guest design she did for 2, as she confirmed herself on her Twitter account. Her last contribution as a scenario writer for Monolith (or any video game for that matter) was on Soma Bringer for the DS, which is too bad because she's one of the best in the industry…
Takahashi is very much the "main" or “senior” director for the Xenoblade games (think Sakaguchi with FFVI or Kitase with FFX), with Koh Kojima, Genki Yokota and Yasunori Mitsuda (since XB2) acting as his intermediary between the Monolith team, the Nintendo team, and the music team respectively. Kojima clarified their actual roles as “directors'' in a recent Xenoblade 3 interview.
The cinematic direction is handled by Mamoru Ohta and Hiroshi Shirai for all 4 XB games, with other people and external studios helping depending on the game they’re working on. It’s interesting to see their style evolve from the rather basic and stiff XB1, to the crazy setpieces/subtle character acting of XB2, to what is essentially an entire movie for a specific part of XB3 I’d rather not spoil just so people can experience it themselves.
For the story, Takahashi writes extremely detailed plots from which Takeda, who helped him write Xenosaga 1 + 2 for the DS/the anime adaptation for 1, and Kazuya Hyodo - another anime/Gundam writer who joined the team for X and stuck around for XB2/XB3 - write the actual dialogue you hear in the game, with corrections from Takahashi, who also handles the voice direction alongside Shigeru Chiba for the Japanese VA. For example, it was mostly Takeda’s ideas that were being developed until you get past Agniratha in Xenoblade 1, which is where the game’s story start to feature more and more “Takahashisms”. For X, he basically wrote a novel from which the two writers picked the elements that best suited the game, and Takahashi was the most involved in XB2’s story according to Takeda, though I guess with XB3 this statement could be considered outdated. We also know Ohta is at least partially involved as he’s also credited under the “scenario” section for XBX, 2, Torna and 3. It probably has to do with adjusting story details for the cutscenes to look/feel better or more natural, but that’s just speculation on my part.
Most of this comes from various artbooks, some interviews and game credits btw. I’ll just link some of these here!
Soraya Saga’s gameography: twitter.com/sorayasaga/status/1551050929507807232
Shirai, Ohta:
www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,495670/
www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,413262/
Mitsuda’s role:
www.vgmonline.net/yasunorimitsudainterview3/
Clarification on the lead staff’s role and the making of XB3 (spoiler free, 3 volumes):
www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/ask-the-developer-vol-6-xenoblade-chronicles-3-part-1/
www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/ask-the-developer-vol-6-xenoblade-chronicles-3-part-2/
www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/ask-the-developer-vol-6-xenoblade-chronicles-3-part-3/
iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/wiiu/xenoblade-chronicles-x/0/1/
Some of Takahashi’s inspirations for XB2:
nintendoeverything.com/xenoblade-chronicles-2-message-from-takahashi-started-while-xenoblade-chronicles-x-was-still-in-development/
The details concerning the writers’ respective roles on XB1 and 2 are found in the Monado Archives and the Salvenger’s gazette (or whatever it’s called) on the Switch News menu respectively.
*SPOILERS*
*AHEAD*
great episode! Even though I played Xenogears and loved it thoroughly, looking forward to Xenosaga 1 was dubious, particularly looking at early character renders. Keep in mind back in the day a JRPG in particular was a mystery in terms of information for fans in N.America, so who was directing or anything would have been a bonus if at all known. The game looked plasticy in the magazines. But XS1 exceeded all my expectations out of the gate with Mitsuda's score and Takahashi's brutal cut to 4000 years ahead, what three minutes in? I love the battle system (never use the mechs) and in terms of storytelling it hit all the marks for me
Of course XS2 is a different thing; it retreads a lot of XS1 and shows a lot that XS3 *will* feature. Its battle system is *extremely* linear. But it does correct very well towards the end. The character models are an unfortunate downgrade, not stylistically but functionally. Animations are stilted, let's say due to a technological learning curve, but the game does suffer for it. A much better compromise is reached in XS3 and we're all better for it
That is so cool! I just finished Xenogears 3 Monts ago and had a blast with your Podcast und after finishing Xenoblade 3 I decided to play Xenosaga now and then I see this.
Awesome that you guys got to XenoSaga after it got sidelined from a couple Patreon polls, I'm super excited to go through the story this in depth after my playthrough a couple years ago.
I'd reccomend checking out a channel called Miiks for some multi hour Xeno analysis as well. That guy also has a deep dive analysis that is favored by your guest this episode.
Praise the Monolith!
LETS GOOOOO Xenogears podcast is now one of my favorite things on the internet. Was phenomenal to watch during my first playthrough. Now Xenosaga, as I’m playing Xenosaga, fr thank you guys.
So excited you guys are doing Xenosaga!
I am blown away. After my beloved Xenogears comes Xenosaga. Legends!
I listened to the pod so just commenting for the Algorythm gods, great EP everyone, need to check those videos now
Can't wait for the rest of the series!
Your analysis videos are amazing.
That's something we really need.
The Xeno saga continues... Truly a momentous occasion.
Xenosaga (counting the trilogy as one collective game) is my favorite game of all time, I'm really looking forward to hearing what your thoughts on the series!
Gentlemen, this was a fantastic episode. TJ was a phenomenal guest, I was riveted. I'm also happy because normally, if I have any interest in playing a game, I'll have to skip media related to it until I play it myself first and form my own thoughts on it independent of any influence. I've reluctantly had to skip several of your podcast series because I either haven't played the game yet but plan to, or I can't play along with the book club format at that moment. But, in this case, I have basically no way to play these games. So I'll be experiencing this story as you present it, and I'm fine with that. Can't wait for episode 2!
I love the xenosaga trilogy. It’s a shame it can’t be played on modern consoles
Ps3 1st gen HDMI at least. So modern tv. But it looks real bad. Lol (i have them and it)
Me with xbsx2 and retro arch on my xbox
Man what I would do to replay those games on ps4😩
@@claudemartin7785 I have tried everything to get it to work on my PS3 with PS3HEN every single other ps2 game I can get to work on it but this damm one. it boots up with a black screen of death to the point you gotta switch your PS3 off from the switch. I can get it to work on PC emulation but it is buggy as hell and the audio goes out of sync. it is a pain to get it to work I have a PAL PS2 and it never came out on PAL too so it is next to impossible to get a working copy of this game
@@adthomp 1st gen ps3, as ps1 and ps2 in it. Not an emulator.. So... Its like a ps2 with HDMI, works flawlessly. But the "upscaling" on a BIG 4k screen... Not the best lol Mcable might help me or CRT
Just a comment on 2001: A Space Odyssey - this is one of the rare occasions where I would say the movie is actually better than the book. Arthur C. Clarke liked to be much more concrete with his ideas, so that there is no ambiguity about anything. Absolutely everything that happens in 2001, as well as the other Space Odyssey books, is explained completely and is impossible to misunderstand. I'm sure many people enjoy that, and I'm sure as a scientist and engineer that was very important for Clarke to be able to do.
But wow, is it boring.
Kubrick's film gives me so much more to think about and consider and speculate about and discuss with others. It ambiguous and abstract, the meaning is obscure, it takes effort to understand and engage with. That's what I feel art should be more like.
Not saying the books are bad per se, but they just have very little flavor, whereas the 2001 film not only has more but is a whole feast (it also happens to be my favorite movie).
Agree the movie in this adaptation case offers more thought provocation. The theory on Kubrick layering the meaning of the monolith being a cinema screen (same dimensions, format) etc is it's own rabbit hole to go down for example.
I'm in full agreement with your assessment. I feel the value and importance of the work grows as the audience engages and relates to it in all the myriad ways they have over the decades. If the film was not ambiguous and simply cut and dry style of story telling it would not have made the impression it has had on the imagination of the audience.
Also worth noting that since Kubrick and Clarke built out the story together prior to the creation of either work was important to grounding the plot, so to speak, so that it is not simply ambiguous for its own sake.
Great episode guys!
Jumping the gun quite the tad here but I see Resonant Arc's final episode on Xenoblade 3 in 2030.
Analyzing the conclusion of the story of Perfect Works, and seizing our destiny!
YES! Finally more Xeno. I’m shocked you guys were willing to sit down to do this after the insanity that was your Xenogears series.
I’m excited for this one, XenoSaga holds a lot of nostalgia for me.
Oh my god! I don't know why I didn't get a notification for this. Stupid youtube. I've been waiting for this since the podcast began. You guys kept bringing it up on voting and I didn't think people would ever vote it to be done. This is one of my favorite JRPG series of all time. I really hope you guys like it. I'm looking forward to your standard deep dive into Xenosaga! This should be good!
Welcome back to Xeno hell Mike and Casen
It's really interesting to contrast the careers of Tetsuya Takahashi and Hideo Kojima and what they have both managed to accomplish. I can only imagine the games we would be playing had Takahashi managed to follow the same route within Square. As it is, he still managed to make what I'd consider to be the best story of all time in Xenogears.
Oh man, this is going to be amazing! Thanks for making and uploading this! I really wish this trilogy was on PS5 and Switch physically. We need to "operation Rainfall" a remaster trilogy for this.
I only just started the series from Mid Oct, and finished it 2 weeks ago, I'm so happy to have found your channel while my memories are still fresh!
Can't wait for Xenoblade 3 analysis podcast!!!!
MIKE - your bit there on how what you're doing is supposed to go beyond youtube to inform devs about feedback to lead to better games is fantastic. Well done that man.
Man am I excited for this! Your Xenogears and FFX Analysis are just insanely good. Now with another of my favorites with Xenosaga. This will be so great.
Been waiting a long time for this one, this is one of the first ps2 jrpgs I ever played and it absolutely blew my mind as a teenager when I played it in 2003. It was like playing through a sci-fi space opera. I still have all three of my Xenosaga ps2 games, I hope a remaster comes one day.
I am SO down for this analytical podcast covering Xenosaga. Hopefully this lead to Xenoblade Chronicles being analyzed!
I was so obsessed with these games as a teenager and remember endlessly speculating about the connections to the original franchise. Even when I was younger, I knew the series was very flawed, but the world and themes always hooked me anyway. The history lesson here was really eye-opening and definitely puts the wavering quality of these games into perspective. So glad you guys are finally covering Xenosaga and grats on a phenomenal opener 👍
yuki kajiura did really great work composing music for xenosaga games, most of her work for anime and you can feel the similarity between xenosaga II and tsubasa chronicls a lot :) listen to Xenosaga II Movie Scene Soundtrack and you will be shocked
i think Xenosaga Analysis episodes are going to be my favorite after xenogeas :D
Considering how phenomenal your careful step-by-step dissection of Xenogears was, I am so stoked for this.
Whoa!!! AWESOME. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
I've been waiting for this since Xenogears. I can't wait!
IT'S TIME! I've been waiting on this one after Xenogears :)
First reactions especially from people like you who know so much has been awesome. Casen in Xenogears, 5 seconds in calling out stuff extremely accurately was SO fetchin awesome and educational. I think it added a lot. I'm not worried at all. Actually makes me more excited.
I'm sure I've said this before in a previous xeno gears episode about saga and I'll say it again here. The ending of xenosaga 3, and to not give any spoilers away those of us that have beat 3 know what happened but starting over kinda makes their character references in saga to gears (where Jin was supposed to represent Citan and so on) kinda spot on. Starting over. A reincarnation of sorts. New characters in each game. It makes the ending of Xeno3 all the subtle and ties Gears and Saga together. I know XenoBlade is supposed to be more of the directors actual account for how he wanted the story to go so I hope there is some references made in xenoblade for the fans of the series. (I've not played XB yet).
I’m here for the madness and 30+eps. 😂
Finally! Been waiting on this! I legit paused this vid and watched all of TJ's videos on the spot.
EDIT: WOW, you helped with Operation Rainfall? DUDE, thank you so much. I was UTTERLY INVESTED at the time and hoping it would succeed. When it was announced that it would finally be brought over, the hype was off the charts. I must have reread and rewatched everything about the game that summer a hundred times.
And when it did, OH MAN what an experience Xenoblade was.
That's an amazing story about the podcast theme - I always thought it sounded like Mitsuda-san, but had no idea that it actually *was* (at least the core of it) written by him! Go hian and Symfonikev =D
Just got done with your xenogears series, so hype to dive into Xenosaga!!!
Dang, I had a feeling I should play this series. Perfect time to start it seems like!
The only other project in gaming or media in general that I've seen that can match the ambition of Takahashi's vision is Naoki Yoshida and Natsuki Ishikawa's Final Fantasy 14, including all the expansions which have now spanned over a decade in the making. What Takahashi attempted to do with the xeno series, Yoshida and Ishikawa were able to accomplish in terms of scale, world building, character development, and absolute masterpieces of storytelling and cinematography. If there was one team that might be able to adapt Takahashi's vision and ambition for storytelling and world building for the modern era, it would be Yoshida, Ishikawa, and company.
Anyway, great work as always, can listen to you guys talk about Takahashi and the xeno series all day!
This epsiode was peerrrrrfect dudes, absolute quality from start to end
fantastic conversation giving tons of insight from the devs through interviews and facts that really influenced the development
really great speaking TJ, I'm often wary of collaborations even between creators I like because its not guaranteed that there'd be a chemistry between them but this was smooth as butter to listen to. Tons of great insight and research on both sides, and especially with Mike and Casen having not played this game before. I would say having TJ on as much as possible for this game is a must!
and THANK YOU for shouting out the viewer that rearranged that piece Mitsuda made, not only for enabling me to listen to the song, but they are extremely talented. I stopped the podast to listen to more of their songs and by god every single piece, original or cover, has been an absolute pleasure to listen to while I was working. Frankly, you should keep that link in the description for all your videos so that more people can find your intro/outro song and ferry more views and subs to symfonikev!
This epsiode has really made me confident in subscribing to your subscribestar, keep up the good work!
WHAAAAAAAAT omg, I love that you guys are playing this!!! It’s going to be such a joy listening to you pick this apart. I love Xenogears and Xenosaga is just as near and dear to my heart!
I only just found this channels's Xenogears analysis (on a few eps in), and kept thinking "I so want a Xenosaga analysis like this" and it's HERE. *vibrates* Will be a while till I can get to this, but I am so glad that it is happening!
Wow! Back into the Xeno universe! Looking forward to this and hopefully covering the Xenoblade series next.
Man i love this game so much and there is so little chatter about it on the internet. So glad you guys are covering this one.
Hell yeah. This game and its music was mind-blowing for me. Thanks guy!
One of my favorite games EVER. That first time the Gnosis invaded the ship in the beginning, and then KOSMOS busts out the Gatling guns, it absolutely floored me.
I would love to play the DS version, especially if it's moreso Takahashi's take on "I" and "II". It's a shame its never been fan translated.
It’ll be excited to see some first time reaction to stuff. It’s very rare to see discussion to Xenosaga in general and discuss what is actually going on. Looking forward to it!
Oh my god I can't contain the excitement for this series
My first love died when this series came out, so I always felt a certain connection to Shion- it must've been because I was so young, but this game ENVELOPED me and I am still obsessed with this story to this day
Been looking forward to this since your first Xenogears Episode!
Omg!!! Thank you for this analysis guys, I've been watching your content non stop!!! The Xeno games are my favorites :D
This is awesome. I've always wanted to play this game (Xenogears is in my top 5 RPGs) but after a few years on n off of trying to get a copy or ps2 emulator that works right, I kinda pushed it off. So Ive never played it but I'm still going to watch this. Keep up the good work 🙂