.357 Sig is my favorite cartridge. The Glock 32 is my favorite handgun and shoots like a laser. I have the full set of G31, G32, and G33 and all are an absolute blast to shoot. I find that the recoil of the .357 Sig is far more pleasant than .40S&W... I'd take my Glock 32 over my Glock 23 any day of the week.
I hope to join you in owning all 3. I currently own the 31and 33, I've never seen the 32 in a gun shop, but a new shop has opened up here where I live and they said that they can have me one here in 5 days so a deposit was dropped and Thursday of this week I hope I'll have my 32
@@jayfarley9293 I have a G35. It's definitely a nice shooter, but there is a part of me that really wants to get a conversion barrel for it to change it to .357 Sig as well... that would be epic
While 357Sig is my favorite, I practice with 40SW and I honestly believe there’s not much difference in felt recoil between the two. I have the P229, pure awesomeness!
Gosh! There are two calibers developed from the 10mm that are in use today--40S&W and .357Sig!! Kinda tells you how powerful the full 10mm really is. Good show.
First comment and Rodney, I knew you did your research when you validated that the .357 SIG was developed from the 10mm. This round is my EDC in a SIG P-229 and will stay my EDC for the foreseeable future. The round is outstanding and I trust it.
I couldn't get my hands on a Sig P229 during the purge in the past couple years, so I settled for a Glock 32. I really wanted a Sig P239. I'm happy with the Glock 32 though.
@@esoskratos26 June 2022, I bought a Glock 33. I've been looking for a year for a SIG P229, or H&K P2000sk in 357 SIG. The H&K is practically impossible to find, and can't even get a barrel in 357 any more. The P229 used either had the stupid DAK trigger, or starts used at $1200, which I think is pretty damn strong. So the subcompact Glock in 357 SIG, a stupid combination, so I had to have one, of course. Just over a box of ammo through it, and I don't find the recoil near as much as people make out. For an experienced shooter, put this on a G32 or G31 frame, shooters who aren't recoil-shy should be okay. I think manufacturers have just decided to narrow product lines and go all-in on 9mm. IMO, they are really missing a market niche and kind of pissing off a lot of shooters. For example, why are we getting 30 Super? It's an answer to a non-existent problem. If SIG, H& K, S&W, and Taurus would produce just a couple models in 357 SIG, and some da/sa models, I think you have a segment that would eventually rival 380 with a little promotion.
@@keithgraham9547 i hear ya and it doea suck the market for this round is limited.. I'm glad you got a g33 though. I bought an extended threaded barrel for my 32 off of lonewolf. My 32 with the exrended barrel I find shoots fairly flat. Good luck and enjoy your g33.
Historically, I've read that someone in the Sig C-suite noticed all the .357 Magnum revolvers traded in and wondered why they were popular. The .357 Mag supposedly was a one-shot stopper, including shooting through engine blocks and quickly stopping very large and strong people who were fortified with various medications. The .357 Mag replaced the .38 Special. From post-shooting medical records, physical damage was also caused by the shock-wave of the 1500 fps projectile. From this information, Sig tried to duplicate the .357 Mag, but keeping the 1500 fps requirement produces very uncomfortable recoil. I think the .41 Mag was developed to replace the .357 Mag as the .41 was more capable than the .357 Mag, but easier to handle than the .44 Mag. Then the semi-autos took over the market.
I recently got into shooting .357 SIG with a new Glock 31 purchase. So far I'm impressed with how it shoots. I definitely do not think the recoil is anything to be concerned with. Lots of blast but the recoil wasn't bad.
Back in 1999, I was involved in selecting a new cartridge and pistol for our city police department. We brought in almost 250 officers and had them shoot a qualification course with the .40. the .357, and the .45 ACP in a duty pistol. As a whole the group favored the .357 SIG. They thought it kicked less than the other two cartridges, but did noticed that it was much louder than the others. I concurred with this assessment. We issued .357 SIG's to about 700 officers with great results in actual shootings. I know it is probably a dead cartridge now, but I still love it. I have a P226 that is set up to shoot 9mm, .357 SIG, and .40. The one I love most is .357 SIG
Great overview of the round and what makes it unique. I've had a P229 and a P239 in .357 SIG. Both great guns. But man... the P239 is such a blast to shoot. Especially in the hotter loads. It is a little mini-howitzer. And incredibly accurate, as you said. Thanks for the video.
Well, I read through the comments and nobody seemed to tout a S&W M&P as a good home for the 357 SIG... It definitely is! I have conversion barrels for both the full-sized & compact models. The factory magazines are even marked with both calibers as well. I reload, and as such my cost for 357 SIG is almost identical to 9mm for range/practice rounds and often less than 40 S&W for SD ammo (!?!) because the equivalent heavier (as in 155-180gr) .40 bullets usually cost more than the typical 125gr .355s! A few grains of powder is a cheap way to gain all the additional performance of the 357 SIG. Cheers! P.S. The FireDragon 357 SIG barrel for my FN FNX was considerably more exper$ive than the ones for the M&Ps, but is really a work of art! If only CZ had a 357 SIG in their lineup!
Very informative! Thanks. . My experience with 357 Sig was my Glock 22 and changing out the barrel with a Storm Lake 357 Sig barrel. Right away I noticed LESS RECOIL from my Glock. I even had my small framed daughter shoot it at the range who is not very experienced and she was able to control it. 125 grain Sig Sauer. Winchester, Lawman and Fiocchi ammo.. All of them were easier to get back on target than when it was a .40. Many of my shooter friends totally agree with me. I can still easily find 357 Sig ammo and it is about the price of .380 acp here. Also, the Fiocchi FMJ ammo is pretty hot, yet very controllable PLUS it messes up level 3A kevlar pretty badly! 15 and 22 round OEM mags for the Glock make it very formidable.
I have a SP2022 chambered from the factory in 357sig and I love it. I also have the .40s&w conversion barrel for it. The recoil between the 2 calibers is negligible in that particular pistol. I used mine to qualify with the state as an armed guard a few years ago. Night qualifying was fun. Everybody else was using 9mm, and stopped shooting to watch the fireball that my pistol was throwing out. 357sig is still my favorite of all the calibers I own (.380, 9mm, 357magnum, .38spl, .40s&w, 10mm, 5.7, and .45acp). Just wish ammo was easier to find for it.
Awesome video! Very informative. I’ll be retired soon and then I’m allowed to carry whatever I want and my EDC will be in .357Sig. I bought a ton of that ammo in the pre-Covid days. At the moment I can only carry 9mm, .45, .38, .380. I have a Glock in .357Sig and I bought a KKM conversion barrel in .40 for the many reasons as outlined in this video. ie. Ammo availability, price, affordability, etc…. At least my .357Sig can quickly convert to .40, so it’s not like I bought a “worthless” gun.
I’ve been thinking hard about switching from 9 to .357 Sig for carry. It just is hard to find ammo around where I live. I can find 50 different 9mm ammunition choices, but 2 choices in the .357 Sig. I’m a huge .357 mag fan. I keep my .357 mag in my nightstand. I have a ton of trust for the magnum. It’s a proven fight stopper. I keep my AR and shotgun close, but a handgun is easier to move through the house with. A .357 magnum with 125 grain hollow points should stop an attack, from 2 legged and 4 legged predators quickly.
Rodney, I relly enjoyed your presentation, and agree with what you have said. I can provide some information on relative recoil, for what it is worth. My city police department was looking at a new duty caliber in 1998 and 1999. Our 9mm handguns had such ineffective stopping power that it became a morale issue, probably because we had chosen the wrong load and nobody wanted to admit it.. The administration wisely and uncharacteristically decided to let the officers choose our new caliber, with the limitation that the gun had to be a SIG (because they agreed to buy back our 9mm SIGs.), and we would only authorize one caliber. At the time, our State Police were going through the same process. Over time we bright in about 250 officers and had them shoot with three choices, the .45 ACP, the .40, and the .357 SIG. My money was on the .40, but the majority of our officers reported that the .357 SIG had less recoil than the .40. The .45 was disqualified quickly due to muzzle flip and the fact that the P220 and P227 did not fit our female officer's hands. The .357 SIG had less flip than the oher two calibers. So we adopted the SIG Pro, which had interchangeable back straps, which were rare at the time. Scores were higher than with the .40 as well. We used Speer Lawman 125 grain FMJ in .357 SIG and Speer Lawman 180 grain FMJ in .40 for the tests. The only complaint voiced about the SIG round was noise, which I believe some sense as recoil. I don't perceive the .357 SIG as having significant recoil over other large service calibers when fired in service size and weight sidearms, but it is incredibly loud. When fired in small, light guns I find it a bit obnoxious, but no worse than the .40. I shoot it today in a converted P226 and an full sized M&P and don't notice the recoil at all. I don't think it is at its best in a concealment size gun. Our State Police had a bigger budget, so they chose the SIG P229 in traditional DA/SA format as well, using the same 125 grain Gold Dot duty load we picked. What was funny was the sales pitch from SIG that they succumbed to. At the time, our State boys did not have patrol rifles except for specialized units, and many of them worked alone in rural areas. SIG reps brought in shot silhouette targets hey said were shot at 100 yards, and suggested that if the State Police bought handguns in .357 SIG, the Troopers would not need a rifle. This was laughable given that most cops have real difficulty shooting a pistol well at 25 yards, much less at 100. Nevertheless, I tracked shooting results in both departments for two years, and the .357 SIG was incredibly effective. Some of our guys called it the "Death Ray". I love the .357 SIG, but agree with another thing you said, and that is that it does not seem to have much of a future except for a cult following.. If it had only come to market at the same time or before the .40 (which is also a great patrol round) cops might still be using it. But what do I know? I said the same thing about the .41 Magnum years ago. People still shoot that and ammunition is still sold for it.
Thanks for the bit of history sir. Our local department switched from revolvers to 1911’s. They used those effectively for several years but eventually switched to S&W model 59’s which didn’t work out very well at all. A lot of malfunctions. Then, we found Glocks in 40S&W. Those were used successfully until recently when they switched to the 9mm Glocks. I wasn’t in on any autopsies but knew deputies that were and they said the Black Talons (now Ranger T’s) were extremely effective. I’m retired now so I’m not in on the results of any recent shootings with the 9mm but I always wished for the 357 Sig (my EDC now). The older deputies who only knew revolvers said the 357 mag was a one shot stop, unlike today where bad guys have to be hosed down to get them to stop. Thanks for the insights on the 357 Sig sir. Agh, the old days.
I have carried the P229 in 357 SIG since 1996. I have purchased a number of handguns and revolvers of the years including Glocks, H&K, and Sig P320s. Nevertheless, the 357 is what I always carry in town or out in the woods. I load Underwood 357 SIG ammo traveling at 1475 feet per second. Tremendous confidence in this bullet and firearm.
For me, 357 Sig actually kicks less than a 40SW, but it seems like it is worse because it has a lot more muzzle blast. Underwood and Liberty Defense make rounds that move at 2,100 fps and 2,300 fps respectively
@@Prepper319 lighter bullet more pressure. I can't tell a difference but to me 45acp with 230 grain and low pressure kicks more. Think it's something to do with that physics thing and mass.
It's exactly the same for me. Took me a long time behind the trigger and shooting 40 and 357 back to back. It is actually less recoil but damn is it loud
I own a Glock 22 and a .357 barrel to fit it. I have a Glock 33 and a .40 S&W barrel to fit it. I have a Sig P229 which was sold as a .357 Sig for which I also have a .40 S&W barrel. I find recoil from shooting .357 Sig with the P229 to be only incrementally stronger than shooting .40 from the same gun. The difference is a bit more in the two Glocks, mostly due to their much lower mass. I'm really glad I managed to snag a P229 in .357 Sig before Sig Sauer discontinued handguns in .357 Sig and .40 S&W.
I carried a Glock 33 for a year about 10 years ago, still would be now if ammo wasn't crazy expensive and hard to find. Loved the .357 Sig. Like a lot of folks, went to the 9mm.
I ditched my P229 for a 10mm a few years ago exactly for that reason of Sig not making guns chambered in that round. Now the 10mm is getting more popular.
Now this was a interesting video and I'd like to thank you for covering the history of this round. I have always thought of this as a interesting cartridge, but have always stayed away from this chambering, because of price and hard to find.
Thank you for the video. Good work. I don’t own pistol that shoots a 40 S&W caliber, but I do own a pistol that fires a 40 S&W cartridge. I qualified and carried the .357 Sig when I was in law enforcement. I was pleased with it.
The cartridge was originally intended to be an actual .357 caliber round. Sometime along the way they decided to go with .355 caliber projectile. Perhaps losing the chain will allow your cartridge history and descriptions to be more accurate.
I just picked up a Sig P229R in .40SW. I purchased the .357 SIG barrel from Sig Sauer. So Sig Sauer still provides legacy support for it. Sig Sauer also sells their 12 round P229 .357/.40 magazines. MecGar sells the 14 round P229 .357/.40 extended magazines. Sig Sauer sells a Caliber X-Change kit in .357 SIG for their current P320 full and compact series. So it shows that Sig Sauer still believes that there is life still in the .357 SIG cartridge. They have not abandoned it. Barsto sells P229 threaded barrels for .357 SIG. I just purchased one of those and will mate it to the Strike Industries Micro Comp Quad. There are a lot of police trade ins of .40 P229s floating out there. It won't take much to convert them to .357SIG. Just a barrel swap. I also have a S&W M&P .40 full size with an aftermarket .357 barrel. KKM makes .357 barrels I also have a Steyr S40-A1 compact with an aftermarket .357 barrels. Though both have been discontinued. Obviously Glock makes .357 pistols. I'd say that there is still Industry wide support for the .357SIG.
I enjoy your videos, because they're very informative. I can tell you that although there's not a propensity of guns made today in this caliber, the slides, barrels, and recoil assembly springs are readily available for the P320 on SIG Sauer's website.
As soon as I learned of the .357 SIG's intro and did some initial research, I snagged up a 229, ( already had one chambered in .40 S&W, ) in .357 SIG while I was stationed in Germany in the early/mid 90's. Firing both side by side, I loved the .357 SIG'! To me, it had less muzzle flip than the .40 and with .357 SIG's other ballistic and terminal performance advantages, it was a no-brainer for me - .357 SIG was the way to go. While I still carry that original 229 purchased in Germany, I primarily carry a Gen 4 G31 or G32. An AR platform PCC taking Glock mags would be a kick-ass little rifle to compliment everyone who carries a Glock pistol in this caliber.
I picked up .357 Sig conversion barrels for my G23 and M&P 40 for when we hit the mad max/SHTF days and you need to be able to shoot what ever you find.
Love my glock 32 and have shot the 33 and to me I dont think it has much recoil but i have gorilla hands and am a huge guy so the 500 s&w doesnt feel bad in recoil to me. But the 357 sig is an awesome little round and will never get rid of it
Thanks for putting this out. I carry this round too as my edc because of the numbers on target. To me the recoil feels snappy which I don't think is too bad; it almost seems faster to get back on target with the snappiness.
Bought a .357 Sig conversion barrel for my S&W M&P 40. It functions flawlessly, and there are no signs of excessive pressure on the brass, nor any degradation to the structural integrity of the pistol in general, or any its components specifically. I handload, so I couldn't care less if the manufacturers give it and its ammo the heave-ho. I am very pleased with mine as my EDC, and probably won't use it for .40 S&W ever again.
The recoil thing always makes me roll my eyes now that I see the resurgence of 10mm on the market. The 40 and 357 are similar recoil, just a slightly different impulse. The 357 is definitely less but the blast tricks you. That being said it's still less than the 10mm taking the industry by storm
Why Handgun do you own in 357sig? Have you tried a 24lbs recoil spring in it? I own a Glock31. with the stock recoil spring, I can't hold the handgun in my hands, but with the recoil spring it is totally manageable.
But when I read people saying 9mm is equal to or superior to 357 Sig… Let’s think about that for ourselves for just a moment, shall we? I get it that some people pick a side and feel the need to defend their choice, but not to the extent of regurgitating pure nonsense that they themselves were misinformed on. Some ammo manufacturers actually have loads that even surpasses the ballistics of traditional 357 magnum performance. Underwood's 357 SIG Gold Dot for example. Also because it’s a bottleneck cartridge it has the added benefit of feeding more reliably than other pistol rounds. It’s flat shooting and will punch through auto glass like it was butter. It’s literally a 9mm projectile “except” because it’s 225-300 fps faster it penetrates most barriers as well as 10mm yet doesn’t over penetrate flesh, which is welcomed to aid in avoiding collateral damage. It has a flatter trajectory that in turn makes it more accurate and potent at distance. Though the penetration is no greater than 9mm in flesh, the cavity damage is much more devastating making it more likely to stop a threat with less shots. Underwood has a 357 Sig 65g Xtreme Penetrator round that exceeds 2250+ fps out of just a 6” barrel. I don’t know of any other semiautomatic pistol caliber that has rounds capable of such velocities from a handgun. It goes straight through a 3A panel even. At those velocities normally temporary cavities tear. One of the most attractive benefits of owning a 357 Sig is the ability to convert the firearm to 40 S&W & 9mm with nothing more than a simple barrel swap. You also normally can do a 357 Sig or 9mm conversion if you own a 40 S&W firearm as well. That means you can train on whatever platform you’re most comfortable with and whatever ammo is the most affordable, and no it isn’t always 9mm. That means that you are less hindered by ammo shortages… and when you’re done training simply swap out the barrel and ammo back to 357SIG and you’re all set. Sadly on a native 9mm firearm you don’t have any option to do a conversion. I never understood what’s not to like about 357 SIG… well other than ammunition availability and cost being the only negatives I guess, but it is the better round. Keep in mind that when you compare 9mm +P or +P+ to try to achieve 357 Sig performance, 357 Sig is actually cheaper than 9mm. When I searched +P+ to get as close to 357 Sig performance as possible, it was more expensive than a standard 357 Sig JHP round. 9mm +P+ is still only 1300 fps in 124 grain. That’s 50 fps slower than the lowest end 125 grain Sig round at 1350 fps and we’re comparing +P+ 9mm ammo here. Yet the bare minimum 357 Sig performance isn’t even achievable and this is usually attempted in a platform that isn’t even recommended for +P+ or even +P at times. I say it’s best to swap to a 9mm conversion barrel when training and back to 357 Sig right before you’re all done to finish up with 357 to cut that expense down. In most cases the recoil of any superior round can be overcome with training. I actually have little to no recoil on one of my setups. It’s compensated. You’ll find that comps actually provide greater compensation with 357 Sig compared to 9mm because of the higher pressures. I do understand that some people are recoil sensitive and are more comfortable with 9mm or other lower recoiling rounds. I understand some just prefer the thought of higher capacity. I totally understand your decisions. But let’s not bash any superior round because you prematurely decided on a specific one. Naturally shot placement, especially with pistol calibers is key… but under pressure understandably, your shot placement could be lacking. With that in mind the welcomed advantages of 357 Sig could easily make the difference between life and death, shot placement aside. There’s nothing wrong with 9mm it’s awesome, but let’s be clear… it isn’t equal to 357 Sig and the few extra rounds it’s capable of holding in a magazine over 357 Sig definitely doesn’t make it the superior choice. In time I expect 357 Sig to make the comeback that 10mm has made in recent years… For myself these 357 Sig advantages make 9mm less desirable. How about for you?
with the .357 magnum revolver you can also match the belistics of the .40 - using a 158gr at 1200 fps matches the 155gr and 165gr . also using quality JHP you can get the same expension as the .40 . and off course you always load .38 special as well
Technically, the 357 Sig is a unique cartridge case. It’s more like a small pistol primer, shortened version of the 10mm but with increased strength in the web to handle its SAAMI maximum average pressure of 40,000 PSI. The 10mm cuts off at 37,500 and the 40 S&W ends at 35,000 PSI, same as the 9x19. Also, Federal partnered with Sig to develop this round in 1994 just four years after the introduction of the 40 with some big adopters such as Texas DPS and the Federal Air Marshals. Many agencies who switched to it reported excellent results. Its actual diameter is .355”, the same as the 9mm. But it’s relatively long case length means that flat point bullets must be used. Be forewarned if you intend to handload for it. As far as recoil goes, the FBI version of the 40 with a 180 grain bullet at 950-980 FPS doesn’t have the snap of a full power 165 grainer at 1150 FPS. Power factors for the 180 and 165 bullets are 176 and 190, respectively. The 125 grain 357 bullet at 1,400 FPS has a PF of 175. The uncorking pressure for the 357 is higher and that will offset those numbers somewhat. Additionally, the 125 grain 357 round goes through its firing sequence almost 30% faster than the 180 grain 40 making the recoil impulse feel more intense. Comparing full power to full power loads, the 40 has notably more perceived recoil than the 357 and some say it’s more vigorous than the 45 ACP from similar guns. The 357 Sig is an excellent cartridge that truly gives autopistol users the power of a 4” 357 Mag with nearly 3 times the capacity. Long may it live.
I was wanting to buy a Glock32 last year but the 357Sig ammo is expensive ASF! Each box of 50 rounds goes for $49.99! Before the pandemic I remember seeing the ammo at $19.99 I like the idea of 357 magnum performance in a smaller 4" barrel semi auto pistol.
In my humble opinion I find the 357 Sig out of a Glock 32 has slightly less recoil than a 40 S&W out of a Glock 23 using the same recoil spring in both. It’s enormous muzzle blast makes you think it’s barking more. I double ear protection when shooting it.
I've had 357 Sig starting with the Sig P250 DAO and then in the P320 and it is my favorite SD cartridge in a full or compact (4") size pistol. I only go down to 9mm Luger in smaller frame pistols unless it's for competition like IDPA where the cardboard doesn't care but I can understand why it's not for everyone. Almost every time I shoot 357 at an indoor range someone comes over and asks what the hell am I shooting because it is impressive with the muzzle blast and loudness.
For those who feel the recoil on this is too snappy on the glock 31 you can purchase a pure tungsten guide rod from glock store and that will make the felt recoil very manageable, though the weight is 5x the polymer guide rod
I have the exact same pistols in 9mm, 357 SIG, and 40 S&W. Subjective recoil depends heavily on the exact ammo you're using. A good example of this is 40 S&W, ammo is factory available in what amounts to IPSC "Minor" class loads, but also in "Major" class loadings. I was just in a local gun store yesterday who has several boxes of the lower powdered ammo that they're trying to blow out at under $20.00/box. 9mm has the same set of circumstances, there are 115 grain "promo" loadings that don't function in all pistols well at all. If you call the pistol manufacturer and complain about function, the first question asked is "what ammo are you using in it?" If you answer "115 gr ammo from Wal-Mart", they'll tell you to try 124 gr ammo and report back if it still has issues. 357 SIG has a different issue, with full power loads many loads will reduce the effective performance (expansion) of many manufacturers 9mm bullets. They either expand earlier and larger than 357 compatible designs, or they can simply come apart at 1450 fps. I have a lot of Hornady 357 SIG ammo for instance, and it's downloaded a bit from max, I assume this is done to keep their bullets in the range of their most effective performance. Ever notice that Speers 357 SIG 125 gr Gold Dot isn't the same design as their 124 grain 9mm? The 357 specific loading uses a bullet that appears to be derived from the 125 gr 357 Magnum bullet. There are likely other differences, but this stands out above everything. The 357 SIG Gold Dot load is also a lot hotter that Hornadys 124 gr XTP load. Hornadys 124 gr load no longer appears to be cataloged, but my box of 357 SIG Critical Duty 135 gr lists a muzzle velocity of 1225 fps, and the 147 gr load shows exactly the same muzzle velocity. My Underwood stash of 124 gr JHP shows 1475 fps. Loading data for 357 SIG appears to be watered down in Hornadys manual. There is nothing wrong with this at all, I only mention Hornady because I have the most information for them. If the 124 XTP doesn't perform satisfactorily for them at those velocities, then there is every reason to not recommend their use. Hornady is just being a responsible manufacturer.
I remember the first .357 SIG. SIG SAUER model P229 SPORT. Had a factory single chamber compensator. Federal was the first ammo we could get our hands on. Have not seen a copy of the P229 SPORT for many years now. Might like to find one for my pile 👍
They said the 10mm was going away and Glock was one of the main support with the G 20 and 29. That caliber started making its come back with small manufacturers and reloaders bringing back the full power loads. Like the 10mm, 357 Sig ammunition have been watered down. It was designed to match the 357 Magnum from a 4" barrel with a 125 gr bullet traveling at 1450 fps.
Excellent video. Use to carry a Glock 32 and loved it. Due to ammo availability and cost I had to switch to 9mm. I miss it and wish I would make a come back (I know, wishful thinking)
I owned a Sig p239 for years. Size wise pretty comparable to p365 XL though heavier. What a great gun that was, and the recoil was very manageable. Too bad Sig discontinued the 239.
@@garywood2137 I have a P365, original model. It's great, and recoil is very good even for a 9mm. I believe they discontinued the P239 in favor of the P365, as they do kind of fill the same role. Looking at comparison images, the P239 is about the same size as the P365XL, with the original P365 being a little smaller. I do believe with the way the P365 handles recoil of a 9mm, it would be good with .357 Sig.
Love my .357 Sig .. great round I really feel marketing killed the popularity of this cartridge.. had it been called the 9mm magnum.. I really think it would have done better..
Yeah they were trying to capitalize on the legend surrounding the 357 Magnum. I agree 9mm Magnum would've probably been a better name, especially since it fires the exact same 0.355" bullets as 9mm. I think Winchester might have already had a 9mm Magnum though.
I carry a P224 in 357 Sig every day. I agree it's popularity waning, but the ammo is still cheaper than 10mm. I'm trying 10mm, which has made a resurgence, but maybe the same will happen to the 357 Sig.
Just wanted your opinion on this I like the idea of this cartridge for woods carry ( you know carrying a 125 grain bullet instead of a 180 grain bullet to lighten the carry with out looseing fire power)what are your thoughts.
I currently purchased my first .40S&W Cal in the G23/5, yes generation 5. A larger frame and 3oz heavier and wider along with a 20lbs recoil spring, NOT 18lbs. I love this platform as I selected the 180gr weight as my practice and carry. Comparing it with my G19/4 with heavier per caliber ranging notice little diff in recoil, but a little more punch, snappy doesn’t play here. My followups at 25yds I’m keeping the 10-ring with little delay. That said, I’m wondering just it will fare with the .357SIG? Only a barrel change and possible the Magazine. As you stated, a powerful round.
👍I bought a Glock 20, 10mm yrs ago then a 357 sig barrel n 40cal barrel. They work fine. Three pistols for under a grand. I believe Sig or another ammo co will continue making it. My humble opinion.✌🇺🇸🌴
The 357 Sig uses a small pistol primers so it's parent case can not be 10mm. I bought a Sig 229 when it first came out and no ammo was available. No brass either. So I loaded some ammo by necking down some 40SW cases. It was a very poor substitute but it got me by for 6 months until proper brass became available. It's a fun cartridge to reload. The Hornady XTP bullets are a perfect choice. 147 Gold Dot bullets are outstanding with AA9 powder. In addition to the 229 I have conversion barrels for my Glock 22 and M&P 2.0 40. It's good fun but reloading is essential for ammunition to shoot. Berry's thick plated bullets help to reduce cost but use the thick plated bullets only for best results. Power Pistol, Longshot, AA9, and N350 are powders I use.
@@brianmount7036 there is some small primer brass out there, mostly Blazer. When the 357 Sig was developed ALL 10mm had large pistol primers. The 357 was actually developed by initially necking down .40 brass. It became immediately apparent that the neck was insufficient and the 357 Sig brass was made from a lengthened 40 case drawing. The 10mm case walls are too thick to simply neck down and trim 10mm brass. I’ve tried it and it doesn’t work.
SIG offers 357 P320 parts: slide, barrel, and magazine. I regularly interchange between 9mm and 40 on my P320. The slide and magazine for 40 is the same for 357. I'm just missing the barrel specific to 357. You are correct that SIG doesn't offer a handgun explicitly in 357, which says about SIG's market confidence of the caliber. The price of 357 ammo kind of deters me from it. But at the same time, less customers of the 357 means less dedicated manufacturing for it and the prices are higher because lack of economies of scale. It's kind of a death spiral.
It's not actually economies of scale. I just bought 357 SIG ammo slightly cheaper than 45acp. Manufacturers mark-up hollow points or some calibers just because they can. There is absolutely no cost difference, for example, to make 45acp 230 grain fmj vs. 230 grain HP. If there is, it's in hundredths of a cent difference. The price difference is because a. They can, and we pay it, and b. The industry has decided 9mm is The One Round To Rule Them All. If I win a big lottery, I'm going to start an ammo company without the gross differential between sku's.
I'm a fan of the 357sig over the 40cal. I have shot both. Of course I like the 9mm's and 45caliber. But I've had a few chances to shoot the 357sig and have had a Glock 22 years ago.
A 9mm isn't even close to 357 Sig. The hottest 9mm I've seen is the Underwood +P+ 90gr Extreme Defender, which most guns can't even shoot. It is listed as having 480 fpe. It would probably blow up a Glock 19. That same bullet in a 357 Sig is listed as having 578 fpe; almost a hundred more fpe. Underwood's 65gr version of that round in 357 Sig is listed to move at 2,100 fps with a muzzle energy of 637 fpe. I've actually crono'd the 65gr Extreme Defender out of my 3.5" barrelled Sig P224 at OVER 2,100fps. I suspect that round can reliably penetrate body armor, although I've never seen it tested, and although Underwood still lists them they haven't been available for quite a while. Liberty Defense makes a 357 Sig round they claim goes 2,300 fps. I haven't crono'd that one, but you can really feel it in your hand when you shoot it. That bullet isn't designed for deep penetration. The 357 Sig is the king when it comes to getting reliable expansion from hollow point bullets. I've never seen a 357 Sig test where the bullets didn't expand properly. Also, I've seen numerous tests where the penetration of the 357 Sig was superior to the 10mm with similar bullets.
I was scrolling the comments looking for what you said here. You are right, the 65 grain offering from underwood has not been in stock for a while, but I carry it myself. The only testing I have done with it is for reliability and shot placement. Running a smith m&p compact with storm lake barrel, night sights and crimson trace laser. If you check midwayusa, they have the the penetrator rounds in stock, just sucks they they are 2 dollars a round. I have never had any malfunctions with underwood ammo, and I have shot a lot of it to ensure reliability.
I fire this round from a P229 and a G32 and tbh I find 40 a bit less pleasant than the 357 as far as recoil goes. Unfortunately it can be hard to find “real” 357 SIG ammo. A lot of the mainstream brands have for some reason watered it down to around 1300 fps. This round can easily do 1450+ and in those loadings it truly lives up to its namesake.
The ballistics of 357 sig are almost identical to 7.62x25 tokarev. I also believe the sig got the “modularity” idea from T33 tokarev pistol. The entire trigger system is a one unit and is removable….interesting coincidences. Check it out.
To anyone that has a 357sig handgun, if it recoils too much, try a very heavy recoil spring. I have a Glock 31, and the stock 17lbs recoil spring is too weak. I have a 24lbs recoil spring, and it is very manageable. You can thank me later.
I'd like to hear what military, police and hitmen think about handguns and calibers, because they've actually killed or shot in real life. A lot of people always say, this or that is their favorite or the best, but never seen these weapons in action
Thanks for the video, man! I'm trying to convince my brother to buy a Glock in .357 SIG. Cuz ya know, then I could shoot it without having to actually deal with the headache of finding and buying ammo for it 🤣
.357 Sig ammo isn’t readily available. Lots of agencies that were big on it went to .40 and now back to 9mm. I have a Sig P229 in .357 with a grip of ammo and mags. I shoot it and at times leave out for as the 🏠 gun with a TLR-1HL. I love this caliber…..👍
Many government agency's use the 357 sig and its underrated. 40sw should have never become anything they should have had 10 and 9 if you could not handle 10. The .357 sig when loaded hot is a great round, I love bottle neck cartridges as they feed with more reliability. I wish they also made a 7.62 sig a 10mm cut down to 7.62 or 7.5mm. My hottest loads of 9mm sig won't go though 3A but 7.62x25 tokarev will. Hot reloads and surpluss. I wish they imported CZ75 style pistols chambered in 7.62x25 tokarev made in Eastern Europe to the states. When I was in upstate NY being 21 not that long ago with the 7 round mag carry limit my first handgun was a new made Zastava tokarev the mag could hold 8 and it had a real safety. I could keep one in the tube, I would not carry a cocked and locked TT33 with an added trash safety. I managed to put some tritium inserts in the sights and would all ways carry Bulgarian steel case surplus SMG ammo as my uncle had at least 200k rounds of the stuff as it used to be crazy cheap. It was a thin gun that did not print, heavy but easy to conceal, you could cock it one handed by using the sights and once sighted in (I made them tritium and did a home job to zero the sights) it was great to shoot, snappy and flat shooting with long range. I used thin wood grips, gave it a trigger job and it was crazy accurate. I was lucky I managed to get 2 spare mags with the 2 I had, when 7.62x25 got really expensive and I didn't want to shoot up my stash I got a 9mm barrel and it worked fine with cheap 9mm steel case. In semi auto pistols I only shoot 9mm, 10mm, .357 sig, 7.62 tok and 9mm Mak and .45acp for historical 1911s and to run with cans. I really want the CZ FK 7.5 but the gun and ammo are crazy pricy. The 9mm makarov is an underrated subcompact you can get at a good price and you can load it hot, it's quite a bit more powerful than .380 I don't own a single striker fired pistol
I bought a SW MP40 specifically so I could add a 357 sig barrel. I love the 357 Sig, but ammo dried up for the longest time and it's just too expensive to shoot regularly.
Over 16 years with this cartridge. Absolutely my favorite, 357sig .
.357 Sig is my favorite cartridge. The Glock 32 is my favorite handgun and shoots like a laser. I have the full set of G31, G32, and G33 and all are an absolute blast to shoot. I find that the recoil of the .357 Sig is far more pleasant than .40S&W... I'd take my Glock 32 over my Glock 23 any day of the week.
I hope to join you in owning all 3. I currently own the 31and 33, I've never seen the 32 in a gun shop, but a new shop has opened up here where I live and they said that they can have me one here in 5 days so a deposit was dropped and Thursday of this week I hope I'll have my 32
dont forget the G35. same size as a 1911. The longer barrel, with upgraded guide rod and springs makes the recoil like a 9mm.
@@jayfarley9293 I have a G35. It's definitely a nice shooter, but there is a part of me that really wants to get a conversion barrel for it to change it to .357 Sig as well... that would be epic
Replying with a g32 in my hip I second ur opinion , g32 rocks
While 357Sig is my favorite, I practice with 40SW and I honestly believe there’s not much difference in felt recoil between the two. I have the P229, pure awesomeness!
The 357 sig is closer to a 10mm tho surprisingly
Gosh! There are two calibers developed from the 10mm that are in use today--40S&W and .357Sig!! Kinda tells you how powerful the full 10mm really is. Good show.
Right
First comment and Rodney, I knew you did your research when you validated that the .357 SIG was developed from the 10mm. This round is my EDC in a SIG P-229 and will stay my EDC for the foreseeable future. The round is outstanding and I trust it.
I couldn't get my hands on a Sig P229 during the purge in the past couple years, so I settled for a Glock 32. I really wanted a Sig P239. I'm happy with the Glock 32 though.
Same here I bought this 229 when it first came out years ago still have it and love it
Agree I carry a p320 in 357 sig.
@@esoskratos26 June 2022, I bought a Glock 33. I've been looking for a year for a SIG P229, or H&K P2000sk in 357 SIG.
The H&K is practically impossible to find, and can't even get a barrel in 357 any more. The P229 used either had the stupid DAK trigger, or starts used at $1200, which I think is pretty damn strong.
So the subcompact Glock in 357 SIG, a stupid combination, so I had to have one, of course. Just over a box of ammo through it, and I don't find the recoil near as much as people make out.
For an experienced shooter, put this on a G32 or G31 frame, shooters who aren't recoil-shy should be okay.
I think manufacturers have just decided to narrow product lines and go all-in on 9mm. IMO, they are really missing a market niche and kind of pissing off a lot of shooters.
For example, why are we getting 30 Super? It's an answer to a non-existent problem. If SIG, H& K, S&W, and Taurus would produce just a couple models in 357 SIG, and some da/sa models, I think you have a segment that would eventually rival 380 with a little promotion.
@@keithgraham9547 i hear ya and it doea suck the market for this round is limited.. I'm glad you got a g33 though. I bought an extended threaded barrel for my 32 off of lonewolf. My 32 with the exrended barrel I find shoots fairly flat. Good luck and enjoy your g33.
My favourite EDC in a Glock 32. Magnum power with 13+1 rounds and as many Back up mags as I need but 40 recoil. A perfect practical carry caliber.
40 caliber Glock magazines work fine with the 357 22-round Factory magazine any of the 40 mags good to go
GLOCK 31 that uses GLOCK 32 magazines, the perfect CCW
Great vid! .357 sig is one of the most interesting cartridges ever!
My favorite cartridge... true powerhouse .. I carry the Underwood 115 grain JHP ... you talk about a rocket... hits with authority
357 sig is the only non magnum caliber I bet my life on!!! It’s potent with outstanding real world shooting results
10mm... hold my beer...
Historically, I've read that someone in the Sig C-suite noticed all the .357 Magnum revolvers traded in and wondered why they were popular.
The .357 Mag supposedly was a one-shot stopper, including shooting through engine blocks and quickly stopping very large and strong people who were fortified with various medications. The .357 Mag replaced the .38 Special. From post-shooting medical records, physical damage was also caused by the shock-wave of the 1500 fps projectile. From this information, Sig tried to duplicate the .357 Mag, but keeping the 1500 fps requirement produces very uncomfortable recoil. I think the .41 Mag was developed to replace the .357 Mag as the .41 was more capable than the .357 Mag, but easier to handle than the .44 Mag. Then the semi-autos took over the market.
I recently got into shooting .357 SIG with a new Glock 31 purchase. So far I'm impressed with how it shoots. I definitely do not think the recoil is anything to be concerned with. Lots of blast but the recoil wasn't bad.
Same here
GLOCK 31 that uses GLOCK 32 magazines, a cut grip for CCW
Rocking gun ranges since its advent. Good caliber.
Back in 1999, I was involved in selecting a new cartridge and pistol for our city police department. We brought in almost 250 officers and had them shoot a qualification course with the .40. the .357, and the .45 ACP in a duty pistol. As a whole the group favored the .357 SIG. They thought it kicked less than the other two cartridges, but did noticed that it was much louder than the others. I concurred with this assessment. We issued .357 SIG's to about 700 officers with great results in actual shootings. I know it is probably a dead cartridge now, but I still love it. I have a P226 that is set up to shoot 9mm, .357 SIG, and .40. The one I love most is .357 SIG
Great overview of the round and what makes it unique. I've had a P229 and a P239 in .357 SIG. Both great guns. But man... the P239 is such a blast to shoot. Especially in the hotter loads. It is a little mini-howitzer. And incredibly accurate, as you said. Thanks for the video.
Well, I read through the comments and nobody seemed to tout a S&W M&P as a good home for the 357 SIG... It definitely is! I have conversion barrels for both the full-sized & compact models. The factory magazines are even marked with both calibers as well. I reload, and as such my cost for 357 SIG is almost identical to 9mm for range/practice rounds and often less than 40 S&W for SD ammo (!?!) because the equivalent heavier (as in 155-180gr) .40 bullets usually cost more than the typical 125gr .355s! A few grains of powder is a cheap way to gain all the additional performance of the 357 SIG. Cheers! P.S. The FireDragon 357 SIG barrel for my FN FNX was considerably more exper$ive than the ones for the M&Ps, but is really a work of art! If only CZ had a 357 SIG in their lineup!
Very informative! Thanks. . My experience with 357 Sig was my Glock 22 and changing out the barrel with a Storm Lake 357 Sig barrel. Right away I noticed LESS RECOIL from my Glock. I even had my small framed daughter shoot it at the range who is not very experienced and she was able to control it. 125 grain Sig Sauer. Winchester, Lawman and Fiocchi ammo.. All of them were easier to get back on target than when it was a .40. Many of my shooter friends totally agree with me. I can still easily find 357 Sig ammo and it is about the price of .380 acp here. Also, the Fiocchi FMJ ammo is pretty hot, yet very controllable PLUS it messes up level 3A kevlar pretty badly! 15 and 22 round OEM mags for the Glock make it very formidable.
I have a SP2022 chambered from the factory in 357sig and I love it. I also have the .40s&w conversion barrel for it. The recoil between the 2 calibers is negligible in that particular pistol. I used mine to qualify with the state as an armed guard a few years ago. Night qualifying was fun. Everybody else was using 9mm, and stopped shooting to watch the fireball that my pistol was throwing out. 357sig is still my favorite of all the calibers I own (.380, 9mm, 357magnum, .38spl, .40s&w, 10mm, 5.7, and .45acp). Just wish ammo was easier to find for it.
Awesome video! Very informative. I’ll be retired soon and then I’m allowed to carry whatever I want and my EDC will be in .357Sig. I bought a ton of that ammo in the pre-Covid days. At the moment I can only carry 9mm, .45, .38, .380. I have a Glock in .357Sig and I bought a KKM conversion barrel in .40 for the many reasons as outlined in this video. ie. Ammo availability, price, affordability, etc…. At least my .357Sig can quickly convert to .40, so it’s not like I bought a “worthless” gun.
I’ve been thinking hard about switching from 9 to .357 Sig for carry. It just is hard to find ammo around where I live. I can find 50 different 9mm ammunition choices, but 2 choices in the .357 Sig. I’m a huge .357 mag fan. I keep my .357 mag in my nightstand. I have a ton of trust for the magnum. It’s a proven fight stopper. I keep my AR and shotgun close, but a handgun is easier to move through the house with. A .357 magnum with 125 grain hollow points should stop an attack, from 2 legged and 4 legged predators quickly.
Rodney, I relly enjoyed your presentation, and agree with what you have said. I can provide some information on relative recoil, for what it is worth. My city police department was looking at a new duty caliber in 1998 and 1999. Our 9mm handguns had such ineffective stopping power that it became a morale issue, probably because we had chosen the wrong load and nobody wanted to admit it.. The administration wisely and uncharacteristically decided to let the officers choose our new caliber, with the limitation that the gun had to be a SIG (because they agreed to buy back our 9mm SIGs.), and we would only authorize one caliber. At the time, our State Police were going through the same process.
Over time we bright in about 250 officers and had them shoot with three choices, the .45 ACP, the .40, and the .357 SIG. My money was on the .40, but the majority of our officers reported that the .357 SIG had less recoil than the .40. The .45 was disqualified quickly due to muzzle flip and the fact that the P220 and P227 did not fit our female officer's hands. The .357 SIG had less flip than the oher two calibers. So we adopted the SIG Pro, which had interchangeable back straps, which were rare at the time. Scores were higher than with the .40 as well. We used Speer Lawman 125 grain FMJ in .357 SIG and Speer Lawman 180 grain FMJ in .40 for the tests. The only complaint voiced about the SIG round was noise, which I believe some sense as recoil. I don't perceive the .357 SIG as having significant recoil over other large service calibers when fired in service size and weight sidearms, but it is incredibly loud. When fired in small, light guns I find it a bit obnoxious, but no worse than the .40. I shoot it today in a converted P226 and an full sized M&P and don't notice the recoil at all. I don't think it is at its best in a concealment size gun.
Our State Police had a bigger budget, so they chose the SIG P229 in traditional DA/SA format as well, using the same 125 grain Gold Dot duty load we picked. What was funny was the sales pitch from SIG that they succumbed to. At the time, our State boys did not have patrol rifles except for specialized units, and many of them worked alone in rural areas. SIG reps brought in shot silhouette targets hey said were shot at 100 yards, and suggested that if the State Police bought handguns in .357 SIG, the Troopers would not need a rifle. This was laughable given that most cops have real difficulty shooting a pistol well at 25 yards, much less at 100. Nevertheless, I tracked shooting results in both departments for two years, and the .357 SIG was incredibly effective. Some of our guys called it the "Death Ray".
I love the .357 SIG, but agree with another thing you said, and that is that it does not seem to have much of a future except for a cult following.. If it had only come to market at the same time or before the .40 (which is also a great patrol round) cops might still be using it. But what do I know? I said the same thing about the .41 Magnum years ago. People still shoot that and ammunition is still sold for it.
Thanks for the bit of history sir. Our local department switched from revolvers to 1911’s. They used those effectively for several years but eventually switched to S&W model 59’s which didn’t work out very well at all. A lot of malfunctions. Then, we found Glocks in 40S&W. Those were used successfully until recently when they switched to the 9mm Glocks. I wasn’t in on any autopsies but knew deputies that were and they said the Black Talons (now Ranger T’s) were extremely effective. I’m retired now so I’m not in on the results of any recent shootings with the 9mm but I always wished for the 357 Sig (my EDC now). The older deputies who only knew revolvers said the 357 mag was a one shot stop, unlike today where bad guys have to be hosed down to get them to stop. Thanks for the insights on the 357 Sig sir. Agh, the old days.
I have carried the P229 in 357 SIG since 1996. I have purchased a number of handguns and revolvers of the years including Glocks, H&K, and Sig P320s. Nevertheless, the 357 is what I always carry in town or out in the woods. I load Underwood 357 SIG ammo traveling at 1475 feet per second. Tremendous confidence in this bullet and firearm.
For me, 357 Sig actually kicks less than a 40SW, but it seems like it is worse because it has a lot more muzzle blast. Underwood and Liberty Defense make rounds that move at 2,100 fps and 2,300 fps respectively
Try some Underwood extreme penetrator 😉
No way 😳
@@Prepper319
Just reduce the weight to around 68 grains and it's that speedy.
@@Prepper319 lighter bullet more pressure. I can't tell a difference but to me 45acp with 230 grain and low pressure kicks more. Think it's something to do with that physics thing and mass.
It's exactly the same for me. Took me a long time behind the trigger and shooting 40 and 357 back to back. It is actually less recoil but damn is it loud
I’m the guy who buys a specific gun then comes to RUclips to figure out why I needed it.
Love my 357 Sig P320
I own a Glock 22 and a .357 barrel to fit it. I have a Glock 33 and a .40 S&W barrel to fit it. I have a Sig P229 which was sold as a .357 Sig for which I also have a .40 S&W barrel. I find recoil from shooting .357 Sig with the P229 to be only incrementally stronger than shooting .40 from the same gun. The difference is a bit more in the two Glocks, mostly due to their much lower mass. I'm really glad I managed to snag a P229 in .357 Sig before Sig Sauer discontinued handguns in .357 Sig and .40 S&W.
I carried a Glock 33 for a year about 10 years ago, still would be now if ammo wasn't crazy expensive and hard to find. Loved the .357 Sig. Like a lot of folks, went to the 9mm.
Reload
I ditched my P229 for a 10mm a few years ago exactly for that reason of Sig not making guns chambered in that round. Now the 10mm is getting more popular.
Excellent video!! EXCELLENT!! Thank you!!
Now this was a interesting video and I'd like to thank you for covering the history of this round. I have always thought of this as a interesting cartridge, but have always stayed away from this chambering, because of price and hard to find.
I've been thinking about getting a .357 SIG barrel for my p229 but I might wait now. Thanks for the video.
Watch it again a month or two later. Very good breaking it down.
Thank you for the video. Good work. I don’t own pistol that shoots a 40 S&W caliber, but I do own a pistol that fires a 40 S&W cartridge. I qualified and carried the .357 Sig when I was in law enforcement. I was pleased with it.
Let me guess you own the mighty 10mm
The cartridge was originally intended to be an actual .357 caliber round. Sometime along the way they decided to go with .355 caliber projectile. Perhaps losing the chain will allow your cartridge history and descriptions to be more accurate.
I have the Sig P320 in .357 sig and I love it!
Very informative video. Great caliber.
I’ve started really liking your channel. You always pack a lot of information into a small time frame. Keep up the great content!
Thanks good wrapup
I just picked up a Sig P229R in .40SW. I purchased the .357 SIG barrel from Sig Sauer. So Sig Sauer still provides legacy support for it. Sig Sauer also sells their 12 round P229 .357/.40 magazines. MecGar sells the 14 round P229 .357/.40 extended magazines.
Sig Sauer sells a Caliber X-Change kit in .357 SIG for their current P320 full and compact series.
So it shows that Sig Sauer still believes that there is life still in the .357 SIG cartridge. They have not abandoned it.
Barsto sells P229 threaded barrels for .357 SIG. I just purchased one of those and will mate it to the Strike Industries Micro Comp Quad.
There are a lot of police trade ins of .40 P229s floating out there. It won't take much to convert them to .357SIG. Just a barrel swap.
I also have a S&W M&P .40 full size with an aftermarket .357 barrel. KKM makes .357 barrels
I also have a Steyr S40-A1 compact with an aftermarket .357 barrels. Though both have been discontinued.
Obviously Glock makes .357 pistols.
I'd say that there is still Industry wide support for the .357SIG.
As I were. I made a comment on another video of yours, lauding the 357 sig's energy and then saw this video.
I enjoy your videos, because they're very informative. I can tell you that although there's not a propensity of guns made today in this caliber, the slides, barrels, and recoil assembly springs are readily available for the P320 on SIG Sauer's website.
As soon as I learned of the .357 SIG's intro and did some initial research, I snagged up a 229, ( already had one chambered in .40 S&W, ) in .357 SIG while I was stationed in Germany in the early/mid 90's.
Firing both side by side, I loved the .357 SIG'! To me, it had less muzzle flip than the .40 and with .357 SIG's other ballistic and terminal performance advantages, it was a no-brainer for me - .357 SIG was the way to go.
While I still carry that original 229 purchased in Germany, I primarily carry a Gen 4 G31 or G32.
An AR platform PCC taking Glock mags would be a kick-ass little rifle to compliment everyone who carries a Glock pistol in this caliber.
I picked up .357 Sig conversion barrels for my G23 and M&P 40 for when we hit the mad max/SHTF days and you need to be able to shoot what ever you find.
Excellent work
Great video very informative and thanks for sharing!
Love my glock 32 and have shot the 33 and to me I dont think it has much recoil but i have gorilla hands and am a huge guy so the 500 s&w doesnt feel bad in recoil to me. But the 357 sig is an awesome little round and will never get rid of it
Thanks for putting this out. I carry this round too as my edc because of the numbers on target. To me the recoil feels snappy which I don't think is too bad; it almost seems faster to get back on target with the snappiness.
One thing I noticed in my SW MP with 357 Sig, is that it shoots a nice flash out the barrel.
Next, we can discuss the 22 TCM.
I have taken ran a mag through a Sig 229 40 cal and then put a 357 sig barrel in and ran a mag , they were different but not really.
Good video I like the round I’m getting started on reloading it
Bought a .357 Sig conversion barrel for my S&W M&P 40. It functions flawlessly, and there are no signs of excessive pressure on the brass, nor any degradation to the structural integrity of the pistol in general, or any its components specifically.
I handload, so I couldn't care less if the manufacturers give it and its ammo the heave-ho. I am very pleased with mine as my EDC, and probably won't use it for .40 S&W ever again.
The recoil thing always makes me roll my eyes now that I see the resurgence of 10mm on the market. The 40 and 357 are similar recoil, just a slightly different impulse. The 357 is definitely less but the blast tricks you. That being said it's still less than the 10mm taking the industry by storm
Why Handgun do you own in 357sig? Have you tried a 24lbs recoil spring in it? I own a Glock31. with the stock recoil spring, I can't hold the handgun in my hands, but with the recoil spring it is totally manageable.
I carry either a P229 Legion and or a Glock 32 as an EDC great round and awesome fire arms as well!
My favorite round!
I have a Glock 33, p229, an M&P 357 sig love ❤️ them! 27.00$ box of 50! Underwood ammo 1475 fps/ 604 FP. 125gr Jhp 21.99$
But when I read people saying 9mm is equal to or superior to 357 Sig… Let’s think about that for ourselves for just a moment, shall we? I get it that some people pick a side and feel the need to defend their choice, but not to the extent of regurgitating pure nonsense that they themselves were misinformed on.
Some ammo manufacturers actually have loads that even surpasses the ballistics of traditional 357 magnum performance. Underwood's 357 SIG Gold Dot for example. Also because it’s a bottleneck cartridge it has the added benefit of feeding more reliably than other pistol rounds. It’s flat shooting and will punch through auto glass like it was butter.
It’s literally a 9mm projectile “except” because it’s 225-300 fps faster it penetrates most barriers as well as 10mm yet doesn’t over penetrate flesh, which is welcomed to aid in avoiding collateral damage.
It has a flatter trajectory that in turn makes it more accurate and potent at distance. Though the penetration is no greater than 9mm in flesh, the cavity damage is much more devastating making it more likely to stop a threat with less shots.
Underwood has a 357 Sig 65g Xtreme Penetrator round that exceeds 2250+ fps out of just a 6” barrel. I don’t know of any other semiautomatic pistol caliber that has rounds capable of such velocities from a handgun. It goes straight through a 3A panel even. At those velocities normally temporary cavities tear.
One of the most attractive benefits of owning a 357 Sig is the ability to convert the firearm to 40 S&W & 9mm with nothing more than a simple barrel swap. You also normally can do a 357 Sig or 9mm conversion if you own a 40 S&W firearm as well. That means you can train on whatever platform you’re most comfortable with and whatever ammo is the most affordable, and no it isn’t always 9mm. That means that you are less hindered by ammo shortages… and when you’re done training simply swap out the barrel and ammo back to 357SIG and you’re all set. Sadly on a native 9mm firearm you don’t have any option to do a conversion.
I never understood what’s not to like about 357 SIG… well other than ammunition availability and cost being the only negatives I guess, but it is the better round.
Keep in mind that when you compare 9mm +P or +P+ to try to achieve 357 Sig performance, 357 Sig is actually cheaper than 9mm. When I searched +P+ to get as close to 357 Sig performance as possible, it was more expensive than a standard 357 Sig JHP round.
9mm +P+ is still only 1300 fps in 124 grain. That’s 50 fps slower than the lowest end 125 grain Sig round at 1350 fps and we’re comparing +P+ 9mm ammo here. Yet the bare minimum 357 Sig performance isn’t even achievable and this is usually attempted in a platform that isn’t even recommended for +P+ or even +P at times.
I say it’s best to swap to a 9mm conversion barrel when training and back to 357 Sig right before you’re all done to finish up with 357 to cut that expense down.
In most cases the recoil of any superior round can be overcome with training. I actually have little to no recoil on one of my setups. It’s compensated. You’ll find that comps actually provide greater compensation with 357 Sig compared to 9mm because of the higher pressures. I do understand that some people are recoil sensitive and are more comfortable with 9mm or other lower recoiling rounds. I understand some just prefer the thought of higher capacity. I totally understand your decisions. But let’s not bash any superior round because you prematurely decided on a specific one.
Naturally shot placement, especially with pistol calibers is key… but under pressure understandably, your shot placement could be lacking. With that in mind the welcomed advantages of 357 Sig could easily make the difference between life and death, shot placement aside.
There’s nothing wrong with 9mm it’s awesome, but let’s be clear… it isn’t equal to 357 Sig and the few extra rounds it’s capable of holding in a magazine over 357 Sig definitely doesn’t make it the superior choice. In time I expect 357 Sig to make the comeback that 10mm has made in recent years… For myself these 357 Sig advantages make 9mm less desirable. How about for you?
with the .357 magnum revolver you can also match the belistics of the .40 - using a 158gr at 1200 fps matches the 155gr and 165gr . also using quality JHP you can get the same expension as the .40 . and off course you always load .38 special as well
Did not know that Sig no longer produce 357 sig modles after my Glock 32 purchase I planned on getting q Sig 320 in the caliber
I'm looking at a p239 357 sig pistol, I'm wondering if you have any advice or knowledge of that one? thank you for your time.
Technically, the 357 Sig is a unique cartridge case. It’s more like a small pistol primer, shortened version of the 10mm but with increased strength in the web to handle its SAAMI maximum average pressure of 40,000 PSI. The 10mm cuts off at 37,500 and the 40 S&W ends at 35,000 PSI, same as the 9x19. Also, Federal partnered with Sig to develop this round in 1994 just four years after the introduction of the 40 with some big adopters such as Texas DPS and the Federal Air Marshals. Many agencies who switched to it reported excellent results. Its actual diameter is .355”, the same as the 9mm. But it’s relatively long case length means that flat point bullets must be used. Be forewarned if you intend to handload for it. As far as recoil goes, the FBI version of the 40 with a 180 grain bullet at 950-980 FPS doesn’t have the snap of a full power 165 grainer at 1150 FPS. Power factors for the 180 and 165 bullets are 176 and 190, respectively. The 125 grain 357 bullet at 1,400 FPS has a PF of 175. The uncorking pressure for the 357 is higher and that will offset those numbers somewhat. Additionally, the 125 grain 357 round goes through its firing sequence almost 30% faster than the 180 grain 40 making the recoil impulse feel more intense. Comparing full power to full power loads, the 40 has notably more perceived recoil than the 357 and some say it’s more vigorous than the 45 ACP from similar guns. The 357 Sig is an excellent cartridge that truly gives autopistol users the power of a 4” 357 Mag with nearly 3 times the capacity. Long may it live.
I was wanting to buy a Glock32 last year but the 357Sig ammo is expensive ASF! Each box of 50 rounds goes for $49.99! Before the pandemic I remember seeing the ammo at $19.99 I like the idea of 357 magnum performance in a smaller 4" barrel semi auto pistol.
357 Sig Gold Dot is running about $34 a box of 50. I picked up 500 rounds. 9mm gold dot is running $36 a box. So I'm ok with not shooting 9mm
In my humble opinion I find the 357 Sig out of a Glock 32 has slightly less recoil than a 40 S&W out of a Glock 23 using the same recoil spring in both. It’s enormous muzzle blast makes you think it’s barking more. I double ear protection when shooting it.
I've had 357 Sig starting with the Sig P250 DAO and then in the P320 and it is my favorite SD cartridge in a full or compact (4") size pistol. I only go down to 9mm Luger in smaller frame pistols unless it's for competition like IDPA where the cardboard doesn't care but I can understand why it's not for everyone. Almost every time I shoot 357 at an indoor range someone comes over and asks what the hell am I shooting because it is impressive with the muzzle blast and loudness.
Good information. I've had a .357sig barrel for my Glock 23. Never used it.
For those who feel the recoil on this is too snappy on the glock 31 you can purchase a pure tungsten guide rod from glock store and that will make the felt recoil very manageable, though the weight is 5x the polymer guide rod
I have the exact same pistols in 9mm, 357 SIG, and 40 S&W. Subjective recoil depends heavily on the exact ammo you're using. A good example of this is 40 S&W, ammo is factory available in what amounts to IPSC "Minor" class loads, but also in "Major" class loadings. I was just in a local gun store yesterday who has several boxes of the lower powdered ammo that they're trying to blow out at under $20.00/box. 9mm has the same set of circumstances, there are 115 grain "promo" loadings that don't function in all pistols well at all. If you call the pistol manufacturer and complain about function, the first question asked is "what ammo are you using in it?" If you answer "115 gr ammo from Wal-Mart", they'll tell you to try 124 gr ammo and report back if it still has issues.
357 SIG has a different issue, with full power loads many loads will reduce the effective performance (expansion) of many manufacturers 9mm bullets. They either expand earlier and larger than 357 compatible designs, or they can simply come apart at 1450 fps. I have a lot of Hornady 357 SIG ammo for instance, and it's downloaded a bit from max, I assume this is done to keep their bullets in the range of their most effective performance. Ever notice that Speers 357 SIG 125 gr Gold Dot isn't the same design as their 124 grain 9mm? The 357 specific loading uses a bullet that appears to be derived from the 125 gr 357 Magnum bullet. There are likely other differences, but this stands out above everything. The 357 SIG Gold Dot load is also a lot hotter that Hornadys 124 gr XTP load. Hornadys 124 gr load no longer appears to be cataloged, but my box of 357 SIG Critical Duty 135 gr lists a muzzle velocity of 1225 fps, and the 147 gr load shows exactly the same muzzle velocity. My Underwood stash of 124 gr JHP shows 1475 fps. Loading data for 357 SIG appears to be watered down in Hornadys manual.
There is nothing wrong with this at all, I only mention Hornady because I have the most information for them. If the 124 XTP doesn't perform satisfactorily for them at those velocities, then there is every reason to not recommend their use. Hornady is just being a responsible manufacturer.
I remember the first .357 SIG. SIG SAUER model P229 SPORT. Had a factory single chamber compensator. Federal was the first ammo we could get our hands on. Have not seen a copy of the P229 SPORT for many years now. Might like to find one for my pile 👍
I have one. 😊
They said the 10mm was going away and Glock was one of the main support with the G 20 and 29. That caliber started making its come back with small manufacturers and reloaders bringing back the full power loads. Like the 10mm, 357 Sig ammunition have been watered down. It was designed to match the 357 Magnum from a 4" barrel with a 125 gr bullet traveling at 1450 fps.
Excellent video. Use to carry a Glock 32 and loved it. Due to ammo availability and cost I had to switch to 9mm. I miss it and wish I would make a come back (I know, wishful thinking)
Could you imagine a P365 in .357 Sig? I think I'd like it.
I owned a Sig p239 for years. Size wise pretty comparable to p365 XL though heavier. What a great gun that was, and the recoil was very manageable. Too bad Sig discontinued the 239.
@@garywood2137 I have a P365, original model. It's great, and recoil is very good even for a 9mm. I believe they discontinued the P239 in favor of the P365, as they do kind of fill the same role. Looking at comparison images, the P239 is about the same size as the P365XL, with the original P365 being a little smaller.
I do believe with the way the P365 handles recoil of a 9mm, it would be good with .357 Sig.
Love my .357 Sig .. great round I really feel marketing killed the popularity of this cartridge.. had it been called the 9mm magnum.. I really think it would have done better..
Agreed
Yeah they were trying to capitalize on the legend surrounding the 357 Magnum. I agree 9mm Magnum would've probably been a better name, especially since it fires the exact same 0.355" bullets as 9mm. I think Winchester might have already had a 9mm Magnum though.
I own both the glock model 20 and sig p226 with 40 barrel and 357 barrel
I carry a P224 in 357 Sig every day. I agree it's popularity waning, but the ammo is still cheaper than 10mm. I'm trying 10mm, which has made a resurgence, but maybe the same will happen to the 357 Sig.
Just wanted your opinion on this I like the idea of this cartridge for woods carry ( you know carrying a 125 grain bullet instead of a 180 grain bullet to lighten the carry with out looseing fire power)what are your thoughts.
I currently purchased my first .40S&W Cal in the G23/5, yes generation 5. A larger frame and 3oz heavier and wider along with a 20lbs recoil spring, NOT 18lbs. I love this platform as I selected the 180gr weight as my practice and carry. Comparing it with my G19/4 with heavier per caliber ranging notice little diff in recoil, but a little more punch, snappy doesn’t play here. My followups at 25yds I’m keeping the 10-ring with little delay. That said, I’m wondering just it will fare with the .357SIG? Only a barrel change and possible the Magazine. As you stated, a powerful round.
Same mags, they used to have .357/.40 marked on them originally.
reloading is very easy to produce excellent results with either .357 sig cases or .40 S&W cases. I have shot many hundreds of them.
357SIG my EDC for some time now!
👍I bought a Glock 20, 10mm yrs ago then a 357 sig barrel n 40cal barrel. They work fine. Three pistols for under a grand. I believe Sig or another ammo co will continue making it. My humble opinion.✌🇺🇸🌴
The 357 Sig uses a small pistol primers so it's parent case can not be 10mm. I bought a Sig 229 when it first came out and no ammo was available. No brass either. So I loaded some ammo by necking down some 40SW cases. It was a very poor substitute but it got me by for 6 months until proper brass became available. It's a fun cartridge to reload. The Hornady XTP bullets are a perfect choice. 147 Gold Dot bullets are outstanding with AA9 powder. In addition to the 229 I have conversion barrels for my Glock 22 and M&P 2.0 40. It's good fun but reloading is essential for ammunition to shoot. Berry's thick plated bullets help to reduce cost but use the thick plated bullets only for best results. Power Pistol, Longshot, AA9, and N350 are powders I use.
All of my 10mm brass is small primer. Using 40 brass you end up with a slightly shorter case and very little neck tension.
@@brianmount7036 there is some small primer brass out there, mostly Blazer. When the 357 Sig was developed ALL 10mm had large pistol primers. The 357 was actually developed by initially necking down .40 brass. It became immediately apparent that the neck was insufficient and the 357 Sig brass was made from a lengthened 40 case drawing. The 10mm case walls are too thick to simply neck down and trim 10mm brass. I’ve tried it and it doesn’t work.
10mm is the parent case for 40 and 357
SIG offers 357 P320 parts: slide, barrel, and magazine. I regularly interchange between 9mm and 40 on my P320. The slide and magazine for 40 is the same for 357. I'm just missing the barrel specific to 357.
You are correct that SIG doesn't offer a handgun explicitly in 357, which says about SIG's market confidence of the caliber.
The price of 357 ammo kind of deters me from it. But at the same time, less customers of the 357 means less dedicated manufacturing for it and the prices are higher because lack of economies of scale. It's kind of a death spiral.
It's not actually economies of scale. I just bought 357 SIG ammo slightly cheaper than 45acp.
Manufacturers mark-up hollow points or some calibers just because they can. There is absolutely no cost difference, for example, to make 45acp 230 grain fmj vs. 230 grain HP. If there is, it's in hundredths of a cent difference.
The price difference is because a. They can, and we pay it, and b. The industry has decided 9mm is The One Round To Rule Them All.
If I win a big lottery, I'm going to start an ammo company without the gross differential between sku's.
@@keithgraham9547golddot 9mm is 2c more a round than 357sig gd atm.
I'm a fan of the 357sig over the 40cal. I have shot both. Of course I like the 9mm's and 45caliber. But I've had a few chances to shoot the 357sig and have had a Glock 22 years ago.
A 9mm isn't even close to 357 Sig. The hottest 9mm I've seen is the Underwood +P+ 90gr Extreme Defender, which most guns can't even shoot. It is listed as having 480 fpe. It would probably blow up a Glock 19. That same bullet in a 357 Sig is listed as having 578 fpe; almost a hundred more fpe. Underwood's 65gr version of that round in 357 Sig is listed to move at 2,100 fps with a muzzle energy of 637 fpe. I've actually crono'd the 65gr Extreme Defender out of my 3.5" barrelled Sig P224 at OVER 2,100fps. I suspect that round can reliably penetrate body armor, although I've never seen it tested, and although Underwood still lists them they haven't been available for quite a while. Liberty Defense makes a 357 Sig round they claim goes 2,300 fps. I haven't crono'd that one, but you can really feel it in your hand when you shoot it. That bullet isn't designed for deep penetration. The 357 Sig is the king when it comes to getting reliable expansion from hollow point bullets. I've never seen a 357 Sig test where the bullets didn't expand properly. Also, I've seen numerous tests where the penetration of the 357 Sig was superior to the 10mm with similar bullets.
I was scrolling the comments looking for what you said here. You are right, the 65 grain offering from underwood has not been in stock for a while, but I carry it myself. The only testing I have done with it is for reliability and shot placement. Running a smith m&p compact with storm lake barrel, night sights and crimson trace laser. If you check midwayusa, they have the the penetrator rounds in stock, just sucks they they are 2 dollars a round. I have never had any malfunctions with underwood ammo, and I have shot a lot of it to ensure reliability.
Some state agencies, like highway patrol, use the .357sig, as well as the SS (secret service). It is a great round.
I fire this round from a P229 and a G32 and tbh I find 40 a bit less pleasant than the 357 as far as recoil goes.
Unfortunately it can be hard to find “real” 357 SIG ammo. A lot of the mainstream brands have for some reason watered it down to around 1300 fps. This round can easily do 1450+ and in those loadings it truly lives up to its namesake.
So,when I started loading it in 1994 it was .3555 diameter.did they change that over the years ???
357Sig is another caliber I like .... my father shots 357 Mag but really does not like the recoil of the 357 Sig , go figure .. nice video ...
I think the .357 sig uses the same projectile as a 9mm. With a diameter of .355.... But .357 sig sounds better than .355 sig.
That is correct & I agree that 357Sig sounds better than 355Sig.
The ballistics of 357 sig are almost identical to 7.62x25 tokarev. I also believe the sig got the “modularity” idea from T33 tokarev pistol. The entire trigger system is a one unit and is removable….interesting coincidences. Check it out.
My younger brother has a t33 they are kinda similar when It comes to ballistic performance
I have a SIG 1911 NIGHTMARE CARRY COMMANDER in .357 SIG and had a Glock 32 in .357 SIG. I favor the 1911 platform.
To anyone that has a 357sig handgun, if it recoils too much, try a very heavy recoil spring. I have a Glock 31, and the stock 17lbs recoil spring is too weak. I have a 24lbs recoil spring, and it is very manageable. You can thank me later.
I'd like to hear what military, police and hitmen think about handguns and calibers, because they've actually killed or shot in real life. A lot of people always say, this or that is their favorite or the best, but never seen these weapons in action
I Absolutely Love the Boy's Rifle Blueprint........are these available for the public
Love the caliber…not the cost! Over $65 for a box of 50 range ammo,ugh
Thanks for the video, man! I'm trying to convince my brother to buy a Glock in .357 SIG. Cuz ya know, then I could shoot it without having to actually deal with the headache of finding and buying ammo for it 🤣
I prefer the .40 honestly. This cartridge is weird and I know that the Secret Service use but I prefer or .40 or 9 mm. Rare caliber and performance.
Winchester also oroduced 9x23mm which was a great caliber but did not catch on
.357 Sig ammo isn’t readily available. Lots of agencies that were big on it went to .40 and now back to 9mm. I have a Sig P229 in .357 with a grip of ammo and mags. I shoot it and at times leave out for as the 🏠 gun with a TLR-1HL. I love this caliber…..👍
9x25 Dillon pre dated the 357Sig all of those are children of the 10 mm Auto
For those in the comments discussing recoil, chrono your ammo. Just like with 10mm auto, lots of .40S&W like loadings being sold, especially now.
Many government agency's use the 357 sig and its underrated. 40sw should have never become anything they should have had 10 and 9 if you could not handle 10.
The .357 sig when loaded hot is a great round, I love bottle neck cartridges as they feed with more reliability.
I wish they also made a 7.62 sig a 10mm cut down to 7.62 or 7.5mm.
My hottest loads of 9mm sig won't go though 3A but 7.62x25 tokarev will.
Hot reloads and surpluss.
I wish they imported CZ75 style pistols chambered in 7.62x25 tokarev made in Eastern Europe to the states.
When I was in upstate NY being 21 not that long ago with the 7 round mag carry limit my first handgun was a new made Zastava tokarev the mag could hold 8 and it had a real safety.
I could keep one in the tube, I would not carry a cocked and locked TT33 with an added trash safety.
I managed to put some tritium inserts in the sights and would all ways carry Bulgarian steel case surplus SMG ammo as my uncle had at least 200k rounds of the stuff as it used to be crazy cheap.
It was a thin gun that did not print, heavy but easy to conceal, you could cock it one handed by using the sights and once sighted in (I made them tritium and did a home job to zero the sights) it was great to shoot, snappy and flat shooting with long range.
I used thin wood grips, gave it a trigger job and it was crazy accurate.
I was lucky I managed to get 2 spare mags with the 2 I had, when 7.62x25 got really expensive and I didn't want to shoot up my stash I got a 9mm barrel and it worked fine with cheap 9mm steel case.
In semi auto pistols I only shoot 9mm, 10mm, .357 sig, 7.62 tok and 9mm Mak and .45acp for historical 1911s and to run with cans.
I really want the CZ FK 7.5 but the gun and ammo are crazy pricy.
The 9mm makarov is an underrated subcompact you can get at a good price and you can load it hot, it's quite a bit more powerful than .380
I don't own a single striker fired pistol
Dude you need to really give up caffeine and take a deep breath.
I bought a SW MP40 specifically so I could add a 357 sig barrel. I love the 357 Sig, but ammo dried up for the longest time and it's just too expensive to shoot regularly.
Not if you reload...