Fo doing all the axial float / clearance checks I use a DTI on a mag base. I also always do my clearance checks with everything dry, I've done this with everything lubed up and ended up with excessive clearance in both the cam and the crankshaft. Great video. Contemplating the con rods, they do look nice. Cheers Marty
Breaking in a new build can be scary. We were starting a TC engine for the first time in a car that had been "restored" at another shop. After running the engine for the cam break-in I went out on the road for the first time . I barely got around the block and the engine started knocking loudly. The shop owner didn't want to tell the customer that his newly rebuilt engine was hammering until we knew how the other shop had screwed up so he asked me to drop the pan and have a look around. On a TC, dropping the pan isn't a simple task, You have to drop the transmission also, and I'm glad I did. All the rods and crank were fine. What the other shop neglected to do was safety-wire the flywheel bolts and they had backed off causing the flywheel to knock. We had to replace the flywheel bolts, but got the engine and transmission and pan reinstalled and the car ran sweetly after that. I went belt and braces and put the safety wire and Loctite on the new bolts. I know that moment of fear when you start a rebuilt engine for the first time!
@michaelstoliker971 maybe not a topper, but BITD, after major rebuild on a MGA 1600 engine, i forgot to tighten the nuts on the rear main bearing...don't think THAT didn't make a racket and throw some oil on initial startup!!
I had a customer once try to drive to my shop in a new to him MGB to look it over and check out a noise. He made it out of his driveway, and it threw a rod shifting into second gear, because one of the rod nuts had never been torqued properly, and the nut came off (not sure how long it had been since it was apart though)
@@michaelstoliker971 he got lucky, he shifted at a real low RPM and it didn’t hurt the crank beyond having it turned to the next undersize, a replacement rod as part of the opted rebuild and he was back on the road
I recently reinstalled the sprockets , lining up the marks as per the Haynes manual. Haynes have wrongly described the info and it makes the timing wrong. Engine won't fire. I must obtain a Peter Burgess book.
Actually, there’s nothing wrong with the Haynes manual. It tells you to put the dots together, which isn’t always optimal, but is what the factory did. You probably have the distributor gear in incorrectly, it’s actually quite easy to do and I have done it several times myself. When that happens, it won’t fire.
A thicker gasket will compress a bit more than a thin one, but you’re still gonna see a big difference in the final compressed thickness between the two
are timing gears manufactured with out of spec keyways, or dots punched in the wrong places, often enough to warrant double checking with a protractor plate? and if so, i assume the only practical solution, at least on engines with gears that use keyways to position the gears on their shafts, is to buy new ones and check again? because if the amount of error doesn't serendipitously fall on a multiple of the granularity defined by the distance between teeth, a satisfactory positioning of the gears and chain with which one is working cannot be made. i may be all wrong here, but i thought that positioning cam and crank using a degree wheel was a process used on engines with no keyways in the cam or cam gear. and assume such cams and cranks would be some sort of high performance semi-custom ones. i'm going back quite some time here, but IIRC (and i may not) i simply slipped the timing chain around the cam and crank gears, while lining up the dots as best i could and sliding the whole assembly, chain, cam gear and crank gear, on at the same time.
When they broach the keyway in the cam gear, it probably only takes it to be off .005” or so ( just a quick guess) to be 1 degree, and since the cam rotates at half the speed of the crank, that’s 2 degrees of timing. Cams can also be ground a degree or so off, as well as the keyway, in the cam being a little off. Production tolerances can add up. Many engines have put together by just lining up the dots, and if it’s only a few degrees off, most people won’t actually notice it while driving. Find them a few degrees off, but not often more than four. They do make offset woodruff keys (in 1 degree increments) for the cam to adjust the timing. This is something that affects all engines, regardless of who makes them and should always be done, regardless of what you’re working on if you want the best performance you can get ( even if it’s stock spec). It’s really a product of production tolerances on aftermarket parts, with everything being made to a price, and some of them some of them are better than others.
@@mgbgtguy so which keyway typically gets this adjustment treatment, the crank or the cam? or will we find out in the next highly anticipated episode? ha anyway, thanks for the comprehensive response.
I figured this video would be long enough already, plus using the APT cam I figured I was less likely to actually need, an offset key to dial it in anyway (which I didn’t)
![Operation Bad Wolf [Ep 13] - How to Set your Cam Timing/Advance | Classic Mini](/img/1.gif)
Fo doing all the axial float / clearance checks I use a DTI on a mag base. I also always do my clearance checks with everything dry, I've done this with everything lubed up and ended up with excessive clearance in both the cam and the crankshaft. Great video. Contemplating the con rods, they do look nice. Cheers Marty
Would’ve liked to see cam bearing install.
That would have been done first while the block was bare. My machine shop puts those in for me when needed anyway
Breaking in a new build can be scary. We were starting a TC engine for the first time in a car that had been "restored" at another shop. After running the engine for the cam break-in I went out on the road for the first time . I barely got around the block and the engine started knocking loudly. The shop owner didn't want to tell the customer that his newly rebuilt engine was hammering until we knew how the other shop had screwed up so he asked me to drop the pan and have a look around. On a TC, dropping the pan isn't a simple task, You have to drop the transmission also, and I'm glad I did. All the rods and crank were fine. What the other shop neglected to do was safety-wire the flywheel bolts and they had backed off causing the flywheel to knock. We had to replace the flywheel bolts, but got the engine and transmission and pan reinstalled and the car ran sweetly after that. I went belt and braces and put the safety wire and Loctite on the new bolts. I know that moment of fear when you start a rebuilt engine for the first time!
@michaelstoliker971 maybe not a topper, but BITD, after major rebuild on a MGA 1600 engine, i forgot to tighten the nuts on the rear main bearing...don't think THAT didn't make a racket and throw some oil on initial startup!!
@@bladerunner6282 Yikes!
I had a customer once try to drive to my shop in a new to him MGB to look it over and check out a noise. He made it out of his driveway, and it threw a rod shifting into second gear, because one of the rod nuts had never been torqued properly, and the nut came off (not sure how long it had been since it was apart though)
@@mgbgtguy I hope it was repairable.
@@michaelstoliker971 he got lucky, he shifted at a real low RPM and it didn’t hurt the crank beyond having it turned to the next undersize, a replacement rod as part of the opted rebuild and he was back on the road
I recently reinstalled the sprockets , lining up the marks as per the Haynes manual.
Haynes have wrongly described the info and it makes the timing wrong.
Engine won't fire.
I must obtain a Peter Burgess book.
Actually, there’s nothing wrong with the Haynes manual. It tells you to put the dots together, which isn’t always optimal, but is what the factory did. You probably have the distributor gear in incorrectly, it’s actually quite easy to do and I have done it several times myself. When that happens, it won’t fire.
@@mgbgtguy Ah, but I've already altered that dizzy base and reinstalled that.
When those caps break on me, I get a piece of heavy plastic bag and screw the ring part of the broken cap over the plastic bag to seal the tube.
Hi again, what brand of gaskets do you mention at about 24 seconds? Please excuse my failing Scottish hearing.
@@kenmoffat617"Payen" brand gasket. Available from Moss and others
@@kenmoffat617 Ken, I believe he recommended Payen gaskets.
The thicker gasket compresses more so don’t worry about it!
A thicker gasket will compress a bit more than a thin one, but you’re still gonna see a big difference in the final compressed thickness between the two
So, are you going to make a video about degreeing the cam later?
I may, we do have a few more engines already on the list to build
@@mgbgtguyThanks
are timing gears manufactured with out of spec keyways, or dots punched in the wrong places, often enough to warrant double checking with a protractor plate? and if so, i assume the only practical solution, at least on engines with gears that use keyways to position the gears on their shafts, is to buy new ones and check again?
because if the amount of error doesn't serendipitously fall on a multiple of the granularity defined by the distance between teeth, a satisfactory positioning of the gears and chain with which one is working cannot be made.
i may be all wrong here, but i thought that positioning cam and crank using a degree wheel was a process used on engines with no keyways in the cam or cam gear. and assume such cams and cranks would be some sort of high performance semi-custom ones.
i'm going back quite some time here, but IIRC (and i may not) i simply slipped the timing chain around the cam and crank gears, while lining up the dots as best i could and sliding the whole assembly, chain, cam gear and crank gear, on at the same time.
When they broach the keyway in the cam gear, it probably only takes it to be off .005” or so ( just a quick guess) to be 1 degree, and since the cam rotates at half the speed of the crank, that’s 2 degrees of timing. Cams can also be ground a degree or so off, as well as the keyway, in the cam being a little off. Production tolerances can add up. Many engines have put together by just lining up the dots, and if it’s only a few degrees off, most people won’t actually notice it while driving. Find them a few degrees off, but not often more than four. They do make offset woodruff keys (in 1 degree increments) for the cam to adjust the timing.
This is something that affects all engines, regardless of who makes them and should always be done, regardless of what you’re working on if you want the best performance you can get
( even if it’s stock spec). It’s really a product of production tolerances on aftermarket parts, with everything being made to a price, and some of them some of them are better than others.
@@mgbgtguy so which keyway typically gets this adjustment treatment, the crank or the cam? or will we find out in the next highly anticipated episode? ha
anyway, thanks for the comprehensive response.
The cam gear would get the offset key
Can’t believe you didn’t actually show how you timed it in….
I figured this video would be long enough already, plus using the APT cam I figured I was less likely to actually need, an offset key to dial it in anyway (which I didn’t)