1950s Aikido sparring (Koichi Tohei analysis) 藤平光一
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 21 мар 2021
- This video discusses and analyses a sparring that occurred in the 1950s between an American man and O sensei's student Koichi Tohei who was also a judoka.
Support me on Patreon:
/ chadijudo
Josh Simon's website/shop
simonbjj.com/
#Judo #Aikido #KoichiTohei #BJJ #Sambo #Wrestling #GrandPrix #GrandSlam #Olympics #OlympicGames #MMA #UFC #Grappling #柔道 #講道館 #公益財団法人講道館 #嘉納治五郎 #高專柔道 #三角固 
Спорт
Good analysis. Great example of Aiki grappling! Aikido needs more of this.
True
If you want to keep your finesse skills sharp so that they conform to hard forces, don't practice hard techniques.
@@rinzler9171 I think there needs to be a balance between form and application. The difficulty is finding the middle ground.
It’s too bad there are only a couple of Shodokan Aikido sensei’s in the US. When I trained at the Hombu dojo in Osaka, it was a revelation. Pressure testing is absolutely necessary to see the strengths and weaknesses of your skill and the art itself.
It wasn’t that Tohei used any particular technique. It’s that he always moved for kuzushi
There are lot of prolific Aikidokas that have Judo background such as Koichi Tohei, Tomiki Kenji, Minuro Mochizuki, Morihiro Saito and Gozo Shioda.
Even O Sensei Ueshiba Morihei himself studied Judo with Kiyoichi Takagi at Tanabe.
This is the reason why most Ueshiba's first generation students or Pre-War Students used in "Hard Way Training" it's because due to their past Judo and Old School Jujitsu experiences prior joining Aikido.
Yep. I feel the same. I was previously thrown a bit by Saito Sensei amd he had such power but also control such that you'd land well on the mat. Aikido really was a complement to what was happening to martial arts at the time, but somehow it morphed into a soft art... It was never soft, it was simply about timing and position so that the aggressor couldn't mechanically resist with force. Anyway, I guess people make of it what they want.
That’s absolutely true, many experienced martial artists met Saito and were amazed by his technical efficiency, he was previously a kendoka, karateka, and judoka
From my little experience with training in Judo, I can say that grip fighting is no joke. Grip fighting is quite difficult but worth understanding. I was unaware of the video of Koichi sparring, but I find it quite informative.
100%
Grip fighting might be good on the mats or for an occasional annoying bully, but it is useless against an hysterical person or someone who is on drugs like PCP. They feel _NO_ pain, and are freakishly strong. Don't ask me how I know ...
This match was with an unranked non martial artist who was a news reporter, I believe. He was big, but untrained. Tohei was at least 9th dan by then and finally was able to finish him with a judo choke. I believe it was okuri eri jime. I was honored to meet Koichi Tohei in Japan in 1966 when he gave a demonstration at the Camp Zama Officers' Club. I loaned him my tatami from the Judo club where I had just become the instructor. He was a very gracious, humorous and powerful man. Regardless of his height, he was truly powerful. As an addendum, grip fighting in Judo was very rare at that time and in it's infancy, so the reporter was easily kept away. This does not detract from Tohei's skill, it just explains a little about the match. Not sure but the other man who was smiling and watching looks a lot like SSGT Johnson of the 294th Military Police Company at Camp Zama. Probably not though.
This is the most pretentious post I have read all day.
@@bartfart3847 how so?
@@eclipsewrecker the guy is bragging about how he knows everybody in the film personally. Grasping at straws to be somehow associated with these people. as if by association trying to be more than he is. OOOH LOOK AT ME !!! lol.
Texto ótimo 👏
@@bartfart3847 I guess it could be that, but what’s the difference between a brag and a anecdote?
You make me love judo even more with all that rich history thank you Chadi.
🙇🏻♂️
I actually have that Aikido video.😊
Rendezvous with Adventure on VHS
Great Video! You are correct about there being a lot of information to learn regarding grips. I have been training in MA for over 36 years and while Judo is a secondary art for me , I still learn details that improve my skills. Especially when I watch or work with Senior Judoka! Embrace the Journey💮
Agreed
Great video as always Chadi. We have grip fighting as well in Shuai Chiao (obviously less than Judo but still quite a bit), many tricks to this like you said. Really awesome footage of old Aikido.
It is a really interesting example of Aikido being used in against a non-compliant opponent! We don't see this enough! I've made a video about Aikido on my channel. Please check it out and let me know what you think 🙏🏾
@@martialartsaddict9966 I agree.
I was waiting for so long for you to comment this video. And I am not disappointed. Thank you @Chadi. I really think we should do that kind of randori in aikido to feel a more real situation since I come from judo. I learned some interesting things about the technics used by Toei.
Thank you Thibaut
Shodokan Aikido (Tomiki Aikido) has randori, pressure testing and competition.
Very interesting! Many thanks :)
thanks for uploading a video of koichi tohei there are better videos of his skills his story is also good where he used martial arts to help him build himself up from illness (not sure whether it was lung related )
Grip fighting is what makes Judoka have such vise like hands. This is exactly why if they utilize that dirty Yamashita Choke, you’ll feel like they’re tearing your trachea out lol awesome video brother, Chadi. Thank you 🙏
🙇🏻♂️
I feel like I didn't see Tohei do anything I haven't trained in Aikido class. Ki Aikido is obsessed with posture (both yours and your opponents) and I think, with Tohei's clumsy grip fighting, it's at least as likely that he was simply following Ki Aikido principles (rectifying posture, adjusting emotional state) and the end result of that was Kuzushi
The first throw he did, the Uki Otoshi, looked more like the Kokyu nage that's taught all over the place in Ki Aikido than it did Uki Otoshi. That's not to say the two throws aren't extremely similar. I just felt Tohei's kumikata looked more like Aikido grips than Judo and the throw he did is indeed frequently practiced in Ki Aikido
Believe in it as self defense or not, either way, the point of Aikido is to avoid grip fighting
The one throw he did, I call it "J Kokyu Nage" (my style, which is the only descendent style of Tohei's style, just calls everything "kokyu nage" unfortunately) -- Chadi referred to it as the one that was good for multiple attackers-- that throw in particular is much more like the Aikido idea -- don't get caught up grip fighting, just keep moving, and throw if you can. It's nice to see youtube footage of it being applied against a resisting attacker too -- not a skilled resisting attacker, but regardless.
It doesn't hurt to cross train Aikido with Judo (or with BJJ, like I do) or with other things. But Aikido's flavor of self defense is very specific, very panned in the modern MMA oriented world, but still widely misunderstood, especially by the people quickest to dismiss its value.
Where he just kind of moves around him and throws while avoiding the grip fighting phase is most like Aikido being applied the way it was meant to be applied. After that throw it's much easier to run away (you are already in motion) and it's much easier to deal with a second attacker from there (much easier, not necessarily easy).
Thanks for sharing
He had a very interesting fight with a tai chi master. It appears everyone was sparring back then.
Any videos of it?
Not really. It's also hard to really say because getting a video of something back then wasn't easy. You needy a good camera which probably cost a lot of money and you needed to know how to work those old cameras. It's until the 1990's when the handheld video camera was getting very affordable did more events, small and big, were being filmed by regular people.
@@martiallife4136 but in martial arts then sparring was much more common than it is now.
Any links??
@@Chadi I apologize Chadi, I meant to say he was going to have a fight with him but instead another very good fighter(and aikido master) by the name of Kazuo Chiba fought with him. It’s really interesting you should look into it.
Thanks so much for this video. I never liked ki aikido, but trained around 20 yrs in Aikido. When sparring with judoka it was very much like this video. A big advantage is that in Aikido we're not forced to be aggressive, so it's actually easier with a judoka because of this habit. Also makes it easier to body position to avoid being thrown. Unfortunately the necessity to 'do' something in judo sparring os what made ot difficult for me to commit to serious judo training later on.
Nice video. When a judoka pursues an understanding of biomechanics and kinesiology, they have an unparalleled advantage against most opponents.
I just watched the full video. What I had seen before was another video of a newsman and Tohei. The video shown was of the producer of the film and his buddy Herman. After seven days of intense aikido practice Herman challenges Tohei. Herman is finally defeated by a pressure point pin to the throat area. The big guy grinning and watching is the producer. Herman apparently had no other training, although they didn't really say that.
In the mid-late Sixties, I was taking Aikido in Melbourne, Florida. Tohei Sensei liked to fly down during the winter and go fishing. New York gets pretty cold that time of year. After the belt tests, we would all get on the mats and just do some randori for the audience. When Tohei put his arm out for me to grab, I could clearly feel energy flowing up and down his wrist. It flowed in distinguishable channels, like the phloem and xylem just under the bark of a tree. There is a LOT more to Aikido than muscle, bone, and techniques based on your opponent's momentum. It's too bad that while there is a lot of talk about energy and spirit, there is very little actual instruction. I eventually discovered that it is really pretty easy, which I suspect is the real reason why it is kept so secret, even from the favored students. It does take a lot of time though, between 10 to 20 years. You can "get" some energy improvements after only a few months, but to gather and control it takes decades, and an honest and skillful teacher, of which there are very few. Most of the Black Belts I saw and worked with couldn't do anything.
Kozo Nishino has a very good book on energy!
Do you know other good explanations?
Kozo Nishino has a very good book on energy!
Do you know other good explanations?
@@TerenceSpencerYT Leading the energy inside your body is dangerous; it gets fast results (sometimes) but energy seems to have a mind of its' own, and it can run wild on you. Also, the best advice about energy I got from my highest level teacher, Jane Yao (Tai-Chi) who said, "If you have a question, ask your feet." In other words, concentrate on the soles of your feet. Simple and safe.
This is so cool my aikido lineage goes back to him my sensei would talk about him all the time
Awesome
Are you also a Kokikai practitioner?
Many thanks and all the best, may Master Tohei rest in peace. Paul,69
One of the primary issues with Aikido is the lack of contact with other fighting styles (On top of never sparring) What we're seeing here is a hint of its untapped potential. Thanks to Tohei's knowledge of Judo, he was able to apply Aiki concepts successfully. Just imagine what could be done in self defense situations by an Aikidoka with a strong MMA background. Having sparred and adapted to multiple forms of attack through this well rounded training. It's entirely possible that Seagal's style of Aikido could be adapted to answer any form of attack.
I'd say that the self-defence skills grappling sports give you, in order of significance are 1. general balance; 2. gripping; 3. take-downs; 4. guard retention; 5. pins; 6. submissions.
Good one
Great video. At roughly 5:00, the technique is called "Ushiro Kata Otoshi". Ushiro Kiri Otoshi, is basically a Shomen Uchi from behind on the back of the head.
Usually have nothing to say. But I know this situation and know of Tohei’s disciples who could trash 16 people in real fights and left one with his skull split down the middle and gurgling in his blood. Happened in the 1970’s. The student got the sewing kit out and stitched the poor bastard’s face literally. He was a little white guy about Tohei’s size. Tohei had thrown judo players 2 and three at the same time in anything goes randori’s including state champion wrestlers. He did three judo players at once in Hawaii. He really didn’t understand at the time what was about to happen. There is film of this floating around in somebody’s private collection. It was after this that many judo players in hawaii switched to aikido. What your seeing is not a judo technique at all in the clip. I can remember practicing that tech when I was 24….no, its not kotegeashi….but could be done….its just Tohei trying to figure out how not to hurt the guy. Thats literally what going on there. Tohei comments on this in the book about his life that was published in the late 1980’s. You can see it by the way he’s kind of trying to back the guy off with little air pushing motions. Normally when Tohei would do this type of motion he would jump into the guys space and the guy would be airborne or off his feet…..no fake falling necessary. Tohei had true internal power…..im not an aiki guy but did study briefly with one of his disciples from when he first broke off with the aikikai….the power was very real. The guy had some ninja type psychic techniques he got from Tohei that people who follow Hatsumi sensei usually see him do …like lapses in consciousness etc…..you may not believe this….i understand cause it is so far out of people’s every day experience but I tell you for what its worth. Chad, I know your sincere….but until you experience this type of stuff with real hands on struggle …..guys who were bouncers…former Mister NJ etc were attending this club at the time I studied briefly with his student in 1992/3….a lot of real rough costumers came there to study because they knew of his students skill set and the realistic training…..and he could easily prove it to anybody who wanted to test it….and they did….and were converted…..not like other aiki schools.. because we knew even then…..those other schools were just nonsense. At the hiriki school I attended a few guys arms snapped…and one of the personal students had to be asked to leave…..the guy had real issues…but I say this to let you know it was serious rough stuff….blood was not uncommon. I repeat, what you see in this clip is Tohei trying to figure out how not to hurt this guy who probably could not handle physically many basic falling techniques……many credible judoka at the time would vouch for what im saying about Tohei….high ranking judoka Robert Smith CIA man….basically gives the same picture im painting of Tohei’s skills. It is no exaggeration…..there are many things i havent even mentioned here. I myself lived in China for over 8 years.
This was what Steve Morris had to say: One of the best recorded moments of things not quiet going according to plan is captured on 1958 film footage (now on video) of Tohei Koichi (8th Dan Aikido and 5th Dan Judo at the time) taking on an ageing, overweight, out of condition news reporter with obviously no martial arts experience either of the East or the West, but nevertheless intending to put up some kind of fight. What the film clearly shows, though it is often cited as testament to Tohei and Aikido’s effectiveness, is Tohei, the senior disciple of Ueshiba Morihei, experiencing great difficulty in controlling and finally subduing our totally exhausted pot-bellied hero with a ‘Judo choke.’ After witnessing Tohei’s performance it doesn’t require much imagination to speculate what would have happened to Tohei if the news reporter had had the fighting capabilities of a Tito Ortiz!
At the time no one had tito ortiz level of training anyway... Thats like saying "samurais would be fucked against a nuke" yeah, no shit, armor doesnt block nukes...
I'll look it up
Or Donn Draeger
It can be very tricky trying to make sure you don't hurt an inexperienced opponent.
Tons of technicality.
This was part of the film 'Rendezvous With Adventure." Tohei agreed to not hurt or injure the untrained cameraman. No punches or kicks from either side. It was more of a demo than sparring. A test of "what if our big guy just attacks you?"
O'Sensei was watching.
4:49 is irimi nage
Every martial art needs to rely its effectiveness in the combat practice of the technical principles instead of the techniques, the kuzushi and the grabbing is everything in the standing grappling, the footwork and the distance of each weapon is everything in standing striking, the positioning and dominance is everything in the ground fighting. We just need to design combat games to develop skills with the intensity of combat but safely. If you want to know more the chat is open.
Thank you for that. I done judo and goshin jitsu for years only for my local club. I went and trained with the Welsh squad, I was not in the squad just trained and thier gripping skills were very frustrating I couldn't get a grip to throw. It was very frustrating lol.
shodokan / tomiki style aikido which does have judo style throws kenji tomiki explains alot about his style & techiniques
Richard Bowe from New Jersey USA brought a rough aikido style back from Hokkaido Japan in the early 60s from when he was in the Air Force stationed there. Nihon Goshin Aikido which Larry Reynosa identifies in his aikido book on a lineage chart. Still many practitioners in the USA. Albany NY, Spartenburg SC, Middletown NY, North Bergen NJ and probably others. They claim that it is descended from the Aikijujutsu of Yoshida Kotaro (note that Don Angier [RIP] learned from Yoshida’s son Kenji[?] who oddly enough was living in upstate NY in the 60s. Maybe Rome or Utica.
Longtime student of aikido and have done judo cross training. I wonder what the rules were here. Like, would it have been acceptable for Tohei to break his fingers or wrist? Or atemi his eyes, chin or throat? I'm assuming not in a friendly filmed match scenario. But these are considered very fair aikido possibilities even when we don't do them - it's one of the reasons why aikdio (well, minus the small Tomiki style) is non-competitive. Not that's it better or worse - both match and non-match practice has value! - but (having been fairly punched in the face or have had my chin pushed hard in aikido) match rules certainly limit some aspects of practice and themselves change the nature of techniques, like what we're seeing from Tohei, I bet.
That's really interesting. A lot of us don't really associate Aikido with having atemi, even though Ueshiba did say that it formed the largest percentage of Aikido. I've made a video about Aikido on my channel. Please check it out and let me know what you think 🙏🏾
I know you have done a spot on Tomiki’s Aikido, but the style has moved forward with it’s sparring techniques. The head of Shodokan Aikido, Nariyama Sensei, was a champion of the early Aikido meets. Think about showing the sparring in Shodokan.
合気道で敵を制する難しさ 藤平先生は伝説的な合気道の達人だと聞いていますが
すごいよね...
Awesome video
Thank you
This is what is expected! All fighting styles use techniques from aikido, it is not questioned, but in aikido, let alone using another technique, it is questioned even if it is similar to that technique :))
藤平先生のお若い時の動画とは！
Hi Chadi can you do a video on ki in judo?
I'll look
A neat little grip technique that I don't think is allowed judo that learned in bjj is that when a your posture starts to break from having your lapel pulled down you can use a lapel and grab the crotch of their pant to pull their hip toward you as you walk your hip toward their hips while simultaneously pushing in with your lapel grip, correcting your posture at the same time. I would like it if we did more grip work at my gym, but quite frankly I don't know how much grip work my coach knows.
That's some nasty trick
Ironmind.com captains of crush and other grip tools. Inexpensive. Effective. Focus on heavy duty weight lifters. Note that traditional chinese boxers trained their grip to grab and twist skin. Very painful.
Oh hey that’s the Northampton dojo @ 3:45
Uke's right leg at 5:00
👍🏾
Ushiro Kiri Otoshi @5:02 .. also called Ushiro Ate in Tomiki Ryu (ruclips.net/video/xmmMbutA_OQ/видео.html) or Shikoro Dore in Kito Ryu by way of Koshiki no Kata (ruclips.net/video/szPq_jYnYlk/видео.html)
Also a technique in Kodokan Judo kata.
You mean Koshiki no Kata? or does it show up in another Judo Kata
It is in the Kodokan Goshinjutsu kata. Late in the tachidori section it is used as a counter for a somewhat karate like yoko geri. The individual techniques in the kata is just called "Yoko geri" for the attack.
Thanks for sharing
4:50 I think that was gedan ate or gyaku gamae-ate.
judo in ajkido mind
Can these grip fighting techniques work on people just wearing bright speedo?
Lol 😂 like Borat?
You clinch
@@Chadi or clench 🤣
I study an offshoot of Tomiki Aikido, and I think that it is the future of Aikido if it is to survive being a Budo. Aikido in my opinion is a form of standing grappling. We don't have to worry so much about people with swords or spears these days, so why keep teaching it that way? It's fine to keep the old ways alive and study the roots of an art, but the art has to be relevant to modern day self-defense....and I'm not talking about MMA. Any moron can learn to kick and punch.
Aikido went its own way without competitions hierarchy and still budo with traditional hierarchy not as real-world and practical especially in competitions but aikido still has its unique own way.
It own ass way to scam money
@@vuquanghuy3441 money is a tool, not an end goal
@@pahtashow yeah the end goal is more cultist
@@vuquanghuy3441 end goal is aiki. not just a cult. like it or not
Aikido has its place. I have witnessed the effectiveness first hand in a scenario where the practitioner had a knife pulled on him. I do not believe that any style is a be all end all of self defense. If one trains martial arts thinking that any style they train is sufficient for real world scenarios...they are a fool. Even the greatest of grandmasters would be at a significant disadvantage against someone untrained, with a firearm.
Aikido is a strategy not a technique, the its physical movements are way of teaching this strategy. Aikido respects the various forms of striking methods such as boxing, muaythai, karate , brazilian juijutsu as natural facts of human movements, these are forms of conveying strategy. harmonious energy of natures way -aikido, that never see and adversary as an opponent to defeat. Not see a confllict as a fight or competion but as a force of nature that has to be harmonized.
To win a battle or war without fighting one must defeat the enemy's strategy.. one way is not to be an opponent of an enemy , let the enemy attack nature. that is what aikido is
To win a war through fighting ,, use whatever advantage available against the enemy, use the opposite of what the enemy deploys. If enemy uses mma, use 4 fighters against him, if enemy use a stick, use a pistol, if use an automatic rifle-use a gatling gun against him,, so on so forth..
Do not be ashamed of being an aikido practitioner,, Aikido is not preventing anyone from practising other arts or mixing of techniques , in fact Aikido wants a fighter to best while still preventing loss of life and keeping peace
"whether its scapular level" lol someone watched danaher's last video
Lol guilty
Aikido - wrist locks + sparring = Real Aikido.
Or Aikijutsu 👍
The man who was watching the match looked a bit like the actor Simon Oakland?
He was the presenter of the TV show. It was called Rendezvous with Adventure, and the episode this clip come from is a trip to Tokyo. The guy that challenged Tohei was part of the film crew, but also had screen time. The host went to the Aikido home dojo and got s private lesson. Herman was his training partner. The full episode is available on RUclips.
Thanks for the info.
Akido needs to be more like this. How and why is became too soft of a martial art these days really baffles me.
Because of World War 2.
I have theorised a no gi sumi otoshi, instead of elbow and lapel you grab tricep and hair
柔道技に見えても全く別の物ですよ。同じように見えてもフィジカルやテコの原理で投げているわけではないので。
実際の合気道は何も手首や関節を決めるものではなく、合気（藤平氏の場合は氣＋統一体）が重要で、その状態で状況に応じた動作を行います。両腕で掴み掛かられた状況の場合は、手首に固執せず、そのまま柔道と似た形の投げになるということだと思いますよ。
技に類似性があっても、原理自体は全くの別物ですね。
I thought he ended up with a rear choke
Mr. Koga died of cancer.RIP
I know It's heartbreaking
remembering the words of Jigoro Kano: Aikido is the perfect Judo! That's it! If you train in the old way!
I believe, what he said was after watching Morehei Ueshiba do an Aikido demonstration was this: "This is the ideal Budo. True Judo!" What is out there now is nothing even close to Aikido. It's not even close to Sensei Kano's Judo. They've lost their way and it has devolved into yanking on each other.
Alot of people forget aikido top contenders like o sensei,gozo shioda, steven segal, and even fictional legend goki shibukawa trained aikido in randori and ground techniques it's nothing new to aikido
I've seen dos Santos have a bjj no gi match he used 0 wrestling he used judo
the more I watch videos like this, the more I'm convinced that aikido is just a bunch of high-level judoka that indulged themselves in theory, and forgot HOW TO TEACH the theory practically. if you're an absolute beginner it seems so much better to just get into judo or sambo instead of getting into aikido. aikido is just too "head in the clouds" and makes assumptions that you're skilled enough to pull off or force certain scenarios. judo seems to be what gives you the proper training and tools to get to those scenarios in the first place. "assumed optimal ability/performance" or something like that seems to be the sin of aikido.
I tend to agree, judo and aikido are more connected than is generally considered.
Aikido came from Daito Ryu which was mainly an art to deal with weapons when your unarmed, it has some crossover with judo cause they're both forms of jujutsu
Aikido is the king of wrist locks!
If only they sparred
Probably the best solution (considering Aikido mentality/way of thinking) would be "quest/task sparring". This is done in few dojos, but for some reason not in all 🤔
В японском айкидо - побеждают японцы ...
Tohei managed two aikido waza and three judo waza. Neither look like they would last long against a modern adult shodan in judo, but interesting little bit of history to watch all the same.
If this is what Tohei could do against an unexperienced fighter, i am afraid that we didn't loose too much.
Unfortunately these people never fought..In the same period in Judo we had Kimura....
Tohei was a 5th dan in Judo.
most chances aikidoka there were ex-judo so they had the right spirit of fight not as today...
Toehi had the chi
Wow, a non gray haired 10th dan.
Tohei and Kisshomaru is one of the main reasons mainstream Aikido became the fringe that it is. I personally hate his lack of skills in contrast to the coverage he gets over other proper disciples. He took the whole spiritual thing (used to as cover to convince GHQ for resuming activity) to heart. What a tragedy.
Indeed. He was the first 10th dan, promoted directly by Ueshiba Osensei and the older 9th dans and later promoted 10th dans were jealous. That is why he started Shinshin Toitsu Aikido.
@@kenwintin3014 jealous, or disdained by the post-war state of budo? For Oo-sensei to promote Tohei was a real appeal to the woke post-war crowd. By 1969, all the teachers with real martial content has already set up their own schools to protect what Aikido once was
@@yn5568 Both,no doubt. I admit that his style was purely Aiki inyo ho with little of the katai of Daito Ryu and of course the more traditional Iwama disciples. Don't know much about the other important disciples in Tokyo area except a few and most were indeed much more "martial".
@@kenwintin3014 I mean, Shiota and Tomiki are big ones. There’s also Hisa Takuma, Kobayashi, etc. who all established their school or sect to avoid having to teach Aikikai style
@@yn5568 Indeed.
Hate to say it but it takes an EXCEPTIONAL individual to make aikido work - and that's if the other guy DOESN'T punch and kick you. I love aikido as a spiritual art - but not a martial art - although some of it's concepts can be incorporated into other arts.
I agree, that's why it doesn't work in mixed martial arts.
👊
This was basically a grappling match, and Tohei had a 3rd dan in Judo, so he was used to that. I dont really what this has to do with Aikido, which is really a philosphical exercise, not a practical one.
That's the whole point of this video, everyone is saying it doesn't work he used judo, i demonstrated that,
And said at the end he used basic judo knowledge go win, please listen
For me who practiced judo and switched to aikido it's kind-of a mix between the two. But some moves he does (moving around, his posture, using all the body, the way he uses his arms,) are really aikido like, the way Toei breaks his opponent posture, and the choice of technics, even if Sumi otoshi is both judo and aikido technic it's not that easy to do, it's really technical, and you really have to be on time. We learn that in aikido. I really believe we should do that kind of randori in aïkido. As I told you last summer we did at the summer stages with our teachers and I noticed that most aikido students were lost during that exercise and I could defeat aikido black belts even 2nd dan (I am a brown belt judo after all). But not the 6th dan aikido teachers and the 3rd and 4th dan students. But the other people that were not used to kumi Kata and ne waza were really surprised because it did not go like the kind of Kata we do in aikido normal training. It's also there I learned kote gaeshi was really efficient but doing more like Mifune does it.
He did execute at least a couple techniques that were Aikido techniques but not Judo techniques. At least one Kokyu nage throw that I saw
But I thought aikido didn't work!
At least that's what people on the internet say...
But on a serious note, I wish more schools engaged in such randori. Sparring needs to some level of intensity to mimic the chaos of real fighting or assault.
If they sparred they'd see it doesn't work
Unskilled guy getting beat by more skilled guy using judo techniques in what is basically judo randori isn't exactly proof of aikido working.
He used his judo
aikido is a strategy not a technique, the physical movements are way of teaching this strategy. Aikido respects the various forms of striking methods such as boxing, muaythai, karate , brazilian juijutsu as natural facts of human movements, these are forms of conveying strategy. harmonious energy of natures way -aikido, that never see and adversary as an opponent to defeat. Not see a confllict as a fight or competion but as a force of nature that has to be harmonized.
To win a battle or war without fighting one must defeat the enemy's strategy.. one way is not to be an opponent of an enemy , let the enemy attack nature. that is what aikido is
To win a war through fighting ,, use whatever advantage available against the enemy, use the opposite of what the enemy deploys. If enemy uses mma, use 4 fighters against him, if enemy use a stick, use a pistol, if use an automatic rifle-use a gatling gun against him,, so on so forth..
Do not be ashamed of being an aikido practitioner,, Aikido is not preventing anyone from practising other arts or mixing of techniques , in fact Aikido wants a fighter to best while still preventing loss of life and keeping peace
@@leusmaximusx that's all great but aikido doesn't address self defense at all anymore than yoga or meditation do.
乱取り形式になると合気道の技は皆無で柔道になっちまう、どうなってんだ？と思ったよ。そして、この乱取りを見た瞬間、合気道をやろうと思っていた気持ちが瞬時に冷めたんだよね。これだったら柔道やればいいわけで。結局、空手をやることにしたけど。
私のビデオのアイデアは、藤平が柔道を使うというものでした、そして合気道が圧力をかけられたとき、彼はそれを使わずに柔道を使いました
藤平さんほどの達人がこれじゃなあ…。揉み合ってるだけなんだもん
I was wondering when you finally gonna put out this historical video. It has been on RUclips many years. This is exactly what happens to Aikido when you remove all Atemi waza from its technical skills. It just turns into really bad judo or wrestling. Without Atemi Aikido requires unrealistic reflexes and timing.
They can use kuzushi to do their wrist locks
@@Chadi yes you can use kuzushi to get to your locks and a lot of Aikido principles revolve around off balancing uke at the first touch although it much more subtle then Judo or wrestling but regardless, Atemi can actually act as a form of off balancing in itself making the techniques much easier to apply in real time. All of O’Sensei’s early Yudansha were big advocates of Atemi and were known for it. You need to read the book Atemi the Thunder and lightning of Aikido written by Walther Von Krenner. He was a Blackbelt level Judoka for years and taught Judo he also studied directing under Kisshomaru and later O’Sensei himself in Japan for years.
Basically, each and every 1 year of seriously training Judo is more or less equal to getting 1 dan in Aikido. I mean, successively: after 3-4-5 years of of regular Judo practice an average Judoka will, roughly speaking, destroy an average Aikidoka who possesses all the corresponding dans (say: 3d, 4th, 5th etc.), probably will be able even to kill him/her if that is the point (e.g. in the street, or under war-like circumstances). Believe it or not, this does not interest me at all. Stay safe.
I agree. When I was a shodan in Japan, I had a chance to have matches with Aikidoka on the base at Camp Zama. Sandans and Yodans were unable to do anything with me, but learned from it and made progress. The judo instructor at the base before me used to invite me to his house for the "weekend", meaning my days off, and have me fight karate, jujutsu and aikido people also. I have to admit that I often got my lunch handed to me at those. I rarely was really beaten so much as brutalized and left lumpy and bruised.
The point of this video was to show thay when an aikidoka who os a judoka had to fight he used his judo, please listen carefully next time
@@Chadi Sorry. We got off on a completely different line of thought. I agree 100 percent.
Tohei studied Judo before Aikido. This match he won because his Judo. He could not adapt to the reporter aggression and had not much control over him. His Aikido power came from his calm training from a Zen teacher whom was a student of a famous sword master. I do thank him for introducing the Ki concept in Aikido even , many years of training, it was inconsistent to the Aikido principle found by Old Sensei. Mid point concentration is too simplistic, it only worked for Mr. Tohei because of his Zen training.
That's really interesting! Yeah, I think you're right. Tohei's Judo training probably is what he relied on, more than his Aikido. I've made a video about Aikido on my channel. Please check it out and let me know what you think 🙏🏾
aikido + reality = judo
True hha 😅
Yes
So, where is Aikido???
Poor Tohei, no aikido and no judo.
Many aikidoka feel shame for this video.
Many people who were at the events where Tohei participated as guest star never could witness what was said later on in legenday terms. There are proofs, no matters how immature aikidoka try to create a myth out of a person.
Here we have an old journalist who we couldn't really call an expert fighter as somebody is pretending to day about this old "opponent".
Not only there is nothing of Tohei's aikido, like blending, same point of view of the opponent.
There is only a demonstration of push pulling.
Tohei has been lucky to meet a journalist instead of a fighter.
In the same period we had Kimura in Judo...but good for Tohei, no Kimura here.
Tohei never fought, and we don't have any demo for this.
He has been sai in Hawaii to fight against sumotoris and this is also false, there was no fight. Just a demo, as pictures can prove, in a friendly atmosphere. In fact we have proofs of a sankyo in no fighting moment on one of them, while if there was a fight, we could have had pics also of that.
Further more nobody who spoke about this after watching it, could speak about a real fight.
It is like Shirakawa today. He teaches to two "MMA fighters" and then somebody calls it a fight...
Then naif people can believe what they want.
Of course believers are believers.
Aikidokas need to spar
@@Chadi Yes agree, but for me the best spar for aikido is a muay thai context of rules, not exactly a grappling art.
This is how I practice the sparring.
For supershort distance i practice in apparently more grappling way, but it could be very different from what we are used to see in grappling competition.
They could look the same because the human body moves more or less a certain way, but it is not the same since the reasons behind the movement are different.
aikido is a strategy not a technique, the physical movements are way of teaching this strategy. Aikido respects the various forms of striking methods such as boxing, muaythai, karate , brazilian juijutsu as natural facts of human movements, these are forms of conveying strategy. harmonious energy of natures way -aikido, that never see and adversary as an opponent to defeat. Not see a confllict as a fight or competion but as a force of nature that has to be harmonized.
To win a battle or war without fighting one must defeat the enemy's strategy.. one way is not to be an opponent of an enemy , let the enemy attack nature. that is what aikido is
To win a war through fighting ,, use whatever advantage available against the enemy, use the opposite of what the enemy deploys. If enemy uses mma, use 4 fighters against him, if enemy use a stick, use a pistol, if use an automatic rifle-use a gatling gun against him,, so on so forth..
There is no shame on part of aikido practitioners, please share this with your other practitioners
Tohei was also a ballroom dancer
Айкідо це акторські виступи, це показ боротьби для потіхи глядачів
Would this littler man have a chance if he wasn't a black belt in judo?
My personal opinion is no
@@Chadi mine too. I'm not a betting man but if forced I'd wager my whole check.
A wrestler with a month of training could have taken that big clumsy guy down like it was nothing. I'd expect more from a "Grandmaster" that spent his whole life developing these techniques. This really just shows what a sham most "traditional martial arts" are.
I saw mention of this fight from a Steve Morris article where he was pointing out what a hard time Tohei was having with this out of shape reporter and I had to watch. As usual everybody is being highly charitable because the guy has epic traditional master rankings and we're supposed to respect that despite the lack of any fighting ability
First time i see an aikido master use his art against an non passive partner. Cool but still look like a bad version of judo
If I am being honest. Most art will look like shit when the pressure is on. Sometimes you execute a technique perfectly like a drill, but often not.
yeah what tom* said also aikido in essence is just ment to be just a more refined form of judo or jujitsu. Of course refined can also just be another word for incomplete depening on situation and context.
Tohei used his judo to beat him
The partner still looks like a rather compliant one.
合気の伝説的達人がド素人を相手にしてコレ！？
No different to a light sparring session, and I mean light, of toshu randori shiai in Tomiki aikido... If Tohei was 8th Dan then, he would've had problems with some of the Tomiki players during the 80's & 90's who were at national level & international level then, who were only 4th or 5th Dan level... I sense a case of "grade inflation " was going on to promote Aikikai aikido, but the rift between Tohei & Kisshomaru Ueshiba ended up with Tohei taking his own path .... £ & $ me thinks... 😏😉 Tomiki was right to take aikido into combat sport, by giving the paper tiger some teeth... 👐
So he beat a guy that was old, over weight, untrained and not athletic. Congrats, Aikido still sucks
He used his judo that's the point of thos video
Aikido is a fighting style that has no sparring in general, and only a few spars in Aikido, which is basically a throwing contest. Tohei was able to do this because he did judo, a practical martial art. If Tohei was a pure Aikidoka, his skills would be not much different than someone who is uneducated in fighting.
Aikido uses fake fight videos or videos of Aikidoka with other fighting backgrounds to promote their art. Aikido itself has pathetic level of fighting skills in real life. You can find Aikido master of Russia participating in Stelka, a Russian MMA tournament. He gets beat up by different people everytime.
Aikido IS NOT A FIGHTING STYLE, champion.
@@josemanueljaureguiargenta9712 It is, technically. Traditional hapkido is not effective in real hand to hand combat, but koryu japanese jujutsu and aikido are even worse.
But Aikido, along with japanese traditional jujutsu schools that do not spar, have no clue in real fight.
@@alter5057 No, it's not. And don't sweat it.
@@josemanueljaureguiargenta9712 If aikido is not a fighting style, what is it to you?
@@alter5057 A war system (Martial Art) adapted to self-protection.
Aikido just does not work unless it is in demonstrations with a compliant opponent offering no defence. Show me a top level Aikido guy and a pumped up hardened fighter.
Won't work