Not a nice situation at night. You obviously did the right moves since you prevailed. I’ve been in a similar sticky situation and motored over my anchor and dragged it forward and luckily it found a better seabed. My next move was to do as you did and deploy my second bow anchor. My last resort would have been to stay up all night and motor into the wind.
Thank you for this comment. Ok, that's a good idea that I didn't think of -- to motor over the anchor and drag it forward. That likely would have worked here -- and it would have given me some peace of mind as well -- more distance upwind. And motoring into the wind -- last resort. Ok. This is very helpful. Thank you. I singlehand most of the time so this forum has really helped me learn about many things. Thanks for this.
To my opinion - being actually in that situation - alone on the boat - you did a really good job on the problem. One thing came up to my mind which I think was not commented before: The highest stress upon the anchor setup is build up by dynamic forces. Those are produced obviously by the waves and on the other hand some boats start a kind of sailing movement behind the anchor until stoped by the chain before changing the side of movement. Maybe stopping this movement by having a little sail in the back of the boat or just letting out a second anchor at the back of your boat to the ground would have helped the first anchor to hold. But obviously I do not know your boat and I do not know how it is reacting in the wind behind the anchor. All the best -Dieter
Thanks mate. I appreciate your thoughtful and detailed comment. I like your idea. That may have helped. I also had quite a large arc in the wind which you can see the scatter of track points off. A stern anchor might have helped keep me away from the dock to starboard. These comments are becoming almost like a kind of handbook for this topic. I think I may compile them and print them off for myself as a set of reminders. Or perhaps I will post a summary of people's ideas in another video. The cmments on here must be reflective of hundreds of thousands of ocean miles and hours. Thanks to you and everyone who has shared their experiences. Clearly, I still have a lot to learn!
That takes a lot of skill to do what you have done single-handed. I sail with my wife. That would have been challenging for us, but an extra set of hands makes things much easier. My hat's off to you.
Thanks mate. That is a very gracious comment. I am still learning -- and I am really pleased that so many sailors with more experience and knowledge than me have responded to my query with some excellent coaching on how to better handle this situation. Happy sailing mate.
One time I remember dragging, the wind had done a 180 and was blowing over 20. I was blown a short distance onto a lee shore. It was at night and when I came out into the cockpit there were tree branches hanging over the bimini. But my first indication of a problem was when I looked forward with a flashlight and saw the anchor rode at a 90 degree angle from the boat's heading. I quickly started the engine and had my friend come up and steer forward slowly while I pulled in the rode (30' boat weighing just 10K). We motored another 300' forward and I reset the hook and we were fine. The other time, I was alone and had a fairly new Mantus. It was a tight anchorage and I got another 180 wind shift. I nearly backed into a dock. I started the engine, locked the wheel and put it just above idle and forward. I ran to the bow and pulled in the anchor. I was really lucky I got out of that one. In both of those cases, I had no time or distance to put down a second anchor but I do think that being in forward gear gives enough forward force that it allows you to pull the boat up to the anchor. Of course, that probably only works in winds under 20 or 25. Great subject! Thank you!!
Thank you for sharing this with us. I do agree -- this is kind of not talked about very much, or at least peripherally in my experience. It sounds like you handled things very well in both of those cases. I like your second idea for singlehanding. I wondered about leaving it in forward at a slow idle like that. I will try it next time in a controlled environment when I have lots of time, daylight and searoom. Thanks for the anecdotes. These comments have become quite a good primer on this subject. I have learned a lot from them already. So thank you!
Hi Steve! My two cents worth would be a modern anchor (spade, rocna mantus...), put out a 7:1 scope (chain and rode would be good), a snubber of about a boat length ( I am not too sure where you attached your snubber). That has worked for me. If you drag then a combination of an electric windlass and slowly motoring up to reset would likely be the most reliable option for a solo sailor. Keep the videos coming and hopefully we can connect on our boats in the PNW!
Hey Bill. Thanks for the tips. I have a 20 kg Bruce anchor and 200 feet of chain. 7:1 -- ok that's a good suggestion. Snubber of a boat length -- ah ok, good idea. I had it very short, on deck even, just to take the load off of the windlass. I can easily make it longer to add some stretch and absorption into the system. When you say "slowly motoring up" do you meet with the anchor still on the bottom? Or haul it up first, then motor forward? Awesome mate. Sure mate, let me know if you are up here. You can email me at sdemaio@shaw.ca and we can connect for a beer if our schedules mesh.
Get a bigger anchor bud and lay more rogue. A seven to one ratio to be on the safe side is what I was taught in the bareboat ASA sailing course that I took last year. Thank you for the video. Cheers!
I live overlooking Garden Bay and noticed your strap ladders hanging off your deck having previously viewed your video on them. I don’t know what more you could have done. Garden Bay has poor holding with a smooth rock bottom and we have seen many boats drag their anchor and end up at the yacht club. I don’t think more rode, snubbers or a different anchor would have helped. Your comments on the Venturi effect are accurate. Only advice I have would be to consult with the Sailing Directions issued by Canadian Hydrographic which would have told you there is poor holding in Garden Bay.
Oh wow. Thank you sooo much for chiming in hear and reporting back! That is very generous and thoughtful of you! Yes, I mostly sail singlehanded so I have the ladders there in the event that go over the side -- I have a least a chance to get back aboard. I also clip short with my tether. Nevertheless, they do provide some comfort that I might be able to get back aboard. That is very interesting regarding Garden Bay holding being poor. I looked in two other guidebooks I have and there was no mention of it. Thank you for pointing out that the sailing directions can be a good source of information. Ah ok, thanks for that confirmation on the venturi effect. The winds were much stronger in the bay than were in the forecast. I have experienced that phenomenon a few times in other places as well. Again, thank you for taking the time and consideration to track me down and let all of us know the facts on garden bay. That was very considerate of you. Thanks from myself and all of us. All the best.
Except for undersized ground tackle the number one reason for anchor drag is a lack of scope. ( assuming your anchor was set well to begin with) sometimes the anchorage’s bottom just won’t hold. And it’s just not a good spot to be in heavy winds. But of course local knowledge is the only way to know this until it happens. As charts and cruising guides won’t always give you that info. But asking local sailors will. Check the forecast before going to sleep maybe your 5 to 1 scope needs to be 8 to 1 or more. If the forecast is predicting a change on wind direction or the charts show a large current through the anchorage when tides change. You need to determine is the bottom going to hold your anchor should you spin 90 degrees from when you set it even good anchors will drag a bit when the need to reset but what if your originally anchored on a sloping bottom in 40 feet but your anchor is set with your rode going toward the shallows well it set really good when. You backed down on it and your scope is 5 to one in 40 ft water. Over knight the wind changes 180 degrees and your anchor spins comes out and dragged but now your boat has swung out into deeper water below it and the bottom. Is sloping away and your dragging the anchor as it’s trying to reset as the bottom is falling away the scope angle of your rode is now not alaong the bottom but pulling the shank up the tip of your anchor won’t dig and as it drags the deeper the water gets and the more your scope angle increases. Now likely this situation will allow you to drag away from rocks or shore but it could be in an area with a bridge or other boats you’re dragging towards. So sometimes a second anchor or Bahamas mooring setup (2 anchors set one in each direction with your rode attached between them. So your anchor is set regardless of how your boat turns. I have learned these things both the hard way and from the wisdom of others. Sometimes just setting the anchor and with the proper scope for current conditions and depth is NOT enough alone. You need to know if your anchor will drag into deeper water or the bottom material simply won’t let your anchor bite again. Local knowledge is key. This video shows some great examples but a second anchor may help or even just more scope maybe enough.
Thank you sooo much for this excellent and detailed comment. We can all learn from you mate. I am very interested in this "Bahamas" mooring set up. From a practical standpoint, how would suggest setting it up? How have you done it in the past? Do you use a dinghy to get the second anchor set? Or a combination of the boat, and the dinghy? If you are in 30 feet of water, say, would you connect the second rode about 30 feet from the first anchor, and leave yourself 30 feet on the rode to the second anchor? Then add, say, 6:1 or 7:1 from the connection point? I would love to hear how other sailors accomplish this. Can it be executed in high wind? Or do you have complete it in advance? Thanks again for your great comment.
@ I which I could explain it in detail Ina a comment but thankfully someone else with RUclips channel has done a detailed explanation on how it works. And how to setup the change and the two (or even three anchors.) m.ruclips.net/video/pOilmQn8TBA/видео.html
to me it sounds like you did it right. One of the usual techniques is to take a second anchor out on your dinghy but I saw the dinghy was still lashed on deck. Launching it in a strong blow would be it's own challenge and you mentioned that you didn't think you could effectively row upwind with it blowing that hard. Another option is to increase the scope if you have room to leeward. An option if you don't have searoom is to run your engine to take the stress off the rode. That is a technique that has been used to ride out extremely strong storms. What I would consider the last option if you have run out of sea room is to run the engine to slack the rode, then raise the anchor. With your setup you would need to run back and forth between the bow and the cockpit until the anchor is raised. Then you can motor around until the wind abates and try to set your anchor again. From the video it looked like you were dragging anchor toward a lee shore. While not ideal and a bit scary, the water tends to get shallower which effectively increases your scope. The topology up here in the PNW means we get a lot of steep drop offs that can lead to you being left with a dangling anchor if you are getting blown off shore. But all of this does lead to sleepless nights.
Thank you for this very thoughtful and detailed coaching comment. Very much appreciated. I was worried about the launch of the dinghy, and I was also concerned that I may not be able to row against that wind and thus cause a whole new challenge of getting back upwind with the anchor in the dinghy. I had about 150 feet to a boat downwind -- and about 60 or 70 feet of swing room to a series of docks to starboard. I could have added some more rode to the chain, subject to the swing room to starboard. Running the engine and helming to keep stress off the chain I think could have been a viable option if I ran out of searoom. I considered running the engine to create slack in the chain to raise it -- I have done this in less wind, and, your point about running back and forth is valid. In the moment, I was worried in might be futile... and that I could waste an hour trying it, and thus drift further downwind. I also fussing about the anchor coming off the bottom and the boat taking off downwind and losing sea room in the attempt. There was a lee shore -- and there were boats downwind as well. Thank you for this comment. I am, and I am sure others, are learning a lot here. Thanks mate.
I am inexperienced and in a Catalina 22. I have wondered what to do in that situation. With an outboard. I was thinking I could motor in a swing direction to port side. Then drop 2nd anchor. Perhaps motor slowly in reverse? Wondering if I could use this method to pull anchor in strong wind when solo. Your thoughts. Thank you .
Sound like the could work. I motored slowly forward about 120 feet and then dropped the second anchor. I had 200 feet of heavy chain out so i judged that the risk was low of getting my chain fouled in the propellor. I have and others have used the motor to take tension off the rode in a wind to haul it in. I have used and "on/off" tactic. Another viewer has used a slow forward tactic. Give those a try and report back -- we would all love to hear how it went. All the best mate.
Roger that mate. Definitely a risk. The chain is quite heavy - a quarter inch in diameter or so. You can't see a thing, however.... pitch black, blowing like 'ell,,,, Thanks for the comment.
I would have done the same. Though perhaps engaged the motor to take off the strain. Though diesels don’t like running slow for long periods. Questions What anchors. How did you set the anchor. Either you had poor holding, or you need a bigger better anchor.
Roger that mate. Thanks for the chiming in here. I'm learning a lot from the comments. I set the anchor at about 1000 RPM in reverse. It was still moving at 2000 RPM, though in the moment, it was calm and I was not expecting such wind. Perhaps I should have been more aggressive in my setting of it. In the end, the main anchor did finally hold and there was no tension on the second in the morning. (though the wind did finally ease off around 2:00 in the morning.
If I am expecting wind I drop my Rocna Vulcan and a Fortress then set the Rocna keeping the other slack. When set I pull in most of the the slack on the Fortress and cleat it. If the main anchor drags more than a few feet the Fortress will then "set" as well. The Rocna is about 3X oversized for my boat all chain and the Fortress 2X with 15 foot of chain. So far in up to 30 knot winds the Fortress has only started to set.
Hey mate -- thank you for that. I really like that idea. I think that could have worked well here if I had the foresight. I wasn't expecting the wind. The forecast was for 15 knots out in the Strait -- but I suspect there was also a Venturi effect from the mountains and the wind accelerated through the anchorage. (I had neve been there before). Thank you for sharing this idea. All the best mate.
I would be interested to know what type of anchor you had down? , a modern design or older type. The problem with deploying a second anchor is the possibility of the two getting tangled together
Thanks for the comment mate. I have a 20 kg Bruce with 200' of quite heavey chain. Yeah for sure, I did have some concern with that as well, though it seemed I needed to take the risk in the moment to add security to the system.
Firstly, I run my storm anchor as my main anchor. For my 17 ton boat that means an 80kg/175lb anchor with 115m/380ft of chain. It never drags. I let out alot of scope. Often 10:1, sometimes in shallow water 15:1. Once you are dragging, your choices are: engage motor, let out more scope or re-anchor. A second anchor is seldom helpful, especially singlehanding. You could have buoyed your chain and dumped it and re-anchored with your second anchor. How big and what is your anchor?
Thank you for this detail mate. Very much appreciated. 10:1 -- wow -- ok, 15:1 in shallow! Ok, that is really good to know. I have a 20 kg Bruce -- so 44 lb anchor and 200 feet of quite heavy chain. What do you mean by "buoyed your chain and dumped it?" Does that mean, haul it in and redeploy? (or does it mean, just let it go over the side with a marking and retrieval buoy to be retrieved later?) I haven't heard that terminology before. Thank you for chiming in here. I am learning a lot.
@@respecttherisk2022 sometimes you have to escape an anchorage quickly so tie a fender to the end of the chain and dump the whole lot out into the water. Then you can come back and retrieve it later. Even with a power windlass sometimes it takes too long to pull the chain up, so better to let it all out. I usually tie the biggest fender I have to the chain just outside the bow roller with a prussik loop if the line won't go through the chain links. Your anchor is too small. I use that tables in most anchor manufacturers literature and I go to the storm size and go up a size or two from there. I am a weight weenie and my boat qualifies as an ultralight. I go to great lengths to keep weight down, but this is the one place where I will go heavy, and much heavier than most people. I haven't dragged since I evolved this large anchor policy, and I sleep very well. I never even think about it. The Bruce is very outdated and my experience is that the new generation anchors are considerably better than the Bruce. The only exception is the Delta anchor which is very poor and worse than your Bruce. I would look for a second hand anchor on eBay. I have been sailing, both cruising and professionally for 40 years and have just over 200,000 miles, 11 transatlatics and 4 times across the Pacific. I have cruising experience in the Arctic and tropics and most places in between.
@@deerfootnz Hey thanks for this great level of detail and your clarification. That is a very interesting idea that I have never heard of before re dumping the anchor. Thank you for that coaching Captain! What anchor would you suggest? What do you have on your boat? My Contessa 38 is 16,000 lbs empty. I need to look at one of these charts. I like the way you are thinking on this. Wow mate! That is one VERY impressive sailing resume! Bravo! Thank you for sharing all of this with me and all of us. We can learn a lot from you! Thank you soooo much!
@respecttherisk2022 I have an 80kg Rocna. The size recommended for my boat my Rocna is half that. I like the spade, ultra & mantus anchors. All of the new generation anchors are good with the exception of the Delta. SV Panope has a great channel on RUclips with extensive testing. He is from somewhere near you.
150 ft. motoring over your chain sounds scary as well. I guess I have never heard of someone hitting their anchor chain, its heavy. To answer your question, electric windlass with a remote at the helm with a digital readout of the length would be nice, expensive I'm sure. (I can spend your money easily.) Is it possible to motor and get the boat in the original position and then pull in the windless and reposition the anchor? Then set the 2nd anchor.
Thanks for chiming in with ideas and coaching mate! Much appreciated. Yeah, motoring over chain is definitely not ideal.... it is quite heavy chain. Believe me, I was asking myself about the manual windlass as this was going on for sure. Yes -- I have had to motor forward before to ease the tension on the windlass -- in the wind, the boat loses way very fast so there is a quite a dance running back and forth to achieve that. I did not try it in this case, thinking it might be futile in such strong wind.... and that I could be wasting time, and sea room while I attempted it.... Thanks for the comment mate.
1) Learn to set an anchor properly, anchors will set 9/10 times easily but 1/10 they won't, bad holding, a crab trap or other junk on bottom can intefere with holding 2) get a modern anchor, slightly oversize your choice for added ease of mind; these are two things I would do before dropping a 2nd anchor at night in 30 knts. any modern, correctly sized anchor should hold easily in 30 knts with minimal dragging.
Thanks for the thoughtful and detailed comment mate. I think I may have been a bit cavalier in the setting of this anchor -- I only took it up to 1,000 RPM so there is certainly an action item for me there. It's a Bruce 20 kg anchor.
After I deployed the second anchor -- and the wind calmed down around 2:00 am, the boat went forward and sat more comfortably. So I did get some sleep after that.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Not a nice situation at night. You obviously did the right moves since you prevailed. I’ve been in a similar sticky situation and motored over my anchor and dragged it forward and luckily it found a better seabed. My next move was to do as you did and deploy my second bow anchor. My last resort would have been to stay up all night and motor into the wind.
Thank you for this comment. Ok, that's a good idea that I didn't think of -- to motor over the anchor and drag it forward. That likely would have worked here -- and it would have given me some peace of mind as well -- more distance upwind. And motoring into the wind -- last resort. Ok. This is very helpful. Thank you. I singlehand most of the time so this forum has really helped me learn about many things. Thanks for this.
To my opinion - being actually in that situation - alone on the boat - you did a really good job on the problem. One thing came up to my mind which I think was not commented before: The highest stress upon the anchor setup is build up by dynamic forces. Those are produced obviously by the waves and on the other hand some boats start a kind of sailing movement behind the anchor until stoped by the chain before changing the side of movement. Maybe stopping this movement by having a little sail in the back of the boat or just letting out a second anchor at the back of your boat to the ground would have helped the first anchor to hold. But obviously I do not know your boat and I do not know how it is reacting in the wind behind the anchor.
All the best -Dieter
Thanks mate. I appreciate your thoughtful and detailed comment. I like your idea. That may have helped. I also had quite a large arc in the wind which you can see the scatter of track points off. A stern anchor might have helped keep me away from the dock to starboard. These comments are becoming almost like a kind of handbook for this topic. I think I may compile them and print them off for myself as a set of reminders. Or perhaps I will post a summary of people's ideas in another video. The cmments on here must be reflective of hundreds of thousands of ocean miles and hours. Thanks to you and everyone who has shared their experiences. Clearly, I still have a lot to learn!
That takes a lot of skill to do what you have done single-handed. I sail with my wife. That would have been challenging for us, but an extra set of hands makes things much easier. My hat's off to you.
Thanks mate. That is a very gracious comment. I am still learning -- and I am really pleased that so many sailors with more experience and knowledge than me have responded to my query with some excellent coaching on how to better handle this situation. Happy sailing mate.
One time I remember dragging, the wind had done a 180 and was blowing over 20. I was blown a short distance onto a lee shore. It was at night and when I came out into the cockpit there were tree branches hanging over the bimini. But my first indication of a problem was when I looked forward with a flashlight and saw the anchor rode at a 90 degree angle from the boat's heading. I quickly started the engine and had my friend come up and steer forward slowly while I pulled in the rode (30' boat weighing just 10K). We motored another 300' forward and I reset the hook and we were fine. The other time, I was alone and had a fairly new Mantus. It was a tight anchorage and I got another 180 wind shift. I nearly backed into a dock. I started the engine, locked the wheel and put it just above idle and forward. I ran to the bow and pulled in the anchor. I was really lucky I got out of that one. In both of those cases, I had no time or distance to put down a second anchor but I do think that being in forward gear gives enough forward force that it allows you to pull the boat up to the anchor. Of course, that probably only works in winds under 20 or 25.
Great subject! Thank you!!
Thank you for sharing this with us. I do agree -- this is kind of not talked about very much, or at least peripherally in my experience. It sounds like you handled things very well in both of those cases. I like your second idea for singlehanding. I wondered about leaving it in forward at a slow idle like that. I will try it next time in a controlled environment when I have lots of time, daylight and searoom. Thanks for the anecdotes. These comments have become quite a good primer on this subject. I have learned a lot from them already. So thank you!
Hi Steve! My two cents worth would be a modern anchor (spade, rocna mantus...), put out a 7:1 scope (chain and rode would be good), a snubber of about a boat length ( I am not too sure where you attached your snubber). That has worked for me. If you drag then a combination of an electric windlass and slowly motoring up to reset would likely be the most reliable option for a solo sailor. Keep the videos coming and hopefully we can connect on our boats in the PNW!
Hey Bill. Thanks for the tips. I have a 20 kg Bruce anchor and 200 feet of chain. 7:1 -- ok that's a good suggestion. Snubber of a boat length -- ah ok, good idea. I had it very short, on deck even, just to take the load off of the windlass. I can easily make it longer to add some stretch and absorption into the system. When you say "slowly motoring up" do you meet with the anchor still on the bottom? Or haul it up first, then motor forward? Awesome mate. Sure mate, let me know if you are up here. You can email me at sdemaio@shaw.ca and we can connect for a beer if our schedules mesh.
Get a bigger anchor bud and lay more rogue. A seven to one ratio to be on the safe side is what I was taught in the bareboat ASA sailing course that I took last year. Thank you for the video. Cheers!
Thanks mate. 7:1 -- thank you for that! All the best.
I live overlooking Garden Bay and noticed your strap ladders hanging off your deck having previously viewed your video on them.
I don’t know what more you could have done.
Garden Bay has poor holding with a smooth rock bottom and we have seen many boats drag their anchor and end up at the yacht club.
I don’t think more rode, snubbers or a different anchor would have helped.
Your comments on the Venturi effect are accurate.
Only advice I have would be to consult with the Sailing Directions issued by Canadian Hydrographic which would have told you there is poor holding in Garden Bay.
Oh wow. Thank you sooo much for chiming in hear and reporting back! That is very generous and thoughtful of you!
Yes, I mostly sail singlehanded so I have the ladders there in the event that go over the side -- I have a least a chance to get back aboard. I also clip short with my tether. Nevertheless, they do provide some comfort that I might be able to get back aboard.
That is very interesting regarding Garden Bay holding being poor. I looked in two other guidebooks I have and there was no mention of it. Thank you for pointing out that the sailing directions can be a good source of information.
Ah ok, thanks for that confirmation on the venturi effect. The winds were much stronger in the bay than were in the forecast. I have experienced that phenomenon a few times in other places as well.
Again, thank you for taking the time and consideration to track me down and let all of us know the facts on garden bay. That was very considerate of you. Thanks from myself and all of us. All the best.
Except for undersized ground tackle the number one reason for anchor drag is a lack of scope. ( assuming your anchor was set well to begin with) sometimes the anchorage’s bottom just won’t hold. And it’s just not a good spot to be in heavy winds. But of course local knowledge is the only way to know this until it happens. As charts and cruising guides won’t always give you that info. But asking local sailors will. Check the forecast before going to sleep maybe your 5 to 1 scope needs to be 8 to 1 or more. If the forecast is predicting a change on wind direction or the charts show a large current through the anchorage when tides change. You need to determine is the bottom going to hold your anchor should you spin 90 degrees from when you set it even good anchors will drag a bit when the need to reset but what if your originally anchored on a sloping bottom in 40 feet but your anchor is set with your rode going toward the shallows well it set really good when. You backed down on it and your scope is 5 to one in 40 ft water. Over knight the wind changes 180 degrees and your anchor spins comes out and dragged but now your boat has swung out into deeper water below it and the bottom. Is sloping away and your dragging the anchor as it’s trying to reset as the bottom is falling away the scope angle of your rode is now not alaong the bottom but pulling the shank up the tip of your anchor won’t dig and as it drags the deeper the water gets and the more your scope angle increases. Now likely this situation will allow you to drag away from rocks or shore but it could be in an area with a bridge or other boats you’re dragging towards. So sometimes a second anchor or Bahamas mooring setup (2 anchors set one in each direction with your rode attached between them. So your anchor is set regardless of how your boat turns.
I have learned these things both the hard way and from the wisdom of others. Sometimes just setting the anchor and with the proper scope for current conditions and depth is NOT enough alone. You need to know if your anchor will drag into deeper water or the bottom material simply won’t let your anchor bite again. Local knowledge is key. This video shows some great examples but a second anchor may help or even just more scope maybe enough.
Thank you sooo much for this excellent and detailed comment. We can all learn from you mate. I am very interested in this "Bahamas" mooring set up. From a practical standpoint, how would suggest setting it up? How have you done it in the past? Do you use a dinghy to get the second anchor set? Or a combination of the boat, and the dinghy? If you are in 30 feet of water, say, would you connect the second rode about 30 feet from the first anchor, and leave yourself 30 feet on the rode to the second anchor? Then add, say, 6:1 or 7:1 from the connection point? I would love to hear how other sailors accomplish this. Can it be executed in high wind? Or do you have complete it in advance? Thanks again for your great comment.
@ I which I could explain it in detail Ina a comment but thankfully someone else with RUclips channel has done a detailed explanation on how it works. And how to setup the change and the two (or even three anchors.) m.ruclips.net/video/pOilmQn8TBA/видео.html
to me it sounds like you did it right. One of the usual techniques is to take a second anchor out on your dinghy but I saw the dinghy was still lashed on deck. Launching it in a strong blow would be it's own challenge and you mentioned that you didn't think you could effectively row upwind with it blowing that hard. Another option is to increase the scope if you have room to leeward. An option if you don't have searoom is to run your engine to take the stress off the rode. That is a technique that has been used to ride out extremely strong storms. What I would consider the last option if you have run out of sea room is to run the engine to slack the rode, then raise the anchor. With your setup you would need to run back and forth between the bow and the cockpit until the anchor is raised. Then you can motor around until the wind abates and try to set your anchor again. From the video it looked like you were dragging anchor toward a lee shore. While not ideal and a bit scary, the water tends to get shallower which effectively increases your scope. The topology up here in the PNW means we get a lot of steep drop offs that can lead to you being left with a dangling anchor if you are getting blown off shore. But all of this does lead to sleepless nights.
One issue with steep drop off is that they may slope more steeply than your scope!
Same here in Scotland
Thank you for this very thoughtful and detailed coaching comment. Very much appreciated. I was worried about the launch of the dinghy, and I was also concerned that I may not be able to row against that wind and thus cause a whole new challenge of getting back upwind with the anchor in the dinghy. I had about 150 feet to a boat downwind -- and about 60 or 70 feet of swing room to a series of docks to starboard. I could have added some more rode to the chain, subject to the swing room to starboard.
Running the engine and helming to keep stress off the chain I think could have been a viable option if I ran out of searoom.
I considered running the engine to create slack in the chain to raise it -- I have done this in less wind, and, your point about running back and forth is valid. In the moment, I was worried in might be futile... and that I could waste an hour trying it, and thus drift further downwind. I also fussing about the anchor coming off the bottom and the boat taking off downwind and losing sea room in the attempt. There was a lee shore -- and there were boats downwind as well.
Thank you for this comment. I am, and I am sure others, are learning a lot here. Thanks mate.
I am inexperienced and in a Catalina 22. I have wondered what to do in that situation. With an outboard. I was thinking I could motor in a swing direction to port side. Then drop 2nd anchor. Perhaps motor slowly in reverse? Wondering if I could use this method to pull anchor in strong wind when solo. Your thoughts. Thank you .
Sound like the could work. I motored slowly forward about 120 feet and then dropped the second anchor. I had 200 feet of heavy chain out so i judged that the risk was low of getting my chain fouled in the propellor. I have and others have used the motor to take tension off the rode in a wind to haul it in. I have used and "on/off" tactic. Another viewer has used a slow forward tactic. Give those a try and report back -- we would all love to hear how it went. All the best mate.
my worry would be to foul the prop during that motoring forward. I guess if you can see the line and it was chain..
Roger that mate. Definitely a risk. The chain is quite heavy - a quarter inch in diameter or so. You can't see a thing, however.... pitch black, blowing like 'ell,,,, Thanks for the comment.
Do you use a snubber? Cant see one on the video.
I use a snubber on the chain. You can see it at 0:34 at the top of the screen.
Cant see it@@respecttherisk2022
I would have done the same.
Though perhaps engaged the motor to take off the strain. Though diesels don’t like running slow for long periods.
Questions
What anchors.
How did you set the anchor.
Either you had poor holding, or you need a bigger better anchor.
Roger that mate. Thanks for the chiming in here. I'm learning a lot from the comments. I set the anchor at about 1000 RPM in reverse. It was still moving at 2000 RPM, though in the moment, it was calm and I was not expecting such wind. Perhaps I should have been more aggressive in my setting of it. In the end, the main anchor did finally hold and there was no tension on the second in the morning. (though the wind did finally ease off around 2:00 in the morning.
If I am expecting wind I drop my Rocna Vulcan and a Fortress then set the Rocna keeping the other slack. When set I pull in most of the the slack on the Fortress and cleat it. If the main anchor drags more than a few feet the Fortress will then "set" as well. The Rocna is about 3X oversized for my boat all chain and the Fortress 2X with 15 foot of chain. So far in up to 30 knot winds the Fortress has only started to set.
Hey mate -- thank you for that. I really like that idea. I think that could have worked well here if I had the foresight. I wasn't expecting the wind. The forecast was for 15 knots out in the Strait -- but I suspect there was also a Venturi effect from the mountains and the wind accelerated through the anchorage. (I had neve been there before). Thank you for sharing this idea. All the best mate.
I would be interested to know what type of anchor you had down? , a modern design or older type. The problem with deploying a second anchor is the possibility of the two getting tangled together
Thanks for the comment mate. I have a 20 kg Bruce with 200' of quite heavey chain. Yeah for sure, I did have some concern with that as well, though it seemed I needed to take the risk in the moment to add security to the system.
I have both a rocna & a mantus on my boat, both offer good bite, but the mantus, in my opinion is no1
Firstly, I run my storm anchor as my main anchor. For my 17 ton boat that means an 80kg/175lb anchor with 115m/380ft of chain. It never drags. I let out alot of scope. Often 10:1, sometimes in shallow water 15:1.
Once you are dragging, your choices are: engage motor, let out more scope or re-anchor. A second anchor is seldom helpful, especially singlehanding. You could have buoyed your chain and dumped it and re-anchored with your second anchor.
How big and what is your anchor?
Thank you for this detail mate. Very much appreciated. 10:1 -- wow -- ok, 15:1 in shallow! Ok, that is really good to know. I have a 20 kg Bruce -- so 44 lb anchor and 200 feet of quite heavy chain. What do you mean by "buoyed your chain and dumped it?" Does that mean, haul it in and redeploy? (or does it mean, just let it go over the side with a marking and retrieval buoy to be retrieved later?) I haven't heard that terminology before. Thank you for chiming in here. I am learning a lot.
@@respecttherisk2022 sometimes you have to escape an anchorage quickly so tie a fender to the end of the chain and dump the whole lot out into the water. Then you can come back and retrieve it later. Even with a power windlass sometimes it takes too long to pull the chain up, so better to let it all out. I usually tie the biggest fender I have to the chain just outside the bow roller with a prussik loop if the line won't go through the chain links.
Your anchor is too small. I use that tables in most anchor manufacturers literature and I go to the storm size and go up a size or two from there. I am a weight weenie and my boat qualifies as an ultralight. I go to great lengths to keep weight down, but this is the one place where I will go heavy, and much heavier than most people. I haven't dragged since I evolved this large anchor policy, and I sleep very well. I never even think about it.
The Bruce is very outdated and my experience is that the new generation anchors are considerably better than the Bruce. The only exception is the Delta anchor which is very poor and worse than your Bruce. I would look for a second hand anchor on eBay.
I have been sailing, both cruising and professionally for 40 years and have just over 200,000 miles, 11 transatlatics and 4 times across the Pacific. I have cruising experience in the Arctic and tropics and most places in between.
@@deerfootnz Hey thanks for this great level of detail and your clarification. That is a very interesting idea that I have never heard of before re dumping the anchor. Thank you for that coaching Captain! What anchor would you suggest? What do you have on your boat? My Contessa 38 is 16,000 lbs empty. I need to look at one of these charts. I like the way you are thinking on this.
Wow mate! That is one VERY impressive sailing resume! Bravo! Thank you for sharing all of this with me and all of us. We can learn a lot from you! Thank you soooo much!
@respecttherisk2022 I have an 80kg Rocna. The size recommended for my boat my Rocna is half that. I like the spade, ultra & mantus anchors. All of the new generation anchors are good with the exception of the Delta. SV Panope has a great channel on RUclips with extensive testing. He is from somewhere near you.
150 ft. motoring over your chain sounds scary as well. I guess I have never heard of someone hitting their anchor chain, its heavy. To answer your question, electric windlass with a remote at the helm with a digital readout of the length would be nice, expensive I'm sure. (I can spend your money easily.) Is it possible to motor and get the boat in the original position and then pull in the windless and reposition the anchor? Then set the 2nd anchor.
Thanks for chiming in with ideas and coaching mate! Much appreciated. Yeah, motoring over chain is definitely not ideal.... it is quite heavy chain. Believe me, I was asking myself about the manual windlass as this was going on for sure. Yes -- I have had to motor forward before to ease the tension on the windlass -- in the wind, the boat loses way very fast so there is a quite a dance running back and forth to achieve that. I did not try it in this case, thinking it might be futile in such strong wind.... and that I could be wasting time, and sea room while I attempted it.... Thanks for the comment mate.
1) Learn to set an anchor properly, anchors will set 9/10 times easily but 1/10 they won't, bad holding, a crab trap or other junk on bottom can intefere with holding 2) get a modern anchor, slightly oversize your choice for added ease of mind; these are two things I would do before dropping a 2nd anchor at night in 30 knts. any modern, correctly sized anchor should hold easily in 30 knts with minimal dragging.
Thanks for the thoughtful and detailed comment mate. I think I may have been a bit cavalier in the setting of this anchor -- I only took it up to 1,000 RPM so there is certainly an action item for me there. It's a Bruce 20 kg anchor.
Did you get any sleep?
After I deployed the second anchor -- and the wind calmed down around 2:00 am, the boat went forward and sat more comfortably. So I did get some sleep after that.