Just to be clear on some points. I did find a Ban family document. Dean is off with some info here, in fact, the document does say that the pronunciation used to be O-Tomo, it then changed to Tomo and then it finally became Ban. So no you are wrong on that point Dean. It does say it is a Tomo scroll, but that they changed the usage to Ban, which is correct. Christa claims the use of that Kanji traditionally used for Ban and also the "door of the fierce" version. I never found 'door of the fierce' in Japan. I also tried to find any mention of Togakure and i could not anywhere. Which is non-conclusive. But has to be weighed against all other factors.
and what happened first antony. did chris tell you otomo became tomo became ban became tomou or did you tell chris and then he agreed with it? i'm gonna say i'm pretty sure chris didn't tell you first and you found it in history, unless kawakami had it on his website first
HA DEAN YOU funny you think i am not speaking English i am speak ENGLISH THIS what PEOPLE say WHEN THEY DON'T TO HEAR IT SORRy YOUR TO HEAR IT STOP WHAT YOU DOING IN the scroll he found go back like month ago or two or so that o toma ryu change it name to tomo ryu the go back to o- toma ryu witch is a letget school i follow mr cummin work verey will you didn't want her that he found ninjto in history there three video on that whie up and stop the conflicted don't any go to keep it up
Dean can you make a video on the following point please - this is an honest question. "Hatsumi has shown Togakure scrolls to people" - Now you have avoided a major point here and have misled people in your video. Hatsumi has Togakure scrolls written by Takamatsu. Is this correct? If so then that is not proof. If the scrolls were written by Takamatsu then that is not proof. Proof has to pre-date Takamatsu. As far as i am aware ALL of the Togakure scrolls were complied by Takamatsu and are in Takamatsu's handwriting. Is this correct? the 'story on the grapevine' is that Takamatsu was taught all schools by oral tradition and the only scrolls are those complied byTakamatsu himself. This would date ALL the scrolls to the 1950/60's. That makes them modern. Yet you talked as if that proves its historical accuracy? Which it does not. It does not work like that. Or are you saying Hatsumi has pre-meji scrolls that say Togakure and have a date. The difference is massive! Please make a video on this clearing it up. Have you seen the scrolls? yes or no. Or has it been confirmed that they are pre-meji?
togakure ryu is on the gyokko ryu scrolls. kacem has confirmed premeiji gyokko ryu scrolls. soya shinji has stated he found records of the founders of togakure ryu. the book kakutogi no rekishi states togakure ryu, and gyokko ryu appear in a periodical from the 1800s.
Antony, there is nothing stopping you from going to the Hombu on your next trip to Japan and requesting Soke to show you the scrolls for historical research purposes. That should be pretty easy to do, right?
Everyone is the "truth police"; as people have a duty to engage in critical thinking and calling out people that lie or promote untrue or dangerous concepts. Thumbs up.
well if you trained in it for more than 30 years you would realise it is Beyond the scope of one man to write something with that much depth, the lord of the rings is a kids book in comparison! even your beloved Antony is Fucking clueless.
+Devoti it was an analogy not evidence. but for evidence I have 80% of all the Densho and have experience in training in them since 1983 (and several real fights) so I have a good Idea of the concepts techniques and principles in there. as for "Tolkien made a whole language and parts of several others" yes kids make up their own languages but that only works if someone knows the language, and it is not a meta modal like Martial arts that has to work in real life. I mean the bible was all made up fantasy too and people use that as evidence but it has nothing to do with reality! and LOTR is about as real as the bible.
+Devoti What you said just proves how little you know! "If you have a scroll that's, say, 500 years old or something, describing those exact techniques" pathetic!! Martial arts "Techniques are in a fluid state of Evolution. Densho are snapshots but they are constantly rewritten by the Soke usually are the Techniques improve this is normal "SMH" on top of that ninjutsu techniques are secret! duh! so are not written down! duh! all you get in the Densho is "There is a 口伝 Kuden" and the is a transmission by word of mouth or physically. you are wasting my time with this, you know nothing not even the basics. so off you trot to your make believe world I am not interested if you think it is real or not as you are irrelevant. a typical techniques in a Densho goes somthing like this .Tori performs a Tsuki uke performs a Gyaku. There is a 口伝 Kuden. that's it pal! the point is you have to be shown the technique be a teacher. you cannot get it by reading a Densho they a F****** secret! Duh!
+Devoti Burden of proof? sorry nothing has to be proved to you! it is secret you are not supposed to know. if you want to know then join a Bujinkan class otherwise talk to the hand. your hero Anthony he could not take the training. so sad too bad. he will never understand now. he had access to it and whimped out hard luck.
the title is right who made you the Ninjutsu Police?? everyone else is wrong and you are always right????? Can you stop with the constant negativity. I'm really sick of all this backwards and forwards between people now, Its like listening to kids. My dads bigger than your dad. Make a stand be positive be nice to each other. I dont think anyone really has the exact correct answer to any of the issues in Ninijutsu.
+TheLateScottBaio Im not saying I'm calling anyone fake or saying they are lying. I have studied a number of martial arts and was a member of the Bujinkan back in the 80's which really ages me, but I'll admit I'm in no position criticize anyone. But watching the various videos its all starting to get really childish. I like watching videos by various people but I really wish everyone would get along. We are all adults.
I NEED HELP! to the late scott baio or anybody for that matter, i remember a classic 1950s movie chronicling the koga and iga battles and can't for the life of me remember the title
The Bujinkan and or Hatsumi have never presented anything that has been officially identified and authenticated, not that I care personally, it's all a bit silly really, but it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, so to speak.
Daniel McBain pretty sure I explained the nihon kobudo kyokai and nihon kobudo shinkokai don't deal with amalgamation so the bujinkan cannot be a member because it's not a single school but is a member of other organizations and it's documents have been reviewed by historians
Historians are not an authority that issues the official in the nation, it just can't be proven, simple as that bud. But whatever, just more silly ninja secret stuff in my eyes, couldn't care less, by no means am I saying these other organizational are any more legitimate, just that all are kind of stretching the truth and that includes the Bujinkan and the Genbukan and the Jinenkan and any other type of kan that may or may not be kanning it's way in the shadows. If Hatsumi could verify he would, by the actual governing body so to speak that is responsible for the task. I also do t care what you already said, I said today that superman borrowed my cape one day cause his had a stain on it and I hadn't used mine since nam. That is not accurate it's just a yarn, so is anything you say considering the source of alot of it not all of it but alot stems from an origin who has failed to officially been acknowledged, so perhaps chill out a bit
Daniel McBain they are not governing bodies you don't seem to understand what exactly those groups are for he is a member of other groups not those specific groups that you mentioned schools that he is the owner of have offshoots that are members of those specific groups he is teaching an amalgamation which is not allowed to be part of the groups. The government issued him the title of important cultural asset.
Just to be clear on some points. I did find a Ban family document. Dean is off with some info here, in fact, the document does say that the pronunciation used to be O-Tomo, it then changed to Tomo and then it finally became Ban. So no you are wrong on that point Dean. It does say it is a Tomo scroll, but that they changed the usage to Ban, which is correct. Christa claims the use of that Kanji traditionally used for Ban and also the "door of the fierce" version. I never found 'door of the fierce' in Japan. I also tried to find any mention of Togakure and i could not anywhere. Which is non-conclusive. But has to be weighed against all other factors.
MR CUMMIN MADE CLEAR that O-Tomo, was in the scroll so stop this madness the family change to tomo ryu
tomo isnt tomou antony. big difference.
blackswordshinobi you don't speak english or japanese don't bother commenting
and what happened first antony. did chris tell you otomo became tomo became ban became tomou or did you tell chris and then he agreed with it? i'm gonna say i'm pretty sure chris didn't tell you first and you found it in history, unless kawakami had it on his website first
HA DEAN YOU funny you think i am not speaking English i am speak ENGLISH THIS what PEOPLE say WHEN THEY DON'T TO HEAR IT SORRy YOUR TO HEAR IT STOP WHAT YOU DOING IN the scroll he found go back like month ago or two or so that o toma ryu change it name to tomo ryu the go back to o- toma ryu witch is a letget school i follow mr cummin work verey will you didn't want her that he found ninjto in history there three video on that whie up and stop the conflicted don't any go to keep it up
Dean can you make a video on the following point please - this is an honest question.
"Hatsumi has shown Togakure scrolls to people" - Now you have avoided a major point here and have misled people in your video. Hatsumi has Togakure scrolls written by Takamatsu. Is this correct? If so then that is not proof. If the scrolls were written by Takamatsu then that is not proof. Proof has to pre-date Takamatsu. As far as i am aware ALL of the Togakure scrolls were complied by Takamatsu and are in Takamatsu's handwriting. Is this correct? the 'story on the grapevine' is that Takamatsu was taught all schools by oral tradition and the only scrolls are those complied byTakamatsu himself. This would date ALL the scrolls to the 1950/60's. That makes them modern. Yet you talked as if that proves its historical accuracy? Which it does not. It does not work like that. Or are you saying Hatsumi has pre-meji scrolls that say Togakure and have a date. The difference is massive! Please make a video on this clearing it up. Have you seen the scrolls? yes or no. Or has it been confirmed that they are pre-meji?
togakure ryu is on the gyokko ryu scrolls. kacem has confirmed premeiji gyokko ryu scrolls. soya shinji has stated he found records of the founders of togakure ryu. the book kakutogi no rekishi states togakure ryu, and gyokko ryu appear in a periodical from the 1800s.
Antony Cummins Do you have a Grammar problem with the word "Compiled"? Beggars belief that an author has a grammar problem 😂😂😂
Antony, there is nothing stopping you from going to the Hombu on your next trip to Japan and requesting Soke to show you the scrolls for historical research purposes. That should be pretty easy to do, right?
Everyone is the "truth police"; as people have a duty to engage in critical thinking and calling out people that lie or promote untrue or dangerous concepts.
Thumbs up.
As Antony said, I think you need to prove that Takamatsu isn't made up ninja bullshit.
well if you trained in it for more than 30 years you would realise it is Beyond the scope of one man to write something with that much depth, the lord of the rings is a kids book in comparison! even your beloved Antony is Fucking clueless.
+Devoti it was an analogy not evidence. but for evidence I have 80% of all the Densho and have experience in training in them since 1983 (and several real fights) so I have a good Idea of the concepts techniques and principles in there. as for "Tolkien made a whole language and parts of several others" yes kids make up their own languages but that only works if someone knows the language, and it is not a meta modal like Martial arts that has to work in real life. I mean the bible was all made up fantasy too and people use that as evidence but it has nothing to do with reality! and LOTR is about as real as the bible.
+Devoti What you said just proves how little you know! "If you have a scroll that's, say, 500 years old or something, describing those exact techniques" pathetic!! Martial arts "Techniques are in a fluid state of Evolution. Densho are snapshots but they are constantly rewritten by the Soke usually are the Techniques improve this is normal "SMH" on top of that ninjutsu techniques are secret! duh! so are not written down! duh! all you get in the Densho is "There is a 口伝 Kuden" and the is a transmission by word of mouth or physically. you are wasting my time with this, you know nothing not even the basics. so off you trot to your make believe world I am not interested if you think it is real or not as you are irrelevant. a typical techniques in a Densho goes somthing like this .Tori performs a Tsuki uke performs a Gyaku. There is a 口伝 Kuden. that's it pal! the point is you have to be shown the technique be a teacher. you cannot get it by reading a Densho they a F****** secret! Duh!
+Devoti You do not know what Ninjutsu is! you just have a mistaken Idea. this is pointless.
+Devoti Burden of proof? sorry nothing has to be proved to you! it is secret you are not supposed to know. if you want to know then join a Bujinkan class otherwise talk to the hand. your hero Anthony he could not take the training. so sad too bad. he will never understand now. he had access to it and whimped out hard luck.
Can you dodge bullets like Ashida Kim? Why are all of you so alike?
Uhm Dean, if your "Thing" is yellow, I'd be going to see a doctor about that! :)
it was the night i spent with marge simpson i bet
linus torvalds of karate
What system do you study?
The truth is the light but some prefer to stay lost in the darkness. For most of these frauds it's all about making money.
the title is right who made you the Ninjutsu Police?? everyone else is wrong and you are always right????? Can you stop with the constant negativity. I'm really sick of all this backwards and forwards between people now, Its like listening to kids. My dads bigger than your dad. Make a stand be positive be nice to each other. I dont think anyone really has the exact correct answer to any of the issues in Ninijutsu.
+Colin Quinton www.coloradospringsninjutsu.com/Blog/Entries/2014/10/8_Legit_or_Fake.html
+TheLateScottBaio Im not saying I'm calling anyone fake or saying they are lying. I have studied a number of martial arts and was a member of the Bujinkan back in the 80's which really ages me, but I'll admit I'm in no position criticize anyone. But watching the various videos its all starting to get really childish. I like watching videos by various people but I really wish everyone would get along. We are all adults.
Colin Quinton yes and some of us are adults who don't live in a fantasy world where imaginary friends give us ninja schools
Colin Quinton I think he's doing pretty good, compared to his earlier videos.
Well said!
The channel: japanninjutsu..legit?
No
lmao it should be "Nihon no Ninjutsu." No one in Japan would call their country Japan, not even foreigners would say that word.
Mr. Allmighty Cornholio actually japanese coast guard ships say japan coast guard, and then have kaijo hoan cho written in kanji 海上保安庁
TheLateScottBaio That's intersting... but they don't say something like ｼﾞｬﾊﾟﾝ eh?
nope
I NEED HELP! to the late scott baio or anybody for that matter, i remember a classic 1950s movie chronicling the koga and iga battles and can't for the life of me remember the title
who was in it what was the style like? are you sure it was the 50s and not the 60s
The Bujinkan and or Hatsumi have never presented anything that has been officially identified and authenticated, not that I care personally, it's all a bit silly really, but it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, so to speak.
Daniel McBain yea but it has so...
TheLateScottBaio Nihon Kobudo Kyokai has authenticated what? Not trying to debate just curious
Daniel McBain pretty sure I explained the nihon kobudo kyokai and nihon kobudo shinkokai don't deal with amalgamation so the bujinkan cannot be a member because it's not a single school but is a member of other organizations and it's documents have been reviewed by historians
Historians are not an authority that issues the official in the nation, it just can't be proven, simple as that bud. But whatever, just more silly ninja secret stuff in my eyes, couldn't care less, by no means am I saying these other organizational are any more legitimate, just that all are kind of stretching the truth and that includes the Bujinkan and the Genbukan and the Jinenkan and any other type of kan that may or may not be kanning it's way in the shadows. If Hatsumi could verify he would, by the actual governing body so to speak that is responsible for the task. I also do t care what you already said, I said today that superman borrowed my cape one day cause his had a stain on it and I hadn't used mine since nam. That is not accurate it's just a yarn, so is anything you say considering the source of alot of it not all of it but alot stems from an origin who has failed to officially been acknowledged, so perhaps chill out a bit
Daniel McBain they are not governing bodies you don't seem to understand what exactly those groups are for he is a member of other groups not those specific groups that you mentioned schools that he is the owner of have offshoots that are members of those specific groups he is teaching an amalgamation which is not allowed to be part of the groups. The government issued him the title of important cultural asset.
you say truth, research the subject before you say anything about it, one question do you learn Ninjutsu at all, if so who by