I'm shocked at how level headed, fair, introspective, and likeable you are to watch as an atheist. I appreciate this channel as a Christian and I'm subbing to binge all of your content. Thank you! Hearing you talk about how his sway over the people unnerved you is accurate and correct.
I’m a Christian too and couldn’t agree more. His “Church is a good thing” attitude and being very respectful yet intellectual and mindful of his biases is something I resonate highly with.
Well that's not the intention of Pastor Steven. He is all about Glory to God. I attend because of Jesus and the deep message taught from the Bible. If people are drawn for that reason at least he has their ears and it's up to them what they do with that. I think all Churches have people that attend for the wrong reason...don't you agree??? how is that avoidable???
I'm a former Elevation Church worship leader. While I'm still a Christian, I'm no longer a follow of Elevation Church and have felt/shared some of the same tensions you're expressing here. I'd be open to sit down and have a conversation regarding what it's like being a part of Elevation from the inside. I appreciate your open mind and willingness to give a fair and honest review!
Hey, I have a question about their worship. It's a small thing that I noticed but some of their songs kind of seem to be more focused on the follower a bit more than they are on God. Is there some truth to this or am I wrong?
@@lightsinthedarkness Hey, I don’t live in America or go to Elevation Church, but isn’t the fact that God gave His only Son to die for us a huge sign of His love and care for us? So wouldn’t it make sense for some songs to focus on how much God loves us, cares for us, and wants good things for us?
@@merlumbien I might have explained it wrong. It's not the "he saves US" that's in the songs that feel off to me. Those I am more than fine with. But there are certain lyrics that are just more person centered and focused. Like "Another Stone" kinda has a feeling like all that God does is serve the people with some of its lyrics. "Faithful Then/Faithful Now" though has a good message, the lyrics kind of create a sense like God is Faithful to ME, and if I correctly remember* there's not even one stanza that says that I will be faithful back (* - I might be completely wrong since I am going from memory).
@@lightsinthedarkness I think I know what you mean. I just looked at the lyrics, and maybe that's why these songs haven't been translated into many other languages. (I live in Germany, and there are many songs from America or other countries that are either sung in English or with a German translation. Well-known songs that have been translated into ten or even more languages.) From what I can see in these songs, there doesn’t seem to be anything in them that we couldn’t also find in the Bible. I understand your perspective, that there’s a certain undertone suggesting that God exists for us-and we definitely need to be careful with that because it's actually the other way around. But it’s also true that God sent His Son as the lowest servant to us (even though we are the ones who should be serving Him). And regarding the song “Another Stone”: even though He, as God, didn’t have to do it, He still promises us things that we can expect to happen (not just hope for, because God stands by His promises). As for the song "Faithful Then / Faithful Now," it makes sense to sing about God's faithfulness, as He has always been and will always be faithful. Sadly, we can’t say the same about ourselves, so it would be wrong to write or sing that. However, I agree with you that including a line about how we should strive, with God’s help, to be faithful too (even though not everyone will always succeed as long as we’re still in this world) would be a good addition.
@@merlumbien thanks for understanding me. Ultimately you are correct that it is mostly just undertones and aren't directly bad, but I still feel weird abut them because I've seen many of their songs have this similar undertone to the point where I started to feel off about most of them and became weary.
Hey man. You just popped into my RUclips feed and I’ve watched a few videos. I am a Christian and love Jesus just like you loved him. I’ve fought back tears while watching. I’m sorry you lost Jesus. Your videos show you’re a genuine person seeking truth. I know you believe what you believe but I pray your faith is restored. Love you brother.
John 6:39 “And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.” 💛
Out of context. This passage is referring to the Jews who previously listened to the voice of God through the prophets and who are now believing Jesus. Thus of that generation they will not be taken out of his hand of those who listened and learned. This is not a once saved always saved or calvinist proof text.
@@ethanchouinard4157 If that were the case, why wouldn't it say that? Why would Jesus say "all those he has given me" instead of "all the Jews from this generation he has given me?"
Sounds like the real problem here is what I call the Paul Atreides Effect. Even if the charismatic leader is genuinely good, the elevation of a flawed human being is itself hazardous.
Randomly stumbled across this video. As I’m enjoying it, I see a clip of an old video of mine 😂😂😂 Dr Brown is also a friend. Great job. It’s not what elevation does week to week, it’s the extra things that sneak in occasionally.
@@HeliocentricOfficialthanks for watching, let me know your thoughts. give me a shout if you ever want to do something. Would love for you to visit our church…. Rhythm church in Oceanside. Nowhere near the size of elevation but i think you may find it rather charming…
@RuslanKD 97%. I've been a believer for almost 20 years now and the teachings, aka 'sermons,' never dabble in hell or sin. I only ever heard a visiting pastor criticize LGTV once. Matter of fact, Furtick cautions against sin so little that there were several same-sex couples and even a handful of trannies that went more regularly than my family could!
I went from southern Baptist church and in a starting to question my faith started attending elevation. For the first few months it was good but the more I went I started researching more theology and I realized a few things that led me away from that church and denomination. 1. I have never, in the time I spent there, been taught about repentance during a service. Which is a very important part of Christianity as a whole. 2. The emphasis on anything held with respect is just not there, if you have been there have you ever been served communion? Prolly not. Have you ever witnessed a baptism that actually had reverence to it at the church? Prolly not. And all this rears its ugly head when they say “it’s not about religion, it’s about a relationship.” And my big issue with that is YOU STILL FOLLOW A RELIGION, of course we need to have a relationship with God BUT BROTHER STOP DISCARDING ALL OF THE RELIGIOUS PARTS OF OUR RELIGION. 3. It’s always about how great you are, how You can do this and You can do that and God will do this for you, almost like God is a vending machine. The essence of Christianity is to kill the old self and pick up your cross because JESUS OUR GOD DIED ON A CROSS AND ROSE THREE DAYS LATER. HE DEFEATED DEATH, GOD BECAME INCARNATE. THIS IS THE EMPHASIS NOT YOU YOU YOU. 4. Typically if you look at the type of person who attends, and I’m not throwing shade it was just an observation while I was there, they are usually Sunday morning Christians and even I was a Sunday morning Christian while attending. Giving God pretty much only 2 Hours a week. Since then I have left and joined the Eastern Orthodox Church where I have found the fullness of the faith. Anyways. God bless
Okay. Man I’m really impressed by your channel. Really refreshing. I was an atheist from 12 to 28 and became a Christian. My family didn’t believe in church or God and my dad really hated religion. And I wish when I was atheist I was like you. While we have disagreements I think I am going to enjoy your channel a lot. - Deacon James
@@christopheb.6121what’s your motive? what do you gain from mocking him? kinda rude imo further, if i asked you what’s the evidence that Gandalf really existed in a historic setting, how would you respond? your argument is very weak.
I was in a similar mega church, very heavy on production and has a similar small group they push people to be a part of. I was a student then and I quickly got really active. I invited a lot of fellow students, I've led groups, I've even gotten to a point where I'm also leading other leaders (we call it coaching). I loved it, it's like a community I never had. But I felt really trapped needing to always go to the next level. You attend, you join a group, you get trained to lead a group, you get trained to coach, all while there's a lot of expensive events you need to attend. I'm also into volunteering a lot and I eventually realized how much time and money I've been spending on these events and group meeting that I could've used in doing something that can actually cause change in the world right now. Imagine if the money people spend on registration fees are instead going to charities? That would be more of an impact than just having a concert with motivational speakers (basically just a service but in a bigger venue). But everything was just so hyped up in there that it's so hard to not have FOMO.
I’m a Christian and actually really enjoyed this video! You were very kind, respectful, yet truthful in many ways. I agreed with you in a lottt of ways. Thanks for your honesty! I pray churches today don’t deter you from the real true, amazing, living God!
Orthodox here. ☦️ You’re totally right about this type of church being an entry point, at least in my personal experiences. I was at one of these type churches before looking into theology/church history and converting into Orthodoxy. We appreciate you Jared, keep it up! 👍🏻
They’re really good for evangelism of the basics of Christianity as a whole. I think (emphasis on think, I’m just a layman) the Holy Spirit does work there and helps people to trust in Christ and try to be good Christians which at which point I THINK God has mercy based on knowledge and heart. The Gospel is being preached, at the very least, which is amazing.
Be honest with us, do you really think that Eastern Orthodox don't have issues of their own? We're all sinners and fall short from the glory of God. And yes the Church Fathers are a very important for church history, and I say this as a Protestant. God bless 🙏🏻
@@ChronicAndIronic whether short or long, everyone falls and needs our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. You conflating all 'mega churches' like Mormons? Very interesting and high and mighty of you.
Former "Elevator" from the late 00s/early 10s. I relate so much to you being bothered but unable to explain why. It's in the uncanny valley between church and cult. It's like, it's as much of a prosperity gospel church, a personality cult, a bald for-profit endeavor, etc., as it could possibly be without ever handing you enough ammo to definitively accuse it of being any of those things. Almost as if someone knows exactly how far they can step without crossing the line. Elevation got me going back to church. But it isn't quite a church. But it did get me into a great small group. But at the same time the group leader had his problems and wouldn't have made a very good pastor. But at the same time we did a lot of service, and that was spiritually beneficial. But at the same time much of the service (and much of the money too) is just what's required to "put on the show". And while nobody makes you, if you show up to do it, the leaders will let you run yourself into the ground with 12+ hour days volunteering. It happened to my brother-in-law and my small group leader and some other people I knew. I must admit, when the church is spending tens of thousands of dollars on laser lights and smoke machines, it's hard to keep up your classic Protestant disdain of gold chalices and vestments. And when you know people who are volunteers/staff who get recruited to stand up first and get baptized so other people will more easily answer the altar call... and when you know that staff and interns get initiated by hazing, and that the pastor is surrounded by yes-men and his salary is a trade secret (but don't worry, it's fine -- it's determined by a "board of overseers" who happen to be... other megachurch pastors)... all this takes the shine off what is already an extremely well-produced but otherwise mediocre rock concert and a weekly sermon with lots of emotion and the actual depth of a puddle. Anyway, I got too bored to continue showing up after the small group disbanded and then after Pastor Steven suddenly adopted weird charismatic mannerisms and built his infamous house. I started going to a small Methodist church which was pretty nice, we had pews with velvet cushions and sang out of hymnals. Then learned some more things and ended up becoming Orthodox. Would my life be anything like it is without Elevation, I guess not. God works in mysterious ways.
Can you add specifics of what the “hazing” consisted of, please? Your comment really summarizes the sense I have from knowing someone who attended for many years, or that it shares many characteristics of a cult without going full tilt and raising too many fears and suspicions. Furtick freaks me out. I don’t trust him at all.
"I must admit, when the church is spending tens of thousands of dollars on laser lights and smoke machines, it's hard to keep up your classic Protestant disdain of gold chalices and vestments." Exactly LOL.
*17:36* _"...Steven furtick is probably the best preacher that I've ever seen."_ *-Jared **_Atheist Church Audit_* _"When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith would not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power."_ *- The Apostle Paul - 1 CORINTHIANS 2:1-5*
That bible quote is from a great preacher; I mean he made it into the Bible. He covers himself in humility, shows his vulnerability and thus triggers empathy and goodwill. At the same time, he uses this to sneak the authority to speak for God. Furtick does the same thing.
@@paulschlachter4313Furtick is humble and vulnerable? I’m surprised because it’s my sense he’s lashed out when people have questioned his earnings and spending, for example.
@@paulschlachter4313 To compare Steven Furtick to St. Paul is a great disservice to St. Paul, please forgive me for saying so. Furtick is a pompous heretic, St. Paul is not. You also discredit the many other Saints such as St. Paisios and St. Xenia of St. Petersburg that have been able to be so humble and of such great servitude to Christ, partaking in His very Essence and miracle-working.
I might be able to help you pinpoint what was off about. He is the star of the show, not Christ. Instead of humbly feeding people the Word of God, he makes it into a show where he’s the star
I've never attended Elevation in person, but I can tell you they prayed for my dying mother all the way in New Zealand and their sermons on Spotify have got me through some of the darkest times in my life.
@@jakesherron2390 Whether they're being misled or not is between them and God, though I do agree Furtick is a heretic. Ultimately, though, he kept this beautiful woman going, even if indirectly, and that does deserve its due diligence. That is an act which should be praised, even if it's one of few regarding Furtick.
First video I'm seeing of you, and you've shared a lot of interesting thoughts I can totally find myself in. The concern for a 'one leader style' church, the incredible charisma of pastor Steven, your thoughts on cult-ism, speaking things into existence, etc. It was honest, well-balanced and in my opinion often spot on. I've never been to Elevation physically, so it was intriguing to hear your experiences. I have listened to heaps of his sermons quite some years ago. Though many may attack him for it, I really like(d) the personal and practical aspect of his sermons. Sometimes Christians can be so focused on the all the theories and doctrines, but fail to actually let it transform their lives. Anyway, interesting vid!
I left elevation church after attending for 6 years. At the time, I would have told you that I left for reasons that have nothing to do with theology, but hindsight is 2020. (I left a year and a half ago). Like I saw another comment say, it’s not the week to week sermons that are the problem, though some are more problematic than others, it’s the subtle ways the theology has changed over the past 18 years of the churches life. One comment used the phrase cult of personality, and while I wouldn’t say that that is a comprehensive description, it is part of it. Like you said, Furtick is a great preacher. I don’t think anyone can deny that, but it’s the teaching aspect of the preaching that doesn’t quite add up. As to why I left, there were a lot of little things bothering me for a while, so when a bigger push came I walked away. I had been so afraid of leaving because of the people, the friends, I had within the church. So when some of these people turned their back on me, I had my excuse to run. And that’s why I was in denial that it was theology that pushed me away. It ultimately was, but I couldn’t admit that for the first year after leaving.
Furtick is not a great preacher. Now, if you want to say, he is great at preaching a prosperity man centered teaching, where the focus is heavily on you and himself than on God, than sure. That would be accurate. To say great preacher without a biblically sound explanation leads to implying that everything or almost everything spoken by him is sound teaching. It most certainly is not. He is eye candy mixed with being good at smooth speech and telling crowds what they enjoy hearing.
Thanks for the work that you do man! Keep it up! Every video is a treat and a small window into all these different communities that a lot of us don't have a chance to peek into :) It helps put things into perspective.
one thing that is always a red flag to me is when a church doesn't use a cross or have any Christian symbolism but instead use corpo logos. like Elevate. it just seems detached from religion.
I went to Elevation for about six months back in 2010-2011. What turned me off to the church very quickly was I saw Pastor Furtick in public and decided to say hello. From the moment I said hello, you could tell he did not want to be talking to me, that I was a bother to him, and he just wanted me to leave. That's not a pastor. That's a celebrity. I left the church within a couple of weeks knowing that the pastor doesn't care about his flock. He cares about fame and publicity. He could not be bothered with someone who went to his church. Someone that he is supposed to be shepherding. He clearly believes his flock is there to serve him, not the other way around.
"Goats and Salt" Welcome to the modern church, where the main attraction seems to be clowns feeding goats, and somehow, we’re calling it Christianity. It’s quite a spectacle. Week after week, we're watching entertainers dressed as pastors, tossing spiritual junk food to a crowd that doesn’t want the real gospel, just enough feel-good messages to soothe their itching ears. You know, the kind of sermons that 2 Timothy 4:3 warns us about-tailor-made to offend no one and entertain everyone. And these goats? They’re hooked, so addicted to the show that they’d rather sear their own consciences than confront the truth (1 Timothy 4:2). What has happened to the church? The gospel has been dragged through the mud and remade into a self-help seminar, a prosperity promise, and a pathway to personal success. And the enemy? He’s sitting back and laughing, watching this circus with pride. He doesn’t even have to work hard anymore-this new breed of false Christianity does the job for him. It makes a mockery of the cross, distorts the Word, and leaves people spiritually bankrupt while calling itself faith. It’s as if we’ve turned the sanctuary into a stage, and God’s truth into a performance. But God? He’s not impressed. He’s not entertained. While we might be amused by this freak show, He’s grieved. The Bible is clear: “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked” (Galatians 6:7). The very gospel that these clowns drag through the dirt is the same gospel that can save their souls. It’s heartbreaking, really. God loves them-even the clowns-and desires that none should perish (2 Peter 3:9). But make no mistake, God will not tolerate this forever. His judgment is real, and His patience, though great, is not infinite. And here we are, the real believers, standing amidst this chaos. What are we to do? We’re called to be the “salt of the earth” (Matthew 5:13), the preservers of the faith in a world that has lost its taste for truth. But what does salt do? It preserves, yes-but it also stings when applied to a wound. Our message, when faithfully preached, will cut through the lies and expose the idolatry in people’s hearts. And let’s be honest, that doesn’t make us popular. It’s not easy to stand up against the goats who have settled into their entertainment and comfort. Convincing them that they’re wrong, that they’re worshipping a false gospel, is no small task. But we have to do it. Why? Because we love God and we love what He loves. This isn’t about condemnation; it’s about salvation. If we truly care about people, how could we stand by silently while they teeter on the edge of eternal destruction? "Love does no harm to a neighbor" (Romans 13:10), and there is no greater harm than watching someone walk toward hell without a word of warning. It’s not loving to stay quiet-it’s heartless. To watch someone lose their soul for the sake of vanity, comfort, or entertainment, and say nothing? You’d have to despise them to be that indifferent. But we are called to love our neighbor as ourselves (Mark 12:31), and true love speaks the truth, even when it’s hard to hear. We don't warn people of judgment because we hate them, but because we know the severity of God’s justice and the greatness of His mercy. This is why we must guard the church. Paul warned us to watch out for “wolves in sheep’s clothing” (Matthew 7:15), and yet so many are too blind to see that these wolves are now running the show. It’s up to us to stand as gatekeepers of truth, to “contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 1:3). And yes, we may face resistance. Yes, we may be called old-fashioned, intolerant, or even hateful for refusing to bow to the cultural pressures of the day. But the reality is that we are preserving the very gospel that saves, and no matter how much resistance we face, we must stay faithful. Being salt means preserving the truth even when the world (and sadly, much of the church) doesn’t want to hear it. We must live and preach the gospel with boldness and conviction, knowing that it is the power of God for salvation (Romans 1:16). The goats may mock us, the clowns may continue their show, but we have a higher calling. We are ambassadors of Christ, entrusted with the message of reconciliation, and we cannot afford to water it down or hide it under the veil of entertainment. In the end, we’re not just saving souls from eternal damnation-we’re defending the purity of the gospel itself. The world may have turned the church into a circus, but God’s truth endures. His Word stands firm. And as long as we remain faithful, the true gospel will continue to convict, save, and transform lives.
As a pastor of a small church who loves his flock, I can honestly say that all pastors are human and will fail at being Christlike. There is only one true shepherd. Pray for your pastor and trust in the Lord.
So, as a Christian in my pov, steven was a decent preacher in 2010. He's leaned more and more into the prosperity gospel and said wildly heretical things, not every Sunday but once in a while. There's the problem he's so charismatic. Many just accept what he says, no problem, and it goes over their heads. That's scary because of how easy it can be to stray from God's Word. I mean, the man literally said, "I am God almighty!" And it was met with thunderous applause, and he never clarified or said an apology. To me that makes him dangerous.
There was a point where he started to get wide recognition and hanging out with TD Jakes and other prosperity gospel, charismatic types and suddenly began throwing their mannerisms and cadences into his sermons. It was so weird and jarring at the time, as if he was trying out a new persona to see if it got more hits.
@huntz0r oh I'm well aware, that's why I said 2010... around that time, he was doing his own thing, but the big dogs of the charismatics got around him, and now I'd say he's the main one lol
New Sub. This stuff is so vital - you are a treasure to find! Im just watching everything. Thank you for your work!!! You fill an important niche, hey ♡ I've had a million conversations with you in my head already, lol.😂
Bad vibes are hard to define and difficult to employ as a warning to others. Sometimes, vibes is all we have and that can be enough to save us from terrible experiences. Also, this church is all about the pastor. He stands alone in a huge stage, barely holds the Bible, parades himself around the church as the center of attention, and his picture is the cover of his book(s).
This was a great video- honest and charitable. I am not an Elevation member, but attended and worked at a similar church for many years. We left in the last couple years, after wrestling with the idea that these kinds of churches probably aren’t the best model for producing mature followers of Christ. We landed at a smaller PCA church, and feel much more at home, and truly can see that we are being more rigorously discipled, not only through the corporate gathering, but in the general life and community of the church. We feel seen and known, which, in my experience, doesn’t generally happen in these large, dimly lit churches, unless you make it into the inner circles. One of the last straws for us, was something you mentioned- the leadership using the “God said” line to promote whatever it was they were promoting, whether it was a huge building campaign (which never got off the ground, for a variety of reasons), or the promotion of the pastor’s son to senior pastor (also didn’t happen, due to the pastor being caught in a gross sexual abuse scandal). When “God said “, it makes it very hard to ask questions without feeling like a person doubts God. I’m a more mature Christian, but I was furious that people were being manipulated spiritually, and we knew our time there was over. Elevation seems to be following the pattern of many megachurches before them and I pray they pay attention so they don’t experience the same disastrous fate.
when your friend mentioned the repetition of the congregation singing during worship and it feeling like indoctrination.. my mind went to revelation 4:8 - each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. day and night they never stop saying: "'holy, holy, holy is the lord god almighty,’ who was, and is, and is to come." ..which i would say is done to emphasize what's being said rather than having any cultish undertones. but really enjoyed the video - it's always interesting to hear other perspectives.
I can respect your comments and concerns. Your review was creative fun to watch and funny. I think it’s very healthy to be skeptical when first attending a new Church. I actually might have felt the same concerns myself. I'm always a skeptic by nature. Pastor Steven is so passionate and I was worried about all the things you brought up . I now attend Elevation Church most Sundays and am glad I dug deep to feel confident with my choice. I always keep a careful eye open to anything I feel is wrong of course and that is healthy (loyalty and trust to God not any man). I can tell you after a very deep dive, you'd see how much Pastor Steven Furtick has matured and grown as a teacher of God's Word. I'm not new to the Bible or being a Christian and feel I'm very aware and careful of red flags. I even began to believe some negative and unfair criticism on some other RUclips channels...so much so that I took a break from Elevation. But after great thought and prayer, I came full circle with no concerns about being in a "cult" in any sense of the word. Most RUclipsrs that bash him are very decietful and take thing out of context (clickbait)...people believe them and don't do their own homework (Some Christains just love to throw stones, sadly). I'm confident in my choice and would advise anyone reading this to listen to Pastor Steven Furticks most recent sermons and decide for yourselves! (dont just believe hateful people....this channel seems fair and I didn't take offense at all...because I know the truth ps What's mindblowing to me is that an atheist gave the fairest review of my Church and Pastor while the "Christian" channels just manipulated and lied....so thanks for being honest!
Orthobro, here. Please keep doing these. Unbelievable quality for a relatively low number of subscribers (so far!). If you are ever in the Greenville, SC area, please let me know! We have a great parish here you would probably be interested to visit.
Christian here. First time watching a video on this channel. I was entertained and impressed. This was a GREAT video. Really love the fact that you are critiquing fairly with a more than fair criteria. Hats off. You have a new subscriber👍🏾 PS - Love your taste in music. 🤘🏾
I am a southern Baptist Pastor. You’re the first channel that RUclips has ever recommended to me of an atheist format. Kudos to you sir! How did you fall from the faith may I ask? Hope you are well
I love your channel man. I've been exploring different churches during this year because they are neat and exploration is fun, so finding someone doing it more hardcore like you was a treat! Keep it up dude, this is great. //Dude exploring Christianity
Hey Jared, I somehow stumbled upon your video and was surprised that you are an atheist even though you have studied theology. I'm saddened by this but can understand why - especially when there are so many scammers who hold the title of preachers and how some Christians can come down really hard on others in sin. I think as Christians, while we have to be truthful about sinful behaviors, we ought to love and be gracious to people. Jesus was the same whenever he met a sinner where they were and tells them to sin no more. I'm unsure where you are in life at the moment and what else is holding you back from faith in Christ, but i will be praying for your salvation. I think you're a genuine guy and if you continue to sincerely search for truth, Jesus will meet you where you are. I grew up in a Christian family but wasn't saved until in my 20s. Familiarity with the scriptures alone don't save. It is an encounter with God that produces full belief in Him that we are saved. This encounter is different for everyone but once you meet Him, you cannot look back. It is impossible to do so knowing Jesus is real and that he is God. Keep on searching, Jared. Don't give up.
As an Apologetics teacher who deeply believes in the validity of the Bible, I have to give you major credit for this video. This is the first video of yours I’ve seen, but man this was awesome. You were respectful, inquisitive, critical, and thoughtful. I fully expected you to just rip into Elevation (and I kinda wanted you to tbh) but you were level headed and open. This is a great video & thorough analysis. You’ve gained a subscriber!
Hi Geoff. 56 year old Christian here from South-Africa. Thank you, I really enjoy your videos and the kind way you discuss things. I'm cautious of people that overpower others with their personality. Check out At Boshoff. He is the main pastor of one of the biggest churches in South-Africa, the CRC. They also do the campus thing. He reminds me of Steven Furtick in many ways.
The day will come when the Orthodox don't excited every time someone acknowledges our existence, but it is not this day! Also, commenting for the algorithm.
I love that you do this. I'm ex-ev + typically can't step into a church without getting disregulated (dys- ?) but I'm still fascinated by the goings on in Christendom so your thoughtful + deliberately unhateful takes are much appreciated. On the subject of why it's so off-putting that the pastor is so good at what he does.... I went to a megachurch until my twenties, so my perspective from experience is that these sorts of pastors are celebrities. They end up being outside the range of what we consider normal people, and the effect that produces is kind of a slow burn. At first you're just impressed, maybe think that you're glad someone so all-around great is in a position of power, but slowly they become an authority that usurps your own self-agency. While you might agree that they could've said something better or didn't do X right, what you admire starts being the very fact that they don't do things quite like they should. It makes them seem more human. You think, "he really is just a normal guy." And somehow that solidifies him further as an "other" that you defer to. Kind of Trump: The Early Years (sorry to anyone that might offend). I think they just end up being such a big part of the way you think, to an unhealthy extent.
27:45 I think a lot of modern evanglicals are unwittingly taught to equate being a Christian with feeling soaring emotions during a sermon; but then life hits and things are hard and frustrating and they go to church and they don't feel it anymore; and they think "oh i don't believe this anymore" but that's not what faith is. Faith is what you act out in the world, it is a commitment. I don't often hear that emphasized at big rock concert churches, i think it's basically a way to sell a kind of entertainment to people more than it is genuine religion; even though it has components of genuine faith and I'm sure many people there are believers. ❤️🙏 I guess I just see the loudness and showmanship of it to be a bit counter to the message of participating in repentance and prayer as an individual.
I'd agree if it weren't for the Bible itself having those "feelgood" magical promises made to believers. It claims that believers will perform miracles, be resistant to snake bites, and resurrection from dead. These breed catastrophe and are the foundation for all those problematic elements.
Amen. When life hits you, and your commitment/faith is tested, there's where you really know what you're trusting in, Jesus or something else, whatever it may be.
I really respect that you take the time to invest in understanding aspects of how many Christians look at Elevation Church, and the adjacent churches resembling the prosperity gospel, through the lense of traditional church theology. We see somewhat of a split in the direction from mainline doctrine and it's hard to reconcile with these churches from that framework when those churches are more focused on "what can God do for me?" and not "how can I honor God and others ahead of my own desires".
Hey Geoff. My name is Brian Davila. I just wanted to say as a content creator I wanted to give you props on this video. I think all the images and B roll and the way you delivered your message was amazing. I really enjoyed it. Keep up the great work.
One Gospel: Gospel (GOOD ANGEL) of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods). REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
@@qwerty-so6ml we are fallen...humans but angels are a different species of beings altogether. In fact, several species. The term "Angel" denotes multiple species of beings. However, humans ARE fallen beings prior to being saved by the blood of Jesus
@@Spladoinkal Jesus called you a god/angel. John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? What law? Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods (H430); and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Strongs H430 Elohim = angels, gods (little g). Right there, he called you a god (angel) that shall die like man, and fall. A fallen angel. Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. No mention of unrepentant man in Matthew 25:41. Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
As someone who tries to love Jesus and love people as authentically as I can and be curious and open to other people's perspectives, I found this video to be REALLY refreshing. Yes, you had your jokes, quips, and sarcasm to keep things light (which I appreciated), but you came off as someone genuinely trying to provide a balanced audit. I loved the moments of wrestling with what you experienced. I believe we all should undergo this kind of healthy reflection when it comes to matters of religious faith or not. This was "good" honest and respectful assessment of what you saw, heard, and felt. Thanks for sharing this, Jared.
I love that I’ve been subbed since the beginning, and even after all of your changes in beliefs, I’ve only continued to gain respect for you. You’re genuine and honest, and I don’t think I’ve ever heard you make an argument in bad faith.
If charisma is dangerous I hope Jared doesn't realise we all leave these comments because we want him to like and notice us and think he's not really stupid even though he says that a lot.
I attended a sermon by an extremely charismatic & blandly hyperattractive Presbyterian pastor who looked like a soap opera actor - I had the same impression that you did about Furtick. His skill in eliciting emotion from the congregation seemed factitious, in that I knew I was crying and/or elated for completely mechanistic, human, and intentional reasons. Where is the Holy Spirit in a performer's playbook?
Wow! I didn't expect such an insightful, balanced and eloquent analysis of a church visit to Elevation from a non believer. I have to admit I've found your compassion for others superior to many Christians I've met or witnessed. The phrase "having a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof" struck me. You definitely have the traits that God wants to instill in us, but since you deny His existence, obviously you deny His power. I pray that you have a Damascus road experience some day and become a voice of reason inside the brotherhood. I wish for you to be well, also, but if those wishes only extend to the end of your human existence, they are indeed inadequate.
After I watched an atheist review God's not dead, I realized that I've been fed a wrong perspective. Especially because we all know at least one Christian that does and says things that will make Satan shocked. The point of Jesus wasn't even that everyone was that terrible, He came to save us from the curse that comes with the law, to lift the weight from us. We can't just think that someone is like Diddy just because they don't believe in God. Many people have certain beliefs just because of where they were born 🤷🏾♀️ especially Christians
Thanks for being so humble and open minded in your critiques. I’m deconstructing rn and trying REALLY hard to not become an angry, anti-church edgy guy, because I want to empathize with and respect the people who are still locked and loaded in a traditional faith. Your video helps me explore the problems I have with evangelicalism without becoming bitter or proud in my view of others.
Holy crap this video was epic! I'm also Christian myself, and when my bro in law sent it to me, I half assumed it was gonna be the typical ripping of all things christian--so not the case! Such a thoughtful, respectful, and well articulated analysis. Honestly, thank you for sharing your experience man. I don't go to elevation, but I've had my own concerns here and there. It was really refreshing to get your perspective, and I really respect you for simply wanting the best for those people, even if the beliefs are different. Bravo my guy!
I attended and served on one of the campus worship teams with Elevation for 5 years and just left the church in December of last year. I was not a Christian when I first visited, but gave my life to Christ that day at the main campus in Ballantyne. Without making this an extremely long post, all of your acknowledgements and observations are fair and relatively common, even amongst those who attend. It’s often the reason that long standing members end up stepping away as I did or as you guessed towards the end of your video, “move on” to something more theologically dense. As for me, I’ve actually settled on the term agnostic, as I don’t quite feel confident in the storylines of Christianity but I have also seen/heard of miracles that give me pause in writing a higher power off entirely. The behind the scenes of the church has a very interesting dynamic, but it would be way too much to explain in a YT comment lol Great video and I appreciate your fair assessment/all you gathered from just one visit!
Brother. This is amazing stuff, thank you so much for making this content! I’m a sceptic who has managed to end up a professional simultaneously in the megachurch industry AND the mystic spiritualist community (don’t tell them, hahaha 😂😂). Anyways, I really appreciate your sound, grounded, humanist perspective on the topic. I’ll be looking forward to more content from you! Hope you’re having a great weekend 😎
I am a Christian, and I attended Elevation's main campus years ago when I moved to the Charlotte area. He is charismatic as you say, but one thing that put me off was when he started doing spontaneous baptisms. I later found out from a former member that he planted people in the audience to stand up to get baptized in order to entice other people in the crowd to do the same. This isn't Christianity. It's manipulation under the guise of pretending to care about you. It's a motivational seminar pretending to be a Bible lesson. It felt off to you because this is what you felt too. It didn't feel like church. Even as an atheist, you picked up on it.
Extremely interesting. I attended the church for five years and never experienced spontaneous baptisms, only communication that while other baptisms were happening on the day others that felt ready to make that public declaration were welcome to join in. I’m curious if this is something that occurred when the church was still growing.
exactly this. everything about this church is a careful fabrication to appeal to the attendees emotions. plenty of former staff stories of time spent deciding on when/how best to light the stage, cue music, best angles of Steven, ans so on. it's a feel-good seminar that teaches the Bible is all about you and how special you are. just look at the welcome pamphlets he received - You're the VIP. they hide their grift in plain sight - just look up the definition of the term elevation (as pertaining to emotions). it's exactly what they are selling.
Personality cults are real, trust your instincts. Respect that you don't prescribe that label willy-nilly, though. Thanks for your hot takes, Jared! Would be interested to hear from former Elevation members; I suspect it's not a cult, but unhealthily gives one man too much admiration, so I hope it doesn't go down that harmful route. Perhaps, 'I suspect it's not a cult yet', is the slightly worrying takeaway.
Atheist church and commercial AV guy here (don’t ask it’s a long ass story) I’ve done church AV for years and thank you for recognizing our talents! Even though it’s bankrolled off of untaxed donations 😢😅 yeah I don’t do church anymore lol You’d be surprised how hard some media teams have to push to get budget necessary for what they do. I’ve been working in secular and house of worship venues for all of my career. It’s always shocking to go from a venue that wants to do more but can’t, to a place that can (and should) do more but doesn’t. Elevation, hill song, gateway, etc. these churches succeeded not because of some pastor was so stand out from the rest, but because they knew how to hire teams of amazing talented tech people and musicians for much less than they’re worth and then use their abilities to build a media empire. It’s no coincidence that the largest churches are the best sounding. The music industry is a fucking mess rn and musicians and techs can’t make steady money without over 10 years experience (at least in Texas), so churches lure them in with steady paychecks way less than what they deserve, but give it like it’s a “special opportunity to serve god and make a living!” While they make millions, we made less than 20 (some less than 15) dollars an hour and some not even as an employee with sick days. So yeah, I watched a musician get fired for calling in with covid. It’s honestly sick.
"Furtick is the second messiah" 😂 Christian here. I just found your channel and I'm definitely subbing! Not only because you're funny, but beucase your content's great. Keep it up. Hopefully you come back to faith, but anyway, you're awesome!
As usual I am very impressed with how much respect you have for the people and thier churches. I usually quicky get frustrated with all the nonsense, and it hurts the connection I want to forge. You have helped me a lot!
Imagine going to this church for years, "feeling the spirit", enjoying the sermons, admiring this Steven dude, meeting a bunch of nice people that become your friends... and then after a few years developing more and more criticisms of the theology/church structure or of Steven himself. Even if you still think its a nice place, that just needs some house-keeping. How is that gonna work out for you? Who's going to listen to you? You know he's got them all wrapped around his stupidly muscular thumb. He doesn't (at present) need to SAY "don't criticize me!", because no one there would dare to anyway. He's just too damn cool and eerily perfect. If its not a cult of personality already, it is RIPE for becoming one FAST.
It’s been a cult of personality since the beginning. I live in Charlotte, they’ve done nothing for this city. Eerily I’ve never met anyone who goes there
Bro, this is a masterclass. Wish more “theological RUclipsrs” would follow your lead. All that being said, @20:01 marker. Take it for what it is. That’s a genuine level of discernment. Wish you all the best man!
It grinds my gears pastors like Furtick emphasizing that if God doesn't have an impact in your life, the problem is not with Jesus, the problem is with you. They always blame you for not having enough faith or for praying in the wrong way or some other fault of your own. They don't know how hard many of us have tried and for how long to be Christians.
Yeah. 😕 I was a devout Catholic for the first 50 or so years of my life, and I tried *so hard* to believe in the supernatural aspects of my church and Christianity in general, but ultimately, just…couldn’t.
Hillsong the same, said if you can't speak in tongues you have less favour with Jesus or something along those lines. I immediately stopped watching. There are also holy spirit nights where I feel people getting manipulated to start laughing and acting crazy by the pastor standing directly next to the person and then the expectation that the person must just randomly start laughing. Looks totally fake especially when there is someone there that apparently is not filled with the holy spirit and then just looks traumatized.
But it's the truth. God is perfect. You aren't. Jesus says the standard is perfection. So yes it is you and your fault. If God were to change, He would have to change to something not perfect. The shame you feel is something to also give to God. He already knows, so there isn't fear in admission.
@@ethanmiller5487 I'm happy for you that God made it possible for you to believe, but not everyone is so lucky. Not sure what you think I should be ashamed of, or how to give shame to Jehovah. Is Jehovah ashamed of himself for all the people he fails to convince of his existence?
never subscribed to an open atheist so fast. You're so vulnerable and open and I cant respect that more. thank you for being level headed and able to see both sides
To the whole thing you said about it feeling off and like you’re playing with fire: you’re not off base. As a Christian, in short, the pull that you feel towards him is a distraction from where your heart, love, passion, energy, whatever you want to call it “should” be going. In my opinion, what most Christians would tell you, that pull should be towards Jesus not Steven. Aside from the Christian view, I think it’s basic human instinct feeling that way because history (among other things) tells us that someone with that much power and sway is a red flag. Speaking from my own experience, as a dumb fresh 18 year old, I attended and volunteered at Elevation for about 8 months and dove in headlong. I started by reading his book Sun Stand Still which has a theme of “audacious faith”. There’s a story in Joshua of the sun standing still from Joshua’s audacious faith. Regardless of Furtick’s intentions in this message, it can easily be interpreted as “if you have enough faith you can make anything happen.” That’s how I interpreted it and applied it to a dream of becoming a famous musician for Christ and when that didn’t happen I went down a dark road of depression, anxiety, and identity crisis. From a Christian view, God can do whatever He wants and is not bound to our will no matter how much faith we have. He might answer yes to your prayer, but He also might not. From a non-Christian view, similar logic applies. If I have a ton of faith and harness all my energy into making gravity go up instead of down, chances are pretty damn good that’s not gonna happen. Anyways, all this to say that the things Furtick preaches given the emphasis as you mentioned (with it being about “you” and “me”) can make it dangerous. Sure you could say “Aw well you were just a dumb 18 year old with no knowledge of how the world works yet”, but I think it’s more than that. I think there are some serious undertones there that can lead to bad places for anyone. Additionally, with how self absorbed he is and some of the word stuff I’ve heard about how he is with is staff and as a person in general. It’s not safe and it’s not healthy for someone to have that much power and attention in my opinion. Especially someone as talented and convincing as him. I don’t wish any bad on him or those who listen to his sermons, but common sense and history show me that it is like playing with fire like you said. Trust your gut dude.
I was shocked how fairly and knowledgeably you handled this topic. Obviously your skepticism is honest and humble. I think Christians often get petty and gossipy about any teacher who gain notoriety and are quick to throw them under the bus, so I tend to doubt such criticisms. However, I do think there are concerns about these churches that adopt so many techniques from the corporate world. Best to follow one’s own conscience and be sparing with our criticism of others.
Catholic here. 🙋♀️ I know elevation church very well. I have family who are employed there. They worship Steven more than they worship God. Seriously, you walk in their house, and you see a collage that Steven made them and signed it. 🤦♀️ Steven prides himself on wanting "new christians" in his church. He himself says his church is a starting point. This was a random video to find in my feed, but I would love to see you go to a Catholic church and see true worship if you haven't already. God bless! 🙏
As an ex Christian who grew up in church all my life this fresh new point of view is so important to me thank you. And thank you for the bass boosted sound effect
Part of my work includes having weekly preaching content beamed into my eyeholes. I have seen quite a bit of Furtick and I have still struggled to find him doing wrong theologically. Sure, some stuff is a bit thin and errs on the self-help side, but I have never been able to do a gotcha. He's just an impeccably talented communicator.
Stumbled across this video. I’m a youth pastor at a small church. I appreciate your honesty and fair assessment. I’ve watched videos where people who say they love Jesus absolutely BLAST Furtick and Elevation. This was a very respectful audit.
Hearing someone say that God spoke to them to say that "God is going to help you with the hard thing" sounds like the Christian version of a horoscope. Vague enough to be applicable to almost anyone and it sounds nice. As an "orthobro", if some priest told me that God spoke to them, I'd be very worried about them falling into prelest (spiritual delusion). We don't believe that's how it works. As a former Evangelical, I understand what he means. But knowing what I know now? It sounds dangerously close to prelest. I don't think that he's being disingenuous at all. He seems very sincere in his approach and the little I heard here sounds nice, although perhaps not much more than self-help. But that's Evangelicalism. The thing about being deceived is that you don't know you're being deceived. If you did, then it wouldn't be a very good deception. The monks tell us to not trust our thoughts because they can lead us astray. And by that I don't mean throw away reason or your capacity to think, I mean something more like what the Buddhists do with meditation: Be attentive. Be wakeful. Be mindful. Be in the present moment, because the present is where you can meet God. Thoughts are distractions. The Fathers call it "nepsis", something like "wakefulness". I explored Buddhism briefly before becoming Orthodox, and it is often remarkably similar. The difference is that it offers no hope or ultimate meaning, only escape. But the practice of mindfulness is definitely something useful for everyone. The difference, I would say, is that it isn't enough on its own. It's a place to start, but there is more, infinitely more.
I did the same and you're right. The difference can also be expressed as the goal of Christianity to become fully human, the goal of Buddhism to be less human. Like that episode of Star Trek where the kid wants to be like Data because he hates having emotions.
This was a great video. As a (mostly) lifelong believer, I thought your video was fair and well thought out. I've been in very charismatic circles and I love them, but I have moved more towards solid teaching and biblical principles as I've began to age upwards. The Bible is a truly beautiful thing and it deserves the respect it asks. So I appreciated your perspective.
I'm a guitar effects pedal builder in the Upstate of SC, and it just so happens that everything is church history themed, and Elevation has been in my crosshairs for criticism for a long time. I appreciate the charity that I often don't have, even though we have many of the same red flags. Your point on Elevation being the last stop seems to have a lot of anecdotal support.
I attended elevation for a while and was even an e-group co-leader at one point. The internal bureaucracy is maddening. That said, I have seen a great many people be blessed through it. My hope and prayer is that more of the groups continue to invite digging into the Word not just the sermon, as I will admit many of your thoughts have crossed my mind as well. I'm really glad I found your channel. I'm skeptical of everything other than Jesus your channel is a lot of fun for me. The Mormon one should be interesting since I grew up in Utah. Blessing!
3 mins in and as a deacon myself. You are right. If you are a theology nerd. This is a church I would not recommend. The massive wealth. The cult of personality. And so much more. Anyway I’m subbed 4 mins in lol.
As a christian (obviously we respectfully disagree on the afterlife) i just want you to know that I REALLY genuinely respect and enjoy your videos. I like to swim in the deepest darkest waters to search for truth as a future apologist. BUT, I find warmth in your videos and a welcoming place to listen to opposing views. I sincerely hope you continue forward with what you're doing and I hope you find success. Hopefully, I'm wrong and you're right about the afterlife. Hope you find hope and love in your journey through the "hate".
@@BasedPhilosophyMom I understand that very well, I'm much happier sitting with hymns, to my own devices to venerate and worship as I see fit. These concerts are severely stressful
Jeff here. I hope my hot take was unwarranted.
I’m so glad you were able to escape from the cult that cosplays as a religious organization! Hope you are doing well! ❤
Did Furdick inspire you to work on those guns too! :)
Was that a Dr. Pepper in your water bottle holder on your bike? Love it!😊😊
@@skypilottom yup! My kid forgot it there that morning. She brought it in after I filmed.
Rock on Jeff.
I'm shocked at how level headed, fair, introspective, and likeable you are to watch as an atheist. I appreciate this channel as a Christian and I'm subbing to binge all of your content. Thank you! Hearing you talk about how his sway over the people unnerved you is accurate and correct.
I agree with this
I’m a Christian too and couldn’t agree more. His “Church is a good thing” attitude and being very respectful yet intellectual and mindful of his biases is something I resonate highly with.
Agree!!!
As a Christian you’re going to follow an atheist for advice because he’s respectful?
@@chad9455 Why on Earth would you ask such a rhetorical question? Obviously not.
19:30 is the largest criticism of Elevation I have, you are drawn to Steven instead of Jesus.
Well that's not the intention of Pastor Steven. He is all about Glory to God. I attend because of Jesus and the deep message taught from the Bible. If people are drawn for that reason at least he has their ears and it's up to them what they do with that. I think all Churches have people that attend for the wrong reason...don't you agree??? how is that avoidable???
I'm a former Elevation Church worship leader. While I'm still a Christian, I'm no longer a follow of Elevation Church and have felt/shared some of the same tensions you're expressing here. I'd be open to sit down and have a conversation regarding what it's like being a part of Elevation from the inside. I appreciate your open mind and willingness to give a fair and honest review!
Hey, I have a question about their worship. It's a small thing that I noticed but some of their songs kind of seem to be more focused on the follower a bit more than they are on God. Is there some truth to this or am I wrong?
@@lightsinthedarkness Hey, I don’t live in America or go to Elevation Church, but isn’t the fact that God gave His only Son to die for us a huge sign of His love and care for us? So wouldn’t it make sense for some songs to focus on how much God loves us, cares for us, and wants good things for us?
@@merlumbien I might have explained it wrong. It's not the "he saves US" that's in the songs that feel off to me. Those I am more than fine with.
But there are certain lyrics that are just more person centered and focused. Like "Another Stone" kinda has a feeling like all that God does is serve the people with some of its lyrics. "Faithful Then/Faithful Now" though has a good message, the lyrics kind of create a sense like God is Faithful to ME, and if I correctly remember* there's not even one stanza that says that I will be faithful back (* - I might be completely wrong since I am going from memory).
@@lightsinthedarkness I think I know what you mean. I just looked at the lyrics, and maybe that's why these songs haven't been translated into many other languages. (I live in Germany, and there are many songs from America or other countries that are either sung in English or with a German translation. Well-known songs that have been translated into ten or even more languages.)
From what I can see in these songs, there doesn’t seem to be anything in them that we couldn’t also find in the Bible. I understand your perspective, that there’s a certain undertone suggesting that God exists for us-and we definitely need to be careful with that because it's actually the other way around. But it’s also true that God sent His Son as the lowest servant to us (even though we are the ones who should be serving Him).
And regarding the song “Another Stone”: even though He, as God, didn’t have to do it, He still promises us things that we can expect to happen (not just hope for, because God stands by His promises).
As for the song "Faithful Then / Faithful Now," it makes sense to sing about God's faithfulness, as He has always been and will always be faithful. Sadly, we can’t say the same about ourselves, so it would be wrong to write or sing that. However, I agree with you that including a line about how we should strive, with God’s help, to be faithful too (even though not everyone will always succeed as long as we’re still in this world) would be a good addition.
@@merlumbien thanks for understanding me. Ultimately you are correct that it is mostly just undertones and aren't directly bad, but I still feel weird abut them because I've seen many of their songs have this similar undertone to the point where I started to feel off about most of them and became weary.
Hey man. You just popped into my RUclips feed and I’ve watched a few videos. I am a Christian and love Jesus just like you loved him. I’ve fought back tears while watching. I’m sorry you lost Jesus. Your videos show you’re a genuine person seeking truth. I know you believe what you believe but I pray your faith is restored. Love you brother.
John 6:39 “And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.” 💛
Out of context. This passage is referring to the Jews who previously listened to the voice of God through the prophets and who are now believing Jesus. Thus of that generation they will not be taken out of his hand of those who listened and learned. This is not a once saved always saved or calvinist proof text.
@@ethanchouinard4157 why do you think that it doesn’t also apply to all believers? I believe it does.
@@ethanchouinard4157 If that were the case, why wouldn't it say that? Why would Jesus say "all those he has given me" instead of "all the Jews from this generation he has given me?"
Sounds like the real problem here is what I call the Paul Atreides Effect. Even if the charismatic leader is genuinely good, the elevation of a flawed human being is itself hazardous.
great term for a real issue
This, so much this.
FYI, what you’re describing is religious psychology and there’s many videos explaining what you’ve proposed here
Randomly stumbled across this video. As I’m enjoying it, I see a clip of an old video of mine 😂😂😂 Dr Brown is also a friend. Great job. It’s not what elevation does week to week, it’s the extra things that sneak in occasionally.
Haha, it's a small world. I'm halfway through your 24 hours with Paul and Morgan video. Wishing you all the best, dude!
@@HeliocentricOfficialthanks for watching, let me know your thoughts. give me a shout if you ever want to do something. Would love for you to visit our church…. Rhythm church in Oceanside. Nowhere near the size of elevation but i think you may find it rather charming…
27:44 yes, i tend to see churches like this as top of funnel approaches to capture new and unchurched folks.
@RuslanKD 97%. I've been a believer for almost 20 years now and the teachings, aka 'sermons,' never dabble in hell or sin. I only ever heard a visiting pastor criticize LGTV once. Matter of fact, Furtick cautions against sin so little that there were several same-sex couples and even a handful of trannies that went more regularly than my family could!
So this is probably why I got recommended this video too lol
I went from southern Baptist church and in a starting to question my faith started attending elevation. For the first few months it was good but the more I went I started researching more theology and I realized a few things that led me away from that church and denomination.
1. I have never, in the time I spent there, been taught about repentance during a service. Which is a very important part of Christianity as a whole.
2. The emphasis on anything held with respect is just not there, if you have been there have you ever been served communion? Prolly not. Have you ever witnessed a baptism that actually had reverence to it at the church? Prolly not. And all this rears its ugly head when they say “it’s not about religion, it’s about a relationship.” And my big issue with that is YOU STILL FOLLOW A RELIGION, of course we need to have a relationship with God BUT BROTHER STOP DISCARDING ALL OF THE RELIGIOUS PARTS OF OUR RELIGION.
3. It’s always about how great you are, how You can do this and You can do that and God will do this for you, almost like God is a vending machine. The essence of Christianity is to kill the old self and pick up your cross because JESUS OUR GOD DIED ON A CROSS AND ROSE THREE DAYS LATER. HE DEFEATED DEATH, GOD BECAME INCARNATE. THIS IS THE EMPHASIS NOT YOU YOU YOU.
4. Typically if you look at the type of person who attends, and I’m not throwing shade it was just an observation while I was there, they are usually Sunday morning Christians and even I was a Sunday morning Christian while attending. Giving God pretty much only 2 Hours a week.
Since then I have left and joined the Eastern Orthodox Church where I have found the fullness of the faith. Anyways. God bless
I was really hoping this was going to end with "I joined Eastern Orthodoxy'. 😁😁😁 *High five*!
Awesome dude, God bless you!
To be clear, you attending this church every Sunday for several months and never had communion?
@@IamGrimalkinI went solidly for around 8 months. Never once unfortunately
welcome to the true church my man
Okay. Man I’m really impressed by your channel. Really refreshing. I was an atheist from 12 to 28 and became a Christian. My family didn’t believe in church or God and my dad really hated religion. And I wish when I was atheist I was like you. While we have disagreements I think I am going to enjoy your channel a lot. - Deacon James
I was an atheist til my 20, now I believe in The lord of the rings, and his prophet Gandalf...
@@christopheb.6121what’s your motive? what do you gain from mocking him? kinda rude imo
further, if i asked you what’s the evidence that Gandalf really existed in a historic setting, how would you respond?
your argument is very weak.
@@BrandonSTOJust gotta ignore no life’s who are like that 👍🏼
@@CosmoStriker1 maybe, but then again, ignoring the lost isn’t very loving either.
@@BrandonSTOno one is claiming that not believing in Gandalf or Iluvatar results in eternal punishment.
I was in a similar mega church, very heavy on production and has a similar small group they push people to be a part of. I was a student then and I quickly got really active. I invited a lot of fellow students, I've led groups, I've even gotten to a point where I'm also leading other leaders (we call it coaching). I loved it, it's like a community I never had. But I felt really trapped needing to always go to the next level. You attend, you join a group, you get trained to lead a group, you get trained to coach, all while there's a lot of expensive events you need to attend. I'm also into volunteering a lot and I eventually realized how much time and money I've been spending on these events and group meeting that I could've used in doing something that can actually cause change in the world right now. Imagine if the money people spend on registration fees are instead going to charities? That would be more of an impact than just having a concert with motivational speakers (basically just a service but in a bigger venue). But everything was just so hyped up in there that it's so hard to not have FOMO.
I’m a Christian and actually really enjoyed this video! You were very kind, respectful, yet truthful in many ways. I agreed with you in a lottt of ways. Thanks for your honesty! I pray churches today don’t deter you from the real true, amazing, living God!
Orthodox here. ☦️ You’re totally right about this type of church being an entry point, at least in my personal experiences. I was at one of these type churches before looking into theology/church history and converting into Orthodoxy. We appreciate you Jared, keep it up! 👍🏻
They’re really good for evangelism of the basics of Christianity as a whole. I think (emphasis on think, I’m just a layman) the Holy Spirit does work there and helps people to trust in Christ and try to be good Christians which at which point I THINK God has mercy based on knowledge and heart. The Gospel is being preached, at the very least, which is amazing.
Glad you became a real Christian. God Bless you
Be honest with us, do you really think that Eastern Orthodox don't have issues of their own? We're all sinners and fall short from the glory of God.
And yes the Church Fathers are a very important for church history, and I say this as a Protestant. God bless 🙏🏻
@@Rolando_Cueva yeah some of us fall a lot shorter; protestants. At least you’re not mormons but the mega church ones might as well be
@@ChronicAndIronic whether short or long, everyone falls and needs our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. You conflating all 'mega churches' like Mormons? Very interesting and high and mighty of you.
Protestant metal head here, what a great balanced and respectful take! Thank you for not being an insane atheist. You've earned a subscriber \m/
me too
Former "Elevator" from the late 00s/early 10s. I relate so much to you being bothered but unable to explain why. It's in the uncanny valley between church and cult. It's like, it's as much of a prosperity gospel church, a personality cult, a bald for-profit endeavor, etc., as it could possibly be without ever handing you enough ammo to definitively accuse it of being any of those things. Almost as if someone knows exactly how far they can step without crossing the line.
Elevation got me going back to church. But it isn't quite a church. But it did get me into a great small group. But at the same time the group leader had his problems and wouldn't have made a very good pastor. But at the same time we did a lot of service, and that was spiritually beneficial. But at the same time much of the service (and much of the money too) is just what's required to "put on the show". And while nobody makes you, if you show up to do it, the leaders will let you run yourself into the ground with 12+ hour days volunteering. It happened to my brother-in-law and my small group leader and some other people I knew.
I must admit, when the church is spending tens of thousands of dollars on laser lights and smoke machines, it's hard to keep up your classic Protestant disdain of gold chalices and vestments. And when you know people who are volunteers/staff who get recruited to stand up first and get baptized so other people will more easily answer the altar call... and when you know that staff and interns get initiated by hazing, and that the pastor is surrounded by yes-men and his salary is a trade secret (but don't worry, it's fine -- it's determined by a "board of overseers" who happen to be... other megachurch pastors)... all this takes the shine off what is already an extremely well-produced but otherwise mediocre rock concert and a weekly sermon with lots of emotion and the actual depth of a puddle.
Anyway, I got too bored to continue showing up after the small group disbanded and then after Pastor Steven suddenly adopted weird charismatic mannerisms and built his infamous house. I started going to a small Methodist church which was pretty nice, we had pews with velvet cushions and sang out of hymnals. Then learned some more things and ended up becoming Orthodox. Would my life be anything like it is without Elevation, I guess not. God works in mysterious ways.
Can you add specifics of what the “hazing” consisted of, please? Your comment really summarizes the sense I have from knowing someone who attended for many years, or that it shares many characteristics of a cult without going full tilt and raising too many fears and suspicions. Furtick freaks me out. I don’t trust him at all.
"I must admit, when the church is spending tens of thousands of dollars on laser lights and smoke machines, it's hard to keep up your classic Protestant disdain of gold chalices and vestments." Exactly LOL.
You should visit a Quaker meeting house or a Catholic adoration chapel. It is the opposite of a megachurch as it is mostly silence.
As a Quaker and atheist, I second this.
Go to a Benedictine Silent Mass - absolutely beautiful!
@@bobatea5406I don’t mean to be disrespectful just genuinely curious. What’s the point of being a Quaker if you are an atheist?
@@icxcarnie Benedictines have their own Mass?
@@RedRiverMan They don't have their own Rite, but sometimes they perform the Mass in complete silence.
*17:36* _"...Steven furtick is probably the best preacher that I've ever seen."_
*-Jared **_Atheist Church Audit_*
_"When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith would not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power."_
*- The Apostle Paul - 1 CORINTHIANS 2:1-5*
That bible quote is from a great preacher; I mean he made it into the Bible. He covers himself in humility, shows his vulnerability and thus triggers empathy and goodwill. At the same time, he uses this to sneak the authority to speak for God.
Furtick does the same thing.
@@paulschlachter4313Furtick is humble and vulnerable? I’m surprised because it’s my sense he’s lashed out when people have questioned his earnings and spending, for example.
@@paulschlachter4313 To compare Steven Furtick to St. Paul is a great disservice to St. Paul, please forgive me for saying so. Furtick is a pompous heretic, St. Paul is not. You also discredit the many other Saints such as St. Paisios and St. Xenia of St. Petersburg that have been able to be so humble and of such great servitude to Christ, partaking in His very Essence and miracle-working.
I might be able to help you pinpoint what was off about. He is the star of the show, not Christ. Instead of humbly feeding people the Word of God, he makes it into a show where he’s the star
My thoughts exactly too
Exactly. Steven first, Elevation second, Jesus third. It's all the performance of an insecure man.
I've never attended Elevation in person, but I can tell you they prayed for my dying mother all the way in New Zealand and their sermons on Spotify have got me through some of the darkest times in my life.
Wow all the prayers! Lol
I’m sorry your being misled by Furtick the false teacher
@@jakesherron2390 Whether they're being misled or not is between them and God, though I do agree Furtick is a heretic. Ultimately, though, he kept this beautiful woman going, even if indirectly, and that does deserve its due diligence. That is an act which should be praised, even if it's one of few regarding Furtick.
First video I'm seeing of you, and you've shared a lot of interesting thoughts I can totally find myself in. The concern for a 'one leader style' church, the incredible charisma of pastor Steven, your thoughts on cult-ism, speaking things into existence, etc. It was honest, well-balanced and in my opinion often spot on. I've never been to Elevation physically, so it was intriguing to hear your experiences. I have listened to heaps of his sermons quite some years ago. Though many may attack him for it, I really like(d) the personal and practical aspect of his sermons. Sometimes Christians can be so focused on the all the theories and doctrines, but fail to actually let it transform their lives. Anyway, interesting vid!
I left elevation church after attending for 6 years. At the time, I would have told you that I left for reasons that have nothing to do with theology, but hindsight is 2020. (I left a year and a half ago). Like I saw another comment say, it’s not the week to week sermons that are the problem, though some are more problematic than others, it’s the subtle ways the theology has changed over the past 18 years of the churches life. One comment used the phrase cult of personality, and while I wouldn’t say that that is a comprehensive description, it is part of it. Like you said, Furtick is a great preacher. I don’t think anyone can deny that, but it’s the teaching aspect of the preaching that doesn’t quite add up.
As to why I left, there were a lot of little things bothering me for a while, so when a bigger push came I walked away. I had been so afraid of leaving because of the people, the friends, I had within the church. So when some of these people turned their back on me, I had my excuse to run. And that’s why I was in denial that it was theology that pushed me away. It ultimately was, but I couldn’t admit that for the first year after leaving.
Furtick is not a great preacher. Now, if you want to say, he is great at preaching a prosperity man centered teaching, where the focus is heavily on you and himself than on God, than sure. That would be accurate. To say great preacher without a biblically sound explanation leads to implying that everything or almost everything spoken by him is sound teaching. It most certainly is not. He is eye candy mixed with being good at smooth speech and telling crowds what they enjoy hearing.
Thanks for the work that you do man! Keep it up! Every video is a treat and a small window into all these different communities that a lot of us don't have a chance to peek into :) It helps put things into perspective.
Former minister, new agnostic here. Love the idea of this series and the editing along the way. This type of content will shoot up in no time.
as an Orthodox Christian i first found your channel from the Orthodox video (shocker right?) but i’ve since binged all your videos
Same 😂 ☦️
@@mikaylagabel5254 A third one, here. I appreciate his honesty as an atheist, it's nice to get a fresh perspective. I do wish he'd come Home though. ☦
one thing that is always a red flag to me is when a church doesn't use a cross or have any Christian symbolism but instead use corpo logos. like Elevate. it just seems detached from religion.
I went to Elevation for about six months back in 2010-2011. What turned me off to the church very quickly was I saw Pastor Furtick in public and decided to say hello. From the moment I said hello, you could tell he did not want to be talking to me, that I was a bother to him, and he just wanted me to leave. That's not a pastor. That's a celebrity. I left the church within a couple of weeks knowing that the pastor doesn't care about his flock. He cares about fame and publicity. He could not be bothered with someone who went to his church. Someone that he is supposed to be shepherding. He clearly believes his flock is there to serve him, not the other way around.
That is so sad! I hope you found a church where you are appreciated and led with love as you deserve! 💖
what was he doing when you said hello?
He's not a pastor
"Goats and Salt"
Welcome to the modern church, where the main attraction seems to be clowns feeding goats, and somehow, we’re calling it Christianity. It’s quite a spectacle. Week after week, we're watching entertainers dressed as pastors, tossing spiritual junk food to a crowd that doesn’t want the real gospel, just enough feel-good messages to soothe their itching ears. You know, the kind of sermons that 2 Timothy 4:3 warns us about-tailor-made to offend no one and entertain everyone. And these goats? They’re hooked, so addicted to the show that they’d rather sear their own consciences than confront the truth (1 Timothy 4:2).
What has happened to the church? The gospel has been dragged through the mud and remade into a self-help seminar, a prosperity promise, and a pathway to personal success. And the enemy? He’s sitting back and laughing, watching this circus with pride. He doesn’t even have to work hard anymore-this new breed of false Christianity does the job for him. It makes a mockery of the cross, distorts the Word, and leaves people spiritually bankrupt while calling itself faith. It’s as if we’ve turned the sanctuary into a stage, and God’s truth into a performance.
But God? He’s not impressed. He’s not entertained. While we might be amused by this freak show, He’s grieved. The Bible is clear: “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked” (Galatians 6:7). The very gospel that these clowns drag through the dirt is the same gospel that can save their souls. It’s heartbreaking, really. God loves them-even the clowns-and desires that none should perish (2 Peter 3:9). But make no mistake, God will not tolerate this forever. His judgment is real, and His patience, though great, is not infinite.
And here we are, the real believers, standing amidst this chaos. What are we to do? We’re called to be the “salt of the earth” (Matthew 5:13), the preservers of the faith in a world that has lost its taste for truth. But what does salt do? It preserves, yes-but it also stings when applied to a wound. Our message, when faithfully preached, will cut through the lies and expose the idolatry in people’s hearts. And let’s be honest, that doesn’t make us popular. It’s not easy to stand up against the goats who have settled into their entertainment and comfort. Convincing them that they’re wrong, that they’re worshipping a false gospel, is no small task.
But we have to do it. Why? Because we love God and we love what He loves. This isn’t about condemnation; it’s about salvation. If we truly care about people, how could we stand by silently while they teeter on the edge of eternal destruction? "Love does no harm to a neighbor" (Romans 13:10), and there is no greater harm than watching someone walk toward hell without a word of warning. It’s not loving to stay quiet-it’s heartless. To watch someone lose their soul for the sake of vanity, comfort, or entertainment, and say nothing? You’d have to despise them to be that indifferent. But we are called to love our neighbor as ourselves (Mark 12:31), and true love speaks the truth, even when it’s hard to hear. We don't warn people of judgment because we hate them, but because we know the severity of God’s justice and the greatness of His mercy.
This is why we must guard the church. Paul warned us to watch out for “wolves in sheep’s clothing” (Matthew 7:15), and yet so many are too blind to see that these wolves are now running the show. It’s up to us to stand as gatekeepers of truth, to “contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 1:3). And yes, we may face resistance. Yes, we may be called old-fashioned, intolerant, or even hateful for refusing to bow to the cultural pressures of the day. But the reality is that we are preserving the very gospel that saves, and no matter how much resistance we face, we must stay faithful.
Being salt means preserving the truth even when the world (and sadly, much of the church) doesn’t want to hear it. We must live and preach the gospel with boldness and conviction, knowing that it is the power of God for salvation (Romans 1:16). The goats may mock us, the clowns may continue their show, but we have a higher calling. We are ambassadors of Christ, entrusted with the message of reconciliation, and we cannot afford to water it down or hide it under the veil of entertainment.
In the end, we’re not just saving souls from eternal damnation-we’re defending the purity of the gospel itself. The world may have turned the church into a circus, but God’s truth endures. His Word stands firm. And as long as we remain faithful, the true gospel will continue to convict, save, and transform lives.
As a pastor of a small church who loves his flock, I can honestly say that all pastors are human and will fail at being Christlike. There is only one true shepherd. Pray for your pastor and trust in the Lord.
So, as a Christian in my pov, steven was a decent preacher in 2010. He's leaned more and more into the prosperity gospel and said wildly heretical things, not every Sunday but once in a while. There's the problem he's so charismatic. Many just accept what he says, no problem, and it goes over their heads. That's scary because of how easy it can be to stray from God's Word. I mean, the man literally said, "I am God almighty!" And it was met with thunderous applause, and he never clarified or said an apology. To me that makes him dangerous.
There was a point where he started to get wide recognition and hanging out with TD Jakes and other prosperity gospel, charismatic types and suddenly began throwing their mannerisms and cadences into his sermons. It was so weird and jarring at the time, as if he was trying out a new persona to see if it got more hits.
@huntz0r oh I'm well aware, that's why I said 2010... around that time, he was doing his own thing, but the big dogs of the charismatics got around him, and now I'd say he's the main one lol
Couldn't agree more.
New Sub. This stuff is so vital - you are a treasure to find! Im just watching everything. Thank you for your work!!! You fill an important niche, hey ♡ I've had a million conversations with you in my head already, lol.😂
Bad vibes are hard to define and difficult to employ as a warning to others. Sometimes, vibes is all we have and that can be enough to save us from terrible experiences.
Also, this church is all about the pastor. He stands alone in a huge stage, barely holds the Bible, parades himself around the church as the center of attention, and his picture is the cover of his book(s).
The saints and church fathers call it spiritual discernment.
This video popped up in my recommended yesterday and I’ve already watched like 7 videos. Absolutely underrated channel
Fair, humble, critical, respectful, and funny. Thank you. I appreciate you.
as an christian I did not expect to enjoy this as much as I did. You got yourself a new subscriber
This was a great video- honest and charitable. I am not an Elevation member, but attended and worked at a similar church for many years. We left in the last couple years, after wrestling with the idea that these kinds of churches probably aren’t the best model for producing mature followers of Christ. We landed at a smaller PCA church, and feel much more at home, and truly can see that we are being more rigorously discipled, not only through the corporate gathering, but in the general life and community of the church. We feel seen and known, which, in my experience, doesn’t generally happen in these large, dimly lit churches, unless you make it into the inner circles.
One of the last straws for us, was something you mentioned- the leadership using the “God said” line to promote whatever it was they were promoting, whether it was a huge building campaign (which never got off the ground, for a variety of reasons), or the promotion of the pastor’s son to senior pastor (also didn’t happen, due to the pastor being caught in a gross sexual abuse scandal). When “God said “, it makes it very hard to ask questions without feeling like a person doubts God. I’m a more mature Christian, but I was furious that people were being manipulated spiritually, and we knew our time there was over.
Elevation seems to be following the pattern of many megachurches before them and I pray they pay attention so they don’t experience the same disastrous fate.
when your friend mentioned the repetition of the congregation singing during worship and it feeling like indoctrination.. my mind went to revelation 4:8 - each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. day and night they never stop saying: "'holy, holy, holy is the lord god almighty,’ who was, and is, and is to come." ..which i would say is done to emphasize what's being said rather than having any cultish undertones.
but really enjoyed the video - it's always interesting to hear other perspectives.
Bro.. two seconds in.. And I’m like “Why can’t more atheists be like this guy?!” New sub!
I can respect your comments and concerns. Your review was creative fun to watch and funny. I think it’s very healthy to be skeptical when first attending a new Church. I actually might have felt the same concerns myself. I'm always a skeptic by nature. Pastor Steven is so passionate and I was worried about all the things you brought up . I now attend Elevation Church most Sundays and am glad I dug deep to feel confident with my choice. I always keep a careful eye open to anything I feel is wrong of course and that is healthy (loyalty and trust to God not any man). I can tell you after a very deep dive, you'd see how much Pastor Steven Furtick has matured and grown as a teacher of God's Word. I'm not new to the Bible or being a Christian and feel I'm very aware and careful of red flags. I even began to believe some negative and unfair criticism on some other RUclips channels...so much so that I took a break from Elevation. But after great thought and prayer, I came full circle with no concerns about being in a "cult" in any sense of the word. Most RUclipsrs that bash him are very decietful and take thing out of context (clickbait)...people believe them and don't do their own homework (Some Christains just love to throw stones, sadly). I'm confident in my choice and would advise anyone reading this to listen to Pastor Steven Furticks most recent sermons and decide for yourselves! (dont just believe hateful people....this channel seems fair and I didn't take offense at all...because I know the truth
ps
What's mindblowing to me is that an atheist gave the fairest review of my Church and Pastor while the "Christian" channels just manipulated and lied....so thanks for being honest!
Orthobro, here. Please keep doing these. Unbelievable quality for a relatively low number of subscribers (so far!). If you are ever in the Greenville, SC area, please let me know! We have a great parish here you would probably be interested to visit.
St. John of the Ladder?? I love that place! I'm an atheist, as well, and they were the warmest, most spiritual congregation I've ever encountered.
go to keipi in greenville @@edrynos1870
I'm in the Greenville area. I've been looking for an orthobro to ask some questions !
"Orthobro" is now added to now vocabulary
Christian here. First time watching a video on this channel. I was entertained and impressed. This was a GREAT video. Really love the fact that you are critiquing fairly with a more than fair criteria.
Hats off. You have a new subscriber👍🏾
PS - Love your taste in music. 🤘🏾
I am a southern Baptist Pastor. You’re the first channel that RUclips has ever recommended to me of an atheist format. Kudos to you sir! How did you fall from the faith may I ask? Hope you are well
This is such an interesting angle for someone to make content like this.
You seem like you’re truly on the search for truth in and of itself.
I love your channel man. I've been exploring different churches during this year because they are neat and exploration is fun, so finding someone doing it more hardcore like you was a treat! Keep it up dude, this is great. //Dude exploring Christianity
You guys should go together and do a joint review!
Hey Jared, I somehow stumbled upon your video and was surprised that you are an atheist even though you have studied theology. I'm saddened by this but can understand why - especially when there are so many scammers who hold the title of preachers and how some Christians can come down really hard on others in sin.
I think as Christians, while we have to be truthful about sinful behaviors, we ought to love and be gracious to people. Jesus was the same whenever he met a sinner where they were and tells them to sin no more.
I'm unsure where you are in life at the moment and what else is holding you back from faith in Christ, but i will be praying for your salvation. I think you're a genuine guy and if you continue to sincerely search for truth, Jesus will meet you where you are.
I grew up in a Christian family but wasn't saved until in my 20s. Familiarity with the scriptures alone don't save. It is an encounter with God that produces full belief in Him that we are saved. This encounter is different for everyone but once you meet Him, you cannot look back. It is impossible to do so knowing Jesus is real and that he is God.
Keep on searching, Jared. Don't give up.
As an Apologetics teacher who deeply believes in the validity of the Bible, I have to give you major credit for this video.
This is the first video of yours I’ve seen, but man this was awesome. You were respectful, inquisitive, critical, and thoughtful. I fully expected you to just rip into Elevation (and I kinda wanted you to tbh) but you were level headed and open.
This is a great video & thorough analysis. You’ve gained a subscriber!
I've got a friend who listens to a lot of his sermons. The "prosperity lite" thing is a powerful thing. Life is hard and people are looking for hope.
“More interested in wrestling than knockouts” That pretty much summarizes what makes this channel so good. Love the Zelda cooking sound effect! XD
Hi Geoff. 56 year old Christian here from South-Africa. Thank you, I really enjoy your videos and the kind way you discuss things.
I'm cautious of people that overpower others with their personality.
Check out At Boshoff. He is the main pastor of one of the biggest churches in South-Africa, the CRC. They also do the campus thing. He reminds me of Steven Furtick in many ways.
The day will come when the Orthodox don't excited every time someone acknowledges our existence, but it is not this day!
Also, commenting for the algorithm.
No no, we'll always get excited. 😂
I love that you do this. I'm ex-ev + typically can't step into a church without getting disregulated (dys- ?) but I'm still fascinated by the goings on in Christendom so your thoughtful + deliberately unhateful takes are much appreciated. On the subject of why it's so off-putting that the pastor is so good at what he does.... I went to a megachurch until my twenties, so my perspective from experience is that these sorts of pastors are celebrities. They end up being outside the range of what we consider normal people, and the effect that produces is kind of a slow burn. At first you're just impressed, maybe think that you're glad someone so all-around great is in a position of power, but slowly they become an authority that usurps your own self-agency. While you might agree that they could've said something better or didn't do X right, what you admire starts being the very fact that they don't do things quite like they should. It makes them seem more human. You think, "he really is just a normal guy." And somehow that solidifies him further as an "other" that you defer to. Kind of Trump: The Early Years (sorry to anyone that might offend). I think they just end up being such a big part of the way you think, to an unhealthy extent.
27:45 I think a lot of modern evanglicals are unwittingly taught to equate being a Christian with feeling soaring emotions during a sermon; but then life hits and things are hard and frustrating and they go to church and they don't feel it anymore; and they think "oh i don't believe this anymore" but that's not what faith is. Faith is what you act out in the world, it is a commitment. I don't often hear that emphasized at big rock concert churches, i think it's basically a way to sell a kind of entertainment to people more than it is genuine religion; even though it has components of genuine faith and I'm sure many people there are believers. ❤️🙏 I guess I just see the loudness and showmanship of it to be a bit counter to the message of participating in repentance and prayer as an individual.
I'd agree if it weren't for the Bible itself having those "feelgood" magical promises made to believers. It claims that believers will perform miracles, be resistant to snake bites, and resurrection from dead. These breed catastrophe and are the foundation for all those problematic elements.
Amen. When life hits you, and your commitment/faith is tested, there's where you really know what you're trusting in, Jesus or something else, whatever it may be.
Woah! I didn't expect an Orthobro shoutout! Love it
I really respect that you take the time to invest in understanding aspects of how many Christians look at Elevation Church, and the adjacent churches resembling the prosperity gospel, through the lense of traditional church theology. We see somewhat of a split in the direction from mainline doctrine and it's hard to reconcile with these churches from that framework when those churches are more focused on "what can God do for me?" and not "how can I honor God and others ahead of my own desires".
Hey Geoff. My name is Brian Davila. I just wanted to say as a content creator I wanted to give you props on this video. I think all the images and B roll and the way you delivered your message was amazing. I really enjoyed it. Keep up the great work.
You’re my favorite atheist. As a hardcore Christian, I wish you could be my friend. Hope I’ll see you in heaven.
One Gospel:
Gospel (GOOD ANGEL) of Reconciliation.
Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom
to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself.
We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness.
If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever.
Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods).
REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
@@qwerty-so6ml we are fallen...humans but angels are a different species of beings altogether. In fact, several species. The term "Angel" denotes multiple species of beings. However, humans ARE fallen beings prior to being saved by the blood of Jesus
@@Spladoinkal
In Genesis 3:5, the serpent said Ye shall be AS gods.
In John 10:34, Jesus said Ye ARE gods.
Stop believing your father, the devil.
@@qwerty-so6ml The word "God" is not synonymous with "Angel."
@@Spladoinkal
Jesus called you a god/angel.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
What law?
Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods (H430); and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Strongs H430 Elohim = angels, gods (little g).
Right there, he called you a god (angel) that shall die like man, and fall. A fallen angel.
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
No mention of unrepentant man in Matthew 25:41.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
I wonder how Heliocentric will feel after visiting pentecostal churches in African countries, particularly Nigeria, South Africa, and Botswana.
If he gets enough subscribers maybe he can start traveling far and wide.
"I'm more interested in wrestling, than knock outs." That's what humility looks like. Well done, sir.
As someone who tries to love Jesus and love people as authentically as I can and be curious and open to other people's perspectives, I found this video to be REALLY refreshing. Yes, you had your jokes, quips, and sarcasm to keep things light (which I appreciated), but you came off as someone genuinely trying to provide a balanced audit. I loved the moments of wrestling with what you experienced. I believe we all should undergo this kind of healthy reflection when it comes to matters of religious faith or not. This was "good" honest and respectful assessment of what you saw, heard, and felt. Thanks for sharing this, Jared.
I love that I’ve been subbed since the beginning, and even after all of your changes in beliefs, I’ve only continued to gain respect for you. You’re genuine and honest, and I don’t think I’ve ever heard you make an argument in bad faith.
If charisma is dangerous I hope Jared doesn't realise we all leave these comments because we want him to like and notice us and think he's not really stupid even though he says that a lot.
DON'T TELL HIM! HE'LL BE ON TO US! 😂
I attended a sermon by an extremely charismatic & blandly hyperattractive Presbyterian pastor who looked like a soap opera actor - I had the same impression that you did about Furtick. His skill in eliciting emotion from the congregation seemed factitious, in that I knew I was crying and/or elated for completely mechanistic, human, and intentional reasons. Where is the Holy Spirit in a performer's playbook?
Wow! I didn't expect such an insightful, balanced and eloquent analysis of a church visit to Elevation from a non believer. I have to admit I've found your compassion for others superior to many Christians I've met or witnessed. The phrase "having a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof" struck me. You definitely have the traits that God wants to instill in us, but since you deny His existence, obviously you deny His power. I pray that you have a Damascus road experience some day and become a voice of reason inside the brotherhood. I wish for you to be well, also, but if those wishes only extend to the end of your human existence, they are indeed inadequate.
After I watched an atheist review God's not dead, I realized that I've been fed a wrong perspective. Especially because we all know at least one Christian that does and says things that will make Satan shocked. The point of Jesus wasn't even that everyone was that terrible, He came to save us from the curse that comes with the law, to lift the weight from us. We can't just think that someone is like Diddy just because they don't believe in God. Many people have certain beliefs just because of where they were born 🤷🏾♀️ especially Christians
Thanks for being so humble and open minded in your critiques. I’m deconstructing rn and trying REALLY hard to not become an angry, anti-church edgy guy, because I want to empathize with and respect the people who are still locked and loaded in a traditional faith. Your video helps me explore the problems I have with evangelicalism without becoming bitter or proud in my view of others.
Holy crap this video was epic! I'm also Christian myself, and when my bro in law sent it to me, I half assumed it was gonna be the typical ripping of all things christian--so not the case!
Such a thoughtful, respectful, and well articulated analysis. Honestly, thank you for sharing your experience man. I don't go to elevation, but I've had my own concerns here and there. It was really refreshing to get your perspective, and I really respect you for simply wanting the best for those people, even if the beliefs are different.
Bravo my guy!
I attended and served on one of the campus worship teams with Elevation for 5 years and just left the church in December of last year. I was not a Christian when I first visited, but gave my life to Christ that day at the main campus in Ballantyne. Without making this an extremely long post, all of your acknowledgements and observations are fair and relatively common, even amongst those who attend. It’s often the reason that long standing members end up stepping away as I did or as you guessed towards the end of your video, “move on” to something more theologically dense. As for me, I’ve actually settled on the term agnostic, as I don’t quite feel confident in the storylines of Christianity but I have also seen/heard of miracles that give me pause in writing a higher power off entirely. The behind the scenes of the church has a very interesting dynamic, but it would be way too much to explain in a YT comment lol Great video and I appreciate your fair assessment/all you gathered from just one visit!
Thank God you escaped that horrible cult
this channel needs more visibility you're awesome
I enjoyed this video and listening to your perspective. Thank you!
20:14 i don't know if you still believe in this but to me... That sounds like discernment
Brother. This is amazing stuff, thank you so much for making this content! I’m a sceptic who has managed to end up a professional simultaneously in the megachurch industry AND the mystic spiritualist community (don’t tell them, hahaha 😂😂). Anyways, I really appreciate your sound, grounded, humanist perspective on the topic. I’ll be looking forward to more content from you! Hope you’re having a great weekend 😎
I am a Christian, and I attended Elevation's main campus years ago when I moved to the Charlotte area. He is charismatic as you say, but one thing that put me off was when he started doing spontaneous baptisms. I later found out from a former member that he planted people in the audience to stand up to get baptized in order to entice other people in the crowd to do the same.
This isn't Christianity. It's manipulation under the guise of pretending to care about you. It's a motivational seminar pretending to be a Bible lesson. It felt off to you because this is what you felt too. It didn't feel like church. Even as an atheist, you picked up on it.
😱
Extremely interesting. I attended the church for five years and never experienced spontaneous baptisms, only communication that while other baptisms were happening on the day others that felt ready to make that public declaration were welcome to join in. I’m curious if this is something that occurred when the church was still growing.
exactly this. everything about this church is a careful fabrication to appeal to the attendees emotions. plenty of former staff stories of time spent deciding on when/how best to light the stage, cue music, best angles of Steven, ans so on. it's a feel-good seminar that teaches the Bible is all about you and how special you are. just look at the welcome pamphlets he received - You're the VIP. they hide their grift in plain sight - just look up the definition of the term elevation (as pertaining to emotions). it's exactly what they are selling.
Personality cults are real, trust your instincts. Respect that you don't prescribe that label willy-nilly, though. Thanks for your hot takes, Jared! Would be interested to hear from former Elevation members; I suspect it's not a cult, but unhealthily gives one man too much admiration, so I hope it doesn't go down that harmful route. Perhaps, 'I suspect it's not a cult yet', is the slightly worrying takeaway.
Atheist church and commercial AV guy here (don’t ask it’s a long ass story) I’ve done church AV for years and thank you for recognizing our talents! Even though it’s bankrolled off of untaxed donations 😢😅 yeah I don’t do church anymore lol
You’d be surprised how hard some media teams have to push to get budget necessary for what they do. I’ve been working in secular and house of worship venues for all of my career. It’s always shocking to go from a venue that wants to do more but can’t, to a place that can (and should) do more but doesn’t. Elevation, hill song, gateway, etc. these churches succeeded not because of some pastor was so stand out from the rest, but because they knew how to hire teams of amazing talented tech people and musicians for much less than they’re worth and then use their abilities to build a media empire. It’s no coincidence that the largest churches are the best sounding. The music industry is a fucking mess rn and musicians and techs can’t make steady money without over 10 years experience (at least in Texas), so churches lure them in with steady paychecks way less than what they deserve, but give it like it’s a “special opportunity to serve god and make a living!” While they make millions, we made less than 20 (some less than 15) dollars an hour and some not even as an employee with sick days. So yeah, I watched a musician get fired for calling in with covid. It’s honestly sick.
Your experience, perspective, and recognition of the role AV and sound has in these venues is so important. I hope more people find your comment.
You have such a balanced view. You are not being intellectually lazy. Thank you for this video.
"Furtick is the second messiah" 😂
Christian here. I just found your channel and I'm definitely subbing!
Not only because you're funny, but beucase your content's great. Keep it up. Hopefully you come back to faith, but anyway, you're awesome!
As usual I am very impressed with how much respect you have for the people and thier churches. I usually quicky get frustrated with all the nonsense, and it hurts the connection I want to forge. You have helped me a lot!
It really is refreshing! He is setting a wonderful example
Lmao 😉 caught me
ur intelligent take on this tricky topic was greatly appreciated bro
Imagine going to this church for years, "feeling the spirit", enjoying the sermons, admiring this Steven dude, meeting a bunch of nice people that become your friends... and then after a few years developing more and more criticisms of the theology/church structure or of Steven himself. Even if you still think its a nice place, that just needs some house-keeping. How is that gonna work out for you? Who's going to listen to you? You know he's got them all wrapped around his stupidly muscular thumb. He doesn't (at present) need to SAY "don't criticize me!", because no one there would dare to anyway. He's just too damn cool and eerily perfect. If its not a cult of personality already, it is RIPE for becoming one FAST.
It’s been a cult of personality since the beginning. I live in Charlotte, they’ve done nothing for this city. Eerily I’ve never met anyone who goes there
Bro, this is a masterclass. Wish more “theological RUclipsrs” would follow your lead.
All that being said, @20:01 marker. Take it for what it is. That’s a genuine level of discernment. Wish you all the best man!
Love these videos, please keep making them!
It grinds my gears pastors like Furtick emphasizing that if God doesn't have an impact in your life, the problem is not with Jesus, the problem is with you. They always blame you for not having enough faith or for praying in the wrong way or some other fault of your own. They don't know how hard many of us have tried and for how long to be Christians.
Yeah. 😕 I was a devout Catholic for the first 50 or so years of my life, and I tried *so hard* to believe in the supernatural aspects of my church and Christianity in general, but ultimately, just…couldn’t.
Hillsong the same, said if you can't speak in tongues you have less favour with Jesus or something along those lines. I immediately stopped watching. There are also holy spirit nights where I feel people getting manipulated to start laughing and acting crazy by the pastor standing directly next to the person and then the expectation that the person must just randomly start laughing. Looks totally fake especially when there is someone there that apparently is not filled with the holy spirit and then just looks traumatized.
But it's the truth. God is perfect. You aren't. Jesus says the standard is perfection. So yes it is you and your fault. If God were to change, He would have to change to something not perfect. The shame you feel is something to also give to God. He already knows, so there isn't fear in admission.
@@ethanmiller5487 I'm happy for you that God made it possible for you to believe, but not everyone is so lucky. Not sure what you think I should be ashamed of, or how to give shame to Jehovah. Is Jehovah ashamed of himself for all the people he fails to convince of his existence?
@EatHoneyBeeHappy I said to give the shame YOU feel to God. That isn't the same as shaming God. Is reading comprehension a problem for you?
I abso love your content please keep up the good work!
never subscribed to an open atheist so fast. You're so vulnerable and open and I cant respect that more. thank you for being level headed and able to see both sides
To the whole thing you said about it feeling off and like you’re playing with fire: you’re not off base. As a Christian, in short, the pull that you feel towards him is a distraction from where your heart, love, passion, energy, whatever you want to call it “should” be going. In my opinion, what most Christians would tell you, that pull should be towards Jesus not Steven. Aside from the Christian view, I think it’s basic human instinct feeling that way because history (among other things) tells us that someone with that much power and sway is a red flag.
Speaking from my own experience, as a dumb fresh 18 year old, I attended and volunteered at Elevation for about 8 months and dove in headlong. I started by reading his book Sun Stand Still which has a theme of “audacious faith”. There’s a story in Joshua of the sun standing still from Joshua’s audacious faith. Regardless of Furtick’s intentions in this message, it can easily be interpreted as “if you have enough faith you can make anything happen.” That’s how I interpreted it and applied it to a dream of becoming a famous musician for Christ and when that didn’t happen I went down a dark road of depression, anxiety, and identity crisis. From a Christian view, God can do whatever He wants and is not bound to our will no matter how much faith we have. He might answer yes to your prayer, but He also might not. From a non-Christian view, similar logic applies. If I have a ton of faith and harness all my energy into making gravity go up instead of down, chances are pretty damn good that’s not gonna happen. Anyways, all this to say that the things Furtick preaches given the emphasis as you mentioned (with it being about “you” and “me”) can make it dangerous. Sure you could say “Aw well you were just a dumb 18 year old with no knowledge of how the world works yet”, but I think it’s more than that. I think there are some serious undertones there that can lead to bad places for anyone. Additionally, with how self absorbed he is and some of the word stuff I’ve heard about how he is with is staff and as a person in general. It’s not safe and it’s not healthy for someone to have that much power and attention in my opinion. Especially someone as talented and convincing as him. I don’t wish any bad on him or those who listen to his sermons, but common sense and history show me that it is like playing with fire like you said. Trust your gut dude.
I was shocked how fairly and knowledgeably you handled this topic. Obviously your skepticism is honest and humble.
I think Christians often get petty and gossipy about any teacher who gain notoriety and are quick to throw them under the bus, so I tend to doubt such criticisms. However, I do think there are concerns about these churches that adopt so many techniques from the corporate world. Best to follow one’s own conscience and be sparing with our criticism of others.
Catholic here. 🙋♀️
I know elevation church very well. I have family who are employed there. They worship Steven more than they worship God. Seriously, you walk in their house, and you see a collage that Steven made them and signed it. 🤦♀️ Steven prides himself on wanting "new christians" in his church. He himself says his church is a starting point.
This was a random video to find in my feed, but I would love to see you go to a Catholic church and see true worship if you haven't already.
God bless! 🙏
As an ex Christian who grew up in church all my life this fresh new point of view is so important to me thank you. And thank you for the bass boosted sound effect
HES BACK AND ITS A BANGER!
Part of my work includes having weekly preaching content beamed into my eyeholes. I have seen quite a bit of Furtick and I have still struggled to find him doing wrong theologically. Sure, some stuff is a bit thin and errs on the self-help side, but I have never been able to do a gotcha. He's just an impeccably talented communicator.
I went to cityfirst church in Cape Coral, FL and it was a remote location from a service in Rockford, IL. Weird memories and church trauma.
Hi from Italy I'm an "independent Christian" (not catholic) and I have to admit that I love your videos and your well-manners. Thanks for your job, V.
W Jared for shouting out Jeff Nippard, he's my fav fitness dude too
Jeff is the most real fitness influencer outt there.
Jeff totally rocks. And the bromance from Dr Mike Israetel always makes me laugh
Stumbled across this video. I’m a youth pastor at a small church. I appreciate your honesty and fair assessment. I’ve watched videos where people who say they love Jesus absolutely BLAST Furtick and Elevation. This was a very respectful audit.
Hearing someone say that God spoke to them to say that "God is going to help you with the hard thing" sounds like the Christian version of a horoscope. Vague enough to be applicable to almost anyone and it sounds nice. As an "orthobro", if some priest told me that God spoke to them, I'd be very worried about them falling into prelest (spiritual delusion). We don't believe that's how it works. As a former Evangelical, I understand what he means. But knowing what I know now? It sounds dangerously close to prelest.
I don't think that he's being disingenuous at all. He seems very sincere in his approach and the little I heard here sounds nice, although perhaps not much more than self-help. But that's Evangelicalism. The thing about being deceived is that you don't know you're being deceived. If you did, then it wouldn't be a very good deception.
The monks tell us to not trust our thoughts because they can lead us astray. And by that I don't mean throw away reason or your capacity to think, I mean something more like what the Buddhists do with meditation: Be attentive. Be wakeful. Be mindful. Be in the present moment, because the present is where you can meet God. Thoughts are distractions. The Fathers call it "nepsis", something like "wakefulness".
I explored Buddhism briefly before becoming Orthodox, and it is often remarkably similar. The difference is that it offers no hope or ultimate meaning, only escape. But the practice of mindfulness is definitely something useful for everyone. The difference, I would say, is that it isn't enough on its own. It's a place to start, but there is more, infinitely more.
I always love your posts! And not just because we share the same profile picture. 😂
I did the same and you're right. The difference can also be expressed as the goal of Christianity to become fully human, the goal of Buddhism to be less human. Like that episode of Star Trek where the kid wants to be like Data because he hates having emotions.
This was a great video. As a (mostly) lifelong believer, I thought your video was fair and well thought out. I've been in very charismatic circles and I love them, but I have moved more towards solid teaching and biblical principles as I've began to age upwards. The Bible is a truly beautiful thing and it deserves the respect it asks. So I appreciated your perspective.
Ortho shout out! 😊 Hhheeelllooooooo!!
I'm a guitar effects pedal builder in the Upstate of SC, and it just so happens that everything is church history themed, and Elevation has been in my crosshairs for criticism for a long time. I appreciate the charity that I often don't have, even though we have many of the same red flags. Your point on Elevation being the last stop seems to have a lot of anecdotal support.
Why would I go to a church that just streams video from another church? I could just watch the stream in my living room while in my pajamas! 🤷🏾♀️
I’m a Roman Catholic who’s trying to figure things out, I REALLY appreciate your channel. A breath of fresh air!
Im new to the channel and I wonder why you have only 8k subs.
You've done so much man.
He's a diamond in the rough. Gotta get him to 8M.
I attended elevation for a while and was even an e-group co-leader at one point. The internal bureaucracy is maddening. That said, I have seen a great many people be blessed through it. My hope and prayer is that more of the groups continue to invite digging into the Word not just the sermon, as I will admit many of your thoughts have crossed my mind as well. I'm really glad I found your channel. I'm skeptical of everything other than Jesus your channel is a lot of fun for me. The Mormon one should be interesting since I grew up in Utah. Blessing!
Shalom normally but when with blessings, 😅
3 mins in and as a deacon myself. You are right. If you are a theology nerd. This is a church I would not recommend. The massive wealth. The cult of personality. And so much more. Anyway I’m subbed 4 mins in lol.
As a christian (obviously we respectfully disagree on the afterlife) i just want you to know that I REALLY genuinely respect and enjoy your videos.
I like to swim in the deepest darkest waters to search for truth as a future apologist. BUT, I find warmth in your videos and a welcoming place to listen to opposing views.
I sincerely hope you continue forward with what you're doing and I hope you find success.
Hopefully, I'm wrong and you're right about the afterlife.
Hope you find hope and love in your journey through the "hate".
I'm only four minutes in and this church looks like the most stressful church I have ever seen.
Stressful?
@@MLeveilleeMinistries - really loud. Plus I'm not a fan of being in large spaces crammed with people.
@@BasedPhilosophyMom I understand that very well, I'm much happier sitting with hymns, to my own devices to venerate and worship as I see fit. These concerts are severely stressful