Jared!! I was wondering when you'd drop this since you came to visit. I've been watching your videos since, and having a blast. You make good stuff! I'm glad you see a lot of the things in it that I see. If it were more controlling about beliefs or lifestyles (or more woo), I wouldn't still be organizing 7 years in. And it really doesn't have that History. We get a little awe by members sharing science facts and poetry at our Assemblies, but it's not anywhere close. Some extra context for those curious: we've been small since COVID, but in 2017-2019 we were 50+ every month, up to regularly 70 in 2019. These groups can scale! Post COVID, There's about 20 Assemblies left in the world, and the services are going to be pretty similar to ours. Nashville's, of course, has the best music. And I am WRACKING my brain to remember if we've done Katy Perry. Definitely Cyndi Lauper, though 🌈
Hey! I live in Greenville, NC about 40 minutes from Tarboro and have been looking for a community like the one you guys have as an atheist. I like the goal y’all have and not just getting others to conform to anything or pressuring people to return. It sounds like thought provoking discussions no matter the topic that everyone can chime in on and checking on how everyone is doing with their life. I’d like to come visit one day. Do you guys have a social media or anything online that announces meetings?
And they can continue being that nice while also taking that advice to become their authentic selves, leading to better mental health. I'm sure you also wish for them to be healthy in all ways, physically, mentally, etc. @@Mr.Market777
Hahahaha😂 the orthobros line really got me! That’s sooo true! Hahahahaha I can’t even. But alas, what I really appreciate about you and your channel is your honest expression of everything you encounter. I am only 20% of the way through as of this comment, but I am loving it as usual! You have actually become my favorite RUclips channel and I really look forward to your videos! (I am orthodox, but hopefully not an internet lurking Orthobro)
Us atheists have always hung out. Spoiler alert: what do you think has been happening for the last 20,000 years when people don't show up for religious things and would instead want to go fishing and would rather be chilling and brewing beer.
Atheists can still revel in the grandeur of the universe. They can still be appreciative of their place in it. I am not an atheist (my children are) but my wish is for them to find community. True love, amazement in nature, and kindness for their fellow human (I know it isn't always reciprocated). I also wish for the humanist things. Housing, food, and medical care but that's for everyone. And since this is starting to feel like a Miss America speech......world peace
I am an atheist and I am happy to be alive. I have a Bachelor's in Molecular Biology so I have marveled at a scale few are privy to and I am a life long student of the natural world. I've been called every name in the book for being so bold as to announce that I am an atheist. I have saved a minimum of 8 lives in my lifetime, directly, and some folks I have saved from dismemberment through quick action on my part. I didn't stop to think about anything cosmic. I acted and did not stop to pray or any of the like. My life has also been in danger multiple times, and again I did not seek out a higher power or an entity from one religion or another. I have a purpose in life: hoping in some small way I made this world better than the one I was born into. That's all. That is the end of my story.
I fucking love this channel lol so happy I found this. I was talking to my partner recently about how lonely it's felt since leaving Mormonism. It occurred to me that I could make my own lil church if I wanted, and I started looking around to see if there was anything like this. Definitely gonna have to look into these dudes. Keep up the insane channel quality dude
As someone who left strict evangelicalism a few years back, please do! Wherever you are, and no matter anyones religion or spirituality, we all need community like this.
Orthodox Christian here. Being is communion. So what I want for atheists is for them to have community. True community. Not gathering solely because we like or dislike something. But an actual web of relationships where they love, help, cry, and laugh with one another. I want them to be like the Gentiles St. Paul speaks about, where they have a Torah unto themselves. Where they love their neighbor as themselves and leave the world better than how they found it. Where they live in virtue, not vice. God is just and merciful and I don't believe He will abandon anyone who tries to lives this way.
@@OceanusHeliossome do try to be as grandstanding as possible, for example, the Satanists and their conventions (Not trying to generalize to all atheists btw).
What do you mean by « true community » not sure I understand. I hang out with groups of friends, with family, and play music in a band and have fun with them does that count?
I’ve really enjoyed listening to your perspectives on the churches you’ve visited. You seem to really care and respect other people’s beliefs which is so difficult for the majority of people, myself included. I think most of us can learn quite a few lessons in empathy from you. Production quality is A++ too. Really glad the algorithm suggested your channel to me
What struck me was the open discussion of peoples lives. No trying to fix it with a "its in gods hands" or "ill pray for you" or "god says its a sin to be afraid". Just I hear you, I acknowledge you, and i sympathize with you. We need spaces like this
@@jonathanfarquhar Obviously not, I was being sarcastic because my parents indoctrinated me to become a Jehovah Witness and they literally say that we born as sinners. It's wild to think people still think like that.
@@DRIVE85 oh sorry I didn't catch the sarcasm 😆. Yeah it seems everything normal human beings do is seen as sinful. It's all about controlling thoughts and actions
As a Catholic, what I hope for non believers (assuming they never convert) is that they receive and pour out as much love as possible while on earth, and make that the centre of their lives.
Another great episode! I discovered you recently from your interview on Transfigured Life and since then have watched all your Atheist Church Audit videos and am also a subscriber to your channel. I am Orthodox and really appreciate your insights and how well you manage to keep things entertaining and light-hearted even though the subject matter may not always be. I look forward to hearing about your visit to an Eastern Orthodox Divine Liturgy. Keep up the great work, and God bless you! 🙏☦️
That was funny in the end… “if you’re a JW, don’t be”. It’s like the Mafia, once you’re in, you’re in. There is absolutely no easy way out with terrible consequences. I feel so trapped, like I’m in prison, but I’m not, yet I am. It’s a conflicting emotion.
It would be awesome if you visit a Quaker meeting house. I’m not Quaker but I used to go to a friends summer camp and collection is a very odd experience that reminds me of this atheist assembly thing.
See that sense of community you received from sharing stories and feeling heard and feeling like your peers are feeling heard is why it’s so important to have community as Christians. Many leave the faith not because the trials are bigger than Jesus, but because they don’t emphasize enough that you need that feeling of community. For a lot of people church is just church and then you go home and be a human the rest of the week
Maybe it’s because I’m not American, I’m Italian and I live in Italy, I’ve been an atheist since I was born, my parents are atheists, and half of my relatives are atheists too (the other half very catholic). In Italy atheists have communities, we don’t need religion to create a community or feel part of a community. You have your family whatever you believe in, the people you grow up with, the friends you make through out your lifetime, the district/neighbour you live in, and any other sort of group of people you are part of. Honestly I’ve never felt I needed to go to church on Sunday or attend the church activities to feel as part of a community. I can be part of a community of people even if I don’t pray to any god. I love watching your videos as I love religion from an anthological point of view and I’m fascinated by the variety of churches you got in the US. But sometimes I got the feeling, and maybe I’m wrong, that in the US people are left by themselves if they stop believing in the religion of their families and communities, as their link with their family and community is through their religion. Correct me if I’m wrong! Thanks for all the cool and well made content you create and share!
People in America are largely left alone even in the protestant world. It's a very messy theology that basically tells people to go off on their own and interpret religion.
You seem to have hit the nail on the head for why people tend to leave Evangelical churches. It's arbitrary and pointless and there is no ancient tradition holding it all together. It's vapid self-help. These are among the reasons I left for the Orthodox Church. I always felt like I had to leave my humanity at the door. I now feel like I'm starting to become human again. I never knew what I was missing. I never knew about the blessed virgin Mary and how I could rightly call her my mother. She is teaching me to love again. My heart became as hard and cold as stone, and I'm now in the process of healing. Through the grace of God and the intercessions of the saints and the Theotokos (Mary) I am learning to be human once again. To feel love again. The "great cloud of witnesses" is more than just an idea, it's like I have all these friends who I can call upon for help and prayer; friends like St. Mary of Egypt, St. Nektarios of Aegina, St. Seraphim of Sarov. Their wisdom is timeless and invaluable. Their prayers are powerful, although I realize you may not believe in that. That's ok, I don't mind. And if you want to, you can still ask them to pray for you. They don't mind if you don't believe. I'm not going to try to convert you to Orthodoxy. I can't do that anyway, only God can. Even if you don't believe in God, He loves you, not because He is loving but because He is love. Orthodoxy isn't an easy form of Christianity, either. It is demanding. But I don't really see the point of being religious if you're not going to have a practice. However, if you want to learn more about Orthodoxy, the channel called Bible Illustrated is very illuminating and often humorous. Highly recommend. I fully understand why you left your faith. I am under no illusions that you weren't genuine or sincere. I was in a similar boat, but it took a darker turn for me. Let's just say I could never be a nihilist. If I didn't believe Christianity was true I'd probably be a Buddhist, if I'm being optimistic. But if you ever change your mind, the Orthodox Church will always be there. Feel free to come as you are. When I was baptized, I wore a Star Wars hoodie and jeans. And if you ever feel judged, just know that those who judge have no right to do so and are in the wrong. As for what I want from atheists, all I hope is for God to have mercy on them, and for them to understand the importance of forgiveness and humility. "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy." I cannot claim to know how God will judge anyone. But I do know that God loves mankind and doesn't want anyone to be lost. Hell isn't a prison sentence, it's more like a rebellion against love and communion. I'm no universalist, but I do hope and pray for the salvation of all, including atheists. We're all human beings, after all.
If only your god showed a fraction of the love you show. It’s nice to know some christians have empathy and feel bad that they get to live it up in heaven while their neighbors and friends are being punished (Matt 25:46) by god for eternity for simply not calling him father. It’s sad, isn’t it? If you feel this bad for strangers, imagine if they were your own children! Would you punish them in this way or do anything in your power to protect them and show them love? Eternal punishment isn’t love, and we both know that. Have a good day.
Being spiritual without being religious. I’m a traditional Catholic, but I wasn’t a part of any religion until I was 27 years old. So knowing that there’s a place where people can just connect with each other and not mock other people or push an agenda - I just think it’s beautiful. I’ve always believed that people should just love each other and bring each other in closer regardless of differences.
yeah! I hope he would do another Pascha… but at a church that does them at midnight! And a year after all the “orthobros” have been comment bombing his channel. Haha. I wonder if he would consider coming to a place in another state if his airfare was provided and a place for him to stay was given. Video or no video, I’d love for him to see my thriving and beautiful parish in Colorado Springs. Plus I think he’d get along with not just all my orthodox friends, but my atheist ones too.
To answer your question: Nah, as an (admittedly weird) Christian, I think this sounds really nice for y'all! I believe God is Goodness Itself, and I think people who aren't intellectually convinced of His existence (something very different from rejecting God out of spite imo) can still commune with Him in the common grace of Love. If you are pursuing goodness and community, you are (in my heretical opinion) on the right track.
"and if you're a Jehovah's witness, don't be" - Way ahead of you bud, left about 25 years ago. Luckily my step-dad when I was a kid talked me out of getting baptised, which made leaving much easier.
Orthobro here. I was the exact same as you 2 years ago. Follow your heart. Keep praying if God will show himself to you and keep going to church, I did that for years, I was agnostic/ a bit deistic. You will find your place. I am not going to tell you to become a orthobro. God will show you the way. Much love man, your my favourite youtuber and I think your youtube channel deserves a few million followers.
I don't think it's a dumb concept you know guys? The main goal of religion(from a social aspect) is to create a community so if atheists create places where they can meet each other and create Human Connections it's good. I think it's a good alternative to some very toxic places.
Nothing wrong with it but my question would be why call it a church? We don't have atheist mosques or synagogues. "The Sunday Gathering" is a fine name in my opinion
@@wakkablockablaw6025 oh, of course. Granted! Also, *not* worshipping God…not good. But that wasn’t being discussed or asked. Also, I bet you’d have a hard time defining “spiritually.”
You know, I’ve thought about joining a secular congregation when I have a family in order to get that feel of community, I’m sure there are other methods but I like the idea of sharing advice and moral sentiments with our fellow man on a regular basis
I really enjoyed this. I was an atheist in college and then became Mormon for 14 years and am now an Evangelical, so I've been in a wide variety of group settings and communities. I hope for my atheist friends that they will have a lot of joy and fulfillment in life. I also hope that they will have experiences and encounters that press them to ask deep questions in life and to ponder the deeper meaning of things. I think that so many people in this world are too busy and superficial to ask the most important questions of eternity. I think that people getting together and pondering the transcendent or more meaningful things in life is going to be a net positive even if they are atheists.
Hey, former Mormon here, I've been thinking about your question, and it strikes me as interesting because growing up, I always wanted people to join Mormonism because I believed it would genuinely make their lives better. I served a mission in New York and encountered a lot of people who lived rough lives and I believed that if they could adopt the Mormon lifestyle that they would be significantly better off. I still believe this. When I see Mormons who are actually living the Mormon lifestyle (this goes beyond faith) they are much better off. However, as I grew older, I'm not so certain this is the point of religion. It is certainly advantageous, and I believe anyone who adopts a religious lifestyle has a higher chance of living a less chaotic life since they'll have something to ground their beliefs in. However, that being said, I joined Eastern Orthodoxy because I'm convinced that religion is about forming a relationship with Jesus Christ which is obviously what any Mormon would say too, but words fail to describe what it was like finding Orthodoxy and realizing for the first time, I did not know Jesus. I don't follow Him because it will make my life better. I follow Jesus because I love Him, and I think that's a substantial difference. My life might be worse because of my faith it might even be worse than an atheist's life, but that's not why I go to church. I'm here to worship Christ, which may not bring joy, but it does bring fulfillment and purpose, which is honestly better.
@parker_chess There are a lot of us, which is encouraging because there's nothing worse than an ex-mormon who becomes antagonistic towards God. May they find peace in Christ.
It's possible that many modern churches that are too focused on the importance of vertical worship to the neglect of horizontal fellowship could learn something from this experiement.
@@traceyedson9652 You mean churches too focused on horizontal fellowship to the neglect of vertical worship could also learn from this experiement? I could see this exposing those failures, as well.
The intro with the perfect dramatic music describing your first moments in the service had me cracking up! Excellent video. Enjoyed hearing your perspective on what the Sunday Assembly has to offer.
I am a non-denominational Christian. If anything I could be considered a part of the Calvary Chapel movement. In my experience many of those of Atheistic or agnostic persuasions are very unkind, combative, and/or arrogant folk. Both in person, and much more so, online and in media. Those that aren't tend to be very uncomfortably apathetic. Within both those groups there is a very distressingly anti-social bent. Though it is still heartbreaking as a Christian to see you and this group outside of The Church, it is nice, and frankly very humanizing of those communities with whom there is such friction, to see both yourself and a group such as is presented in this video. I could see myself attending a group like this were it near me and I aware of it's existence. Especially if I had a friend who went. Though, as a Christian I would probably abstain from some aspects. For your question of what I would desire for the "inexorable Atheist"... I do not know. If not inexorable, and I would er on the side of there being no such thing, it is perhaps the case that no amount of suffering here on earth can out way the bringing about of salvation if it results in such. But for the inexorable it begs the question of what is the nature of good, comfort, fulfilment, suffering, pain, evil, ect. If God is good in a very commutative sense (I think/hope that is the right word) then to hope good upon the Atheist is inseparable from hoping that they draw closer to God. If God isn't then I suppose I hope that such an inexorable Atheist finds the maximum amount of comfort fulfilment and good possible in his state of separation from God. I just am not certain how realistic such a hope may be. Thank you for these videos and the work you put into them. They are helpful and thought provoking. I will be praying for you, particularly that you (and frankly everyone myself included) find, remain in, and be comforted and fulfilled by the truth.
Orthodox Christian here, fantastic video as always! I would love to one day See your reaction to attending several holy week services, including Pascha at an orthodox church. It’s something that’s hard to describe Unless you’ve been there, and it would be particularly interesting to see an atheist/ex-protestants perspective on it now that you have some familiarity.
This question at the end about what do Christians want for us? Chef's Kiss!!! I'm going to add this to my list of loving questions to give to my family when I finally come out to them!
It sounds like this atheist church is just a community group, which is cool and necessary. Even as a Christian I believe I need social interactions that aren’t built on faith first all the time. I guess my only question would be, why ape the church idea when writers groups, chess clubs, d&d clubs and all sorts of other meet ups have existed? Making it “Sunday assembly” sort of puts the idea of religion into my head, so for it to then be a casual hang out is fine, but you don’t need the guise of a religious community for that.
Why wouldn‘t atheists have this in the first place? You know there‘s places in the world where religion is but an after-thought? You think people don‘t have family and friends there? ^^
Hearing this as a Christian makes me wonder what so many of us are doing. There’s nothing biblical that says we can’t be a community, but we’re so blinded by tradition that we can’t help but essentially just have a glorified meeting every Sunday where, yes we do get a good word and learn more about God, but outside of that it’s just kind of that. I wanna see more churches be more interactive and communal like this
I'm Orthodox, former Atheist, and personally, this is beautiful. When you ask what I want for you as an atheist, [obviously I prefer and invite you to enjoy the Original Flavor of Christianity but], assuming no future return to faith, it would be exactly this kind of church. The burden of being alive is heavy enough, and to do it alone is a curse.
When I used to be a Jehovah's witness member they used to have book studies at people's houses one day during the week. Too bad that later on before I left the Jehovah's witness religion that they switched the book studies from the houses to the Kingdom Hall.
I'm part of the ACA, and we've got our Library here in Austin where we try and foster community. And boy-oh you should come on down to the Bat Cruise because it's a wonderful time.
I sometimes online attend Seattle Atheist Church. There is usually a talk by one of the attendees (ranked choice voted at quarterly meetings) followed by discussion. It was a real help to me during lockdown and until I found my music community which is now the main focus of my work and social life. Several friendships have blossomed from the group, and they are always there for nonbelievers in Seattle and anywhere. (In fact, a friend from there lives in Europe and has joined our music community as well.)
The thing about orthodoxy is you don’t have people chasing you down, trying to scare, argue you, or anything like that. From a Protestant ethos that can seem “unfriendly”. The priests are always friendly when I talk to them though. In my experience, I think what it is, is that we are more concerned with how WE will be deified and not others. It’s about cleaning the inside of the cup. I love that people leave me be 😂 I want you to visit Orthodoxy again because it’s where meaning, truth, and beauty lie. There could not be anything more conceptually meaningful and purpose filled in life than theosis.
That's because protestants think they have their salvation secured already, so they want to bring others on board. They think their cup is declared clean rather than made clean, and so the gospel is simple and easy. That makes it easy to proselytize and bring people on board, especially if you can instill the fear of hell. Prots don't understand the concept of "theosis". Closest thing some have is sanctification, but this seems like an optional second step to salvation.
I wonder how much culture has to do with how well atheists (or de-converts) are able to find organized community like that. This reminds me of a therapeutic art night my brother and his wife would put on every couple weeks. Having a community of people who can be vulnerable and not alone is something we need. At the end we’d go back to a more exclusive get together we called the ‘ottoman club’ where we’d smoke weed around an ottoman and shared music. Idk. That was the most religious I’d been since I was a JW, but I found out more about myself. But I’ve since moved out of a big city into a deeply religious, rural area where even those who go to church tend to believe more in ‘rugged american independence’ than community, so it’s harder to find something similar
Haha,,, I was unaware of anything called an ottoman other than a person from a certain empire. Was wondering what such a club would be like when you dropped the name
I actually recently visited a local Anglican church that has very recently started up (group of about 10-15 people that left the Episcopal church) that this really reminded me of. Obviously being a church it was Christ centered and very much a traditional Anglican liturgy but there was also about 30 minutes of them all sharing what’s going on in their lives much like you experienced. It was really eye opening to the benefit of having a community of genuinely caring people like that, religious or not. I do think it helps immensely to have a smaller group of people, It’s almost like most churches are too big.
18:40 great question! I don't have decades of experience in ☦Christianity, nevertheless I will answer your question. If you truly were to die an atheist, why would I expect anything of you? I'm currently reading the sayings of the desert fathers, [STORY ALERT] and one monk made a vow to never leave his cell. Later on a boy cries out from outside "come out and let me in so the hyena's won't devour me!" This poor monk had to battle all his temptation, all these thoughts, a boys very life or his vow at once! But he realized, 'this is not my battle. If God wills to keep that boy alive he will, but this is not my battle.' The boy, at this time, morphed into wild animals and this would be the monks last temptation. My cell is me, and Christ! My work and prayer and fasting and salvation is my cell and if God wills you come to the true faith and you, in YOUR battle, turn to the true faith that is between you and God.
I took a look at your patreon because I'm considering signing up. I noticed that the listed benefits for the higher tiers are all the same. There's no additional perk listed for the $25 level then for the $10 level for instance. That's making me think that each higher level must get a spicier and spicier personal letter. 😂
As a Catholic, of course I would rather all of you lads just go to weekly Mass. However, atheism is very common in these days, as well as feelings of loneliness and mental illness, so I think it nice for people to have a meeting space just to talk to others. Also, we will continue to pray for you.
Hey Jared, we’ve met before. You showed me some of your recording techniques, hanging out in your dorm room at Wheaton college. Just wanted to say I’m a Christian who loves atheism. Lol
If you want to see me a little more unfiltered behind the scenes and are interested in helping me pay for gas money to keep visiting weird churches, consider supporting me on my Patreon. I post a lot of behind-the-scenes content, unreleased music, and all members now get access to a free download of my new(ish) book. www.patreon.com/Heliocentric
So you’re reviewing an atheist “church” (which has nothing to do with religion, but nothing more than a workshop on how to tell stories) and you take the time to bash Jehovah witnesses because the congregation you went to felt like an airport…. Great job buddy. True colors there
18:40 great question! I don't have decades of experience in ☦Christianity, nevertheless I will answer your question. If you truly were to die an atheist, why would I expect anything of you? I'm currently reading the sayings of the desert fathers, [STORY ALERT] and one monk made a vow to never leave his cell. Later on a boy cries out from outside "come out and let me in so the hyena's won't devour me!" This poor monk had to battle all his temptation, all these thoughts, a boys very life or his vow at once! But he realized, 'this is not my battle. If God wills to keep that boy alive he will, but this is not my battle.' The boy, at this time, morphed into wild animals and this would be the monks last temptation. My cell is me, and Christ! My work and prayer and fasting and salvation is my cell and if God wills you come to the true faith and you, in YOUR battle, turn to the true faith that is between you and God.
@@Mr.Market777Idk if you're just trolling, probably are, but if you watch his jw vids he levies valid criticism, for starters, secondly it's a joke so take it in stride
I love your content. But its hard for me to do because you follow the popular course and just dump on my religion which is easy because no one will hold you accountable. You just assume the WORSE or the more negative reason must be the true one. Right?
As an atheist, my wish is for people of every religion to mind their own business and to quit trying to mind mine or mind what I think or mind what I believe or don't believe.
I am Catholic and I hope you are happy And fulfilled in your life as an atheist. I certainly don’t think you’re going to hell. I might pray for you, but not in a way that is hoping you’ll convert, just in a way that your life is good and you’re happy.
As a believer, I hope you have an amazing life! I believe the need for God is apparent regardless of suffering and sadness, though God helps with those things. It’s not like being a believer removes those from my life, and so I don’t think you need to suffer to find God. And, if you’re right that this life is all you have, I hope people make good of it!
Yes! JWs are expected to act like they are happy all the time. It's highly frowned upon to say that you are sad or depressed. If you make the mistake of saying this, you will be told that it's your fault. You either... • Aren't praying enough. • Aren't preaching enough. • Aren't studying the WT's literature properly.
As an apostolic believer, I hear what you mean by they were more chill and laid back and didn’t mind if u came back or not, but they don’t really have a mission or urgency for you to be saved. And also the “homey” vibe is what you would find in a small group. Which is how most Protestant churches work now.
Geez, I haven't thought about sunday assembly for years. I went there for about 3 or 4 months with my mum and sister when I was a kid cause my mum really wanted a secular church-like environment. I can't remember too much of my time there, but the memories i do have are pretty good, I remember the kids club thing being a lot of fun
Thanks for this video. Since leaving my faith 12 or so years ago, the single thing I’ve missed most has been the community of my church. I’ve been curious about atheist churches, but haven’t been overly interested in engaging in religion hating, because… why? Maybe I’ll finally make my way to the one nearest me. One day 😂
I’m from Hillsborough!! Grew up southern baptist and honestly if you would like to experience something super interesting, I would suggest going to “Coolwater Cowboy Church” in Sanford. My grandparents life long friend is the pastor, it’s held in a barn that they clean out right before the service, there’s horses, and it’s off a gravel road. Really interesting and small town and something I would love to see you evaluate! If you have any questions, please reach out and I’d love to have a conversation! Also a huge fan of your channel💛
Hey Jared, I think it'd be very interesting for you to check out a City of Angels International Church. They're quite well known for their presence at universities and that's how I got involved with them for a short time. Seemed really genuine at first but once I went to an official gathering/service, I saw red flags everywhere. Did some investigating online and they're known for being predatory towards college students since a lot of them are isolated, away from family and what not. They have some quite interesting theology points about how the church should be operating in the modern day too, like not having a dedicated building, but always be on the move, as well as being very controlling towards its members. Anyways, I'd like to see your perspective on one of these churches. Thanks for the awesome content!
You know maybe a year ago I checked UrbanDictionary for "orthobro" and came back with nothing except a definition orthopedic "orthobro" but I didn't feel qualified to write a good definition myself.
In the case of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Watchtower builds their Kingdom Halls with resale value in mind. Bland buildings that can just as easily be a bank branch, or a Dunkin’ Donuts, or even an atheist church.
Yup. It’s a real estate business. Free labor from brainwashed members. That’s why they encourage trade schools for carpentry, electric, plumbing, etc. So they can build, sell off Kingdom Halls when the value increases. Repeat.
I've been watching alot of your videos lately. I really relate to so much of what you say and it hits me hard. To the point of crying because loosing my religion was like loosing a loved one. The trauma I went through and being mistreated in the church and so much more was alot. I still continue to struggle even after so many years. I dont know if I will ever heal from this but maybe someday I will. I don't know what I believe anymore but I know I couldn't ever go back to organized religion.
This kind of reminds me of the Unitarian Universalist church. I was in that church, as their pianist ,for a little over 2 years. There service was in the early evening. I went to a united Methodist church in the morning. I was and still am a Christian. I only went to "UU" to be their musician. I played piano and organ at the Methodist church,but they didn't pay. Now, I will say I did learn some things at the Unitarian church and there were other Christians who attended. Wouldn't want to live their but it was nice to be there for a season.
You have a great style to your videos. Like the unique perspective you bring to everything. As a Christian I found your perspective of not being able to make real friends at church shocking and strange to my experience. Your question as to what Christian’s hope for life to be for someone who never comes to Christ is really something I think Christian’s should ask themselves more often. My best friend is ex catholic agnostic. He knows I pray for him and hope he comes to trust in Jesus, but regardless I want him to have the best life possible and I want to be able to assist in making that happen. That should be our position to everyone outside the Church.
I'm Christian myself (not part of any mainstream denomination but I gather with like-minded believers), I agree with the comments you've made on many church services feeling cold and corporate rather than a family of brothers and sisters. This is an actually an issue raised by other Christians. You might be interested in the book written by Frank Viola called "Pagan Christianity", which essentially gets into how over time, the function of the Churches have become more stale, and how what was once a "body of many parts functioning together" as described by Apostle Paul, has become "one mouth and one thousand ears", and has lost its original family home setting, which originally was based on 1st Century Synagogue and home-church culture. Where each person had something to say or share to edify the community. So if that's a subject you'd like to look more into, I highly recommend that book, as well as "Paul's Idea of Community" by Robert J Banks. 🙂
I’m a Protestant, leaning more towards converting to orthodoxy, and I’ve had my fair share of roommates who have been atheists. Most of them were from really radical, fundamentalist churches that hurt them and I really tried to walk them through life after church as best I could as a friend rather than someone who was still Christian (if that makes sense). One thing I noticed is that they all seemed sort of hopeless in that they didn’t have a community outside of work, after leaving church. Of course I’d want them to be Christian but I think something like this is largely good in that it can provide community to people who don’t have any. I wish my friends had something like this.
Orthodox Christian here. I want atheists to have communities that make them feel welcome and loved. I don't want them to be miserable just so they'll come back to church. Everyone should be loved and have people to love them. As much as I want atheists to be part of the Orthodox communion I don't spite them for wanting to be apart from that with their own people.
Ahhhh the orthobro comment was funny. As to what I want from atheists, I’m can’t really say in all honesty because at the end of the day as an orthodox Christian the best I can do is work out my own salvation with fear and trembling, and if others see that and are drawn Christ than glory to God. What I “want” in the in as far as I can read my own heart, is for them to find Christ and for Christ to show them what it is he wants for them. Christ will do that as he pleases to those who’s hearts are open and humble, it’s not within my wherewithal to know or to try to convince them to that end by expressing my will… THY WILL BE DONE as we say in the Lord’s Prayer. All that being said, you’ll be back *wink wink* You have to much pattern recognition and you know to much not to be
I never heard about Atheist Church, and that was so weird to hear about. I guess in a certain sense, churches are about finding a communion and people around you - when its taken away from "this is what happens when we die" aspect. As a now Atheist, I would love for this in my local place. I could still visit my previous church, but I'd love for a place with the same "vibe" without the jesus part. Just people figuring life out.
My ancestors a few generations back helped start Christ Sanctified Holy Church. There’s a branch in Raleigh you could visit if you’re looking for somewhere new to audit. They’re a bit different in beliefs from what I’ve seen you visit so far! You may find it interesting.
This seems nice. I think the world really lacks spaces where we can get together and have positive interactions with others without using some other theme like a club or sport as the main reason to go. Sometimes I want the wholesome interaction of church but i'm not feeling up to the religious aspect, and vice versa.
If you’re looking for unusual churches, some truck stops have chapel services. Sometimes it’s done in their driver’s lounge, other times it’s a semi trailer in the parking lot that’s been converted into a chapel. You’ve mentioned Raleigh NC a few times, the closest one to there that I know has a church is the Petro in Kenly NC. I’ve never been in one since I’m an atheist, but it could be interesting. Everyone in there could be a different denomination, and this could be their first or only time there, so I’ve always been curious about them.
21:15 Speaking for myself, I never got a feeling of transcendent meaning from ancient tradition and I can't imagine I ever would. In my experience, ancient tradition just makes me feel like I'm in a group of people who preserve ideas and rules whether they are good, bad or neutral just because it's the way they used to do things.
Heya. I came from Owen Morgan. I'm also an atheist but I still love religion and I love the constructions on the Vatican... Maybe cuz I love classic art... I think or because my country is the place of the three little shepherds of Fatima.😅🙋🏻♂️
As a former Orthodox Christian (now atheist), I will say that I never stop missing the transcendence part. To the point that I kind of feel like there's some fundamental human need there, with or without the god bit. Yes I miss the deep relationships I had with my church family. But I have tried attending non-church congregations like this, and although I've met a lot of great people there, it never really scratches the itch. It feels two-dimensional. And like you said, I don't know how to access that transcendence without it feeling like religious cosplay. My best guess is that some of the neolithic rituals around astronomical cycles might have had something going for them. Maybe something like a secular ritual built around the winter solstice and the idea of darkness turning back toward the light. I could see that tapping into a sense of awe that is still grounded in physical realities. But we don't even know much about the old practices around that either, so we're pretty much stuck making up something new no matter what. And maybe that new-ness is inevitably going to feel un-rooted until it develops some consistent shape and gets passed on to another generation?
The flack I would give even the kind of place you attended here, that was so comforting and warm for you, is that I find complacency in the face of existential questions and answers to be grotesque. Like, all the talk about seeking growth and teaching one another and seeking the well-being of all...I've yet to here a solid logical response on, "Why do that if none of this matters?", that comes close to acknowledging the absurd(literally) notion of living a meaningless life "meaningfully". That's my primary criticism of atheism as a considered and permanent stance, with no further digging for truth. What I would say I would want for you, even assuming you die an atheist, would be that you are surrounded by folk who love you, and especially Christian folk who love you and will pray for you even after your gone. We Orthodox have a thing on that that's too long to explain here, but suffice to say that death is the end of our own ability to make changes and repent on our own behalf, but it's not the end of opportunities for the Lord's grace to find you.
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Jared!! I was wondering when you'd drop this since you came to visit. I've been watching your videos since, and having a blast. You make good stuff!
I'm glad you see a lot of the things in it that I see. If it were more controlling about beliefs or lifestyles (or more woo), I wouldn't still be organizing 7 years in. And it really doesn't have that History. We get a little awe by members sharing science facts and poetry at our Assemblies, but it's not anywhere close.
Some extra context for those curious: we've been small since COVID, but in 2017-2019 we were 50+ every month, up to regularly 70 in 2019. These groups can scale!
Post COVID, There's about 20 Assemblies left in the world, and the services are going to be pretty similar to ours. Nashville's, of course, has the best music.
And I am WRACKING my brain to remember if we've done Katy Perry. Definitely Cyndi Lauper, though 🌈
Hey! I live in Greenville, NC about 40 minutes from Tarboro and have been looking for a community like the one you guys have as an atheist. I like the goal y’all have and not just getting others to conform to anything or pressuring people to return. It sounds like thought provoking discussions no matter the topic that everyone can chime in on and checking on how everyone is doing with their life.
I’d like to come visit one day. Do you guys have a social media or anything online that announces meetings?
"and if you're a Jehovah's witness, don't be". As a Disfellowshipped Jehovah's witness I approve this message 😆
As a former Jehovah, I too approve.
Jehovahs are one of the nicest loving people I’ve ever met
And they can continue being that nice while also taking that advice to become their authentic selves, leading to better mental health. I'm sure you also wish for them to be healthy in all ways, physically, mentally, etc. @@Mr.Market777
Also took this advice before it was dispensed
I had a good time being a JW. Much better time not.
As Jonathan Pageau says about church architecture, ‘shouldn’t it be a little nicer than your own house?’
Jonathan Pageau reference!! Let’s goooo
Don't write us off yet Jared, I am still praying for you
- An "Orthobro"
Amen ☦
Amen ☦️
Amén
☦️
☦️
Another member of the Orthobro prayer army checking in. I love your channel.
There are dozens of us, dozens I tell you!!!!!!!
We should make a fan club. 😁😂
Orthobros mentioned 🗣️🗣️💯🔥🔥
Hahahaha😂 the orthobros line really got me! That’s sooo true! Hahahahaha I can’t even. But alas, what I really appreciate about you and your channel is your honest expression of everything you encounter. I am only 20% of the way through as of this comment, but I am loving it as usual! You have actually become my favorite RUclips channel and I really look forward to your videos!
(I am orthodox, but hopefully not an internet lurking Orthobro)
Me, too!
P.S. Decided to become a S.U.S.F.I.W.B.J Tier, for this month at least. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I'm Orthodox too and I've been for a few years, it's the hardest path ⚡
Atheists have discovered “hanging out” 😂😂😂
Us atheists have always hung out. Spoiler alert: what do you think has been happening for the last 20,000 years when people don't show up for religious things and would instead want to go fishing and would rather be chilling and brewing beer.
@@OceanusHelios what’s been happening for the last 20,000 years is certainly not atheism lmfao
@@spiderb3367he was talking about hanging out....
@@Yann_Le_Coco maybe yall will discover what a joke is next 🤔
I think they're referring to Reddit atheists.
Atheists can still revel in the grandeur of the universe. They can still be appreciative of their place in it. I am not an atheist (my children are) but my wish is for them to find community. True love, amazement in nature, and kindness for their fellow human (I know it isn't always reciprocated). I also wish for the humanist things. Housing, food, and medical care but that's for everyone. And since this is starting to feel like a Miss America speech......world peace
I am an atheist and I am happy to be alive. I have a Bachelor's in Molecular Biology so I have marveled at a scale few are privy to and I am a life long student of the natural world. I've been called every name in the book for being so bold as to announce that I am an atheist. I have saved a minimum of 8 lives in my lifetime, directly, and some folks I have saved from dismemberment through quick action on my part. I didn't stop to think about anything cosmic. I acted and did not stop to pray or any of the like. My life has also been in danger multiple times, and again I did not seek out a higher power or an entity from one religion or another. I have a purpose in life: hoping in some small way I made this world better than the one I was born into. That's all. That is the end of my story.
I fucking love this channel lol so happy I found this. I was talking to my partner recently about how lonely it's felt since leaving Mormonism. It occurred to me that I could make my own lil church if I wanted, and I started looking around to see if there was anything like this. Definitely gonna have to look into these dudes. Keep up the insane channel quality dude
As someone who left strict evangelicalism a few years back, please do! Wherever you are, and no matter anyones religion or spirituality, we all need community like this.
Orthodox Christian here. Being is communion. So what I want for atheists is for them to have community. True community. Not gathering solely because we like or dislike something. But an actual web of relationships where they love, help, cry, and laugh with one another.
I want them to be like the Gentiles St. Paul speaks about, where they have a Torah unto themselves. Where they love their neighbor as themselves and leave the world better than how they found it. Where they live in virtue, not vice.
God is just and merciful and I don't believe He will abandon anyone who tries to lives this way.
Uhm, we do have community. We are literally everywhere and in your walls. We just don't have to grandstand or make a big deal about it.
@@OceanusHelioswhy is your tone so dry and scarring
@@OceanusHeliossome do try to be as grandstanding as possible, for example, the Satanists and their conventions (Not trying to generalize to all atheists btw).
Hell yeah brother
What do you mean by « true community » not sure I understand. I hang out with groups of friends, with family, and play music in a band and have fun with them does that count?
I’ve really enjoyed listening to your perspectives on the churches you’ve visited. You seem to really care and respect other people’s beliefs which is so difficult for the majority of people, myself included. I think most of us can learn quite a few lessons in empathy from you.
Production quality is A++ too. Really glad the algorithm suggested your channel to me
Truly an "Atheist Church" Audit.
What struck me was the open discussion of peoples lives. No trying to fix it with a "its in gods hands" or "ill pray for you" or "god says its a sin to be afraid". Just I hear you, I acknowledge you, and i sympathize with you. We need spaces like this
Saying it's a sin to be afraid is like saying it's a sin to be human. Spoiler alert, it is!
@@DRIVE85 Do you think telling people who are afraid which is a very natural and human feeling is a sin is actually helpful?
@@jonathanfarquhar Obviously not, I was being sarcastic because my parents indoctrinated me to become a Jehovah Witness and they literally say that we born as sinners. It's wild to think people still think like that.
@@DRIVE85 oh sorry I didn't catch the sarcasm 😆. Yeah it seems everything normal human beings do is seen as sinful. It's all about controlling thoughts and actions
As a Catholic, what I hope for non believers (assuming they never convert) is that they receive and pour out as much love as possible while on earth, and make that the centre of their lives.
Another great episode! I discovered you recently from your interview on Transfigured Life and since then have watched all your Atheist Church Audit videos and am also a subscriber to your channel. I am Orthodox and really appreciate your insights and how well you manage to keep things entertaining and light-hearted even though the subject matter may not always be. I look forward to hearing about your visit to an Eastern Orthodox Divine Liturgy. Keep up the great work, and God bless you! 🙏☦️
I love that channel!
That was funny in the end… “if you’re a JW, don’t be”. It’s like the Mafia, once you’re in, you’re in. There is absolutely no easy way out with terrible consequences. I feel so trapped, like I’m in prison, but I’m not, yet I am. It’s a conflicting emotion.
It’s the fear of the unknown that holds you back. Right after leaving, life will suck, but then it will get better. Takes a lot of courage to do it ❤
I’m so sorry to hear that. There are exJW communities... But I understand that’s it’s not your family or friend group… it’s a tough spot…
That Orthobro comment was spectacular.
It would be awesome if you visit a Quaker meeting house. I’m not Quaker but I used to go to a friends summer camp and collection is a very odd experience that reminds me of this atheist assembly thing.
See that sense of community you received from sharing stories and feeling heard and feeling like your peers are feeling heard is why it’s so important to have community as Christians. Many leave the faith not because the trials are bigger than Jesus, but because they don’t emphasize enough that you need that feeling of community. For a lot of people church is just church and then you go home and be a human the rest of the week
Maybe it’s because I’m not American, I’m Italian and I live in Italy, I’ve been an atheist since I was born, my parents are atheists, and half of my relatives are atheists too (the other half very catholic). In Italy atheists have communities, we don’t need religion to create a community or feel part of a community. You have your family whatever you believe in, the people you grow up with, the friends you make through out your lifetime, the district/neighbour you live in, and any other sort of group of people you are part of. Honestly I’ve never felt I needed to go to church on Sunday or attend the church activities to feel as part of a community. I can be part of a community of people even if I don’t pray to any god.
I love watching your videos as I love religion from an anthological point of view and I’m fascinated by the variety of churches you got in the US. But sometimes I got the feeling, and maybe I’m wrong, that in the US people are left by themselves if they stop believing in the religion of their families and communities, as their link with their family and community is through their religion. Correct me if I’m wrong!
Thanks for all the cool and well made content you create and share!
People in America are largely left alone even in the protestant world. It's a very messy theology that basically tells people to go off on their own and interpret religion.
@@BasedPhilosophyMom interesting, thanks for sharing! 🙏😊
As an Orthodox Christian who loves your channel I had a good chuckle as you called out the bane of Orthodoxy - the Orthobros 😂
Same 😂
You seem to have hit the nail on the head for why people tend to leave Evangelical churches. It's arbitrary and pointless and there is no ancient tradition holding it all together. It's vapid self-help. These are among the reasons I left for the Orthodox Church. I always felt like I had to leave my humanity at the door. I now feel like I'm starting to become human again. I never knew what I was missing. I never knew about the blessed virgin Mary and how I could rightly call her my mother. She is teaching me to love again. My heart became as hard and cold as stone, and I'm now in the process of healing. Through the grace of God and the intercessions of the saints and the Theotokos (Mary) I am learning to be human once again. To feel love again. The "great cloud of witnesses" is more than just an idea, it's like I have all these friends who I can call upon for help and prayer; friends like St. Mary of Egypt, St. Nektarios of Aegina, St. Seraphim of Sarov. Their wisdom is timeless and invaluable. Their prayers are powerful, although I realize you may not believe in that. That's ok, I don't mind. And if you want to, you can still ask them to pray for you. They don't mind if you don't believe.
I'm not going to try to convert you to Orthodoxy. I can't do that anyway, only God can. Even if you don't believe in God, He loves you, not because He is loving but because He is love. Orthodoxy isn't an easy form of Christianity, either. It is demanding. But I don't really see the point of being religious if you're not going to have a practice. However, if you want to learn more about Orthodoxy, the channel called Bible Illustrated is very illuminating and often humorous. Highly recommend.
I fully understand why you left your faith. I am under no illusions that you weren't genuine or sincere. I was in a similar boat, but it took a darker turn for me. Let's just say I could never be a nihilist. If I didn't believe Christianity was true I'd probably be a Buddhist, if I'm being optimistic. But if you ever change your mind, the Orthodox Church will always be there. Feel free to come as you are. When I was baptized, I wore a Star Wars hoodie and jeans. And if you ever feel judged, just know that those who judge have no right to do so and are in the wrong.
As for what I want from atheists, all I hope is for God to have mercy on them, and for them to understand the importance of forgiveness and humility. "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy." I cannot claim to know how God will judge anyone. But I do know that God loves mankind and doesn't want anyone to be lost. Hell isn't a prison sentence, it's more like a rebellion against love and communion. I'm no universalist, but I do hope and pray for the salvation of all, including atheists. We're all human beings, after all.
If only your god showed a fraction of the love you show. It’s nice to know some christians have empathy and feel bad that they get to live it up in heaven while their neighbors and friends are being punished (Matt 25:46) by god for eternity for simply not calling him father. It’s sad, isn’t it? If you feel this bad for strangers, imagine if they were your own children! Would you punish them in this way or do anything in your power to protect them and show them love? Eternal punishment isn’t love, and we both know that. Have a good day.
Being spiritual without being religious. I’m a traditional Catholic, but I wasn’t a part of any religion until I was 27 years old. So knowing that there’s a place where people can just connect with each other and not mock other people or push an agenda - I just think it’s beautiful. I’ve always believed that people should just love each other and bring each other in closer regardless of differences.
Honestly it sounds like we Christians could use more gatherings that are like this instead of megachurches lol
Orthodox here and i really hope to see you cover a orthodox Easter service or Holy Week
yeah! I hope he would do another Pascha… but at a church that does them at midnight! And a year after all the “orthobros” have been comment bombing his channel. Haha.
I wonder if he would consider coming to a place in another state if his airfare was provided and a place for him to stay was given. Video or no video, I’d love for him to see my thriving and beautiful parish in Colorado Springs. Plus I think he’d get along with not just all my orthodox friends, but my atheist ones too.
To answer your question: Nah, as an (admittedly weird) Christian, I think this sounds really nice for y'all! I believe God is Goodness Itself, and I think people who aren't intellectually convinced of His existence (something very different from rejecting God out of spite imo) can still commune with Him in the common grace of Love. If you are pursuing goodness and community, you are (in my heretical opinion) on the right track.
That’s not heretical, at least anciently.
@@traceyedson9652 Well, that's a relief! 😅
@@ponypublications 😂
"and if you're a Jehovah's witness, don't be" - Way ahead of you bud, left about 25 years ago. Luckily my step-dad when I was a kid talked me out of getting baptised, which made leaving much easier.
Orthobro here. I was the exact same as you 2 years ago. Follow your heart. Keep praying if God will show himself to you and keep going to church, I did that for years, I was agnostic/ a bit deistic. You will find your place. I am not going to tell you to become a orthobro. God will show you the way. Much love man, your my favourite youtuber and I think your youtube channel deserves a few million followers.
You are right . I think religious places should look comforting like an older church
I don't think it's a dumb concept you know guys? The main goal of religion(from a social aspect) is to create a community so if atheists create places where they can meet each other and create Human Connections it's good.
I think it's a good alternative to some very toxic places.
Nothing wrong with it but my question would be why call it a church? We don't have atheist mosques or synagogues. "The Sunday Gathering" is a fine name in my opinion
Traditionally the main goal of “religion” is to worship God. Internists an already-existing community.
I don't disagree but another aspect of religion is to be fulfilled spiritually. Even Satanic temples have rituals.
@@wakkablockablaw6025 oh, of course. Granted! Also, *not* worshipping God…not good. But that wasn’t being discussed or asked. Also, I bet you’d have a hard time defining “spiritually.”
You know, I’ve thought about joining a secular congregation when I have a family in order to get that feel of community, I’m sure there are other methods but I like the idea of sharing advice and moral sentiments with our fellow man on a regular basis
I really enjoyed this. I was an atheist in college and then became Mormon for 14 years and am now an Evangelical, so I've been in a wide variety of group settings and communities.
I hope for my atheist friends that they will have a lot of joy and fulfillment in life. I also hope that they will have experiences and encounters that press them to ask deep questions in life and to ponder the deeper meaning of things. I think that so many people in this world are too busy and superficial to ask the most important questions of eternity. I think that people getting together and pondering the transcendent or more meaningful things in life is going to be a net positive even if they are atheists.
Hey, former Mormon here, I've been thinking about your question, and it strikes me as interesting because growing up, I always wanted people to join Mormonism because I believed it would genuinely make their lives better. I served a mission in New York and encountered a lot of people who lived rough lives and I believed that if they could adopt the Mormon lifestyle that they would be significantly better off. I still believe this. When I see Mormons who are actually living the Mormon lifestyle (this goes beyond faith) they are much better off. However, as I grew older, I'm not so certain this is the point of religion. It is certainly advantageous, and I believe anyone who adopts a religious lifestyle has a higher chance of living a less chaotic life since they'll have something to ground their beliefs in. However, that being said, I joined Eastern Orthodoxy because I'm convinced that religion is about forming a relationship with Jesus Christ which is obviously what any Mormon would say too, but words fail to describe what it was like finding Orthodoxy and realizing for the first time, I did not know Jesus. I don't follow Him because it will make my life better. I follow Jesus because I love Him, and I think that's a substantial difference. My life might be worse because of my faith it might even be worse than an atheist's life, but that's not why I go to church. I'm here to worship Christ, which may not bring joy, but it does bring fulfillment and purpose, which is honestly better.
Former Mormon here too brother! Joining Orthodoxy too
@parker_chess There are a lot of us, which is encouraging because there's nothing worse than an ex-mormon who becomes antagonistic towards God. May they find peace in Christ.
@@parker_chess Glory to God!
@@Tyrs-Sword-Arm yeah!! Its unfortunate. The Church controls their lives so much so many people just want to leave it all and give up on God. Not me!
It's possible that many modern churches that are too focused on the importance of vertical worship to the neglect of horizontal fellowship could learn something from this experiement.
I’d argue the opposite.
@@traceyedson9652 You mean churches too focused on horizontal fellowship to the neglect of vertical worship could also learn from this experiement? I could see this exposing those failures, as well.
@@paulsinkovits but I think the whole programmatic, business model
Is a dead end.
The intro with the perfect dramatic music describing your first moments in the service had me cracking up! Excellent video. Enjoyed hearing your perspective on what the Sunday Assembly has to offer.
I thought the meta of your youtube channel with this video having like 6 million views was hillarious xD Keep up the good work.
I am a non-denominational Christian. If anything I could be considered a part of the Calvary Chapel movement.
In my experience many of those of Atheistic or agnostic persuasions are very unkind, combative, and/or arrogant folk. Both in person, and much more so, online and in media. Those that aren't tend to be very uncomfortably apathetic. Within both those groups there is a very distressingly anti-social bent. Though it is still heartbreaking as a Christian to see you and this group outside of The Church, it is nice, and frankly very humanizing of those communities with whom there is such friction, to see both yourself and a group such as is presented in this video.
I could see myself attending a group like this were it near me and I aware of it's existence. Especially if I had a friend who went. Though, as a Christian I would probably abstain from some aspects.
For your question of what I would desire for the "inexorable Atheist"... I do not know. If not inexorable, and I would er on the side of there being no such thing, it is perhaps the case that no amount of suffering here on earth can out way the bringing about of salvation if it results in such. But for the inexorable it begs the question of what is the nature of good, comfort, fulfilment, suffering, pain, evil, ect. If God is good in a very commutative sense (I think/hope that is the right word) then to hope good upon the Atheist is inseparable from hoping that they draw closer to God. If God isn't then I suppose I hope that such an inexorable Atheist finds the maximum amount of comfort fulfilment and good possible in his state of separation from God. I just am not certain how realistic such a hope may be.
Thank you for these videos and the work you put into them. They are helpful and thought provoking. I will be praying for you, particularly that you (and frankly everyone myself included) find, remain in, and be comforted and fulfilled by the truth.
Orthodox Christian here, fantastic video as always! I would love to one day See your reaction to attending several holy week services, including Pascha at an orthodox church. It’s something that’s hard to describe Unless you’ve been there, and it would be particularly interesting to see an atheist/ex-protestants perspective on it now that you have some familiarity.
He did the Sunday Paschal service, but he really should do the ENTIRE holy week experience next year. 😅😅
I think that's how everyone should be introduced to Orthodoxy this way. All 40 hours of Holy Week!
Yo what's up from an aspiring catholic, that sounds cool. My friend is taking me to my first divine liturgy this Sunday
This question at the end about what do Christians want for us? Chef's Kiss!!! I'm going to add this to my list of loving questions to give to my family when I finally come out to them!
It sounds like this atheist church is just a community group, which is cool and necessary. Even as a Christian I believe I need social interactions that aren’t built on faith first all the time. I guess my only question would be, why ape the church idea when writers groups, chess clubs, d&d clubs and all sorts of other meet ups have existed? Making it “Sunday assembly” sort of puts the idea of religion into my head, so for it to then be a casual hang out is fine, but you don’t need the guise of a religious community for that.
Jehovah's Witnesses buildings are designed to look like business to make it easier to resale in the future. Ex-Bethelite speaking here.
That explains a lot. Thanks.
You’ve called all the Orthobros my friend, bless you ☦️
As an Orthobro, I wish for you atheists to at least get to know the love of friends and family ❤
Christ lives in true love, brotherly and family
Why wouldn‘t atheists have this in the first place? You know there‘s places in the world where religion is but an after-thought? You think people don‘t have family and friends there? ^^
@@gizmomckopp1131He's answering the question in the video, friend. Don't you wish this for others?
Hearing this as a Christian makes me wonder what so many of us are doing. There’s nothing biblical that says we can’t be a community, but we’re so blinded by tradition that we can’t help but essentially just have a glorified meeting every Sunday where, yes we do get a good word and learn more about God, but outside of that it’s just kind of that. I wanna see more churches be more interactive and communal like this
I'm in the UK (rural Wales). I do wish we had this sort of thing. The nearest thing is the Unitarian churches, but not that near.
I'm Orthodox, former Atheist, and personally, this is beautiful. When you ask what I want for you as an atheist, [obviously I prefer and invite you to enjoy the Original Flavor of Christianity but], assuming no future return to faith, it would be exactly this kind of church. The burden of being alive is heavy enough, and to do it alone is a curse.
When I used to be a Jehovah's witness member they used to have book studies at people's houses one day during the week. Too bad that later on before I left the Jehovah's witness religion that they switched the book studies from the houses to the Kingdom Hall.
I'm part of the ACA, and we've got our Library here in Austin where we try and foster community. And boy-oh you should come on down to the Bat Cruise because it's a wonderful time.
I sometimes online attend Seattle Atheist Church. There is usually a talk by one of the attendees (ranked choice voted at quarterly meetings) followed by discussion. It was a real help to me during lockdown and until I found my music community which is now the main focus of my work and social life. Several friendships have blossomed from the group, and they are always there for nonbelievers in Seattle and anywhere. (In fact, a friend from there lives in Europe and has joined our music community as well.)
The thing about orthodoxy is you don’t have people chasing you down, trying to scare, argue you, or anything like that. From a Protestant ethos that can seem “unfriendly”. The priests are always friendly when I talk to them though.
In my experience, I think what it is, is that we are more concerned with how WE will be deified and not others. It’s about cleaning the inside of the cup. I love that people leave me be 😂
I want you to visit Orthodoxy again because it’s where meaning, truth, and beauty lie.
There could not be anything more conceptually meaningful and purpose filled in life than theosis.
That's because protestants think they have their salvation secured already, so they want to bring others on board. They think their cup is declared clean rather than made clean, and so the gospel is simple and easy. That makes it easy to proselytize and bring people on board, especially if you can instill the fear of hell. Prots don't understand the concept of "theosis". Closest thing some have is sanctification, but this seems like an optional second step to salvation.
I wonder how much culture has to do with how well atheists (or de-converts) are able to find organized community like that. This reminds me of a therapeutic art night my brother and his wife would put on every couple weeks. Having a community of people who can be vulnerable and not alone is something we need. At the end we’d go back to a more exclusive get together we called the ‘ottoman club’ where we’d smoke weed around an ottoman and shared music. Idk. That was the most religious I’d been since I was a JW, but I found out more about myself. But I’ve since moved out of a big city into a deeply religious, rural area where even those who go to church tend to believe more in ‘rugged american independence’ than community, so it’s harder to find something similar
Haha,,, I was unaware of anything called an ottoman other than a person from a certain empire. Was wondering what such a club would be like when you dropped the name
I actually recently visited a local Anglican church that has very recently started up (group of about 10-15 people that left the Episcopal church) that this really reminded me of. Obviously being a church it was Christ centered and very much a traditional Anglican liturgy but there was also about 30 minutes of them all sharing what’s going on in their lives much like you experienced. It was really eye opening to the benefit of having a community of genuinely caring people like that, religious or not. I do think it helps immensely to have a smaller group of people, It’s almost like most churches are too big.
I’m so glad you have a Patreon
18:40 great question! I don't have decades of experience in ☦Christianity, nevertheless I will answer your question. If you truly were to die an atheist, why would I expect anything of you? I'm currently reading the sayings of the desert fathers, [STORY ALERT] and one monk made a vow to never leave his cell. Later on a boy cries out from outside "come out and let me in so the hyena's won't devour me!" This poor monk had to battle all his temptation, all these thoughts, a boys very life or his vow at once! But he realized, 'this is not my battle. If God wills to keep that boy alive he will, but this is not my battle.' The boy, at this time, morphed into wild animals and this would be the monks last temptation. My cell is me, and Christ! My work and prayer and fasting and salvation is my cell and if God wills you come to the true faith and you, in YOUR battle, turn to the true faith that is between you and God.
I took a look at your patreon because I'm considering signing up. I noticed that the listed benefits for the higher tiers are all the same. There's no additional perk listed for the $25 level then for the $10 level for instance. That's making me think that each higher level must get a spicier and spicier personal letter. 😂
@kgrant67
Definitely. If someone pledges $25 a month to me, it's basically a full-on tome of smut at that point.
As a Catholic, of course I would rather all of you lads just go to weekly Mass. However, atheism is very common in these days, as well as feelings of loneliness and mental illness, so I think it nice for people to have a meeting space just to talk to others.
Also, we will continue to pray for you.
Why are you comparing mental illness and atheism
Please don’t waste your precious time praying for this existential nihilist. You are very patronizing.
Hey Jared, we’ve met before. You showed me some of your recording techniques, hanging out in your dorm room at Wheaton college. Just wanted to say I’m a Christian who loves atheism. Lol
If you want to see me a little more unfiltered behind the scenes and are interested in helping me pay for gas money to keep visiting weird churches, consider supporting me on my Patreon. I post a lot of behind-the-scenes content, unreleased music, and all members now get access to a free download of my new(ish) book. www.patreon.com/Heliocentric
So you’re reviewing an atheist “church” (which has nothing to do with religion, but nothing more than a workshop on how to tell stories) and you take the time to bash Jehovah witnesses because the congregation you went to felt like an airport…. Great job buddy. True colors there
18:40 great question! I don't have decades of experience in ☦Christianity, nevertheless I will answer your question. If you truly were to die an atheist, why would I expect anything of you? I'm currently reading the sayings of the desert fathers, [STORY ALERT] and one monk made a vow to never leave his cell. Later on a boy cries out from outside "come out and let me in so the hyena's won't devour me!" This poor monk had to battle all his temptation, all these thoughts, a boys very life or his vow at once! But he realized, 'this is not my battle. If God wills to keep that boy alive he will, but this is not my battle.' The boy, at this time, morphed into wild animals and this would be the monks last temptation. My cell is me, and Christ! My work and prayer and fasting and salvation is my cell and if God wills you come to the true faith and you, in YOUR battle, turn to the true faith that is between you and God.
@@Mr.Market777Idk if you're just trolling, probably are, but if you watch his jw vids he levies valid criticism, for starters, secondly it's a joke so take it in stride
Yeah, nah... Atheists are too self-important to get a stipend by others.
Find. A. Job. 🍍
I love your content. But its hard for me to do because you follow the popular course and just dump on my religion which is easy because no one will hold you accountable. You just assume the WORSE or the more negative reason must be the true one. Right?
My wish for atheists is peace and happiness.
My wish is for you to find true peace and love. I’ve found that in the Eastern Orthodox Church despite people. I wish the same for everyone
As an atheist, my wish is for people of every religion to mind their own business and to quit trying to mind mine or mind what I think or mind what I believe or don't believe.
@@OceanusHelios wherever you find true peace my friend
Nice! I’ve never heard of this community and I’m 40 minutes away in Greenville, NC. Your analysis are very informative. Can’t wait to see more!
I am Catholic and I hope you are happy And fulfilled in your life as an atheist. I certainly don’t think you’re going to hell. I might pray for you, but not in a way that is hoping you’ll convert, just in a way that your life is good and you’re happy.
As a believer, I hope you have an amazing life! I believe the need for God is apparent regardless of suffering and sadness, though God helps with those things. It’s not like being a believer removes those from my life, and so I don’t think you need to suffer to find God. And, if you’re right that this life is all you have, I hope people make good of it!
Yes! JWs are expected to act like they are happy all the time. It's highly frowned upon to say that you are sad or depressed. If you make the mistake of saying this, you will be told that it's your fault. You either...
• Aren't praying enough.
• Aren't preaching enough.
• Aren't studying the WT's literature properly.
😂 @ the orthodox Superman… We’re still praying for you though 🙏 ☦️🛐.
I live in Carrboro. Sunday brunch on the lawn of Weaver Street Market is basically a secular megachurch gathering.
As an apostolic believer, I hear what you mean by they were more chill and laid back and didn’t mind if u came back or not, but they don’t really have a mission or urgency for you to be saved. And also the “homey” vibe is what you would find in a small group. Which is how most Protestant churches work now.
Geez, I haven't thought about sunday assembly for years. I went there for about 3 or 4 months with my mum and sister when I was a kid cause my mum really wanted a secular church-like environment. I can't remember too much of my time there, but the memories i do have are pretty good, I remember the kids club thing being a lot of fun
that intro has me in tears dude lmao
Thanks for this video. Since leaving my faith 12 or so years ago, the single thing I’ve missed most has been the community of my church. I’ve been curious about atheist churches, but haven’t been overly interested in engaging in religion hating, because… why?
Maybe I’ll finally make my way to the one nearest me. One day 😂
When I was an atheist, the last thing I wanted to do was go to church
I’m from Hillsborough!! Grew up southern baptist and honestly if you would like to experience something super interesting, I would suggest going to “Coolwater Cowboy Church” in Sanford. My grandparents life long friend is the pastor, it’s held in a barn that they clean out right before the service, there’s horses, and it’s off a gravel road. Really interesting and small town and something I would love to see you evaluate! If you have any questions, please reach out and I’d love to have a conversation! Also a huge fan of your channel💛
Hey Jared,
I think it'd be very interesting for you to check out a City of Angels International Church. They're quite well known for their presence at universities and that's how I got involved with them for a short time. Seemed really genuine at first but once I went to an official gathering/service, I saw red flags everywhere. Did some investigating online and they're known for being predatory towards college students since a lot of them are isolated, away from family and what not.
They have some quite interesting theology points about how the church should be operating in the modern day too, like not having a dedicated building, but always be on the move, as well as being very controlling towards its members.
Anyways, I'd like to see your perspective on one of these churches. Thanks for the awesome content!
Another great video! My only criticism: I'm constantly freaked out by how much your thumbs naturally bend backwards. 😅👍
You know maybe a year ago I checked UrbanDictionary for "orthobro" and came back with nothing except a definition orthopedic "orthobro" but I didn't feel qualified to write a good definition myself.
You have to go to a Quaker meeting. So peaceful and happy vibes
In the case of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Watchtower builds their Kingdom Halls with resale value in mind. Bland buildings that can just as easily be a bank branch, or a Dunkin’ Donuts, or even an atheist church.
Yup. It’s a real estate business. Free labor from brainwashed members. That’s why they encourage trade schools for carpentry, electric, plumbing, etc. So they can build, sell off Kingdom Halls when the value increases. Repeat.
They kind of make me think of liminal spaces much more than anything to do with anything remotely spiritual.
@@HairyDalek Yep. Set up like a business conference. Strictly a place for indoctrination.
I've been watching alot of your videos lately. I really relate to so much of what you say and it hits me hard. To the point of crying because loosing my religion was like loosing a loved one. The trauma I went through and being mistreated in the church and so much more was alot. I still continue to struggle even after so many years. I dont know if I will ever heal from this but maybe someday I will. I don't know what I believe anymore but I know I couldn't ever go back to organized religion.
This kind of reminds me of the Unitarian Universalist church. I was in that church, as their pianist ,for a little over 2 years. There service was in the early evening. I went to a united Methodist church in the morning. I was and still am a Christian. I only went to "UU" to be their musician. I played piano and organ at the Methodist church,but they didn't pay. Now, I will say I did learn some things at the Unitarian church and there were other Christians who attended. Wouldn't want to live their but it was nice to be there for a season.
You have a great style to your videos. Like the unique perspective you bring to everything. As a Christian I found your perspective of not being able to make real friends at church shocking and strange to my experience. Your question as to what Christian’s hope for life to be for someone who never comes to Christ is really something I think Christian’s should ask themselves more often.
My best friend is ex catholic agnostic. He knows I pray for him and hope he comes to trust in Jesus, but regardless I want him to have the best life possible and I want to be able to assist in making that happen. That should be our position to everyone outside the Church.
I'm Christian myself (not part of any mainstream denomination but I gather with like-minded believers), I agree with the comments you've made on many church services feeling cold and corporate rather than a family of brothers and sisters. This is an actually an issue raised by other Christians.
You might be interested in the book written by Frank Viola called "Pagan Christianity", which essentially gets into how over time, the function of the Churches have become more stale, and how what was once a "body of many parts functioning together" as described by Apostle Paul, has become "one mouth and one thousand ears", and has lost its original family home setting, which originally was based on 1st Century Synagogue and home-church culture. Where each person had something to say or share to edify the community.
So if that's a subject you'd like to look more into, I highly recommend that book, as well as "Paul's Idea of Community" by Robert J Banks. 🙂
It’s all fun and games until you ask “why does any of this matter”
But in all seriousness love you brother good luck on your journey ❤️☦️
I’m in planet fitness cackling at your intro and Katie Perry points looking like a baffoon. 😅lol😂
I had no idea this was a thing! Maybe I should try to start something like this at my campus! :)
I’m a Protestant, leaning more towards converting to orthodoxy, and I’ve had my fair share of roommates who have been atheists. Most of them were from really radical, fundamentalist churches that hurt them and I really tried to walk them through life after church as best I could as a friend rather than someone who was still Christian (if that makes sense). One thing I noticed is that they all seemed sort of hopeless in that they didn’t have a community outside of work, after leaving church. Of course I’d want them to be Christian but I think something like this is largely good in that it can provide community to people who don’t have any. I wish my friends had something like this.
I actually live in Carrboro nc and that's pretty accurate. I'm even running for Carrboro Town Council.
Orthodox Christian here. I want atheists to have communities that make them feel welcome and loved. I don't want them to be miserable just so they'll come back to church. Everyone should be loved and have people to love them. As much as I want atheists to be part of the Orthodox communion I don't spite them for wanting to be apart from that with their own people.
Ahhhh the orthobro comment was funny. As to what I want from atheists, I’m can’t really say in all honesty because at the end of the day as an orthodox Christian the best I can do is work out my own salvation with fear and trembling, and if others see that and are drawn Christ than glory to God. What I “want” in the in as far as I can read my own heart, is for them to find Christ and for Christ to show them what it is he wants for them. Christ will do that as he pleases to those who’s hearts are open and humble, it’s not within my wherewithal to know or to try to convince them to that end by expressing my will…
THY WILL BE DONE as we say in the Lord’s Prayer.
All that being said, you’ll be back *wink wink*
You have to much pattern recognition and you know to much not to be
Where are the anti-theist churches?
I never heard about Atheist Church, and that was so weird to hear about.
I guess in a certain sense, churches are about finding a communion and people around you - when its taken away from "this is what happens when we die" aspect.
As a now Atheist, I would love for this in my local place. I could still visit my previous church, but I'd love for a place with the same "vibe" without the jesus part. Just people figuring life out.
You should visit The Experience Community Church Murfreesboro, right outside the Nashville are. If you have time of course!
My ancestors a few generations back helped start Christ Sanctified Holy Church. There’s a branch in Raleigh you could visit if you’re looking for somewhere new to audit. They’re a bit different in beliefs from what I’ve seen you visit so far! You may find it interesting.
I want you to live a happy and fulfilled life my friend. I don’t know you but I definitely love you.
This seems nice. I think the world really lacks spaces where we can get together and have positive interactions with others without using some other theme like a club or sport as the main reason to go. Sometimes I want the wholesome interaction of church but i'm not feeling up to the religious aspect, and vice versa.
If you’re looking for unusual churches, some truck stops have chapel services. Sometimes it’s done in their driver’s lounge, other times it’s a semi trailer in the parking lot that’s been converted into a chapel.
You’ve mentioned Raleigh NC a few times, the closest one to there that I know has a church is the Petro in Kenly NC.
I’ve never been in one since I’m an atheist, but it could be interesting. Everyone in there could be a different denomination, and this could be their first or only time there, so I’ve always been curious about them.
21:15 Speaking for myself, I never got a feeling of transcendent meaning from ancient tradition and I can't imagine I ever would. In my experience, ancient tradition just makes me feel like I'm in a group of people who preserve ideas and rules whether they are good, bad or neutral just because it's the way they used to do things.
Ha! "If you're a Jehovah's Witness, don't be" 😂😂. This former JW agrees.
As an actual christian, I agree as well
Not to be the “well actually” guy, but our parish does have a wall full pictures of our parishioners.
Peace to you, my friend.
Heya. I came from Owen Morgan. I'm also an atheist but I still love religion and I love the constructions on the Vatican... Maybe cuz I love classic art... I think or because my country is the place of the three little shepherds of Fatima.😅🙋🏻♂️
As a former Orthodox Christian (now atheist), I will say that I never stop missing the transcendence part. To the point that I kind of feel like there's some fundamental human need there, with or without the god bit.
Yes I miss the deep relationships I had with my church family. But I have tried attending non-church congregations like this, and although I've met a lot of great people there, it never really scratches the itch. It feels two-dimensional. And like you said, I don't know how to access that transcendence without it feeling like religious cosplay.
My best guess is that some of the neolithic rituals around astronomical cycles might have had something going for them. Maybe something like a secular ritual built around the winter solstice and the idea of darkness turning back toward the light. I could see that tapping into a sense of awe that is still grounded in physical realities. But we don't even know much about the old practices around that either, so we're pretty much stuck making up something new no matter what. And maybe that new-ness is inevitably going to feel un-rooted until it develops some consistent shape and gets passed on to another generation?
The flack I would give even the kind of place you attended here, that was so comforting and warm for you, is that I find complacency in the face of existential questions and answers to be grotesque. Like, all the talk about seeking growth and teaching one another and seeking the well-being of all...I've yet to here a solid logical response on, "Why do that if none of this matters?", that comes close to acknowledging the absurd(literally) notion of living a meaningless life "meaningfully". That's my primary criticism of atheism as a considered and permanent stance, with no further digging for truth.
What I would say I would want for you, even assuming you die an atheist, would be that you are surrounded by folk who love you, and especially Christian folk who love you and will pray for you even after your gone. We Orthodox have a thing on that that's too long to explain here, but suffice to say that death is the end of our own ability to make changes and repent on our own behalf, but it's not the end of opportunities for the Lord's grace to find you.