The theory of fundamental evil.

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  • Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 130

  • @acerolaorion183
    @acerolaorion183 3 года назад +648

    “The fake is of greater value. In its deliberate attempt to be real, its more real than the real thing.” - the line that remained in my mind even after watching the whole monogatari series.

    • @drawforge9640
      @drawforge9640 2 года назад +13

      Thing is -this becomes a dilemma
      Making the fake more real than the original real one makes the fake the " new real" then as the old real is not as real ,it ,in comparison is a fake one.then again ,as the fake deliberately attempts to be real it becomes more real
      So then, who is truly real?

    • @acerolaorion183
      @acerolaorion183 2 года назад +36

      @@drawforge9640 I think that the one who's truly real is the original real thing. Because the fake only mimicks the real and the fake wouldn't also be able to mimick the real if the real one doesn't exist. Although when you compare the real and the fake, the fake would be of much greater value because of its effort to be more real. But that doesn't mean the real one would lose its value as the real thing.

    • @drawforge9640
      @drawforge9640 2 года назад +4

      @@acerolaorion183 does the truth really exist?

    • @drawforge9640
      @drawforge9640 2 года назад +14

      @@acerolaorion183 lmao with these comments i can hear suttekimeppou in the background

    • @acerolaorion183
      @acerolaorion183 2 года назад +4

      @@drawforge9640 True. It's the effect of listening too much of monogatari series dialogues 😂

  • @dixieenormis1783
    @dixieenormis1783 3 года назад +571

    The more i grow older, the more shit in Monogatari makes sense

    • @majungasaurus6814
      @majungasaurus6814 3 года назад +23

      Pretty much lmao

    • @Alacachoo
      @Alacachoo 3 года назад +13

      Yeesss dude.

    • @princeofasturias
      @princeofasturias 3 года назад +14

      True and that's why I will be rewatching Monogatari in 5 years or so

    • @Anon-qp3kt
      @Anon-qp3kt 2 года назад +6

      Obviously since it was written by an adult

    • @JohnDoe-jf4uj
      @JohnDoe-jf4uj 2 года назад +7

      @@Anon-qp3kt for an adult.

  • @Boyzby
    @Boyzby 4 года назад +421

    One of the most powerful scenes I've watched in the series. With this one two minute scene, my image of Kaiki did a complete 180.

  • @knmfujiwara
    @knmfujiwara 5 лет назад +416

    This scene is beyond underrated.

    • @Alacachoo
      @Alacachoo 3 года назад +4

      I concur.

    • @DarioKalen_Kagenui
      @DarioKalen_Kagenui 3 года назад +2

      Facts.

    • @iyar220
      @iyar220 3 года назад +1

      I 4th this. Came to rewatch it once again

    • @heielark
      @heielark 3 года назад +1

      it still 9 year, i got 1 year left to understand what shes talking about

    • @tulirongtuliro
      @tulirongtuliro 2 года назад

      this sh*t is the only thing I remember from this show lol

  • @Brettlaken
    @Brettlaken 3 месяца назад +15

    I genuinely tear up every time I hear the Kaiki quote. All three perspectives are correct, yet Kaikis is by far the most unexpected and philosophical one.
    The fake sister Tsukihi acting much more like a sister.
    Karen ends up being a hero despite only playing one initially (like childs play).
    Everything about Kaiki himself. A fake specialist, who only lies and deceives for money, yet he is more specialist than any of the other specialists. He even goes multiple layers deep, not only being a conman, but even being a fake conman.
    The Fake parents of an orphan who pretend but act much more like a real family. (Also something like fake family in Spy x Family).
    An indistinguishable art replica which took much more effort than the original piece.
    And so so much more.

  • @MrAikoxz
    @MrAikoxz  8 месяцев назад +37

    It's been 8 years since i uploaded one of my favourite scene on youtube - I just realised the comments are shut off for some reason.
    I want people to always discuss and talk about this because it make so much sense on a philosophical view.
    And i'm surprised this underrated scene is hitting almost 100k.

    • @vercado5654
      @vercado5654 4 месяца назад +3

      whenever i want to rewatch the whole show but can't , i come here , look it up , rewatch this scene , sight and think deeply about it
      i enjoyed the monogatari series a lot as it felt like a real story a true sense-full story that revolve around nonsense , as nonsense to me is by far the most meaning-full thing there is , for a good comedy is one full of stupid , crazy-like nonsense whereas , a good drama is one full of frustrating yet well calculated nonsense , the same is true for all genres as well as life , we human knows not of good yet we know how to distinguish between good and evil , from the moment we are conscious and aware of our self as a single existence ( once we get a 3rd person point of view thus can divide our self from our environment or even further our (mind/soul?) from our physical body ) in other words becoming self aware
      different from other animals that knows exactly what is good through their instincts thus are unable to do evil as they feel no need to do it and therefore they need no smarts , we humans can make the choice , by feeling bad we either cowardly embrasse it do the act becoming the likes of a criminel or reject it as it's supposed to be
      the reason why we can distinguish between good and evil is that even though we can't tell what is good (unless it's a good thing for us (since we feel good about it ) ) but we still can tell what is bad/evil ( we feel bad doing it in front of others we hesitate often before doing it if we end up doing it that is and we feel guilt once it's done instead of moving on )
      is our ability to feel the bad
      what am saying is that for us it's evident when something good or bad happens to us and when it does we categorise it as good or evil but two different people categorise one same thing differently from each other which end up with us inflecting evil to another but thanks to our ability to feel the bad we do , such things rarely happens at least rarely without us knowing about it , it mostly happens deliberately materialized under the form of a crime , a mean act or something trivial to one self's or another's
      perhaps , what truly distinguish between humans and other animals is these feelings of us and those instincts of theirs
      A man needs no light for it sees the beast and the leaves ( look up at the nature when you are lost it just might show you the way ) or so i say

    • @mayoat.y
      @mayoat.y 4 месяца назад +2

      @@vercado5654 Beautifully put together

    • @smokymcbobby5123
      @smokymcbobby5123 Месяц назад +1

      100k achieved !

  • @odd1ty612
    @odd1ty612 3 года назад +281

    To those who don't get, Kaiki's point is that a fake that is so good that it can pass as the real thing should be considered more valuable than the real thing. Think of Kaiki himself-- he uses fake oddities. He doesn't even believe that oddities are real. If you think about it, Kaiki must be a better oddity specialist than the others because *he is able to make oddities that are indistinguishable from the real thing* .
    Think about how knowledgable about oddities you have to be to in order make a fake oddity that works as well as the real thing...

    • @majungasaurus6814
      @majungasaurus6814 3 года назад +124

      I think kaiki's point was that the fake person actually has to make an attempt to be good but the real one is good just by nature without doing anything. When the fake does a deliberate attempt to be good, it becomes more value than the real thing who doesnt attempt at all

    • @ginomikha8617
      @ginomikha8617 3 года назад +9

      While i doubt that was Kaiki's point when he was making that argument, i do gives some thought about this.
      as far as i know, out of the three of them the only one thay can make oddities is Kaiki. and as far as i know, the only other person who can make oddities is Hanekawa. So i do think Kaiki is as strong as Oshino and Kagenui.

    • @majungasaurus6814
      @majungasaurus6814 3 года назад +16

      @@ginomikha8617 you dont really need to be special to create an oddity, anyone can create an oddity, araragi almost created a stone oddity

    • @conscriptreporting6265
      @conscriptreporting6265 3 года назад +15

      the fact that kaiki doenst believe in oddities make him one of the best anti oddities out there, if he doenst believe, they wont affect him, and at the same time he is an specialist that can deal with that oddity (i just think it wont quite work against immortal oddities, but Gaen wanted him there when Shinobu's minion was revived, maybe he is also good at dealing with them)

    • @majungasaurus6814
      @majungasaurus6814 3 года назад +1

      @@conscriptreporting6265 oddities still affect him, the snake god affected him even though he didnt believe in oddities

  • @DarioKalen_Kagenui
    @DarioKalen_Kagenui 3 года назад +129

    Everyone says that this scene made Kaiki better but no one talks about Kagenui. 😭 Like, the first half of what she says isn't Kaiki's thing. And people also don't see all her resolution and change of philosophy, like if it wasn't important. Such a shame.

    • @Lftarded
      @Lftarded 3 года назад +9

      It's something to think about tho, are humans evil but does good things or good but does evil things?

  • @th1cc
    @th1cc 2 года назад +26

    monogatari is so good, every arc is solved through dialogue and character growth instead of fighting

  • @Kakakaka-ri2kr
    @Kakakaka-ri2kr 2 года назад +14

    Wow, Kagenui, Oshino and Kaiki's answer to that question shows just how much their character are different huh

  • @Varue
    @Varue 2 года назад +51

    i think humans are neither good or evil, fundamentally. it's just a generalization made in attempt to justify some act. but no act needs justification in a vacuum. it only needs justification in context. and in context, there is no fundamental truth, only the truth of the situation at hand.
    i actually side with oshino on the worth of fakes vs. real. the question is which is worth more? an indistinguishable fake is basically the same thing as the real. in kaiki's view, because the fake is trying to be real, and succeeds, it is worth more. because it is deliberately trying to be the thing which it is copying. but i would say that they are of equal worth, because the fake is only worth more from the fake's perspective. from everyone else's perspective, the fake is indistinguishable, so it might as well be the real thing itself. so to everyone but the fake, it IS real. thus it is of equal value.

    • @BikramKumar-uy8nl
      @BikramKumar-uy8nl 2 года назад +1

      A very nice explanation. Thank you for this.

    • @anonymousstout4759
      @anonymousstout4759 2 года назад

      In regard of human being born as evil or good. I think human are born with good in evolution perspective good doer will likely put your in advantage to propagate. By evolution stand point we should have been born ingrained in our genetic code to be good. Not very philosophical approach but watching other species like Shoebill who will instinctly kill other siblings even before their born or right after they born from human perspective they're born evil?
      Regarding the fake or real one I agree with you if the fake one become indistinguishable they fake one ceased to be a fake and which one worth more become irrelevant

    • @vercado5654
      @vercado5654 4 месяца назад

      "no act needs justification in a vacuum. it only needs justification in context. and in context, there is no fundamental truth, only the truth of the situation at hand"
      is what you said , but by following your way of thinking the value of the fake is still worth more than the real or will be at a certain point , for no matter what real and fake we are talking about can we truly consider the real's value as the limit ?
      the fake is attempting to be of equal value as the real which means that it recognize the fact that it's of lesser starting value and is trying to equal the real's value but again is the real value truly the limit ? what if it's not ? how about considering the possibility of the fake surpassing said real value ?
      let us talk money like kaiki would , all us here knows what the "us dollar" is so let make it the "real thing" as it was the first of it kind as for the "fake" let it be the "euro" could we talk about the values of the two changing ? the same for the other 7 forms of currencies surpassing the ("us dollar" )' s value
      oh and your comment was truly pleasant to read for that u got my thanks kind sir

  • @aldricadalia3938
    @aldricadalia3938 4 года назад +77

    The reason why i watched monogatari

    • @GM.Nobody
      @GM.Nobody 4 года назад +5

      My favourite scene of all time

  • @fallenzy.314
    @fallenzy.314 3 года назад +33

    This show is more than a show, its a life lesson

  • @jayzunalaunan330
    @jayzunalaunan330 4 года назад +21

    Nisemonogatari in MyAnimelist is 9/10. Best and favorite scene so far.

  • @EmptyCrux
    @EmptyCrux 2 года назад +6

    a bad person in their attempt to overcome their true evil self, it makes them more valuable than someone who is already good by nature. We were born as impure beings but we decided to become a better person by rejecting the ugliness and creating a new better version of ourselves.
    A branded bag obviously more valuable than a fake bag, but when a fake can fool anyone to think that it's a branded bag then the fake is become more valuable. It's not because of the quality or material of the bag, but it's because of the ability of the fake bag that makes it far more special than the real bag.
    Mencius appreciate the quality of human
    Xunzi appreciate the effort and process of human

  • @SuM1M0
    @SuM1M0 3 года назад +44

    kansai dialect is hot af

    • @randomblackcat6463
      @randomblackcat6463 3 года назад +1

      Do you know himeko from sket dance?
      They share the same va so yes kansai dialect is hot

    • @hukama6911
      @hukama6911 2 года назад

      I think it's because the va sound hot

    • @casterhook4988
      @casterhook4988 3 месяца назад

      kansai is a group of dialects i think she is speaking kyoto dialect

  • @MinhVu-ip1yp
    @MinhVu-ip1yp 2 года назад +12

    Everyone talking about philosophy
    Ononoki: >_

  • @mehnottoday
    @mehnottoday 3 года назад +11

    I didn't realize her accent... It's kinda sweet actually

  • @yakisoba1816
    @yakisoba1816 3 года назад +101

    When you apply that to femboys we can actually say that femboys are far greater than normal girls kaiki's philosophy supports this!

    • @blupuncakes8458
      @blupuncakes8458 3 года назад +85

      It's philosophy and not a fact because it can be challenged. You're just into men, that's all.

    • @totogalmarini2245
      @totogalmarini2245 2 года назад +23

      @@blupuncakes8458 based take

    • @fackyoutube8452
      @fackyoutube8452 2 года назад +1

      Ye you’re just gay, come out the closet

    • @BladeXian
      @BladeXian 2 года назад +5

      Can still be distinguished from one another.

    • @ar_1178
      @ar_1178 7 месяцев назад

      No because the attempt wasn't good enough, if they were a true femboy they would be indistinguishable from a female thus making it more female because it's female + deliberate. To summarise the version of Kaiki's philosophical of femboy would just be someone who is indistinguishably a female deliberately (would it matter if at the start they were male or female? Based on his philosophy they wouldn't, they just need to be indistinguishable and deliberate when observed)

  • @darkglass3011
    @darkglass3011 3 года назад +7

    We all have good and evil in our hearts, but when it comes to a choice between the two, we will choose good every single time.
    -- GokaiPink from Kaizoku Sentai Gokaiger

  • @impmadness
    @impmadness 3 года назад +20

    Kagenui is so awesome, such a shame she dipped before Araragi could shoot her with the donut ray gun

    • @Stryfe52
      @Stryfe52 5 месяцев назад

      The what? Lol

  • @mRidley508
    @mRidley508 2 года назад +5

    I guess since araragi strives to be human, he beceomes even more human than someone who hasn't lost their humanity yet.

    • @Wandering_Weeb
      @Wandering_Weeb 5 месяцев назад +1

      That's true but the one she was talking about was Tsukihi

    • @Stryfe52
      @Stryfe52 5 месяцев назад

      I reject my humanity, Jojo!

    • @casterhook4988
      @casterhook4988 3 месяца назад

      @@Wandering_Weeb thank god that was my doubt ever since i watched this scene

  • @cioparcarmalaieizian8997
    @cioparcarmalaieizian8997 3 года назад +7

    thinking about UBW ending

  • @no1ce688
    @no1ce688 2 года назад

    thats why Kaiki is best girl, Kaiki's deliberate attempt of unconsiously being a cool "hero" made him far more precious than that thus everyone somehow agreed to put him in "bestgirl" category

  • @Saplingbat
    @Saplingbat 3 года назад +18

    The way she says "Kakkoii yo" in that accent does things to me

    • @Stryfe52
      @Stryfe52 5 месяцев назад

      You and me both… you and me both

  • @TonboIV
    @TonboIV 2 года назад

    I came back to this because I'm watching Spy X Family, and it fits so beautifully.

  • @HomuHomu310
    @HomuHomu310 2 года назад

    A very good and honestly realistic theory. And as I grow older, I believe in it more and more myself

  • @ReXiRa787
    @ReXiRa787 2 года назад

    And ononoki just sitting there lifeless after getting her ass whooped by shinobu

  • @youngle9381
    @youngle9381 3 года назад +2

    truly special

  • @Aan-kun
    @Aan-kun 2 года назад +1

    Ngl i.... Don't remember this being in kizu at all. I need to watch this fking show again now that I'm much older

    • @royocume1104
      @royocume1104 2 года назад

      it was in nise

    • @Aan-kun
      @Aan-kun 2 года назад

      @@royocume1104 EXACTLY. I don't even remember that

  • @dustymage5261
    @dustymage5261 3 года назад +1

    and obviously kaiki will prefer something more VALUABLE.....hence being a fake

  • @小山雅之-o8t
    @小山雅之-o8t 2 года назад +1

    『自己』と『それ以外』に分け、
    更に、
    『それ以外』を
    『善』と『悪』に分け、
    その上で、
    どちらが本質か議論する。
    『親迷いの上に、子迷い載せえて、子迷いの上に孫迷い載おせええて、』

  • @ericLpereira1989
    @ericLpereira1989 2 года назад +3

    Reminds me of the the great Paarthurnax's "What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature with great effort?". However, the context of Paarthurnax is of someone striving to be good for goodness sake. The one here, in wich seems to include the case of Kaiki, is of someone striving just to pretend to be good for it's own self interests.
    ....however....then again, how can we really dissociate, at least pratically, someone who is striving to be good for goodness sake, from someone who is doing it for it's own selfish purpose? If someone values what is not the beneficts of his own self, woudn't that become nonetheless his own self interest? And, in way, his own self?
    I see it quite difficult to give a straight, technical answer, if not impossible. Quite mind-blowing. However, it might be valuable to highlight that someone who seeks only to do "good" for it's own immediate benefict, will problably seize to do it if obtaining enough power. While one who indeed do good for feeling good about it, will problably continue to do it if power is gained. That's the only thing that makes me perhaps agree with Kagenui on wich to deposit more value.

  • @aathishvinoj3700
    @aathishvinoj3700 3 года назад +9

    Which episode is this, I want the time stamp for my year book

    • @Mercure250
      @Mercure250 3 года назад +3

      Episode 11 of Nisemonogatari

  • @CGRADT
    @CGRADT 2 года назад +1

    Holy underrated

  • @elpepe-gb2cv
    @elpepe-gb2cv 3 года назад +2

    Whats the ost name

  • @heielark
    @heielark 3 года назад

    this scene ..

  • @badpast1958
    @badpast1958 3 года назад +2

    i think what it means is that the real would a be a real, but the fake would want to be real instead of the real aldreading being real, the fake desires more need to be real so the value of the fake of being real is higher? mbye im dumb

    • @Mercure250
      @Mercure250 3 года назад +6

      I think it's more, like, the real is already real, it doesn't have to try to be like the real thing because it's already the real thing. Meanwhile, the fake has to put extra effort to be like the real thing. This effort has value, which makes the fake more valuable.

  • @eliottcms
    @eliottcms 2 года назад

    whats the song that plays in the background ?

  • @vp7877
    @vp7877 3 года назад +4

    literally Shirou in a nutshell

  • @z00lander83
    @z00lander83 3 года назад +3

    Was going to like this video but in good conscience I can't change the count from 666

  • @uur4192
    @uur4192 3 года назад +5

    Which episode is this

    • @jorgemaravilla5733
      @jorgemaravilla5733 3 года назад +3

      One of the last episodes of nisemonogatari, not sure which one tho. I believe its the last one and if not the one before

  • @majungasaurus6814
    @majungasaurus6814 3 года назад +7

    Anyone know the ost that plays here?

  • @georgeadusei1003
    @georgeadusei1003 2 года назад +1

    Me personally, I'd like to see the good in the bad, the truth beyond the lies. Lies so honest and cherished so much, they becomes true. Even if the world is built on lies, strip all that away, at it's core, there's truth. The lies may eventually lead to the truth. You can't really have one without the other. At the of the day, no who Araragi goes against, and what he learns in life, he has to pick his own truths.

  • @kajohara
    @kajohara 2 года назад

    how can she stand on the floor if she has a malediction?

  • @sunset-inn
    @sunset-inn 3 года назад +1

    OST name?

  • @baukiokun8572
    @baukiokun8572 6 месяцев назад

    Lemme get a fake math test

  • @vmmd8229
    @vmmd8229 2 года назад +1

    I HAVE AT LAST FOUND MY FAVORITE LINE IN ANIME HISTORY EVER!
    *Why ? Because I can relate to the fake , given my limited funds as a kid/teen I am just able to buy just the replica/bootleg and I WAS HAPP ENOUGH WITH THE FAKE BECAUSE IT LOOKS AND FEELS REAL AND THAT ALONE I AM SATISFIED WITH THA

  • @patiphankorsrisuwan2788
    @patiphankorsrisuwan2788 3 года назад +1

    It said in genesis 6:5 all human are evil.

  • @AlastorNahIdWinRadioDemon
    @AlastorNahIdWinRadioDemon 2 года назад +1

    This entire conversation is actually entirely wrong though because to be good or evil involves morality.
    Morality requires understanding.
    Understanding involves being to able to perceive the world and interact with it, as in to be sentient.
    Humans are not born with this sentience, so in all actuality humans are neither born good nor evil, and are simply neutral, and what makes a person good is how much the world tries to corrupt them to do evil and their reaction to that, choosing to give into it, remain neutral and ignore it or to decide fuck that and do the exact opposite. By this logic the more factors that give one reason to try and do something evil, desire, capacity, opportunity, legality, etc. And one still choosing to not do it even though there's absolutely no reason outside of, "I personally think that's wrong," is the ultimate show of if someone is good or evil. The easier it becomes to do evil without issue and yet choosing to not do so, or even better, choosing to fight against it, is what makes someone good.
    As an example, lets say someone does something mildly wrong to you and you want to kill them. You also have the ability to do so, with the opportunity to do it immediately. Doing so is not illegal. Do you kill them? I personally wouldn't, because I believe only those who do horrendous things to others deserve death via another human being, as in I think it's wrong to kill them for that reason. Some people would do it though because they can. That's what the difference between a good and evil person is, making a choice to do something hard or easy that affects other living things. Good and evil are inherently connected to making choices, so nothing that cannot make a choice can be inherently good or evil, it just depends on how it's used by people who make choices with it.

  • @cixzejy
    @cixzejy 2 года назад

    Guys Kaiki said Trans Rights