Ramón Novarro, Hollywood's First Gay Icon
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- Опубликовано: 27 фев 2016
- Stewart Copeland talks about Ramón Novarro (Ben-Hur), who became Hollywood's first gay icon in the MGM 1925 silent film Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ.
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Navarro may not have been a buff, but he did a have a beautifully handsome face, intense eyes and a beautiful smile.
era un actor Mexicano,primo de Dolores del Ríos ambos triunfaron en Hollywood.
He was a very handsome man and had a wonderful singing voice, too. I read he was cousin to Dolores del Rio. A big star during the silents at MGM.
After her career faltered she returned to Mexico to make movies, staying there a long while. Roman went to Mexico, made a movie, but returned to CA. He could have had success there too in Spanish Films. Pity for us he made a lot of bad choices. After seeing recently Ben Hur I became a fan of silent films, and of Roman. Just finished a biography on him that is great. Beyond Paradise by Andre Soares.
I wish we still had less of a 6 pack standard of male beauty.
Many do, but while Novarro worked out each morning the Studio was unhappy with is muscles. So they used make up artists to create his look. He later remarked that movies are all illusions. Bushman would stand in a lower level to equal their heights. In his biography Novarro is said to be 5'6". Beyond Paradise is a good read.
@@bholmes5490 Thanks!
@@reagandenny I just ordered The Big Steal with Roman, Mitchum. Novarro was offered more movie roles after this but turned down the offer. But in this film you can see a good performance of a talented actor. I wish he had made the other films.
6 packs are overrated and they fade rapidly with time.
Especially in the gay male community. There is far too much emphasis on youth and chiseled body, and if you don't quite meet the requirements you don't register on the mind of many males. Just look at any hook-up site and how many follow the "under 40, no fats or fems" style listing. That rules out a lot of very interesting people that don't quite meet all the requirements. I was always attracted to older men, and an average man with an intelligent mind (for example, a scientist, musician, or college professor) is be far more appealing than a 20 years old with a body of a Greek god.
I think this guy is WAAAAY too critical of Ramon's body.
Not a single modern day actor would come close to being handsome, graceful, or having the charisma of Ramon Navarro, Cary Grant, Tyrone Power, Douglas Fairbanks Jnr, Montgomery Clift, Rock Hudson, Randolph Scott or William Holden (to name a few).
Not that it matters, but William Holden was not gay.
The comment does not mention those men were non-heterosexuals. There're handsome men acting in 2021. There's always physical beauty represented with those who are thespians. Regardless of an era. lol People always comparing when there's no comparing at all.
I agree with you. Most actors don't have it anymore. But I think that british actors in the last few years got something similar like Colin Firth, Benedict Cumberbatch, Tom Hiddleston
His smile is excellent
AND Valentino!!!
He's beautiful, definitely.
He is still coming up as a gay icon of Hollywood with Rudolph Valentino... as next after!
But i belive they both are worth much more respect as actors, and humans, than just being gay!
Valentino was gay???
Although there's "rumor" of Valentino being gay, it was never a proof.
Maestro Copeland's score for Ben-Hur is a masterpiece that stands on its own -As a professional classical musician myself, I've never heard a finer, lush orchestration of a legendary silent film, in perfectly times and matched expression of the film. It makes a mockery of hammy scores like the 1956 The Ten Commandments remake.
Ramon is outstanding in that film and did you notice that his older co-star, Francis X. Bushman, definitely rocks some muscles.
Might be, but for Novarro the studio was unhappy with his muscles. They had him doing workouts, in the end they painted muscles on him. Ramon, himself in an interview, said it was all illusion. As he was shorter than Bushman, Bushman would stand in a rut so they appeared the same height. Hollywood. Tom Cruise is short. No doubt Hollywood is still the same. Smoke and mirrors. Might I add FUN! Film techniques are clever.
Francis X. Bushman was the Chris Hemsworth of the day. VERY muscular and cut...just google him and image...his biceps were as big as my thighs!
@@tompecena8573 I read that he was an artist's model and posed as historical figures in statues around the U.S. His career predated the movies: he appeared in "magic lantern" shows before films. Became a big star and now nearly forgotten.
A hundred years ago a nice male body was natural looking. Nowadays it is exaggerated to the extreme like everything else. Few people look like Henry Cavill. It is hard to relate to someone like him as he is near perfection.
Excellent Mexican actor!!
William Haines was Hollywood's first gay icon. Bill Haines was openly gay, whereas Ramon was closeted throughout his career.
He kept it personal his whole life. Only a few knew his secret. Apparently he was torn about it. Perhaps leading to alcohol addiction, fight with himself about his sins and the Catholic Church , which he loved. Haines lived his life openly with the man he loved. The manner of Novarro's death exposed his life.
@@bholmes5490 And look how long Hollywood fought to keep their gay actors' lives secret!
you're right! I love William Haines movies and his personal story
@@Fantomas4616 "Wisecracker" the book on him is fabulous
@@martynnotman3467 right. Love that book and still have it
The dude was beautiful as he was. Nothing about that body to be ashamed of, even by today’s unrealistic standards.
✌🏻🙂✌🏻
i find him extremely charming and playful in his films, my FAVORITE being 'the student prince' 1927
He did have a beautiful voice. I read he really wanted a career in opera.
He thought himself a singer. His mother was, and taught him to play piano and sing. He didn't have the opera voice , however, and neglected his movie roles. A huge blow to his profession was the loss of his friend, Director Ingram who watch out for him and choose the rolls that were good for him. The studio used his popularity but gave him some bad roles. While Novarro in some roles had good reviews the Directors did a poor job. Hence, when the studio stops making money the star is a has been. He was let go, not because he was gay, but because he was gaining weight, and looking older than the parts Metro was giving him. His audience just didn't carry him through. In 1949 he did a picture, and was asked to do a serious of them. He said no. He made a lot of choices that seem odd for someone wanting to return to his fame. His episode on Bonanza is a good feature of his talent. and height.
Ramón Novarro is an American classic.
Mexican 🇲🇽
@@andresmora5192 How about Mexican/American? He was beloved in both countries.
And yes Romon was most definitely gay, it's in Scotty Bowers tell all book about men that were secretly gay and that's all good with me
😮 whoa! The last person I would expect to see is Stewart Copeland narrating this!
I didn't know he was gay. He was a wonderful actor, very believable in whatever he played. Both he and Dirk Bogarde were intuitive actors. They appeared to love women and embrace femininity (the quality of being a women).
Bogarde was gay also.
Dirk was with his husband/partner for 20 years until they both died around the same time.
I strongly disagree. I fell in love with this actor before I realized he was gay. I watched Across to Singapore-- a silent movie. I figured it all out a little later but it didn't change a thing. Still love him today.
Are you gay? It doesnt matter if you know hes gay before or after. It matters to gay people that there was representation even then because up until not that long ago, they had to hide who they were. Its not about their sexuality. Its about their accomplishments despite it.
Not gay - and just pointing out most straight people who find a gay person impossible to resist will still be attracted to them. Funny thing is he is gay and dead… what are my chances with him? 😂 Don’t care. He’s still one of the most beautiful men I’ve ever seen.
Can someone help me out with why Stewart Copeland is an expert on this actor’s life and legacy?
He learned all about it from Queenlette Miss Pette Buttiget 💄
Novarro was far superior as Ben Hur compared to Charleton Heston.In fact, overall, with the exception of the great Stephen Boyd, the silent film was far more lively and entertaining and touching than the 1959 blockbuster. I am so sad that Novarro had such an unjust and cruel death. Nearly, 100 years after his masterpiece performance as Judah Ben Hur, I am a fan
Have to agree. Ben Hur 1925 is a far better film. I just bought it. I recommend for film enthusiasts to buy it. Great use of color and light in the Christ scenes.
Charlton Heston, archetype of the restricted homophobic...
@@brunopicaude3092 Actually, in my opinion, not a very good actor either.
@@brunopicaude3092 well I heard that this original movie it was Marcellus who is emotionally or sexually interested in Judah... Hollywood back then didn't seem to afraid to showing of gay characters or any expressions to indicate that.. they had their way of doing it in the silent era. But sadly the real gay characters like Navarro and ruto Valentino was gay too. Both played heterosexual sex symbols.These stars could not be open then, it's a sad dichotomy isn't it. This freedom that Hollywood expressed was before the anti gay among other things censorship of the 1930s or 40s. I think they were out there but they were more restricted in how they portrayed gay characters in movies all the way up to the 50s. Since the other writer here has the movie hope he picks up on the eye contact and his smile of delight when Marcellus looks at Judah. I remember that scene many years ago it was funny I got to say.. The clip of that eye to eye contact we just saw in this video shows Navarro looking very Stern as Marcella gazes upon Judah.. I wonder how the book proceed Marcellus and Judah Ben Her. Both as gay or one as gay or bisexual? I hope RUclips has this movie in stock somewhere here.And then the 1959 Blockbuster they certainly cut out any homophile attraction to each other. Charleston Heston a conservative look pretty much like a wolf flower very drab looking never really smiled only at the beginning of the movie. And then you see the handsome sexy looking young Stefan Boyd. Who is one of my homoerotic fantasies seeing him in his handsome looking Roman outfit. He was Dynamite to see especially in this vivid Technicolor they used. I was only 8 or 9 years old when the family came to see it when it came out.. watching it I realize this was a new secret thrill to see Stephan along with those other movies with Steve Reeves. my folks brought us to see.With that reddish alburn hair and his maroon colored leather outfit he looked very exciting to look at. Especially with his tense acting and his great smile man Stephen was a very handsome guy. He had everything going for him.too bad he had got mess it up in that Chariot race. What a great loss to a hunk
@@georgeplagianos6487 the book from Lewis Wallace does not mention any of that, just two friends from childhood!!!! Filthy minds of yours ans vidal gore queer
Actors back then are more dramatic because of being silent. Those were the best movies.
Novarro at 26 with his beautiful face has much more sex appeal than lanky craggy-faced Heston at 36, too old to be Ben-Hur anyway.
Stewart Copeland has written a score for Ben Hur? I haven't heard it. . But I love the Carl Davis score. . I saw Carl conduct the London Philharmonic at the London Palladium with a live screening of the film just after they'd found the bits & restored it (in the 1980s) - & that's the score that's on the DVD.
Outstanding Hollywood history male actor gay experience EVER. He did it for History ! Merci beaucoup from Paris France.
It's weird having Stewart Copeland weigh in as though a film history and/or gay history pandit on Navarro... Why? Have him weigh in on the music for the film! Of course your particular gaydar doesn't make you pick up that scene the way gay men see it!
Inane commentary.
Wow so interesting
I had to check him out. Some lady on "car 54 where are you" had a crush on him.
I remember that episode of Car 54. She was an old friend of Lucille Toody. Lucille set her up with Muldoon. Muldoon did actually like Bonnie but her obsession with Ramon Navarro caused her to dump Muldoon. It turned out she breaks up with her suitors the second they say or do something that remined her of the actor. That woman needs some serious therapy!
That's what brought me here, too.
Mr Copeland is way off here. 1920s lighting had to be very different from today's. Whether a 6-pack displays depends on how contours are lit. I see no 'pot-belly'. Also, mid-range rep/mid-weight exercises for hypertrophy do not necessarily build strength. Novarro's generation were superior in terms of vigour, and fertility, scientifically proven. Does Stewart REALLY believe there was 'no polished masculinity back then'? He needs to look at more Greek statues, rather than absurd Hollywood stereotypes. The score is good, as were Davis's and Axt's in their day, and Copeland clearly respects Wallace and Niblo, but perhaps the 'get everyone on the project to talk about every aspect, including what they don't know about, and then edit it' approach to promotional video isn't always the best. Plus, we didn't need another salacious reminder of Novarro's awful demise. Is that in a composer's brief?
Copeland is a nitwit.
He doesn't have a belly, guys blind.
He has a flat stomach, but not a six pack.
I disagree , They all looked great , Wallace Reid and the rest. This guy apparently hasn't seen the fitness book that Rudolph Valentino put out.
He was not murdered till the end of a looong life, for god's sake!
Does that make it OK
Ramón Novarro deserves better than Stewart Copeland's lame commentary.
Novarro was pretty much closeted. William Haines was not. Haines was the first Hollywood gay icon.
The studio knew of Roman's sexual appetite . As long as his movies made money , he was in. When they began losing money, that is when his contract was bought out. He had gained weight, looked older than his years compared to others. He didn't try to hide his affairs so much, as he didn't flaunt them. His film industry friends were aware surely. As Roman lived with his family most of his life, paying for his parents he only once (that I read about) brought someone into the home. He was devoted to the Catholic Church, and often did retreats. The more I learn about him, the more I became a fan last month. Quite talented. Spoke Spanish, English and French, painted, wrote scenarios, at least one play, played the piano and sang. He thought himself a great singer worthy of the Opera, but his friends said he sang Spanish ballads like no other.
Ramon Novarro the first Mexican 🇲🇽 to succeed in Hollywood
Before Ramon Novarro and William Hines the truly Gay Icon Hollywood was Rudolph Valentino
He has NO pot belly ......and a beautiful body..........!!!!!!!
iconic = vaguely familiar
His gaydar must be broken? ....yeah, THATS what it is, not the fact that he completely invalidated the opinions of actual gay people who may see something he doesn’t as an alleged straight man...
How'd his life work out?
Same way they all do.
It was a different time. Just, don't.
What about the man who judges Ramon, is him a beauty or he has a nice face at least ? 😅😅😅😅
Why do we still discuss who was/ is what. So not important. They give/gave us good entertainment. Most important fact , movies that are old almost 90 years give us , mean me, more joy, excitement than any modern ones.Also information how people lived, dress in those times.
We discuss who is/was gay because this was hidden and denied for decades. It is important for gay men and women to reclaim our past which has been buried for far too long.
And if Mr Novarro hadn't been gay would he even be remembered today ?
what a ridiculous assertion - he was the biggest star at MGM for several years earning more per film than anyone but Greta Garbo. He had a huge success in both silent films and a successful transition to "talkies" p.s. most people had no idea he was gay until after he was dead - his murderers were convicted, but set free because being gay, until very recently, was a bigger offense in the United States than murder. If he hadn't been gay, he would be remembered with the other greats of his era for his films, because he was gay and it came out as part of his murder story, his fame was suppressed by puritanical, homophobic Hollywood and American culture - and you suggest that he wouldn't be remembered but for the fact that is was gay?!? laughable perversion of the truth
More than u. Ben Hur was the Gone With the Wind of the silent era & will always be remembered.
William Haines beats Ramon in every category.
I disagree. Ramon was a better actor. William was ok as a comedian but too effeminate.
Not true , Billy Haines was .
I first heard of him from an episode of Car 54 Where Are You. It was where an old friend of Lucille's was so obsessed with Ramon Navarro that she would dump any suitor that said or did anything that reminded her of the actor. That woman needs some serious therapy!
Not a gay icon if its in house - if only Hollywood knew. People didnt even know Liberace was gay or Rock Hudson outside of Hollywood till before they died, and to the few not the many. Two different worlds.
Times and bodies do change. I doubt "real"BH was a buff Jewish man.
I thought he was absolutely beautiful. I thought him and Rudolph Valentino both . The men on screen don’t do it for me today . Give me Johnny Depp when he was younger or French Alian Delon . I don’t care for the big buff guys that women swoon over today . Nope .
It really goes on my nerves all this talk about Ramon sexuality. He was a great actor. His life ended tradigly. I do not care about his personal life. People its 21st century!
You can’t compare the bodies of yester year to today’s. They didn’t have the nutrition we have today, there are more gyms, more enhancers etc. I am sure all these differences are the reason for the body types
Is this man ok? He went on a bizarre rant about how he basically thinks it’s ridiculous that people found this actor attractive based on today’s standards of beauty lol how does that work into the conversation at all? He practically went into seizure mode over it. “ by today’s standards he wouldn’t be considered blah blah blah!!!” ......the mans dead, I highly doubt he cares that he doesn’t fit your fantasies of what a man should look like. People’s natural taste hasn’t changed, they were just presented different options, which the media choosing for them what’s acceptable and what isn’t. Which is why everyone Obsesses over Ryan Reynolds, but they marry Kevin James and Seth Rogen. It’s all in their heads.
Fat Dom Gamiello, whatever happened there
Pot-bellied, no muscle... God how easy men had it back then
I w2ish I had Ramon's "pot-belly," instead of the one I have, lol
I dunno about anyone else, but to me, old time actors with this body type are much more attractive than today's male celebrities who are super buff and with six packs.
He's not a gay martyr, he's a gay icon. His tragic death simply outed him to cement his gay icon status. And who made Copeland the go-to guy on men's bodies? Granted, he's given the subject a great deal of thought, apparently studying naked men of the last 100 years. At one point he's actually writhing around in his chair while talking scantily clad dudes. Whatever floats your boat.
Shouldn't they have titled the film "Ben-Gay"?
The Artful Dodger So wrong, but so funny... 🙂
Gaydar my ass.
Stewart Copeland is....American??? I thought the whole band was British!
you thought wrong
The Police were basically Stewart's project. He discovered Sting