Other Videos in the Horus Heresy 2.0 Tactical series. Ashen Circle Word Bearers: ruclips.net/video/UllhACKsjKg/видео.html , Red Butcher World Eaters ruclips.net/video/ZKWPBgqnG3U/видео.html
Thanks so much MR Kieras. Let me know any suggestions you have for content or units you want me to cover. I'll be doing a fair bit more on the night lords as well obviously hahaha
Not sure I agree about the usefulness of the Contekar, especially when compared to Night Raptors. It's a valid comparison to make since both units share a bunch of similar qualities, like Deep Strike, Bulky (2), Fear and WS5. In theory, Contekar are a bit more tanky with 2+ armour and a 5+ invulnerable save, but in reality I think Night Raptors can often be more survivable despite this. This is because, if used correctly (i.e. you charge them in), they will not need to roll any saves in melee at all; everything they touch will likely be dead at Initiative step 5 thanks to Sudden Strike (1) and and a ridiculous amount of attacks from having paired weapons and built in Boody Murder. Contekar, in comparison, will have to weather a lot more attacks back since they don't get to strike before anyone else and they can never get as many attacks as the Raptors, which means they will also get fewer Breaching results from those chain weapons on average. Alright, but what about in the following turn, when the enemy wants to retaliate and shoot your combat unit down? So first of all, the Night Raptor Huntmaster (sergeant) *can indeed* take artificer armour, not sure why you thought they couldn't, so he'll be able to tank small arms fire just as well as any of the Contekar. Admittedly, having a 2+ save on EVERY member of the squad and not having to risk your sergeant is better, so that's a point to the Contekar. Against bigger guns, though, as long as you make sure you've consolidated into some cover with the Raptors, they will be just as good IF NOT BETTER at tanking shots then the Contekar, since the worst cover save they will get in that situation is a 5+, thanks to Skirmish, which is on par with the invulnerable save of the Contekar. If you get behind some ruins though, they will get a 4+, which means they will save 50% of the wounds from something like a lascannon squad, while Contekar will only ever save 33%. It's cool to hear that you've had success with your Contekar though. I still like the unit and have had them perform well for me in a few games as well, but if it comes down to a choice between them and Night Raptors (for purely competitive reasons) I'd go with Night Raptors every time!
Man I love the look of Night Lords. I don’t think I’d have the patience to paint an army though. Great Vid, Stevanius. Informed viewpoint and insight as always.
Thanks mate. They are a very interesting army and fun to play. But yeah painting the lightning takes time and is annoying. That's why I did mine metalic so I didn't have to paint highlights as much etc. Takes way too long.
Loved the video. I think the points you made are valid. Are contekar busted, nope. Are they viable, absolutely. You gave great supporting arguments as to their use, and their weaknesses. A good point to note, some people suck at certain playstyles. They may love NL but can’t figure out how to get a Raptor squad to be successful. The contekar are a more forgiving unit, due to inbuilt durability.
Hi jacobb. That's exaclty right imo and not all Terminators can have a 3++. Doesn't mean they suck. They are good units if used correctly. I have taken on iron hands with them and came out on top. Also gal vorbak with Argal Tal attached and they help them off for 3 turns. It's exaclty as you say. You just need to play them as they were designed
The Contekar are bad because they don't fill any niche that isn't done better by another unit. They are far more durable than the Night Raptors but the Raptors will massively outperform them in melee because they just throw out far more attacks and are much more mobile. The Raptors themselves are overpriced but they'll have an easier time making that cost back than the Contekar. The big problem with them is that your only AP2 weapon is on the dissident. WS5 is nice but a squad of generic terminators with power fists will nearly always beat the Contekar, nevermind a squad of WS5 unique termies with fists/hammers. They aren't great at shooting either. The cavitor is a cool weapon but with only 10"" range and BS4 they just aren't built for it. What the Night Lords *really* need is a way of dealing with massed 2+ saves and the Contekar just can't. If they all could take the escaton claw or just regular powerfists they would be much better. But as of right now I just leave them at home most of the time because they can't do anything besides mulch 3+ saves, something pretty much everything can do. Edit 1: 37:00 since you bring up the comparison yourself, yes the Raptors are more fragile, but they are also far more flexible as they have so many attacks that you can buy a few of them power axes for some added AP2 capability without losing any effectiveness at blending 3+ saves at initiative. Putting meltas on them is pointless. You mentioned it earlier but Contekar don't have Bloody Murder unless Curze is around to give it to them through his warlord trait, and since the Raptors have two close combat weapons, just five will put out 21 attacks on the charge at initiative 5, while five Contekar will only put out 11 at initiative 4 and that's not counting any possible bonuses the Raptors can get from bloody murder or hammer of wrath. Edit 2: I just finished sitting through your entire 40 minute video and not once did you bring up the *actual* problem people have with the Contekar and that's that they don't have any access to AP2 weapons outside of the sergeant, meaning they will always lose on average to a generic WS4 terminator squad with fists/hammers. TLDR: People slam the Contekar because there is nothing that they do that some other unit doesn't do better, often at cheaper cost. They do have cool models though.
Hi man of the West. Thanks for the excellent arguments. You have some fantastic points. I believe the Niche they are filling is. Alpha preferred enemy on deep strike with more durability. As I stated. I disagree they are bad. Your points are extremely valid though. If night raptors could inherite PE from Sevatar. I would agree they didnt have their own niche. This is just my personal view though. Thanks heaps for the detailed feedback though. Also taking the time to post your points here for other to reference. Very valuable to the community thank you.
@@CommandCentreWargaming Hey. Sorry if my comment came off as condescending or anything as that was not my intent. Personally, I believe there are many problems with the Night Lords units and rules that aren't limited just to the Contekar. What should have been done with them was something similar to way the Death Guard have the Grave Wardens for ranged terminators and the Death Shroud for close combat. Same with the Iron Warriors' Siege Tyrants and Dominators. The Atramentar should have been the close combat terminators with WS5 and all the AP2 melee options and the Contekar should have been the ranged support terminators. Instead the Contekar got hamstrung with only 10"" range. So we got stuck with the Contekar who are only good at blending AP3 targets in melee range and the Atramentar who aren't good for anything at all.
@@manofthewest5395 Not at all. One actually would need to have some authoritative standing over someone to be contrecending So I'm not sure what lead you to believe I would have thought that. I even thanked you for your view point and your comments. Your argument for the unit being "bad" is based on "poor" rules writing. In addition to "they not filling a niche". Your free to your view. I disagree and as stated prior and in the video. They have a niche. In regards to your other point. Poor rules writing in my view doesn't automatically make a unit bad. I AGREE WITH YOU AS WELL BTW. On this. The night lords rules are poorly written. The biggest exmaple is bikes not having bulky. Like WTF. But. One can have 2 units in an army both with poorly written rules but they booth perform well etc. A Units rules can be written poorly and in fact be too strong. Thus making them good.
Contekar are bad, but they aren't as bad as the Atramentar which are the worst legion specific terminators in the game and a total failure of rules-writing.
Yes I agree on this. Atramentar are not great. That weapon skill 4 seals their fate. They do get that extra attack on top if they are joining an engaged unit but still. It's not enough.
Other Videos in the Horus Heresy 2.0 Tactical series. Ashen Circle Word Bearers: ruclips.net/video/UllhACKsjKg/видео.html , Red Butcher World Eaters ruclips.net/video/ZKWPBgqnG3U/видео.html
Liked and subscribed. Clear and Direct.Good sound and speaking manner.Great subject ofcourse,Konrad approves.
Thanks so much MR Kieras. Let me know any suggestions you have for content or units you want me to cover. I'll be doing a fair bit more on the night lords as well obviously hahaha
Not sure I agree about the usefulness of the Contekar, especially when compared to Night Raptors. It's a valid comparison to make since both units share a bunch of similar qualities, like Deep Strike, Bulky (2), Fear and WS5.
In theory, Contekar are a bit more tanky with 2+ armour and a 5+ invulnerable save, but in reality I think Night Raptors can often be more survivable despite this. This is because, if used correctly (i.e. you charge them in), they will not need to roll any saves in melee at all; everything they touch will likely be dead at Initiative step 5 thanks to Sudden Strike (1) and and a ridiculous amount of attacks from having paired weapons and built in Boody Murder. Contekar, in comparison, will have to weather a lot more attacks back since they don't get to strike before anyone else and they can never get as many attacks as the Raptors, which means they will also get fewer Breaching results from those chain weapons on average.
Alright, but what about in the following turn, when the enemy wants to retaliate and shoot your combat unit down? So first of all, the Night Raptor Huntmaster (sergeant) *can indeed* take artificer armour, not sure why you thought they couldn't, so he'll be able to tank small arms fire just as well as any of the Contekar. Admittedly, having a 2+ save on EVERY member of the squad and not having to risk your sergeant is better, so that's a point to the Contekar. Against bigger guns, though, as long as you make sure you've consolidated into some cover with the Raptors, they will be just as good IF NOT BETTER at tanking shots then the Contekar, since the worst cover save they will get in that situation is a 5+, thanks to Skirmish, which is on par with the invulnerable save of the Contekar. If you get behind some ruins though, they will get a 4+, which means they will save 50% of the wounds from something like a lascannon squad, while Contekar will only ever save 33%.
It's cool to hear that you've had success with your Contekar though. I still like the unit and have had them perform well for me in a few games as well, but if it comes down to a choice between them and Night Raptors (for purely competitive reasons) I'd go with Night Raptors every time!
Yeah fair call and a common view point on them. Thanks for your input.
Man I love the look of Night Lords. I don’t think I’d have the patience to paint an army though. Great Vid, Stevanius. Informed viewpoint and insight as always.
Thanks mate. They are a very interesting army and fun to play. But yeah painting the lightning takes time and is annoying. That's why I did mine metalic so I didn't have to paint highlights as much etc. Takes way too long.
@@CommandCentreWargaming you’re an ideas man
dope
Thanks man
Loved the video. I think the points you made are valid. Are contekar busted, nope. Are they viable, absolutely. You gave great supporting arguments as to their use, and their weaknesses. A good point to note, some people suck at certain playstyles. They may love NL but can’t figure out how to get a Raptor squad to be successful. The contekar are a more forgiving unit, due to inbuilt durability.
Hi jacobb. That's exaclty right imo and not all Terminators can have a 3++. Doesn't mean they suck. They are good units if used correctly. I have taken on iron hands with them and came out on top. Also gal vorbak with Argal Tal attached and they help them off for 3 turns. It's exaclty as you say. You just need to play them as they were designed
Cool
Very cool
@@CommandCentreWargaming ruclips.net/video/3SlqyGVj6P0/видео.html
Hey there, I can you review Gal Vorbak and/or Ashen Circle?
Sure thing. Ashen Circle are a very interesting one. We will do both but I think Ashen first. Gal Vorbak are generally well received.
What is the worst non legend special unit and why are they lernaeans?
Thanks. I'll do a video on lernaeans. Ok so ATM. I'm thinking red butches are pretty crap. But I'm open to suggestions
I think you mispelled Atramentar.
The Contekar are bad because they don't fill any niche that isn't done better by another unit. They are far more durable than the Night Raptors but the Raptors will massively outperform them in melee because they just throw out far more attacks and are much more mobile. The Raptors themselves are overpriced but they'll have an easier time making that cost back than the Contekar. The big problem with them is that your only AP2 weapon is on the dissident. WS5 is nice but a squad of generic terminators with power fists will nearly always beat the Contekar, nevermind a squad of WS5 unique termies with fists/hammers. They aren't great at shooting either. The cavitor is a cool weapon but with only 10"" range and BS4 they just aren't built for it.
What the Night Lords *really* need is a way of dealing with massed 2+ saves and the Contekar just can't. If they all could take the escaton claw or just regular powerfists they would be much better. But as of right now I just leave them at home most of the time because they can't do anything besides mulch 3+ saves, something pretty much everything can do.
Edit 1: 37:00 since you bring up the comparison yourself, yes the Raptors are more fragile, but they are also far more flexible as they have so many attacks that you can buy a few of them power axes for some added AP2 capability without losing any effectiveness at blending 3+ saves at initiative. Putting meltas on them is pointless. You mentioned it earlier but Contekar don't have Bloody Murder unless Curze is around to give it to them through his warlord trait, and since the Raptors have two close combat weapons, just five will put out 21 attacks on the charge at initiative 5, while five Contekar will only put out 11 at initiative 4 and that's not counting any possible bonuses the Raptors can get from bloody murder or hammer of wrath.
Edit 2: I just finished sitting through your entire 40 minute video and not once did you bring up the *actual* problem people have with the Contekar and that's that they don't have any access to AP2 weapons outside of the sergeant, meaning they will always lose on average to a generic WS4 terminator squad with fists/hammers.
TLDR: People slam the Contekar because there is nothing that they do that some other unit doesn't do better, often at cheaper cost.
They do have cool models though.
Hi man of the West. Thanks for the excellent arguments. You have some fantastic points. I believe the Niche they are filling is. Alpha preferred enemy on deep strike with more durability. As I stated. I disagree they are bad. Your points are extremely valid though. If night raptors could inherite PE from Sevatar. I would agree they didnt have their own niche. This is just my personal view though. Thanks heaps for the detailed feedback though. Also taking the time to post your points here for other to reference. Very valuable to the community thank you.
@@CommandCentreWargaming Hey. Sorry if my comment came off as condescending or anything as that was not my intent.
Personally, I believe there are many problems with the Night Lords units and rules that aren't limited just to the Contekar.
What should have been done with them was something similar to way the Death Guard have the Grave Wardens for ranged terminators and the Death Shroud for close combat. Same with the Iron Warriors' Siege Tyrants and Dominators. The Atramentar should have been the close combat terminators with WS5 and all the AP2 melee options and the Contekar should have been the ranged support terminators.
Instead the Contekar got hamstrung with only 10"" range. So we got stuck with the Contekar who are only good at blending AP3 targets in melee range and the Atramentar who aren't good for anything at all.
@@manofthewest5395 Not at all. One actually would need to have some authoritative standing over someone to be contrecending So I'm not sure what lead you to believe I would have thought that. I even thanked you for your view point and your comments. Your argument for the unit being "bad" is based on "poor" rules writing. In addition to "they not filling a niche". Your free to your view. I disagree and as stated prior and in the video. They have a niche. In regards to your other point. Poor rules writing in my view doesn't automatically make a unit bad. I AGREE WITH YOU AS WELL BTW. On this. The night lords rules are poorly written. The biggest exmaple is bikes not having bulky. Like WTF. But. One can have 2 units in an army both with poorly written rules but they booth perform well etc. A Units rules can be written poorly and in fact be too strong. Thus making them good.
This video is funny. “Contekar are ok when you spend 700 points to support them.”
I wanna see Death Guard content. Loyalist and traitor.
noted, in the que mate.
The flesh aprons kill them for me
Bahahaha Adonis. Same. Why I try to paint mine black or read clothes to hide them. I'm not big on the flesh aprons either.
Contekar are bad, but they aren't as bad as the Atramentar which are the worst legion specific terminators in the game and a total failure of rules-writing.
Yes I agree on this. Atramentar are not great. That weapon skill 4 seals their fate. They do get that extra attack on top if they are joining an engaged unit but still. It's not enough.