4 scoring units at 3k points feels right. Game theory and list building will only get you so far for countering threats, but sometimes a specific list will take your lunch money, so you have to be prepared to win on objectives.
In practice, stacking all of your AT weapons into one or two units is both overkill and a tempting target to focus down. For better results, you generally want to be extending your AT capabilities across at least 5 units (including your dedicated AT), even if that's just from a token pintle-mount, meltabomb, or chainfist. If one or two of them can also double up as AA for that one-off chance your opponent brings aircraft, so much the better. This is honestly why I'd recommend missile launchers over lascannons on HSS - Lascannons can't Skyfire without Helical Targeting Arrays or being mounted on aircraft. For my own Salamanders, I'm already getting the equivalent of 16-17 lascannons elsewhere in a mechanized list (two land raiders, a predator annihilator, and a mortis box dread) where the ability to move and shoot at full ballistic skill more than makes up for the vehicle component not being able to fire reaction shots with them. That's also before bringing up the 4 rhinos with pintle-mounted multi-meltas, or the rapier battery of three quad mortars with shatter shells.
Good one guys. I think you’re right that bringing a TAC is the most fun for both parts, and a good starting point for painting up your first army. From there you can start skewing the list a bit, and see how opponents tackle it. I mean, we also really want to see someone bringing 100 Despoilers or 12 Predators for the heck of it 😊
Dark Angels are even better at this since we have access to “plasma repeaters.” They are only 12” but they get Assault 3, Gets Hot, Twin-Linked, Breaching (4+). These things melt anything they get in range of. They are only Str.6 but even when wounding dreads on a 5+ you will get lots of wounds on it.
Thanks for your advices. As a new player who wants to build a loyalist Word Bearer army, knowing how to use the basics units will be essential. Especially in this case when I can only rely on a few warlord traits and one special elite unit.
The non-terminator Command Squad is fire, they cost as much as veterans, but have artificer armor and chainswords for free. Against dreadnaughts I think you need to have either your own dreadnaughts or lots of grav weapons, I usually have a dreadnaught with fist and plasma and it will SMOKE any lascannon HSS trying to shoot it (they also can't statistically kill a contemptor with one volley) because return fire BS5 large blast with nuncio vox never misses and evaporates half the models it hits, even if HSS will be in a anti-template formation it's a win for me as it makes it harder for HSS to draw line of sight with all models in a unit and get cover.
@@crimsonknight7011 rending on 4+ using overlapping flamer templates- I wiped out a terminator squad with over 20 hits then in the next turn a contemptor with a few lucky 4+ rolls. My opponent was dumbstruck
I’ve only played two games so far and didnt do well with them. I have a 10 man squad and I think thats too many because they couldn’t fire since they were touching each other with flamer. Gunna try a 5 man unit. Sadly got crushed because I forgot a lot of abilities like stubborn and sunder on my lascannons. Do you have any tips?
So I like to take 5 man Recon squads with Snipers and shoot them at the Las Cannons. They normally have to return fire or they might be pinned. After they return fire or are pinned I shoot them with my 10 man Las cannon squad or whatever I have that can wipe them out or damage them enough they are not such a threat. (Jason)
I'm really amused how one of them is advocating using "only two contemptors, maybe with leviathan" on 2000p list, like, it's a good tactics. Truth is, if you take fury of the ancients and setup dred-only army you will definetely win, but your opponent won't play with you ever again. Same goes with four dreds on regular RoW in 2000p game.
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What’s your top tip for all comers lists?
4 scoring units at 3k points feels right. Game theory and list building will only get you so far for countering threats, but sometimes a specific list will take your lunch money, so you have to be prepared to win on objectives.
In practice, stacking all of your AT weapons into one or two units is both overkill and a tempting target to focus down. For better results, you generally want to be extending your AT capabilities across at least 5 units (including your dedicated AT), even if that's just from a token pintle-mount, meltabomb, or chainfist. If one or two of them can also double up as AA for that one-off chance your opponent brings aircraft, so much the better.
This is honestly why I'd recommend missile launchers over lascannons on HSS - Lascannons can't Skyfire without Helical Targeting Arrays or being mounted on aircraft. For my own Salamanders, I'm already getting the equivalent of 16-17 lascannons elsewhere in a mechanized list (two land raiders, a predator annihilator, and a mortis box dread) where the ability to move and shoot at full ballistic skill more than makes up for the vehicle component not being able to fire reaction shots with them. That's also before bringing up the 4 rhinos with pintle-mounted multi-meltas, or the rapier battery of three quad mortars with shatter shells.
Watch out for militia allies. Infantry or russ spam can be a good meat shield for your legion guns
I've found that 2 sicaran punishers with a heavy bolter and volkite side sponsons catches alot of people by surprise with its reaction fire
Especially cheeky with EC! Keen to try it
That’s some next level transitions there! Blowing up the Xiphon 😂
😂
Good one guys.
I think you’re right that bringing a TAC is the most fun for both parts, and a good starting point for painting up your first army.
From there you can start skewing the list a bit, and see how opponents tackle it.
I mean, we also really want to see someone bringing 100 Despoilers or 12 Predators for the heck of it 😊
Thanks Kasper!
Another great show…..can’t wait for anther one!
Thanks guys!
Love the editing guys!!! It's damn near perfect!! Super simple and clear!!
super kind thank you!
Im so glad I found this podcast. So helpful and a great listen to.
Awesome to have you !
Plasma support squad. Eats dreads(4+ Breach/wound). Eats terminators. Expensive, yes, but will kill.
I have to try this!
Dark Angels are even better at this since we have access to “plasma repeaters.” They are only 12” but they get Assault 3, Gets Hot, Twin-Linked, Breaching (4+).
These things melt anything they get in range of. They are only Str.6 but even when wounding dreads on a 5+ you will get lots of wounds on it.
Thanks for your advices. As a new player who wants to build a loyalist Word Bearer army, knowing how to use the basics units will be essential. Especially in this case when I can only rely on a few warlord traits and one special elite unit.
Nice illustrations!
The non-terminator Command Squad is fire, they cost as much as veterans, but have artificer armor and chainswords for free. Against dreadnaughts I think you need to have either your own dreadnaughts or lots of grav weapons, I usually have a dreadnaught with fist and plasma and it will SMOKE any lascannon HSS trying to shoot it (they also can't statistically kill a contemptor with one volley) because return fire BS5 large blast with nuncio vox never misses and evaporates half the models it hits, even if HSS will be in a anti-template formation it's a win for me as it makes it harder for HSS to draw line of sight with all models in a unit and get cover.
What's hss??
@@MrCitizen0heavy support squad
Thanks guys! I've been watching too many min/max videos on how to build RoW lists. I just wanna play with tactical marines, good strats!
5 man dreadwing plasma burner bad boiiiis vs a contemptor works pretty good
What makes them good against dreadnaughts?
@@crimsonknight7011 rending on 4+ using overlapping flamer templates- I wiped out a terminator squad with over 20 hits then in the next turn a contemptor with a few lucky 4+ rolls. My opponent was dumbstruck
I’ve only played two games so far and didnt do well with them. I have a 10 man squad and I think thats too many because they couldn’t fire since they were touching each other with flamer. Gunna try a 5 man unit. Sadly got crushed because I forgot a lot of abilities like stubborn and sunder on my lascannons.
Do you have any tips?
As Solar Aux or Militia, replace Las HSS with Leman Russ Vanquishers. They'll tear up most everything.
Melta bombs not work like grenades where you go at I1 but auto hit?
You don't auto hit with melta bombs you have to roll to hit
Did I miss it or was there no talk of recon marines? A 5-man nemesis dick-kicker squad seem a shoe-in for an all-comers list.
You’re right, we wanted to focus on the non support squad options when briefly discussing troops :)
How does one counter ten man lascannon squads?
So I like to take 5 man Recon squads with Snipers and shoot them at the Las Cannons. They normally have to return fire or they might be pinned. After they return fire or are pinned I shoot them with my 10 man Las cannon squad or whatever I have that can wipe them out or damage them enough they are not such a threat. (Jason)
Scorpion tanks hard counter them. They can't return fire and the tank can't be shot.
I run Suzerians (w/3-4TH) with in place of a command squad with my Ultras every game (Line)
I'm really amused how one of them is advocating using "only two contemptors, maybe with leviathan" on 2000p list, like, it's a good tactics. Truth is, if you take fury of the ancients and setup dred-only army you will definetely win, but your opponent won't play with you ever again. Same goes with four dreds on regular RoW in 2000p game.
Give them combat shields and they get a 6++, not great but for 2 points ey~
TOP Tip play broke Dark angels that do everything better than any other legion!
Well i only play a full dreadnought army for passed 2 years :/