I think a really good way of looking at low-poly in general is like the 3D equivalent to pixel art, and once you start thinking about it in that way, the workflow starts to make a lot of sense
Agreed. It's a style of its own and great for indies in 3D. If you go for photorealism, it raises the expectations of the overall game and its a ton more work.
I was actually expecting the talk to be more about the tools involved and how an artist goes about creating low-polygon models. And while that would have been interesting too, what it ended up being was way more insightful and probably more useful in the end. I'm a developer and definitely not an artist myself, but I would take a stylistically rendered game over an ultrarealistic one in most cases. We're at the point where, really, the realism part is kind of solved. We can do rendering in such a way that it is literally physically accurate, down to the point that it can be used to predict the outcome of scientific experiments in the real world (physically based rendering). Now we're just waiting for hardware to catch up enough that we can do realtime photon mapping. But if you want your game to look like a painting, or a dream, or cartoon, etc... you've got to get creative.
I LOVED this talk. Just tech. Just information. Relating ideas to numbers and efficiency. I learned A TON from using WoW Model Viewer and looking at WoW's models. They are the kings of efficiency and they made incredibly attractive assets for the game.
Yeah, I think it is great that there is a talk where someone doesn´t just tell a story but also backs it up with something you can learn from and actual tips. Most of the time you watch these things and actually did not learn anything at the end. This was a perfect talk. Also super interesting what you said about the wow models I always thought they looked great, I am going to look more into it now.
Wow models are interesting but I think it's important to realize what he's talking about is stylistically different than wow ... low poly style versus high fidelity low poly downsampling
i disagree. i use several trial runs of decimate, i keep the best parts of the decimated models, stich em up like frankenstein, mirror left to right if the model is done that way, fix any details i need to have good animation. this gives me the best of all scenarios. it's like i'm really doing photo manipulation by layers
There are some higher quality polygon reducers out there, but they tend to be kept in-house (CryTek) or live mostly in research papers. For instance there is the "Instant Meshes" siggraph paper which re-constructs meshes from a position field, and only requires manual input if you care about the edge flow.
I think both decimate and downscale can work, but the best artists always go a bit beyond that. Slapping any sort of filter on something won't save your lack of vision and taste
@@logandunlap9156 I think they work perfectly fine, just for their intended purpose, not as a means for a lazy artist to immediately alter a high fidelity piece into a lower fidelity one for literally any purpose. Decimate is great when it comes to creating the base shape of collision meshes for static objects, and downscale is a joy for quickly turning a big picture into a small icon for placeholder purposes, or for things that just really don't need to be all that readable anyway. The main issue is not with the tools, it's that people desire to have things happen for them without them doing any real work. So they use these tools hoping they will perform miracles, which makes other people hate the tools. When really, people should hate the lazy artists who decided a single button was going to solve all their problems and make them money.
I'm a low poly enthusiast, with a special preference for the _very_ blocky look from the PSX and N64 era. A lot of people think that stuff looks dated and "muddy" these days, and I don't blame them, but I think they have a certain elegance to them. I've made a few models myself, and I want to make more, but I don't have any sort of professional experience. This video was fantastic, I feel like I've already picked up on a lot that I hadn't even considered before. Thank you so much!
I know that feel; the majority (probably all) of my group of friends just don't get why I'd rather have a LAN party on Unreal2004 or Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II rather than CS:GO or Rainbow Siege; or Battle for Middle Earth 2 as opposed to their hyper-shiny Starcraft knockoff with nukes, lmao
This is exactly what I was looking for. I keep seeing tutorials saying "just throw a decimate modifier on your model" and I was genuinely looking for insight on designing and rigging low poly, and also PEERING into the minds of PS1 modelers/ WHY they had to model that way. INSANE that I've never heard of Ethan. This is amazing!!!!!!
This was a really good presentation - but we don't really need to see the presenter full screen so often. I've noticed this in a few of the 2017 presentations. For 2018 please show the slides more often! I think the format with the presenter on the side (with a STATIONARY camera) and the slides taking the majority of the screen works much better.
This was a great talk, very well organized, nice set of visual ideas. I really wanted to hear the answer to the last question, though! If you see this Ethan and have the time, what is your take on applying advanced rendering techniques to low-poly art?
Wm Reeves hey, glad you liked it! In short I think it all comes down to execution; I've actually been experimenting with combining low poly with more advanced rendering and it's a fun clash. if you're curious feel free to peep my insta @kiddradd or hmu on twitter ^-^)b
i see no problem with using advanced rendering on low poly art. You can give your low poly scenes a feeling of being crafted from paper (like origami).
He only got 2 mins for questions but did 4 mins LOL If he answered that question he would probably be at 6mins extra so they cut him off hahaha great talk though
one of the questions was about variation in low polly; depending on what you are making you can get some good results by applying noise it the locations of the vertices
I think a great example of a low poly model is crash bandicoot on the ps1, the model in my opinion looks better then the concept art and animates really nicely, including all those death animations and the spin witch is a modelled blur, really awesome.
Goddamn, I got to watch 2 insanely awesome GDC talks back to back - one from last year by Mike Ferrari and now this one. I sincerely hope Ethan creates the next big thing in gaming and reaps all the benefits since he deserves it.
Definitely an interesting talk for developers trying to do simple visuals by themselves, but really really basic for actual 3D artists. I wish there was more in-depth talks about 3D art on GDC.
Working smart is the way to go. Great talk. : ) I appreciate this talk in spreading awareness that there are other methods than high-poly. Low poly offers a ton of benefits for performance, style and rapid development to benefit from.
I've recently been messing around in Blender and trying to teach myself how to sculpt/model stuff while watching/listening to youtube. I was messing around with high poly models to then decimate them trying to make them into low-poly and absolutely struggling. I started to realize that I should limit how subdivided/high-poly I made them. Now I'm finally wrapping my head around how to properly add/connect my own points to create my own rough shapes which I can then subdivide to increase their detail and smooth. Models are looking much better and more simple. This talk helped clarify how to approach this. Blender 2.80 is so much better and user friendly than prior versions 💪
The interesting part is that there are methods to essentially make low poly meshes with pixelart. And not only that there is the possibility of using more pixelart like textures for low poly art. Megaman legends comes to mind for pixelart textures and low poly modeling.
A lot of the design philosophy for both come from traditional art minimalism. Highest amount of information conveyed using the fewest possible details. These sort of ideas in art are far from new. They actually predate computers.
When he showed the example with the hands, my mind immediately went to the PSP Grand Theft Auto games. The hands in those games are actually made of only three shapes: the thumb, the palm and all the fingers merged into one block. The way Rockstar devs conveyed each individual finger was through textures and lighting, not with additional polygons. If you're curious, search in RUclips "Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories - ALL CUTSCENES" and look at the characters' hands. Really fascinating stuff, at least for me.
Love low poly. Nostalgic, easy on the eyes (if done right - as with all things) and easy on the rig. Looks good and plays well. Can't say the same for most modern games.
Now this talk is very impressive. I was going in looking for recommended tools for this type of art style but ended up getting way more useful information and concepts from this creator!
I only use decimate when i'm lazy and it's for LOD levels of simple static object edit: damn, i really wanted to hear the answer to the last question. i think normal maps for example can help add minor detail like scratches or etching, but it need to be made for low poly, you can't just slap on some photorealistic pbr on a low poly mesh and expect it to look good.
3d Modelers shouldn't even know what a 16 sided polygon is. Ngons (any face with 5 or more sides/edges) are frowned upon. Even triangles can cause issues. People need to stick with quads.
Quads are friendlier for almost everything on the production side (ease of modeling, subdivision, deformation, texturing), but IMHO triangles are an important part of the "low poly aesthetic" for static assets. They're also around 20-30% less geometry for similar visual complexity, although that's likely not the bottleneck these days even on burner phones.
Just want to say wow. That was a super logical breakdown of considerations. Formulating each idea as an axis of tradeoffs and benefits. Each axis pivoting around a formal art theory concept. Bringing art theory to low poly. I hope your formulations go viral, enabling time constrained indevs to really infuse their assets with feeling. GG.
high poly to lowpoly is a good way to go, and u can extract the normal map from the highpoly and apply it to the low poly and make it look high poly with performance gain from going low poly, that u get the good of both world without really compromising so much.
11:40 it is SO annoying the camera people keep changing the shot JUST to be changing it, often showing the guy instead of the VISUAL AIDE he's trying to show us. for a brief moment there's a side by side shot of him AND the screen. why wouldn't you just use this shot for the whole video? smh. the actual content is fantastic.
His points are also great for beginners imo since it teaches great principles and work flows. I'm a programmer and I feel like I should start here. Cant wait to try them out
Many people think low-poly = lack of skill I personally think it's all about time... many people who work in indie dev have skills to produce AAA quality but they don't have time to do everything.
Omg I never thought of flipping the normals on class.. was always thinking transparency. That's a great trick, how do you pull off the fluids inside though? Really would like to know how to make good looking potions lol
i really would love to know how to bake textures for low quantity like 2-3 only... anyhelp on it (blender if possible) ?? I loved this panel,my goal is make something like ''tunic'' game, one of my big inspirations
I think low poly is the future. Think about it if people are willing to buy books, there's a market for lower fidelity games that are interesting. AI can also improve low poly to appear higher fidelity as well.
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & Fuerza Regida) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjv8TQ0gBkg/mqdefault.jpg)
I think a really good way of looking at low-poly in general is like the 3D equivalent to pixel art, and once you start thinking about it in that way, the workflow starts to make a lot of sense
Agreed. It's a style of its own and great for indies in 3D. If you go for photorealism, it raises the expectations of the overall game and its a ton more work.
this instantly clicked for me when I read it. great point.
the grid in blender is how I keep all textures consistent and straight with the model
Impressive how he keeps his cool with that annoying pop-up at the beginning. Great presenter!
Selestrielle that was sooo annoying lol, ty ^-^
Im sorry for him. Pop-Ups just wait for bad times. I remember the old times where they tabed u always out of game windows :D
I was actually expecting the talk to be more about the tools involved and how an artist goes about creating low-polygon models. And while that would have been interesting too, what it ended up being was way more insightful and probably more useful in the end. I'm a developer and definitely not an artist myself, but I would take a stylistically rendered game over an ultrarealistic one in most cases. We're at the point where, really, the realism part is kind of solved. We can do rendering in such a way that it is literally physically accurate, down to the point that it can be used to predict the outcome of scientific experiments in the real world (physically based rendering). Now we're just waiting for hardware to catch up enough that we can do realtime photon mapping. But if you want your game to look like a painting, or a dream, or cartoon, etc... you've got to get creative.
I LOVED this talk. Just tech. Just information. Relating ideas to numbers and efficiency.
I learned A TON from using WoW Model Viewer and looking at WoW's models. They are the kings of efficiency and they made incredibly attractive assets for the game.
Yeah, I think it is great that there is a talk where someone doesn´t just tell a story but also backs it up with something you can learn from and actual tips. Most of the time you watch these things and actually did not learn anything at the end. This was a perfect talk.
Also super interesting what you said about the wow models I always thought they looked great, I am going to look more into it now.
Wow models are interesting but I think it's important to realize what he's talking about is stylistically different than wow ... low poly style versus high fidelity low poly downsampling
Decimate is the equivalent of just downscaling an image to make it appear as a pixelart piece
i disagree. i use several trial runs of decimate, i keep the best parts of the decimated models, stich em up like frankenstein, mirror left to right if the model is done that way, fix any details i need to have good animation.
this gives me the best of all scenarios. it's like i'm really doing photo manipulation by layers
There are some higher quality polygon reducers out there, but they tend to be kept in-house (CryTek) or live mostly in research papers. For instance there is the "Instant Meshes" siggraph paper which re-constructs meshes from a position field, and only requires manual input if you care about the edge flow.
it's good to make rough lods
I think both decimate and downscale can work, but the best artists always go a bit beyond that. Slapping any sort of filter on something won't save your lack of vision and taste
@@logandunlap9156 I think they work perfectly fine, just for their intended purpose, not as a means for a lazy artist to immediately alter a high fidelity piece into a lower fidelity one for literally any purpose. Decimate is great when it comes to creating the base shape of collision meshes for static objects, and downscale is a joy for quickly turning a big picture into a small icon for placeholder purposes, or for things that just really don't need to be all that readable anyway.
The main issue is not with the tools, it's that people desire to have things happen for them without them doing any real work. So they use these tools hoping they will perform miracles, which makes other people hate the tools. When really, people should hate the lazy artists who decided a single button was going to solve all their problems and make them money.
I'm a low poly enthusiast, with a special preference for the _very_ blocky look from the PSX and N64 era. A lot of people think that stuff looks dated and "muddy" these days, and I don't blame them, but I think they have a certain elegance to them.
I've made a few models myself, and I want to make more, but I don't have any sort of professional experience. This video was fantastic, I feel like I've already picked up on a lot that I hadn't even considered before. Thank you so much!
I know that feel; the majority (probably all) of my group of friends just don't get why I'd rather have a LAN party on Unreal2004 or Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II rather than CS:GO or Rainbow Siege; or Battle for Middle Earth 2 as opposed to their hyper-shiny Starcraft knockoff with nukes, lmao
This is exactly what I was looking for. I keep seeing tutorials saying "just throw a decimate modifier on your model" and I was genuinely looking for insight on designing and rigging low poly, and also PEERING into the minds of PS1 modelers/ WHY they had to model that way. INSANE that I've never heard of Ethan. This is amazing!!!!!!
I've been watching these GDC talks for days. This one has been the best so far.
Kinda blown away at how good a presenter Ethan Redd is. He has the right kind of intelligence that is sorely missing from every industry.
Agree
This was a really good presentation - but we don't really need to see the presenter full screen so often. I've noticed this in a few of the 2017 presentations. For 2018 please show the slides more often! I think the format with the presenter on the side (with a STATIONARY camera) and the slides taking the majority of the screen works much better.
This was a great talk, very well organized, nice set of visual ideas.
I really wanted to hear the answer to the last question, though!
If you see this Ethan and have the time, what is your take on applying advanced rendering techniques to low-poly art?
Wm Reeves hey, glad you liked it! In short I think it all comes down to execution; I've actually been experimenting with combining low poly with more advanced rendering and it's a fun clash. if you're curious feel free to peep my insta @kiddradd or hmu on twitter ^-^)b
i see no problem with using advanced rendering on low poly art. You can give your low poly scenes a feeling of being crafted from paper (like origami).
Yeah I wanted his opinion on PBR and Low Poly as that is something I'm interested in.
He only got 2 mins for questions but did 4 mins LOL If he answered that question he would probably be at 6mins extra so they cut him off hahaha great talk though
That was pretty fantastic. One of the more impressive GDC talks I've seen regarding aesthetics.
Very good talk. I've seen older developers say less in more time than this presenter.
He optimized his speech like he optimized his poly counts.
low poly to me is basically the pixel art of 3d. It's a lot easier to do but it can be extremely pretty when done well
one of the questions was about variation in low polly; depending on what you are making you can get some good results by applying noise it the locations of the vertices
I think a great example of a low poly model is crash bandicoot on the ps1, the model in my opinion looks better then the concept art and animates really nicely, including all those death animations and the spin witch is a modelled blur, really awesome.
If i am not wrong, crash was animated vertex by vertex, no rigs.
that curve approximation point is such a good analogy
Goddamn, I got to watch 2 insanely awesome GDC talks back to back - one from last year by Mike Ferrari and now this one. I sincerely hope Ethan creates the next big thing in gaming and reaps all the benefits since he deserves it.
^-^
I'm enjoying all these technical examples on what it means to do low-poly and the required fidelity to do so effectively.
So enjoyable! There is always this draw to low-poly rendering, for me atleast. Something that start so simple, elegant, beautiful.
Oh man I wanted to hear his answer to that last question. Talk about cliffhanger.
Definitely an interesting talk for developers trying to do simple visuals by themselves, but really really basic for actual 3D artists. I wish there was more in-depth talks about 3D art on GDC.
Working smart is the way to go. Great talk. : )
I appreciate this talk in spreading awareness that there are other methods than high-poly. Low poly offers a ton of benefits for performance, style and rapid development to benefit from.
I've recently been messing around in Blender and trying to teach myself how to sculpt/model stuff while watching/listening to youtube.
I was messing around with high poly models to then decimate them trying to make them into low-poly and absolutely struggling. I started to realize that I should limit how subdivided/high-poly I made them.
Now I'm finally wrapping my head around how to properly add/connect my own points to create my own rough shapes which I can then subdivide to increase their detail and smooth. Models are looking much better and more simple. This talk helped clarify how to approach this.
Blender 2.80 is so much better and user friendly than prior versions 💪
So low poly is basically the 3D version of pixel art. Nice.
The interesting part is that there are methods to essentially make low poly meshes with pixelart. And not only that there is the possibility of using more pixelart like textures for low poly art. Megaman legends comes to mind for pixelart textures and low poly modeling.
A lot of the design philosophy for both come from traditional art minimalism.
Highest amount of information conveyed using the fewest possible details.
These sort of ideas in art are far from new. They actually predate computers.
29:20 was a bit surprised to hear Liam Neeson asking questions at a GDC!
Sounded more like Qui-Gon Jinn
Sounded more like the guy from taken
Low poly: the perfect solution if you don't have any money, but what you do have is a very particular set of skills.
@@ElasticGiraffe underated
This talk was really solid. The speaker did a great job.
When he showed the example with the hands, my mind immediately went to the PSP Grand Theft Auto games.
The hands in those games are actually made of only three shapes: the thumb, the palm and all the fingers merged into one block.
The way Rockstar devs conveyed each individual finger was through textures and lighting, not with additional polygons.
If you're curious, search in RUclips "Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories - ALL CUTSCENES" and look at the characters' hands.
Really fascinating stuff, at least for me.
Really good talk. I'm working with voxels, which I'm not sure if they count, but this helps me a bit too.
It might surprise you, but your case was exactly what calculus was created for lol.
he goes into that...
Love low poly. Nostalgic, easy on the eyes (if done right - as with all things) and easy on the rig. Looks good and plays well. Can't say the same for most modern games.
Now this talk is very impressive. I was going in looking for recommended tools for this type of art style but ended up getting way more useful information and concepts from this creator!
I only use decimate when i'm lazy and it's for LOD levels of simple static object
edit: damn, i really wanted to hear the answer to the last question.
i think normal maps for example can help add minor detail like scratches or etching, but it need to be made for low poly, you can't just slap on some photorealistic pbr on a low poly mesh and expect it to look good.
A 16 sided polygon would be a hexadecagon, just in case anyone else was wondering.
3d Modelers shouldn't even know what a 16 sided polygon is. Ngons (any face with 5 or more sides/edges) are frowned upon. Even triangles can cause issues. People need to stick with quads.
Quads are friendlier for almost everything on the production side (ease of modeling, subdivision, deformation, texturing), but IMHO triangles are an important part of the "low poly aesthetic" for static assets. They're also around 20-30% less geometry for similar visual complexity, although that's likely not the bottleneck these days even on burner phones.
Just want to say wow. That was a super logical breakdown of considerations. Formulating each idea as an axis of tradeoffs and benefits. Each axis pivoting around a formal art theory concept. Bringing art theory to low poly. I hope your formulations go viral, enabling time constrained indevs to really infuse their assets with feeling. GG.
Fantastic presentation! Kinda bummed the last question got cut off though, was interested in hearing the answer!
I was literally thinking about how you'd like this talk and, behold, there you were in the comment section.
Tommy Oliver watches GDC videos
wow, this guy is fantastic. I love the riemann sum looking graphs help explain how low fidelity you can go
The last question was easily the most interesting, pitty he was cut off.
high poly to lowpoly is a good way to go, and u can extract the normal map from the highpoly and apply it to the low poly and make it look high poly with performance gain from going low poly, that u get the good of both world without really compromising so much.
11:40 it is SO annoying the camera people keep changing the shot JUST to be changing it, often showing the guy instead of the VISUAL AIDE he's trying to show us. for a brief moment there's a side by side shot of him AND the screen. why wouldn't you just use this shot for the whole video? smh. the actual content is fantastic.
The workflow presented was very useful to implement straight away as a philosophy, enforcing that economy axiom. I'll keep it in mind.
His points are also great for beginners imo since it teaches great principles and work flows. I'm a programmer and I feel like I should start here. Cant wait to try them out
I would realy like to hear his answer to that last question. Ethan seems to know about this subject. Great talk
Low poly is totally enough for players.
Great talk and presenter. I like the way he was surprised that he found something useful in calculus.
Brilliant talk! Definitely going to watch this a few times and pick it apart for all the great gems!
as clear as pure water dude! ur a low end device hero!
24:36 this is realy smart.. flipping normals to emulate transparency, wow i would never come up with this kind of stuff
This was super insightful and informative, thanks a ton!
Great presentation, someone knows what he's talking about
This young man showed me the light!
Look forward to playing it dude.
Thank you and have a wonderful day.
Many people think low-poly = lack of skill I personally think it's all about time... many people who work in indie dev have skills to produce AAA quality but they don't have time to do everything.
Really good talk presented by an enthusiastic speaker.
Fascinating perspective on visual design.
This talk is so valuable
Ethan Red standing by!
This dude makes really interesting looking games
4:59 Blender squad represent!
When people question if games can be art, direct them to this talk.
This is helpful. Thanks. Nice presentation. Low poly is good.
He had some great visuals. It’s frustrating how little time was given to his presentation.
Loved the talk. Lot's of a great ideas! Got me excited about making low poly games.
The irony of a presenter this good joking about people getting to send him hatemail in the last slide.
One of the best talks ive seen on gdc :)
I miss PS2 graphics.
This was brilliant, thank you.
Great well explained speech. Props.
Thanks for this démonstration
Interesting talk, though the results could look better. Textures seem to be the key here. Probably why megaman legends looks so good.
yeah I'd realllly like to see the textureless models of Mega Man Legends
I wish I could like a video twice
Damn it, I love this topic, I need this information, but the guy's talk is... moisty.
Great talk with clear explanations of the concepts presented!
Omg I never thought of flipping the normals on class.. was always thinking transparency. That's a great trick, how do you pull off the fluids inside though? Really would like to know how to make good looking potions lol
You have the top render 'correctly' and then the sides with inverted normals right?
I love low Poly, this is great.
Wow, wonderful talk. Very cool guy.
Excellent, very informative for any designer
great presentation
Outstanding talk
i really would love to know how to bake textures for low quantity like 2-3 only... anyhelp on it (blender if possible) ??
I loved this panel,my goal is make something like ''tunic'' game, one of my big inspirations
This was a fantastic talk! Great work, Ethan!
what an amazing talk! i would have liked the answer to the last question : )
Loved this talk, feeling inspired :)
Fantastic breakdown.
Pretty rad talk!
The end question was the best one, does anyone has an opinion on it.?
Awesome talk !
Very well done presentation.
Low-Poly is the pixelart of 3D
Looks like Jaden Smith. This is a really good talk by the way!
This making me hyped to make my own game.
Great speech well thought out and informative.
Excellent talk!
Great presentation!
good talk, been working on low poly for a long time now. I just love the style, too cute.
64 to 32 is DEFINITELY visible. But I understand where's he's coming from though lmaooo
Low poly can look AMAZING.
I think low poly is the future. Think about it if people are willing to buy books, there's a market for lower fidelity games that are interesting. AI can also improve low poly to appear higher fidelity as well.
Cool talk I'd love to see what he's working on now.
Also I like the easter egg "for hatemail" to his email, haha
cool talk!!
11:50 - Actually, the name is hexadecagon ?