30 Things I Hate About Your Game Pitch
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- Опубликовано: 1 ноя 2017
- In this 2017 GDC talk, Game On The Rails' Brian Upton describes thirty annoying or counterproductive things that you should avoid when you're pitching your game to a publisher. Learn how publishers evaluate the games that are pitched to them, what they care about and what they don't, and what you can do to present your own game in the best possible light.
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>You just pitched a phone game to a console publisher.
This aged well.
...?
both still exist.
Blizzard in a nutshell.
How Blizzard dies
yall have phones right?
is this some kind of out of season april fools joke?
There goes my super realistic VR simulator where you manage the inventory for a game show with an extensive fantasy setting and complex monetization model.
And never take a shower
That one sounds interesting.
@@abidingknack7013 Managing the inventory for a game show sounds interesting?
@@leandrog2785 absolutely ... you have options like "Who stole the dragon?" and "Hey dwarf, you're one in 5 ... you sober mate? No, we'll sub in a gnome instead".
Amazon simulator. All inventory all the time.
People are complaining that this is too obvious, but he’s clearly seen people do this shit a lot. I feel a little bad for him.
It's like a piano teacher telling their student to press the right keys instead of the wrong ones.
The student answers: "Obviously!"
To which the teacher responds: "But you're not doing it."
The teacher has a point.
Once during work, my boss told me to listen to somebody pitch a game idea on behalf of him because he had a meeting to attend. I sat down with that guy and he spent 15 minutes talking about the backstory and characters. I stopped and asked him about the game mechanics and he said he would get to it next so out of respect and faith, I listened. 5 minutes later and he was talking about politics and conflicts between his fantasy world. That's when I decided to call it off.
Those people are not nerds which develop games. Nerds do not interact with people well.
All of this is obvious, but it's still forgotten by so many people in production
Specially point 1. If someone says he has a game idea and spends over 30 minutes talking about a story and never mentions what his unique mechanics are or what experience he's attempting to archive chances are he has no clue what he's doing.
It sounds like a lot of modern AAA games would fail their pitch if they weren't already well established
Yeah, this talk seems targeted towards a certain kind of audience that isn't already an employee of the developer/publisher, who wouldn't need to worry about some of these points.
Some hooks would be communicated like: Yes, that already exists, but we are [insert Company name]. Hello Blizzard o/
The sad part about gaming industry is that actual creative people are thrown away or can't sell a game well and the ones who are established can't be bothered anymore.
“Okay we’ve got an idea for a basketball game. How is it different from the others? It’s not lol but we’re EA they’ll buy it no matter what. Hell we can sell the same exact game and only change the roster and they’ll still pay full price”
@@porassrivastava8242 Name an industry or institution in human history where that hasn’t been the case.
I can feel the brutality of having my pitch denied from the comfort of my bedroom, technology. Just to be clear I love this
lol
You need to work in your self esteem
Good. Better to be denied before you put hundreds of hours into it so you can start working on a new idea
I mean, if I know going in what sucks, I can actually try to avoid it lol
@horriblepancake having a pitch denied wouldn't hurt me since now i know it just means my game wasn't capitalist enough
that's a win in my book
Brian offers a lot of great advice, but one crucial piece of information is left out, theft. When you're pitching an idea or vision, have a witness present or documentation that proves you covered specifics with individuals from the company in that room. Legally, you can steal an idea, but you can't steal the execution. It happens often. If you have an original mechanic not seen in the industry and you illustrate that in the pitch room, don't be surprised if it shows up a year later on Steam without your involvement. Document it and count on theft happening.
late response, but thank you for this. my naiveté would prevent me for thinking this would happen
CompositeEmbryo people love to leverage whichever amount of power they have to steal good ideas. It happens in all industries
I hate steam for so many reasons. I preferred games before it was invented. I stopped playing games because of it.
Why?
@@chrissie1057 can you give us those reasons ?
30 reasons starcitizen was crowdfunded instead of pitched.
That's the truth.
My imaginary spaceship is justified
@@soljafon I guess 3 ships unfinished is imaginary? Games stellar bruh
@@alexterrel9594 no the game will never amount to shit
And that's why i spend about an hour a day playing sc. You didn't see the satire lol.
Star Citizen is a very excellent and well-executed scam.
Even if you're indie, most of this is actually good advice on how to sell a game.
ShiroiKrow even pros screw this up he said lol it sucks but you are spot on, this is great advice that’s for dang sure.
I don't even plan to sell my game to any publishers, this just sounds like generally useful info for reddit posts and a steam store page. All developers planning to sell their game should learn sale pitches.
@@WARDEATHFUN I agree. Even as a final user (or customer, if you prefer) a lot of what he said applies if you (dev) want to sell a game to me.
For instance I don't give a shit about your "deep and complex lore" (which there are good chances won't be anywhere as good as you think it to be, anyway) if you didn't show me something about your gameplay loop that seems appealing to me, first.
If it´s not a live-service, it won´t be made.
@Nob the Knave The issue isn't that the game has a backstory or lore - those will help keep players invested and engaged - the issue is that the lore and backstory don't matter when it comes to the validity of the game.
There are 337 books in Skyrim that all add varying amount of lore to the game. But they don't contribute to the gameplay, and in fact, they could be swapped with 337 different books and you would still have the same game.
If I were to pitch Skyrim it would be foolish of me to focus on the pantheon and game tales - I could say the player will be presented with a rich history that they will be able to, if they choose, explore through items and locations, but the exact details of that history don't need to be explained during the initial game pitch.
I'm a game development teacher, and I can tell you that it's really important for new developers and students to hear stuff very frankly like this without sugar coating. Thanks for this.
Then your not a very good teacher, this guy is so full of it, the level of gatkeeping in this is so high that he should just tell people to not even bother. A real creative leader blows holes in walls the size of planets, a game IS about the story IS about the backstory, we are not getting great games after games in the past 3 years, we need to start taking the rules and throwing them out the fucking air lock.
Andrew Scheuerman He’s not saying that story isn’t important to a game (He worked as a narrative designer). The talk isn’t about how to *make* a great game, it’s about how to *pitch* that game to a publisher. A publisher needs to know if they can sell your game and they can’t sell a game on hours of lore; it wouldn’t fit in an advertisement).
@Eclipse538 can u give me some advice im gave a story for a game
@@Viothon I mean, the story is important but if you have no clue what the player will be doing or the mechanics or how much the game will cost to make or what makes it different and interesting from other games you should probably just write a book instead
I like your dog in your profile picture
The two questions: Number 1, "Is the game worth making?" and Number 2, "Can the team make it?"
- The List of 30 Things:
1. Minimize Backstory (2:19) = Unless it's relevant to the pitch, don't include it.
Ex: Quickly establishing the setting is fine, not a 5-minute explanation of the character's backstory.
2. Inventory System/Standard Features (3:18) = If your game has unique systems, showcase them. Otherwise only briefly mention standard systems.
Ex: "This game uses colors to create a puzzle for players to solve." "It would also have checkpoints and an inventory system."
3. I'm not designing your game for you (3:58) = You want to pitch the game you want to make, not ask what they want.
Ex: "This is a first-person zombie game centered around hunting humans for food and power-ups." Not "Do you want it to be first person or third person?"
4. Pillars are not Hooks (4:51) = Mention the unique thing that makes the game stand out from other games, not the pillars that enforce it.
Ex: Using a grappling mechanic to fly through trees and slay ninja's would be the unique thing that hooks players in. Movement and combat would be the core pillars of the game.
5. What players do? (5:44) = Mention what the player does and the mechanics they can use.
Ex: "The player eats humans to grow stronger in both pure strength and in the abilities they can use. The different abilities the player can use come from the human they eat, which...... bla bla bla."
6. Use of Realism (6:37) = Unless realism is a part of the game's design, don't restrict yourself to realism. Don't use realism to justify bad design.
Ex: "Well let them refuel the car in 10 seconds, so we can emphasize the amount of fuel in the car while still respecting the player's time." Not "It should take minutes to refuel an empty car's gas tank."
7. Game Show (7:23) = If you don't need a frame story, don't add one. (A frame story is a narrative that frames or surrounds another story or set of stories.)
8. Parody (8:10) = Introducing a game as a parody usually arises if the game can't stand on its own without being taken as a joke. That doesn't mean you shouldn't make parody games though.
9. Glaring Tech Risk (8:50) = It's okay to do something dangerous and hard, but not if you don't explain how you're going to pull it off. You need to acknowledge the big risk(s) and tell people how you're going to handle such risk(s).
10. Prototyping (9:49) = When prototyping, focus on the things that are unique, different, and hard for your game. Showcase the hook of your game and that you're able to mitigate the risk that comes with it.
11. Shitty Art (10:52) = Using lots of shitty art won't sell your game, just one or two high-quality ones can.
12. Placeholders (11:37) = An obvious placeholder is better than bad art that looks final.
13. Early Polish (12:20) = Still images of what you or your team is capable of is better than a broken prototype that looks good.
14. Sample Dialogue (13:25) = If sample dialogue is a part of your pitch, show what you capable of and not crappy placeholder dialogue.
15. Tech Craze (14:20) = Don't use the latest tech unless it makes sense in the context of your game.
16. Platforms/Genre (15:04) = Research who you are pitching to so you know what platforms and genre a certain company or publishers work in as well as what they might be interested in.
17. Gone Home already exists (15:59) = If your going to remake something that already exists and maybe was even successful, distinguish what is different. What does your game do that that one doesn't?
18. Intellectual property (16:52) = Negotiations for intellectual property should happen in advance before you go to a publisher.
19. Monetization over Mechanics (17:42) = Mention a basic idea of the monetization plan, and save the details for development.
20. Know the cost (18:45) = Have an idea of the game's scope; how much it will cost, how many people do you need, how much time, etc...
21. Team? (19:43) = Have an idea of who you would like to hire if you don't already have a large enough team to work with.
22. Business plan outliers (20:27) = When making your business plan, make sure it isn't based on outliers.
23. Don't be an ass (21:17) = If you can't be friendly or agreeable in a pitch meeting, people aren't gonna want to work with you regardless of how good your game is.
24. Who are you? (22:19) = Don't rely on or expect people to know who you are in order to sell a pitch. Introduce yourself and your background on what you've done before if needed.
25. Questions!!??? (22:41) = Don't get annoyed if being asked questions, especially if you scripted answering them later on
26. Test before pitching (23:25) = Bring or use the adequate technology to sell your pitch, don't just show it on your phone.
27. Laptop without headphones (23:55) = If the sound is important to your game, bring headphones.
28. Sober (24:28) = Be sober to show you are taking it seriously and can pull yourself together.
29. Don't trash talk (25:07) = Don't trash other games, companies, and developers. The publishers will wonder how you will talk about them and might have worked on the games or companies you are trashing.
30. Shower (25:40) = "I shouldn't have to tell you this."
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Thank you all for the replies.
Thank you you're awesome
@@mohamedMustafa-yn4uc No, YOU are awesome.
You sir, you are a savior.
Damn that's some real effort. Thanks!
@@zaidlacksalastname4905 Thank you.
Here's my game pitch: Batman: Arkham Asylum, but an MMO. Everyone is batmans in Arkham and they're all punching each other all the time. Goals? No goals. The emphasis is on creative gameplay. It's exactly like minecraft but better because you can be a batman.
Give me money.
will your game really make me feel like batman, though?
Yes. But everyone else is batman as well, so what that really means is that batman is dead, and we killed him.
I laughed too hard when you said “but better because you can be batman”
Does anyone really own batman? We're talking about him now. I think batman would like to have a game where he could punch himself over and over until he was dead. DC can pay us later for helping kids with leukemia understand their anger at batman.
Will french people be allowed to play this game ?
I love how this talk just came out of what must have been countless hours of complaining to friends and co-workers about bad pitches ha
It is funny that the typical talk always tries to be positive and optimistic, but this guy is not afraid of being very negative. It is his job and he is just honest and realistic. I like it.
He's honest about what he wants, I'll give you that. It's just a shame what he wants is for people to pretend like publishers aren't the cause of all the negativity and toxicity in the industry he's apparently sick of hearing about in pitch meetings. He's honest, but he wants everybody else he works with to stop being so honest with him. He can't handle the honesty.
I am lost, I have no idea what are you talking about.
Brian Upton can't handle devs talking about monetization. Brian Upton can't handle devs complaining about bad publishers they've had to deal with before. Brian Upton can't handle honest criticism of bad industry practices. Brian Upton can't handle devs who act like his publishing company only cares about money, not gameplay, creativity, or passion. Brian Upton can't handle the fact that PUBLISHER behavior causes all of these things.
Warp Zone. Let me guess... you are under 20 year old and you never went through a job interview.
Changing the subject every time the other guy makes a point you can't refute? Brilliant. Won't work here. I'm over 30 and I've gotten several jobs in my life. Doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about here. Everything he's complaining about in this video is a reaction to the way Publishers are perceived. If he wants to fix the problem, he should start by cleaning up his own company's practices.
What's great about this is it isn't *really* about pitches for the most part, it's really about how the pitch foretells major design issues before they occur. We can all name titles that succumbed to issues in design, scope or misapplied focus like he describes seeing in pitches.
I know this an old comment. But yes! People should use this guide to pitch their game to themselves.
I want a survival parody game. Like you punch a tree and break your hand.
you just go in an infinite cycle of doing exaggerated survival mechanics and have to solve them going wrong with another exaggerated mechanic. You break your hand trying to get wood, then you make bandages, then you get an infection, then you make antibiotics, then you get sick, then you make a herb medicine, then you get diarrhea, then you use leaves as toilet paper, then you deal with poison ivy inflamation on your asshole, and it goes on.
play the minecraft mod, realcraft, you get hurt by punching blocks
Better, you are the tree and you farm survivors
@@DanielFerreira-ez8qd this basicly sound like if green hell and dark souls made a child
That sounds utterly hilarious. I don't even care if literally no one played it. Just it existing would be amusing. Brb booting up Unreal Engine
"i know you're going to be able to execute on character's opening door" ..unless you're bethesda
there are no doors to open in rainbow six siege, only doorways mate.
I don't see the problem. Hold a plate to your face and clip through like normal people. If I can't see the wall, there is no wall. I do this irl when I forget my keys.
lol, nice one bro :)
"Why is your prototype just walking across the room and opening doors? The boring stuff?"
"Because we're pitching this to Bethesda. We have to be the ones to take care of this stuff, because they can't"
Or ladders lol
This is a fantastic list of don'ts that simultaneously are DO THESE (opposites). Each and every "don't do this" comes with a "but here's how you can do it right". This is the kind of advice that should be shown to every budding game designer. The comment on writing... pay your writers properly. A good writer is worth 60k (no experience) -100k+ (quality experience) a year.
In Israel, the 60k is actually something even experienced writers don't get paid. In fact, there were so many times people were offended when I said they should pay if they want me to write
I'm not even a game dev but this seems like good general advice for a variety of subjects.
@SeriousName To quote jocaguz18, (sorry, didn't even see this pop up in my feed), royalties. Create a binding contract (binds YOU) that states you'll pay X amount of money for every $ earned (as a percentage) - not profit, money at source. You should be in this habit straight out of the gate - as it will cripple the indie studio if it's discovered that they rip off their talent and don't pay them - and it's even worse if they say "we did pay them, look, they signed this contract, and we paid them $200..." while raking in millions.
@@yevgenyblinov48 Yeah, in North America too, the idea of "pay as little as possible for talent that takes decades to perfect" is pretty standard... which is why there are sooooooo many badly written games. It sucks hard. Most of the time it's because the producers want fat pockets.
@SeriousName That is exactly what I was referring to (and the majority of indie teams tend to be small). It's easy to write in a clause to include the creative teams. Imagine if the man who made Minecraft had just said "hey, I'm an indie guy, and I can pay you peanuts to do the skins for my game" then went on to make the tens of millions he did... and the people who did the work got not a penny more (not what happened, but for a case example). The teams *CAN* afford to pay profit percentages - it's called the cost of production. 1-5% (depends on input and work done) is still peanuts. For example, posting a game on Steam, you pay $100 for the privilege, then let's say the company earns $1000 - they see $700 (30% is Valve's cut). Pay your writer 2% (since they did *everything*), and that's three fancy coffees at Starbucks ($14). Sure as heck an indie company can afford that. They should expect to pull in between 15-30% of the money in after everyone is properly paid. There's no good excuse not to pay people well and properly for their work.
"Nobody buys a game for you monetization plan"
THANK YOU!
Unless it is an innovative and promising monetization plan with no current competitors in the game market...
That's just a bald-faced lie. You might have to pitch to EA or Activision, but there are definitely companies that do.
I think there's a confusion between how things are and how they should be.
@Lotakaz What? You're not the one being pitched to. You realise this is for pitching to publishers and not customers, right? Did you even know what this video is about? Get back into school.
Considering how many f2p p2w games are made, I don't believe this statement.
Monetization is the most important factor for a publisher. If it doesn't attract consumers in one way or another, they won't support it.
And, this guy has some good points, but repeating 'how does your game differ from existing games' is definitely not the most important factor for a successful game.
Innovation is not always good, a game that is extremely well polished, with working mechanics that makes it better than the rest is more important. how many shitty game clones do exist just because they are not polished, too many. LOL or Dota is polished, many other mobas are not, just as an example.
12:30 "This is from a game I worked on where we did like final art for all the ships before we had our combat modelled down and all the stuff got thrown out."
hysterical laugh
(dies inside once again)
which game was it
lebensraummetal looks like an early halo game notice the front and back turrets are pretty much the same one as the pillar of autum from halo reach
It also looks very similar to one of the capitol ship types in "Star Conflict" missions.
😂
@@warpig3520 I really don't think it's halo but ok
Star Citizen fell from the tree of "30 things he hates about our game pitch" and hit almost all the branches XD
I probably wont ever pitch a game to a publisher, but this is a great talk on pitfalls of any pitch really.
Amused at all the people who seem to hate this or him or make fun of him, or think he does not understand game design.
Remember, he's talking about how a developer should sell their game to a publisher.
He is talking about how a developer goes to a publisher, and begs them to pay money to make the game. People who are funding a game need to be given a reason to fund the game..to pay money to have this game be made.
And honestly if the stuff he says sounds too harsh..too strict, or anything like that. I really hope you don't take that attitude with you when you are looking for a job. Because A LOT of the stuff he talks about here also applies to applying for jobs (don't talk bad about previous employers, don't down talk other people or act overly negative, be ready for questions, etc). Again you're trying to sell your abilities..and in game making, your vision of the game, not what other people are like.
As for the whole bit of people pissed about him saying you shouldn't focus on the fluff.
Again you're trying to pitch the game as something marketable. if you're pitching Mario you don't pitch "fighting mushroom people, eating mushrooms and flowers, princess is in the next castle, boss falls in lava to die, how much sega sucks". No you pitch "platformer, varied level designs, powerup system that also acts as your health, linear game flow, a life system that allows around 3 failures before giving a true game over and you can increase the number of chances during gameplay".
Honestly I like the fact he's rather frank...and I find it sad that some (not all, just some) of these things need to be said...as a lot of this is good for also finding a non-gaming job.
Because these are the videos they let anyone watch without paying for you tend to get a lot of gamers and hobbyists watching, people who don't understand what the other side of the gaming coin is like. Thus you get the kind of reactions you are talking about.
It's OK, this talk was never meant for them anyway. And if some of those people ARE making pitches and STILL want to talk shit, well let their smelly, unwashed asses try to go on for 30 minutes about the beautiful game world they've created and all the narrative they've written and the people with money's eyes will glaze over and they'll never get funded.
As a recent game design graduate who is still trying to refine their first indie game, these tips are a lot of help, sure some of them are common sense, like have a fucking shower, but the first ten especially are VITAL to a good pitch, and having heard pitches (and given a few myself) in class even AFTER we had been taught the do's and don't's of giving a pitch that were still cringe worthy and disastrous just goes to emphasize how easy it is to do one of these 30 don't do's.
The Mario example is extremely useful actually
I don't even understand why it would matter if he knows a damn thing about game design. In this line of profession ,it isn't his job to understand it and it's your job to sell him your idea. He did a perfectly fine presentation and every "artist" that's too full of themself to not know their place will make a lot of these mistakes. You're not always selling to game developers or designers, you're selling to a business men and you need good presentation skills to make them happy.
Thre term 'platformer' didn't even exist when Mario came out.
I actually asked for exactly this in a "Ask The Publishers" pitch Q&A at GDCE in 2011 and got some really nasty looks and a somewhat spiteful reply from the panel. Nice to see someone from the money end of the industry finally answer that question, even if it's a totally different guy from a totally different company on a different continent...
Remember, don't talk trash about previous publishers 👆 jk
@@deimon451 I look it as a compliment to this guy rather than the other way around :)
wait, what did you ask?
Minicule X It was a workshop on “what to say at your pitch”. I asked “what should we definitely not say or do? Are there any red flags we should be avoiding?”
@@WillRobinson how did they respond spitefully? "well, don't shit on the desk"?
Side note on parody: Good satire is always a shining example of the item being poked at. Airplane is a tense and exciting disaster movie that is also a satire of the genre.
Galaxy Quest is another great example
Hot Fuzz is a more than decent cop action movie in itself. You have to really understand and love your subject in order to make a funny parody.
Space balls is the best space movie, fight me
for a video game example: The Loooker is a smart and interesting puzzle game that is also a pisstake
This is framed superficially in terms of negativity and what he hates, but honestly I didn't find it negative at all, just a really careful, concrete rundown of a whole bunch of common problems, with concise explanations of why they are problems and how to fix them.
If a video game was a chocolate bar, then pitch the caramel filling first, not the shiny wrapper.
Nathan Gatten who wants the chocolate or the wrapper I only want the golden ticket
>Food analogies
"Half of the people coming to me are saying they don't want to put poison in their candy bars, and the other half are bragging about how much poison they can cram into the candy bars-- stop discussing this at the pitch meetings! We'll cover poisoning our customers in the marketing and retention meetings later."
Start with your scheme to put poison in the candy bars then sell consumers a box that will possibly contain the antidote for an additional fee.
+oopsy444
*breath*
"I GOT A GOLDEN TICKET!"
Swap every time he uses the word "game" with "project", the advice remains mostly the same. A lot of this is really good advice for pitching projects and just meeting etiquette in general.
This gave a ton of insight on how people work in general, great speech!
Almost everything he said is valid or very easily transferable to any other pitch situation. Movies, advertising, hell even push any idea in any branch. This was indeed a very helpful speech, not just for game developers.
Brain: watch it
Me: but im gonna go in the medical industry
Brain: do it anyways
Perfect opportunity to make a spiritual successor to Trauma Team!
dont do it. trust me - it'll destroy your soul.
I read this as “Brian” and thought you were saying that Brian was willing you to watch it lmao
Funny enough BioWare was founded by doctors
basically dont be so in love with an "idea" that you forget you actually have too make it happen.
Chris Roberts on the phone. Jk don't ban me Senpai, I'll wait all the 15 years of Development
As a game developer, this is really useful information. Most of the things in life are "basic" and "common knowledge" but it's great to have it documented for us to come back and remember. The most simplest things are the building blocks of any foundation.
Rule #31: Don't make me ask "Is this an out-of-season April Fool joke?"
That's just rule 16.
Diablo mobile version
I'm pretty sure those are just called jokes
I don't even make games but was extremely interested the whole way thru!
i watch most of these even though i dont make any or have any interest in making them yet, its just nice to know these especially since you can tell anyone you know who does make games about how to do things properly
I started to get angry around the halfway point. But it wasn't because of what it was saying. It was the attitude of detached entitlement underneath what he wasn't saying. He's acting like it's not publishers' faults that the gaming public, including indie developers, expects publishers to care more about monetization and shoehorned-in features than gameplay. Devs are just parroting back to them their Revealed Preferences in these meetings.
Warp Zone he never communicated any of that. He merely said, that’s not a core aspect of the game and shouldn’t be included in the pitch itself. You have a right to be angry given how scummy a lot of the incorporation loot boxes and other micro transactions are but you’re getting angry at the wrong dude. That’s most likely a decision made after the pitch is accepted and development is well underway.
I tinker with pen and paper roleplaying games so I (technically) don't need to sell to a publisher but a lot of the stuff mentioned still applies.
More reasons that the childhood fantasy of making a career out of games was kinda stupid.
I love coming back to these comments just to see the new waves of people who completely miss his point or get upset he isnt acting like publishers are benevolent beings.
Dude same
1# is funny to be me because I've seen so many new devs introduce new games at E3 and other events by talking about their game's backstory. Why do they think that's so important for selling their game? Excellent talk by the way.
They are inexperienced. it's like opening a book with info dumps, it wuld never be traditionally published.
Pitching to the general public is completely different.
@@MrSqurk info dumps are still unnecessary.
Same concept.
I think it depends on the game's genre. If it's an RPG, arguably the setting and its story are almost as important as the gameplay. And generally speaking it's very rare to see an RPG trailer or on-stage showcase that doesn't start talking about the setting and then move on to gameplay.
Also, like others pointed out. pitching to publishers and selling to your target audience are completely different beasts.
It's not really about the genre, some games are more story focused, some aren't. I don't have to know the lore of the Mario universe to be sold a Paper Mario game, and if you pay attention to those trailers they usually focus on the main gimmick of the game. In general, unless your game is strictly story-driven, such as a visual novel, it's probably not necessary to give too much information on the world and lore. People will want to learn more if they become interested, just look at any of the many games that were made without any actual lore that people then start theorizing about because they *want* to know.
Him: “it’s very easy to get a prototype of someone walking around”
Me: just spent 5 hours working on an FPS player controller in unity and my jump ability is still not working.
but it is one of those things you only ever have to do once.
Easy name to pronounce nah fam if you copy the same player movement from game to game they will all feel the same right?
@@austinc2997 Well its certainly not that important like he mentioned in point #2
Look at how many FPS titles have the same sprint/run/walk/crouch systems from recent years, especially those that have a bigger singleplayer focus
Kano 404 you’re right FPS games don’t require movement, it’s not important... I was making a joke man, let’s just leave it at that.
Just 5 hours?
I'm not a developer and have no aspirations to be one, but this talk is really compelling to listen to. Brian Upton is an interesting speaker and his to-the-point, no BS delivery is refreshing. Everything he says is value-adding, no filler. I love when people don't sugar coat and just tell people what they need to hear.
"Don't tell me your character can open doors because I know they will be able to"
Untrue. If modern fps are anything to go by, having your character open doors is an incredibly difficult task.
That's not what he said. It was more like "You don't need to try to prove to me that you are able to make the character open doors, because i know that you are".
@@leandrog2785
I think that OP's point, I saw someone elsewere point out Bethesda for Fallout 76, proving that its actually a bad idea to assume a game developer can code a character opening a door...
@@kjj26k basics like opening a door is still not a "pitch".
Ineptitude is irrelevant.
@Tyler Fox its ineptitude in my opinion because it shows me that as a pitcher, you have no idea wtf youre talking about.
I wouldnt out a door open pitcher in charge of anything..i wouldnt even listen to the rest of the pitch, hed just end up wasting the projects money on dumb things
Yeah, just look at World of Warcraft.. barely a single door in their entire world.
And almost none that are open-able. And if there is a doorway it's either empty or has a portal inside of it.
If they can't do doors.. then no one can. :D
That was a badass presentation. You can tell this guy has lots of experience with presenting content to people. This was short, snappy, and informative. Great presentation with worthwile common sense advice.
I can double jump.
This Man speaks from the true gospel!!
I'm sold.
It's actually refreshing to hear this talk, if too much niceties are going around then important things start to get too concealed or covered, from time to time it's good to hear just the blunt truths.
i'm not a developer but i really enjoyed this. a mature,intelligent person explaining how people should go about doing something. was a nice experience. great video!
I'm not a game designer, but I'm a painter. Needless to say, this advice applies to all industries. Thank you for posting this
A lot of this actually translates well to pitching screenplays to producers also.
16:00 Tell this to every MMO publisher please. I'm so sick of WoW clones at this point, and I understand that they're "safe" because they're a tried-and-true method, but really, you could be publishing something that's worth SO much more, and instead you blow the time and money on "WoW, but you can dodge more often" and "WoW, but it has neat JRPG art"...
It really is a shame that MMOs have been taken that route for so long that it almost seems like if an MMO doesn't conform and actually tries something new that it might struggle to succeed. It's why I appreciate things like Shroud of the Avatar, Life is Feudal, the now long defunct Star Wars Galaxies and, hell, to an extent even GTA Online (despite its missteps) for remembering the only thing that defines an MMO is the "Massively Multiplayer Online" part - not the excessively self-limiting hotbars, Xp bars, subscription fees, and stat building that people associate with the term "mmo"
Yeah, I think people are thinking of it in terms of safety, when who is it that ever thinks of how "safe" something is that's clearly fun in literally any other genre. "Oh, this Chess thing is really cool, lots of tactics... but are people really going to understand all these extra pieces? Let's just make the game board 10x bigger and only have pawns." So there's not even a chance, they never make anything compelling enough to get an edge. But what do I know, I find WoW fucking boring as shit, so I'm clearly not their market demographic industry industry industry.
but it seems like nobody gets what WoW was about, we have tons of MMO's without player factions, without different start points for different races, without BIG 25 men and more raids, without clearly identified raid roles, without city raids, without secrets/easter eggs/tributes to legendary players, without the classic 3 way skill trees, without jobs or with trivialized jobs, with vanity gear, with a cheesy player centralized story like you are the one true hero, with a linear quest line, with fast travel that takes away the feeling of being in a gigantic world. and that is what WoW really was, this gigantic world you got thrown into as a nobody, going into the fight on the side of your heroes and 9 to 24 or sometimes more friends you probably met in this world. WoW truly felt like a world, unlike all the games that tried to only be like one little piece of WoW.
To me it felt like someone's attempt to turn hundreds of thousands of fetch and kill quests into a long string of increasingly irrelevant exposition, but to each their own I guess.
someone actually pitched anime WoW?
Jesus, after hearing this I can't help but think of the sea of trash that flooded the Steam store after their Greenlight project. I imagine this guy has seen a lot of the people behind that mess in person.
So basically: be presentable, be prepared, be positive, be practical, be purposeful.
dont be naive, thats right
Well said!
The 5 P’s
Be polite, be efficient, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
At 10:25 I imagined a studio that struggled to get their character to open doors, finally made a break through and succesfully prototyped it, then showed it this guy
I get flashbacks from my professor's reaction after the whole class showed a presentation
You'd think a good teacher would have said all that stuff when he was giving the assignment. ESPECIALLY if it happens all the time and he's sick of it. I mean, he's just making more work for himself saying it after the fact.
As someone who has received and fielded tons of business plans as well as interviews; this is gold. Ideas are commonplace; nobody gets paid on an idea. Every success is 95% (or more) execution and your idea is your secret sauce; your vision as your compass... how you monetize that execution. Regardless of industry.
This is a great guide for pitching pretty much anything.
Also his demeanor of "I assume you're about to waste my time because that is what everyone else is doing. So I already don't like you and I really wish I could just tell you to fuck off before you even open your mouth" is really important to be familiar and comfortable with, since this is gonna be an obstacle in your profession no matter what.
Talks like these are very valuable. I would ask that a university includes listening to this as a homework assignment in one of their game dev classes.
@17:55 - "nobody buys a game for a monetization plan"
Dunno about that, could always pitch it to EA or Activision ...
those two assholes need to go bankrupt, but that won't happen with all those people who pay thousands just to get new cosmetics and pay2win shit. Microtransactions wouldn't exist if people didn't pay it and that is what really drives me up a wall, the fact that companies think ruining their game with pay2win shit is ok and that players are willing to kill their wallet with that shit to win, and it's so prevalent in AAA. Ugh
They would not want your advice on their monetization plan, they would just add it to your game/s.
As someone who's always had game design as a career in the back of his mind, it was fun to hear all this and think about one of my ideas as if I were presenting it even if I'll never actually do it
lmao i just imagine all the star citizen devs just sweating bullets after 12:21 almost felt like a straight jab at them haha
You need polish to sell virtual spaceships before there even exists an ounce of gameplay ...
As an indie who has learned from multiple ads and other people who pitched to me, I can confirm that you should focus on your game's core concepts, aka the foundation. Talk directly about the purpose of the project idea; this will help you and your teammates understand what's being worked on
EDIT: #20 is a big big no-no; I've seen far too many of that.
I'm not a game dev, (I just play games, but I am an amateur model maker and animator) but this is really good advice. The bottom line is: You may only have 30 minutes to pitch your game. If you cannot sell the pitch of your game with succinctness and clarity, you came in unprepared, or at least, not as prepared as you thought you were. If you cannot take time out to answer questions, I think it means that you really haven't thought your product through as much as you think you did. If you are inclined to answer questions, it bodes well for you, because think on this: If they are asking you questions, you are getting a time extension of sorts. You may have been able to tack on a few extra minutes to your 30 minute pitch session...make the most of it...without violating the 30 things a publisher may hate about your pitch.
I've been making a fair share of these mistakes myself. I'm not alone, but I'm still a bit embarrassed, considering how obvious they sound listed like this.
@@antrygrevok6440 Indeed.
Don’t be embarrassed, it’s the only way you learn :)
@@randomguy6679 True, thanks for pointing that one out. It's easy to be your own worst critic, especially in games that's so competative.
@@maggiepie8810 Oh, ain’t that the truth. But hang in there, and don’t let those mistakes get you down for good!
Years on, this remains my favorite GDC talk.
I have the perfect stand-out idea for a game: A post apocalyptic open world sandbox FPS, with a craft survival system environment with plenty of grind, battle royale multiplayer only!
fallout 76?
No
A better way of saying it is a post apocalyptic world where survival of humanity is tested
And dont use grind dude people want something orignal game design is about wishful thinking what would wish you or the player could do in your game that u cant do in other games or the real world. Your features then need to be unique a craft inventory system is a feature it's not a core
You actually defined a feature set
But yeah
Fuck grind man 😂😂😂
You need these features
Training camp that actually trains nooobs to play better all games so far are about core loop progression its suppose to be core skill progression where player progresses when they train every time and then after each session there is a simulate boss fight like it would be with online players
For a first game a bit too much but dont actually do this in writing it's ok but when you do it you will burn yourself out but find a unique feature
Also make sure that everyone can afford any weapon it wipes out most of the economic designer's work flow
Yes it's your first game I do agree but dude you need to make it unique
@@marshall02019 dude when someone had that much money they dont care how much their game sucks look at rockstar 😂😂😂
They are basically adding features that are already there in other games gta 5 sucks the only thing that was good was the graphics
GTA 5 is nothing but previous games meshed with grand theft auto troop's it's a parody of games mixed up together and the reason it got alot of sales was because of the graphics and the fact its gta 5 even gta 4 had as much sales as gta 5 and the only reason they are surviving is micro transactions but nothing lasts forever
Wow #6 is something I've been thinking about a lot since getting a Switch, but this guy says it perfectly. Make games fun, not realistic.
Nintendo doesn't count. They REQUIRE devs to add superfluous gesture-based motion controls to games that would work better if you just used buttons for everything, all in the name of "immersion," which is just another word for "realism."
Immersion != realism. Not even close. So many unrealistic things can be immersive. Sounds in space for example.
+Spit Dragon
Next Generation gamers don't want realistic games.
They think they do, but if they actually get that, they'll trash it immediately.
Just look at Mario Odyssey's success.
Mario Odyssey breaks any possibility of being realistic, with the polygonal talking carrots and mid-air dives that let you zoom forward. Nothing about this game is realistic, yet people are eating that game _up._
Compare that to every single Kinect exclusive ever.
The only reason people buy Kinect exclusives anymore is to joke about how shitty they are. The games all suffer the same problem: _arm flailing._
All interesting gameplay mechanics are cast aside in favor of an attempt at realism gone wrong. Dragon Ball Z Kinect _feels_ like you're actually punching, but no one bought it because after they got their realism, they knew it was shit.
Matthew Hoinville
Quite true.
If you want balance for example, whether it's a shooter or a medieval game, you have to give up on realism. For example, if you take WW2, not every country had an assault rifle, and in fact, only Germany had an effective one. Do you just make a gun overpowered in the game or do you mess around with realism to balance it out?
The same can be applied to medieval games. Polearms would shit all over swords, axes would be quite terrible and maces would only be good in specific context. Do you just make your game so that everyone just runs around with spears? What if you had to hold a torch like a tit all the time because it's actually dark in fucking dungeons and there aren't torches on every wall.
Even without considering the audience, basic mechanics would be fucked by realism. Very few games are satisfying to the audience that wants realism, and even then there are many concessions.
Yes where is my double jump button on Zelda lol
Before Fall Guys and Among Us became huge, I had an idea for a social/party game about Greek ships racing for the Golden Fleece (think Fall Guys meets Sea of Thieves). Each ship would be a bunch of crew chosen at random with the gameplay being similar to a simple action game like Bastion or Zelda. To advance through the game, the ship would have to complete a competitive minigame against another crew on each island stop (some of the minigames would be sea battles too!) and whoever won would get a ship upgrade that would help them overcome the dangerous sea and traps around the Fleece. An example would be a special sail which would let you sail into the wind faster when it was directly against you.
Now the catch: Each shipmate would have a hidden goal. These goals would usually help the other team or at least slow your team down. For instance in a minigame where you had to run treasure back to the boat, you could may have to personally pocket 5 coins to win. Your personal objective would allow you to win (without it done, you could not grasp the Fleece). You would get extra points towards cosmetics, of course, for being the person to personally bag the Fleece for your team. If someone calls you on committing a foul to complete your personal goal and they're correct, you'll get banished to another team's ship. However, if they are wrong, they'll be banished. Banishment wouldn't be a huge punishment, but it would put you on a team that may not have the advantages your team does, so you'd want to weigh a greedy big win against a smaller team win that still gets you some points.
Man, if these are the kinds of narcs who make games then it makes me feel like even _I_ could make a good game.
This is so GREAT!!! I'm a filmmaker that is transitioning into interactive film or FMV's. This information is so fantastic because it not only applies to a game pitch but makes a lot of sense for a film pitch as well. Differences of course but very parallel application. THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS!!!!
I can just imagine a nerd pitching his manga 2,000 hour triple AAA rpg game to this guy and him going. "I don't give a shit"
I really liked hearing that the base of R6 was to create a shooter where twitch reactions didn't matter. This is precisely why I loved those games, my mind is what won games.
I'd be really interested to hear if they had the IP before or after that concept.
Why do i feel like so many actual released AAA games failed this section...
Learned a lot from this one. Going to take out most of features I was working on my game. They are not hooks and would add 60% more time on my game at least. So will just stick to basic hook as one person team.
"You don't understand.. sir, it has crafting **AND** zombies!"
Excellent. As somebody that wants to launch media, but not necessarily begin with a game, this helps with the idea of the 'down the line' situation.
Very helpful most of the points are known to me but they way he is taking time to explain why those slected ones are importaint adds special meaning im somewhat of a game designer and this brings bit of a new light into my insight of development
9:12 As someone who works on PlanetSide 2 I love this part.
Wait... THE nick silva? Nani
Incredible and helpful talk. Thank you!
"How to prove to people you really know what you are talking about." This guy...his experience in the field showed hard, from the get go.
Complaint #1: Stop hiring movie writers to write your game's story. Those stories should be written by people who understand risk/reward mechanics. In other words, don't give the player the Sword of Infinite Power on level 1, just because you wanted to show off a cool cutscene and were afraid that noobs would get bored.
It’s like drama directors making action movies a decade and a half ago except they never got better
This isnt a bad idea
Depends on the movie writer, some movie writers have a great fundamental understanding of game design. Think Ben Wheatley or Trey Parker + Matt Stone.
Honestly no game should EVER consider monetization past initial sale until AFTER it is ready to ship and it should *NEVER* interfere with gameplay already established.
It's actually alarming how many AAA publishers ignore these red flags and throw money at bad video game ideas.
Wrong. He wants you to bring the fun and passion to the pitch meeting so he can be the one to rip it all out and replace it with microtransactions later. He's not saying "publishers aren't 1000% about mandatory hardware features, bad monetization practices, and unsustainable sales requirements." He's saying "Don't try to do my job for me, kid. Just give me a new IP to piss all over."
I mean, you know, unless his company is somehow different from all the EAs and Activisions and Warner Brotherses of the world. But since his talk is acting like we don't live in a world in which toxic publisher behavior is the norm, I'm guessing he's either in denial or at least incredibly insulated by the bubble culture of his corporation.
"Gasp! Blowback? In a pitch meeting!? Well, I say, sir! How uncouth! Harrumph!" He expects devs to turn a blind eye to publisher behavior because that's what devs who need money have always done in the past. But now the reality of his situation is starting to bleed through the bubble and taint everything. He wants his innocence back.
He can't have it.
You're both wrong. Nathan, you're assuming that if people try they'll make gold. Well the reality is most of what we, as humans, make is crap. People try to do their best and they fail. Warp is wrong because he thinks its the publisher pushing this crap on the playerbase, its not, its the developers. Developers want microtransactions! Look these guys would rather make one popular game that makes money and continues to make money due to microtransactions. They can continue to make content for that one game. Making new games all the time is hard on everybody. You have to get rid of staff, don't need artists after all the arts done as an example.
Actually you're all wrong. Publishers are like a big brother to am forthwith not obstructing within developer infrastructure to do not look more like
+Warp Zone
Hmm. He makes a lot of good points, but at the end of the day, its all about whether or not your game fits into a picture that he's already made up in his mind. I get that's part of the marketing, but why does everything have to be so niche?
The problem that I had with one of his points is ( how is you're game going to be original compared to everything else out there ). That's where it goes from being a business transaction to sound like you're auditioning for American Idol. What's wrong with a game if its not original? Does it work? Is it fun to play?
You're done!
Honestly, this guy would probably have a migraine working at Nintendo and evaluating their internal games. They're the same concept done over and over again, but they're games that are done well and every once in a while, a new game is release that really turns heads and moves the units. Most of thier flagship games are the same concept done over and over again, and people eat it up.
I'm not really a ' Nintendo guy ', but I'm beginning to respect them a little more in light of this kind of thing.
As an aside, I think that market research when it comes to video games is a really bad idea.
Market research in terms of people who poll gamers about what they 'want'. That never works. That would be like asking football fans what player they think that their team should get so that they can get to the Superbowl next year. Instead, video games should be approached by a 'talent' type system. Talent meaning that you go after the games that have a good track record of getting finished or that have a good core concept. Idk, maybe I'm way off base on this.
I didn't have a game pitch but I'm still hurt
I was coming in with kind of a contrarian mood because of the "confrontational, clickbaity" title, but dang, he seems like he has a genuine love for games, and I'm all about that 👍👍
That was really interesting to hear about how the relationships of developers and publishers start.
im a fledgling developer and i appreciate every word of this. these are the more important parts that can take a great game to the actual sales floor, and the part many developers aren't great at. we aren't all people people ya know.
I really love this talk. It motivates me every time I start a new project.
Haha, "don't be an asshole"... We can file that in the same place as the 'take a shower' category, under "things we shouldn't have to tell people but unfortunately we sometimes do".
Anybody riffing on this guy for saying "Don't pitch your monetization scheme", missed the point. Monetization is usually the job of the publisher, not the game designer. There are numerous anecdotes from game designers about how they begrudgingly added micro-transactions in their games by request of the publisher, especially for single player games. You're job when pitching a game is giving the publisher something that consumers want, not what they want, because the publisher wants the consumer's money.
Many of these tips are good, general advice for just about any job interview, first impression, etc.
“I know you’re going to be able to execute on the character opening doors”
Yeah... many games would beg to differ on that 😜
I've actually almost never seen a game where a character, 1st person or otherwise, has ever extended their hand, gripped the doorknob, twisted it, pulled it open, and went through, and then closed it behind them.
I mean.. can anyone even think of a game where this exists without telekinesis, or cutscenes, or just leaving it out entirely? I mean, even World of Warcraft has basically zero doors in it.
@@StarPichu12 Why would anyone wast months of work and thousands of man hours to make completely pointless background scenery that people will likely never notice anyway.
@@StarPichu12 Well, you don't care about doors, I don't care about lighting effects or background graphics.
@@StarPichu12 Well the things I mentioned and the ridiculous amount of backstory exposition is all needless fluff to waste my time too.
None of which matters in the slightest to the game 90% of the time.
@@chaosmastermind Dude. It's not like it's a one or the other decision. Door animations are handled by programmers and animators, whereas backgrounds and environmental storytelling are handled by writers and artists. The difference here is, there is almost never enough of a payoff to have animators and programmers design a door animation that complicated, especially since there are almost always more important things to be doing. Most people don't even like those animations since they slow down the experience and waste the player's time. Writers and artists often have very little to do in those times of development, and so world-building and atmosphere is what they focus on. The door animation is a controversial decision and the people who would need to make it always have more important things to worry about except for horror games, but backgrounds and atmosphere are almost never an issue, rarely take up resources, and are almost unanimously appreciated across the gaming community.
At some point you have to accept that just because you don't care about backgrounds and essential world building, that doesn't mean that they are wasted effort and it doesn't mean the majority of gamers agree. Plus, the artists and writers are the only ones needed to work on them, and they need something to do. There are only a few situations where high quality immersive backgrounds heavily affect development. Ori is an example of this. Your uncommon opinion with no research or understanding about game development resource management doesn't reflect the industry and it doesn't mean you're right. If these backgrounds were made at a sacrifice of gameplay, then I could see your point, but they don't so your claim is meaningless.
Terrific presentation. Show respect to the guy for offering real, tangible tips that can be used to improve pitches. I'm involved in other, non-game creative endeavours and so many of the "creative" types won't listen to useful advice to make their output better.
Love this guy. He gave us great insight on our game years back. And #7 describes one of my game's problems. Very insightful.
Imagine being one of the people that pitched to this guy and watching this only to realize he's talking about something you did in your pitch 😂
This video could also be titled "30 Reasons to Not Fund a Kickstarter"
So much valuable information here, thanks! If it's obvious to you, it means you're meticulous about your game design and thoroughly think about the different aspects.
Very solid talk, interesting the whole way. I wasn't sure if this video was for me (not planning on getting a publisher), but I am glad I watched it.
Interesting talk! I guess my takeaway is confirmation of what I had already gathered: if you feel you need to "pitch" your game to a 3rd party to pay for developing it, you are very likely attempting to punch so far above your weight class that you are undermining your chance to succeed.
You can tell this man has been through some crazy stuff in this industry. Props to him though, he's spot on.
Ohhhh. I thought it was going to be about sound pitch. I was like how are you gonna have 30 complaints about sound pitch?!
This is amazing and insightful. I love this talk. And you can just tell, this poor guy has sat through 1000 crappy pitches from kids who just learned to create a game off a Unity template.
"Let the hate begin"? If anybody has a game to pitch to a company and find hate towards this list of help then that person has no place pitching anything in the first place.
This should be the most useful list video any aspiring game creator could ever watch.
It refer to his hate towards bad pitch ...
Same for me, at first glance it sounded bad, but consider this, this guy hears hundreds or thousands of pitches, he's doing you a favor being as honest and as blunt as people who listen to pitches likely are.
I expected at least somewhat of a rant but just having this on in the background I find myself completely agreeing with him.
I haven't started the talk yet really, but I looked up this guy and already hate him a bit because he's only worked on games that tow the line of perfect mediocrity. As far as I'm concerned, going into this, he has MUCH more credit as a business man than a game designer, and I wouldn't let him near a game I thought had a chance at being good. I expect, contrary to my opinion of his credentials, that everything he lists will be sound and well-considered advice, but I also expect it will be relatively basic and risk-averse.
He didn't give game design advice, but advice on how to get your pitch accepted by a Publisher. As a corporate developer turned Indie, he actually has experience both sides of that line.
Also, you're being pretty harsh about his credits. The Rainbow Six franchise wasn't really mediocre.
What a practical talk.
Thank you for sharing.
This is so interesting and has so many great points that can apply to more than just games. I really enjoy that the part where he mentions rainbow 6 @36:05 - wanting an fps that didn't require twitch reflexes but patience. I remember playing one of the early rainbow six games on console - renting it after seeing a trailer - and then me and friend unhappy with how difficult and different it was compared to other shooter currently out there.
What he said in the beginning, applies to sooooo many things in the world. Like when you turn in a resume, for you its like 20 or so you turn in, but the recruiter sees like 50 a day. You are also not the only one who thinks that just showing up and asking makes a good impression, it doesnt, there are almost daily people coming in.
You are not the only one making that (dad)joke.
You are not the only one hitting on that girl.
You are not the only one having the next great idea.
You are not even the only one with THAT idea.
People it is incredibly hard to be "different" and when you think you are different, there is a chance that someone else is just as "different" as you are.
I started making so many games I thought were totally unique, but because I was by myself, it took a looong time and looked crappy. When I was done it looked like a rip off of a similar game. They didnt copy me, I didnt copy them, they just had the same idea, more manpower and experience.
I am programming now software solutions for multiple businesses, as an employee. And honestly, they all think they need that super indiviual software, and actually it all is kinda the same.
I mean we also create websites and many of them just look alike. But not because we tell them that they have to look like this, but because they want it like this. Like one pagers, where there is only a landingpage and that is the whole website. I think it is stupid because often you have to scroll like 30 seconds to get to the bottom. But they love it and think it is totally unique.
So yeah, dont expect to be the only one with an idea or a pitch. But try to be THE best of all those pitches/applications/jokes/flirts etc.