The Sith code emphasizes the use of emotion to fuel one's power. I always thought it was a bit one-dimensional for Sith to utilize only anger and hate as a tool to gain power. I would love to see more variance in the Sity by embracing emotions such as lust, jealousy, greed, ambition, etc.
TBF we DO see Ambition and Jealousy. It's a Core Philosophy of the Rule of 2. Even within the Sith Empire it was set up to have both Jealousy AND Ambition, which was the cause of the Brotherhood of Darkness/Sith. However things like Greed and Lust make for some interesting ideas, but seem more Dark Jedi focused.
The idea of a Light Sith actually make sense when viewing them from the the eyes of a Je'daii(who if I recall correctly were balance in the force thus neither Light or Dark) instead of a Jedi or a Sith(who stray too far into the Light and Dark sides of the Force to the point where the other side was consider harmful and/or evil to them). A light Sith can be seen as a group that is a little confused by somehow managed to stumble upon the very starting point of balance that the Je'daii were suppose to be. They know that sticking to one side of the force alone is wrong but have not fully broken away from the the idea of the Sith. It might have been a very small step probably if one scale of 1 to 10 with the Jedi and Sith being 1 and the Je'daii being 10. The Light Sith would have been a 3 where they would be a little confused but at least they got the spirit of the Je'daii more then Jedi or Sith do
Sith Inquisitor LS (Darth Imperious) pretty much did what was best for the empire in every ls choice doesn't always stop them from launching lightning out of boredom or making occasional DS choices but it does keep them from being a Saturday morning cartoon villain.
Here's what I don't understand: If we can have Dark Jedi, why not Light Sith? Not to mention it would actually be a SUPERIOR Alternative to the Weakening & Dilution of the Sith Empire during the Brotherhood of Darkness Era (Early Darth Bane). It would create Stability, but WITHOUT sacrificing their Ideals OR Power.
The sides of the force are not simpel tools. If you drink of the darkness it will poison you, change you, your goals will no longer be the same or maybe you will try to reach them at any price and that will be your downfall. You are now a slave to the darkness.
@@perjohanaxell9862 Then explain to me how Mace Windu, Luke Skywalker and many others like Cal Kestis have tapped into the dark side but not poisoned and corrupted as you say. The dark side is only good on those who give in. If you fight it, you can harness its power while keeping your affiliation to the light side.
@@Justchillingitseems Mace Windu: created & mastered an extremely rare force ability (Vaapad) which allowed him to channel the dark side power of others, NOT his own, & use it against them. Despite the fact that it wasn't even his own inner darkness, the only two Jedi he taught Vaapad ultimately became corrupted & he vowed never to teach it again. Cal Kestis: fate is still up in the air, as we don't know how his life ultimately pans out. As such: bad example. Luke Skywalker in canon: nearly murders his own nephew in his sleep, has his entire Order massacred, then spends the rest of his life in seclusion. Luke Skywalker in Legends: actually did fall to the dark side for a short time as an apprentice under Palpatine. Was only saved because of his sister. Perjohanaxell9862 is absolutely right about the innately corruptive properties of the dark side. Much to learn, you still have.
In the old republic game, there is a couple dialogue among characters of you are a Sith that is balanced or light in the force. One of the dialogue options is that a Sith is able to follow their own path. A lot of the Sith beliefs is founded on freedom not restricting oneself. Expressing oneself fully. There’s also dialogue with the Inquisitor and his companion Ashara regarding that there are many types of Siths. Which I found interesting.
I have always thought the portion of the Sith Code: "Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me." meant something similar to your thought. If the Force is going to free me, then it isn't my slave or servant, it becomes my savior, allowing me to walk my path. I had a martial arts instructor say that in a fight/combat/self-defense situation, you want controlled passion/emotions: A little Fear is good because it gives you a wariness, too much Fear freezes you into indecision. A little bit of Anger gives you Strength while too much Anger makes you lose control of both your mental and physical balance.
I think it's possible that the Light Sith could have ended up with something similar to Darth Traya's Philosphy of the rejection of the Light AND Dark Side teachings. Instead becoming more of a Grey Force User that balances the two between each other. At the very least, it certainly makes sense, since we know the Darth Side creates it's own Chains & Limits. Doubly so with how it can Consume the Vitality of it's Users. Darth Nihilus is the ULTIMATE example of this, completely ENSLAVED by his Power and the Dark Side. ALSO: They were just too ahead of their time. They were the SOLUTION to the Sith Empire's problems during the Brotherhood of The Sith. Which were greatly weakened and diluted in power. Yet this would have allowed them great Strength, WITHOUT sacrificing the Empire's Stability & Existence. An alternative to the Rule of 2. Hell maybe they would have gone on to become like the Jed'ai of old. It would have been VERY interesting to see different Philosophies of the Light Sith compete.
Speaking as an SWTOR player, Light Sith--both Warrior and Inquisitor--is so much more fun than the typical DS Sith. It gives you lots of moments where you can troll Jedi due to being contrary to their expectations. I don't RP my LS Sith as just being "Jedi with extra steps and fewer rules". LS Sith like Darth Imperius would be just as bored with the serenity of the Jedi as the DS Sith. I RP LS Sith as still believing in the Sith Code, since it doesn't actually mention the Dark Side at all. Once you understand that the Sith line "Peace is a lie" is derived from one of Rajiviri's Principles (all life is conflict), then you can see how Sith like Darth Imperius can exist. Peace is a lie, but what is peace? If you define "peace" as "the absence of conflict", then it most definitely is a lie. Life without conflict leads to complacency, stagnation, corruption, and apathy. My LS Sith believe that Dark Side Sith have become slaves to their basest impulses and thus are not actually "free" as the Sith Code defines it. True freedom includes the ability to voluntarily exercise restraint and place some cause or organization above yourself; in this case, they are out to reform the Empire into something a bit more rational.
So light-side Sith seek personal power & freedom without going down the rabbit hole of fear, hatred & other "negative" emotions. I guess this means there might have been dark-side Jedi who sought selflessness, harmony, & enlightenment without going down the rabbit hole of mercy, forgiveness or other "positive" emotions.
A Dark Side Jedi would look a lot like Thanos. The Jedi are Stoic so they belive in humility, service and balance. Obviously that works well with the Light Side but if a Jedi Stoic decided balance required more death and chaos (say the death of half the universe) then their Jedi phylosophy of humility and sacrifice for the greater good would require them to embrace the Dark Side.
@@maxstirner4197 Windu was neither a light-side Sith or a dark-side Jedi. His shtick was that he could be extremely aggressive without giving in to outright anger & rage & harnessing the dark side of the force as a result.
Fun Fact, if you use a Character boost on a Fresh Sith Inquisitor in SWTOR, they are referred to as Darth Imperious, implying that for Sith Inquisitors them being Light Side might be Canon.
@@hackman669 They weren't more powerful than Palpatine at the Height of his Power. That's Pre OR Post Disney. Palpatine had a destructive power that could compete with Darth Nihilus in Power, but with WITHOUT being Controlled and Consumed by his power. Even if you're going with Disney Level, the power that he puts out with his Force Lightning is INSANE and FAR more powerful than almost any other Sith Lord. I think the Light Sith were TOO ADVANCED for their time. They were a Solution to the Brotherhood of Darkness problem of the Dilution of Power, but WITHOUT the destruction of the Sith Empire like with Darth Bane. An if we can have Dark Jedi, why not Light Sith? I mean sure, maybe it never would have worked, or maybe they would have found balance like the Jed'ai, but we'll never know. An that's a DAMN shame, because even if it failed, it would have been VERY interesting! MUCH more interesting than the Brotherhood of Jedi!
I dunno if im missing something but it makes sense to me they'd call themselves sith. They are still after power. They just use the light to get it. Jedi on the otherhand also use the light but they arent after power. Different goals. They'd be like anti villains i guess. Do good things that benefit themselves. I dunno. If im wrong. Correct me
I believe that the most powerful sith lord to ever exist proves that the light sith where on to something. After all Tenebrae and revan both kinda surprised the full orders of the sith and jadi via mastery of both sides of the force and Tenebrae honestly came the closest to actually acomplishing the goals of the sith order.
To me, they sound just like the Grey Jedi but just like how Grey Jedi still leaned a bit more to the light side and fought for peace and had similar goals to the Jedi but used different methods to achieve those goals, these Grey Sith(mainly the first one but still)used both the Light and the Dark side but Favoured the dark side more and used more positive(Light side)emotions to fuel their power! and just like there counterparts had similar goals to the Sith but just used different methods to achieve them!
I think the main purpose for a Light-side sith would be Light-side force users with a more selfish focus. Sith focus on the self and emotions, meanwhile Jedi focus on the force and try to suppress their emotions to be tools for the force. Thus, Light-side Sith would still seek to empower themselves and their own goals, but they'd be more open to utilizing their emotions in their methods. They would seek the betterment of others because it's what they want to do, not because of the will of the force, and their relationship with the force would more often be that of a common goal rather than the Jedi's view of being a tool for the force. The main aspect I can see of Light-side Sith is the usage of all emotions to fuel their power. Even love and attachment to others, something normally both the Jedi and Sith reject, could easily be taken by Light-side Sith as a method to empower oneself. Taking up the protection of others could also become a form of Pride to fuel their emotions. A saying I've used before is fitting of a Light-side Sith; The strong have the power to kill, but the stronger have the power to save. It takes more strength to subdue than it takes to kill. To a Light-side Sith, saving others would be a way of showing even greater strength.
Well, it sounds like the Light Sith believed that the Light Side was more powerful then the Dark Side, so since they used the light to achieve power I'd say it is kind of possible to have Sith like that.
I think the issue is that for one to truly commit to the light side, they'll end up letting go of their desire for power. It's ironic cause in a way, they can achieved everything they wanted, but would no longer desire it once they had it.
@@TheProswagonist Yeah, that is a good point, but since they already had the desire for power they may not have lost it getting into the Light. It's hard to say really.
Well, according to some lore that you have spoken of, I do recall you mention that Revan himself embraced attachment similar to the Light Side Sith you speak of here.
The idea of the Jedi not having attachments or love is a foreign concept to Star Wars lore until it suddenly popped up in The Clone Wars. Before then, there had been plenty of canon Jedi with family and kids.
I like the idea of achieving power in the light side outside of the Jedi order. All the restrictions of the Jedi would stop one from achieving this it would be dangerous too their teachings.
Some of the Light Sith, especially after the rise of the Eternal Alliance, were loyal to the Galactic Republic rather than the Sith Empire. Among them, Kel'eth Ur’s teachings were appreciated, but recognized as going too far in the other direction by rejecting Passion. Many Light Sith chose to embrace rather good passions and emotions, and above all-love, and attachment. The attachments for some being understood as giving relationships and not about taking or jealousy, though loyal and faithful. Passion is the path to power… to cut oneself off entirely from passion is to contradict the Sith Code, and many of the Light Sith still fully embraced it, though understanding it differently than the Dark Side Sith. But the Light Sith discovered a way to experience attachment without clinging in a way which leads to the Dark Side and so being fully individual and yet connected as they believed the Force intended for living sentients, exercising a good will in the galaxy. Light Sith philosophy at points seems more compatible with Christianity in our world, whereas Jedi philosophy seems more in like with Buddhism… as Christianity does not reject rightly-ordered attachments and passions. The key to power and peace is the integration of all of one’s emotions in a way that is rightly-ordered towards the good, exteriorly and interiorly. The Light Sith found Jedi repression of emotions to be a dangerous path to the Dark Side, and some of their worst opponents were in fact former-Jedi.
The only thing that contradicts the light side sith is that they were searching for power. While none of the light side organisations search for power. I think a light side sith that would eventually understand the light side would eventually become someone from a light side organisation. We know that understanding and becoming one with the force is one of the ways to become immensely powerful in the force. Understanding the force and using it as a vessel. We know by nature the Force has a light side and a neutral side. The dark side on the other hand, is a direct manifestation of personal feelings. The only way to access the dark side is to be seduced or use negative emotions. While the light side is a natural state of the force.
The light sis are like dark Jedi. Good moreclothes link to being balanced like we're supposed to be but yet the farthest from it. It's something I could give or take but it would be interesting to introduce them to Cannon
I would like the light sith order 1. Keep the rule of two 2. Focus of self gain , does not have to be power. Example knowledge. use the force for self improvement and not improvement of others if there is nothing to gain. 3. Have them as exploreors
True enough, the most interesting though are those who do not follow the code directly. Combining elements of both light and dark to achieve true balance.😄
Kaleth Ur, Vectivus, and even The Ronin are my favourite examples of light side Sith. They've taught that the Sith don't always have to live off power, corruption, and rage. They've shown that to be a light side Sith is to seek out personal perfection and to strive to be better than the previous moment. A dark side Sith is more easily corrupted because of his attainments. The more he has, the greater his fall. A light side Sith can possibly balance better and act from a position of clarity and wisdom. Casting aside fear, anger, and pain...but keeping detirmination and ambition but in moderation can act as a powerful catalyist.
If memory serves correctly (or if you just watch the video conversation) in SWTOR Dark Jaesa Willsaam hunts for light leaning Sith. I can’t help but wonder if this group was the group that she first slaughtered.
I think the key here is the Sith code calls of the infusion of emotion where Jedi do not, But the light side Sith want to focus on USING Positive emotion rather than ignoring ALL emotion the way jedi proclaim.
A Light Sith would indeed be a true terror. They would be completely free of their emotions, able to act cooly, calmly, and rationally under all circumstances. And like a switch flip into full on Dark Side rage mode before their opponent can even draw their weapon. But at the same time, any mental attacks directed back at them would be blocked by that Light Side mental clarity. Using Light and Dark powers with pinpoint accuracy when and where they're needed... It's like in Skyrim if you're like "Fuck it, I'm getting ALL the perks," and you grind to level 252 just so you don't have to pick and choose.
This is awesome. Consider this. The very 1st Sith were FALLEN JEDI. They grew within the Jedi Order. In this way the darkside is always a threat to the Jedi. Even when they've destroyed the Sith. This story is but the opposite. The light taking root from within the Dark. Occurring in the same fashion. Curious members questioning the status quo and desiring to know the unknown. They come to realize what Master Yoda stated to Luke. The Darkside is just quicker but ultimate power comes from the light.
It seems reasonable to me that Sith can ‘fall’ to the light side just like the Jedi can ‘fall’ to the dark side. Darth Vader did both didn’t he? Fits right into the SW Ying-Yang(ish) dynamic.
The story of the Light Sith plays out slightly different because of its ties to the Sith Warrior character story in the Star Wars The Old Republic mmo. And Darth Imperious is kinda sorta the "non canon" version of the Sith Inquisitor Story player character who has a different title based on alignment. Nox (Dark), Imperious (Light), and Oculus (Neutral), with Nox being technically the "canon" outcome.
I think this was as close as a Sith could come to the concept of Grey. So many of the What Ifs always seem to end up with the Jedi bringing more feeling into their order. Could this not be the opposite?
Wow!!! I was so sure I made up the idea of being a 'Light Sith'. Lol. I figured a light Sith would be way way waaaayyyy more powerful then a dark sider, since the dark side represents death, chaos, and entropy. Whereas the light side represents life affirming aspects of the force, meaning, there would have to be a limit to how far you could grow before the very nature of the dark side energies would begin to have extremely deleterious effects upon living matter. I've called myself a light sith for years, looking down my nose at those foolish Jedi, so fearful of emotions like Love, Joy, and ecstasy. Lol! I'm eager to hear what the video has to reveal.
I have found a a combat medic Thant it is difficult to remove all emotion from life. If you focus on negative emotions it will break you. You need to balance the harsh negative with good emotions. If you want to truly be the best you can be you must use all you have to help you do so. I would love to see playable stats for a group that escaped the purge for an Edge of the Empire campaign.
I think this is a really good point to make. While playing light-side Sith and stuff is fun within the context of SWTOR and such, it ultimately doesn't make sense long-term. to me. Star Wars is meant to be a bit of an exaggerated opera of ideals. Dark Side IS corrupting. It is not a "but real life is complicated" thing, as Star Wars is very much built on the idea of Light Side being good and Dark Side being evil/destructive. "Light-side Sith" just feels like a "want your cake and eat it too" kind of thing. The only way a Light-side Sith can make sense, to me, is if that Sith is on his way out. Like he has changed internally and come to the Light, and is on his way out of the dark side dogma. Maybe they operate under the Sith name for a time, to try and be clever, but ultimately you cannot remain a Sith once that change occurs. I actually like how SWTOR did this bit, for the SIth Warrior specifically. You are "Sith" in terms of belonging to the group starting out. But you can choose to embrace the light and (spoilers): - you can choose to try and change things/sabotage the darker workings of the Sith Empire. So it can make sense, because you are actively opposing the current Sith value system. It cannot work if you both embrace the SIth ways, AND the light side. I think you can be a light-side Force User who is not a Jedi. But not a Sith. You would just have to fall outside of the two dogmas altogether.
Sounds like if they met and joined forces with Dark Jedi, they could have perfected true balance in the force. But that's my opinion, so enjoy. Hope to hear some others and their own thoughts on this.
Wonder if light side Sith would become friends with Jedi from the post F🤫allen Order era! Imagine a Jedi on the run from the Empire and he meets and Light Sith. Wonder if they would share ideals and join forces to help the Rebellion. Or simply part and go their own ways.
Balance in the Force does not mean half light and half dark side. It is more like the concept of Asian medicine balance, where the dark side is disease. The body is in balance when there is no disease and everything is working properly. The dark side is not half of the Force. It is a second similar, but different thing (being?) that developed as a corruption of the Force. Not like the other side of a coin, but instead like a totally different coin. Using the dark side restricts the ability to use the Force sort like chromic use of drugs makes the body dependant sometimes on needing those drugs to feel some things, as the body stops producing various chemicals or hormones itself.
I think the approach to the Light Sith in this video is too narrow - potentially, they could end up balanced, like the Je'daii, or closer to Revan, who was predominantly a Jedi who used his emotions.
Well keep in mind it was in it's Infancy. It never had the chance to really EXPLORE what that could mean or grow into. Maybe they would have been the Sith equivalent of Mace Windu. Maybe they would have been like Darth Traya, balancing the Philosophies of Jedi AND Sith. Maybe they would have been like the White Latern Kyler Rayner in DC, using the COMPLETE Emotional Spectrum, rather than relying upon ONLY specific emotions to fuel their Power.
It is quite interesting to think about and something worth exploring. Is it not logical that since some of the strongest Jedi to ever exist, Mace Windu, Luke and Anakin Skywalker, delved into the Dark Side and came out with balance, is It not logical that the same thing could be achieved by a Sith looking to the Light and also finding balance? I freely admit that Anakin and Luke had the Chosen One thing as well, but Mace Windu is a perfect example. I think such a character could make a fantastic story.
True power is somewhere between pain and serenity I believe if you can learn to use both light and dark side techniques in harmony then you’d reach your true power/potential
I've heard a phrase I'm only able to paraphrase; "He who is capable of immense love, is equally capable of immense hate". Basically, to grow your capacity in one is to increase your capacity in the other. It seems to me that "balance" just means neutrality. True neutrality seems like zero on the Cartesian coordinate graph, while going in any direction would be plus or minus. I still have a hard time seeing how that translates into power. Maybe potential power is all balance can be a measure of. I could be thinking about this in terms that can't truly be summed up with mathematical concepts.
@@princedeucidius To use your mathematical representation, balance is achieved not when at 0 but when you match your 5 on one side with a 5 on the other. You do not need to be a single point. They don't negate each other like positive and negative numbers do. That phrase does not describe force alignment in Star Wars. The Sith eschew love as a weakness. They nurture their capacity to hate, and kill their capacity to love. The Jedi likewise suppress their fear, anger and hate to seek detachment.
@@SonofKalas22 Yeah I get what you're saying. Using my analogy of Cartesian coordinates would require using the x, y rather than the negative/positive x axis. That's the way you would have to show that the increase in one aspect increases at least the capacity of the other. Balance would appear graphically as a line between the x,y axis at a 45degree angle. That's why the way I was imagining the balance between light and dark made no damned sense. Lol! Clarity appreciated.
A faction that proclaims loyalty to an authority but whose ideology is incompatible with that authority isn't unheard of. In fact I'd argue it's pretty common. You hear about people who disagree with a politician on everything but still vote for them purely because of what party they're associated with. Second, becoming a Jedi only works if you agree with the Order, which we know is not infallible. Therefore Light Sith could be seen as simply a different faction of force users.
The whole point of the sith is that they are not bound by rules, so a light sided sith is not outlandish, especially if you consider all forms of passion to be a path to power. Passion includes love after all.
Light side of Sith teaching about fear reminds me original Jedi teaching (just can't remember name, jen jedi or something) There is no ignorance, there's wisdom There is no fear, there's power! Fear seems to be biggest weaknesses of both Sith and Jedi and reason, why they abandoned their original ways. Dark Jedi did fall into fear in wars and let Dark side control them in their searching for power and become slave of it. Jedi, seeing what could happen, started to fear dark side and abandoned it as whole, ignoring danger of blindly following light. Dark Siths probably realized part of the original teaching be coincidence and started using light side while having part of philosophy of original Jedi, or something similar. They didn't try to achieve balance of two sides, but their teaching probably least to it or is suitable for it at least.
Do y’all know who wrote these who created and added to the Star Wars universe. I’m really asking I’ve been somewhat curious about it and not just for Star Wars but for all these stories that deal with the sci-fi and fantasy genres. 🤘😊🖤
I think there’s a way to reconcile the oddness of a light-oriented Sith. The Dark side revolves around selfish desire and intense emotion. The Light focuses on surrendering of one’s will and reining in desires and passions. The Sith philosophy is centered on gaining power. So it is theoretically possible for a Sith to “surrender” his or her will to the Force in the hopes that doing so will lead to greater power in the Force. The Will of the Force is not explained in great detail in terms of its alignment. In fact, it may not be either Light or Dark. It seems to desire that certain key events in the Galaxy’s timeline occur, and play out I n a specific way. So one may come to the conclusion that the Will of the Force can barter power for fulfillment of its desires. Whether the Light Side Sith would be correct in this reasoning, though… well, we may never know.
It was stated that the Jedi ignore many things and are often locked in their thinking due to their ideology, they do not only ignore the dark side, they ignore emotions, attachment, and many things that prevent their own growth, Sith however embrace everything passion to grow and explore, to learn new things, to expand already known knowledge, they may call themselves the Light Sith, but there is no Sith that does not know the dark side, they merely focused on the positive emotions, love, mercy, compassion, loyalty, friendship, kindness, they are Sith because unlike the Jedi they refuse to say there is no emotion, there is no chaos, there is no ignorance, there is no death, they can't accept that. So instead they focused on their positive feelings, of helping each other, instead of looking for ways to do each other in, life by its very nature is chaotic, there can be no wisdom without realizing that a person doesn't know everything, and thus accept their own ignorance, and so many of their fellow sith died either from needless conflict with each other, or murdered by Jedi to deny that Death actually exists. In essence a light Sith would use his own emotions to grow and would prefer to use a compassionate, peaceful and merciful action, but if conflict is needed, they will fight to defend themselves and those around him. After all the Jedi who supposed to only follow the light, have committed acts of genocide, but we don't call this mass murderers having fallen to the dark side do we? A single Jedi even went as far as to destroy an entire planet. Malachor V,
In my mind, the only way to achieve true power is to find balance. Allow yourself to form attachments as those you love can save you from death as you can save them. However, don't allow those attachments to blind you from what need be done. Accept that the dark is as much a part of the fore as is the light, but don't allow it to consume you as it is so easily corrosive. Fear is as much an inevitability as death, so don't try to avoid fear or treat it like it doesn't exist, but face it or use it to your advantage. All things in life exist in a state of balance. Nothing can exist without an opposite to counter it. Light and dark. Good and evil. Life and death. Both the Jedi and the Sith were fools in believing in only one side while trying to destroy the other. Every time ends in disaster.
I agree,this is pretty strange. Very strange. Light Sith. Makes no sense. Sith use passion,hatred,power,jealousy. They want power and dominance. You are not harsh. You are completely right. May the Force be with you too. Have a great day
The Sith code is not incompatible with the light side of the force. Love (romantic, familial, or fraternal) is a source of passion and is oriented towards the light. It was Luke’s love of his father, and Anakin’s love of his son, which allowed them to overcome the Emperor. Can you imagine a Sith empowered by the ideal “no greater love hath a man than this: that he lay down his life for his fellow man.”? This would not be a Jedi. Jedi seek peace and tranquility through rejecting attachment. Light side Sith would find power through his love for others. We even see this in SWTOR: Darth Marr at his end. He was motivated by love for his people, and that gave him the courage to stand against his former emperor.
Nah! The Jedi fear certain abilities which would not only make them equal to, and even more powerful than the dark Sith. Like, how the hell does Ploo Koon discover force lightning, and only accidently? Every Dark sith seems to have the dark side version of that. How does Darth Nihilus have the force drain ability but no Jedi can do mass healing? There would have to be abilities that the dark siders simply can't employ as the power in the force would simply kill you or burn you out like Palpatine/Sidius, but which the light side correlation would be accessible by strengthening one's abilities and opening yourself to a level of emotions that could threaten to sweep you away..
I mean, it makes sense that back when the Sith were just as numerous as the Jedi, you'd occasionally have some who realized the dark side is kind of bullshit but still didn't want to become Jedi. Just like there have been fallen Jedi throughout the order's history who *didn't* become Sith. There are also a variety of other Force-based groups that are light side aligned but decidedly aren't Jedi, like the Fallanassi and the Baran Do Sages. In the long run, it would've been pretty silly for "Light Sith" to maintain the pretense of still being Sith just out of tradition when they're rejecting everything the Sith stand for. But seeing as their cult didn't last long enough to *have* a "long run" before the Sith massacred them, that doesn't really matter. Also, the reason that Darth Gravid went insane is that he tried to use the light and dark simultaneously, which is impossible.
I would think that just like the dark sith purge ALL light from themselves to take on more power or 'grow in the dark side, the light sith would have to purge ALL dark impulses and emotions to grow in power in the light.
This...actually works in Viciate's Sith Empire, because being Sith was simply being part of his empire. He had already chosen to brainwash Force users to focus on extreme loyalty rather than personal power and advancement, so I can see how a group of "Light Sith" could exist under those circumstances.
The Light's advantages are stability and consistency. It may not achieve the same level of strength as the Dark, but it is not so physically and emotionally damaging. The Dark is like a bomb. It's incredibly powerful and destructive, but the bomb destroys itself producing that power. Even the traditions of the Sith reflect this. When a Sith lord becomes powerful he must kill the other and take a new apprentice. They intentionally destroy their most powerful and most wise members. And train future Sith that come after to continue this cycle of self destruction.
Gravid wasn't really a light Sith. He drew upon the dark and light, it drove him insane. The light Sith were lightsiders who were loyal to their Empire, but not the teachings of the order.
Is there an order, group, whatever that follows both? Like you use the light and dark side without trying like a sith to be the most powerful and control everything or like a jedi that tries to keep peace and just uses the force for that? I always thought it was kinda dumb for the jedi to teach about the force, but only half of it was allowed to be learned or used and dumb that if you use the dark side, you automaticly strife to kill every competition and amass as much power as possible.
Like the jedi teachings say you cant have passion, form attachements and so on, but everybody knows if you dont have those things in life, its not really a worthwhile life. But then you fall to the dark side since you have those things and become a powerhungry dictator.. how is there nothing in betwteen?
@@stepanovicboro I think you are hitting on the failings of both organizations. The Sith end up being limited in what they can obtain and losing themselves in their pursuit of power (whether they realize this or not) through their ideology. The Jedi on the other hand had a healthy balance in their ideology at point of their history (I believe there are a few storied of Jedi with families and maybe even a point in time where caring and developing relationships was encouraged, though attachment is still not encouraged) but they end up falling because they unknowingly gave into the dark side by trying to avoid it. So much of the Republic era Jedi teaching is about avoiding falling to the dark side (a thing they fear whether they are admitting it or not) so they recruit younger and younger (essentially forcing children into their organization), requiring no attachments (leading to psychopaths like Ki-Adi-Mundi), and restricting the actions of its members to prevent them from learning things that may cause them to turn (and isn't it a sith ideology to Dominate and control). Yoda is the one who speaks about fear leading to the dark side, Yoda also talks about how they have been entrapped by the Sith which is mostly in reference to the way they have been forced to fight, but also may be about the way they have changed over the years due to the threat of the dark side. The intention of the original story seem to be that the Jedi are the middle ground of balance but have fully and completely lost their way (a good example of a Jedi who is very balanced is Obi-wan. He forms attachments, learns things he probably shouldn't, and backed Anakin joining the order even if he didn't fully understand at the time. He knowingly gives away his position on missions where his attachment might lead him to falter, but also manages to keep his head on straight while on missions where he has personal attachments. That all said, the is the Bendu who claims to be only affiliated with "The Force" in the more modern canon suggesting that the idea the the monk like method of giving yourself to the intentions of the force might not be the only path to balance like it used to be
No, no, it makes sense. They're like Dark Jedi, in that they still believe in what they've always believed in, just seeking a more effective way to pursue it. These Sith pursued power and victory, and came to realize that cooperation, restraint, and the ability to build a strong, stable society was the best way to reach their goals. They're right, but that's not what their existing civilization of blood-mad warlords wanted to hear. They didn't want to join the Jedi instead because the people they wanted to guide and protect were the Sith Empire. Just like how Jedi might fall to the Dark Side without wanting to destroy the Republic.
Is the only reason they’re not called dark/grey Jedi bc the light sith are older? If not, what would the difference be between them? In my mind if they sat at the same table they would have similar philosophies despite different starting points
The darkness can not thrive without some light, much like the light can not thrive without some darkness. This is where the Sith are blind to the benefits of having just a bit light.
I find this to be very interesting I know the dark and the light are connected. You can’t have one without the other. It’s kinda reminds me of Yin and yang from Chinese philosophy. After all Star Wars is inspired from the Japanese culture. 🤔🤔
a jedi who works for the empire, a sith who works for the republic. the ideals of an individual does not mean that those ideals should govern. my ideals would make an unfunctional society, yet i still maintain them while living in a society of differing ideals. this is not the means justify the end this is about the path to those end, if a sith used their power to better the republic does this mean they are no longer sith, they may still follow the same code as other sith but work for a different government. how i see it is not who governs the individual, but the code, lifestyle & ideals that the individual holds as being what makes the jedi or sith. Also a Q: what if a force user never aligns with the jedi or sith but lives a life separate from both orders what is this individual known as if anything?
Light sith make sense if you think about it is not domination over one's passions and vices a form of power? Could that power not be wielded? I don't think a light sith is so contradictory due to my own way of life. I constantly tend to struggle with a desire to manipulate and control others and instead choose to manipulate and control myself to a point i have some manner of control that is uncommon over my own impulses and a level of self awareness that while i aspire against tranquility and instead aspire to become like a storm externally turbulent while calm within. I wear darkness as a mantle while shining brightly within and the light sith would align with a similar method. To dominate all worlds one should first dominate themselves and the strength or power obtained from such complete power and dominance is nothing to mock nor see as any less powerful. I tend to see other martial artist as foolish given they silence emotions and quiet the mind instead of learning to live in tandem with their emotions and focusing those intense surges towards their ambitions i admire the myths of the berserkers far greater than the tranquil fighters in the world I instead learn to dwell in the storm of emotion and aspire to become a perfect storm and i suppose this understanding is why concepts such as light sith make a lot of sense to me.
A sith can do Light side. As Jedi avoid attachment. Sith embrace their passions. But passion is not only expressed through anger and hate. They can embrace such emotions as love and empathy. And have passion for good things. And get married, unlike Jedi.
I think Dark Jedi and Light Sith are two sides of the same coin. Dark Jedi would use fear of losing those closest to them and feed on that power to eliminate threats to the galaxy with prejudice, whereas Light Sith would calmly eliminate threats to their loved ones simply because its the best thing for them, but do so far more actively and violently than the Jedi typically would. We see one of the primary doctrines of the Jedi is that they must act in self defense, but on the other hand during the clone wars they can be cold, unfeeling machines capable of wiping out thousands within mere moments. They train to feel nothing at the loss of those around them. Luminara coldly accepted Bariss was to be buried alive, Ki-Adi Mundi let go of his family on his home planet, never offering aid. Windu had a bad habit of straight up executing people, and when Boba came after him for it he kinda just shrugs it off and basically goes "Yeah that makes sense, sorry kid but it happens." A Light Sith would be far more proactive in ventures, and would allow for attachments of love and compassion, enjoying company of others while it lasts and seeking to preserve that company while still being prepared to move on from it should anything happen. Those close to them would be deserving of protection, and anything that threatens them is simply a wall that must be felled, no matter how many people they have to mechanically slaughter. Anyone that oppose them would be less than battle droids, simply waiting to be cut down, but without feeling. Only peaceful acceptance that this is simply what must be done to preserve those around them, so that is what they will do. The peacefulness of the light side, without the passivity of the jedi
The light sith would look a lot like Batman. Philosophically the Sith follow Niche's Will to Power. They reject morality, emphasize individualism and individual power. Niche doesn't reject the Dark Side but I agree that the Light Side is a better fit. Many Dark Side techniques have Light Side variants but the Light Side has unique abilities like healing, puts less stain on the users body and let's the user maintain cold rationality in a fight. A light Sith would not be limited by Stoic humility. Like Batman they would be brutal and cunning and obsessively pursue personal power. But also like Batman they would ruthlessly preserve life and order. The Sith struggle with Empire because the nature of the Dark Side is chaos. The Stoic Jedi struggle with the contradiction of being humble servants but wielding immense power. The light sith totalitarian regime would last forever.
The Sith code emphasizes the use of emotion to fuel one's power. I always thought it was a bit one-dimensional for Sith to utilize only anger and hate as a tool to gain power. I would love to see more variance in the Sity by embracing emotions such as lust, jealousy, greed, ambition, etc.
Cool take!
TBF we DO see Ambition and Jealousy. It's a Core Philosophy of the Rule of 2. Even within the Sith Empire it was set up to have both Jealousy AND Ambition, which was the cause of the Brotherhood of Darkness/Sith.
However things like Greed and Lust make for some interesting ideas, but seem more Dark Jedi focused.
7 deadly sins.
They do. I'm not sure why you assume it is only anger or hate.
@@TheMorriganAenslandlust and greed is also found in sith teaching and so is lust
The idea of a Light Sith actually make sense when viewing them from the the eyes of a Je'daii(who if I recall correctly were balance in the force thus neither Light or Dark) instead of a Jedi or a Sith(who stray too far into the Light and Dark sides of the Force to the point where the other side was consider harmful and/or evil to them). A light Sith can be seen as a group that is a little confused by somehow managed to stumble upon the very starting point of balance that the Je'daii were suppose to be.
They know that sticking to one side of the force alone is wrong but have not fully broken away from the the idea of the Sith. It might have been a very small step probably if one scale of 1 to 10 with the Jedi and Sith being 1 and the Je'daii being 10. The Light Sith would have been a 3 where they would be a little confused but at least they got the spirit of the Je'daii more then Jedi or Sith do
Sith Inquisitor LS (Darth Imperious) pretty much did what was best for the empire in every ls choice doesn't always stop them from launching lightning out of boredom or making occasional DS choices but it does keep them from being a Saturday morning cartoon villain.
Here's what I don't understand: If we can have Dark Jedi, why not Light Sith? Not to mention it would actually be a SUPERIOR Alternative to the Weakening & Dilution of the Sith Empire during the Brotherhood of Darkness Era (Early Darth Bane). It would create Stability, but WITHOUT sacrificing their Ideals OR Power.
Being balanced in the Force does not mean "neither Light nor Dark". Nor does it mean amounts, it's not mixology at a bar.
Using the dark side and light side to achieve your goals is just rational. All tools are worthy if they achieve the goal.
Exactly my thoughts. That's why I believe the Grey Jedi are the most balanced and correct in their ways.
Well put
The sides of the force are not simpel tools. If you drink of the darkness it will poison you, change you, your goals will no longer be the same or maybe you will try to reach them at any price and that will be your downfall. You are now a slave to the darkness.
@@perjohanaxell9862 Then explain to me how Mace Windu, Luke Skywalker and many others like Cal Kestis have tapped into the dark side but not poisoned and corrupted as you say. The dark side is only good on those who give in. If you fight it, you can harness its power while keeping your affiliation to the light side.
@@Justchillingitseems Mace Windu: created & mastered an extremely rare force ability (Vaapad) which allowed him to channel the dark side power of others, NOT his own, & use it against them. Despite the fact that it wasn't even his own inner darkness, the only two Jedi he taught Vaapad ultimately became corrupted & he vowed never to teach it again.
Cal Kestis: fate is still up in the air, as we don't know how his life ultimately pans out. As such: bad example.
Luke Skywalker in canon: nearly murders his own nephew in his sleep, has his entire Order massacred, then spends the rest of his life in seclusion.
Luke Skywalker in Legends: actually did fall to the dark side for a short time as an apprentice under Palpatine. Was only saved because of his sister.
Perjohanaxell9862 is absolutely right about the innately corruptive properties of the dark side. Much to learn, you still have.
In the old republic game, there is a couple dialogue among characters of you are a Sith that is balanced or light in the force. One of the dialogue options is that a Sith is able to follow their own path. A lot of the Sith beliefs is founded on freedom not restricting oneself. Expressing oneself fully. There’s also dialogue with the Inquisitor and his companion Ashara regarding that there are many types of Siths. Which I found interesting.
I have always thought the portion of the Sith Code: "Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me." meant something similar to your thought. If the Force is going to free me, then it isn't my slave or servant, it becomes my savior, allowing me to walk my path. I had a martial arts instructor say that in a fight/combat/self-defense situation, you want controlled passion/emotions: A little Fear is good because it gives you a wariness, too much Fear freezes you into indecision. A little bit of Anger gives you Strength while too much Anger makes you lose control of both your mental and physical balance.
I think it's possible that the Light Sith could have ended up with something similar to Darth Traya's Philosphy of the rejection of the Light AND Dark Side teachings. Instead becoming more of a Grey Force User that balances the two between each other. At the very least, it certainly makes sense, since we know the Darth Side creates it's own Chains & Limits. Doubly so with how it can Consume the Vitality of it's Users. Darth Nihilus is the ULTIMATE example of this, completely ENSLAVED by his Power and the Dark Side.
ALSO: They were just too ahead of their time. They were the SOLUTION to the Sith Empire's problems during the Brotherhood of The Sith. Which were greatly weakened and diluted in power. Yet this would have allowed them great Strength, WITHOUT sacrificing the Empire's Stability & Existence. An alternative to the Rule of 2.
Hell maybe they would have gone on to become like the Jed'ai of old. It would have been VERY interesting to see different Philosophies of the Light Sith compete.
I think in a way it makes sense. In an accidental way, they may have been on a path to end up like the original Jedai. But thats just a theory
Speaking as an SWTOR player, Light Sith--both Warrior and Inquisitor--is so much more fun than the typical DS Sith. It gives you lots of moments where you can troll Jedi due to being contrary to their expectations. I don't RP my LS Sith as just being "Jedi with extra steps and fewer rules". LS Sith like Darth Imperius would be just as bored with the serenity of the Jedi as the DS Sith. I RP LS Sith as still believing in the Sith Code, since it doesn't actually mention the Dark Side at all. Once you understand that the Sith line "Peace is a lie" is derived from one of Rajiviri's Principles (all life is conflict), then you can see how Sith like Darth Imperius can exist. Peace is a lie, but what is peace? If you define "peace" as "the absence of conflict", then it most definitely is a lie. Life without conflict leads to complacency, stagnation, corruption, and apathy. My LS Sith believe that Dark Side Sith have become slaves to their basest impulses and thus are not actually "free" as the Sith Code defines it. True freedom includes the ability to voluntarily exercise restraint and place some cause or organization above yourself; in this case, they are out to reform the Empire into something a bit more rational.
So light-side Sith seek personal power & freedom without going down the rabbit hole of fear, hatred & other "negative" emotions.
I guess this means there might have been dark-side Jedi who sought selflessness, harmony, & enlightenment without going down the rabbit hole of mercy, forgiveness or other "positive" emotions.
A Dark Side Jedi would look a lot like Thanos. The Jedi are Stoic so they belive in humility, service and balance. Obviously that works well with the Light Side but if a Jedi Stoic decided balance required more death and chaos (say the death of half the universe) then their Jedi phylosophy of humility and sacrifice for the greater good would require them to embrace the Dark Side.
Isn't that what windu did?
@@maxstirner4197
Windu was neither a light-side Sith or a dark-side Jedi. His shtick was that he could be extremely aggressive without giving in to outright anger & rage & harnessing the dark side of the force as a result.
Fun Fact, if you use a Character boost on a Fresh Sith Inquisitor in SWTOR, they are referred to as Darth Imperious, implying that for Sith Inquisitors them being Light Side might be Canon.
Really cool concept they should make a show or film about light sith and their struggle to survive. Seeking power in the light side sounds really cool
The Ancient Sith are way more interesting than Vader and Palpatine!!! More powerful, menacing and less predictable!!!🐯🦁
@@hackman669 They weren't more powerful than Palpatine at the Height of his Power. That's Pre OR Post Disney. Palpatine had a destructive power that could compete with Darth Nihilus in Power, but with WITHOUT being Controlled and Consumed by his power. Even if you're going with Disney Level, the power that he puts out with his Force Lightning is INSANE and FAR more powerful than almost any other Sith Lord.
I think the Light Sith were TOO ADVANCED for their time. They were a Solution to the Brotherhood of Darkness problem of the Dilution of Power, but WITHOUT the destruction of the Sith Empire like with Darth Bane. An if we can have Dark Jedi, why not Light Sith? I mean sure, maybe it never would have worked, or maybe they would have found balance like the Jed'ai, but we'll never know. An that's a DAMN shame, because even if it failed, it would have been VERY interesting! MUCH more interesting than the Brotherhood of Jedi!
I dunno if im missing something but it makes sense to me they'd call themselves sith. They are still after power. They just use the light to get it. Jedi on the otherhand also use the light but they arent after power. Different goals. They'd be like anti villains i guess. Do good things that benefit themselves. I dunno. If im wrong. Correct me
I believe that the most powerful sith lord to ever exist proves that the light sith where on to something. After all Tenebrae and revan both kinda surprised the full orders of the sith and jadi via mastery of both sides of the force and Tenebrae honestly came the closest to actually acomplishing the goals of the sith order.
To me, they sound just like the Grey Jedi but just like how Grey Jedi still leaned a bit more to the light side and fought for peace and had similar goals to the Jedi but used different methods to achieve those goals, these Grey Sith(mainly the first one but still)used both the Light and the Dark side but Favoured the dark side more and used more positive(Light side)emotions to fuel their power! and just like there counterparts had similar goals to the Sith but just used different methods to achieve them!
I think the main purpose for a Light-side sith would be Light-side force users with a more selfish focus. Sith focus on the self and emotions, meanwhile Jedi focus on the force and try to suppress their emotions to be tools for the force.
Thus, Light-side Sith would still seek to empower themselves and their own goals, but they'd be more open to utilizing their emotions in their methods. They would seek the betterment of others because it's what they want to do, not because of the will of the force, and their relationship with the force would more often be that of a common goal rather than the Jedi's view of being a tool for the force.
The main aspect I can see of Light-side Sith is the usage of all emotions to fuel their power. Even love and attachment to others, something normally both the Jedi and Sith reject, could easily be taken by Light-side Sith as a method to empower oneself. Taking up the protection of others could also become a form of Pride to fuel their emotions. A saying I've used before is fitting of a Light-side Sith;
The strong have the power to kill, but the stronger have the power to save. It takes more strength to subdue than it takes to kill.
To a Light-side Sith, saving others would be a way of showing even greater strength.
Well, it sounds like the Light Sith believed that the Light Side was more powerful then the Dark Side, so since they used the light to achieve power I'd say it is kind of possible to have Sith like that.
I think the issue is that for one to truly commit to the light side, they'll end up letting go of their desire for power. It's ironic cause in a way, they can achieved everything they wanted, but would no longer desire it once they had it.
@@TheProswagonist Yeah, that is a good point, but since they already had the desire for power they may not have lost it getting into the Light. It's hard to say really.
Well, according to some lore that you have spoken of, I do recall you mention that Revan himself embraced attachment similar to the Light Side Sith you speak of here.
The idea of the Jedi not having attachments or love is a foreign concept to Star Wars lore until it suddenly popped up in The Clone Wars. Before then, there had been plenty of canon Jedi with family and kids.
A story of sith redemption, even a tragedy, would be epic.
I like the idea of achieving power in the light side outside of the Jedi order. All the restrictions of the Jedi would stop one from achieving this it would be dangerous too their teachings.
"Treacherous "Light Sith" must be purged!" -Darth Nox.
Some of the Light Sith, especially after the rise of the Eternal Alliance, were loyal to the Galactic Republic rather than the Sith Empire. Among them, Kel'eth Ur’s teachings were appreciated, but recognized as going too far in the other direction by rejecting Passion. Many Light Sith chose to embrace rather good passions and emotions, and above all-love, and attachment. The attachments for some being understood as giving relationships and not about taking or jealousy, though loyal and faithful. Passion is the path to power… to cut oneself off entirely from passion is to contradict the Sith Code, and many of the Light Sith still fully embraced it, though understanding it differently than the Dark Side Sith. But the Light Sith discovered a way to experience attachment without clinging in a way which leads to the Dark Side and so being fully individual and yet connected as they believed the Force intended for living sentients, exercising a good will in the galaxy.
Light Sith philosophy at points seems more compatible with Christianity in our world, whereas Jedi philosophy seems more in like with Buddhism… as Christianity does not reject rightly-ordered attachments and passions. The key to power and peace is the integration of all of one’s emotions in a way that is rightly-ordered towards the good, exteriorly and interiorly. The Light Sith found Jedi repression of emotions to be a dangerous path to the Dark Side, and some of their worst opponents were in fact former-Jedi.
The only thing that contradicts the light side sith is that they were searching for power. While none of the light side organisations search for power.
I think a light side sith that would eventually understand the light side would eventually become someone from a light side organisation. We know that understanding and becoming one with the force is one of the ways to become immensely powerful in the force. Understanding the force and using it as a vessel. We know by nature the Force has a light side and a neutral side.
The dark side on the other hand, is a direct manifestation of personal feelings. The only way to access the dark side is to be seduced or use negative emotions. While the light side is a natural state of the force.
Interesting... I was unaware of this actually. Awesome content 👍
The light sis are like dark Jedi. Good moreclothes link to being balanced like we're supposed to be but yet the farthest from it. It's something I could give or take but it would be interesting to introduce them to Cannon
I would like the light sith order
1. Keep the rule of two
2. Focus of self gain , does not have to be power. Example knowledge. use the force for self improvement and not improvement of others if there is nothing to gain.
3. Have them as exploreors
I love The sith order we really need to more sith Lords in future of star wars they definitely deserve more star wars content
True enough, the most interesting though are those who do not follow the code directly. Combining elements of both light and dark to achieve true balance.😄
I like the idea of a light size if you can kind of equate that to someone like a Quinlan Vos or a Mace Windu if you wanted to be exotic about it
This was a very informative video
Kaleth Ur, Vectivus, and even The Ronin are my favourite examples of light side Sith. They've taught that the Sith don't always have to live off power, corruption, and rage. They've shown that to be a light side Sith is to seek out personal perfection and to strive to be better than the previous moment.
A dark side Sith is more easily corrupted because of his attainments. The more he has, the greater his fall. A light side Sith can possibly balance better and act from a position of clarity and wisdom. Casting aside fear, anger, and pain...but keeping detirmination and ambition but in moderation can act as a powerful catalyist.
they can use the Light Side to heal themselves so that right there makes it useful
I played a light side Sith playthrough with my warrior in The Old Republic. It was way more interesting than a dark side playthrough
Overcoming the darkness to ultimately align with the light WOULD make one extremely wise 🤔
If memory serves correctly (or if you just watch the video conversation) in SWTOR Dark Jaesa Willsaam hunts for light leaning Sith. I can’t help but wonder if this group was the group that she first slaughtered.
Light Jaesa seeks to find them and help them, so you interact with them regardless of your alignment on SW
@@cruxofthesubject1402 true but from the video, this may not be the first time the group got massacred and rebuilt if Jaesa was Dark
@@Achuidian179 Yeah there was definitely something left behind if Darth Gravid was still influenced at least
I think the key here is the Sith code calls of the infusion of emotion where Jedi do not,
But the light side Sith want to focus on USING Positive emotion rather than ignoring ALL emotion the way jedi proclaim.
A Light Sith would indeed be a true terror. They would be completely free of their emotions, able to act cooly, calmly, and rationally under all circumstances. And like a switch flip into full on Dark Side rage mode before their opponent can even draw their weapon. But at the same time, any mental attacks directed back at them would be blocked by that Light Side mental clarity. Using Light and Dark powers with pinpoint accuracy when and where they're needed... It's like in Skyrim if you're like "Fuck it, I'm getting ALL the perks," and you grind to level 252 just so you don't have to pick and choose.
This is awesome. Consider this. The very 1st Sith were FALLEN JEDI. They grew within the Jedi Order. In this way the darkside is always a threat to the Jedi. Even when they've destroyed the Sith. This story is but the opposite. The light taking root from within the Dark. Occurring in the same fashion. Curious members questioning the status quo and desiring to know the unknown. They come to realize what Master Yoda stated to Luke. The Darkside is just quicker but ultimate power comes from the light.
It seems reasonable to me that Sith can ‘fall’ to the light side just like the Jedi can ‘fall’ to the dark side. Darth Vader did both didn’t he? Fits right into the SW Ying-Yang(ish) dynamic.
The story of the Light Sith plays out slightly different because of its ties to the Sith Warrior character story in the Star Wars The Old Republic mmo. And Darth Imperious is kinda sorta the "non canon" version of the Sith Inquisitor Story player character who has a different title based on alignment. Nox (Dark), Imperious (Light), and Oculus (Neutral), with Nox being technically the "canon" outcome.
I think Imperious may actually be canon, if you level boost a SI for Fallen Empire, they are referred to as Imperious.
I think this was as close as a Sith could come to the concept of Grey.
So many of the What Ifs always seem to end up with the Jedi bringing more feeling into their order. Could this not be the opposite?
I like them kinda make things go full circle.
Wow!!! I was so sure I made up the idea of being a 'Light Sith'. Lol. I figured a light Sith would be way way waaaayyyy more powerful then a dark sider, since the dark side represents death, chaos, and entropy. Whereas the light side represents life affirming aspects of the force, meaning, there would have to be a limit to how far you could grow before the very nature of the dark side energies would begin to have extremely deleterious effects upon living matter. I've called myself a light sith for years, looking down my nose at those foolish Jedi, so fearful of emotions like Love, Joy, and ecstasy. Lol! I'm eager to hear what the video has to reveal.
I have found a a combat medic Thant it is difficult to remove all emotion from life. If you focus on negative emotions it will break you. You need to balance the harsh negative with good emotions. If you want to truly be the best you can be you must use all you have to help you do so.
I would love to see playable stats for a group that escaped the purge for an Edge of the Empire campaign.
I think this is a really good point to make.
While playing light-side Sith and stuff is fun within the context of SWTOR and such, it ultimately doesn't make sense long-term. to me. Star Wars is meant to be a bit of an exaggerated opera of ideals. Dark Side IS corrupting. It is not a "but real life is complicated" thing, as Star Wars is very much built on the idea of Light Side being good and Dark Side being evil/destructive. "Light-side Sith" just feels like a "want your cake and eat it too" kind of thing. The only way a Light-side Sith can make sense, to me, is if that Sith is on his way out. Like he has changed internally and come to the Light, and is on his way out of the dark side dogma. Maybe they operate under the Sith name for a time, to try and be clever, but ultimately you cannot remain a Sith once that change occurs. I actually like how SWTOR did this bit, for the SIth Warrior specifically. You are "Sith" in terms of belonging to the group starting out. But you can choose to embrace the light and (spoilers):
- you can choose to try and change things/sabotage the darker workings of the Sith Empire. So it can make sense, because you are actively opposing the current Sith value system. It cannot work if you both embrace the SIth ways, AND the light side.
I think you can be a light-side Force User who is not a Jedi. But not a Sith. You would just have to fall outside of the two dogmas altogether.
Sounds like if they met and joined forces with Dark Jedi, they could have perfected true balance in the force. But that's my opinion, so enjoy. Hope to hear some others and their own thoughts on this.
Wonder if light side Sith would become friends with Jedi from the post F🤫allen Order era! Imagine a Jedi on the run from the Empire and he meets and Light Sith. Wonder if they would share ideals and join forces to help the Rebellion. Or simply part and go their own ways.
Balance in the Force does not mean half light and half dark side. It is more like the concept of Asian medicine balance, where the dark side is disease. The body is in balance when there is no disease and everything is working properly. The dark side is not half of the Force. It is a second similar, but different thing (being?) that developed as a corruption of the Force. Not like the other side of a coin, but instead like a totally different coin. Using the dark side restricts the ability to use the Force sort like chromic use of drugs makes the body dependant sometimes on needing those drugs to feel some things, as the body stops producing various chemicals or hormones itself.
Very interesting Star Was video 👍👍
Palpatine had fear, Vader had fear, Plagus had fear, Maul had fear, so many exhibit fear no matter what they claim.
I think the approach to the Light Sith in this video is too narrow - potentially, they could end up balanced, like the Je'daii, or closer to Revan, who was predominantly a Jedi who used his emotions.
Well keep in mind it was in it's Infancy. It never had the chance to really EXPLORE what that could mean or grow into. Maybe they would have been the Sith equivalent of Mace Windu. Maybe they would have been like Darth Traya, balancing the Philosophies of Jedi AND Sith. Maybe they would have been like the White Latern Kyler Rayner in DC, using the COMPLETE Emotional Spectrum, rather than relying upon ONLY specific emotions to fuel their Power.
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It is quite interesting to think about and something worth exploring. Is it not logical that since some of the strongest Jedi to ever exist, Mace Windu, Luke and Anakin Skywalker, delved into the Dark Side and came out with balance, is It not logical that the same thing could be achieved by a Sith looking to the Light and also finding balance? I freely admit that Anakin and Luke had the Chosen One thing as well, but Mace Windu is a perfect example. I think such a character could make a fantastic story.
True power is somewhere between pain and serenity I believe if you can learn to use both light and dark side techniques in harmony then you’d reach your true power/potential
The Revan solution
I've heard a phrase I'm only able to paraphrase; "He who is capable of immense love, is equally capable of immense hate". Basically, to grow your capacity in one is to increase your capacity in the other. It seems to me that "balance" just means neutrality. True neutrality seems like zero on the Cartesian coordinate graph, while going in any direction would be plus or minus. I still have a hard time seeing how that translates into power. Maybe potential power is all balance can be a measure of. I could be thinking about this in terms that can't truly be summed up with mathematical concepts.
@@SonofKalas22 exactly why I love revan
@@princedeucidius To use your mathematical representation, balance is achieved not when at 0 but when you match your 5 on one side with a 5 on the other. You do not need to be a single point. They don't negate each other like positive and negative numbers do.
That phrase does not describe force alignment in Star Wars. The Sith eschew love as a weakness. They nurture their capacity to hate, and kill their capacity to love. The Jedi likewise suppress their fear, anger and hate to seek detachment.
@@SonofKalas22 Yeah I get what you're saying. Using my analogy of Cartesian coordinates would require using the x, y rather than the negative/positive x axis. That's the way you would have to show that the increase in one aspect increases at least the capacity of the other. Balance would appear graphically as a line between the x,y axis at a 45degree angle. That's why the way I was imagining the balance between light and dark made no damned sense. Lol! Clarity appreciated.
A faction that proclaims loyalty to an authority but whose ideology is incompatible with that authority isn't unheard of. In fact I'd argue it's pretty common. You hear about people who disagree with a politician on everything but still vote for them purely because of what party they're associated with.
Second, becoming a Jedi only works if you agree with the Order, which we know is not infallible. Therefore Light Sith could be seen as simply a different faction of force users.
The whole point of the sith is that they are not bound by rules, so a light sided sith is not outlandish, especially if you consider all forms of passion to be a path to power.
Passion includes love after all.
A great video!
Light side of Sith teaching about fear reminds me original Jedi teaching (just can't remember name, jen jedi or something) There is no ignorance, there's wisdom
There is no fear, there's power!
Fear seems to be biggest weaknesses of both Sith and Jedi and reason, why they abandoned their original ways. Dark Jedi did fall into fear in wars and let Dark side control them in their searching for power and become slave of it. Jedi, seeing what could happen, started to fear dark side and abandoned it as whole, ignoring danger of blindly following light. Dark Siths probably realized part of the original teaching be coincidence and started using light side while having part of philosophy of original Jedi, or something similar. They didn't try to achieve balance of two sides, but their teaching probably least to it or is suitable for it at least.
Light Side Cult? That's confusing! That was an interesting theory about a Light Sith.
Do y’all know who wrote these who created and added to the Star Wars universe. I’m really asking I’ve been somewhat curious about it and not just for Star Wars but for all these stories that deal with the sci-fi and fantasy genres. 🤘😊🖤
I think there’s a way to reconcile the oddness of a light-oriented Sith. The Dark side revolves around selfish desire and intense emotion. The Light focuses on surrendering of one’s will and reining in desires and passions. The Sith philosophy is centered on gaining power. So it is theoretically possible for a Sith to “surrender” his or her will to the Force in the hopes that doing so will lead to greater power in the Force.
The Will of the Force is not explained in great detail in terms of its alignment. In fact, it may not be either Light or Dark. It seems to desire that certain key events in the Galaxy’s timeline occur, and play out I n a specific way. So one may come to the conclusion that the Will of the Force can barter power for fulfillment of its desires.
Whether the Light Side Sith would be correct in this reasoning, though… well, we may never know.
It was stated that the Jedi ignore many things and are often locked in their thinking due to their ideology, they do not only ignore the dark side, they ignore emotions, attachment, and many things that prevent their own growth, Sith however embrace everything passion to grow and explore, to learn new things, to expand already known knowledge, they may call themselves the Light Sith, but there is no Sith that does not know the dark side, they merely focused on the positive emotions, love, mercy, compassion, loyalty, friendship, kindness, they are Sith because unlike the Jedi they refuse to say there is no emotion, there is no chaos, there is no ignorance, there is no death, they can't accept that.
So instead they focused on their positive feelings, of helping each other, instead of looking for ways to do each other in, life by its very nature is chaotic, there can be no wisdom without realizing that a person doesn't know everything, and thus accept their own ignorance, and so many of their fellow sith died either from needless conflict with each other, or murdered by Jedi to deny that Death actually exists.
In essence a light Sith would use his own emotions to grow and would prefer to use a compassionate, peaceful and merciful action, but if conflict is needed, they will fight to defend themselves and those around him. After all the Jedi who supposed to only follow the light, have committed acts of genocide, but we don't call this mass murderers having fallen to the dark side do we? A single Jedi even went as far as to destroy an entire planet. Malachor V,
I love the idea of a light sith
In my mind, the only way to achieve true power is to find balance. Allow yourself to form attachments as those you love can save you from death as you can save them. However, don't allow those attachments to blind you from what need be done. Accept that the dark is as much a part of the fore as is the light, but don't allow it to consume you as it is so easily corrosive. Fear is as much an inevitability as death, so don't try to avoid fear or treat it like it doesn't exist, but face it or use it to your advantage.
All things in life exist in a state of balance. Nothing can exist without an opposite to counter it. Light and dark. Good and evil. Life and death. Both the Jedi and the Sith were fools in believing in only one side while trying to destroy the other. Every time ends in disaster.
A Light Sith you say.....That's what I want to be. Give me that Holocron.
I agree,this is pretty strange. Very strange. Light Sith. Makes no sense. Sith use passion,hatred,power,jealousy. They want power and dominance. You are not harsh. You are completely right. May the Force be with you too. Have a great day
The Sith code is not incompatible with the light side of the force. Love (romantic, familial, or fraternal) is a source of passion and is oriented towards the light. It was Luke’s love of his father, and Anakin’s love of his son, which allowed them to overcome the Emperor. Can you imagine a Sith empowered by the ideal “no greater love hath a man than this: that he lay down his life for his fellow man.”? This would not be a Jedi. Jedi seek peace and tranquility through rejecting attachment. Light side Sith would find power through his love for others. We even see this in SWTOR: Darth Marr at his end. He was motivated by love for his people, and that gave him the courage to stand against his former emperor.
So to become the ultimate Sith you just...become a Jedi?
Nah! The Jedi fear certain abilities which would not only make them equal to, and even more powerful than the dark Sith. Like, how the hell does Ploo Koon discover force lightning, and only accidently? Every Dark sith seems to have the dark side version of that. How does Darth Nihilus have the force drain ability but no Jedi can do mass healing? There would have to be abilities that the dark siders simply can't employ as the power in the force would simply kill you or burn you out like Palpatine/Sidius, but which the light side correlation would be accessible by strengthening one's abilities and opening yourself to a level of emotions that could threaten to sweep you away..
I'm actually working on a book about how a "Light Sith" (although I don't call them that) would work.
I mean, it makes sense that back when the Sith were just as numerous as the Jedi, you'd occasionally have some who realized the dark side is kind of bullshit but still didn't want to become Jedi. Just like there have been fallen Jedi throughout the order's history who *didn't* become Sith. There are also a variety of other Force-based groups that are light side aligned but decidedly aren't Jedi, like the Fallanassi and the Baran Do Sages.
In the long run, it would've been pretty silly for "Light Sith" to maintain the pretense of still being Sith just out of tradition when they're rejecting everything the Sith stand for. But seeing as their cult didn't last long enough to *have* a "long run" before the Sith massacred them, that doesn't really matter.
Also, the reason that Darth Gravid went insane is that he tried to use the light and dark simultaneously, which is impossible.
Would this be the opposite of a dark Jedi? Do dark Jedi use the dark side of the force similar to the sith?
For all intensive purposes Mace Windu could be considered a dark Jedi since he use dark elements to weaken his opponents.
What is the dilliniation between a light sith/grey jedi/ Je'daii?
Where are all these clips from ? with all the sith and malik and stuff
I didn't know the Batman who laughs was a Sith!? Makes sense!
Wouldn’t the light sith be more like gray jedi or dark jedi
I would think that just like the dark sith purge ALL light from themselves to take on more power or 'grow in the dark side, the light sith would have to purge ALL dark impulses and emotions to grow in power in the light.
Just like regular Sith but with less calories.
The Light Side Sith is just a Grey Jedi. There is balance. Using both the Light Side and the Dark Side of the Force to achieve your goals.💯
I feel like the difference is one tried to combine light and dark, whereas the other truky abandoned the darkside for the light
6:05 kinda looks like Joey jordison from. Slipknot lol
Recite the Sith Code acolyte and explain it's meaning.
Right, there's the Dark Side and the Light Side and there you have it.
I feel a light sith could work in the same principle as we have vaapid users going for power is their aim and using any tools to get it
This...actually works in Viciate's Sith Empire, because being Sith was simply being part of his empire. He had already chosen to brainwash Force users to focus on extreme loyalty rather than personal power and advancement, so I can see how a group of "Light Sith" could exist under those circumstances.
what's the difference between this and grey jedi/dark jedi?
The Light's advantages are stability and consistency. It may not achieve the same level of strength as the Dark, but it is not so physically and emotionally damaging.
The Dark is like a bomb. It's incredibly powerful and destructive, but the bomb destroys itself producing that power.
Even the traditions of the Sith reflect this. When a Sith lord becomes powerful he must kill the other and take a new apprentice. They intentionally destroy their most powerful and most wise members. And train future Sith that come after to continue this cycle of self destruction.
Gravid wasn't really a light Sith. He drew upon the dark and light, it drove him insane. The light Sith were lightsiders who were loyal to their Empire, but not the teachings of the order.
Intriguing
2:02 information
It's not only strange but very confusing.... For anyone that doesn't recognize mace is just a reverse version
They kinda come off as the Sith verison of Grey Jedi
I feel like the true way to become powerful is applying both teachings of both light and dark side u need to understand both to know all
I really can't believe that there was light sith
Is there an order, group, whatever that follows both? Like you use the light and dark side without trying like a sith to be the most powerful and control everything or like a jedi that tries to keep peace and just uses the force for that? I always thought it was kinda dumb for the jedi to teach about the force, but only half of it was allowed to be learned or used and dumb that if you use the dark side, you automaticly strife to kill every competition and amass as much power as possible.
Like the jedi teachings say you cant have passion, form attachements and so on, but everybody knows if you dont have those things in life, its not really a worthwhile life. But then you fall to the dark side since you have those things and become a powerhungry dictator.. how is there nothing in betwteen?
@@stepanovicboro I think you are hitting on the failings of both organizations. The Sith end up being limited in what they can obtain and losing themselves in their pursuit of power (whether they realize this or not) through their ideology. The Jedi on the other hand had a healthy balance in their ideology at point of their history (I believe there are a few storied of Jedi with families and maybe even a point in time where caring and developing relationships was encouraged, though attachment is still not encouraged) but they end up falling because they unknowingly gave into the dark side by trying to avoid it. So much of the Republic era Jedi teaching is about avoiding falling to the dark side (a thing they fear whether they are admitting it or not) so they recruit younger and younger (essentially forcing children into their organization), requiring no attachments (leading to psychopaths like Ki-Adi-Mundi), and restricting the actions of its members to prevent them from learning things that may cause them to turn (and isn't it a sith ideology to Dominate and control). Yoda is the one who speaks about fear leading to the dark side, Yoda also talks about how they have been entrapped by the Sith which is mostly in reference to the way they have been forced to fight, but also may be about the way they have changed over the years due to the threat of the dark side. The intention of the original story seem to be that the Jedi are the middle ground of balance but have fully and completely lost their way (a good example of a Jedi who is very balanced is Obi-wan. He forms attachments, learns things he probably shouldn't, and backed Anakin joining the order even if he didn't fully understand at the time. He knowingly gives away his position on missions where his attachment might lead him to falter, but also manages to keep his head on straight while on missions where he has personal attachments.
That all said, the is the Bendu who claims to be only affiliated with "The Force" in the more modern canon suggesting that the idea the the monk like method of giving yourself to the intentions of the force might not be the only path to balance like it used to be
No, no, it makes sense. They're like Dark Jedi, in that they still believe in what they've always believed in, just seeking a more effective way to pursue it. These Sith pursued power and victory, and came to realize that cooperation, restraint, and the ability to build a strong, stable society was the best way to reach their goals. They're right, but that's not what their existing civilization of blood-mad warlords wanted to hear. They didn't want to join the Jedi instead because the people they wanted to guide and protect were the Sith Empire. Just like how Jedi might fall to the Dark Side without wanting to destroy the Republic.
How is this different from Mace Windu's incorporation of the Dark Side?
I mean... if there can be dark jedi, why not light sith?
Realistically because some jedi will tolerate the behavior
Sith cull the ""weak""
@@zimthefan6258some biblical type stuff am i right
Curious very curious.
Is the only reason they’re not called dark/grey Jedi bc the light sith are older? If not, what would the difference be between them? In my mind if they sat at the same table they would have similar philosophies despite different starting points
The darkness can not thrive without some light, much like the light can not thrive without some darkness. This is where the Sith are blind to the benefits of having just a bit light.
I find this to be very interesting I know the dark and the light are connected. You can’t have one without the other. It’s kinda reminds me of Yin and yang from Chinese philosophy. After all Star Wars is inspired from the Japanese culture. 🤔🤔
To be fair there's a similar thing among Martial artists and being emotional and culling emotion
a jedi who works for the empire, a sith who works for the republic. the ideals of an individual does not mean that those ideals should govern. my ideals would make an unfunctional society, yet i still maintain them while living in a society of differing ideals. this is not the means justify the end this is about the path to those end, if a sith used their power to better the republic does this mean they are no longer sith, they may still follow the same code as other sith but work for a different government.
how i see it is not who governs the individual, but the code, lifestyle & ideals that the individual holds as being what makes the jedi or sith.
Also a Q: what if a force user never aligns with the jedi or sith but lives a life separate from both orders what is this individual known as if anything?
Light sith make sense if you think about it is not domination over one's passions and vices a form of power? Could that power not be wielded? I don't think a light sith is so contradictory due to my own way of life. I constantly tend to struggle with a desire to manipulate and control others and instead choose to manipulate and control myself to a point i have some manner of control that is uncommon over my own impulses and a level of self awareness that while i aspire against tranquility and instead aspire to become like a storm externally turbulent while calm within. I wear darkness as a mantle while shining brightly within and the light sith would align with a similar method. To dominate all worlds one should first dominate themselves and the strength or power obtained from such complete power and dominance is nothing to mock nor see as any less powerful. I tend to see other martial artist as foolish given they silence emotions and quiet the mind instead of learning to live in tandem with their emotions and focusing those intense surges towards their ambitions i admire the myths of the berserkers far greater than the tranquil fighters in the world I instead learn to dwell in the storm of emotion and aspire to become a perfect storm and i suppose this understanding is why concepts such as light sith make a lot of sense to me.
A sith can do Light side. As Jedi avoid attachment. Sith embrace their passions. But passion is not only expressed through anger and hate. They can embrace such emotions as love and empathy. And have passion for good things. And get married, unlike Jedi.
i believe a light side Sith is true balance or close to it
I think Dark Jedi and Light Sith are two sides of the same coin. Dark Jedi would use fear of losing those closest to them and feed on that power to eliminate threats to the galaxy with prejudice, whereas Light Sith would calmly eliminate threats to their loved ones simply because its the best thing for them, but do so far more actively and violently than the Jedi typically would.
We see one of the primary doctrines of the Jedi is that they must act in self defense, but on the other hand during the clone wars they can be cold, unfeeling machines capable of wiping out thousands within mere moments. They train to feel nothing at the loss of those around them. Luminara coldly accepted Bariss was to be buried alive, Ki-Adi Mundi let go of his family on his home planet, never offering aid. Windu had a bad habit of straight up executing people, and when Boba came after him for it he kinda just shrugs it off and basically goes "Yeah that makes sense, sorry kid but it happens."
A Light Sith would be far more proactive in ventures, and would allow for attachments of love and compassion, enjoying company of others while it lasts and seeking to preserve that company while still being prepared to move on from it should anything happen. Those close to them would be deserving of protection, and anything that threatens them is simply a wall that must be felled, no matter how many people they have to mechanically slaughter. Anyone that oppose them would be less than battle droids, simply waiting to be cut down, but without feeling. Only peaceful acceptance that this is simply what must be done to preserve those around them, so that is what they will do. The peacefulness of the light side, without the passivity of the jedi
The light sith would look a lot like Batman.
Philosophically the Sith follow Niche's Will to Power. They reject morality, emphasize individualism and individual power. Niche doesn't reject the Dark Side but I agree that the Light Side is a better fit. Many Dark Side techniques have Light Side variants but the Light Side has unique abilities like healing, puts less stain on the users body and let's the user maintain cold rationality in a fight. A light Sith would not be limited by Stoic humility. Like Batman they would be brutal and cunning and obsessively pursue personal power. But also like Batman they would ruthlessly preserve life and order. The Sith struggle with Empire because the nature of the Dark Side is chaos. The Stoic Jedi struggle with the contradiction of being humble servants but wielding immense power. The light sith totalitarian regime would last forever.
I wonder how Anakin Skywalker would react if he knew about the Light Side Sith?
He would shake his head in confusion and hunt them down. Thinking they are traitors and insane.