I think the rules are better released at the same time for all armies, to prevent power creep. Adding new units, then create something for everyone and release it at the same time. The lore can be combined into a single tome that will still sell, but only to people that actually want it.
That would be ideal I agree, but logistically that's pretty much impossible. GW would need to hire a lot more employees for that, and then lay them off for years until they rerelease every codex at once again. Logistically, it makes more sense to have a smaller team releasing books regularly to have a steady source of income instead.
The way I'd do it is conceptually split 40k into 3 major factions; Imperial, Chaos and Xenos. Each of those major factions is further split into 5 divisions, with each of those divisions having a codex. For example the Chaos faction would have a codex for each of the Chaos gods and a generic one, so; Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch and a codex for undivided/ unaligned. The Xenos faction would have a codex book for each of the major alien races; Eldar, Orcs, Tyranids, Necrons and Tau. The Imperial faction would have a codex for both of the major armies and 3 books for specialists, so; Space Marines & Imperial Guard and 3 more codexes covering the specialist groups like Sororitas, Mechanicus, Rogue traders, Inquisition, Grey knights etc. (for a total of 15 CODEX BOOKS, 5 for each faction) Each Codex covers 3 related armies within it, such as the Khorne codex would cover; Khorne chaos marines, Khorne daemons and Khorne cults while the Eldar codex would cover; Aeldari, Drukhari & Exodites. These codexes are generalised to give an overview of that race, chaos view or imperial focus but each army within that could still be played on its own. Such as you could play just Khorne daemons as there is a Khorne daemon unit in each section of force organisation chart for that or just Khorne Cultists or you could play as a mixture of both. (for a total of 45 armies covered. 3 armies in each of the 15 codexes) For those that want to go even more precise rules, background & models for specific armies like 'World Eaters' or 'Death Corps of Krieg' are found on the GW website (download/ app). With that in mind TWO CODEXES ARE ALWAYS RELEASED TOGETHER, each from a different faction. So the Space marine codex (imperial) could be released with the Nurgle Codex (chaos), while the Slaanesh codex (chaos) might be released with the Eldar codex (xenos) and the Tau with Imperial Guard and so forth around the circle... That way you are reducing production & marketing costs while releasing 6 balanced armies simultaneously (3 armies in each codex & 2 codexes at a time) and giving equal attention to each faction/ army. With that you would have some appropriate scenery released along with each codex and each codex of course would have a 'start collecting' box. When a new 40k Edition comes out the release order of which codex comes out with what other codex gets changed, and the box-set for that edition is of the first 2 codexes for that edition. So the 10th edition box-set could have Tzeentch Vs Necrons, while 11th edition box-set be the Imperial guard Vs Orcs. That edition would be themed to the box-set of that edition, so while in 11th edition every codex would be released (along with miniatures, terrain and rules for each army contained within those codexes) 11th edition as a whole would have a strong Imperial guard & Orc theme. While the previous 10th edition would have a had a strong Tzeentch & Necron theme in its stories, art and advertising. That way over the course of releases you are building up atmosphere and depth while adding to the library of usable material. . The idea is to streamline, make it more fair & balanced while easier for marketing and sales. Yet it doesn't remove or restrict anything...the deeper or more army/ lore specific you go into 40k the more you are directed to downloads and made to order, while the generic stuff (the codex scale) is easy to find and used to bring in new customers.
That would require them having everything they're planning to release both read at edition launches and in the codex with little or no ability to build hype, which will make their marketing department rather unhappy. But, ideally yes. If they moved to purely digital via the app it becomes a lot more viable as they just have to launch and announce what is ready and add new items as models launch later allowing the marketing department to get their hype train going too (sadly a important thing with the way investments work these days).
I think you’re right about how codexes should shift more to lore and art books. If you’re just looking for looking for the rules for your faction you can just find them online.
Oh man something about Jay has been bothering me for a while. I couldn't ever define it it was just a feeling, but now it is revealed. he wears Crocs...
That first codex is probably 40k’s best ever version of Lovecraftian horror, which tied in nearly with how the early versions of Necron lore mirrored the expanding nature of the models by showing them as a largely unknown force slowly awakening into the 41st millennium.
With the Codex being outdated usually the same day it comes out, I find it increasingly hard to justify buying physical copies other than from a collector's standpoint. Then again, the 9E Codexes are pretty light on lore and interesting stuff compared to 8E ones so...
As a newbie to wargaming, the codex approach is the most offputting thing to me. Spending on models or equipment is all good but spending my limited budget on books is just not something i am willing to do especially with no guarantee of shelf life.
Agreed, I just use online resources. The price of these books is a lot too. Considering the price of models and stuff, all the rules for everything should be online for free. A lot of companies do this, and it makes it a lot easier for people to get into the game. Maybe just publish the codex's for lore, physical copy of rules, and army painting guide. If anything a smaller and cheaper softcover version of these books with just rules would be great as well.
They need to just do an online database like dnd beyond. That way they can actually put out consistent and proper updates the fact that they stick to this system shows how anti consumer gw really is
Faction rules should have never crossed the 20 dollar barrier, 40 dollars is pushing it and now if you want to play a specific faction it can be 70 dollars or more. At this point the core factions should be made available free, and everything else is supplemental can be 10 - 20 dollars.
I just got into Warhammer 40k in November 2020. I immediately feel in love with the models and the gameplay. Then I hit a wall because all the rules, datasheets and gameplay options are not immediately available online. I purchased the 9th edition Necron codex and I can say without a doubt that while I am definitely going to get into other factions I will never buy another codex. Aside from the obvious greed factor hard copy codexes are simply not even close to the most efficient/effective ways to govern this game. I'm saying this as an adult with disposable income, forcing people to buy these shitty codexes is costing GW money in the long run. It made me less enthusiastic about playing a game that seems to be administered by a company that openly disrespects it's customer base. I spent a significant amount of money building a necron army from Nov-Mar. If all the rules and datasheets were online I would have spent double on building another faction. Lastly, if I didn't have to spend 50$ on a codex I would have just spent it on more models anyways.
The codex model as a way to deliver rules has been bad since the early 2000s. Pdfs or a living document are in general better, but then they couldn't sell people balance updates.
Nice! But being an old player, it is my duty as Ancient of Rites to add another codex to the list. It is not a true codex in and of itself, but it was the first iteration of the rules/bg for the dreaded NECRON RAIDERS, who appeared in a White Dwarf in the later 90'. The models were few and ugly AF: much more skeletal looking and hunched. The Lord looked like a robo-wizard. The warrior's Gauss Flayer was a sort of sci-fi jackhammer, same goes for the immortal. The scarabs were what you would get if you'd try to draw a fly only using straight lines. The destroyers looked like flying go-cart with a murder robot on top. I have this weird feeling you would love it. I could wrestle with the pile of old magazine I have in the basement to send it to you, but it would be in italian.
When I first got into 40K, I loved the idea of codexs. But then I soon found out about FAQs and Errata, and I thought... "why don't they just have this as an app?" as much as I love the books, having an app that can have passages updated live like patch notes / code for a video game makes so much more sense in this day and age. Oh the 40K app exists, but doesn't have this functionality? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa????????????????????????????????????????????????
@@Sh-kl8gy and the fact that they haven't hired the battlescribe guys to develop their own app is seriously beyond me. Although they've got the Astartes guy now ... so maybe the future holds hope?
I agree so much! When I first got into Warhammer I was shocked at how normalized misprints, faqs, and erratas were. Like how does anyone keep things straight??
@@jaiar12 Part of me initially wanted to physically cut and paste the faq/errata into my codex, but I just stopped myself because this is a weird, esoteric thing that shouldn't really be handled by the player / customer. I think Jay's suggestion towards the end is a much healthier win-win for players and GW. Up the subscription cost, but for god's sake update the thing so it behaves like a modern day app. People are still going to buy your models by the bucketload AND if the hardcover lore/art/painting guides codex evolution were to be put on offer, they'd also get scooped up.
I recently got a 2nd edition and a 3rd edition Guard codex. I like how the lore is presented in the 2nd edition one and all the modelling ideas between both of them. Rules-wise, the datasheets in the 8th edition codex are easier to quickly read.
Being a Brit has its perks. One of them is having everything from Games Workshop at relatively cheaper prices because they’re based in Nottingham. Nowadays, thicc 9th edition Codices are averaging at around £30, Codex Supplements for Space Marines are about £17.50 from Ultras to Dark Angels and I suspect older 8th edition Codices are somewhere around the £20-25 mark.
if you want the full Necron history you should check out white dwarf 217 (it came with a free metal necron warrior mini) it has the first rules for using them as an army and some juicy lore! although there is the thought that the 'chaos android' from Space Crusade' was the first appearance of a Necron.
Just reinforcing the dark times of 7th. Personally I find flipping through a well organized physical bool way easier than an app but I also don't like massive phones or have a tablet. So being able to flip open a book is easier to handle and read. But I do collect codices for the art and fluff. That said I really love unit cards so I can just have a deck of rules.
On one hand, I wish they would end so gw could update rules and not leave factions waiting to be playable for half of an edition. On the other, I like having an actual book. Happy compromise would be to release rules online and release a book for those that want them later.
I would love for visual lore guides along a proper rules app. I would absolutely buy hardcover books with no rules, and honestly think if prefer it. give me more pictures & lore, and rules that actually update on an app. Just seems sensible really
What i really cannot understand as a returning player (stopped in 5th), my codex doesn't tell me what the points are, what equipment my units can take or what the rules are. With all the Erratas and Faq, white dwarf and rules changes through supplements, I have literally no idea how to build an army with legal equipment.
This made me miss the old Necron codices I used to have, so I ended up on eBay after this video and grabbed them all. Now to find that early White Dwarf from back when they where only warriors and I had my metal Necrons.
Conversely, it can be agonizing to have everything release at the beginning of an edition and your army sucks the for years without any hope of it getting better.
One of the parts of a codex I miss is an explanation of how the weapons in the codex function. In the first Adeptus Mechanicus codex (well, the Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus books) they went into detail regarding how the weapons functioned so you would know what nasty effect a Torsion Cannon had on it's target. They stripped that cool information out of the new Dex so you had to own the previous book to understand it. I wish if that sort of lore was left out of the Codex they would print a huge tome like the old 40k Wargear book to explain and describe the weapons of 40k. It would have to be a pretty huge book but pictures and flavour text on the weapons are important to me.
I just print stuff from Battlescribe and Wahapedia and throw it in a three ring binder organized so my friends and I can quickly play our games together.
Great video as always gentlemen! The app idea is a great alternative though I would miss the codexies (my first was 3rd edition Tyranid). Biggest problem is finding the rules when you want them. I've ended up making special rule cards for my blood bowl teams to prevent this.
Absolutely. Battletomes for AOS included. The physical copies of each book are fine as collectibles, but it’s ridiculous to have people keep buying when the actual rules within each book should be free.
An app or living pdf would be so much better. Something that could be updated as things change and new things are added. Having to get the codex, then multiple other books as new rules come out in this and that publication just sucks. I would gladly pay a reasonable subscription for a living digital codex or pdf.
Time to end the codex. Or at least give people a cheaper electronic option, the piles and piles of old codexs, rule books, faction books etc I have piled up is just plain wastefull
Ha! The logic of GW is so fun sometimes... Presents Necrons as one of the oldest civilizations in the galaxy... going all the way back to the War in Heaven... Gives them 5 Codices ... *whomp whomp*
I was intrigued by the videos premise and I actually agree with your final conclusion. Lore tomes would be torn from the shelves by collectors and lore enthusiasts. While the rules app (if supported properly) would be a massive hit with actual players. There already are a few apps that try to cover the rules in the the Codex's. My personal experience with them is that they are processor and memory heavy because of the bloated amount of rules in the current editions. I also have physical copies of all the Tyranid codex's and your video has inspired me to actually read through them all and compare them. Thanks for the great suggestion for a weekend activity. Will bother my friend I know has all the Dark Eldar Codex's and make him do the same. Will undoubtedly give us something to talk about for a while.
Maybe I'm old, but I like having the book in my hand. I use battle scribe, but I still tend to reach for my book to look something up, even when battle scribe is open on my phone. I would like them to do more online updates, but would be disappointed if they removed the rules from the codex
I love Codexes and collect them. I read them over and over again (or at least look at the pictures). That said, I'd definitely prefer something else that contains more pictures of community models and armies, along with lore and artwork. An annual for each faction would be pretty cool instead of a codex!
Paper codexes are on the way out. With GW forced to make game balance changes every six months I can see them going all digital. So long as they are cheaper than the paper alternative and updated with every errata and possibly a FAQ section added players will buy them
Nobody is forcing them, they just made this mess theirselves. 100% of the fantasy would be ok with notnneeding new rules every 5 months. If you think about whats been happening up untill now ALL changes they made revolver around making primaris more balanced. First they made primaris op to force people to trash astartes. Then they sheepishly made astartes just as tough while nerfing the power of the most broken primaris units ( aggressors) and THEN they started to tweak all other factions codexes to make sure everyone could still compete with marines which are 60% of the player base. They REALLY should've given all this attention to xenos
Codexs are dead, GW just has not come to terms with that. GW has this bad habit (from the end consumer POV) of releasing a new edition of the rule set, and then by the time the last codex has come out you are 3-6 months away from the next rule set release. Once the new rule set has been released you have to wait for your codex to be published for the army you have already collected. If you are lucky your favorite army will be among the first codexes to be published. From a marketing/sales perspective however, I understand why GW has operated this was for more then 20 years. So I do agree a low monthly subscription fee for all the rules/codex makes sense (as long as the rules are updated in a timely manner). It keeps the consumer happy by having rules at their fingertips. It helps the GW investors as they see a constant revenue stream without all the overhead and expenses that publishing a book and distributing it costs now days. As a bonus, they could sell a premium art/lore book as a limited edition print. My guess would be around the $80 - $120 range for this hard cover book(depending on page count). Printing enough to full fill the initial minimum print order + a few extra. With the option to print 2nd or 3rd editions of the same book based on initial sales.
You wanna know what the difference is between old and new codex? Back in 2002 they wanted you to begin playing. It was expensive, but not prohibitively so. And anything you had would be usable forever, even conversions. That's why the books teach you to build, paint, and play. But now, they already have a player base with millions of people, and several owning multiple armies. They know you need these things to play, and you're hooked enough on the game to pay the fees. So they do what they can to squeeze every penny out of you. Subscriptions are coming. You'll need to have one to play at shops and tournaments at this rate. Models will be cycled out and you'll be banned from using them because it's not the most recent version of Abaddon or Mortarion, for example. They already do it in some trading card games, like Pokémon. Every 2 years it gets reset. Feels like it's happening with Warhammer.
The lack of digital books really irks me! I'd even be willing to spend full price for the codex if I got the complete book as an ebook. But nope! Only bare bones datasheets. What the hell, games workshop?!
Great video and some really good points for GW to turn 40k to a live service type of style. It would be good to have a little bit of lore in each digital codex entry as well. I always think first and foremost it is the lore and look that really gets someone into an army. If you remove the huge paywall of a codex for each army, that can really encourage people to try out other factions too.
..... Huge pay wall? Uhhhh...every single codex is 25$ dude. Super cheap. Especially compared to the 50-65$ of Dungeons&Dragons books. And unless you play a specific Chapter of Space Marines ya' only need one codex. You trippin' bruh. I dropped 76$ and got the Ork Codex, the Space Marine Codex, anddd the Space Wolf Codex. Fuckin' niceee.
You said it best that new codices are a 'tax to continue playing the game.' I've saved a lot of money leaving GW as a hobbyist... PS: I had no idea you were a lesbian until I saw you wearing crocs! ;)
The Dark Eye (a pen and paper game) made a nice effort in 2015 with its 5th edition to make a public rule wiki where you could find every rule for free. But it is only rules and if you want background information and fluff you have to get their rulebooks. I think the idea is nice (the way they implemented still sucks and i prefer books) and i think thats the way forward. Get the books to build your background knowledge but use the (free and official) online ressources (if they would work good, argh) for your day to day play.
Hooray for DSA! The thing is, I’m pretty sure this wouldn‘t work with GW. Ulisses sells lots of rulebooks these days, but the main thing people are buying is fluff. This is why vademecums and adventures are so popular (ironically, the latter aren‘t exactly profitable for the publisher); they allow players to actually roleplay. The rules are just a basic framework that gives a group of players a chance to sensibly agree on power levels, possibilities and ultimately how to equally share time in the limelight. Since players all around Germany are still playing 4th, 3rd or even 1st edition, it becomes apparent that TDE/DSA is more than just a ruleset. 40k rules on the other hand give the players a reason to buy GW‘s main product: miniatures. There‘s a huge competitive scene, a multitude of people with a WAAC mindset, and they do very much care about the rules and their current power level. DSA‘s fluff can be used without its ruleset, be it for other PNP systems or for purely narrative play, in the same way the rules can be used for other universes. 40k, in contrast, just doesn‘t work that way, because it‘s a very different business model.
I don’t like the fact that GW releases codex supplements for space marines because I would rather have all of the rules for my marines in one book. I do use BattleScribe but still, having a book reference is nice.
this is something i think is missing from new codex books is lack of painting guides/ideas ... not everyone is an established player and these new first players could benefit from the guides. they have painting tips/demos in AOS battletomes and they are similar size or bigger (stormcast)
Hey Malifaux has an app where you can 1. Build Crews 2. Look at the rules and art for every model released for the edition 3. The rules themselves are always updated on the app. 4. Have a game where the app keeps the score. And it's for free. Just do that games workshop and have the codexes be lore books.
Really cool video! I've been going through past codices too, and I hope the new 9th edition drops are here to stay for a while. I really hope digital codices are the future of Warhammer, and maybe separate lore/picture books could be physical, as you said.
cant you buy the codicis digitaly? and some of us like to spend 30€ for the conviniance of get a book that will newer run out of baterys or get taken away from a estore. And if digital codesis are so importnant, there is way around them, chof choh Wh4p3d14.
@@wulmer8257 I like physical books too, but then again the rules get outdated so fast. I also feel as though I find myself bringing multiple books for one army, such as the supplements and whatnot. I mean, so long as the majority of people buy the codices and supplements as they do now, there's no real reason to change. Hardback books are cool anyways hehehehe
@@krazywizbiz2914 Maby thats a problem for some armies, I play on such a cassual basis that i only use one book + the core rulebook. but if you play spacemarines i can see how its anoying to buy space codex, and chapter supliment and maby psycic awakening?. I dont know is spacemarines have that. Tyranids whit i mainly play have it but I never boght it.
I got back in to wargaming at the tail end of 8th and at this point for 40k, I have 3 armies just sitting around I can't really use because I don't have their codices and I can't be bothered to toss down $150. :\ Way to incentivize, GW. Instead of selling them for a reasonable cost and then me spending more money on extra stuff for those three armies, I'm now just spending my money on other non-GW wargames and minis. Win for me I guess, but seems stupid on GW part. And anecdotally, I know a decent amount of other gamers in the same situation IRL and online.
@@gi1dor Why should I bother? I don't care about the whole copyright, legality thing of something like wahapedia. It's more why should I go out of my way to cobble together a work around for their stupid? This is a hobby that is supposed to be fun and I don't want to be even a tiny bit annoyed about. It's how I choose to spend my limited free time and spare cash. I can give both of those limited resources to other companies who don't have this problem and I don't have to think about it or work around it. It's really the point of it all. I'm not happy with how they do the whole codex system. If I still buy their models for 40k but get the rules outside of how they sell them, they're never going to change. Sure, one single person doesn't really make much of a difference for something like this, but I don't feel like adding to the problem.
Its like yes. Codexes are not Don Quixote Miguel De Cervantes, James Joyce Ulysses, Gabriel Garcia Marquez One Hundred Years of Solitude, Leo Tolstoy War and Peace, Fyodor Dostoyevsky Crime and Punishment books etc... Let's take pity on trees and buy in-app Codexes. The narrative of the story in the Warhammer universe can be read on the website. Lore on Wikipedia and on RUclips. How to draw on your channel. They might at least not print it in it.)
I’ve only been in the hobby for a few months. I’m a big reader. I only own one codex and it’s not even for the army I’m building. I don’t understand why they’re 40-60$. If they were $20 I’d have bought ones I didn’t even need just to see what I like, but when it’s like 50 a piece I don’t even want the ones I need.
i think that for £30 quid they arent worth it, if they took it in a more digital direction, like a download code for the app or something it would work a hell of a lot better, because you only buy it for datasheets or lore, the 2 things you could easily put and have already been put on the app, not to mention warhammer is expensive, so as players we want to cut down on cost as much as possible so we can get that 25 quid kit that is just going to sit on the shelf for a decade
That first codex is the one with which I discovered and played Necron. I loved the necrons in this one, they were a fearfull power. Then the second one arrived and it felt like a shadow of what they once were. I never know there were three or four after that.
I kept up with 40k for a couple of editions but I wasn't playing often enough to justify rebuying 100$+ dollars of rules each time there was a new edition. I'm not really that much of a lore junkie, and as you say the lore is pretty much the same edition to edition anyway, so I'm only really there for the rules.
That 2002 Necron Codex takes me back. That was my jam back in the day. Sadly though I got out of the hobby years ago and gave away my Necron army to the neighbor kids.
Some armies are more expensive than others as well. What I mean is, if you are playing space marines you have to buy the base codex. Then if you decide to play a specific chapter you have to get that as well. So if you wanted to play Death Watch that’s $80 in books before you even think about models.
I really dislike "digital everything". Thats why I chose to switch hobbies From video games to modeling and wargaming. That said, 50$ rule books every couple years just so they can errata a few rules move the text in the book around a bit is B.S. I say buy the models, if you want to buy all the rules go for it, if not there are many rule sets that are cheap or even free like one page rules. You should only need to buy a 50$ book to play a game once.
I went through the Tau codexes recently and the 4th edition one from 2008 is by far my favorite. It's not laid out quite the same as the 2011 Necrons codex (which seems to be closer to how 6th edition codexes were laid out) since it only lists the units once and is about the same length as the 4rd edition one. The pictures section isn't nearly as helpful as the 3rd edition codexes but it still has some info detailing markings and specific weapons, and shows specific paints to achieve the look of a certain faction. And rule-wise at least for Tau I think it was the most solid and coherent codex we've gotten (maybe 9th is ok in this category too, but 9th is its own can of worms anyway).
Some major restructuring needs to be done. Maybe a book/magazine style subscription would work, or maybe they could just release 1 mega codex every year with no codex creep. Both options solves the issue of the unpopular codexs not selling and the risk tax adding to the price.
Subscription is a horrible idea I wouldn't do it , there rules should be way more accessible I would rather see them do what Malifaux does put all the rules in one book per expansion and release a companion app which also has all the rules for a one time fee .
Do as CB, rules and army builder linked to wiki, so you can see what the rules do if you don´t know and it is all free you can buy the rules in books, but that it more for the lore you get them
If GW did that I would come back to their games. The Infinity Wiki and Army Builder are so useful and lets you understand armies without needing to spend money on a book just to decide if a unit is worth it or not. When I was younger I enjoyed reading GW codexes but now they are so expensive! I believe the 5th edition codexes were about $33, but it looks like retail for the newest codexes are $50. I think codexes led to lots of "gotcha moments" because there are so many special rules you wouldn't know about without having access to your opponents codex, a little annoying.
@@williamw704 I gave up on GW codex after the day one DLC for 5th ed Dark angels, making my codex be full of papers day one (Monday after I got it on the Saturday)
I want GW to sell patch STICKERS that are labelled (codex blah, page13, para 4) and perfect 1:1 overlays . So every time the rules change i can stick like a "panini sticker album sticker" sticker over my rule book. That way I can stay up to date. I hate using a phone at the gaming table. It's lame. I'd pay a small subscription for this, say £3 a month per codex. Whether or not they updated anything, so that when they do I get the stickers automatically. I'm not kidding
Part of getting back to table top gaming was to get away from screens. I like the old school approach. That said I have to admit I am liking the ease of list building in apps, though that is far from perfect.
For all my current armys I would need 19! rulebooks and supplements every edition - not included the corerules or Killteam. I will skip 9th with most of them and hope we will get digital ones soon so I can use a tablet and get the codex updates there instead of writing them all in the books by hand.
I love codexes! They're fun to read if you don't even play. It's nice to have rules and lore to the army you like as an actual object you can hold and sell.
Honestly, the codex approach has been bullshit for years now. They should mass update the base, keep it up to date via FAQs and errata, and then do their campaign book things (Vigilus, Charadon, PA, etc.) that add additions for those factions, similar to how Warmahordes would have campaign books that did updates for multiple factions as things went, rather than this neverending cycle of release books over a 2 year period, then bring a new edition and start over again with it. It's a really outdated way of doing it, and just pisses people off when they are waiting a long time for a codex while Marines/Imperium get several in a row, but GW's priorities there have always been backward since to them it's "Not selling? Ignore it more" rather than "Not selling? Find out why and fix it". Having been involved in GW games since 1995, it was bullshit then and it's bullshit now.
I think moving towards the codexes and the rules being effectively only printed as collectors hardback books is probably the best way forward. Put all the rules in the app, make all the core rules free on it and the subscription unlocking the codex in the app along with a better list build system etc. Though personally I'd much prefer one games workshop app that covered all games and you just select what one you want. The minis are what makes them money, though the starter boxes probably do too. At tournaments, the tables could have a couple of tablets with the app set up on so no need to lug piles of books around either. Maybe a tournament specific subscription type that unlocked extra features they'd be more likely to want such as chapter approved etc. The other app benefits of course are of course that the rules will always be up to date with no need to have the latest faq update with you etc.
It isnt worth buying these codexes for rules either since they get errata'ed and FAQ'ed and i have no intention of also keeping around a piece of paper to my piece of paper to remind me what the rule/unit is actually supposed to have there. Having all rules digitally and being able to look them up with a single keyword is the way to go, everything else is just an antiquated cashgrab.
Great video! I really liked the in-depth look at each codex and seeing how things changed over time. I probably wouldn't have actively noticed some of the things you mentioned but looking back I can definitely see that they subtly impacted my perceptions of the codexes. I personally feel like painting and modeling advice in the codex itself is less necessary with the rise of WarhammerTV and all the youtube creators, but that's also likely because I didn't have that "one-stop-shop" experience with codexes in the first place. It might have been nice to have some glossy pages dedicated to painting on hand to quickly reference as a new painter!
I actually just recently began playing Necrons after returning to 40k from a long break. I love the 'Destroyer Cult' units and am working on building an army based around them.
I'm not a gamer. At all. I just live having the books for the lore. Have the rules for all factions in one book, then a lore book for each faction for those that want it.
Hey there! Nice Vid, but one thing must be corrected: The lore in fact did change a lot for the necrons. In the first codex, the c`tan were the masters of the enslaved necron race. Only later did GW switch that around. Otherwise fun watch :) thanks
Could 40k not transition into how AoS deal with rules? The rules for all models and the "basics" are free and can be found on the AoS app. The codex would then work to add extra rules, different ways to play the army, lore, art or even just a collection piece for those who wish to buy it. Thinking about this as a new player (which I am), why not make the game more accessible for beginners, and then add the Codex as a sort of progression, or an optional purchase for those who wish to do so?
i like to imagine that jay is always standing when he records
Is... is Jay not standing when he records?
Such a healthy behavior it is
Are you making fun of short people? Because this was low effort. /*snicker*
Lols 😂
I think the rules are better released at the same time for all armies, to prevent power creep. Adding new units, then create something for everyone and release it at the same time. The lore can be combined into a single tome that will still sell, but only to people that actually want it.
That would be ideal I agree, but logistically that's pretty much impossible. GW would need to hire a lot more employees for that, and then lay them off for years until they rerelease every codex at once again. Logistically, it makes more sense to have a smaller team releasing books regularly to have a steady source of income instead.
The way I'd do it is conceptually split 40k into 3 major factions; Imperial, Chaos and Xenos.
Each of those major factions is further split into 5 divisions, with each of those divisions having a codex.
For example the Chaos faction would have a codex for each of the Chaos gods and a generic one, so; Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch and a codex for undivided/ unaligned.
The Xenos faction would have a codex book for each of the major alien races; Eldar, Orcs, Tyranids, Necrons and Tau.
The Imperial faction would have a codex for both of the major armies and 3 books for specialists, so; Space Marines & Imperial Guard and 3 more codexes covering the specialist groups like Sororitas, Mechanicus, Rogue traders, Inquisition, Grey knights etc.
(for a total of 15 CODEX BOOKS, 5 for each faction)
Each Codex covers 3 related armies within it, such as the Khorne codex would cover; Khorne chaos marines, Khorne daemons and Khorne cults while the Eldar codex would cover; Aeldari, Drukhari & Exodites. These codexes are generalised to give an overview of that race, chaos view or imperial focus but each army within that could still be played on its own. Such as you could play just Khorne daemons as there is a Khorne daemon unit in each section of force organisation chart for that or just Khorne Cultists or you could play as a mixture of both. (for a total of 45 armies covered. 3 armies in each of the 15 codexes)
For those that want to go even more precise rules, background & models for specific armies like 'World Eaters' or 'Death Corps of Krieg' are found on the GW website (download/ app).
With that in mind TWO CODEXES ARE ALWAYS RELEASED TOGETHER, each from a different faction.
So the Space marine codex (imperial) could be released with the Nurgle Codex (chaos), while the Slaanesh codex (chaos) might be released with the Eldar codex (xenos) and the Tau with Imperial Guard and so forth around the circle...
That way you are reducing production & marketing costs while releasing 6 balanced armies simultaneously (3 armies in each codex & 2 codexes at a time) and giving equal attention to each faction/ army. With that you would have some appropriate scenery released along with each codex and each codex of course would have a 'start collecting' box.
When a new 40k Edition comes out the release order of which codex comes out with what other codex gets changed, and the box-set for that edition is of the first 2 codexes for that edition. So the 10th edition box-set could have Tzeentch Vs Necrons, while 11th edition box-set be the Imperial guard Vs Orcs.
That edition would be themed to the box-set of that edition, so while in 11th edition every codex would be released (along with miniatures, terrain and rules for each army contained within those codexes) 11th edition as a whole would have a strong Imperial guard & Orc theme. While the previous 10th edition would have a had a strong Tzeentch & Necron theme in its stories, art and advertising. That way over the course of releases you are building up atmosphere and depth while adding to the library of usable material.
.
The idea is to streamline, make it more fair & balanced while easier for marketing and sales. Yet it doesn't remove or restrict anything...the deeper or more army/ lore specific you go into 40k the more you are directed to downloads and made to order, while the generic stuff (the codex scale) is easy to find and used to bring in new customers.
@@helline9 This is such a great idea
Codex creep is precisely how they sell more models.
That would require them having everything they're planning to release both read at edition launches and in the codex with little or no ability to build hype, which will make their marketing department rather unhappy. But, ideally yes.
If they moved to purely digital via the app it becomes a lot more viable as they just have to launch and announce what is ready and add new items as models launch later allowing the marketing department to get their hype train going too (sadly a important thing with the way investments work these days).
I think you’re right about how codexes should shift more to lore and art books. If you’re just looking for looking for the rules for your faction you can just find them online.
Oh man something about Jay has been bothering me for a while. I couldn't ever define it it was just a feeling, but now it is revealed. he wears Crocs...
2nd edition codexes were the absolute pinnacle for codexes.
Rich with lore to inspire whatever army you choose to build.
My 2nd edition guard codex is still my favorite
I read my 2nd Tyranid codex often. The artwork style is really cool too.
Always the most catchy titles, but the most gentle way to deal with the subject matter. Great spirit!
That first codex is probably 40k’s best ever version of Lovecraftian horror, which tied in nearly with how the early versions of Necron lore mirrored the expanding nature of the models by showing them as a largely unknown force slowly awakening into the 41st millennium.
A living pdf with all the rules that they can just update all at once makes so much more sense
That makes more sense if your goal is to improve your players' experience. If you're out to fleece people for every last dime you can get however...
It would not be a pdf, more likely only on the app via subscription I expect. Much easier for them to control.
With the Codex being outdated usually the same day it comes out, I find it increasingly hard to justify buying physical copies other than from a collector's standpoint. Then again, the 9E Codexes are pretty light on lore and interesting stuff compared to 8E ones so...
As a newbie to wargaming, the codex approach is the most offputting thing to me. Spending on models or equipment is all good but spending my limited budget on books is just not something i am willing to do especially with no guarantee of shelf life.
Agreed, I just use online resources. The price of these books is a lot too. Considering the price of models and stuff, all the rules for everything should be online for free. A lot of companies do this, and it makes it a lot easier for people to get into the game. Maybe just publish the codex's for lore, physical copy of rules, and army painting guide. If anything a smaller and cheaper softcover version of these books with just rules would be great as well.
They need to just do an online database like dnd beyond. That way they can actually put out consistent and proper updates the fact that they stick to this system shows how anti consumer gw really is
Faction rules should have never crossed the 20 dollar barrier, 40 dollars is pushing it and now if you want to play a specific faction it can be 70 dollars or more. At this point the core factions should be made available free, and everything else is supplemental can be 10 - 20 dollars.
I just got into Warhammer 40k in November 2020. I immediately feel in love with the models and the gameplay. Then I hit a wall because all the rules, datasheets and gameplay options are not immediately available online. I purchased the 9th edition Necron codex and I can say without a doubt that while I am definitely going to get into other factions I will never buy another codex. Aside from the obvious greed factor hard copy codexes are simply not even close to the most efficient/effective ways to govern this game. I'm saying this as an adult with disposable income, forcing people to buy these shitty codexes is costing GW money in the long run. It made me less enthusiastic about playing a game that seems to be administered by a company that openly disrespects it's customer base. I spent a significant amount of money building a necron army from Nov-Mar. If all the rules and datasheets were online I would have spent double on building another faction. Lastly, if I didn't have to spend 50$ on a codex I would have just spent it on more models anyways.
I always get so suprised on how expensive warhammer is in america. here in europe, a codex cost like 33$ or 29€...
@@wulmer8257 Seriously lol Im jealous now, I live in nz, and its expensive as heck but I still love my minis -_-
so dont tell anyone but Wahapedia is where its at
The codex model as a way to deliver rules has been bad since the early 2000s. Pdfs or a living document are in general better, but then they couldn't sell people balance updates.
This is the shit that kills me, after a month my codex is fucking useless.
I personally prefer codecies because I like reading rules from a hardcover paper book
Same here :)
I enjoyed the pause between Myke and Hunt lol
Nice!
But being an old player, it is my duty as Ancient of Rites to add another codex to the list.
It is not a true codex in and of itself, but it was the first iteration of the rules/bg for the dreaded NECRON RAIDERS, who appeared in a White Dwarf in the later 90'.
The models were few and ugly AF: much more skeletal looking and hunched.
The Lord looked like a robo-wizard.
The warrior's Gauss Flayer was a sort of sci-fi jackhammer, same goes for the immortal.
The scarabs were what you would get if you'd try to draw a fly only using straight lines.
The destroyers looked like flying go-cart with a murder robot on top.
I have this weird feeling you would love it.
I could wrestle with the pile of old magazine I have in the basement to send it to you, but it would be in italian.
When I first got into 40K, I loved the idea of codexs. But then I soon found out about FAQs and Errata, and I thought... "why don't they just have this as an app?" as much as I love the books, having an app that can have passages updated live like patch notes / code for a video game makes so much more sense in this day and age. Oh the 40K app exists, but doesn't have this functionality? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa????????????????????????????????????????????????
Battle scribe does that stuff for the unit rules at least
@@Sh-kl8gy and the fact that they haven't hired the battlescribe guys to develop their own app is seriously beyond me. Although they've got the Astartes guy now ... so maybe the future holds hope?
I agree so much! When I first got into Warhammer I was shocked at how normalized misprints, faqs, and erratas were. Like how does anyone keep things straight??
@@jaiar12 Part of me initially wanted to physically cut and paste the faq/errata into my codex, but I just stopped myself because this is a weird, esoteric thing that shouldn't really be handled by the player / customer. I think Jay's suggestion towards the end is a much healthier win-win for players and GW. Up the subscription cost, but for god's sake update the thing so it behaves like a modern day app. People are still going to buy your models by the bucketload AND if the hardcover lore/art/painting guides codex evolution were to be put on offer, they'd also get scooped up.
Because cash
I recently got a 2nd edition and a 3rd edition Guard codex. I like how the lore is presented in the 2nd edition one and all the modelling ideas between both of them. Rules-wise, the datasheets in the 8th edition codex are easier to quickly read.
all codices should be released en masse at the beginning of an edition with the option to pay like $5 or $10 for the digital version
I liked the killteam thing of releasing everyone's rules in 2 book and then pariah nexus sorta screwed that up
Being a Brit has its perks. One of them is having everything from Games Workshop at relatively cheaper prices because they’re based in Nottingham. Nowadays, thicc 9th edition Codices are averaging at around £30, Codex Supplements for Space Marines are about £17.50 from Ultras to Dark Angels and I suspect older 8th edition Codices are somewhere around the £20-25 mark.
if you want the full Necron history you should check out white dwarf 217 (it came with a free metal necron warrior mini) it has the first rules for using them as an army and some juicy lore! although there is the thought that the 'chaos android' from Space Crusade' was the first appearance of a Necron.
Just reinforcing the dark times of 7th. Personally I find flipping through a well organized physical bool way easier than an app but I also don't like massive phones or have a tablet. So being able to flip open a book is easier to handle and read. But I do collect codices for the art and fluff.
That said I really love unit cards so I can just have a deck of rules.
That sniff at 4:47 made me jump! Thanks for the trip down nostalgia lane!
Starting with Warmachine, I am so damn happy to have unit stats, Base rules, faction boni and scenario rules available for Free!
On one hand, I wish they would end so gw could update rules and not leave factions waiting to be playable for half of an edition. On the other, I like having an actual book. Happy compromise would be to release rules online and release a book for those that want them later.
I would love for visual lore guides along a proper rules app. I would absolutely buy hardcover books with no rules, and honestly think if prefer it. give me more pictures & lore, and rules that actually update on an app. Just seems sensible really
What i really cannot understand as a returning player (stopped in 5th), my codex doesn't tell me what the points are, what equipment my units can take or what the rules are. With all the Erratas and Faq, white dwarf and rules changes through supplements, I have literally no idea how to build an army with legal equipment.
Battlescribe
This made me miss the old Necron codices I used to have, so I ended up on eBay after this video and grabbed them all. Now to find that early White Dwarf from back when they where only warriors and I had my metal Necrons.
End codex they also delay the rules for each faction to a point where some faction are not good at all in 9th edition
Conversely, it can be agonizing to have everything release at the beginning of an edition and your army sucks the for years without any hope of it getting better.
One of the parts of a codex I miss is an explanation of how the weapons in the codex function. In the first Adeptus Mechanicus codex (well, the Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus books) they went into detail regarding how the weapons functioned so you would know what nasty effect a Torsion Cannon had on it's target. They stripped that cool information out of the new Dex so you had to own the previous book to understand it. I wish if that sort of lore was left out of the Codex they would print a huge tome like the old 40k Wargear book to explain and describe the weapons of 40k. It would have to be a pretty huge book but pictures and flavour text on the weapons are important to me.
9th ed codex has a short explanation of Gauss, Tesla and Doom weapons
"It's just an expensive bit of paper."
*Nervous MTG sweats*
I just print stuff from Battlescribe and Wahapedia and throw it in a three ring binder organized so my friends and I can quickly play our games together.
Codexes should be an option for collectors (and maybe new players), but for he rest of us, the rules bit should be free.
Great video as always gentlemen! The app idea is a great alternative though I would miss the codexies (my first was 3rd edition Tyranid). Biggest problem is finding the rules when you want them. I've ended up making special rule cards for my blood bowl teams to prevent this.
That timelaps though. Excelent
Absolutely. Battletomes for AOS included. The physical copies of each book are fine as collectibles, but it’s ridiculous to have people keep buying when the actual rules within each book should be free.
An app or living pdf would be so much better. Something that could be updated as things change and new things are added. Having to get the codex, then multiple other books as new rules come out in this and that publication just sucks. I would gladly pay a reasonable subscription for a living digital codex or pdf.
Time to end the codex. Or at least give people a cheaper electronic option, the piles and piles of old codexs, rule books, faction books etc I have piled up is just plain wastefull
Ha! The logic of GW is so fun sometimes... Presents Necrons as one of the oldest civilizations in the galaxy... going all the way back to the War in Heaven... Gives them 5 Codices ... *whomp whomp*
I was intrigued by the videos premise and I actually agree with your final conclusion. Lore tomes would be torn from the shelves by collectors and lore enthusiasts. While the rules app (if supported properly) would be a massive hit with actual players. There already are a few apps that try to cover the rules in the the Codex's. My personal experience with them is that they are processor and memory heavy because of the bloated amount of rules in the current editions.
I also have physical copies of all the Tyranid codex's and your video has inspired me to actually read through them all and compare them. Thanks for the great suggestion for a weekend activity. Will bother my friend I know has all the Dark Eldar Codex's and make him do the same. Will undoubtedly give us something to talk about for a while.
Maybe I'm old, but I like having the book in my hand. I use battle scribe, but I still tend to reach for my book to look something up, even when battle scribe is open on my phone. I would like them to do more online updates, but would be disappointed if they removed the rules from the codex
I love Codexes and collect them. I read them over and over again (or at least look at the pictures). That said, I'd definitely prefer something else that contains more pictures of community models and armies, along with lore and artwork. An annual for each faction would be pretty cool instead of a codex!
Paper codexes are on the way out. With GW forced to make game balance changes every six months I can see them going all digital. So long as they are cheaper than the paper alternative and updated with every errata and possibly a FAQ section added players will buy them
Nobody is forcing them, they just made this mess theirselves. 100% of the fantasy would be ok with notnneeding new rules every 5 months.
If you think about whats been happening up untill now ALL changes they made revolver around making primaris more balanced.
First they made primaris op to force people to trash astartes. Then they sheepishly made astartes just as tough while nerfing the power of the most broken primaris units ( aggressors) and THEN they started to tweak all other factions codexes to make sure everyone could still compete with marines which are 60% of the player base.
They REALLY should've given all this attention to xenos
Alright now let’s review all Custodes books…
*slaps a single book on the table* there
Codexs are dead, GW just has not come to terms with that.
GW has this bad habit (from the end consumer POV) of releasing a new edition of the rule set, and then by the time the last codex has come out you are 3-6 months away from the next rule set release.
Once the new rule set has been released you have to wait for your codex to be published for the army you have already collected.
If you are lucky your favorite army will be among the first codexes to be published.
From a marketing/sales perspective however, I understand why GW has operated this was for more then 20 years.
So I do agree a low monthly subscription fee for all the rules/codex makes sense (as long as the rules are updated in a timely manner).
It keeps the consumer happy by having rules at their fingertips.
It helps the GW investors as they see a constant revenue stream without all the overhead and expenses that publishing a book and distributing it costs now days.
As a bonus, they could sell a premium art/lore book as a limited edition print.
My guess would be around the $80 - $120 range for this hard cover book(depending on page count).
Printing enough to full fill the initial minimum print order + a few extra.
With the option to print 2nd or 3rd editions of the same book based on initial sales.
You wanna know what the difference is between old and new codex? Back in 2002 they wanted you to begin playing. It was expensive, but not prohibitively so. And anything you had would be usable forever, even conversions. That's why the books teach you to build, paint, and play.
But now, they already have a player base with millions of people, and several owning multiple armies. They know you need these things to play, and you're hooked enough on the game to pay the fees. So they do what they can to squeeze every penny out of you.
Subscriptions are coming. You'll need to have one to play at shops and tournaments at this rate. Models will be cycled out and you'll be banned from using them because it's not the most recent version of Abaddon or Mortarion, for example. They already do it in some trading card games, like Pokémon. Every 2 years it gets reset. Feels like it's happening with Warhammer.
The lack of digital books really irks me! I'd even be willing to spend full price for the codex if I got the complete book as an ebook. But nope! Only bare bones datasheets.
What the hell, games workshop?!
Ok,...I subscribed. Glad I ran across your channel! Great content, and super useful. All the best!
One rule book. Book. One. One Codex per army. One. Book. And these also as apps for people who prefer those. Per 5 or 6 years.
I really miss the modeling and painting tips in the newer codex, but I think they save that for White Dwarf and the app now days.
Do you need that with the internet though?
@@matan8074 shame as they Still do that for aos
I had to pause the video in the middle of that time lapse and brew some herbal tea. Way too intense!
Great video and some really good points for GW to turn 40k to a live service type of style. It would be good to have a little bit of lore in each digital codex entry as well. I always think first and foremost it is the lore and look that really gets someone into an army. If you remove the huge paywall of a codex for each army, that can really encourage people to try out other factions too.
.....
Huge pay wall? Uhhhh...every single codex is 25$ dude. Super cheap. Especially compared to the 50-65$ of Dungeons&Dragons books. And unless you play a specific Chapter of Space Marines ya' only need one codex. You trippin' bruh. I dropped 76$ and got the Ork Codex, the Space Marine Codex, anddd the Space Wolf Codex. Fuckin' niceee.
I could literally smell the pages when they were flipped
You said it best that new codices are a 'tax to continue playing the game.' I've saved a lot of money leaving GW as a hobbyist... PS: I had no idea you were a lesbian until I saw you wearing crocs! ;)
The Dark Eye (a pen and paper game) made a nice effort in 2015 with its 5th edition to make a public rule wiki where you could find every rule for free. But it is only rules and if you want background information and fluff you have to get their rulebooks. I think the idea is nice (the way they implemented still sucks and i prefer books) and i think thats the way forward. Get the books to build your background knowledge but use the (free and official) online ressources (if they would work good, argh) for your day to day play.
Hooray for DSA! The thing is, I’m pretty sure this wouldn‘t work with GW. Ulisses sells lots of rulebooks these days, but the main thing people are buying is fluff. This is why vademecums and adventures are so popular (ironically, the latter aren‘t exactly profitable for the publisher); they allow players to actually roleplay. The rules are just a basic framework that gives a group of players a chance to sensibly agree on power levels, possibilities and ultimately how to equally share time in the limelight. Since players all around Germany are still playing 4th, 3rd or even 1st edition, it becomes apparent that TDE/DSA is more than just a ruleset. 40k rules on the other hand give the players a reason to buy GW‘s main product: miniatures. There‘s a huge competitive scene, a multitude of people with a WAAC mindset, and they do very much care about the rules and their current power level. DSA‘s fluff can be used without its ruleset, be it for other PNP systems or for purely narrative play, in the same way the rules can be used for other universes. 40k, in contrast, just doesn‘t work that way, because it‘s a very different business model.
I don’t like the fact that GW releases codex supplements for space marines because I would rather have all of the rules for my marines in one book. I do use BattleScribe but still, having a book reference is nice.
this is something i think is missing from new codex books is lack of painting guides/ideas ... not everyone is an established player and these new first players could benefit from the guides. they have painting tips/demos in AOS battletomes and they are similar size or bigger (stormcast)
16:44 ah man, that codex army lists from 2nd edition. takes me back.
I always go back to look at the 2nd and 3rd edition codexes, especially 2nd. I don't think I will be saying that about many of the others.
Hey Malifaux has an app where you can 1. Build Crews 2. Look at the rules and art for every model released for the edition 3. The rules themselves are always updated on the app. 4. Have a game where the app keeps the score. And it's for free. Just do that games workshop and have the codexes be lore books.
Really cool video! I've been going through past codices too, and I hope the new 9th edition drops are here to stay for a while. I really hope digital codices are the future of Warhammer, and maybe separate lore/picture books could be physical, as you said.
cant you buy the codicis digitaly? and some of us like to spend 30€ for the conviniance of get a book that will newer run out of baterys or get taken away from a estore. And if digital codesis are so importnant, there is way around them, chof choh Wh4p3d14.
@@wulmer8257
I like physical books too, but then again the rules get outdated so fast. I also feel as though I find myself bringing multiple books for one army, such as the supplements and whatnot.
I mean, so long as the majority of people buy the codices and supplements as they do now, there's no real reason to change. Hardback books are cool anyways hehehehe
@@krazywizbiz2914 Maby thats a problem for some armies, I play on such a cassual basis that i only use one book + the core rulebook. but if you play spacemarines i can see how its anoying to buy space codex, and chapter supliment and maby psycic awakening?. I dont know is spacemarines have that. Tyranids whit i mainly play have it but I never boght it.
I got back in to wargaming at the tail end of 8th and at this point for 40k, I have 3 armies just sitting around I can't really use because I don't have their codices and I can't be bothered to toss down $150. :\
Way to incentivize, GW. Instead of selling them for a reasonable cost and then me spending more money on extra stuff for those three armies, I'm now just spending my money on other non-GW wargames and minis. Win for me I guess, but seems stupid on GW part. And anecdotally, I know a decent amount of other gamers in the same situation IRL and online.
Just use wahapedia, really, I don't see any problem with it if you just need rules (for points you also can use battlescribe), you even can print it
@@gi1dor Why should I bother? I don't care about the whole copyright, legality thing of something like wahapedia. It's more why should I go out of my way to cobble together a work around for their stupid? This is a hobby that is supposed to be fun and I don't want to be even a tiny bit annoyed about. It's how I choose to spend my limited free time and spare cash. I can give both of those limited resources to other companies who don't have this problem and I don't have to think about it or work around it.
It's really the point of it all. I'm not happy with how they do the whole codex system. If I still buy their models for 40k but get the rules outside of how they sell them, they're never going to change. Sure, one single person doesn't really make much of a difference for something like this, but I don't feel like adding to the problem.
Its like yes. Codexes are not Don Quixote Miguel De Cervantes, James Joyce Ulysses, Gabriel Garcia Marquez One Hundred Years of Solitude, Leo Tolstoy War and Peace, Fyodor Dostoyevsky Crime and Punishment books etc... Let's take pity on trees and buy in-app Codexes. The narrative of the story in the Warhammer universe can be read on the website. Lore on Wikipedia and on RUclips. How to draw on your channel. They might at least not print it in it.)
I’ve only been in the hobby for a few months. I’m a big reader. I only own one codex and it’s not even for the army I’m building. I don’t understand why they’re 40-60$. If they were $20 I’d have bought ones I didn’t even need just to see what I like, but when it’s like 50 a piece I don’t even want the ones I need.
i think that for £30 quid they arent worth it, if they took it in a more digital direction, like a download code for the app or something it would work a hell of a lot better, because you only buy it for datasheets or lore, the 2 things you could easily put and have already been put on the app, not to mention warhammer is expensive, so as players we want to cut down on cost as much as possible so we can get that 25 quid kit that is just going to sit on the shelf for a decade
For me, I prefer to have a physical book in my hand. I have always loved new books and such.
Its CODICES...not codexes. Codexes isn't an actual word.
I want that third book just for that glorious art
That first codex is the one with which I discovered and played Necron. I loved the necrons in this one, they were a fearfull power. Then the second one arrived and it felt like a shadow of what they once were. I never know there were three or four after that.
And the necron warriors had small plastic green transparent parts for the gun, it was the best thing ever !!
I kept up with 40k for a couple of editions but I wasn't playing often enough to justify rebuying 100$+ dollars of rules each time there was a new edition. I'm not really that much of a lore junkie, and as you say the lore is pretty much the same edition to edition anyway, so I'm only really there for the rules.
That 2002 Necron Codex takes me back. That was my jam back in the day. Sadly though I got out of the hobby years ago and gave away my Necron army to the neighbor kids.
Some armies are more expensive than others as well. What I mean is, if you are playing space marines you have to buy the base codex. Then if you decide to play a specific chapter you have to get that as well. So if you wanted to play Death Watch that’s $80 in books before you even think about models.
I really dislike "digital everything". Thats why I chose to switch hobbies
From video games to modeling and wargaming.
That said, 50$ rule books every couple years just so they can errata a few rules move the text in the book around a bit is B.S.
I say buy the models, if you want to buy all the rules go for it, if not there are many rule sets that are cheap or even free like one page rules.
You should only need to buy a 50$ book to play a game once.
10:22 Many of those illustrations were only re-colourized, that necron-ultramarine piece has been around for a long time and was originally coloured.
I went through the Tau codexes recently and the 4th edition one from 2008 is by far my favorite.
It's not laid out quite the same as the 2011 Necrons codex (which seems to be closer to how 6th edition codexes were laid out) since it only lists the units once and is about the same length as the 4rd edition one. The pictures section isn't nearly as helpful as the 3rd edition codexes but it still has some info detailing markings and specific weapons, and shows specific paints to achieve the look of a certain faction.
And rule-wise at least for Tau I think it was the most solid and coherent codex we've gotten (maybe 9th is ok in this category too, but 9th is its own can of worms anyway).
Some major restructuring needs to be done. Maybe a book/magazine style subscription would work, or maybe they could just release 1 mega codex every year with no codex creep. Both options solves the issue of the unpopular codexs not selling and the risk tax adding to the price.
2:11
The only codex I have ever owned.
Too bad I lost it somewhere ;-;
That artwork is just god tier.
Subscription is a horrible idea I wouldn't do it , there rules should be way more accessible I would rather see them do what Malifaux does put all the rules in one book per expansion and release a companion app which also has all the rules for a one time fee .
Do as CB, rules and army builder linked to wiki, so you can see what the rules do if you don´t know
and it is all free
you can buy the rules in books, but that it more for the lore you get them
If GW did that I would come back to their games. The Infinity Wiki and Army Builder are so useful and lets you understand armies without needing to spend money on a book just to decide if a unit is worth it or not. When I was younger I enjoyed reading GW codexes but now they are so expensive! I believe the 5th edition codexes were about $33, but it looks like retail for the newest codexes are $50.
I think codexes led to lots of "gotcha moments" because there are so many special rules you wouldn't know about without having access to your opponents codex, a little annoying.
@@williamw704 I gave up on GW codex after the day one DLC for 5th ed Dark angels, making my codex be full of papers day one (Monday after I got it on the Saturday)
Warmachine has an excellent app that does everything
The time lapse was worth the entire video. :)
I want GW to sell patch STICKERS that are labelled (codex blah, page13, para 4) and perfect 1:1 overlays . So every time the rules change i can stick like a "panini sticker album sticker" sticker over my rule book. That way I can stay up to date. I hate using a phone at the gaming table. It's lame.
I'd pay a small subscription for this, say £3 a month per codex. Whether or not they updated anything, so that when they do I get the stickers automatically. I'm not kidding
Part of getting back to table top gaming was to get away from screens. I like the old school approach. That said I have to admit I am liking the ease of list building in apps, though that is far from perfect.
For all my current armys I would need 19! rulebooks and supplements every edition - not included the corerules or Killteam. I will skip 9th with most of them and hope we will get digital ones soon so I can use a tablet and get the codex updates there instead of writing them all in the books by hand.
We have digital rules, on wahapedia.
You NEED to play One Page Rules 'Grimdark Future' - it will reinvigorate you into pushing your Necrons around on the table!
I love codexes! They're fun to read if you don't even play. It's nice to have rules and lore to the army you like as an actual object you can hold and sell.
Honestly, the codex approach has been bullshit for years now. They should mass update the base, keep it up to date via FAQs and errata, and then do their campaign book things (Vigilus, Charadon, PA, etc.) that add additions for those factions, similar to how Warmahordes would have campaign books that did updates for multiple factions as things went, rather than this neverending cycle of release books over a 2 year period, then bring a new edition and start over again with it. It's a really outdated way of doing it, and just pisses people off when they are waiting a long time for a codex while Marines/Imperium get several in a row, but GW's priorities there have always been backward since to them it's "Not selling? Ignore it more" rather than "Not selling? Find out why and fix it".
Having been involved in GW games since 1995, it was bullshit then and it's bullshit now.
Calling 2002 Vintage makes me feel old.
I think moving towards the codexes and the rules being effectively only printed as collectors hardback books is probably the best way forward. Put all the rules in the app, make all the core rules free on it and the subscription unlocking the codex in the app along with a better list build system etc.
Though personally I'd much prefer one games workshop app that covered all games and you just select what one you want. The minis are what makes them money, though the starter boxes probably do too.
At tournaments, the tables could have a couple of tablets with the app set up on so no need to lug piles of books around either. Maybe a tournament specific subscription type that unlocked extra features they'd be more likely to want such as chapter approved etc.
The other app benefits of course are of course that the rules will always be up to date with no need to have the latest faq update with you etc.
It isnt worth buying these codexes for rules either since they get errata'ed and FAQ'ed and i have no intention of also keeping around a piece of paper to my piece of paper to remind me what the rule/unit is actually supposed to have there.
Having all rules digitally and being able to look them up with a single keyword is the way to go, everything else is just an antiquated cashgrab.
I got the Ork 8th, never even opened it before 9th Ed. dropped. Now we have no clue when the 9th Codex comes out. So yes to me they suck.
Great video! I really liked the in-depth look at each codex and seeing how things changed over time. I probably wouldn't have actively noticed some of the things you mentioned but looking back I can definitely see that they subtly impacted my perceptions of the codexes. I personally feel like painting and modeling advice in the codex itself is less necessary with the rise of WarhammerTV and all the youtube creators, but that's also likely because I didn't have that "one-stop-shop" experience with codexes in the first place. It might have been nice to have some glossy pages dedicated to painting on hand to quickly reference as a new painter!
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I actually just recently began playing Necrons after returning to 40k from a long break. I love the 'Destroyer Cult' units and am working on building an army based around them.
I'm not a gamer. At all. I just live having the books for the lore.
Have the rules for all factions in one book, then a lore book for each faction for those that want it.
Always love your videos. Keep em coming :-)
Hey there! Nice Vid, but one thing must be corrected: The lore in fact did change a lot for the necrons. In the first codex, the c`tan were the masters of the enslaved necron race. Only later did GW switch that around. Otherwise fun watch :) thanks
Could 40k not transition into how AoS deal with rules? The rules for all models and the "basics" are free and can be found on the AoS app. The codex would then work to add extra rules, different ways to play the army, lore, art or even just a collection piece for those who wish to buy it. Thinking about this as a new player (which I am), why not make the game more accessible for beginners, and then add the Codex as a sort of progression, or an optional purchase for those who wish to do so?