The Open Court crew talks about the lack of dominant big men in today's NBA and reminisce about some of the legends who have played the center position in the past.
Kenny is right on. Dirk and Garnett have range, agility and FREEDOM to use it. It is expanded their games. Thus, they became offensive PF's with height of a center, if not bulk.
All the kids want to be point guards. Look at Kevin Durant vs Kevin Garnett. Both are around the same size, 6'10-6'11" long, lengthy. Only difference is their skill set. Garnett focused on being a great post player, but Durant worked on his dribbling, shooting, etc. Honestly, I don't think any kid wants to be a post player. Everyone wants to be the shooter, the dunker, the guy with the crossover, etc. The big men are still in the game, they just don't develop the same skill sets.
+Dhk4 That can be a good thing, but it's also a hindrance...for example lebron only developed a post game in 2012, and at his size, and strength and depending on the team he's playing on a given night, his FG% could be close to 60% if he exploited that...same goes for Durant. Durant has a huge wingspan and is 6'10''...
+Dhk4 They are talking about centers, that's what big man means. Garnett, Durant, LeBron, none of them would have focused on being a center. Also, LeBron is not exactly a shooter, and Garnett could dunk all right.
Dhk4 ... Idk why you got 30+ likes you're talking about a 3 and a 4. Garnett is a PF and Durant is a SF and barely looks 200lbs. Where's all the big men? We have THABEET and he sucks. They are all dissappearing. KD is nothing close to the NBA term "big man" he's a 3 not even a 4 we're talking about BIG 5's. Big HUGE gritty dominant 5's. Why are those going away. And no they aren't still in the league crossing ppl over and shooting 3's. They are completely non existent. The real answer to why is best said by the professionals in the video above^ Pot smoking logic is what I got from you. Save it next time because you get young sheep thinking all retarded, ppl read shit with over 10 likes and it's as good as any actual resource. Do the world a favor and delete your comment.
Low Low Low Low Low Low I know KG and KD are different positions but I think he was just saying body type wise they are similar but those guys with those body types now a days have skill sets that most 3s have instead of 4s ya know most 7 foot guys can dribble and shot now look at Kristap Porzingis 7'1 I think and he plays like a SF not a PF and definitely not like a PF from earlier eras
Also, much to Chucks point. There's guys like Steven Adams who use the paint really effectively and utilise their height and strength just like the old days. It's still around in some guys but not very many. Adams does take the occasional 10 footer or 15 footer, but most of the time he's playing real big man ball.
In this era, you'll either have a talented but injury prone big or a healthy but unskilled big. You have to overpay just to grab a decent one. Top "post" Centers of this generation: Anthony Davis DeMarcus Cousins Andre Drummond Joakim Noah Al Jefferson Roy Hibbert Others that could become elite post centers: Joel Embiid Nicola Vucevic Jonas Valanciunas Gorgui Dieng But hey, 2015 draft is gonna loaded with talented centers.
It is crazy how Yao Ming does not get the credit he deserves. Shaq admitted it that Yao Ming would have went down to be one of the best centers if he was not injured! Yao was 7 foot 6 and more athletic than any person his size! He averaged 25 points a game, averaged 12 rebounds a game and shot 88 percent from the free throw line. Maybe because he is Asian but Yao school all the centers he played against. He could shoot, dribble, had wicked post moves. Yao is better than dwight and it wasnt for yao injuries he would have been better than shaq
Most of you are just naming players that play center. They're talking about DOMINANT big men. I can't really think of a player right now that plays like an old-school, back to the basket big man and ALSO dominates. Shaq really is the last one.
Yea but the whole point of being dominant is consistency , being a force. Hibbert was a bitch this season and hasn't really been anything special bruce smith
bruce smith He really wasn't, but I mean, so what? Are you just trying to tell us that he is kind of good at least one time in his career? Alright, that's cool.
3 second rule was put in 01-02. The 8 seconds to bring the ball over half was 01-02. 00-01 they made it so you don't foul on an open layup otherwise they get a free throw and the ball in 06-07 they made it 2 free throws and the ball. 04-05 the redefined hand checking enforcing the hand checking and defensive 3 seconds. They basically made perimeter players with speed and driving ability untouchable to increase scoring and to give the illusion of more MJ's. Doing so took away the Big's.
It's also nostalgia. People see these players as legends and has no perspective on today's players. Drummond, Davis, now we'll have KAT, Okafor, they are dominant centers. Not in the same playing style than a Shaq, but they are centers who dominate.
this is 4 years and a half OLD. All the guys you mentioned didnt play in the nba at that time, and the only one of them that is 7 foot is Karl, that is 7 foot nothing
I might get a lot of hate from all of you basketball hipsters out there, but Dwight Howard would be a much better center if he played in the 80's and 90's. Today's rule changes make it much harder for there to be low post scoring. The game back then favored the guys like David Robinson and Olajuwon. Don't get me wrong. They were great. But, the rules back then made it so you can double a center but if he passes it, the help defender can't recover. That was illegal. So centers back then would either get doubled so they could easily just kick it out to the open player, and that player would have essentially a great scoring opportunity or they would not get doubled and they could just dominate that one man in the post. Dwight doesn't have great post moves, but he almost always attracts help defenders. He's athletic enough to dominate one defender.
Not to mention that those guys were allowed to camp in the paint because there was no rule against it. That's illegal now. Howard is a terrific rim defender with that rule in effect. These rules don't help low post players and/or rim protectors at all.
Akash Mehta Well Shaquille played in both eras with the zone and without. He was leaving his prime in miami and still averaged about 22 and 10 playing alongside a prime Dwyane Wade. Defensively and rebounding wise Dwight gets the nod. But Shaq's size and pure dominance completely usurped that. He didn't have to block a shot to be an intimidating presence. His offensive dominance was just so much greater than Dwight. However I do understand Dwight is very undersized as a center at around 6'9 without shoes. As well as playing in a zone oriented league to prevent small guards from driving in. Dwight could've played better perhaps in the 80's and 90's but i think his mental make up wouldn't have taken the beating.
+Jason Lee I agree with you about Shaq. But, Shaq wasn't nearly as productive in the Finals. Two years from that time in 2004, he averaged 26 in the finals while shooting 63%. He was also doing that against 4x DPOY Ben Wallace. While they did lose that series, I believe that was because of Kobe's erratic shooting. But in two years, production in the finals dropped that much? That was because of the rule changes more than anything else. And Dwight's mental makeup wouldn't have been able to handle the 90's and 80's but you have to also factor in the fact that his mental makeup comes from a much softer game. I believe he doesn't essentially need a tougher mentality in today's game because of the protection he is afforded when it comes to dead ball trash talking. I think he would be a different ball player both physically and mentally, had he played in the older times.
I hear these dummies ask, "why are the classic big-men vanishing from the NBA?" Well, I'll tell you why: most of the physicality has been completely removed from the game. This "sissy-fication" has COMPLETELY shifted the paradigm. Teams no longer need enforcers, rim protectors, and strength in the paint, primarily because as a defender you can't even TOUCH whoever you're guarding. Guys like Anthony Mason, Rick Mahorn, Bill Laimbeer, Dennis Rodman, were NBA STARS because of their gritty defensive presence. Teams NEEDED big-men to withstand the punishment inflicted upon them by OTHER big-men....Now, you're better off having a finesse-based-big cause nobody can utilize strength anymore... The NBA of today is at a "higher-level" in many regards, but definitely not as entertaining...Back in the day, guys would do ANYTHING to win, and the refs let them do it....
The Big Men started disappearing the second the 3pt line appeared. The more and more popular it is the more valuable wing players & stretch big men are. Back to basket big men are going down.
So do you think we will ever see an era of great centers like this again? I feel like the importance of the 5 POSITION has greatly depreciated over the last almost decade, as our league seems to put high priority on GUARDS and FORWARDS instead (i.e. our NBA DRAFT LOTTERIES). Your comment being a great point! :D
ImperialDecree Most likely not, we still have a couple great post up big men like Jefferson, Cousins & Aldridge, but they're diminishing, Centers nowadays are more about defense & rebounding, scoring isn't as big of an emphasis
Gee Star you're the one with no clue dumbass, plenty of big men still dominated with the back to basket rule, the longer you take to make a move the easier it is to double so must good big men didn't spend that much time with their back to the basket before making their move anyway, but just cause the 3pt line was around doesn't mean it had influenced the game truly at that time. In '84-'85 teams(not individual players butvv entire teams) were making 0.9 3s a game, this season the average team makes 7.8 3s a game. The 3pt line's changed everything. wings can be just as efficient as bigs and players who can't shoot the 3 aren't nearly as valuable for an offense as they used to be
It merely scared young bigs from developing a post game, a post game would still work regardless of the defense they played. These guys just wanted to score more rather than become facilitators. A big playing against a zone would end up being more of a passer.
True, as I stated they really get overlooked. I just remember rodman as his only really dominant game changing big man he had. When people think about those bulls what pops up is just pippen and jordan. When people think about the other great teams teams what pops up usually includes a star big.
I would say the bigmen is evolving. Instead of players who patrolled the paint, swatting away shots, and on offense, playing in the low post, centers now are getting a midrange game, and possibly a 3-pt range. Every recent title winner had a bigman who can it the jumpshot. From the Mavs and Dirk, to the Heat and Bosh, from the Cs and KG, to the Spurs and Duncan, to the Lakers and Gasol.
The big man is coming back in the NBA. I've been saying this for the past couple years. The past few years have given us The Brow, Drummond, Embiid, Jokic, Towns, Porzingis, Jahlil (RIP), Myles soon to be, Markkanen soon to be. On top of that we have Boogie and Marc, and this upcoming class full of bigmen. The NBA has been patiently waiting and planting its seeds and now the seeds have grown into huge trees with long branches that will wreck everything inside and outside the paint. I am excited to see the future of the NBA :)
Drummond, Griffin, Jordan, Gasol ,Embiid, Cousins, Davis, Adams, Porzingis, Kanter, KAT, Gobert, Howard, and Lopez. I think the big men position is back. The NBA will be safe.
That's why i like so much the fact that my Knicks got Tyson Chandler. Many would say he doesn't deserve the money he got cos he's got no offense but there very few of those 7ft athletic centers around so you HAVE to pay em.
37 year old KG played better in 2011-2012 that 34-36 year old KG ever did. He was injured in those years. Last year was his first healthy season and most productive one since he came to the celtics in 2008. Bosh was also highly productive in game 7 and in the NBA finals.
imo, the quality of big men didn't actually go down. It's just that the defensive 3-sec rule and the banning of hand-checking limited their impact in the game today because penetration became much easier. If Bynum can block 10 shots in a playoff game against the fast paced NUGGETS (remember, in that game Denver scored only 88 points), can you imagine the impact Dwight, Chandler, Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Perkins, Noah, and the other centers can have if they can man the paint 24/7?
One thing I thing they also mentioned is that bigs aren't dominating the scoring like they used to because when you look in the past it was big guys who were big scoters like wilt, Kareem, and shaq
you forgot to mention that back in Jordans days there were no 3" defensive violation... that means , these BEASTS of centers of that ERA were allowed to camp the low post.
The game has shifted to the perimeter in the last 10 years, there wasn't a need for a dominant big man anymore since centres are now averaging less in games. The rule changes in 04-05 really motivated guards to feel safer moving around on the perimeter and making plays outside. That's why you see a lot of big guys that can shoot nowadays, you don't see a lot of big men in the key because of the defensive 3 second rule that was introduced in 01-02 and that eliminated a lot of big men trying to score down low (Shaq and Tim Duncan being one of the few who still did it). You have guys like Kevin Durant who are super tall but can play and shoot like a guard because they had to adjust to a new system that involved a lot more speed and a lot more range.
Not true. There is still some old school teams out there and there always will be. A good example is the Toronto Raptors, they have a back to the basket big who absolutely BEASTS in the playoffs in Jonas Valanciunas. He is a monster and if the Raptors chose to they could drop the ball into him 20 times a game and run the offence through him and they made the ECF. They just drafted Jakob Poetl as well. So there is some old school teams it just takes a serious Talent like JV to make it work.
I believe the big man is coming back. Drummond, Turner, KAT, Gobert, Embiid, Cousins, Adams, and so on... the NBA evolves as does any sport. It just happens to be a guard dominant league right now.
Don't sleep on the rookie porzingis neither, the kids a beast and helping NY look good again, he stay healthy and I'm 2-3 years he'll be the Dirk for the Knicks
I think it's more because of zone defense. it's harder to get the ball down into the post now because of zone, its harder to make your shot when 2 guys can comfortably switch onto you because of zone.
The big men's game had been changing since the late 90s with centers being more skilled with Shaq being the only traditional big man. KG, Shawn Kemp and even Karl Malone were product of the evolution. Karl Malone developed a fadeaway, Kemp faced up half the time and KG was someone who played 1-5. The other theory was that people was afraid of Shaq and didn't want to bang in there and with Jordan and others, everybody wanted to play like Mike and not like a Big Man.
These rules haven't changed since the 90's, though, it's more about post-moves etc. seemingly disappearing from the league, big men facing up instead of playing back to the basket.
Anytime you win an MVP or a DPOY you are a dominant player. Anytime you lead the league in rebounding four times you are a dominant player. If you can take over a game you are a dominant player. As for being a physically dominant player Garnett has been top 5 in that category imo since the late 90s.
Did you watch the playoffs? KG and Bosh and Ibaka and Duncan were all on fire offensively and defensively. Ibaka had a coming out party with his offensive game.KG hadn't looked that good since 08, he hasn't been healthy since 08 and rivers managed his minutes excellently. KG was averaging 27 points the first three series. Duncan was the one player who was consistent throughout the spurs entire playoff run this past year.
They're not gone, they simply don't get coverage other than D12. There's Bogut, Horford, and Gortat. They didn't even mention Yao after Shaq. The 90's had the most number of good big men, but usually there's 3 or 4 good ones in the league.
Lol, they did. The idiot posters are spewing their idiotic theories. The rule changes made the developing bigs abandon the post game. It's too bad because it would still be effective regardless of the defenses. If you threw Hakeem out in today's game his teams would still dominate, he probably would score a little less because he would get triple teamed but if he had a good cast around him his teammates would make defenses pay. Basketball is basketball regardless of the era.
Most of the names mentioned in this clip had other strengths to their game. Hakeem was an exsception to the rule as is a Dirk. David Robinson deserved a lot more acknolwedgement. He wasn't just the boy scout in the middle, he was one of the greatest left-handed centers of all time.
i mention the heat because they are relatively small compared to the players you had mentioned. The players you stated averaged at least 7ft and have exceptional gameplay except for tyson and perkins who are defensive specialists.. but i see what you mean
I didnt list him as a big man, however he would fit my standard seeing as though he is 6'8 1/2-6'9 (barkely 6'4, rodman 6'6) I stated he is a pretty big dude and miami is a pretty big team and that people don't refer to 6'8-9 dominant all around guys like LeBron, Bird and Magic, who can play the 4 or the 5 when they have to as big men.
I don't think that we have a lack of big men, today you have Cousins, Jordan, Drummond, Whiteside, Noah, Horford, Jefferson, Bosh of course they don't play like the older generations but you don't lack the big men. Now you have newcommers like Porzingis, Jokic, Marjanovic and many others that will affect the game...
Those guys you mentioned are good but thats about it. They talking about dominant big men who can score 30 a night and 50 if they have to like Shaq, Hakeem, Patrick ewing, Kareem, Wilt chamberlain etc... Plus having the ability to grab 15-20 rebounds.
+Densanity They don't play that kind of basketball in NBA any more. Those times when centers and power forwards scored that amount of points are history, no one plays like that any more where C and PF are key positions. Key position of today are small forwards because they are (have to be) the most versatile type of players who can score from three point line, mid-range and go for a dunk or lay up and have great view of the court for assists. Guards also in some teams more/less but definitely they score more than Cs and PFs in NBA nowadays. It looks to me like the game simply changed, look at any team in NBA and you will see that the key players in 90% of them are Cs and PFs even though they can be...
Слобода Или Смрт I bet you are just talking about lebron james LOL. There are no key positions because it differs from each team. But there are key players. Key players of todays game tend to be from guard to SF because todays big men are weak. Not because they dont play that kind of basketball anymore but because they "cant" key word "cant" Because the skill level of the bigmen back then were just too damn high compared to today. There are good bigmen out there but not great. The last ones were shaq and yao ming. Hell even tim duncan should be in it cuz he plays C sometimes. The number of versatile SF did not change btw other than lebron and kevin durant the SF back then were much better in compared to todays game. Talking about versatile players? Grant hill, Charles Barkley , Scottie pippen, Tracy mcgrady. Magic johnson Larry bird.
+Densanity Can't agree with you on that mate. Look at the Clippers for example they have maybe the best PF (if not best than one of the best) Blake Griffin, the guy is simply amazing he is the monster dunker, great field score percentage and very good defender and Deandre Jordan definitely among 5 best centers in the league but yet who is the key player in Clippers? Chris Paul my friend. Same thing with GSW you have Draymond Green playing 4 and he is the best PF shooter in the league but the key player is Curry,hell even Thompson is more important than Green. Spurs - Leonard(Not TD anymore) Bulls - Butler/Rose Knicks - Anthony Cavs - James/Irving Today NBA teams simply don't do low post plays so often but instead they are going for open shots. Cs and PFs score mostly out of rebounds and that's not the lack of "great players"... One more thing you can't compare basketball from 30 years ago with basketball that's played today, this is the sport that is constantly evolving and changing, you have to addapt. You can't play the post when you have in the league shooters like Curry, Thompson, Durant etc. you are gonna get outscored it gets simple as that...
+Слобода Или Смрт That's where you're wrong though.... Draymond Green is by far the most important player for the Warriors.... He is the absolute essential piece of the puzzle, more than Curry or Thompson or Durant....
Steve Kerr is correct. Problem is Yao Ming had to retire early due to injury. He would've been the true Center of this time, along with Dwight (when he gets his act together) but in the meantime, we're stuck with nobody.
@RaiptYou Yao Ming's career was cut short due to injury, there's a reason why they didn't mention a guy like Brad Daugherty who had a pretty solid career with the Cavs but was also cut short due injury.
I think that at some point big men started looking at guys like kobe and realised that that was where the hype was and that they should play more like them because it looks cooler, and that it's cost the nba it's real centers
The NBA play style has changed from playing through centrers with good fundamentals and good basketball IQ such as post moves and handling double teams to the more evolved exciting and athletic guards and forwards that prefer a 1 on 1 style of game...all I'm trying to say is...The game isn't about fundamentals any more, it's about entertainment :)
I believe that Roy Hibbert and Andre Drummond are the only throwback centres in the NBA. By saying Andre Drummond, I mean he is big and athletic, he has the potential to learn the post game.
Miami Heat - Bosh, Haslem, and LeBron did get time at the 4 Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki and Tyson Chandler LA Lakers - Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum Boston Celtics - KG and Kendrick Perkins San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan 06 Miami Heat - Shaquille O'Neal and Haslem Detroit Pistons - Ben and Rasheed Wallace 3 Peat Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal The big men may not be as dominant as before, but this is still a big man league, you need at least one if you want a championship
There are still some decent big men. But not anything compared to earlier years such as the 50s-70s to the late 80s-90s. It's mostly because guards and other positions have taken over with scoring and passing ability, making them more opted to be the number one option.
bigman right now who has best post move and footwork i think al jefferson (im not mention like dirk, timmy, kg, pau because they're already mentioned everywhere) , and soon to be post move offensive juggernaut = enes kanter, donatas motiejunas, vucevic, dmc
nerlrns noel is the future of the NBA bigman hes an amazing defender great ebounder hes quick and he can slam it DOWN HARD all he needs to do is develop that offensive game post and even a shot but other than that he can be the best or 2nd best C in the league
A big man has been and still is the most important factor to winning a championship. look at the last champions and their Big men. It really gets overlooked 2011 - Mavs - Tyson Chandler and Dirk, 2010 and 2009 - Gasol & Bynum, 2008 - Kevin Garnett and Perkins, 2007 - Tim Duncan, 2006 - Shaq & Mourning, 2005 - Tim Duncan, 2004 - Big Ben & Rasheed, 2003 - Tim Duncan & David Robinson, 2000-2002 - Shaq, 1999 - Tim Duncan & David Robinson. The only real exception in history was Jordan's bulls
Athleticism of small men has increased, letting them play a bigger role against bigger competition. Average jump height increases, average player height can decrease.
I honestly think that dominant big men disappeared because most big men are just satisfied with the fact that their tall so they know there's a good chance they'll get a job in the league so they don't try to practice things like the post game or a faceup game.
He was 6'6 and came in 1996. After Jordan's first three championships. He was a 6'6 dominant defender and rebounder who played like a big man. If he was 3 or 4 inches taller he would be a big man.
There will be, but the big men then were generational talents. As Chuck said there were few guys who were that big, fast, and explosive. Shaq, Wilt, etc. There have been great big guys like Hakeem and The Admiral, but Wilt and Shaq were the only dominant forces, kinda like immovable forces, but other big guys nowadays are shooters, there aren't much power guys like Shaq and Wilt anymore, but if they do come around, they will again be the dominant forces. The only reason we became three point oriented is because there are no more use for pounding the inside since there are no more big guys like Shaq, Wilt, or Yao Ming who truly gobbles up the interior and makes it theirs.
They did. The only ones left were shaq and duncan. The best right now are gasol, bynum, howard and al jefferson and they aren't much of anything compared to guys that could lead and carry a team and had a great all around game.
@MrGerakis100 I agree =) The 90's is the age of the Centers, the mid 2000 is the age of the SGs... and since 4, 5 years.. we have the age of the PGs =) Specially if you think about Rose, WestB and Wall.. CP and Deron are still young, Rondo too, etc... The SGs era die with the downfall of Iverson, McGraddy and Carter... but was instantly moved on. The Pgs dominate the league today, and i love that =)
Funny how the big 3 are the all time leading scorers, on their ex-teams, except for wade since he hasnt changed teams, but he is still the all time leading scorer of the Heat
Anthony Davis....the great big man is back! When that kid picks up, the nba will remember how effective an all around big man super star really is. If this kid opens up his post game a little, starts working on his footwork...lookout.
If you don't think Bosh is a dominant big man than that is your opinion. The heat dont get past the celtics without him. Any player who has multiple allstar appearances and is considered a top 15 player and is over 6'10 is usually considered a pretty good big man. Haslem is a great defender. If you dont think bosh and haslem are dominant big men than the 08 celtics and 04 pistons should also be considered teams to win without a big man.
for a 10th overall pick a carrer average of 11-8-2-1-1 is not a dissapointment, a role player is a kwame brown, luke walton,brian scslabrine horace grant was a starter/bench player, and i know he isnt a hall of famer but he was a guy who could ball and you want on your team for not only some offense in his prime but also grea defense you are more then likley a 12 year old kid who started to watch nba 2 months ago, i watched grant and the bulls in his prime and the boy could ball
yes, and 6'11 haslem. And lebron and battier are 6'9 and great defenders/rebounders. Big dominant guys on offense and defense. Jordan had ,7'1 Cartwright, Purdue, and Grant, all below average busts who were not very dominant on either side of the ball.
Man, Shaq on open court is like the polar opposite of Shaq on inside the NBA
Exactly. It is phenomenal how different he is.
Kenny is right on. Dirk and Garnett have range, agility and FREEDOM to use it. It is expanded their games. Thus, they became offensive PF's with height of a center, if not bulk.
All the kids want to be point guards. Look at Kevin Durant vs Kevin Garnett. Both are around the same size, 6'10-6'11" long, lengthy. Only difference is their skill set. Garnett focused on being a great post player, but Durant worked on his dribbling, shooting, etc. Honestly, I don't think any kid wants to be a post player. Everyone wants to be the shooter, the dunker, the guy with the crossover, etc. The big men are still in the game, they just don't develop the same skill sets.
Not only that, the rules now prefer guards. Because of the less physical rules, big men can't do what they could do a couple decades back.
+Dhk4 That can be a good thing, but it's also a hindrance...for example lebron only developed a post game in 2012, and at his size, and strength and depending on the team he's playing on a given night, his FG% could be close to 60% if he exploited that...same goes for Durant. Durant has a huge wingspan and is 6'10''...
+Dhk4 They are talking about centers, that's what big man means. Garnett, Durant, LeBron, none of them would have focused on being a center. Also, LeBron is not exactly a shooter, and Garnett could dunk all right.
Dhk4 ... Idk why you got 30+ likes you're talking about a 3 and a 4. Garnett is a PF and Durant is a SF and barely looks 200lbs. Where's all the big men? We have THABEET and he sucks. They are all dissappearing. KD is nothing close to the NBA term "big man" he's a 3 not even a 4 we're talking about BIG 5's. Big HUGE gritty dominant 5's. Why are those going away. And no they aren't still in the league crossing ppl over and shooting 3's. They are completely non existent. The real answer to why is best said by the professionals in the video above^ Pot smoking logic is what I got from you. Save it next time because you get young sheep thinking all retarded, ppl read shit with over 10 likes and it's as good as any actual resource. Do the world a favor and delete your comment.
Low Low Low Low Low Low I know KG and KD are different positions but I think he was just saying body type wise they are similar but those guys with those body types now a days have skill sets that most 3s have instead of 4s ya know most 7 foot guys can dribble and shot now look at Kristap Porzingis 7'1 I think and he plays like a SF not a PF and definitely not like a PF from earlier eras
shaq was a freak of nature, idk if we will ever see another shaq the big diseal again or if so for a very long time
Chalupa Batman spoke to soon Greek freak
Wilt Chamberlain was a true freak of Nature. Speed Vertical Strength Being 7’1
Also, much to Chucks point. There's guys like Steven Adams who use the paint really effectively and utilise their height and strength just like the old days. It's still around in some guys but not very many.
Adams does take the occasional 10 footer or 15 footer, but most of the time he's playing real big man ball.
Yeah, there are guys that can do it, most can't, don't want too ir are not allowed...
No comparison at all lmao
Olajuwon was always my favorite - A small forward trapped inside a Center's body
In this era, you'll either have a talented but injury prone big or a healthy but unskilled big. You have to overpay just to grab a decent one.
Top "post" Centers of this generation:
Anthony Davis
DeMarcus Cousins
Andre Drummond
Joakim Noah
Al Jefferson
Roy Hibbert
Others that could become elite post centers:
Joel Embiid
Nicola Vucevic
Jonas Valanciunas
Gorgui Dieng
But hey, 2015 draft is gonna loaded with talented centers.
It is crazy how Yao Ming does not get the credit he deserves. Shaq admitted it that Yao Ming would have went down to be one of the best centers if he was not injured! Yao was 7 foot 6 and more athletic than any person his size! He averaged 25 points a game, averaged 12 rebounds a game and shot 88 percent from the free throw line. Maybe because he is Asian but Yao school all the centers he played against. He could shoot, dribble, had wicked post moves. Yao is better than dwight and it wasnt for yao injuries he would have been better than shaq
those injuries were because of the fact that he's 7 freaking 6 tall!
sad they already forgot about him
so kenny smith is better than steve nash?
Yao's season career high in rebounds was 10.8
***** Thats better then what Roy Hibbert has done. Hibbert averaged 6 Rebounds per game last year. 6!!! and he is 7'2.
Most of you are just naming players that play center. They're talking about DOMINANT big men. I can't really think of a player right now that plays like an old-school, back to the basket big man and ALSO dominates. Shaq really is the last one.
He's never been dominant at any point of his career.
bruce smith
a series isn't dominance. A whole season almost averaging 30 ppg, an mvp award and a trophy , that's dominance. SHAQ
Yea but the whole point of being dominant is consistency , being a force. Hibbert was a bitch this season and hasn't really been anything special bruce smith
bruce smith He really wasn't, but I mean, so what? Are you just trying to tell us that he is kind of good at least one time in his career? Alright, that's cool.
Al Jefferson from Charlotte is about the best one I can think of.
3 second rule was put in 01-02. The 8 seconds to bring the ball over half was 01-02. 00-01 they made it so you don't foul on an open layup otherwise they get a free throw and the ball in 06-07 they made it 2 free throws and the ball. 04-05 the redefined hand checking enforcing the hand checking and defensive 3 seconds. They basically made perimeter players with speed and driving ability untouchable to increase scoring and to give the illusion of more MJ's. Doing so took away the Big's.
It's also nostalgia. People see these players as legends and has no perspective on today's players. Drummond, Davis, now we'll have KAT, Okafor, they are dominant centers. Not in the same playing style than a Shaq, but they are centers who dominate.
Big KAT is the new age big man.
this is 4 years and a half OLD. All the guys you mentioned didnt play in the nba at that time, and the only one of them that is 7 foot is Karl, that is 7 foot nothing
@Chloe Welsh Late to the party, genius
Id say the last big man that acted like it really was andrew bynum.
Oh they're coming back, KAT, Porzingis, Jahlil, Turner, Drummond, Cousins, Davis, Whiteside, Vucevic, and Julius Randle
Gobert as well.
alex len
Lol
LaShawn James Embiiiiiiiiiiid
Adams, Pasecniks
I might get a lot of hate from all of you basketball hipsters out there, but Dwight Howard would be a much better center if he played in the 80's and 90's. Today's rule changes make it much harder for there to be low post scoring. The game back then favored the guys like David Robinson and Olajuwon. Don't get me wrong. They were great. But, the rules back then made it so you can double a center but if he passes it, the help defender can't recover. That was illegal. So centers back then would either get doubled so they could easily just kick it out to the open player, and that player would have essentially a great scoring opportunity or they would not get doubled and they could just dominate that one man in the post. Dwight doesn't have great post moves, but he almost always attracts help defenders. He's athletic enough to dominate one defender.
Not to mention that those guys were allowed to camp in the paint because there was no rule against it. That's illegal now. Howard is a terrific rim defender with that rule in effect. These rules don't help low post players and/or rim protectors at all.
Akash Mehta Well Shaquille played in both eras with the zone and without. He was leaving his prime in miami and still averaged about 22 and 10 playing alongside a prime Dwyane Wade. Defensively and rebounding wise Dwight gets the nod. But Shaq's size and pure dominance completely usurped that. He didn't have to block a shot to be an intimidating presence. His offensive dominance was just so much greater than Dwight. However I do understand Dwight is very undersized as a center at around 6'9 without shoes. As well as playing in a zone oriented league to prevent small guards from driving in. Dwight could've played better perhaps in the 80's and 90's but i think his mental make up wouldn't have taken the beating.
+Jason Lee I agree with you about Shaq. But, Shaq wasn't nearly as productive in the Finals. Two years from that time in 2004, he averaged 26 in the finals while shooting 63%. He was also doing that against 4x DPOY Ben Wallace. While they did lose that series, I believe that was because of Kobe's erratic shooting. But in two years, production in the finals dropped that much? That was because of the rule changes more than anything else. And Dwight's mental makeup wouldn't have been able to handle the 90's and 80's but you have to also factor in the fact that his mental makeup comes from a much softer game. I believe he doesn't essentially need a tougher mentality in today's game because of the protection he is afforded when it comes to dead ball trash talking. I think he would be a different ball player both physically and mentally, had he played in the older times.
Akash Mehta
Did it ever occur to you that the reason WHY his '04 #s were down, was because he played HURT for those ENTIRE playoffs?
Gee Star I was referring to that piece of shit Akash, you have a fucking low bball iq you dumb fuck.
I hear these dummies ask, "why are the classic big-men vanishing from the NBA?"
Well, I'll tell you why: most of the physicality has been completely removed from the game. This "sissy-fication" has COMPLETELY shifted the paradigm. Teams no longer need enforcers, rim protectors, and strength in the paint, primarily because as a defender you can't even TOUCH whoever you're guarding.
Guys like Anthony Mason, Rick Mahorn, Bill Laimbeer, Dennis Rodman, were NBA STARS because of their gritty defensive presence. Teams NEEDED big-men to withstand the punishment inflicted upon them by OTHER big-men....Now, you're better off having a finesse-based-big cause nobody can utilize strength anymore...
The NBA of today is at a "higher-level" in many regards, but definitely not as entertaining...Back in the day, guys would do ANYTHING to win, and the refs let them do it....
Forget touching, you'd get a technical just for looking at him funny
4:30 love how they showed Dirk some love.
The Big Men started disappearing the second the 3pt line appeared. The more and more popular it is the more valuable wing players & stretch big men are. Back to basket big men are going down.
So do you think we will ever see an era of great centers like this again? I feel like the importance of the 5 POSITION has greatly depreciated over the last almost decade, as our league seems to put high priority on GUARDS and FORWARDS instead (i.e. our NBA DRAFT LOTTERIES).
Your comment being a great point! :D
ImperialDecree Most likely not, we still have a couple great post up big men like Jefferson, Cousins & Aldridge, but they're diminishing, Centers nowadays are more about defense & rebounding, scoring isn't as big of an emphasis
Gee Star you're the one with no clue dumbass, plenty of big men still dominated with the back to basket rule, the longer you take to make a move the easier it is to double so must good big men didn't spend that much time with their back to the basket before making their move anyway, but just cause the 3pt line was around doesn't mean it had influenced the game truly at that time. In '84-'85 teams(not individual players butvv entire teams) were making 0.9 3s a game, this season the average team makes 7.8 3s a game. The 3pt line's changed everything. wings can be just as efficient as bigs and players who can't shoot the 3 aren't nearly as valuable for an offense as they used to be
Honestly I think the centers are evolving, because of the rule changes. Basketball isn't what it used to be, its no longer as rough as it was.
You are a bot
the zone defense is one of the reason... before nba used to have illegal defense so is hard for guys to double team
It merely scared young bigs from developing a post game, a post game would still work regardless of the defense they played. These guys just wanted to score more rather than become facilitators. A big playing against a zone would end up being more of a passer.
Funny coming back to this on 2011, and watching the rise of Ayton and Bamba. BIG MEN ARE BACK
Funny how this comment did not age well either !
True, as I stated they really get overlooked. I just remember rodman as his only really dominant game changing big man he had. When people think about those bulls what pops up is just pippen and jordan. When people think about the other great teams teams what pops up usually includes a star big.
I would say the bigmen is evolving. Instead of players who patrolled the paint, swatting away shots, and on offense, playing in the low post, centers now are getting a midrange game, and possibly a 3-pt range. Every recent title winner had a bigman who can it the jumpshot. From the Mavs and Dirk, to the Heat and Bosh, from the Cs and KG, to the Spurs and Duncan, to the Lakers and Gasol.
Bosh has one of the best jumpshots in big man history not to mention his post game is good and his footwork is also good.
The big man is coming back in the NBA. I've been saying this for the past couple years. The past few years have given us The Brow, Drummond, Embiid, Jokic, Towns, Porzingis, Jahlil (RIP), Myles soon to be, Markkanen soon to be. On top of that we have Boogie and Marc, and this upcoming class full of bigmen. The NBA has been patiently waiting and planting its seeds and now the seeds have grown into huge trees with long branches that will wreck everything inside and outside the paint. I am excited to see the future of the NBA :)
Okay, I get you're point and yeah you're right. Still, it's a sad fact that there are almost no dominant big men now, offensively and defensively.
Drummond, Griffin, Jordan, Gasol ,Embiid, Cousins, Davis, Adams, Porzingis, Kanter, KAT, Gobert, Howard, and Lopez. I think the big men position is back. The NBA will be safe.
the game has shifted, and there are so many new moves, new skills, new tactics, that a dominant center is no longer as effective as it were before.
That's why i like so much the fact that my Knicks got Tyson Chandler. Many would say he doesn't deserve the money he got cos he's got no offense but there very few of those 7ft athletic centers around so you HAVE to pay em.
37 year old KG played better in 2011-2012 that 34-36 year old KG ever did. He was injured in those years. Last year was his first healthy season and most productive one since he came to the celtics in 2008. Bosh was also highly productive in game 7 and in the NBA finals.
Didn't even mention Tim Duncan. So under-appreciated.
This is so true, teams are using their PF as centers, e.g Duncan,Jermaine Oneal,Bargnani etc
imo, the quality of big men didn't actually go down. It's just that the defensive 3-sec rule and the banning of hand-checking limited their impact in the game today because penetration became much easier. If Bynum can block 10 shots in a playoff game against the fast paced NUGGETS (remember, in that game Denver scored only 88 points), can you imagine the impact Dwight, Chandler, Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Perkins, Noah, and the other centers can have if they can man the paint 24/7?
Dirk is one of the most underrated players of all time, IMO.
One thing I thing they also mentioned is that bigs aren't dominating the scoring like they used to because when you look in the past it was big guys who were big scoters like wilt, Kareem, and shaq
you forgot to mention that back in Jordans days there were no 3" defensive violation... that means , these BEASTS of centers of that ERA were allowed to camp the low post.
The game has shifted to the perimeter in the last 10 years, there wasn't a need for a dominant big man anymore since centres are now averaging less in games. The rule changes in 04-05 really motivated guards to feel safer moving around on the perimeter and making plays outside. That's why you see a lot of big guys that can shoot nowadays, you don't see a lot of big men in the key because of the defensive 3 second rule that was introduced in 01-02 and that eliminated a lot of big men trying to score down low (Shaq and Tim Duncan being one of the few who still did it).
You have guys like Kevin Durant who are super tall but can play and shoot like a guard because they had to adjust to a new system that involved a lot more speed and a lot more range.
Not true. There is still some old school teams out there and there always will be. A good example is the Toronto Raptors, they have a back to the basket big who absolutely BEASTS in the playoffs in Jonas Valanciunas. He is a monster and if the Raptors chose to they could drop the ball into him 20 times a game and run the offence through him and they made the ECF. They just drafted Jakob Poetl as well. So there is some old school teams it just takes a serious Talent like JV to make it work.
what i think they mean by dominant big men is like big men that could hold up the team, something like hakeem olajuwon or patrick ewing
I believe the big man is coming back. Drummond, Turner, KAT, Gobert, Embiid, Cousins, Adams, and so on... the NBA evolves as does any sport. It just happens to be a guard dominant league right now.
In the next 3-4 years, Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins, and Al Jefferson will be nearly unstoppable
Al is getting old
Arshya Arya he's 30...
Big Al is getting older but he's definitely a solid post scorer today
He's still got a good 7-8 years, he's only a year older than Dwight
Don't sleep on the rookie porzingis neither, the kids a beast and helping NY look good again, he stay healthy and I'm 2-3 years he'll be the Dirk for the Knicks
I think it's more because of zone defense. it's harder to get the ball down into the post now because of zone, its harder to make your shot when 2 guys can comfortably switch onto you because of zone.
The big men's game had been changing since the late 90s with centers being more skilled with Shaq being the only traditional big man. KG, Shawn Kemp and even Karl Malone were product of the evolution. Karl Malone developed a fadeaway, Kemp faced up half the time and KG was someone who played 1-5. The other theory was that people was afraid of Shaq and didn't want to bang in there and with Jordan and others, everybody wanted to play like Mike and not like a Big Man.
yeah, i agree with your premise. Shaq was the last center who averaged in the top 5 in scoring.
The crazy thing is that in Shaq's draft profile, his weakness was he needed to refine his offensive game. Glad he didnt.
80s - Parish, Kareem, Bol, Sampson, Eaton
90s - Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, Alonzo, Mutombo
Current - Bynum, Howard, Hibbert
These rules haven't changed since the 90's, though, it's more about post-moves etc. seemingly disappearing from the league, big men facing up instead of playing back to the basket.
finally someone who understands that a big man is the most important player on the team
One guy I think they forgot to mention was David Robinson. Also, Karl Malone (I know he was a PF). But Malone had the post moves of a dominant center.
Anytime you win an MVP or a DPOY you are a dominant player. Anytime you lead the league in rebounding four times you are a dominant player. If you can take over a game you are a dominant player. As for being a physically dominant player Garnett has been top 5 in that category imo since the late 90s.
Did you watch the playoffs? KG and Bosh and Ibaka and Duncan were all on fire offensively and defensively. Ibaka had a coming out party with his offensive game.KG hadn't looked that good since 08, he hasn't been healthy since 08 and rivers managed his minutes excellently. KG was averaging 27 points the first three series. Duncan was the one player who was consistent throughout the spurs entire playoff run this past year.
They're not gone, they simply don't get coverage other than D12. There's Bogut, Horford, and Gortat. They didn't even mention Yao after Shaq. The 90's had the most number of good big men, but usually there's 3 or 4 good ones in the league.
I believe that they all covered the main reasons why the center position is where it is today.
Lol, they did. The idiot posters are spewing their idiotic theories. The rule changes made the developing bigs abandon the post game. It's too bad because it would still be effective regardless of the defenses. If you threw Hakeem out in today's game his teams would still dominate, he probably would score a little less because he would get triple teamed but if he had a good cast around him his teammates would make defenses pay. Basketball is basketball regardless of the era.
The people I mentioned in my comment were at least 6'8 1/2 and played either the 4 or the 5. That is my definition of a big man.
Most of the names mentioned in this clip had other strengths to their game. Hakeem was an exsception to the rule as is a Dirk. David Robinson deserved a lot more acknolwedgement. He wasn't just the boy scout in the middle, he was one of the greatest left-handed centers of all time.
I agree with you on all of them except for Haslem. He's only about 6'9 and not much of a threat.
i mention the heat because they are relatively small compared to the players you had mentioned. The players you stated averaged at least 7ft and have exceptional gameplay except for tyson and perkins who are defensive specialists.. but i see what you mean
I didnt list him as a big man, however he would fit my standard seeing as though he is 6'8 1/2-6'9 (barkely 6'4, rodman 6'6) I stated he is a pretty big dude and miami is a pretty big team and that people don't refer to 6'8-9 dominant all around guys like LeBron, Bird and Magic, who can play the 4 or the 5 when they have to as big men.
I don't think that we have a lack of big men, today you have Cousins, Jordan, Drummond, Whiteside, Noah, Horford, Jefferson, Bosh of course they don't play like the older generations but you don't lack the big men. Now you have newcommers like Porzingis, Jokic, Marjanovic and many others that will affect the game...
Those guys you mentioned are good but thats about it. They talking about dominant big men who can score 30 a night and 50 if they have to like Shaq, Hakeem, Patrick ewing, Kareem, Wilt chamberlain etc... Plus having the ability to grab 15-20 rebounds.
+Densanity They don't play that kind of basketball in NBA any more. Those times when centers and power forwards scored that amount of points are history, no one plays like that any more where C and PF are key positions. Key position of today are small forwards because they are (have to be) the most versatile type of players who can score from three point line, mid-range and go for a dunk or lay up and have great view of the court for assists. Guards also in some teams more/less but definitely they score more than Cs and PFs in NBA nowadays. It looks to me like the game simply changed, look at any team in NBA and you will see that the key players in 90% of them are Cs and PFs even though they can be...
Слобода Или Смрт I bet you are just talking about lebron james LOL. There are no key positions because it differs from each team. But there are key players. Key players of todays game tend to be from guard to SF because todays big men are weak. Not because they dont play that kind of basketball anymore but because they "cant" key word "cant" Because the skill level of the bigmen back then were just too damn high compared to today. There are good bigmen out there but not great. The last ones were shaq and yao ming. Hell even tim duncan should be in it cuz he plays C sometimes. The number of versatile SF did not change btw other than lebron and kevin durant the SF back then were much better in compared to todays game. Talking about versatile players? Grant hill, Charles Barkley , Scottie pippen, Tracy mcgrady. Magic johnson Larry bird.
+Densanity Can't agree with you on that mate. Look at the Clippers for example they have maybe the best PF (if not best than one of the best) Blake Griffin, the guy is simply amazing he is the monster dunker, great field score percentage and very good defender and Deandre Jordan definitely among 5 best centers in the league but yet who is the key player in Clippers? Chris Paul my friend. Same thing with GSW you have Draymond Green playing 4 and he is the best PF shooter in the league but the key player is Curry,hell even Thompson is more important than Green. Spurs - Leonard(Not TD anymore)
Bulls - Butler/Rose
Knicks - Anthony
Cavs - James/Irving
Today NBA teams simply don't do low post plays so often but instead they are going for open shots. Cs and PFs score mostly out of rebounds and that's not the lack of "great players"... One more thing you can't compare basketball from 30 years ago with basketball that's played today, this is the sport that is constantly evolving and changing, you have to addapt. You can't play the post when you have in the league shooters like Curry, Thompson, Durant etc. you are gonna get outscored it gets simple as that...
+Слобода Или Смрт That's where you're wrong though.... Draymond Green is by far the most important player for the Warriors.... He is the absolute essential piece of the puzzle, more than Curry or Thompson or Durant....
Steve Kerr is correct. Problem is Yao Ming had to retire early due to injury. He would've been the true Center of this time, along with Dwight (when he gets his act together) but in the meantime, we're stuck with nobody.
@RaiptYou Yao Ming's career was cut short due to injury, there's a reason why they didn't mention a guy like Brad Daugherty who had a pretty solid career with the Cavs but was also cut short due injury.
It would be like saying Rondo can't score or shoot jumpshots or saying lebron isnt clutch. During this playoff run all those guys proved people wrong.
I think that at some point big men started looking at guys like kobe and realised that that was where the hype was and that they should play more like them because it looks cooler, and that it's cost the nba it's real centers
I really hope Shaq is on the Dunk Contest Chuck and Shaq and Kenny that would be fun ! =D
The NBA play style has changed from playing through centrers with good fundamentals and good basketball IQ such as post moves and handling double teams to the more evolved exciting and athletic guards and forwards that prefer a 1 on 1 style of game...all I'm trying to say is...The game isn't about fundamentals any more, it's about entertainment :)
Kenny always says smart things...
If Dwight would work on his jump shot, post game, and free throws, he could become dominant. He has the talent.
Right on Kenny Smith!
I believe that Roy Hibbert and Andre Drummond are the only throwback centres in the NBA. By saying Andre Drummond, I mean he is big and athletic, he has the potential to learn the post game.
Centers think they are point guards these days.
Miami Heat - Bosh, Haslem, and LeBron did get time at the 4
Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki and Tyson Chandler
LA Lakers - Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum
Boston Celtics - KG and Kendrick Perkins
San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
06 Miami Heat - Shaquille O'Neal and Haslem
Detroit Pistons - Ben and Rasheed Wallace
3 Peat Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
The big men may not be as dominant as before, but this is still a big man league, you need at least one if you want a championship
There are still some decent big men. But not anything compared to earlier years such as the 50s-70s to the late 80s-90s. It's mostly because guards and other positions have taken over with scoring and passing ability, making them more opted to be the number one option.
bigman right now who has best post move and footwork i think al jefferson (im not mention like dirk, timmy, kg, pau because they're already mentioned everywhere) , and soon to be post move offensive juggernaut = enes kanter, donatas motiejunas, vucevic, dmc
nerlrns noel is the future of the NBA bigman hes an amazing defender great ebounder hes quick and he can slam it DOWN HARD all he needs to do is develop that offensive game post and even a shot but other than that he can be the best or 2nd best C in the league
Bosh is actually 6'11. You were right about haslem though. That was a typo on my part.
Rodman was guarding ONeal better than anyone else.........
Size does matter, but skill is important too.....(that's what she says)
A big man has been and still is the most important factor to winning a championship. look at the last champions and their Big men. It really gets overlooked 2011 - Mavs - Tyson Chandler and Dirk, 2010 and 2009 - Gasol & Bynum, 2008 - Kevin Garnett and Perkins, 2007 - Tim Duncan, 2006 - Shaq & Mourning, 2005 - Tim Duncan, 2004 - Big Ben & Rasheed, 2003 - Tim Duncan & David Robinson, 2000-2002 - Shaq, 1999 - Tim Duncan & David Robinson. The only real exception in history was Jordan's bulls
Athleticism of small men has increased, letting them play a bigger role against bigger competition. Average jump height increases, average player height can decrease.
Bynum isn't injury ridden anymore. He is playing very strong and playing good. :p
I honestly think that dominant big men disappeared because most big men are just satisfied with the fact that their tall so they know there's a good chance they'll get a job in the league so they don't try to practice things like the post game or a faceup game.
Amare Stoudamire, Chris Bosh, Kevin Garnett, Nene, Dwight Howard, things and style change
He was 6'6 and came in 1996. After Jordan's first three championships. He was a 6'6 dominant defender and rebounder who played like a big man. If he was 3 or 4 inches taller he would be a big man.
bring back the 80s rules
There will be, but the big men then were generational talents. As Chuck said there were few guys who were that big, fast, and explosive. Shaq, Wilt, etc. There have been great big guys like Hakeem and The Admiral, but Wilt and Shaq were the only dominant forces, kinda like immovable forces, but other big guys nowadays are shooters, there aren't much power guys like Shaq and Wilt anymore, but if they do come around, they will again be the dominant forces. The only reason we became three point oriented is because there are no more use for pounding the inside since there are no more big guys like Shaq, Wilt, or Yao Ming who truly gobbles up the interior and makes it theirs.
Yao Ming is one of those guys with an outside shot, which doesn't count on the traditional big man role. That's why no one mentioned him
@Ulfification True. It was such a shame...people expect T-Mac and Yao to be superstar duo like Kobe and Shaq and injury ruined it all... :(
They did. The only ones left were shaq and duncan. The best right now are gasol, bynum, howard and al jefferson and they aren't much of anything compared to guys that could lead and carry a team and had a great all around game.
Compared to what he did against the hawks and sixers and what he did in the first 5 games of the series, KG was shut down by bosh.
@MrGerakis100
I agree =) The 90's is the age of the Centers, the mid 2000 is the age of the SGs... and since 4, 5 years.. we have the age of the PGs =) Specially if you think about Rose, WestB and Wall.. CP and Deron are still young, Rondo too, etc... The SGs era die with the downfall of Iverson, McGraddy and Carter... but was instantly moved on. The Pgs dominate the league today, and i love that =)
@MrGleenCross you also can talk about SF: Durant, LeBron, Carmelo, Granger, Gay, Wallace
Funny how the big 3 are the all time leading scorers, on their ex-teams, except for wade since he hasnt changed teams, but he is still the all time leading scorer of the Heat
I think there are also more role models now for other positions
Anthony Davis....the great big man is back! When that kid picks up, the nba will remember how effective an all around big man super star really is. If this kid opens up his post game a little, starts working on his footwork...lookout.
Na can't forget about Roy Hibbert (the truest old school center in the league right now)
No mentions of Yao Ming :(
If you don't think Bosh is a dominant big man than that is your opinion. The heat dont get past the celtics without him. Any player who has multiple allstar appearances and is considered a top 15 player and is over 6'10 is usually considered a pretty good big man. Haslem is a great defender. If you dont think bosh and haslem are dominant big men than the 08 celtics and 04 pistons should also be considered teams to win without a big man.
for a 10th overall pick a carrer average of 11-8-2-1-1 is not a dissapointment, a role player is a kwame brown, luke walton,brian scslabrine
horace grant was a starter/bench player, and i know he isnt a hall of famer but he was a guy who could ball and you want on your team for not only some offense in his prime but also grea defense
you are more then likley a 12 year old kid who started to watch nba 2 months ago, i watched grant and the bulls in his prime and the boy could ball
yes, and 6'11 haslem. And lebron and battier are 6'9 and great defenders/rebounders. Big dominant guys on offense and defense. Jordan had ,7'1 Cartwright, Purdue, and Grant, all below average busts who were not very dominant on either side of the ball.
dis a good talk
Just Wait for Big V To come over and Dominate that paint like a Boss!
MJ did have Horace Grant for the 1st 3 and Rodman for the 2nd 3. They're very good players.
it is what they ment. But they are also stating that Big men are not as important as they used to be, which is clearly not true.