I thoroughly enjoyed this Ray, watched every minute .. the engineering into these engines warps my brain .. and that one brain cell tells me they needed couple more chains 🤣
I was going to say, Did Ray change his name to Eric? Little malice in the combustion palace there. That parts good, then throws it just like you Eric.🤣
A former 2017 Pentastar owner here! I had a misfire in cyl 3 brought it to the dealer as it was under warranty. after 3 failed attempts for them to diag and fix I did a compression test and found it to be lacking. I brought it back again and they found the head gasket had failed and needed to be replaced. Long story short, it was a problem for that year and a lot of engines failed because it was not caught in time, so my guess would be the gasket failed and hydro locked the engine, destroying the piston and rod.
Yes. But the problem is Ray had the head off and the rod did not fail before that, it failed after! Customers don't understand anything except their car is broken.
I'm guessing it was a leaking fuel injector that was causing the misfire all along, and it filled the cylinder and caused hydrolock. I've seen it before, and both times we were very lucky to get away with blown head gaskets. I'm definitely curious about that #3 injector, because that's what i was guessing the problem was the first time when it reeked of fuel in that cylinder
Id say your right...except the duration isnt correct. The misfire came with some enrichment of the trims but not a full skew. Its florida though, land of big rains, big puddles and casual flooding. Inspecting the air filter would probably tell the tale.
I was guessing the low compression was a cracked ring or something from an _almost_ hydrolock situation. As far as fuel trim, it's only reactive based off the o2 sensor. The computer has zero feedback from the injector, it just gives it signal to open. Keep in mind there's 5/6ths (or 2/3rds) of the exhaust mixing in to the one bad cylinder
@@lewzero Misinterpretation of what I was saying. The fuel trim data gives you a general idea of compensation even with a light misfire. It appeared in the original video that the injector was operating normally. Not to say it WAS or that it wasnt leaking just that the data he showed really didnt reflect that and neither did the cylinder wall or rest of the engine internals but especially bearing condition was great, not really suggestive of fuel dilution from an injector issue. But again, definitely could have been.
@@tedma8757 depends on the mechanical nature of the injector failure, but I tried to get a good look at the cylinder when he was showing that stuff, looking for piston scuffing and so on, and even bearing wear would indicate fuel dilution, none of which appears to be present. Given the recent weather in Florida, I lean on water ingestion.
There is a recall on a lot of those engines as well as several class action law suits. I am involved in one of them now. The problems revolve around the #3 cylinder misfires leading to cracked valves and head replacement. Look up that engine and read about the lawsuits as they are moving forward. Take pictures and keep the parts so that when the suit is settled your customer can get some money back. You are right these engines are self destructing a lot.
I wondered that, too. It seems like a lot of extra work to pull the engine before junking just for a curiosity autopsy, so I'm guessing the customer opted for a new engine.
Ray, thanks for the autopsy showing me the inside of my engine. When I am driving the 2011 T&C across the country on vacation, now I will be picturing more clearly how any of those three timing chains or other internal engine parts can fail. This will be like my Halloween nightmare, just going on all year.
Based on the damage in the head, I would guess that there was a water in the combustion chamber event that hydro-locked the piston and broke a chunk out of the ring land. That piston chunk got between the piston and the head which jammed up the piston further causing the piston to break further and the rod to snap. the rest is just flailing metal.
Yup and all caused by the defective water pump gasket shown rather early in the video. That would cause overheating of the block without the sensor indicating a problem since the sensor is in the thermostat housing. This engine has some major design issues 😮
Ray you do a great job of explaining what you are going to do and what you are looking for. Then you do a great job of explaining what you are doing and seeing as you do it. And Finally you do a great job of explaining what you found or didn't find! Your attitude is positive, you appear to be honest, you are a hard worker, you seem to stand behind your work, you treat your wife and kids well, you don't cuss on videos (so I have confidence sharing your videos with friends, family, and our Church family), you are very smart, and you have a good sense of humor! I find your channel educational and entertaining! Keep up the great work and may God bless you and yours real good!
end of autopsy... "unfortunately it didn't give us any more information than what we already didn't know." Love it. That's one of the reasons I love watching Ray. What a classic quote! I really enjoyed this breakdown. Thanks Ray!
When you found a clean piston that screams water. Look real close at the gasket. Its not a huge leak. Im sure it did not take much with aluminum. Would have thought you would see steam out the tail pipe? TY for the autopsy. It was interesting to see just what happened.
I think that if you had done a leak down test on #3 after discovering that it was low on compression, then that would have given you enough information to determine what caused the final destruction,, bubbles in the cooling system, hissing in the exhaust or intake, would have identified bad valves, or a crack in the head or cylinder, or a leaky head gasket,,, if none of that was evident, then the only thing left would be excess fuel in the cylinder on start up which could have damaged the rod enough to let go later on, great video as always Ray,,, Always enjoy your commentary,, Almost as much as the s**t eating grin you gave us when sitting in the Delorian,, :-)
Nice teardown, thanks for taking the time to do it. Amazing so much damage when all of the bearings look in good condition. Now it just needs a bit of JB weld, reassembling and it's good to go!
Coolant leaked into the oil which caused overheating which blew the head gasket which caused the hydrolock. It all started from a bad O ring on the water pump. Great video!
My neighbor is elderly, and owned a Jeep Rubicon that had 3.6 Pentastar that was trash. An engine that was never driven hard, it had major problems. Donated it to car donation center, it was running, but needing a new engine.
You should use a breaker bar and an impact socket to loosen large bolts, THEN use the impact driver. You'll burn up your driver in short order if you do not... Great video!
Even if you take the cam caps off in wrong order and mix them...they all have indicators stamped into them, telling you both which order and orientation to put them back on again...small insignificant fyi in case you end up salvaging this sorta stuff. 😅
Seeing how this is your first offical teardown on you tube take blown rod n piston n tack weld together for a display in office make a wood back ground n put on office wall....and use a breaker bar to bust bolts to keep extra w e AR from happening to your impacts
I think your hypothesis is spot on. Liquid must have somehow been ingested into the combustion chamber and since liquids are not very compressible, something else had to give, namely the pistons and connecting rods.
It must have happened under heavy load as well. Possibly the water pump pushing a lot of coolant into the cylinder under high RPM, which caused the piston and connecting rod to shatter? If it was a gradual fill of liquid under low load or idle then it would have hydrolocked but just caused a stall.
I like you put that! Technically speaking, you CAN compress a liquid, but you'd need a large industrial plant with lots of very expensive equipment in order to do.
There appears to be a large Silver/grey automobile sat to one side of the workshop, looking a little sad and neglected right now, and pleading to be healed and become complete once more Mr Rainman Sir
From across the pond in sunless England, not jealous of your lovely warm sunshine. We love rain that’s why we have so much. 😂 recently subscribed to your channel. Sadly your version of junk vehicles make ours look awesome. I’ve got a 2012 diesel Renault (opal/nissan/vauxhall) with a larger block Nissan engine. Water landed on the injectors and welded the rusty crap into the head. V4 1.9dci 115bhp. My mechanic used a puller slide hammer injector press then trolley jack. The head snapped. But the injectors didn’t. The sort of job you’d love 😂😂 keep clicking. Superb videos mate 👍
Rainman definitely hydro lock water dues not compress that is a fact! Head gasket leaked steam cleaned the top of piston and combustion chamber!! I am a retired Rocket Engineer that likes to rebuild engines! I liked you taking the time to play with the 3.6L Pentastar engine! Thanks! Ceeb
Although I've replaced many of these engines either from tensioner failures causing total devastation or thrown rod or no compression I've never gotten to tear one down great video
Cylinder 3 had low compression. That's evidence of a head gasket leak leading to hydrolock. The rings were good, so that's where the problem came from. Great autopsy!
The leak wasn't an immediate catastrophic failure. It took a few cycles to steam clean the top of the piston before the hydrolock. There's an upside to the disaster. That scrap aluminum can make a lot of beer cans.
Because you see a lower end failure, dissecting the upper end for anything but parts is just for fun. When rebuilding an engine. You measure all frictional surgaces, bores and related. With the block damaged like this one, it is a boat anchor.
i had a ford 460 cid and blew a rod the same way. it was caused by over reving the engine. you can tell this by the middle of the rod breaking and leaving the crank end still on the crank and the piston end still in the piston
Love those repairs that require all kinds of tools. I do commercial hvac, love having recovery machine nitrogen, recovery cylinder, new refrigerant, cords gages, torches, toolbag etc on the roof. Whole van up the ladder
My son's 2015 dodge journey rt 3.6 broke the same connecting rod and made a hole in the block. Good thing he had a aftermarket warranty, we had records of all of his maintainence from the dealer it took 3 months to get it approved and repaired, they asked if he had driven it through deep water but he had not.
No real evidence of a leaking head gasket and also the injector leaking enough to cause hydro lock would have destroyed the pressure in the fuel rail and probably stopped the engine before it could lock.... My money is on an external source. After all just before internal carnage ensued, there was a pretty big storm hit Florida and plenty of localised flooding, the customer could have driven through it. It's very possible that a case of bad luck where maybe they were driving through the not deeply flooded road on one side and an idiot in a high truck driving through on the other side washed flood water over the car and straight into the cold air intake. I live here in the UK and have seen this happen several times. Either way, it was an excellent video and a great change of pace from the usual content @RainmanRayRepairs Keep up the excellent work
The windage tray is to prevent the crankshaft from foaming the oil(through the circulation of air) which increases oil temperature and makes it easier to burn. Not the oil splash from hitting the crank. There are small engines designed to lubricate this way. Part of the reason not to over fill your oil.
small 4 cycle lawnmower engines and the like have an actual Dipper to splash oil on the crank.. it used to be they told you to run only non detergent oils in small engines to prevent foaming.. im niot sure at what size engines switch from passive lubrication to active
@eldoradoboy not sure there is a size. I've seen 14hp splash lubed and 14hp pressure lubed. Maybe that area is the crossover point? Also a lot of small engines, at least Briggs and Stratton, use fins on the governor gear to sling the oil, as I'm sure you are aware. 🙂 I'm not sure if the dipper on the con rod method is used much anymore.
Never ceases to amaze me hoe designers, with gov input for requirements, can take a simple engine and make so complicated with duplicity, wet noodles, fuses for fuses, wiring for wires, controls for controls, emissions for emissions, make it almost impossible for even experienced mechanics to work on much less the average person!!! Now a days you have to go to a shop to get plugs changed when even a novice used to be able to do it in mere minutes!!! Absolutely no sense in it!
really glad you are back today i was getting a bit worried ,when the engine gets that bad i think it is time to say goodbye to it ,thanks for the very interesting video
I would have liked to see an more thorough inspection of the deck surface, head surface, and head gasket. You can sometimes see the passage coolant could have taken to get into the cylinder. Though it is usually more obvious from a long term leak.
Modern engines are amazing, when I started wrenching 6 bolt cross bolted mains , DOHC and 4 valves per cylinder were almost unheard of outside of Formula 1 type racing.
the other time I have seen a hydrolock with no obvious blown head gasket was when an injector hung open and dumped gas in. Washed the crown then cracked it similar to what you have here. I would check the flow on the injector for that cylinder.
yes, morning coffee with Ray, makes for a better day. Not a mechanic, so cannot guess on the failure. BUT, it was an interesting video and speculation that I really enjoyed.
FYI Ray, the 3.6 Penastar had some issues with design. These engines, the manufacturer in Mexico used a sand casting method to fabricate various parts of the engine. As it turns out, some of that sand was never removed before assembly, and was stuck in coolant passages in the head/block. Of course Chrysler/Fiat is keeping quiet and fighting any recalls.
Sand casting are related to fabrication method, and have noting related with Design. Sand casting is used to cast ALL motor block since you have to create passages for coolant inside them. Mexico may cheap out the process, indeed.
@@Chris-bq7nr sand casting that get cleaned and inspected yes. Not what has gone on though. When you can wash out nearly a cup of fine casting sand from the block heads and radiator that’s an on going problem with shit quality control in my opinion.
@tradde11 I believe it will end up a class action suit in the end but you can bet Chrysler will dig in their heels. Kind of like the Denso fuel pump issues that Toyota fought to not recall only to end with millions of all make’s being being recalled. Hell it took me 7 months waiting on pumps for 3 different vehicles sitting here and 13 more waiting with the owners. 3 years of litigation and no one had the bright idea of mass producing replacement fuel pumps.. crazy
Ray, I'd put money on a stuck injector. Between the piston being cleaned, a hydrolocking event, and a misfire, here's what I surmise happened. The customer was driving when the injector failed. It then filled the cylinder fuel of gas till it hydrolocked, cleaning the piston at the same time. It then snapped the connecting rod sending it through the block, ending back at your shop.
Thanks from England! I really enjoyed both the diag and teardown videos! I once had a smar car engine put as we say a leg out of bed middle cylinder. I never really determined the true cause of that if i remember. I consider it was maybe heat. The customers are never full of information. But geat video thanks.
You can see the oil pressure change on the pentastar with that pump. When cold start they go to high mode, ~80 PSI, you can see it switch to low as the pressure instantly drops to ~30 after a couple minutes. Also at constant throttle, the second you hit 3500RPM they go back to high mode and ive seen max out ~90PSI.
Those heads can warp if overheated. Strait edee the cylinder heads to see if they warped and let coolant fluid in. This is most often seen on the right side head and number 3 piston. It was seen most often in pre 2015 engines. A redesign of the head reduced this problem. The new head design was installed in all late 2014 and newer cylinder heads
Nice one Ray!! What you have there is a typical hydrolock issue. Overheated, gap between Head & block, cylinder fills with coolant, engine spinning at speed, & catastrophic failure.
Another awesome engine teardown video. Your right, the engine got coolant in the cylinder, and the engine hydrolocked and bent, then broke the connecting rod.
Just noticed the " Diesel Feature " for the affected cylinder didn't look to aim into the chamber like they did on the other cylinders. Could that be a factor?
TBH... it's difficult to say. The oil squirter might have gotten bent when pieces of the connecting rod were flying around and self-destructing everything.
Agree. Never really liked autopsy videos. I like the resolution of a problem fixed. It scratches the itch of why I watch these types of channels. Autopsy ones, don't scratch that itch. Good video otherwise!
I once had a job sorting out about 500kgs of nuts and bolts they were a combination of UNC UNF SEA plus they were every size imageable plus metric and imperial it was the biggest headache I ever had
Nice work, thanks for exploring and sharing. Was wondering if there was evidence of any coolant residue in the exhaust ports? After replacing both headgaskets on my 4.3, it took some time for the exhaust to clear the tell tale exhaust vapors. 👍♥️🇺🇸
judging by how dis-arrayed his benches, equip and carts always look, I'm bettin' on no sorting..if ya follow Eric O @ South Main Auto, you'll notice Eric is borderline Anal about putting his tools & instruments away as he works ;-)
My dad had a recent rebuilt International Harvester engine drop a piston rod just like this, but it only went thru the oil pan and not the block. Bad piston rod was the final diagnostic (it had a minute flaw as another one had the same flaw in the engine).
@@TonicofSonici've had three Chryslers, a 1980 Dodge Aspen, a 1991 Crysler Stratus, and a 1998 300m, all with different thinngs going wrong. So maybe i need a padded cell? Long story short; never again! 😅
@@ZSAZSS09 TBH I would have credited you with owning them before they were solidified as the unequivocally (IN FAUCI VOICE😅) worst auto brand on the US market.
I had an ATV engine I rebuilt where the (aluminum) piston had gotten so hot (due to lack of lubrication) that it melted through the skirts allowing the piston to separate from the wrist pin. Top part of connecting rod also had major scoring where the old wrist pin was however I took the scoring out with some Emory cloth and got the motor running again with a new wrist pin, piston, jug, and head. It's worth mentioning that the lubrication in the engine is splash lubrication so luckily there are no oil passages in the connecting rod to have been damaged.
Likely you got to it so early that it had not processed the higher res video yet. YT always starts with SD resolutions, then HD resolutions before it's all done.
If the lifters are ceased in the rocker it can bind open and closed.locking the cylender open or closed creating a misfire. By continuing to inject fuel it can hydrolock the cylender and make it bend and break the connecting rod. It will also make it a realy light ticking you may not hear.
I do not know anything about car engines but this video was cool to watch. I sure hope this never happens to my van, no way I'd ever be able to get it fixed.
I commend your due diligence. Whatever it is , before you throw it in a dumpster , pull every nut , bolt , spring and screw , because you never know and you rarely can find that specific one in the hardware store.
Are used to inspect brand new pistons, using fluorescent penetrant inspection. It was probably a defect when they manufactured .I would find quite a few pistons I didn’t pass because of cracking.
Injector went "full rich" perhaps and dumped fuel unrestricted into the cylinder? liquid fuel doesn't compress well. Number three had the misfire. Thanks for the look inside.
Look at the head and see if there is a crack or if the head is warped. You should have been here where I live yesterday and today, it was a smash up derby on the icy roads. A number of vehicles in the ditch when i was driving home. Around 4" of snow this morning.
51:53 Look at the oil squirter for Piston 3. Can't tell if was dislodged before after the cataclysmic failure or even during disassembly but something has happened to it. Wonder if a problem with that system could have had something to do with it?
LOL. You'll have that on those Chrysler jobs. Oh who am I kidding, people can and will blow up anything!
Great video Ray.
Seems to be more Chrysler issues then anything 😂
I thoroughly enjoyed this Ray, watched every minute .. the engineering into these engines warps my brain .. and that one brain cell tells me they needed couple more chains 🤣
Ray you will need to name your pry bar. Eric has Blue.
I was going to say, Did Ray change his name to Eric? Little malice in the combustion palace there. That parts good, then throws it just like you Eric.🤣
Should have done the collab on this lol
A former 2017 Pentastar owner here! I had a misfire in cyl 3 brought it to the dealer as it was under warranty. after 3 failed attempts for them to diag and fix I did a compression test and found it to be lacking. I brought it back again and they found the head gasket had failed and needed to be replaced. Long story short, it was a problem for that year and a lot of engines failed because it was not caught in time, so my guess would be the gasket failed and hydro locked the engine, destroying the piston and rod.
Old-school mechanic could diagnose problems before computers with stethoscope a compression tester, and a fuel pressure gauge.
Yes. But the problem is Ray had the head off and the rod did not fail before that, it failed after! Customers don't understand anything except their car is broken.
Rays ulterior motive for this teardown.......a healthy addition to the spare nut and bolt collection.
Ever try finding Metric hardware at the store? LOL
You can never have enough buckets full of hardware 😂
@@SomeRustyNuts. That’s what my dad always said. When he passed away we found endless coffee cans full of them squirreled away.
@douglasskaalrud6865 sounds like your dad was a wise man. Sorry to hear he is gone.
Ray is clearly feeding gravity today.
Please take a moment of silence for that poor Silveryrado feeling abandonned and sad.
😛 Silverado parts plosion, I noticed as he walked by it 🤣
Yeah! I want him working on my car! Dont you?
You can tell it was washed by fuel so it was a dead fuel injector just open letting fuel straight through
I'm guessing it was a leaking fuel injector that was causing the misfire all along, and it filled the cylinder and caused hydrolock. I've seen it before, and both times we were very lucky to get away with blown head gaskets. I'm definitely curious about that #3 injector, because that's what i was guessing the problem was the first time when it reeked of fuel in that cylinder
Id say your right...except the duration isnt correct. The misfire came with some enrichment of the trims but not a full skew. Its florida though, land of big rains, big puddles and casual flooding. Inspecting the air filter would probably tell the tale.
Would this show as low compression? Maybe from fuel washing down the cylinder walls.
I was guessing the low compression was a cracked ring or something from an _almost_ hydrolock situation.
As far as fuel trim, it's only reactive based off the o2 sensor. The computer has zero feedback from the injector, it just gives it signal to open. Keep in mind there's 5/6ths (or 2/3rds) of the exhaust mixing in to the one bad cylinder
@@lewzero Misinterpretation of what I was saying. The fuel trim data gives you a general idea of compensation even with a light misfire. It appeared in the original video that the injector was operating normally. Not to say it WAS or that it wasnt leaking just that the data he showed really didnt reflect that and neither did the cylinder wall or rest of the engine internals but especially bearing condition was great, not really suggestive of fuel dilution from an injector issue. But again, definitely could have been.
@@tedma8757 depends on the mechanical nature of the injector failure, but I tried to get a good look at the cylinder when he was showing that stuff, looking for piston scuffing and so on, and even bearing wear would indicate fuel dilution, none of which appears to be present. Given the recent weather in Florida, I lean on water ingestion.
There is a recall on a lot of those engines as well as several class action law suits. I am involved in one of them now. The problems revolve around the #3 cylinder misfires leading to cracked valves and head replacement. Look up that engine and read about the lawsuits as they are moving forward. Take pictures and keep the parts so that when the suit is settled your customer can get some money back. You are right these engines are self destructing a lot.
and most last the life of the vehicle without any problems at all
Sometimes shit happens even if you're good about maintenance
Did the customer opt for a new engine, or just junking the car?
@@mobility63Only The Shadow Knows (if you’re old enough to remember)😮
I wondered that, too. It seems like a lot of extra work to pull the engine before junking just for a curiosity autopsy, so I'm guessing the customer opted for a new engine.
I love how every post now features "Rich Men North of Richmond."
Ray, thanks for the autopsy showing me the inside of my engine. When I am driving the 2011 T&C across the country on vacation, now I will be picturing more clearly how any of those three timing chains or other internal engine parts can fail. This will be like my Halloween nightmare, just going on all year.
Hey, you clicked the link, I guess you did want to see how the sausage is made. LOL
@@BrainDamageBBQor how the sausage is digested.
G'day Ray, good to see you back. Was stating to get a little concerned after no uploads for a couple days.
What’s crazy is it’s decently built, 6 bolt mains, fractured rods (same tech Yamaha uses on sport bikes rods). Even has oil squirters lol
Based on the damage in the head, I would guess that there was a water in the combustion chamber event that hydro-locked the piston and broke a chunk out of the ring land. That piston chunk got between the piston and the head which jammed up the piston further causing the piston to break further and the rod to snap. the rest is just flailing metal.
I agree with hydro locked
I also agree with hydro lock
Yup and all caused by the defective water pump gasket shown rather early in the video. That would cause overheating of the block without the sensor indicating a problem since the sensor is in the thermostat housing. This engine has some major design issues 😮
Yes remember water came out of the exhaust when Ray dismantled it.
Ray you do a great job of explaining what you are going to do and what you are looking for. Then you do a great job of explaining what you are doing and seeing as you do it. And Finally you do a great job of explaining what you found or didn't find! Your attitude is positive, you appear to be honest, you are a hard worker, you seem to stand behind your work, you treat your wife and kids well, you don't cuss on videos (so I have confidence sharing your videos with friends, family, and our Church family), you are very smart, and you have a good sense of humor! I find your channel educational and entertaining! Keep up the great work and may God bless you and yours real good!
Ray, your truck is starting to look like my treadmill , a catch all
This was interesting to see the engine construction but it would seem the truck reassembly would be more important.🤔
😂😂
Wait until the vines start growing over it. Lol😂😅😊
🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂
Love the Engine forensics you do Ray. Keep up the great content.
end of autopsy... "unfortunately it didn't give us any more information than what we already didn't know." Love it. That's one of the reasons I love watching Ray. What a classic quote! I really enjoyed this breakdown. Thanks Ray!
The Silverado looking a little sad sitting at the third rack. Can't wait to see more videos of her and back on the road again
When you found a clean piston that screams water. Look real close at the gasket. Its not a huge leak. Im sure it did not take much with aluminum. Would have thought you would see steam out the tail pipe? TY for the autopsy. It was interesting to see just what happened.
Ray failed to closely inspect the gasket and the block which had clear signs of water leakage.
It's Florida. Hard to tell the difference between steam from the tailpipe vs. steam off the gulf or glades. lol.
Reminds me of when I was young, out on the town, at the end of the night, piston broke !
I think that if you had done a leak down test on #3 after discovering that it was low on compression, then that would have given you enough information to determine what caused the final destruction,, bubbles in the cooling system, hissing in the exhaust or intake, would have identified bad valves, or a crack in the head or cylinder, or a leaky head gasket,,, if none of that was evident, then the only thing left would be excess fuel in the cylinder on start up which could have damaged the rod enough to let go later on, great video as always Ray,,, Always enjoy your commentary,, Almost as much as the s**t eating grin you gave us when sitting in the Delorian,, :-)
Nice teardown, thanks for taking the time to do it. Amazing so much damage when all of the bearings look in good condition. Now it just needs a bit of JB weld, reassembling and it's good to go!
Coolant leaked into the oil which caused overheating which blew the head gasket which caused the hydrolock. It all started from a bad O ring on the water pump. Great video!
Jiffy Lube technician overfilled the blinker fluid reservoir which led to hydro-lock.
i'm not a mechanic, but that "seems" to be where the problem started...
My neighbor is elderly, and owned a Jeep Rubicon that had 3.6 Pentastar that was trash. An engine that was never driven hard, it had major problems. Donated it to car donation center, it was running, but needing a new engine.
You should use a breaker bar and an impact socket to loosen large bolts, THEN use the impact driver. You'll burn up your driver in short order if you do not...
Great video!
judging from checking out the prices of some of the tools he uses, I'm suspecting he doesnt concern himself much w/the cost of replacement
Even if you take the cam caps off in wrong order and mix them...they all have indicators stamped into them, telling you both which order and orientation to put them back on again...small insignificant fyi in case you end up salvaging this sorta stuff. 😅
I had an engine that blew because of lack of oil but I never seen something like this before nice job Ray
Seeing how this is your first offical teardown on you tube take blown rod n piston n tack weld together for a display in office make a wood back ground n put on office wall....and use a breaker bar to bust bolts to keep extra w e AR from happening to your impacts
I think your hypothesis is spot on. Liquid must have somehow been ingested into the combustion chamber and since liquids are not very compressible, something else had to give, namely the pistons and connecting rods.
I agree. Seen it before.
It must have happened under heavy load as well. Possibly the water pump pushing a lot of coolant into the cylinder under high RPM, which caused the piston and connecting rod to shatter? If it was a gradual fill of liquid under low load or idle then it would have hydrolocked but just caused a stall.
I like you put that! Technically speaking, you CAN compress a liquid, but you'd need a large industrial plant with lots of very expensive equipment in order to do.
@@Rekuzan Or a black hole. But those don't normally form inside of Fiat engines.
We can never have too much prybar action
There appears to be a large Silver/grey automobile sat to one side of the workshop, looking a little sad and neglected right now, and pleading to be healed and become complete once more Mr Rainman Sir
From across the pond in sunless England, not jealous of your lovely warm sunshine. We love rain that’s why we have so much. 😂 recently subscribed to your channel. Sadly your version of junk vehicles make ours look awesome. I’ve got a 2012 diesel Renault (opal/nissan/vauxhall) with a larger block Nissan engine. Water landed on the injectors and welded the rusty crap into the head. V4 1.9dci 115bhp. My mechanic used a puller slide hammer injector press then trolley jack. The head snapped. But the injectors didn’t. The sort of job you’d love 😂😂 keep clicking. Superb videos mate 👍
More bolts for Ray to use when welding ..
Another excellent video Ray! I get a lot of enjoyment from your wrenching, running commentary and content. Keep up the good work!
Rainman definitely hydro lock water dues not compress that is a fact! Head gasket leaked steam cleaned the top of piston and combustion chamber!! I am a retired Rocket Engineer that likes to rebuild engines! I liked you taking the time to play with the 3.6L Pentastar engine! Thanks! Ceeb
Thanks for the smiley face
Glad to see you back. I love watching Ray and drinking coffee.
i'm blown away by how complicated these engines are (a lot going on inside)...
I really like these forensic videos! Thanks for doing them. Rainman Quincy, Engine Examiner.
Although I've replaced many of these engines either from tensioner failures causing total devastation or thrown rod or no compression I've never gotten to tear one down great video
I simply cannot BELIEVE you didn't remove that head gasket before poking the piston thru. 😆
This video brought flashbacks from my auto shop back in HS. We took an engine apart and then put it back together.
Cylinder 3 had low compression. That's evidence of a head gasket leak leading to hydrolock. The rings were good, so that's where the problem came from. Great autopsy!
Could have had an injector fail washing the cylinder causing low compression also.
The leak wasn't an immediate catastrophic failure. It took a few cycles to steam clean the top of the piston before the hydrolock.
There's an upside to the disaster. That scrap aluminum can make a lot of beer cans.
A bent rod would’ve led to low compression.
@@Casmige hydro locked would’ve broke the rod immediately therefore the rod wouldn’t have been bent Causing low compression.
Fuel wash will cause low compression readings ....
Because you see a lower end failure, dissecting the upper end for anything but parts is just for fun. When rebuilding an engine. You measure all frictional surgaces, bores and related. With the block damaged like this one, it is a boat anchor.
i had a ford 460 cid and blew a rod the same way. it was caused by over reving the engine. you can tell this by the middle of the rod breaking and leaving the crank end still on the crank and the piston end still in the piston
Bad engine/abusive owner and try to kill the 'Messenger'...
Love those repairs that require all kinds of tools. I do commercial hvac, love having recovery machine nitrogen, recovery cylinder, new refrigerant, cords gages, torches, toolbag etc on the roof. Whole van up the ladder
nice change of pace. the autopsy was quite informative, keep up the good work, and, it wasn't too long!
My son's 2015 dodge journey rt 3.6 broke the same connecting rod and made a hole in the block. Good thing he had a aftermarket warranty, we had records of all of his maintainence from the dealer it took 3 months to get it approved and repaired, they asked if he had driven it through deep water but he had not.
Either leaking injector or head gasket caused hydro lock. Fuel will clean it too.
The misfire suggests to me that it could be unburnt fuel...
No real evidence of a leaking head gasket and also the injector leaking enough to cause hydro lock would have destroyed the pressure in the fuel rail and probably stopped the engine before it could lock.... My money is on an external source. After all just before internal carnage ensued, there was a pretty big storm hit Florida and plenty of localised flooding, the customer could have driven through it. It's very possible that a case of bad luck where maybe they were driving through the not deeply flooded road on one side and an idiot in a high truck driving through on the other side washed flood water over the car and straight into the cold air intake. I live here in the UK and have seen this happen several times. Either way, it was an excellent video and a great change of pace from the usual content @RainmanRayRepairs Keep up the excellent work
and a great day to you as well, Ray
The windage tray is to prevent the crankshaft from foaming the oil(through the circulation of air) which increases oil temperature and makes it easier to burn. Not the oil splash from hitting the crank. There are small engines designed to lubricate this way. Part of the reason not to over fill your oil.
Also to keep the Oil near the pickup tube under heavy GEE forces.
@@scotthassett2676 I work ships so no G forces for me 😞
small 4 cycle lawnmower engines and the like have an actual Dipper to splash oil on the crank.. it used to be they told you to run only non detergent oils in small engines to prevent foaming.. im niot sure at what size engines switch from passive lubrication to active
@eldoradoboy not sure there is a size. I've seen 14hp splash lubed and 14hp pressure lubed. Maybe that area is the crossover point? Also a lot of small engines, at least Briggs and Stratton, use fins on the governor gear to sling the oil, as I'm sure you are aware. 🙂 I'm not sure if the dipper on the con rod method is used much anymore.
Did y'all hear Anthony Oliver singing in the background when he was removing pistons???
The slant six was a great engine easy to work on had it in a.60 Dodge as a teenager
Dave finally says hi an we got to see him , an loved the last video where wife unit trolls you with the do le do's 😅
Good to see a mid week engine teardown while waiting for my weekly I Do Cars fix on the weekend
Never ceases to amaze me hoe designers, with gov input for requirements, can take a simple engine and make so complicated with duplicity, wet noodles, fuses for fuses, wiring for wires, controls for controls, emissions for emissions, make it almost impossible for even experienced mechanics to work on much less the average person!!! Now a days you have to go to a shop to get plugs changed when even a novice used to be able to do it in mere minutes!!! Absolutely no sense in it!
It is a good lesson. Treat an engine overheating issue very carefully.
That was almost surely due to hydro lock. That would also explain the misfire as coolant entered the cylinder.
and bent rod which then broke
really glad you are back today i was getting a bit worried ,when the engine gets that bad i think it is time to say goodbye to it ,thanks for the very interesting video
I would have liked to see an more thorough inspection of the deck surface, head surface, and head gasket. You can sometimes see the passage coolant could have taken to get into the cylinder. Though it is usually more obvious from a long term leak.
The block showed clear signs of where the coolant leaked through from the water jacket to the cylinder.
Modern engines are amazing, when I started wrenching 6 bolt cross bolted mains , DOHC and 4 valves per cylinder were almost unheard of outside of Formula 1 type racing.
The contrast between Ray and Eric is striking. Ray pulls the engine apart so unceremoniously 😂
Ray's gonna get an infection if he keeps going from back to front.
The one thing they do have in common, however, is talking about the mess the teardown is leaving on the floor. 😊😊
I was expecting to see a comment from Eric pinned but it seems he hasn't watched the video. Yet. 😊
Ray doesnt do the "Eric oh nooo.. that doesnt go there. Uh huh. Hmmm. Destruction in the combustion palace:. Thing... Ray needs to catch up. Lmao!
To be fair, Ray isn't intending to resell the undamaged parts, so no need to be careful.
the other time I have seen a hydrolock with no obvious blown head gasket was when an injector hung open and dumped gas in. Washed the crown then cracked it similar to what you have here. I would check the flow on the injector for that cylinder.
Love the Eric-style tossing of saveable parts to the ground 🤣🤣
yes, morning coffee with Ray, makes for a better day.
Not a mechanic, so cannot guess on the failure. BUT, it was an interesting video and speculation that I really enjoyed.
FYI Ray, the 3.6 Penastar had some issues with design. These engines, the manufacturer in Mexico used a sand casting method to fabricate various parts of the engine. As it turns out, some of that sand was never removed before assembly, and was stuck in coolant passages in the head/block.
Of course Chrysler/Fiat is keeping quiet and fighting any recalls.
Sorta like the earlier timers...flip it over and watch the sand fill up...😊
Sand casting are related to fabrication method, and have noting related with Design.
Sand casting is used to cast ALL motor block since you have to create passages for coolant inside them.
Mexico may cheap out the process, indeed.
@@Chris-bq7nr sand casting that get cleaned and inspected yes. Not what has gone on though. When you can wash out nearly a cup of fine casting sand from the block heads and radiator that’s an on going problem with shit quality control in my opinion.
@tradde11 yours isn’t the first and won’t be the last unfortunately.
@tradde11 I believe it will end up a class action suit in the end but you can bet Chrysler will dig in their heels. Kind of like the Denso fuel pump issues that Toyota fought to not recall only to end with millions of all make’s being being recalled. Hell it took me 7 months waiting on pumps for 3 different vehicles sitting here and 13 more waiting with the owners. 3 years of litigation and no one had the bright idea of mass producing replacement fuel pumps.. crazy
Ray, I'd put money on a stuck injector. Between the piston being cleaned, a hydrolocking event, and a misfire, here's what I surmise happened. The customer was driving when the injector failed. It then filled the cylinder fuel of gas till it hydrolocked, cleaning the piston at the same time. It then snapped the connecting rod sending it through the block, ending back at your shop.
I wonder if the piston wash was caused by bad fuel injector dumping excess amount of fuel causing hydrolock
He said the piston looked like the carbon boiled away making it look clean. It must have been coolant.
Thanks from England! I really enjoyed both the diag and teardown videos! I once had a smar car engine put as we say a leg out of bed middle cylinder. I never really determined the true cause of that if i remember. I consider it was maybe heat. The customers are never full of information. But geat video thanks.
You can see the oil pressure change on the pentastar with that pump. When cold start they go to high mode, ~80 PSI, you can see it switch to low as the pressure instantly drops to ~30 after a couple minutes. Also at constant throttle, the second you hit 3500RPM they go back to high mode and ive seen max out ~90PSI.
Yep, I noticed that with mine. Dry start motors, wish I could “prime” before starting to get a bit of oil in the cylinders.
Those heads can warp if overheated. Strait edee the cylinder heads to see if they warped and let coolant fluid in. This is most often seen on the right side head and number 3 piston. It was seen most often in pre 2015 engines. A redesign of the head reduced this problem. The new head design was installed in all late 2014 and newer cylinder heads
Windage tray, keeps the pressure from the down stroke of the pistons blowing the oil up and away from the sump, keeping the pump from cavitation.
I needed that water pump!! Noooooo don’t throw it out!!!
Looks like Eric has no worries with you as a tear down mechanic
Nice one Ray!! What you have there is a typical hydrolock issue. Overheated, gap between Head & block, cylinder fills with coolant, engine spinning at speed, & catastrophic failure.
Next week on I Do Cars, watch Eric use up a can of Brake Clean, throw it and shout "Another!"
😂😂😂 Good one! Or Eric says "unclick"
@@fluxfirax5.56 😄
Another awesome engine teardown video. Your right, the engine got coolant in the cylinder, and the engine hydrolocked and bent, then broke the connecting rod.
Just noticed the " Diesel Feature " for the affected cylinder didn't look to aim into the chamber like they did on the other cylinders. Could that be a factor?
Probably bent when the connecting rod hit it.
I'd bet the rod carnage bent it.
TBH... it's difficult to say. The oil squirter might have gotten bent when pieces of the connecting rod were flying around and self-destructing everything.
The oil squirter probably got beat into submission and slapped into a different location when the piston rod was flailing.
YES!!! I've been waiting for this autopsy.....and was beginning to think it wouldn't happen.
It's better to fix problems and get things working.
But these autopsy investigation videos are always fun to follow along with.
Agree. Never really liked autopsy videos. I like the resolution of a problem fixed. It scratches the itch of why I watch these types of channels. Autopsy ones, don't scratch that itch.
Good video otherwise!
I once had a job sorting out about 500kgs of nuts and bolts they were a combination of UNC UNF SEA plus they were every size imageable plus metric and imperial it was the biggest headache I ever had
Nice work, thanks for exploring and sharing. Was wondering if there was evidence of any coolant residue in the exhaust ports?
After replacing both headgaskets on my 4.3, it took some time for the exhaust to clear the tell tale exhaust vapors.
👍♥️🇺🇸
Same thing happened to my jeep 4.0 after a HG job, was still blowing out the exhaust for around 10 minutes, thought for sure I messed something up.
Great video and one of the strangest I think I have ever seen for no cause for the broken piston.
I would like to see Ray's bolt collection. Is it just a bucket to sort through, or an organized container?😊
judging by how dis-arrayed his benches, equip and carts always look, I'm bettin' on no sorting..if ya follow Eric O @ South Main Auto, you'll notice Eric is borderline Anal about putting his tools & instruments away as he works ;-)
I just bought a ten drawer used tool box to dump my 3 buckets of nuts and bolts in.
Maybe measuring the cylinder would have helped could have been a fuel wash situation
Wow. Was worried about you Ray. Glad you’re back.
I was hoping he was just too busy keeping life going.
And he's back!
My dad had a recent rebuilt International Harvester engine drop a piston rod just like this, but it only went thru the oil pan and not the block. Bad piston rod was the final diagnostic (it had a minute flaw as another one had the same flaw in the engine).
No blown head gasket...no coolant in oil right? Possibly a leaking injector. That would also clean the piston and cause it to hydrolock 🧐
He replaced that injector
Well one good thing u have some spare parts that are good. And a ton of fasteners now
I was curious if the owner blamed you for this failure. Did they donate the car to you after destruction?
Love the music while pulling the rod caps! Got an 11 Journey Pentastar, 150k, cant complain!
Good lordy. The Engineers that designed these cluster ____ engines should all be in padded rooms.
It's about profit. Make it as cheap as possible and just good enough to get through the warranty.
Look at the results. Maybe they are😅
Anyone who buys a dodge/chrystler needs to be in a padded room.
@@TonicofSonici've had three Chryslers, a 1980 Dodge Aspen, a 1991 Crysler Stratus, and a 1998 300m, all with different thinngs going wrong. So maybe i need a padded cell? Long story short; never again! 😅
@@ZSAZSS09 TBH I would have credited you with owning them before they were solidified as the unequivocally (IN FAUCI VOICE😅) worst auto brand on the US market.
I had an ATV engine I rebuilt where the (aluminum) piston had gotten so hot (due to lack of lubrication) that it melted through the skirts allowing the piston to separate from the wrist pin. Top part of connecting rod also had major scoring where the old wrist pin was however I took the scoring out with some Emory cloth and got the motor running again with a new wrist pin, piston, jug, and head. It's worth mentioning that the lubrication in the engine is splash lubrication so luckily there are no oil passages in the connecting rod to have been damaged.
Is it just me or is the highest quality available on this video 240p ?
Just you!
It was for me but now it's showing the full selection of quality choices.
It might be your Internet, I'm showing 720.
Likely you got to it so early that it had not processed the higher res video yet. YT always starts with SD resolutions, then HD resolutions before it's all done.
@@deplorablelibertarian1080 here
If the lifters are ceased in the rocker it can bind open and closed.locking the cylender open or closed creating a misfire. By continuing to inject fuel it can hydrolock the cylender and make it bend and break the connecting rod. It will also make it a realy light ticking you may not hear.
ok so never buy a car / van with a 3.6 Pentastar
buy new and trade in at 30.000 miles for other one.
Unless it already got the FREE new motor, you're OK.
I do not know anything about car engines but this video was cool to watch. I sure hope this never happens to my van, no way I'd ever be able to get it fixed.
I commend your due diligence. Whatever it is , before you throw it in a dumpster , pull every nut , bolt , spring and screw , because you never know and you rarely can find that specific one in the hardware store.
Good to see the Raymond back. Missed watching you with my morning cuppa !
Are used to inspect brand new pistons, using fluorescent penetrant inspection. It was probably a defect when they manufactured .I would find quite a few pistons I didn’t pass because of cracking.
Injector went "full rich" perhaps and dumped fuel unrestricted into the cylinder? liquid fuel doesn't compress well. Number three had the misfire. Thanks for the look inside.
Look at the head and see if there is a crack or if the head is warped. You should have been here where I live yesterday and today, it was a smash up derby on the icy roads. A number of vehicles in the ditch when i was driving home. Around 4" of snow this morning.
Yes Ray, you can "Pry Bar Everything", the outcomes are indeterminate.
51:53 Look at the oil squirter for Piston 3. Can't tell if was dislodged before after the cataclysmic failure or even during disassembly but something has happened to it. Wonder if a problem with that system could have had something to do with it?
And just like I Do Cars videos, the wrist pin survives unscathed. The engine woke up that morning and chose violence. Top notch teardown sir.👍👍