Will There Be ANOTHER Charismatic Renewal? w/ Ralph Martin
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- Опубликовано: 13 дек 2021
- This clip was taken from a recent livestream with Ralph Martin. Watch the full interview here: • A Church in Crisis w/ ...
In this clip, Matt asks Ralph if there's going to be another Charismatic Renewal.
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The "Charismatic Renewal" definitely did more to Protestantize Catholics than it to Catholicize, i.e. convert, Protestants. I say this as a Pentecostal who, by the Grace of God, converted to Catholicism.
It seems like he is say that whipping up feelings is more important than the interior life.
Will there be another Charismatic Movement? Yes! It’s the Traditional movement and it is on fire with love for Christ and His true presence in the Eucharist!
I appreciate Ralph Martin's words and cannot find fault with them. However, I feel there are some charismatic groups within the Chuch that take this too far. E.g. they pray for a separate “baptism of the Holy Spirit”, as if you haven't already received the Holy Spirit at water baptism, and as if you need to experience or feel something one time in order to be a “spiritual” Catholic. It's a mixed message because, on the one hand, we're told not to rely too strongly on feelings in the spiritual life and then, on the other, some charismatic groups imply that if you don't feel an initial experience, you're not truly in the spiritual life in the first place. If taken too far, it devalues the sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Eucharist and makes Catholicism more like Protestant Charismaticism. As a former Protestant Charismatic who became Catholic, I appreciate the balance in Ralph's words but I do think some Charismatic groups take it too far - as I'm sure Ralph would agree with. PS. Ralph's book “the Fulfillment of All Desire” is incredible - highly recommended!
I went to a charismatic youth confererence when I was sixteen. By the end of it, I was worn out, stressed out, and freaked out. Most of all, I was frustrated and confused as to why I didn't have the experience that everyone said I would have, and that everyone else seemed to have; I felt intrinsically flawed because I didn't feel that God spoke to me at all throughout the entire weekend.
So imagine what a relief it was when, a year and a half later, I realized that God does speak to me, He just didn't speak to me through that like everyone said He would.
@@adamc7987 Indeed, good to hear your story and how you've found how God speaks to you differently. There are many people who've felt similarly to you when they didn't experience what they thought they should've.
There were "Charismatics" in the 3rd Century. With the coming Reign of Mary, don't worry, the movement will fizzle out like it did back then as well.
Super-artificial movement that it is!
Nothing new under the sun.
Same
@@CatholicaTV I agree that some parts of the movement are suspect. I think this happens with every new movement which is upcoming.
However, I do think that the Holy Spirit is at work in most of these people too and is expressing Himself in different ways.
I agree about the theological problem with a “second” “baptism of the spirit”.
Jesus Himself defines the baptism of John as being with water and a baptism of repentance.
And He also says that a baptism will come after His resurrection which will be of the Holy Spirit.
So, I don’t agree that there can be a further baptism defined by the Charismatic Movement.
It doesn’t concur with Catholic teaching- baptism makes the soul indelibly as does priesthood.
I love Ralph Martin. He is such a blessing to the church. He's explanation and defense of the charismatic movement is flawless and you can see that his arguments are coming from the Holy Spirit. Amen
If I’m not mistaken Fr Ripperger talked about “charismatic” movements. I might have it confused with something else so if I am I apologize. But from what I remember he was saying to be careful because you base your faith on feelings vs pleasing God no matter what in these “charismatic” movements. Then it goes to where you look for that feeling instead of looking to please God in all you do. There will be dry moments that many of the Saints have talked about but during those dry moments you need to persevere through. Like I said if I am getting confused on what he was talking about I apologize but please look it up for yourself, but faith and how we live our lives is not how it makes us feel, it’s about being humble and doing all for God (His will be done).
Fr. Ripperger did talk about this. He said to be careful about inviting the holy spirit to speak through or influence you because it might be demonic rather than from God.
@@peepeenuggerman5717 ok thanks. I just didn’t want to misspeak what he said. Fr Ripperger is awesome!
I am all in for more traditional Catholic orthodox teaching. Watered down Catholism attracts no one. We are in a spiritual war.
Mankind has always been in a spiritual war. It is just more evident now.
I think we have looked too much out to others for direction in this world instead of looking inward and to the past. I think we don't need another "charismatic" movement but to be real Catholics again
You are correct sir
Well said ... Shorter and more clear than this video--much appreciated!
Love this since I came from Pentecost into Catholicism always wondered why the gifts & fire baptism aren’t moving within the true Church!
Praying!
Talking about fruitfulness of the sacraments, I’d be interested in a discussion of when children should be confirmed. In my diocese, third graders are being confirmed. I’ve heard arguments for and against this, but I am not sure if I would want my children to be confirmed that young. I’d want them to be able to fully understand and participate in the sacrament in a way I don’t think young children are always capable of.
I can totally relate to what Dr Martin says about the Confirmation. Even though I can feel the fire, I just don't know what to do with it. Anybody with a similar experience?
The sacrament of confirmation experience was straight up charismatic and....I didn't care for it. People we're laughing, crying, fainting in front of the blessed sacrament. Like.....why? I remember feeling emotional but that was because the band was sooo loud blaring in my ear.
sounds awful
@@bradswanson7919 honestly the retreat was one of the memorable moments of my life, just wish it wasn't filled with all that fluff. Silence. Let Jesus talk.
It's like they intentionally fill the air so nobody can hear him.
No wonder there are lack of vocations. Those moments are seeds planted and it's immediately taken away before they hit the ground.
@@joncerda351 It's almost a sign of unbelief. It's like they are saying that the mysteries in and of themselves aren't enough. Such a bummer to have all that unbelief clog up your experience.😕
@@bradswanson7919 That’s a good point. As a Protestant when I see over-emotional and loud music in a church I’m immediately annoyed because they’re trying to manufacture an experience (using the excuse that they’re “creating an atmosphere for worship) instead of trusting the Holy Spirit to work through Scripture, sound theological hymns and sound exegesis.
Although we have to be cautious so that is true , we know by fruits yet we are truly all pilgrims making our way personal conversion of life
I hope, I pray and try to act as if that would be the case!
Dr. Martin I enjoy and appreciate your instruction!
When i think charismatic, i tend to imagine the Holy Spirit setting people on fire for the love of God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
That movement and experience then leads to others being set on fire for the Lord.
I hope and pray for more conversions of all peoples ✝️🙏✝️
Anybody else hear a train?
😂😂😂😂😂
I really respect Ralph Martin, a great defender of our Faith.....really surprised that he's a charismatic, he seems so well versed in Tradition.
He's literally one of the FOUNDING members of the early movement. He was baptized in the spirit and participated in the first months, started the word of god community in Ann Arbor and he's the head of the sword of the spirit organization. You cannot POSSIBLY get more charismatic than this one... (Since it's not my native language I put caps for the emphasis)
I hope Not, they caused great harm and abuse of Children in the 1980s. With group confessions, prayer groups in a house near the church not in the church. Babbling like idiots 🙄. Traumatised many young Catholics. I nearly never walked into a church again I was 14. So pleased I found tradition, it makes much more sense.
Yes, the "speaking" in tongues babbling pentecostal movement really messed me up. I was taught I'm not saved unless I speak in tongues baptized jn holy spirit . Now I'm so scared of not being saved
@@teraguest6252 That's a near- Calvinist approach to Christianity. It doesn't belong anywhere near Catholicism, and I'm so sorry that you were forced to endure that. God bless you.
Yes. It is called "The Triumph of The Immaculate Heart"/"Reign of Mary".
Charismania will fizzle out like it came and did in the 3rd Century [Monatists] anyways.
God bless.
You hope
@@matthewashman1406 Devotion to The Immaculate Heart of Mary will crush it. It is a serpent-head within The Church!
Saints are made in secret. Now get to work scattering seeds on every ground and let the Holy Spirit work!
Hey Matt have you ever read any of the books from Father Peter Hockey? He was part of the charismatic renewal in the early 70's and has written about the Pentacost/charismatic movements of the 20th century, unity in the whole body of Christ, the Messianic Jewish movement, and the connection between all three of these things. He passed away in 2017 but he disciples Decon Johannes Fichtenbauer who I think would be a great interview.
Please God forbid such a thing
You preach great brother dr Martin
I’m so happy 😃
The Holy Spirit seems to despise me, even though I am scrupulous about being in the state of grace, loving God and others. You could say I'm an "impractical atheist".... I act as if God exists, worshipping, praying etc, even though, in my life, it's as if God doesn't exist. God, please, use this darkness for the benefit of people who truly have no faith 😭😭😭
This realization of yours is the beginning of repentance. Go to confession. I think that would be a good place to start from where you are now. As a recommendation, Brant Pitre’s Introduction to the Spiritual Life might give you the right direction. His books and lectures have also been instrumental to the growth of my spiritual life.
@@freda7961 Dude, I have repented. I'm repenting every day. I believe in God, I love God, and if I ever mess up, I make sure to make a good confession and keep going. It's just, these days, it's spiritual darkness. I know that's quite normal. But it hurts a lot.
@@aaroncarlin3074 Because you explicitly said that others could basically call you an “impractical atheists” and that in the way you live your life, it’s as if God doesn’t exist. I mean, that deserves TRUE repentance (and confession). If that’s how you live your life, then you haven’t truly repented. Repentance entails turning away from sin and turning toward/returning to God. You must remain conscious of this at every given moment, and must deliberately chose not “to live as though God doesn’t exist” every single time. Strive to overcome this “spiritual darkness” you are talking about with all your might. But first of all, like I said, repent and pray for the transforming power of His grace. Prayer is very important. I’m not saying that you don’t, but pray like you mean it, and let it stay within you. And as you said, you love God. Consciously keep that in mind also. I too have my difficulties, but verses such as Mark 12:30 tremendously help overcome these difficulties…think more of them as challenges if I might add, like, “If I love God, I won’t do this and that…”
@@freda7961 I said IMPRACTICAL atheist, not practical atheist..... A practical atheist lives as if God doesn't exist.
Meanwhile, I live as if God exists, even though it feels as if He doesn't. If I were an atheist, that would be a very impractical thing to do. Hence, my joking invention of the term "Impractical atheist." I love God - even though He seems distant.
Does that make more sense?
@@aaroncarlin3074 That makes more sense I think. The terms used made it difficult to understand in your original post, particularly the words you "act as if..." yet at the same time, "in my life, it's as if..." I thought the "acts as if" part --- because of the examples you mentioned --- meant that you do all the so-called religious acts (or maybe at least go through the motions), but for anything else you do, it's as if God doesn't exist, since you said, "in my life, it's as if God doesn't exist." Can you really blame anyone for misunderstanding that? Anyway, so it's more of a question of feelings then? That you don't feel Him? What are you expecting anyway? At any rate, we have the Eucharist, it can't get more intimate than that, can it?
Every Pope since John XXIII have supported the Charismatic Renewal.
Unfortunately, the feelings experience are so out of control.
Sound doctrine is necessary as part of the balance.
Amen and Amen
Come Holy Spirit please Come 🙏 Viva Cristo Rey 🙏
Fire,fall on me on the day of pentecost....
Come Holy Spirit!
Why dosent the church fathers talk abt this?
They did. Check out the book “ Sounds of Wonder “, by Deacon Eddie Ensley PhD. More importantly read 1st Corinthians chapters 12,13, and 14. As well as the book of Acts. The Catholic Church is the continuation of the book of Acts. Supernatural experience is the Normal not the Exception. Peace
God willing, no.
Another Revival? 'New Mass' 'New way of celebration of all Sacraments' 'New Catechism' 'New Code of Canon law' all you got New since 1967... what you have now is the result of 'New'....
11:09 on video. Right on. 🔥
I hope not, their has to be a Traditional renewal first.
The best episode!
I wish he'd get off this charismatic nonsense.
This is truly excellent.
I saw too much of this when I went to Protestant churches.
And in the new age movement ..
Exactly. The charismatic movement is diabolic in origin.
@@paxvobiscum9859 any type of what I term "spirit chasing " will get you in trouble.
Former new ager of many,many, many years....
@@paxvobiscum9859 It's literally not. Just because there's far too many misguided and deceived protestants who engage in this sort of behavior, it doesn't make charismatic "movements" in the confines of the Catholic Church bad. My brother, for example, had a beautiful encounter/experience during a Charismatic "meeting" in the Church of a priest who we like very much. The whole "meeting" so-to-speak was overseen by the priest and there was nothing wrong or bad in it.
A charismatic movement or meeting isn't necessarily bad. It is like fire, which can be tempered and controlled for great benefit or it can be absolutely devastating for the people involved.
@@csongorarpad4670 No. The faith is based on knowledge of God, not materialist feelings.
@@RealAugustusAutumn Charisma is not material feelings. Have you no clue about the Charismatic movement in our Church? It's a genuine question because you are questioning a tradition within the Church that is not contradictory to the teaching's.
You are making a generalizing statements about charismatic movements, overall, which leads to you alienating and dismissing the Charismatic movements within our own Church, which is just asinine and ignorant.
Just RESPOND to the Sacrament of Confirmation.. Ask ,Come Holy Spirit.
Can't wait to go into the comments to see what the real theologians have to say
@@T_frog1 actually you would be wrong. Most youtube commenters don't have any idea of what they are talking about.
@@FFunez I believe the OP was typed tongue-in-cheek.
There should be no division between traditional Catholicism and the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. Both movements can have problems when taken too far to the extreme.
I ain't charismatic but I am a former Baptist
I remember once hanging out at my parish before mass. I was talking to my friend and I told him I had a prophetic dream about a friend of mine. It doesn't happen often and I'm very, very selective who I talk to about it personally.
This guy legit told me," I think prophecies and miracles are gypsy stuff."
I was so shocked and just immediately started referencing scriptures about miracles being I the Body of Christ.
Maybe there is something to this charismatic catholicism.
Part of what Vatican 2 was all about
Matt Fradds mic is out of phase or something. There’s like a flange on it
9:37 The term ?
“Baptized in the Holy Spirit” “plunged”
@@blessingsuponblessings Yes i know. He had difficulty saying it.
@@awdat oh I see
Spot on Ralph
Love You, Doctor Martin
I’m a Lutheran charismatic. Not many of us around.
The Holy Spirit does act supernaturally in these groups, but we as Catholics do have to be careful that the CR does not copy-paste everything from the Pentecostals. It seems sometimes that they copy everything like drinking water from a hose; without questioning or thinking critically about the input from the Pentecostal church. The CR should not look up to the Pentecostals, but should look for the Holy Spirit and the trinity as a whole (not in an imbalanced way). Emotions in the CR are placed in a high pedestal. Christianity is not about emotions, but about loving God and neighbor, as Jesus taught us. Those are the two greatest commandments. And that love is not always pretty emotionally. The crucifixion was not pretty, hence emotions is not the supreme value. Emotions could serve sometimes as a discernment tool, but not always, and certainly they are not God.
Could be so wrong please correct us Fr Ripperger said if we don’t repent we will be “ spanked “ by God .. God will correct His people, I think he is saying that we need to be better people which is not easy truly disciples
Makes me wish I could get reConfirmed. And in the old Rite.
I did
@@mrs.smilson5463 that’s absurd
charasmatic movement aka protestant movement
Do you know about Duquesne Univ Catholic retreat 1967?
I think sometime people like being bitter s it’s anti charismatic
The Charismatic Renewal died out in the 1980s.
Good riddance! I'll take one single Dominican alone with his thoughts than a thousand charismatics running around like decapitated chickens any day of the week.
Marian consecretion is the only renewal of our baptismal promises ...apart from the devotion to the sacred heart of jesus and taking part in the holy sacrifice of Calvary the holy mass and the sacraments (all now being eclipsed by pro satanic priests )now only our lady can save us.....
St john maria vianney didn't say to dance/charismatic renewal of vice of fallen eve ... instead he admonished the vice of dance in any form which brings only vain glory ...as a catholic residing in India...I know pagans usually dance when they are filled with their so called gods( they call it)/possessed to be more accurate....
Yes, confirmation should be done individually, and only to adults, people who decide and organize it themselves. Not to teens for whom it's organized by schools and parents!
But confirmation must be down by a Bishop.
damnedmadman - I agree, but growing up in both the Catholic and Baptist churches, Protestants (or at least Baptists) happen to all magically "give their live to Christ" around the age of 8. I've argued with my Protestant friends that this is really no different than the process Catholic children and teens go through.
It should be done as infants.
@@johnpglackin345 Sure, but should be individual, just like baptism and marriage.
@@johnpglackin345 No it doesn't. The eastern churches don't use the bishop & most RCIA candidates & Catechumens are administered confirmation by the parish priest.
I agree. It seems that much of Catholicism has slid backwards into clericalism, similar to “rabbinical” Judaism. Meaning, away from the New Testament and back towards the Old Testament. That may not seem so bad until we remember just how wretched, pagan, and stuffed with all manner of sin we were back then (before the incredible saving Grace and Mercy of Jesus’s sacrifice on behalf of all mankind). Why in the world would we ever purposefully let go of love that powerful?
Protestant influence.
This is why I stay away from Ralph.
I hope not. With all due respect to those involved, it’s done a lot of harm in my humble opinion.
Charismatics are just so far from "feeling Holy Spirit". We can feel Holy Spirit and His mercy only in the silence, and not jumping and playing instruments in the House of God.
Considering the Psalms themselves numerous times exhort the people of God to play instruments in the house of God, David dancing before the Ark, as well as Jesus rejoicing in the Spirit out loud and in public, I think there's a strong Biblical foundation for saying it's both/and, depending on our personal preferences. Neither of them seem to be inherently wrong according to Scripture, as long as we aren't like the Pharisees who do either to be lauded by men.
@@liveforever4190 ....Old Covenant forms of worship.
New Covenant is Eucharist, Mary, Papacy. Period.
@@thekingslady1 New covenant worship is to the Holy Trinity - One God. We don't worship Mary or the Papacy.
Hhmmmmmmmm ...
I never liked him on ewtn back in the day. Now I know why. Sorry Ralph, just go become a Prod.
Does Martin speak in languages that he doesn't know but other people understand? Another wolf in sheeps' clothing.
Totally false. Ralph is an expert on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal for near 50 years. Ralph wrote the widely used “Life In The Spirit Seminars” to ensure there was sound use and understanding of charismatic gifts. He always ensures sound Catholic doctrine is also a primary focus.
When the Holy Ghost speaks it tends to be in Latin. Mr. Martin shows his age with this quaint 60’s enthusiasm.
Why would the Holy Spirit speak in Latin? I have never heard that claim before.
@@SorrowfulJoy My besetting fault is sarcasm.
The Holy Spirit is the almighty God who is a spirit "God is a spirit". No "third person" exists.
What have you been taught about The Trinity?
@@David-rz3um
No trinity exists, Jesus had NO IDEA of what a triune God is supposed to be. He taught about the Father and the Son and their relationship. No relationship with a third person exists, check out the gospels.
What do you know about the doctrine of The Trinity?
Heretic
I hope not… return to true Catholic Tradition. That’s the future.