Is your 3D Printer Violating USA Sanctions??
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
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This is a rather new and ongoing story, but would love to hear your thoughts and opinions, but PLEASE keep political party bickering out of the comments
ALSO NOTE: its not just PSU`s, mornsun makes other electronic components like SSRs that can be found on controller boards.
The Chinese will just slap a different label on the PSU's. Problem solved.
that was my suggestion, fuck the gov
As a Application Engineer for DigiKey it is a lot work right now to find suitable substitutes for our customers. We really try our best. 💪
2:12 I love the freudian lapse "what does that MEAN-WELL" 😆
LONG story short. If you bought it before the ExOrd and don't sell it no problem. If you are in the US and you want to sell in a Private sale its prob fine ( seriously who is going to check? watch out for that FBI sting ) Most retailer are prob even fine selling any stock that they have *already imported* and paid for but that's technically bannd based on the really open wording of the document. Again good luck tracking it. But if you buy new stock from overseas or are otherwise buying and selling these items -Bad Monkey. Somehow I really doubt some customs inspector is going to be ripping open Bambu Labs printers but... They can. and whoever is importing said printer could be held to the penalties which are rather stiff in these types of sanctions. Fun times... But seriously something like this is always going on in countries all over the world. Why can't we all just get along?
Don't underestimate the US government on passing chance to stick it to the Chinese. I wouldn't be surprised if they would be checking bambulab printers for the psu's .
Indeed, I'm also not sure customs will open up constructed devices to see if there's a component that's on the list, but hey...they can. And if someone tells customs that company so and so uses said components, they have 'probable cause' and can inspect one and send back the whole shipment. I'm sure Bambu Lab is evaluating their options. They could be naughty and just slap another sticker on the PSU...
Companies like Digikey will surely suspend trading with the companies involved, just to prevent troubles with customs, fines, paid shipments that are send back or confiscated.
A big company like Bambu Labs is also likely able to file for an exception with a plan to change suppliers by a certain date and still get existing stock imported. Not a guarantee but I assume they will try for it.
Mornsun IS in the Sovol SV08.
As someone who imports stuff past customs and has it boxed and tagged as something else. They hardly check.
Also been a logistics broker and I can assure you customs doesn’t give a fuck.
Unless your a big fish and or the target of a sting cuz you pissed off the wrong person and someone gave them a tip, you aren’t gonna get caught.
For those who think this is a hassle, Yantai Iray Technology Co Ltd is amongst the sanctioned list. They go by a more common Western brand name 'InfiRay''; they produce image intesifer tube and thermal imager which have obvious military usage.
Can't see how this could apply to internal parts like PSUs. Where would it stop - resistors, screws etc..?
I bet we'll see products from China with PSUs relabelled with product manufacturer's own branding, or just labels removed at some point though.
Yes it can
LDO leviathan board uses MORNSUN components for the DC-DC converter for example.
AFAIK that can also fall under this ban
Yeah, COA and manufacturers are tracked with every component.
Screws, most likely not.
But small electronics components usually have a branding code on it which would render the board illegal if one component can be traced back to a banned manufacturer. Which also renders illegal the whole equipment
Agreed - I suspect there may be some delay as Chinese products yet-to-be-shipped to western markets get opened up to de-brand any blacklisted parts (peel stickers off, laser over any component markings, etc.) I strongly doubt most CN manufacturers will care in the long run.
Well, at least printers will probably come with meanwells now, so most likely a better PSU than before? Sucks they have to swap existing stock out though
Problem with eg. LDO v0, is that maximum what you can fit from mainstream meanwell is 150W and their kit needs more wattage, Mornsun 200W fit, next option is UHP series from Meanwell from meanwell, but they're more than 3× as expensive
Also Mornsun did not offer subpar quality compared to meanwell, often quite the opposite as LRS series is known to coil whine at low/idle loads
Mornsun PSUs are actually really good
Meanwell PSU in my printer is horrible. Super noisy (audibly).
@@_numanair_ lrs150 by any chance? Mine also has a high pitch sound
@@KittenRaeeuhp200 doesn't fit in a v0, the psu itself fits but you cant put on terminals afterwards, at least not to my liking (touching the skirts), you are looking at a hrp200, which is 70+- euros. I personally went with a sidewinder x1/x2 psu which is about the same footprint as a hrp, but delivers 240w and is 35 euros
Good info. Any PSUs already here (USA) are fine. It's not illegal to own one. I doubt it is even illegal to privately sell one. (or a printer with one) You just won't be able to buy one from any company that formerly sold them. As there are more than 2 companies in the world making PSUs, I really don't see this effecting any of us in any significant way. It may delay the release of new printers if they have them, or delay a kit from Aliexpress, but other than that, no big deal. The US is big on the "Grandfather" clause. If you got it before a law took effect, all is good.
Ya this doesnt effect the printer sitting on your self
this will affect vendors and importers though. which in turn, may delay your order of that new shiny toy ya want
I'm sure manufacturers in China will just export them to Korea or Japan, slap a new re-branded label on them, then sell them to the 3D printer manufacturers...
It's only violating sanctions to buy from them after they were placed on the sanction list. Possession from before is okay.
meanwell having a field day right now i guess lol
Might drive the cost of Mean Wells up so they can keep up with the new demand. Not surprised, but not much we can do about it as far as I know. Oh well. Not going to do anything about my printers with their components either.
*Laughs in meanwell*
Also a Canadian, so this doesn't really apply to me but I'm wondering how many layers this sanction goes down...
Bambu Lab is a Chinese company, not governed by the US. They can, in theory, buy all the Mornsun power supplies they want. Are they not allowed to import their printers because they have components from sanctioned companies?
If that's the case, how far does this go? If there are sanctions on a company that sells aluminum, which is used in some capacitors made by another company, which are used in a PSU from another different company, which is used in a 3d printer, is that 3d printer subject to the sanction?
Perhaps you should research how sanctions actually work.
@@powersv2 he don't, US imposed sanctions aren't set in stone and basically the most frequent violator of them is US itself
It's just a power supply, not like you can't swap in a dozen different substitutions.
A big huge nothing burger… The literal same exact identical power supply design is sold in the US, & will continue to be sold in the US by Meanwell. This exact switching power supply design is as copied & commoditized as Ender 3 clones.
The SV08 has one in it. I wonder if this is the cause of the delays.
I hope you are wrong. But knowing my own luck, I doubt you are.
…damnit
Would be kind of funny if all the companies that used those parts just decide to stop selling to people in the USA or add a USA version that's more expensive.
I mean. That is what they have to do. Either not sell it or use a different, compliant, part
They’ll have to pry my printer’s PSU from my cold dead hands!!!
I’ve been on the fence buying a voron and tonight I’m buying my kit. I don’t want to miss out because of the great power supply shortage of 2024… I was gonna buy in the next few days but now it’s tonight.
Wow, it applies to products already in the country and also applies to reselling.
Bambu and some other Chinese manufacturers are going to hurt from this.
Could also mean price increase for other brands.
This is the world’s tiniest problem.
I'm guessing this has something to do with Sovol's SV08 shipping delays.
No they just under estimated the demand
Oof. For mainland Chinese PSUs these are decent and reliable units. They're also a key manufacturer of magnetic and power semiconductor devices used all over the place. You can stop selling their products per se but you can't purge every trace of the company from the supply chain instantly like that.
Changing to Taiwanese PSUs would be nice but realistically that's just absolutely not going to happen. They'll pick someone else from China or find another way.
Usually there is a good reason someone lands on that sanction list though... Usually... it's difficult to say with 100% confidence.
I wonder what the reach of sanctions is. CUI appears to sell identical PSUs potentially manufactured by Mornsun, but... you aren't having any business dealings with Mornsun and there is no branding either. Also fully assembled devices, any business dealing involved that would benefit Mornsun which is a sanctioned entity is basically in the past. Given CUI is plenty big themselves, i'm sure they'll cut ties with Mornsun pronto and will source elsewhere in the near future, to avoid follow on sanctions.
There is certainly going to be a price hike situation going on with one of the major suppliers going away, maybe some scalper induced scarcity or the like.
We’re not talking about private people selling their printer, we’re talking about companies that sell them… but basically, it’s going to come down to when it was bought/sold. The worst thing that will happen to you, your ordered printer will be late, you aren’t going to jail and government agents aren’t coming to your door because you placed an order that has a banned power supply. The ONLY thing that this type of video will do is lead to wild stories (lies) and paranoid conspiracy theories.
I can confirm the Qidi Q1 Pro has a Mornsun LM350-10B24. Hopefully this doesn't hold up Qidi Printets from getting in.
Just checked Best Buy and they are no longer selling bambu or creality printers on their site. Micro center seems to still have them on their site though.
I do not think bestbuy sold the printers themselves and it was just a reseller using their site. So, it would be easy for bestbuy to just shot that down and not really be affected.
Clickbait, as long as they don't place future orders or russian power supplies they are ok you don't need to destroy stock already on hand nor disassemble kits already produced and sold. They will obviously switch suppliers or possibly sometime in the future face concequences! Plenty of Chinese power supplies the....cough Chinese 3D printer companies can get a hold of! Kind of an ignorant videoi! Stick with what you know about, plenty of false information already on RUclips from people speaking about stuff they no nothing about, please don't add to it! This is the same as my local Dominoes pizza guy delivering a pizza then because they are "in the food industry" try to explain to me how proteins are used inside the body! Import bans and sanctions are 2 different things! Import bans say these items can't be brought into the U.S. sanctions mean you can't due further business with an entity!
FJB, that being said, I just bought 100 of the banned PSU for my PLC projects. And I will continue selling my PLC systems with these PSU’s.
Yet another reason for not putting so much of our technological eggs in one basket.
Also, given this when will it be extended to include $1T+ companies whom have most of their greedy priced items manufactured and imported from certain countries.
Or are they exempt, whereby the little guy is the only one(s) that are harmed from such sanctions?
4:19 well you are and I would be able to buy them unless Canada and the UK also agree to this sanction but personally I feel sorry for this Company that has no control over its government but is been punished for the crap there doing, it’s a really dumb law it’s like your father or grandfather commits a crime and you have to go to prison for it, when you think of it like that it sounds really dumb.
And it dosnt really effect the government that’s been sanctioned that much as the US government can still buy parts it need/wants and big business can circumvent it but moving parts around the would and relabelling them.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, the US has never had a government that so doesn't act in the Countries interest.
meanwell ftw :D
That sucks. I feel bad for all the companies who have these in their machines.
Guess that's another pro for sourcing and building your own printer... You know what went in. Sidenote, meanwell ftw 🤣
I am also not a lawyer nor an American but, based on spending a decade as a law librarian, I would agree that this won't impact the possession or transfer of any item already in the United States and PAID FOR. Digikey will maintain minimal inventory on-site for most things, and very likely also has an agreement where the manufacturer doesn't receive full payment until Digikey sells the item on, which means they can't sell the PSU because that would mean giving giving Morrisun money, which is not allowed..
The order also prohibits importing the products, which means that companies like LDO or Bambu could face fines or even being added to the sanctions list if they try to bring the PSUs in as part of their printers; that then becomes a question of whether or not US Customs notices its happening. Printers already in the US could probably be sold legally, but new import probably not.
There is likely a rule burred somewhere in the details about when the "import" happens that would impact whether or not a shipment already in transit is affected, I hesitate to speculate there.
And yes, I agree that given the relationships between the US, Canada, and China, it's only a matter of time before Canada adds all those companies to their "naughty list" as well.
Customs are likely on the lookout for entire loads of hardware from specific companies that are sanctioned. The chance of customs detecting sanctioned hardware within an imported single assembled or kit 3D printer is miniscule. You could probably even order a single PSU from a sanctioned company and be very unfortunate to have it detected by customs. If you're buying from an online market such as Amazon, hardware from sanctioned companies are not something you need worry about either. So for solo end-users, this story is probably not a concern.
From my understand when important things you have to list manufacturer of components in some cases, that may lead to some shipments getting yoinked. Also Im already seeing vendors pull product from sale. This wont affect end users who have the product already, but importers and vendors will be in for some extra work
I come for the 3D Benchies, but stay for the Political Commentary.
Mornsun has tiny 200w PSU but meanwell doesn't, big sad.
If your 3d printer has this problem use old Xbox 360 power supplies
It would be interesting to see if this kicks off a movement of onshoring and self-sufficiency.
Good thing we're in Canada!!!
Oh you betcha
Cheaper kits on AliExpress from companies like FYSETC and Siboor will probably continue using Mornsun PSU's. I think the only way they would stop is if their kits start getting flagged at customs. For larger companies abiding by US trade legislation like Bambu it will be a little more complex as they'd have to secure a new supplier, hopefully Meanwell, and possibly swap out some of their existing PSUs in printers that have not finished their production. This would obviously eat in to Bambu's bottom line so changes in pricing, how ever unlikely, are not out of the question to make up the difference.
They will possibly just change the stickers on their power supplies.
@@itainahshon7247 I wouldn’t put it past them.
Damn, I just bought a FYSETC Prusa clone too
I confess! I did it it! Take me away!!!!
what does this "mean? well.." got it?
You could sell us some Kornsun PSU from Canada.
No one cares, but i need my power supplies 🙃 lol, there are olenty of other breands tho. Just pick one.
Not many other brands sell tiny 200W ones that doesn't look like it'll explode any second.
Nice tshirt :)
This explains why my SV08 hasn't shipped yet, despite buying during the early bird special. I was planning to swap in a Meanwell PSU anyways, but I hope for everyone else that they find a good quality PSU to swap in.
Doesn't US citizens and companies still allowed to buy it all? Moreover allowed to buy russian products directly? US just banned "buying russian and so colled supporters products" everyone except themselves?
If you've already bought one of those PS's, or already have them in stock, I would think that you can still sell them as the damage has been done, Morison has already been paid for that item. You just can't buy anymore from the company, and shipments from that company can be seized by customs. IOW I think that Digikey can sell what stock they have already paid for. Ditto for anyone else.
Fortunately power supplies are one of those components that are easily changeable. You just need to get a similar one with the same voltage output and equivalent or higher current output. Sure the wiring may need changed slightly, but that shouldn’t be that large of a change, likely just different positions of the connectors.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there are already compatible power supplies from other companies that can just be swapped out with minimal changes.
This gives an indication as to why the recall of Bambu A1 heatbeds fixes has been stopped by the consumer protection authority. Hurt the owner of A1s because the government can.
PSUs can be replaced with similar units, i dont think this will impact the US market much, even less in the long term.
Correct, short term its a big pain, longer term not so much.
But if your currently got this quarters shipment of printers already on route to the USA on a boat, well, thats a problem
Yeah, for those of us who bought an SV08 a week ago, we’re probably screwed.
Yikes. My Siboor Voron 0.2 has a Mornsun power supply. Bought it two years ago now, but still…….
If you're Canadian, then US laws don't mean much to you unless you cross the border.
What does that MEAN WELL???... 😂
so that was totally not planned
I had this issue with upgrades I was selling out of Australia, not power supply related, but micro controllers, WiFi and Bluetooth gear, even filament raised flags when I exported, also anything that is considered "dual use"
lol talk about throwing the spanner Taylor lol
weapons of mass destruction lol
Maybe the second hand printers are going up, if no new bamboo can come in.
Luckily this type of component is pretty easy to switch out both for companies and kit makers.
Itll get pretty wild as that list expands though given that everything is made in China.
thing is, they make more than just PSU`s, electronic components like SSR`s that can be found on controller boards and whjat not
@@CanuckCreator Oh yea. The ripples are starting for sure.
A lot of supply chain things are about to become really messy I feel with all the tension all over.
Theres like 3 big things happening all at once and I feel like within 10 years we'll have to face very hard questions related to where we get our stuff.
It will not be fun, and I think the only silverlining might be hoping everything gets better on the other side.
UL listed devices will have to be recertified with the new PSU most likely.
@@MinnesotaHomesteading I think for many they dont have ul listing for the whole device but just the power supply. At least I know my X1C and other printers are like that. I figured it was probably easier to just get a good supply than to try to get something like a printer certified but thats just an idle guess.
Not sure why that is has to happen. At the rate these things are going USA wont have imports lol. But I also agree with Nurgelrot, i can see thats how it plays out
I wonder if all this means print farms in Canada will become more viable vs in the States alongside other duties and tarrifs in the states.
Don't forget the 100% tariff on some Chinese products. Printers and parts (Voron ?) may become much more expensive.
I left the 3D printing world a while ago, because I started studying law.
What happened to your channel? What is Canuck?
Im a canadian who makes things
Canuck Creator
(i never was happy with the Nero3d branding as a channel name)
So, if we have a Bambu lab printer currently is it wrong or bad to use it or is it ok to continue use? Thx
This doesnt really affect any the end user who already has the machine
This affects vendors and importers. Selling the printers or bringing them into the country
no, diy your own 3d printer from china
I don't care who made the power supply if the government shows up i will charge them the same amount as they charge tax payers for toilet seats. I think the .gov wed site said something like 20k a seat🤣😂
What about second hand printers? If you've got a Bambu, or any other printer with a Mornsun power supply in it, can you sell it second hand? Or is that prohibited too?
Doubt anyones gonna check that. So i wouldnt worry, this mostly affects importers and vendors
the only thing this will do is give these companies a reason to jack up their prices
Even those companies that did NOT have banned components in them. They can just say we had to change to more expensive parts because of this ban if they wanted to. This will just increase their margins at the end of the day.
….please tell me Sovol is using something else
Opens new honeybadger rook kit.... damn.
Even if it did, I gives :)
I hate legalese. Why can't they write these documents in laymans terms so you don't need a law degree to understand them. That first paragraph you read ave me a headache as I understood NONE of it.
Heck, i was the one reading it and it took 2 takes to get it right lol.
@@CanuckCreator Only two? LOL.
Because English is too imprecise, that's how you end up with laws that are interpreted five different ways and have to be sorted out by SCOTUS etc., cause some idiot congressperson wrote it in English not legalese. Think of legalese as a programming language as opposed to a language for communication. Legalese attempts to define a very precise logic with zero room for misunderstanding.
@@urufushinjiro Except no one understands it. I shouldn't need a law degree or have to hire a lawyer just to understand a legal document. How can I obey a legal document if I can't even understand it?
you know, this really does suck because my opinion on this and the way i live is if someone does something to me, i have the choice of just walking away, and not dealing with sed person anymore, if a company, like one i won't mention, messes up me order and tries to turn it to my fault, just being a bad company, again i have the choice of walking away, when a government tells me i cant buy a product just because they sole that same component to a country that they don't like or are having problems with, that's kind of a bad thing, and i ask why, does it really help, i know it doesn't help me, that doesn't help that company that may put out the best product, and all because they don't like what that country is doing to another country, nothing really to do with the first country, how does this make any sense???? the US did it to themselves, outsourcing every product and not building US made products 50 years ago or longer, making us depend on outsourcing, then say you can't buy that product, just another form of control!!!!! they are still trying to control the world with this NEW WORLD ORDER crap, again these company didn't do anything to me, why should i have to pay for that by not being able to use there product??????
Buy a magneto x they have a warehouse here in the us
Where the warehouse is doesnt matter, its where the components are from that does
BiddabingBaddabumm🤦♂
Is this only gonna affect US ground or will it be in Europe the same? Asking as a German here.
That part i dont know, but many companies do have some sort of reciprocal agreements for stuff like this, dont want to risk selling US sanctioned things yourself or you may end up on the list too....
This will have an impact everywhere. Every international company that has some businss with the US will need to comply with US regulations.
No clue what this means for printers, but that's an awfully cool hat.
If the printer has mornsun components in it, it cant be imported or sold in the US
fix the thumbnail :)
fixed, i can spell gud
Good thing we are NOT persons, we're the people. Persons are corporations (or corporate trusts) when the word is used by a corporation (including government).
It’s not a “situation” between Russia and Ukraine. It’s a full blown war, the largest one in Europe after WWII. Down playing it to a “situation” is at the very least tone deaf to the hundreds of thousands of lives lost there.
I’ll let you decide if that’s disrespectful or not.
Agreed. And also the terrorism seen by Israel (and the US support for one terrorist country to attack another terrorist group with no care for civilian lives).
I think a better wording was possible but i don't think any actual malice or dismissive attitude was implied, he simply didn't want to get into it and say more than necessary on the subject. And i'm Ukrainian. No point getting offended over that.
Looks like I won't be able to re-sell my SV08 without first replacing the power supply. I've contacted Sovol asking if they plan to reduce the price of my machine by an appropriate amount. Will cancel my order if they won't.
You’ll still be able to resell your printer, Sovol and other companies just won’t be able to use that power supply in any new printers
They certify them for use with like ETL CSA ROSH ect.. if this covers that country, its the regulations fault for not finding them before certifying them after the cert they are at fault IMO like ISO rules are for this reason and the cert makes them appropriate you don't get to certify things then redact them that's what them certs are for exactly this A violation means the cert should have never happened, of course IMO meanwhile Amazon sells 10Amp fuses that take 15-19Amps to pop maybe start nailing the stuff that's NOT regulated and in Canada if you plug it in to the wall it is to be certified. ETL or CSA CA UL or other
If it's not the actual unit/PS then how do you protect the consumers? they are good or they are bad either way it passed a certificate so! and if not it should not be here either. Consumer commodity is consumer commodity will Joe be paying you back the loss I don't think so but you may get a free ice cream!
Thanks for the heads up Nero!> I would love to hear what ISO practitioners thinks of this mess no doubt someone dropped the ball or got caught fudging the terms, either way its not the consumers fault or obligation nor is it one company that's effected so the cert stands IMO I look for the cert if present its good to go EOS again IMO
This has nothing to do with certs, this is the companies violating sanctions and now being barred from the US market
stay away from politics and resume buildinf your project,and if any parts are missing look for alternative from defirrent source ,
Meh, this feels like click bate because you don't want to read.
Thanks Putin...