Unless I missed it one advantage to having the engine in the rear is traction. Having that extra weight over the drive wheels is a big advantage in colder climates like in Canada where I drive in the snow quite often.
It also helps with interior sapce and ease of access. For city buses, this means you can have a fully flat, low to the ground floor as you don't have to worry about all the driveline components getting in the way.
We get 5cm/2" of snow and the school buses get cancelled. Even when the road is just wet I see the school bus spinning it's tires when it picks up/drops off the kids. It's not only the front engine design, but the fact that the bus has a ton of low end torque. Couple that with rear wheel drive and you have zero traction unless you're in Arizona in June.
The catapult effect was the best part of sitting in the back of the bus when I was a kid! I loved getting launched into the air anytime the bus hit a reasonable bump.
Yesss OMGAHHH that was the best!! I've seen kids get fucked up getting launched in the air! We used to do something where a few time it just perfect and give yourself like just a little bit of lift with your feet You really get launched But the problem was you don't always come back down directly into your seat
This was my exact thought - why transit and motorcoaches always have rear engines while some school buses have front engines. For motorcoaches the "catapult effect" is a con, while for school buses - in the minds of kids - it is a pro. One of several reasons the cool kids (not me) always rode in the back.
we had a ump like that most of the time our Driver, who was a super cool guy btw, gave us a good launch, but once in a while, he would see us getting ready and move over to miss it, just to hear the last 5 kids on the but all whine =) ahhhh good times
A diesel pusher, or rear engine (flat nose) bus, is a purpose built bus where the body is the frame. I maximizes all the space available within the legal length of the vehicle. A cab and chassis, or conventional (dog nose) is just a truck pretending to be a bus. The passenger body sits on top of the frame like an accessory. This means no pass through storage underneath. A higher center of gravity and less usable space and a much rougher ride. Wheel base is also limited mostly because the engine transmission are up front which means a really long driveshaft with multiple carrier bearings is needed to couple to the axle. This also results in quite a bit of torque loss. The only benefit they really have is cost. Just my two cents.Good vid, thanks James.
@@abc123456efg A diesel pusher is a term used mostly in the RV community to denote the location of the engine. Simply put a Diesel engine that pushes from the rear. Most diesel pusher rv’s and built in the same manner as a motor coach using unibody construction
The conventional design is better able to navigate gravel and dirt roads, which is why a lot of rural school districts prefer that design. When I was in high school, the bus route went down plenty of gravel roads.
easier to repair is what i like. if something goes wrong i'd rather be able to pop the hood sand have everything in the open than find which panel he problem will be behind and have to do close quarters gymnastics.
For me who lives in Germany the appearance of a nose Bus is something very unfamiliar. Almost all of the busses as well as trucks are flat noses, and as you mentioned I think it's because the vastly different road infrastructures that Europe and the US have. Narrow roads and tight turns call for high maneuverability and an excellent turning radius, which can only be achieved when the wheelbase is shortend while the space inside stays the same. We also have city busses with engines in the back standing upright, which makes maintenance much easier. The only time I've seen nose-type busses is in very small ones, that are based on designs of something like a Mercedes Sprinter, VW Crafter or similar.
I can't see many technical issues with using nose busses in Europe (unlike trucks, where you want to maximize cargo space within the legal length). I assume that the demand is different though. The US seems to commonly place responsibility for school transport on each school, which will then need a fleet of low cost busses for those few daily trips. School transport in Europe is commonly organized by local authorities, which will utilize busses from their existing public transit fleet.
Most motor coaches and city buses are rear-engined in the US--I think the ubiquity of front-engined school buses is more a matter of cost than anything else; school districts are nearly always short on cash. Conventional front-engined designs are also common for livery service vehicles like airport shuttle vans which are shorter and lower-capacity.
Flat nosed or what’s known as cab overs are actually the norm here with mass transit and interstate bus travel. There’s also quite a lot of cab over use with small delivery box trucks. However large trucks and heavy duty construction tend not to use cab overs.
You are correct about the old VW buses. I drove my '68 bus for years, and I became very comfortable sitting on top of the front axle, with my feet swinging around ahead of the tires. It takes time to get used to it, but it's a very comfortable, upright position that is great for long distances. Plus you have precise control in tight spaces.
The International bus at the beginning with the weird nose is called a "Vista" Bus. From what I know they were only available with bodies produced by Thomas, and were usually sold with an International chassis during the 1990's, although some Chevrolet buses from the 80's also had these bodies available. They sold pretty well in the Southeast of the U.S. from what I know and were available in different body styles and lengths. The design was ivented to have better visibility than a dognose bus without be as "unsafe" as a flat front bus.
Thomas have been putting their bodies on a lot of different chassis. They have used International 3800s as a normal chassis, I’d assume it was just to switch things up a bit to wrap the body around the engine as well.
I drove one of those Vista's for a few days years ago. Comparison one what they felt like was a Step Van which would be similar to a UPS or FedEx delivery truck. They really were not that bad of a bus. I think the one I drove had a T444E in it.
@@pugmalley And the Vistas were a cross between a a standard conventional and a COE. (Thomas has built both conventional AND COE designs since 197x; the Vista design lasted only two years.) The Vista was a *transitional* design until Freightliner and MBNA (Mercedes Benz North America) had their own conventional design that replaced the FS-65 - which had many different front ends (International, Ford, Dodge, Chevy, GMC, etc.). The conventional design from MBNA today is the same conventional design that replaced Vista.
@@PGHammer21A You're close. The Vista does date back to the late 80's with the Chevy chasis. The Vista was not a cross between the Type C and the Type D (the flat-nose, transit, motorcoach style buses) per sa, but maybe more closely related to the Type B (traditional bus body on a step van chasis, which at the time, both GM and International produced). The Vista was just not a good bus; terrible to drive, and a real pain to maintain. At the school system I worked for, we were glad to see them go. The Vista was definitely a designed that Thomas was toying with mainly for International. At the time, International Navistar (or whomever), were in talks over purchasing Thomas Built, which is why you only saw the Vista as a International, and not a Ford during 90's. By then, GM only provided chasis for the Type A. When the company was bought by Freightliner, the Vista was shelved, if not before then. Fast forward to the mid 2000, Thomas and Freightliner come up with the new C-2 to fit on the new business class chasis (I think that's what they call it). While I don't know if the C-2 and the Vista are related, but the styling cues are definitely there.
I spent a few years driving a school bus for a school district in upstate South Carolina. I drove both traditional and flat-nosed transit styles. I have a strong preference for the transit style! Once I got the feel for maneuvering the beast, it was so much easier to drive. I enjoyed this video. Thanks for sharing.
When I transitioned from a jet with the nose wheel out front to one with the nose wheel behind the cockpit, it wasn't much of a learning curve. You do have to keep it in mind when making tight turns, especially on narrow taxiways, however. Great vid, James!
One more comparison is how each type handles in the snow. When trying to stop a conventional coach will want to slide the rear end more, and a transit or flat nosed will have the steering axle go out from under you faster. I drove both types, started out in a conventional old late 70's International. Then after a few months was thrown into the drivers seat of a transit. OMG I was scared to death for a while until I got used to it. I was 19 at the time way back in the late 80's. Ended up with 10 years on the road for school, OTR coach then the RTA before giving it up and getting into what I do now here in North East Ohio. I had a Chauffeurs license then and had to convert to a CDL later. I keep my CDL up just in case but retirement is 7 years off now, so not looking likely I will be behind the wheel again.
As a kid in elementary school, I took a school bus to school and back each day. The driver, H., had to deal with screaming kids and all the usual. My buddies and I would sit in the far back, but H. would let a kid sit on the engine cover in the snub-nosed bus he drove, as a reward for behaving or simply being nice. There were no safety devices in the buses then, and I now realize that in a fast stop or crash, any kid on the engine cover would have sailed through the flat plate-glass windshield in front, coming out likely resembling cole slaw. I've often wondered how Harold did, but I'm sure he's gone now as this was over 50 years ago! By the way, not all flat-nosed buses were rear engine.
I love driving a Nova Bus! We have them here at Disney World. The Articulated Nova (60’) is wayyy more fun to drive, and ironically easier to drive than a regular 40’ bus. But you’re kinda right about how the drive. The 4 feet in front of the wheels is accurate, but they drive surprisingly the same as most transit buses.
If you are a Disney Castmember bus driver, thank you for everything you do. Not enough people give you guys the credit you deserve. They just like to complain if the bus is taking too long.
I always refer to the "flat nose " tractors as "cab-overs". Cab-overs became popular back when the length of the overall length was more restricted for tractor-trailers on interstate highways. Cab-overs had more internal engine noise and rougher ride comfort for the driver.
Hi James, I have a video idea for you. Have you ever noticed how school buses that have wheel chair lifts have smaller tires? Even your typical 40 ft school bus will have smaller tires if it is equipped with a wheel chair lift. I've noticed that not many people know why that is and I thought it would be a great idea for a video. Keep up the good work my friend. 👍
@@linuxninja I am a school bus driver myself but I am not talking about the length of the bus. I am literally talking about the size of the tires on the bus. Have you ever noticed how any school bus with a wheelchair lift will have smaller tires than the regular buses, while the frame stays the same. My theory is that they are that way so there won't be a hump at the rear inside the bus, thus making the movement of wheelchairs inside the bus easier.
@@ariceagaandros Could they be running a smaller tire to allow extra space for kneeling to make a flatter surface for wheelchair users to enter through?
What I've found interesting as far as wheelchair lift equipped buses go is the way the buses at Disney World in Florida have a rear door that can convert from normal stairs to a wheelchair lift. I find this to be a pretty neat feature, and I haven't seen it on any other buses I've ridden on.
Manufacturers do this to allow for a completely flat floor inside & to get the floor level closer to ground level so the wheel chair lift won't have to work over a much greater distance. A standard 22.5 tire would require a floor 4 feet from ground level to accommodate the tire circumference while keeping a flat interior floor (just like a typical Ryder truck) & allowing for normal suspension movement. Instead, they use the low-profile 19.5s & that enables them to build the floor over a foot closer to the ground & still maintain the flat interior floor while still providing complete suspension movement. You can always tell they're stretching the envelope slightly because all of the special needs buses have a bit of a rake to them.
Bus drivers are incredible. As a 1972 high school student I was on music tour with an all-county band in Germany, France, and Belgium and there was one instance where our bus driver maneuvered a particularly narrow and winding street with the buildings practically up to the edge of the road. I was amazed. He drove very, very slowly to be sure where his vehicle was at all times.
In Europe, we have all flat front coaches and the majority of them rear engined as we like to say. But not too long ago Volvo offered a chassis called the B12m/B10m and the B8r / B9r / B11r / B12r and B13r (B standing for the chassis model, 12/10 meaning the litres, and the M / Rmeaning where it was situated) B12m chassis' had their engine and running gear in the middle of the bus (between the wheelbase) And the B11r chassis had their engines mounted at the rear. Many people (myself included) would argue this is the perfect place to mount the running gear because it has a much better center of gravity. Especially on bumpy roads this is ideal compared to rear engined coaches where all of the weight is in the back, leaving it as we say, very jumpy. The B12m succeeded the B10m in the early 2000's due to emissions, and the B12m was unfortunately discontinued in 2010 again due to emissions, which was then succeeded by the B11r chassis we have today. Volvo Coaches are typically bodied on the B9r, B11r and the B13r, which the B8r and occasionally B9r are used for citybus and intercity coach bodies. We had a number of B10m / B12m's on the Plaxton Paragon and the Jonckheere body. We operate Vanhool's today because they are the only rear engined coach we find that handle like a middle engined coach due to their weight. Leaving them a lot better on bumpy roads.
When I clicked this video, I didn't read the title properly. I thought it was about trucks. When I realized it was about buses I kept watching, because I'm convinced there isn't a cubic centimeter of the universe that isn't mindblowingly interesting. As expected, this video was mindblowingly interesting. I just now realized that I'll watch a lot of your videos, and therefore I'll have to learn a lot about motorcoaches. For starters, I'll have to learn what "motorcoach" means. I'm happy with this. As I've said many times, "we learn while we live" is false. "We live while we learn" is true.
The Flat Nose or CabOver design help give a better/tighter turning radius. That's why European tractor trails are mostly Cab Over, because of the old narrow european roads.
I remember well the catapult effect of the long rear overhang on dog-nosed school buses. When I was in grade school my friends and I always sat in the very back seat. The bus route crossed a bridge over a small creek and there was a big bump up onto the bridge deck which the bus drive never slowed down for. We would get launched fully off the seat into the air. We figured out that the effect could be amplified by jumping up off the seat a little before the rear bus tires hit the bump. If you timed it right, you would be coming back down just as the seat started coming up. You would hit the seat thereby compressing the seat cushion and get an extra upward boost. Done just right, you could touch the ceiling of the bus. Great way to start the day each morning.
I’m always amazed at how ugly North American buses and coaches look compared to what we have here in Scotland. The company I work for have Neoplan Tourliner’s and VDL Futura’s for tour and private hire. We primarily see 50 foot Plaxton Elite’s for intercity services although we are now seeing more and more Panoramas. Most places use ADL Enviro singe and deckers for local bus routes although a lot of operators also run the smaller Optare Solo’s on tight routes. I’ve really been enjoy your content, it’s interesting to see the similarities and differences on many aspects of the job, keep them coming 👍
The ‘ugly school buses’ is an icon to America, literally show anyone in the world a picture of a yellow school bus and everyone knows it’s an American school bus, same for the iconic NYC yellow Victoria cabs. Wish I could say the same about Scotland
Here in Brazil we have a majority of flat nose buses, as far as I know, every single bus that is still in production here is a flat nose model, in the state where I live (Pernambuco), they mainly have frontal engines, with the exception of articulated buses and most motorcoaches, they're normally built in truck chassis that are modified by the manufacturer to recieve a bus structure on top. The top part of the bus is normally manufactured separated from the chassis. The most common chassis manufacturers here nowdays are Mercedes, Volkswagen, Volvo, Scania and Iveco, as for the top portion, we call those manufacturers "encarroçadoras" ("Wagon makers" if translated literally), there are Caio Induscar, Marcopolo, Neobus, Mascarello and Agrale as more common active ones, there is the Busscar, which closed in a decade or so, and some old ones that are out of market for decades (Also worth mentioning that we had/have some foreing produced bus, like old Marmon-Herrington trolleybuses, some Irizar buses that were produced under license and so one). The "dog nose" ones are normally old buses, they were called as "Jardineiras" (Meaning "Planter/Gardener/Overalls"), some with Ford or Chevrolet chassis, adapted from truck chassis, with a single door near the front axel, one model to search for, as it was the most common, is the "Caio Jardineira", that is a term for a major section of models produced by Caio with this design, also the "Caio Gabriela Andino" ("Andino" means "The one from Andean Mountains", "Gabriela" is a common female name), the last one being mainly used outside of Brazil in other South American countries (Hence the name refering to a mountain chain outside of Brazil). These models were normally used on rural areas, where you woun't find paved roads, nowdays they're normally 4x4 versions of flat nose buses. Worth mentioning that here in Brazil there isn't a standard rule for urban mass transit buses regarding door numbers and so, there is the "PADRON" study that came to a conclusion to a bus with large enough windows, large enough doors and 2 of them, one for entering (Normally foward of the front axel), the other one for exiting (behind the rear axel in most states, but in Rio de Janeiro you can find them between the front and rear axels). The state where I live has an extra middle door for handicap embarking and disembarking (In other states, they would normally use the rear door) in the majority of buses (The ones who don't have them are normally not adapted for handicap transport, as they don't have a wheelchair elevator, yes, this was a reality up until the 2010s, and some buses from that era were still in operation up until 2020, this in the metropolitan region, as rural places still operate old buses with this configuration). Articulated buses have often 3 doors, we're still talking about right side doors, but the amount tends to mirror to the left side if the bus uses that too in stops (On the BRT systems, for example, as they bypass the ticket gate, so you pay the ticket to board the station instead of paying it inside of the bus... Aaaaand some people find their way to bypass both and ride for free... Brazil is for professionals), but here where I live, as well as in some other states, you might see articulated BRT buses with 4 doors on the left side (Search for "Mobi-pe Caio Millennium BRT" or "CoNorte Neobus Mega BRT/Marcopolo Viale BRT" if you wanna see photos of those), and 3 on the right side, yup, it's a mess. As far as trucks go, currently we only produce flat nosed trucks, you can find some "dog nose" ones, but they're not in production anymore, some more recent, some older, like the Scania 111S (Nicknamed "Jacaré", means "alligator"), Scania 113H and Mercedes Atron (This one ceased production about 2 years ago, being the last produced semi-truck "bicudo", as we call here, it means "The one with a big beek/nose"). The reason why we don't have them here anymore is due to regulations, as here the maximum lenght of a truck and semi-truck also counts it's cabin and nose, so a flat nose gives you more space for cargo, but in the case of rocks, sand and other dense grains and materials transportation, those "dog nose" trucks and semi-trucks were still used, due to the weight of the cargo exceeding the maximun allowed by law before the lenght and height would ever do, and as they were cheaper to maintain and looked prettier in the eyes of some truckers.
I expected to get bored a few minutes in, but instead I got completely sucked in and was surprised the video was ending! Thank you for accepting me into the motorcoach world.
Having driven both types of school buses, I greatly prefer the rear engine type. It has greater visibility and just drives better in my opinion. Love your channel!
Even as a very young child, I was always fascinated by buses, and always wanted to become a professional motor coach operator. Many years later, after spending much of my career in public service, I by chance opportunity got to attend a open house recruitment for bus driving jobs in an east coast state. After being hired, obtaining my CDL, and being trained on school buses, I was assigned to the company's transit and motor coach division, where I operated every type of equipment that they owned. My favorite were the motor coaches, which I drove all over the east coast and into Ohio and Canada. I probably would still be working there except that I relocated to another state where I took another executive assignment in my former career field. When I tell people of my time as a professional bus driver, they seem confused knowing of my past. But, honestly, it was a dream that had long been deferred. And, I would quickly do it again. By the way, I was only one of two drivers at the company who could operate he self-shifting MCL motor coaches that the company owned at the time.
I drive a special needs school bus, flat nose, front engine, short bus. I drove a 2007 Thomas truck/bus for my first 5 years. I hated that thing. The truck chassis shook that bus apart, me included. I recently upgraded to a 2016 Bluebird. What a difference! It has a coach chassis and drives like a dream compared to the Thomas. I much prefer the flat nose for the visibility, especially where children are involved.
When I lived in NYC, my routines had me frequently in neighborhoods around the bus depots. Whether it was new drivers or old drivers on radically new equipment (like the transition from high to low floor buses, or from repurposed local buses to commuter grade express buses), it was always amusing to watch the drivers learning to corner the buses. Especially if you caught the show by a stop that had a supervisor or two. Later in life, when I finally got my license, the lessons learned of always knowing where your wheels are and the center of your turning radius, helped a great deal. If only they'd had some advice for parallel parking (besides DON'T).LOL!
When I was working for a moving company, they wanted us to start parking along the spaces, and not in them. Had to parallel park one of the straight trucks a few times, have done it on the street, backed down a whole apartment complex road once. Doing a bus... whew. Have done it once, since the school board requires you to be able to back them up in a space, with about three feet of clearance between you and the other two busses.
I drive a rear engine Blue Bird school bus. I definitely prefer driving it over a front engine bus. Much less noise and more comfortable. They are also more fun to drive in my opinion. Great video!
The reason Semi's were snub nosed was length. For a while, we had laws that said a tractor trailer combo could only be under a certain total length. They developed the snub nose tractor to allow longer trailers that could hold more cargo. Those laws are gone now so you don't see many brand new snub nose tractors on the road. I always assumed that there was a max bus length and they made snub nose buses to get more bus.
I’ve heard the dog nose style called a “cut-away”. In most cases this refers to the passenger body being attached to an incomplete or “cut away” chassis.
@@MotorcoachWorld cut away in school bus usage would refer to a van chassis bus and IC's AE and AC, the f550 and M2 chassis are also examples, since part of cab is removed vs conventional school buses which are built on a cowled chassis which hood, engine, steering wheel, and dashboard are included. A Thomas C2 is a cowled chassis based bus as it uses a different windshield than the related M2. My assigned bus is a C2.
As driver with experience across school, transit and motor coach I tend to like the flat front of transit and coach. I notice in the US a lot of urban school bus routes are flat-front "type D" transit style (as apposed to "C type" Conventional school bus). I surmise this is for the same reason transit buses are as it minimizes the tail swing and one can maneuver the door into curb-side better with out hitting or riding the curbs. In transit we could slightly overhang the curbs when pulling in eliminating the gap that passengers had to cross especially in some common designs of terminals and bus loops. Also I like the quieter ride on the longer transit shift or coach run to another place far away. However, my students love the catapult zone on the speed humps.
If someone said "hey you should watch a RUclips video about different kinds of busses" I would've ignored them, but I'm honestly fascinated now. I thought a lot about this in grade school and I literally haven't thought about it since, but this is a super interesting topic and you did a great job explaining it.
When I was an elementary school student in the US in the early 1990s, the school system of the city I lived in had both the "nosed" and "flat-faced" kinds of school buses. At that age, I considered the nosed variety to be "normal" and the flat variety to be "ugly".
Rear engine buses also do better in snow & other bad weather. The Coaches with the dognose are mostly for smaller capacity " luxury Coaches" usually with beverage compartments built in. We just called them Minibuses. They also have a much worse ride than snubnose models. I took a Coach on a Ski trip ( in the snow) up to a resort & while I had to pay very close attention to road ahead & plan accordingly I didn't have much trouble. The monocock design makes for a solid unit. But School buses mostly have a almost middle when it comes to rear swing. I started with Schoolbuses then was trained for Motorcoach between my School runs. With a Coach you can cheat a little with your nose "slightly" over the curb.( while watching for peds or poles & such.)
The term you're looking for is called "Cutaway" for the truck based buses. I avoid them like the plaque, and I think they're significantly much more difficult to drive than a normal bus.
Good to see you James. Belated happy New Year. I drove them all. I still prefer a rear engine coach. A guy I worked for used to have Crystal 38 passenger buses.. I drove them in and around the Wash DC area and I didn't like the steering and they were noisy and didn't have air rid. A+ for the topic. The flat nose trucks you referred to are know as Cab Overs. The semi trucks with a front engine are called conventionals. Stay safe up there.
The short nosed busses, that look like hybrids between longnose and flatnose, are also truck based, but this time based on a flatnose truck design. As the engine sits directly behind the front axle, but the passenger entrance door is behind the engine, the driver's seat is placed also behind the front axle to allow for interactions between driver and passengers e.g. to pay the fare.
I once drove a dog nose school bus when I was a kid. It was a 1979 International Harvester S1853 Schoolmaster school bus that was rotting away (along with a bunch of other vehicles) on my great-grandparents' farm in a small rural town in Northern Michigan. I don't remember which diesel engine it had, but I don't remember hearing a turbo whistle so it was probably NA. It also had a 5-speed manual transmission, and the clutch was so heavy that my seven-year-old self had to stand on the clutch pedal in order to get the pedal to the floor. The shift pattern was different than any others I've seen. Most 5 speed shift patterns are 1 2 3 4 5 R, but the shift pattern on the bus was 1 R 2 3 4 5.
Wow, this is a tought topic! About the half nose, it was supposed to be the best of both worlds, as in, engine in the front, without the weird curved stairwell, with the giant dog house (the engine cover thats on the inside for those that dont know). The snub noses don't have that, and have a traditional stairwell. But, they used the space that would be empty under the dash, shoving the engine, like in a van (why vans built on truck frames, i.e. Econolines, Express, Ram, had smaller hoods). So there was no need for the full nose length. THey were thought to be better in cities. The issue I heard was that they were a pain to work on, so they stopped making them that way. I think Id condense a bus design to cost, driver maneuverability for the area where it operates, and maintenance....which I guess is the same for anything, except if you drive a Hummer H1 lol Also, I can't give you an LFS but if you want to drive my DAC, youre more than welcome. It has more front overhang than the Nova. Doing sharp turns feels more like moving sideways lol.
I have driven buses, trucks (semi and box trucks), motor homes and now a school bus since 1974. I have always heard the different style buses called, "conventional" and "flat nose". Your video pretty much covers the reasons for the two styles and their uses. Good video.
The nightmare I have about driving a dog nose school bus is that some little kids are in front when you pull out and you don't see them. I know there are mirrors, but still.
I assuming you mean when when you are stopped and dropping them off. Most busses have an 8 foot arm that comes out when a bus is stopped with the stop sign deployed, this arm forces the child to remain in view of the driver as they cross the road.
The cab over design or flat nosed if you prefer was originally designed for use in cities were turning radius is reduced. It also improves visibility when the vehicle turning
Conventional = Engine at the front of the bus covered by a cowl. Transit = Any bus without a front cowl. If the engine is in the front, it is under the driver and covered by a "dog house." Glad I found your channel. I have worked for my local school district as well as two charter companies. I definitely prefer transit buses, and I would like to share some of my most and least favorite features of the buses I have driven. MCI J4500: Pro: The curved stairs and the ramp that leads into the passenger compartment. Con: Steering tag axle instead of lifting axle Van Hool / Temsa: Pro: The service door which opens parallel to the bus instead of extending out like a sedan door. Con: Both made overseas and can be difficult to get parts. Prevost H3-45: Pro: Tall luggage bays. Most luggage can be loaded vertically on their wheels making loading and unloading much easier. Plus, extra storage bay in stairwell under first passenger seat. Con: Restroom door often slides open when making turns. Prevost X3-45: Pro: Panels over the rear wheels can be opened making it easier to install chains in the winter. Con: Fewer compartments for driver's convenience.
Here in Australia, we use transit and coach bus for schools and trips. I haven't seen front engine bus. Australian use flat front end busses, there's a time lag whenever you turn, we called it over hang. When leaving parking, try to leave a gap infront and park your tail at slight angle away from the kerb. Thus will ensure you won't have deadly tail swing.
Those Novas are sweet. We have a bunch in the fleet at Disney world and honestly I prefer driving them over the Gilligs that we have. The great thing about those Novas are they have about 4 feet of overhang. it take some getting used to but once you learn how to use it you can do a lot of tight turns around curves.
I grew up in Asia and I'm used to seeing a lot of flat front buses, with a very rare school and workers transport buses with the dog nose fronts. However, when I was in school, it wasn't too rare to see a flat front bus with a front engine type where the driver seats over the front wheels, and the front passenger door is recessed slightly to the back behind the front wheels. The engine is situated in the middle or slightly to the side of the driver, and you could see a raised cover over the engine assembly. There would be space for only one passenger seat in front of the front door and that seat would be highly sought after by the school kids. These are probably really rare now and are probably aged out by now.
@@videhvora2927 It's still off the engine, I would imagine it'll be just as hot for the driver but I think the ventilation would help. Don't recall it being warmer.
Randomly got recommended this video and it piqued my interest since I always wondered what the differences were. Thanks for finally clearing this question i’ve had for years mate!
I've watched a lot of schoolie builds and I've never understood why people chose the dog nose or front engine buses. I would totally go with the rear engine. It just makes more sense for the reasons you mentioned.
It is all about maintenance. School buses have very long service lives (15-20 years minimum) and do almost exclusively stop-and-go driving, so easy access to the engine and the front suspension and brakes for maintenance and inspections is important.
@@raygrinders3918 not sure if I spelled schoolie correctly. It might be Skoolie. Where people buy a retired school bus and convert it to an RV. The engine should be in the rear for comfort.
I would choose a conventional because they look better, and eaiser to work on. I like coaches and transit buses, but school busses look best as a conventional FE. The only reason a RE would ride better is either; has air ride, or has double wishbone front suspension. The city's Gillig Lowfloors ride nice, but they seem like wallow, and bang the bumpstops on hard bumps and potholes.
Hey James! I love watching your videos! Trucks that have a dog-nose configuration are called conventional, and flat nose trucks are called cabovers, or COE (cab over engine). Keep posting!
Interesting! I grew up in middle Georgia where all our busses had noses. I almost never saw the "ugly flat face busses" except for when I visited California where they seem to be preferred. I wasn't aware of the functional differences, but to this day flat faced school busses at least still creep me out.
James, second comment today I’ve just come across your channel and have just subscribed. I am now retired after having worked in the industry ever since I left school and I find the channel extremely interesting showing the similarities and differences between US and UK operations As for engine placement, there are pros and cons for all the options. For front mounted engines the pros can be easy maintenance access and good airflow through the engine bay, cons, noise and ‘wasted space’ A variation of this was the UK half cab location in which the driver was placed along side the engine rather than sat behind it, this reduced the loss of usable space and was fine when a conductor was carried but wasn’t very helpful when the industry changed to one man operation, having a great big lump of oily metal in the way wasn’t exactly ideal. The next solution was to flip the engine onto its side and mount it either between the axles or in the rear of the vehicle, this was mainly due to the size of the engines an eight to ten litre engine isn’t exactly tiny and in UK construction and use regs you had a strictly enforced length limit (at the time 30ft, this was later increased to36ft) Pros, more efficient use of space, typically being able to carry more people than the earlier half cab in the same overall length and better noise/fume isolation, cons, less easy maintenance access and if the designers didn’t get their sums right a higher tendency for failure. The logical extension was, with the availability of newer, smaller more powerful engines which allows them to be mounted vertically at the rear driving forward to the drive axle, good for noise/fume isolation but poor for access, with modern vehicles and the amount of excess plumbing they have attached for emissions control the engine bays can get quite cluttered. Most UK double Deck vehicles from about 1967 on had the engine mounted transversely across the back of the vehicle driving forward through an angle drive to the rear axle. This shows exactly why they were put there as the engine/gear box assembly would fill the space across the rear of the vehicle (about 8ft) Re bespoke bus chassis versus truck conversion, a major factor in this is that with a truck conversion it would be rather difficult to arrange for disability access on the the thing, the typical truck being designed to have a bed height a certain height above the ground. In the UK, and I have no doubt in the US, as well PCV vehicles are required to be accessible which requires them to be low floor and be wheelchair accessible. This means that the ground clearance isn’t very much which is a pain if you have to change a wheel outside of the workshop and requires a specific and specialised suspension design, usually air with both chassis lift and chassis kneel functions, trucks usually aren’t that complex. That’s why buses cost a lot more than trucks.
Hey Geoff. Sorry it took me a bit to reply. I enjoyed reading your post. Thanks for taking the time to write this it was very interesting to read. You should know your stuff man. Thank you so much for subscribing to the channel and for giving me all this info.
Thanks for the video! I have a Toyota Hiace Grand Cabin and I love how clean it looks with the flat nose. To be honest that's the main reason why I wanted one.
I love how there's community for literally anything on the internet. I would never imagine that bus nuts bus nuts. I never see semi trucks or buses with noses in South Africa, I wondered why that's the case, I've only ever seen one dog nose semi, made me go "huh". Also why do Americans calls Ford 150s called trucks while 18 wheelers get called semi-trucks, like shouldn't semi-truck < truck
I just have the nostalgia of sitting at the far back of a school bus down here in Louisiana with really bumpy roads and hitting the bumps to get that big jump effect. I remember some kid hitting the roof like an idiot with their head.
Being from suburban Chicago, I admit I liked seeing CTA busses, and some downtown locations... I think one was Michigan ave... Saw the numbers (routes) of a few, and know where they are... It late at night, and I tired... Easily amused/entertained... Should probably go to sleep... Will definitely be watching more of this channel... Thanks...
Great video! I've driven Gillig LF and Nova LFS as well as Nova LFS Artics and New Flyer Artics. You're so right, that overhang on a NOVA takes some real getting used to, especially the initial distraction of seeing your front tire in the mirror on turns. I will say though, the shorter wheelbase makes it great for tight turns, especially U-turns.
You mentioned the VW and Toyota vans. I had a bunch of the mid to late 60s Chevy vans back in the 80s and 90s. You sat next to the engine as you drove. Sitting in the back seat of one of these was about like sitting in the front seat of a typical truck or car. Being that far forward in one of these gave the driver a better view of the front when making turns. I used to take my friends for a ride in them and freak them out when turning or parking close to things. lol I did, however, have ONE van that was a rear engine, based on the Corvair Greenbriar. It drove better in the snow due to the extra weight at the drive axle, giving it better traction. I really miss my old vans!
Just an anecdote on the Toyota Previa (that flat nosed minivan Toyota made). I don't know if it improved over the years, but my parents got the 2-wheel drive version of it when I was in college. It was so poorly balanced with the engine sitting in the middle of the car (to check the oil, you had to lift up the middle row passenger seat) that we would literally slide on surfaces that we had no business sliding on at sub 10-mph (dry leaves on a slight incline, damp asphalt). My dad didn't initially believe the rest of us, thinking we didn't know how to drive properly, and then he couldn't get up our driveway in the rain one day and it was traded in the next day for the 4-wheel drive version. These were probably the 1989 or so version of the car. Admittedly, the 4-wheel drive version worked far better and they kept it for a number of years.
I remember back in the 8th grade, I lived on an acreage and my bus would usually drop me off at the edge of the dirt road. Fun story, I usually sat near the front because since I was usually the last student to be dropped off, my driver and I would casually chat. The bus hit an unavoidable bump on my acreage. So the next day, I sat in the Catapult Zone, and holy crap I sprung up like a rocket. As I held on for dear life, I was laughing hysterically. I trusted my driver of course, no one got hurt. 🤣
My wife used to drive for a school district, her first bus was a snub nose, the motor was beside her; one of the disadvantages was dips, most of the time the front of the bus would drag or dig in. Her second one was what you call a dog nose, she preferred the second one
I always loved sitting in the back of my school bus for that fun bouncy ride. Even though the bus driver dedicated the back for the older kids. I always found a way to sit back there.
I've been seeing a lot more snub-nose school buses within the past few years. It's also my understanding that most school buses today have seat belts for passengers (which they didn't when I was a kid) and automatic transmissions (most were stick shift way back when).
I still remember riding home 10 miles on a Gillig 108 passenger school bus with tire chains in the 1970's during a freak snow storm. I thought my teeth were going to fall out. I also thought these were mid engine but I don't have any knowledge about if there ever were any mid engine school busses.
I laughed when you said in NA these buses can pretty well go every where. Our compy has to deal with a very popular wedding neighborhood on a hill overlooking the city. Narrow streets, lined with parked cars. We've just flat out said.. we cant take the buses up there. Also popular are "farm" weddings. Dirt roads still exist and definitely dirt drives. We often send a driver out to access the accessibility of a site. And sometimes it's not good news. That said, I absolutely loved your video. I'm office personnel and really didn't know lots of this stuff.
I drive a bus in my country. Similar to the one you drive but mine's a 12meter 4x2. It really is a good bus to drive especially on tight turns and traffic, and it has better fuel economy than what i've used to do in a "dog nosed".
As someone who rode the bus to school for many years this has always been a little curious question that has hung around in my mind for years especially after I started working in Bloomington Normal and watching the city buses go while on my smoke break. And as long as that's the Peoria charter that I think it is then hello from about 45 min southeast of you.
Hey Jim LOL small world. Yes I work for Peoria Charter that's why you see a lot of Peoria charters buses in my videos haha. I drive by that school bus station quite a bit.
It's been so long since I last rode in a school bus I'd forgotten how much I loved sitting far back and getting launched into the air, I swear sometimes I would clear like a foot.
I remember in the early 1990s when I was picked up from the bus stop in a flat-nose bus. I thought it was so cool. Sometimes I would see other flat nosed buses from other school with weird emergency side doors or the seats would be different. Some buses had the two-three seating while others had the 2.5-2.5.
Limbusines is what one Limousine Company called their “dog nose” truck chassis front engine, the inside of those look seem less, even though they are custom conversions leather seats flat screen TV’s. Great Video! Thank you!
I drive for a rural transit outfit in the US, and all we have are truck-chassis buses. We occasionally get Freightliners here, and they're generally not bad, but we mostly have buses built on Ford F-series frames, which are much smaller, and have gas engines, while the Freightliners are diesels. The Freightliners, despite being larger and noisier, are actually much better to drive, since they sit higher and don't have as big a blind zone to the right as the Fords. The passenger compartments (at least the ones we have) are built pretty cheaply. Within 20,000 miles, bits of trim and wall covering come loose, and in one case the pole holding the farebox fell off. The walls are basically plywood and plastic, so they won't do much of anything in a collision
I am licenced to operate a 53 passenger bus in Japan. Flat nose rear engine. Its also a 5 speed manual. (Electronic stick and a traditional clutch) its a mitsubishi fuso. Its fun to drive
My favorit busses are doubble articulated trolleybusses in my Hometown in Switzerland. I just love to watch them bend around corners, and they are good for the climate.
I'm always amazed on trips to California (LA and San Diego...last time was 7 years ago). that the schools were still using busses from Crown Coach...which went out of business in 1991.
In regards to the truck styles, a flat nosed European and older American truck is a “cab-over” [the engine]. You are correct in calling the “dog nose” trucks with the engine sticking out “conventional” trucks.
As a kid i lived in a very rural area. In middle school I always sat in the back seat of the bus. One day the bus driver was driving over a pretty rough dirt road and hit a huge pothole at speed. This caused about 3 rows of kids to go flying, and me being pretty tall (5'10"), my head actually hit the ceiling!
Regarding School buses, they also exist as flat-nosed style advantage of these as a school bus is they can carry more than a Cargo Truck chassis style school bus. They can also be used as transit buses examples are Thomas HDX school buses being used as transit buses by MTA New York state as Hudson Railink
![Tee Grizzley - Blow for Blow (feat. J. Cole) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wNLN5xsx5dc/mqdefault.jpg)
Unless I missed it one advantage to having the engine in the rear is traction. Having that extra weight over the drive wheels is a big advantage in colder climates like in Canada where I drive in the snow quite often.
It also helps with interior sapce and ease of access. For city buses, this means you can have a fully flat, low to the ground floor as you don't have to worry about all the driveline components getting in the way.
That’s why schools close during winters, because school buses just aren’t adapted to Canada’s weather
but then you lose traction on the steering wheels
the opposite, actually. it’s more work on the bus if the engine is in the back
We get 5cm/2" of snow and the school buses get cancelled. Even when the road is just wet I see the school bus spinning it's tires when it picks up/drops off the kids. It's not only the front engine design, but the fact that the bus has a ton of low end torque. Couple that with rear wheel drive and you have zero traction unless you're in Arizona in June.
The catapult effect was the best part of sitting in the back of the bus when I was a kid! I loved getting launched into the air anytime the bus hit a reasonable bump.
Yesss OMGAHHH that was the best!! I've seen kids get fucked up getting launched in the air! We used to do something where a few time it just perfect and give yourself like just a little bit of lift with your feet You really get launched But the problem was you don't always come back down directly into your seat
never happened to my, because i rode busses in Germany, they dont have your now build bad suspension in the 60s and 70s!
This was my exact thought - why transit and motorcoaches always have rear engines while some school buses have front engines. For motorcoaches the "catapult effect" is a con, while for school buses - in the minds of kids - it is a pro. One of several reasons the cool kids (not me) always rode in the back.
fr unfortunately nowadays it’d be called child abuse
we had a ump like that most of the time our Driver, who was a super cool guy btw, gave us a good launch, but once in a while, he would see us getting ready and move over to miss it, just to hear the last 5 kids on the but all whine =) ahhhh good times
A diesel pusher, or rear engine (flat nose) bus, is a purpose built bus where the body is the frame. I maximizes all the space available within the legal length of the vehicle.
A cab and chassis, or conventional (dog nose) is just a truck pretending to be a bus. The passenger body sits on top of the frame like an accessory. This means no pass through storage underneath. A higher center of gravity and less usable space and a much rougher ride. Wheel base is also limited mostly because the engine transmission are up front which means a really long driveshaft with multiple carrier bearings is needed to couple to the axle. This also results in quite a bit of torque loss. The only benefit they really have is cost. Just my two cents.Good vid, thanks James.
Ah yes, the dog nose buses... More like a U-Haul box truck bus lol
I’m not super familiar with pushers but I believe they are still body on a frame. Unless you are looking at a coach bus which is a unibody
@@abc123456efg A diesel pusher is a term used mostly in the RV community to denote the location of the engine. Simply put a Diesel engine that pushes from the rear. Most diesel pusher rv’s and built in the same manner as a motor coach using unibody construction
The conventional design is better able to navigate gravel and dirt roads, which is why a lot of rural school districts prefer that design. When I was in high school, the bus route went down plenty of gravel roads.
easier to repair is what i like. if something goes wrong i'd rather be able to pop the hood sand have everything in the open than find which panel he problem will be behind and have to do close quarters gymnastics.
For me who lives in Germany the appearance of a nose Bus is something very unfamiliar. Almost all of the busses as well as trucks are flat noses, and as you mentioned I think it's because the vastly different road infrastructures that Europe and the US have. Narrow roads and tight turns call for high maneuverability and an excellent turning radius, which can only be achieved when the wheelbase is shortend while the space inside stays the same. We also have city busses with engines in the back standing upright, which makes maintenance much easier. The only time I've seen nose-type busses is in very small ones, that are based on designs of something like a Mercedes Sprinter, VW Crafter or similar.
And most busses are flat floor with lowering mechanism so prams and wheelchairs can just roll on from the pavement
I can't see many technical issues with using nose busses in Europe (unlike trucks, where you want to maximize cargo space within the legal length). I assume that the demand is different though. The US seems to commonly place responsibility for school transport on each school, which will then need a fleet of low cost busses for those few daily trips. School transport in Europe is commonly organized by local authorities, which will utilize busses from their existing public transit fleet.
In Europe there are laws limiting the maximum dimensions of a vehicle. Then a dog nose is a waste of space compared to COE or flat nose.
Most motor coaches and city buses are rear-engined in the US--I think the ubiquity of front-engined school buses is more a matter of cost than anything else; school districts are nearly always short on cash. Conventional front-engined designs are also common for livery service vehicles like airport shuttle vans which are shorter and lower-capacity.
Flat nosed or what’s known as cab overs are actually the norm here with mass transit and interstate bus travel. There’s also quite a lot of cab over use with small delivery box trucks. However large trucks and heavy duty construction tend not to use cab overs.
You are correct about the old VW buses. I drove my '68 bus for years, and I became very comfortable sitting on top of the front axle, with my feet swinging around ahead of the tires. It takes time to get used to it, but it's a very comfortable, upright position that is great for long distances. Plus you have precise control in tight spaces.
The International bus at the beginning with the weird nose is called a "Vista" Bus. From what I know they were only available with bodies produced by Thomas, and were usually sold with an International chassis during the 1990's, although some Chevrolet buses from the 80's also had these bodies available. They sold pretty well in the Southeast of the U.S. from what I know and were available in different body styles and lengths. The design was ivented to have better visibility than a dognose bus without be as "unsafe" as a flat front bus.
Thomas have been putting their bodies on a lot of different chassis. They have used International 3800s as a normal chassis, I’d assume it was just to switch things up a bit to wrap the body around the engine as well.
I drove one of those Vista's for a few days years ago. Comparison one what they felt like was a Step Van which would be similar to a UPS or FedEx delivery truck. They really were not that bad of a bus. I think the one I drove had a T444E in it.
@@pugmalley And the Vistas were a cross between a a standard conventional and a COE. (Thomas has built both conventional AND COE designs since 197x; the Vista design lasted only two years.) The Vista was a *transitional* design until Freightliner and MBNA (Mercedes Benz North America) had their own conventional design that replaced the FS-65 - which had many different front ends (International, Ford, Dodge, Chevy, GMC, etc.). The conventional design from MBNA today is the same conventional design that replaced Vista.
@@PGHammer21A
You're close. The Vista does date back to the late 80's with the Chevy chasis. The Vista was not a cross between the Type C and the Type D (the flat-nose, transit, motorcoach style buses) per sa, but maybe more closely related to the Type B (traditional bus body on a step van chasis, which at the time, both GM and International produced). The Vista was just not a good bus; terrible to drive, and a real pain to maintain. At the school system I worked for, we were glad to see them go. The Vista was definitely a designed that Thomas was toying with mainly for International. At the time, International Navistar (or whomever), were in talks over purchasing Thomas Built, which is why you only saw the Vista as a International, and not a Ford during 90's. By then, GM only provided chasis for the Type A. When the company was bought by Freightliner, the Vista was shelved, if not before then. Fast forward to the mid 2000, Thomas and Freightliner come up with the new C-2 to fit on the new business class chasis (I think that's what they call it). While I don't know if the C-2 and the Vista are related, but the styling cues are definitely there.
They were somewhat common in the midwest also! I miss those things!
I spent a few years driving a school bus for a school district in upstate South Carolina. I drove both traditional and flat-nosed transit styles. I have a strong preference for the transit style! Once I got the feel for maneuvering the beast, it was so much easier to drive.
I enjoyed this video. Thanks for sharing.
When I transitioned from a jet with the nose wheel out front to one with the nose wheel behind the cockpit, it wasn't much of a learning curve. You do have to keep it in mind when making tight turns, especially on narrow taxiways, however. Great vid, James!
I died with laughter when he called us “bus nuts”😂😂
One more comparison is how each type handles in the snow. When trying to stop a conventional coach will want to slide the rear end more, and a transit or flat nosed will have the steering axle go out from under you faster. I drove both types, started out in a conventional old late 70's International. Then after a few months was thrown into the drivers seat of a transit. OMG I was scared to death for a while until I got used to it. I was 19 at the time way back in the late 80's. Ended up with 10 years on the road for school, OTR coach then the RTA before giving it up and getting into what I do now here in North East Ohio. I had a Chauffeurs license then and had to convert to a CDL later. I keep my CDL up just in case but retirement is 7 years off now, so not looking likely I will be behind the wheel again.
As a kid in elementary school, I took a school bus to school and back each day. The driver, H., had to deal with screaming kids and all the usual. My buddies and I would sit in the far back, but H. would let a kid sit on the engine cover in the snub-nosed bus he drove, as a reward for behaving or simply being nice. There were no safety devices in the buses then, and I now realize that in a fast stop or crash, any kid on the engine cover would have sailed through the flat plate-glass windshield in front, coming out likely resembling cole slaw. I've often wondered how Harold did, but I'm sure he's gone now as this was over 50 years ago!
By the way, not all flat-nosed buses were rear engine.
Lol screw safety. That would have been awesome.
Lol screw safety. That would have been awesome.
I love driving a Nova Bus! We have them here at Disney World. The Articulated Nova (60’) is wayyy more fun to drive, and ironically easier to drive than a regular 40’ bus. But you’re kinda right about how the drive. The 4 feet in front of the wheels is accurate, but they drive surprisingly the same as most transit buses.
If you are a Disney Castmember bus driver, thank you for everything you do. Not enough people give you guys the credit you deserve. They just like to complain if the bus is taking too long.
I always refer to the "flat nose " tractors as "cab-overs". Cab-overs became popular back when the length of the overall length was more restricted for tractor-trailers on interstate highways. Cab-overs had more internal engine noise and rougher ride comfort for the driver.
Hi James, I have a video idea for you. Have you ever noticed how school buses that have wheel chair lifts have smaller tires? Even your typical 40 ft school bus will have smaller tires if it is equipped with a wheel chair lift. I've noticed that not many people know why that is and I thought it would be a great idea for a video. Keep up the good work my friend. 👍
@@linuxninja I am a school bus driver myself but I am not talking about the length of the bus. I am literally talking about the size of the tires on the bus. Have you ever noticed how any school bus with a wheelchair lift will have smaller tires than the regular buses, while the frame stays the same. My theory is that they are that way so there won't be a hump at the rear inside the bus, thus making the movement of wheelchairs inside the bus easier.
@@ariceagaandros Could they be running a smaller tire to allow extra space for kneeling to make a flatter surface for wheelchair users to enter through?
What I've found interesting as far as wheelchair lift equipped buses go is the way the buses at Disney World in Florida have a rear door that can convert from normal stairs to a wheelchair lift.
I find this to be a pretty neat feature, and I haven't seen it on any other buses I've ridden on.
Manufacturers do this to allow for a completely flat floor inside & to get the floor level closer to ground level so the wheel chair lift won't have to work over a much greater distance. A standard 22.5 tire would require a floor 4 feet from ground level to accommodate the tire circumference while keeping a flat interior floor (just like a typical Ryder truck) & allowing for normal suspension movement. Instead, they use the low-profile 19.5s & that enables them to build the floor over a foot closer to the ground & still maintain the flat interior floor while still providing complete suspension movement. You can always tell they're stretching the envelope slightly because all of the special needs buses have a bit of a rake to them.
Bus drivers are incredible. As a 1972 high school student I was on music tour with an all-county band in Germany, France, and Belgium and there was one instance where our bus driver maneuvered a particularly narrow and winding street with the buildings practically up to the edge of the road. I was amazed. He drove very, very slowly to be sure where his vehicle was at all times.
In Europe, we have all flat front coaches and the majority of them rear engined as we like to say.
But not too long ago Volvo offered a chassis called the B12m/B10m and the B8r / B9r / B11r / B12r and B13r (B standing for the chassis model, 12/10 meaning the litres, and the M / Rmeaning where it was situated)
B12m chassis' had their engine and running gear in the middle of the bus (between the wheelbase)
And the B11r chassis had their engines mounted at the rear.
Many people (myself included) would argue this is the perfect place to mount the running gear because it has a much better center of gravity. Especially on bumpy roads this is ideal compared to rear engined coaches where all of the weight is in the back, leaving it as we say, very jumpy.
The B12m succeeded the B10m in the early 2000's due to emissions, and the B12m was unfortunately discontinued in 2010 again due to emissions, which was then succeeded by the B11r chassis we have today.
Volvo Coaches are typically bodied on the B9r, B11r and the B13r, which the B8r and occasionally B9r are used for citybus and intercity coach bodies.
We had a number of B10m / B12m's on the Plaxton Paragon and the Jonckheere body. We operate Vanhool's today because they are the only rear engined coach we find that handle like a middle engined coach due to their weight. Leaving them a lot better on bumpy roads.
B10Ms were simply work horses. Things will go forever .
When I clicked this video, I didn't read the title properly. I thought it was about trucks. When I realized it was about buses I kept watching, because I'm convinced there isn't a cubic centimeter of the universe that isn't mindblowingly interesting. As expected, this video was mindblowingly interesting. I just now realized that I'll watch a lot of your videos, and therefore I'll have to learn a lot about motorcoaches. For starters, I'll have to learn what "motorcoach" means.
I'm happy with this. As I've said many times, "we learn while we live" is false. "We live while we learn" is true.
The Flat Nose or CabOver design help give a better/tighter turning radius. That's why European tractor trails are mostly Cab Over, because of the old narrow european roads.
And why back when the Interstate system in the US has a length limit, Cab overs were extremely popular.
I remember well the catapult effect of the long rear overhang on dog-nosed school buses. When I was in grade school my friends and I always sat in the very back seat. The bus route crossed a bridge over a small creek and there was a big bump up onto the bridge deck which the bus drive never slowed down for. We would get launched fully off the seat into the air. We figured out that the effect could be amplified by jumping up off the seat a little before the rear bus tires hit the bump. If you timed it right, you would be coming back down just as the seat started coming up. You would hit the seat thereby compressing the seat cushion and get an extra upward boost. Done just right, you could touch the ceiling of the bus. Great way to start the day each morning.
Been there and done that. One time the person in the rear seat ended up one seat forward after the bridge. The driver slowed down after that.
I’m always amazed at how ugly North American buses and coaches look compared to what we have here in Scotland.
The company I work for have Neoplan Tourliner’s and VDL Futura’s for tour and private hire.
We primarily see 50 foot Plaxton Elite’s for intercity services although we are now seeing more and more Panoramas. Most places use ADL Enviro singe and deckers for local bus routes although a lot of operators also run the smaller Optare Solo’s on tight routes.
I’ve really been enjoy your content, it’s interesting to see the similarities and differences on many aspects of the job, keep them coming 👍
Ah the Neoplan, Yes, we have them in the US. Can't remember when I saw one last. I seem to remember an articulated dual front axle coach.
It's all relative....we find many North American buses good looking compared to European coaches. Just depends on what you are used to.
British buses are so so much better than these huge American buses.
The ‘ugly school buses’ is an icon to America, literally show anyone in the world a picture of a yellow school bus and everyone knows it’s an American school bus, same for the iconic NYC yellow Victoria cabs. Wish I could say the same about Scotland
Yall's stuff looks ugly to me, our stuff looks ugly to you. I think truth is, it's all ugly. Lol
Here in Brazil we have a majority of flat nose buses, as far as I know, every single bus that is still in production here is a flat nose model, in the state where I live (Pernambuco), they mainly have frontal engines, with the exception of articulated buses and most motorcoaches, they're normally built in truck chassis that are modified by the manufacturer to recieve a bus structure on top.
The top part of the bus is normally manufactured separated from the chassis. The most common chassis manufacturers here nowdays are Mercedes, Volkswagen, Volvo, Scania and Iveco, as for the top portion, we call those manufacturers "encarroçadoras" ("Wagon makers" if translated literally), there are Caio Induscar, Marcopolo, Neobus, Mascarello and Agrale as more common active ones, there is the Busscar, which closed in a decade or so, and some old ones that are out of market for decades (Also worth mentioning that we had/have some foreing produced bus, like old Marmon-Herrington trolleybuses, some Irizar buses that were produced under license and so one).
The "dog nose" ones are normally old buses, they were called as "Jardineiras" (Meaning "Planter/Gardener/Overalls"), some with Ford or Chevrolet chassis, adapted from truck chassis, with a single door near the front axel, one model to search for, as it was the most common, is the "Caio Jardineira", that is a term for a major section of models produced by Caio with this design, also the "Caio Gabriela Andino" ("Andino" means "The one from Andean Mountains", "Gabriela" is a common female name), the last one being mainly used outside of Brazil in other South American countries (Hence the name refering to a mountain chain outside of Brazil). These models were normally used on rural areas, where you woun't find paved roads, nowdays they're normally 4x4 versions of flat nose buses.
Worth mentioning that here in Brazil there isn't a standard rule for urban mass transit buses regarding door numbers and so, there is the "PADRON" study that came to a conclusion to a bus with large enough windows, large enough doors and 2 of them, one for entering (Normally foward of the front axel), the other one for exiting (behind the rear axel in most states, but in Rio de Janeiro you can find them between the front and rear axels). The state where I live has an extra middle door for handicap embarking and disembarking (In other states, they would normally use the rear door) in the majority of buses (The ones who don't have them are normally not adapted for handicap transport, as they don't have a wheelchair elevator, yes, this was a reality up until the 2010s, and some buses from that era were still in operation up until 2020, this in the metropolitan region, as rural places still operate old buses with this configuration). Articulated buses have often 3 doors, we're still talking about right side doors, but the amount tends to mirror to the left side if the bus uses that too in stops (On the BRT systems, for example, as they bypass the ticket gate, so you pay the ticket to board the station instead of paying it inside of the bus... Aaaaand some people find their way to bypass both and ride for free... Brazil is for professionals), but here where I live, as well as in some other states, you might see articulated BRT buses with 4 doors on the left side (Search for "Mobi-pe Caio Millennium BRT" or "CoNorte Neobus Mega BRT/Marcopolo Viale BRT" if you wanna see photos of those), and 3 on the right side, yup, it's a mess.
As far as trucks go, currently we only produce flat nosed trucks, you can find some "dog nose" ones, but they're not in production anymore, some more recent, some older, like the Scania 111S (Nicknamed "Jacaré", means "alligator"), Scania 113H and Mercedes Atron (This one ceased production about 2 years ago, being the last produced semi-truck "bicudo", as we call here, it means "The one with a big beek/nose"). The reason why we don't have them here anymore is due to regulations, as here the maximum lenght of a truck and semi-truck also counts it's cabin and nose, so a flat nose gives you more space for cargo, but in the case of rocks, sand and other dense grains and materials transportation, those "dog nose" trucks and semi-trucks were still used, due to the weight of the cargo exceeding the maximun allowed by law before the lenght and height would ever do, and as they were cheaper to maintain and looked prettier in the eyes of some truckers.
We can all agree that both types are great! Buses and trucks are awesome. Good video!
I expected to get bored a few minutes in, but instead I got completely sucked in and was surprised the video was ending! Thank you for accepting me into the motorcoach world.
Thank you for the kind words Benjamin. Means a lot to me.
Comments like these give me the drive to keep making videos like these.
Having driven both types of school buses, I greatly prefer the rear engine type. It has greater visibility and just drives better in my opinion. Love your channel!
Even as a very young child, I was always fascinated by buses, and always wanted to become a professional motor coach operator. Many years later, after spending much of my career in public service, I by chance opportunity got to attend a open house recruitment for bus driving jobs in an east coast state. After being hired, obtaining my CDL, and being trained on school buses, I was assigned to the company's transit and motor coach division, where I operated every type of equipment that they owned. My favorite were the motor coaches, which I drove all over the east coast and into Ohio and Canada. I probably would still be working there except that I relocated to another state where I took another executive assignment in my former career field. When I tell people of my time as a professional bus driver, they seem confused knowing of my past. But, honestly, it was a dream that had long been deferred. And, I would quickly do it again. By the way, I was only one of two drivers at the company who could operate he self-shifting MCL motor coaches that the company owned at the time.
I drive a special needs school bus, flat nose, front engine, short bus. I drove a 2007 Thomas truck/bus for my first 5 years. I hated that thing. The truck chassis shook that bus apart, me included. I recently upgraded to a 2016 Bluebird. What a difference! It has a coach chassis and drives like a dream compared to the Thomas. I much prefer the flat nose for the visibility, especially where children are involved.
When I lived in NYC, my routines had me frequently in neighborhoods around the bus depots. Whether it was new drivers or old drivers on radically new equipment (like the transition from high to low floor buses, or from repurposed local buses to commuter grade express buses), it was always amusing to watch the drivers learning to corner the buses. Especially if you caught the show by a stop that had a supervisor or two. Later in life, when I finally got my license, the lessons learned of always knowing where your wheels are and the center of your turning radius, helped a great deal. If only they'd had some advice for parallel parking (besides DON'T).LOL!
When I was working for a moving company, they wanted us to start parking along the spaces, and not in them. Had to parallel park one of the straight trucks a few times, have done it on the street, backed down a whole apartment complex road once. Doing a bus... whew. Have done it once, since the school board requires you to be able to back them up in a space, with about three feet of clearance between you and the other two busses.
Always loved the massive panoramic view of a flat nose as a kid while chatting with the bus driver
I drive a rear engine Blue Bird school bus. I definitely prefer driving it over a front engine bus. Much less noise and more comfortable. They are also more fun to drive in my opinion. Great video!
Thanks for sharing Joe. Ive never had the pleasure of driving a Rear engine School bus. I have driven a front engine School bus and yes they are loud.
The reason Semi's were snub nosed was length. For a while, we had laws that said a tractor trailer combo could only be under a certain total length. They developed the snub nose tractor to allow longer trailers that could hold more cargo. Those laws are gone now so you don't see many brand new snub nose tractors on the road. I always assumed that there was a max bus length and they made snub nose buses to get more bus.
I’ve heard the dog nose style called a “cut-away”. In most cases this refers to the passenger body being attached to an incomplete or “cut away” chassis.
Thanks Marcus Jones. Yes Ive heard that term as well. Ive heard them being called so many different names I didnt know which one to use LOL.
@@MotorcoachWorld cut away refers to a truck or van chassis having some type of body (like a bus or box ) put on it
@@MotorcoachWorld cut away in school bus usage would refer to a van chassis bus and IC's AE and AC, the f550 and M2 chassis are also examples, since part of cab is removed vs conventional school buses which are built on a cowled chassis which hood, engine, steering wheel, and dashboard are included. A Thomas C2 is a cowled chassis based bus as it uses a different windshield than the related M2. My assigned bus is a C2.
Coming from Montréal, I can definitively say that Nova's LFS are one of the classiest !
As driver with experience across school, transit and motor coach I tend to like the flat front of transit and coach. I notice in the US a lot of urban school bus routes are flat-front "type D" transit style (as apposed to "C type" Conventional school bus). I surmise this is for the same reason transit buses are as it minimizes the tail swing and one can maneuver the door into curb-side better with out hitting or riding the curbs. In transit we could slightly overhang the curbs when pulling in eliminating the gap that passengers had to cross especially in some common designs of terminals and bus loops. Also I like the quieter ride on the longer transit shift or coach run to another place far away. However, my students love the catapult zone on the speed humps.
If someone said "hey you should watch a RUclips video about different kinds of busses" I would've ignored them, but I'm honestly fascinated now. I thought a lot about this in grade school and I literally haven't thought about it since, but this is a super interesting topic and you did a great job explaining it.
When I was an elementary school student in the US in the early 1990s, the school system of the city I lived in had both the "nosed" and "flat-faced" kinds of school buses. At that age, I considered the nosed variety to be "normal" and the flat variety to be "ugly".
Rear engine buses also do better in snow & other bad weather. The Coaches with the dognose are mostly for smaller capacity " luxury Coaches" usually with beverage compartments built in. We just called them Minibuses. They also have a much worse ride than snubnose models. I took a Coach on a Ski trip ( in the snow) up to a resort & while I had to pay very close attention to road ahead & plan accordingly I didn't have much trouble. The monocock design makes for a solid unit. But School buses mostly have a almost middle when it comes to rear swing. I started with Schoolbuses then was trained for Motorcoach between my School runs. With a Coach you can cheat a little with your nose "slightly" over the curb.( while watching for peds or poles & such.)
The term you're looking for is called "Cutaway" for the truck based buses. I avoid them like the plaque, and I think they're significantly much more difficult to drive than a normal bus.
Y'all are some big nerds, and I love that. It's always interesting to listen to people involved and knowledgeable in their craft.
Good to see you James. Belated happy New Year. I drove them all. I still prefer a rear engine coach. A guy I worked for used to have Crystal 38 passenger buses.. I drove them in and around the Wash DC area and I didn't like the steering and they were noisy and didn't have air rid. A+ for the topic. The flat nose trucks you referred to are know as Cab Overs. The semi trucks with a front engine are called conventionals. Stay safe up there.
The short nosed busses, that look like hybrids between longnose and flatnose, are also truck based, but this time based on a flatnose truck design. As the engine sits directly behind the front axle, but the passenger entrance door is behind the engine, the driver's seat is placed also behind the front axle to allow for interactions between driver and passengers e.g. to pay the fare.
So they are basically like the old Mitsubishi minivans but in large.
I once drove a dog nose school bus when I was a kid. It was a 1979 International Harvester S1853 Schoolmaster school bus that was rotting away (along with a bunch of other vehicles) on my great-grandparents' farm in a small rural town in Northern Michigan. I don't remember which diesel engine it had, but I don't remember hearing a turbo whistle so it was probably NA. It also had a 5-speed manual transmission, and the clutch was so heavy that my seven-year-old self had to stand on the clutch pedal in order to get the pedal to the floor. The shift pattern was different than any others I've seen. Most 5 speed shift patterns are 1 2 3 4 5 R, but the shift pattern on the bus was 1 R 2 3 4 5.
Wow, this is a tought topic! About the half nose, it was supposed to be the best of both worlds, as in, engine in the front, without the weird curved stairwell, with the giant dog house (the engine cover thats on the inside for those that dont know). The snub noses don't have that, and have a traditional stairwell.
But, they used the space that would be empty under the dash, shoving the engine, like in a van (why vans built on truck frames, i.e. Econolines, Express, Ram, had smaller hoods). So there was no need for the full nose length. THey were thought to be better in cities. The issue I heard was that they were a pain to work on, so they stopped making them that way.
I think Id condense a bus design to cost, driver maneuverability for the area where it operates, and maintenance....which I guess is the same for anything, except if you drive a Hummer H1 lol
Also, I can't give you an LFS but if you want to drive my DAC, youre more than welcome. It has more front overhang than the Nova. Doing sharp turns feels more like moving sideways lol.
I have driven buses, trucks (semi and box trucks), motor homes and now a school bus since 1974. I have always heard the different style buses called, "conventional" and "flat nose". Your video pretty much covers the reasons for the two styles and their uses. Good video.
The nightmare I have about driving a dog nose school bus is that some little kids are in front when you pull out and you don't see them. I know there are mirrors, but still.
I assuming you mean when when you are stopped and dropping them off. Most busses have an 8 foot arm that comes out when a bus is stopped with the stop sign deployed, this arm forces the child to remain in view of the driver as they cross the road.
I’m a motor vehicle enthusiast in general from cars, to motorcycles. But I never considered that anybody would be a bus enthusiast. This is kinda cool
The cab over design or flat nosed if you prefer was originally designed for use in cities were turning radius is reduced. It also improves visibility when the vehicle turning
I have a love of buses. As a kid I dreamt of driving one someday. When I turned 16, my first purchase was a VW bus.
Conventional = Engine at the front of the bus covered by a cowl.
Transit = Any bus without a front cowl. If the engine is in the front, it is under the driver and covered by a "dog house."
Glad I found your channel. I have worked for my local school district as well as two charter companies.
I definitely prefer transit buses, and I would like to share some of my most and least favorite features of the buses I have driven.
MCI J4500:
Pro: The curved stairs and the ramp that leads into the passenger compartment.
Con: Steering tag axle instead of lifting axle
Van Hool / Temsa:
Pro: The service door which opens parallel to the bus instead of extending out like a sedan door.
Con: Both made overseas and can be difficult to get parts.
Prevost H3-45:
Pro: Tall luggage bays. Most luggage can be loaded vertically on their wheels making loading and unloading much easier. Plus, extra storage bay in stairwell under first passenger seat.
Con: Restroom door often slides open when making turns.
Prevost X3-45:
Pro: Panels over the rear wheels can be opened making it easier to install chains in the winter.
Con: Fewer compartments for driver's convenience.
No matter the subject, I enjoy learning from your well thought-out and produced videos! Thanks, James.
Here in Australia, we use transit and coach bus for schools and trips. I haven't seen front engine bus. Australian use flat front end busses, there's a time lag whenever you turn, we called it over hang. When leaving parking, try to leave a gap infront and park your tail at slight angle away from the kerb. Thus will ensure you won't have deadly tail swing.
Those Novas are sweet. We have a bunch in the fleet at Disney world and honestly I prefer driving them over the Gilligs that we have. The great thing about those Novas are they have about 4 feet of overhang. it take some getting used to but once you learn how to use it you can do a lot of tight turns around curves.
Oh man Ive always loved the way NOVAs looked. I want to try driving one so bad! Maybe one day. Thanks for the Comment Benji.
I'm a bus driver at Walt Disney World. This is very interesting. We have many Nova buses in our fleet.
I grew up in Asia and I'm used to seeing a lot of flat front buses, with a very rare school and workers transport buses with the dog nose fronts. However, when I was in school, it wasn't too rare to see a flat front bus with a front engine type where the driver seats over the front wheels, and the front passenger door is recessed slightly to the back behind the front wheels. The engine is situated in the middle or slightly to the side of the driver, and you could see a raised cover over the engine assembly. There would be space for only one passenger seat in front of the front door and that seat would be highly sought after by the school kids. These are probably really rare now and are probably aged out by now.
But that special single seat would get real hot.
@@videhvora2927 It's still off the engine, I would imagine it'll be just as hot for the driver but I think the ventilation would help. Don't recall it being warmer.
Randomly got recommended this video and it piqued my interest since I always wondered what the differences were. Thanks for finally clearing this question i’ve had for years mate!
I've watched a lot of schoolie builds and I've never understood why people chose the dog nose or front engine buses. I would totally go with the rear engine. It just makes more sense for the reasons you mentioned.
It is all about maintenance. School buses have very long service lives (15-20 years minimum) and do almost exclusively stop-and-go driving, so easy access to the engine and the front suspension and brakes for maintenance and inspections is important.
@@stephenj4937 In a school district setting it makes sense. For a schoolie conversion, in my opinion does not make sense.
@@Mr.Ramirez95 What's the difference of the word "school" between a "school district setting" and a "schoolie conversion"?
@@raygrinders3918 not sure if I spelled schoolie correctly. It might be Skoolie. Where people buy a retired school bus and convert it to an RV. The engine should be in the rear for comfort.
I would choose a conventional because they look better, and eaiser to work on. I like coaches and transit buses, but school busses look best as a conventional FE. The only reason a RE would ride better is either; has air ride, or has double wishbone front suspension. The city's Gillig Lowfloors ride nice, but they seem like wallow, and bang the bumpstops on hard bumps and potholes.
Hey James! I love watching your videos! Trucks that have a dog-nose configuration are called conventional, and flat nose trucks are called cabovers, or COE (cab over engine). Keep posting!
Interesting! I grew up in middle Georgia where all our busses had noses. I almost never saw the "ugly flat face busses" except for when I visited California where they seem to be preferred. I wasn't aware of the functional differences, but to this day flat faced school busses at least still creep me out.
Didnt know i could sit though a 17 minute bus video
Nice job
James, second comment today I’ve just come across your channel and have just subscribed. I am now retired after having worked in the industry ever since I left school and I find the channel extremely interesting showing the similarities and differences between US and UK operations
As for engine placement, there are pros and cons for all the options. For front mounted engines the pros can be easy maintenance access and good airflow through the engine bay, cons, noise and ‘wasted space’ A variation of this was the UK half cab location in which the driver was placed along side the engine rather than sat behind it, this reduced the loss of usable space and was fine when a conductor was carried but wasn’t very helpful when the industry changed to one man operation, having a great big lump of oily metal in the way wasn’t exactly ideal.
The next solution was to flip the engine onto its side and mount it either between the axles or in the rear of the vehicle, this was mainly due to the size of the engines an eight to ten litre engine isn’t exactly tiny and in UK construction and use regs you had a strictly enforced length limit (at the time 30ft, this was later increased to36ft) Pros, more efficient use of space, typically being able to carry more people than the earlier half cab in the same overall length and better noise/fume isolation, cons, less easy maintenance access and if the designers didn’t get their sums right a higher tendency for failure.
The logical extension was, with the availability of newer, smaller more powerful engines which allows them to be mounted vertically at the rear driving forward to the drive axle, good for noise/fume isolation but poor for access, with modern vehicles and the amount of excess plumbing they have attached for emissions control the engine bays can get quite cluttered.
Most UK double Deck vehicles from about 1967 on had the engine mounted transversely across the back of the vehicle driving forward through an angle drive to the rear axle. This shows exactly why they were put there as the engine/gear box assembly would fill the space across the rear of the vehicle (about 8ft)
Re bespoke bus chassis versus truck conversion, a major factor in this is that with a truck conversion it would be rather difficult to arrange for disability access on the the thing, the typical truck being designed to have a bed height a certain height above the ground. In the UK, and I have no doubt in the US, as well PCV vehicles are required to be accessible which requires them to be low floor and be wheelchair accessible. This means that the ground clearance isn’t very much which is a pain if you have to change a wheel outside of the workshop and requires a specific and specialised suspension design, usually air with both chassis lift and chassis kneel functions, trucks usually aren’t that complex. That’s why buses cost a lot more than trucks.
Hey Geoff. Sorry it took me a bit to reply. I enjoyed reading your post. Thanks for taking the time to write this it was very interesting to read. You should know your stuff man. Thank you so much for subscribing to the channel and for giving me all this info.
I never knew I was interested in busses until now. The RUclips algorithm has blessed me with another great video.
Thanks for the video! I have a Toyota Hiace Grand Cabin and I love how clean it looks with the flat nose. To be honest that's the main reason why I wanted one.
My dad has coach busses and spending time with my dad traveling or working on them made me love this wheeled boxes that are actually cool.
This one cracks the top 5 for most random recommended video ive watched all the way through 🤣
Hello from East Central Illinois! I just came across your channel and loved the video! Cheers
Any "box" on a chassis that includes the standard hood and possibly a partial standard cab in the front portion is often called a "cutaway".
In the world of motor homes, diesel pushers are spendier
In the rural area I grew up in, the school busses were basically Ford or Chevy conventional chassis with the bus body on them.
I love how there's community for literally anything on the internet. I would never imagine that bus nuts bus nuts.
I never see semi trucks or buses with noses in South Africa, I wondered why that's the case, I've only ever seen one dog nose semi, made me go "huh".
Also why do Americans calls Ford 150s called trucks while 18 wheelers get called semi-trucks, like shouldn't semi-truck < truck
I just have the nostalgia of sitting at the far back of a school bus down here in Louisiana with really bumpy roads and hitting the bumps to get that big jump effect. I remember some kid hitting the roof like an idiot with their head.
Finally someone answers a question I never knew I wanted to know the answer to.
Being from suburban Chicago, I admit I liked seeing CTA busses, and some downtown locations... I think one was Michigan ave... Saw the numbers (routes) of a few, and know where they are...
It late at night, and I tired... Easily amused/entertained... Should probably go to sleep...
Will definitely be watching more of this channel... Thanks...
Back in my hometown (Zaria, Nigeria), Toyota vans are used for public transit.
Great video! I've driven Gillig LF and Nova LFS as well as Nova LFS Artics and New Flyer Artics. You're so right, that overhang on a NOVA takes some real getting used to, especially the initial distraction of seeing your front tire in the mirror on turns. I will say though, the shorter wheelbase makes it great for tight turns, especially U-turns.
You mentioned the VW and Toyota vans. I had a bunch of the mid to late 60s Chevy vans back in the 80s and 90s. You sat next to the engine as you drove. Sitting in the back seat of one of these was about like sitting in the front seat of a typical truck or car. Being that far forward in one of these gave the driver a better view of the front when making turns. I used to take my friends for a ride in them and freak them out when turning or parking close to things. lol I did, however, have ONE van that was a rear engine, based on the Corvair Greenbriar. It drove better in the snow due to the extra weight at the drive axle, giving it better traction. I really miss my old vans!
Just an anecdote on the Toyota Previa (that flat nosed minivan Toyota made). I don't know if it improved over the years, but my parents got the 2-wheel drive version of it when I was in college. It was so poorly balanced with the engine sitting in the middle of the car (to check the oil, you had to lift up the middle row passenger seat) that we would literally slide on surfaces that we had no business sliding on at sub 10-mph (dry leaves on a slight incline, damp asphalt). My dad didn't initially believe the rest of us, thinking we didn't know how to drive properly, and then he couldn't get up our driveway in the rain one day and it was traded in the next day for the 4-wheel drive version. These were probably the 1989 or so version of the car. Admittedly, the 4-wheel drive version worked far better and they kept it for a number of years.
I remember back in the 8th grade, I lived on an acreage and my bus would usually drop me off at the edge of the dirt road.
Fun story, I usually sat near the front because since I was usually the last student to be dropped off, my driver and I would casually chat. The bus hit an unavoidable bump on my acreage. So the next day, I sat in the Catapult Zone, and holy crap I sprung up like a rocket. As I held on for dear life, I was laughing hysterically. I trusted my driver of course, no one got hurt. 🤣
My wife used to drive for a school district, her first bus was a snub nose, the motor was beside her; one of the disadvantages was dips, most of the time the front of the bus would drag or dig in. Her second one was what you call a dog nose, she preferred the second one
I always loved sitting in the back of my school bus for that fun bouncy ride. Even though the bus driver dedicated the back for the older kids. I always found a way to sit back there.
I've been seeing a lot more snub-nose school buses within the past few years. It's also my understanding that most school buses today have seat belts for passengers (which they didn't when I was a kid) and automatic transmissions (most were stick shift way back when).
I still remember riding home 10 miles on a Gillig 108 passenger school bus with tire chains in the 1970's during a freak snow storm. I thought my teeth were going to fall out. I also thought these were mid engine but I don't have any knowledge about if there ever were any mid engine school busses.
I laughed when you said in NA these buses can pretty well go every where. Our compy has to deal with a very popular wedding neighborhood on a hill overlooking the city. Narrow streets, lined with parked cars. We've just flat out said.. we cant take the buses up there. Also popular are "farm" weddings. Dirt roads still exist and definitely dirt drives. We often send a driver out to access the accessibility of a site. And sometimes it's not good news.
That said, I absolutely loved your video. I'm office personnel and really didn't know lots of this stuff.
I drive a bus in my country. Similar to the one you drive but mine's a 12meter 4x2. It really is a good bus to drive especially on tight turns and traffic, and it has better fuel economy than what i've used to do in a "dog nosed".
As someone who rode the bus to school for many years this has always been a little curious question that has hung around in my mind for years especially after I started working in Bloomington Normal and watching the city buses go while on my smoke break.
And as long as that's the Peoria charter that I think it is then hello from about 45 min southeast of you.
Hey Jim LOL small world. Yes I work for Peoria Charter that's why you see a lot of Peoria charters buses in my videos haha.
I drive by that school bus station quite a bit.
It's been so long since I last rode in a school bus I'd forgotten how much I loved sitting far back and getting launched into the air, I swear sometimes I would clear like a foot.
I remember in the early 1990s when I was picked up from the bus stop in a flat-nose bus. I thought it was so cool. Sometimes I would see other flat nosed buses from other school with weird emergency side doors or the seats would be different. Some buses had the two-three seating while others had the 2.5-2.5.
Limbusines is what one Limousine Company called their “dog nose” truck chassis front engine, the inside of those look seem less, even though they are custom conversions leather seats flat screen TV’s. Great Video! Thank you!
I drive for a rural transit outfit in the US, and all we have are truck-chassis buses. We occasionally get Freightliners here, and they're generally not bad, but we mostly have buses built on Ford F-series frames, which are much smaller, and have gas engines, while the Freightliners are diesels. The Freightliners, despite being larger and noisier, are actually much better to drive, since they sit higher and don't have as big a blind zone to the right as the Fords.
The passenger compartments (at least the ones we have) are built pretty cheaply. Within 20,000 miles, bits of trim and wall covering come loose, and in one case the pole holding the farebox fell off. The walls are basically plywood and plastic, so they won't do much of anything in a collision
I am licenced to operate a 53 passenger bus in Japan. Flat nose rear engine. Its also a 5 speed manual. (Electronic stick and a traditional clutch) its a mitsubishi fuso. Its fun to drive
As just a regular guy that likes to know 'Why?' this was a fascinating video and very well done.
My favorit busses are doubble articulated trolleybusses in my Hometown in Switzerland. I just love to watch them bend around corners, and they are good for the climate.
I'm always amazed on trips to California (LA and San Diego...last time was 7 years ago). that the schools were still using busses from Crown Coach...which went out of business in 1991.
We had some of the 4:09 buses in my school district. Those actually stood out to me a lot more than the flat nosed school buses.
Great vid! Those body-on-chassis buses are called 'cutaways'
In regards to the truck styles, a flat nosed European and older American truck is a “cab-over” [the engine]. You are correct in calling the “dog nose” trucks with the engine sticking out “conventional” trucks.
Thank you! Appreciate the comment
2:17 aha good ol’ Winston Dissel, bus did surprising well off-roading in the video.
Nice tidbits. Thanks Wong!
As a kid i lived in a very rural area. In middle school I always sat in the back seat of the bus. One day the bus driver was driving over a pretty rough dirt road and hit a huge pothole at speed. This caused about 3 rows of kids to go flying, and me being pretty tall (5'10"), my head actually hit the ceiling!
Growing up taking a bus to school I remember taking both kinds.
Regarding School buses, they also exist as flat-nosed style advantage of these as a school bus is they can carry more than a Cargo Truck chassis style school bus. They can also be used as transit buses examples are Thomas HDX school buses being used as transit buses by MTA New York state as Hudson Railink
I didn't know I was interested in buses until now. Now I'm interested in buses.