just to make a small point. in your video on why you stopped being a therapist you mentioned you never worked with children as you don't think children should be in therapy but in this video you mention you have 'worked a lot with children in many contexts' (at the 2 minute stage of this video). I'm not criticizing your whole video. Just mulling over and thinking about what you say but just wanted to make this point.
Hi Rebecca -- thanks for your comment. It's may seem like a small point, as you say, but it's an important one. sorry for the confusion. I didn't work with children as a therapist, but I did work with children a lot in other contexts (as a musician, teacher, camp counselor, etc.). Hope that clarifies it a bit. all the best, Daniel. P.S. I've been asked this several times and have replied several times, and I want to pin this comment to the top comments so that others who are wondering the same thing can see your comment and my reply...but I can't seem to pin it to the top. Do you have any idea how to do this?
@@dmackler58 thank you for the reply. Really glad you clarified. Sorry if you've been asked before. I'm just reading a book about psychiatry by James Davies called cracked and it explores similar things that you have mentioned so interesting watching your videos which I found by accident. Thanks.
Children like to blame parents for their own failures, and take credit for their accomplishments as if the parents played no role in facilitating them. It works *both* ways. Yet, people, often who are NOT parents, would rather scapegoat the parents for anything that goes wrong in someone's life. Funny how anyone, who has ever lived, has the convenience of having a parent to blame. Yet, society deems abortion as acceptable. Society is SICK BEYOND REDEMPTION.
@@kristenmarie9248 Right, that kind of reasoning can go both ways and often does. Know why? Because children learn to mirror other people's behaviours within the environment of their upbringing, particularly their parents' concious AND UNconcious behaviour (as was described in this very video). Who has the power to set a good example in that scenario? Who has the responsibility to care for the other, provide conditions for growth and teach values for future human interactions? Who has the legal and economical power to set standards and to change them within the family structure? The child? You also said that eveyone who ever existed "conveniently" has patents to blame for all their misfortunes. I don't know what kind of point you are trying to make here honestly, because it does really mean that every abusive person that ever existed had parents who had the opportunity and/or responsibility to care for them and be great rolemodels for their offspring, but unfortunately failed at some point due to various reasons, some of them very direct and obvious, some of them indirect. As was mentioned in the video, neglect is also a form of abuse. And how does abortion fit the picture you are trying to paint here? What does it have to do with your other point? If anything, you just made the case for abortion, because that's a procedure for people, who are certain, that they don't want to or are unable to care for a child at that particular moment in their life, so why shame them in to having children and shame them even more for not caring about their children properly, when that was the very reason they were seeking abortion in the first place?
@@kristenmarie9248 "Yet, people, often who are NOT parents, would rather scapegoat the parents for anything that goes wrong in someone's life." So untrue. A completely emotional non-objective statement. What are you afraid of? Being judged? We all make mistakes, as a parent you're going to make them (which is not the same as abuse) and we usually make them because our parents made them before us and they because of their parents and so on. It's an unpleasant truth but you can't change truth just because you don't like it. And yes as a collective we are sick and have problems, shedding light on these problems and trying to fix them is part of the solution. Or do you know a better way?
This is how critique should be done. Rather than being superficial, you bring decades of your own experience to the discussion and talk about the concept in question rather than being preoccupied with the man himself. Just a level discussion of “what have I observed, and how does the book compare?”. In-depth, passionate, and clean of any ad hominem tangent. Being someone who spends most of my YT time in the critique end of the website, I wish more people reviewed things in this fashion. Thank you.
My feed shows up too much of JP at times and many of these knockoff videos with very tacky titles. I have an issue with the person also. He seems paranoid to me. I know little of him and need to understand better. He may have sensible things to say but why is he so worked up?
@@RishiAggarwal old comment but overall I still value what JBP brought in his college lectures. What he did was tie classic stories into the context of psychological struggle and compare that in terms of history and true-crime research, making the point that "this scene in Pinocchio is a simplified representation of a male's need to fall in with their group, to sometimes disastrous consequences, and here's the real-world cases where this sort of thing caused great calamity, and here's the personal examples of how it could be affecting your own life". It's an encouragement not to ignore your own struggle, or that of the world, but to see that everything has consequences and every action of change requires work beforehand to happen; and he uses readily-accessible examples from culture as stand-ins for these concepts so you can relate to it and take it seriously. You can go to lectures about "the effects of gang violence" and agree with it intellectually, but then there's lobster-dad pointing out with intense eye-contact "ok but real talk, if _you_ were in a mob and everyone started smashing the windows and graffitiing, odds are _you would too._ And the less you recognize that ahead of time, the more susceptible you'll be to fall into it. You think it won't happen to you, but it will, whether an extreme cartoonish example or something mundane." That's what I respected there at least. The way he drew connections between problems and challenged you to find your own pattern and take your place in this world seriously. He dropped off for me after he got sick and then joined DailyWire. He's on this antagonistic bent against socialist ideals in a way that's clouding his judgment to the point of working in tandem with political mouthpieces; excusing and ignoring the mistakes made on his own side which is very uncharacteristic of how he used to be. He was better as a socio-psychological counselor than he is as a one-sided political heckler.
While I see chapter 5 in another light I think this kind of critique, aside from speculation in JBP's childhood, crusial; it's easy to read JBP and make it into a Bible. It's a guidance. In the end it's up to us to decide what out moral values are and how to raise our children. Personally I think a 2 y o is 90 percent nature and so many parents are not really grown up themselves.
My husband was never allowed to do anything his parents didn't like or do things that made them dislike him. He ended up with a life that wasn't his and has crashed and burned under the immense weight of the pressure. He is 28 and just now beginning to grieve the losses of being treated like an art project one makes from scratch ("let me make you how I want you") rather than something to be "uncovered/discovered" over time ("who are you? who are you becoming?"). I can understand "don't let your children do anything harmful to themselves/something that would bring them harm"; but to do not do anything the parent doesn't like? The whole point of humanity is to be unique and separate from another - that will naturally beget likes and dislikes from others. It's natural. I think this is why we have an entire generation of many boomer parents who cannot fathom their children being separate entities from themselves with needs and wants that don't revolve around them - this sort of thinking is why. They are enmeshed psychologically and view children either as an extension of themselves or their property rather than separate beings you have the gift to guide/coach until they can manage on their own.
I.e., they are narcissistic parents (definition being - they use their children for their own needs, rather than being a resource that their *children* can use as needed. Abdul Saad of Vital Mind Psychology has a great video on The Childhood Origins of Narcissism that explains this - using your child for your own needs being the origin of narcissism)
Greetings to your hubby and kudos to you for supporting his process. A few thoughts that have helped me: 1) as adults we are allowed to be our own best parents for our inner child, and to try to repair what was wrong when growing up. 2) It is never too late to "have" a happy childhood, which I have understood as to do comforting and helpful things through my adult life, have compassion for my feelings and allow them all, making a distinction between feelings and actions and values - values being the beacons. I do many "childish" things and I bless my child and grandchildren IRL for playing with me, as well as having found my second husband and loving him for being so many positive things in my life, including being my playmate.
Jordan Peterson always reminds me of Iain MacLeod's famous line about Enoch Powell: "I follow his logic as far as I can, but I always get off before the train hits the buffers."
I worked as a daycare teacher for almost 10 years. It was fairly easy to spot a connection between a child’s acting out and behaviors of the parents, even when only seeing a tip of the iceberg. It was common practice for teacher’s to spot and discuss red flag parents, and say....“Hmmmm”
Ever heard of something they call “PANDAS”? Children who are acting out in rage are now said to have this medical condition….but I happen to know the significance of the panda bear to child molesters and so this must be the corrupt mental Health systems idea of a sick joke? Oh inverted world.
Thank you for your perspective. I would like to add that not a lot of people know that neglecting a child is also abuse and source of trauma that leads to aggression that you mentioned at age of 2. And people tend to underestimate what neglect is and its effects. At very newborn stage, leaving them alone in the crib, not showing affection and communication, all that already starts the retardation of cognitive development. Some people say "Oh, I know friends who are very nice and unlikely to be child beaters at home, but their children still turned out to be uncivilized, biting" etc. Yes, they might not have been directly abusive to the child in the physical sense, but you don't know if that toddler in his infancy was crying all nights long asking to be picked up, but the parents just took it as normal stage for "sleep training" or "he'll learn to self-sooth". That child received a subconcious message that they're unwelcome to this world, or that this world is hostile, and their basic sense of security has not fully formed. Some parents think that the baby consists of only of their physical body and ignore the needs of their mind and soul for healthy development. And then get surprised how could they become "little monsters".
Coddling children is just as bad if not worse than neglecting them. While neglect can be harmful, it will naturally strengthen children, whereas coddling will lead to weak and needy, narcissistic children.
My overall take on him is that he is that he is a frustrated academic. He doesn’t like having to operate within the rules and confines of academia but he doesn’t want to give up the security and benefits of tenure either. I think this makes him very conflicted. There is always an underlying tone of victimhood with him - which is interesting, as he has led a very privileged life.
I'm 68. My parents and others of their generation believed in 'molding' the perfect child, not letting them blossom into whoever they wanted to be. Either we complied or we rebelled. Result? Guilt, shame, confusion, depression & unfulfillment of many in my generation.
I just wanted to comment something, and thought your comment is a good point to start. It's not a critique of any way, but just a view that might give you some solace. I have the similar situation as you mentally, but in the different generation. At the same time I see my pierce, who have been tought in the opposite matter. Thus, the freedom of expression parents gave them left them with no boundaries and understanding of how they are suppose to behave in life, how it works, and deep longing for someones attention and guidance, which they paradoxically can't accept, cos they have never been tought to.
@@YuriLongarms I see your point. Yes, the pendulum can swing the other way, and as a teacher who's observed many young children raised by a variety of parenting styles, there are those children who crave guidance and structure.They make mistakes as adults they should have made as kids with guiding, teaching parents to follow up with them. result? Entitlement, confusion, depression, anxiety, lack of self discipline.
@@cyndimoring9389Sometimes parents just want to "wash their hands off" the mess they have created; they don't wanna make things worse. People see that as lack of responsibility, and think parents should do more... things that caused the problems in the first place!
Thank you for validating trauma. Peterson himself has said how authoritarian his father was and has also talk about his depression and his own daughter depression issues. I think he is justifying how his parents raised him.
He had a strict father. He has never referred to his father as being an authoritarian as a negative impact on his life. Mikhaila and his depression are much of biological disposition as well. Depression does have some biological basis. Considering they do have similar autoimmune symptoms as well, it is a possibility that the depression and autoimmune are linked.
@@Jwet1100 What? I would suggest you read up on the literature. While all the environmental causes you mentioned do play a big role, it's known that genetic disposition to depression can also play a major role in depression.
I also think that traumatized people tend to seek out partners who have been traumatized and end up marrying each other. So the kids get not only one, but two, broken parents. My siblings also took their issues out on me, the youngest in the family. So now as a child I’m surrounded by 2 parents, two brothers, and a sister who acted out their frustrations and anger on me. I have dissociative identity disorder as a result. Good times…
Hey i'm in a similar boat. I wanted to let you know it does get better. In my case my disassociation is so strong I forget where i'm driving or what I was doing regularly. I am diagnosed adhd as well but imo i just have massive disassociation that acts as adhd. The d.i.d. is kind of an involved convo but yeah I deal with that too. A few things helped me lately. 1. I was prescribed adhd medication 2. I have dopamine system issues. I don't do any substances every day not even sugar or caffeine. My diet, sleep, stimulants, everything is carefully tuned to help me be productive. 3. Theres a ton of self help and therapy I did. I'm 41 I really don't care about the opinions of negative people anymore and I love myself, I love my spiritual higher power and they love me. The best advice I can give people dealing with this stuff is that for me and a lot of people our conditions improved proportional to how much effort we put in. I've been doing one on one, group and self forms of therapy for many years.
N B. YOU are on point 💯. So many ppl do no recovery work ever coming from toxic narcissistic parents/family of origin. Thus they are not self aware at all and yes are attracted to ppl of the same ilk and have toxic marriages and continue the sick attitudes of their parents. Many end up murdered by their spouses. So much TRUE CRIME everywhere on YT. This MO is exposed everywhere today in horrid relationships simply bc no one is examining their family of origin dynamics. Excellent post here, Ty so much for sharing this. I wish ppl had ur observation skills to avoid a lot of tragedy in their lives. 👍👍. I wish u success in healing and u may want to go no contact from ur family. I myself had to go no contact from my parents and siblings bc they too have adopted the identical traits as our parents. It’s amazing to me that out of 7 children in my family I’m the only one who recognizes that the sickness in my family is systemic and how I absolutely at a point wanted nothing to do with any of it or them anymore. I wanted PEACE in my life not narcissistic a-holes. No more drama from my family. God bless you.
Yes and sometimes it’s trauma-informed parents who are most protective and aware of their children. So trauma cannot be an excuse for bad behavior, even when we all know it is a root cause.
Yes thats true a generally healthy person mentally with very little trauma who had a decent upbringing aren't gonna vibe with some who has alot of trauma and is generally messed up they won't put up with it cause they have been taught that isn't normal.
@@daryl9799 People that have overcome trauma or have had the fortune of having a healthy upbringing typically spend time with healthy people. I think the reason is even more simple- mentally well people can see through lies and deceit and it makes them uncomfortable. You cannot build a connection because you cannot trust them.
Yes. Accepting that it being a commonality amongst the religious to 'prove' that all wisdom derives from God, it is my belief that the narcissistic character of God appeals to narcissists because it validates their own behaviour. I suspect that Peterson is a 'convert,' in the sense that all converts go to religion in response to their trauma, and there is little doubt in my mind that his public outbursts (narcissistic rages) are symptoms of (narcissistic) grandiosity. Furthermore, I find his earlier "and that's the damned thing about X"'isms intellectually infantile, as though he just discovered the similarity to scripture, and found it profound in the way that we all find new ideas profound... until we learn more, and our perspective widens.
I'm with you on this. Peterson kind of makes me uneasy in his "lectures". Could never put my finger on it but, you did. Thank you for diving in for a closer look. I haven't had the time. Trauma recognition is key to real help, whether it's self-help or guided by others. Hats off, Doc.
I also have the same feeling. I feel like his point of views may works for extreme conditions to quickly bounce back from bottoms and lows. Toughen people up for a short period of time. But that wouldn't solve the problem from the roots. Cure the surface but rotten underneath.
That's exactly what I feel about JP and Daniel's analysis; but didn't find the right words. Thank you! After initially going "wow!" after watching a few of JP's videos, I started getting disillusioned with him. Daniel here has really done a great job dissecting the JP phenomenon. To take on a famous celebrity psychologist isn't easy. I now wonder if JP has seen this video and responded to Daniel. Daniel never fails to impress me. He truly is a gem.
I skimmed through his book in bookshop and then tried to read between the lines and found him wanting. Teenagers aren't all waiting for Godot when they go to parties and then feel they want to go to a more exciting party. Some are there for the food. Some to hook up and they aren't too fussy who they do it with unlike older people who see the baggage and are more likely to have it themselves. Some because they like to dance and they feel less self conscious about dancing than older people. Two year olds cannot possibly be the most violent humans as they can't hit or kick hard.. They might be kicking and punching because they know their kicks and punches haven't much force.
I agree his tip should be : "If your child does something dislikable from your perspective figure out why you find it dislikable and figure out why your child behaves that way"
not as catchy but more accurate for sure :) here's the thing though - the reason that certain behaviour is annoying to us might be on us. but it might be that kid is "testing the limits" and it's our job as parents to set those limits. Peterson makes a point against popular Rousseaian "noble savage" approach to parenting (where the child is all good and innocent and if it grows unheappy and evil it's all fault of oprresive culture -meaning parents and wider society). These days You can see many irresponsible parents who don't set any rules for their children. He doesn't try to justify child abuse, really. But maybe he should go more into the details on that one to makes sure that this rule is well-understood (I can see how it can be misleading).
The Problem isn't just the name, it's lies his conclusions as well. Whether it is rule number 5 or any other of the 12, he comes up with things that simply do not make sense. I would argue that his rule number 1 is the most harmful. Because it sneaks up on you. What he is advocating for is a strict, unforgiving form of self discipline, likening a different - perhaps healthier approach- to laziness. Also, his biology is very off. Though a lot of people seem to meme his lobster theory, it's shows a very poor understanding of biology; approaching human society from an angle of hierarchy amongst lobsters, a species that has NOTHING to do with mammals and is so distantly related to any vertebrate. Truthfully, I can say that a tunicate (Phylum Chordata) is closer to us humans than a f*cking lobster.
@@UpsideDown853 What about chapter one sneaks up on you? I don't understand your next sentence, but what do you find wrong with having confidence? The fundamental idea of the lobster is to point out the existence of hierarchies dating back a long time.
@@redus2 There's nothing wrong with confidence. Where did you get that idea? I am not disputing Peterson's claims because I disagree with having confidence. In fact I believe confidence is a healthy, necessary part of our development and personality. I disagree with his representation of hierarchies. Jordan Peterson equates things that shouldn't be equated. It doesn't matter how long lobsters have had hierarchies, we aren't related. I don't know how well versed you are with phylogenetics, yet lobsters aren't on our branch. We never evolved from lobsters, or from anything from within that branch. Evolution isn't linear. We have more in common with sea urchins... would you base your society on the way sea urchins live? Would you argue that humans have hierarchies similar to sea urchins? No. (hopefully). What Peterson is saying is that nature intended for hierarchies to exist in a very specific manner. Which isn't true. Let me try to give you an example: if someone were to write a book about self betterment, and in their first chapter they discuss confidence. Then that wouldn't be a problem so long they stick to studies on humans or medicine. However, should they give an example about how trees are happier with a lot of sunlight, going on to imply that for your confidence to rise, you need to rise like trees and stand in the sun 4 hours a day; A lot of botanists would be very upset. Never mind the doctors, biologists and many other people. It's just wrong.
I have to add this, please. When my son was 2, I never said or chimed in to others who said anything about the "terrible twos", and he never exhibited any if those " behaviors". What I always did was give him reasons, and choices. I believe he grew up to be a most sensitive, reasonable young man. What you feed (focus on) grows. Thank you.
I think there's some truth to this, because despite going into an absolutely neglectful and abusive environment at age 5, I still retained my capacity for kindness and empathy. And it had to be the experiences I had with another family I was with just before, that always acknowledged me, asked how I felt about things, let me ask them tons of questions, laughing, expressive smiling faces, and I think the most important thing, never hit me or gave me the silent treatment when I did something wrong. They would get mad, tell me why, and then everything back to normal. No love withholding. It was only a couple months, but memories are still vivid and strong, especially all the crying out I did for them every time the new family abused me. Had I not ever been with them, would've probably turned into a monster in order to cope with all the abuse.
It sounds like you raised your child in a conscious manner. Good on you. I wish more people were "conscious parents" and things like physical discipline were just an embarrassment of the past we dare not repeat. "He who does not learn from/remember his own historys doomed to repeat it." That's supposed to be common sense.
I think much of it is disposition. I've tried this with my children, as much patience and tolerance that i can muster. Giving choices, validation, comfort, rolled with punches (literally) and my son still has tumultuous violent tantrums over the wrong colour cup and he's 4 now
I remember when he was blowing up and i saw like 2 of his videos and he instantly made my feel uncomfortable and i felt he was very fake. But i didn't bother to think about it any further and just stopped watching him. I think this comment is accurate.
@@AmplefiiI enjoyed JBP content for maybe 2/3 years ish trying to understand his beliefs from his point of view but came across critiques that were more convincing and man, feel like I jumped ship right as he started to say crazy shit lol
I’ve never commented on a RUclips video before, but I just had to say how much I appreciate you. I’m a mental health counselor, and I originally found your video about why you stopped counseling. I’ve been in the profession for about 4 years, and have been struggling emotionally and professionally for about a year, and I’m coming to many realizations that you outlined in your “6 reasons” video. I can’t express enough how much your perspective is so spot on with how I’ve been feeling. I feel really alone in my feelings about this, and I feel as if so many mental health professionals emotionally distance themselves from their clients, that I don’t have anyone at the practice I work at to talk to that shares these feelings. I’ve tried to talk with my supervisor, and the advice I’m given is the standard “are you using self-care? If you’re feeling overwhelmed emotionally, put some emotional distance between you and your client.” But the thing is, I don’t feel emotionally overwhelmed by my clients-they’re beyond amazing and I’m seriously honored every day that they share the most intimate parts of themselves with me. It’s the not feeling heard by my colleagues and peers that is emotionally draining. It’s lonely questioning the system that you’re a part of, I just wanted to say how much I appreciate you for talking about what others defend so religiously.
I don't want to sound like a jerk saying this. But as we know, biologically women are much more nurturing and empathetic. Which seems like it would be amazing for counseling professions, but as in your case, it can very well serve the opposite effect. You are too empathetic and it weighs you down.
I think it would be more accurate to say that people with emotional trauma in their childhood often go on to seek resolution to that trauma from the people around them. So they'll seek out the same type of person that originally hurt them, hoping each time that "this time it will be different". This, perhaps, goes some way to explaining why some people end up with a string of abusive partners.
So Sal, while I understand what you are getting at in your statement, it is not commonly thought that people "seek out" more dysfunction in an attempt to "get it right". And further, the common understanding is that people are not aware of this and it is happening on a subconscious level. Are you saying that people are aware of this on a conscious level when getting to know someone new, or in retrospect after another relationship has gone poorly and is mirroring previous relationships? The difference is vital. To me, the latter is true. People realize that the person who they just ended a relationship with is very much like all of the other partners they have had in their lives. The "law of attraction" is the result of being attracted to someone that will closely resemble other people the person has had failed relationships with in the past, but that is not obvious to the person at all as they are getting to know the new person. The person may even think, "finally, I have found a different kind of person!" Then time goes on and the relationship ends as many have before. Another possibility is that the person is becoming aware of the chemistry between themselves and the new partner and then on somewhat of a subconscious level, sabotages the relationship so that it will end like the others have. Then not even be aware that they created the breakup. This is complicated and probably almost completely different in detail for every relationship that has ever existed. I am sorry I went on and on here but I wanted to make sure you understand that the common wisdom is that the "knowing" is on a completely subconscious level.
@Sal Paradise “The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn.”
Repetition compulsion is a neurotic defense mechanism that attempts to rewrite childhood history, typically the troubled relationship with the opposite sex parent from one’s family of origin. When a child has an early parental relationship filled with abandonment, neglect, abuse, rejection or intense frustration and disappointment, they are put in a difficult place psychologically. In order to survive, the child has to deny the reality of their situation, including their strong emotions of anger/rage, depression and despair. To overcome these intense emotions and maintain their state of denial, children will instead cling to hope. This hope is a childish one where the young person believes that if only they could be good enough, smart enough, perfect enough, etc., their problem parent will finally love them unconditionally, as they long for and need to be loved. They mistakingly believe that they (the child) are the problem and they hold the power to fix the situation by becoming someone more acceptable to the parent. Even though they try desperately over and over again to fix the relationship, they cannot. They do not understand that the problem lies with the parent, not them. The wounded child continues to cling to the hope throughout childhood and into adulthood in order to avoid falling into despair. Once an adult, the wounded person has, like most adults, an uncanny attraction for someone of the opposite sex who resembles in some fashion (either psychologically or physically) the parent with whom they had difficulties. At this point, the inner child is calling the shots and the person is making the choice for this parent-like mate unconsciously. The decision is made in the subconscious, which is why repetition compulsion is a neurosis
@@aymenblue2841 Yup, that's what I said, though perhaps not as technically correct. It's something I'm now aware of, having lost 40 years to doing just this very thing.
If your child does something that makes you dislike him, and he does it because of the environment, then MAKE sure you build the RIGHT environment around him, whatever that means for each individual.
Seeing JP speak often makes me feel like he got some traumatic issues. Something went wrong in his life and he's still fighting to get over with that. I don't know if he suffered or suffers from acute depression. But truly loved your video. Thank you.
He mentioned on JRE at one point that he has suffered with severe depression most of his life. He was talking about how his carnivore diet apparently cured it, and that a single apple cider or whatever made him severely depressed on the verge of panic attack for an entire month. There is definitely something off...
I get a strange feeling when I listen to him. He has mostly truthful points and is very smart, but I a lot of anger in his tone in between the lines at times as well as sadness. I don't feel empowered to be a better version of myself and make positive changes in my life. There's a lack of softness there which is generally what a vulnerable person needs when seeing a therapist or seeking healing.
Dr. Spok was the popular one for my grandparents generation and reading what he says gives me the shivers. There are a lot of people who believe in breaking a child’s spirit, people who can’t tolerate the messiness of them - when that’s nature. And happy healthy people grow up to express their true nature.
God my mother read Doctor Spock! That probably explains everything. I’ve never read him but even as a kid I knew I didn’t like him. M going to take a look at his work. Thanks for the insight
I've heard Dr. Spock criticized as being too liberal and modern. I know that he still advised a strict feeding schedule for babies, but that's all I've heard about him in the other direction. What is it about his advice that you dislike?
I fully understand and respect why you no longer do therapy. You are one in a million. I can only hope you continue sharing your thoughts online. Your insight is invaluable!
I knew this was going to be good. I discovered your channel last night and am so grateful that I did. I’m a psychology major and you share all the information and discussion that I’ve been yearning for as I’ve gotten increasingly frustrated with the field. You’re incredible.
After watching a lot of JP's lectures and videos I felt there was something missing. Contrary to his work I can relate to Daniel's ideas in so many ways. Thank you for this great video.
I totally agree with you, David. We need to see kids for who they are. Children are basically helpless. They need gentle care and empathy. Understand the child from the child's perspective. They will learn what it is to grow up as a healthy adult this way.
Upon first *seeing* Jordan Peterson, my perception was REPRESSION. I was immediately repelled by him. I can't seem to see the exterior without seeing the interior. He "felt" positively creepy. And, as I listened, he was *negatively* creepy. High intelligence does not confer goodness or wisdom upon a personality. In his case, I believe he hides behind his IQ. 🐯
“There are no beautiful surfaces without terrible depth”- Nietzsche I can also spot a madness in Dr Peterson. Someone who has dealt with some of the suffering that life brings. But I’d rather hear from a man like that. Than one who is naive and oblivious. Because his life was easy. And his character wasn’t built through the ruggedness that this world brings.
I firmly believe that we have to become children again, with the intelligence and cunning of adults, wearing our true emotions and passions with pride, so everyone can see them and participate, being vulnerable but at the same time not defenseless due to outstanding experience. Only then can we create a world which will not traumatize the next generation. Watching your video I realize that JP probably thinks that trauma is a normal state of being. Instead of resolving it, he accepted it and then went as far as possible. And that is just as far as he got being smart as he is.
I really like how you worded that. I believe JP uses his trauma or part of it as an engine of rage and discipline a lot of times on different topics such as this. Man knows what he is talking about, he just doesn’t know how to transform it into healthy actions that will lead to capable humans whose outcomes could differ from what he has experienced.
Bad behavior isn't always about oppressive parents. Children acting out can also be the result of overly passive/protective parents who fail to teach their children how to self-regulate and don't set appropriate boundaries with them. I think what Peterson meant (I've listened to a lecture he gave on the subject) is that children shouldn't be mollycoddled which is what happens with a lot of modern parenting these days.
But that’s still trauma being overly protective or being so anxious and afraid of things that you pass that on to your children. Mollycoddling is still oppressive . A child will absorb and reflect the parents therefore you need to look at your own issues and no assume that your child is just inherently bad.
@@00samira00 I said nothing about a child being inherently bad. What I said is that children can respond negatively to different parenting styles and not just oppressive/overbearing ones. That's you reading something into my comment that's not there (perhaps you should check your issues before advising others to check theirs).
@@00samira00thank you for this insightful comment. Absolutely “mollycoddling” is just another form of unresolved parental issues. The books: Toxic Parents and My Mother myself have good information on the traumatic origins of “overindulgent parents”. Btw, I completely agree that “physical punishments” are not the answer.
Yes, well said. I have listened to, easily 30 of Peterson's talks. He describes what you are saying about his meaning repeatedly in those talks; he's consistent. I've never read his book itself, perhaps he doesn't write this rule well. I also see that he could have unresolved childhood trauma in this realm. I recall, distinctly, that he speaks about the detriment to the child who is so poorly socialized that by the age of 4 or 5 other children don't want to play with them....poor socialization of the toddler leads to a whole other challenge to their further development which needs to occur through peer interaction.
Holy shit this is very accurate, I can't believe I missed this... As a child who refused to believe he was traumatised, but an adult who is now trying to accept the responsibility for this trauma and how it's affecting my behaviour, this struck a very resonant chord.
All therapists are flawed. That doesn't mean that their work doesn't have tremendous benefit. People are responsible for thinking for themselves and not just "trusting" and deferring to "experts". Peterson is a deep-thinker and philosopher. He also seems to very genuinely care about Humanity and individual human beings. He discusses the sacredness of being a psychotherapist in the privilege to hear people's unique life stories. He is flawed. What he has contributed to Humanity is so necessary and valuable at this time. Just the simple act of taking an unwavering courageous stand to the Canadian government and University system, in regard to compelled speech, is a priceless contribution. Very few are willing to sacrifice themselves in the face of true tyranny; he walks his talk.
What Peterson meant is don't let your children's behavior get so bad that you have to shout at them and punish them and get angry with them. In other words, set limits and boundaries. And don't let yourself get so angry that you reject the child even for a moment. I read about a mother via a Facebook, it was a friend of a friend of a friend, and anyway she got so angry at her son for failing an exam or something that she actually drove him in front of an orphanage to threaten him. Imagine that. I mean in this case she needed therapy badly but you get the idea. Basically if your child is so loud that you can't work, just gently signalize it, don't wait until you're livid. That's what the rule is about.
@@vivvpprof I'm wondering if you watched the video because Jordan Peterson doesn't acknowledge that the parent/s and/or other so-called caregivers are usually the cause of the child's difficult behaviour in the first place and even recommends abusing children as a way to "discipline" them. 🙁
1 2 It's in his interview with Rebel Wisdom. By the way I think he's wrong about this. I would like to hear what you think after you listen to Maté's analysis
CrowsTakingOff thanks, I’m not sure about Gabor Mate. A lot of people like him and there have been a few of his videos I’ve liked but I feel that he mischaracterizes Peterson and his views “evil marxists out to get us” that’s not what Jordan thinks it’s much more complicated and thought out than that. There’s also this whole “processed trauma” thing that I just don’t buy. I think Jordan would say he is angry because he should be angry given the circumstances if he wasn’t angry then nothing would change. And trauma is in many people the spur that gets them to change. I feel like Gabor Mate’s view on human nature is a little too optimistic as we can see with a lot of the Marxist types and a lot of them are compassionate people who think that everyone is like them, most children just given to their own devices doing whatever their whims are selfish cruel pieces of shit. We all have to repress aspects of ourselves if were to not be in mayhem. Children aren’t smart enough or skilled enough to channel all these parts of themselves in a way that isn’t detrimental to others and themselves in the long run.
@@BrianScalabrineMVP Compassion is our best survival mechanism. Be compassionate or be extinct. aeon.co/videos/dont-misread-darwin-for-humans-survival-of-the-fittest-means-being-sympathetic?fbclid=IwAR3ddKA7e18GuSSTiND6jq7jTacBf-IJ2F9sKp3KLo68qw9Xq4cVFcKlme4
@@BrianScalabrineMVP You are so wrong and I really hope you are childless! Please don't procreate! Your way of thinking about the way children are is what's wrong with society and why so many children suffer in silence. Grow some empathy!
Thank goodness! A psychotherapist who isn't a grifter for the "free" market. Being able to empathize with people who have suffered trauma is so important. JBP certainly seems to have huge issues of his own which he does not address at all.
JBP talks about 'burning off' the parts of yourself that are not conducive to achieving your better self (my paraphrasing) ....and he says you might have to "burn off" up to 95% of yourself.
@@stoosam3244 he is a classic psychopath. Imo.Depressing how many who dont see right through him. Shows how smart and good he is (was). A has been thank the Lord.
Joe Rogan says of Jordan Peterson: "He's really misunderstood ... misrepresented... people think he's some fascist, some 'nazi'....they try to pretend that he's this rascist, homophobic ... alt-right character. He's not by any stretch of the imagination." He has a lot of enemies on both the far left and right because he dismantles their arguments and the vast majority of them can't cope with it. This is a synopsis of his position, in my opinion: Christianity sought truth. This lead to science. Science disproved God. Hence Nietzche's statement: "God is dead". Nietzche said that, without God, homosapiens would make up their own morals. In making up our morals, we become sanctimonious and that leads us to self-righteous conflict and then ultimately nihilism. He said it would lead to mass murder for 200 years. And so, he predicted the death camps of the C20th, explaining the murderous outcomes of Nazism and Marxism in the name of utopian ideology. And we're not out of the woods yet - look at North Korea. So, how do we solve this? Jung said our morality is ingrained, and all our historical myths and stories (including The Torah/Old Testament) are our stumbling, fumbling attempts to find out, understand and explain our ingrained morality and, ipso facto, who we are. How do we bring that morality to the fore? Life is suffering - this is told in the Torah/Old Testament and is the cornerstone of Buddhism (The 1st Noble Truth). Suffering has meaning - no-one is complacent about their own pain. But by taking on suffering VOLUNTARILY, we change our relationship to it. This is symbolised by bearing the cross. So, the individual is sovereign. And if individuals can bear that responsibility and stay TRUTHFUL, they can give meaning to their life in the face of "the catastrophe of existence" (we are born; we suffer; we die). As individuals we are not insignificant and an individual can change everything. One oft cited example is Alexandre Solzhenitsyn, the Russian author [who said "Everything you add to the truth subtracts from the truth"]. His personal account of Soviet labour camps played a pivotal part in ending the USSR. No-one who wants a peaceful world wants to go back to anything like that. But a lot of current ideology is exactly the same as that which has produced those catastrophic outcomes. So complacency is not an option So, how can individuals learn to bear this responsibility (particular the disenchanted, who feel overwhelmed and chaotic)? The answer is: Through incremental changes in habits, in certain 'crucial' areas, which over time can create a significant improvement for the individual (as demonstrated in the book 'Atomic Habits') That is the basis of "12 Rules for Life".
@@souljacem If you need to refuse to answer yes/no and always accuse your opponent of mischaracterizing your convoluted argument, the flaw is with your argument.
So true! I’m a foster parent and I use to try and “fix” traumatized children. I one day had an epiphany that I had to except them for who they are and allow them to be dysfunctional. The key is to be an example to them of unconditional love snd acceptance!
@Universalis Ted : Well, I did get 9 likes, so no one understands? Ok? I’ve fostered traumatized kids! Kids that have witnessed their Mom being shot by their drug dealing Dad! Kids that have been sexually trafficked by their Mom! These kids will have behavioral issues! When they act out you can’t blame them! It requires allot of grace and understanding! We take foster classes on being trauma informed, these kids have PTSD and their brain chemistry literally changes! If you take traumatized kids in and expect them to behave normally you are sadly mistaken! I learned this from experience! Change takes time! You have to allow them to be themselves! Hope this isn’t too “ambiguous” and can shed some clarity on what it’s like fostering traumatized children!
@@michaelmurray8416 you are right, the first one did not know what you were talking about and the second one was being a jerk, it was very clear what you were attempting to convey.
It's not straight forward one way street for parenting. Can't use the same way we teach normal children and expect them to work with abused children. Well said and appreciated.
How lucky your foster children are. I salute all foster parents. Not nearly enough due to so many children suffering due to parents' drug addiction, eyc
True story: I read Peterson’s book when it first came out, and I thought of you when I got to that chapter. At the beginning of this video, I guessed that this is the chapter you had an issue with. However, I don’t think Peterson would necessarily disagree with what you say about trauma. He was making a different point entirely - namely, he was admonishing a culture that exists in which parents let their children do whatever they want, because they believe rules will destroy the natural goodness of children. Indeed, the fear parents have in creating boundaries for their children might itself be due to trauma.
It's possible to raise children with boundaries without Peterson's approach to disciplining. It seems that Peterson is somewhat a behaviourist in his approach, as I've seen him defend positive and negative reenforcement as the main way of disciplining. That's a very narrow view of human behaviour in my opinion.
@@plowerrr3 There's evidence that both rewards and punishments are not very effective when it comes to disciplining a child. Apparently rewards tend to reduce intrinsic motivation to do a certain task and it seems that you need to increase the rewards over time for it to continue being effective.. Punishments also tend to "work" on the short term but seem to be dependent on an increase in intensity over time. Besides the fact that they're don't help us to clarify what are the roots of behaviour - feelings, needs, etc. - and aren't skill-building activities. They don't teach you how to do something better, they don't increase your awareness of your needs and how to be more effective in meeting those needs,. Fortunately, humans are a bit more sophisticated than this and are very very responsive to role-modeling coming from people they have a strong and good relationship with. Assuring the quality of the relationship, teaching, guiding, role-modeling is incredibly effective. But it's a very difficult thing to do because for that to work we need to embody the values and behaviours we want the child to learn. Tough! But miraculous in my (limited) experience. When the means of guiding are consistent with the ends (which in my case means helping the child learn values like respect, assertiveness, honesty, empathy, compassion, truth, courage, etc.), things tend to work better. That means that the way you teach your child should be respectful, assertive, honest, compassionate, loving, truthful, etc. Is spanking a child a good embodiment of these values?
Gonçalo Moreira I agree that role modeling is extraordinarily powerful. I would be surprised if Jordan Peterson didn’t believe this himself. Indeed, it bears some resemblance to his other rule “change yourself before you change the world.” However, I don’t believe it is always practical. For one, a child will often try to push boundaries to see how much this role model is willing to accept, and how strong he/she is willing to stand for it. It is possible to punish and reward with respect. You’re essentially telling the child that this is not how a person behaves, and when you do this, there are consequences. As Peterson writes, if children don’t learn where the boundaries are now, society is a much harsher disciplinarian later in life. Second, it is wishful thinking to believe we’re all perfect. We are not, and thus it is inevitable that children will learn some undesirable things. I think it’s reasonable to take the position that one should continuously work on themselves while still punishing and rewarding children for behavior that you know is desirable/undesirable.
Regarding your first point, I agree the child tests boundaries and if you want to teach them assertiveness you need to be able to communicate your boundaries as a parent. I don’t think rewards and punishments tend to be the best option though, for the reasons I mentioned above. We don’t need them to assert boundaries, even though we think we do. Regarding your second point, I agree children need very frequent guidance to learn how to live. They learn things that don’t work very well, etc. But again, rewards and punishments tend, in my opinion, to not work very well when you want to teach them behaviours that are desirable or undesirable. Maybe it’s not clear what I mean by role-modelling. It doesn’t me just hoping that the child will copy your behaviour by observing you, even though in a way it does. This kind of approach implies a different mindset and maybe a different view of human nature. For me, it was and continues to be a challenge to the way I used to think, but the more I’m able to integrate it, the better results I get with children. It’s difficult to go into more detail on a youtube but if you want to explore a bit more (and I urge you to do so because it’s extremely interesting, challenging and effective in the long-term), you may want to check authors like Jane Nelson, Laura Markham, Adele Faber, and others (there are videos on youtube). I can give you other recommendations. You may feel, in the beginning, that they are full of s***, but I can assure you they’re not, it works. It’s just very different from the way most of us were raised and because of that it feels really weird, idealistic and not practical, but it works, even though it takes a lot of practice to be able to implement it effectively. Think of it like playing an instrument. You usually need at least 10 years of deliberate practice to achieve I high degree of competency. People who quit after a year of trying usually don't get very far. But it works if you persist, and I know it because I'm a pianist ;)
By the way, another take on the "Spare the rod" comment. The rod spoken about is a shepherds crook and is a rod of correction to help the sheep know which way to go, to guide them safely and with care, not to beat them senseless if they strayed from the flock. A Shepard protected his sheep, even to the point of giving up his own life to save one of them. He never beat the sheep into submission with his rod. “Thy rod and thy staff comfort me”. But many people who believe in hitting and abusing children use “spare the rod, spoil the child” to justify child abuse. Just my two cents worth as a Christian. Its one reason why Jesus was called The Good Shepard.
I think the bible can be interpretted in many ways and as such shouldn't be seen as a dependable source of understanding about human relations and psychology like the way that trauma occurs in us since the mythos and such can be seen in many ways.
NB Thanks for the insightful two cents. I never thought of it that way...Regardless of how the Bible meant it, the child correction that you speak of seems much more beneficial to the child and is the loving way that Jesus treated children.....even telling us to become like them if we want salvation, not for the children to become like us which is the mistake that most parents make. There are many benefits for adults to be more child-like including better imagination that is necessary for successful manifestation of goals. I'm struggling to rekindle my ability to imagine back to the way it was before being exposed to so much tv 'programming'.
I admire JP, but as a recovering BPD, that very chapter really sent my head spinning. I’m so happy to know that I’m not alone in feeling that way. Thank you for this video.
@@onthearth1 recovery in such case means you gotta learn about it and try to control the triggers. People with BPD unlike other personality disorders are aware of what is wrong with them and usually try they best to survive once they acknowledge about it. They need to build up a trained, more mature and logical identity by help of a therapist so that they handle the situations felt difficult to them at some points.
FINALLY i see a video where someone criticizes J B Peterson on the content of what he actually says and writes. Usually they just use arguments like "he uses overly complicated language to explain a simple thing in one hour" or "he's like literally Hitler". That rule about the children is actually the major problem I have with Peterson, it has always seemed authoritarian for a man who so fervently disavows authoritarianism.
This is all about philosophy, but he doesn't mention that at all. His entire argument is based on his belief that humans are born good, which is an old and thoroughly debunked view on human nature, and clearly way out of his area of expertise. As JBP would say you can't even begin to citicize him for his ideas because they are actually Jungian ideas. To be fair its just a critique, he obiously isn't omniscient, but for a guy so interested in evidence he talks a lot without any of it.
Well I personally put it in the context of the entire book which also has the rule about not bothering kids when they're skateboarding, and taking the two together I think strikes an appropriate balance.
Well, he definitely has a huge Christian bias. Bible says, "respect your parents and elders" or something to that affect. I vehemently disagree with it. I think you should "try" to be nice, but if someone's an idiot or douchebag, you have no obligation to respect them, internally, in your mind. Here's another bible quote: The truth will set you free. Be honest with yourself, even at the expense of your "respect" for people that don't fucking deserve it!!!
When I was 11 my dad, in a fit of rage after stepping on one of my toys, threw me face first into a closet where my toybox was kept. He had built it himself and it was pretty simple and had these sharp corners. I grazed it face first and luckily it just split my lip, but if I'd hit wrong it could have disfigured me or, if I'd been really unlucky, killed. Afterwards I threatened to call child protective services on him and dad laughed in my face, asking if I thought I'd be better off as an orphan cared for by the state. He was right and I knew it, I was better off with him, financially stable and merely willing to risk killing me when I acted out. I didn't call. Years later when dealing with a mental health crisis my fad laughed at me for seeking professional help, accusing me of trying to work the system like "you always do." His example was that time I threatened to call cps on him. In his mind as an adult I'd recognize how foolish I was as a kid. When I reminded him about throwing me in the closet he shut up and has never brought that concept or incident up since. It's as close to an apology as I'm likely to get. For years I think I'd internalized the belief that I had been a bad kid, that I was a scam artist always out to work the system in my favor, despite the fact that I do not live my life that way and in fact usually reject even the assistance I'm owed by whatever systems I interact with. This encounter with dad opened my eyes slightly, still a lot of work to do, I still internally believe I am the problem, most of the time.
Yeah, I am a Gabor Mate girl, however, he thinks all parents are doing the best they can and they all love their children. I can say that part of his take, I absolutely do not agree with.
I don't think you understood what he meant. He says all parents are doing the best they can with the resources they have. It doesn't mean they are not abusive, traumatising, damaging to children. It just means they are themselves so traumatised they have no other resources. It doesn't excuse them, and in fact part of the healing is realising how much damaged they have done in your life and accepting that they didn't have your best interests at heart. However this is, unfortunately, the best they could do because they didn't do the healing for themselves and passed on the trauma to the next generation. You don't need to forgive them to heal and move on. No one would advocate that. However the fact is they couldn't do any better for you because they were no able to behave in a different way, they didn't know how. So in that respect they did the best they could, it just was not enough by any standards.
I just realized that not letting your children do anything that makes you dislike them is one way parents can pass on their dysfunction, their mental illnesses, to their children. Peterson has tremendous repressed rage, and he often, without realizing it, talks about that rage. Not tolerating children is one way to express such rage. Complaining that it's not acceptable to hit women, or at least communicate the possibility of hitting a woman, is another expression of repressed rage.
hitting women is cowardise at its highest form, its lashing anger without control onto another person , which is a women ....lets say its easier to hit a women than a men , ain't it ;) Cowards and bullies do that because they get away without opposition , but hitting another that defends himself with same strenght has you , demands courage which men that hit women dont have! I will assume you hit women for saying that . Get help if you do !
@@penyarol83 that's right. In 2017 I visited Timor Leste for the first time. The warmth that I felt was something that I had never felt in my life. In 2021 I packed my bags and decided to spend some time there. And here I am almost 2 years later and it has stabilized me and gave me a lot of time to reflect and receive insights without being disturbed by the mental activity from thousands of western crazies. In the COVID era Oxford UK really had turned into an open air mental asylum. It's not the people that are crazy who are the problem, it's the people that don't know they are crazy, that are the problem.
My two year old can def b a bratty jerk 😣😣 he screams, kicks, threws things at me, etc.. But he is also very cuddly, lovey, silly and sweet☺☺ I wouldn't trade him for anything!!!💚💚💚💚 People also tend to forget; a two year old's brain is still developing.. Of course they are going to b violent and mean at times because they have yet to learn how to process, regulate and understand feelings!!🤦🤦😂😂😂😂
Actually that was a phrase that struck me too, but very differently. My mother, being raised in a strict uncompromising home, went to the opposite extreme with us children. She absolutely refused to set boundaries or enforce any sort of structure . Result: chaos. She developed a deep , hidden dislike for her own children who she now viewed as ungrateful brats. Knowing your own mother dislikes you is devastating. I so wish we had learned structure and boundaries along WITH proper ways to express our feelings- and be heard and understood. Maybe everyone could have grown and learned then.
Peterson describes children as "little balls of potential", which is why he seems them as good and bad, and not just fundamentally one or the other. He also doesn't see misbehavior as fundamentally bad *per se*, as it can be a child's natural demeanor to want to push boundaries with people to find out where exactly they are, and specifically with young boys, some levels of aggression and competition are a primary form of playing and forming bonds with one another. While you may be correct in that much of a baby's misbehavior can be mirroring traumatized parents or responding to said parents, I think it's extraordinarily disingenuous to presume that babies are simply born fundamentally good and it's the trauma of their reality that introduces evil into their lives. As far as I can tell, you have no more proof for that claim than Peterson does for his. And really, there are plenty of scenarios that I think points to Peterson being more correct. If a small child innocently uses permanent markers to make a mural on your hallway's walls (something I personally did as a child), you wouldn't explain that away as a trauma response, despite it being mildly destructive behavior in some way (and certainly a hassle for the parents), as it's clearly an innocent act of spontaneous, childish creativity and passion. I think you and Peterson are kind of talking over each other a bit here, and I think he'd actually agree with a lot of what you're saying. His point is, don't let yourself come to hate your child enough to torment/abuse them, but his sticking point is enforcing boundaries with the children rather than practicing patience and tolerance with children (ie. in some way, putting the responsibility on the child rather than the parent, which I don't fully agree with). But I think he does that because, at the end of the day, he is a conservative, and he does believe that it's a parent's job to make sure that their child doesn't just grow up loved and cared for, but also socialized and *socially desirable*. Peterson could've coined Rule #5 as, "don't let your kids do anything that will make society ostracize them", and it would make about as much sense. And you guys will just always fundamentally disagree on that point, I think. Clearly your life experiences have led you to finding success and (I hope) happiness in finding yourself and rejecting the social constraints that were placed upon you when you were younger. Peterson's story is essentially the exact opposite. Whereas you're a voice for the outcasts, the traumatized, Peterson is a voice for but more specifically young men who increasingly don't have a father figure in their lives, and who have no idea what it even means to be a man, or what their place in the world is.
My joke was just that to have the perspective that he is quick to anger, you must not be very quick to anger. Compared to myself, I'd say Peterson is a chill dude
I absolutely agree. I followed Jordan Peterson's material for a while and even went to one of his talks on his book tour. I think he has a lot of great advice for young people when it comes to building the lives they desire but he is weaker when it comes to addressing emotional issues. I still enjoy his talks and videos but he's not the first person I would turn to when it comes to resolving emotional issues. I much prefer your approach when it comes to dealing with trauma and emotional growth.
@@colto2312 the speaker in the video suggested a third way. Healing the actual trauma of the parents so that the need for disicplinary correction no longer occurs. He already omitted the fact that first of all before anything else Jordan Peterson emphasizes that you have to be critical on yourself first before extending it to others. Logically the solution he suggests is already being covered by the other rules.
Weaker on emotional issues? Here is an analogy, which do you prefer as an individual. Someone who is self healing and self regulating, is capable of rolling with the punches, resilient enough to actually endure stress and mindful enough to accept the actual ugly reality we live in making best with whatever cards He/She is dealt with, or someone who whenever He/She encounters hardships immediatly searches for outside help most commonly to pharma, therapy or other substances?
I remember everything from my childhood, and I'm 38 now. I knew there was a problem with them from the age of 4. I remember screaming at my dad that I hated him when I was 4. I mean, what can you do if the child's behaviour is right and the parent's behaviour is wrong. I went to bed starving all throughout childhood, and when I finally moved out permanently around 26, I was a bloody mess of a person, even though I had a physics degree, I had barely eaten anything, I was just a shell of a human being, just a shell. I might be 38 but it feels like 12. I still haven't spoken to anybody really and I highly doubt I'll meet someone who will speak to me. There are 9 year olds who have more social experiences than me. It's actually quite frightening to think about, but it's true. I'm JP's worst nightmare, because I'm a walking contradiction to the major things that he believes about the world.
annihilationHaven: 4 years after your post: That was a well-put comment anyway, have you met anyone to talk with yet? How did you manage the interaction with your Physics peers? Or was it easier because oif the common topic of interest? If you have any alcohol problem, drinking more than you want to, or to relax, or to dare to be social etc, I recommend you try AA. I am mainly in OA, who use the same Big Book. Otherwise a daughter program of ACA has helped many self-heal. Adult children of Alcoholics and Other Dysfunctional families.
@@Medietos I realize everything had to happen this way coming from a horrible home. But the bigger problem was it was horrible in a way that surpasses the torture that other people might experience. Nevertheless I did manage to have a pseudo-relationship with a girl, dated a few dozen times, but she's not interested in talking to me - this has happened dozens of times before, but it usually ends after 1-6 dates and in one case it ended after 9 years with the girl who didn't want to talk to me finally swearing at me and de-friending me for good. So yeah, I know I repel men, but I really know I repel women too. They might be initially interested, but that's all. Same thing goes for employers, I did 40+ interviews, but the employers only wanted to meet me, they didn't want to talk about hiring me. So I gave up on a career, maybe too quickly. Also spent most of the last 11 years in a country where nobody speaks English, and it turned into a war zone, and my building was hit by an explosive and that wasn't even the first time that happened. But no, alcohol is kind of a sick joke, I would never drink. Maybe that gives you a small picture of what's going on. It would take 30 years to explain, there is a LOT more, all in the same vein. Of course my learning curve on power has gone up exponentially in the last 4 years as I've spent enormous amounts of time studying gaslighting and why it is so effective against most people and why nobody wants to do anything about it. At least I can say I took my employer to court once over a constructive dismissal case. The look on the judge's face told me I was the first person to bring all of the dark garbage to court, can you imagine? Nobody complained about the garbage for decades in an industry that employs over 6000 people? That case was after my 3rd year, after a 50% pay cut. But like I said, there's more, a LOT more.
That's a good starting point. The masses of desperate fatherless men who look up to JP for fatherly guidance should take heed (not to make little of fatherlessness, I myself did not have the best father figure).
The guy can even have some great things to say and I think he does, but any sensible person with the status Peterson has themself would want people to question what they say. There are even times where Peterson's way of communicating, not the content of his speech, gets in the way of what he's trying to achieve. The man actively suggested people at least consider trying psych meds and claimed you could go on them and just go right back off them if there's an issue and you'll be fine; then look what happened.
@@ataj585 The man himself is driven to tears over this. Thousands of people looking to you for more help than you're able to give them, this is a difficult position for a person to be in when you actually have it all together.
Yes, sometimes people concentrate sooooo much on external issues so that they do not have to deal with personal reflection. I agree with what you said. There is no substitute for simple honesty, it makes life worth living. Thumbs up for you Mr Mackler.
As I understand JP's rule 5, the idea is to help your kids successfully socialize, to help them progress from the animals we all are when born, to civilized human beings. Then you, and other adults, will love being with and helping them. Other kids will love to play with them. Big benefits. My credentials: former licensed hairstylist in Indiana.
My parents sucked. they divorced when I was 7. I have a brother who is 3 years younger than me. when we were little, he'd spit on me, or claw me with his nails or hit me or whatever. My mom took the "survival of the fittest" approach. sometimes we'd fight right in front of her, and she'd do nothing. she figured the stronger one would win, and the situation would sort itself out. she didn't care who won. My dad, on the other hand, would yell at BOTH of us, regardless of who was the troublemaker. I guess he just expected me to let my brother victimize me. Once, when I was 13, I hit my brother in the nose and bloodied his nose. He said something that pissed me off, i can't remember what now (I'm 42). I'm happy I did that, it's not like either of my parents were gonna defend me.
My younger niece is 2.5. She's trying to do this to her older sister. Me and her grandmother always say to her to respond back to her sister or whomever else tries to attack her. But never hit first.
As a parent I've been around a lot of 2 year olds. When they bite, they are not usually showing us what's been done to them. That would mean that every 2 year old I've ever seen bite & hit -- and it's common behavior -- have been bitten & hit. Not the case. I don't think my friends & family who have occasionally violent 2 year olds are secret cannibals and child beaters. I know I'm not one. My kids did lots of violent stuff until, over time, we civilized them. Obviously a kid exposed to violence at age 2 could mimic it. What's important when looking at a 2 year isn't what they've been taught, it's what they haven't been taught. The folks who think it's all nurture and not nature tend to romanticize babies & youth -- they're so perfectly huggable! -- such that they refuse to believe they could do wrong. But, based on my observation, they do plenty of wrong naturally. They just don't know yet that it's wrong yet. Enter the parents (hopefully good ones).
It’s not necessarily that they’ve been being literally bitten and hit, but perhaps they’ve been shown aggression by parents or older siblings, or their emotional (or physical) needs have been ignored or rebuffed. They could be acting out the aggression they’ve already been shown - just in a way that’s accessible to them.
Here is advice from Jordan Peterson about raising children (the RUclips link to this lecture at the correct timecode is below): "And now and then you know you read in the newspaper about someone who’s, you know, being pushed a little bit too far on some day that they’re unemployed and hungover and you know their relationship is just broken up and they do something absolutely brutal to their child and you think well “how could anyone do that” it’s like there’s a lot of history of terrible interactions between the mother and the child or the father and the child before something like that happens. So you know if you want to protect your child against the beast that’s inside you you might want to teach them to treat you with some respect so that you’re much more likely to be a civilized human being around them." As parents we should teach children to walk on eggshells around us, or we might explode and release the beast inside of us? When someone is "brutal" to their child, the best way to protect the child is to make it the child's responsibility to treat the parent with respect? It's actually teaching people to traumatise their children. He is definitely not teaching people to heal their own childhood trauma. The fact that Jordan Peterson is taken so seriously by so many people really scares me. (And if people want more context, well the entire lecture is in the same link and is nearly 2 hours long.) ruclips.net/video/4tQOlQRp3gQ/видео.htmlh14m54s
Pordan Jeterson is bat guano. Says something about how sick a society is to elevate him for guidance/insight. He is the psychologist of neoliberlaism. Some health carers are acting out their own power trips and pharmacological, financial exploitation.
Thank you for having a genuine critique of JP that isn't a big dump on him and his entire existence. Too many people, even in this comment section, try to bury him in their own unresolved self-hate and mistrust. It's one thing to disagree with someone, but it's another to write paragraphs and make videos trying to discredit everything about him. I read this book when it came out and I found there was a lot of info that helped me and over time I've found my own critiques about him, and your video pointed out some important flaws that I wouldn't consider. Love your channel
I don’t have self hate or mistrust in myself, yet I recognize Jordan Peterson went from making motivational content to preaching purity culture, hating on single and childless women, and transgender people. You can see why people would be angry when someone claims they still preach about inspirational topics yet they hate on people.
Excellent thoughts again! I've been always deeply convinced that a child's behavior is the direct consquence of what they experience. A child is only capable of learning about themselves and the world through the adults' (parents') filter and mirroring (or lack of).
@@nikolas4347 I agree that genetics play an important role. However, many seemingly healthy families, with compassionate and 'nice' parents have toxic dynamics that are only known to or felt by the members. The child learns in sneaky ways that something is wrong about them (even more if there is some genetic issue envolved!) and will act out.
Well said @I’m watching. Children need wholesome family environment with healthy adults ( parents) until they develop a sense of right and wrong. Internalized traumas are always a presence in their family environment, but the challenge is we as human beings are a collection of our experiences and how does one break oneself apart from the experience - when they are not even aware of the damage it might have caused.
"The children's bad behavior is actually a reaction to a parental behavior." This is exactly what the rule is speaking too. Jordan Peterson's entire mantra is to take personal responsibility and not to cast your issues onto others(including children) to deal with. See: "Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world." Here's what I see you doing, which is perfectly good. I see you siding on the side of compassion, which is pretty likely seeing as you are trained as a therapist. What do you do after the compassion though? You lead people toward action, right? You lead them to solutions, a way to move forward. Coming from my own personal experience, I used to enjoy when people were compassionate to my woes, it felt good to be understood. But if that's all I ever got, I'd be an empathy seeking vampire. "When children are acting out who are violent and mean[cic] they are expressing things about their homelife." I don't think JP would disagreee with you here, and this is exactly his point: if you are creating a bad influence, you are allowing your children(you are responsible), to do things that now(and later down the road) will make you dislike them(while still loving them). I'd recommend you check out some videos of him explaining in person what he was talking about, as he can be a pretty harsh speaker in books to make his points be hard hitting (ie "Advice is what someone gives when they want you to shut up and go away... (he then goes into a comparison of advice and psychotherapy)).
Maybe yes, maybe not. I wish JP would respond directly. I've noticed that JP is a conformist in some big ways; some things you have heard can be further analyzed and nonconformist views should then prevail.
When I first watched some of Peterson's lectures I thought "This stuff is cool and interesting", but the more I watched the more they seemed trite when they weren't just plain wrong.
Start from the point that Peterson is all about monetizing his "brand." Then, observe how he goes off on tangents that are hardly relevant to the subject at hand and struggle like hell to tie up the ends and make it all coherent. Observe his dedicated followers who will hang on his every word and give meaning to where there is little. Then read the 48 Laws Of Power for insights into what he does, and watch the great movie from 1979, "Being There", and you'll begin to get some clarity about Peterson.
Same happened to me, I started to feel something was wrong with him, like he is fighting to suppress something that is not able to face, at the same time he needs to construct a false image to support it. How many psicologyst are really screw up!!!!
I read alot of Alice Miller and I totally agree with you. I don't understand why others don't. It seems so obvious to me and it baffles me that there are so few out there who know about this. Even most therapist just don't get it, gaslight and harm you (the inner child) even more.
@Bonny D. Unfortunately she was not very self reflective. I still love her work. She did not resolve the issue of healing (like John Bradshaw) and transforming pain into power. Her strenght lied in articulating precisely the charges, analysing and formulating the accusation which is the first step to recocery. Unfortunately, her insight stopped after that.
A cursory google shows that she supported a therapist called Stettbacher who was doing primal therapy, and molested his patients. But when she found out, she denounced him and distanced herself from primal therapy. Is that what you mean?
My 2 year old tried using violence, hitting and biting, and there was never any violence to her or around her. And I was with her 24/7 so I'm sure of that. She learned that being violent gets her a time-out and she stopped quickly. But I could definitely see a lack of punishment leading to a child using violence more and more, especially if it gets them what they want.
It turns out that there are a lot of unrelated reasons for children exhibit bad behaviour, and each kind calls for a different response. As usual, everyone is fighting over which oversimplification is correct.
You listen to Dan instead? His entire argument was just him saying he believes one branch of philosophy, but he doesn't seem to know it. It's all based on the idea that kids are good and parents corrupt them, which is about as ignorant a philosophical statement as you can make today. It literally means nothing but that there is some point in a humans life where they are some god like being of love and goodness. Why do monkey children act out when their parents dont show them how to? What evidence (since he seems to like evidence) shows that human infants are good and they only act bad out of external influence? Not only is there no evidence, there is no way to prove it.
Thank you so much for your videos. You are a breath of fresh air . Thank you for mentioning empathy. We live in a world full of “ experts”, and yet look at the state of the world...
Exactly, these so-called experts have no place telling us what's healthy and what isn't. The world would be better if they stepped down and took a good, hard look at their own childhoods.
Rule #5 is very troubling indeed. I'm sure Jordan Peterson recognizes that many parents inherently dislike their children because they see themselves in them, and they don't like it. Many people hate themselves and don't even realize it.
What Peterson meant in Rule Number 5 is communicate your boundaries to your children. Don't let their behavior get so bad that you have to shout at them and punish them and get angry with them.
When I came across Jordan Peterson on RUclips, I realized some of the things he preached made perfect sense but some of the things were quite disturbing. The problem of having such a teacher is that he'll lead you astray and you'll not even know it.
I am a JP fan. I am by no means the best example. The reason I think he is legitimate is because he encourages people to listen. He encourages listening to your opponent’s argument. That to me shows his sincerety.
30 years ago I brought up my babies in the attachment style. They were wonderful toddlers. One tantrum each. That’s all. My son didn’t want leave the playground, and my daughter through the famous tantrum at the supermarket. They new mommy was there for them, but wouldn’t fall for the manipulation😂 They are wonderful loving independent adults. And my daughter just had a baby. She’s doing the same as I did.
Besides trauma (which is extremely extremely important) -but also the negative energy that children get from their parents, their indulgence, spoiling, praising, exalting their kids, making them feel entitled. I believe this is also a form of abuse. They are exalting but not loving. I am a teacher and sports coach, studied psychology and spirituality for over 40 years and I can tell you that Daniel is spot on about the unresolved traumas of parents and the damage that it causes children, I was a victim myself. I was physically and emotionally abused till age 15 (is when I was strong enough to fight back) by my older brother. My Dad was working a lot had anger issues of his own and my Mom who was home most of the time -didn't do anything to stop it and In fact she often got pissed and yelled at at me for over reacting and only on occasion yelled at both of us. My mom would say-" he's older than you- you have to listen to him '' I remeber saying to her ''can't you see what he's doing to me! -you mean to tell me you cant see that he is hitting me for no reason ! ---and you know what?--- she couldn't ! (Shocker right !) I teach HS Health and this is some of the issues I talk about in class. They don't need to know about Freud and some cockamamie psychological theories that the HS Psychology classes teach-they need to know about what is happening to them now and what it means to love in a real way in a spiritual way ---thats all.
I'm getting that your mother was deprived of protection and care as a child. To relieve her stress she accumulated decisions to suppress her actual experience. The result is that she doesn't see or experience what-is-happening rather she experiences the concepts/illusions she created. The concepts/illusions are what she needed to see and believe to feel safe and secure in social conditions that were not providing safety and security.
Dude you are insanely intelligent thank you so much for making this critique! It was articulated extremely well ; it didn’t come off as trying to attack Jordan but instead, you brought up questionable things he said. I’ve found Jordan to have a cult following where there’s a confirmation bias in anything that he says. Good on you for being able to critically think about his views!
Daniel makes some absurd claims of what he thinks JBP thinks. Apparently JBP thinks children/people are 100% result of biology and no amount of nurture affects the behaviour. Characterises JBP as someone who enjoys meting out pain to his own children. Daniel also thinks that if a child has negative emotion manifest as a tantrum it's probably the parents' abuse of their authority, often unconsciously driven by past parental abuse.
He doesn't say that at all. What he says is that sometimes it's the case that a negative emotion manifest is due to some kind of trauma which (in my opinion) is more common than we like to think about and cannot be dealt with by a blanket 'rule' of how parents should deal with children. This is misguided and therefore sometimes potentially very harmful and wrong. It does seem that JP, although right in some areas, sets himself up as an authority on almost every aspect of human life and society. Anyone who writes a book such as this will inevitably find many, many others who know much more on numerous topics and have more knowledgeable and valid opinions. I've found anyone who claims to know so much about so many different fields of expertise is by definition wrong on many of them. University professors are usually experts in one, or maximum two areas.
I think this dude should forget about Peterson's book and watch a few of his videos on youtube. Peterson gave me something to think about a little while back which Daniel might wish to note. Peterson stated that by the age of four years old, if that child needs therapy after that...IT'S TOO LATE. I watched a child go through this...Peterson was accurate. That child is walking into playgrounds and punching girls already....and nobody can stop him. I worked in Youth Club work and banned a kid once for bringing a barrel of cider into the club. He was being given it by his Grandfather(who ran a bar)Two weeks later the kid was pissed up and got run over on his push-bike..one year later he robbed an elderly woman and stabbed her.
@@Rellikan Well have you ever listened to JBP answer a question? Seldom is the case when he doesn't immediately have the 'correct answer', regardless of the topic. He's great, of course, but... just sayin'
Really enjoyed listening to this analysis. I'm wondering if the myriad of chronic illness's of Jordan Peterson's daughter are related to nature or nurture? The book, "The body keeps the score" makes me question my own chronic illness.
Alice Miller's books opened my eyes to this connection. I've realised that whenever I leave home, town and especially this country (Poland) I'm getting MUCH better health wise. I can eat things I normally cannot even touch, I start putting on healthy weight (I'm very skinny) and I don't vomit and don't get so many migraines as I get at home.
Please look into something called tms if you are interested in this connection.. personally it helped me enormously and healed me with a crazy nerve pain.. I would start with googling tms wiki , curable app, dr howard schubiner and his book online, sirpa in the uk and many other books and resources.. theres also a documentary "this might hurt"
Yep, and Jordan’s autoimmune illness as well, definitely nurture. Gabor Maté has a short series of tweets about this that I recommend checking out. He talks about how Petersons “choked rage” belies an emotional repression owing to his own early trauma, which is what has caused his in his words “rather intractable” autoimmune illness. Definitely check out Gabor Mates book When the Body Says No: Exploring the Stress-Disease Connection, if you haven’t already.
"Met" JP through the Jungian series of lectures he posted on RUclips. The series I was fascinated by was the one wherein he pretty much interpreted the bible in Jungian terms -- something I'd been longing to see for decades. Loved it. Despite JP's personality (sometimes derisive and angry) I never felt like I was required to agree with everything he thought or said. I watched a few interviews with feminists after he got in trouble with them and it seemed obvious to me that he was talking Jungian while they were talking something else and misunderstandings obviously resulted. That sais, he clearly doesn't "get" how angry women are about 6,000 years of oppression. Then, he had his serious benzo crash that really ruined his life. I was surprised that he didn't know how dangerous these chemicals were and how many people had been crippled by them. But, apparently he was just trusting the docs that prescribed them. That was disappointing. Now, he seems to have gone off the tracks in the big way -- just a terrible train wreck. It's sad.
Thank you so much for pointing out the horrendous continuation of "poisonous pedagogy" (Alice Miller) in this chapter by Jordan Peterson. I knew of him and watched him a little bit, had mixed feelings because of a certain slickness and intellectual arrogance, did not follow up further. And if I had stumbled upon this chapter, I would have just been as horrified. So often when we look under the surface of seemingly intelligent minds we find exactly this: no empathy, no serious confrontation with your own childhood experiences, let alone therapy to deal with those and their after-effects. And this is a psychologist? I know you consider Alice Miller one of the best, and so do I (in spite of the revelations thanks to her son's report), all throughout her life she tirelessly wrote and lectured as an advocat for children. She is looked upon as "outdated" by many (as I found out to my dismay), but listening to this she is still the pioneer she always was. Poisonous pedagogy is coming back in many ways, books, films, the media, as if we are heading back into the dark ages. Thanks for being so passionate about this topic, for the sake of the children, and all of us, actually.
Alice Miller is a godd*mn genius. No one criticizing her can hold a candle to her. I appreciate Daniel but wish he wouldn’t try to “critique” her, as the world needs to hear and understand her genius first, if we are to have any hope of saving ourselves. I appreciate Daniel, but he is no Alice Miller.
I loooooove this video! I came upon Jordan's videos last year and some were really interesting and useful but some of his ideas always rubbed me the wrong way. Anyways, the hierarchy of the family and how it is well setup for parents passing down traumas to their children reminded me of the army. Have you ever thought about the pathology of army hierarchy and its culture of physical and psychological abuse towards lower ranks from upper ranks? Would love to heard you talk about this.
Hey, I know nothing about the army but I'm very interested to hear about the dynamic you speak of. I see your comment is from 3 years ago, so probably unlikely haha.
@@paingoingcrazy6997 Well, at least here in brazil it is very common knowledge about the bullying new recruits suffer and is accepted as "just the way things are" (much like how parents have a pass to mistreat their kids), some kind of macho culture branching in which you are supposed to take abuse without complaining or you are not man enough. This is a system that rewards oppression since the recruits consolation is that next year they will be the ones bullying the new recruits, and so on. Every higher raking officer is expected to have his whims attended by the recruits, like having their boots shined and bed made by someone. Harsh "disciplining" punishing the whole squad with overwork because someone didn't do their bed properly, petty shit like that.
@@keixoun I see.. Maybe the abuse makes the army men angrier and ready to unleash their anger on their enemies,.. Makes me wonder how many families force their kids to do those things. Make the younger sibling clean after the older sibling.. And the younger gets consolation from knowing he can one day pass down the abuse to some other innocent kid at school. Awful.
I spent 18 months in the army because it was obligatory to the young men at that time in my country. The army is one of the most pathological institutions ever created to exploit, humiliate and subdue the young men to shouting idiots calling themselves officers. There is no place for such institution in a civilized society. Sadly civilization hasn't happened yet to humanity; we are still living in dark ages.
I think the best defense to rule #5 is that his point was to not let yourself have any legitimate excuse to hate your kids, as it can be a problem if one is authentic here (and a problem if one isn't authentic of course). I will say I think the analysis done here is amazing, superior, and more in-depth. There are bad ways of enacting rule #5, is one thing I get from this video.
Bandura’s bobo doll experiment... when children see aggression they will tend to repeat behavior. This can be by strangers, families, friends, neighbors, tv, etc. Thanks for sharing your perspective, this is a topic people tend to be unwilling to discuss.
Honestly, thank you for the clear Analysis. I've been watching a lot of his stuff because I couldn't put my finger on what bothers me about him. He clearly is intelligent and I'm sure he means well and wants to help people, but some statements and positions leave a weird feeling
I would argue that he probably doesn't mean well, and he's trying to shape the world around him into the unhealthy system which he himself grew up in. It looks like he means well because our society already believes what he says about children to be true.
@@julieanne190 i would say he 100% means well. He has deep moral convictions and wants to see the world become a better place. Regardless of any of his opinions and arguments, the man has a good soul, I can promise you that.
@@jamesrutterford576 You can promise that, but it doesn't mean anything beyond your own trust in him. I have watched hours and hours of video with Jordan Peterson in different venues - classroom lectures, lectures to large audiences, debates, interviews, discussion panels, etc. You believe that he means well and has a good soul. You can't prove it. I can't prove he doesn't, but there are red flags all over the place in his content, his facial expressions, his tone, his body language, and more. I believe there is a deep foundation in him of anger and contempt. I also believe there is heavy manipulation. Don't forget that he is a behavioral psychologist and his training and experience would give him expertise in just how to do that if he wanted to do it. That stands in contrast to the many things he think he is qualified to speak on that he is not qualified to speak on. People should be suspicious just how often he gets caught on video crying and trembling. That's not normal. I'm not saying it's bad to be moved or to cry, but if you watch enough it becomes suspicious how much it happens on video and how deeply it moves people to believe he is a deep soul, who suffers pain to help people, who is just such a wonderful man. I believe he is mentally unstable and projects a lot of what is going on inside him onto his "enemies." Also keep in mind that this is a very lucrative schtick he has going. He isn't doing this for free.
@@julieanne190 I just wanted to say that I agree with you about JP, I also believe he is an emotionally unstable person. I would say that if he lacks empathy and experiences chronic depression he is likely to have a narcissistic personality disorder. Which in turn means that he might have a hidden agenda of control over people and his own profit. He might have some goodness left in him but his ego has clearly taken over his life and he can definitely damage lives of other people along the way.
I can tell you easily why Peterson said the thing about parents regulating their kids behavior. He though about everything you said, mostly about the history of human childhood and he is presenting an antidote to the false promise of optimism, where you think that having an opportunity to exempt your child from parent-induced trauma is equal to a better outcome. You would have to think about how that's achieved. Do you think there's anyone in this world better suited to raise a child besides the average well-meaning biological parent? Have you looked into how child abuse skyrockets when the caregivers are not the progenitors? Also, have you no appreciation for the stability and steady advancement the nuclear family has provided through history? Obviously every child will be abused from every possible angle, that's the beauty in Peterson's perspective, he always acknowledges the demons. That's what makes him so effective. There is nothing worse than a psychotherapist that uses idealism to create expectations in their patients.
Jordan Peterson really really gives me the creeps. He reminds me of my father, a charismatic academic, falsely modest, a communal narcissist, and an abusive parent.
This guy is the most underrated Genius. Jordan Peterson's work has helped me a lot (*in general*) in the past 6 years, but since I refuse to let my brain go sideways, and having been in so described around 14:50, I am so glad to hear literally all the questioning I had upfront from someone else... That's very interesting. ID ABSOLUTELY LOVE to listen to both them on a podcast, but it should have at least 3h!!!! ❤ In a polarised world we live in, this is virtue.
just to make a small point. in your video on why you stopped being a therapist you mentioned you never worked with children as you don't think children should be in therapy but in this video you mention you have 'worked a lot with children in many contexts' (at the 2 minute stage of this video).
I'm not criticizing your whole video. Just mulling over and thinking about what you say but just wanted to make this point.
Hi Rebecca -- thanks for your comment. It's may seem like a small point, as you say, but it's an important one. sorry for the confusion. I didn't work with children as a therapist, but I did work with children a lot in other contexts (as a musician, teacher, camp counselor, etc.). Hope that clarifies it a bit. all the best, Daniel. P.S. I've been asked this several times and have replied several times, and I want to pin this comment to the top comments so that others who are wondering the same thing can see your comment and my reply...but I can't seem to pin it to the top. Do you have any idea how to do this?
I just figured out how to pin a comment, so pinned this one!! Daniel
@@dmackler58 thank you for the reply. Really glad you clarified. Sorry if you've been asked before. I'm just reading a book about psychiatry by James Davies called cracked and it explores similar things that you have mentioned so interesting watching your videos which I found by accident. Thanks.
@@rebeccamehrshahi5369 Cool Rebecca. I just looked up the book "Cracked" and from I gather it looks accurate! Daniel
@robert jenkins Did you even read the book, or chapter 5? or did you infer the chapter based on its title?
Parents like to take credit for their children’s accomplishments but pass blame for their failures. Thank you Daniel.
100%
Children like to blame parents for their own failures, and take credit for their accomplishments as if the parents played no role in facilitating them. It works *both* ways. Yet, people, often who are NOT parents, would rather scapegoat the parents for anything that goes wrong in someone's life. Funny how anyone, who has ever lived, has the convenience of having a parent to blame. Yet, society deems abortion as acceptable. Society is SICK BEYOND REDEMPTION.
@@kristenmarie9248 Right, that kind of reasoning can go both ways and often does.
Know why? Because children learn to mirror other people's behaviours within the environment of their upbringing, particularly their parents' concious AND UNconcious behaviour (as was described in this very video).
Who has the power to set a good example in that scenario? Who has the responsibility to care for the other, provide conditions for growth and teach values for future human interactions? Who has the legal and economical power to set standards and to change them within the family structure? The child?
You also said that eveyone who ever existed "conveniently" has patents to blame for all their misfortunes.
I don't know what kind of point you are trying to make here honestly, because it does really mean that every abusive person that ever existed had parents who had the opportunity and/or responsibility to care for them and be great rolemodels for their offspring, but unfortunately failed at some point due to various reasons, some of them very direct and obvious, some of them indirect. As was mentioned in the video, neglect is also a form of abuse.
And how does abortion fit the picture you are trying to paint here? What does it have to do with your other point?
If anything, you just made the case for abortion, because that's a procedure for people, who are certain, that they don't want to or are unable to care for a child at that particular moment in their life, so why shame them in to having children and shame them even more for not caring about their children properly, when that was the very reason they were seeking abortion in the first place?
@@kristenmarie9248 "Yet, people, often who are NOT parents, would rather scapegoat the parents for anything that goes wrong in someone's life." So untrue. A completely emotional non-objective statement. What are you afraid of? Being judged? We all make mistakes, as a parent you're going to make them (which is not the same as abuse) and we usually make them because our parents made them before us and they because of their parents and so on. It's an unpleasant truth but you can't change truth just because you don't like it. And yes as a collective we are sick and have problems, shedding light on these problems and trying to fix them is part of the solution. Or do you know a better way?
Yes! In my family, any good things, high marks etc, were acreditted to the the family as a whole - whereas as my failings were mine alone!
This is how critique should be done. Rather than being superficial, you bring decades of your own experience to the discussion and talk about the concept in question rather than being preoccupied with the man himself. Just a level discussion of “what have I observed, and how does the book compare?”. In-depth, passionate, and clean of any ad hominem tangent. Being someone who spends most of my YT time in the critique end of the website, I wish more people reviewed things in this fashion. Thank you.
My feed shows up too much of JP at times and many of these knockoff videos with very tacky titles. I have an issue with the person also. He seems paranoid to me. I know little of him and need to understand better. He may have sensible things to say but why is he so worked up?
@@RishiAggarwal old comment but overall I still value what JBP brought in his college lectures. What he did was tie classic stories into the context of psychological struggle and compare that in terms of history and true-crime research, making the point that "this scene in Pinocchio is a simplified representation of a male's need to fall in with their group, to sometimes disastrous consequences, and here's the real-world cases where this sort of thing caused great calamity, and here's the personal examples of how it could be affecting your own life".
It's an encouragement not to ignore your own struggle, or that of the world, but to see that everything has consequences and every action of change requires work beforehand to happen; and he uses readily-accessible examples from culture as stand-ins for these concepts so you can relate to it and take it seriously. You can go to lectures about "the effects of gang violence" and agree with it intellectually, but then there's lobster-dad pointing out with intense eye-contact "ok but real talk, if _you_ were in a mob and everyone started smashing the windows and graffitiing, odds are _you would too._ And the less you recognize that ahead of time, the more susceptible you'll be to fall into it. You think it won't happen to you, but it will, whether an extreme cartoonish example or something mundane."
That's what I respected there at least. The way he drew connections between problems and challenged you to find your own pattern and take your place in this world seriously.
He dropped off for me after he got sick and then joined DailyWire. He's on this antagonistic bent against socialist ideals in a way that's clouding his judgment to the point of working in tandem with political mouthpieces; excusing and ignoring the mistakes made on his own side which is very uncharacteristic of how he used to be. He was better as a socio-psychological counselor than he is as a one-sided political heckler.
While I see chapter 5 in another light I think this kind of critique, aside from speculation in JBP's childhood, crusial; it's easy to read JBP and make it into a Bible. It's a guidance. In the end it's up to us to decide what out moral values are and how to raise our children. Personally I think a 2 y o is 90 percent nature and so many parents are not really grown up themselves.
@@RishiAggarwalbc he's Canadian. Look him up.
My husband was never allowed to do anything his parents didn't like or do things that made them dislike him. He ended up with a life that wasn't his and has crashed and burned under the immense weight of the pressure. He is 28 and just now beginning to grieve the losses of being treated like an art project one makes from scratch ("let me make you how I want you") rather than something to be "uncovered/discovered" over time ("who are you? who are you becoming?").
I can understand "don't let your children do anything harmful to themselves/something that would bring them harm"; but to do not do anything the parent doesn't like? The whole point of humanity is to be unique and separate from another - that will naturally beget likes and dislikes from others. It's natural.
I think this is why we have an entire generation of many boomer parents who cannot fathom their children being separate entities from themselves with needs and wants that don't revolve around them - this sort of thinking is why. They are enmeshed psychologically and view children either as an extension of themselves or their property rather than separate beings you have the gift to guide/coach until they can manage on their own.
It looks like you are FIXATED on CERTAIN ASPECT & that's scary. How about working out
your tendencies that overshadow good judgment in
these aspects.
@@MikaComments YOU ARE NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDERED
I.e., they are narcissistic parents (definition being - they use their children for their own needs, rather than being a resource that their *children* can use as needed. Abdul Saad of Vital Mind Psychology has a great video on The Childhood Origins of Narcissism that explains this - using your child for your own needs being the origin of narcissism)
Greetings to your hubby and kudos to you for supporting his process. A few thoughts that have helped me: 1) as adults we are allowed to be our own best parents for our inner child, and to try to repair what was wrong when growing up. 2) It is never too late to "have" a happy childhood, which I have understood as to do comforting and helpful things through my adult life, have compassion for my feelings and allow them all, making a distinction between feelings and actions and values - values being the beacons. I do many "childish" things and I bless my child and grandchildren IRL for playing with me, as well as having found my second husband and loving him for being so many positive things in my life, including being my playmate.
@@MikaComments lol just say you’re a boomer who’s offended and refuses to take accountability for your poor parenting
Your channel is a hidden gem on RUclips. I love watching your videos.
agreed
+1
he just blames others ...not much wisdom in that...
Finally someone that knows what is going on.
@@mrazik131 no... he puts the blame where it belongs... on the perpetrators.
Jordan Peterson always reminds me of Iain MacLeod's famous line about Enoch Powell: "I follow his logic as far as I can, but I always get off before the train hits the buffers."
Great analogy! 🤘🔥💯👏
Omg Enoch Powell and JP in the same sentence… and they do both seem to share certain similarities!!!
Completely disagree. Stay on the train.
He's speaking and searching for Truth. Logos.
Resist quotes that appease pride and sloth.
Perfect
@@machtnichtsseimannAnother fanboy, huh?
I worked as a daycare teacher for almost 10 years. It was fairly easy to spot a connection between a child’s acting out and behaviors of the parents, even when only seeing a tip of the iceberg. It was common practice for teacher’s to spot and discuss red flag parents, and say....“Hmmmm”
I worked with teachers and spotted a lot of red flag teachers.
@@olivierf.4931
Lol. This is very true as well!
@@olivierf.4931 That doesn't mean that a lot of parents don't suck. WTF was your point.
Ever heard of something they call “PANDAS”? Children who are acting out in rage are now said to have this medical condition….but I happen to know the significance of the panda bear to child molesters and so this must be the corrupt mental Health systems idea of a sick joke? Oh inverted world.
Sad that the kids don't have an effective third party who can see what's going on and are willing and able to intercede to actually be of some help.
Thank you for your perspective. I would like to add that not a lot of people know that neglecting a child is also abuse and source of trauma that leads to aggression that you mentioned at age of 2. And people tend to underestimate what neglect is and its effects. At very newborn stage, leaving them alone in the crib, not showing affection and communication, all that already starts the retardation of cognitive development. Some people say "Oh, I know friends who are very nice and unlikely to be child beaters at home, but their children still turned out to be uncivilized, biting" etc. Yes, they might not have been directly abusive to the child in the physical sense, but you don't know if that toddler in his infancy was crying all nights long asking to be picked up, but the parents just took it as normal stage for "sleep training" or "he'll learn to self-sooth". That child received a subconcious message that they're unwelcome to this world, or that this world is hostile, and their basic sense of security has not fully formed. Some parents think that the baby consists of only of their physical body and ignore the needs of their mind and soul for healthy development. And then get surprised how could they become "little monsters".
Yes, yes…and yes!
You put it so well. This is so true
Coddling children is just as bad if not worse than neglecting them. While neglect can be harmful, it will naturally strengthen children, whereas coddling will lead to weak and needy, narcissistic children.
My overall take on him is that he is that he is a frustrated academic. He doesn’t like having to operate within the rules and confines of academia but he doesn’t want to give up the security and benefits of tenure either. I think this makes him very conflicted. There is always an underlying tone of victimhood with him - which is interesting, as he has led a very privileged life.
100% facts
I'm 68. My parents and others of their generation believed in 'molding' the perfect child, not letting them blossom into whoever they wanted to be. Either we complied or we rebelled. Result? Guilt, shame, confusion, depression & unfulfillment of many in my generation.
I just wanted to comment something, and thought your comment is a good point to start. It's not a critique of any way, but just a view that might give you some solace. I have the similar situation as you mentally, but in the different generation. At the same time I see my pierce, who have been tought in the opposite matter. Thus, the freedom of expression parents gave them left them with no boundaries and understanding of how they are suppose to behave in life, how it works, and deep longing for someones attention and guidance, which they paradoxically can't accept, cos they have never been tought to.
@@YuriLongarms I see your point. Yes, the pendulum can swing the other way, and as a teacher who's observed many young children raised by a variety of parenting styles, there are those children who crave guidance and structure.They make mistakes as adults they should have made as kids with guiding, teaching parents to follow up with them. result? Entitlement, confusion, depression, anxiety, lack of self discipline.
C-PTSD is real.
exactly right, It hit me out of nowhere and I had to figure out what was going on.@@TheJustinJ
@@cyndimoring9389Sometimes parents just want to "wash their hands off" the mess they have created; they don't wanna make things worse.
People see that as lack of responsibility, and think parents should do more... things that caused the problems in the first place!
Thank you for validating trauma. Peterson himself has said how authoritarian his father was and has also talk about his depression and his own daughter depression issues. I think he is justifying how his parents raised him.
I had never heard that he described his father as authoritarian, do you remember in what video you saw him talk about it
He had a strict father. He has never referred to his father as being an authoritarian as a negative impact on his life. Mikhaila and his depression are much of biological disposition as well. Depression does have some biological basis. Considering they do have similar autoimmune symptoms as well, it is a possibility that the depression and autoimmune are linked.
@@WaiW41 Depression isn't biological. It's stemmed from learned helplessness, enmeshment, narcissistic abuse, emotional incest etc.
@@Jwet1100 What? I would suggest you read up on the literature. While all the environmental causes you mentioned do play a big role, it's known that genetic disposition to depression can also play a major role in depression.
@@WaiW41 Epigenetics is what's behind genetics though.
I also think that traumatized people tend to seek out partners who have been traumatized and end up marrying each other. So the kids get not only one, but two, broken parents. My siblings also took their issues out on me, the youngest in the family. So now as a child I’m surrounded by 2 parents, two brothers, and a sister who acted out their frustrations and anger on me. I have dissociative identity disorder as a result. Good times…
Hey i'm in a similar boat. I wanted to let you know it does get better. In my case my disassociation is so strong I forget where i'm driving or what I was doing regularly. I am diagnosed adhd as well but imo i just have massive disassociation that acts as adhd. The d.i.d. is kind of an involved convo but yeah I deal with that too.
A few things helped me lately.
1. I was prescribed adhd medication
2. I have dopamine system issues. I don't do any substances every day not even sugar or caffeine. My diet, sleep, stimulants, everything is carefully tuned to help me be productive.
3. Theres a ton of self help and therapy I did. I'm 41 I really don't care about the opinions of negative people anymore and I love myself, I love my spiritual higher power and they love me.
The best advice I can give people dealing with this stuff is that for me and a lot of people our conditions improved proportional to how much effort we put in. I've been doing one on one, group and self forms of therapy for many years.
N B. YOU are on point 💯. So many ppl do no recovery work ever coming from toxic narcissistic parents/family of origin. Thus they are not self aware at all and yes are attracted to ppl of the same ilk and have toxic marriages and continue the sick attitudes of their parents. Many end up murdered by their spouses. So much TRUE CRIME everywhere on YT. This MO is exposed everywhere today in horrid relationships simply bc no one is examining their family of origin dynamics. Excellent post here, Ty so much for sharing this. I wish ppl had ur observation skills to avoid a lot of tragedy in their lives. 👍👍. I wish u success in healing and u may want to go no contact from ur family. I myself had to go no contact from my parents and siblings bc they too have adopted the identical traits as our parents. It’s amazing to me that out of 7 children in my family I’m the only one who recognizes that the sickness in my family is systemic and how I absolutely at a point wanted nothing to do with any of it or them anymore. I wanted PEACE in my life not narcissistic a-holes. No more drama from my family. God bless you.
Yes and sometimes it’s trauma-informed parents who are most protective and aware of their children. So trauma cannot be an excuse for bad behavior, even when we all know it is a root cause.
Yes thats true a generally healthy person mentally with very little trauma who had a decent upbringing aren't gonna vibe with some who has alot of trauma and is generally messed up they won't put up with it cause they have been taught that isn't normal.
@@daryl9799 People that have overcome trauma or have had the fortune of having a healthy upbringing typically spend time with healthy people. I think the reason is even more simple- mentally well people can see through lies and deceit and it makes them uncomfortable. You cannot build a connection because you cannot trust them.
The fact Peterson twists everything he's ever learned and connects it to religion is a big red flag for me.
Yes. Accepting that it being a commonality amongst the religious to 'prove' that all wisdom derives from God, it is my belief that the narcissistic character of God appeals to narcissists because it validates their own behaviour. I suspect that Peterson is a 'convert,' in the sense that all converts go to religion in response to their trauma, and there is little doubt in my mind that his public outbursts (narcissistic rages) are symptoms of (narcissistic) grandiosity. Furthermore, I find his earlier "and that's the damned thing about X"'isms intellectually infantile, as though he just discovered the similarity to scripture, and found it profound in the way that we all find new ideas profound... until we learn more, and our perspective widens.
I'm with you on this. Peterson kind of makes me uneasy in his "lectures". Could never put my finger on it but, you did. Thank you for diving in for a closer look. I haven't had the time. Trauma recognition is key to real help, whether it's self-help or guided by others. Hats off, Doc.
I also have the same feeling. I feel like his point of views may works for extreme conditions to quickly bounce back from bottoms and lows. Toughen people up for a short period of time. But that wouldn't solve the problem from the roots. Cure the surface but rotten underneath.
@@shuangzhumao5728 He’s a psychologist from McGill. Look up The Allan at McGill. Dr Ewen Cameron. This is his training.
That's exactly what I feel about JP and Daniel's analysis; but didn't find the right words. Thank you! After initially going "wow!" after watching a few of JP's videos, I started getting disillusioned with him. Daniel here has really done a great job dissecting the JP phenomenon. To take on a famous celebrity psychologist isn't easy. I now wonder if JP has seen this video and responded to Daniel. Daniel never fails to impress me. He truly is a gem.
I skimmed through his book in bookshop and then tried to read between the lines and found him wanting. Teenagers aren't all waiting for Godot when they go to parties and then feel they want to go to a more exciting party. Some are there for the food. Some to hook up and they aren't too fussy who they do it with unlike older people who see the baggage and are more likely to have it themselves. Some because they like to dance and they feel less self conscious about dancing than older people.
Two year olds cannot possibly be the most violent humans as they can't hit or kick hard.. They might be kicking and punching because they know their kicks and punches haven't much force.
Hopefully it's because he is a fascist pig. I believe in forgiveness and the capacity to change but that guy hasn't changed a bit
I agree his tip should be : "If your child does something dislikable from your perspective figure out why you find it dislikable and figure out why your child behaves that way"
not as catchy but more accurate for sure :) here's the thing though - the reason that certain behaviour is annoying to us might be on us. but it might be that kid is "testing the limits" and it's our job as parents to set those limits. Peterson makes a point against popular Rousseaian "noble savage" approach to parenting (where the child is all good and innocent and if it grows unheappy and evil it's all fault of oprresive culture -meaning parents and wider society). These days You can see many irresponsible parents who don't set any rules for their children. He doesn't try to justify child abuse, really. But maybe he should go more into the details on that one to makes sure that this rule is well-understood (I can see how it can be misleading).
The Problem isn't just the name, it's lies his conclusions as well. Whether it is rule number 5 or any other of the 12, he comes up with things that simply do not make sense.
I would argue that his rule number 1 is the most harmful. Because it sneaks up on you. What he is advocating for is a strict, unforgiving form of self discipline, likening a different - perhaps healthier approach- to laziness. Also, his biology is very off. Though a lot of people seem to meme his lobster theory, it's shows a very poor understanding of biology; approaching human society from an angle of hierarchy amongst lobsters, a species that has NOTHING to do with mammals and is so distantly related to any vertebrate. Truthfully, I can say that a tunicate (Phylum Chordata) is closer to us humans than a f*cking lobster.
Hmm I thought the chapter was more about making sure your kid fits in with other kids. Which also requires a chapter title change.
@@UpsideDown853 What about chapter one sneaks up on you? I don't understand your next sentence, but what do you find wrong with having confidence? The fundamental idea of the lobster is to point out the existence of hierarchies dating back a long time.
@@redus2 There's nothing wrong with confidence. Where did you get that idea? I am not disputing Peterson's claims because I disagree with having confidence. In fact I believe confidence is a healthy, necessary part of our development and personality.
I disagree with his representation of hierarchies. Jordan Peterson equates things that shouldn't be equated. It doesn't matter how long lobsters have had hierarchies, we aren't related. I don't know how well versed you are with phylogenetics, yet lobsters aren't on our branch. We never evolved from lobsters, or from anything from within that branch. Evolution isn't linear. We have more in common with sea urchins... would you base your society on the way sea urchins live? Would you argue that humans have hierarchies similar to sea urchins? No. (hopefully).
What Peterson is saying is that nature intended for hierarchies to exist in a very specific manner. Which isn't true.
Let me try to give you an example: if someone were to write a book about self betterment, and in their first chapter they discuss confidence. Then that wouldn't be a problem so long they stick to studies on humans or medicine. However, should they give an example about how trees are happier with a lot of sunlight, going on to imply that for your confidence to rise, you need to rise like trees and stand in the sun 4 hours a day; A lot of botanists would be very upset. Never mind the doctors, biologists and many other people. It's just wrong.
I have to add this, please. When my son was 2, I never said or chimed in to others who said anything about the "terrible twos", and he never exhibited any if those " behaviors". What I always did was give him reasons, and choices. I believe he grew up to be a most sensitive, reasonable young man. What you feed (focus on) grows. Thank you.
I think there's some truth to this, because despite going into an absolutely neglectful and abusive environment at age 5, I still retained my capacity for kindness and empathy.
And it had to be the experiences I had with another family I was with just before, that always acknowledged me, asked how I felt about things, let me ask them tons of questions, laughing, expressive smiling faces, and I think the most important thing, never hit me or gave me the silent treatment when I did something wrong. They would get mad, tell me why, and then everything back to normal. No love withholding. It was only a couple months, but memories are still vivid and strong, especially all the crying out I did for them every time the new family abused me.
Had I not ever been with them, would've probably turned into a monster in order to cope with all the abuse.
It sounds like you raised your child in a conscious manner. Good on you. I wish more people were "conscious parents" and things like physical discipline were just an embarrassment of the past we dare not repeat. "He who does not learn from/remember his own historys doomed to repeat it." That's supposed to be common sense.
What an amazing parent you must have been. And what an incredible, valuable gift you gave to your son and indeed, the whole world. Thank you!
I think much of it is disposition. I've tried this with my children, as much patience and tolerance that i can muster. Giving choices, validation, comfort, rolled with punches (literally) and my son still has tumultuous violent tantrums over the wrong colour cup and he's 4 now
I absolutely agree that your last sentence sums up a proper attitude in relationships with other people. Whatever you "hand out", multiplies.
I always thought that Peterson doesn't have a self-awarness. He's like a showman on stage.
I remember when he was blowing up and i saw like 2 of his videos and he instantly made my feel uncomfortable and i felt he was very fake. But i didn't bother to think about it any further and just stopped watching him. I think this comment is accurate.
@@AmplefiiI enjoyed JBP content for maybe 2/3 years ish trying to understand his beliefs from his point of view but came across critiques that were more convincing and man, feel like I jumped ship right as he started to say crazy shit lol
@@caixiuying8901 what has he been saying>?
That's a very foolish thought on your part, and only shows how deeply you misunderstand him.
@@chickenlover657ok fan boy
I’ve never commented on a RUclips video before, but I just had to say how much I appreciate you. I’m a mental health counselor, and I originally found your video about why you stopped counseling. I’ve been in the profession for about 4 years, and have been struggling emotionally and professionally for about a year, and I’m coming to many realizations that you outlined in your “6 reasons” video. I can’t express enough how much your perspective is so spot on with how I’ve been feeling. I feel really alone in my feelings about this, and I feel as if so many mental health professionals emotionally distance themselves from their clients, that I don’t have anyone at the practice I work at to talk to that shares these feelings. I’ve tried to talk with my supervisor, and the advice I’m given is the standard “are you using self-care? If you’re feeling overwhelmed emotionally, put some emotional distance between you and your client.” But the thing is, I don’t feel emotionally overwhelmed by my clients-they’re beyond amazing and I’m seriously honored every day that they share the most intimate parts of themselves with me. It’s the not feeling heard by my colleagues and peers that is emotionally draining. It’s lonely questioning the system that you’re a part of, I just wanted to say how much I appreciate you for talking about what others defend so religiously.
I don't want to sound like a jerk saying this. But as we know, biologically women are much more nurturing and empathetic. Which seems like it would be amazing for counseling professions, but as in your case, it can very well serve the opposite effect. You are too empathetic and it weighs you down.
@@IDontReadReplies42069 you've completely missed her point
I understand completely.......I have yet to find someone else to share my positive, or not so positive revelations with
I hope you are in a place with more peace and doing what you love.
@@jellyrcw12 yes mommy.
Please keep making videos. Your perspective is important. Thank you.
I think it would be more accurate to say that people with emotional trauma in their childhood often go on to seek resolution to that trauma from the people around them. So they'll seek out the same type of person that originally hurt them, hoping each time that "this time it will be different". This, perhaps, goes some way to explaining why some people end up with a string of abusive partners.
So Sal, while I understand what you are getting at in your statement, it is not commonly thought that people "seek out" more dysfunction in an attempt to "get it right". And further, the common understanding is that people are not aware of this and it is happening on a subconscious level. Are you saying that people are aware of this on a conscious level when getting to know someone new, or in retrospect after another relationship has gone poorly and is mirroring previous relationships? The difference is vital. To me, the latter is true. People realize that the person who they just ended a relationship with is very much like all of the other partners they have had in their lives. The "law of attraction" is the result of being attracted to someone that will closely resemble other people the person has had failed relationships with in the past, but that is not obvious to the person at all as they are getting to know the new person. The person may even think, "finally, I have found a different kind of person!" Then time goes on and the relationship ends as many have before. Another possibility is that the person is becoming aware of the chemistry between themselves and the new partner and then on somewhat of a subconscious level, sabotages the relationship so that it will end like the others have. Then not even be aware that they created the breakup. This is complicated and probably almost completely different in detail for every relationship that has ever existed. I am sorry I went on and on here but I wanted to make sure you understand that the common wisdom is that the "knowing" is on a completely subconscious level.
@Sal Paradise “The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn.”
Repetition compulsion is a neurotic defense mechanism that attempts to rewrite childhood history, typically the troubled relationship with the opposite sex parent from one’s family of origin.
When a child has an early parental relationship filled with abandonment, neglect, abuse, rejection or intense frustration and disappointment, they are put in a difficult place psychologically. In order to survive, the child has to deny the reality of their situation, including their strong emotions of anger/rage, depression and despair.
To overcome these intense emotions and maintain their state of denial, children will instead cling to hope. This hope is a childish one where the young person believes that if only they could be good enough, smart enough, perfect enough, etc., their problem parent will finally love them unconditionally, as they long for and need to be loved. They mistakingly believe that they (the child) are the problem and they hold the power to fix the situation by becoming someone more acceptable to the parent. Even though they try desperately over and over again to fix the relationship, they cannot. They do not understand that the problem lies with the parent, not them.
The wounded child continues to cling to the hope throughout childhood and into adulthood in order to avoid falling into despair. Once an adult, the wounded person has, like most adults, an uncanny attraction for someone of the opposite sex who resembles in some fashion (either psychologically or physically) the parent with whom they had difficulties. At this point, the inner child is calling the shots and the person is making the choice for this parent-like mate unconsciously. The decision is made in the subconscious, which is why repetition compulsion is a neurosis
@@tonysimmons5729 No, I mean that all that I said happens "subconsciously". It would be odd indeed to be aware of such a drive and to give into it.
@@aymenblue2841 Yup, that's what I said, though perhaps not as technically correct.
It's something I'm now aware of, having lost 40 years to doing just this very thing.
You nailed it! If you learn more of his story you will uncover he never looked at his relationship with his own father.
If your child does something that makes you dislike him, and he does it because of the environment, then MAKE sure you build the RIGHT environment around him, whatever that means for each individual.
Seeing JP speak often makes me feel like he got some traumatic issues. Something went wrong in his life and he's still fighting to get over with that. I don't know if he suffered or suffers from acute depression. But truly loved your video. Thank you.
He mentioned on JRE at one point that he has suffered with severe depression most of his life. He was talking about how his carnivore diet apparently cured it, and that a single apple cider or whatever made him severely depressed on the verge of panic attack for an entire month. There is definitely something off...
first of all this men is scientist and clinical psychologist of course he talks about issues people have to resolve when they are asking for help.
@@christianrusin7397 why do people try and excuse the bad behaviour of psychos like JP?
@@christianrusin7397 yeah this man is phycologist yet he can't recognize his own physical problems. That's very strange
I get a strange feeling when I listen to him. He has mostly truthful points and is very smart, but I a lot of anger in his tone in between the lines at times as well as sadness. I don't feel empowered to be a better version of myself and make positive changes in my life. There's a lack of softness there which is generally what a vulnerable person needs when seeing a therapist or seeking healing.
I raised my kids to grow up to be people that I could associate and be friends with as adults. It has worked out very well. I like them. They like me.
Dr. Spok was the popular one for my grandparents generation and reading what he says gives me the shivers. There are a lot of people who believe in breaking a child’s spirit, people who can’t tolerate the messiness of them - when that’s nature. And happy healthy people grow up to express their true nature.
It was the usual practice here in Europe/Germany. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisonous_pedagogy
God my mother read Doctor Spock! That probably explains everything. I’ve never read him but even as a kid I knew I didn’t like him. M going to take a look at his work. Thanks for the insight
I've heard Dr. Spock criticized as being too liberal and modern. I know that he still advised a strict feeding schedule for babies, but that's all I've heard about him in the other direction. What is it about his advice that you dislike?
I fully understand and respect why you no longer do therapy. You are one in a million. I can only hope you continue sharing your thoughts online. Your insight is invaluable!
I knew this was going to be good. I discovered your channel last night and am so grateful that I did. I’m a psychology major and you share all the information and discussion that I’ve been yearning for as I’ve gotten increasingly frustrated with the field. You’re incredible.
Bless you. You've put your finger on something huge, and explained it so very well. I was riveted.
After watching a lot of JP's lectures and videos I felt there was something missing. Contrary to his work I can relate to Daniel's ideas in so many ways. Thank you for this great video.
I think we get so used to listening to people talk who have nothing to say that we don’t even realize that the things he says has no substance
I totally agree with you, David. We need to see kids for who they are. Children are basically helpless. They need gentle care and empathy. Understand the child from the child's perspective. They will learn what it is to grow up as a healthy adult this way.
Upon first *seeing* Jordan Peterson, my perception was REPRESSION. I was immediately repelled by him. I can't seem to see the exterior without seeing the interior. He "felt" positively creepy. And, as I listened, he was *negatively* creepy. High intelligence does not confer goodness or wisdom upon a personality. In his case, I believe he hides behind his IQ. 🐯
I agree with you. Something about him is not right.
“There are no beautiful surfaces without terrible depth”- Nietzsche
I can also spot a madness in Dr Peterson. Someone who has dealt with some of the suffering that life brings. But I’d rather hear from a man like that. Than one who is naive and oblivious. Because his life was easy. And his character wasn’t built through the ruggedness that this world brings.
Immediately repelled, that was me, too
Creepy? You have issues
You've got psychological issues.
I firmly believe that we have to become children again, with the intelligence and cunning of adults, wearing our true emotions and passions with pride, so everyone can see them and participate, being vulnerable but at the same time not defenseless due to outstanding experience. Only then can we create a world which will not traumatize the next generation.
Watching your video I realize that JP probably thinks that trauma is a normal state of being. Instead of resolving it, he accepted it and then went as far as possible. And that is just as far as he got being smart as he is.
I really like how you worded that. I believe JP uses his trauma or part of it as an engine of rage and discipline a lot of times on different topics such as this. Man knows what he is talking about, he just doesn’t know how to transform it into healthy actions that will lead to capable humans whose outcomes could differ from what he has experienced.
Thanks. Kids are no "cruel monsters".
It's crazy to see it like that even
Bad behavior isn't always about oppressive parents. Children acting out can also be the result of overly passive/protective parents who fail to teach their children how to self-regulate and don't set appropriate boundaries with them. I think what Peterson meant (I've listened to a lecture he gave on the subject) is that children shouldn't be mollycoddled which is what happens with a lot of modern parenting these days.
But that’s still trauma being overly protective or being so anxious and afraid of things that you pass that on to your children. Mollycoddling is still oppressive . A child will absorb and reflect the parents therefore you need to look at your own issues and no assume that your child is just inherently bad.
@@00samira00 I said nothing about a child being inherently bad. What I said is that children can respond negatively to different parenting styles and not just oppressive/overbearing ones. That's you reading something into my comment that's not there (perhaps you should check your issues before advising others to check theirs).
Yes exactly. Jordan was talking about not letting the child become shunned and outcast because they never learn manners.
@@00samira00thank you for this insightful comment. Absolutely “mollycoddling” is just another form of unresolved parental issues. The books: Toxic Parents and My Mother myself have good information on the traumatic origins of “overindulgent parents”. Btw, I completely agree that “physical punishments” are not the answer.
Yes, well said. I have listened to, easily 30 of Peterson's talks. He describes what you are saying about his meaning repeatedly in those talks; he's consistent. I've never read his book itself, perhaps he doesn't write this rule well. I also see that he could have unresolved childhood trauma in this realm. I recall, distinctly, that he speaks about the detriment to the child who is so poorly socialized that by the age of 4 or 5 other children don't want to play with them....poor socialization of the toddler leads to a whole other challenge to their further development which needs to occur through peer interaction.
Holy shit this is very accurate, I can't believe I missed this... As a child who refused to believe he was traumatised, but an adult who is now trying to accept the responsibility for this trauma and how it's affecting my behaviour, this struck a very resonant chord.
All therapists are flawed. That doesn't mean that their work doesn't have tremendous benefit. People are responsible for thinking for themselves and not just "trusting" and deferring to "experts". Peterson is a deep-thinker and philosopher. He also seems to very genuinely care about Humanity and individual human beings. He discusses the sacredness of being a psychotherapist in the privilege to hear people's unique life stories. He is flawed. What he has contributed to Humanity is so necessary and valuable at this time. Just the simple act of taking an unwavering courageous stand to the Canadian government and University system, in regard to compelled speech, is a priceless contribution. Very few are willing to sacrifice themselves in the face of true tyranny; he walks his talk.
I had the EXACT same reaction to rule #5. Thank you for being a voice of decency and reason in this world.
I’m another one frowning when hearing that rule.
What Peterson meant is don't let your children's behavior get so bad that you have to shout at them and punish them and get angry with them. In other words, set limits and boundaries. And don't let yourself get so angry that you reject the child even for a moment. I read about a mother via a Facebook, it was a friend of a friend of a friend, and anyway she got so angry at her son for failing an exam or something that she actually drove him in front of an orphanage to threaten him. Imagine that. I mean in this case she needed therapy badly but you get the idea.
Basically if your child is so loud that you can't work, just gently signalize it, don't wait until you're livid. That's what the rule is about.
@@vivvpprof I'm wondering if you watched the video because Jordan Peterson doesn't acknowledge that the parent/s and/or other so-called caregivers are usually the cause of the child's difficult behaviour in the first place and even recommends abusing children as a way to "discipline" them. 🙁
@@cyndigooch1162 I haven't seen the part where he encourages abusing children I'm curious as to what video you are talking about.
@@vivvpprof Thankfully someone has read the book here
Dr Gabor Mate mentioned several times that JP has unresolved trauma.
do you know what video I'm curious about this
1 2 It's in his interview with Rebel Wisdom. By the way I think he's wrong about this. I would like to hear what you think after you listen to Maté's analysis
CrowsTakingOff thanks, I’m not sure about Gabor Mate. A lot of people like him and there have been a few of his videos I’ve liked but I feel that he mischaracterizes Peterson and his views “evil marxists out to get us” that’s not what Jordan thinks it’s much more complicated and thought out than that. There’s also this whole “processed trauma” thing that I just don’t buy. I think Jordan would say he is angry because he should be angry given the circumstances if he wasn’t angry then nothing would change. And trauma is in many people the spur that gets them to change. I feel like Gabor Mate’s view on human nature is a little too optimistic as we can see with a lot of the Marxist types and a lot of them are compassionate people who think that everyone is like them, most children just given to their own devices doing whatever their whims are selfish cruel pieces of shit. We all have to repress aspects of ourselves if were to not be in mayhem. Children aren’t smart enough or skilled enough to channel all these parts of themselves in a way that isn’t detrimental to others and themselves in the long run.
@@BrianScalabrineMVP Compassion is our best survival mechanism. Be compassionate or be extinct. aeon.co/videos/dont-misread-darwin-for-humans-survival-of-the-fittest-means-being-sympathetic?fbclid=IwAR3ddKA7e18GuSSTiND6jq7jTacBf-IJ2F9sKp3KLo68qw9Xq4cVFcKlme4
@@BrianScalabrineMVP You are so wrong and I really hope you are childless! Please don't procreate! Your way of thinking about the way children are is what's wrong with society and why so many children suffer in silence. Grow some empathy!
I've got a father who thinks like JP. I broke off contact a few years ago......
:)
Thank goodness! A psychotherapist who isn't a grifter for the "free" market. Being able to empathize with people who have suffered trauma is so important. JBP certainly seems to have huge issues of his own which he does not address at all.
He has done - there are some videos where he talks about his youth - and the misspent bits..😊
@@sabinekoch3448 He's still a quack.
JBP talks about 'burning off' the parts of yourself that are not conducive to achieving your better self (my paraphrasing) ....and he says you might have to "burn off" up to 95% of yourself.
@@stoosam3244 he is a classic psychopath. Imo.Depressing how many who dont see right through him.
Shows how smart and good he is (was). A has been thank the Lord.
Joe Rogan says of Jordan Peterson:
"He's really misunderstood ... misrepresented... people think he's some fascist, some 'nazi'....they try to pretend that he's this rascist, homophobic ... alt-right character. He's not by any stretch of the imagination."
He has a lot of enemies on both the far left and right because he dismantles their arguments and the vast majority of them can't cope with it.
This is a synopsis of his position, in my opinion:
Christianity sought truth. This lead to science. Science disproved God. Hence
Nietzche's statement: "God is dead". Nietzche said that, without God, homosapiens would make up their own morals. In making up our morals, we become sanctimonious and that leads us to self-righteous conflict and then ultimately nihilism. He said it would lead to mass murder for 200 years. And so, he predicted the death camps of the C20th, explaining the murderous outcomes of Nazism and Marxism in the name of utopian ideology.
And we're not out of the woods yet - look at North Korea. So, how do we solve this?
Jung said our morality is ingrained, and all our historical myths and stories (including The Torah/Old Testament) are our stumbling, fumbling attempts to find out, understand and explain our ingrained morality and, ipso facto, who we are.
How do we bring that morality to the fore?
Life is suffering - this is told in the Torah/Old Testament and is the cornerstone of Buddhism (The 1st Noble Truth). Suffering has meaning - no-one is complacent about their own pain. But by taking on suffering VOLUNTARILY, we change our relationship to it. This is symbolised by bearing the cross. So, the individual is sovereign. And if individuals can bear that responsibility and stay TRUTHFUL, they can give meaning to their life in the face of "the catastrophe of existence" (we are born; we suffer; we die).
As individuals we are not insignificant and an individual can change everything. One oft cited example is Alexandre Solzhenitsyn, the Russian author [who said "Everything you add to the truth subtracts from the truth"]. His personal account of Soviet labour camps played a pivotal part in ending the USSR.
No-one who wants a peaceful world wants to go back to anything like that. But a lot of current ideology is exactly the same as that which has produced those catastrophic outcomes. So complacency is not an option
So, how can individuals learn to bear this responsibility (particular the disenchanted, who feel overwhelmed and chaotic)? The answer is: Through incremental changes in habits, in certain 'crucial' areas, which over time can create a significant improvement for the individual (as demonstrated in the book 'Atomic Habits') That is the basis of "12 Rules for Life".
"It depends on what you mean by Jordan Peterson".
😂😂😂😭🤣🤣
🤣
That's actually going to be title of his autobiography
Devya Dixit This is actually a very valid question. Jordan has a lot of different sides to him.
@@souljacem If you need to refuse to answer yes/no and always accuse your opponent of mischaracterizing your convoluted argument, the flaw is with your argument.
I wished Danial Macklers book "Breaking from your parents" would be as popular as 12 rules for life.
So true! I’m a foster parent and I use to try and “fix” traumatized children. I one day had an epiphany that I had to except them for who they are and allow them to be dysfunctional. The key is to be an example to them of unconditional love snd acceptance!
@Smally Bigs : You don’t have a clue at what I’m talking about!
@Universalis Ted : Well, I did get 9 likes, so no one understands? Ok? I’ve fostered traumatized kids! Kids that have witnessed their Mom being shot by their drug dealing Dad! Kids that have been sexually trafficked by their Mom! These kids will have behavioral issues! When they act out you can’t blame them! It requires allot of grace and understanding! We take foster classes on being trauma informed, these kids have PTSD and their brain chemistry literally changes! If you take traumatized kids in and expect them to behave normally you are sadly mistaken! I learned this from experience! Change takes time! You have to allow them to be themselves! Hope this isn’t too “ambiguous” and can shed some clarity on what it’s like fostering traumatized children!
@@michaelmurray8416 you are right, the first one did not know what you were talking about and the second one was being a jerk, it was very clear what you were attempting to convey.
It's not straight forward one way street for parenting. Can't use the same way we teach normal children and expect them to work with abused children. Well said and appreciated.
How lucky your foster children are. I salute all foster parents. Not nearly enough due to so many children suffering due to parents' drug addiction, eyc
I get uncanny valley vibes from him the same way I do when I encounter a narcissist. I’m not saying he is a narcissist, but something’s definitely off
First we need to define what exactly is a Jordan Peterson.
@@smiley122688 no its a Jordan peterson joke about Jordan peterson.
The meta is real
A pop psychologist which sells simplified ideas?
@@XXISecolo spot on
With globalist backing. I find it odd he preaches about Bible lessons, yet doesn't believe in Jesus. Perversion at its finest
Yes he does have globalist backing, same as elon musk. Your comment is censored btw, mine will be too probably
True story: I read Peterson’s book when it first came out, and I thought of you when I got to that chapter. At the beginning of this video, I guessed that this is the chapter you had an issue with.
However, I don’t think Peterson would necessarily disagree with what you say about trauma. He was making a different point entirely - namely, he was admonishing a culture that exists in which parents let their children do whatever they want, because they believe rules will destroy the natural goodness of children. Indeed, the fear parents have in creating boundaries for their children might itself be due to trauma.
It's possible to raise children with boundaries without Peterson's approach to disciplining. It seems that Peterson is somewhat a behaviourist in his approach, as I've seen him defend positive and negative reenforcement as the main way of disciplining. That's a very narrow view of human behaviour in my opinion.
Gonçalo Moreira Can you elaborate? What do you think is a better way to discipline children?
@@plowerrr3 There's evidence that both rewards and punishments are not very effective when it comes to disciplining a child. Apparently rewards tend to reduce intrinsic motivation to do a certain task and it seems that you need to increase the rewards over time for it to continue being effective.. Punishments also tend to "work" on the short term but seem to be dependent on an increase in intensity over time. Besides the fact that they're don't help us to clarify what are the roots of behaviour - feelings, needs, etc. - and aren't skill-building activities. They don't teach you how to do something better, they don't increase your awareness of your needs and how to be more effective in meeting those needs,. Fortunately, humans are a bit more sophisticated than this and are very very responsive to role-modeling coming from people they have a strong and good relationship with. Assuring the quality of the relationship, teaching, guiding, role-modeling is incredibly effective. But it's a very difficult thing to do because for that to work we need to embody the values and behaviours we want the child to learn. Tough! But miraculous in my (limited) experience. When the means of guiding are consistent with the ends (which in my case means helping the child learn values like respect, assertiveness, honesty, empathy, compassion, truth, courage, etc.), things tend to work better. That means that the way you teach your child should be respectful, assertive, honest, compassionate, loving, truthful, etc. Is spanking a child a good embodiment of these values?
Gonçalo Moreira I agree that role modeling is extraordinarily powerful. I would be surprised if Jordan Peterson didn’t believe this himself. Indeed, it bears some resemblance to his other rule “change yourself before you change the world.” However, I don’t believe it is always practical.
For one, a child will often try to push boundaries to see how much this role model is willing to accept, and how strong he/she is willing to stand for it. It is possible to punish and reward with respect. You’re essentially telling the child that this is not how a person behaves, and when you do this, there are consequences. As Peterson writes, if children don’t learn where the boundaries are now, society is a much harsher disciplinarian later in life.
Second, it is wishful thinking to believe we’re all perfect. We are not, and thus it is inevitable that children will learn some undesirable things. I think it’s reasonable to take the position that one should continuously work on themselves while still punishing and rewarding children for behavior that you know is desirable/undesirable.
Regarding your first point, I agree the child tests boundaries and if you want to teach them assertiveness you need to be able to communicate your boundaries as a parent. I don’t think rewards and punishments tend to be the best option though, for the reasons I mentioned above. We don’t need them to assert boundaries, even though we think we do.
Regarding your second point, I agree children need very frequent guidance to learn how to live. They learn things that don’t work very well, etc. But again, rewards and punishments tend, in my opinion, to not work very well when you want to teach them behaviours that are desirable or undesirable.
Maybe it’s not clear what I mean by role-modelling. It doesn’t me just hoping that the child will copy your behaviour by observing you, even though in a way it does. This kind of approach implies a different mindset and maybe a different view of human nature. For me, it was and continues to be a challenge to the way I used to think, but the more I’m able to integrate it, the better results I get with children. It’s difficult to go into more detail on a youtube but if you want to explore a bit more (and I urge you to do so because it’s extremely interesting, challenging and effective in the long-term), you may want to check authors like Jane Nelson, Laura Markham, Adele Faber, and others (there are videos on youtube). I can give you other recommendations. You may feel, in the beginning, that they are full of s***, but I can assure you they’re not, it works. It’s just very different from the way most of us were raised and because of that it feels really weird, idealistic and not practical, but it works, even though it takes a lot of practice to be able to implement it effectively. Think of it like playing an instrument. You usually need at least 10 years of deliberate practice to achieve I high degree of competency. People who quit after a year of trying usually don't get very far. But it works if you persist, and I know it because I'm a pianist ;)
Yes. It’s such a shame that most of us don’t realize we have unresolved traumas until we become parents.
By the way, another take on the "Spare the rod" comment. The rod spoken about is a shepherds crook and is a rod of correction to help the sheep know which way to go, to guide them safely and with care, not to beat them senseless if they strayed from the flock. A Shepard protected his sheep, even to the point of giving up his own life to save one of them. He never beat the sheep into submission with his rod. “Thy rod and thy staff comfort me”. But many people who believe in hitting and abusing children use “spare the rod, spoil the child” to justify child abuse. Just my two cents worth as a Christian. Its one reason why Jesus was called The Good Shepard.
no. "thy rod AND staff...". The rod is not the staff
I think the bible can be interpretted in many ways and as such shouldn't be seen as a dependable source of understanding about human relations and psychology like the way that trauma occurs in us since the mythos and such can be seen in many ways.
NB Thanks for the insightful two cents. I never thought of it that way...Regardless of how the Bible meant it, the child correction that you speak of seems much more beneficial to the child and is the loving way that Jesus treated children.....even telling us to become like them if we want salvation, not for the children to become like us which is the mistake that most parents make.
There are many benefits for adults to be more child-like including better imagination that is necessary for successful manifestation of goals. I'm struggling to rekindle my ability to imagine back to the way it was before being exposed to so much tv 'programming'.
The phrase 'Spare the rod and spoil the child' is not in the Bible. It's from a poem by Samual Butler.
@@TheShadowpatterns Proverbs 13:24
I admire JP, but as a recovering BPD, that very chapter really sent my head spinning. I’m so happy to know that I’m not alone in feeling that way. Thank you for this video.
I feel the same
@@bonn94 Could you tell a little bit more about that?
Same
@@onthearth1 recovery in such case means you gotta learn about it and try to control the triggers. People with BPD unlike other personality disorders are aware of what is wrong with them and usually try they best to survive once they acknowledge about it. They need to build up a trained, more mature and logical identity by help of a therapist so that they handle the situations felt difficult to them at some points.
@@onthearth1 no, it doesn’t last forever. If you heal your trauma, you can heal and grow out of it.
FINALLY i see a video where someone criticizes J B Peterson on the content of what he actually says and writes. Usually they just use arguments like "he uses overly complicated language to explain a simple thing in one hour" or "he's like literally Hitler".
That rule about the children is actually the major problem I have with Peterson, it has always seemed authoritarian for a man who so fervently disavows authoritarianism.
thanks. Daniel
This is all about philosophy, but he doesn't mention that at all. His entire argument is based on his belief that humans are born good, which is an old and thoroughly debunked view on human nature, and clearly way out of his area of expertise. As JBP would say you can't even begin to citicize him for his ideas because they are actually Jungian ideas. To be fair its just a critique, he obiously isn't omniscient, but for a guy so interested in evidence he talks a lot without any of it.
Well I personally put it in the context of the entire book which also has the rule about not bothering kids when they're skateboarding, and taking the two together I think strikes an appropriate balance.
Well, he definitely has a huge Christian bias. Bible says, "respect your parents and elders" or something to that affect.
I vehemently disagree with it. I think you should "try" to be nice, but if someone's an idiot or douchebag, you have no obligation to respect them, internally, in your mind.
Here's another bible quote: The truth will set you free. Be honest with yourself, even at the expense of your "respect" for people that don't fucking deserve it!!!
@Insidious Sid Please elaborate...
When I was 11 my dad, in a fit of rage after stepping on one of my toys, threw me face first into a closet where my toybox was kept. He had built it himself and it was pretty simple and had these sharp corners. I grazed it face first and luckily it just split my lip, but if I'd hit wrong it could have disfigured me or, if I'd been really unlucky, killed.
Afterwards I threatened to call child protective services on him and dad laughed in my face, asking if I thought I'd be better off as an orphan cared for by the state. He was right and I knew it, I was better off with him, financially stable and merely willing to risk killing me when I acted out. I didn't call.
Years later when dealing with a mental health crisis my fad laughed at me for seeking professional help, accusing me of trying to work the system like "you always do." His example was that time I threatened to call cps on him. In his mind as an adult I'd recognize how foolish I was as a kid. When I reminded him about throwing me in the closet he shut up and has never brought that concept or incident up since. It's as close to an apology as I'm likely to get.
For years I think I'd internalized the belief that I had been a bad kid, that I was a scam artist always out to work the system in my favor, despite the fact that I do not live my life that way and in fact usually reject even the assistance I'm owed by whatever systems I interact with. This encounter with dad opened my eyes slightly, still a lot of work to do, I still internally believe I am the problem, most of the time.
Yeah, I am a Gabor Mate girl, however, he thinks all parents are doing the best they can and they all love their children. I can say that part of his take, I absolutely do not agree with.
I don't think you understood what he meant. He says all parents are doing the best they can with the resources they have. It doesn't mean they are not abusive, traumatising, damaging to children. It just means they are themselves so traumatised they have no other resources. It doesn't excuse them, and in fact part of the healing is realising how much damaged they have done in your life and accepting that they didn't have your best interests at heart. However this is, unfortunately, the best they could do because they didn't do the healing for themselves and passed on the trauma to the next generation. You don't need to forgive them to heal and move on. No one would advocate that. However the fact is they couldn't do any better for you because they were no able to behave in a different way, they didn't know how. So in that respect they did the best they could, it just was not enough by any standards.
@@blackdogclinic602 Very well said, insightful.
@@blackdogclinic602 this^^^^^^ i got the same message from what he has to say about that
@@blackdogclinic602 We're all doing the best we can....God help us!🤕😄
JBP has said several times that parents can be very cruel towards their children and actually
I knew I had bad vibes about him and you helped articulate why.
Yes me too - that was my reaction. To people who rate him highly, all I culd say was "I can't stand him, but I can't explain why"!
Jordan seems cocky, chauvinistic, and close-minded.
@@ebd847 J.P. does exhibit Paranoia and Narcissism for sure .
I just realized that not letting your children do anything that makes you dislike them is one way parents can pass on their dysfunction, their mental illnesses, to their children. Peterson has tremendous repressed rage, and he often, without realizing it, talks about that rage. Not tolerating children is one way to express such rage. Complaining that it's not acceptable to hit women, or at least communicate the possibility of hitting a woman, is another expression of repressed rage.
hitting women is cowardise at its highest form, its lashing anger without control onto another person , which is a women ....lets say its easier to hit a women than a men , ain't it ;) Cowards and bullies do that because they get away without opposition , but hitting another that defends himself with same strenght has you , demands courage which men that hit women dont have!
I will assume you hit women for saying that . Get help if you do !
@@sylvaindescoteaux4208spot on
Jordan's head is to big, his heart is too small. That's my feeling. You have analyzed it perfectly.
Simple. Well said. 💯
You could sum up our entire culture that way.
@@penyarol83 that's right. In 2017 I visited Timor Leste for the first time.
The warmth that I felt was something that I had never felt in my life. In 2021 I packed my bags and decided to spend some time there. And here I am almost 2 years later and it has stabilized me and gave me a lot of time to reflect and receive insights without being disturbed by the mental activity from thousands of western crazies. In the COVID era Oxford UK really had turned into an open air mental asylum. It's not the people that are crazy who are the problem, it's the people that don't know they are crazy, that are the problem.
exactly
I randomly discovered your channel and I'm so glad that I did. You clearly put a lot of empathy and thought into what you say.
Two year olds are also the most spontaneous and loving being, I used to love my toddlers for that ❤️
I agree! "Varmints," indeed. Shame on him.
So you just decied one day that their temper outbursts never happened? Or were those fits of love?
@@donnellallan you don’t understand Peterson’s point.
My two year old can def b a bratty jerk 😣😣 he screams, kicks, threws things at me, etc.. But he is also very cuddly, lovey, silly and sweet☺☺ I wouldn't trade him for anything!!!💚💚💚💚
People also tend to forget; a two year old's brain is still developing.. Of course they are going to b violent and mean at times because they have yet to learn how to process, regulate and understand feelings!!🤦🤦😂😂😂😂
Actually that was a phrase that struck me too, but very differently. My mother, being raised in a strict uncompromising home, went to the opposite extreme with us children. She absolutely refused to set boundaries or enforce any sort of structure . Result: chaos. She developed a deep , hidden dislike for her own children who she now viewed as ungrateful brats. Knowing your own mother dislikes you is devastating.
I so wish we had learned structure and boundaries along WITH proper ways to express our feelings- and be heard and understood. Maybe everyone could have grown and learned then.
Yes, there is also a difference between authoritarian and authoritative parents.
I like this persepctive from dreams of turtles
#ResistBlueISIS AikenCountySC is corrupt! Yes, I as well.
Peterson describes children as "little balls of potential", which is why he seems them as good and bad, and not just fundamentally one or the other. He also doesn't see misbehavior as fundamentally bad *per se*, as it can be a child's natural demeanor to want to push boundaries with people to find out where exactly they are, and specifically with young boys, some levels of aggression and competition are a primary form of playing and forming bonds with one another.
While you may be correct in that much of a baby's misbehavior can be mirroring traumatized parents or responding to said parents, I think it's extraordinarily disingenuous to presume that babies are simply born fundamentally good and it's the trauma of their reality that introduces evil into their lives. As far as I can tell, you have no more proof for that claim than Peterson does for his.
And really, there are plenty of scenarios that I think points to Peterson being more correct. If a small child innocently uses permanent markers to make a mural on your hallway's walls (something I personally did as a child), you wouldn't explain that away as a trauma response, despite it being mildly destructive behavior in some way (and certainly a hassle for the parents), as it's clearly an innocent act of spontaneous, childish creativity and passion.
I think you and Peterson are kind of talking over each other a bit here, and I think he'd actually agree with a lot of what you're saying. His point is, don't let yourself come to hate your child enough to torment/abuse them, but his sticking point is enforcing boundaries with the children rather than practicing patience and tolerance with children (ie. in some way, putting the responsibility on the child rather than the parent, which I don't fully agree with). But I think he does that because, at the end of the day, he is a conservative, and he does believe that it's a parent's job to make sure that their child doesn't just grow up loved and cared for, but also socialized and *socially desirable*. Peterson could've coined Rule #5 as, "don't let your kids do anything that will make society ostracize them", and it would make about as much sense.
And you guys will just always fundamentally disagree on that point, I think. Clearly your life experiences have led you to finding success and (I hope) happiness in finding yourself and rejecting the social constraints that were placed upon you when you were younger. Peterson's story is essentially the exact opposite. Whereas you're a voice for the outcasts, the traumatized, Peterson is a voice for but more specifically young men who increasingly don't have a father figure in their lives, and who have no idea what it even means to be a man, or what their place in the world is.
Wow.
Peterson certainly is holding trauma. He's quick to anger in situations where it doesn't seem warranted.
like?
You must be a really calm person
@@ir3555 I am calm on the outside but burning up inside.
My joke was just that to have the perspective that he is quick to anger, you must not be very quick to anger. Compared to myself, I'd say Peterson is a chill dude
@@ir3555
a "Chill dude" is an understatement.
I absolutely agree. I followed Jordan Peterson's material for a while and even went to one of his talks on his book tour. I think he has a lot of great advice for young people when it comes to building the lives they desire but he is weaker when it comes to addressing emotional issues. I still enjoy his talks and videos but he's not the first person I would turn to when it comes to resolving emotional issues. I much prefer your approach when it comes to dealing with trauma and emotional growth.
Kani Lana fair analysis
What approach does Daniel apply that Jordan B Peterson does not support?
define approach and apply
@@colto2312 the speaker in the video suggested a third way. Healing the actual trauma of the parents so that the need for disicplinary correction no longer occurs. He already omitted the fact that first of all before anything else Jordan Peterson emphasizes that you have to be critical on yourself first before extending it to others. Logically the solution he suggests is already being covered by the other rules.
Weaker on emotional issues? Here is an analogy, which do you prefer as an individual. Someone who is self healing and self regulating, is capable of rolling with the punches, resilient enough to actually endure stress and mindful enough to accept the actual ugly reality we live in making best with whatever cards He/She is dealt with, or someone who whenever He/She encounters hardships immediatly searches for outside help most commonly to pharma, therapy or other substances?
I remember everything from my childhood, and I'm 38 now. I knew there was a problem with them from the age of 4. I remember screaming at my dad that I hated him when I was 4. I mean, what can you do if the child's behaviour is right and the parent's behaviour is wrong. I went to bed starving all throughout childhood, and when I finally moved out permanently around 26, I was a bloody mess of a person, even though I had a physics degree, I had barely eaten anything, I was just a shell of a human being, just a shell. I might be 38 but it feels like 12. I still haven't spoken to anybody really and I highly doubt I'll meet someone who will speak to me. There are 9 year olds who have more social experiences than me. It's actually quite frightening to think about, but it's true. I'm JP's worst nightmare, because I'm a walking contradiction to the major things that he believes about the world.
Hey you need to talk about what happened to you. Go to therapy. You have developmental trauma...parts of you are stunted. But you can heal :)
@@annihilationHaven
Im sorry to read you are in so much pain! Do you want to connect?
annihilationHaven: 4 years after your post: That was a well-put comment anyway, have you met anyone to talk with yet? How did you manage the interaction with your Physics peers? Or was it easier because oif the common topic of interest?
If you have any alcohol problem, drinking more than you want to, or to relax, or to dare to be social etc, I recommend you try AA. I am mainly in OA, who use the same Big Book. Otherwise a daughter program of ACA has helped many self-heal. Adult children of Alcoholics and Other Dysfunctional families.
@@Medietos I realize everything had to happen this way coming from a horrible home. But the bigger problem was it was horrible in a way that surpasses the torture that other people might experience. Nevertheless I did manage to have a pseudo-relationship with a girl, dated a few dozen times, but she's not interested in talking to me - this has happened dozens of times before, but it usually ends after 1-6 dates and in one case it ended after 9 years with the girl who didn't want to talk to me finally swearing at me and de-friending me for good. So yeah, I know I repel men, but I really know I repel women too. They might be initially interested, but that's all. Same thing goes for employers, I did 40+ interviews, but the employers only wanted to meet me, they didn't want to talk about hiring me. So I gave up on a career, maybe too quickly. Also spent most of the last 11 years in a country where nobody speaks English, and it turned into a war zone, and my building was hit by an explosive and that wasn't even the first time that happened. But no, alcohol is kind of a sick joke, I would never drink. Maybe that gives you a small picture of what's going on. It would take 30 years to explain, there is a LOT more, all in the same vein. Of course my learning curve on power has gone up exponentially in the last 4 years as I've spent enormous amounts of time studying gaslighting and why it is so effective against most people and why nobody wants to do anything about it. At least I can say I took my employer to court once over a constructive dismissal case. The look on the judge's face told me I was the first person to bring all of the dark garbage to court, can you imagine? Nobody complained about the garbage for decades in an industry that employs over 6000 people? That case was after my 3rd year, after a 50% pay cut. But like I said, there's more, a LOT more.
would it help you to write some of your memories and thoughts down?
It seems to me like jordan peterson is a sociopath
“If this is his point of view then I have to question everything he has to say”. Good ending Daniel.
That's a good starting point. The masses of desperate fatherless men who look up to JP for fatherly guidance should take heed (not to make little of fatherlessness, I myself did not have the best father figure).
The guy can even have some great things to say and I think he does, but any sensible person with the status Peterson has themself would want people to question what they say. There are even times where Peterson's way of communicating, not the content of his speech, gets in the way of what he's trying to achieve. The man actively suggested people at least consider trying psych meds and claimed you could go on them and just go right back off them if there's an issue and you'll be fine; then look what happened.
@@ataj585 The man himself is driven to tears over this. Thousands of people looking to you for more help than you're able to give them, this is a difficult position for a person to be in when you actually have it all together.
You won't have to question J.P. if you don't listen to him ; )
Yes, sometimes people concentrate sooooo much on external issues so that they do not have to deal with personal reflection. I agree with what you said. There is no substitute for simple honesty, it makes life worth living. Thumbs up for you Mr Mackler.
As I understand JP's rule 5, the idea is to help your kids successfully socialize, to help them progress from the animals we all are when born, to civilized human beings. Then you, and other adults, will love being with and helping them. Other kids will love to play with them. Big benefits. My credentials: former licensed hairstylist in Indiana.
My parents sucked. they divorced when I was 7. I have a brother who is 3 years younger than me. when we were little, he'd spit on me, or claw me with his nails or hit me or whatever. My mom took the "survival of the fittest" approach. sometimes we'd fight right in front of her, and she'd do nothing. she figured the stronger one would win, and the situation would sort itself out. she didn't care who won. My dad, on the other hand, would yell at BOTH of us, regardless of who was the troublemaker. I guess he just expected me to let my brother victimize me. Once, when I was 13, I hit my brother in the nose and bloodied his nose. He said something that pissed me off, i can't remember what now (I'm 42). I'm happy I did that, it's not like either of my parents were gonna defend me.
I’m sorry this happened to you.
Sometimes we just have to defend ourselves! Good on you!
Good on you
My younger niece is 2.5. She's trying to do this to her older sister. Me and her grandmother always say to her to respond back to her sister or whomever else tries to attack her. But never hit first.
As a parent I've been around a lot of 2 year olds. When they bite, they are not usually showing us what's been done to them. That would mean that every 2 year old I've ever seen bite & hit -- and it's common behavior -- have been bitten & hit. Not the case. I don't think my friends & family who have occasionally violent 2 year olds are secret cannibals and child beaters. I know I'm not one. My kids did lots of violent stuff until, over time, we civilized them. Obviously a kid exposed to violence at age 2 could mimic it. What's important when looking at a 2 year isn't what they've been taught, it's what they haven't been taught. The folks who think it's all nurture and not nature tend to romanticize babies & youth -- they're so perfectly huggable! -- such that they refuse to believe they could do wrong. But, based on my observation, they do plenty of wrong naturally. They just don't know yet that it's wrong yet. Enter the parents (hopefully good ones).
It’s not necessarily that they’ve been being literally bitten and hit, but perhaps they’ve been shown aggression by parents or older siblings, or their emotional (or physical) needs have been ignored or rebuffed. They could be acting out the aggression they’ve already been shown - just in a way that’s accessible to them.
Here is advice from Jordan Peterson about raising children (the RUclips link to this lecture at the correct timecode is below):
"And now and then you know you read in the newspaper about someone who’s, you know, being pushed a little bit too far on some day that they’re unemployed and hungover and you know their relationship is just broken up and they do something absolutely brutal to their child and you think well “how could anyone do that” it’s like there’s a lot of history of terrible interactions between the mother and the child or the father and the child before something like that happens. So you know if you want to protect your child against the beast that’s inside you you might want to teach them to treat you with some respect so that you’re much more likely to be a civilized human being around them."
As parents we should teach children to walk on eggshells around us, or we might explode and release the beast inside of us? When someone is "brutal" to their child, the best way to protect the child is to make it the child's responsibility to treat the parent with respect? It's actually teaching people to traumatise their children. He is definitely not teaching people to heal their own childhood trauma. The fact that Jordan Peterson is taken so seriously by so many people really scares me.
(And if people want more context, well the entire lecture is in the same link and is nearly 2 hours long.)
ruclips.net/video/4tQOlQRp3gQ/видео.htmlh14m54s
Pordan Jeterson is bat guano. Says something about how sick a society is to elevate him for guidance/insight. He is the psychologist of neoliberlaism. Some health carers are acting out their own power trips and pharmacological, financial exploitation.
@@turquoiseafro1520
"He is the psychologist of neoliberlaism."
Can't disagree with that.
it shows how many people seek trauma because of their existing trauma... great...
The point about generational trauma is another reason for me to have no kids.
Thank you for having a genuine critique of JP that isn't a big dump on him and his entire existence. Too many people, even in this comment section, try to bury him in their own unresolved self-hate and mistrust. It's one thing to disagree with someone, but it's another to write paragraphs and make videos trying to discredit everything about him. I read this book when it came out and I found there was a lot of info that helped me and over time I've found my own critiques about him, and your video pointed out some important flaws that I wouldn't consider. Love your channel
Thinking is difficult that's why most people judge - Carl Young
I don’t have self hate or mistrust in myself, yet I recognize Jordan Peterson went from making motivational content to preaching purity culture, hating on single and childless women, and transgender people. You can see why people would be angry when someone claims they still preach about inspirational topics yet they hate on people.
I also find this rule troubling. You can control what your child does to a certain extent, but you cannot control who your child is.
Thanks you so much for your work Daniel, you are a wise and deeply compassionate man, truly an inspiration to me.
Excellent thoughts again!
I've been always deeply convinced that a child's behavior is the direct consquence of what they experience. A child is only capable of learning about themselves and the world through the adults' (parents') filter and mirroring (or lack of).
@@nikolas4347 I agree that genetics play an important role. However, many seemingly healthy families, with compassionate and 'nice' parents have toxic dynamics that are only known to or felt by the members. The child learns in sneaky ways that something is wrong about them (even more if there is some genetic issue envolved!) and will act out.
Well said @I’m watching. Children need wholesome family environment with healthy adults ( parents) until they develop a sense of right and wrong. Internalized traumas are always a presence in their family environment, but the challenge is we as human beings are a collection of our experiences and how does one break oneself apart from the experience - when they are not even aware of the damage it might have caused.
@@imwatching2960 no, genetics do not play an important role. That is a cop-out, a myth, a distraction and a fraud.
"The children's bad behavior is actually a reaction to a parental behavior."
This is exactly what the rule is speaking too.
Jordan Peterson's entire mantra is to take personal responsibility and not to cast your issues onto others(including children) to deal with.
See: "Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world."
Here's what I see you doing, which is perfectly good. I see you siding on the side of compassion, which is pretty likely seeing as you are trained as a therapist.
What do you do after the compassion though? You lead people toward action, right? You lead them to solutions, a way to move forward.
Coming from my own personal experience, I used to enjoy when people were compassionate to my woes, it felt good to be understood. But if that's all I ever got, I'd be an empathy seeking vampire.
"When children are acting out who are violent and mean[cic] they are expressing things about their homelife." I don't think JP would disagreee with you here, and this is exactly his point: if you are creating a bad influence, you are allowing your children(you are responsible), to do things that now(and later down the road) will make you dislike them(while still loving them).
I'd recommend you check out some videos of him explaining in person what he was talking about, as he can be a pretty harsh speaker in books to make his points be hard hitting (ie "Advice is what someone gives when they want you to shut up and go away... (he then goes into a comparison of advice and psychotherapy)).
Maybe yes, maybe not. I wish JP would respond directly. I've noticed that JP is a conformist in some big ways; some things you have heard can be further analyzed and nonconformist views should then prevail.
Thank you!
Having trauma as a child from my primary caregivers I cant tell you how much I appreciate you taking the arms in defence of the children
When I first watched some of Peterson's lectures I thought "This stuff is cool and interesting", but the more I watched the more they seemed trite when they weren't just plain wrong.
i agree.
@Xadion i agree. a very intelligent man, but i think he needs to resolve his own issues before giving advice to others.
Start from the point that Peterson is all about monetizing his "brand." Then, observe how he goes off on tangents that are hardly relevant to the subject at hand and struggle like hell to tie up the ends and make it all coherent. Observe his dedicated followers who will hang on his every word and give meaning to where there is little. Then read the 48 Laws Of Power for insights into what he does, and watch the great movie from 1979, "Being There", and you'll begin to get some clarity about Peterson.
Same happened to me, I started to feel something was wrong with him, like he is fighting to suppress something that is not able to face, at the same time he needs to construct a false image to support it.
How many psicologyst are really screw up!!!!
He exhibits the same authoritarian tendencies he so vigorously decries in the world around him.
I read alot of Alice Miller and I totally agree with you. I don't understand why others don't. It seems so obvious to me and it baffles me that there are so few out there who know about this. Even most therapist just don't get it, gaslight and harm you (the inner child) even more.
Alice Miller's work was a revelation to me. I can't believe it's not taught in the curriculum of every helping profession.
@Bonny D. Unfortunately she was not very self reflective. I still love her work. She did not resolve the issue of healing (like John Bradshaw) and transforming pain into power. Her strenght lied in articulating precisely the charges, analysing and formulating the accusation which is the first step to recocery. Unfortunately, her insight stopped after that.
@Bonny D. Whoah seriously??? Could you direct me to a book or somewhere I can learn more about that?
A cursory google shows that she supported a therapist called Stettbacher who was doing primal therapy, and molested his patients. But when she found out, she denounced him and distanced herself from primal therapy. Is that what you mean?
Absurd to believe that Jordan B Peterson doesn't know this. Do you know what areas he's researched on?
My 2 year old tried using violence, hitting and biting, and there was never any violence to her or around her. And I was with her 24/7 so I'm sure of that. She learned that being violent gets her a time-out and she stopped quickly. But I could definitely see a lack of punishment leading to a child using violence more and more, especially if it gets them what they want.
It turns out that there are a lot of unrelated reasons for children exhibit bad behaviour, and each kind calls for a different response. As usual, everyone is fighting over which oversimplification is correct.
Peterson said in one interview that 2 year olds are the most aggressive age group.
@@sc00f Yeah, I used to work in a daycare center. The 2 year old would hit each other and bite each other and it was a big problem.
@@MoralGovernment I wonder how much sense it makes biologically for a 2 year old to be away from her mother and how much of that is causing these.
@@Kvikveg7 She's now 6 and has never been away from me.
I realized this a while back. As a society parents get all the credit for a child's success but their failures are their own
Yes!!! JP is a danger for parenting advice.
You listen to Dan instead? His entire argument was just him saying he believes one branch of philosophy, but he doesn't seem to know it. It's all based on the idea that kids are good and parents corrupt them, which is about as ignorant a philosophical statement as you can make today. It literally means nothing but that there is some point in a humans life where they are some god like being of love and goodness. Why do monkey children act out when their parents dont show them how to? What evidence (since he seems to like evidence) shows that human infants are good and they only act bad out of external influence? Not only is there no evidence, there is no way to prove it.
Thank you so much for your videos. You are a breath of fresh air . Thank you for mentioning empathy. We live in a world full of “ experts”, and yet look at the state of the world...
Exactly, these so-called experts have no place telling us what's healthy and what isn't. The world would be better if they stepped down and took a good, hard look at their own childhoods.
Experts should be replaced by Inperts. (Had to make up this word)
@@annekegermers821 lol! That’s actually good, inperts - those who have done the inner work.
JP is very empathetic, watch more videos
Watching this 4 years later and JP’s credibility is at an all time low
I pass by every video of Jordan Peterson - and he has a lot of them! - because he completely creeps me out. That's enough information for me.
Rule #5 is very troubling indeed. I'm sure Jordan Peterson recognizes that many parents inherently dislike their children because they see themselves in them, and they don't like it. Many people hate themselves and don't even realize it.
What Peterson meant in Rule Number 5 is communicate your boundaries to your children. Don't let their behavior get so bad that you have to shout at them and punish them and get angry with them.
his fans make a lot of unfounded positive assumptions about what JP understands. It's cultish
When I came across Jordan Peterson on RUclips, I realized some of the things he preached made perfect sense but some of the things were quite disturbing.
The problem of having such a teacher is that he'll lead you astray and you'll not even know it.
I am a JP fan. I am by no means the best example. The reason I think he is legitimate is because he encourages people to listen. He encourages listening to your opponent’s argument. That to me shows his sincerety.
30 years ago I brought up my babies in the attachment style. They were wonderful toddlers. One tantrum each. That’s all. My son didn’t want leave the playground, and my daughter through the famous tantrum at the supermarket. They new mommy was there for them, but wouldn’t fall for the manipulation😂 They are wonderful loving independent adults. And my daughter just had a baby. She’s doing the same as I did.
Besides trauma (which is extremely extremely important) -but also the negative energy that children get from their parents, their indulgence, spoiling, praising, exalting their kids, making them feel entitled. I believe this is also a form of abuse. They are exalting but not loving. I am a teacher and sports coach, studied psychology and spirituality for over 40 years and I can tell you that Daniel is spot on about the unresolved traumas of parents and the damage that it causes children, I was a victim myself. I was physically and emotionally abused till age 15 (is when I was strong enough to fight back) by my older brother. My Dad was working a lot had anger issues of his own and my Mom who was home most of the time -didn't do anything to stop it and In fact she often got pissed and yelled at at me for over reacting and only on occasion yelled at both of us. My mom would say-" he's older than you- you have to listen to him '' I remeber saying to her ''can't you see what he's doing to me! -you mean to tell me you cant see that he is hitting me for no reason ! ---and you know what?--- she couldn't ! (Shocker right !)
I teach HS Health and this is some of the issues I talk about in class. They don't need to know about Freud and some cockamamie psychological theories that the HS Psychology classes teach-they need to know about what is happening to them now and what it means to love in a real way in a spiritual way ---thats all.
I'm getting that your mother was deprived of protection and care as a child.
To relieve her stress she accumulated decisions to suppress her actual experience.
The result is that she doesn't see or experience what-is-happening rather she experiences the concepts/illusions she created.
The concepts/illusions are what she needed to see and believe to feel safe and secure in social conditions that were not providing safety and security.
Dude you are insanely intelligent thank you so much for making this critique! It was articulated extremely well ; it didn’t come off as trying to attack Jordan but instead, you brought up questionable things he said. I’ve found Jordan to have a cult following where there’s a confirmation bias in anything that he says. Good on you for being able to critically think about his views!
Daniel makes some absurd claims of what he thinks JBP thinks.
Apparently JBP thinks children/people are 100% result of biology and no amount of nurture affects the behaviour.
Characterises JBP as someone who enjoys meting out pain to his own children.
Daniel also thinks that if a child has negative emotion manifest as a tantrum it's probably the parents' abuse of their authority, often unconsciously driven by past parental abuse.
He doesn't say that at all. What he says is that sometimes it's the case that a negative emotion manifest is due to some kind of trauma which (in my opinion) is more common than we like to think about and cannot be dealt with by a blanket 'rule' of how parents should deal with children. This is misguided and therefore sometimes potentially very harmful and wrong. It does seem that JP, although right in some areas, sets himself up as an authority on almost every aspect of human life and society. Anyone who writes a book such as this will inevitably find many, many others who know much more on numerous topics and have more knowledgeable and valid opinions. I've found anyone who claims to know so much about so many different fields of expertise is by definition wrong on many of them. University professors are usually experts in one, or maximum two areas.
@@jameswhite7997 "sets himself up as an authority" Ok? Have you read the book?
I think this dude should forget about Peterson's book and watch a few of his videos on youtube.
Peterson gave me something to think about a little while back which Daniel might wish to note. Peterson stated that by the age of four years old, if that child needs therapy after that...IT'S TOO LATE.
I watched a child go through this...Peterson was accurate. That child is walking into playgrounds and punching girls already....and nobody can stop him.
I worked in Youth Club work and banned a kid once for bringing a barrel of cider into the club. He was being given it by his Grandfather(who ran a bar)Two weeks later the kid was pissed up and got run over on his push-bike..one year later he robbed an elderly woman and stabbed her.
@@Rellikan Well have you ever listened to JBP answer a question? Seldom is the case when he doesn't immediately have the 'correct answer', regardless of the topic. He's great, of course, but... just sayin'
Really enjoyed listening to this analysis.
I'm wondering if the myriad of chronic illness's of Jordan Peterson's daughter are related to nature or nurture?
The book, "The body keeps the score" makes me question my own chronic illness.
Alice Miller's books opened my eyes to this connection. I've realised that whenever I leave home, town and especially this country (Poland) I'm getting MUCH better health wise. I can eat things I normally cannot even touch, I start putting on healthy weight (I'm very skinny) and I don't vomit and don't get so many migraines as I get at home.
Please look into something called tms if you are interested in this connection.. personally it helped me enormously and healed me with a crazy nerve pain.. I would start with googling tms wiki , curable app, dr howard schubiner and his book online, sirpa in the uk and many other books and resources.. theres also a documentary "this might hurt"
Yep, and Jordan’s autoimmune illness as well, definitely nurture. Gabor Maté has a short series of tweets about this that I recommend checking out. He talks about how Petersons “choked rage” belies an emotional repression owing to his own early trauma, which is what has caused his in his words “rather intractable” autoimmune illness. Definitely check out Gabor Mates book When the Body Says No: Exploring the Stress-Disease Connection, if you haven’t already.
@@penyarol83Wow, I just wrote that he’s choking on rage. What a synchronicity.
Just look at the ACE studies done by Kaiser permanente. Trauma is at the root of what we currently call mental illness, and chronic illness too
"Met" JP through the Jungian series of lectures he posted on RUclips. The series I was fascinated by was the one wherein he pretty much interpreted the bible in Jungian terms -- something I'd been longing to see for decades. Loved it. Despite JP's personality (sometimes derisive and angry) I never felt like I was required to agree with everything he thought or said. I watched a few interviews with feminists after he got in trouble with them and it seemed obvious to me that he was talking Jungian while they were talking something else and misunderstandings obviously resulted. That sais, he clearly doesn't "get" how angry women are about 6,000 years of oppression.
Then, he had his serious benzo crash that really ruined his life. I was surprised that he didn't know how dangerous these chemicals were and how many people had been crippled by them. But, apparently he was just trusting the docs that prescribed them. That was disappointing. Now, he seems to have gone off the tracks in the big way -- just a terrible train wreck. It's sad.
Thank you so much for pointing out the horrendous continuation of "poisonous pedagogy" (Alice Miller) in this chapter by Jordan Peterson. I knew of him and watched him a little bit, had mixed feelings because of a certain slickness and intellectual arrogance, did not follow up further. And if I had stumbled upon this chapter, I would have just been as horrified. So often when we look under the surface of seemingly intelligent minds we find exactly this: no empathy, no serious confrontation with your own childhood experiences, let alone therapy to deal with those and their after-effects. And this is a psychologist? I know you consider Alice Miller one of the best, and so do I (in spite of the revelations thanks to her son's report), all throughout her life she tirelessly wrote and lectured as an advocat for children. She is looked upon as "outdated" by many (as I found out to my dismay), but listening to this she is still the pioneer she always was. Poisonous pedagogy is coming back in many ways, books, films, the media, as if we are heading back into the dark ages. Thanks for being so passionate about this topic, for the sake of the children, and all of us, actually.
Alice Miller is a godd*mn genius. No one criticizing her can hold a candle to her. I appreciate Daniel but wish he wouldn’t try to “critique” her, as the world needs to hear and understand her genius first, if we are to have any hope of saving ourselves. I appreciate Daniel, but he is no Alice Miller.
Hmm her son Martin Miller was do abused by his mom Alice Miller, read his book
I loooooove this video! I came upon Jordan's videos last year and some were really interesting and useful but some of his ideas always rubbed me the wrong way. Anyways, the hierarchy of the family and how it is well setup for parents passing down traumas to their children reminded me of the army. Have you ever thought about the pathology of army hierarchy and its culture of physical and psychological abuse towards lower ranks from upper ranks? Would love to heard you talk about this.
Hey, I know nothing about the army but I'm very interested to hear about the dynamic you speak of. I see your comment is from 3 years ago, so probably unlikely haha.
@@paingoingcrazy6997 Well, at least here in brazil it is very common knowledge about the bullying new recruits suffer and is accepted as "just the way things are" (much like how parents have a pass to mistreat their kids), some kind of macho culture branching in which you are supposed to take abuse without complaining or you are not man enough. This is a system that rewards oppression since the recruits consolation is that next year they will be the ones bullying the new recruits, and so on. Every higher raking officer is expected to have his whims attended by the recruits, like having their boots shined and bed made by someone. Harsh "disciplining" punishing the whole squad with overwork because someone didn't do their bed properly, petty shit like that.
@@keixoun I see.. Maybe the abuse makes the army men angrier and ready to unleash their anger on their enemies,.. Makes me wonder how many families force their kids to do those things. Make the younger sibling clean after the older sibling.. And the younger gets consolation from knowing he can one day pass down the abuse to some other innocent kid at school. Awful.
@@paingoingcrazy6997 yep cuz that’s exactly what we need in the world, right... more anger and violence.
🤦🏻♀️ We are a lost culture.
I spent 18 months in the army because it was obligatory to the young men at that time in my country. The army is one of the most pathological institutions ever created to exploit, humiliate and subdue the young men to shouting idiots calling themselves officers. There is no place for such institution in a civilized society.
Sadly civilization hasn't happened yet to humanity; we are still living in dark ages.
I think the best defense to rule #5 is that his point was to not let yourself have any legitimate excuse to hate your kids, as it can be a problem if one is authentic here (and a problem if one isn't authentic of course).
I will say I think the analysis done here is amazing, superior, and more in-depth.
There are bad ways of enacting rule #5, is one thing I get from this video.
I can think of many things to describe Mr. Peterson but extremely precise in his language is not one of them 😂
He is precise in order to win/not lose a debate, but not in communicating or effectively sharing ideas…
Bandura’s bobo doll experiment... when children see aggression they will tend to repeat behavior. This can be by strangers, families, friends, neighbors, tv, etc. Thanks for sharing your perspective, this is a topic people tend to be unwilling to discuss.
Honestly, thank you for the clear Analysis. I've been watching a lot of his stuff because I couldn't put my finger on what bothers me about him. He clearly is intelligent and I'm sure he means well and wants to help people, but some statements and positions leave a weird feeling
I would argue that he probably doesn't mean well, and he's trying to shape the world around him into the unhealthy system which he himself grew up in. It looks like he means well because our society already believes what he says about children to be true.
@@paingoingcrazy6997 Agreed. I do not think he means well.
@@julieanne190 i would say he 100% means well. He has deep moral convictions and wants to see the world become a better place. Regardless of any of his opinions and arguments, the man has a good soul, I can promise you that.
@@jamesrutterford576 You can promise that, but it doesn't mean anything beyond your own trust in him. I have watched hours and hours of video with Jordan Peterson in different venues - classroom lectures, lectures to large audiences, debates, interviews, discussion panels, etc. You believe that he means well and has a good soul. You can't prove it. I can't prove he doesn't, but there are red flags all over the place in his content, his facial expressions, his tone, his body language, and more. I believe there is a deep foundation in him of anger and contempt. I also believe there is heavy manipulation. Don't forget that he is a behavioral psychologist and his training and experience would give him expertise in just how to do that if he wanted to do it. That stands in contrast to the many things he think he is qualified to speak on that he is not qualified to speak on. People should be suspicious just how often he gets caught on video crying and trembling. That's not normal. I'm not saying it's bad to be moved or to cry, but if you watch enough it becomes suspicious how much it happens on video and how deeply it moves people to believe he is a deep soul, who suffers pain to help people, who is just such a wonderful man. I believe he is mentally unstable and projects a lot of what is going on inside him onto his "enemies." Also keep in mind that this is a very lucrative schtick he has going. He isn't doing this for free.
@@julieanne190 I just wanted to say that I agree with you about JP, I also believe he is an emotionally unstable person. I would say that if he lacks empathy and experiences chronic depression he is likely to have a narcissistic personality disorder. Which in turn means that he might have a hidden agenda of control over people and his own profit. He might have some goodness left in him but his ego has clearly taken over his life and he can definitely damage lives of other people along the way.
I can tell you easily why Peterson said the thing about parents regulating their kids behavior. He though about everything you said, mostly about the history of human childhood and he is presenting an antidote to the false promise of optimism, where you think that having an opportunity to exempt your child from parent-induced trauma is equal to a better outcome.
You would have to think about how that's achieved. Do you think there's anyone in this world better suited to raise a child besides the average well-meaning biological parent? Have you looked into how child abuse skyrockets when the caregivers are not the progenitors?
Also, have you no appreciation for the stability and steady advancement the nuclear family has provided through history?
Obviously every child will be abused from every possible angle, that's the beauty in Peterson's perspective, he always acknowledges the demons. That's what makes him so effective.
There is nothing worse than a psychotherapist that uses idealism to create expectations in their patients.
Jordan Peterson really really gives me the creeps. He reminds me of my father, a charismatic academic, falsely modest, a communal narcissist, and an abusive parent.
Yeah .. I would say that about sums it up!
This guy is the most underrated Genius.
Jordan Peterson's work has helped me a lot (*in general*) in the past 6 years, but since I refuse to let my brain go sideways, and having been in so described around 14:50, I am so glad to hear literally all the questioning I had upfront from someone else... That's very interesting.
ID ABSOLUTELY LOVE to listen to both them on a podcast, but it should have at least 3h!!!! ❤
In a polarised world we live in, this is virtue.