I'm queer and a quilter. I know about the AIDS quilt but not the full history of it - the meaning behind the size of each panel is so impactful, wow! I hope I can see some of the quilt in person some day. It's such a privilege to be able to listen to this conversation & learn from it, thank you
I remember when so many people vanished without warning. Sometimes families would appear out of nowhere and take their sons home or what have you, and either with malice or ignorance not talk to friends and their families of choice. So we'd have a break in the stories of people and just "and then he was gone and we assume he died". One of the reflexes of the day was greeting people after an unintended absence with "oh, hey! you're alive!" because.. honestly you wouldn't know. Re: romanticizing certain parts of this history. From all the times I've sat down and talked history with people is trying to balance things. Too many who have no experience with that time think the times were pure horror and grief. And I've even had people try to comfort me on being unable to have known joy. I try to use the metaphor of war. We partied in bomb shelters, waiting for them to end. Then go out, bury the dead, cry and try to stack brick on brick and put things together again. It was mixed. I remember doing things... harder. Lived harder. Grieved harder. It was a kind of... living under pressure that results in all kinds of reactions. I distinctly remember thinking at several points that I had no idea if or when I'd die, so LIVE in every single way. I think it's why I have this weird internal balance of ALL the emotions need to be lived through. I ugly cried in the moment and I fell in love at the drop of a hat.
Gotta comment for the algorithm. This was so good. As one of those damn young people, I could’ve listened to this for easily twice as long. Really appreciate this channel.
I remember the first time I heard about the AIDS memorial quilt. It gave me goosebumps just reading about but especially looking at the images of the quilt. They don't teach about the quilt or the epidemic in school, unfortunately, but I was a senior in high school and the final for my American history class was to choose a topic from the pre-determined pool, one of the overall topics was epidemics/diseases. Under the topic you could've done the current event of covid (I graduated in 2022, I'm 18) or HIV/AIDS. I knew it was the closest topic I would be allowed to do to what I really wanted to do my final on- queer rights. I chose the topic and became obsessed with learning the history of our community that I'd never know. I told all my queer friends about what I was learning. I bought books, I researched old news clips and newspaper stories, I tried to find first hand accounts, I listened to interviews, etc. I am so amazed by what that generation of the queer community survived, not only at the hands of this disease but socially and legally too. Thank you for this epidsode, it expands my knowledge and understanding even more.
As a young person (21) this was so insightful, and I am so grateful I was able to find this honestly. I have so many thoughts, and so many things you all shared were so informative. We are not given any education on this stuff at all, and I think there is a bit of a weird gap right now where there is a lot of talk online in these sanitized spaces, but there are no places, as gayborhoods start dissapearing, for us to talk candidly about our experiences just as Gay (/queer) people. My hope, as I have seen more Gen Z become apart of the conversation, is that more of us try to find that community and stand together to fight the injustices in a way that does get us more freedoms and in a way the includes everyone (without it turning into an identity politics situations because there is some critiques about how individualistic it can be) including our elders because you all are what got us to this point in the first place. It is a crazy time to be queer because we are the free-est we have ever been and yet it is still so isolating. I am very grateful to see you all have this discussion because the stigma around elders is so prominent, the "wagging your guys' finger" stuff is a fear for many queer people and you guys were honestly so respectful and stern when you needed to be and even when you all were saying "these young people don't know how they have it now a days" it was not rude it was true! I really hope these conversations are had more often, because even when LGBTQ+ history reaches our textbooks it will be the most simple, safe, and noninformative thing we will ever read. Oral history is so important especially from you all. I could go on but I already feel like this reads as nonsense, but thank you again. :)
Thank you for documenting these stories. As a 30-something I was never taught the extent of the crisis. Even after I learned about it, it wasn't until I saw "How to Survive a Plague" that I began to understand the cruelty and inaction of the government and healthcare community. Even then, I didn't really understand why the AIDS quilt had the impact it did until I saw the DC installation recreated on Pose. I still have *so* much left to learn, and it is a privilege to hear from the people who lived it. Thank you for sharing.
I was in tears almost entirely from start to finish while watching this episode. I could listen to Cleve talk about our history and his own experiences for hours and hours. I'm a young queer, and I've always been in love with history and with learning about it, but I've become especially obsessed lately with it these past several months after having seen the writing on the walls about our civil rights and how they are being watered down or stripped away. It's definitely led to some romantisization and idealization of our history, having not lived through the epidemic. Everyone was so pissed off and so organized. It seemed like we were linked so closely. You see old photographs from then and even prior to the 80s that show us being so close, physically and spiritually and emotionally, and now with social media censorship and gas prices and loitering laws, the community feels so distant and fractured. We've been forced apart due to so many conflicting factors, even from WITHIN our community. None of us were taught how to speak publicly, to each other, how to form bonds and make close friends, we're having to learn to be together before we are able to fight for each other against everyone else. Our society is permeated from the inside out and outside in with puritanical drivel that sanitizes our histories and gets rid of our elders, and I don't just mean those alive today, I also mean those of us over the millennia of history. We need togetherness so much, and we only see that in the past, from our successes. We'll get together properly and do our best battles soon though, I can feel it coming. We're reaching another tipping point in history. I absolutely love this episode and I'll have to rewatch it a couple of times just to really make it all stick. Hope you're all doing well, gents. ❤️
I'm a young guy from SF, born and raised. I was in the Castro a few weeks ago and saw Cleve Jones walk by, and man I felt like I had been blessed. But sadly the average person my age does not know the AIDs quilt, or even Harvey Milk! I love history and think it is very important to share and have young people know more of, and I wish we would not write off all of the past as being the past and wrong with nothing to learn from. To progress to a better future we must know about our past. And the way that older folks are immediately seen as inherently bigoted because of their age when folks like Cleve were dedicated to activism just makes me sad. Thanks for the episode!
How wonderful to see Cleave. He was one of my heros during the epidemic. I was a nurse, and cared for so many who died then watched all my chosen family die. Although I worked myself to the bone, I still worked myself into PTSD. I was always believing I wasn't doing enough. I look at Cleave and he seems to stoic, so of course he's my hero. You talked so much about that time, even mentioning the murders. I could go on and on. Kristopher, I loved your story about losing your friend and it touched me deeply. What you guys are doing is just incredible, I love it so much. Thank you again. I love you all so much.
This series has illuminated to me my ignorance of LGBT history. I feel like I've been missing something, and I guess I've discovered its things like this. I've only ever heard of the negatives of the HIV crisis, but nothing about how communities had the strength and resolve to create and share some of the most impactful art, as a healing process too. Thank you all so much for sharing these talks. Its really enhanced my living perspective for the better.
I came of age and come out in the mid-to-late 70’s just before the AIDS epidemic. The episode reminded me of many things that I have forgotten and sometimes don’t want to think about. But we cannot forget. Thank you Cleve Jones for your participation in this episode. Thank you On Guard for putting this together!!! I’m loving the fireside chats. Please carry on.
I was born and raised in Portland, Oregon which was pretty cool. Then I graduated at the class of 2002. I was really fortunate to every year until my freshman year in high school to see part of the AIDS quilt and we got some amazing speakers and what not. I'm very thankful for that experience
Any quilt is such a comforting object, warm and soft and loved and brimming with care and history. It’s a beautiful way to remember the loved ones lost to AIDS. Thank you for this episode and for this channel. (One comment this time that will stay with me is how damned introspective the young’uns are. Soooo self-aware, self-centered, self-conscious! How do they stand it?) Peace from Ohio …
Thank you so much for this episode. It covers such a range of emotions, and fascinating, sad, and scary topics. There are so many fundamental issues that need to be addressed. As Cleve said, how do we get the disparate, individualistic groups that we are part of to start working together and learn to make compromises in order to reach a common goal
As a young person in social justic I will admit to falling for the non profit trope of joining an orginization that stated it's usefulness only to learn through experiance that they were a tool for the rich to make themselves feel better. As Clive said I missed the need for solidarity thinking that these nonprofits with money and resources would do a better job. But there is so much red tape they can't actually make substantial change.
Been watching this episode for a few days, having to stop every so often to have a cry. Like many others have mentioned this is such an important show, thank you so much for organizing it. Much love!
What a combination of first hand experience and perspective on the tragedy and the smarts to think up this way to convey it to the world, and technical expertise to pull it off. Cleve is a very special person. I'm glad we didn't lose you back then, Cleve.
Thank you for keeping history alive! Cleve is a smart guy. The way you connect with people is not to yell at them for not being like you, it's to ask them about themselves and to offer yourself. I think On Guard does this well
Good interview. I remember well, I'm in my 60's and it was horrifying. Lost two, straight married to each other, relatives in '92/'94. (RIP🙏🙏) They suffered with so many conditions, cancer lesions, thrush, temps, stomache issues, one after the other, and no meds yet, it was traumatizing. They left young children behind. They didn't want to die. But so many were dying in many different communities. I'm disappointed that young Americans are not protecting their lives as they should.😪
an entire pridemonth and Easter was Trans day. There 85 days in American government has dedicated to some sort of LGBTQ cause or celebration. The fight is over. You won.
Thank you for this interview! All your episodes are beautiful, fun and educational. This one is very special for having Cleve Jones sharing the history of our community and his life and work. The recent events that are threatening our freedom show that the fight is ongoing, and now that we're facing another battle, knowing our history has become even more important for us to take these threats seriously, and hopefully avoid worst outcomes.
I just have to say that this episode is so moving, activating and engaging. I am fired up in such an angry way of what has been going on, what is going on, and what is on the way to come for the queer trans community. I am 27. I’m a young recently out as pan person (she/her). I am so thankful people like y’all having THE conversation. I was also able to meet Mr. Kristofer and Amp SF pride this year and it was my first pride. So thank you thank you thank you for doing what you’re doing not only on this channel or Watts the Safeword but in the community for so many years. PS. I LOVE how all the daddy’s are listening to Cleve like such good boys. 🥰😂
The gayborhoods are going away… I think a lot due to the cost of living. Most of these gayborhoods in decline are in expensive downtown areas that many can’t afford to either live in or travel to. In Seattle, where I live, parking is being taken away, and where there is parking the rates are extreme. For a long time, these areas were more accessible financially than they are today. Anyhow, just thought that might be some context worth adding to that part of the discussion in this episode.
Yes economics is always a factor - but so is gay gentrification. Without gayberhoods we lose vital representation when laws are passed that effect us all.
Something I have been thinking about recently is how much 'activism' to young people is just posting about issues on social media. Reposting news links or Instagram infographics about an issue is what constitutes as activism now. Yes spreading awareness of an issue is important, but that alone does not fix real material problems. All we're doing is having endless discussions about issues while doing nothing to actually fix them. We whine about XYZ policy not being good enough, but what are we doing to fix an issue other than whining on Twitter about it?
exactly - sharing the issues via social media usually is just preaching to the converted - we need to step away from the devices and organize in person again.
I think some of it comes from being unable to be there in person or having the money to donate. How does someone who sees the injustice happening in another country help? It likely doesn't affect us (yet) and if we protest here, we get ridiculed for protesting for something that doesn't affect our country. (though less ridicule than anti-vax)
I really love the series. However, could you start a crowdsourcing campaign to have a bit better AV equipment? Definitely would chip in. It would make it much more accessible for someone whose native language is not English.
I'm curious on what you think the leather community can do to support the trans community in light of all of the recent bills against gender affirming care
I need to learn how to quilt.
Same. Ive kinda always mean to learn
I'm queer and a quilter. I know about the AIDS quilt but not the full history of it - the meaning behind the size of each panel is so impactful, wow! I hope I can see some of the quilt in person some day. It's such a privilege to be able to listen to this conversation & learn from it, thank you
I remember when so many people vanished without warning. Sometimes families would appear out of nowhere and take their sons home or what have you, and either with malice or ignorance not talk to friends and their families of choice. So we'd have a break in the stories of people and just "and then he was gone and we assume he died".
One of the reflexes of the day was greeting people after an unintended absence with "oh, hey! you're alive!" because.. honestly you wouldn't know.
Re: romanticizing certain parts of this history. From all the times I've sat down and talked history with people is trying to balance things. Too many who have no experience with that time think the times were pure horror and grief. And I've even had people try to comfort me on being unable to have known joy. I try to use the metaphor of war. We partied in bomb shelters, waiting for them to end. Then go out, bury the dead, cry and try to stack brick on brick and put things together again. It was mixed. I remember doing things... harder. Lived harder. Grieved harder. It was a kind of... living under pressure that results in all kinds of reactions. I distinctly remember thinking at several points that I had no idea if or when I'd die, so LIVE in every single way.
I think it's why I have this weird internal balance of ALL the emotions need to be lived through. I ugly cried in the moment and I fell in love at the drop of a hat.
Gotta comment for the algorithm. This was so good. As one of those damn young people, I could’ve listened to this for easily twice as long. Really appreciate this channel.
I remember the first time I heard about the AIDS memorial quilt. It gave me goosebumps just reading about but especially looking at the images of the quilt. They don't teach about the quilt or the epidemic in school, unfortunately, but I was a senior in high school and the final for my American history class was to choose a topic from the pre-determined pool, one of the overall topics was epidemics/diseases. Under the topic you could've done the current event of covid (I graduated in 2022, I'm 18) or HIV/AIDS. I knew it was the closest topic I would be allowed to do to what I really wanted to do my final on- queer rights. I chose the topic and became obsessed with learning the history of our community that I'd never know. I told all my queer friends about what I was learning. I bought books, I researched old news clips and newspaper stories, I tried to find first hand accounts, I listened to interviews, etc. I am so amazed by what that generation of the queer community survived, not only at the hands of this disease but socially and legally too. Thank you for this epidsode, it expands my knowledge and understanding even more.
Thank you Spencer
Beautiful! Thank you for being CURIOUS because thats how we create cohesiveness....We need you around. ❤
I had to come back to this episode because I finally bought and read "When We Rise" by Cleve Jones and every word was incredible. Truly.
As a young person (21) this was so insightful, and I am so grateful I was able to find this honestly. I have so many thoughts, and so many things you all shared were so informative. We are not given any education on this stuff at all, and I think there is a bit of a weird gap right now where there is a lot of talk online in these sanitized spaces, but there are no places, as gayborhoods start dissapearing, for us to talk candidly about our experiences just as Gay (/queer) people. My hope, as I have seen more Gen Z become apart of the conversation, is that more of us try to find that community and stand together to fight the injustices in a way that does get us more freedoms and in a way the includes everyone (without it turning into an identity politics situations because there is some critiques about how individualistic it can be) including our elders because you all are what got us to this point in the first place. It is a crazy time to be queer because we are the free-est we have ever been and yet it is still so isolating. I am very grateful to see you all have this discussion because the stigma around elders is so prominent, the "wagging your guys' finger" stuff is a fear for many queer people and you guys were honestly so respectful and stern when you needed to be and even when you all were saying "these young people don't know how they have it now a days" it was not rude it was true! I really hope these conversations are had more often, because even when LGBTQ+ history reaches our textbooks it will be the most simple, safe, and noninformative thing we will ever read. Oral history is so important especially from you all. I could go on but I already feel like this reads as nonsense, but thank you again. :)
Thank you for documenting these stories. As a 30-something I was never taught the extent of the crisis. Even after I learned about it, it wasn't until I saw "How to Survive a Plague" that I began to understand the cruelty and inaction of the government and healthcare community. Even then, I didn't really understand why the AIDS quilt had the impact it did until I saw the DC installation recreated on Pose. I still have *so* much left to learn, and it is a privilege to hear from the people who lived it. Thank you for sharing.
Just saw this posted, and wanted to thank you for covering this topic.
I was in tears almost entirely from start to finish while watching this episode. I could listen to Cleve talk about our history and his own experiences for hours and hours. I'm a young queer, and I've always been in love with history and with learning about it, but I've become especially obsessed lately with it these past several months after having seen the writing on the walls about our civil rights and how they are being watered down or stripped away. It's definitely led to some romantisization and idealization of our history, having not lived through the epidemic. Everyone was so pissed off and so organized. It seemed like we were linked so closely. You see old photographs from then and even prior to the 80s that show us being so close, physically and spiritually and emotionally, and now with social media censorship and gas prices and loitering laws, the community feels so distant and fractured. We've been forced apart due to so many conflicting factors, even from WITHIN our community. None of us were taught how to speak publicly, to each other, how to form bonds and make close friends, we're having to learn to be together before we are able to fight for each other against everyone else. Our society is permeated from the inside out and outside in with puritanical drivel that sanitizes our histories and gets rid of our elders, and I don't just mean those alive today, I also mean those of us over the millennia of history. We need togetherness so much, and we only see that in the past, from our successes. We'll get together properly and do our best battles soon though, I can feel it coming. We're reaching another tipping point in history. I absolutely love this episode and I'll have to rewatch it a couple of times just to really make it all stick. Hope you're all doing well, gents. ❤️
I'm a young guy from SF, born and raised. I was in the Castro a few weeks ago and saw Cleve Jones walk by, and man I felt like I had been blessed. But sadly the average person my age does not know the AIDs quilt, or even Harvey Milk! I love history and think it is very important to share and have young people know more of, and I wish we would not write off all of the past as being the past and wrong with nothing to learn from. To progress to a better future we must know about our past. And the way that older folks are immediately seen as inherently bigoted because of their age when folks like Cleve were dedicated to activism just makes me sad. Thanks for the episode!
How wonderful to see Cleave. He was one of my heros during the epidemic. I was a nurse, and cared for so many who died then watched all my chosen family die. Although I worked myself to the bone, I still worked myself into PTSD. I was always believing I wasn't doing enough. I look at Cleave and he seems to stoic, so of course he's my hero. You talked so much about that time, even mentioning the murders. I could go on and on. Kristopher, I loved your story about losing your friend and it touched me deeply. What you guys are doing is just incredible, I love it so much. Thank you again. I love you all so much.
I am so glad I learned about this quilt because of all of you! I hope to be able to see it one day. Love this channel, love all of you guys.
This series has illuminated to me my ignorance of LGBT history.
I feel like I've been missing something, and I guess I've discovered its things like this. I've only ever heard of the negatives of the HIV crisis, but nothing about how communities had the strength and resolve to create and share some of the most impactful art, as a healing process too.
Thank you all so much for sharing these talks. Its really enhanced my living perspective for the better.
Wonderful interview.
I came of age and come out in the mid-to-late 70’s just before the AIDS epidemic. The episode reminded me of many things that I have forgotten and sometimes don’t want to think about. But we cannot forget. Thank you Cleve Jones for your participation in this episode. Thank you On Guard for putting this together!!! I’m loving the fireside chats. Please carry on.
I was born and raised in Portland, Oregon which was pretty cool. Then I graduated at the class of 2002. I was really fortunate to every year until my freshman year in high school to see part of the AIDS quilt and we got some amazing speakers and what not. I'm very thankful for that experience
Any quilt is such a comforting object, warm and soft and loved and brimming with care and history. It’s a beautiful way to remember the loved ones lost to AIDS. Thank you for this episode and for this channel. (One comment this time that will stay with me is how damned introspective the young’uns are. Soooo self-aware, self-centered, self-conscious! How do they stand it?) Peace from Ohio …
This episode, and the series as a whole, is an absolute gift. Thank you for sharing your stories and recording them for us. ❤️
Thank you so much for this episode. It covers such a range of emotions, and fascinating, sad, and scary topics. There are so many fundamental issues that need to be addressed. As Cleve said, how do we get the disparate, individualistic groups that we are part of to start working together and learn to make compromises in order to reach a common goal
This is so important, thank you so much for sharing this.
As a young person in social justic I will admit to falling for the non profit trope of joining an orginization that stated it's usefulness only to learn through experiance that they were a tool for the rich to make themselves feel better.
As Clive said I missed the need for solidarity thinking that these nonprofits with money and resources would do a better job. But there is so much red tape they can't actually make substantial change.
Been watching this episode for a few days, having to stop every so often to have a cry. Like many others have mentioned this is such an important show, thank you so much for organizing it. Much love!
What a combination of first hand experience and perspective on the tragedy and the smarts to think up this way to convey it to the world, and technical expertise to pull it off. Cleve is a very special person. I'm glad we didn't lose you back then, Cleve.
If saying something might get you into trouble then it probably needs to be said! I support Cleve's concerns.
Thank you for keeping history alive!
Cleve is a smart guy. The way you connect with people is not to yell at them for not being like you, it's to ask them about themselves and to offer yourself. I think On Guard does this well
exactly - and that's what this show is all about.
Good interview. I remember well, I'm in my 60's and it was horrifying. Lost two, straight married to each other, relatives in '92/'94. (RIP🙏🙏) They suffered with so many conditions, cancer lesions, thrush, temps, stomache issues, one after the other, and no meds yet, it was traumatizing. They left young children behind. They didn't want to die. But so many were dying in many different communities. I'm disappointed that young Americans are not protecting their lives as they should.😪
We have a big fight coming up for our rights. I hope our community can come together to fight together.
an entire pridemonth and Easter was Trans day. There 85 days in American government has dedicated to some sort of LGBTQ cause or celebration. The fight is over. You won.
Thank you for this interview! All your episodes are beautiful, fun and educational. This one is very special for having Cleve Jones sharing the history of our community and his life and work. The recent events that are threatening our freedom show that the fight is ongoing, and now that we're facing another battle, knowing our history has become even more important for us to take these threats seriously, and hopefully avoid worst outcomes.
Thank you Cleve! Thank you to everyone on the panel. 🎉❤
I just have to say that this episode is so moving, activating and engaging. I am fired up in such an angry way of what has been going on, what is going on, and what is on the way to come for the queer trans community. I am 27. I’m a young recently out as pan person (she/her). I am so thankful people like y’all having THE conversation.
I was also able to meet Mr. Kristofer and Amp SF pride this year and it was my first pride. So thank you thank you thank you for doing what you’re doing not only on this channel or Watts the Safeword but in the community for so many years.
PS.
I LOVE how all the daddy’s are listening to Cleve like such good boys. 🥰😂
The gayborhoods are going away… I think a lot due to the cost of living. Most of these gayborhoods in decline are in expensive downtown areas that many can’t afford to either live in or travel to.
In Seattle, where I live, parking is being taken away, and where there is parking the rates are extreme.
For a long time, these areas were more accessible financially than they are today.
Anyhow, just thought that might be some context worth adding to that part of the discussion in this episode.
Yes economics is always a factor - but so is gay gentrification. Without gayberhoods we lose vital representation when laws are passed that effect us all.
@@OnGuardCigarSalon oh absolutely… no argument there; just felt that adding to the context 😉
Really enjoy these episodes. Very interesting and insightful
I started watching this series in sequence about 10 days ago, this is the best episode so far. So much important content here. Thank-you!!
I'm just glad to hear this.
Great interview. Thank you for sharing this.
Gods and little fish this video brought back a rush of memories.
This was the best episode yet
fabulous episode! What a gift of lgbt history!
Something I have been thinking about recently is how much 'activism' to young people is just posting about issues on social media. Reposting news links or Instagram infographics about an issue is what constitutes as activism now. Yes spreading awareness of an issue is important, but that alone does not fix real material problems. All we're doing is having endless discussions about issues while doing nothing to actually fix them. We whine about XYZ policy not being good enough, but what are we doing to fix an issue other than whining on Twitter about it?
exactly - sharing the issues via social media usually is just preaching to the converted - we need to step away from the devices and organize in person again.
I think some of it comes from being unable to be there in person or having the money to donate.
How does someone who sees the injustice happening in another country help? It likely doesn't affect us (yet) and if we protest here, we get ridiculed for protesting for something that doesn't affect our country. (though less ridicule than anti-vax)
I really love the series. However, could you start a crowdsourcing campaign to have a bit better AV equipment? Definitely would chip in. It would make it much more accessible for someone whose native language is not English.
Great - feel free to support us by buying our merch at OnGuardGear.com
@@OnGuardCigarSalon Would subbing to the Watts the Safeword patreon also help in this particular area? 👀
Great episode as always
Difficult to watch this podcast. Too many memories
It is hard, but I have so much respect for these guys.
Christ! Where are my tissues?
right!?!
I'm curious on what you think the leather community can do to support the trans community in light of all of the recent bills against gender affirming care
We will cover that.