📌 Hi everyone! The program code for Cronos Control is now available for download - link in the video description. You’ll also find all the component links there. I’m still refining the 3D model to make control as smooth and comfortable as possible. It will be available for a small fee after the Kickstarter campaign ends on November 26. The campaign launches on November 5 - reserve your 3D model at the early bird price and support the project www.kickstarter.com/projects/diy-yari/cronos-control-ergonomic-controller-for-precision-and-comfort! 🚀
I appreciate the work, but I think switching from the absolute motion of a mouse to the relative motion of a joystick misses the point of a mouse to many of us.
I don't know, I used to enjoy the little red joystick on the laptop quite a lot, I'm sure I'd get used to this in no time. I'd be interested in buying if it was for sale. Long days with 3d work really wreaks my wrist, even with a vertical mouse I like.
Never used the little keyboard pointer on Thinkpads? You can't really game with them but they work fine for desktop use. More motivation to learn keyboard shortcuts.
@@kellymoses8566 You can game with them, but its not for every task... I played Descent 1 and Descent 2 with these. Works perfect, like it was made for this shooter
Did you look into hall effect sensors for the joystick? That feels like it would at least partially alleviate the wobble and probably eliminate the dead zone, too. Might be worth investigating if you're making it an actual product so you don't need the rubber and foam that perish over time.
Thanks for the suggestion! I've managed to solve the rattling and dead zone issues programmatically, achieving stable performance with nearly zero dead zone. Switching to hall effect sensors would increase the product cost significantly, so I'm sticking with the current setup to keep it more affordable without compromising on quality.
People have been trying to find an alternative to the mouse for decades and yet it still is the most popular way to control a pointer. And I think that's the case because it's simply the best solution. I've used joysticks in the past to control a cursor and they simply are not that precise. And if you increase the precision, then they are slow as hell to move around. I hate being negative because I love to design and build things as well, but I just don't see how this joystick-like device really can replace a mouse. I would suggest designing a "3D mouse" similar to the overpriced ones made by Connexions (their name is something like that). 3D mice would typically be used in tandem with a regular mouse. The 3D mouse would be used to manipulate (zoom, orbit, pan) a 3D model in CAD or 3D modeling software usually with your left hand, while the regular mouse is used to manipulate the user interface (moving the pointer and activating menus and icons) typically eith your right hand. Again, not trying to be too negative, but your joystick design already looks like some of the 3D mice on the market.
Thank you for your detailed comment and honest opinion! I agree that the mouse is a time-tested device, and many still consider it the best solution. However, my goal is to offer a convenient alternative for those who are looking for something more ergonomic and are not afraid to experiment. My design managed to achieve the right balance between precision and speed of movement to make it convenient for everyday use, and the software settings allow you to adjust the sensitivity to your preferences.
Thank you! The Space Mouse by 3Dconnexion is a great piece of inspiration-I really admire its unique functionality. I can see the appeal of trackballs; they offer excellent precision with minimal movement. My goal is to combine similar ease of use with more ergonomic support. Appreciate the feedback!
Thank you very much for such a high rating. I'm glad you liked it, in a couple of weeks I'll bring all the details to perfection and I'll be able to post them for downloading
Something that may help stabilize your gyro point is letting it sit, nested, on a cone shape inside the device. That way you're rolling the stick around the cone, but the rubber bands keep it taught and in place against the cone. This keeps the stick from floating and bouncing. keeps the gyro centered on a point to minimize errant movement, and you can rest your finger on the stick instead of need to hover over it.
Thanks for the interesting idea! The concept of a cone-shaped base for gyro stabilization does sound reasonable in terms of reducing unwanted oscillations and fixing the center point. However, in my design with a gimbal joystick, the main jitter suppression is already achieved by software filters and the gimbal. Such a system reduces the influence of external oscillations and minimizes inertial shifts. Therefore, adding a cone stabilizer in my case may not bring a significant improvement. Nevertheless, the approach is interesting and may work great in other implementations!
Awesome build, it's given me some ideas for my own controller. Regarding your switch problems, my older Logitech trackball uses Omron switches with the spring steel lever (also, made in Japan--higher build quality). They're over 20 years old and still going strong.
Very interesting, I would try one just out of curiosity. I've been using an Elecom EX-G PRO Trackball for years and it's been the best solution for me. After throwing away multiple thumb-controlled trackballs from logitech, also for the same cheap part issues you described here, I ended up with this, so far, great solution. I've grown somewhat adverse to the tired and old mouse design and think that innovation in this area is way too slow due to people's stubborn "lack of" adoption rate to something new and better. Some food for thought, if you do get some traction on this, adding another axis of control similar to a "space mouse" might be something to explore. Good job, will support!
If you can find one and want to deal with another standard mouse for ideas try finding a Logitech G600. I have been using this for years, and since they don't sell them anymore I have backups. I find the ergonomics nice since it actually has 3 finger rests on the top, and having over a dozen programmable buttons on it makes it exceptionally versatile because of the different profiles you can have for every program you want to use it with. I also use it in conjunction with the Logitech G13 (something they also stopped making), this adds far more function. If you are set on it being stationary I would highly suggest moving the joystick to the thumb position, this frees up all your other fingers for other tasks and could make it so you aren't forced to stop movement when you are using most of the other buttons. Also for the joystick you've probably already thought of it, but just in case you haven't, you might check out "hall effect" joysticks to get rid of dead zones. Because Logitech has stopped making the products I highly love using currently I might also have to go down this route at some point. Best of luck to you with this project.
I look forward to seeing this develop! Hope you go down the framework route and let it be a user DIY thing with options for different button modules and configurations. I've been seeking a new mouse and keep thinking how much I'd love a mouse that can be pulled apart and have new parts added to give it wireless/Bluetooth/cabled connectivity, also being able to have more robust metal buttons and external panels. A mouse for longevity and modularity.
Lots of interesting design. It seems like you could keep the joystick but surround it with curved shape for your palm and other fingers. The buttons and wheels could be placed on the curved shape, so you could operate them without moving your hand.
Thank you for the interesting offer! The design of the device has really come a long way, and the current form is the result of many tests and improvements for maximum comfort and ergonomics. I came to a form that, in my opinion, is the most convenient and allows you to use buttons and wheels without changing the natural position of your hand. But I will definitely take your comment into account for the future, there is always room for improvement!
Thank you very much! Very interesting device but very expensive, I have never seen it before. I think I have a plan how to improve it and make it much cheaper.
That's crazy your mouse broke in a year! I use my mouse daily for probably 8-10 hours, and I'm constantly clicking it and it's still going strong. I have the MX Master 3 so it's quite similar. It's harder to imagine more usage than I've thrown at this thing. What was your usage like? I use mine a ton in 3D modeling, 2D animation, Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. on a 49" ultrawide.
Some issues. The wrist rest needs an adjustment system for people with different hand sizes. The buttons seem very far apart for smaller hands and not positioned in easy to reach locations (where fingers might naturally rest without taking finger off joystick). I'd also suggest going with keyboard switches for the buttons at this point. Still, its a cool idea. Careful on wasting funding when you should definetely be making significant upgrades to the design. Customer first impressions are important. Wish you the best!
Thank you for the feedback! I’m currently working on refining the wrist rest to accommodate different hand sizes for a more comfortable and natural position. The final kit will likely include several joystick options, as they’re replaceable, along with two types of wrist rests. As for keyboard switches, I tested them, but their button travel is quite different and doesn’t match the feel of a mouse button, which could compromise convenience. I appreciate your input-it’s all helping me make this design even better!
I know this is all temporary, but eventually, you might want to find a 'shelf stable' version of the foam dampening. Foam eventually disintegrates and turns into sand, ruining any microswitch contaminated.
would a compliant mechanism be a better fit for the main joystick that rubber bands. You could get an even resistance across the whole range of movement.
Take a look at hall effect gimbals that are used in RC remote controllers for drones etc. seems like exactly what you need for your joystick. They're a lot more accurate and will let you adjust tension etc... much better without wobbles. On the more expensive side, Radiomaster AG-01 family of gimbals but there are cheaper ones too.
Thanks for the tip! This is a really good option - Hall effect suspensions, like in the Radiomaster AG-01 line, are great for control, providing high accuracy and the ability to adjust the tension. However, as you correctly noted, such solutions cost from $ 100, which makes them quite expensive. The main thing is that in my design it was possible to achieve similar accuracy without a dead zone due to the use of software algorithms. This allows you to get the desired level of sensitivity without additional costs for expensive equipment.
Interesting project. I'm not sure how practical a joystick is when trackpads exist. I think a trackpad with some functionality buttons in easy to reach spots would be a more practical and more comfortable approach. Though I don't build things and am not sure how difficult it would be to implement your own trackpad
It’s an amazing diy and hats off to the dude making what he wants. But Yeah there’s a reason why people don’t like controlling a cursor with PlayStation/xbox controllers. So I think this guy is off on his own island of input devices
I have extensive experience with various input devices: I've tried mice of all kinds, three types of trackballs, and even the Logitech Rechargeable Touchpad T650. However, I found some issues with the trackpad - my finger quickly tires from the surface, and desired actions are often misinterpreted. In my search for something truly comfortable, I decided to create my own mouse. I'm still refining the joystick shape, and in just a couple of weeks, you'll be able to download the model and try it out yourself!
I agree that standard mouse is not very comfortable. Also by heavy use you can get serious pain in arm and wrist. So this project is a great idea! But have you tried a Roller Mouse? The mobile one is just amazing. It solves the problem for me.
Thanks for sharing that! I hadn’t heard of the Roller Mouse before, so I appreciate the recommendation. I’ll definitely check it out when I get a chance-it’s always great to explore different ergonomic solutions. Thanks again!
Man ignore the armchair critics. This is awesome and I love how you iterated until you got it right. I can see a lot of applications for this where a mouse would not be suitable. Especially for accessibility reasons.
What the hell do you do with your mice? Those switches are supposed to be good for at least one million activations. I've still got MY first Logitech from back in the 90s, and it's buttons work fine!
I’m jumping in here with a guess. He’s into PC gaming. That’s the only thing I can think. My logitech from the 90’s is sitting next to me and, as you said, it works great to this day.
If your mice keep breaking it might be a you problem. I replaced my desktop mouse probably once every 10 years. Not because they stopped working but because I wanted a different mouse.
Very cool Project! I have also considered building something pretty similar. Have you ever considered using Hall Effect Joystics? Or were they in the video and I missed it when you said it in the video?
Thank you! In this task it was important to accurately measure angular movements, so I chose a gyroscope, which copes better with determining the location in space than a joystick based on a Hall sensor.
Thank you! In this task it was important to accurately measure angular movements, so I chose a gyroscope, which copes better with determining the location in space than a joystick based on a Hall sensor.
@@DIY_Yarik I see. Fair enough. I'm more sensitive to input latency even for desktop tasks. I haven't tested them side-by-side, but I believe the gyro sensors usually come with a greater lag. But obviously the beauty of a project like this is that you get to choose and prioritise whatever is most important to you. And I love the fact that so many RUclips makers are doing this sort of stuff now.
Great video i hope too see future iterations maybe even a product launch! But i do have some suggestions/ideas (or what ever they are called): By the looks of it I think using index finger on it is pretty awkward. Maybe the middle finger would be better it would also make it so the whole hand doesn't need to completely change the hand position just to click the two vertical buttons[*]. I maybe you can put the volume control back to the side[**] Another is move the buttons closer so its directly below the index and ring finger and also belower than the cursor. =°=(kind of like this is what im thinking or maybe you can also move the two button together like this ミ⊙ミ or like this ╬ ⊙ ╬ with the cursor a little higher ). [*]While writing i was thinking the two buttons and scroll be assigned to the thumb. [**]I couldn't decide if the volume control should be thumb or pinky finger.
very cool, i just hoard mice so when one breaks i cant fix i just plug in a new one. i did luck out recently with a mechanical rgb keyboard i paid $7 for at a discount shop new in box with a metal frame that changing the buttons out is a breeze
since the middle joystick always returns to the center because of the rubber bands, when you let go of it does the cursor also move to middle of the screen? how does it work in scenarios like that?
that's pretty cool... I'd use a thumbstick component instead of designing a whole new joystick. Already has a button press under it as well and the centering is already setup. For the scroll wheel i would use a single axis rocker switch component.. not sure what its called but they use them on automobile automatic windows. Edit: I believe its called a spring return thumbwheel or a rocker thumbwheel.. You can get thumb sticks really cheap ... like 3usd but the rockers are kinda expensive
Thank you for the suggestion! Unfortunately, the rocker switches used in cars generally have very strong springs, which makes them uncomfortable for this type of device. The same applies to many joystick modules. There are a few joystick models that offer a softer, more precise experience, but their cost starts around $120, which would make the device too expensive.
@DIY_Yarik the rockers are about 50-80 usd and have a hall sensor and a light centering spring. I agree it's probably too expensive for a mass produced device. They also have them on hotas joysticks. The joysticks for an Xbox controller would be accurate enough with a small dead zone for a mouse pointer. There are also flight sim joysticks that use force instead of movement. I believe they are called "force sensing". Could be fun to try out something like that for a one off prototype.
Thank you for asking! The joystick is stable thanks to the rubber bands, which prevent any wobbling even with movement or shaking. Additionally, software filters are in place to handle any slight rattling, so it accurately detects intentional user movements.
Thank you so much for such a positive response! I'm glad you liked the idea - it's incredibly inspiring! I will do my best to meet your expectations. Welcome to the support team!
Unfortunately, I don’t have much time for gaming, so it's hard for me to say how well this will perform in games. I think it could work well for strategy games, but I have doubts about its effectiveness in something like Counter-Strike, where a specialized gaming mouse would likely be faster and feel more familiar.
i think it would feel pretty bad for gaming.. you wouldn't game with a trackpad or a trackball or even a track point.. You could probably program it to be a controller though. it only needs a couple more buttons and another axis to be built on an xbox controller
Not every joystick is equally comfortable to use. Several factors play a big role here, such as the joystick’s dead zone and ease of rotation. The version I developed has no dead zone and offers exceptionally smooth movement, quite different from the joysticks found in standard game controllers. While there are professional-grade joysticks available, the modules alone often start at around $120.
The reliability issues dont make sense to me, i am ham fisted, and have been known to throw stuff. i have never broken any of the recent high end logitech mouse. I game, design on cad, and basically use my PC all day. the only thing that has made my user experience better has been a space mouse, which has a similar layout to your cronos.
Yes, you’re absolutely right! I get the impression that Logitech deliberately selects microcontrollers with a limited lifespan. What’s worse, when you try to re-solder them, the board contacts often get damaged, and it usually only withstands 2-3 re-solderings at best.
Yes, I've had this issue with mine also, I get the "double click" issue eventually on almost all my mice. I've replaced them a couple times but its quite the pain because of the soldering. It would be far better if they made them so they could just be set in place and then replaced when they wear out.
I showed the problems of gamepad joysticks in the video. There is a very large dead zone and you need to rotate it with force, which makes control very difficult.
📌 Hi everyone! The program code for Cronos Control is now available for download - link in the video description. You’ll also find all the component links there.
I’m still refining the 3D model to make control as smooth and comfortable as possible. It will be available for a small fee after the Kickstarter campaign ends on November 26.
The campaign launches on November 5 - reserve your 3D model at the early bird price and support the project www.kickstarter.com/projects/diy-yari/cronos-control-ergonomic-controller-for-precision-and-comfort! 🚀
I appreciate the work, but I think switching from the absolute motion of a mouse to the relative motion of a joystick misses the point of a mouse to many of us.
I don't know, I used to enjoy the little red joystick on the laptop quite a lot, I'm sure I'd get used to this in no time. I'd be interested in buying if it was for sale. Long days with 3d work really wreaks my wrist, even with a vertical mouse I like.
Never used the little keyboard pointer on Thinkpads? You can't really game with them but they work fine for desktop use. More motivation to learn keyboard shortcuts.
@@kellymoses8566 You can game with them, but its not for every task...
I played Descent 1 and Descent 2 with these. Works perfect, like it was made for this shooter
Did you look into hall effect sensors for the joystick? That feels like it would at least partially alleviate the wobble and probably eliminate the dead zone, too. Might be worth investigating if you're making it an actual product so you don't need the rubber and foam that perish over time.
I'd use hall + gyro + acc together
i came to say the same thing
Thanks for the suggestion! I've managed to solve the rattling and dead zone issues programmatically, achieving stable performance with nearly zero dead zone. Switching to hall effect sensors would increase the product cost significantly, so I'm sticking with the current setup to keep it more affordable without compromising on quality.
People have been trying to find an alternative to the mouse for decades and yet it still is the most popular way to control a pointer. And I think that's the case because it's simply the best solution. I've used joysticks in the past to control a cursor and they simply are not that precise. And if you increase the precision, then they are slow as hell to move around. I hate being negative because I love to design and build things as well, but I just don't see how this joystick-like device really can replace a mouse. I would suggest designing a "3D mouse" similar to the overpriced ones made by Connexions (their name is something like that). 3D mice would typically be used in tandem with a regular mouse. The 3D mouse would be used to manipulate (zoom, orbit, pan) a 3D model in CAD or 3D modeling software usually with your left hand, while the regular mouse is used to manipulate the user interface (moving the pointer and activating menus and icons) typically eith your right hand. Again, not trying to be too negative, but your joystick design already looks like some of the 3D mice on the market.
Thank you for your detailed comment and honest opinion! I agree that the mouse is a time-tested device, and many still consider it the best solution. However, my goal is to offer a convenient alternative for those who are looking for something more ergonomic and are not afraid to experiment. My design managed to achieve the right balance between precision and speed of movement to make it convenient for everyday use, and the software settings allow you to adjust the sensitivity to your preferences.
This is really awesome. Made me think of the Space Mouse by 3dconnexion. I'm a big fan of the trackballs with a thumb ball like logitech's ergo m575.
Thank you! The Space Mouse by 3Dconnexion is a great piece of inspiration-I really admire its unique functionality. I can see the appeal of trackballs; they offer excellent precision with minimal movement. My goal is to combine similar ease of use with more ergonomic support. Appreciate the feedback!
This is some impressive work of engineering!
Thank you very much for such a high rating. I'm glad you liked it, in a couple of weeks I'll bring all the details to perfection and I'll be able to post them for downloading
This needs way more views, impressive work!
Thank you, I am very pleased that you appreciated my work!
Something that may help stabilize your gyro point is letting it sit, nested, on a cone shape inside the device. That way you're rolling the stick around the cone, but the rubber bands keep it taught and in place against the cone. This keeps the stick from floating and bouncing. keeps the gyro centered on a point to minimize errant movement, and you can rest your finger on the stick instead of need to hover over it.
Thanks for the interesting idea! The concept of a cone-shaped base for gyro stabilization does sound reasonable in terms of reducing unwanted oscillations and fixing the center point. However, in my design with a gimbal joystick, the main jitter suppression is already achieved by software filters and the gimbal. Such a system reduces the influence of external oscillations and minimizes inertial shifts. Therefore, adding a cone stabilizer in my case may not bring a significant improvement.
Nevertheless, the approach is interesting and may work great in other implementations!
I love unconventional designs! It keeps things exciting
man, this is SERIOUSLY cool. I love seeing innovations like this!!!
Thank you, I am very pleased.
intressting concept! It looks just good and i am excited for the KS!
Thank you, we will launch the company today!
Awesome build, it's given me some ideas for my own controller. Regarding your switch problems, my older Logitech trackball uses Omron switches with the spring steel lever (also, made in Japan--higher build quality). They're over 20 years old and still going strong.
Very interesting, I would try one just out of curiosity. I've been using an Elecom EX-G PRO Trackball for years and it's been the best solution for me. After throwing away multiple thumb-controlled trackballs from logitech, also for the same cheap part issues you described here, I ended up with this, so far, great solution. I've grown somewhat adverse to the tired and old mouse design and think that innovation in this area is way too slow due to people's stubborn "lack of" adoption rate to something new and better. Some food for thought, if you do get some traction on this, adding another axis of control similar to a "space mouse" might be something to explore. Good job, will support!
If you can find one and want to deal with another standard mouse for ideas try finding a Logitech G600. I have been using this for years, and since they don't sell them anymore I have backups. I find the ergonomics nice since it actually has 3 finger rests on the top, and having over a dozen programmable buttons on it makes it exceptionally versatile because of the different profiles you can have for every program you want to use it with. I also use it in conjunction with the Logitech G13 (something they also stopped making), this adds far more function.
If you are set on it being stationary I would highly suggest moving the joystick to the thumb position, this frees up all your other fingers for other tasks and could make it so you aren't forced to stop movement when you are using most of the other buttons.
Also for the joystick you've probably already thought of it, but just in case you haven't, you might check out "hall effect" joysticks to get rid of dead zones.
Because Logitech has stopped making the products I highly love using currently I might also have to go down this route at some point. Best of luck to you with this project.
meanwhile I've had the same Razer Deathadder for literally 7 or 8 years and it still works just as well as the day I bought it
I look forward to seeing this develop! Hope you go down the framework route and let it be a user DIY thing with options for different button modules and configurations. I've been seeking a new mouse and keep thinking how much I'd love a mouse that can be pulled apart and have new parts added to give it wireless/Bluetooth/cabled connectivity, also being able to have more robust metal buttons and external panels. A mouse for longevity and modularity.
What a wild design!
PS if you want long lasting switches then look in to what switches Razer Viper has
Lots of interesting design. It seems like you could keep the joystick but surround it with curved shape for your palm and other fingers. The buttons and wheels could be placed on the curved shape, so you could operate them without moving your hand.
Thank you for the interesting offer! The design of the device has really come a long way, and the current form is the result of many tests and improvements for maximum comfort and ergonomics. I came to a form that, in my opinion, is the most convenient and allows you to use buttons and wheels without changing the natural position of your hand. But I will definitely take your comment into account for the future, there is always room for improvement!
Hey it looks very cool, I would recommend you to have a look at the svalboards palm rest.
Thank you very much! Very interesting device but very expensive, I have never seen it before. I think I have a plan how to improve it and make it much cheaper.
@@DIY_Yarik you are welcomed
You could use hall effect gimbals for PS/Xbox, it costs only couple euros.
Though it likely will have the same stiffness.
That's crazy your mouse broke in a year! I use my mouse daily for probably 8-10 hours, and I'm constantly clicking it and it's still going strong. I have the MX Master 3 so it's quite similar. It's harder to imagine more usage than I've thrown at this thing. What was your usage like? I use mine a ton in 3D modeling, 2D animation, Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. on a 49" ultrawide.
Some issues. The wrist rest needs an adjustment system for people with different hand sizes. The buttons seem very far apart for smaller hands and not positioned in easy to reach locations (where fingers might naturally rest without taking finger off joystick). I'd also suggest going with keyboard switches for the buttons at this point. Still, its a cool idea. Careful on wasting funding when you should definetely be making significant upgrades to the design. Customer first impressions are important. Wish you the best!
Thank you for the feedback! I’m currently working on refining the wrist rest to accommodate different hand sizes for a more comfortable and natural position. The final kit will likely include several joystick options, as they’re replaceable, along with two types of wrist rests. As for keyboard switches, I tested them, but their button travel is quite different and doesn’t match the feel of a mouse button, which could compromise convenience. I appreciate your input-it’s all helping me make this design even better!
I know this is all temporary, but eventually, you might want to find a 'shelf stable' version of the foam dampening. Foam eventually disintegrates and turns into sand, ruining any microswitch contaminated.
would a compliant mechanism be a better fit for the main joystick that rubber bands. You could get an even resistance across the whole range of movement.
Take a look at hall effect gimbals that are used in RC remote controllers for drones etc. seems like exactly what you need for your joystick. They're a lot more accurate and will let you adjust tension etc... much better without wobbles.
On the more expensive side, Radiomaster AG-01 family of gimbals but there are cheaper ones too.
Thanks for the tip! This is a really good option - Hall effect suspensions, like in the Radiomaster AG-01 line, are great for control, providing high accuracy and the ability to adjust the tension. However, as you correctly noted, such solutions cost from $ 100, which makes them quite expensive.
The main thing is that in my design it was possible to achieve similar accuracy without a dead zone due to the use of software algorithms. This allows you to get the desired level of sensitivity without additional costs for expensive equipment.
Interesting project. I'm not sure how practical a joystick is when trackpads exist. I think a trackpad with some functionality buttons in easy to reach spots would be a more practical and more comfortable approach. Though I don't build things and am not sure how difficult it would be to implement your own trackpad
It’s an amazing diy and hats off to the dude making what he wants. But Yeah there’s a reason why people don’t like controlling a cursor with PlayStation/xbox controllers. So I think this guy is off on his own island of input devices
I have extensive experience with various input devices: I've tried mice of all kinds, three types of trackballs, and even the Logitech Rechargeable Touchpad T650. However, I found some issues with the trackpad - my finger quickly tires from the surface, and desired actions are often misinterpreted. In my search for something truly comfortable, I decided to create my own mouse. I'm still refining the joystick shape, and in just a couple of weeks, you'll be able to download the model and try it out yourself!
@@DIY_Yarik Very interesting. I'm glad you were able to make something that works best for you. I enjoyed watching the design process :)
I agree that standard mouse is not very comfortable. Also by heavy use you can get serious pain in arm and wrist. So this project is a great idea! But have you tried a Roller Mouse? The mobile one is just amazing. It solves the problem for me.
Thanks for sharing that! I hadn’t heard of the Roller Mouse before, so I appreciate the recommendation. I’ll definitely check it out when I get a chance-it’s always great to explore different ergonomic solutions. Thanks again!
I use a Logi 575 trackball with a wrist rest mouse pad which does not move. You can control the speed with Logi Options +
Just a thought,maybe try hall effect joysticks❤
Man ignore the armchair critics. This is awesome and I love how you iterated until you got it right. I can see a lot of applications for this where a mouse would not be suitable. Especially for accessibility reasons.
What the hell do you do with your mice? Those switches are supposed to be good for at least one million activations. I've still got MY first Logitech from back in the 90s, and it's buttons work fine!
I’m jumping in here with a guess. He’s into PC gaming. That’s the only thing I can think. My logitech from the 90’s is sitting next to me and, as you said, it works great to this day.
If your mice keep breaking it might be a you problem. I replaced my desktop mouse probably once every 10 years. Not because they stopped working but because I wanted a different mouse.
Very cool Project! I have also considered building something pretty similar. Have you ever considered using Hall Effect Joystics? Or were they in the video and I missed it when you said it in the video?
Thank you! In this task it was important to accurately measure angular movements, so I chose a gyroscope, which copes better with determining the location in space than a joystick based on a Hall sensor.
@@DIY_Yarik I see. Thank you for your reply!
It looks great. I'd love to have a go with it.
Did you consider hall effect sticks? No deadzone. And they're nice and simple.
Thank you! In this task it was important to accurately measure angular movements, so I chose a gyroscope, which copes better with determining the location in space than a joystick based on a Hall sensor.
@@DIY_Yarik I see. Fair enough. I'm more sensitive to input latency even for desktop tasks. I haven't tested them side-by-side, but I believe the gyro sensors usually come with a greater lag.
But obviously the beauty of a project like this is that you get to choose and prioritise whatever is most important to you. And I love the fact that so many RUclips makers are doing this sort of stuff now.
FPV gimbals might be nice. Like Hall ones from Radiomaster (AG01 / AG01 Mini) or high quality potentiometer from Jumper (RDC90).
Great video i hope too see future iterations maybe even a product launch! But i do have some suggestions/ideas (or what ever they are called):
By the looks of it I think using index finger on it is pretty awkward. Maybe the middle finger would be better it would also make it so the whole hand doesn't need to completely change the hand position just to click the two vertical buttons[*].
I maybe you can put the volume control back to the side[**]
Another is move the buttons closer so its directly below the index and ring finger and also belower than the cursor. =°=(kind of like this is what im thinking or maybe you can also move the two button together like this ミ⊙ミ or like this ╬ ⊙ ╬ with the cursor a little higher ).
[*]While writing i was thinking the two buttons and scroll be assigned to the thumb.
[**]I couldn't decide if the volume control should be thumb or pinky finger.
With that size why not using mechanical keyboard switch? Even you can make it hotswapable
very cool, i just hoard mice so when one breaks i cant fix i just plug in a new one. i did luck out recently with a mechanical rgb keyboard i paid $7 for at a discount shop new in box with a metal frame that changing the buttons out is a breeze
since the middle joystick always returns to the center because of the rubber bands, when you let go of it does the cursor also move to middle of the screen? how does it work in scenarios like that?
Presumably, this has relative control, just like the Trackpoint on a Thinkpad laptop. When you release the joystick, the cursor just stops moving.
that's pretty cool... I'd use a thumbstick component instead of designing a whole new joystick. Already has a button press under it as well and the centering is already setup. For the scroll wheel i would use a single axis rocker switch component.. not sure what its called but they use them on automobile automatic windows.
Edit: I believe its called a spring return thumbwheel or a rocker thumbwheel.. You can get thumb sticks really cheap ... like 3usd but the rockers are kinda expensive
Thank you for the suggestion! Unfortunately, the rocker switches used in cars generally have very strong springs, which makes them uncomfortable for this type of device. The same applies to many joystick modules. There are a few joystick models that offer a softer, more precise experience, but their cost starts around $120, which would make the device too expensive.
@DIY_Yarik the rockers are about 50-80 usd and have a hall sensor and a light centering spring. I agree it's probably too expensive for a mass produced device. They also have them on hotas joysticks. The joysticks for an Xbox controller would be accurate enough with a small dead zone for a mouse pointer.
There are also flight sim joysticks that use force instead of movement. I believe they are called "force sensing". Could be fun to try out something like that for a one off prototype.
Cool design. Are you still using your DIY HRV??
Thank you, yes the HRV still works in the house without any breakdowns.
watching you replace every joystick module with a gyroscope because of the dead Zone had me almost punching my screen JUST USE HALL EFFECT MODULES
Won't the stick drifting while there is no strong centering mechanism?
Thank you for asking! The joystick is stable thanks to the rubber bands, which prevent any wobbling even with movement or shaking. Additionally, software filters are in place to handle any slight rattling, so it accurately detects intentional user movements.
Shut up & TAKE MY MONEY! Wonderful idea. This is the first Kickstarter I will have ever supported.
Thank you so much for such a positive response! I'm glad you liked the idea - it's incredibly inspiring! I will do my best to meet your expectations. Welcome to the support team!
cool
but how performant will it be in games?
No
Unfortunately, I don’t have much time for gaming, so it's hard for me to say how well this will perform in games. I think it could work well for strategy games, but I have doubts about its effectiveness in something like Counter-Strike, where a specialized gaming mouse would likely be faster and feel more familiar.
i think it would feel pretty bad for gaming.. you wouldn't game with a trackpad or a trackball or even a track point.. You could probably program it to be a controller though. it only needs a couple more buttons and another axis to be built on an xbox controller
Those Switches break because Logitech applies an improper voltage to those switches on their wireless lineups.
Ive never tried joystick, is it as good as a normal mouse?
Not every joystick is equally comfortable to use. Several factors play a big role here, such as the joystick’s dead zone and ease of rotation. The version I developed has no dead zone and offers exceptionally smooth movement, quite different from the joysticks found in standard game controllers. While there are professional-grade joysticks available, the modules alone often start at around $120.
Can't wait for a gamer to No-Hit Elden Ring while using this thing, or something among those lines
I'm an FPS gamer, sorry.
I wish it is available in the Philippines.
Thank you, after the Kickstarter campaign is over I can send it to anywhere in the world :)
The reliability issues dont make sense to me, i am ham fisted, and have been known to throw stuff. i have never broken any of the recent high end logitech mouse. I game, design on cad, and basically use my PC all day. the only thing that has made my user experience better has been a space mouse, which has a similar layout to your cronos.
Hey that left click sticking seems to be universal with Logitech mice 😂 seems like something intentionally built in their products.
Yes, you’re absolutely right! I get the impression that Logitech deliberately selects microcontrollers with a limited lifespan. What’s worse, when you try to re-solder them, the board contacts often get damaged, and it usually only withstands 2-3 re-solderings at best.
Yes, I've had this issue with mine also, I get the "double click" issue eventually on almost all my mice. I've replaced them a couple times but its quite the pain because of the soldering. It would be far better if they made them so they could just be set in place and then replaced when they wear out.
why not just use a gamepad?
I showed the problems of gamepad joysticks in the video. There is a very large dead zone and you need to rotate it with force, which makes control very difficult.
jesus ik u like it and its cool but it looks like an awful design
The design of the device is driven not by aesthetics but by a strong focus on creating something truly convenient and functional.
Looks better than anything you have ever made. That is to say…nothing.
Criticism is fine, but it’s useless if it’s not constructive. What an awful comment.
Functionality, comfort > looks
that wrist rest looks like a medieval torture decide for your carpal tunnel
It may not seem obvious until you try it in action, but it’s designed to support your wrist at just the right angle, making it a pleasure to use.