I played both really a lot before purchasing. Many people talk about the sound, but as a professional pianist, it’s more about the touch and feel. Steinway is a great piano but after you play a Shigeru, it’s absolutely different. I would say the Shigeru has soul. I retried playing Steinway and it felt mechanical, when playing the Shigeru I could really feel the handmade qualities. I chose Shigeru.
@@sensoeirensen And this "good" is really bad. I can only speak of the sound, but modern Steinways are just brilliant, loud and cold. I've always preferred the sound of YAMAHA or old Steinways. For me Steinway is Liszt when he wants to show off, but you can't play Chopin-Nocturnes on them.
I had a similar experience comparing Steinway vs Shigeru. I bought a Shigeru SK-6 and am so happy with it. For the life of me I couldn't understand why all the Steinway Bs in the showrooms were so hard to control---the Shigerus handled like butter in comparison. Then I met a Kawai/Shigeru dealer who previously worked for Steinway. According to him, the amount of manual finishing in a Steinway, these days, is about one-seventh the number of hours that Shigeru dedicates to their pianos. That care and investment is what creates the superior touch and feel. Around that time, I also researched and read that over the years Steinway has changed management and ownership away from piano experts. It gave the impression that Steinway has turned into a money making machine, riding off their name and golden past, exploiting that to quietly reduce the amount of care and money poured into their newer makes---get away with as least production cost as possible. While I have no visibility into all that behind-the-scenes stuff, these informational tidbits strongly align with what I can directly experience, which is the quality of the instruments and their feel under my fingers. The story also matches what I've heard from many, about older Steinways or Hamburg Steinways---very different feel and playing experience. Anyway, I love my Shigeru. In addition to Steinway B, I also considered a Yamaha CF6 or Bösendorfer 200/225. But probably if I ever change, it will be to up-size to the SK-7.
The Kawai action uses modern composite materials. The Steinway uses all-wooden actions. The nice thing about Kawai is that you get the exact same action of the same size in all of their grand pianos (including their smaller grand pianos). So if you play a smaller Kawai the keys feel as if you are playing a concert grand.
I am a Japanese and living at Hamamatsu City, and each factories (Yamaha, Kawaii, Rolland) are within 20 Min Drive Shigeru Kawaii Pianos were different from other usual Kawai Piano. Shigeru KawaiI pianos were assembled at different special place, Named (Ryuou-Factory) Just like a Lake Side Villa, with relax condition.(with all hand made) Engineers were not forced to hurry up. Time schedule were made by each engineers. The Special Factory were protected by Mr.Kawai (Founder , Owner)and completely separated from other factories. I do not know How Stein Way were assembled, But from my point of view, Shigeru-Kawaii Pianos are good case of somebody's EGO made good result. (P.S. I sware I m just a private piano fun and no relation with piano seller)
Thank you Bohumir. I love both of these pianos and enjoyed your own compositions immensely too. There is differentiation particularly in the action as the Kawai EX concert grand action is made of carbon fibre apart from the hammer shanks and keysticks. The hammers on the Shigeru pianos are made from Merino wool coming from New Zealand and Australia. The Ezo spruce is harvested for the Kawai EX soundboard from Hokkaido, but I believe the Sitka spruce for Steinway instruments is sourced from Canada. To my ear the mid-range and treble tone of the Shigeru is just a little brighter than the same registers of the Steinway, but the bass of the Japanese piano is resplendent.
Thank you for your comment. Yes, it is my diletantism that I haven't mention the action. I knew about that - the action is black as coal. :-) I have the same opinion about the sound.
I was told that Kawai still has some spruce they bought before the WWII, and those are used in the top-of-the-line SK EX. Nobody has wood aged that long.
That Kawai has a beautiful timbre, whereas the Steinway sounds more like your "typical" grand sound - neutral, both are great of course, but as it comes across in the recording the Kawai easy win for me this time (using rather dark headphones though). Thanks for the beautiful playing.
Recently had the opportunity to hear the Shigeru Kawai played by a professional pianist and I got goosebumps from the sound. In live it sounds much fuller than a Steinway. It is a wonderful instrument!
I think it is very unprofessional, disrespectful, and naive to simply call the Shigeru Kawai SK-EX a fake Steinway D. SK-EX is a wonderful piano, masterfully designed and made by Japanese piano artisans and it is very distinct from Steinway in every aspect.
Finally a really objective review! Mic'd the same in the same room with the same piece(s). Seemless. And great detective work comparing the construction both pianos and in the fact that the Steinway patent has expired. They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, though I am sure if some good Steinway is used to everyone copying their design. The things that might be "different" are the woods used, age of the woods, crown of the soundboard, action, possibly coatings/windings on the strings. It would be interesting to hear from an RPT who regulated both pianos what they thought? And great compositions, by the way! Love them!
Even compressed, it is true that we could hear the differences. Of course, the pure direct sound is the best, and that’s why we all would like to have a grand piano in our house (if possible), but this comparison was very interesting, and productive for me. Why do you think, Maestro Pletnev returned to play piano by SK-EX? He said, he at last found the piano which could produce the sound he wants to produce by SK-EX and returned to playing pianos, while he once gave up.
The bass of S. kawai is better and more focused , mid is softer on kawai, high is clearer and projects in steinway. I love both piano! I also thinks the recording and editing of this video is phenomenal!! Best comaprison video I have seen in youtube thank you so much!
The Shigeru reminds me of the 1930's model D I played at my first competition and became my gold standard. I've played both brands before and prefer the Shigeru. However the best piano I've played on was a 1982 Bosendorfer Imperial, and remains my dream piano.
They both sound great. They may look the same but they don't sound the same. The Kawai has a warmer and fuller sound. The bass of the Kawai also sounds fuller. The Steinway has a brighter and louder upper register.
Kawai are producing other company brand piano(OEM). For example Steinway(Boston Brand),DIAPASON Brand and so on. So,Kawai is familiar with other companies' designs. Shigeru Kawai designed with advanced scientific analysis. The cast frame is very similar to the Steinway, but the soundboard design is very different.(It's the thickest among the major piano manufacturers.) This forms the unique sound of Shigeru Kawai.
I believe the cast frames are produced very differently. Steinway has a much longer cure time, rendering them far more sonically inert. You really don't want to hear resonance in a plate.
No, I do not think that the Shigeru Kawai is a fake Steinway. The bridge, plates and braces seem to be modeled after the Hamburg Steinway. However, the Shigeru uses different types of woods in the rim, uses a carbon fiber action vs. Steinway's wood action, and I think the soundboard woods are different as Ezo Spruce is used for the SK-EX and I believe it is Sitka used for the Steinway D. The big difference is Steinway is resting on its laurels and haven't made a new piano design in over 100 years. The Shigeru Kawai came out in 2000 or so and is aided by computer acoustical measurements, computer design even if it is made in a very traditional, slow, hand carved fashion like most great top-tier concert grands are made. In terms of tone, the Kawai is darker, Steinway somewhat brighter and I feel the Kawai has more body in the tone. I don't think one is better and when it comes to top-tier grands, it's individual piano that tends to stand out. I like these two, the Bosendorfer 280 VC, Yamaha CFX and they've just come out with a Mark 2 version so Yamaha is continuing to upgrade and make new pianos, and Steingraebers, Bluthners and Bechsteins. I'm not sure about Fazioli one way or another. I enjoyed your presentation, playing and compositions. Thank you.
@@someguyfromarcticfreezer6854 and K. Kawai uses a copied Steinway's design. The professional tuners at my academy say the same. They copied the design and changed materials and some details.
@@someguyfromarcticfreezer6854 And Koichi Kawai got inspiration from Torakusu Yamaha, his mentor and teacher. He was taken by Mr. Yamaha as an apprentice when he was 11 years old, where he probably learned first how to make organs. Torakusu Yamaha traveled to the US alone to learn how to make pianos, and he started building his first upright pianos when Koichi Kawai was 14 years old, and he built his first grand piano when Koichi Kawai was 16 years old. Koichi Kawai remained learning and working for Yamaha for 30 years. He left Yamaha and founded his own company, for which he worked for 28 years. So, he worked more time under Yamaha's vision than for his own company.
So how different is the scale design of the Kawai to the Steinway? I'm not even necessarily a fan of Steinway, but to say that they are stagnant is wrong in my opinion. While Steinways designs have remained the same, their production methods have not, and the components they use have different specifications in modern times. All this contributes to a tone that is distinctly different from an older "golden age" Steinway. If Kawai uses largely the same scale design but with different materials and components, then I don't see how they're any different.
Well, I think that Kawai has successfully reinvented the "Lamborghini" in this case. I have to add that I have a preference for instruments with more bass, whether it's guitars, pianos, or any audio equipment that I buy. That's what I get from Kawai, too. 😊 Thanks for your review!
It's not Lamborghini vs fake Lamborghini. It's more like Lamborghini vs McLaren. They are different, yet can get you to the same place. I actually noticed some of the changes in Example 2 -- the Kawai is smoother, and not as harsh as the Steinway. But everyone has their own opinion.
An excellent comparison, thanks. I enjoyed your compositions too! Overall, listening to the video, there was not a great deal between them, but I bet when playing them oneself the difference is far greater. What I discerned was a greater level of harmonics from the Steinway in the middle section (as if each note had a treble control that was turned up a little for the Steinway), though when the notes were played 'sf' there seemed to be more from the Kawai! As one moved to the high treble, there was more sparkle from the Kawai. In addition, maybe the Steinway has a more powerful deep bass (with less brassiness) and perhaps it has greater dynamic range overall, but this is hard to tell as youtube no doubt compresses the recording. One thing which did concern me with the Kawai was something that sounded like a buzz from the dampers coming down as you lifted the sustain pedal - listen to 15' 40" to 16' 15" and 17' 8". I would need to play them myself of course to get a better idea (e.g. touch as well), though the recording quality was very good. However, from your video, I think I would be leaning towards the Kawai, but only just, though concerned about the buzzing from the dampers coming down in places (which I did not hear with the Steinway). Have you played a modern (post 2010 ish) Estonia? That would be great to compare against.
In the piano world, I believe the title is clickbait ;)) Steinway is Steinway, Shigeru is Shigeru. It's more like when you compare a Porsche with a GTR, not a Lambo and fake Lambo. Btw, both are amazing. I did try some of these noble pianos, the mid range in Steinway D has more detail than the Shigeru but not so different. Steinway did very well in creating a versatile instrument (not mean it's bad, very beautiful instead), that is why Steinway was chosen by tons of international concert halls. But I fell in love with Shigeru when the first note of sonata 14 came up when I had a chance to attend a concert in Japan. Oh yes, the sound is exactly when you have a journey to explore under sea, dark, strong but still light as a feather. Personally, the comparison should be the stunning Bosendorfer Imperial 290 and the Shigeru. They share the common in the tone, can bring us various characters and fit with a solo piece rather than a orchestra-needed piece. However, I bought Shigeru, because 290 is far away from my pocket.
If there were only the two grands to chose from, wisely, a person would play several Steinway and several Shigeru before making a decision on which brand, and once that is decided play several more of the brand you chose. Hand crafted grands are definitively a craft of art, each with it's own character. In this demonstration, the Shigeru demonstrates a fuller colorful round tone and the Steinway is consistent with Steinway we hear so often.
Well, maybe it's not my day, but i found it really hard to differentiate between the two. Sometimes when i closed my eyes I didn't even realize that you switched the piano (excellent cut 😉). My vague impression is that the Kawai is a little bit brighter. But that is all I can say. Very nice pieces by the way :)
One thing that as always bothered me about Steinway's large grands D, C and B: The add-on bar to the frame. Because they are bolted on, my hunch is that some time in the 1880's it wasn't there and some technician came up with idea of that one stiffening diagonal member to be added. Thanks to Steinway's patent obsession, it became part to the "official" design. Notice that the Shigeru Kawai doesn't have it.
In terms of investment , one might choose a Steinway .., but in terms of practicality , in right choose a Shigeru for several reasons ..: 1- Less money … 2- A Piano that may last just as long … 3- New technology… (Kawai now use carbon fiber material in their actions … etc …) …. 4- The Shigeru might even be better built …: (like Mason & Hamlin ,, though a Steinway may hold more ministry 💰 collector value ) …. And the list may go onward … …. There are even Baldwins that have been maid in as good or superior quality than some Steinways but may cost small fraction of what a Steinway would cost … But Steinways are still really well built … especially the earlier ones … But with any piano … no matter what brand or built the main ingredient will always be the condition of a particular piano All pianos deteriorate in time ..:: And have to be rebuilt .. Theirs Collectible value ….. and there’s practical & applicable value . But a used or older well conditioned or maintained piano is really a very great value It seems the Shigeru will be a very good value to have for a very long time … For a player & performer &/.or recording artist the sound of an instrument will always matter more than one’s own personal piano we keep for collectbwke value , maybe But .. a blindfold test may say a lot more as to which ‘Steinway’ an additional might prefer 🤗🙏🏾
I see Kawai's concert grands distinct even from their smaller grand pianos (Shigeru SK and regular GM/GL/GX). Kawai treats each concert grand as a research prototype and thus has no standard specification to follow unlike the smaller models such as the SK-7. SK-EX = Shigeru Experimental. You did show an interior photo of the Shigeru Kawai at 1:48, but Kawai is always making small tweaks to the scale design per each concert grand. When Kawai builds a concert grand, they use their latest data to come up with a frame design in Solidworks before actually casting one. The concert grand then goes through many experimental runs including tone sampling with the anechoic chamber. Once Kawai has enough data, the concert grand is sold, and the data is saved to help with their next concert grand build. Since it's a research product, Kawai would definitely put the upmost effort to build the best quality piano they can. Even the woods for the concert grand are dried much longer than their smaller grand pianos. Steinway on the other hand, tends to stick with their proven design. They might make small modifications and improvements, but it's hard to break away from something that's served them well for many years.
@@24mkim1 Yes it is. Kawai also has a regular EX as well. There are some differences between the two models, but they're both made through the same process and are very limited in quantity (less than 20 per year). I would guess that the SK-EX has features that trickled down to the smaller Shigeru models (SK-2 to SK-7).
3:28 I usually think of NY Steinway D as "bright" and Kawai as "sweet"... not sure how they did it. Maybe it is the steel of the string... like if they add some copper or zinc or titanium to the steel...
I'd say they have copied Bechstein as far as the frame is concerned. The sound of the Kawai is almost indiscernible from Steinway. Though I'd say the Steinway sounds clearer and appears to offer a finer and more nuanced play. The Kawai is warmer, more mellow and "richer". Funnily, I preferred the sound of the Kawai. Though if I had the chance of playing the instrument, I guess i would make the opposite choice.
I understand that a Grand Piano of just calibre is a choice that a pianist would make. As a pianist, I am drawn to a piano which has character and a warm tone. I played the Shigeru Kawai a few years ago and I must say, I really felt this sense of, please keep playing this Rachmaninov Préludes, Op. 23 I. Largo in F-Sharp Minor and not a shame to say that I was in tears whilst playing it on this lovely instrument! I had to literally come to a halt after finishing this rendition... As this Emporium also housed the Yamaha CFX III I played the Rachmaninov Po. 23 II. Maestoso in B Flat Major and what a trill that was even the people who stopped in simply enjoyed the rendition even getting applause which I felt embarrassed about as I'm a rather she person LOL ... My point is that no one is better than the other and it's that moment of feeling that the piano is a part of your well-being and also your other half of yourself. A few weeks later I tried this Steinway & Sons K312 I believe professional upright piano and I absolutely fell in love with it and I bought I. I specifically asked for the one I tried as all different from each other and also hand made.
Instruments are tested for their purpose! 1. Personal pleasure at home 2. A teaching /student nstrument 3. A chamber music instrument in a smaller intimate hall 4. A soloist instrument and accompaniment for performing singers/musicians 5. A soloist instrument with full orchestra Different instruments are optimised for one or more of these use cases. For each use case there is a "best"! Then, there is the "best you can afford"!
I am not a huge fan of some of the other Kawai pianos that have that hard edgy sound like a Yamaha, but in this video which obviously was mostly mid-range music the Kawai was warmer more complex and a much fuller sound than the Steinway which has a more fundamental frequency focused sound. I do find it interesting that the sound of both Yamaha and Shigeru Kawai concert grands are much different than the way their other pianos are voiced.
You might be more familiar with older Kawai's, as all pianos tend to get brighter as they age. I think people forget that the concert grands such as Yamaha CFX and Shigeru Kawai SK-EX are of course going to be prepared for professional pianists playing on concert stages, whereas their more cost-effective and entry-level models are geared towards hobby players not looking to spend past a certain price point, so of course their higher-end pianos will always sound better. I would definitely encourage listening to Yamaha's newer CX pianos and Kawai's GX pianos if you want to know what they sound like today. Even the small Shigeru Kawais are just as warm as the SK-EX.
I own a Kawai RX-2 and have played many Yamahas and Kawai. Yamahas are generally brighter and harsher than the warmer Kawais. That’s why I chose Kawai.
Shigeru Kawai SK-EX is priced substantially lower than Steinway's D274 but around the same prie as equally respected Boesendorfer 275 and Bluther Model 1. Which makes me wonder why only Steinway can get away in price class all its own ! I am taking exception for Boesendorfer Imperial which is in the size-class all its own.
would love to see a comparison between Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway. The MH has quite a different internal structure, with composite action, etc., so should sound very different.
I played a lot of different grands. Steinway is just "ok" to me. Of course the quality is good but the sound is kinda....normal I guess? Dunno. Hard to describe. Steinway puts almost all money in marketing that's why their brand is on top, but they are not the best pianos in my ears. The new Bechstein grands are way better, so are the Shigeru Kawais. Steinway coming in at spot 5 or 6 for me. Bösendorfer and Fazioli have also more soul.
At first I did not watch this because clickbait title, but I'm glad I did, it's a very good video. All asian piano factories have dissected Steinway line-up and tried to copy it to the last nut. Luckily they did not manage to do it, and had to develop own methods to make good instruments. They are good on their own right and we are happy to have different pianos available today. Of course the Steinway heritage is still visible everywhere, and rightly so, S&S is a great piano.
A lot of guitars look exactly the same, they even have the same bracing, same woods, etc. However, they might sound and feel completely different. That is the case between these pianos. In today's world, where manufacturing is quite amazing in places like Japan, you get top tier instruments. Honestly, even the lower tier Kawai's and Yamahas sound quite fantastic. I had a budget of 80k for a piano and played over 100 pianos blindfolded, just taking notes. After it was all said and done, I preferred a Kawai GL40, even over the Shigeru and the Steinway. It really comes down to how you connect with the specific instrument. I have guitars made in China that I prefer over some hand made guitars. Steinways are amazing pianos, but the world is so good at making things now that you'd be surprised what you find coming out of other nations.
Hey, the two have almost the same sound. I feel like the only difference is that the hammers are just harder on the Steinway than on the Kawai. Having harder hammers gives a louder sound and a more isolated frequency (less inharmonicity), you understand the melody better, but it is difficult to play softer. The kawai is perhaps looking for more inharmonicity, a dynamic range more in the softer sounds, better to play softer with its softer hammers, but hard to play louder. The bass sound is stronger/louder on the kawai. I think they must have put thicker strings and increased the tension to get a stronger bass sound. Can you measure them with a caliper? And at the same time, since these are two pianos with the same design. Can you take the Steinway action and put it in the Kawai. I'm sure you'll really get the same sound with the hard hammers of the Steinway on the Kawai xD! It would make a great final demonstration video that they are the same piano !
@@illyadelsarte Unfortunately, you cannot switch actions. Even if the design is similar, it is not the same. Kawai has carbon action, different type. Actually you cannot just switch actions between two identical pianos without huge adjusting.
There is a thing about comparing videos on RUclips on top tier pianos. The thing is - instruments are almost always not perfectly tuned and voiced. In that case comparison becomes a bit pointless, because a lot of character of the instruments just cannot be heard. If you search "piano voicing before/after", you may find a lot of videos about that topic and listen to the difference.
forgotten to mention that i like your own music, specially the the slow can could show the quality of the Kawai. The comparison to the Ferrari is actually more applicable to a Borgatto, what a petty that it costs twice as a Steinway. Would rather like to hear such a great treasure in a live concert. 🤩
Thank you very much. Also thanks that you listened until the slow piece and maybe further. Very appreciated. I have never played a Borgatto grand but love to do that .
So incorrect. Kawai copied no one. Quite the opposite, in fact. After listening to both of these instruments being played here, while both are very very nice, I think the Kawai has a much better/beautiful sound overall, and has a silvery pure quality that is missing in the Steinway. I think the Kawai wins hands down - such an exquisite sound - esp the pianissimo. Your original pieces were all incredible! Thanks for sharing. "Calm" was so utterly beautiful!
1:54 you know, when I tell that girl who copied my homework to change the answer somewhat before handing it in, she couldn't understand the answer and copied it word for word...
i own a sk2 so i'm biased. with a shigeru, it feels like mine, with a steinway, it feels like work. example shows the bass of the shigeru is so much better
Shigeru... Steinway is too boring, Shigeru is a little less uniform, has character. But it also only a variation of Steinway. Who can hear a difference between Steinway, Fazioli, Yamaha, Bösendorfer and Kawai in a blind test, when they are exactly tuned and regulated? I would like to hear pianos with real different sounds like before WWII.
Hello, yes, I think the same. But it is interesting to play Kawai. It feels actually more damped when you play it. But outside it sounds maybe a tad brighter. Yes, it has character. Thanks for you comment.
the title is definitely clickbaity but this is a great video showing the subtle nuances between the two amazing instruments. beautiful playing as well, I really enjoyed your compositions and the colors you bring out in the pianos.
Thanks. Yea, clickbite, but I really don't know how to get some views. My other videos usually have 50-100 views so I just pulled the trigger. :-) Thank you for your nice comment.
steinway is the only piano that do this method used by Steinway for over a century, the inner and outer piano rims are bent into the shape of the rim as a single continuous piece. C.F. Theodore Steinway developed and patented this method in 1878, and the same rim-bending process is still used today in our factories in New York City and Hamburg. shigeru looks similar but its not the same like fazioli and other pianos they all different to steinway but i dont say steinway is the best. but shigeru kawai is not a fake copy.
The Shigeru seemed to me to have a bit of a deeper & darker tone slightly … a little ‘bassier’ and slightly more forceful But they both sound wonderful
hi back to you with another crazy question. I had the opportunity to play shigeru kawaii sk7 and it seemed to me that the mechanics of this piano is much shallower than the Yamaha I know so far. I have never had a chance to play a Steinway that I heard has much heavier mechanics, could it be because of the difference in construction between the sk7 and the SK-EX? The SK7 is 100% plastic-carbon mechanics.
Shigeru is milk chocolate Steinway is 50% dark chocolate Steinway is less sweet. The first two bites of the milk chocolate is really sweet, but I don't feel like going for the third.
I tried to replay the video without watching, only listening, you can barely spot the Kawai which is slightly brighter and less baritonal. It seems they purposely tried to get rid of the poor part of the Steinway voice. The action can always be set up, but of course the Millenium III composite action will always be more precise and even than a wood one. And if you install the PTD mod. it's going to be the best action possible.
no, sk is just as special as c bechstein, the steinway is darker sk is cheaner and bechstein is brighter. the design is simullar, the kawai is crystal clear and bass is cleaner as well. Steinway ishas sharper sound and kawai is mellower aspecialy in bass eria. steinway is making boston in kawai fectory so it is kawai with steinway action. Steinway started copying shigeru. i played sk3 and steinway d was better becaus it is the d and the sk was sk3. For me, sk wins it is the best moder piano ever made. i sugesst to try estonia concert grand. it is steinway like warm and kawai like clean sound. What do you prefer?
Nice, thanks for your comment. I actually preffer Sk-EX even if all of my colleagues say it is a shit with a horroble action. Steinway is too universal and I like the action of SK.
I don't know folks. I have never had the pleasure of laying my hands on a Shigeru. However, I just a had fire in my house, and my prized GS-60 (6' - 9") that I bought brand new in 1992 for $12,000 because I could not afford a B, was just hauled out of here and sent to its grave - with Rachmaninov's Etude Tableau Op. 39 No. 5 imprinted on its strings - not quite up to tempo yet.... I bought it because of it's light and wonderful action, it's rich bass, the stunning sonority of it's middle and upper register. When I bought it, the thought was, that when I made enough enough money, I would trade it for a B. Being a successful engineer, I made enough money, but as the price of the B's skyrocketed year after year, I asked myself, why waste my money? You can talk all you all want about the Shigeru being a copy of a Steinway, but who was the premier piano manufacturer in the world prior to Steinway? Chickering. And who were the three top piano manufacturers in the U.S. that the Steinwegs went to work for when they arrived here from Germany: Chickering, Knabe, and Weber, before they established their company in 1853? And what manufacturer was established in 1854 that was so innovative, had a genius by the name of Richard Gertz who came up with designs like some sort of musical "Einstein" - designing and producing pianos second to none including Steinway for the next 40 or 50 years? That would be Mason and Hamlin. Unfortunately, with the advent of WWI, he was deported due to his German ancestry, a bitter and broken man. M&H eventually being acquired by Cable Piano in 1932. But they are back!! So if you want a Mason and Hamlin: to play it safe, as far as I know, pre 1932 or after 1989, or at least that is what I am told. That will be my replacement for my Kawai -- or a beautiful Baldwin SF-10 from the right era.... I do know that I love Kawai, and I will always love Kawai and I will always love Steinways, and old Chickerings, and Baldwins, and old Knabes -- each and every piano is so different as all of you know. This one on one comparison means very little to me. These two pianos, 10 years from now will both sound very different.......
Oh I was thinking geez not more static diatonic crap or post minimal stuff written by a classical pianist stuck in the past. I'm glad that's not what you're doing. It's Like decent film music.
The Steinway is more even and refined, pretty much perfect. The Kawai is a little tinny in the upper registers. The Kawai has more character but not quite as polished as the Steinway.
So the Steinway is 9' even and the Shigeru is 9'1". So basically even the simplest of measurements is different. The Shigeru SKEX is not cheaper than a Steinway. And the last time I looked almost every major piano competition has been won by a competitor choosing the Shigeru over the Steinway. Steinway is falling behind and being threatened by other manufacturers like Fazioli and Kawai (1st and 2nd at the Chopin International). Besides the action is completely different (Carbon Fiber) and even the length is different. But like every legacy brand they have fan boys talking about how their brand is the best. This guy knows nothing about pianos. Basically the Steinway is a Lamborghini from the 1970's and the Shigeru is a modern Lamborghini out performing the old 1970's design on the track.
oh can you play music pieces that are in the top 50 or top 100 classical pieces and you ask 100 people if they have heard of it before and 95 of them would tell you they have heard of it before? If people have heard of it before, they can better compare. Also, Für Elise is too much played... doorbell music is Für Elise, and the garbage truck in Taiwan's music is Für Elise... maybe something else... like Moonlight Sonata 1st or Pathetique 2nd... or something that even if people haven't heard of before, instantly can get a feel for it, like Raindrop, Chopin Waltz A Minor, 64, 2, 69, 2
You first of all call them both “great” pianos but then call the Shigeru a “fake Steinway”…this is unnecessary and ignorant. As a student we had Steinways in most rooms and I am very familiar with them. A good Steinway is a great instrument but more and more Steinways sound ordinary. The Shigeru was indeed designed to compete in the marketplace with Steinway and Bosendorfer and to this end it fails…BUT what has resulted is a piano that is more interesting tonally and unless you are playing a good Steinway, I would recommend giving the Shigeru attention. It’s fun! Also, demonstrating real instruments (not electronic ones) on the internet is pointless as even the best computer speakers or ear buds will not reproduce the subtleties of the sounds, nor will the listener feel the air move in the same way that it does in real life.
Maybe BEETHOVEN might have ordered the Shigeru’s action … with his ‘heavy handed’ power . I heard about he many pianos he destroyed after a performance … due to the smoky of force he would used whole playing .. ‘FORTE’
Steinway pumps these things out, which is telling of the fact that they use kiln dried wood. Shigerus take 15 years to make because the fact that the wood is naturally dried. on top of that, steinways are inconsistent due to not being selective of wood for density.
Similarities have all to do with law of physics being the same to all, and the development of an instrument through some 170 years. Speaking of a fake Steinway is a gross accusation. The Shigeru is the result of years of research, huge investment and an innovative approach. Not everything will have been developed from the scratch though. But a fake hasn't its own developed action, or the double duplex in the treble. The end result is very different from the Steinways, with a very own character. If it had been the purpose to make a Steinway copy they wouldn't have missed the opportunity, and saving the huge effort they have made.
Dear friend, please see in youtube SITKA A PIANO DOCUMENTARY, you know what is fake piano. Last Chopin Competition the first prize used Fazioli, second Shigueru Kawai EX.
Steinway is much more open, haunting, resonant. It is not a small difference. In copying some knowledge that Steinway has is missing in the Kawai. It is good but not exciting.
You are only the person I know who doesn’t appreciate Shigeru Kawai. Shigeru Kawai uses millennium fiber carbon action which gives you ultimate control, and hand rolled strings. Shigeru Kawai SK EX is NOT fake Steinway, but it is an excellent piano with its own character. Also the pricing is $241,695.00.
@@cassandraatsea I don't know how you deducted that I don't appreciate SK. After the clickbait name of the video? As I write "Top-tier grand pianos"? XD :-)))
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I played both really a lot before purchasing.
Many people talk about the sound, but as a professional pianist, it’s more about the touch and feel. Steinway is a great piano but after you play a Shigeru, it’s absolutely different. I would say the Shigeru has soul. I retried playing Steinway and it felt mechanical, when playing the Shigeru I could really feel the handmade qualities.
I chose Shigeru.
I had 100% the same experience. Steinways have no soul. They sound just "good" but feel not special.
Yes, indeed.
@user-xxxxxn do you really prefer NYC over Hamburg S&S?
@@sensoeirensen And this "good" is really bad. I can only speak of the sound, but modern Steinways are just brilliant, loud and cold. I've always preferred the sound of YAMAHA or old Steinways. For me Steinway is Liszt when he wants to show off, but you can't play Chopin-Nocturnes on them.
I had a similar experience comparing Steinway vs Shigeru. I bought a Shigeru SK-6 and am so happy with it. For the life of me I couldn't understand why all the Steinway Bs in the showrooms were so hard to control---the Shigerus handled like butter in comparison. Then I met a Kawai/Shigeru dealer who previously worked for Steinway. According to him, the amount of manual finishing in a Steinway, these days, is about one-seventh the number of hours that Shigeru dedicates to their pianos. That care and investment is what creates the superior touch and feel. Around that time, I also researched and read that over the years Steinway has changed management and ownership away from piano experts. It gave the impression that Steinway has turned into a money making machine, riding off their name and golden past, exploiting that to quietly reduce the amount of care and money poured into their newer makes---get away with as least production cost as possible. While I have no visibility into all that behind-the-scenes stuff, these informational tidbits strongly align with what I can directly experience, which is the quality of the instruments and their feel under my fingers. The story also matches what I've heard from many, about older Steinways or Hamburg Steinways---very different feel and playing experience. Anyway, I love my Shigeru. In addition to Steinway B, I also considered a Yamaha CF6 or Bösendorfer 200/225. But probably if I ever change, it will be to up-size to the SK-7.
The Kawai action uses modern composite materials. The Steinway uses all-wooden actions. The nice thing about Kawai is that you get the exact same action of the same size in all of their grand pianos (including their smaller grand pianos). So if you play a smaller Kawai the keys feel as if you are playing a concert grand.
I am a Japanese and living at Hamamatsu City, and each factories (Yamaha, Kawaii, Rolland) are within 20 Min Drive
Shigeru Kawaii Pianos were different from other usual Kawai Piano.
Shigeru KawaiI pianos were assembled at different special place, Named (Ryuou-Factory) Just like a Lake Side Villa, with relax condition.(with all hand made)
Engineers were not forced to hurry up. Time schedule were made by each engineers.
The Special Factory were protected by Mr.Kawai (Founder , Owner)and completely separated from other factories.
I do not know How Stein Way were assembled, But from my point of view, Shigeru-Kawaii Pianos are good case of somebody's EGO made good result.
(P.S. I sware I m just a private piano fun and no relation with piano seller)
Thank you for that information. I think Shigeru Kawai could be compared with how Toyota launched Lexus and Honda launched Acura.
Thank you Bohumir. I love both of these pianos and enjoyed your own compositions immensely too. There is differentiation particularly in the action as the Kawai EX concert grand action is made of carbon fibre apart from the hammer shanks and keysticks. The hammers on the Shigeru pianos are made from Merino wool coming from New Zealand and Australia. The Ezo spruce is harvested for the Kawai EX soundboard from Hokkaido, but I believe the Sitka spruce for Steinway instruments is sourced from Canada. To my ear the mid-range and treble tone of the Shigeru is just a little brighter than the same registers of the Steinway, but the bass of the Japanese piano is resplendent.
Thank you for your comment. Yes, it is my diletantism that I haven't mention the action. I knew about that - the action is black as coal. :-) I have the same opinion about the sound.
I was told that Kawai still has some spruce they bought before the WWII, and those are used in the top-of-the-line SK EX. Nobody has wood aged that long.
That Kawai has a beautiful timbre, whereas the Steinway sounds more like your "typical" grand sound - neutral, both are great of course, but as it comes across in the recording the Kawai easy win for me this time (using rather dark headphones though). Thanks for the beautiful playing.
Recently had the opportunity to hear the Shigeru Kawai played by a professional pianist and I got goosebumps from the sound. In live it sounds much fuller than a Steinway. It is a wonderful instrument!
The Kawai is outstanding, so clean!
Nice pieces,
Thanks for comparison!
I think it is very unprofessional, disrespectful, and naive to simply call the Shigeru Kawai SK-EX a fake Steinway D. SK-EX is a wonderful piano, masterfully designed and made by Japanese piano artisans and it is very distinct from Steinway in every aspect.
Unless what he's saying is true. It wouldn't be the first time Japan has done this: shamelessly copy something from western culture.
Remember that German products by the German technology is always the best in the world !! Just like comparing Benz to Toyota ! 👍 The Teutonic Brain 😊
I honestly think Steinway is overrated. Shigeru Kawai is my dream piano!
@@MusicalEssence Agreed!!!
@@SuperTrumpMAGA Steinway D-274= Mercedes-Benz S Class
Shigeru Kawai EX= Lexus LS
Finally a really objective review! Mic'd the same in the same room with the same piece(s). Seemless. And great detective work comparing the construction both pianos and in the fact that the Steinway patent has expired. They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, though I am sure if some good Steinway is used to everyone copying their design. The things that might be "different" are the woods used, age of the woods, crown of the soundboard, action, possibly coatings/windings on the strings. It would be interesting to hear from an RPT who regulated both pianos what they thought?
And great compositions, by the way! Love them!
Even compressed, it is true that we could hear the differences. Of course, the pure direct sound is the best, and that’s why we all would like to have a grand piano in our house (if possible), but this comparison was very interesting, and productive for me.
Why do you think, Maestro Pletnev returned to play piano by SK-EX? He said, he at last found the piano which could produce the sound he wants to produce by SK-EX and returned to playing pianos, while he once gave up.
The bass of S. kawai is better and more focused , mid is softer on kawai, high is clearer and projects in steinway. I love both piano! I also thinks the recording and editing of this video is phenomenal!! Best comaprison video I have seen in youtube thank you so much!
The Shigeru reminds me of the 1930's model D I played at my first competition and became my gold standard. I've played both brands before and prefer the Shigeru. However the best piano I've played on was a 1982 Bosendorfer Imperial, and remains my dream piano.
They both sound great. They may look the same but they don't sound the same. The Kawai has a warmer and fuller sound. The bass of the Kawai also sounds fuller. The Steinway has a brighter and louder upper register.
In my opinion, a Shigeru-Kawai is the best made piano in the world.
Kawai are producing other company brand piano(OEM). For example Steinway(Boston Brand),DIAPASON Brand and so on.
So,Kawai is familiar with other companies' designs.
Shigeru Kawai designed with advanced scientific analysis.
The cast frame is very similar to the Steinway, but the soundboard design is very different.(It's the thickest among the major piano manufacturers.)
This forms the unique sound of Shigeru Kawai.
I believe the cast frames are produced very differently. Steinway has a much longer cure time, rendering them far more sonically inert. You really don't want to hear resonance in a plate.
No, I do not think that the Shigeru Kawai is a fake Steinway. The bridge, plates and braces seem to be modeled after the Hamburg Steinway. However, the Shigeru uses different types of woods in the rim, uses a carbon fiber action vs. Steinway's wood action, and I think the soundboard woods are different as Ezo Spruce is used for the SK-EX and I believe it is Sitka used for the Steinway D. The big difference is Steinway is resting on its laurels and haven't made a new piano design in over 100 years. The Shigeru Kawai came out in 2000 or so and is aided by computer acoustical measurements, computer design even if it is made in a very traditional, slow, hand carved fashion like most great top-tier concert grands are made.
In terms of tone, the Kawai is darker, Steinway somewhat brighter and I feel the Kawai has more body in the tone. I don't think one is better and when it comes to top-tier grands, it's individual piano that tends to stand out. I like these two, the Bosendorfer 280 VC, Yamaha CFX and they've just come out with a Mark 2 version so Yamaha is continuing to upgrade and make new pianos, and Steingraebers, Bluthners and Bechsteins. I'm not sure about Fazioli one way or another.
I enjoyed your presentation, playing and compositions. Thank you.
Thank you for your great comment. I agree. Sorry for the name of the video. A little clickbait. :-)
And Shigeru Kawai gets it's inspiration from K. Kawai grand pianos.
@@someguyfromarcticfreezer6854 and K. Kawai uses a copied Steinway's design. The professional tuners at my academy say the same. They copied the design and changed materials and some details.
@@someguyfromarcticfreezer6854 And Koichi Kawai got inspiration from Torakusu Yamaha, his mentor and teacher. He was taken by Mr. Yamaha as an apprentice when he was 11 years old, where he probably learned first how to make organs. Torakusu Yamaha traveled to the US alone to learn how to make pianos, and he started building his first upright pianos when Koichi Kawai was 14 years old, and he built his first grand piano when Koichi Kawai was 16 years old. Koichi Kawai remained learning and working for Yamaha for 30 years. He left Yamaha and founded his own company, for which he worked for 28 years. So, he worked more time under Yamaha's vision than for his own company.
So how different is the scale design of the Kawai to the Steinway? I'm not even necessarily a fan of Steinway, but to say that they are stagnant is wrong in my opinion. While Steinways designs have remained the same, their production methods have not, and the components they use have different specifications in modern times. All this contributes to a tone that is distinctly different from an older "golden age" Steinway. If Kawai uses largely the same scale design but with different materials and components, then I don't see how they're any different.
Well, I think that Kawai has successfully reinvented the "Lamborghini" in this case.
I have to add that I have a preference for instruments with more bass, whether it's guitars, pianos, or any audio equipment that I buy. That's what I get from Kawai, too. 😊 Thanks for your review!
It's not Lamborghini vs fake Lamborghini. It's more like Lamborghini vs McLaren. They are different, yet can get you to the same place. I actually noticed some of the changes in Example 2 -- the Kawai is smoother, and not as harsh as the Steinway. But everyone has their own opinion.
An excellent comparison, thanks. I enjoyed your compositions too! Overall, listening to the video, there was not a great deal between them, but I bet when playing them oneself the difference is far greater. What I discerned was a greater level of harmonics from the Steinway in the middle section (as if each note had a treble control that was turned up a little for the Steinway), though when the notes were played 'sf' there seemed to be more from the Kawai! As one moved to the high treble, there was more sparkle from the Kawai. In addition, maybe the Steinway has a more powerful deep bass (with less brassiness) and perhaps it has greater dynamic range overall, but this is hard to tell as youtube no doubt compresses the recording.
One thing which did concern me with the Kawai was something that sounded like a buzz from the dampers coming down as you lifted the sustain pedal - listen to 15' 40" to 16' 15" and 17' 8".
I would need to play them myself of course to get a better idea (e.g. touch as well), though the recording quality was very good. However, from your video, I think I would be leaning towards the Kawai, but only just, though concerned about the buzzing from the dampers coming down in places (which I did not hear with the Steinway).
Have you played a modern (post 2010 ish) Estonia? That would be great to compare against.
In the piano world, I believe the title is clickbait ;)) Steinway is Steinway, Shigeru is Shigeru. It's more like when you compare a Porsche with a GTR, not a Lambo and fake Lambo. Btw, both are amazing.
I did try some of these noble pianos, the mid range in Steinway D has more detail than the Shigeru but not so different. Steinway did very well in creating a versatile instrument (not mean it's bad, very beautiful instead), that is why Steinway was chosen by tons of international concert halls.
But I fell in love with Shigeru when the first note of sonata 14 came up when I had a chance to attend a concert in Japan. Oh yes, the sound is exactly when you have a journey to explore under sea, dark, strong but still light as a feather. Personally, the comparison should be the stunning Bosendorfer Imperial 290 and the Shigeru. They share the common in the tone, can bring us various characters and fit with a solo piece rather than a orchestra-needed piece. However, I bought Shigeru, because 290 is far away from my pocket.
If there were only the two grands to chose from, wisely, a person would play several Steinway and several Shigeru before making a decision on which brand, and once that is decided play several more of the brand you chose. Hand crafted grands are definitively a craft of art, each with it's own character. In this demonstration, the Shigeru demonstrates a fuller colorful round tone and the Steinway is consistent with Steinway we hear so often.
Well, maybe it's not my day, but i found it really hard to differentiate between the two. Sometimes when i closed my eyes I didn't even realize that you switched the piano (excellent cut 😉). My vague impression is that the Kawai is a little bit brighter. But that is all I can say. Very nice pieces by the way :)
One thing that as always bothered me about Steinway's large grands D, C and B: The add-on bar to the frame. Because they are bolted on, my hunch is that some time in the 1880's it wasn't there and some technician came up with idea of that one stiffening diagonal member to be added. Thanks to Steinway's patent obsession, it became part to the "official" design. Notice that the Shigeru Kawai doesn't have it.
The fake Lamborghini sounds warmer and fuller
Should people redesign a wheel?
how do you compare new rubbers on the wheels today vs model T's wheels?
Steinway: Smooth, refined, neutral, controlled, matured, blending all registers, sounds like orchestral instruments
Shigeru Kawai: Clear, Warmth depth, Colourful, lush, emotional, wild, fuller rich sound. More bell-tone timbre. Just like vintage Steinway.
the Shigeru sounds much darker, the Steinway has something mor noble in the sound, more magic...
In terms of investment , one might choose a Steinway .., but in terms of practicality , in right choose a Shigeru for several reasons ..:
1- Less money … 2- A Piano that may last just as long … 3- New technology… (Kawai now use carbon fiber material in their actions … etc …) …. 4- The Shigeru might even be better built …: (like Mason & Hamlin ,, though a Steinway may hold more ministry 💰 collector value ) …. And the list may go onward … ….
There are even Baldwins that have been maid in as good or superior quality than some Steinways but may cost small fraction of what a Steinway would cost …
But Steinways are still really well built … especially the earlier ones …
But with any piano … no matter what brand or built the main ingredient will always be the condition of a particular piano
All pianos deteriorate in time ..::
And have to be rebuilt ..
Theirs Collectible value ….. and there’s practical & applicable value .
But a used or older well conditioned or maintained piano is really a very great value
It seems the Shigeru will be a very good value to have for a very long time …
For a player & performer &/.or recording artist the sound of an instrument will always matter more than one’s own personal piano we keep for collectbwke value , maybe
But .. a blindfold test may say a lot more as to which ‘Steinway’ an additional might prefer 🤗🙏🏾
I see Kawai's concert grands distinct even from their smaller grand pianos (Shigeru SK and regular GM/GL/GX). Kawai treats each concert grand as a research prototype and thus has no standard specification to follow unlike the smaller models such as the SK-7. SK-EX = Shigeru Experimental. You did show an interior photo of the Shigeru Kawai at 1:48, but Kawai is always making small tweaks to the scale design per each concert grand.
When Kawai builds a concert grand, they use their latest data to come up with a frame design in Solidworks before actually casting one. The concert grand then goes through many experimental runs including tone sampling with the anechoic chamber. Once Kawai has enough data, the concert grand is sold, and the data is saved to help with their next concert grand build.
Since it's a research product, Kawai would definitely put the upmost effort to build the best quality piano they can. Even the woods for the concert grand are dried much longer than their smaller grand pianos.
Steinway on the other hand, tends to stick with their proven design. They might make small modifications and improvements, but it's hard to break away from something that's served them well for many years.
Thats very interesting information! I'm wondering is sk-ex the shigeru kawai "concert grand"?
@@24mkim1 Yes it is. Kawai also has a regular EX as well. There are some differences between the two models, but they're both made through the same process and are very limited in quantity (less than 20 per year). I would guess that the SK-EX has features that trickled down to the smaller Shigeru models (SK-2 to SK-7).
It's very close, but for me, I still like the sound of the Steinway the most. It has that bell-ish, bright shimmering tones which I really like.
3:28 I usually think of NY Steinway D as "bright" and Kawai as "sweet"... not sure how they did it. Maybe it is the steel of the string... like if they add some copper or zinc or titanium to the steel...
I'd say they have copied Bechstein as far as the frame is concerned. The sound of the Kawai is almost indiscernible from Steinway. Though I'd say the Steinway sounds clearer and appears to offer a finer and more nuanced play. The Kawai is warmer, more mellow and "richer". Funnily, I preferred the sound of the Kawai. Though if I had the chance of playing the instrument, I guess i would make the opposite choice.
I understand that a Grand Piano of just calibre is a choice that a pianist would make. As a pianist, I am drawn to a piano which has character and a warm tone. I played the Shigeru Kawai a few years ago and I must say, I really felt this sense of, please keep playing this Rachmaninov Préludes, Op. 23 I. Largo in F-Sharp Minor and not a shame to say that I was in tears whilst playing it on this lovely instrument! I had to literally come to a halt after finishing this rendition... As this Emporium also housed the Yamaha CFX III I played the Rachmaninov Po. 23 II. Maestoso in B Flat Major and what a trill that was even the people who stopped in simply enjoyed the rendition even getting applause which I felt embarrassed about as I'm a rather she person LOL ... My point is that no one is better than the other and it's that moment of feeling that the piano is a part of your well-being and also your other half of yourself. A few weeks later I tried this Steinway & Sons K312 I believe professional upright piano and I absolutely fell in love with it and I bought I. I specifically asked for the one I tried as all different from each other and also hand made.
Instruments are tested for their purpose!
1. Personal pleasure at home
2. A teaching /student nstrument
3. A chamber music instrument in a smaller intimate hall
4. A soloist instrument and accompaniment for performing singers/musicians
5. A soloist instrument with full orchestra
Different instruments are optimised for one or more of these use cases.
For each use case there is a "best"!
Then, there is the "best you can afford"!
I prefer the Steinway. But the Kawai is excellent too
I am not a huge fan of some of the other Kawai pianos that have that hard edgy sound like a Yamaha, but in this video which obviously was mostly mid-range music the Kawai was warmer more complex and a much fuller sound than the Steinway which has a more fundamental frequency focused sound. I do find it interesting that the sound of both Yamaha and Shigeru Kawai concert grands are much different than the way their other pianos are voiced.
You might be more familiar with older Kawai's, as all pianos tend to get brighter as they age. I think people forget that the concert grands such as Yamaha CFX and Shigeru Kawai SK-EX are of course going to be prepared for professional pianists playing on concert stages, whereas their more cost-effective and entry-level models are geared towards hobby players not looking to spend past a certain price point, so of course their higher-end pianos will always sound better. I would definitely encourage listening to Yamaha's newer CX pianos and Kawai's GX pianos if you want to know what they sound like today. Even the small Shigeru Kawais are just as warm as the SK-EX.
I own a Kawai RX-2 and have played many Yamahas and Kawai. Yamahas are generally brighter and harsher than the warmer Kawais. That’s why I chose Kawai.
I think the D sounds more brighter than the SK-EX,the SK sounds more warmer and sweeter. What do you think?
Shigeru Kawai SK-EX is priced substantially lower than Steinway's D274 but around the same prie as equally respected Boesendorfer 275 and Bluther Model 1. Which makes me wonder why only Steinway can get away in price class all its own ! I am taking exception for Boesendorfer Imperial which is in the size-class all its own.
would love to see a comparison between Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway. The MH has quite a different internal structure, with composite action, etc., so should sound very different.
I haven't seen one MH in Europe. :-)
Switching in the video between the two confuses me, which instrument I hear .
WOW! Other than the brand and price tag, it is similar in sound!
I played a lot of different grands. Steinway is just "ok" to me. Of course the quality is good but the sound is kinda....normal I guess? Dunno. Hard to describe. Steinway puts almost all money in marketing that's why their brand is on top, but they are not the best pianos in my ears. The new Bechstein grands are way better, so are the Shigeru Kawais. Steinway coming in at spot 5 or 6 for me. Bösendorfer and Fazioli have also more soul.
At first I did not watch this because clickbait title, but I'm glad I did, it's a very good video. All asian piano factories have dissected Steinway line-up and tried to copy it to the last nut. Luckily they did not manage to do it, and had to develop own methods to make good instruments. They are good on their own right and we are happy to have different pianos available today. Of course the Steinway heritage is still visible everywhere, and rightly so, S&S is a great piano.
A lot of guitars look exactly the same, they even have the same bracing, same woods, etc. However, they might sound and feel completely different. That is the case between these pianos. In today's world, where manufacturing is quite amazing in places like Japan, you get top tier instruments. Honestly, even the lower tier Kawai's and Yamahas sound quite fantastic. I had a budget of 80k for a piano and played over 100 pianos blindfolded, just taking notes. After it was all said and done, I preferred a Kawai GL40, even over the Shigeru and the Steinway. It really comes down to how you connect with the specific instrument. I have guitars made in China that I prefer over some hand made guitars. Steinways are amazing pianos, but the world is so good at making things now that you'd be surprised what you find coming out of other nations.
Which mikes were you using?
@@pipipi682 line audio om1
Different sound : Steinway -like some part of sound -hidden in grand piano ,enigmatic. Kawai -all sound outside
Awesome bass on the Kawai
Hey, the two have almost the same sound. I feel like the only difference is that the hammers are just harder on the Steinway than on the Kawai. Having harder hammers gives a louder sound and a more isolated frequency (less inharmonicity), you understand the melody better, but it is difficult to play softer. The kawai is perhaps looking for more inharmonicity, a dynamic range more in the softer sounds, better to play softer with its softer hammers, but hard to play louder. The bass sound is stronger/louder on the kawai. I think they must have put thicker strings and increased the tension to get a stronger bass sound. Can you measure them with a caliper? And at the same time, since these are two pianos with the same design. Can you take the Steinway action and put it in the Kawai. I'm sure you'll really get the same sound with the hard hammers of the Steinway on the Kawai xD! It would make a great final demonstration video that they are the same piano !
Hello. Interresting point! I measure them when I am in the concert hall. (And if I don't forget)
@@BohumirStehliki edit my comment. if you exchange the action, i think, We're in for some surprises :-) !
@@illyadelsarte Unfortunately, you cannot switch actions. Even if the design is similar, it is not the same. Kawai has carbon action, different type. Actually you cannot just switch actions between two identical pianos without huge adjusting.
Well said
What is the title of “Example 4” in this video please?
Calm - you will find it here on my profile.
Thank you kindly for your reply.
There is a thing about comparing videos on RUclips on top tier pianos. The thing is - instruments are almost always not perfectly tuned and voiced. In that case comparison becomes a bit pointless, because a lot of character of the instruments just cannot be heard. If you search "piano voicing before/after", you may find a lot of videos about that topic and listen to the difference.
forgotten to mention that i like your own music, specially the the slow can could show the quality of the Kawai.
The comparison to the Ferrari is actually more applicable to a Borgatto, what a petty that it costs twice as a Steinway.
Would rather like to hear such a great treasure in a live concert. 🤩
Thank you very much. Also thanks that you listened until the slow piece and maybe further. Very appreciated. I have never played a Borgatto grand but love to do that .
So incorrect. Kawai copied no one. Quite the opposite, in fact.
After listening to both of these instruments being played here, while both are very very nice, I think the Kawai has a much better/beautiful sound overall, and has a silvery pure quality that is missing in the Steinway. I think the Kawai wins hands down - such an exquisite sound - esp the pianissimo. Your original pieces were all incredible! Thanks for sharing. "Calm" was so utterly beautiful!
1:54 you know, when I tell that girl who copied my homework to change the answer somewhat before handing it in, she couldn't understand the answer and copied it word for word...
One is a Steinway, the other isn’t. The Kawai is probably the better buy for most people, considering the price
“ In the next video we will be compairing 2 horses and see which color horse is always the fastest “.
i own a sk2 so i'm biased. with a shigeru, it feels like mine, with a steinway, it feels like work. example shows the bass of the shigeru is so much better
The Steinway sounds delicious to me. There’s no comparison.
Shigeru... Steinway is too boring, Shigeru is a little less uniform, has character.
But it also only a variation of Steinway. Who can hear a difference between Steinway, Fazioli, Yamaha, Bösendorfer and Kawai in a blind test, when they are exactly tuned and regulated?
I would like to hear pianos with real different sounds like before WWII.
Hello, yes, I think the same. But it is interesting to play Kawai. It feels actually more damped when you play it. But outside it sounds maybe a tad brighter. Yes, it has character. Thanks for you comment.
There is a huge risk in being different, that's why everything became standardized, even interpreting and performing.
Hi, what do you think about Sauter grand pianos?
I did play Sauter once. But unfortunately I don't remember. I played some uprights, that was good.
@@BohumirStehlik okay, thanks! 😉
Steinway sounds way better. What is the second piece you played? It’s beautiful!
Thank you. It is one of my short pieces called Farewell: ruclips.net/video/iIhSuB6UJLY/видео.html
the title is definitely clickbaity but this is a great video showing the subtle nuances between the two amazing instruments. beautiful playing as well, I really enjoyed your compositions and the colors you bring out in the pianos.
Thanks. Yea, clickbite, but I really don't know how to get some views. My other videos usually have 50-100 views so I just pulled the trigger. :-) Thank you for your nice comment.
What about Boston that is made by Kawai and Essex which is made by Pearl River. Fake Steinway even though it is designed by Steinway?
The fact is that kawai has a partecipation quote of Steinway in fact the shigeru is in featuring with the Steinway.
steinway is the only piano that do this method used by Steinway for over a century, the inner and outer piano rims are bent into the shape of the rim as a single continuous piece. C.F. Theodore Steinway developed and patented this method in 1878, and the same rim-bending process is still used today in our factories in New York City and Hamburg. shigeru looks similar but its not the same like fazioli and other pianos they all different to steinway but i dont say steinway is the best. but shigeru kawai is not a fake copy.
The Shigeru seemed to me to have a bit of a deeper & darker tone slightly … a little ‘bassier’ and slightly more forceful
But they both sound wonderful
Last piece somehow remind me Rach 2's 2nd movement😇
hi back to you with another crazy question. I had the opportunity to play shigeru kawaii sk7 and it seemed to me that the mechanics of this piano is much shallower than the Yamaha I know so far. I have never had a chance to play a Steinway that I heard has much heavier mechanics, could it be because of the difference in construction between the sk7 and the SK-EX? The SK7 is 100% plastic-carbon mechanics.
Shigeru is milk chocolate
Steinway is 50% dark chocolate
Steinway is less sweet. The first two bites of the milk chocolate is really sweet, but I don't feel like going for the third.
I tried to replay the video without watching, only listening, you can barely spot the Kawai which is slightly brighter and less baritonal. It seems they purposely tried to get rid of the poor part of the Steinway voice.
The action can always be set up, but of course the Millenium III composite action will always be more precise and even than a wood one.
And if you install the PTD mod. it's going to be the best action possible.
Shigero Kawai sounds better 💟
The Kawai is heavier becuase it has steel inside of the woo
d to prevent alot of warping
NO. Shigeru kawaii isn't fake stineway!!!!!
Shigeru is hand made and a luxury Lexus. It's a beautiful piano.
@@911Mitul Steinway is also handmade. :-)
The Shigeru blows away a Steinway. I have played both.
Enough Said but sorry I prefer Fazioli that is the Best
In my opinion the Steinway D sounds better. I like it’s brighter more powerful tone. The Kawai sounds good too though.
no, sk is just as special as c bechstein, the steinway is darker sk is cheaner and bechstein is brighter. the design is simullar, the kawai is crystal clear and bass is cleaner as well. Steinway ishas sharper sound and kawai is mellower aspecialy in bass eria. steinway is making boston in kawai fectory so it is kawai with steinway action. Steinway started copying shigeru. i played sk3 and steinway d was better becaus it is the d and the sk was sk3. For me, sk wins it is the best moder piano ever made. i sugesst to try estonia concert grand. it is steinway like warm and kawai like clean sound. What do you prefer?
Nice, thanks for your comment. I actually preffer Sk-EX even if all of my colleagues say it is a shit with a horroble action. Steinway is too universal and I like the action of SK.
@@BohumirStehlik i love the sound of kawai but actio from steinway.
did you just call a shigeru a fake lambo?
Are you insulted from my exaggeration and joke?
Если не смотреть видео, а слушать только звук - невозможно определить, какой инструмент звучит в данный момент.
Kawai (Shigeru) is the best!!!!!
The Steinway sounds darker, more colorful and deep. Kawai sounds generic just like Yamaha, not a term I want associated with any of my music
I don't know folks. I have never had the pleasure of laying my hands on a Shigeru. However, I just a had fire in my house, and my prized GS-60 (6' - 9") that I bought brand new in 1992 for $12,000 because I could not afford a B, was just hauled out of here and sent to its grave - with Rachmaninov's Etude Tableau Op. 39 No. 5 imprinted on its strings - not quite up to tempo yet.... I bought it because of it's light and wonderful action, it's rich bass, the stunning sonority of it's middle and upper register. When I bought it, the thought was, that when I made enough enough money, I would trade it for a B. Being a successful engineer, I made enough money, but as the price of the B's skyrocketed year after year, I asked myself, why waste my money? You can talk all you all want about the Shigeru being a copy of a Steinway, but who was the premier piano manufacturer in the world prior to Steinway? Chickering. And who were the three top piano manufacturers in the U.S. that the Steinwegs went to work for when they arrived here from Germany: Chickering, Knabe, and Weber, before they established their company in 1853? And what manufacturer was established in 1854 that was so innovative, had a genius by the name of Richard Gertz who came up with designs like some sort of musical "Einstein" - designing and producing pianos second to none including Steinway for the next 40 or 50 years? That would be Mason and Hamlin. Unfortunately, with the advent of WWI, he was deported due to his German ancestry, a bitter and broken man. M&H eventually being acquired by Cable Piano in 1932. But they are back!! So if you want a Mason and Hamlin: to play it safe, as far as I know, pre 1932 or after 1989, or at least that is what I am told. That will be my replacement for my Kawai -- or a beautiful Baldwin SF-10 from the right era.... I do know that I love Kawai, and I will always love Kawai and I will always love Steinways, and old Chickerings, and Baldwins, and old Knabes -- each and every piano is so different as all of you know. This one on one comparison means very little to me. These two pianos, 10 years from now will both sound very different.......
Oh I was thinking geez not more static diatonic crap or post minimal stuff written by a classical pianist stuck in the past. I'm glad that's not what you're doing. It's Like decent film music.
SK got its advantages. Steinway wins very hard.
The Action is very deference.
Stu Harrison testing out Sheguru Kawai.
The Steinway is more even and refined, pretty much perfect. The Kawai is a little tinny in the upper registers. The Kawai has more character but not quite as polished as the Steinway.
So the Steinway is 9' even and the Shigeru is 9'1". So basically even the simplest of measurements is different. The Shigeru SKEX is not cheaper than a Steinway. And the last time I looked almost every major piano competition has been won by a competitor choosing the Shigeru over the Steinway. Steinway is falling behind and being threatened by other manufacturers like Fazioli and Kawai (1st and 2nd at the Chopin International). Besides the action is completely different (Carbon Fiber) and even the length is different. But like every legacy brand they have fan boys talking about how their brand is the best. This guy knows nothing about pianos. Basically the Steinway is a Lamborghini from the 1970's and the Shigeru is a modern Lamborghini out performing the old 1970's design on the track.
oh can you play music pieces that are in the top 50 or top 100 classical pieces and you ask 100 people if they have heard of it before and 95 of them would tell you they have heard of it before? If people have heard of it before, they can better compare. Also, Für Elise is too much played... doorbell music is Für Elise, and the garbage truck in Taiwan's music is Für Elise... maybe something else... like Moonlight Sonata 1st or Pathetique 2nd... or something that even if people haven't heard of before, instantly can get a feel for it, like Raindrop, Chopin Waltz A Minor, 64, 2, 69, 2
You first of all call them both “great” pianos but then call the Shigeru a “fake Steinway”…this is unnecessary and ignorant. As a student we had Steinways in most rooms and I am very familiar with them. A good Steinway is a great instrument but more and more Steinways sound ordinary. The Shigeru was indeed designed to compete in the marketplace with Steinway and Bosendorfer and to this end it fails…BUT what has resulted is a piano that is more interesting tonally and unless you are playing a good Steinway, I would recommend giving the Shigeru attention. It’s fun! Also, demonstrating real instruments (not electronic ones) on the internet is pointless as even the best computer speakers or ear buds will not reproduce the subtleties of the sounds, nor will the listener feel the air move in the same way that it does in real life.
They are equal pianos!
Maybe BEETHOVEN might have ordered the Shigeru’s action … with his ‘heavy handed’ power .
I heard about he many pianos he destroyed after a performance … due to the smoky of force he would used whole playing .. ‘FORTE’
More like a Mercedes-Benz S Class and Lexus LS.
« steinway action is slightly faster »lol dude, the bias in you is just off the chart.
Mason & Hamlin and the Bechsteins of the last decade.
Steinway pumps these things out, which is telling of the fact that they use kiln dried wood. Shigerus take 15 years to make because the fact that the wood is naturally dried. on top of that, steinways are inconsistent due to not being selective of wood for density.
Similarities have all to do with law of physics being the same to all, and the development of an instrument through some 170 years. Speaking of a fake Steinway is a gross accusation. The Shigeru is the result of years of research, huge investment and an innovative approach. Not everything will have been developed from the scratch though. But a fake hasn't its own developed action, or the double duplex in the treble. The end result is very different from the Steinways, with a very own character. If it had been the purpose to make a Steinway copy they wouldn't have missed the opportunity, and saving the huge effort they have made.
Dear friend, please see in youtube SITKA A PIANO DOCUMENTARY, you know what is fake piano. Last Chopin Competition the first prize used Fazioli, second Shigueru Kawai EX.
Steinway is much more open, haunting, resonant. It is not a small difference. In copying some knowledge that Steinway has is missing in the Kawai. It is good but not exciting.
You are only the person I know who doesn’t appreciate Shigeru Kawai. Shigeru Kawai uses millennium fiber carbon action which gives you ultimate control, and hand rolled strings. Shigeru Kawai SK EX is NOT fake Steinway, but it is an excellent piano with its own character. Also the pricing is $241,695.00.
@@cassandraatsea I don't know how you deducted that I don't appreciate SK. After the clickbait name of the video? As I write "Top-tier grand pianos"? XD :-)))
3:40 , 3:53