I was at MWAVE and got to see the 2 modded 16K Christies. Grimanis massive screen (200” wide?) was calibrated to 100nits. The Ascendo rooms was on a 130”? and was calibrated to 220nits. Even at 100nits it looked great. The black level was very impressive. Grimanis system was amazing of course too, and Ascendo sounded great for the price and won the show IMO for “budget”.
You've worked hard for the low noise floor in the room so I hope that you are going to have a hush box for this even though this should be quieter than your old JVC.
have never seen a DV movie in the theater. It's funny because the new tech usually hits the theaters before the home theater. Now it's the opposite and probably will continue that way.
@@michael-4k4000 no that’s not correct. Dolby vision the tech in consumer gear is uniquely needed in consumer gear. But Dolby vision as a concept started in the cinemas. AMC Dolby Theaters are Dolby vision. When Dolby Vision was first shown, it was shown on a large super bright tv that was custom built to show off the hdr concept. But that was never a market product. It was a proof of concept. When that all translated into a set of technologies for different markets, Dolby Cinemas were the first to really get it. It took a bit of time before it was adopted in the general public. The bigger issue we have is that Dolby Cinema is limited to 108 nits. Not because that is the right number. Because that was the most they could get out of a pair of Dolby customized Christie Eclipse projectors. But as projectors get brighter, that will change. DCI already adopted 300 nits as the new HDR cinema standard. Dvleds will be doing 1500 nits in the cinema without much issue. And the sound issue will eventually be fixed. At least for cinema settings. But we’ve had 300 nit HDR tvs since its inception. Now we have 2000 nit tvs. There is some debate amongst experts and creatives around this. Is 1500 or 2000 nits really desirable. It can be painfully bright during certain content. The point remains. Consumer hardware could recreate the intent better than pro-commercial. Which is really just a matter of size. It’s a lot easier to get 2000 nits from 65” vs 300”.
Yes it’s a pixel shifter. Though keep in mind that wobulation will put all the pixels on the screen. Just not at the same time. As others have noted, put a DLP pixel shifted image up on a screen next to a LCOS or LCD true 4K and you likely will find the DLP higher resolution. DLP and the better lenses combine to provide a sharper image. But yes the Griffyn is that much better. I’ve only seen that model at shows. I won’t be able to review it in my house. It’s 220 only and I don’t have 220 in the room.
very exciting, sounds like fun. the eclipse requires quite the projection room, how do these projectors you're reviewing get mounted? What do they need power and room setup wise?
NIce rig. Did you call the electrician to upgrade the AC box panel for 220V and 30 AMP switch? You need to compare the Christie M 4K25 vs. the Sony VPL-GTZ380.
And also please can you test out Severtson TAT4K high contrast screen if you plan to try new screen as well. Because with the high light output of Christie M4K15 the combo of that high contrast grey screen gonna get you crazy depth in color while being crazy bright. And yes blacks too. Improved blacks deeper and richer blacks. If possible and you have time for that please do try it out. OH FORGOT TO MENTION. It is "ACOUSTICALLY TRANSPARENT" "WOVEN" "HIGH CONTRAST" screen.
We will get into this in the review. But you are mixing up concepts. These projector do offer proper HDR tone mapping. What I think you mean is dynamic tone mapping. The simple answer is that dynamic tone mapping isn’t all that common in projectors. They usually lack enough video processing abilty to do it. It’s also a feature uniquely needed in consumer content playback. These are business projectors that happen to work well for consumer playback. But would often be paired with an external video processor. JVC has dynamic tone mapping but that was relatively new in the last few years. Sony has it, but until this year is wasn’t very good. Epson just added it to their newest lineup. I would like to see Barco and Christie add dynamic tone mapping. But it’s not a huge loss.
Mr Poes, hope you can help. What screen size would you recommend for the JVC NZ900 before the M4k15 becomes visually a better option? given that most people use the JVC with the G4 1.3 gain screen.
That's going to be a personal brightness preference cut off, but if it were me, I'd say somewhere in the 160-ish" diagonal area before you're really needing those extra lumens to get some of your pop back. (I've seen the NZ900 on screens that were about that size, but they were solid screens. If your screen is an actual gain screen in the 1.15+ range, that 160" would be doable.)
@@MW-ii5nb I get that, but HDR pop is primarily a contrast PLUS brightness function, and what people prefer varries wildly. I personally know 3 people where one is fine with 150 nits on screen, another 300 nits, and another won't touch projectors because they're addicted to 1,000 nit brightness on their emissive display. What good is 98% P3 color coverage if your brain is saying "this feels too dim."
@@ryankramer Ryan, my personal preference 😁 and many others likely is to be objective/scientific about it, as we are not there to form a personal opinion anyway. It would be good to get an idea of contrast in dark medium and bright scenes, Hdr brightness, color volume luminence level. And do this using 3 or 4 screen sizes e.g. 120", 150" and Pose's max screen size, so to get an indication of what happens as the screen size changes.
@@MW-ii5nb If you’re not looking for an opinion… why are you asking Poe for one? I’m confused. The hand off between these two projectors on when it makes sense is going to be subjective. There’s no way around that. Contrast ratios are affected by laser output and the perceived contrast ratio vs brightness output tradeoff is going to, again, be subjective on what a person prefers. You can scientifically measure, but will you prefer 40,000:1 native contrast backed by 100 nits, or 10,000:1 native contrast backed by 300 nits? 🤷🏼♂️
Eagerly waiting for the Christie M 4K15 videos. The BEST getting used by the BEST. And seriously Eclipse is not that interesting considering how M series and Griffyn series are what even consumers with $100-200k for their theater setup can get. And that is now becoming a huge market. Eclipse is waaay too expensive. Only $1M theaters can afford that and seriously that is extremely rare.
Its criminal to not include dynamic tone mapping or the dolby vision tone mapping algorithm in these... These people buying these 60k projectors have no idea what hdr even is... Good luck trying to upsell them another 5k to front a madvr.
Hey Matthew, thanks for all the great content! 🎥 Had a question for you, I have an all Perlisten set up. S7T / S7C for LCR. S7Ts for side surrounds. R7T for back surrounds. Now, I want to add Front Wide Speakers. I found a good deal on another pair of R7ts. Do you think they would be a great fit? (timbre match, etc.) Or should I wait for a good deal on another S-Series speaker? . Thank you! 😃
I was at MWAVE and got to see the 2 modded 16K Christies. Grimanis massive screen (200” wide?) was calibrated to 100nits. The Ascendo rooms was on a 130”? and was calibrated to 220nits. Even at 100nits it looked great. The black level was very impressive. Grimanis system was amazing of course too, and Ascendo sounded great for the price and won the show IMO for “budget”.
You've worked hard for the low noise floor in the room so I hope that you are going to have a hush box for this even though this should be quieter than your old JVC.
Sounds awesome, maybe one day i could afford one, thanks for the info
have never seen a DV movie in the theater. It's funny because the new tech usually hits the theaters before the home theater. Now it's the opposite and probably will continue that way.
@@michael-4k4000 no that’s not correct.
Dolby vision the tech in consumer gear is uniquely needed in consumer gear. But Dolby vision as a concept started in the cinemas. AMC Dolby Theaters are Dolby vision.
When Dolby Vision was first shown, it was shown on a large super bright tv that was custom built to show off the hdr concept. But that was never a market product. It was a proof of concept. When that all translated into a set of technologies for different markets, Dolby Cinemas were the first to really get it. It took a bit of time before it was adopted in the general public.
The bigger issue we have is that Dolby Cinema is limited to 108 nits. Not because that is the right number. Because that was the most they could get out of a pair of Dolby customized Christie Eclipse projectors. But as projectors get brighter, that will change. DCI already adopted 300 nits as the new HDR cinema standard. Dvleds will be doing 1500 nits in the cinema without much issue. And the sound issue will eventually be fixed. At least for cinema settings.
But we’ve had 300 nit HDR tvs since its inception. Now we have 2000 nit tvs. There is some debate amongst experts and creatives around this. Is 1500 or 2000 nits really desirable. It can be painfully bright during certain content. The point remains. Consumer hardware could recreate the intent better than pro-commercial. Which is really just a matter of size. It’s a lot easier to get 2000 nits from 65” vs 300”.
The Christie Griffyn 4k35 is a true 4k projector, the M 4K15 uses 'pixel shift'.
Check out the Panasonic PT-RQ35KU, just installed and wow..... this could be a keeper.....
You will not be able to tell the difference, I saw the Benq W5800 Pixel Shift next to a JVC RS2100 / NZ7 4k Native.... The Benq was ALOT sharper.
Yes it’s a pixel shifter. Though keep in mind that wobulation will put all the pixels on the screen. Just not at the same time.
As others have noted, put a DLP pixel shifted image up on a screen next to a LCOS or LCD true 4K and you likely will find the DLP higher resolution. DLP and the better lenses combine to provide a sharper image.
But yes the Griffyn is that much better. I’ve only seen that model at shows. I won’t be able to review it in my house. It’s 220 only and I don’t have 220 in the room.
very exciting, sounds like fun. the eclipse requires quite the projection room, how do these projectors you're reviewing get mounted? What do they need power and room setup wise?
Are you getting the modified lens version or the standard version?
Should be interesting 😁
Does it run on 120v? I thought the big boys only get full performance on 240v. Though, might not be needed for your size screen.
NIce rig. Did you call the electrician to upgrade the AC box panel for 220V and 30 AMP switch? You need to compare the Christie M 4K25 vs. the Sony VPL-GTZ380.
Just picked up the Sony VPL-GTZ380 and am using my wall, it looks amazing.
No I am testing models that work on 110. 220 isn’t needed. Both the M4K15 and the 4K860-is can work on 110 at full output.
And also please can you test out Severtson TAT4K high contrast screen if you plan to try new screen as well. Because with the high light output of Christie M4K15 the combo of that high contrast grey screen gonna get you crazy depth in color while being crazy bright. And yes blacks too. Improved blacks deeper and richer blacks. If possible and you have time for that please do try it out. OH FORGOT TO MENTION. It is "ACOUSTICALLY TRANSPARENT" "WOVEN" "HIGH CONTRAST" screen.
Cheap TVs and Blu ray players can offer tone mapping so why not high end projectors?
We will get into this in the review. But you are mixing up concepts. These projector do offer proper HDR tone mapping. What I think you mean is dynamic tone mapping. The simple answer is that dynamic tone mapping isn’t all that common in projectors. They usually lack enough video processing abilty to do it. It’s also a feature uniquely needed in consumer content playback. These are business projectors that happen to work well for consumer playback. But would often be paired with an external video processor.
JVC has dynamic tone mapping but that was relatively new in the last few years. Sony has it, but until this year is wasn’t very good. Epson just added it to their newest lineup. I would like to see Barco and Christie add dynamic tone mapping. But it’s not a huge loss.
Is it going to be paired with the Christie ILS1 0.67:1 Short-Throw lens?
No I am setting them up on a large rack in the back of the room. More normal throw.
@@PoesAcoustics lucky lol
Mr Poes, hope you can help. What screen size would you recommend for the JVC NZ900 before the M4k15 becomes visually a better option? given that most people use the JVC with the G4 1.3 gain screen.
That's going to be a personal brightness preference cut off, but if it were me, I'd say somewhere in the 160-ish" diagonal area before you're really needing those extra lumens to get some of your pop back. (I've seen the NZ900 on screens that were about that size, but they were solid screens. If your screen is an actual gain screen in the 1.15+ range, that 160" would be doable.)
@@ryankramer thanks Ryan but its not personal preference you can measure things like color volume, contrast.
@@MW-ii5nb I get that, but HDR pop is primarily a contrast PLUS brightness function, and what people prefer varries wildly. I personally know 3 people where one is fine with 150 nits on screen, another 300 nits, and another won't touch projectors because they're addicted to 1,000 nit brightness on their emissive display. What good is 98% P3 color coverage if your brain is saying "this feels too dim."
@@ryankramer Ryan, my personal preference 😁 and many others likely is to be objective/scientific about it, as we are not there to form a personal opinion anyway.
It would be good to get an idea of contrast in dark medium and bright scenes, Hdr brightness, color volume luminence level. And do this using 3 or 4 screen sizes e.g. 120", 150" and Pose's max screen size, so to get an indication of what happens as the screen size changes.
@@MW-ii5nb If you’re not looking for an opinion… why are you asking Poe for one? I’m confused. The hand off between these two projectors on when it makes sense is going to be subjective. There’s no way around that. Contrast ratios are affected by laser output and the perceived contrast ratio vs brightness output tradeoff is going to, again, be subjective on what a person prefers. You can scientifically measure, but will you prefer 40,000:1 native contrast backed by 100 nits, or 10,000:1 native contrast backed by 300 nits? 🤷🏼♂️
Eagerly waiting for the Christie M 4K15 videos. The BEST getting used by the BEST. And seriously Eclipse is not that interesting considering how M series and Griffyn series are what even consumers with $100-200k for their theater setup can get. And that is now becoming a huge market. Eclipse is waaay too expensive. Only $1M theaters can afford that and seriously that is extremely rare.
The PJ 99.999999 of us cant afford😅
Given that 98% of the population already can’t afford a projector that isn’t saying much.
Do these use a ton of electricity?
No more than to be expected for what they are. These are 12,000 lumen+ projectors.
I’ll touch upon this all later in the reviews.
Its criminal to not include dynamic tone mapping or the dolby vision tone mapping algorithm in these...
These people buying these 60k projectors have no idea what hdr even is...
Good luck trying to upsell them another 5k to front a madvr.
So criminal!
imprison the employees of the company until DV is included?
lol. If someone has a 60k projector they probably have other TVs in their house as well…
If they can afford a $60k pj, they can afford a MadVR. I doubt that’s a hard sell.
Someone could say it's criminal to shell out 60k just for the projector and not the whole home cinema package. Different tiers 4show.
Hey Matthew, thanks for all the great content! 🎥 Had a question for you, I have an all Perlisten set up. S7T / S7C for LCR. S7Ts for side surrounds. R7T for back surrounds. Now, I want to add Front Wide Speakers. I found a good deal on another pair of R7ts. Do you think they would be a great fit? (timbre match, etc.) Or should I wait for a good deal on another S-Series speaker? . Thank you! 😃
Thank you for supporting my channel! I'll be recording a video and answering your question shortly.
@@PoesAcousticsThanks Matt :)