gen3 2650 vmp or gen 5 3.0L whipple 03/04 cobra?
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- Опубликовано: 11 дек 2019
- video on which blower would work the best for your desired use/ combination! vmp 2650 or the gen5 3.0l whipple , both blowers are well worth the money and both are proven to be very powerful! the gen5 all in all will currently be faster then the VMP in a all out build.
Pictures from the VMP website for the vmp blower and pictures from Lethal performance on the whipple! links to both companies below!
www.vmpperformance.com/VMP-Ge...
www.lethalperformance.com/inf...
Jakes car
2.3 tvs
• 8.70s - WCF @ MIR
4.0l whipple
• 8.6 @ 160 testing
• The Gingernator 2014
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Great video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on these blowers, and keep the content coming!
He's Back..
Had my motor pulled out out my 03 twin turbo cobra and doing a full build. Having a manley 5.0 strocker, port and polished heads from modular head shop with custom cams, holy dominator ecu, time to get rid of the custom made 01 cobra intake by Matt and switching over to a vmp 2.65. I can't wait to see what I make.
Keep us posted, would love to see results on the 4.6!
That's a lot of work jus to go 2.6 tvs leave the porting alone get Whipple 3.4 or 4l 1000+rwhp ez
@@crownvictorialifestyle4421 nah man them big blowers are not nearly as fun man especially on a 4.6 you lose alot down low and on the hit. The gen3r will make 1000 easily on a built 4 6 there is built 5.4s running over 1300 rwhp with them. They can make plenty of power yet they fit under a stock hood and you dont sacrifice the violence on the hit that so many people love and hate losing when going to a huge blower.
This is a great video. I have a stock 03 cobra and im really feeling the itch to swap the blower
Do it!!! You will love it!
Well you do have a trans brake. But that extra grand sure would be nice to put into the engine somewhere.
Another little side note. The Whipple crusher kit comes with the complete intake system and the TVS sounds like just blower and throttle body.
Yes before someone says it” mod nats has a all blower class” I was meaning make a class for those 2 blowers and limit them to the same boost levels.!
There's a video that VMP released recently of a 5.0 coyote with a vmp gen3r running 7.9 in the quarter mile. It was the final round at mod motor nationals 2019. Both cars in the final were boosted with the gen3r.
Yeah coyote and 5.4-5.8 platform both for sure can do 7s with the 2650, I think it could be done with a 4.6 but it’s gonna be hard. The gen5 3.0L whipple have gone 7.50s on the coyote platform
@@Wilsonandcars Yeah, they're both excellent options for boost. As you said in the vid, the gen3r is giving everyone a run for their money, and whipple's gen 5 is an absolute beast when it gets enough boost pushed through it. I have a question for you though; in your experience (or from what you've heard), which blower heatsoaks less? Obviously all s.c's heatsoak, but which handles it better? I've heard conflicting things about the gen 5 whipple. Some say they see no rise at all in their IAT2 temps, and others say the whipple heatsoaks bad. Even some YT vids out there where guys say they notice a significant decrease in power (with the whipple) after a few pulls. On the other hand I've never heard anyone complain about heatsoak with the gen3r. If you have any insight, I'm curious to hear what you think. And keep up the good videos, man!
On the coyote the gen5 whipple with it’s intercooler design helps with that a lot , on the gt500 and cobras I’d say the gen5s are pretty much about the same on heat soak as the gen3 TVS. I have no experience with this so that’s just going by theory. Someone like Lund or Alex (yolodouchebag) would be able to answer the heat soak much better then me.
Kenne bell car set record at Vegas mod nationals last year 7.23 at 197. No tvs car doing that.
@@darrenmcfeaters6683 how big was that kenne bell blower that ran that? I got 100 bucks says it was a lot bigger than 2.65 liters. Lets see a 2.65 liter kenne bell run 7s...ill wait...
Solid info. Thanks.
Great video. I'm looking to upgrade my blower in 2021 and I've had such a hard time deciding on what to buy. I wanted a VMP 2.3 but being that you can't buy them new it really sucks and the used market has them at over $3,000. Not paying that for a less efficient used blower. So that pretty much leaves me with the VMP Gen3R and the Whipple 2.9. I'm building my Cobra as a street car and I really do want that down low punch and it seems like VMP offers that more so than the Whipple. I also like the removable elbow on the VMP plus I think it looks better than the whipple but that's me. I was told by one person that the VMP Gen3R was going to be too much for what I want ( 93 octane build with around 650 HP not drag raced ) but he then suggested getting the 2.9 whipple which is even a bigger blower so that didn't make sense either. As far as I know the only difference between the Gen3 and Gen3R is a better inlet so I don't see how that would push the blower beyond what I really want to use it for.
Gen3R great blower , buddy just put one on ! His car is stock long block but we did do a fore fuel system and E85 .. I honestly would do the 3R before a 2.9 whipple on a street car with a manual trans.
@@Wilsonandcars That's what I'm really leaning to now. Plan is to buy a Fore return fuel system pretty soon. My pumps are already maxed with just doing a 2.76 on my Eaton. Plus I don't want to screw around with doing a boost a pump I'd rather do it right and just do the return system considering it future proofs down the road. Do you happen to have any numbers on what power your friends car made and what other mods were on it?
His car is legit stock 25k mile on the car with just blower , fore fuel system dead head , with I’d 1000 .. Kevin Dunn tuned it remotely, never been on dyno . I would say it’s high 600 low 700s on 18#
@@Wilsonandcars Awesome, I'm buying the Fore fuel system through Kevin. High 600-low 700 is right where I'd like to be with this build. Shouldn't be too much of an issue getting there. Is he running the 3.2 pulley on it?
@@Lethal_Venom I want say 3.0, I forgot we put ARH long tubes and 3” x on his car that drop the boost down 2-3#
Gen4-5 Whipple gets it done though. VMP is a great blower, I had a 2.3. The violence with Whipple down low is plenty as well. They made great strides with the 4 and 5 revisions.
I heard the defunct VMP Gen 2R (2300) hit the hardest and is/ was the best choice for stock bottom end cars.
I talked to VMP and they’re making a Gen 3R for the cobra in conjunction with Magnuson. I don’t know the release date.
That’s good news!
Which ya'll recommend the VMP ODIN or Whipple 3.0 for max torque down low in a 2014 6 spd GT Track Pack w/3.73. I probably won't go above 6.8K RPM. Would be awesome to hit 600 ft. Lbs at 2000 RPM. Also the 3.73 has to go, 1st gear is useless. what say 3.3 or 3.5? Would be fun to cruise 80 at 1600 RPM.
Can you explain the RPM limit problem with the stock Cobra computer? I've previously heard that it'll work fine to a bit over 8k. I understand that it's a clock speed limitation, but wouldn't it either work or not work when the rpm is too high? Mine is at 7200 right now, plan on going to 7500. It doesn't seem I'd benifit from an aftermarket ECU unless I go even higher.
Im not aware of anyone running 8k on a 03/04 cobra ECU , with that said doesn’t mean someone hasn’t . Typical issues I’ve seen Is breaking up , and accuracy of firing events. People now are using I believe a MOD 6 box to control timing on stock ECU cars and high rpm setups. A aftermarket ECU is just a lot more repeatable and accurate imo and allows things to be more customizable.
So from the people I know who have them the 2650 has massive power rob, and the 2650 runs hotter than the 2300 and thusly VMP is making a 3R because the regular 3 runs out of steam because the case is a restriction.
Now the TVS has many pros in design but the Whipple rotors are much MUCH more efficient in the Gen 3, the reduction in rotor temps on the gen 5 vs gen 4 is massive.
My 03 cobra VMP with the gen 3 (3.1 upper pulley) on 93 did 620 & 582 tq. I was happy with the results. Fixing to switch to E85 and a smaller pulley soon.
The only issue I have with my VMP is it don’t seem to whine loud like the whipples, KB’s , or even the Eaton. I’m hoping when I change to the smaller pulley it will solve my problem.
My whipple gen 5 on my 2018 is dead silent cant hear anything , im probably going to do the sound tube mod
Would you recommend Whipple gen 5 or Kenne Bell 3.6 for a coyote?
I wouldnt go with a 3.6 on a coyote the big blowers dont do that good turned down and its gonna have to be turned way down especially if its a gen 1 coyote but really any stock motor coyote. Between those id go with the 3.0 but if it were me id do a gen3r on it im just a TVS guy the whipple is a great blower too the 3 liter is a newish design so you cant go wrong with it but id lean toward smaller blowers especially on a stock coyote which means boost levels will be really low.
Is that GEN 5 3L too much for a mostly stock 04 cobra convertible? Should I just go with a 2.3 Whipple?
A gen2r would be more fun street car , little cheaper . Probably make upper 500 whp maybe low 600s on 93 octane , with supporting injector and fuel pumps. The Gen5 will work well though with a stock car with supporting fuel mods. The gen3R is being released ,that’s what I suggest for a street car that wants a little more power over the 2.3 gen2r.
G5 3.0 Whipple FTW, but im bias. lol
Whipple and done
is the hit as violent on the 2.65 vmp gen3r compare to the vmp gen2r
My buddy says it absolutely does , we just switch him from a 2.3 to a 2.65 3R.
Don’t know from experience but I’ve been told the gen5 is really lazy on lower boost. It loves to spin!
Roots design is still less efficient than twin screw. TVs is better than old 3 rotor 60 degree twist. But gen 5 outshines the 2650. Seeing better numbers out of the whipple. 22000rpm=heat. Old tvs spun that fast. Whipple is carb approved and has executive order numbers for use public streets in all 50 states. Saw 1207hp with just a 2.75 upper and stock lower on 2018 Gt with whipple and E85 all the way to 8500.
Its 3 liters vs 2.65 liters if it didn't outperform it id say there is a big problem especially considering you and everyone else says its "more efficient". It's more efficient yet has to be significantly larger in displacement to best the tvs. The new tvs blowers is nothing like the old roots blowers eaton put on stock 03 cobras and 07 shelbys. This is 2021 stop with the twin screw = more efficient nonsense. How much more proof do you need that displacement for displacement tvs outperforms Whipple in every way.
Weird. Every time VMP tries to go bigger it flops. Whipple dominates the market now. VMP has its place but “it’s 2023” and yes, it’s more efficient. It’s bigger and can keep up with displacement. Boost for boost is bs, they have different applications.
I make 27# on a factory longblock with a 3.5 upper 4# lower. TVS can’t do that. It puts out 850hp and runs consistent 9.5’s with a T56. A mediocre 1.4 60’ and 3650 pounds. It’s also been 153mph. Not a VMP faster in that form. But I’m still waiting.
Any word if the 3.0 w/3.5 upper can fit a stock cobra hood?
No issues with the 3.5 pulley and stock hood , the elbow has been known to rub on the back side of the hood slightly under throttle.
@@Wilsonandcars thank you sir
I brought a gen4 from Lethal few months ago...wonder if I can swap for gen5
That be sweet if they would.. I wouldn’t worry that gen4 is one bad mofo.
22000rpm is the limit on the 2650 tvs.
What about Kenne Bell?
I’m not a huge kenne bell fan to be honest at least on the 4.6 cobra engines. The 4.2 up blowers are great though .
Does the 2.9 really not hit hard?
Whipples in general dont seem to hit hard. Feel like a centrifugal vs the TVS blowers that hit hard at low RPM
Whipple hits harder. And the gen 5 3.8 whipple will set the stage. TVs has to be spun faster to compete.
Yes and the whipple and kbs have to be alot larger to compete...the 3.8 isnt anything special for its size the 2.65 tvs isnt that far behind all things considered. Prob isnt much more than 100-150 whp difference between max effort setups. The 2650 TVS was making about 100 rwhp more than the old 2300 TVS just for comparisons sake. That is a .35 jump in displacement...the 3.8 whipple is more than 3 times the difference in size (1.15 liters larger) yet isnt seeing that much of a difference as far as a performance jump and that is the best of the best that whipple has to offer and is the newest design so none of that well its an old design crap. Plain and simple displacement for displacement the TVS cannot be matched by the twin screws they have to be significantly larger to hold an edge over the TVS these are facts. This isnt 2003 anymore twin screws arent beating up on eaton based blowers anymore.
You are correct. And the Gen4-5 dominates the VMP. Don’t listen to paper pushers. TVS can’t go any bigger than 2.65, it doesn’t make the steam. Sorry Lil Ike.
I went with whipple just because it's made here in the USA. Their customer service really sucks ass tho, guess that's what happens when you get too big and people there just go to work to put in their 40 hours.
when you say violent hit you mean at full throttle
Is this a serious question? Lol. Why would the hit be violent if youre not wide open?
*edit*
On the "hit" is referring to the moment at which you first crack down on the throttle 100% and it jumps forward and slams you in the seat...the tvs is known for being violent on the "hit" so yes that means at WOT
@@midnight347 lol i know what wot means i just never heard that term hit i wanted to make sure it ment wot thanks for clearing that up