We take a look at the termanial ballistics of the m193 ball also known as 55gr 5.56 and how it performs with varraying barrel legnths and at distance for each barrel.
I enjoy the side by side comparisons using different barrel lengths. I got more information out of this one video then I have by watching a slew of videos over the past two weeks.
@RG JR: Totally agree!!! Very informative video with detailed, pertinent information easily broke down into easy-to-understand graphics and video clips.
This is by far the best and most informative video on the subject. Days and weeks of searching online in 15 minutes. I don't think you ever made the m855 video. Don't stop making them. After hundreds of videos watched on this subject this one is #1. Subscribed.
We never published the m855 results as we were not happy with the quality or details. We have been spending the time improving protocols and gear for a better quality video.
I see a lot of comments along the lines of "Why doesn't the military do this research?" and "I've been looking for this info forever!" The military DID do this research, and furthermore, they did it during the Vietnam war. And furthermore, it isn't secret. It's publicly available, and you can look it up. COL Martin Fackler, M.D., who was the Director of the Wound Ballistics Laboratory at the Letterman Institute of Army Research, published his findings, and you can look them up online, including the photographs of fragmentation at varying velocities. That said, this video is the first time I have seen someone confirm Dr. Fackler's research with ballistic gel tests, so this video was still VERY informative for me, and I'm glad it was made. Excellent work. It confirms Dr. Fackler's research which showed that M193 bullets (which are NOT the same as target FMJ bullets, for those who are wondering... it is a completely different animal with a much thinner copper jacket than target FMJ and a much deeper cannelure) reliably fragment (i.e., break at the cannelure and further fragment) at 2600 FPS and above. Your tests confirm this. Thank you for doing this video.
Thanks we have planned to do more like this for some loads where the data hasn’t been published sadly we just haven’t had the time to get back to it yet.
10.5” are meant for cqb anyways, 100m is pretty good actually. The damage from M193 out of a 14.5” or longer can be devastating and is certainly better then any handgun round. I do think a 7.5” barrel is just a range toy though.
in that case if you can make the hits then its all about shot placement. A 5.56 through the vital organs is going to be lethal regardless is it frags or not. But if I knew I was going to be in a 400yd battle I'll take a 16". I personally only have three 16" AR's and one 14.5 pinned AR myself. I do have the itch to do a pistol build but I'm thinking a 11.5".
Ben White from the research I’ve done 12.5 and 14.5 inch barrels are almost the exact same muzzle velocity. I said almost but the difference isn’t really worry some. So is it safe to say that the 12.5 would have the ability to fragment out around 100m? I mean either way if I plan on fighting past 300 a shot to the lung is gunna do wonders regardless frag.
This is very helpful in helping me with no development from 10 and a 1/2 inch up to 24 in 1:8 & 1:9 twist rates. Would love to see lighter grains with the shorter barrels. In any case, thank you so much for the work you do, it's proven VERY helpful!
I appreciate these videos also. Recently saw a demonstration where 193 ball was shot out of a 16” carbine and put a big dent in a steel target, but then a 20” barrel was used and it knocked a hole clean through. Kind of makes me want a 20” barrel! I have a video posted where we tried different rounds out of a 16”….at 25 yards, the 77gr match seemed most effective on a pork shoulder.
That 7 inch tumbled and looks like it did more damage than premium 9mm jhps and is over 2100 fps the threshold of human elasity for temp wound cavity ripping, I'd say the tumble factor is what causes the wounding, fragmentation is just a bonus. That and velocity imho
I loved it. I have seen every video and read everything I can get about m193 and m855 plus my own informal testing. I had always read that the minimum velocity required for fragmentation was 2,450 fps...it's awesome that your tests confirmed that. I can't wait to see how the m855 stacks up vs. the m193. I've got a few piles of both, just in case! Have an awesome day
I would never even think of using a 55 grain bullet in my 7.5” barrel. It would be nothing short of MK318 or MK262. They are far less velocity dependent than M193..
Exactly but using it here gives us a base line for velocity decrease terminals and a baseline for when we get time to test heavier bullet loadings terminal ballistics
I saw someone on a forum post 2600 for minimum fragmentation velocity. I think it may have been M193s. I'd say that's consistent considering. Pretty cool.
Good stuff. There are important factors with the 5.56 to consider and test. Bullet type, barrel length and twist ratio, barrier and target material, target distance, altitude, wind, and probably more. Thanks for showing us the test!
Very well done video. Thanks for doing this testing. I would really appreciate a video in which you tested the accuracy of varying loads out of different twist rate barrels. I have found a lot of conflicting information online about this subject and I’m really trying to get to the heart of the matter for whether M193 will shoot accurately out of a 1 - 7 inch twist barrel
As for testing the different twists that would be difficult to do a direct comparison. But as to a 1:7 twist it will stabilize at 1:7 and not be overdriven enough to destruct. In theory a 35-40gr bullet may have issues out of a 1:7. That is one video we plan on attempting to pull off it’s just attempting to nail down where the bullet would destruct and attempting to get video of it occurring.
Good presentation. Short barrels heavy soft point might be better than ball. I used to test bullets using water filled furniture foam in half gallon milk containers. It acted very much like muscle tissue. I did tests with first generation Sierra hollow points with most not opening at all. 45 ACP and 357 Mag. I was able to take the samples to the then Sierra Production manager at a NSGA show in Chicago along with Elmer Keith who was a family friend. That was the start of Modern High performance Hollow points in heavier weights than Super Vel was churning out. Sierra did a major rethink and redesign based on my limited testing and Elmer's backing.
Agreed in a short barrel a heavy projectile would be more effective than the light one used in this test we hope to get things aligned to continue this series with heavier projectiles in the spring using an improved testing setup and higher quality video including true highspeed
Why the HELL haven't I been graced with this channel until now?!? Amazing content! Also, it's wild that the one round captured looks identical to most captured softpoint and some hp rounds.
Thanks this video was one of our best projects and we hope to find time to keep doing testing like this but with upgraded equipment and protocols to get even better data. After doing this test and publishing it we found the old army test data testing the same projectile and they came to the same results on velocity needed for the projectile fragmentation
@@LFDResearch very cool! After watching this video I of course went directly to your channel and found lots of great stuff! I really like all the informative stuff the most by far. I did notice that it's been a whole year since your last post. Looking forward to whatever the future brings!
Wow good stuff man, very thorough. I’m not sure if you use a script, but if not I think it may help with smoothing out the points you make while talking. Not bad at all, definitely worth the watch! Keep it up!!
This is exactly why the Marine Corps trains with 2 shots placed relativity close together. The first shot "sets" the permanent would cavity and the temporary wound cavity from the second shot causes all those cuts to rip and tear in spectacular fashion.
55-grain ball is what I use for home defense. Its coming out of the barrel at better than 3 grand and obviously does some serious damage. Not that it makes any difference at 7 meters (the average distance of a defensive shooting), but I use 5.56 for defense and .223 for practice or plinking. There might only be about 100 FPS difference, but I'll still hedge my bets with a slightly hotter round. 5.56 or .223, that 55 grain FMJ is absolutely adequate for self defense, especially at 10 meters or less.
If the pmc fmjbt you are asking about are 55gr the bullet construction will be nearly the same to this test or close enough for the shatter point you cannot tell the difference. The only difference may come in at the muzzle velocity of the loading. We do have plans to get into testing higher end projectiles at some point.
True it was designed around the 1:14 twist but that was borderline so they upped it to the 1:12 we were testing what happens in todays modern guns with a 1:7 twist the terminal results we achieved mirror what was found by the us military back in the day. But there is the secondary fun factor of not every company’s twist rate is actually what they say or list 224 val exposed that there can be close to a 1” variance in the twist rate and the companies are just rounding down to the lowest full number
That’s basically the 14.5” setup we used except it was a 1:7 twist. The only change I would expect is you might see a slightly shorter neck than this testing
So, every 10 yards the round is losing (on average +/-)30-40fps regardless of barrel length? and if Im seeing this right, you are losing apporx10fps at the muzzle for every inch of the barrel after a 3200fps start from the 18"? do the twist rates make any difference on velocity or is the twist rate basically a stabilizing force on a round, and doesnt have an impact on velocity? Im not sure if the charts take the different twist rates into account which is why Im wondering if that would make any difference...and in the end effective terminal performance with barrel length and range of impact. So if this holds and I got it right, I can do the math for an 11.5 barrel(or whatever) velocity at whatever range(any range in 10-yard increments) and only be off by less than 1%-2% of the actual value. Thanks!
This is what we were getting for test data on the barrels we tested each barrel tested was 1:7 twist and should mostly be a stabilizing force on the projectile. I am not aware of any in depth looks into what happens to terminal performance with different twist rates and shorter barrels. We do know from some of the earlier rifle military testing the slower rifle twist rates used like 1:14 and 1:12 the projectile was less stable and would tumble far more easily when disturbed in flight. In theory that could have it beginning to yaw earlier in its terminal phase and more likely to breakup possibly at a lower impact velocity. But as stated before that hasn’t been tested to my knowledge.
Looks like the standard 16" barrel should yield good terminal ballistics. I chose 16" barrels for my AR's so I don't have to pin and weld my muzzle devices onto them. I also prefer the 16" barrel length because it's still short enough to be a good length for CQB or home defense, while still providing good terminal ballistics out to about 190 yards. Since I don't think I'll be encountering any threats beyond that distance, that's the ideal barrel length for me. That's probably why our military went from the longer 20" to the shorter 16" barrels for their standard issue barrels. That keeps the gun light, easy to maneuver, while yielding great ballistic performance from standard issue ammo. Today, the longer barrels are primarily used for SPRs; I'd prefer a 308 (AR-10) variant for that purpose. I just don't feel the AR-15 was intended to be a sniper rifle, or for that matter an SPR. If I'm going to carry more weight, I expect to gain a very significant advantage for that added weight. Just my two cents.
Eric Coovert omg thank you, yes you are correct at least I think so. people keep bitching about velocity out of a m4 14.5 inch barrel but one of the reason the invention of an assault rifle is because most engagements are 300 yards or less. You have plenty of velocity out of 16 inch barrel.
Have you tried velocities from the 2017 and newer lc m193? I have heard federal/lc have dropped about 100 FPS on the newer stuff not sure if it’s bs or not
I'm not sure why the 18-20 inch barrels were considered, since the most popular AR-15 barrel lengths are 16.1 and 14.5. Obviously, if the 14.5 is doing alright at up to 2,600+, the 16.1 would be as well (with even slightly higher impact velocity). Still, impacts and velocities of the 16.1 inch would've been much more relevant. Clearly, the 5.56 NATO is a killer above minimum fragment velocities, and 55 grain is the sweetheart weight out of carbine lengths to 200 yards max. That's what it's for. It also means it's silly to spend money for anything beyond M193 ball 55 grain. Thanks for your work on this.
Great video, my only issue is that you used the same block for the first two which slightly compromises the second shot, but really this isn't exactly a scientific study just a small point. Liked the video, very informative :)
What about Hornady TAP? I'd like to know what to choose for a 10.5 suppressed rifle. I don't need distance beyond about 100 yards, but 200 would be nice. What's important is the "down the hall" distance. Can I get a 10.5 barrel AR with 200 yard performance and also catastrophic damage to home invaders?
+Sean Sorrentino We will add that to the list after we have completed the us military loadings. I suspect the performance may be similar to MK262 witch will be the third round we test.
Goooodddd DAMN! How the hell did you get over 3100 fps with the 14.5?!? I've been trying to stack imi M193. Have you ever chronographed this round? I'm curious how far the imi would be effective through my 14.7".
Muzzle velocity will vary from gun to gun chamber bore external air pressure and temperature all will have some effect this testing was done in summer so tempature would have been around 85-95° F at 1200 feet above sea level both of those can contribute to faster velocities but not normally beyond 1-200fps. I have used the imi 193 loading but never did an in-depth testing of its velocity or consistency
That would be neat to see. One thing to keep in mind the clear blocks are fully synthetic and behave differently than what we are using. This is the same exact test medium developed and used by the fbi for their testing. The clear blocks will expand and retract differently that’s why you can and will see compression ignitions in them that will not occur in this medium.
LFD Research www.midwayusa.com/product/101629790/barnes-precision-match-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-85-grain-open-tip-match-box-of-20 These 85grain otm are claimed to be mag loadable. Wonder if you could test these. Like a mk262 on steroids?
Yes it will make some difference we tested for the most stabilized version with the modern twist rate. We would like too eventually test how the different twist rates affect terminal ballistics.
Shouldn't affect terminal performance but a 55 grain projectile sometimes seems to be a little less accurate from 1 in 8 or 1 in 7 twist barrel compared to a 1 in 9 or slower twist rate
This was the American Eagle m193 and we tested the down loads twice once with Hornady 55gr fmj’s and once with bullets pulled from the American Eagle with identical results
@@LFDResearch Thanks for that info. Since lot of people complain about the effectiveness of he 9mm and the performance of the 5.56 out of a 7.5in barrel is similar, I'll have to go with a 10.5in barrel to get improved performance.
Standard 5.56 was designed to be shot out of a 20inch barrel. The FMJ rounds, they are highly dependent on velocity. Also, the powder doesn't burn all the way in a shorter barrel like a 16in, 14.5in, ect. There are 5.56 rounds than can be used in carbine, pistol, length uppers. Good video though
The 5.56 55gr M193 Round. So shitty, weak and seldom good enough to use for killing miniature poodles that the Soviets ditched Their beloved AK47 chambered in the mighty 7.62x39 for the 5.45x39 and the AK74. They weren't trying to mimic the Americans. And NOOOOO Kalashnikov wasn't lucky Hugo Schmeisser designed and fielded the STG-44....I hear Schmeisser stole the STG plans from looking at Kalashnikovs AK47 blueprints. Just like how the Americans copied the MIG-29 and came out with the F-15. Anwyays...... It'a almost like the photos and field reports of catastrophic wounding and sheer mutilation (Plus the psychological effect that has on the guys who are on the receiving end of said mutilation) the NVA and Viet Kong soldiers were getting doused with. The Yankees and their new 'Black Rifle' didn't have any effect on Russia's sudden change to the 5.45 and AK74 (These changes were scheduled in the 1950's to occur during the Vietnam war.
STG-44 looks completely different than AK on the inside, saying that AK was a copy is like saying AR15 is a copy of FN FAL, because they are both black.
Not that I am aware of but I would not rule it out as still being used by part of the military or still in surplus stock piles. As of now there is m855, m855a1, mk318, and mk262 in use that I am aware of.
rockerdude8000 if I remember correctly France was still using it as their famas rifles were optimised for it but they are replacing them now so who knows.
Yes 1:12 would be yet sooner but standard rifles on the market now are 1:7 or 1:8 thus why we did 1:7 for the test other options will perform slightly better
@@LFDResearch I heard 1:12 barrels key-holes before they even hits the target I don't know if that's true but if the key holes in a 20in AR I don't want it in a 16 in AR
if you're in a position where you have more 5.56 and .223 than anything else, for me this is the case, a 7.5 is a nice stand in for a handgun and close quarter home defense stuff, also a fun range toy
A bit of a waste of time drawing such conclusions as 1) any bullet capable of penetration will cause painful injuries and 2) few people if any at all take home defence shots at 200yds! That’s offence not defence. Struggling to understand why you’re doing this other than for idle curiosity?
Your missing the point the idea was to understand what the terminal velocity threshold for optimal terminal ballistics and then being able to use that combined with different barrel lengths to see if it can even be effective with a shorter barrel and down at a 7” barrel range you are basically out of the window of the optimal terminals at the muzzle. Keep in mind when it shatters each fragment even if it were to pass out of the block has less mass aka it will slow down faster and have far less over penetration but if the projectile is still in tact it will have more mass in one unified piece that will allow it to pass through more walls ect. As to weather or not it is a valid test independently we were able to find the same exact velocity threshold the us army did when they were testing this projectile back in the day. The faster this projectile goes on impact the more like a varmint round it performs.
I enjoy the side by side comparisons using different barrel lengths. I got more information out of this one video then I have by watching a slew of videos over the past two weeks.
Thanks we spent a lot of time producing it to make sure we had a solid test series that was comparable
@RG JR: Totally agree!!! Very informative video with detailed, pertinent information easily broke down into easy-to-understand graphics and video clips.
Yes, the tests from the different barrel lengths is nice. A 10-inch barrel produces the velocities you'll get at about 125-150 meters.
This is an informative video for those that want to know the potential of their M193 based upon barrel length. Well done.
This is by far the best and most informative video on the subject. Days and weeks of searching online in 15 minutes. I don't think you ever made the m855 video.
Don't stop making them. After hundreds of videos watched on this subject this one is #1. Subscribed.
We never published the m855 results as we were not happy with the quality or details. We have been spending the time improving protocols and gear for a better quality video.
I see a lot of comments along the lines of "Why doesn't the military do this research?" and "I've been looking for this info forever!"
The military DID do this research, and furthermore, they did it during the Vietnam war. And furthermore, it isn't secret. It's publicly available, and you can look it up. COL Martin Fackler, M.D., who was the Director of the Wound Ballistics Laboratory at the Letterman Institute of Army Research, published his findings, and you can look them up online, including the photographs of fragmentation at varying velocities.
That said, this video is the first time I have seen someone confirm Dr. Fackler's research with ballistic gel tests, so this video was still VERY informative for me, and I'm glad it was made. Excellent work. It confirms Dr. Fackler's research which showed that M193 bullets (which are NOT the same as target FMJ bullets, for those who are wondering... it is a completely different animal with a much thinner copper jacket than target FMJ and a much deeper cannelure) reliably fragment (i.e., break at the cannelure and further fragment) at 2600 FPS and above. Your tests confirm this. Thank you for doing this video.
Thanks we have planned to do more like this for some loads where the data hasn’t been published sadly we just haven’t had the time to get back to it yet.
Did a great job with this video. Ppl don’t understand how much damage a .22 caliber bullet can do when pushed to over 3000 fps it’s just devastating.
This is the best analysis of m193 I have ever seen without a doubt. Immediately subscribed with all notifications. Excellent work!
This question has been bugging me for a day now. I read up and was curious to see performance and effect. Thank you got taking the time to do this
Thank you for this excellent research, you deserve much more attention than you are getting, thank you!
Thanks
10.5” are meant for cqb anyways, 100m is pretty good actually. The damage from M193 out of a 14.5” or longer can be devastating and is certainly better then any handgun round. I do think a 7.5” barrel is just a range toy though.
You make some valid points but the down side is what do you do when you end up in a 400-600 yard gun battle across roof tops with your 10.5 in rifle.
in that case if you can make the hits then its all about shot placement. A 5.56 through the vital organs is going to be lethal regardless is it frags or not. But if I knew I was going to be in a 400yd battle I'll take a 16". I personally only have three 16" AR's and one 14.5 pinned AR myself. I do have the itch to do a pistol build but I'm thinking a 11.5".
Ben White from the research I’ve done 12.5 and 14.5 inch barrels are almost the exact same muzzle velocity. I said almost but the difference isn’t really worry some. So is it safe to say that the 12.5 would have the ability to fragment out around 100m? I mean either way if I plan on fighting past 300 a shot to the lung is gunna do wonders regardless frag.
@@LFDResearch you carry an M16 and an Ingram mac-10 set to full auto
@@Rain-Orca how to immediately tell someone knows nothing about guns
Thanks for the info. Just picked up a 14.5" bcm recce with a battlecomp on end of it along with some 193 frontier 55gr fmj hornady/lake city ammo
This is very helpful in helping me with no development from 10 and a 1/2 inch up to 24 in 1:8 & 1:9 twist rates. Would love to see lighter grains with the shorter barrels. In any case, thank you so much for the work you do, it's proven VERY helpful!
Thank you so much for breaking everything down and doing all the testing for us! great video
Thanks we still plan to finish the series life has just gotten in the way.
I appreciate these videos also. Recently saw a demonstration where 193 ball was shot out of a 16” carbine and put a big dent in a steel target, but then a 20” barrel was used and it knocked a hole clean through. Kind of makes me want a 20” barrel! I have a video posted where we tried different rounds out of a 16”….at 25 yards, the 77gr match seemed most effective on a pork shoulder.
Check out a 24” barrel it really ramps up the speed
Some of the best testing I've seen. Great work! :)
That 7 inch tumbled and looks like it did more damage than premium 9mm jhps and is over 2100 fps the threshold of human elasity for temp wound cavity ripping, I'd say the tumble factor is what causes the wounding, fragmentation is just a bonus. That and velocity imho
Nice! Just subbed. Good job using real gelatin for accurate penetration measurements.
Fucking awesome video! I have been waiting for someone to do an in depth video like this for years!
+Cory Carlson I'm glad that all the time and effort put into making this has helped you!
I loved it. I have seen every video and read everything I can get about m193 and m855 plus my own informal testing. I had always read that the minimum velocity required for fragmentation was 2,450 fps...it's awesome that your tests confirmed that. I can't wait to see how the m855 stacks up vs. the m193. I've got a few piles of both, just in case! Have an awesome day
I would never even think of using a 55 grain bullet in my 7.5” barrel. It would be nothing short of MK318 or MK262. They are far less velocity dependent than M193..
Exactly but using it here gives us a base line for velocity decrease terminals and a baseline for when we get time to test heavier bullet loadings terminal ballistics
I saw someone on a forum post 2600 for minimum fragmentation velocity. I think it may have been M193s. I'd say that's consistent considering. Pretty cool.
2600 is a safe bet the 2500-2600 is the same area the us military found back in the day
old vid, but thanks for that. There is a big misconception out there that the 55 gr ball just punches neat little holes. not at closer ranges boys.
This video will be useful to many
Good stuff. There are important factors with the 5.56 to consider and test. Bullet type, barrel length and twist ratio, barrier and target material, target distance, altitude, wind, and probably more. Thanks for showing us the test!
Very well done video. Thanks for doing this testing. I would really appreciate a video in which you tested the accuracy of varying loads out of different twist rate barrels. I have found a lot of conflicting information online about this subject and I’m really trying to get to the heart of the matter for whether M193 will shoot accurately out of a 1 - 7 inch twist barrel
As for testing the different twists that would be difficult to do a direct comparison. But as to a 1:7 twist it will stabilize at 1:7 and not be overdriven enough to destruct. In theory a 35-40gr bullet may have issues out of a 1:7. That is one video we plan on attempting to pull off it’s just attempting to nail down where the bullet would destruct and attempting to get video of it occurring.
Good presentation. Short barrels heavy soft point might be better than ball. I used to test bullets using water filled furniture foam in half gallon milk containers. It acted very much like muscle tissue. I did tests with first generation Sierra hollow points with most not opening at all. 45 ACP and 357 Mag. I was able to take the samples to the then Sierra Production manager at a NSGA show in Chicago along with Elmer Keith who was a family friend. That was the start of Modern High performance Hollow points in heavier weights than Super Vel was churning out. Sierra did a major rethink and redesign based on my limited testing and Elmer's backing.
Agreed in a short barrel a heavy projectile would be more effective than the light one used in this test we hope to get things aligned to continue this series with heavier projectiles in the spring using an improved testing setup and higher quality video including true highspeed
Lots of good info! Where is the M855 and M855A1 videos?
As of right now waiting for winter to end
LFD Research any update?
Why the HELL haven't I been graced with this channel until now?!? Amazing content! Also, it's wild that the one round captured looks identical to most captured softpoint and some hp rounds.
Thanks this video was one of our best projects and we hope to find time to keep doing testing like this but with upgraded equipment and protocols to get even better data. After doing this test and publishing it we found the old army test data testing the same projectile and they came to the same results on velocity needed for the projectile fragmentation
@@LFDResearch very cool! After watching this video I of course went directly to your channel and found lots of great stuff! I really like all the informative stuff the most by far. I did notice that it's been a whole year since your last post. Looking forward to whatever the future brings!
Life and the pandemic got in the way of production for awhile
Wow good stuff man, very thorough. I’m not sure if you use a script, but if not I think it may help with smoothing out the points you make while talking. Not bad at all, definitely worth the watch! Keep it up!!
This is exactly why the Marine Corps trains with 2 shots placed relativity close together. The first shot "sets" the permanent would cavity and the temporary wound cavity from the second shot causes all those cuts to rip and tear in spectacular fashion.
That and they also have their own specialty bullet they issue in addition to the m855
Hammer pair for the win
I love the drama in the commentary, lol. I want you to read Shakespeare to us 🤣
Wow. What a wealth of knowledge. Keep it up! I subscribed.
Fantastic content!
Great video! Very informative!
55-grain ball is what I use for home defense. Its coming out of the barrel at better than 3 grand and obviously does some serious damage. Not that it makes any difference at 7 meters (the average distance of a defensive shooting), but I use 5.56 for defense and .223 for practice or plinking. There might only be about 100 FPS difference, but I'll still hedge my bets with a slightly hotter round.
5.56 or .223, that 55 grain FMJ is absolutely adequate for self defense, especially at 10 meters or less.
Solid content.
Facts based analysis.
Great video.
Now some 7.62x39 in various bullet types 😊
Would love to do that one day particularly some of the heavier soft point projectiles
Awesome video! Very informative and good info. I just built my first AR pistol and am deciding on which ammo to use.
Well done, very professional!
Been watching your videos since the 40gr vmax keep on man
Nasty round. Great for self defense.
Really enjoyed this!
dang man 3129 out of a 14.5" is pretty effective!
wating for m855! soon please!
We are working on it
Excellent work guys. Please carry on. I’d like to see comparisons of PMC FMJBT and higher end ammo, like Fusion and Trophy 🏆 Bonded.
If the pmc fmjbt you are asking about are 55gr the bullet construction will be nearly the same to this test or close enough for the shatter point you cannot tell the difference. The only difference may come in at the muzzle velocity of the loading. We do have plans to get into testing higher end projectiles at some point.
@@LFDResearch
Thanks guys. Much appreciate it.
Good testing
If you overspin 55gn M193, it loses that wonderful yaw effect in tissue. It wants 1/12.
True it was designed around the 1:14 twist but that was borderline so they upped it to the 1:12 we were testing what happens in todays modern guns with a 1:7 twist the terminal results we achieved mirror what was found by the us military back in the day. But there is the secondary fun factor of not every company’s twist rate is actually what they say or list 224 val exposed that there can be close to a 1” variance in the twist rate and the companies are just rounding down to the lowest full number
I would like to see how a Nosler 60gr partitions does, or any of the bond core hunting bullets.
+Mark Kodra thanks for the feedback I'll add it to the list
Mine has 14.5 inch barrel with an inch and half pinned muzzle break 1:8 twist. to keep it legal of 16”
That’s basically the 14.5” setup we used except it was a 1:7 twist. The only change I would expect is you might see a slightly shorter neck than this testing
@@LFDResearch shorter neck on the slower twist rate?
Great video man, thanks
So, every 10 yards the round is losing (on average +/-)30-40fps regardless of barrel length?
and if Im seeing this right, you are losing apporx10fps at the muzzle for every inch of the barrel after a 3200fps start from the 18"?
do the twist rates make any difference on velocity or is the twist rate basically a stabilizing force on a round, and doesnt have an impact on velocity? Im not sure if the charts take the different twist rates into account which is why Im wondering if that would make any difference...and in the end effective terminal performance with barrel length and range of impact.
So if this holds and I got it right, I can do the math for an 11.5 barrel(or whatever) velocity at whatever range(any range in 10-yard increments) and only be off by less than 1%-2% of the actual value.
Thanks!
This is what we were getting for test data on the barrels we tested each barrel tested was 1:7 twist and should mostly be a stabilizing force on the projectile. I am not aware of any in depth looks into what happens to terminal performance with different twist rates and shorter barrels. We do know from some of the earlier rifle military testing the slower rifle twist rates used like 1:14 and 1:12 the projectile was less stable and would tumble far more easily when disturbed in flight. In theory that could have it beginning to yaw earlier in its terminal phase and more likely to breakup possibly at a lower impact velocity. But as stated before that hasn’t been tested to my knowledge.
Looks like the standard 16" barrel should yield good terminal ballistics. I chose 16" barrels for my AR's so I don't have to pin and weld my muzzle devices onto them. I also prefer the 16" barrel length because it's still short enough to be a good length for CQB or home defense, while still providing good terminal ballistics out to about 190 yards. Since I don't think I'll be encountering any threats beyond that distance, that's the ideal barrel length for me. That's probably why our military went from the longer 20" to the shorter 16" barrels for their standard issue barrels. That keeps the gun light, easy to maneuver, while yielding great ballistic performance from standard issue ammo.
Today, the longer barrels are primarily used for SPRs; I'd prefer a 308 (AR-10) variant for that purpose. I just don't feel the AR-15 was intended to be a sniper rifle, or for that matter an SPR. If I'm going to carry more weight, I expect to gain a very significant advantage for that added weight.
Just my two cents.
Eric Coovert military is using 14.5in
Eric Coovert omg thank you, yes you are correct at least I think so. people keep bitching about velocity out of a m4 14.5 inch barrel but one of the reason the invention of an assault rifle is because most engagements are 300 yards or less. You have plenty of velocity out of 16 inch barrel.
高恩太 still 14.5 is still good enough.
I love it when the music is 12 times louder than the person speaking.
lack of common sense
Really good information. New sub here. Keep it up.
Good work mate!
Awesome video! Can’t wait to see your results when you do the 77 grain.
Excellent!
thanks! very helpful!
Have you tried velocities from the 2017 and newer lc m193? I have heard federal/lc have dropped about 100 FPS on the newer stuff not sure if it’s bs or not
Good video. Interesting
Good video. Thanks!
what?, no 20 std inch barrels?
We could only test so many barrels knowing the threshold will allow you to work out the range it is effective
Those charts where supper useful.
I'm not sure why the 18-20 inch barrels were considered, since the most popular AR-15 barrel lengths are 16.1 and 14.5.
Obviously, if the 14.5 is doing alright at up to 2,600+, the 16.1 would be as well (with even slightly higher impact velocity).
Still, impacts and velocities of the 16.1 inch would've been much more relevant.
Clearly, the 5.56 NATO is a killer above minimum fragment velocities, and 55 grain is the sweetheart weight out
of carbine lengths to 200 yards max.
That's what it's for.
It also means it's silly to spend money for anything beyond M193 ball 55 grain.
Thanks for your work on this.
Excellent, please test Black Hills 5.56 50gr TSX optimized out of 14.5”, 16”, 18”, and 20” barrels.
Cool Video!
Great video, my only issue is that you used the same block for the first two which slightly compromises the second shot, but really this isn't exactly a scientific study just a small point. Liked the video, very informative :)
What about Hornady TAP?
I'd like to know what to choose for a 10.5 suppressed rifle. I don't need distance beyond about 100 yards, but 200 would be nice. What's important is the "down the hall" distance. Can I get a 10.5 barrel AR with 200 yard performance and also catastrophic damage to home invaders?
+Sean Sorrentino We will add that to the list after we have completed the us military loadings. I suspect the performance may be similar to MK262 witch will be the third round we test.
Goooodddd DAMN! How the hell did you get over 3100 fps with the 14.5?!? I've been trying to stack imi M193. Have you ever chronographed this round? I'm curious how far the imi would be effective through my 14.7".
Muzzle velocity will vary from gun to gun chamber bore external air pressure and temperature all will have some effect this testing was done in summer so tempature would have been around 85-95° F at 1200 feet above sea level both of those can contribute to faster velocities but not normally beyond 1-200fps. I have used the imi 193 loading but never did an in-depth testing of its velocity or consistency
Can you do this same test the Hornady Frontier 62gr spire point?
Possibly but one of these takes about a month on filming to achieve
Where the hell are you getting
M855-A1, I want some can't find them anywhere 😫 😩
Connections and judicious use of google and auction sites to get the projectiles
It would be very interesting to see m193 vs 7n6 in some clearer gel.
That would be neat to see. One thing to keep in mind the clear blocks are fully synthetic and behave differently than what we are using. This is the same exact test medium developed and used by the fbi for their testing. The clear blocks will expand and retract differently that’s why you can and will see compression ignitions in them that will not occur in this medium.
@@LFDResearch I did not know that! Well, in that case I’d like to see 7n6 vs m193 in the correct gel :)
Bullet choice…AND barrel length.
(Glad mine is the 20” flavor. 😉)
cool video. just confirms 20 inch master race
+Guam .Guy with this round agreed I look forward to seeing how the m855a1 and mk262 perform.
LFD Research www.midwayusa.com/product/101629790/barnes-precision-match-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-85-grain-open-tip-match-box-of-20
These 85grain otm are claimed to be mag loadable. Wonder if you could test these. Like a mk262 on steroids?
Do you think twist rate has any significant effect on the terminal performance? Like 1;9 vs 1:7
Yes it will make some difference we tested for the most stabilized version with the modern twist rate. We would like too eventually test how the different twist rates affect terminal ballistics.
Shouldn't affect terminal performance but a 55 grain projectile sometimes seems to be a little less accurate from 1 in 8 or 1 in 7 twist barrel compared to a 1 in 9 or slower twist rate
I might have missed it, but what brand of M193 did you use?
This was the American Eagle m193 and we tested the down loads twice once with Hornady 55gr fmj’s and once with bullets pulled from the American Eagle with identical results
LFD Research Thanks!
Those velocities seem great for the stated barrel lengths.. load data?
This was factory loadings the federal xm193 556 sku testing was done in summer at 1200ft above sea level
Excellent video! Just found your channel. Do you test 7.62×39 rounds?
Nope we hope to at some point.
How does the terminal performance of a m193 out of a 7.5in barrel compare to that of a 9mm jhp?
Very similar we actually tested it at the time as I was curious myself
@@LFDResearch Thanks for that info. Since lot of people complain about the effectiveness of he 9mm and the performance of the 5.56 out of a 7.5in barrel is similar, I'll have to go with a 10.5in barrel to get improved performance.
LFD... just watched your video again , top notch research mate . M855 ?? cheers
Life and improved testing protocols and equipment have delayed us getting to the follow up tests
Dig it! Subbed!
Standard 5.56 was designed to be shot out of a 20inch barrel. The FMJ rounds, they are highly dependent on velocity. Also, the powder doesn't burn all the way in a shorter barrel like a 16in, 14.5in, ect. There are 5.56 rounds than can be used in carbine, pistol, length uppers. Good video though
The 5.56 55gr M193 Round. So shitty, weak and seldom good enough to use for killing miniature poodles that the Soviets ditched Their beloved AK47 chambered in the mighty 7.62x39 for the 5.45x39 and the AK74. They weren't trying to mimic the Americans. And NOOOOO Kalashnikov wasn't lucky Hugo Schmeisser designed and fielded the STG-44....I hear Schmeisser stole the STG plans from looking at Kalashnikovs AK47 blueprints. Just like how the Americans copied the MIG-29 and came out with the F-15. Anwyays......
It'a almost like the photos and field reports of catastrophic wounding and sheer mutilation (Plus the psychological effect that has on the guys who are on the receiving end of said mutilation) the NVA and Viet Kong soldiers were getting doused with. The Yankees and their new 'Black Rifle' didn't have any effect on Russia's sudden change to the 5.45 and AK74 (These changes were scheduled in the 1950's to occur during the Vietnam war.
STG-44 looks completely different than AK on the inside, saying that AK was a copy is like saying AR15 is a copy of FN FAL, because they are both black.
7.62x39 16inch barrel vs 10.ak draco pistol next
We are more likely to 300 blk before 7.62x39 ar’e make the barrel changes for testing far cheaper that a new gun for every barrel length
Dang Winchester everything is sluggish
Does the military still use m193 at all?
Not that I am aware of but I would not rule it out as still being used by part of the military or still in surplus stock piles. As of now there is m855, m855a1, mk318, and mk262 in use that I am aware of.
Not really no
Not US or NATO but non NATO countries still use it
rockerdude8000 if I remember correctly France was still using it as their famas rifles were optimised for it but they are replacing them now so who knows.
Pretty mean little round from a 14.5 inch barrel and upwards
Yep and it’s the standard budget plinking bullet only down side is those aren’t loaded quite as hot/fast
@@LFDResearch - Yep, they certainly used to be loaded a bit hotter. Pretty impressive little cartridge nontheless, very inexpensive too.
1:9 twist is king tumbles earlier because the bullet is less stabilized
Yes 1:12 would be yet sooner but standard rifles on the market now are 1:7 or 1:8 thus why we did 1:7 for the test other options will perform slightly better
@@LFDResearch I heard 1:12 barrels key-holes before they even hits the target I don't know if that's true but if the key holes in a 20in AR I don't want it in a 16 in AR
@@LFDResearch what happened to her dialogue I miss talking to you
if you're in a position where you have more 5.56 and .223 than anything else, for me this is the case, a 7.5 is a nice stand in for a handgun and close quarter home defense stuff, also a fun range toy
Copy that. My day-to-day carry/truck/home defense 11.5” ...good to go for that. Anything more serious...choose a 14.5” or longer.
This is why I have 16” barrel ars and 6” barrel aks lol.
How is your 193 so hot
It’s the federal xm193 factory loading at 1200ft above sea level
@@LFDResearch what’s better in your opinion Imi or federal 193?
"556 is weak"
Good joke hahaha
A bit of a waste of time drawing such conclusions as 1) any bullet capable of penetration will cause painful injuries and 2) few people if any at all take home defence shots at 200yds! That’s offence not defence. Struggling to understand why you’re doing this other than for idle curiosity?
Your missing the point the idea was to understand what the terminal velocity threshold for optimal terminal ballistics and then being able to use that combined with different barrel lengths to see if it can even be effective with a shorter barrel and down at a 7” barrel range you are basically out of the window of the optimal terminals at the muzzle. Keep in mind when it shatters each fragment even if it were to pass out of the block has less mass aka it will slow down faster and have far less over penetration but if the projectile is still in tact it will have more mass in one unified piece that will allow it to pass through more walls ect. As to weather or not it is a valid test independently we were able to find the same exact velocity threshold the us army did when they were testing this projectile back in the day. The faster this projectile goes on impact the more like a varmint round it performs.
Ur cute