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Replacing a dodgy Bridge on a Les Paul with a TonePros T3BT
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- Опубликовано: 29 окт 2015
- Replacing a dodgy Bridge on a Les Paul with a TonePros T3BT
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Intonation: Pluck the 12th fret harmonic, then check the harmonic against the plucked FRETTED note at the 12th fret. Then match the tones. Move the saddle back if note is sharp and forward if note is flat.
You are correct. That's how to do it. Doing it the way it's done in the video is pure guesswork, completely wrong as there's no comparison made between the harmonic and the fretted note !
@@danceswithbadgers Not even guesswork. The 1st harmonic will always be one octave higher no matter the tension.
I guess that it is possible to fool oneself by not retuning after adjusting the saddle.
I just installed a TonePros T3BT onto my Tokai ALC-50S which has the same buzzing / rattling issue. It's fixed now and for $75 I've turned a meh guitar into something that's now wonderful.
Thanks for the video Shane - it's saved me a fortune and effectively added a new guitar to my kit.
I replaced the bridge on my Epiphone Explorer with one of these. A drastic improvement. On the other hand I've fitted these to two Gibson SGs I own, and the difference was minimal due to the higher quality of the Gibson hardware compared to the rubbish on the Epiphone. The locking feature is always nice though
You can not set intonation by playing harmonics at the 12th fret. It must be fretted. Tune open strings then play 12th fret adjust accordingly. Retune between adjustments until open and 12 th fret are tuned.also try to set string height first. Your high E is way low. Pickups are too high. But you were right to change that nasty bridge, although you really should have used the post that came with the new bridge to decrease the chances of different size posts.
Gary Brown they were my every thought watching this vid
You can. I did. It worked. 😄
@@intheblues No you can't because reaching the fret you are stretching the string increasing the pitch. This is why you should redo the intonation as soon as you are changing string gage or adjusting the string hight.
@@claudelussier1678 You're correct, the intonation should be set by comparing the harmonic at the 12th fret with the FRETTED note! A basic error in the video.
Maybe his other hand was adjusting the open strings.
When tuning and checking intonation, you should do it with the guitar upright (like when you play it), not laying on it's back. The strings tend to go a bit flat in that position.
Also, I came here really wanting to see how to replace the posts lol
Bummer for you, did you find one about the posts. I am looking for a fully qualified communication and content wise on the entire process with posts, as well.
That makes for good Ytube talk on the laying down, its all over this stuff, but for real, techs will gradient it in flat wise and reset upright when doing pre show at the gig, etc...
@@verruckterwissenschaftler I did not but my Spotify wrapped is finally here yewwww
if its not a neeew build, they really recommend you dont replace posts unless the threads are different
YOUR PROBLEM IS THE WHOLE DAMN GUITAR IS BACKWARDS!!!!!!!!!
Yeah,how do you attack a guitar mod with guitar upside-down and backwards?Intheblues,when you run your auto on two-way street,are you on the right side or the left side?
Yeah he did do it kinda on the wrong side but it’s a lefty
Thats cos heez in straya mate!
dan undu
@@seankinsella4564 LOL
When you said it has a buzz you sure weren't kidding! Holy shit! I've never heard anything like that. Thanks for the video of the fix. Appreciate the sharing.
+TheMrZanshin Yeah it was doing my head in lol. :-) I am so happy with the way the guitar sounds and plays with the new bridge, it's fantastic.
+TheMrZanshin Par for the course on those cheaper Gibson copies!
You look like magneto!
Good video. Gotoh GE103 is also a good choice that comes in 5 different finishes, but be careful what size your post screws are. These seems to be 8 mm, my Epiphone Casino
is 4 mm. The Gotohs are Japanese good quality, but around half price of the TonePros.
when i replace any hardware such as bridge, tail piece or tuners. i usually clean the frets and board. if i do that i replace the strings too. so, if I'm replacing a bridge, i use a permanent marker on the strings and mark the strings where the intonation points are. this works every time
Glad it was an easy fix for you. The guitar sounded great during your live gig. It's funny that all of those bridges or like the original Gibson ABR-1 bridge with the wire thing. I had problems with those too in the past but I just replaced them with a new Gibson bridge. I've never had it happen with any of my other guitars that have the same copy/style of tune-o-matic bridges on any of my other Non-Gibson made guitars or even on my Epiphone's. BTW I just picked up a brand NEW OLD STOCK of an Epiphone Sheraton II in a Natural finish that was a Made In Korea model. I can't believe how well made this baby is. I've got to take some pics of it soon. Best of luck with all of your new axes and old ones and keep on gigging you guys sound very good and tight.
Tune it hit the harmonic on the 12th then fret it your tuner will run sharp or flat adjust as necessary.
I always use a tuner, what sounds good to the ear will wind up being off. A friend of mine adjust his at the 19th never thought it made a difference.
you cant use harmonics at the 12 fret you must frett the 12 th frett,, do all 3 and see that open and harmonics are good then fret it and see it might not be
turn the bridge around adjustments to the back for that style of bridge the korean one was an abr-1 copy the tone pro is Nashville style
Hey mate! Love your videos and I would like to pitch in on some advise about intonation. Rule of thumb, always check and intonation with the guitar in playing position. Gravity will be pulling down on the strings if you lay it on a flat surface and it would not be as accurate when you switch it to play in position :)
+Lionel Tan yup I have A&B the two. The playing position is the proper way makes a nice and surprising difference. One other trick is to wind the pickups down away from the strings. I had a problem with my strat pickup throwing off the intonation and it wasn't even that close to the strings.
+Lionel Tan Many thanks for the heads up on this tip! Cheers :-)
+Lionel Tan Advice n, advise v!
The strings are under a good amount of tension. The weight of the string can't overcome the tension. I don't think they would sag any differently depending on how the guitar is angled. The force of gravity (if that even applies) is the same if the guitar lays on its back or on its side.
You should check the intonation in the playing position, Shane. It does vary a little. :)
Saw a video once of someone taking a small flat head screwdriver and right in the center of the spring holding the screws on the old bridge,he put a v like bend in this spring, right in the center of the spring, by placing the little flat head and tapping it with a hammer,this tightened up the spring,there by reducing the rattling,stating that if it doesn't,put another v bend in between another another screw, it's all about getting this spring tight enough to stop buzzing,hold the little flat head up against the bridge just above the spring and one good wack with a hammer put a nice v in the center of the spring, that's all it took, very cool trick.
Im putting a Tone pros Bridge and stop tail on my project,should the adjustment screws on the bridge be facing toward the neck of the guitar or the stop tail ?
I prefer facing the neck. But honestly. Theres no difference on how its going to sounds. Just a taste on how you want it to look.
cheers for the love man mr in the blues,im not mr angry from so and so lol i have lp trouble similar just looking for a fix without a degree in luthierism ,see so many vids that people tear to shreds it gets me down all the nitpicking ,all the best sir:)
Thanks mate. Yeah there's a lot of crybabies in the guitar community who know better than everyone else. lol. :-) Cheers mate.
Just in case nobody's mentioned it - the method of checking the intonation here is incorrect - must use fretted notes not harmonics... )))) Seriously though... I never realised this so something I've learnt today. Nice playing at the end by the way.
you shouldnt use those tung sol posts, take them out and replace them with new ones!
i try to solder the ground wire to them and they started MELTING!! the metal they are made of is some kind of TIN based material, so they keep bending all the time you play or tune the guitar! (same thing goes with the bridge posts)
keep tuning bro!
My Gretsch Streamliner w/Bigsby has the same buzz with the saddle. I just ordered a TonePros roller bridge. that should sort it out!
When you set the bridge on the post the 2nd time, I could see the post on right side wiggle back and forth. I have used teflon plumbing tape to take up the slop in the thread. I also set the tail piece at the desired height, then I put washers under it to set it down tight. I did all that and still had the rattle you are fixing. Just some suggestions that I found to help with a solid set up. I just bought a used SG Epi, and I want to replace the bridge on it, I check the specs and try to get the right one .
Adding the teflon is a good idea but the problem is at the screw head part. I just posted under this video about how to put some shrinkwarp here to stop the rattle. I think it's a good idea to try to fix the original bridge. I have an Epiphone SG as well and the bridge fits really well onto the posts. Other bridges are loose here which is bad.
I have a fix for the rattle which seems to work fine. I did this on an Epiphone G400. The problem is that the screw is never tight. It is simply a mechanism to move the saddle. Only the saddles are locked onto the bridge with string tension. Also, the Epiphone bridge fits very tightly onto the posts which is good and some of the other bridges are loose here which is not as good. What you do is this. Find some 4mm cable shrink wrap. Cut loops of this just very slightly larger that the collar area of the screw that sits in the bridge. Shrink them into this space so that they create a good fit when the screw is put back in. Add a small amount of grease around the shrinkwrap and the screw where the saddle screws on to enable smooth turning of the screw. Forget the wire. Take that off. It only stops the saddles falling out when you change strings.
FROM ONE LEFT-HANDED GUITARIST TO ANOTHER
You clearly demonstrated that you had to turn the knobs counterclockwise to get any sound out of the pickups. This means that the pots are obviously soldered backwards. Try resoldering them so that terminal 1 (ground) is making contact with the pot itself; unsolder terminal 3 (output) from the pot itself, unbend it, and solder to the end of the capacitor that was previously and incorrectly soldered to the terminal 1. If you have a problem with this, just copy the wiring of a left-handed Gibson or a Japanese Tokai. Gibsons are always correct unless someone has messed with it, and most Japanese Tokais are as well.
You'll find a HUGE improvement! Let me know how it works out.
Thanks man! Cheers :-)
Any time!
I really like your what to do and how to videos. They're always informative and give me good ideas on what I should do to with my guitars. Thank you!
Has same problem with my epiphone so just ordered the same set! Fingers crossed it will fit perfectly
Hey did it work out on your Epiphone and fit correctly when your got it and fix your problem? Just wondering I was thinking about getting one for my Epiphone..Thanks
I'm having the same problem with my epiphone LP ultra 3. Thabks for the video!!!
I THINK THE ROLLER BRIDGE IS THE BEST THING GOING NOW
The Gotoh 510FB is superior but you need to use the posts that come with it.
It amazes me that manufacturers will continues to use something that is obviously flawed like a bridge that makes unwanted noise on a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT. It's like putting shit in your coffee and wondering why every cup still tastes like shit. Brilliant!
Nice video Shane.
I highly suggest you replace the tailpiece with the bridge with locking tone pros . They are a great replacement for those cheap parts.
You're intonating wrong. the 12th must be FRETTED, NOT the harmonic.
hm, i use the fretted note and harmonic to intonate my guitars.
RorysIrishTour That's the best way imo, I always do it like that and I've gotten compliments for having a very spot on intonation.
Yup, the whole point is to have the fretted note (imperfect due to the multiple variations of frets and human error) with the 12 harmonic, which will ring out in the exact center of the scale length.
Besides setting the intonation wrong, you said the stop bar was designed to be all the way down. Who told you that?
Also, sometimes a little clear nail polish or loctight on the threads of those saddle screws works wonders. Do this after you set the intonation
I saw your bridge posts were "rattling" when you bumped them, they could contribute to some minor problem. I got a tip years ago to wrap teflon plumbers tape and reinstall. I like to measure the tailpiece space from body to bottom of tailpeice, and them get some good quality washers and stack them to as close as possible where you want it positioned. I even custom make them on a lathe to precise numbers on mine. Then there is top wrap and don't look back.
I have one of these guitars. I really love it. I’ve had no issues with the bridge. Is buzzing the only reason you would upgrade? Or are there other benefits?
If you change from zinc to aluminum it makes a noticeable difference in sound.
Above post is right but also good if your saddle slots are worn and rough. Aluminum is generally better to replace with because it is more malleable and less prone to sharp nicks in the slot so the problem probably won't happen aggain
Hey Shane did you have to cut slots for your strings? I've been looking at these bridges and I'm hesitant to get it if I gotta do that.
I'm wondering this too, looking to replace mine. Thinking about getting one w rolling saddles tho.
Hi, when you played the guitar it sounded GREAT !!, thanks for the video, Cousin Figel
I have just got Legacy series Tokai Love Rock Les Paul copy, very cheap to buy guitar and yes a similar problem with the bridge. In fact if I hadn't seen your video's on these Chinese Tokai guitars I may not have bought it. Nice to get good info on replacing the SUNG IL Korean Bridge with the replacement Tone Pro T3BT-N Tune-O-Matic Bridge. Thanks for all your help. I used to have a 1990 Gibson Custom Les Paul and its going to be interesting to see just how close a cheap Chinese made guitar can be to such a classic.
Hi Shane. How did you identify that it was the bridge giving you trouble and not, say, the nut, tailpiece, string action or truss rod adjustment...?
+Alex Hodson Several sets of ears, pressing down on certain parts until the buzz stopped and just general troubleshooting :-).
+intheblues thanks Shane! Another case of "when in doubt, trust your ears!"
It's usually how the notch is cut in the bridge, if it's coming from the bridge. And yes on the guitar position when intonating. I've found having on the bench really changes it over playing position. The harmonic is close but doesn't take into account the string stretch when you fret at 12th. Good vid tho.
So many people don't know WHY they need to intonate. Hence they are prone to doing it wrong, as here, because they don't know what they are trying to fix. Notes go slightly sharp when you fret them because you are stretching the string - intonation adjusts for that (by lengthening the string slightly). If you don't fret anywhere in the process, you are are not testing for the variation that intonation adjusts for. The open string and 12th fret harmonic are an octave apart - they are the same note so should not vary from each other. If they do, it has nothing to do with intonation. So you can test intonation with the open string versus the 12th fretted note, or the 12th fret harmonic versus the 12th fretted note. But you can't do it with the open string versus the 12th fret harmonic.
GREAT stuff here!!!! I have a Vintage v100, that I would love to change for a good new one, but I am so worried as there are so many different sizes!!!!!!!!
Hey man, I know this post is a few months old now, but I just wanted to ask about the saddle notches. I just picked up a Gotoh bridge piece for an Epiphone explorer, and the saddles are slightly notched, probably about the same as yours. Just wondering if you ended up filling them out a bit or anything like that? Cheers.
I wonder if just waxing the screw threads against a candle ,may have killed the buzzing?
you want to have a in playing position when you're doing the intonation
If it rattles push that spring down with a flat head on both sides of the adjustment screw.
So tough not to yell at my phone right now 😂
How did you measure the bridge?? I'm looking to buy a replacement but can't find any info on how to measure mine.
Where is the frets nibs? And those bridge screws. Is it really a genuine Gibson les paul?
Guys, using the fretted note at the 12th fret rather than the open string harmonic on a guitar IS CORRECT. However and in addition to, you should NOT be using your ears to determine the duplicate octave note to adjust the intonation of each string. What you should be using is a stroboscopic tuning device in the adjustment. When the strobe bars all line up on a strobe tuner, they stop at the perfect intonation point. Any of the stroboscope tuners will do, but they're all much more objectively accurate than that of the human ear. Using your ears (and brain) the accuracy is different at different times, i.e. the just noticeable difference for setting the intonation when one is well-rested or fatigued will vary. This is a matter of study in human perception in Psychology studies and is well-documented. Give up depending on a variable device (the human) and rather depend on an objective and scientific measurement. The upside of this is that you can set your intonation perfectly even when you live next to the subway or railway, in the most noisy environment. At the current, no tuning method or setting of intonation is more accurate. I also play a 5-string bass, and I can't set the low B string intonation without a strobe tuner. You can trust the strobe in conditions where you yourself are fallible.
This might be an old video but the problem, especially on Asian guitars continues. Just ordered a Tone Pro for my new Sire l7v. Great guitar until the buzzing started at the bridge.
I have heard that in order to get the full effect of the tone pros bridge that you must change everything to tone pro? Meaning the stop bar and the bridge posts must be tone pro aswell ? Hope it works ok for you in the long run either way. Nice tutorial !
The tail piece looked high to start with!! Hence not enuf down force on saddles! I don't like the spring retention on the screws either! But using a tuner, you should flick the pickup selector switch to neck pickup vol at max and roll the rest back to 0! Tone pots can vary the signal to the tuner! I found this when tuner battery was fading!
The buzz problem can be solved by placing a tiny drip of clear fingernail polish on each saddle screw. Kind of a cheesy fix, but it does work...
3 in 1 oil is a better fix......and it doesn't set to an immoveable crust.
Do u have to raised the bridge post so the strings don't touch the end of the bridge like the expert says ?
Hi there. Did you have the T3BT bridge intonation screws facing the bridge pickup or facing the stop tailpiece? Because it's a Nashville style bridge. If I get the intonation screws facing the bridge pickup. The Tonepros words behind the bridge is upside down. I was thinking since the T3BT bridge is based on the Nashville bridge. The intonation screws should face the stop tailpiece instead? Thanks...
looks like the low E side is much higher than the high E side won't that cause it to pull out?
THE BRIDGE IS UPSIDE DOWN IN THE BEGINNING.
Watch ANY photo of ANY epiphone les paul and you'll see what I'm talking about ;) .
I had my hamer special in my hands so I noticed instantly.
It's probably been pointed out over 80,000 times, but your way of doing intonation adjustment is wrong. You need to hold the guitar in a playing position and move the saddle position according to the difference between harmonics and actual notes.
Also, the screws that lock the posts should be tightened after all adjustments are made.
Never open packages of metal parts over your guitar.
😂 Only if you're worried about dings.
That's very specific. What's that joke about guitarist changing light bulbs? 🤔
Hi, Got this bridge...I having trouble with the intonation of the G string and the low E string...Need to reverse the direction of these saddles...Is it possible?
Hi. I think you should rename the video to "Replacing a dodgy Bridge on a Tokai Love Rock" with a TonePros T3BT".
Nice video anyway.
I was having the same problem,i wrapped the tailpiece and bridge posts with plumbers thread tape and preto the buzz was gone.
Good job and sounds great Shane! what amp were you using on the live clip?
I think I see his Fender supersonic in the back there?
+vintage71 Fender Super-Reverb :-) thanks mate.
Setting the intonation with harmonics... Man you doing it wrong.
The string itself has harmonics not depending on the frets, the principe of setting up the intonation is to be sure the lenght of the string is set up in the way that all the notes you're playing on your fretboard are in tune. You should definitely consider all the comments pointing that out.
Anyway good work on this video it should have take a lot amount of work to produce it. Keep it up!
Is there any reason why the stock saddles are reversed? How E A G ones have the slant towards the neck.
I thought the Nashville Tune-o-Matic had individual springs?
I Like to think of My Guitars sort of like a New Car. When I take it out of the lot, I'm sure as Hell ain't going to just keep driving the thing As Is... and Guitars are absolutely NO DIFFERENT in that regard. Upgrade, Upgrade, UPGRADE.
Install a Locking Bridge - Realistic Pickups - Brass or Bone Nut - Serious Tuning Keys - Treble Bleed on the volume pot - .022 tone capacitor soldered in there - Make That Vehicle YOURS!
Nothing like buying a 7k les paul only to have to change out or upgrade everything, eh?
Seriously, I had to repolish the frets on mine FROM THE FACTORY it was that bad. They must have ran out of steel wool that day. *cough no wonder gibson is bankrupt cough*
I also had a buzz on my B string. Fixed it by putting a longer spring around the intonation screw inside (behind the saddle) ;) try it before you replace it
Lol nice. I used little rubber bands to hold the screws together and threw away the retention clip. It was worthless. One of saddle blade screws rattled inside the saddle so I fed a piece of rubber in it while screwing it In. It worked perfect.
Nice playing and long live Art Bell ...
Wow, great video and very brave to change the bridge of a Gibson. Did the sound change with the new bridge? If so, was it for better?
Did you not need to cut deeper slots in the saddles? Ive just bought a replacement bridge and assume the shallow slots are just for marking the slot but will need to be deepened.
At 1:31 it looks like the strings are contacting the bridge pickup, which would cause this level of buzz. Hard to imagine this is unintentional. Is it a paid advertisement for the new bridge?
Great video!
my Atalia torino v has some buzz might be just the thing i need to do, thks replacement soon
Nice!
Should a Les Paul have those flat screwdriver top posts on the bridge? I thought that was an Epiphone thing.
This question may be somewhat off topic, but the saddles adjustment screws on the T3BT have small nuts at the end. I've read that on bridges that have these types of saddle adjustment screws (with the nuts on the end) that the saddles can not be replaced. Essentially, if you remove the screw, it's not replaceable because of that nut...the bridge is then ruined. I've done a lot of looking to find an answer, and tonepros has been of no assistance. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!
wow! that is a buzz!
ALWAYS check and adjust intonation with the guitar in the playing position.
Shane I couldn't agree more on the American measuring system disaster . Every other thing we use base 10. Who counts to 12 and then starts 2?!? LOL
opinions in sound between stock bridge and tonepros (except buzzing)or it is just an 'acoustic' improvement?
nope, those suck too. The notches are too small and will cause the strings to pop out. AND THEY ALSO BUZZ! I figured out how to fix it by placing a strip of black electrical tape between the head intonation screw and the bridge.
was it really the screw father? it did sound like bridge buzz...so if its not the fether and it is the point where the bridge meets the string..
why not lowering the tail peace?
the really big screws at the end have exactly that purpose
lowering it means more pressure on the bridge and that will fix it for about 80% of the people..
you raise it when the string are hitting the bridge or having "seemingly wierd" tuning problems in that case lowering can also help depends what you want.. more friction or less friction on the bridge could stabilize the tuning... i testen both steep and shallow angle the only difference i noticed.. is the amount of breaking strings
and if i'm right some one lowered the bridge on the bottom more than on the top... yes you can do that.. some people like it that way but just to compensate for the strings you are using so 10-46 means
(46-10):2=18 thousandths of an inch or in my world 0.457 mm
now when i can see it (if i really do..camera angle..blub) it would be probably to much and could be the reason why the E and the B are haveing problems
1/16"+1/16"=1/8", even here in America we don't use the 1/26", good one though
I noticed the slots in the bridge saddles of the Tone Pros were slightly narrower than the saddles of the stock bridge. Have you had any issues with strings bouncing out of the Tone Pros bridge saddles when playing?
Yeah that's not how you check intonation chief. Been 8 years so assume you're doing it correct now.
That is gibson guitar or ephiphone?
TonePros are great on any guitar that has 'complete crap' fitted to it like most Epis and low end guitars as they are high-end. My Epi Sherry (allegedly one of the better models) had the usual cheapo bridge and it really opened up the sound making it near identical if not better than the 335 custom I had at the time in terms of sustain and clarity. But other than the locking feature I doubt it would be worth 'upgrading' a Gibson, Gotoh or other part that's already good quality.
I'm thinking of trying this with my ABR-1
Still Wabbles when you put the bridge on. Replacing the post is really easy to do. You're losing sustain if you don't
i have the same issue in the B string and its driving me nuts. do you suggest this bridge instead of the roller type? i have an epi es 339 pro
Hi, great video,my bridge is as low as it can go yet the action is still high, I guess I'll have to adjust the truss rod 😒
Dai Williams, adjusting the truss rod is not that difficult
Action can also be effcted by the nut .
Great vid Shane and glad I ran across it as I just ordered the exact one for my Epi Les Paul. I have the exact stinking muted string sound as you did. I hope mine goes away as yours did.
Check for loose nuts on each tuner. That can create mystery rattle.
Yep, had a brand new USA Fender that had that exact problem. It was a custom shop guitar and couldn't believe it came from the factory like that!
1/26 of an inch does not exist...just 16th`s and in finer adjustment 32th`s. so 2/16th`s plus 5/16th`s equals 7/16th`s.
Those bridges are SHIT Shane. I told you when you 1st got them, those bridges are cheap, hard to adjust and intonate poorly.
Tone Pros or GOTOH make excellent bridge hardware!
As to setting the intonation, just hitting the 12th fret harmonic isn't usually enough. You SHOULD also FRET the string @ the 12th fret, as it is the fretting that counts when setting the intonation. You are comparing the open string tuning, to the octave harmonic as well as the fretted octave.
This is how I adjust all guitars I set intonation for, whether it's mine or a customers.
Cheers mate, good catching up with you last night.
Where did you buy your, man? I have a cheap guitar that I'm experimenting with and the bridge it completely fucked. One of the saddles sits about 1-2mm higher than the bridge.
That guitar sounds great. Are those the stock Tokai pickups?
+Dan Crowell Hi Dan. Yes they are stock pickups. I really dig them :-). Cheers mate.
What's the exact model of the part you bought from TonePros?
I have my Ibanez guitar manual and it says you must play the harmonic at 12th fret idk why everybody's talking about fretting, frets are not true temperament they can't be accurate