The deeper I go with elder scrolls lore the better it gets. The writers managed to synthesize most mythologies and religions from the real world into their own thing. These ideas are like save points in humanities progress.
Just got done spending 6 hours freshly modding my Skyrim. But rather than actually playing it, I'm doing what is known as a pro gamer move and am watching someone else talk about it instead.
I did this with lovers lab back then, spend 2 hours just tweaking FNIS and just not making the game crash, and spend 30 mins "playing the game" and went back on Normal SFW Skyrim adventure
_“Now you.. You can call me.. Ann Marie! .. But only if you’re partial, to being flayed alive and having, an angry immortal skip rrrope with your entrails.. if not, then call me. _*_Sheogorath._*_ Daedric Prince of Madness. Charmed.”_
@@Bazzable a creation myth says Akatosh only agreed on creating Mundus so that HE can rule it. His children are born with the urge to dominate after all. So it's possible he doesn't saved the world out of compassion, but it'd be more similar to him protecting his property
Stop reading my mind. Last I was on a lore searching spree and my last topic was this right here. Thank you fudge Muppet always a pleasure to watch you guys videos.
Then there's Malacath who used to be an Aedra but was forced to move since Boethia and Mephala were being jerks, and now he's with the Daedra but not willingly
@@ashleywhite6851 I’m very sorry to hear that, and I want you to know that you are not alone. No matter how bad things get (and I know firsthand that things can get _unbearably_ difficult), keep fighting, keep hanging in there, and keep trying to do whatever you can to make it through. One day, as impossible as it might seem from your current perspective, you’ll no longer have to carry that pain. It *will* get better, and in the meantime, just remember you’re not alone.
How about a dedicated video about Ysmir Wulfarth? In my opinion, his story is simultaneously one of the most interesting and confusing out of any character in the Elder Scrolls.
I started watching Fudgemuppet videos as an aspiring writer trying to learn about worldbuilding, and now I'm so far down the rabbit hole my neighbors are the Deep Ones of Hackdirt.
@@real_Pinoy you must've never read about his realm.. hircine i would say is the most neutral aka not bad but also not good cause he doesn't go out of his way for the better of nirn and it's inhabitants
@@Cthulhu357 There's also Meridia, although she can be a bitch, same with Azura. Really, Malacath is at least the most honorable, the guy was also literally an Aedra before Veloth and his other group of a few A-hole Aldmer decided to chase the Daedric Booty and watched as Boethia and Mephala backstabbed Trinimac
So my next question is; if there are no "real" differences between Aedra and Deadra, then what is the difference between Aetherius and Oblivion? Why do the Aedra supposedly reside there as opposed to the Deadra residing in Oblivion?
aetherius is the realm of magic created when anu and padomi overlapped and oblivion is nothing more than the deadric prices own flawed worlds like nirn they cannot exists without there prince unlike nirn which is self reliant and is ever changing the realms of oblivion exist in the void. also yes the aedra are stuck in mundus as they lost too much of there power to leave
@@adamsosna7263 The Divines are trapped in mundas, you are correct, but the Magnagee are Aedra as well. They're just the ones who "escaped" before losing too much power.
@@YOGI-kb9tg If the Magnagee, the Divines, and the Deadric princes are all the same type of entity with no "real" differences, why did the Magnagee choose to flee to Aetherius over creating their own realms as the Deadra? Why did the Deadra choose to create their own realms instead of returning to Aetherius? What are the pros and cons of each? Was it actually a choice?
Now that I think about it, Meridia herself is a fallen Magnagee. Her "Coloured Rooms" are supposed to mimic Aetherius cause she its the "true light" or something and she misses it(?) So she can't go back, that's a fact. How come? Did the other Deadra lords choose to leave or were they banished?
That’s something I’d like in the next game. A couple Daedra missions where Daedra rivals another or an Aedra. Story wise, a Daedra war would be awesome
I saw someone else say this. But you guys seriously helped make 2020 a little better. I listen to your videos LITERALLY everyday. Cause I fall asleep to them every night. Im to the point that I can’t sleep without them. By the time I wake up I’ve gone through like 4 or 5 ha. When you upload a new video my day starts off so much better. I love you guys. Happy Holidays!
I always wonder what "before" means when thinking about the creation of Mundus by the Et'Ada. What where these spirits doing "before" time? They are not simply inmortal, they are eternal and outside of time. I find it usefull to think that they belong to the realm of "pattern" instead of space and time, so, inside Mundus, mortals can experience those patterns in the form of all the features of creation, like space, time, energy, matter, force and natural natural laws.
to elaborate, the aedra created Mundus and the people, beastfolk, and mer that live on Nirn. so the elves called them their ancestors. the daedra refused to go along with Lorkhan's plan to create Mundus. therefore, they are not the ancestors. im probably wrong, so correct me if I am
Thank you chief and the rest of your compadres you guys have gotten me through some shity times and good times too here's to you and make it 2020 a better year
@@ThatTempesTGuy Yeah there are for sure, if you've got a good PC it can look better than vanilla Skyrim, the main quest and especially the guilds are much better, Skyrim holds your hand a bit too much imo
Who's the gentleman on the left in the thumbnail? That cloak is sick, might borrow the it for a character design. On topic, thank you for further clarifying the Aedra vs the Daedra. Even after so many years I still struggle to grasp some of these concepts.
This is a very well thought out video (just like many of your other ones). I love learning this kind of stuff and having my perceptions expanded and challenged.
You know, this kind of has a point. And besides, some of these figures don't easily fit into "Aedra" or "Daedra". Sithis is neither. The Magna-Ge are both yet neither. Lorkhan, which is he?
Hey fusgemuppet, you guys should do a video of Reachmen lore based off the latest ESO DLC. A discussion video on the ideas for Nord culture pre-Skyrim and comparing them to Skyrims could also be really interesting with all the old PgtE and smaller books.
@FudgetMuppet, as a kind of Merry Christmas, can I just say I really admire the research all of you actually put into these videos, it must take flipping ages, so thanks for providing the videos each week and have an excellent Christmas
How come in the elder scrolls games, the main characters actually communicate and meet deadric gods and even go to oblivion yet that kind of stuff seems to never happen with the aedra?? Atleast not in skyrim.
Mortals for mortals, I say! The Dwemer had it right. They realized that Nirn, maybe even Aurbis itself, tis a silly place with fickle powers and rules where evil outsiders constantly "mod" the universe at their whim or reset it. Kagrenac said, "We out!", and they got out of the insane asylum.
Really starting to buy into the concept that nirn is lorkhans plane of oblivion, and the divines were just his liteunants who rebelled when they realized his plane would instill limits on them. This delaying their death and hence why they are less common and showing up less often the further from creation we go
From where is that temple you show in the first 7 seconds of the video, and also from minute 01:25 to 02:01 please? Which location and in which game? I'd be interested in checking those paintings behind the altars for myself for a closer look. Thanks a lot!
The distinction between Aedra and Daedra gets even a bit more muddied when you consider Trinimac/Malacath. Since Trinimac was the champion of Auriel and heavily involved in creation, he can easily be considered an Aedra. However, after his defeat by Boethia and the consumption and excretion (literally or metaphorically) of Trinimac by Boethia, he arose as Malacath and was exiled by Aedra and Daedra alike to the Ashpit, and since he was then the most powerful being in the Ashpit, he became its effective ruler. Since he ruled a realm of Oblivion, most would call him a Daedra, even though he originally chose to aid in the creation of the world and was later cast out of it by the actions of others.
As lofty of these pondering may seem, remember this is fiction written by folks at Bethesda and done in such a way as to be intriguing. But the Aedra/Daedra dichotomy is summed up by a famous quote: one man's hero is another man's villian. To illustate, let's take a good example; Adolf Hitler. The reason for his ability to rally a nation to his cause is because his political initiatives helped to revive German's economy after it was crushed by penalties imposed on the country due to WW1. He ended violent street protests from communist loyalists and constructed one of the German autobahn highways which enable rapid transport of imports and exports even to this day making Germany very important to European trade. To many, he was seen as a hero of the people and defender of justice - even the Catholic Pope publically declared support for him shortly before WW2. You say that no single act should define a person, but many of us find the idea of Hitler being a force for justice and positive change somewhat unpalatable. Yet the facts show that he was at certain points in his life. We simply cannot deny the flawed reasoning in declaring a person good or evil based upon a few choices made in their life, therefore the notion of Aedra and Daedra is equally as flawed. What Elder Scrolls needs is something to shake up this status quo and introduce something new to redefine how these ancient beings are perceived.
Literally none of what you said about Hitler there was true. The Autobahn was mostly built during the Weimar period. Most of the major communist uprisings were in the early to mid 1920's. And the policies which were used by the Nazi's to end the Great Depression had already been drafted up by the Hindenburg government. Don't do literal Hitler apologetics, it's not a good look
@@smrtfasizmu7242 I just quoted information from the New Orleans WW2 museum, so if you have any issue with anything I said then take it up with their curators and historians. ( www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/how-did-Hitler-happen )
Our Ancestors - Not Our Ancestors Gods - Demons Order - Chaos Constance - Change Good - Evil Betrayers - Neutral There are so many beliefs 'bout both Aedra and Daedra, and yet, no right answer, or at the very least, not a SINGLE right answer.
The Daedra: Your mortal realm is nothing but a speck in an infinite sea. You aren't special. You aren't worthy of a thought. Mortals: Sure is weird haw y'all all up in our business all the damn time like nosey, jealous bitches then if we're so unimportant.
I think I've heard about it in Interesting NPCs, their take on Daedra and Aedra: "Aedra are the agents of stasis and order and the Deadra are the essence of change and chaos and that when the two are in balance time progresses at its natural flow." Sort of like a Yin Yang kind of deal.
can't. Mean technically the deadra also create I mean look at the shivering Islands of the mad god or the hunting grounds of the lord of the hunt or anyother realm of oblivion. The deadra also have created and sometimes even invite morals into there worlds to live.
Yeah a completely made up cringe title - one reason why the views have dropped off is because they went from cool casual topic covers to weird story telling role playing voices with made up titles :)
the funny thing is, as far back as I can remember, "Daedra worship" was like ... bad ... m'kay? But you don't really get much for it, stigma or bonus. It's an oft-maligned topic ... but ... why hasn't it ever really been taken anywhere? Same with worshiping the "gods" really. It's always kind of been a disappointment. Do a little quest, get a little token. Meh. What if we wanted to do more? Devote serious time to the like guilds? Would various factions grow to love us? Or loathe us? And what power lies within? What secrets learned? I wish this could be expanded a lot further, both in gameplay and in lore.
If the nords believe in sovenguard the realm of the god shor then why isn’t Shor part of the Nordic pantheon of gods? or even openly worshiped at all? The original 8 divines came from the Imperial pantheon with the assessed talos becoming the 9th with their shrines and statues dotting Skyrim’s landscape even the Deadra have their own temples in shrines and yet not a single monument to shor can be found other than in sovenguard. With the exception of Talos Shor has probably had more of a impact on the nords his realm being their afterlife.
The Nords used to place Shor as the leader of the Pantheon but they mostly accepted the Imperial Cult which frames Shor/Lorkhan as Shezzar the Missing God and isn't really worshipped. Talos is in part a replacement of Shor as it is believed that Tiber Septim mantled him, and doubly so of you adhere to the theory of Talos being the amalgamation of Tiber Septim, Wulfarth Ash-King and Zurin Arctus and so made of a piece of Akatosh's, Shor's and Magnus's souls respectively. Also the lack of shrines could also be explained by their belief that Shor is dead.
@Goober Gaming just to be clear, Talos filled Shezzar's place in the pantheon, he absolutely DID NOT mantle the entity known as Shor/Lorkhan. He mantled his place in the pantheon.
Aedra: Dead Gods that ignore most of the populace of Nirn/Tamriel. Daedra: As a Vampire and worshipper of MOLAG BAL, my Vampire can and will live forever by soul trapping her enemies and sending them to Coldharbour. And when the next invasion is ready, she''ll already have become Bal's second lieutenant.
I've known the lore for years, but shamefully only now a line from "A children's Anuad" has me doubting my entire understanding of the spirits in The Elder Scrolls. While that book is somewhat of a grey area as its, like all creation stories in elder scrolls, just one facet of the full truth based on just the outlook of one group (and rewritten for children at that) It specifically notes that among the Et'Ada, the Daedra were born from the blood of Padomay. However, the Aedra were NOT born from just the blood of Anu, but the intermingled blood from both, meaning that the Aedra are just like mortals, capable of both good and evil. (considering the original Aedra did eventually devolve into the mortal races, that does make a lot of sense) However it also alludes to another faction that was born from purely Anu's blood, and are supposedly pure harmonic, referred to as "the stars" Likely being the Magna Ge. (Originally I was under the impression that Aedra were pure Anu's offspring, and the Magna Ge were just Aedra under a different name that abandoned creation) This is interesting as the Daedra stayed behind with a great interest in Nirn (mortal realm and place of change) (chaos) While the Magna Ge fled, never to return as they went to Aetherius (want nothing to do with mortals and rather reside in a realm of stasis) (order) And the Aedra are bound to both worlds, eventually either sacrificing themselves to become part of Nirn, or devolving into the mortal races we know as Elves and Mankind, first named Ehlnofey. (mix of chaos and order) So in essense, Mankar Camoran had a point, Aedra are "false gods" as unlike the Magna Ge and Daedra they don't have most of their power left. The Divines are lesser Et'Ada who sacrificed most of their power and contentiousness to become a safeguard for Nirn, protecting it from exterior influence's. Interestingly enough, not much seems to be known from the Magna Ge, let alone what they look like and what they mostly do (aside from not caring one bit about Nirn) The only one we can possibly reference to is Meridia (if she even is a Magna Ge like the story's would like to say, rather then a Daedra) Then it would mean the Magna Ge are exactly like the Daedra, but just mirror them in their vieuw's, they care not for morally right or wrong but only about what their sphere of influence encompasses. Meridia's goals are "harmonic" as she wants to erase all unnatural beings like undead (going against the sphere of Arkay) and bathe the entirety of Nirn in the light of day from Aetherius instead of the darkness of night from Oblivion, but just like the Daedra, without a care for consequence or moral. Forcibly and without mercy brought to light and death. Meaning the mixed blood of Anu and Padomay really was crucial, while the Aedra and Ehlnofey are always at conflict with themselves due to the mixed vieuws, they are unlike Daedra and Magna Ge, capable of true free will and creation. It actually shames me that it took me this many years to puzzle that together, and even now I'm not 100% sure it holds up completely, or is just a theory with many holes I'm not seeing atm.
Very nice essay. I'm buying it. Not that I'm buying everything said in the lore; that would be unwise. But the first spirits, and the beings they became, and became again, and their offspring, surely existed for untold times before Lorkhan convinced some of them to assist in his creation efforts. That decision each spirit made, to aid or not, should not define them. I always have a hard time with death in the Elder Scrolls games. It is not as final as we poor mortals of Earth might expect - for gods, and for mortals, too. What happens when mortals die? There is an afterlife, towards which their souls flee. Or they linger, not living but not gone. Or, if they are very unlucky, they are soul trapped, whereupon they find themselves in the dismal realm of the Ideal Masters - who may consume them, but what then? On to something else? We know not. But it is difficult to pin down finality. No less a personage than Azura herself tells us that reincarnation is a reality. She leaves it to us to decide if she speaks literally, or allegorically. The Eight Divines seem to be dead, yet not. They breathe not, walk not the lands, yet bestow blessings. Lorkhan seems to be dead, missing from Shor's throne, heart ripped from him, then subsequently destroyed, or scattered, or withdrawn... we aren't sure. The same ritual that caused the Dwarves to vanish, or at least a ritual similar to it, worked the heart's undoing under Red Mountain. We don't know what befell the Dwarves; no more do we know what happened to Lorkhan's heart. He is absent, and yet his avatars periodically do walk the land and carry out his will, and his works remain and are defended. The slightest fragment of his power, for a time, rested in the breast of the Numidium, which conquered an empire. His heart alone conferred divinity on no less than 4 mortals, albeit not forever, as events unfolded. Strange doings for a god if death had any real meaning for him. Can we grasp the nature of a god like that? Probably not. We have not the perspective, the knowing. And yet we know they can be inconvenienced. Tricked. Harmed. Transformed. Diminished, or enlarged. This, the High Elves accept as a matter of conviction; having seen a human man ascend to godhood, they endeavor to cast him down again. They believe the answer lies in worship - or perhaps, the collective will of spirits small and large, even humans, which, perhaps, guide unseen mechanisms in the universe, laws and outcomes akin to the workings of physics in our own world. Mortals, too, are probably original spirits, going through transformations but perhaps as immortal as the gods, though much less powerful and less wedded to a singular philosophy, or 'writ,' as I like to call it. On rare occasions, mortals can become gods themselves (and thereby wedded to a god's writ). The current occupant of the Throne of Madness was once a mortal. It's interesting that he seems to have been shaped to the throne upon ascending to it, rather than the other way around. Thus is a measure of continuity assured. What does this say about the gods? Who establishes their writs, if not they themselves? Mehrunes Dagon is seen as a pawn by Haskill, not a more noble piece on the game board. Has he been forced into his current shape by rules we can neither glimpse or comprehend? Possibly. Possibly. And somewhere, perhaps, perhaps, a dreamer dreams and causes all to be, past, present and future, the true author of all stories told, and all lies as well. But such is beyond mortal ken, and perhaps even the gods can only guess.
Im torn. It sounds fancy, but honestly, I just wanted a simple video stating the differences rather than an excerpt from a gothic novel. I just started getting lost because of the overly dramatic writing. But it sounds fancy….maybe I need a guide on where to start in elder scrolls lore because I felt utterly lost like I was missing some major elements that were explained in another video. I figured aedra and daedra was a good place to start, to learn about the “gods”.
The question is if Tamriel and the loss of power is persistent from the point of view of the Aedra. Is it a "fleeting" event by their own measure or does it define them in so far as they themselves are defined by or in their own milieu? If it does then the name Aedra is apt.
Finally someone who exactly described my mind. I've always been interested in both Mara and Mephala. Some people think i'm plainly evil. But that's 0.005% accurate. it's only because these topics are extremely hard to describe. This is amazing, I enjoyed every single second!
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
The deeper I go with elder scrolls lore the better it gets. The writers managed to synthesize most mythologies and religions from the real world into their own thing. These ideas are like save points in humanities progress.
Interesting take
funny to think that at least 40% of this came from michael kirkbride doing a bunch of shrooms and locking himself up in his apartment for a week
@@Mateo-oq7ui did he write so much of it in a short time?
@@stephencampbell2735 at least the 36 lessons of vivec yes
@@Mateo-oq7ui im familiar with this, I thought you meant a lot of the other lore o.O
Just got done spending 6 hours freshly modding my Skyrim. But rather than actually playing it, I'm doing what is known as a pro gamer move and am watching someone else talk about it instead.
isn't that the standard with Skyrim you spend way to much time modding to only play like an hour of it
Your a true fan
Been there. Done that. Many times.
@FeudiLyric29 or favoriting a bunch of mods to use later that you never actually use because it conflicts with preexisting mods that you won't delete
I did this with lovers lab back then, spend 2 hours just tweaking FNIS and just not making the game crash, and spend 30 mins "playing the game" and went back on Normal SFW Skyrim adventure
"What's the difference?"
Presentation!
Ahh Megamind the hidden gem of my childhood
Megamind, Megamind never changes.
No, literally. There's only the Daedra who presents in the game, and Aedra is just mentioned. This makes your comment even more funny lol
@@itsclemtime2357 this comment aged well
_“Now you.. You can call me.. Ann Marie! .. But only if you’re partial, to being flayed alive and having, an angry immortal skip rrrope with your entrails.. if not, then call me. _*_Sheogorath._*_ Daedric Prince of Madness. Charmed.”_
Easy, one's never around when you need them and the other won't leave you alone.
Up you go.
That's it basically...
It seems like two different kinds of toxic relationships
Akatosh litterally only helped at the very end lol
@@Bazzable a creation myth says Akatosh only agreed on creating Mundus so that HE can rule it. His children are born with the urge to dominate after all.
So it's possible he doesn't saved the world out of compassion, but it'd be more similar to him protecting his property
@LolLol-vd9cg when he defeated Dagon at the end of TES IV
Me: “I’m gonna go ahead and get to bed early for once-“
Drew: “Hey guys, it’s Drew here and welcome back to FudgeMuppet”
Lmaooo same shit happened with me rn
Stop reading my mind. Last I was on a lore searching spree and my last topic was this right here. Thank you fudge Muppet always a pleasure to watch you guys videos.
I like to imagine the Aedra and Daedra as neighbours living in a suburb and every now and again they fight.
Then there's Malacath who used to be an Aedra but was forced to move since Boethia and Mephala were being jerks, and now he's with the Daedra but not willingly
TY for making 2020 a tad more bearable guys. Happy Holidays 🎄🌲
No seriously. They really helped a lot of us out this year.
I second this, I think I’ve watched all of your videos they have all have been fantastic and I thank you for them.
Unfortunately I still had a bad Christmas so they didn't make 2020 bearable for me. But I wish it was more bearable for me.
@@stepfatherphil
I wish they helped me out this but no one can change or fix the bad Christmas I had.
@@ashleywhite6851 I’m very sorry to hear that, and I want you to know that you are not alone. No matter how bad things get (and I know firsthand that things can get _unbearably_ difficult), keep fighting, keep hanging in there, and keep trying to do whatever you can to make it through.
One day, as impossible as it might seem from your current perspective, you’ll no longer have to carry that pain. It *will* get better, and in the meantime, just remember you’re not alone.
How about a dedicated video about Ysmir Wulfarth? In my opinion, his story is simultaneously one of the most interesting and confusing out of any character in the Elder Scrolls.
What about the daedra attack in the Argonians?
@@obijuanquenobi1911 You mean the Argonian attack on the Daedra? :P
@@obijuanquenobi1911 You mean the droid attack on the Wookies?
I think Wulfharth gets covered in the vid explaining the tangled mess that is the origin of the god Talos.
@@lucianheart3727 It’s a system we can’t afford to lose
I started watching Fudgemuppet videos as an aspiring writer trying to learn about worldbuilding, and now I'm so far down the rabbit hole my neighbors are the Deep Ones of Hackdirt.
Gonna watch this after I finish this Daughters live set.
Crossover episode?
And? No one really cares what you do...
@@michaelleppek5033 don’t look down on our Brass God
@@michaelleppek5033 How could you possibly be unaware of AllinAll? He is our world's chosen champion of Lorkhan,
@@michaelleppek5033 Cringe and unchimmed
The 8 divines are the Aedra and basically in a coma.
The 18 Daedra are awake
The 4 people who achieved Chim are weird
We are screwed
Who's the four? All I know is Tiber Septim and Vivec(although didn't he die or fail CHIM)
@@CuzRuns the three people who became Talos
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 Three separate people became Talos? Who? Besides Tiber Septim
@@CuzRuns a nord named Talos for one
"The nine divines are boring. The Daedra? They're never boring."
I like hermaeus mora he's my Favorite Daedra not bad really only seeks knowledge
@@real_Pinoy you must've never read about his realm.. hircine i would say is the most neutral aka not bad but also not good cause he doesn't go out of his way for the better of nirn and it's inhabitants
@@Cthulhu357
There's also Meridia, although she can be a bitch, same with Azura.
Really, Malacath is at least the most honorable, the guy was also literally an Aedra before Veloth and his other group of a few A-hole Aldmer decided to chase the Daedric Booty and watched as Boethia and Mephala backstabbed Trinimac
The best one is Molag Bal because I'm kinky
@@ivans.5959
Lmao, that's some crazy kinks man 😅 be careful with Molag Bal, for real 😳
I found the last minute or two of this video incredibly powerful.
Thank you for another great video. 💚
So my next question is; if there are no "real" differences between Aedra and Deadra, then what is the difference between Aetherius and Oblivion? Why do the Aedra supposedly reside there as opposed to the Deadra residing in Oblivion?
Wait, didn't the Aeadra reside in Mundus as planets? I am pretty sure that Aetherius is inhabited by the Magnagee
aetherius is the realm of magic created when anu and padomi overlapped and oblivion is nothing more than the deadric prices own flawed worlds like nirn they cannot exists without there prince unlike nirn which is self reliant and is ever changing the realms of oblivion exist in the void.
also yes the aedra are stuck in mundus as they lost too much of there power to leave
@@adamsosna7263 The Divines are trapped in mundas, you are correct, but the Magnagee are Aedra as well. They're just the ones who "escaped" before losing too much power.
@@YOGI-kb9tg If the Magnagee, the Divines, and the Deadric princes are all the same type of entity with no "real" differences, why did the Magnagee choose to flee to Aetherius over creating their own realms as the Deadra? Why did the Deadra choose to create their own realms instead of returning to Aetherius? What are the pros and cons of each? Was it actually a choice?
Now that I think about it, Meridia herself is a fallen Magnagee. Her "Coloured Rooms" are supposed to mimic Aetherius cause she its the "true light" or something and she misses it(?)
So she can't go back, that's a fact. How come? Did the other Deadra lords choose to leave or were they banished?
It’s like the one man’s trash is a another man’s treasure phrase. The gods of one pantheon is another man’s demon.
That’s something I’d like in the next game. A couple Daedra missions where Daedra rivals another or an Aedra. Story wise, a Daedra war would be awesome
Drew you are one of the best when you explain the lore of the skyrim great job
I saw someone else say this. But you guys seriously helped make 2020 a little better. I listen to your videos LITERALLY everyday. Cause I fall asleep to them every night. Im to the point that I can’t sleep without them. By the time I wake up I’ve gone through like 4 or 5 ha. When you upload a new video my day starts off so much better. I love you guys. Happy Holidays!
Cant sleep, FudgeMuppet time
One of your best work Drew.
The choice of music fits very well with drews voice
I always wonder what "before" means when thinking about the creation of Mundus by the Et'Ada. What where these spirits doing "before" time? They are not simply inmortal, they are eternal and outside of time. I find it usefull to think that they belong to the realm of "pattern" instead of space and time, so, inside Mundus, mortals can experience those patterns in the form of all the features of creation, like space, time, energy, matter, force and natural natural laws.
Its nice that the channel has been around so long that their basically just remaking their old videos
Thank you. Its almost like having someone tell mě bedtime story.
When it's a 3 minute intro you know it's gonna be a good video
I just LOVE your dig into the lore of the Elder Scrolls!
1. Our ancestors.
2. Not our ancestors.
~fin~
From the point of view of the elves.
@@michaelpettersson4919 Those are their words, so yeah.
to elaborate,
the aedra created Mundus and the people, beastfolk, and mer that live on Nirn. so the elves called them their ancestors.
the daedra refused to go along with Lorkhan's plan to create Mundus. therefore, they are not the ancestors.
im probably wrong, so correct me if I am
@@stuckonaslide the aedra didn't "create" beastfolk and mer. They became the beastfolk, mer and man.
but khajit says otherwise
khajit has true story if you have coin
Thank you chief and the rest of your compadres you guys have gotten me through some shity times and good times too here's to you and make it 2020 a better year
I never thought about it that way. Great video!
Ohh the music of Skyrim!!!!!!!
These videos deserve sooo much more views and subs, thank you guys
The history channel should hire Drew for ancient documentaries. He’s got a golden mystical voice
Been playing SkyrimVR as my first Elder Scrolls game ever, and wow; just wow...
You should really play Oblivion too in that case, it may seem a bit dated now but it delivers a better RPG experience imo
@@lukewilliams221 I might have to! I've heard that there are some good mods that make it look more updated, etc. 👍
@@ThatTempesTGuy Yeah there are for sure, if you've got a good PC it can look better than vanilla Skyrim, the main quest and especially the guilds are much better, Skyrim holds your hand a bit too much imo
Who's the gentleman on the left in the thumbnail? That cloak is sick, might borrow the it for a character design.
On topic, thank you for further clarifying the Aedra vs the Daedra. Even after so many years I still struggle to grasp some of these concepts.
That would be Talos.
I swear Drew could make a ton of money doing this kind of stuff for the history channel. He’s got a golden voice.
True, guy's got a great knack for this stuff.
60% (and growing) of the fudgemuppet fanbase: “I already know this lore for the most part but I still want to watch”
this was genuinely such a good video THANK YOU!!!
This is a very well thought out video (just like many of your other ones). I love learning this kind of stuff and having my perceptions expanded and challenged.
What is the "ilnafex" word you said at around 0:42 ?
yay Drew!
You know, this kind of has a point. And besides, some of these figures don't easily fit into "Aedra" or "Daedra". Sithis is neither. The Magna-Ge are both yet neither. Lorkhan, which is he?
I love you guys your story telling is just out of this world...
I just have to say that I absolutely love listening to you guys! Thank you for making all these fantastic videos! ❤️❤️❤️
Seriously we love you fudgemuppet we have one of the best communities because we actually care about imagination
I love when I wake up to find that FudgeMuppet has posted new content! Keep up the great work, guys!
Keep up the good work fellas, your subs are well earned
Hey fusgemuppet, you guys should do a video of Reachmen lore based off the latest ESO DLC. A discussion video on the ideas for Nord culture pre-Skyrim and comparing them to Skyrims could also be really interesting with all the old PgtE and smaller books.
I wish they would make a dlc where Herma Mora gives you a book with the complete history of nirn.
@FudgetMuppet, as a kind of Merry Christmas, can I just say I really admire the research all of you actually put into these videos, it must take flipping ages, so thanks for providing the videos each week and have an excellent Christmas
Great video. Very informative and love the inclusion from Haskill on his insights.
How come in the elder scrolls games, the main characters actually communicate and meet deadric gods and even go to oblivion yet that kind of stuff seems to never happen with the aedra?? Atleast not in skyrim.
The Aedra just watch
@@lightyagami8645 why? And has anyone been to the aedric existance?
Because most of their power was spent creating Nirn and Kynareth talked to Paarthurnax and Alduin fought dagon
@@lightyagami8645 ah thanks
@@lightyagami8645 Alduin fought Dagon?
Yass! ANOTHER video! 💞❤
I need to know the mods for the gods and statues. All help appreciated.
Yes, what's that statue of Azura? That shrine of Auri-El is definitely not one of the ones from Dawnguard. I want to know.
Found it! "Solitude Temple Frescoes" by Arduunos
I knew very well what the difference are but I still clicked and enjoyed the video
Gonna watch this after I out a 100 Nazeems into a 100 soul gems. And then I'll make him into a cheese wheel of course.
The Ideal Masters at soul cairn, seeing hundreds of Nazeem suddenly materializing :
*Who sent all this trash?*
@@rogehmarbi nazeem to the ideal masters: Sooooooo......................
Have you visited the cloud district?
I have been waiting for this. Will you ever do what is augur of the obscure? That is a very interesting being and gives us how gods see the universe.
Stasis and change, it reminds me of law and chaos from the elric books
the D makes the difference
Mortals for mortals, I say! The Dwemer had it right. They realized that Nirn, maybe even Aurbis itself, tis a silly place with fickle powers and rules where evil outsiders constantly "mod" the universe at their whim or reset it. Kagrenac said, "We out!", and they got out of the insane asylum.
Really starting to buy into the concept that nirn is lorkhans plane of oblivion, and the divines were just his liteunants who rebelled when they realized his plane would instill limits on them. This delaying their death and hence why they are less common and showing up less often the further from creation we go
From where is that temple you show in the first 7 seconds of the video, and also from minute 01:25 to 02:01 please? Which location and in which game? I'd be interested in checking those paintings behind the altars for myself for a closer look. Thanks a lot!
It's a mod for Skyrim
www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/75662?tab=description
It's so wild how well this can be mapped on the tree of life and the qilpoth
Love the content! ❤️🙌
Ahhh... Drew's voice... Don't mind me as I fall asleep with a smile while listening to this.
The distinction between Aedra and Daedra gets even a bit more muddied when you consider Trinimac/Malacath. Since Trinimac was the champion of Auriel and heavily involved in creation, he can easily be considered an Aedra. However, after his defeat by Boethia and the consumption and excretion (literally or metaphorically) of Trinimac by Boethia, he arose as Malacath and was exiled by Aedra and Daedra alike to the Ashpit, and since he was then the most powerful being in the Ashpit, he became its effective ruler. Since he ruled a realm of Oblivion, most would call him a Daedra, even though he originally chose to aid in the creation of the world and was later cast out of it by the actions of others.
That was surprisingly good
So is magnus and the magnagee and lorkan and the 2 moon gods not adrea or deadra?
As lofty of these pondering may seem, remember this is fiction written by folks at Bethesda and done in such a way as to be intriguing. But the Aedra/Daedra dichotomy is summed up by a famous quote: one man's hero is another man's villian. To illustate, let's take a good example; Adolf Hitler.
The reason for his ability to rally a nation to his cause is because his political initiatives helped to revive German's economy after it was crushed by penalties imposed on the country due to WW1. He ended violent street protests from communist loyalists and constructed one of the German autobahn highways which enable rapid transport of imports and exports even to this day making Germany very important to European trade. To many, he was seen as a hero of the people and defender of justice - even the Catholic Pope publically declared support for him shortly before WW2.
You say that no single act should define a person, but many of us find the idea of Hitler being a force for justice and positive change somewhat unpalatable. Yet the facts show that he was at certain points in his life. We simply cannot deny the flawed reasoning in declaring a person good or evil based upon a few choices made in their life, therefore the notion of Aedra and Daedra is equally as flawed. What Elder Scrolls needs is something to shake up this status quo and introduce something new to redefine how these ancient beings are perceived.
Literally none of what you said about Hitler there was true. The Autobahn was mostly built during the Weimar period. Most of the major communist uprisings were in the early to mid 1920's. And the policies which were used by the Nazi's to end the Great Depression had already been drafted up by the Hindenburg government.
Don't do literal Hitler apologetics, it's not a good look
@@smrtfasizmu7242 I just quoted information from the New Orleans WW2 museum, so if you have any issue with anything I said then take it up with their curators and historians. ( www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/how-did-Hitler-happen )
You guys should put these ES lore vids on the podcast!
If Daedra represent change and chaos, what do we make of Jyggalag who strives to create the perfect order and stasis?
Because he didn't give up his power to the world
I'd like more on the Aedra. Also more pictures of what they might look like.
Aedra: developers
Daedra: modders
Our Ancestors - Not Our Ancestors
Gods - Demons
Order - Chaos
Constance - Change
Good - Evil
Betrayers - Neutral
There are so many beliefs 'bout both Aedra and Daedra, and yet, no right answer, or at the very least, not a SINGLE right answer.
I'm speculating but almost convinced Haskil is the one above all.
The Daedra: Your mortal realm is nothing but a speck in an infinite sea. You aren't special. You aren't worthy of a thought.
Mortals: Sure is weird haw y'all all up in our business all the damn time like nosey, jealous bitches then if we're so unimportant.
Interesting video! Thanks for uploading!
5:32 man said stasis and I got ptsd flashbacks from destiny 2 pvp
I think I've heard about it in Interesting NPCs, their take on Daedra and Aedra:
"Aedra are the agents of stasis and order and the Deadra are the essence of change and chaos and that when the two are in balance time progresses at its natural flow."
Sort of like a Yin Yang kind of deal.
can't. Mean technically the deadra also create I mean look at the shivering Islands of the mad god or the hunting grounds of the lord of the hunt or anyother realm of oblivion. The deadra also have created and sometimes even invite morals into there worlds to live.
Sheogorath is the true enemy of the Daedra. He's just super subtle about it.
What's the mod for the pictures of the divines behind the shrines in the Temple of the Divines?
Great video
Drew the Daedrologist back at again.
Yeah a completely made up cringe title - one reason why the views have dropped off is because they went from cool casual topic covers to weird story telling role playing voices with made up titles :)
@@craigboone2332 chill dude
the funny thing is, as far back as I can remember, "Daedra worship" was like ... bad ... m'kay? But you don't really get much for it, stigma or bonus. It's an oft-maligned topic ... but ... why hasn't it ever really been taken anywhere? Same with worshiping the "gods" really. It's always kind of been a disappointment. Do a little quest, get a little token. Meh. What if we wanted to do more? Devote serious time to the like guilds? Would various factions grow to love us? Or loathe us? And what power lies within? What secrets learned? I wish this could be expanded a lot further, both in gameplay and in lore.
If the nords believe in sovenguard the realm of the god shor then why isn’t Shor part of the Nordic pantheon of gods? or even openly worshiped at all? The original 8 divines came from the Imperial pantheon with the assessed talos becoming the 9th with their shrines and statues dotting Skyrim’s landscape even the Deadra have their own temples in shrines and yet not a single monument to shor can be found other than in sovenguard. With the exception of Talos Shor has probably had more of a impact on the nords his realm being their afterlife.
Maybe he is known under another name having changed over time. Maybe Talos ARE Shor in a new shape?
The Nords used to place Shor as the leader of the Pantheon but they mostly accepted the Imperial Cult which frames Shor/Lorkhan as Shezzar the Missing God and isn't really worshipped.
Talos is in part a replacement of Shor as it is believed that Tiber Septim mantled him, and doubly so of you adhere to the theory of Talos being the amalgamation of Tiber Septim, Wulfarth Ash-King and Zurin Arctus and so made of a piece of Akatosh's, Shor's and Magnus's souls respectively.
Also the lack of shrines could also be explained by their belief that Shor is dead.
@Goober Gaming Exactly my point really. The power is still there in some form or another.
@Goober Gaming Did you just post two responses to me and then deleted them?
@Goober Gaming just to be clear, Talos filled Shezzar's place in the pantheon, he absolutely DID NOT mantle the entity known as Shor/Lorkhan. He mantled his place in the pantheon.
"Did the divines give yiu this cool armour and unique magical artifact? Thats what i thought."
So for those parallel places, is it the same Lorkhan or a parallel version?
Aedra: Dead Gods that ignore most of the populace of Nirn/Tamriel.
Daedra: As a Vampire and worshipper of MOLAG BAL, my Vampire can and will live forever by soul trapping her enemies and sending them to Coldharbour. And when the next invasion is ready, she''ll already have become Bal's second lieutenant.
Great, now I wanna see Sheogorath party with groups of Khajit 😒
the perfect video to play while I organize some items in morrowind.
Yes, my mind is bubbling with new knowledge now ty, FudgeMuppet... wait what's that burning smell?
I've known the lore for years, but shamefully only now a line from "A children's Anuad" has me doubting my entire understanding of the spirits in The Elder Scrolls.
While that book is somewhat of a grey area as its, like all creation stories in elder scrolls, just one facet of the full truth based on just the outlook of one group (and rewritten for children at that)
It specifically notes that among the Et'Ada, the Daedra were born from the blood of Padomay.
However, the Aedra were NOT born from just the blood of Anu, but the intermingled blood from both, meaning that the Aedra are just like mortals, capable of both good and evil. (considering the original Aedra did eventually devolve into the mortal races, that does make a lot of sense)
However it also alludes to another faction that was born from purely Anu's blood, and are supposedly pure harmonic, referred to as "the stars"
Likely being the Magna Ge.
(Originally I was under the impression that Aedra were pure Anu's offspring, and the Magna Ge were just Aedra under a different name that abandoned creation)
This is interesting as the Daedra stayed behind with a great interest in Nirn (mortal realm and place of change) (chaos)
While the Magna Ge fled, never to return as they went to Aetherius (want nothing to do with mortals and rather reside in a realm of stasis) (order)
And the Aedra are bound to both worlds, eventually either sacrificing themselves to become part of Nirn, or devolving into the mortal races we know as Elves and Mankind, first named Ehlnofey. (mix of chaos and order)
So in essense, Mankar Camoran had a point, Aedra are "false gods" as unlike the Magna Ge and Daedra they don't have most of their power left.
The Divines are lesser Et'Ada who sacrificed most of their power and contentiousness to become a safeguard for Nirn, protecting it from exterior influence's.
Interestingly enough, not much seems to be known from the Magna Ge, let alone what they look like and what they mostly do (aside from not caring one bit about Nirn)
The only one we can possibly reference to is Meridia (if she even is a Magna Ge like the story's would like to say, rather then a Daedra)
Then it would mean the Magna Ge are exactly like the Daedra, but just mirror them in their vieuw's, they care not for morally right or wrong but only about what their sphere of influence encompasses.
Meridia's goals are "harmonic" as she wants to erase all unnatural beings like undead (going against the sphere of Arkay) and bathe the entirety of Nirn in the light of day from Aetherius instead of the darkness of night from Oblivion, but just like the Daedra, without a care for consequence or moral.
Forcibly and without mercy brought to light and death.
Meaning the mixed blood of Anu and Padomay really was crucial, while the Aedra and Ehlnofey are always at conflict with themselves due to the mixed vieuws, they are unlike Daedra and Magna Ge, capable of true free will and creation.
It actually shames me that it took me this many years to puzzle that together, and even now I'm not 100% sure it holds up completely, or is just a theory with many holes I'm not seeing atm.
Very nice essay.
I'm buying it. Not that I'm buying everything said in the lore; that would be unwise. But the first spirits, and the beings they became, and became again, and their offspring, surely existed for untold times before Lorkhan convinced some of them to assist in his creation efforts. That decision each spirit made, to aid or not, should not define them.
I always have a hard time with death in the Elder Scrolls games. It is not as final as we poor mortals of Earth might expect - for gods, and for mortals, too. What happens when mortals die? There is an afterlife, towards which their souls flee. Or they linger, not living but not gone. Or, if they are very unlucky, they are soul trapped, whereupon they find themselves in the dismal realm of the Ideal Masters - who may consume them, but what then? On to something else? We know not. But it is difficult to pin down finality.
No less a personage than Azura herself tells us that reincarnation is a reality. She leaves it to us to decide if she speaks literally, or allegorically.
The Eight Divines seem to be dead, yet not. They breathe not, walk not the lands, yet bestow blessings. Lorkhan seems to be dead, missing from Shor's throne, heart ripped from him, then subsequently destroyed, or scattered, or withdrawn... we aren't sure. The same ritual that caused the Dwarves to vanish, or at least a ritual similar to it, worked the heart's undoing under Red Mountain. We don't know what befell the Dwarves; no more do we know what happened to Lorkhan's heart. He is absent, and yet his avatars periodically do walk the land and carry out his will, and his works remain and are defended. The slightest fragment of his power, for a time, rested in the breast of the Numidium, which conquered an empire. His heart alone conferred divinity on no less than 4 mortals, albeit not forever, as events unfolded. Strange doings for a god if death had any real meaning for him.
Can we grasp the nature of a god like that? Probably not. We have not the perspective, the knowing.
And yet we know they can be inconvenienced. Tricked. Harmed. Transformed. Diminished, or enlarged. This, the High Elves accept as a matter of conviction; having seen a human man ascend to godhood, they endeavor to cast him down again. They believe the answer lies in worship - or perhaps, the collective will of spirits small and large, even humans, which, perhaps, guide unseen mechanisms in the universe, laws and outcomes akin to the workings of physics in our own world.
Mortals, too, are probably original spirits, going through transformations but perhaps as immortal as the gods, though much less powerful and less wedded to a singular philosophy, or 'writ,' as I like to call it. On rare occasions, mortals can become gods themselves (and thereby wedded to a god's writ). The current occupant of the Throne of Madness was once a mortal. It's interesting that he seems to have been shaped to the throne upon ascending to it, rather than the other way around. Thus is a measure of continuity assured. What does this say about the gods? Who establishes their writs, if not they themselves? Mehrunes Dagon is seen as a pawn by Haskill, not a more noble piece on the game board. Has he been forced into his current shape by rules we can neither glimpse or comprehend? Possibly. Possibly.
And somewhere, perhaps, perhaps, a dreamer dreams and causes all to be, past, present and future, the true author of all stories told, and all lies as well. But such is beyond mortal ken, and perhaps even the gods can only guess.
Light Side and Dark Side of The Force
Im torn. It sounds fancy, but honestly, I just wanted a simple video stating the differences rather than an excerpt from a gothic novel. I just started getting lost because of the overly dramatic writing. But it sounds fancy….maybe I need a guide on where to start in elder scrolls lore because I felt utterly lost like I was missing some major elements that were explained in another video. I figured aedra and daedra was a good place to start, to learn about the “gods”.
The question is if Tamriel and the loss of power is persistent from the point of view of the Aedra. Is it a "fleeting" event by their own measure or does it define them in so far as they themselves are defined by or in their own milieu? If it does then the name Aedra is apt.
Finally someone who exactly described my mind. I've always been interested in both Mara and Mephala. Some people think i'm plainly evil. But that's 0.005% accurate. it's only because these topics are extremely hard to describe. This is amazing, I enjoyed every single second!
Hey fudge whats up
Hello
What mod was used in that opening scene?
You know, with Lorkhan’s connections to the Daedra, i’m honestly pretty sure that Daedra Aedra is a fictional.
Though we do need a Shor episode