Spencer Ludgrove My parents have always said the worst possible thing that could happen to them is not one of us dying, it’s one of us going missing. Never knowing where we are or what’s happening to us. I feel terrible for families and loved ones who never get a solid answer.
I really feel for the siblings in cases like this. Not only do they lose their brother/sister, but they also lose their parents to the consuming void of the lost child. It's heartbreaking.
Yeah, look what happened to Cary Stayner after all. His brother Steven disappeared and his parents uprooted them from on a whim searching from State to State following tip after tip. Then the Yosemite serial killer was born…? Nah, prolly woulda happened anyway since Cary confessed to murderous fantasies before Steven was abducted. But if you haven’t heard of the story, The Crime Reel has a very interesting 2 parter covering this. Derrick’s case also hits some of the Missing 411 criteria… Just a thought. Also what happened to ft Mollie Westbrook?
Was anyone else horrified by the part of the story where she explained that the younger brother was suffering so much to still see all of his brothers belongings in the room they shared that he couldn't bear it anymore and put them in the garage, only for his mother to get very angry at him. Can you imagine being forced to live with your dead brothers stuff in the room you used to share ?!? This part really proves that people will lose their minds from losing a child. She wasn't even capable of supporting her living son, and wasn't able to see that she was torturing him by forcing him to wake up to his brothers belongings every morning. It must have been traumatizing. I feel very much for the parents, but not any less for his siblings. They all suffered horribly.
I understand both sides. I lost my brother when I was 11. He collapsed and died suddenly while we were playing in his bedroom. My parents kept the room intact for years, and it was difficult for me to go in there, much less be in the same house. I came home from college one day and they had completely refurnished it. Although they kept the cat calendar my brother had hanging in his closet, and it's still there, still on the month of his death almost 50 years ago.
But at least you did not share a bedroom with him and each of you had your own separate rooms, so you wouldn't have to wake up and see all his belongings next to you like in this case.
What I've learned from a lot of these "kid gets lost in the forest and is never seen again" is: don't let your kids be alone, even for a minute. Don't let them run ahead or catch up, and don't let them run back to camp without supervision.
I am confused. He was 8 years old! I may don't understand the kind of enviroment he went missing from since I'm from a different country but 8 years is too old to "never be let out of sight". Were I live you of course don't let your 8year old run around alone all day but most go alone to school, Visit friends if they live close by and things like that. I mean, every parent and child is different and I don't want to say you should let your child out after dark or in a unsafe place but they have to learn managing things alone, of course Step by step and in relation to Age and ability.
His poor Mom and Dad. Hearing about him crawling through the snow and getting frostbite and pneumonia broke my heart and hearing the mental anguish his Mom went through. We all need to wrap them in our prayers. Hug our children closely. As a Mother there is no worse nightmare than I could imagine if I were to lose a child.
Yeah I hope he’s worked through some things and learned to forgive his father bc he obviously can’t be blamed for this horrible tragedy. Misdirected anger and blame have to go somewhere at the time I guess when there’s an overwhelming amount of it.
I lost my daughter when she was 4 years old, we where on holiday, I was laying down in the sun and she was beside me, a few seconds later she was gone, she must of got up and wandered of in no time at all, my heart broke and my stomach turned and I was physically sick, we run around frantic, the feeling was horrendous I’ll never forget that, it took 20 minutes but we got lucky and found her just walking not to far away, I can only imagine what it would of felt like if we didn’t find her, my heart breaks for the parents of missing children, but it just showed me how easy a loved one could just disappear. Love and respect from the United Kingdom.
Same thing. My daughter was 3. We were with family. All walking together about 15 of us with 7 kids. I lost her for over 10min. Until a woman that looked like my handed her back to me. I fell to the ground and cried. I left the party and went to my mom's where I had a nervous breakdown. It killed me. She started walking behind a woman that looked like me and I took my eyes off her for a second. I don't know what i would have done if someone nefarious took her from me.
That's so true! I lost my son in a shop once. He was about 3. My daughter was in the pushchair and he was holding onto the pushchair, as I always told him to. I turned to the cashier and paid for my purchase - a matter of maybe 5 seconds, as I had my money ready - and when I turned back, he was gone! I searched the whole shop (it was quite big) and the area outside, asking everybody if they had seen a littlr boy in a brown coat, but no sign of him. I decided that I couldn't leave it any longer and ran with my pushchair to the Police Station, not too far away, and reported him missing. We were so lucky - someone had phoned them to say they had found a little boy in a brown coat wandering along the High Street and the Police had gone to pick him up. He must have nipped out of the shop door, down the road and round the corner into the High Street! Quite a long way for a small child! It makes me shake even now, decades later. I had two more children and used reigns (toddler harness) after that!
I'm so glad you managed to find your child safe and well. I'm not a parent but I can only imagine the gut wrenching terror you must have experienced during those 20 minutes.
I'm from the UK too. Was in a shop with my son and put him in one of those shopping trollies with the car at the front, had a harness and a belt but he still managed to get out.he was tricky that way a little 3yr old houdini. Luckily caught up with him a few minutes later but it's the worst feeling ever. To think we all feel that for minutes but we're the lucky ones, wouldn't like to feel that loss forever would be unbearable!
What was the grandfather thinking by letting the kid go off alone to find his dad. I don't care if there's prints in the snow to follow. It was a risky, stupid thing to do.
He was probably a senile old fuck. The boy was probably long gone before the old man told him to catch up with his dad (he probably told that to some tree stump he thought was his grandson).
I am wondering why the grandfather wasn't a serious suspect? He was angered by his grandson hitting at trees with his hatchet. The hatchet was never found...........
@MR PEEVES well what were the Father and the Mother thinking by having an elderly man take their kid out in a snowy forrest on a Christmas eve afternoon?????
BLOODY POND LIVES I listen to a few true crime podcasts and have seen many missing persons documentaries and short clips like this. Dropping the ball much more common with the authorities than people realize. It’s sad and frustrating!
8:00 now that is a portrait of a man in grave pain I believe the little boy was abducted on the road. His footprints ended there. Some opportunist got him.
Broke my heart... His father crawled through the woods looking for him... I can't even begin to imagine the all-consuming pain parents of missing children must feel... I hope these parents find the peace that surpasses all understanding, because I cannot see any way to begin to cope with your child never again within your grasp... 🙍
@@kellymeggison9418 So far beyond the odds. It makes no sense. My immediate thought was that the boy had been hit by a car. Bad drivers are much more common than violent pedophiles. And in snowfall, in dusk, in darkness, when the road is icy, even the good drivers can become bad drivers. Even the good drivers can make horrible mistakes. The driver then hid or buried the boy's body. Either because he panicked, or because he was just afraid of consequences. Didn't want to go to jail, didn't want to face the boy's parents.
The attention you bring to these cases is invaluable in keeping the names and faces of the missing or murdered in the public eye. The more people who watch these videos, the greater chance that a missing loved one may be returned to their family or a murder victim may find justice. Keep up the good work.
NM8 it's amazing how people will act isn't? I was going to joke about how after a week of putting up with wankers in my home town I now have DC, Kirsty and others to look forward to but seeing how they prioritized this poor little boy? I fell silent. His last moments on the Earth must've been horrible. Alone and scared in the snow :(
NonieMacB but maybe they had a few drinks. They probably had to sober up a bit. Go easy on them. I'm sure they weren't just siting there partying it up, not caring that a kid is lost. Maybe there was a mix up in communication. They put their lives on the line searching for us. We need to cut them some slack.
@@davidaston5773 they were probably inebriated and a search would have put lives at more risk. These people are heroes and you have the nerve to criticize them when you haven't done a thing to find the missing.
If his footprints stopped at the road, why would investigators think he succumbed to the elements... I'm thinking he was abducted, and that Milligan might be the likely suspect considering the witness account and the fact he drove a similar vehicle. Scary to think a child could be abducted in the middle of nowhere, on a lonely mountain road. What are the odds of that?! I hope and pray his family finds answers, and peace.
Omg I know!! What could the odds of that happening possibly be?! I would never see that coming.. But id never let my child walk off without me on a snowy dangerous mountain wjen its so close to night time already
This poor family. Stuck in limbo. It’s called ambiguous grief. On top of it they had people blaming them for their beloved child’s disappearance. If you ever want to know where hell is located - ask the parent of a missing child. Parents are stuck in hellish limbo. They never get a respite from it. No matter how many years pass by. Thank you for bringing attention to this story. Hopefully some day the Engebretsen Family will get some answers. It’s the “not knowing” that torments the souls of the families of the missing the most. 😰😰😰
@Cheryl Campbell I think you may be right. That more came more later. Or maybe I’m remembering comments made by people when it was discussed. 🤔 But I know in subsequent years the poor family has been put through a lot. I just hope someday they can find answers and attain some semblance of inner peace. 💔😰
Losing a child to death is hard enough, but I can't imagine losing your child without any answers as to what happened. It's an open wound that never heals. My heart goes out to this poor family. I hope they can find peace and forgiveness within each other someday. Rip Eric.
A young child ( no matter how adventurous or experienced in the outdoors), is still young. He should have never been allowed to venture out by himself. A mistake his grandfather has to live with the rest of his life.
Many search and rescue parties are entirely volunteers. Furthermore, there are policies that you cant participate in a mission if you have been drinking (for the obvious). These are small communities without resources to hire appropriate services to respond to emergencies in timely manners.
@@MusicforYoungViolinists I was thinking the same thing, it a party and if they were drinking even a glass of wine or a single beer you don't go out searching. I bet every single one of them felt like crap about the timing of the party.
I personally know MANY search and rescue people and I'll say one thing - they live for it! I cannot picture one person on the team responding to a missing child request saying, "Screw that! I want to party!" I even know people in the area as I used to live close by, and I can't picture any of them being anything but immediately concerned and jumping into action. I don't know what happened, but I'm going to guess that there was some kind of miscommunication. Both of my sons are firefighters and my ex started the local search and rescue team here. Wild horses couldn't drag and of those guys away from a rescue, whether it was Christmas or not.
This is just so damn tragic. This poor family, how badly his disappearance affected the entire family. I hope they're all able to find some form of peace, some day.
So not only does he get lost, he actually finds the road and just happened to be picked up by a 1 in a 500k crazy person. Thats insanely terrible luck poor sweet child, if im that Grandpa I feel never ending guilt and shame.
My thoughts too. It was close to dark already and the nights are long and cold 🥶 in December. Wolves start howling, owls start hooting and any 8 year old is going to be spooked. Poor kid.
I'm in my 40s, ex military, trained in survival and lived in a rural setting all my life and I'd struggle to make it with no kit in those conditions even with my history and training.
@M H Glad that you have that idea -- to clean-up society a little. Nothing wrong with that. We all want to find out that a real Dexter exists to right the wrongs. Just do it, okay?
Why drive 45 miles for a tree (90 miles round-trip)? THEN scale a hill in deep snow to cut down the tree, and lug it down the hill to secure it to the car and drive another 45 miles to return home? Why the late start when they knew it would be getting dark by 4 pm? And a blizzard blew in. . . hadn't they checked the weather report before leaving? Not intimating that dad and grandfather did anything to the boy, BUT their judgement was terrible. .
These are all the first things the cops would have inquired about. By the sound of their background (e.g. spontaneous hunting trips, regularly endangering the lives of their children,) this doesn’t appear unprecedented or suspicious.
True Blue Yes. I am familiar with area too. Trees are plentiful CLOSE to town. Going that far that time of day in that weather is odd, folks. But it sounds more like stupidity than malicious intent.
You're an idiot who obviously has no connection to the wild outdoor life. People do this every year in mountain states, go chop down our own trees! Many are woefully ignorant of a lot of people's particular lives. Geez, DUH 😒😬 don't be a dunce, many people still live real lives.
because you have to buy a permit and there are only certain areas that they let you cut Christmas tress there..it's a family tradition to alot of people here in Oregon ..That is why! We go up there to go sledding and make a day of playing in the snow. It's a sad story I lived in Klamath Falls when this boy disappeared..so sad
@@estelleschneider9033 Music? There's no music. There are notes played lightly in the background. Does everyone see the same video? Because I have no music in what I'm watching, just light notes in the background. Hmm?
As a mother, cases like these hit me hard. DC, you are an extraordinary writer and narrator, but, more importantly, you show such care and respect for the victims whose stories you relate. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. Let's all pray that this brave little laddie finds his way home someday.
This one hits close to home. I’ve lived in western Oregon all my life, and it can be so easy to get lost in the thick forests here, especially if it’s snowing.
Very well presented case, thank you. I think that a child going missing without a trace is one of the worst things that can happen to a family. How do you deal with this without going insane? This is another very sad case.
@@lighttheway5088 no shit right?! Like go fucking beat his ass! Make a scene! Hit him with your car! Atleast then the kid would of had a chance! You think thats his father? Well go maybe check?? Jesus christ! Im sure the kid would scream thats not his dad right away. People are fucked. I hope that witness lives in guilt for the rest of his or her life
Did the witness say it was definitely Milligan? Otherwise you never know. Murderers/pedophiles love to try to claim crimes that are not their own.. For whatever reason. Usually attention and notoriety. Disgusting pieces of shit. But it sounds about right esp if they can place him around the area during that time and if the witness can pick him out. I still cant figure out why the damn forensic team couldn't figure out if that was human or animal blood by the road.. So ridiculous. Im guessing human tho. Maybe the kid hit him with the hatchet?
I think he sadly wandered off and eventually succumbed to the elements. I also don't think a 8 yr old would know or be able to survive in such conditions as the family claimed.
I tend to agree. There's a famous case here in Maine that I always think of when I see or read these cases of a child dissappearing in the forest. The case of Don Fendler, who was lost on Mt. Khatadin in Maine. Fendler was found alive days after dissappearing, but easily could have died in the woods never to be found, in spite of extensive search efforts. In this case it seems possible this boy was abducted.
He may have been able to survive one night but multiple nights, not even an adult would survive that. With no way to gain warmth hypothermia would have taken its toll fairly quickly!
@Min Ara exactly. People are morons. They found evidence of a hatchet or ax hitting trees by the road.. The footprints ended there... And blood was found close to the road.. Hmmm i wonder what happened🤔 cmon people stop searching roads and start looking for black cars that match the description! Another case that someone watches someone else be kidnapped or murdered... Do something! Make sure thats his damn father! Most kids dont struggle to get away from a car like that. How did the grandfather AND dad not see this happen?!
The abduction theory makes a lot of sense. Car pulls up, he circled to run away, the abductor convinced him he was safe, so he circled back again completing the circular footprints.
True, but someone who is desperate to hold out hope will justify it by telling themselves anything necessary to hold onto, no matter whether or not it’s a stretch of imagination or a leap of faith.
You've done several stories that take place in Oregon and I've lived my whole life (54yrs) here. I just want to say that your pronunciation of our cities, counties, waterways, whatever is spot on! More than any other RUclipsr I've heard! Keep up the terrific work!
There’s a young boy missing but let’s not miss out on the Christmas party. There’s nothing more important than having a good time while a child is somewhere out alone and lost in the cold. That ticks me off. What a sad and tragic case. The entire family suffered. Robert and his father never again speaking to one another, the daughter turning to drugs, the parents having to sell their home and move to a smaller less expensive home. I think he wandered off and ended up at the road where he was abducted. Thank you for covering this case.
Can you imagine "psychics" taking the money from these desperate people to "help them" search for their son? That degree of cold, unfeeling callousness is truly horrifying to contemplate.
I absolutely agree! How it’s not illegal is beyond me! They give these grieving families false hope and they do it knowingly and without any reservations, that’s some evil, narcissistic stuff! I watched a show about “psychics” and it had people ask for help from them and gave them fake stories, the dumb psychics spun some wild stories and said they had no doubt that they had it all figured out 🤦♂️
I'm not buying it. How much further ahead could the father be? Couldn't have been far. Desperate to catch his father Derrick just wanders off? Police find boys footprints near the road, yet hours earlier the two men (one an experienced woods man) didnt detect his footprints leaving the trail. Just as the boy reaches the road a child killer drives by, at night in bad weather? Coincidence? I'm not buying it.
It has happened before though. The case if poor Sarah Payne in the UK. She went to play in a field behind her grandparents house with her 2 brothers. They had an argument and she walked off. Her brothers followed her. She got to the side if the road by the field when her brothers saw a car pull up and then drove off. The brother was able to give a description to the police. He was that close he was even able to describe the drivers crooked teeth as he smiled at him and drove off. Sarah had been abducted by a known peadophile who just happened to be driving by at that exact moment. Absolutely tragic.
Okay, so the maternal grandfather ,who from the information given about him, was an experienced hunter. How in the hell could he not track a human child?
It's depressing how most of the families always focus on the disappeared one and forget that they have other kids who are still young and need them. I get that they want justice, but at some point, one must accept that this kid is lost and if appear they will only have the remains and not condemn to oblivion and worse life their other children who consequently not only are affected by the missing sibling but the negligence of their parents, who lost their money chasing a ghost, lost their home, probably will not be able to pay for their kids higher education and well kinda lost their other tow kids too as they forgot about them. That girl didn't decide to do drugs because her brother went missing but because of the deteriorating situation in her family, the other kid had to watch his brother's items that traumatized him to please his parents till he got tired and relocated them and even so was blamed because of it. Break up a relationship with your own father because the old man couldn't keep up with the young boy (who is your kid and you either weren't supervising) is heartbreaking as you also make your other kids blame their grandfather. Seriously, it's a tragedy to lose a kid but if you have two remaining healthy smart kids why psychologically abandon them and dedicate yourself 24/7 for years to a ghost? There are two versions here the kid got lost and died, or the kid got kidnaped by a predator and was murdered. In both cases, given the location, his remains won't be found if they were unable to do it the first month (I would less than a month if his body was left in the forest, some animals get very hungry during winter. Just saying).
I grew up in Klamath Falls, tree ‘hunting’ at Christmas time. It is beautiful but can be very dangerous in the wilderness. You can hear/see a road and still end up lost and alone. My son, who goes to college in K Falls, had to walk ten miles out of the woods last spring after high centering his car; when the weather went from sunny to blizzard conditions. The weather changes quickly and often...and independent/odd people are attracted to the area. I graduated from Bonanza too; it has a population of about 350 people. It is so surreal to hear this story from this tiny place on earth. ♥️
Hunter Davis It’s when your tires aren’t in contact with the ground because the center of the undercarriage of your car is raised because of snow or mud. Make sense? ; )
So sad. People who abducted children, even if there’s no sexual malice, should be put away for good because they’re going to do it again. Castration seems like a good idea
Perhaps the didn’t want to end their family tradition of going out to chop down a tree and decided they could just give it away to a neighbor. There are better/more convincing stories they could have told the authorities if they were in fact just trying to cover their own asses.
So suss. The father went on ahead - but was inseperatable with his father 🤷♀️ Drove 45 mins to get a tree 🤷♀️ Grandfather got angry at him then he went missing 🤷♀️
I cannot imagine a greater heartbreak than the disappearance of a child. Poor Derrick has been missing for 21 years and the lack of immediate response by authorities is troubling and upsetting. I feel so bad for his family and the terrible outcome that has befallen them since his disappearance. Given the clues, it seems apparent that Derrick made it to the road and was taken/abducted from that point. It seems as if they were dealt a terrible hand from the moment of his disappearance and it became worse as the critical moments passed on. My heart breaks for this family. No closure or answers.
I’ve watched enough true crime to know that a guilty family member would not participate in months & years of searching... much less drain their personal finances to do it. How can people be so cruel to accuse them of killing Derrick - adding more insult & injury to their immense pain & loss. My heart breaks for them.
You are 100% correct! It frustrates me to no end when people blame the parents who are doing everything in their power to find their missing child. If they were guilty they would have let the whole thing drop. This is why I feel the DeOrr Kuntz case has nothing to do with the parents, they are still actively looking for answers.
Questions to consider: Q. How far was the nearest road from the last location he was seen? Q. Is it feasible he could make it to the road given the harsh elements? Q. Does the named suspect match the description as the ‘male seen struggling with a child’ alleged by the witness? Q. Whilst it’s claimed the named suspect owed a vehicle believed to be the same model as that seen in the area by the witness, did he have the means and opportunity to be in that specific area at the time? Q. Did police made sufficient enquiries with stores, diners, hotels, B&B’s and other landmarks across the state, in the event that if he had been abducted, his kidnapper went onto enter/ attend such locations with him (regardless how unlikely this may be). P.S. Tragically, If the kidnapper saw/ was flagged down by the boy at the roadside and posed as a police officer/ Good Samaritan, the 8 year would have been freezing, disorientated and desperate and would have likely accepted a ride from the kidnapper (without a struggle).
The road was straight ahead. He wouldnt of been freezing yet. They would of found him if he was taken. Thats why its pretty obvious he didnt die in the snow. No trace was ever even found.
Many people and children go missing in Oregon every year. We lived there for 8 years and there were constant stories of people "gone missing". The Pacific NW draws a great many "questionable" characters and oddballs. Many live in the woods and by their own ways. Very creepy and remote habitations can be encountered just on a simple day hike. Keep vigilant, always armed...
Years ago, I read that the soil composition in some areas of the Pacific NW is such that a body will decompose so thoroughly as to never leave a trace.
I have done EXTENSIVE research about Derrick. This is a very sad story. There is a man who is already in prison (for another crime, not connected to Derrick) that kidnapped and murdered Derrick. The authorities know who this man is but do nothing because he is already in prison and Derrick has never been found. There is SO much more to this story!!! This was a crime of opportunity, Derrick was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have been to the area where he went missing, Derrick is not on that mountain! :*(
But, what was Milligan doing on Westside Rd? He lived in the Salem area. Was he thinking on taking the southern road to Crater Lake in such heavy snow, and likely to get stuck? Doesn't make sense heading across 10 Mile Rd, then up the south rd to Crater Lake in such heavy snow. If he was heading home to Salem with a kidnapped kid, he'd have to cross the Cascades somehow.
A perplexing and very tragic case. Something feels off here...it seems there would have been tracks immediately after realizing he wasn't with dad. So many questions and possibilities. A random abduction in such a remote area seems very unlikely, especially on a snowy blustery day. Unless, of course, there was a killer stalking. Many prayers and peace to the family in pain. Thank you for another stellar case. Looking forward to the next !
My ex husband started the search and rescue team in our area. I'll say one thing - they live for search and rescue. It's HIGHLY unlikely that they "ignored the request to search for the missing boy". I know dozens and dozens of firefighters, EMTs, cops, etc., none of whom would ignore a rescue request, especially one involving a small child. I'm wondering if a proper request was not received, which I've seen happen before. Every single time a call came through, emergency personnel have acted immediately. Both of my sons are firefighters and they would have dropped everything to go look for Derrick. I also know people in the area as I used to live close by. I don't know one person who would prefer the party over looking for a lost boy. It's just so unfortunate that they didn't get there sooner. My heart goes out to the family. I can only imagine the guilt the grandfather carries for allowing Derrick to run to his dad. What and absolute nightmare. Here they were doing something kind for a neighbor and their worst nightmare came true. There couldn't have been many people on the road at that time under those conditions. If he was kidnapped, it would have been the most unfortunate and random timing. My heart breaks with the thought of what happened, whether kidnapping or succumbing to the elements. 💔💔💔
This might sound harsh but the father and grandfather failed Derrick. They should not have waited until almost night fall to cut down a tree and in a snow storm. They thought that 8 year-old Derrick was able to take care of himself and survive in such elements but he still is a child and needed to be watched closely. 😕
Any phrase that uses in the words” Delay because of a Christmas party” or any variation of that usually means that people were drunk and they had to sober up
When I was young we were camping in the woods. My friend and I wondered ahead... we found a wooden box... wr went to check it out and a man was in there. Thankfully my friends dad showed up just then. Scary to think about now that I am 40 looking back.
Okay, we need more on this story. Was the man dead or alive and do you know why he was there? Inquiring minds want to know. Quite an intriguing story, please don't leave us hanging.
This story of him vanishing in the woods following a trail between his grandpa and father doesn’t hold water. If you made a horrible mistake and then needed someone’s help to cover up that mistake and provide a corroborating story who would you likely trust more than anyone?
This is tragic. Poor little Derek, poor family. It does seem likely that he was abducted given the way the small footprints seemed to be uncertain - was he being menaced? - and then vanished at the roadside. I hope his parents find out the truth and manage to go on.
@@wildplumbeauty idk the way they kept searching for so long... I think they would of found some sign of him.. Torn clothing.. Something. And how his trail cuts off completely at the road. Its likely he was taken. And blood was found by the road too. Plus hes a small child, he couldnt of gone too far. If he had died there im sure someone would of seen a sign of him by now.
I am forever thankful that all my children have made it to adulthood. It doesn’t stop me from still worrying about each one, their spouses and children everyday. My heart breaks with each and every story like this.
This is every parent's nightmare - you lose our kid out of sight for just a little while, and never see him again. The family really could have used a therapist, though, to focus on their surviving children. To be absorbed in loss and grief for so long... I don't know how one deals with losing a child but you really cannot blame the brother for not wanting to be constantly reminded, he did a very reasonable thing for the preservation of his own mental health. You really need to move on, somehow, and not keep the wound from healing. Poor family.
I live very close to where this happened and it absolutely sickens me that the search and rescue team favored a Christmas party over a missing child!! All those lost hours and lost evidence absolutely kills me and breaks my heart. I hope this is solved one day soon and the family can get some answers. Thank you for covering this case and an Oregon case!
I've followed this case for years. My question is: Why was this Christmas the first time the Engebretson family, purchased an artificial tree? It seems irrelevant but I think it's a red flag. So, the family decides to have an artificial tree this year for the first time, but trek out into the wilderness to cut down a real tree for a disabled neighbor? If you were going to do that, you would have gotten your own real tree as usual, then get a tree for the neighbor. Or, give the neighbor an artificial tree, and have a real tree as usual for yourself. I shouldn't say more but there are lots of questionable aspects to this story.
How does the pretext of getting a tree for the neighbors or themselves make a difference in analyzing their involvement in their son’s disappearance? Sounds utterly irrelevant
I can say from my own experience that even when you are in very familiar territory it is amazingly easy to get disoriented. I was walking my dog on a trail I knew really well and didn't realize that it was getting dark so quickly. All of a sudden I realized that I could not see the trail and did not know which way to go. And this was during the summer without the problem of snow. I do wonder why no trace of him was found over the years indicating that perhaps he was abducted. I can not begin to imagine how the family could ever get beyond this incident not knowing what happened to him.
How much distance was there between the grandfather and the father? If he wandered off the track surley he would have called out to his family members!!!! Was the predator lurking just there where they were walking????? Seems strange to me the kid didn't call out unless he was kidnapped which seems unlikely to me.
He must have beeb kidnapped or he would def call out for help just like the father and grandpa were doing too. Eventually some sign of him would surely be found. I dont doubt for a second that the poor kid was kidnapped.. The chances are very unlikely but it happens. Very unlucky and unfortunate
It's truly frightening how predators lurk in the most unlikely of places, just waiting for a moment of opportunity. I do believe he was taken when he neared the road.
So basically it's the Grandad's fault for letting the eight-year-old child follow his dad in inches of snow. I think it's extremely likely that when the footprints stopped appearing once Derek reached the road he was abducted
What a tragic event, I cannot even comprehend what the parents went through. Any family that searches and searches for their son, over years, costs them everything financial as well as mentally cannot be blamed in anyway. We as parents have all made silly mistakes with our children, luckily for us it never ended like this. Its called being a parent, no one is perfect, switching off for a second or not thinking clearly can be fatal, as we have just seen. My thoughts and prayers are with the family of this boy.
Yep, if my mom or dad was to be responsible for my child, and let them out of their sight in the forest...and one of my kids went missing...I would never speak to that parent again.
16:04 I know that it is far from unheard of to have someone confess to a crime they didn’t commit but, in this case, I think that it’s absolutely possible that Milligan is responsible. Just because Milligan didn’t correctly lead them to the child’s body doesn’t mean that he doesn’t know exactly where it is. Additionally, I also think it’s possible that Milligan DID lead investigators to a burial site but that it just didn’t happen to be Derrick’s. LEO said that multiple animal bones were recovered which leads me to speculate that Milligan was harming, killing and burying animals before he went after larger prey in the form of innocent young boys. I’ve even had to consider that, since Milligan is desperate to avoid the death penalty, he might not be divulging where Derrick is purely out of his need for self preservation, knowing that should he tell LEO where to look that they’d be finding more than one body and that the deal he made was for the recovery of Derrick and Derrick alone. I’d definitely be interested in knowing more about who Milligan’s cell mate was - what was he incarcerated for, what was his track record, could he be considered reliable, what (if any) favors did he ask for after snitching on Milligan, etc. Basically, above all else, the cell mate would *HAVE to be* considered truthful and reliable as the one issue I have with this whole situation is whether Milligan said anything at all. Being a pedophile is usually a very solitary endeavor and, conventionally, it’s not something one would brag about. So, remaining tightlipped on one’s sick perversions would be especially pertinent for an individual who is already incarcerated, for obvious reasons. Why would Milligan confide in his cell mate? Once you figure that out then it’ll be easier to discern whether the cell mate is being totally forthcoming or not. But, at the end of the day, even if Milligan is not guilty for Derrick’s demise, he IS responsible for the other two crimes he was charged with and being in prison is exactly where he should be.
Vast wilderness, thick forest, deep snow on the ground, falling darkness, fresh snow about to fall - and someone thinks it is wise to let an 8 years old roam around unsupervised? Can someone really rely on a child's "survival skills" in such harsh environment? He couldn't even see the terrain from the snow. Any sane, serious, experienced and responsible adult would tell you that that was neither a place nor the time to let a child out of the sight.
The lack of care from the search and rescue team is utterly unbelievable. People trained and employed for that very reason ignoring the request to help a lost child is something I just cannot fathom
I'm really enjoying your channel and content. Unknown and lesser publicised cases are always great as they need to be made known. You remind me Alot of the female who does Heavy Casefiles. I enjoy both your videos aswell as Merc, Mr Davis and That Chapter. It's a good community of people on RUclips covering these topics and since Cayleigh Elise is no longer on RUclips it's nice to have some channels in her place, not to say she's better or you're better but for watching and appreciation of the work and info you provide. Mysterious WV is another grand channel that deals with local murders and disappearances in the general Virginia area mainly west but also sometimes parts of Ohio county and areas surrounding WV. Anyway I'm really thankful for your channel. I'm appalled at the lack of compassion for this missing boy on part of the police and such on Christmas day. They needed to sit down and tuck in to a meal while a young boy is possibly freezing to death in the frozen woods or worse under the "care" of a vicious pedophile... 😓😢😡😠🤬
The parents put themselves in a bad situation from the start. Such a long drive to get a tree? Should have know there was a blizzard on the way too...this is very odd. The kid had to have been kidnapped if the area was so thoroughly searched. But kidnapped out in the snow when the parents were so close? Wth.
my mother was this boys first grade teacher at Bonanza Elementary School the year he disappeared. It became a very difficult year for her and the remaining children. With the questions we have today, imagine trying to explain this to those kids! Mom found Derrick to be a difficult student that required a lot of specialized attention. Not bad just time consuming. At the time, she felt the family to be a deeply problematic one. "Something just doesn't feel right." It all seems so very sad now. 🖖
Thank you for doing cases that most people have never heard instead of doing the popular ones that every other RUclipsr has a video of!!! ❤️❤️ thank you for being a voice for people who need to be heard ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️🌺🌷🌹😛🐸🙌🏽💋🙏🏿🌞🖼
So sad, what could have happened to the boy. Maybe their is something that they could have missed or didn’t search. I’m upset as well at the incompetence of the police preferring a party than looking for a missing child.
Ann Marie Sorondo I don’t think they preferred to party. I’m guessing the party was well in progress. Do you propose that rescue workers have no life at all and just wait for the next phone call.
This disappearance sounds so similar to the DeOrr Kunz case, each grandfather saying "I thought he was with you and visa versa." I think with DeOrr he fell into the creek, drowned and was carried downstream and Derrick too succumbed to the elements, you never stop missing or loving your lost child.
Justelle's Life Tbh ..old grandads are not so sharp on the ethics of minding kids;and possibly was so encroached on what they were doing were not mindful of the care that is needed looking after a 8 yrnold ...kids will wander off . They need to be literally tied to you out there in that sort wilderness ..getting lost takes a few mins. Don’t leave kids in the hands of very old folk.
I am a huge fan of your channel and I just wanted to thank you for amazing videos. You are really doing a great job! I like your narration, sound of your voice and your accent. I also like how your videos are done. You provide us with a lot of information, but without unnecessary details. They are always interesting even the content is so dark and heartbreaking. Great job! Greetings from Germany!
This missing person case is horrific beyond belief.The worst part is the not knowing . It's impossible to imagine the heartache.
Spencer Ludgrove: Right. It's the not knowing that is the absolute worst. No answers. No evidence. It's just sad.
It's a punishment on the whole family, so many cases they forget and dont cooperate even caught
Spencer Ludgrove My parents have always said the worst possible thing that could happen to them is not one of us dying, it’s one of us going missing. Never knowing where we are or what’s happening to us. I feel terrible for families and loved ones who never get a solid answer.
Then you just imagine what happened to the lad.
Agreed. This is the most depressing story I've ever heard.
I really feel for the siblings in cases like this. Not only do they lose their brother/sister, but they also lose their parents to the consuming void of the lost child. It's heartbreaking.
Yeah, look what happened to Cary Stayner after all. His brother Steven disappeared and his parents uprooted them from on a whim searching from State to State following tip after tip. Then the Yosemite serial killer was born…? Nah, prolly woulda happened anyway since Cary confessed to murderous fantasies before Steven was abducted. But if you haven’t heard of the story, The Crime Reel has a very interesting 2 parter covering this. Derrick’s case also hits some of the Missing 411 criteria… Just a thought. Also what happened to ft Mollie Westbrook?
Yes they become forgotten
Was anyone else horrified by the part of the story where she explained that the younger brother was suffering so much to still see all of his brothers belongings in the room they shared that he couldn't bear it anymore and put them in the garage, only for his mother to get very angry at him. Can you imagine being forced to live with your dead brothers stuff in the room you used to share ?!? This part really proves that people will lose their minds from losing a child. She wasn't even capable of supporting her living son, and wasn't able to see that she was torturing him by forcing him to wake up to his brothers belongings every morning. It must have been traumatizing. I feel very much for the parents, but not any less for his siblings. They all suffered horribly.
I understand both sides. I lost my brother when I was 11. He collapsed and died suddenly while we were playing in his bedroom. My parents kept the room intact for years, and it was difficult for me to go in there, much less be in the same house. I came home from college one day and they had completely refurnished it. Although they kept the cat calendar my brother had hanging in his closet, and it's still there, still on the month of his death almost 50 years ago.
But at least you did not share a bedroom with him and each of you had your own separate rooms, so you wouldn't have to wake up and see all his belongings next to you like in this case.
What I've learned from a lot of these "kid gets lost in the forest and is never seen again" is: don't let your kids be alone, even for a minute. Don't let them run ahead or catch up, and don't let them run back to camp without supervision.
Exactly! These stories are preventable!
@@sarah06ish The father should not have relied on Grandpa with an energetic 8 yo. Grandpa could've been between 60-80
Watch the documentary Missing 411. It's free on RUclips with ads. It focuses on missing kids in America's national parks.
Exactly!!!
I am confused. He was 8 years old! I may don't understand the kind of enviroment he went missing from since I'm from a different country but 8 years is too old to "never be let out of sight". Were I live you of course don't let your 8year old run around alone all day but most go alone to school, Visit friends if they live close by and things like that. I mean, every parent and child is different and I don't want to say you should let your child out after dark or in a unsafe place but they have to learn managing things alone, of course Step by step and in relation to Age and ability.
His poor Mom and Dad. Hearing about him crawling through the snow and getting frostbite and pneumonia broke my heart and hearing the mental anguish his Mom went through. We all need to wrap them in our prayers. Hug our children closely. As a Mother there is no worse nightmare than I could imagine if I were to lose a child.
Yeah I hope he’s worked through some things and learned to forgive his father bc he obviously can’t be blamed for this horrible tragedy. Misdirected anger and blame have to go somewhere at the time I guess when there’s an overwhelming amount of it.
@@robinmcinarnay7827Anger is a common symptom of profound grief. People can turn it on themselves and others.
I lost my daughter when she was 4 years old, we where on holiday, I was laying down in the sun and she was beside me, a few seconds later she was gone, she must of got up and wandered of in no time at all, my heart broke and my stomach turned and I was physically sick, we run around frantic, the feeling was horrendous I’ll never forget that, it took 20 minutes but we got lucky and found her just walking not to far away, I can only imagine what it would of felt like if we didn’t find her, my heart breaks for the parents of missing children, but it just showed me how easy a loved one could just disappear. Love and respect from the United Kingdom.
Same thing. My daughter was 3. We were with family. All walking together about 15 of us with 7 kids. I lost her for over 10min. Until a woman that looked like my handed her back to me. I fell to the ground and cried. I left the party and went to my mom's where I had a nervous breakdown. It killed me. She started walking behind a woman that looked like me and I took my eyes off her for a second. I don't know what i would have done if someone nefarious took her from me.
That's so true! I lost my son in a shop once. He was about 3. My daughter was in the pushchair and he was holding onto the pushchair, as I always told him to. I turned to the cashier and paid for my purchase - a matter of maybe 5 seconds, as I had my money ready - and when I turned back, he was gone! I searched the whole shop (it was quite big) and the area outside, asking everybody if they had seen a littlr boy in a brown coat, but no sign of him. I decided that I couldn't leave it any longer and ran with my pushchair to the Police Station, not too far away, and reported him missing. We were so lucky - someone had phoned them to say they had found a little boy in a brown coat wandering along the High Street and the Police had gone to pick him up. He must have nipped out of the shop door, down the road and round the corner into the High Street! Quite a long way for a small child! It makes me shake even now, decades later. I had two more children and used reigns (toddler harness) after that!
I'm so glad you managed to find your child safe and well. I'm not a parent but I can only imagine the gut wrenching terror you must have experienced during those 20 minutes.
I'm from the UK too. Was in a shop with my son and put him in one of those shopping trollies with the car at the front, had a harness and a belt but he still managed to get out.he was tricky that way a little 3yr old houdini. Luckily caught up with him a few minutes later but it's the worst feeling ever. To think we all feel that for minutes but we're the lucky ones, wouldn't like to feel that loss forever would be unbearable!
This child is part of the ......missing 411 series
What was the grandfather thinking by letting the kid go off alone to find his dad. I don't care if there's prints in the snow to follow. It was a risky, stupid thing to do.
elderly people just don't care.
He was probably a senile old fuck. The boy was probably long gone before the old man told him to catch up with his dad (he probably told that to some tree stump he thought was his grandson).
I am wondering why the grandfather wasn't a serious suspect? He was angered by his grandson hitting at trees with his hatchet. The hatchet was never found...........
@MR PEEVES well what were the Father and the Mother thinking by having an elderly man take their kid out in a snowy forrest on a Christmas eve afternoon?????
Depends how far away the father was. If he was way ahead, it was irresponsible. If he was in view, not so much.
A lot of people dropped the ball on this one.
BLOODY POND LIVES I listen to a few true crime podcasts and have seen many missing persons documentaries and short clips like this.
Dropping the ball much more common with the authorities than people realize. It’s sad and frustrating!
@@emilywalker3352 they simply aren't trained in missing persons.. add the arrogance to that and you have a formula for failure.
David Parry are you that triggered by the usa that you have to make comments in unrelated threads about it?
Yes. And why was kid aloud to go walk by himself. His dad was ascending not descending. And to a road no less. Messed up stuff dude.
@David Parry Nice thought right? However, sadly, we are, and always will be, a joke to the entire world.
8:00 now that is a portrait of a man in grave pain
I believe the little boy was abducted on the road. His footprints ended there. Some opportunist got him.
Broke my heart... His father crawled through the woods looking for him... I can't even begin to imagine the all-consuming pain parents of missing children must feel... I hope these parents find the peace that surpasses all understanding, because I cannot see any way to begin to cope with your child never again within your grasp... 🙍
dementia-praecox, given the evidence presented from D.C., that is my theory as well.
Heartbreaking
another kid was missing exactly in that area and he was killed by a pedophile
@@kellymeggison9418 So far beyond the odds. It makes no sense.
My immediate thought was that the boy had been hit by a car. Bad drivers are much more common than violent pedophiles. And in snowfall, in dusk, in darkness, when the road is icy, even the good drivers can become bad drivers. Even the good drivers can make horrible mistakes.
The driver then hid or buried the boy's body. Either because he panicked, or because he was just afraid of consequences. Didn't want to go to jail, didn't want to face the boy's parents.
The attention you bring to these cases is invaluable in keeping the names and faces of the missing or murdered in the public eye. The more people who watch these videos, the greater chance that a missing loved one may be returned to their family or a murder victim may find justice. Keep up the good work.
widow twanky, I agree with you and wish you well. X
Oh yeah the Christmas dinner always takes precedence over a missing child in the snow covered forest with sub zero temperatures. 🤦♀️
NM8 it's amazing how people will act isn't?
I was going to joke about how after a week of putting up with wankers in my home town I now have DC, Kirsty and others to look forward to but seeing how they prioritized this poor little boy?
I fell silent. His last moments on the Earth must've been horrible. Alone and scared in the snow :(
Right ? 😤
NonieMacB but maybe they had a few drinks. They probably had to sober up a bit. Go easy on them. I'm sure they weren't just siting there partying it up, not caring that a kid is lost. Maybe there was a mix up in communication. They put their lives on the line searching for us. We need to cut them some slack.
@@davidaston5773 they were probably inebriated and a search would have put lives at more risk. These people are heroes and you have the nerve to criticize them when you haven't done a thing to find the missing.
That is infuriating.
If his footprints stopped at the road, why would investigators think he succumbed to the elements... I'm thinking he was abducted, and that Milligan might be the likely suspect considering the witness account and the fact he drove a similar vehicle. Scary to think a child could be abducted in the middle of nowhere, on a lonely mountain road. What are the odds of that?! I hope and pray his family finds answers, and peace.
I think it was Milligan 100% he basically confessed to the police and an inmate. Pedophiles confess to inmates all the time and usually it's true.
If that’s the case, what horrible luck and timing for a predator to be driving by as this poor boy wandered onto the road.
@@rachelpalmiero5360 I know. To think it would be possible to run into an abductor in the woods during a blizzard.
Omg I know!! What could the odds of that happening possibly be?! I would never see that coming.. But id never let my child walk off without me on a snowy dangerous mountain wjen its so close to night time already
That theory has problems too.
I almost cried at the part about leaving the tree & his presents untouched for 3 years.
This poor family. Stuck in limbo. It’s called ambiguous grief. On top of it they had people blaming them for their beloved child’s disappearance. If you ever want to know where hell is located - ask the parent of a missing child. Parents are stuck in hellish limbo. They never get a respite from it. No matter how many years pass by. Thank you for bringing attention to this story. Hopefully some day the Engebretsen Family will get some answers. It’s the “not knowing” that torments the souls of the families of the missing the most. 😰😰😰
Right....It must be like a nightmare from which you never wake...
@Cheryl Campbell I think you may be right. That more came more later. Or maybe I’m remembering comments made by people when it was discussed. 🤔 But I know in subsequent years the poor family has been put through a lot. I just hope someday they can find answers and attain some semblance of inner peace. 💔😰
I don't have kids yet but god damn that would be the worst.
I honestly think, for how long the case has been going, we will never get our answers.
This is heartbreaking. This whole family fell apart. My heart breaks for them.
Proof? You know them personally?
Losing a child to death is hard enough, but I can't imagine losing your child without any answers as to what happened. It's an open wound that never heals. My heart goes out to this poor family. I hope they can find peace and forgiveness within each other someday. Rip Eric.
A young child ( no matter how adventurous or experienced in the outdoors), is still young. He should have never been allowed to venture out by himself. A mistake his grandfather has to live with the rest of his life.
i’m very disappointed that they felt a christmas party was more important than the search of a missing child smh 🤦♀️
Many search and rescue parties are entirely volunteers. Furthermore, there are policies that you cant participate in a mission if you have been drinking (for the obvious). These are small communities without resources to hire appropriate services to respond to emergencies in timely manners.
He was already probably gone..
@@MusicforYoungViolinists I was thinking the same thing, it a party and if they were drinking even a glass of wine or a single beer you don't go out searching. I bet every single one of them felt like crap about the timing of the party.
I personally know MANY search and rescue people and I'll say one thing - they live for it! I cannot picture one person on the team responding to a missing child request saying, "Screw that! I want to party!" I even know people in the area as I used to live close by, and I can't picture any of them being anything but immediately concerned and jumping into action. I don't know what happened, but I'm going to guess that there was some kind of miscommunication.
Both of my sons are firefighters and my ex started the local search and rescue team here. Wild horses couldn't drag and of those guys away from a rescue, whether it was Christmas or not.
@@VioletJoy its true. Heard it from my grandmother herself.
This is just so damn tragic. This poor family, how badly his disappearance affected the entire family. I hope they're all able to find some form of peace, some day.
So not only does he get lost, he actually finds the road and just happened to be picked up by a 1 in a 500k crazy person. Thats insanely terrible luck poor sweet child, if im that Grandpa I feel never ending guilt and shame.
Occam's Razor. He died in the Forest
Danny Madness 1 in 500k? Those are some optimistic statistics.
@MR PEEVES My thoughts exactly.
The parents are naturally holding out hope, but it's delusional to think an 8 year old "knows how to survive in the wilderness."
My thoughts too. It was close to dark already and the nights are long and cold 🥶 in December. Wolves start howling, owls start hooting and any 8 year old is going to be spooked. Poor kid.
Yamato Tanooka (age 7) - 6 days
Tserin Dopchut (age 3) - 3 days
Malachi Bradley (age 10) - 29 hours
Leia & Caroline Carrico (ages 8 and 5) - 44 hours
@@Ruby321123 were any of those children lost in the dead of winter during a blizzard?
Could not have said it better myself.
I'm in my 40s, ex military, trained in survival and lived in a rural setting all my life and I'd struggle to make it with no kit in those conditions even with my history and training.
You really captured the grief his family went through.
Yupp
as a father to a young boy, this case has depressed me to my core!
@M H
Glad that you have that idea -- to clean-up society a little. Nothing wrong with that. We all want to find out that a real Dexter exists to right the wrongs. Just do it, okay?
Why drive 45 miles for a tree (90 miles round-trip)? THEN scale a hill in deep snow to cut down the tree, and lug it down the hill to secure it to the car and drive another 45 miles to return home? Why the late start when they knew it would be getting dark by 4 pm? And a blizzard blew in. . . hadn't they checked the weather report before leaving? Not intimating that dad and grandfather did anything to the boy, BUT their judgement was terrible. .
These are all the first things the cops would have inquired about. By the sound of their background (e.g. spontaneous hunting trips, regularly endangering the lives of their children,) this doesn’t appear unprecedented or suspicious.
@@thebrocialist8300 It was reckless but my heart still goes out to them.
True Blue Yes. I am familiar with area too. Trees are plentiful CLOSE to town. Going that far that time of day in that weather is odd, folks. But it sounds more like stupidity than malicious intent.
You're an idiot who obviously has no connection to the wild outdoor life.
People do this every year in mountain states, go chop down our own trees! Many are woefully ignorant of a lot of people's particular lives.
Geez, DUH 😒😬 don't be a dunce, many people still live real lives.
because you have to buy a permit and there are only certain areas that they let you cut Christmas tress there..it's a family tradition to alot of people here in Oregon ..That is why! We go up there to go sledding and make a day of playing in the snow. It's a sad story I lived in Klamath Falls when this boy disappeared..so sad
A nightmare is not something that happens when your asleep, it's what happens in life when we are fully awake.
@@bestversion8159 You've not had much life experience, have you?
I've had a waking nightmare for 50 plus years? SHIT!
The music needs to be taken off..cannot even hear the person speaking..too loud and very unnecessary 🙄😱
@@estelleschneider9033 Music? There's no music. There are notes played lightly in the background. Does everyone see the same video? Because I have no music in what I'm watching, just light notes in the background. Hmm?
Very well put. I'd live in my dreams if I could... Life is a daily nightmare atm.
I live in the area this happened and remember it well. Poor baby, it's still talked about and is the reason I joined search and rescue locally.
You have one of the best story telling voices I've heard in a long time.
As a mother, cases like these hit me hard. DC, you are an extraordinary writer and narrator, but, more importantly, you show such care and respect for the victims whose stories you relate. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. Let's all pray that this brave little laddie finds his way home someday.
I agree.
I love her writing and narrating also. The accent is just a bonus. 🤍
It's highly unlikely
This one hits close to home.
I’ve lived in western Oregon all my life, and it can be so easy to get lost in the thick forests here, especially if it’s snowing.
Very well presented case, thank you. I think that a child going missing without a trace is one of the worst things that can happen to a family. How do you deal with this without going insane?
This is another very sad case.
Why would anyone drive 45 miles to get a tree?
I thought that too, especially knowing daylight was fading.
smm855 And why drive later in the afternoon... with only a 2 hr window before night fall .... having trouble believing this story
smm855 I’ve known ppl who drove much further... they made a whole day trip of it. But i hear you; it makes no sense to me.
That was my comment also
I agree with you
Milligan did it. He had a car exactly like the one reported to have been seen by witnesses along with a man struggling with a young boy.
“A man struggling with a young boy”...WHY do people ignore situations like that ?
@@lighttheway5088 no shit right?! Like go fucking beat his ass! Make a scene! Hit him with your car! Atleast then the kid would of had a chance! You think thats his father? Well go maybe check?? Jesus christ! Im sure the kid would scream thats not his dad right away. People are fucked. I hope that witness lives in guilt for the rest of his or her life
Did the witness say it was definitely Milligan? Otherwise you never know. Murderers/pedophiles love to try to claim crimes that are not their own.. For whatever reason. Usually attention and notoriety. Disgusting pieces of shit. But it sounds about right esp if they can place him around the area during that time and if the witness can pick him out. I still cant figure out why the damn forensic team couldn't figure out if that was human or animal blood by the road.. So ridiculous. Im guessing human tho. Maybe the kid hit him with the hatchet?
Yes
@@cameronmoney7084 now they'd just take out their phones and video the kidnap.
These missing children stories are the saddest pf all the other crimes of cold cases. Any parent can feel for these people.
I think he sadly wandered off and eventually succumbed to the elements. I also don't think a 8 yr old would know or be able to survive in such conditions as the family claimed.
I tend to agree. There's a famous case here in Maine that I always think of when I see or read these cases of a child dissappearing in the forest. The case of Don Fendler, who was lost on Mt. Khatadin in Maine. Fendler was found alive days after dissappearing, but easily could have died in the woods never to be found, in spite of extensive search efforts. In this case it seems possible this boy was abducted.
I would tend to believe that but none of his clothing has been found--and would likely if animals had found him. Baffling.
He may have been able to survive one night but multiple nights, not even an adult would survive that. With no way to gain warmth hypothermia would have taken its toll fairly quickly!
@Min Ara exactly. People are morons. They found evidence of a hatchet or ax hitting trees by the road.. The footprints ended there... And blood was found close to the road.. Hmmm i wonder what happened🤔 cmon people stop searching roads and start looking for black cars that match the description! Another case that someone watches someone else be kidnapped or murdered... Do something! Make sure thats his damn father! Most kids dont struggle to get away from a car like that. How did the grandfather AND dad not see this happen?!
I still couldn't walk one week after giving birth and she was hunting bears? Wow.
Patricia Emery, that's what I was thinking. Some people do stupid things just because they can and just so they can tell what they've done.
Strength vs weakness.
The abduction theory makes a lot of sense. Car pulls up, he circled to run away, the abductor convinced him he was safe, so he circled back again completing the circular footprints.
That picture of Robert searching absolutely broke my heart...
One of the more tragic and frustrating cases I've ever heard. My heart goes out to that family.
True, but someone who is desperate to hold out hope will justify it by telling themselves anything necessary to hold onto, no matter whether or not it’s a stretch of imagination or a leap of faith.
You've done several stories that take place in Oregon and I've lived my whole life (54yrs) here. I just want to say that your pronunciation of our cities, counties, waterways, whatever is spot on! More than any other RUclipsr I've heard!
Keep up the terrific work!
There’s a young boy missing but let’s not miss out on the Christmas party. There’s nothing more important than having a good time while a child is somewhere out alone and lost in the cold. That ticks me off. What a sad and tragic case. The entire family suffered. Robert and his father never again speaking to one another, the daughter turning to drugs, the parents having to sell their home and move to a smaller less expensive home. I think he wandered off and ended up at the road where he was abducted. Thank you for covering this case.
Christmas is a fake, nobody, even the catholic pope doesn't know when the Jesus Christ was born, and these good Catholics didn't care, shame
Can you imagine "psychics" taking the money from these desperate people to "help them" search for their son? That degree of cold, unfeeling callousness is truly horrifying to contemplate.
Disgusting. That poor family was so desperate to find answers. 💔
The parents wanted any hope they could get. And the psychics obliged
I absolutely agree! How it’s not illegal is beyond me! They give these grieving families false hope and they do it knowingly and without any reservations, that’s some evil, narcissistic stuff! I watched a show about “psychics” and it had people ask for help from them and gave them fake stories, the dumb psychics spun some wild stories and said they had no doubt that they had it all figured out 🤦♂️
But I think some psychics genuinely think that their psychic.
I'm not buying it. How much further ahead could the father be? Couldn't have been far. Desperate to catch his father Derrick just wanders off? Police find boys footprints near the road, yet hours earlier the two men (one an experienced woods man) didnt detect his footprints leaving the trail. Just as the boy reaches the road a child killer drives by, at night in bad weather? Coincidence? I'm not buying it.
Agree.
Ok...so what happened?
Yep something just doesn't sit right
@@stephanieruppelt7471 Missing 411. The official YT channel is called Can Am Missing, explains this abduction phenomenon in more detail
It has happened before though. The case if poor Sarah Payne in the UK. She went to play in a field behind her grandparents house with her 2 brothers. They had an argument and she walked off. Her brothers followed her. She got to the side if the road by the field when her brothers saw a car pull up and then drove off. The brother was able to give a description to the police. He was that close he was even able to describe the drivers crooked teeth as he smiled at him and drove off. Sarah had been abducted by a known peadophile who just happened to be driving by at that exact moment. Absolutely tragic.
Okay, so the maternal grandfather ,who from the information given about him, was an experienced hunter. How in the hell could he not track a human child?
They did. They tracked him to the road.
It was his father's father, Derrick's Fraternal grandfather.
You have a fabulous narrative voice! Thanks for making such great content.
It's depressing how most of the families always focus on the disappeared one and forget that they have other kids who are still young and need them. I get that they want justice, but at some point, one must accept that this kid is lost and if appear they will only have the remains and not condemn to oblivion and worse life their other children who consequently not only are affected by the missing sibling but the negligence of their parents, who lost their money chasing a ghost, lost their home, probably will not be able to pay for their kids higher education and well kinda lost their other tow kids too as they forgot about them.
That girl didn't decide to do drugs because her brother went missing but because of the deteriorating situation in her family, the other kid had to watch his brother's items that traumatized him to please his parents till he got tired and relocated them and even so was blamed because of it.
Break up a relationship with your own father because the old man couldn't keep up with the young boy (who is your kid and you either weren't supervising) is heartbreaking as you also make your other kids blame their grandfather.
Seriously, it's a tragedy to lose a kid but if you have two remaining healthy smart kids why psychologically abandon them and dedicate yourself 24/7 for years to a ghost? There are two versions here the kid got lost and died, or the kid got kidnaped by a predator and was murdered. In both cases, given the location, his remains won't be found if they were unable to do it the first month (I would less than a month if his body was left in the forest, some animals get very hungry during winter. Just saying).
In my opinion he was taken by an adult and killed the same day.
Just a Happy American-Canadian I agree. Sadly I think he was taken from the roadside. He probably wasn’t alive for long after that.
@Zebra Lady75 Jeffery Epstein
Maybe it is a cycle, happens to one person, they grow up and do it to others
Agree. On average, abducted children are killed within the first 3 hours.(US Crime Stats).
Sarah holland god that’s awful
I grew up in Klamath Falls, tree ‘hunting’ at Christmas time. It is beautiful but can be very dangerous in the wilderness. You can hear/see a road and still end up lost and alone. My son, who goes to college in K Falls, had to walk ten miles out of the woods last spring after high centering his car; when the weather went from sunny to blizzard conditions. The weather changes quickly and often...and independent/odd people are attracted to the area. I graduated from Bonanza too; it has a population of about 350 people. It is so surreal to hear this story from this tiny place on earth. ♥️
What’s high centering?
@vikki davina I am always in awe of the first settlers (the Native groups and the early european settlers must have been quite amazing people).
I live in klamath also and it’s crazy to hear about a case from here
@@hunterdavis3003 i think she means when you are on a slope and your car flips over on its side. Its quite common on snowy mountain roads.
Hunter Davis
It’s when your tires aren’t in contact with the ground because the center of the undercarriage of your car is raised because of snow or mud. Make sense? ; )
So sad. People who abducted children, even if there’s no sexual malice, should be put away for good because they’re going to do it again. Castration seems like a good idea
Lobotomy is better.
Well you can’t castrate a woman and many children are abducted by women. Should we cut their tits off?
So, they bought their tree. Went 45 miles to cut the "perfect" tree for a neighbor? That caught my attention right away!
The one they bought was their first fake one, imagine they were just being nice.
Yes. I said the same. And it was their first artificial tree.
Perhaps the didn’t want to end their family tradition of going out to chop down a tree and decided they could just give it away to a neighbor.
There are better/more convincing stories they could have told the authorities if they were in fact just trying to cover their own asses.
Amanda Hudson OMG IMMEDIATELY SPARKED MY SPIDY SENSE!!!
So suss.
The father went on ahead - but was inseperatable with his father 🤷♀️
Drove 45 mins to get a tree 🤷♀️
Grandfather got angry at him then he went missing 🤷♀️
I cannot imagine a greater heartbreak than the disappearance of a child. Poor Derrick has been missing for 21 years and the lack of immediate response by authorities is troubling and upsetting. I feel so bad for his family and the terrible outcome that has befallen them since his disappearance. Given the clues, it seems apparent that Derrick made it to the road and was taken/abducted from that point. It seems as if they were dealt a terrible hand from the moment of his disappearance and it became worse as the critical moments passed on. My heart breaks for this family. No closure or answers.
I’ve watched enough true crime to know that a guilty family member would not participate in months & years of searching... much less drain their personal finances to do it. How can people be so cruel to accuse them of killing Derrick - adding more insult & injury to their immense pain & loss. My heart breaks for them.
You are 100% correct!
It frustrates me to no end when people blame the parents who are doing everything in their power to find their missing child. If they were guilty they would have let the whole thing drop.
This is why I feel the DeOrr Kuntz case has nothing to do with the parents, they are still actively looking for answers.
you never know some will do anything not to get caught
The grandfather should be investigated.
Questions to consider:
Q. How far was the nearest road from the last location he was seen?
Q. Is it feasible he could make it to the road given the harsh elements?
Q. Does the named suspect match the description as the ‘male seen struggling with a child’ alleged by the witness?
Q. Whilst it’s claimed the named suspect owed a vehicle believed to be the same model as that seen in the area by the witness, did he have the means and opportunity to be in that specific area at the time?
Q. Did police made sufficient enquiries with stores, diners, hotels, B&B’s and other landmarks across the state, in the event that if he had been abducted, his kidnapper went onto enter/ attend such locations with him (regardless how unlikely this may be).
P.S. Tragically, If the kidnapper saw/ was flagged down by the boy at the roadside and posed as a police officer/ Good Samaritan, the 8 year would have been freezing, disorientated and desperate and would have likely accepted a ride from the kidnapper (without a struggle).
The road was straight ahead. He wouldnt of been freezing yet. They would of found him if he was taken. Thats why its pretty obvious he didnt die in the snow. No trace was ever even found.
Q Why wasn't the blood found nearby identified?
Many people and children go missing in Oregon every year. We lived there for 8 years and there were constant stories of people "gone missing". The Pacific NW draws a great many "questionable" characters and oddballs. Many live in the woods and by their own ways. Very creepy and remote habitations can be encountered just on a simple day hike. Keep vigilant, always armed...
RU Kiddng it's the truth
Years ago, I read that the soil composition in some areas of the Pacific NW is such that a body will decompose so thoroughly as to never leave a trace.
So heartbreaking. I can’t imagine the misery of losing a loved one like this.
I have done EXTENSIVE research about Derrick. This is a very sad story. There is a man who is already in prison (for another crime, not connected to Derrick) that kidnapped and murdered Derrick. The authorities know who this man is but do nothing because he is already in prison and Derrick has never been found. There is SO much more to this story!!! This was a crime of opportunity, Derrick was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have been to the area where he went missing, Derrick is not on that mountain! :*(
But, what was Milligan doing on Westside Rd? He lived in the Salem area. Was he thinking on taking the southern road to Crater Lake in such heavy snow, and likely to get stuck? Doesn't make sense heading across 10 Mile Rd, then up the south rd to Crater Lake in such heavy snow. If he was heading home to Salem with a kidnapped kid, he'd have to cross the Cascades somehow.
A perplexing and very tragic case. Something feels off here...it seems there would have been tracks immediately after realizing he wasn't with dad. So many questions and possibilities. A random abduction in such a remote area seems very unlikely, especially on a snowy blustery day. Unless, of course, there was a killer stalking. Many prayers and peace to the family in pain.
Thank you for another stellar case. Looking forward to the next !
You have an excellent presentation style, seriously.
I'd love to hear your take on the case of "the body on the reservoir', it's a spine-chiller!
My ex husband started the search and rescue team in our area. I'll say one thing - they live for search and rescue. It's HIGHLY unlikely that they "ignored the request to search for the missing boy". I know dozens and dozens of firefighters, EMTs, cops, etc., none of whom would ignore a rescue request, especially one involving a small child. I'm wondering if a proper request was not received, which I've seen happen before.
Every single time a call came through, emergency personnel have acted immediately. Both of my sons are firefighters and they would have dropped everything to go look for Derrick. I also know people in the area as I used to live close by. I don't know one person who would prefer the party over looking for a lost boy. It's just so unfortunate that they didn't get there sooner.
My heart goes out to the family. I can only imagine the guilt the grandfather carries for allowing Derrick to run to his dad. What and absolute nightmare. Here they were doing something kind for a neighbor and their worst nightmare came true.
There couldn't have been many people on the road at that time under those conditions. If he was kidnapped, it would have been the most unfortunate and random timing. My heart breaks with the thought of what happened, whether kidnapping or succumbing to the elements. 💔💔💔
Poor kid. How sad. Thanks for the new video. I really love your channel as you cover less known and stories from Europe and places other than the US.
This might sound harsh but the father and grandfather failed Derrick. They should not have waited until almost night fall to cut down a tree and in a snow storm. They thought that 8 year-old Derrick was able to take care of himself and survive in such elements but he still is a child and needed to be watched closely. 😕
Any phrase that uses in the words” Delay because of a Christmas party” or any variation of that usually means that people were drunk and they had to sober up
When I was young we were camping in the woods. My friend and I wondered ahead... we found a wooden box... wr went to check it out and a man was in there. Thankfully my friends dad showed up just then. Scary to think about now that I am 40 looking back.
was the man dead??
Wtf dude..was he dead? Yikes
Hun you gotta come back, we have questions..
Okay, we need more on this story. Was the man dead or alive and do you know why he was there? Inquiring minds want to know. Quite an intriguing story, please don't leave us hanging.
This story of him vanishing in the woods following a trail between his grandpa and father doesn’t hold water.
If you made a horrible mistake and then needed someone’s help to cover up that mistake and provide a corroborating story who would you likely trust more than anyone?
This is tragic. Poor little Derek, poor family. It does seem likely that he was abducted given the way the small footprints seemed to be uncertain - was he being menaced? - and then vanished at the roadside. I hope his parents find out the truth and manage to go on.
Yes I pray they find peace and some measure of closure...🙏
@Fizza O They would have at least found his little hatchet if he did succumb to nature.
@@wildplumbeauty maybe not. It's a huge, densely wooded forest.
@@wildplumbeauty idk the way they kept searching for so long... I think they would of found some sign of him.. Torn clothing.. Something. And how his trail cuts off completely at the road. Its likely he was taken. And blood was found by the road too. Plus hes a small child, he couldnt of gone too far. If he had died there im sure someone would of seen a sign of him by now.
Thank you! Perfect time to upload 👏🏻
I am forever thankful that all my children have made it to adulthood. It doesn’t stop me from still worrying about each one, their spouses and children everyday. My heart breaks with each and every story like this.
This is every parent's nightmare - you lose our kid out of sight for just a little while, and never see him again.
The family really could have used a therapist, though, to focus on their surviving children. To be absorbed in loss and grief for so long... I don't know how one deals with losing a child but you really cannot blame the brother for not wanting to be constantly reminded, he did a very reasonable thing for the preservation of his own mental health. You really need to move on, somehow, and not keep the wound from healing. Poor family.
I live very close to where this happened and it absolutely sickens me that the search and rescue team favored a Christmas party over a missing child!! All those lost hours and lost evidence absolutely kills me and breaks my heart. I hope this is solved one day soon and the family can get some answers. Thank you for covering this case and an Oregon case!
I've followed this case for years. My question is: Why was this Christmas the first time the Engebretson family, purchased an artificial tree? It seems irrelevant but I think it's a red flag. So, the family decides to have an artificial tree this year for the first time, but trek out into the wilderness to cut down a real tree for a disabled neighbor?
If you were going to do that, you would have gotten your own real tree as usual, then get a tree for the neighbor. Or, give the neighbor an artificial tree, and have a real tree as usual for yourself.
I shouldn't say more but there are lots of questionable aspects to this story.
How does the pretext of getting a tree for the neighbors or themselves make a difference in analyzing their involvement in their son’s disappearance? Sounds utterly irrelevant
@@thebrocialist8300 everything is relevant when a child goes missing
Like what? What else is suspicious?
I can say from my own experience that even when you are in very familiar territory it is amazingly easy to get disoriented. I was walking my dog on a trail I knew really well and didn't realize that it was getting dark so quickly. All of a sudden I realized that I could not see the trail and did not know which way to go. And this was during the summer without the problem of snow. I do wonder why no trace of him was found over the years indicating that perhaps he was abducted. I can not begin to imagine how the family could ever get beyond this incident not knowing what happened to him.
How much distance was there between the grandfather and the father? If he wandered off the track surley he would have called out to his family members!!!! Was the predator lurking just there where they were walking????? Seems strange to me the kid didn't call out unless he was kidnapped which seems unlikely to me.
He must have beeb kidnapped or he would def call out for help just like the father and grandpa were doing too. Eventually some sign of him would surely be found. I dont doubt for a second that the poor kid was kidnapped.. The chances are very unlikely but it happens. Very unlucky and unfortunate
I love your channel and look forward to seeing your alert. Your dedication, delivery and execution is exceptional and for this, I thank you.
I doubt that an 8 year old would know how to survive in the mountains no matter how much he had been out in the wilds with his parents
This is quickly becoming one of my favorite channels. Keep up the good work
It's truly frightening how predators lurk in the most unlikely of places, just waiting for a moment of opportunity. I do believe he was taken when he neared the road.
I had never heard of this one before. Thank you for covering it!
So basically it's the Grandad's fault for letting the eight-year-old child follow his dad in inches of snow. I think it's extremely likely that when the footprints stopped appearing once Derek reached the road he was abducted
What a tragic event, I cannot even comprehend what the parents went through. Any family that searches and searches for their son, over years, costs them everything financial as well as mentally cannot be blamed in anyway. We as parents have all made silly mistakes with our children, luckily for us it never ended like this. Its called being a parent, no one is perfect, switching off for a second or not thinking clearly can be fatal, as we have just seen. My thoughts and prayers are with the family of this boy.
So sorry Derrick, I hope to god you were not harmed in anyway.
I can't imagine the pain and suffering of the family. The presentation of this story was as excellent as it was heartbreaking.
His poor parents and family. Every parents worse nightmare.
You pronounced all the Oregon place names - including "Oregon" - flawlessly. Nice work!
What is also troubling is why did the grandfather let him out of his sight?
Yep, if my mom or dad was to be responsible for my child, and let them out of their sight in the forest...and one of my kids went missing...I would never speak to that parent again.
@9:55 -
It is unknown if the blood is from animal or human 🤦♀️
I have an idea.. how about test it! 🙄🤷😣
16:04 I know that it is far from unheard of to have someone confess to a crime they didn’t commit but, in this case, I think that it’s absolutely possible that Milligan is responsible. Just because Milligan didn’t correctly lead them to the child’s body doesn’t mean that he doesn’t know exactly where it is. Additionally, I also think it’s possible that Milligan DID lead investigators to a burial site but that it just didn’t happen to be Derrick’s. LEO said that multiple animal bones were recovered which leads me to speculate that Milligan was harming, killing and burying animals before he went after larger prey in the form of innocent young boys. I’ve even had to consider that, since Milligan is desperate to avoid the death penalty, he might not be divulging where Derrick is purely out of his need for self preservation, knowing that should he tell LEO where to look that they’d be finding more than one body and that the deal he made was for the recovery of Derrick and Derrick alone. I’d definitely be interested in knowing more about who Milligan’s cell mate was - what was he incarcerated for, what was his track record, could he be considered reliable, what (if any) favors did he ask for after snitching on Milligan, etc. Basically, above all else, the cell mate would *HAVE to be* considered truthful and reliable as the one issue I have with this whole situation is whether Milligan said anything at all. Being a pedophile is usually a very solitary endeavor and, conventionally, it’s not something one would brag about. So, remaining tightlipped on one’s sick perversions would be especially pertinent for an individual who is already incarcerated, for obvious reasons. Why would Milligan confide in his cell mate? Once you figure that out then it’ll be easier to discern whether the cell mate is being totally forthcoming or not. But, at the end of the day, even if Milligan is not guilty for Derrick’s demise, he IS responsible for the other two crimes he was charged with and being in prison is exactly where he should be.
Vast wilderness, thick forest, deep snow on the ground, falling darkness, fresh snow about to fall - and someone thinks it is wise to let an 8 years old roam around unsupervised? Can someone really rely on a child's "survival skills" in such harsh environment? He couldn't even see the terrain from the snow. Any sane, serious, experienced and responsible adult would tell you that that was neither a place nor the time to let a child out of the sight.
The lack of care from the search and rescue team is utterly unbelievable. People trained and employed for that very reason ignoring the request to help a lost child is something I just cannot fathom
I'm really enjoying your channel and content. Unknown and lesser publicised cases are always great as they need to be made known. You remind me Alot of the female who does Heavy Casefiles. I enjoy both your videos aswell as Merc, Mr Davis and That Chapter. It's a good community of people on RUclips covering these topics and since Cayleigh Elise is no longer on RUclips it's nice to have some channels in her place, not to say she's better or you're better but for watching and appreciation of the work and info you provide. Mysterious WV is another grand channel that deals with local murders and disappearances in the general Virginia area mainly west but also sometimes parts of Ohio county and areas surrounding WV. Anyway I'm really thankful for your channel.
I'm appalled at the lack of compassion for this missing boy on part of the police and such on Christmas day. They needed to sit down and tuck in to a meal while a young boy is possibly freezing to death in the frozen woods or worse under the "care" of a vicious pedophile... 😓😢😡😠🤬
What a precious little muffin.
My heart is breaking for the family.
you do an excellent job with these cases.... I'm loving your channel.... thank you for your hard work and perfect narration
The parents put themselves in a bad situation from the start. Such a long drive to get a tree? Should have know there was a blizzard on the way too...this is very odd. The kid had to have been kidnapped if the area was so thoroughly searched. But kidnapped out in the snow when the parents were so close? Wth.
Watching these binge fashion.
You have a great voice for narration. Keep up the good work lass and stay safe.
my mother was this boys first grade teacher at Bonanza Elementary School the year he disappeared. It became a very difficult year for her and the remaining children. With the questions we have today, imagine trying to explain this to those kids!
Mom found Derrick to be a difficult student that required a lot of specialized attention. Not bad just time consuming. At the time, she felt the family to be a deeply problematic one.
"Something just doesn't feel right."
It all seems so very sad now. 🖖
Damn, i don't know how my father feels about him losing his brother, but it must feel horrible
Thank you for doing cases that most people have never heard instead of doing the popular ones that every other RUclipsr has a video of!!! ❤️❤️ thank you for being a voice for people who need to be heard ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️🌺🌷🌹😛🐸🙌🏽💋🙏🏿🌞🖼
So sad, what could have happened to the boy. Maybe their is something that they could have missed or didn’t search. I’m upset as well at the incompetence of the police preferring a party than looking for a missing child.
Search and rescue teams are often made up of volunteers and it clearly stated the police were the ones who initiated the search.
Ann Marie Sorondo I don’t think they preferred to party. I’m guessing the party was well in progress. Do you propose that rescue workers have no life at all and just wait for the next phone call.
Your narrating is really soothing and on point
This disappearance sounds so similar to the DeOrr Kunz case, each grandfather saying "I thought he was with you and visa versa." I think with DeOrr he fell into the creek, drowned and was carried downstream and Derrick too succumbed to the elements, you never stop missing or loving your lost child.
Justelle's Life Tbh ..old grandads are not so sharp on the ethics of minding kids;and possibly was so encroached on what they were doing were not mindful of the care that is needed looking after a 8 yrnold ...kids will wander off .
They need to be literally tied to you out there in that sort wilderness ..getting lost takes a few mins.
Don’t leave kids in the hands of very old folk.
I love your voice and the thoroughness of your content shows you care about these people's cases
This is one of the saddest cases i have heard of. Never knowing is the worst.
I am a huge fan of your channel and I just wanted to thank you for amazing videos. You are really doing a great job! I like your narration, sound of your voice and your accent. I also like how your videos are done. You provide us with a lot of information, but without unnecessary details. They are always interesting even the content is so dark and heartbreaking.
Great job! Greetings from Germany!