I love this video!!!! I myself went through a questioning period about my Catholic faith and came close to leaving the Church. But, I questioned and sought the truth. Historically, Biblically, Traditionally, and Logically the Catholic Church is truly the fullness and completeness of the Judaeo Tradition because Jesus of Nazareth is truly the Messiah.
God you don't have to explain yourself to me. I don't need miracles, visions, or supernatural wonders. I believe because I trust you. Others may call me simple minded but that's ok bc my simple mind allows me to remain close to you. Your love is enough for me. Amen.
When we have questions is not we questioning our faith beyond reasons its what we gain and receive in questioning because we just want what's the truth! If our questions answered its by then we have more stronger faith because we already knows the truth! We are all like St. Thomas full of questions! If we no questions arises we will never see the truth and see the good light through our Church which Jesus founded... (my point of view).... Thank you Fr. Barron!
BishopBarron. I’ve always struggled to find the words to express this to some very smart people who I think really want a union with the Lord. Thank you for expressing it so eleaueny.
Great talk, it definitely resonates, it resonates because of the actual experience of going to mass and being involved in the church, like from a hindsight viewpoint.
We're merely stating that if you want to find Jesus, turning to the Church is the best way to do so. That's why he established it. If you aren't at that point yet, then keep asking questions. There will always be "more questions". Its the result of studying the infinite, you never run out of things to ask. If you truly want to know Christ, do like you would with a science, do a genuine experiment. Enter in. You find God through encountering Him, not through rationalizing Him.
I want to thank you for your words. They have guided me in work- personal relationships- my Faith - family, and they have answered many questions I've had growing up Catholic
I enjoyed hearing this pastor talk about faith and reason. first thing He does is acknowledge his critics arguments, which was interesting. then He goes to the bible and uses other historical figures to show there is a level of reasoning done. but I started to become more interested when he describes how he views the relationship between faith and reason. He uses a phrase that stuck out to me, "the far side of reason." this man believes that true faith goes beyond reason. He gives an analogy about falling in love. you can't ever fall in love unless you open your heart to someone, no matter how much "research" and logic you apply. same thing, you can't reach God with strict logic you have to open your heart to know God. while his story about love is true, analogies are tricky. falling in love is the most irrational thing humans do. we don't choose it, we don't do calculations to fall in love, it just happens. And we make our poorest rational choices for the sake of love. so immediately I sense a poor choice for an analogy. And not to mention, falling in love requires another physical person, somebody you SEE. then he says you can't use hard logic in love, that's not how it works, he's right about that, we love who we love. but when a relationship no longer makes sense, or a spouse becomes abusive or neglects you, reason can pull you out if you let it. I was a Christian for years. When the relationship no longer made sense to me, I used reason to pull me out, and It was hard at first I loved my faith. I ended the relationship because I knew I was being lied to. I am now a happy atheist and I would never go back. religious faith will never supersede logic and sound reasoning. "the far side of logic" makes no sense the way he uses it. It's a way of saying his emotions trump logic. And they don't. the way you feel will never be a substitute for using your brain.
Thank you so much for this video Fr! I really enjoyed it. I'm taking catholic studies and theology at a catholic university, and our president (Monsignor Shea) assigned us this video to watch. I subscribed and watched many more! I love the way you speak so clearly about Catholicism. Thank you for being a great role model in the church
The Muslims and 10,000 planetary religions (yes... really!), plus all the other Christian sects, denominations, cults ad nauseam, think you are barking up the wrong tree! I do too, but they are too! Well, you've been sucked into the cult and are now part of the biggest con in human history. Congrations and welcome!
Very similar to your previous post "What Faith Is And What Faith Isn't", very insightful and helpful! Thank you Father Barron, may Jesus be praised, and may the Blessed Virgin Mary pray for us!
Para mí creo que ha sido la razón, la que me ha facilitado llegar a la fe. La belleza de la creación, me conmueve todos los días. Gracias padre por sus reflexiones, son exclarecedoras.
If there is reason then there is more reason for faith. Often reason reveals an extraordinary beauty. Father Barron talks about the man pursuing the woman with his reason, with Google and so on. But then, when he hears her speak all the reason in the world could not prepare him for her unique beauty. So with God. Read every text, listen to every ungodly thing. Then when you listen to God yourself your reason will become as simple as one grain of salt in the entire ocean of divine truth. Peace:)
I like how Fr. Barron never tries to complicate his speech with heavy linguistics like a lot of secular speakers do. Simple and clean and to the point.
I absolutely agree with you about being "concerned enough to ask questions" and I'm glad that you got your questions answered to your satisfaction. I also realize I'm looking at this from an outside perspective, but from that perspective, it seems the church is open to clarifying questions, like "why do we take this stand?" but not "should we take this stand?" which seems to me is ultimately a far more important question to ask. "Leave that question to us," seems to be the church's philosophy.
I doubt you'll get many atheists who'll admit they're seeking God, but there may be a few. For some like me, it's not a matter of want, it's about intellectual honesty. I have fond memories of the Catholic Church as a child and sometimes miss it, especially the fellowship, but can't in all honesty understand belief in a personal god. Even so, I've watched quite a few of your videos and am intrigued by your arguments. Nicely done.
Reason is a great tool as applied to matters of the physical world. In matters of the divine, it is more of a hindrance than an aid. Consequently, the degree to which one attempts to apply reason to matters of faith is directly related to the amount of conflict that matters of faith will generate in one's life. Conversely, the degree to which one focuses on experience in matters of faith is directly related to the peace one experiences with others, regardless of their faith.
Father Barron, today is the Sunday of the Paralytic in the Eastern Churches (Catholic and Orthodox), and the readings included the raising of Tabitha (Dorcas) by St. Peter. Providentially, I am reminded that our Lord's grace and power are at work still in His Church, and that St. Peter is our Lord's vicar par excellence. Please join me in praying for the Union of all.
God wants us to Love Him. Thou Shalt Love the Lord Thy God with all thy heart and soul. Therefore, to show our love we defend our faith in him. And I personally want to go straight to heaven, my reward for defending faith I pray is just that. How long do I have to hang around here with you and when are you coming back to the Catholic Chruch?
This video Really helped! I'm in a Christian worldview course and being inundated with too much breakdown of Faith, which leaves me in mental knots! This video cleared up much! Thanks Much!
"beguiled . . . surrender on the far side of reason," LOVED this Father Barron. I would like to thank you for all of the thought and time that you put into your videos. I'm always excited whenever I see a new video from you in my subscriptions list. Even Protestants (Episcopalians) like me enjoy the gems of wisdom that you share.
Thank you. To be honest, there's not much chance of me joining your church, but I appreciate being welcomed. My parents, who are also atheists, raised me to recognize that there is wisdom & beauty to be found in religious traditions despite our major differences. And they taught me to have respect for people who do have religious traditions and encouraged me to familiarize myself with the tenets of their faith. Emotions sometimes run high, but I hope that I always manage to show that respect.
Friend, Thomas Aquinas utterly accepts the claim that God cannot be offended in his own being. But we speak of God's taking offense (as the Bible does innumerable times) in order to signal his unhappiness at our lack of flourishing. Of course God welcomes back the repentant sinner. But he also, like a good teacher or coach or parent, wants to draw the sinner into right relationship. That's where discipline and punishment do indeed have a role to play in the spiritual order.
Indeed, in the beginning was the Word. To be Catholic and bash the Church is a grave sin. Words are everything! to us. Thou Shalt Love the Lord thy God with all thy Heart. Thou shalt not bear false witness and we are charged to defend the faith unto death. And for anyone else, bashing the Church is a hate crime.
You are correct, my friend :) Those who have peace in Christ do not attack others, but rather lead by example. Those who are using their church to bash others are neither secure in their faith nor are they at peace with Christ. Those who are at peace defend, they do not attack.
You are exposing the weakness of the way of Descartes: "I think, therefore I am." That way leads to solipsism and despair. I am glad that you seem to have seen beyond it.
There are three things I know with absolute certainty: 1. I exist 2. I am concious. 3. I don't know everything. I have faith that certain phenomena in my conciousness represent sense data that tell me about a world outside myself. I have faith that some beings that I perceive are concious like myself. I can't prove it, though. Without faith I am left with a Boltzmann brain, and that would be pretty lonely. Without faith, my universe would be very small.
Here is what Father Barron says about how to approach it. ""If your accepting, if your surrendering something now that is infrarational, forget it, that's childish. Faith isn't that though. Authentic Faith is suprarational. It's a surrender yes, but on the far side of reason. Reason having done all it's work, now there is a surrender to a reality which I can't even in principal control, but one that beguiles me from the far side of reason". I love his use of the word beguiles.
That ties in to what Fr. Barron was bringing up concerning faith being "suprarational". There are many things unexplained. According to Plantinga and others, you can be merit, justified, etc. Plantinga would say that this belief would be merited due to my attempt to explain events using rational, logical thinking, and secondarily attempting to explain it by faith. I would never assess a scientific fact the same way I would something faith based, wouldnt work. I try to reconcile Faith and Reason.
Your videos are very thorough and understandable. Thank you for taking your time to make this amazing content. I was sent here by my teacher, and this video helps me so much. Thank you again!
From Fr. Barron Commentary: "And again here is where I think of my friends on RUclips even those so called or self professed agnostics and atheists, who stubbornly come back to the web-site over and over again and ask religious questions and challenge what I am saying, you see they're, whether they are or what they are not, they are hungry and thirsty for God. (cont.)
I am not a Catholic but have a great respect for the church and I am a person of faith. I watch your videos because I find you to be a very thoughtful and intelligent advocate for the faith. I would like to take exception to one comment on this video however. You stated that the protestant church believes in faith and faith alone intimating that it is without reason or question. The statement of faith by faith alone simply means that good works will not get you into heaven, only faith will. Protestants have as much reason as Catholics.
With respect, I can only conclude that you must not have looked very far, re: suffering. This is a very common question, and the Church hasn't ignored it. There is a lot of material out there about it, because it involves our beliefs on the very nature of man and how he was created. For one, Fr. Barron talks about it right here in his video, "Why Is There So Much Disorder In The Universe?" /watch?v=CvqWTx8ykzg
"what is the logic to you and I existing?" I don't know. Throughout our history human beings have asked that very question. And if there's one thing we're uncomfortable with, it's uncertainty, so throughout human history we've tended to answer those questions for ourselves and acknowledged them as truth. We've created a wealth of religions, gods, creation stories and they've given us great comfort and I see no problem with that, but we have to acknowledge that we still don't know the answer.
I don't recall ever having heard an atheist say that. A few may, but I think most are quite willing to admit that there are some things we may never be able to learn about.
Perhaps so. I pray so. There are, however, plenty of stunningly creative people who were also atheistic. His salvation is not due to his art. It is due to Christ's great Mercy and Love.
Fr. Barron, I like your observations on athiests and agnostics. If they are so sure their isn't a God, why spend so much time arguing that point? Those with real faith will discuss the issue, but seldom feel the need to argue.
Perhaps because we find it problematic when people profess to know things they don't know and systematically attempt to indoctrinate others to that way of thinking. It ultimately is bad for society.
***** So you have the right to decide what is good for society?You are all loving , all good and care for everyone equally? You don't prejudge other? If you are, then we can talk.
I have the right to have an opinion on what is good for society, yes. And I am of the belief that blind religious faith is bad for society. If it is OK for people to indoctrinate other people into religious beliefs, why can't I indoctrinate people out of them? If religious belief was so vital to human well-being, why are there so many different ones?
***** Did you watch the video?! I'm not recommending "blind" anything. I'm arguing for a congruence between faith and reason. I'm saying that faith is not tantamount of blind acceptance of things without evidence.
There is no congruence between faith and reason. Faith is belief without evidence. It is entirely necessary in order to believe religious doctrine as truths but not much else. That's why Muslims hold to theirs just as strongly as you do to yours.
"If all you are doing is controlling the process you're not ever going to fall in love. You might be an acquaintance of that person, but you will never be an intimate of that person. Is it wrong to question? No. But is it wrong to be so aggressive in ones rationalism that one wants utterly to control the situation? Yes, that's a problem...because you will never get God that way. God cannot be gotten that way, with our grasping, self asserting minds...In that sense faith goes beyond reason."
Very nice video Father Barron. I have been watching your commentaries for some time now and it has helped me grow in my faith (I've only been a Christian for a year). Thank you and God Bless :^)
My compliments were genuine. You doubt I would speak my mind. I also told you I taught stage craft, that means I went to art school, majored in theater and your work is good! You have the creativity and the ever so important discipline that is necessary for an artist. Cold Play are a highly disciplined band and I LOVE! them. I left so many comments because I have never seen little movies like yours. Stick figures are so cool and I was just enchanted. I promise never to look at your art again.
I'm glad you believe in faith based on reason. Your faith should be reasonable. What if you have faith in something based on reason. i.e. you trust your friend because he has been honest with you in the past. Then because you have established a reasonable faith in him, when he comes and tells you something you can faith in what he is saying, thus allowing you to reason beyond what you could if you did not trust what he said.
Remember God as person. Indeed we are offensive to him. We don't keep his commandants. He gave us the world, life and each other and look at the way we treat each other and life. We take it for granted, as if God owes us something. We treat God the same way we treat a neighbor we don't like. It's all his fault. But what is your part. Do you love God. I don't think you know God yet. Do you Love him enough to sacrifice anything to him? Anything at all, a day, a prayer, a kindness to that neighbor?
Well, friend, I know at least one atheist that became a Christian. She was my Logic professor and head of the Philosophy department at the Catholic university I attended. She began her undergraduate career at the University of Minnesota as an atheist, but through her friendship with intelligent, erudite Catholics, she was led from atheism through theism to Catholicism. She is now a consecrated virgin (somewhat like a nun) for the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis.
The church itself is also comprised of member with differing beliefs across the board. Many things are absolute, such as the catechism, but there are TONS of things that the members disagree on. I have had 3 different pastors with 3 different beliefs on how sacraments should work (sacraments being the core of the practice of the faith itself). The ,"should we take this stand" question gets asked every single day all across the country by different bishops, priests, laiety, etc.
I'm an atheist. I came onto this thread because Fr. Barron presents a Catholic perspective in a very sincere, rational manner and seems like an all around nice guy. I've since been told by people on these threads that I'm incomplete, secretly long for God and shoud join the RCC, that it's open to questions. Although it seems the only question it's really open to is, "what time is mass?" I'm not trying to hijack anything buddy. Get your facts straight. By the way, good to know it's YOUR church.
And don't forget what the Christian philosopher Dallas Willard says: "If you're going to be a doubter, remember to also doubt your doubts as you doubt belief...you can be dumb as a cabbage and still ask 'why'"
...happiness and love are also irrational. I was arrogant when I was agnostic because I was self-centered. Faith forced me to change my outlook on humanity enough to allow me to be happier. My faith is logical, but not necessarily reasonable at face value. I have been evaluating the logic of this all for a long time. The logic isn't the difficult part, the reasoning is. Logic =/= Reasoning. Logic evaluates factuality, reasoning evaluates understanding. A subtle, but real difference.
See, who is really blessed? Those who don't have to control it with their rationalist minds, but who are willing to surrender on the far side of reason. And just a last thought about this. It is very important that Thomas didn't see the Lord when he was away from the twelve. Right? He is away from the twelve. He is away from the apostolic band. But when he comes back with them, that is when he sees the Lord. What's the lesson? The lesson is we get the Lord in the Church." Fr. Barron
By all means read! Carefully and thoughtfully with reflection and patience toward all that is unsettled in your heart. When something strikes you as a contradiction, and many things should, take them to your heart and ponder them. Don't seek the answer's now because you will not be able to live it, and the point is to live everything. Learn to love the questions, like locked rooms or books written in a very foreign tongue and perhaps some day you will live into the answer. Rainer Maria Rilke
You are correct. The Immaculate Conception of Mary refers to her own birth, free of sin. The proclaimed Roman Catholic dogma states "that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin." Thank you for the respect you showed to our beliefs. Hopefully you will join us soon ;)
I'm an atheist, so I probably shouldn't be the one answering, but here's my understanding. It's not just her virginity, Catholics call Mary "Immaculate" meaning that she was free from "original sin" from the moment of conception. Her Immaculate Conception and Virginity are so important to the church because she was the vessel through which they believe God came into the world through the person of Jesus Christ. Only someone free from sin could act as this conduit for the divine becoming human.
EVERYONE needs God, the whole idea is to realise it before it's too late! My question to atheists is - WHY? Why reject the ONLY light in anyone's life? EVERYTHING else passes, but not faith, hope and love. People, incl me, take God at times very much for granted, but we are lucky to have "the" God we do. Faithful, loving, patient - He doesn't have to be any of those things. The alternates to them are rather scary in fact. Instead of doubting God, say Thank You to God for a change!
Example: An architect comes to trust the builder he is working with because he has seen him do excellent work thus far. When the builder then comes the architect and says that there is an issue with their ability to build a section of his design, the architect can reason based off the faith he has in the builder. He doesn't need to go and try to construct it himself, get another estimate, or push own in spite of the builder's concern. Faith and reason work together.
It all boils down to the question of FREE WILL. I am 77 and have all good reasons in the world to become a "believer" in order to calm my mind. I have recently taken the trouble of reading both testaments in all their cruelty (old) and boringness (both) from A to Z. I have NEVER found in all of the church's teachings an explanation for the cruelty and injustice pervading GOD's world. S/HE must have created me with a critical mind (if S/HE exists). Being an atheist is not in my interest.
If the Lord can forgive then so must we. Especially mistakes made in youth and innocence. Youth is all about questioning, pushing the limits. And that is all he is doing. Pushing hard but artists have to do that, it goes with the territory. Remember Saint Augustine and so many of the Saints and great minds of the Church were young and wayward. Trust me and trust this one to the good Angles, he hears their voice and I hear it in him. Peace!
2. Applied in practice in THIS case: Put aside the fact that the issue is the existence or not of god. Imagine you are in a court deciding whether the weight of evidence is sufficient to convict. Look critically at the provenance of the data and whether bias may be present in the testimony. Are their multiple corroborating sources? Are they contemporary? If data from an experiment is there double-blind data? Then make your judgement.
The Espiritual made the material so first is God the start from all material so we can't change this order cause exist from start first God then all exist with out God we can't get nothing so we must be surrender to God to his one great big love, only we exist inside him. 😇😇😇
Seems to be what he is saying. He is saying that it is not Faith vs. Reason, but Faith with Reason, the two working together as a pathway to truth. As you said, its what you put your faith in, and why. That's the "reason" part. The "what" and "why" should be rooted in reason. Its what allows you to take the step of trust which is faith. To divorce Faith and Reason is really to skip from one type of irrationality to another. They are partners in knowledge of truth.
"The Catholic Tradition loves questions. I will give you one indication why. Mary hears the annunciation of the Angel, what does she say? “How is this possible, for I have had no relations with a man”. She is asking a very good honest question. Mary, also we hear, “pondered these things in her heart”. She took in the data of revelation but she didn't just dumbly take it in, she reflected on it. She asked questions about it. She pondered it in her heart. It makes her the model of all theology.
1. A thoughtful question, thanks Evidence itself is not subjective, it’s just data. Subjectivity creeps in when we interpret it and when we assess it. How strongly we believe a thing is based on the assessed quality of the data. Scientists take great care to remove “confirmation bias” etc from their assessments of data. Emotional attachment to a pre-conceived conclusion must be guarded against.
Reason can certainly assist in giving us coherence, and better distinguishing our catetories of thought. At the end of the day, though, it is really only a NET -- which enables us to catch the big fish, but not necessarily all of them (or even the most important ones). Furthermore, when one enters into CHrist, one enters into a marriage relationship -- not logical syllogism! Faith is really its own category; an act of the will. We put ON the wedding ring, not just contemplate or admire it.
I think choosing to reject dispair is a fundamental human act. I couldn't do it without faith. It is a second cousin to Pascal's wager. The universe is much more fun this way, and if I'm wrong, I don't see that I have anything to lose.
Just love the ending which completely undermines the "Catholic church welcomes questions, scepticism, & rational debate" shtick. Father Barron basicly says: "First accept our church dogma, then be as curious as you like within the boundaries of these dogma (i.e. don't contradict us)". Applause! Let's hope last impressions last... ;-)
I still ask questions. I sincerely think that if someone isn't concerned enough to ask questions when they don't understand why something is the way it is, then they are doing it wrong. I have gotten loads of questions answered, and lots of questions deferred. Luckily, I have met with priests and laity who BOTH have given me great answers. If I was actually brainwashed, I would imagine that I would have stopped asking questions and challenging things that I disagree with. Ignorance is not my aim
This is one of my all time favorite Bishop Barron videos. I like to show it to the confirmation students. Thank you Bishop!!
“Surrender, yes, but on the far side of reason”. Love this. Faith and reason always align…but where reason can’t go on, we have faith.
I love this video!!!! I myself went through a questioning period about my Catholic faith and came close to leaving the Church. But, I questioned and sought the truth. Historically, Biblically, Traditionally, and Logically the Catholic Church is truly the fullness and completeness of the Judaeo Tradition because Jesus of Nazareth is truly the Messiah.
Yes! Faith AND reason! Yes, both together!
God you don't have to explain yourself to me. I don't need miracles, visions, or supernatural wonders. I believe because I trust you. Others may call me simple minded but that's ok bc my simple mind allows me to remain close to you. Your love is enough for me. Amen.
Yeah... you got it. Simple minded.
When we have questions is not we questioning our faith beyond reasons its what we gain and receive in questioning because we just want what's the truth! If our questions answered its by then we have more stronger faith because we already knows the truth! We are all like St. Thomas full of questions! If we no questions arises we will never see the truth and see the good light through our Church which Jesus founded... (my point of view).... Thank you Fr. Barron!
BishopBarron. I’ve always struggled to find the words to express this to some very smart people who I think really want a union with the Lord. Thank you for expressing it so eleaueny.
Great talk, it definitely resonates, it resonates because of the actual experience of going to mass and being involved in the church, like from a hindsight viewpoint.
He's excellent.
We're merely stating that if you want to find Jesus, turning to the Church is the best way to do so. That's why he established it. If you aren't at that point yet, then keep asking questions. There will always be "more questions". Its the result of studying the infinite, you never run out of things to ask. If you truly want to know Christ, do like you would with a science, do a genuine experiment. Enter in. You find God through encountering Him, not through rationalizing Him.
I want to thank you for your words. They have guided me in work- personal relationships- my Faith - family, and they have answered many questions I've had growing up Catholic
I enjoyed hearing this pastor talk about faith and reason. first thing He does is acknowledge his critics arguments, which was interesting. then He goes to the bible and uses other historical figures to show there is a level of reasoning done. but I started to become more interested when he describes how he views the relationship between faith and reason. He uses a phrase that stuck out to me, "the far side of reason." this man believes that true faith goes beyond reason. He gives an analogy about falling in love. you can't ever fall in love unless you open your heart to someone, no matter how much "research" and logic you apply. same thing, you can't reach God with strict logic you have to open your heart to know God. while his story about love is true, analogies are tricky. falling in love is the most irrational thing humans do. we don't choose it, we don't do calculations to fall in love, it just happens. And we make our poorest rational choices for the sake of love. so immediately I sense a poor choice for an analogy. And not to mention, falling in love requires another physical person, somebody you SEE. then he says you can't use hard logic in love, that's not how it works, he's right about that, we love who we love. but when a relationship no longer makes sense, or a spouse becomes abusive or neglects you, reason can pull you out if you let it. I was a Christian for years. When the relationship no longer made sense to me, I used reason to pull me out, and It was hard at first I loved my faith. I ended the relationship because I knew I was being lied to. I am now a happy atheist and I would never go back. religious faith will never supersede logic and sound reasoning. "the far side of logic" makes no sense the way he uses it. It's a way of saying his emotions trump logic. And they don't. the way you feel will never be a substitute for using your brain.
No one falls in love; you choose to love another. Just as you choose to not love (fall out of love) with another.
Thank you so much for this video Fr! I really enjoyed it. I'm taking catholic studies and theology at a catholic university, and our president (Monsignor Shea) assigned us this video to watch. I subscribed and watched many more! I love the way you speak so clearly about Catholicism. Thank you for being a great role model in the church
God bless you! Your president is a good man.
Fr. Robert Barron
The Muslims and 10,000 planetary religions (yes... really!), plus all the other Christian sects, denominations, cults ad nauseam, think you are barking up the wrong tree!
I do too, but they are too!
Well, you've been sucked into the cult and are now part of the biggest con in human history. Congrations and welcome!
@@XRP747E Yes, and all of them are wrong.
Faitth and intellect
Very similar to your previous post "What Faith Is And What Faith Isn't", very insightful and helpful! Thank you Father Barron, may Jesus be praised, and may the Blessed Virgin Mary pray for us!
Para mí creo que ha sido la razón, la que me ha facilitado llegar a la fe. La belleza de la creación, me conmueve todos los días. Gracias padre por sus reflexiones, son exclarecedoras.
If there is reason then there is more reason for faith. Often reason reveals an extraordinary beauty. Father Barron talks about the man pursuing the woman with his reason, with Google and so on. But then, when he hears her speak all the reason in the world could not prepare him for her unique beauty. So with God. Read every text, listen to every ungodly thing. Then when you listen to God yourself your reason will become as simple as one grain of salt in the entire ocean of divine truth. Peace:)
I like how Fr. Barron never tries to complicate his speech with heavy linguistics like a lot of secular speakers do. Simple and clean and to the point.
I absolutely agree with you about being "concerned enough to ask questions" and I'm glad that you got your questions answered to your satisfaction. I also realize I'm looking at this from an outside perspective, but from that perspective, it seems the church is open to clarifying questions, like "why do we take this stand?" but not "should we take this stand?" which seems to me is ultimately a far more important question to ask. "Leave that question to us," seems to be the church's philosophy.
Awesome as always. Thank you, Fr Barron.
Faith and Reason are always together...
Seek the truth..
His art will lead him just fine!
God Bless Father Barron...
I doubt you'll get many atheists who'll admit they're seeking God, but there may be a few. For some like me, it's not a matter of want, it's about intellectual honesty. I have fond memories of the Catholic Church as a child and sometimes miss it, especially the fellowship, but can't in all honesty understand belief in a personal god. Even so, I've watched quite a few of your videos and am intrigued by your arguments. Nicely done.
Good luck on your search for truth! Never stop.
Reason is a great tool as applied to matters of the physical world. In matters of the divine, it is more of a hindrance than an aid. Consequently, the degree to which one attempts to apply reason to matters of faith is directly related to the amount of conflict that matters of faith will generate in one's life. Conversely, the degree to which one focuses on experience in matters of faith is directly related to the peace one experiences with others, regardless of their faith.
Father Barron, today is the Sunday of the Paralytic in the Eastern Churches (Catholic and Orthodox), and the readings included the raising of Tabitha (Dorcas) by St. Peter. Providentially, I am reminded that our Lord's grace and power are at work still in His Church, and that St. Peter is our Lord's vicar par excellence. Please join me in praying for the Union of all.
God wants us to Love Him. Thou Shalt Love the Lord Thy God with all thy heart and soul. Therefore, to show our love we defend our faith in him. And I personally want to go straight to heaven, my reward for defending faith I pray is just that. How long do I have to hang around here with you and when are you coming back to the Catholic Chruch?
This video Really helped! I'm in a Christian worldview course and being inundated with too much breakdown of Faith, which leaves me in mental knots! This video cleared up much! Thanks Much!
Fantastic Father, many people still think that Faith and Reason are somehow opposed which couldnt be further from the truth.
God Bless
Thanks much for this video.
Father, thank you so much!
"beguiled . . . surrender on the far side of reason," LOVED this Father Barron. I would like to thank you for all of the thought and time that you put into your videos. I'm always excited whenever I see a new video from you in my subscriptions list. Even Protestants (Episcopalians) like me enjoy the gems of wisdom that you share.
Thank you. To be honest, there's not much chance of me joining your church, but I appreciate being welcomed. My parents, who are also atheists, raised me to recognize that there is wisdom & beauty to be found in religious traditions despite our major differences. And they taught me to have respect for people who do have religious traditions and encouraged me to familiarize myself with the tenets of their faith. Emotions sometimes run high, but I hope that I always manage to show that respect.
Friend, Thomas Aquinas utterly accepts the claim that God cannot be offended in his own being. But we speak of God's taking offense (as the Bible does innumerable times) in order to signal his unhappiness at our lack of flourishing. Of course God welcomes back the repentant sinner. But he also, like a good teacher or coach or parent, wants to draw the sinner into right relationship. That's where discipline and punishment do indeed have a role to play in the spiritual order.
Ask me any question you want. Catholics love questions. It doesn't necessarily mean that we'll give you the answer you're looking for. But ask away!
Nice Father!
Indeed, in the beginning was the Word. To be Catholic and bash the Church is a grave sin. Words are everything! to us. Thou Shalt Love the Lord thy God with all thy Heart. Thou shalt not bear false witness and we are charged to defend the faith unto death. And for anyone else, bashing the Church is a hate crime.
You are correct, my friend :) Those who have peace in Christ do not attack others, but rather lead by example. Those who are using their church to bash others are neither secure in their faith nor are they at peace with Christ. Those who are at peace defend, they do not attack.
You are exposing the weakness of the way of Descartes: "I think, therefore I am." That way leads to solipsism and despair. I am glad that you seem to have seen beyond it.
I know it is hard, but I know the sound of my masters voice. Have mercy on them!
Good man bishop barron
There are three things I know with absolute certainty:
1. I exist
2. I am concious.
3. I don't know everything.
I have faith that certain phenomena in my conciousness represent sense data that tell me about a world outside myself. I have faith that some beings that I perceive are concious like myself. I can't prove it, though. Without faith I am left with a Boltzmann brain, and that would be pretty lonely. Without faith, my universe would be very small.
Here is what Father Barron says about how to approach it. ""If your accepting, if your surrendering something now that is infrarational, forget it, that's childish. Faith isn't that though. Authentic Faith is suprarational. It's a surrender yes, but on the far side of reason. Reason having done all it's work, now there is a surrender to a reality which I can't even in principal control, but one that beguiles me from the far side of reason". I love his use of the word beguiles.
That ties in to what Fr. Barron was bringing up concerning faith being "suprarational". There are many things unexplained. According to Plantinga and others, you can be merit, justified, etc. Plantinga would say that this belief would be merited due to my attempt to explain events using rational, logical thinking, and secondarily attempting to explain it by faith. I would never assess a scientific fact the same way I would something faith based, wouldnt work. I try to reconcile Faith and Reason.
Your videos are very thorough and understandable. Thank you for taking your time to make this amazing content. I was sent here by my teacher, and this video helps me so much. Thank you again!
From Fr. Barron Commentary: "And again here is where I think of my friends on RUclips even those so called or self professed agnostics and atheists, who stubbornly come back to the web-site over and over again and ask religious questions and challenge what I am saying, you see they're, whether they are or what they are not, they are hungry and thirsty for God. (cont.)
I really enjoyed this video; thank you, Father!
I am not a Catholic but have a great respect for the church and I am a person of faith. I watch your videos because I find you to be a very thoughtful and intelligent advocate for the faith. I would like to take exception to one comment on this video however. You stated that the protestant church believes in faith and faith alone intimating that it is without reason or question. The statement of faith by faith alone simply means that good works will not get you into heaven, only faith will. Protestants have as much reason as Catholics.
Thank You sir for explaning faith and reason
Insightful video Fr Barron
With respect, I can only conclude that you must not have looked very far, re: suffering. This is a very common question, and the Church hasn't ignored it. There is a lot of material out there about it, because it involves our beliefs on the very nature of man and how he was created. For one, Fr. Barron talks about it right here in his video, "Why Is There So Much Disorder In The Universe?"
/watch?v=CvqWTx8ykzg
Truly well said.
I love the Catholic Church so much.
The very brief comment, almost in passing, that really struck me is "Mary is the model of all theology." - Excellent.
"what is the logic to you and I existing?"
I don't know. Throughout our history human beings have asked that very question. And if there's one thing we're uncomfortable with, it's uncertainty, so throughout human history we've tended to answer those questions for ourselves and acknowledged them as truth. We've created a wealth of religions, gods, creation stories and they've given us great comfort and I see no problem with that, but we have to acknowledge that we still don't know the answer.
Good Words. Thank You.
Jaki Jestes cudny Ojcze !!! Jakie trafne są Twoje słowa!!!
💞🙏💞
I don't recall ever having heard an atheist say that. A few may, but I think most are quite willing to admit that there are some things we may never be able to learn about.
Perhaps so. I pray so. There are, however, plenty of stunningly creative people who were also atheistic. His salvation is not due to his art. It is due to Christ's great Mercy and Love.
Thank you for this wonderful piece of information.
Fr. Barron, I like your observations on athiests and agnostics. If they are so sure their isn't a God, why spend so much time arguing that point? Those with real faith will discuss the issue, but seldom feel the need to argue.
Perhaps because we find it problematic when people profess to know things they don't know and systematically attempt to indoctrinate others to that way of thinking. It ultimately is bad for society.
***** So you have the right to decide what is good for society?You are all loving , all good and care for everyone equally? You don't prejudge other? If you are, then we can talk.
I have the right to have an opinion on what is good for society, yes. And I am of the belief that blind religious faith is bad for society. If it is OK for people to indoctrinate other people into religious beliefs, why can't I indoctrinate people out of them? If religious belief was so vital to human well-being, why are there so many different ones?
***** Did you watch the video?! I'm not recommending "blind" anything. I'm arguing for a congruence between faith and reason. I'm saying that faith is not tantamount of blind acceptance of things without evidence.
There is no congruence between faith and reason. Faith is belief without evidence. It is entirely necessary in order to believe religious doctrine as truths but not much else. That's why Muslims hold to theirs just as strongly as you do to yours.
"If all you are doing is controlling the process you're not ever going to fall in love. You might be an acquaintance of that person, but you will never be an intimate of that person. Is it wrong to question? No. But is it wrong to be so aggressive in ones rationalism that one wants utterly to control the situation? Yes, that's a problem...because you will never get God that way. God cannot be gotten that way, with our grasping, self asserting minds...In that sense faith goes beyond reason."
Very nice video Father Barron. I have been watching your commentaries for some time now and it has helped me grow in my faith (I've only been a Christian for a year). Thank you and God Bless :^)
My compliments were genuine. You doubt I would speak my mind. I also told you I taught stage craft, that means I went to art school, majored in theater and your work is good! You have the creativity and the ever so important discipline that is necessary for an artist. Cold Play are a highly disciplined band and I LOVE! them. I left so many comments because I have never seen little movies like yours. Stick figures are so cool and I was just enchanted. I promise never to look at your art again.
I'm glad you believe in faith based on reason. Your faith should be reasonable. What if you have faith in something based on reason. i.e. you trust your friend because he has been honest with you in the past. Then because you have established a reasonable faith in him, when he comes and tells you something you can faith in what he is saying, thus allowing you to reason beyond what you could if you did not trust what he said.
Remember God as person. Indeed we are offensive to him. We don't keep his commandants. He gave us the world, life and each other and look at the way we treat each other and life. We take it for granted, as if God owes us something. We treat God the same way we treat a neighbor we don't like. It's all his fault. But what is your part. Do you love God. I don't think you know God yet. Do you Love him enough to sacrifice anything to him? Anything at all, a day, a prayer, a kindness to that neighbor?
Excellent observations. Thank you.
That is an excellent observation. Definitely gonna use it the next time this sort of conversation comes up.
It really helped. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
Well, friend, I know at least one atheist that became a Christian. She was my Logic professor and head of the Philosophy department at the Catholic university I attended. She began her undergraduate career at the University of Minnesota as an atheist, but through her friendship with intelligent, erudite Catholics, she was led from atheism through theism to Catholicism. She is now a consecrated virgin (somewhat like a nun) for the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis.
The church itself is also comprised of member with differing beliefs across the board. Many things are absolute, such as the catechism, but there are TONS of things that the members disagree on. I have had 3 different pastors with 3 different beliefs on how sacraments should work (sacraments being the core of the practice of the faith itself). The ,"should we take this stand" question gets asked every single day all across the country by different bishops, priests, laiety, etc.
I'm an atheist. I came onto this thread because Fr. Barron presents a Catholic perspective in a very sincere, rational manner and seems like an all around nice guy.
I've since been told by people on these threads that I'm incomplete, secretly long for God and shoud join the RCC, that it's open to questions. Although it seems the only question it's really open to is, "what time is mass?" I'm not trying to hijack anything buddy. Get your facts straight. By the way, good to know it's YOUR church.
It's the weekend. I'll write back on Monday. Peace!
And don't forget what the Christian philosopher Dallas Willard says: "If you're going to be a doubter, remember to also doubt your doubts as you doubt belief...you can be dumb as a cabbage and still ask 'why'"
That shouldn't be too difficult. Peace!
Søren Kierkegaard's "Fear and Trembling" is an in depth look on how humans handle faith.
...happiness and love are also irrational. I was arrogant when I was agnostic because I was self-centered. Faith forced me to change my outlook on humanity enough to allow me to be happier. My faith is logical, but not necessarily reasonable at face value. I have been evaluating the logic of this all for a long time. The logic isn't the difficult part, the reasoning is. Logic =/= Reasoning. Logic evaluates factuality, reasoning evaluates understanding. A subtle, but real difference.
I post your videos on my fb feed thank you so much padre
See, who is really blessed? Those who don't have to control it with their rationalist minds, but who are willing to surrender on the far side of reason.
And just a last thought about this. It is very important that Thomas didn't see the Lord when he was away from the twelve. Right? He is away from the twelve. He is away from the apostolic band. But when he comes back with them, that is when he sees the Lord. What's the lesson? The lesson is we get the Lord in the Church." Fr. Barron
By all means read! Carefully and thoughtfully with reflection and patience toward all that is unsettled in your heart. When something strikes you as a contradiction, and many things should, take them to your heart and ponder them. Don't seek the answer's now because you will not be able to live it, and the point is to live everything. Learn to love the questions, like locked rooms or books written in a very foreign tongue and perhaps some day you will live into the answer. Rainer Maria Rilke
Father Barron for pope!!!!!
You are correct. The Immaculate Conception of Mary refers to her own birth, free of sin. The proclaimed Roman Catholic dogma states "that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin."
Thank you for the respect you showed to our beliefs. Hopefully you will join us soon ;)
I'm an atheist, so I probably shouldn't be the one answering, but here's my understanding. It's not just her virginity, Catholics call Mary "Immaculate" meaning that she was free from "original sin" from the moment of conception. Her Immaculate Conception and Virginity are so important to the church because she was the vessel through which they believe God came into the world through the person of Jesus Christ. Only someone free from sin could act as this conduit for the divine becoming human.
EVERYONE needs God, the whole idea is to realise it before it's too late! My question to atheists is - WHY? Why reject the ONLY light in anyone's life? EVERYTHING else passes, but not faith, hope and love. People, incl me, take God at times very much for granted, but we are lucky to have "the" God we do. Faithful, loving, patient - He doesn't have to be any of those things. The alternates to them are rather scary in fact. Instead of doubting God, say Thank You to God for a change!
Example: An architect comes to trust the builder he is working with because he has seen him do excellent work thus far. When the builder then comes the architect and says that there is an issue with their ability to build a section of his design, the architect can reason based off the faith he has in the builder. He doesn't need to go and try to construct it himself, get another estimate, or push own in spite of the builder's concern. Faith and reason work together.
It all boils down to the question of FREE WILL. I am 77 and have all good reasons in the world to become a "believer" in order to calm my mind. I have recently taken the trouble of reading both testaments in all their cruelty (old) and boringness (both) from A to Z. I have NEVER found in all of the church's teachings an explanation for the cruelty and injustice pervading GOD's world. S/HE must have created me with a critical mind (if S/HE exists). Being an atheist is not in my interest.
If the Lord can forgive then so must we. Especially mistakes made in youth and innocence. Youth is all about questioning, pushing the limits. And that is all he is doing. Pushing hard but artists have to do that, it goes with the territory. Remember Saint Augustine and so many of the Saints and great minds of the Church were young and wayward. Trust me and trust this one to the good Angles, he hears their voice and I hear it in him. Peace!
That which is real, but unmasterable by reason.
Awesome stuff. I wish life wasn't such a mystery all the time! But then again...it's kind of fun
The last acceptable prejudice; the last "it's cool to hate....".
Deeply unintelligent....I like it :)
2. Applied in practice in THIS case:
Put aside the fact that the issue is the existence or not of god.
Imagine you are in a court deciding whether the weight of evidence is sufficient to convict. Look critically at the provenance of the data and whether bias may be present in the testimony. Are their multiple corroborating sources? Are they contemporary? If data from an experiment is there double-blind data? Then make your judgement.
The Espiritual made the material so first is God the start from all material so we can't change this order cause exist from start first God then all exist with out God we can't get nothing so we must be surrender to God to his one great big love, only we exist inside him. 😇😇😇
Seems to be what he is saying. He is saying that it is not Faith vs. Reason, but Faith with Reason, the two working together as a pathway to truth. As you said, its what you put your faith in, and why. That's the "reason" part. The "what" and "why" should be rooted in reason. Its what allows you to take the step of trust which is faith. To divorce Faith and Reason is really to skip from one type of irrationality to another. They are partners in knowledge of truth.
"The Catholic Tradition loves questions. I will give you one indication why. Mary hears the annunciation of the Angel, what does she say? “How is this possible, for I have had no relations with a man”. She is asking a very good honest question. Mary, also we hear, “pondered these things in her heart”. She took in the data of revelation but she didn't just dumbly take it in, she reflected on it. She asked questions about it. She pondered it in her heart. It makes her the model of all theology.
1. A thoughtful question, thanks
Evidence itself is not subjective, it’s just data. Subjectivity creeps in when we interpret it and when we assess it. How strongly we believe a thing is based on the assessed quality of the data. Scientists take great care to remove “confirmation bias” etc from their assessments of data. Emotional attachment to a pre-conceived conclusion must be guarded against.
Reason can certainly assist in giving us coherence, and better distinguishing our catetories of thought. At the end of the day, though, it is really only a NET -- which enables us to catch the big fish, but not necessarily all of them (or even the most important ones). Furthermore, when one enters into CHrist, one enters into a marriage relationship -- not logical syllogism! Faith is really its own category; an act of the will. We put ON the wedding ring, not just contemplate or admire it.
I think choosing to reject dispair is a fundamental human act. I couldn't do it without faith. It is a second cousin to Pascal's wager. The universe is much more fun this way, and if I'm wrong, I don't see that I have anything to lose.
very good job! nice!
Father Barron slams a home run again!!!
Just love the ending which completely undermines the "Catholic church welcomes questions, scepticism, & rational debate" shtick. Father Barron basicly says: "First accept our church dogma, then be as curious as you like within the boundaries of these dogma (i.e. don't contradict us)". Applause! Let's hope last impressions last... ;-)
God can't create evil - because He cannot create, what He does not know!
I still ask questions. I sincerely think that if someone isn't concerned enough to ask questions when they don't understand why something is the way it is, then they are doing it wrong. I have gotten loads of questions answered, and lots of questions deferred. Luckily, I have met with priests and laity who BOTH have given me great answers. If I was actually brainwashed, I would imagine that I would have stopped asking questions and challenging things that I disagree with. Ignorance is not my aim