Leffens puff complaints were stupid and history has made him look even dumber. Mango fucked around with puff but I think time has basically proven it's hbox, not the character
@@flowchartk3nto be fair though Comparing HC to puff like the original commentor did is just kinda stupid tbh Like do you even play the game He’s probably thinking about season 1 HC
@@Wiziliz idk how much Strive exp you have But HC isnt really a good comparison imo Isnt puff considered a boring character towatch bcs she is stalling the timer a lot Or smth HC doesnt do any of that so idk what the similarities between them are
Is leffins skill respectable? Yes, he's very good there's no denying that. But winning Evo doesn't mean people have to like you as a person now. Which is why the reaction was kind of just mid when Leffin won, he's made himself an enemy, not even a fun heel kind of way like PR balrog. He's toxic, starts drama, his community tries to start drama with other people and he hasn't really grown as an individual over the years. He could choose to be a positive influance or even neutral but he doesn't and he's the only one at fault for that. Imagine the kind of person you gotta be for the crowd reaction at evo to be mild.
So like, what drama has he started and what has he said or done that makes him "toxic"? All I am aware is he has something to do with the groomer known as Zero and apparently because Zero is a groomer had made Zero almost commit die on himself?
@@DANCERcow I am not the person to answer this, but Leffen has absolutely started random drama and people hate him for mostly justifiable reason. In most cases he is at best a salty argumentative asshole. At worst, he has bullied people near to the point of self harm and perpetuated false narratives without knowing the truth. For an example, he piled onto a blatantly false story about M2K, which forced him to reveal very personal and embarrassing information in order to clear his name. It seems clear to me that Leffen is not a great person. He lies somewhere in between toxic FGC personality and genuinely terrible person.
With the Leffen situation I was very mad when watching, NOT because he is carried by HC, I said "He´s amazing on HC, it´s insane how good he plays." to my friend but because of the matches that could´ve been if HC wasn´t a thing. The character forces certain characters out of tournaments when we are at a point where we saw almost the whole cast getting pretty good representation in comparison to last year's tournaments. I also don´t like Leffen but that is beside the point I was just sad that I have to watch "boring matches" as no matter how good your execution is, HC tends to be a lame viewer experience caused by his Moveset.
About being carried by HC: I think it goes beyond just the good character. Like, Ken is top tier, but he still allow an interaction between the two characters in the match. With HC, and I believe Asuka later, they reward you too much for learning them. Are they the hardest characters to learn? Yes. But once you master them, you don't have to play the game anymore, your opponent won't interact unless you make a mistake, that's where the being carried enter. You learn the character, but you are carried by a rewarding game plan that let you avoid playing the interaction game. They don't need to read your moves, don't need to understand how you play or react to wath you do, they play their own game.
I feel like it is a synergy of a toxic character people hate (plus on freaking whiff) and person people hate (many other people explained already why). I will not deny his skill, but it is also silly to deny that HCs strength did not contribute to his success. Makes me excited for system updates in season 3 though and how much that could affect HC with everything changing though. If Leffen starts to fall off ater these we will be able to definitely answer whether he was "really carried" though.
Leffen will always be 'carried' by his character though. Because he will always play whoever he thinks the best in the game is, period. Season one he played chipp because in his own tier list he put chipp as the best in the game. Once chipp was nerfed in season two, he dropped him immediately. Season three if the nerfs mean HC isn't the best in the game? Expect leffen to switch to johnny or leo or whoever the best in the game is once the dust settles.
If he spent so many years shitting so hard on some smash players for having a "boring playstyle" it's only fair that he gets backlash when he ends up abusing an outlier that makes the game extremly boring for everyone else. So no it's not just a matter of a pro using the best character, it's about a guy trying to pretend you have integrity if you play certain characters and personally shaming those who don't , only to adopt the most shallow gameplan if it works for him.
I think there is an issue with how you compared the number of tournament wins per SF6 character. The one Ken tournament win, evo, matters a lot more than all those Cammy or Guile wins. That evo tournament had the best player from all over the world, but those Cammy and Guile wins were more local tournaments with only Americans, and often not even all the top American attend them. For instance, of course Cammy is going to have that many American tournament wins, the best American player, Punk, happens to play her.
That's reasonable. I think my point still stands, the meta is in a spot where although there is a clear top tier it has 6-7 characters capable of winning tournaments and that is pretty good balance for vanilla games
@@flowchartk3n He’s the only Pro in GENERAL that has that level of success with her. I’d argue that he’s the reason people put Cammy S Tier. I personally don’t thing she’s S tier. She takes an almost god like level of patience and footsie control just to be able to be played as well as Punk plays her and he still struggles against the actual top tiers like Ken and Luke. Not to mention the tricky Blanka that Mena is able to pull out
@@flowchartk3n”Possibly terrible person” he made/spread fake SA accusations against Mewtwo king that he randomly came on a woman, so he had to make it public, his botched circumcision
I think the real issue is that the overall FGC is much less centralized due to there being more games than ever to play, which Ironically leads to said games having more centralized metas. Street Fighter as a brand used to have enough gravity to pull in players from other games. A good example of this would be Tokido. Before SF4 reached it's peak it was common to see him playing in top 8's for KOF or Blazblue. Despite this, you'd be hard pressed to find someone that doesn't think of him as a Street Fighter player. Nowadays you're not doomed to obscurity if you don't play Street Fighter, so the best of the best players can choose a game that fits their style rather than using unorthodox strats in a game that doesn't. So you end up with a lot of players with similar preferences at top.
@@flowchartk3n My point is moreso that the talent pool is spread out. Back in the 2000's players from all sorts of communities saw Street Fighter as the best option and chose to focus on it. This led to diverse strategies and character choice at a high level, as players used to different games naturally had very different styles. But today, these players don't have as much incentive to stray from their main games. Arslan Ash and Xiaohai both could've done well in SF6 if they really wanted to, but they both chose to stick to (and win) their main games. Basically I'm saying when birds of a feather flock together, you can't expect as much variety.
People can now just play the games that they care about which is a good thing. I think the "everyone at the top plays the same" issue is due more to how easy it is to access information now. People played 3s for years without using aegis reflector on urien. Today that would be week 1 tech and you'd see it in silver rank.
That's more a problem with the games imo. SF6 have some wildly different ways that people play it, even with kens players (its more nuanced stuff admittedly and its still an early game). 3S is a great example though with the Aegis stuff. @@janivirtanen5722
Just because Leffen is good at pushing buttons doesn't necessarily translate to him being a good person. He is the common denominator in many dramas in FGC and probably half of Smash drama originates from him.
@@flowchartk3n there's an excellent video by thefranChise that goes into detail about some of the horrible things Leffen has done ruclips.net/video/xU6HkfjkmzI/видео.html
This type of complaining or heckling happens in every sport so im not surprised. Like for example in MMA ppl would say "Oh of course he had to lay on him to win" or "All he did was spam leg kicks". Sometimes way worse things are said. Its gonna happen as this becomes more of a sport. As long as its nothing crazy like I saw a good amount of jp folks on twitter calling Punk the n word and crackman 😅.
Just because leffen is good at HC does not mean he is good at guilty gear. You can give him props for being a good competeitor but with a character like HC that has such fundamentally skewd risk reward and being able to put all the work onto the opponent to have to stop you from doing strong character stuff, i think its fair to call that out. Its more then HC is strong. TLDR Give him credit for winning as a competitor, not as a better player
@@flowchartk3n really? I dont think anything i said was all that removed from what your point was. I just think that there is a big difference in the way people should assess skill relative to winning methods Also using sf in a comparison of top tiers to an anime game is goofy ngl
Yeah, yeah, whatever. Still shoutouts to Umisho with her swap to Sol. She's the only reason we didn't see two HCs in Grand Finals and the only reason Leffen won
Leffen lost to HC then swapped to HC. Is leffen a good player? Yes. Did he put in the work? Yes. Does HC regularly break the rules? Yes. Is HC disproportionately rewarded for his technical to an obscene degree? Yes. Does he have to interact with his opponent? Not really And this is why no one cheers for HC. Even Nagoriyuki is less hated than HC because at least Nago is at risk and has to take risks. Was he carried? Whats your definition? Did playing HC dramatically raise his chances to win? Definitely.
If I was there live, I probably wouldn't clap for Leffen when he won, but I wouldn't boo him either. Because unlike Leffen, I respect people and things that aren't Leffen
Honestly, watching evo was so exciting for the games I did watch because of the variety. Like I got to see modern chun in top 6, kbr with his haggar team come back against zero may cry, punk's cammy doing better against blanka, and bob in tekken do well. Like I get where people are coming from but people complaining about someone else's achievement seems kinda weird to me.
I have watched like 7 or 8 EVOs now and this one was by far the most exciting. The urge to immediately go and shit on someone right after they win something is so stupid to me, I have a very hard time understanding where someone is coming from who tweets some out of pocket shit minutes after the game ends
I mean, this still doesn't change the fact HC carried him, I respect the skill, but the playstyle has to be something commendable for people to respect the player. If not, then I honestly can't respect them as an FG player at all.
I’d agree except for the fact HC has been to majors and finals over and over again leffen or not. I don’t think people doubt leffen is a good player, only that in fact he’s playing a character that largely negates a lot of matchups vs other characters after you pass the needed skill floor. More of a yell at arcsys imo to make the character more interesting in areas and subtract others like reload. But we’ll see how the new patch fairs w/wild assault & blue burst
I love when people call a meta stale when it’s only been like that for a couple of months(sf6), or at worst a year in GGStrive’s case. MVC3 has been out for like 12-13 years and the last update it got was a year after it came out. As for the player hate, I think Leffen is a good player, I do not like him because he’s a royal d-bag. I also am not a fan of Sonicfox, because they’re just annoying to me. But they are also a good player. Honestly, we just need to take a firm stance and eject people who are overly negative and hateful. Complaining is fine, but saying people are carried by their characters and dooming about game balance constantly gets no one anywhere. Anyways, that’s my rant. Thanks for listening. Also Leffen deserves to be hated.
Im going to be honest, the Strive EVO was miserable. It was all top tier characters and everyone was 3-0ing each other. Not a single reset. And it doesn't help that Leffen after winning had to make a tweet about it instead of celebrating his win. Goes to show what kind of person he is. Thank god for the SF6 finals or else this would've been a pretty bad EVO.
wym make a tweet about it instead of celebrating his win? He’s just addicted to that social media platform like most people these days are to one or another, doesn’t stop someone from then celebrating I’m not trying to defend Leffen but it’s like you’re already trying to make assumptions and frame his actions in the worst light
SF6 had a pretty incredible finals, but idk what you mean by make a tweet instead of celebrating. I think he just basically said fuck you to people after winning which is a very leffen way to celebrate
@@Amaling he had to make a tweet about himself winning and being the best player of all time. Then made a tweet towards Mango to flex on him. Ego problem.
@@flowchartk3n Every EVO champion either joins the crowd, breaks down crying or are on their knees. They're celebrating in the moment. Leffen just stands there and makes a tweet about his win. It's just very anticlimactic. You'd think he'd be more happy considering how much he wanted to win an Evo.
Well I do say he's a bit carried by chaos being high tier I'm not above admiting that he's a great player all players of high tier characters are a bit carried but still the need the skill to win with them in events
The character is boring That’s why I hate the character I don’t hate leffen for picking the character I hate him for being an ass that whines like a baby when he doesn’t get his way, before being an absolute hypocrite Example: laser stalling with fox while complaining about puff
Im trying to understand why we needed a video explanation to determine that a smash player *(smash is literally about zoning and spamming)* is carried by a spammy ass zoning characters
I don't play strive, but from the time I saw happy chaos and how people were with him. That character is cheap and has good carrying capacity. Question: Why didn't he do it with Chip Zan?
to be fair, no one has done it with Chip. Before evo came back he switched to Zato and got 3rd, and Bean has been the only Chip I have seen with much success
@@Anthem34 totally forgot about that - you're right he won the evo online year as well when he was still on chip. So technically his results are 1st/3rd/1st for every evo strive has existed
Honestly I feel like saying someone is carried by X character on its own is fine. I think that after a certain point though there are additives in everyone's message to dampen the perspective on certain players as people which I feel is ONLY warranted for Leffen out of all mentioned in this video. It's a bad sign that seemingly no matter what community he goes to there is some problem that arises, or there are problems that had persisted for years before people stopped blatantly cheering it on. I'm obviously not the most studied when it comes to EVERY controversy he's had in the fighting game community, but when there are top figureheads like snake eyes who detest him, it goes further than just downplaying a player. Even shinkensou, who isn't as well known as some of the people making these tweets, had an issue with Leffen in 2021 over Strive. Now I'd like to give benefit of the doubt to everyone but if Leffen's behavior overall has stemmed from events prior to his ban in 2013 in Melee (with evidence.zip) and has continued throughout the years, I struggle to think that these comments on him being carried themselves, and anything mentioned after that, are just bad spectators.
Gotta be honest, Strive competition is just ass :D Thats the only reason Leffen could win Evo in a non smash game. There is a reason Leffen dropped SF6 and DBFZ, he knows he cant hang and everyone in the fgc knows it.
Could not disagree more. I think it's nearly impossible to be evo winning level in multiple games at the same time and leffen made a smart choice as a competition to stick to one. Maybe he will never be good at SF, I cannot tell the future. But I can tell you when he started playing strive people said the exact same shit about how he'd never be good and he's now got one 3rd and one 1st. Dude is just unreal talented and hard working. I wouldn't bet against him if he went all in on SF
You clealry dont know what you are talking about. Trying to frame Leffen not being able to compete in certain games due to his lack of skill as some kind of smart move seems a bit dishonest to say the least. Real fg players like J Wong, Tokido, Daigo, Sanford Kelly, John Choi, Alex Valle, Sonic Fox, Snake Eyes, Viscant, Chris G, F Champ, Infiltration and others are all able to compete in different games at the same EVO, winning or placing top 3 in all kinds of different games, knowing the matchups, the frame data, the combos and all of that jazz, how come Leffen cant do that?! Because he isnt on the same level, he just isnt. "leffen made a smart choice as a competition to stick to one" Its not a choice, its lack of skill and knowledge. Also nobody asked for your future prognosis on Leffen being able to compete in SF6, fact right now is he cant hang with anyone, he doesnt know the matchups. And in Strive he is used to playing HC the same way against any matchup, same shit over and over, nearly no adjustment...and thats why i said the Strive competition is ass. The people competing couldnt stop his uninspired flowchart HC, its a shame, lets be real. ruclips.net/video/_cvMG1FFAFc/видео.html But Lets see what the pros are saying about "big leff" :D You can dickride and defend Leffen all you want, in the end your dishonest opinion doesnt matter too much, does it? @@flowchartk3n
imagine telling me ( a ken main since deciduous teeth period ) that i shouldn't play my favorite character that i have always picked because he's strong in the newest game.
I don't think Leffen is carried. I think he has actual skill *I just think that said skill should be completely disregarded and dismissed not because of who he mains, but who he is as a person*
Really late to the party; not going to comment on Leffen because other people have already done it. I will say that as a spectator, a huge issue with the characters like Ken, HC, or Zero May Cry is that it's just frankly boring to watch 5 matches in a row because enough people in Top 8/6 are playing them, and then suddenly the mirror in Grand Finals. Don't get me wrong, you're absolutely right that during a high stakes tournament people are going to choose the strongest options, but it still sucks seeing the same thing that much.
I actually like fujin but that mirror match was so boring to me. Also Marvel is Marvel there's gonna be a team that everyone will use until everyone hates the sight of them. In my case I really disliked Nova but a lot of people use him, but I love Phoenix she's OP with very low health.
I think I just don't watch enough Marvel to hate any team in specific. Yeah ZMC is cheap af but it feels like one hit from any character kills in that game and it has to be more interesting to watch then morridoom
@@flowchartk3n im more complaining how some of it was just boring like yea they won but at that point i should of tuned off like congrats you won but shit was boring(have not watched sf6 finals so il see how that was)
The question is how much success was he having when he played Chipp and Zato and now he switched to HC and placed 3rd and 1st at EVO. Clearly he wont be having these results if he was not playing HC. No one is saying Leffen is not good, but so are many of the other players there Slash, Bean, Nage etc. Playing HC helps a lot because he is so much stronger than 90% of the roaster. When someone says you are carried that does not mean that you are not good at the game, but it does mean that a lot of your success is because the character is far stronger than most of the roaster.
@@flowchartk3n You are the one confused Lol. Season one and early 2 Zato was very strong have you forgotten probably top 3 up there with Nago. Did you read my post at all, Leffens primary strength in strive is that he plays super strong characters, characters that can carry you. Maybe you are new but season 1 and 2 Zato was very very strong in strive. It's obvious you did not read my comment,
@@lifeonleo1074 "The question is how much success was he having when he played Chipp and Zato" a lot. He had a lot of success. The first strive evo he got 3rd, the second he got first. He plays a strong character. Everyone has access to all the characters.
@@flowchartk3n everyone having access is not my point neither am I complaining about Leffen, I don't know where you keep commming up with that. Let ne state clearly so you understand, strong characters carry players, Zato and HC are strong, does not mean you are not good but the best no way, HC has won the last two evos, Umusho switched to Sol and did not do well after winning past year with HC. If that is not evidence that HC carries having won the last two evos then me talking to you is pointless. Have a good day
@@lifeonleo1074 fucking hillarious. Leffen gets 3rd on Zato = Leffen did well and Zato is too strong. Umisho got 4th on sol = Umisho did not do well and sol is weak.
Idk sf6 not many average jeo can polite the characters and optimize them but strives final match could be replaced by a floor 10 match and no one would notice
Guilty Gear has a lot longer durations of an offensive turn than street fighter, so without enough attention even deep bracket tourney matches can look like decent players just running their offence. Strive is also muuuuch more developed in player understanding of the game compared to 2 months of SF6 so offence has been more optimized. So many people all over Sunday and latter half of Saturday were dropping the tourney combos let alone anyone who was trying more elaborate stuff
peoplear so quick to separate the character from the player and its crazy its ok to dislike a chaarcter but completely invalidating someone winning a tournament for using them is insane. Its mental to me how angry bird is getting hate for the character he uses like he didn't just win a tournament with 7000 participants.
Leffen's evo placements in strive are 1st, 3rd, and 1st with 3 different characters. Anyone claiming he's carried pretty obviously having their opinions tainted by their opinions on him as a personality.
True but only really getting into watching guilty gear as a I try to understand older fighting game design I watched strive's evo for comparison. I only played the betas and knew them game was 100% not something I'd enjoy. It just felt awful to me. Other GG titles give me more fun. However when watching EVO for strive it feels heavily like the players there are more so from a weekly tournament than EVO. The caliber of play just felt very low compared to other games at evo. Leffen clearly is among if not the most skilled there but to me competition didn't seem high. Heck the match with the ky and the sol in top 6 felt like it was a high level online match with how the ky was playing to me. I don't even think its just strive isn't a game I get cause they Ky was fundamentally making mistakes. It really felt like only the top 3 could belong in a top 8 at evo. Then learning that the previous evo champ, someone who judging by their sol plays like someone who would lose in top 8 losers side, won with HC to me it seems like leffen definitely is getting a strong boost from HC. Does he need it? Maybe to take the crown, but to still be a strong player no. But seriously I don't get strives showing at evo its like the very competitive players abandoned it. Felt like a 10+ year old side game where you have 1-3 people who played day 1 and never stopped vs people who picked up the game that year. That is to say for a mainstage evo tournament the competition didn't meet the same expectations other games set. I don't know for sure but sentiment to me is game is more popular with casuals but the changes turned off the vast majority of die hard competitive players. Mirror matches can be bad but when the skill levels remain at its peak it will always be enjoyed. Strive baring the 3rd and 2nd to last game featuring the nago player just didn't hit it for me. Even then the 3rd game was more so a case of FINALLY THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR! Proper spacing, jailing, conditioning, high stakes gambiling, stark adaptation and so on. If the matches were't bomb defusal tests i'd enjoy it more so to see the players evolve more. Anyway I'm done ranting but if someone did read all this and happen to understand why the competition just didn't feel that strong baring top 3 compared to other titles I'm interested. I mean even in kof where you have 2 people who you bet on which will win and the rest, the rest are still packing heat. Its just the 2 above them are gods and the rest happen to be legends.
@@tbc1880 respectfully, your opinion on how good top players are in strive is worthless and you have no frame of reference for what you're talking about. Umisho just won ECT. Tempest just qualified for AWT. All players who were at evo. Ask top level strive players what they think about the competitive landscape if you want but the eyeball test is only as good as the eyeballs evaluating it
@@flowchartk3n I would agree if it wasn't the extreme outlier despite not being an extremely weird game. My issue isn't that they aren't good at strive is that top strive players weren't exhibiting the same highs of other games. Only charitable answer to the players is strive has a lower ceiling, but I don't think that is it. Even simpler and more fundamental based games keep in line. But I suppose trying to ask them would be the best course to try and find a solution. As in for me I think something is wrong and its clear as day comparing it to other titles at evo but be it the players or the game itself idk.
The issue is that Leffen is a toxic player and no one likes him, add that he is playing the most annoying broken character in that game and you get pure and undiluted hate.
Leffen won Evo after people stopped playing Guilty Gear, he got washed in SF6 and focused on a game where the competition is lower with a power creep DLC character. Guilty Gear is like Marvel in how there's so much cheap stuff in the game it's not really worth paying attention to competitively and just survives on looking cool. Guilty Gear just isn't balanced enough to make winning in it impressive with Happy Chaos.
Seeing the new stuff that is going to be added for S3 is probably why most people don't care too much about HC, other characters just need more options to use against him and his more oppresive toolkit Also Leffen just kind of being a miserable person doesn't help much. He could have been playing my boy Axl absolutely perfectly and I still would have been as deadpan at his win
Umisho uses HC some were mad but fine with it Leffen uses HC and they lose their minds I understand why people dont like leffen and sucks seeing the guy who starts problems and gets away with because he plays buttons well win its like if LTG won evo. I've been told by friends how much players like punk and leffen cause problems for tournaments and heard from a friend who was at Evo Japan yelling at Japan staff for small problems causing the tournament to be delayed because of the problems of punks complaining
I think that you're right that characters played by crazy good players seem busted, but Happy Chaos is a busted character to the point where winning against him becomes a "guess right or lose" situation more often than not, and you dont even have to be amazing at the character, you just have to learn the flowchart of his moves and practice them. And then nobody aside from really good players will be able to beat you, realistically. And the better you are, the harder that character carries you over the finish line. Romolla quit playing HC because it was too easy for her to win.
1:15 yo thats me! Nice video btw. Could not agree with the sentiment more. While it is true that i do not like leffen as a person, his skill at strive is undisputed and i respect him as a player. Would never go onto twitter to shit talk him, especially not during what has to be one of the best days of his life.
Heyy I got two people from the crowd in the comments now. Thanks for the kind words. Just to be clear and incase you didn't see the pinned comment reply, I just thought the crowd shot was funny. Obviously people can root for whoever they want and there is nothing wrong with simply not celebrating someone you don't like for winning.
I think a lot of people don't actually realise how hard it is to play chaos perfectly and on top of that leffen had to do that on a stage with an audience who mostly despise happy chaos with that level of pressure that shit ain't easy no matter how good you are. I won't deny chaos is busted I personally still have him top one but it is nuts to think anyone can pick him up and play to leffens level.
Leffen put in the time to learn the strongest character. He also got 3rd with Zato, another very difficult character to play. People are coping insanely saying he is not good just because he won with HC
@@flowchartk3n Funny you mention Zato. The reason he even abandoned zato in the first place was because he lost to HC. That's how strong he is. The Cross Up he has was even made with Zato in mind. HC carried Leffen. Of course funny enough Leffen almost lost in bracket TO a zato.
I like how this video basically doesn’t talk about it, and more about how people talk “broken characters broken.” Another RUclipsr made a compilation where Leffen got shat on in SF6, and Snake Eyes used the weakest Strive Character and won a major with it just for fun. Leffen is a speed fighter, and fails elsewhere.
Snake eyez is an incredible player but I highly doubt his pot would have beaten a single person in evo top 6. Leffen played very well with a very strong character. It is possible he could not have won without HC, but we cannot know.
The secret is to stop following the meta lol. But money is on the line, rules go out the window per-se. We need some anti-meta tournaments. Tournaments where players play their characters all based on their own ability in totality (not just their execution but the tactics involved as well). Gamers like Leffen skip all the skips involved in creating techniques as much as possible and thus make these games easier than they should be. Before the internet this wasn't as big of a deal. But now it really is. And they're drawing new players into this mentality as well.
"make these games easier then they should be" bro do you even read what you type? Goddamn. Imagine thinking that only fgc lab scientists should be getting tourney results.
Lmao a hood example of its the player not the character is Zero from smash. I know about the controversy but he was the first person to show people that its truly the player and that any character can be good.
controversy aside, Zero is undoubtedly one of the best smash players of all time. There aren't really any people in modern smash who can match his win streak, closest would probably be peak MKleo
Among all the finals this one was the most boring one. Leffen's character landed a single hit, did a combo and super... 50% gone then landed another hit and did the same combo again but the opponent hit the corner wall and died. You asked why the rest of the players are wasting their time using other characters. Not even Mahvel was this free because at least people used zero may cry.
I think that's an oversimplification but it doesn't really matter. Whether something was fun to watch or not is subjective, I thought it was interesting to see HC played at the highest level. I continue to think that HC is strong and needs balancing, so hopefully in the coming years we can see more diversity.
I don´t know what people expect, it´s impossible to be a master at 2 games at the same time, so you´ve got to play the optimal stuff if you want to win. HC is the optimal character in strive, so he plays it. If GGS players had a bit less of a pride, we would also have seen a lot of HC mirror matches. It´s the same as any other game for example, LoL. You can play the top 3 characters that are broken this season and climb fast or you could play garbage characters and climb super slow.
yeah i totally agree with this and I also like using lol as an example. Any player saying " I would NEVER play yuumi i dont care that shes broken she takes no skill" is getting laughed off the team. Leffen is a competitor. He did great on Zato, and could have continued with him but picked what he thought would give him a better chance to win. And he was fucking right
@@flowchartk3n yeah. After posting this I researched a little and apparently Leffen is an asshole. But I think it's pretty understandable, a lot of FGC players play that drama-villain narrative and it's nothing new. I personally don't like him, and I actually don't think he's mechanically that good, but he has a lot of good instincts and a very solid gameplan, even if it is extremely annoying. If anything, the blame is on arcsys for not needing HC before this big tournament. It's not a coincidence that he won't 2 evos.
For as "broken" HC may seem ppl forget he's the hardest character in the game to pick up. If he was as stupid as ppl make him seem alot more people would play him like s1 Sol but you don't see 90% of the playerbase playing him like fusions lab coat from DBFZ. Let him rock, people should just adapt and either play around him /learn the matchup or accept you as a player just can't beat him (HC). Before HC it was Ram, Nago, May, Leo, or Sol showing ppl are always going to complain even if HC exists or not.
regardless of how strong or not strong he is, he is basically able to skip any interaction with the enemy, automatically negates any unique player expression by forcing one specific way to play against him and gets stupidly good return for relatively low risks. He is not fun to watch and seeing him take Evo, played by one of the least liked players of the entire FGC, obviously resulted in people being displeased
honestly there is not much discussion. Most top players dont play happy chaos, but i imagine that it's because they feel more comfortable with a character that has more tools for them to work with. Nago and Ram are great. But yeah, Leffen is (in my opinion) definitely carried. He's not a bad player, not at all. He's amazing! With happy chaos. He looks dumb playing other characters.
Happy Chaos is so hated because his kit is extremely oppressive, he is excellent at every range, punishes the opponent for trying to whiff punish, can convert to a wall to wall combo from almost every normal without meter, has insane meter gain, has multiple starters for big damage combos, can use Roll to side switch with upper body invul, has insane wallslump pressure, etc. And for all his positive points he only has one major fault, not having a reversal. In short, most strive players just don't want to see Happy Chaos winning. After all, rooting for the underdog is way more interesting for most people, like when Jiro won World challenge Cup 2022 with Anji.
Happy Chaos is just way too good. But at the same time, he is very hard to use. He still feels overtuned at times. However, he is still beatable, and damn, Snake Eyez can just pot bust anyone in Guilty Gear.
the grand finals was actually boring as hell due to the happy chaos move set in the hands of a pro. wouldve been nice to see him switch to chipp for a few rounds
You may have enjoyed it but the crowd was dead as hell. There’s nothing fun about watching a full screen lock down because if play optimally the two characters are that far apart from each other strength wise
Meanwhile thirdstrike everyone is carried by ken akuma Chun yun urin don't get me started with alpha 3 and 2 including st. Every fighting game players get carried
U know why I am mad at leffens win. Its because he didnt win on chipp and won on HC smh. How else am I suppose so see my favorite ninja say broken Japanese.
Honestly don't hate the player getting carried by a character. Hate the devs that made it possible in the firdt place. If HC is broken they should've nerfed him.
Reminds me of league of legends Asol champ. Before rework asol mains were respected why? because it was cock and ball torture to play him people respected you because they can beat you easily, now after rework he's broken you get no respect for maining him. Bottom line is play a dogshit character and put yourself through cock and ball torture to get mid results and walked like a dog by everyone for internet brownie points. You can never win. Play who you want or play someone that does what you want i.e win evo
No people have played old games far more broken than any new game out like 3rd strike and won matches look at kuroda for a example no character carried him he was just that good.
My only complaint is just Leffen, he isnt a good person. I rather not see someone like him suceed. He could be playing Zato or Chipp and it'll be the same regardless. Though Ken winning Evo was Hype as fuck. Props to the birds!
What a great nuanced take on a topic in a competitive scene. However i will still never respect a happy chaos. (i play so much happy chaos) For real though its nice short little video you made here, nice work!
No but in every game he picks what he perceives to be top tier/meta relevant at the time, very simple. This is especially evident with Strive where it hasn’t taken much for him to change mains
i would disagree it "hasnt taken much" he changed from zato to HC and I dont see those characters as similar at all. He put in more work than anyone else and it payed off. "He plays top tier" at evo is like saying someone in the NFL works out a lot. No shit.
Has anyone even seen the tier lists? I mean i hate leffen dont get me wrong, but he did win with a high tier versus a top tier. There's no carry argument to be made. No one cares about his win because no one likes or really respects Leffen. Thats all it comes down to.
Leffen always dogged on other players for their skill level whenever he lost. *Cough* Hungrybox *cough*. He's getting a good taste of his own medicine.
The problem is this flawed mentality of influencers and content makers who simply can't call out developers on bad balance and design decisions. Strive is poorly balanced game and Chaos is poorly designed character. But instead of proper discussion of balance which can lead into more balanced games the message is always "shut up and git gud". And then you suprised nobody takes Leffen's win seriously? Same was the last year, people were much more impressed by May taking second place than Chaos taking the first. Being afraid to criticize developers and their decisions leads to stale meta, broken characters and overall more frustration from players who forced to deal with bullshit characters like Happy Chaos (and most Strive's top tier tbh).
@@flowchartk3n i left, tbh berserker was the only reason i played the game and everything that i liked and made me unique from others are gone or watered down. So i gave the patch a chance and decided to leave in the end. Looking forward to fighting you in MK1 🤝🏽
I don't get to watch live tournaments that much because of timezones, and my schedule in general. So i usually watch the vods, or youtube videos of the tournaments when i got time. But when i learned that Leffen won Evo, i didn't bother watching the Grand Finals. Not because of Happy Chaos, because it was Leffen.
Imagine HC winning the last two evos and ssying HC does not carry. Leffen switched to HC and Won, Umisho perhaps the best HC switched to sol and did not get to winners finsl despite winning last year. Yet HC does not carry LOL, ok FGC.
people dont like playing chaos cause of how lame you are while playing him so lots of top players arnt on him, but leffen who put the time in has maxed out the broken happy chaos, when we say hes carried we dont mean he would be trash without chaos, but if he didnt have such an overwhelming character advantage he probably wouldn't have won evo
Marvel three was super funny. Everyone kept talking about how the meta had grown and evolved and the game was different since a decade ago....only for a mirror of the same old bullshit to hit grand finals. The more things change...
@@flowchartk3n big agree. KBR taking it would have been nice. Honestly, biggest personal disappointment was that rayray didn't make top 8 since he's one of the guys that never stopped the grind.
I'm not really bothered by mirrors at high level or even "OP" characters. I never watched UvMC3 before evo, so the first time I saw Zero may cry I thought it was really cool. But it quickly got boring to watch. However that's not a reason to hate on the player. Jibrill played like a monster and was super consistent with it. Its admirable to see how far someone can take a character(s). Even if its not fun to watch. Plus I think that has more to do with UvMC3 than the actual characters themselves. Hell when Umisho won last year, I thought that was some of the coolest plays ever. I didn't care that she was playing HC, she earned it. And as much as I dislike leffen, that's purely as him as a person. He is a god gamer, and his HC is amazing. I was rooting against him the entire night, but he earned that trophy. No one should take that away from him. I'll always prefer players like Daru I-NO cause they're just more entertaining to watch and I find his undying loyalty to best GG girl admirable, but no one should hate on players for using top tier characters. Still takes an ass load of work to get to the top. Noticed how many other HC's were in the top 6? It was just Leffen. Now if it was 6 HC's, or 6 Kens, or 6 Zero may cries I think those arguments would be valid. But they weren't and it likely never will be.
Yep I think the only examples of carried characters in the past have been the scourge of LC21 and the Tekken tournament where it was nearly all Leroy. Even then, the players that won are no less skilled for it, they had to beat the same character
id say HC haters just went up in arms cuz of "Leffen's History" we all know he used to be a bad person, and is still pretty toxic at times, but he's never gonna scape haters, yeah HC is broken, but it also needs a capable pilot to go up and beat all 5k+ players on Evo. i dont like Leffen, but he won by his own merits over other "HC pros"...
Leffen is a special case from the rest of these players because he is disliked as a player and not just for HC. However I looked through quite a bit of twitter to try and see the sentiment and there is a surprising disconnect between people who hate leffen because of his smash past, and people who hate leffen literally only because he plays HC. A good comparison is last year when he got 3rd with Zato he was looked at much more favorably. The evo crowd doesnt really have anything for or against leffen by himself, and although some people do know who he is from smash a very large number of people are just upset to see HC win. Which is silly imo because watching Leffen play is the highest level HC gameplay I have ever seen. The way he plays the character is incredible
everyone always wants to the blame the character or say they’re carried but in all honesty ur just trash whoever wins in the match is a better player. just is how it is doesn’t matter what character u play.
Игры
I don’t see how Leffen has complained about puff for years in Melee, but now uses Happy Chaos in strive 🤦♂️
Leffens puff complaints were stupid and history has made him look even dumber. Mango fucked around with puff but I think time has basically proven it's hbox, not the character
@@flowchartk3nto be fair though
Comparing HC to puff like the original commentor did is just kinda stupid tbh
Like do you even play the game
He’s probably thinking about season 1 HC
Strive is a shallow game where Happy Chaos is an outlier, Melee's overall faster but Puff is an outlier, that's the only comparison I could see?
@@Wiziliz idk how much Strive exp you have
But HC isnt really a good comparison imo
Isnt puff considered a boring character towatch bcs she is stalling the timer a lot
Or smth
HC doesnt do any of that so idk what the similarities between them are
Looks like melee experience made him realize top tier its indeed the shortest and easy way
Is leffins skill respectable? Yes, he's very good there's no denying that.
But winning Evo doesn't mean people have to like you as a person now. Which is why the reaction was kind of just mid when Leffin won, he's made himself an enemy, not even a fun heel kind of way like PR balrog. He's toxic, starts drama, his community tries to start drama with other people and he hasn't really grown as an individual over the years. He could choose to be a positive influance or even neutral but he doesn't and he's the only one at fault for that.
Imagine the kind of person you gotta be for the crowd reaction at evo to be mild.
Yeah crowd reaction is understandable, I just thought it was funny how deadpan it was
So like, what drama has he started and what has he said or done that makes him "toxic"? All I am aware is he has something to do with the groomer known as Zero and apparently because Zero is a groomer had made Zero almost commit die on himself?
@@DANCERcow I am not the person to answer this, but Leffen has absolutely started random drama and people hate him for mostly justifiable reason.
In most cases he is at best a salty argumentative asshole.
At worst, he has bullied people near to the point of self harm and perpetuated false narratives without knowing the truth. For an example, he piled onto a blatantly false story about M2K, which forced him to reveal very personal and embarrassing information in order to clear his name.
It seems clear to me that Leffen is not a great person. He lies somewhere in between toxic FGC personality and genuinely terrible person.
M2K said on stream that leffen apologized to him. He's done more than enough good things to make up for being an ass in the past.@@flowchartk3n
@@lydiawilder5996 I mean... Has he though.
With the Leffen situation I was very mad when watching, NOT because he is carried by HC, I said "He´s amazing on HC, it´s insane how good he plays." to my friend but because of the matches that could´ve been if HC wasn´t a thing. The character forces certain characters out of tournaments when we are at a point where we saw almost the whole cast getting pretty good representation in comparison to last year's tournaments. I also don´t like Leffen but that is beside the point I was just sad that I have to watch "boring matches" as no matter how good your execution is, HC tends to be a lame viewer experience caused by his Moveset.
Yeah Leff has some pretty well deserved haters
About being carried by HC: I think it goes beyond just the good character. Like, Ken is top tier, but he still allow an interaction between the two characters in the match.
With HC, and I believe Asuka later, they reward you too much for learning them. Are they the hardest characters to learn? Yes. But once you master them, you don't have to play the game anymore, your opponent won't interact unless you make a mistake, that's where the being carried enter. You learn the character, but you are carried by a rewarding game plan that let you avoid playing the interaction game. They don't need to read your moves, don't need to understand how you play or react to wath you do, they play their own game.
I don't fully agree with this but I think you are rewarded way too much for learning the character is a good way of thinking about it
I feel like it is a synergy of a toxic character people hate (plus on freaking whiff) and person people hate (many other people explained already why). I will not deny his skill, but it is also silly to deny that HCs strength did not contribute to his success.
Makes me excited for system updates in season 3 though and how much that could affect HC with everything changing though. If Leffen starts to fall off ater these we will be able to definitely answer whether he was "really carried" though.
HC + Leffen definitely united the world lol
@@flowchartk3nyeah i liked his zato a lot better, i mean he can still Cook with hc a bit but its like... nah dude lmao
Leffen will always be 'carried' by his character though. Because he will always play whoever he thinks the best in the game is, period.
Season one he played chipp because in his own tier list he put chipp as the best in the game. Once chipp was nerfed in season two, he dropped him immediately.
Season three if the nerfs mean HC isn't the best in the game? Expect leffen to switch to johnny or leo or whoever the best in the game is once the dust settles.
If he spent so many years shitting so hard on some smash players for having a "boring playstyle" it's only fair that he gets backlash when he ends up abusing an outlier that makes the game extremly boring for everyone else.
So no it's not just a matter of a pro using the best character, it's about a guy trying to pretend you have integrity if you play certain characters and personally shaming those who don't , only to adopt the most shallow gameplan if it works for him.
I think there is an issue with how you compared the number of tournament wins per SF6 character. The one Ken tournament win, evo, matters a lot more than all those Cammy or Guile wins. That evo tournament had the best player from all over the world, but those Cammy and Guile wins were more local tournaments with only Americans, and often not even all the top American attend them. For instance, of course Cammy is going to have that many American tournament wins, the best American player, Punk, happens to play her.
That's reasonable. I think my point still stands, the meta is in a spot where although there is a clear top tier it has 6-7 characters capable of winning tournaments and that is pretty good balance for vanilla games
Respectfully he’s the only pro that has that degree of success with her.
@@acecun6202 Punk is single handedly carrying cammy to relevance in NA
@@flowchartk3n He’s the only Pro in GENERAL that has that level of success with her. I’d argue that he’s the reason people put Cammy S Tier. I personally don’t thing she’s S tier. She takes an almost god like level of patience and footsie control just to be able to be played as well as Punk plays her and he still struggles against the actual top tiers like Ken and Luke. Not to mention the tricky Blanka that Mena is able to pull out
Na I just hate Leffen.
Same
Same
understandable tbh.
Amazing player. Terrible take haver. Possibly terrible person.
@@flowchartk3n”Possibly terrible person” he made/spread fake SA accusations against Mewtwo king that he randomly came on a woman, so he had to make it public, his botched circumcision
@@kgrey0582 pretty fucked up. I don't defend anything he's done. This is not a "is leffen a good person" video.
i think that most of the hate leffen gets inst entirely because of chaos, its because of chaos AND leffen being a generally awful person combined
It's definitely a combo
I think the real issue is that the overall FGC is much less centralized due to there being more games than ever to play, which Ironically leads to said games having more centralized metas. Street Fighter as a brand used to have enough gravity to pull in players from other games. A good example of this would be Tokido. Before SF4 reached it's peak it was common to see him playing in top 8's for KOF or Blazblue. Despite this, you'd be hard pressed to find someone that doesn't think of him as a Street Fighter player. Nowadays you're not doomed to obscurity if you don't play Street Fighter, so the best of the best players can choose a game that fits their style rather than using unorthodox strats in a game that doesn't. So you end up with a lot of players with similar preferences at top.
I mean tokido has been playing SF since DSP was himself a current pro fighting game player so I think it's fair to associate him with the game
@@flowchartk3n My point is moreso that the talent pool is spread out. Back in the 2000's players from all sorts of communities saw Street Fighter as the best option and chose to focus on it. This led to diverse strategies and character choice at a high level, as players used to different games naturally had very different styles. But today, these players don't have as much incentive to stray from their main games. Arslan Ash and Xiaohai both could've done well in SF6 if they really wanted to, but they both chose to stick to (and win) their main games.
Basically I'm saying when birds of a feather flock together, you can't expect as much variety.
People can now just play the games that they care about which is a good thing. I think the "everyone at the top plays the same" issue is due more to how easy it is to access information now. People played 3s for years without using aegis reflector on urien. Today that would be week 1 tech and you'd see it in silver rank.
Sounds like you’re just trying to force your own theory here
That's more a problem with the games imo. SF6 have some wildly different ways that people play it, even with kens players (its more nuanced stuff admittedly and its still an early game). 3S is a great example though with the Aegis stuff. @@janivirtanen5722
Just because Leffen is good at pushing buttons doesn't necessarily translate to him being a good person. He is the common denominator in many dramas in FGC and probably half of Smash drama originates from him.
Is there any place in this video that makes that claim, or anything even close to that?
@@flowchartk3n No but did I claim you said that? All I said is Leffen is not a good person. Full stop.
while the other half I'm guessing are the pedos.
@@flowchartk3n there's an excellent video by thefranChise that goes into detail about some of the horrible things Leffen has done
ruclips.net/video/xU6HkfjkmzI/видео.html
But I only care he is good at pushing buttons
This type of complaining or heckling happens in every sport so im not surprised. Like for example in MMA ppl would say "Oh of course he had to lay on him to win" or "All he did was spam leg kicks". Sometimes way worse things are said.
Its gonna happen as this becomes more of a sport. As long as its nothing crazy like I saw a good amount of jp folks on twitter calling Punk the n word and crackman 😅.
Damn yeah that's insane. I never watch with chat on lol it doesn't really add anything for me
Just because leffen is good at HC does not mean he is good at guilty gear. You can give him props for being a good competeitor but with a character like HC that has such fundamentally skewd risk reward and being able to put all the work onto the opponent to have to stop you from doing strong character stuff, i think its fair to call that out. Its more then HC is strong.
TLDR Give him credit for winning as a competitor, not as a better player
could not disagree more.
@@flowchartk3n really? I dont think anything i said was all that removed from what your point was. I just think that there is a big difference in the way people should assess skill relative to winning methods
Also using sf in a comparison of top tiers to an anime game is goofy ngl
Yeah, yeah, whatever. Still shoutouts to Umisho with her swap to Sol. She's the only reason we didn't see two HCs in Grand Finals and the only reason Leffen won
big tru
Leffen lost to HC then swapped to HC.
Is leffen a good player? Yes.
Did he put in the work? Yes.
Does HC regularly break the rules? Yes.
Is HC disproportionately rewarded for his technical to an obscene degree? Yes.
Does he have to interact with his opponent? Not really
And this is why no one cheers for HC.
Even Nagoriyuki is less hated than HC because at least Nago is at risk and has to take risks.
Was he carried? Whats your definition?
Did playing HC dramatically raise his chances to win? Definitely.
so many questions, so many answers
If I was there live, I probably wouldn't clap for Leffen when he won, but I wouldn't boo him either.
Because unlike Leffen, I respect people and things that aren't Leffen
This is a good take tbh
Honestly, watching evo was so exciting for the games I did watch because of the variety. Like I got to see modern chun in top 6, kbr with his haggar team come back against zero may cry, punk's cammy doing better against blanka, and bob in tekken do well. Like I get where people are coming from but people complaining about someone else's achievement seems kinda weird to me.
I have watched like 7 or 8 EVOs now and this one was by far the most exciting. The urge to immediately go and shit on someone right after they win something is so stupid to me, I have a very hard time understanding where someone is coming from who tweets some out of pocket shit minutes after the game ends
If Leffen is carried then definitely Umisho was carried by HC. Fair is fair
true
I mean, this still doesn't change the fact HC carried him, I respect the skill, but the playstyle has to be something commendable for people to respect the player. If not, then I honestly can't respect them as an FG player at all.
I'll let him know you don't respect him, it's joever for Leff
@@flowchartk3n The fact he may have friends is just sad.
short answer:
yes
long answer:
yes
I look forward to your HC evo run next year
HC is top tier in Strive, but Leffen still had to put in the effort.
fair
Got carried. It is what it is.
Wild
I’d agree except for the fact HC has been to majors and finals over and over again leffen or not. I don’t think people doubt leffen is a good player, only that in fact he’s playing a character that largely negates a lot of matchups vs other characters after you pass the needed skill floor. More of a yell at arcsys imo to make the character more interesting in areas and subtract others like reload. But we’ll see how the new patch fairs w/wild assault & blue burst
WA looks very cool, idk what the implications will be but the animations for it look awesome
I love when people call a meta stale when it’s only been like that for a couple of months(sf6), or at worst a year in GGStrive’s case. MVC3 has been out for like 12-13 years and the last update it got was a year after it came out.
As for the player hate, I think Leffen is a good player, I do not like him because he’s a royal d-bag. I also am not a fan of Sonicfox, because they’re just annoying to me. But they are also a good player.
Honestly, we just need to take a firm stance and eject people who are overly negative and hateful. Complaining is fine, but saying people are carried by their characters and dooming about game balance constantly gets no one anywhere.
Anyways, that’s my rant. Thanks for listening. Also Leffen deserves to be hated.
7/10 Ted Talk, 10/10 use of d-bag
Sonicfox they are also a good player im confuzzled, is there more than 1 sonic fox ?
@@plasticbudgie sonic fox is ‘non-binary’ so ‘they’ like to be referred to as ‘they’
Im going to be honest, the Strive EVO was miserable. It was all top tier characters and everyone was 3-0ing each other. Not a single reset. And it doesn't help that Leffen after winning had to make a tweet about it instead of celebrating his win. Goes to show what kind of person he is. Thank god for the SF6 finals or else this would've been a pretty bad EVO.
wym make a tweet about it instead of celebrating his win? He’s just addicted to that social media platform like most people these days are to one or another, doesn’t stop someone from then celebrating
I’m not trying to defend Leffen but it’s like you’re already trying to make assumptions and frame his actions in the worst light
SF6 had a pretty incredible finals, but idk what you mean by make a tweet instead of celebrating. I think he just basically said fuck you to people after winning which is a very leffen way to celebrate
@@Amaling he had to make a tweet about himself winning and being the best player of all time. Then made a tweet towards Mango to flex on him.
Ego problem.
@@flowchartk3n Every EVO champion either joins the crowd, breaks down crying or are on their knees. They're celebrating in the moment. Leffen just stands there and makes a tweet about his win. It's just very anticlimactic. You'd think he'd be more happy considering how much he wanted to win an Evo.
Well I do say he's a bit carried by chaos being high tier I'm not above admiting that he's a great player all players of high tier characters are a bit carried but still the need the skill to win with them in events
based
leffen's evo placements for strive are 1st, 3rd, and 1st with 3 different characters. So the answer is pretty clearly no, he obviously isnt carried.
agreed
The character is boring
That’s why I hate the character
I don’t hate leffen for picking the character
I hate him for being an ass that whines like a baby when he doesn’t get his way, before being an absolute hypocrite
Example: laser stalling with fox while complaining about puff
Im trying to understand why we needed a video explanation to determine that a smash player *(smash is literally about zoning and spamming)* is carried by a spammy ass zoning characters
CARRIED BY THE WAVES
I don't play strive, but from the time I saw happy chaos and how people were with him. That character is cheap and has good carrying capacity.
Question: Why didn't he do it with Chip Zan?
to be fair, no one has done it with Chip. Before evo came back he switched to Zato and got 3rd, and Bean has been the only Chip I have seen with much success
not as prestigious but he did win Euro Evo 2021 with Chipp
@@Anthem34 totally forgot about that - you're right he won the evo online year as well when he was still on chip. So technically his results are 1st/3rd/1st for every evo strive has existed
Chipp, despite being high tier, is a pretty rough tournament character. His swap to Zato shows that as well.
Honestly I feel like saying someone is carried by X character on its own is fine. I think that after a certain point though there are additives in everyone's message to dampen the perspective on certain players as people which I feel is ONLY warranted for Leffen out of all mentioned in this video. It's a bad sign that seemingly no matter what community he goes to there is some problem that arises, or there are problems that had persisted for years before people stopped blatantly cheering it on. I'm obviously not the most studied when it comes to EVERY controversy he's had in the fighting game community, but when there are top figureheads like snake eyes who detest him, it goes further than just downplaying a player. Even shinkensou, who isn't as well known as some of the people making these tweets, had an issue with Leffen in 2021 over Strive. Now I'd like to give benefit of the doubt to everyone but if Leffen's behavior overall has stemmed from events prior to his ban in 2013 in Melee (with evidence.zip) and has continued throughout the years, I struggle to think that these comments on him being carried themselves, and anything mentioned after that, are just bad spectators.
Leffen does like to clash with people over literally nothing so i cant say much there
Gotta be honest, Strive competition is just ass :D Thats the only reason Leffen could win Evo in a non smash game. There is a reason Leffen dropped SF6 and DBFZ, he knows he cant hang and everyone in the fgc knows it.
Could not disagree more. I think it's nearly impossible to be evo winning level in multiple games at the same time and leffen made a smart choice as a competition to stick to one.
Maybe he will never be good at SF, I cannot tell the future. But I can tell you when he started playing strive people said the exact same shit about how he'd never be good and he's now got one 3rd and one 1st. Dude is just unreal talented and hard working. I wouldn't bet against him if he went all in on SF
You clealry dont know what you are talking about. Trying to frame Leffen not being able to compete in certain games due to his lack of skill as some kind of smart move seems a bit dishonest to say the least.
Real fg players like J Wong, Tokido, Daigo, Sanford Kelly, John Choi, Alex Valle, Sonic Fox, Snake Eyes, Viscant, Chris G, F Champ, Infiltration and others are all able to compete in different games at the same EVO, winning or placing top 3 in all kinds of different games, knowing the matchups, the frame data, the combos and all of that jazz, how come Leffen cant do that?! Because he isnt on the same level, he just isnt.
"leffen made a smart choice as a competition to stick to one" Its not a choice, its lack of skill and knowledge.
Also nobody asked for your future prognosis on Leffen being able to compete in SF6, fact right now is he cant hang with anyone, he doesnt know the matchups.
And in Strive he is used to playing HC the same way against any matchup, same shit over and over, nearly no adjustment...and thats why i said the Strive competition is ass.
The people competing couldnt stop his uninspired flowchart HC, its a shame, lets be real.
ruclips.net/video/_cvMG1FFAFc/видео.html But Lets see what the pros are saying about "big leff" :D You can dickride and defend Leffen all you want, in the end your dishonest opinion doesnt matter too much, does it?
@@flowchartk3n
imagine telling me ( a ken main since deciduous teeth period ) that i shouldn't play my favorite character that i have always picked because he's strong in the newest game.
How dare you
Deciduous teeth period! Thats funny, damn.
I don't think Leffen is carried. I think he has actual skill
*I just think that said skill should be completely disregarded and dismissed not because of who he mains, but who he is as a person*
fair
I can't 100% guarantee that we are in an age where games are poorly made for consumption and not good at the core level and people are carried.
we live in a society
the dsp clip had me in tears
He did nothing wrong, he did everything correct
Really late to the party; not going to comment on Leffen because other people have already done it.
I will say that as a spectator, a huge issue with the characters like Ken, HC, or Zero May Cry is that it's just frankly boring to watch 5 matches in a row because enough people in Top 8/6 are playing them, and then suddenly the mirror in Grand Finals. Don't get me wrong, you're absolutely right that during a high stakes tournament people are going to choose the strongest options, but it still sucks seeing the same thing that much.
Leffen wants to be carried by a top-tiers, and that's fine
true, he could never have made winners finals without HC tbh
why would you nerf yourself and play a low tier
I actually like fujin but that mirror match was so boring to me. Also Marvel is Marvel there's gonna be a team that everyone will use until everyone hates the sight of them. In my case I really disliked Nova but a lot of people use him, but I love Phoenix she's OP with very low health.
I think I just don't watch enough Marvel to hate any team in specific. Yeah ZMC is cheap af but it feels like one hit from any character kills in that game and it has to be more interesting to watch then morridoom
counter point i could care less if you won with a strong char it is what it is HOWEVER ima still complain and downplay your win
complaining about top tiers is half of FGC discourse, without it we would be powerless
@@flowchartk3n im more complaining how some of it was just boring like yea they won but at that point i should of tuned off like congrats you won but shit was boring(have not watched sf6 finals so il see how that was)
Yes, anyone that plays HC is carried by the character. HC is so damn gamebreaking.
toobaditsme evo champ 2024
The question is how much success was he having when he played Chipp and Zato and now he switched to HC and placed 3rd and 1st at EVO. Clearly he wont be having these results if he was not playing HC. No one is saying Leffen is not good, but so are many of the other players there Slash, Bean, Nage etc. Playing HC helps a lot because he is so much stronger than 90% of the roaster. When someone says you are carried that does not mean that you are not good at the game, but it does mean that a lot of your success is because the character is far stronger than most of the roaster.
my guy, he got 3rd with zato. I think you are confused here.
@@flowchartk3n You are the one confused Lol. Season one and early 2 Zato was very strong have you forgotten probably top 3 up there with Nago. Did you read my post at all, Leffens primary strength in strive is that he plays super strong characters, characters that can carry you. Maybe you are new but season 1 and 2 Zato was very very strong in strive. It's obvious you did not read my comment,
@@lifeonleo1074 "The question is how much success was he having when he played Chipp and Zato"
a lot. He had a lot of success. The first strive evo he got 3rd, the second he got first.
He plays a strong character. Everyone has access to all the characters.
@@flowchartk3n everyone having access is not my point neither am I complaining about Leffen, I don't know where you keep commming up with that. Let ne state clearly so you understand, strong characters carry players, Zato and HC are strong, does not mean you are not good but the best no way, HC has won the last two evos, Umusho switched to Sol and did not do well after winning past year with HC. If that is not evidence that HC carries having won the last two evos then me talking to you is pointless. Have a good day
@@lifeonleo1074 fucking hillarious.
Leffen gets 3rd on Zato = Leffen did well and Zato is too strong.
Umisho got 4th on sol = Umisho did not do well and sol is weak.
Idk sf6 not many average jeo can polite the characters and optimize them but strives final match could be replaced by a floor 10 match and no one would notice
Guilty Gear has a lot longer durations of an offensive turn than street fighter, so without enough attention even deep bracket tourney matches can look like decent players just running their offence. Strive is also muuuuch more developed in player understanding of the game compared to 2 months of SF6 so offence has been more optimized. So many people all over Sunday and latter half of Saturday were dropping the tourney combos let alone anyone who was trying more elaborate stuff
actually 0 chance of this happening
peoplear so quick to separate the character from the player and its crazy its ok to dislike a chaarcter but completely invalidating someone winning a tournament for using them is insane. Its mental to me how angry bird is getting hate for the character he uses like he didn't just win a tournament with 7000 participants.
Like there were no other kens there. Dude is just insane with it
Leffen's evo placements in strive are 1st, 3rd, and 1st with 3 different characters. Anyone claiming he's carried pretty obviously having their opinions tainted by their opinions on him as a personality.
agreed
True but only really getting into watching guilty gear as a I try to understand older fighting game design I watched strive's evo for comparison. I only played the betas and knew them game was 100% not something I'd enjoy. It just felt awful to me. Other GG titles give me more fun. However when watching EVO for strive it feels heavily like the players there are more so from a weekly tournament than EVO. The caliber of play just felt very low compared to other games at evo. Leffen clearly is among if not the most skilled there but to me competition didn't seem high.
Heck the match with the ky and the sol in top 6 felt like it was a high level online match with how the ky was playing to me. I don't even think its just strive isn't a game I get cause they Ky was fundamentally making mistakes. It really felt like only the top 3 could belong in a top 8 at evo. Then learning that the previous evo champ, someone who judging by their sol plays like someone who would lose in top 8 losers side, won with HC to me it seems like leffen definitely is getting a strong boost from HC. Does he need it? Maybe to take the crown, but to still be a strong player no.
But seriously I don't get strives showing at evo its like the very competitive players abandoned it. Felt like a 10+ year old side game where you have 1-3 people who played day 1 and never stopped vs people who picked up the game that year. That is to say for a mainstage evo tournament the competition didn't meet the same expectations other games set.
I don't know for sure but sentiment to me is game is more popular with casuals but the changes turned off the vast majority of die hard competitive players. Mirror matches can be bad but when the skill levels remain at its peak it will always be enjoyed. Strive baring the 3rd and 2nd to last game featuring the nago player just didn't hit it for me. Even then the 3rd game was more so a case of FINALLY THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR! Proper spacing, jailing, conditioning, high stakes gambiling, stark adaptation and so on. If the matches were't bomb defusal tests i'd enjoy it more so to see the players evolve more.
Anyway I'm done ranting but if someone did read all this and happen to understand why the competition just didn't feel that strong baring top 3 compared to other titles I'm interested. I mean even in kof where you have 2 people who you bet on which will win and the rest, the rest are still packing heat. Its just the 2 above them are gods and the rest happen to be legends.
@@tbc1880 respectfully, your opinion on how good top players are in strive is worthless and you have no frame of reference for what you're talking about. Umisho just won ECT. Tempest just qualified for AWT. All players who were at evo.
Ask top level strive players what they think about the competitive landscape if you want but the eyeball test is only as good as the eyeballs evaluating it
@@flowchartk3n I would agree if it wasn't the extreme outlier despite not being an extremely weird game. My issue isn't that they aren't good at strive is that top strive players weren't exhibiting the same highs of other games. Only charitable answer to the players is strive has a lower ceiling, but I don't think that is it. Even simpler and more fundamental based games keep in line.
But I suppose trying to ask them would be the best course to try and find a solution. As in for me I think something is wrong and its clear as day comparing it to other titles at evo but be it the players or the game itself idk.
Ehhh he will jist cry again when he loses this coming patch. Full screen bursts will check pressure from anywhere so no character is safe.
or switch characters and win again, as he has been known to do
The issue is that Leffen is a toxic player and no one likes him, add that he is playing the most annoying broken character in that game and you get pure and undiluted hate.
he definitely united some hater bases
Leffen won Evo after people stopped playing Guilty Gear, he got washed in SF6 and focused on a game where the competition is lower with a power creep DLC character. Guilty Gear is like Marvel in how there's so much cheap stuff in the game it's not really worth paying attention to competitively and just survives on looking cool. Guilty Gear just isn't balanced enough to make winning in it impressive with Happy Chaos.
nah everyone good at GG is/was still playing. Cope
Happy chase won evo 2 years in a row, do the math
Nice video!
Thank you 👍
Seeing the new stuff that is going to be added for S3 is probably why most people don't care too much about HC, other characters just need more options to use against him and his more oppresive toolkit
Also Leffen just kind of being a miserable person doesn't help much. He could have been playing my boy Axl absolutely perfectly and I still would have been as deadpan at his win
Axl mains kinda in shambles rn though
@@flowchartk3n We're mostly just kind of vibing and doing TK Axl Bombers
@@ellagage1256 the zoners simply cannot be stopped
The answer is yes.
🤷♀️
Umisho uses HC some were mad but fine with it
Leffen uses HC and they lose their minds
I understand why people dont like leffen and sucks seeing the guy who starts problems and gets away with because he plays buttons well win its like if LTG won evo. I've been told by friends how much players like punk and leffen cause problems for tournaments and heard from a friend who was at Evo Japan yelling at Japan staff for small problems causing the tournament to be delayed because of the problems of punks complaining
I mean if friends told you
The answer is, and will always be, yes.
yeah that video didn't answer anything other than "don't be salty imma use dsp as a argument"
Players aren't carried by characters is the point of the video. If you want to side with DSP in an argument be my guest
I think that you're right that characters played by crazy good players seem busted, but Happy Chaos is a busted character to the point where winning against him becomes a "guess right or lose" situation more often than not, and you dont even have to be amazing at the character, you just have to learn the flowchart of his moves and practice them. And then nobody aside from really good players will be able to beat you, realistically. And the better you are, the harder that character carries you over the finish line.
Romolla quit playing HC because it was too easy for her to win.
1:15 yo thats me! Nice video btw. Could not agree with the sentiment more. While it is true that i do not like leffen as a person, his skill at strive is undisputed and i respect him as a player. Would never go onto twitter to shit talk him, especially not during what has to be one of the best days of his life.
Heyy I got two people from the crowd in the comments now. Thanks for the kind words.
Just to be clear and incase you didn't see the pinned comment reply, I just thought the crowd shot was funny. Obviously people can root for whoever they want and there is nothing wrong with simply not celebrating someone you don't like for winning.
@@flowchartk3n based take. Also im 100% stealing that "lets go sword guy" frame for my banner lmao its too good not to use
@@Pope_Stormdrain LETS GO SWORD GUYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
I think a lot of people don't actually realise how hard it is to play chaos perfectly and on top of that leffen had to do that on a stage with an audience who mostly despise happy chaos with that level of pressure that shit ain't easy no matter how good you are. I won't deny chaos is busted I personally still have him top one but it is nuts to think anyone can pick him up and play to leffens level.
Leffen put in the time to learn the strongest character. He also got 3rd with Zato, another very difficult character to play. People are coping insanely saying he is not good just because he won with HC
@@flowchartk3n For real man people don't know what they are talking about half the time they are just blinded by the fact they dislike leffen I feel.
@@flowchartk3n Funny you mention Zato. The reason he even abandoned zato in the first place was because he lost to HC. That's how strong he is. The Cross Up he has was even made with Zato in mind. HC carried Leffen.
Of course funny enough Leffen almost lost in bracket TO a zato.
yeah playing HC perfectly is hard, playing every other character even more perfect to even be able to compete with HCs insane tools is harder.
I like how this video basically doesn’t talk about it, and more about how people talk “broken characters broken.”
Another RUclipsr made a compilation where Leffen got shat on in SF6, and Snake Eyes used the weakest Strive Character and won a major with it just for fun.
Leffen is a speed fighter, and fails elsewhere.
Snake eyez is an incredible player but I highly doubt his pot would have beaten a single person in evo top 6. Leffen played very well with a very strong character. It is possible he could not have won without HC, but we cannot know.
The secret is to stop following the meta lol.
But money is on the line, rules go out the window per-se.
We need some anti-meta tournaments. Tournaments where players play their characters all based on their own ability in totality (not just their execution but the tactics involved as well). Gamers like Leffen skip all the skips involved in creating techniques as much as possible and thus make these games easier than they should be. Before the internet this wasn't as big of a deal. But now it really is. And they're drawing new players into this mentality as well.
nah there is no skipping at this level. You put in the work or you lose. Leffen put in the work.
"make these games easier then they should be" bro do you even read what you type? Goddamn. Imagine thinking that only fgc lab scientists should be getting tourney results.
Lmao a hood example of its the player not the character is Zero from smash. I know about the controversy but he was the first person to show people that its truly the player and that any character can be good.
controversy aside, Zero is undoubtedly one of the best smash players of all time. There aren't really any people in modern smash who can match his win streak, closest would probably be peak MKleo
@@flowchartk3n yup, I agree
Leffen is the GOAT heel
He kinda is
hes a good player still won by HC carry
i wish someone would carry me to evo champ tbh
Happy Chaos is why I quit GGStrive. Everybody using the same 3 characters and bad balance patches.
Among all the finals this one was the most boring one. Leffen's character landed a single hit, did a combo and super... 50% gone then landed another hit and did the same combo again but the opponent hit the corner wall and died. You asked why the rest of the players are wasting their time using other characters. Not even Mahvel was this free because at least people used zero may cry.
I think that's an oversimplification but it doesn't really matter. Whether something was fun to watch or not is subjective, I thought it was interesting to see HC played at the highest level.
I continue to think that HC is strong and needs balancing, so hopefully in the coming years we can see more diversity.
I don´t know what people expect, it´s impossible to be a master at 2 games at the same time, so you´ve got to play the optimal stuff if you want to win. HC is the optimal character in strive, so he plays it. If GGS players had a bit less of a pride, we would also have seen a lot of HC mirror matches.
It´s the same as any other game for example, LoL. You can play the top 3 characters that are broken this season and climb fast or you could play garbage characters and climb super slow.
yeah i totally agree with this and I also like using lol as an example. Any player saying " I would NEVER play yuumi i dont care that shes broken she takes no skill" is getting laughed off the team.
Leffen is a competitor. He did great on Zato, and could have continued with him but picked what he thought would give him a better chance to win. And he was fucking right
@@flowchartk3n yeah. After posting this I researched a little and apparently Leffen is an asshole. But I think it's pretty understandable, a lot of FGC players play that drama-villain narrative and it's nothing new. I personally don't like him, and I actually don't think he's mechanically that good, but he has a lot of good instincts and a very solid gameplan, even if it is extremely annoying.
If anything, the blame is on arcsys for not needing HC before this big tournament. It's not a coincidence that he won't 2 evos.
For as "broken" HC may seem ppl forget he's the hardest character in the game to pick up. If he was as stupid as ppl make him seem alot more people would play him like s1 Sol but you don't see 90% of the playerbase playing him like fusions lab coat from DBFZ. Let him rock, people should just adapt and either play around him /learn the matchup or accept you as a player just can't beat him (HC). Before HC it was Ram, Nago, May, Leo, or Sol showing ppl are always going to complain even if HC exists or not.
regardless of how strong or not strong he is, he is basically able to skip any interaction with the enemy, automatically negates any unique player expression by forcing one specific way to play against him and gets stupidly good return for relatively low risks. He is not fun to watch and seeing him take Evo, played by one of the least liked players of the entire FGC, obviously resulted in people being displeased
honestly there is not much discussion. Most top players dont play happy chaos, but i imagine that it's because they feel more comfortable with a character that has more tools for them to work with. Nago and Ram are great.
But yeah, Leffen is (in my opinion) definitely carried. He's not a bad player, not at all. He's amazing! With happy chaos. He looks dumb playing other characters.
he got 3rd at the previous evo with Zato and won an EU online tournament with chipp
right. but his asuka makes me si ck
Happy Chaos is so hated because his kit is extremely oppressive, he is excellent at every range, punishes the opponent for trying to whiff punish, can convert to a wall to wall combo from almost every normal without meter, has insane meter gain, has multiple starters for big damage combos, can use Roll to side switch with upper body invul, has insane wallslump pressure, etc.
And for all his positive points he only has one major fault, not having a reversal.
In short, most strive players just don't want to see Happy Chaos winning. After all, rooting for the underdog is way more interesting for most people, like when Jiro won World challenge Cup 2022 with Anji.
Its not even chaos for me. I jist want to see Leffen lose. What a terrible person.
To be fair he has yrc and thats practically a reversal for him because hes just gonna yrc on defense and put you in an unseeable 50/50🗿
I think they should make his whole character a zoner instead of giving him good up close offense as well
@@dontgotovideos5560 yeah I know, just didn't mention it because some people just say that it's not that strong, which is completely untrue.
@@M0HAK0 Yeah I don't like the guy very much neither.
I dislike HC for sure, but I give all the credit in the world to Leffen for how dominant he was this Evo.
he definitely slapped some people
Happy Chaos is just way too good. But at the same time, he is very hard to use. He still feels overtuned at times. However, he is still beatable, and damn, Snake Eyez can just pot bust anyone in Guilty Gear.
Phenomenal video dude this message is really salient
🙏
the grand finals was actually boring as hell due to the happy chaos move set in the hands of a pro. wouldve been nice to see him switch to chipp for a few rounds
I thought GF was pretty good honestly. HC is not the most fun character to watch but Leffen plays him very well
You may have enjoyed it but the crowd was dead as hell. There’s nothing fun about watching a full screen lock down because if play optimally the two characters are that far apart from each other strength wise
Meanwhile thirdstrike everyone is carried by ken akuma Chun yun urin don't get me started with alpha 3 and 2 including st. Every fighting game players get carried
everyone has access to every character though
Nah nobody else was playing HC including last years EVO champ that one with HC leff just decided to be a loser and play the broken tier character
how dare he try to win fr fr
U know why I am mad at leffens win. Its because he didnt win on chipp and won on HC smh. How else am I suppose so see my favorite ninja say broken Japanese.
gotta root for bean now
Yes
Honestly don't hate the player getting carried by a character. Hate the devs that made it possible in the firdt place. If HC is broken they should've nerfed him.
Reminds me of league of legends Asol champ. Before rework asol mains were respected why? because it was cock and ball torture to play him people respected you because they can beat you easily, now after rework he's broken you get no respect for maining him. Bottom line is play a dogshit character and put yourself through cock and ball torture to get mid results and walked like a dog by everyone for internet brownie points. You can never win. Play who you want or play someone that does what you want i.e win evo
yes
no
Nah we just hate leffen😢
based
No people have played old games far more broken than any new game out like 3rd strike and won matches look at kuroda for a example no character carried him he was just that good.
agreed
My only complaint is just Leffen, he isnt a good person. I rather not see someone like him suceed. He could be playing Zato or Chipp and it'll be the same regardless. Though Ken winning Evo was Hype as fuck. Props to the birds!
Birbs stonks way up
What a great nuanced take on a topic in a competitive scene. However i will still never respect a happy chaos. (i play so much happy chaos)
For real though its nice short little video you made here, nice work!
🙏🙏
You must mash throw against HC pressure I'm not joking. People are just scrubs at understanding what the character is actually doing
someone get this guy on twitter he just solved strive
No but in every game he picks what he perceives to be top tier/meta relevant at the time, very simple. This is especially evident with Strive where it hasn’t taken much for him to change mains
i would disagree it "hasnt taken much" he changed from zato to HC and I dont see those characters as similar at all. He put in more work than anyone else and it payed off.
"He plays top tier" at evo is like saying someone in the NFL works out a lot. No shit.
@@flowchartk3n Paid* and hes carried
Has anyone even seen the tier lists? I mean i hate leffen dont get me wrong, but he did win with a high tier versus a top tier. There's no carry argument to be made. No one cares about his win because no one likes or really respects Leffen. Thats all it comes down to.
Leffen always dogged on other players for their skill level whenever he lost. *Cough* Hungrybox *cough*. He's getting a good taste of his own medicine.
The problem is this flawed mentality of influencers and content makers who simply can't call out developers on bad balance and design decisions. Strive is poorly balanced game and Chaos is poorly designed character. But instead of proper discussion of balance which can lead into more balanced games the message is always "shut up and git gud". And then you suprised nobody takes Leffen's win seriously? Same was the last year, people were much more impressed by May taking second place than Chaos taking the first. Being afraid to criticize developers and their decisions leads to stale meta, broken characters and overall more frustration from players who forced to deal with bullshit characters like Happy Chaos (and most Strive's top tier tbh).
sounds like someone needs to git gud
Of course a Berserker main would make a video like this lmao jk jk i still feel sorry for huebert...
berserker bros in shambles this patch tbh. I am a monk main now 🙏
@@flowchartk3n i left, tbh berserker was the only reason i played the game and everything that i liked and made me unique from others are gone or watered down.
So i gave the patch a chance and decided to leave in the end.
Looking forward to fighting you in MK1 🤝🏽
@@Rennikz I'll be there 🤝
I don't get to watch live tournaments that much because of timezones, and my schedule in general. So i usually watch the vods, or youtube videos of the tournaments when i got time. But when i learned that Leffen won Evo, i didn't bother watching the Grand Finals. Not because of Happy Chaos, because it was Leffen.
big leff effect
Ngl, the "hate the character, not the player" really leaves my body once Leffen wins.
you are not alone
Imagine HC winning the last two evos and ssying HC does not carry. Leffen switched to HC and Won, Umisho perhaps the best HC switched to sol and did not get to winners finsl despite winning last year. Yet HC does not carry LOL, ok FGC.
I am imagining it. It has been imagined. Awaiting further instruction
people dont like playing chaos cause of how lame you are while playing him so lots of top players arnt on him, but leffen who put the time in has maxed out the broken happy chaos, when we say hes carried we dont mean he would be trash without chaos, but if he didnt have such an overwhelming character advantage he probably wouldn't have won evo
Marvel three was super funny. Everyone kept talking about how the meta had grown and evolved and the game was different since a decade ago....only for a mirror of the same old bullshit to hit grand finals. The more things change...
Unfortunate that KBR and LT didn't make it farther, I think they're teams were more interesting. Jibrill just played ZMC too perfectly
@@flowchartk3n big agree. KBR taking it would have been nice. Honestly, biggest personal disappointment was that rayray didn't make top 8 since he's one of the guys that never stopped the grind.
@@Pandaman64 yeah that was surprising. Iron fist top 6 was cool though, always thought he was such a cool character
Baited video title...
I'm not really bothered by mirrors at high level or even "OP" characters. I never watched UvMC3 before evo, so the first time I saw Zero may cry I thought it was really cool. But it quickly got boring to watch. However that's not a reason to hate on the player. Jibrill played like a monster and was super consistent with it. Its admirable to see how far someone can take a character(s). Even if its not fun to watch. Plus I think that has more to do with UvMC3 than the actual characters themselves. Hell when Umisho won last year, I thought that was some of the coolest plays ever. I didn't care that she was playing HC, she earned it. And as much as I dislike leffen, that's purely as him as a person. He is a god gamer, and his HC is amazing. I was rooting against him the entire night, but he earned that trophy. No one should take that away from him. I'll always prefer players like Daru I-NO cause they're just more entertaining to watch and I find his undying loyalty to best GG girl admirable, but no one should hate on players for using top tier characters. Still takes an ass load of work to get to the top. Noticed how many other HC's were in the top 6? It was just Leffen. Now if it was 6 HC's, or 6 Kens, or 6 Zero may cries I think those arguments would be valid. But they weren't and it likely never will be.
Yep I think the only examples of carried characters in the past have been the scourge of LC21 and the Tekken tournament where it was nearly all Leroy. Even then, the players that won are no less skilled for it, they had to beat the same character
I just really hate Leffen. He played well but I don’t care. As a person I really really don’t feck with him
Fair
id say HC haters just went up in arms cuz of "Leffen's History" we all know he used to be a bad person, and is still pretty toxic at times, but he's never gonna scape haters, yeah HC is broken, but it also needs a capable pilot to go up and beat all 5k+ players on Evo. i dont like Leffen, but he won by his own merits over other "HC pros"...
Leffen is a special case from the rest of these players because he is disliked as a player and not just for HC. However I looked through quite a bit of twitter to try and see the sentiment and there is a surprising disconnect between people who hate leffen because of his smash past, and people who hate leffen literally only because he plays HC. A good comparison is last year when he got 3rd with Zato he was looked at much more favorably.
The evo crowd doesnt really have anything for or against leffen by himself, and although some people do know who he is from smash a very large number of people are just upset to see HC win. Which is silly imo because watching Leffen play is the highest level HC gameplay I have ever seen. The way he plays the character is incredible
Some of the shit he's done happened literal months ago.
He pushed a man to attempting suicide.
I'd look again.
@@PKSunset sources?
everyone always wants to the blame the character or say they’re carried but in all honesty ur just trash whoever wins in the match is a better player. just is how it is doesn’t matter what character u play.
everyone had access to this character, one person decided to put in the time and win
god i hate dsp
I will never stop adding tiny DSP jokes into my videos, its become the most fun part of making these