Ep 31 Sailboat Shopping: Tayana 52 in Antigua, W.I.
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- Опубликовано: 7 ноя 2024
- While in Antigua we take a tour of a 1991 Tayana 52 bluewater cruiser. The boat shows extremely well and we discuss some of the features and benefits of this classic offshore cruiser. At the end of the video I discuss the merits of aft cockpit boats versus center cockpit varieties, and some of the considerations shoppers will need to come to grips with.
These are so valuable, the visit with recap, so it is a window into what you saw, and what you think of what you saw! Thank you Kevin.
Thanks much. An oldie for sure.
YOU SAID THAT PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT YOU WERE RUNNING ALL OVER WAISTING PEOPLES TIME ....WRONG ...I COULD NOT EVER GET TO ANY OF THESE PLACES AND THE DETAIL YOU GO INTO IT IS GREAT ...AND A GREAT SHOW ....I AM ALSO A LAND LOCKED WANABE SAILOR SO YOUR SHOW IS A GREAT HELP THANK YOU
Hi Bruce. Happy to have you. Yes, we did get some criticism, but overall I still get contacted by people wanting to ask about our experiences when we were shopping. We did our best not to waste the brokers' time, but as anyone who has ever been in sales knows, that's the job. 95% of the showings won't go anywhere, but for that 1 in 10 chance (or 1 in 50), the deals pay off. We actually sold all the boats we did videos on, I'm pretty sure.
Great video, awesome information! This was the best explanation I have heard on the difference between CC's and AC's. Thank you!
Thanks so much. Glad to have you on our site.
Hi Kevin, we sent you a private message on here, wondering if you received it? Hoping to connect with you for a moment if possible. Thanks!
I'll check.
Very nice. Another significant difference between AC and CC can be the height/steepness of the stairs. Many CC designs have very steep/long stairs which day after day can become a pain, and is less safe. But aft master is nice in CC. So always trade offs.
Always trade offs. The Jeanneau 469 we chartered last year had a veritable staircase for a companionway ladder. The hatch slid back about 3', and you could just walk down it. But aft cockpit can be that way. Here, on the Oyster, longer run on the stairs comes out of the main salon, so valuable real estate.
I love your in depth explanations. You're one of the most informed shoppers I've come across on the net. Great job, thanks!
A very nice discussion around center versus aft cockpit boats - good informative information, thanks !
Thanks John.
Outstanding video as always. The content is priceless, and you successfully manage any technical issues to positively instruct your viewers. This channel is providing extremely valuable insight into a lifestyle choice that requires serious effort, research and intellect to effect an extremely favorable outcome. Thank you for posting these videos demonstrating the search for your best bluewater offshore boat. No other RUclips channel provides such valuable instruction for this segment of the sailing market. Keep up the great work, looking forward to watching your next post.
Thanks so much for the support. It's a hard topic on many levels, not least because there's always the possibility of being wrong and misleading someone. As I sometimes say, the advice is worth what you pay for it. But I do try to stick to topics and observations that are more or less provably correct. The search is in the process of coming to an end soon, if the stars stay aligned and surveys and exchange rate remain favorable. I'll have a minimum of three videos focused on that boat and the crazy things that have happened along the way.
I love learning from you thanks for the video keep it up ! I'm sold on the Center Cockpit
Center cockpits are great. Not everyone likes them but for interior space they work well.
Like them as well! When sailing in a bit rougher conditions it gives you real good shelter and the movements are not as strong as when being very aft. One of my favorite is Amel. Never heard of Tayana before but it looks really nice.
We looked at Amel, but really didn't want a ketch rig. The boats are incredible offshore products (see Delos on RUclips). The biggest problem we see with the center cockpit is simply seeing the sail shape. You're kind of underneath instead of behind. Always a tradeoff.
I like both designs, but it was interesting to hear the slight differences in how I see things. One of my dream boats is najad 380. Just the right size to be easily managed by one even if the electrics go out and wind picks up but with easily enough room for six people to spend a week end. And even though it's a small CC design, it's a looker too. Many smaller cc's tend to look a bit fat and silly. It goes reasonably well upwind too for a heavy cruising boat. And I agree that the winch and traveller placement is great - up to a point. Obviously no CC boat is aimed for crewed, intense sailing but even when cruising, having the winches optimised for helmsman has it's downsides. Basically if you are lounging next to the companionway and letting the AP or windvane steer, all those things are behind the wheel when things suddenly go wrong. Another thing to consider is that people seem to have different experiences with sea sickness - that is most certainly linked to sea state. Namely because most center cockpits are higher up, so they can feel worse in rolly situations where as aft cockpits enhance the up and down movement. I dunno, I don't notice anything, but I hear it's a thing. And then there is the reefing setups, with pros and cons to both at mast and in cockpit..
Then again, I find myself wondering if such a cruising oriented boat would be fun to own in the long run (as I pick lottery numbers...). Granted, it would be good on long passages, but how many 7+ day crossings would I actually do in a year to validate putting emphasis on ease of motion? And how many of those days would I actually struggle more with the rig being underpowered than the other way around? Then my dream boat changes to something like an arcona. Something that is easily capable of going around the world but also fun to sail ( and with the traveller in right place - right on the cockpit floor where it's not on the way but exactly at hand where it's supposed to be :) ) Granted, spending some time on smaller offshore racers has greatly changed my view about what makes for a good boat lately.
Or should I actually be able to go on a world cruise? Then why not something built out of metal, with internal ballast and beaching ability for conquering lagoons and going up rivers?
I don't know. Maybe I want a boreal 63 with a carage for a skiff 18 in the back.
The Najads are great boats. Not man available in the US and some have really deep drafts. Good choice.
It would appear that you have found your "dream boat" 😛 great video. Thanks for sharing and best from Hong Kong 🇭🇰
Just stumbled across your channel and really like the way you review and explain things. Keep up the good work. Will have to search to see if you have ever checked out a Beneteau 57..
Hi Tom. We've seen a number of them around but never been on board. We looked at a Jeanneau 52.2 once, and it was a nice owners version (as opposed to the more common charter version). But eventually we settled on Oyster and would never go back.
Lots of knowledge.I watch to the end
One of our other subscribers, Myers Von Fossen, bought the Tayana 52 shown above pretty much based on this video. We stay in touch regularly and I can't wait to see that boat again.
We have a 2001 Tayana 52 CC. Your points are all accurate and well done. One thing though, we paid $370,000 for it in 2012 when it was 11 years old. So I think the asking price of $150,000 is very good for this boat at 25 years old if it's in good condition.
Yes. I imagine you could see my enthusiasm for the boat. It wasn't quite the boat for us, but the owners were sailors with credentials far exceeding our own and I think they kitted her out in fine fashion. A great find for an American buyer willing to make the trek to Antigua.
one smart guy not to just take opinions and take time to do his homework, comparrosens , to a list of things him and his wife want without a million dollars, yes people without patience and not a extra dollar to spend to see boats in person instead of internet window shopping, again smart fellow here , love the tours , and info!
Thanks Andrew. The trips were fun, but more importantly we got to see the interiors and livable space. Money well spent, and it wasn't even that much. We flew cheap and stayed in cheap accommodations.
Hello Kevin & Wendy
Just discovered your channel and started to binge watch from the beginning! Loads of fun on the water!
You have a good show I must say.... and I particularly like your explanations on various cruising boat designs.
You seem to be quite knowledgeable in the matter and I share your center cockpit appreciation. I also prefer cutter rigged, longer & stable keels!
I am very anxious to follow your adventures and find out about your final selection.
I am a retired French Canadian from Montreal. I have owned two small sailboats in the 90s, a Tanzer 21 and a Bayfield 25 (designed by Gozzard and built in Bayfield Ontario)
I am also a photographer, cinematographer and video/sound editor...so expect some criticism from me once in while...LOL!
Cheers and thanks for the interesting and lovely sailing and underwater material.
Godspeed!
Hi Andre. If you see anything in the video (we're working on the audio) and have suggestions for making it please feel free to let us know. So far we've done the entire channel using a single GoPro Hero 3+, but starting this year we have a GoPro Hero 5 Black and Hero 7 Black, plus a new Lumix DSLR with 4K capability and internally stabilized zoom. We're available on Facebook Messenger.
Hello Kevin
you might pick up a few tips from my Techy Vloger page. I put in online, precisely for he sailing community!
aberiault.myportfolio.com/quick-tutorial-for-vlogers
I'm a new but big fan of your channel. Did you ever consider an Amel Super Maramu or Wauquiez? I particularly like the Wauquiez pilot saloon 40/41s and 47s. The 41 is actually about 42.5 feet LOA and is on my shortlist. They are high quality boats for an affordable price and are a good compromise for someone used to cruising catamarans.
Hi Ben. The Amel Super Marimu has been made borderline famous by the Delos guys, and we'll soon be putting together a comparison between that boat and the Oyster 485 (hopefully next episode). As far as the Wauquiez, we see them around in Europe a lot, but not much in the States. I have to say that it was a brand I overlooked when we were shopping. As far as full time bluewater cruisers, we've also seen a ton of Hallberg Rassys, Malos, and Najads on our travels so far.
I can't wait for the comparison. Have you heard of Sailing Aquarius? They bought a Super Maramu and have gone through a similar process to you.
I've seen some of their vids in the sidebar, but we so rarely have the bandwidth to actually watch videos. It's one of the bummers of cruising. Internet access sucks and is throttled back at marinas. We get better performance from our phones but it can be expensive.
I have been following "Alfie" on the market since London. I LOVE this boat. Hoping to find the new owners and make an offer when I'm ready. THIS is the boat I want. So happy I found your video!
Wow. I suspect the current owners are pretty attached already. Anyway, I'll let them know in case they want to sell.
Hi, I have a 1990 Tayana 52 AC and my outlets are both 110v AC and 12 volt DC. There are double power points one above the other with the 110v having 3 pins and the 2 pins 12v
Yes, the problem is that the Euro version is that odd looking 220/230 volt setup with 50hz phasing on the shore power and generator power side. The U.S. system uses 110/115 VAC at 60hz. There is no way to convert phasing on a pleasure yacht as the machinery to do it physically huge, hot when running, and costs in the $20,000 range to buy. However, if you're careful you can convert 220 Euro to 110 U.S. and vice versa if your equipment can handle the wrong phasing (with an isolation transformer). From what I've heard, timers and such have the biggest issues with phasing. Motors can run hot or cold depending on which way you're going. 12 volt DC is delivered by way of the battery bank that is recharged by alternator and/or solar/wind power. I'm getting ready to experiment with this first hand (with a 220 Euro system) and see what happens. You have the U.S. electrical system. Obviously, inverters convert 12VDC to 110 or 220. Not sure about phasing there, but almost certainly built into the inverter. The big problem as always is plugging a U.S boat into a Euro marina pedestal or the reverse. U.S. is better because the wire gauge is inherently oversized. Euro wiring will be substandard when converting to 110VAC as the gauge is too small for the current and the boat has to be totally rewired if you want to convert permanently to U.S. power from Euro. Most of the rest of the world uses Euro 50hz power.
We ran into 120volt 50hz in the ABCs. The only issue was the A/C running slow. Converting from 120 to 240 is easy as the amps halve so the wiring is adequate.
Yep. Going the other way the amps double, so converting to 110 when you have a 230 system means rewiring if you want to be safe (or converting 110 to 230 once it comes aboard with an isolation transformer and living with the phasing difference. If you ran your A/C for months on the wrong phasing, eventually the compressor motor would fail. Marineaire sells smaller in-cabin units that are advertised to work on both 50hz and 60hz. See www.victronenergy.com/isolation-transformers/isolation-transformers-2000va-3600va-7000va for isolation transformers.
I did think about a single phase vsd for the AC compressor and fan
There are all sorts of forum threads about this, but the root problem is the phasing. This is determined by the equipment at the power plant that provides the shore power. I say just run the motor until it burns out and then replace it with one that will work on either 50hz or 60hz phasing. I tell people when the subject comes up that it's better to have an installed generator or watermaker or air conditioning system that's broken rather than none at all. This is because swapping out a unit that's already wired and installed is so much easier than starting from scratch, especially if sea cocks and pumps are involved.
"Nav station is the man-cave of the boat." Hah! So that's where it is. Anyway, clearly you did your homework and finally selected the Oyster. Impressive knowledge, (It would be interesting to add a little blurb in the metadata section with the title of the boat about yourself and where you picked up all the info) Anyway, look forward to your learnings, thanks!
Indeed, the nav station is my man-cave. Wendy looks over and assumes I'm doing something important, so it works for that too. I wish I understood the metadata stuff better as I feel something isn't set exactly right. Especially when I see the viewership numbers for some of the new and unheard of channels.
Would you recommend to go to a yacht broker to buy a boat?
The yacht sales business is a strange animal. In home sales (USA), the contract will read that once you've signed with an agent that agent will be paid x% of the selling price no matter what. This keeps sellers from going around the agent to sell privately. However, I often see the same boat on Yachtworld listed by multiple brokers, which I infer means that they only get paid their commission when they bring a buyer forward. I suspect that asking for a showing triggers that, but that if you approached the seller privately there might be some wiggle room in the price. In the real estate world there are buying agents and selling agents, although the selling agent might act as both if the buyer doesn't bring their own. When this happens, the agents agree to split the commission, but it always pays to hash this out before any agreements are made. Reputable brokerages like Oyster Brokerage will treat the buyer well (even though they are representing the seller, and seller pays commission), but smaller brokerages can be less so. I was not impressed with the broker representing Talisman, and in the end wrote my own purchase contract. The sticking points mostly revolved around the question of whether certain systems would "come back up" after 7 years on the hard. The value of the boat absolutely hinged on these systems being functional at closing, and nobody knew in advance how it would all work out. So in answer to your question, having a broker can be a double edged sword. My advice would be to employ someone like Linda Dunn at Marine Documentation, Inc, in Newport, RI. She is the "fixer" for Oyster Yachts when it comes to cloudy titles and whether various international registrations have been done to USCG requirements. That's where things get really sticky ... US citizens buying boats abroad.
@@SailingTalisman thank you for you help I have this information saved.
okay , can you please tell me any opinion on the Formosa? My goal is to buy a vessel I can live on and sail globally through my retirement.
Interesting. The Formosas are too early for my search since I was looking for something newer than 1990, so I know little about them. However, a quick search of sailboatdata.com shows 7 models, ranging from 30 to 51 feet. All are full-keel except for the 43, which would be my only choice given that they likely pirated the design from a Ron Holland version. Ron Holland is a marine architect renowned in the cruising world. Skeg hung rudders are a typical indication of bluewater cruising boats (same with large tankage). Note that full keel boats tend to be very slow, difficult to sail upwind, and are practically impossible to maneuver in reverse, which is why so few of them are being produced these days (Island Packet is the only one I know of). The Chinese build quality is usually good, as the Chinese are known for following the specifications of the plans to the letter. Older boats are expensive to maintain and often the parts will be impossible to find, meaning that an entire system might have to be replaced over the lack of a small part. I don't know what your timeline is for purchasing, but I advise looking over a long period. Boat deals come all the time so don't ever think that this or that is the last one you'll ever find.
90% of monos are aft cockpit for a reason. Large aft stateroom? what do you use more Cockpit or a stateroom where you sleep thus dont use it?
If you're a couple living aboard, you do use the stateroom, and huge vs. large cockpit is a trade we're willing to make. Of course it's not for everyone. A big part of the way I present these things is to let people know what both sides of the coin are so that they don't just follow us down a path they won't be happy with. What's good for us might not be what the average viewer wants.
The issue I was making is that 90% of new monohulls are aft cockpit and manufactures make what the sailing public wants except for cats whose customers are the charter companies. There must be a reason for this.During the 1990's there were a few models of CC that where pretty nice but I find the cockpit on most too small. Good luck in your search.
Thanks so much. Yes, most of the new boats are aft cockpit. I wanted to make sure people knew that this was the case. It's hard to say what the exact drivers are, but beamier designs aft are certainly helping move the market in that direction. I think an added incentive is that much of the market sees twin helms as "modern". You can't fit twin helms into a center cockpit until you get above 55' LOA. Either way, we like the CC option even if others don't.
I’m kinda digging a swan 57 swoop . 1982 or so
Those are sweet. Make sure the interior is in good shape.
There's a 2009 HALLBERG-RASSY 62 in Japan that's 10 years + old and apparently never been to sea ... perfect condition...make them an offer. But seriously it sounds like you want a Swan 55-65 centre cockpit but just cant say it....it's time to come out.
Wow! 62 is a bit larger than we want, but it sounds like a find (depending on price). Trying to stay under 50' if possible.
hi guys just wondering where do we find the info on the HR 62 in Japan Cheers from perth Aus
Hy you speak verry well about sailboats but you now that 20% off sailingwind is good and 80% bad .I follow lots off sailer video's using engine becaurse now wind,I have moody 54 with big engine.Great video.
Incoherent, much?
What does “Sailing at 9000” mean?
Back in the day, we were sailing in Colorado and chartering boats in the Caribbean (see earlier videos in the series). We named the channel because our lake in Colorado (Lake Granby) was at 8990 feet of elevation, so 9000 with rounding. You might think sailing in Colorado would be easy, but the wind comes up to gale force most afternoons in the spring and fall, and half the afternoons otherwise. We failed at filming it because we were too scared to grab the camera. I got blown down in our Catalina more than a few times with the winches in the water. Our current boat doesn't do that. It's very stable and requires storm conditions before things get dicey. Thanks for watching.
oh yeah, I am more concerned with heavy weather
What is that music on the intro clip?
Pioneers/Audionautix from RUclips library. I should have credited but forgot. I'll try to update here soon.
I enjoy you videos, thank you.
Funny now this very boat is here in New Zealand for sale
Cool. I guess it passes the test for being "bluewater".
@@SailingTalisman yes she’s my dream boat, going to look at her soon , will need work but thats half the fun
Hint: avoid following someone's ass around the boat.
Good idea! I'll see what I can do.
Kevin, I even watched it again. I have to say, this tour, if in person for me, would have set off clutter alarms. IMO, the boat was not very presentable, for a beautiful sail boat.
Hi Dan. I suppose it required a bit of imagination to look past the clutter. As I understood and saw things, the owner was a (sailing) superyacht skipper who had taken the dream job of his life, but was now faced with what to do with a wife and two young children. The family was living on the boat, but this was far from what the wife had in mind. Once the boat was sold, I think it would have been delivered in fine condition, as I saw very few chips and scratches on the interior, and his meticulous maintenance of the other aspects was obvious.
Yes single phase vsd too hard. I'll just run the genset!
I never liked the way a center cockpit boat looks..
To each their own.
Cawfee Dawg Let me get this straight, I am in some really nasty weather and everything is going to hell in a hand basket and I am supposed to care how good my boat looks. Please remove me from your list of people I would go sailing with. Get a life.
you can talk a little louder you sound so sneaky
Funny you should ask. This video is a bit old but still I've been struggling with audio for a long time. This is about to change as we've just upgraded our editing software and the options are now much better. Of course I have to learn how everything works, but eventually we should see better sound and video quality. Thanks for watching.
What is your fascination with electronics. Broadband radar nmea 200 networks. You can do much better today with much less money than you could last year
The thing that fascinates me about electronics is that they help keep you from running aground and sinking your boat. Electronics that are even a decade old are way behind the times. I like the idea of a modern MFD or two loaded with updated charts and coupled to a good quality solid-state radar, AIS system, and an autopilot w/ rebuilt linear drive unit. Then use Navionics on a tablet or two as a backup. This is a doable system for a reasonable amount of money. I do not like the idea of using only the tablet or trying to do it on a phone.
You will be better off buying you own then. Old electronics on a used boat have no warranty .If the PO of the Tayana 52 updated the electronics then they are throwing there money away as it will not affect the resale price at all. IT might cause the boat to sell a little faster but only if the buyer likes the gear. Seamanship will keep you off the rocks not electronics.Most grounding today happen while the captain is staring at a screen.Considering electronics in buying a boat is a fools errand and unless considering two of the same model boat at the same price is a waste of time. Just reserve the funds to buy what you want or need.
You You You make this video extremly hard hard hard to watch. Love your content, but I want to pull out my hair by 2:10 , cant handle this amount of bull bull bull bull
Hi Lauren. It's a work in progress. Some sailing, some work, some down time. A bit of this and a bit of that.
BTW, this video sold the Tayana 52 (Alfie) shown and I'm still close with the buyer.
Sailing Yacht Talisman Im sorry, i was not trying to be mean. You have excellent content, and knowlege! I was simply stating my frustration in watching this, maybe the problem is me, but i really wanted to hear what u had to say and it became a struggle. Im sorry, your doing good stuff, just maybe practice on speech or somethin
Will do. Understand that there's no real right and wrong on boat design ... well, actually there's a lot of wrong to be found when you're looking, but in the end it comes down to design choices the manufacturers hope will appeal to buyers. Some buyers want lightweight and fast charter-style production boats while others are more interested in surviving heavy weather. So the marketplace provides these options and I'm always a bit reluctant to proclaim that one way is better than the other, especially since so many people opt for designs that I wouldn't. Hope all is well.
Do u have a stutter?
Take your time when you speak.
Will do. I'm obviously not a pro at this.
Do you have any class? He speaks clearly and plenty slow enough to understand the knowledge he's sharing with all of us.
You twit.. he is very openly knowledgeable, informative and can be clearly understood.
J smith , brainless twat !!!
your ADD is showing , take your time listening