The counter play is already being theorized by Crunch. I hear theyre thinking about delayed popoffs, offstage popoffs, and possibly joining his popoff with cody's but go even harder and start lifting cody up like he's rudy from the movie rudy.
Nobody is gonna talk about th camera work at the end. Like that dude was somehow ready to get ibdw popping off in HBoxs face from the best possible angle. Shoutout to that dude
For people who don't know, Cody literally almost passed out. When he is awkwardly grabbing hbox after the popoff, he's actually holding onto him so he doesn't fall over. It's just funny because him aimlessly putting his hands on hbox made the popoff that much more unintentionally disrespectful and weird lol.
@@MikeLenczewski that’s kind of my point. LGL 60 only in timeouts is probably fine, and I don’t have any problem with HBox’s style here for a number of reasons. But for those that do, if they argue that the limit should be much lower and apply regardless of time, I’m wary that it will disrupt other matchups where this amount of planking is considered legitimate due to how different ledge play can be from character to character.
@@AutokickOff Yeah nerfing the LGL even further is just giving more advantages to characters like Fox and Falcon who are hyper agro. Shiek and Marth are also really good at ledge and it's a core part of their recovery and ability to get back on-stage, I wish Melee would stop talking about adjusting rules to give aggro more advantages.
I love Hbox. He tried being the nice guy and the community hated him. Post Slippi Era, he's embraced ContentBox and instead of being the villain he has transformed into the antihero and it's hilarious. The showmanship is off the charts.
Crying on stream after getting 3-0’d by Hungrybox, crying about ledge grab limit after game 1, and now this “reverse pop off”. I get secondhand embarrassment from this guy.
I’m a big HBOX fan. Sounds like Cody thought the limit was 45 and HBOX grabbed 36 times, so I can get the wanting to check. The reverse pop off was funny, and the interaction will probably show up here and there throughout the rest of melee. Especially the HBOX thumbs up haha
@@luisullrich5253 No, the crying on stream happened when he streamed an online set against Hbox a couple months ago. The ledge grab and reverse pop off happened this set.
After being a melee fan sense 2012 and seeing History of Hbox pop offs. Cody had a mid high tier cringe pop off. Hbox still holds high tier cringe from other tourneys
First time ever i have seen a player be visibly upset against hbox apart from just being dissspointed at a loss, kinda embarrassing, even if i almost never root for hbox (this is about the ledge grab limit, not the popoff)
I know everyone wants to talk about the popoff incident but lets not forgot what led up to it. A lot of you guys probably want to hate on Hbox for his gameplay and grabbing the ledge but remember how bad this MU is for puff. Fox has lasers and can camp puff way better than puff can camp fox. Almost every top player agrees that fox handily beats puff including IBDW himself. Also mango has always said that puff is not that good of a character and he believes that leffen and armada overrated puff by a lot. Hbox is just playing the way in which he thinks is best and there is no reason to hate on him for trying to win. All Hbox wants to do is win as he did in this set and he should not be harassed for doing so.
The only way fox is better at camping is if Jigglypuff is actually playing the game and not just sitting on ledge. Don't worry though, after this showing from Hbox, the ledge rules will be adjusted further. Would be nice to see Hbox actually play the game again, I had just stopped hating him after all these years.
@@DandyOh Shut your dumb ass up bro. Jigglypuff literally can't do anything against Fox unless Fox makes a mistake, this is common knowledge among top players aside from Leffen and Armada. Fox dash dancing in center stage flat out is not contestable by Puff. I'm so sick of people trying to change the rules specifically to hurt Puff when the matchup is already -2
@@DandyOh Puff can’t shoot at Fox from across the stage & add chip damage whereas Fox can do so without even putting himself at risk while also being fast enough to still out-maneuver any ground approaches therefore Fox is the better camper. Even if HBox didn’t ledge camp what could he have done against a character with superior mobility, lasers to counter Jiggly’s neutral, & shine as a situational escape option? HBox is playing the game as best a Jiggly player possibly can in this matchup. It may be lame to some but it’s how you win in this mu. If you want a Jigglypuff main to play the game while still being able to win in this matchup, copy & paste a link to where a Jigglypuff main won just ONE set against iBDW’s Fox. I’ll wait.
@@DandyOh you do realize that pretty much every time hbox just held ledge Cody got a kill off it right? Hbox gained literally nothing from the strategy except pissing Cody off. Sitting on ledge isn’t an unbeatable strategy and it was clearly shown to be faulty throughout the set, rewatch game one and you can see that both prolonged times he camped ledge he gained nothing from it as Cody got a kill on hbox both times without losing much of anything himself, hbox’s dedication to the ledge also led to him getting shine spiked more and early gimps happened way more than normal throughout the set. Fox as a character has it all, he’s literally mr perfect, he wins this matchup 60-40, lasers that do 2-3 percent a hit is way more impactful than sitting on a ledge, (especially when you realize the strat is faulty) especially when puff can just die at 50 from a random upsmash or up throw up air, I’m a fox main and realize that this matchup is bullshit, and people should stop complaing about a matchup they should win most of the time.
People forget about this. In a recent tournament plup literally destroyed hbox by playing fox hit, run, laser, repeat, kill at kill percent. Foxes can do it too, and the puff can't do much about it other than try to make every opening count or bait the kill at kill %. Fox still has the better tools and mobility to both camp and engage.
What is wrong with IBDW…..don’t get in someone’s face like that and definitely don’t complain about ledge grab limits and stalling when you are also fine with dash dancing in center for 2 min and are known as a player for full hop back air spamming…..
@@algar6616 ibdw just repeated himself to make sure he was heard. the mic doesn't do him justice. he had to say it kind of loudly but without yelling which is awkward. it's just difficult for both to hear each other in front of the crowd while wearing headphones and masks. you can see hbox needed to lean in to hear shortly after, and also asked for ibdw to repeat himself as well.
@@ktrkotte8840 respectfully see it a different way myself. His tone sounded like he went from calm and trying to be heard to a more demanding, petulant tone. Also this interpretation lines up with him saying “just camp the ledge for a free win” right after, which is certainly intentional disrespect, no?
iBDW has a 75% (21-7) win rate in sets vs hbox and this is how he behaves when he loses? Between the LGL calling and getting in hbox's face, this is probably the most embarrassing a top player has acted in a looong time.
Honestly I think the fact that Hbox is willing to ledge camp is a sign he wants to win again. He let everyone affect him enough to start playing super agro as puff and he was getting washed for it. But I think he does best when he can instill frustration and capitalize. Obviously he can scrap when he needs to but mixing that in with obnoxious gameplay is how puff has to play nowadays to survive. Which I respect🫡
He also seems to be finding his footing from the spectator's perspective as a heel, which I think is great considering the character he's playing is literally the pink balloon pokemon
This is EXACTLY how I feel. He's finally willing to play optimal, which is what made him untouchable for years. I would be cool to have that back. Keeps players on their toes.
I thought Cody was a solid, calm dude. Damn, he literally stole Hboxs well deserved pop off at the end of a long grueling set. They were both camping, as with any fighting game its about your timings. Props to Hbox for adapting and staying respectful
@anime enjoyer If Hbox had the lead, why approach? The counterplay for fox, at a deficit, in my opinion is just another fancy way to camp each other. Call it what it is, they are waiting for each other to make a move while zoning aka camping.
Younger ibdw would crumble mentally after losing a single close game , he's come a long way but this shit was hilarious. He could've taken the set a few times In the last few exchanges but you can tell he was on tilt after game 1
I am shocked at Hbox's composure. If somebody did some salty ass "counter-popoff" mocking me like that and got up in my face, then started touching me like some weirdo, I would've decked them immediately. Good on Juan for not getting himself DQd though. Also YES, it was a salty popoff, no amount of cope and explaining from Cody will convince me otherwise. His salt was already flowing mid set.
Apparently Cody almost passed out which is why he had to grab hbox to steady himself? A very bold use of the counter pop off tech, but dude needs to hit the pop off gym if he wants to go head to head with the goat
Completely agree. I don't even play puff and I don't give a shit about hbox camping ledge in any match up, but this one in particular I think it's absolutely necessary to win in today's game. Good fucking shit to hbox, been forever since he beat Cody
In my opinion it was bound to happen eventually. IBDW has always complained about sets with HBox even when he has a huge lead on him in sets. HBox was eventually going to catch up to IBDW and once he did his poor mentality and emotional state of play was going to do him in. I still think IBDW can beat HBox no problem but now that it isn't so easy he's going to need to start letting his frustrations go.
@@heartnet40 Even if it was bound to happen I didn't think it'd be any time soon. If you go back and look at their sets over the past few years Cody either smacks the shit out of him or at the very least wins convincingly. I mean just look at their Genesis set. Not even close. I think the next time they play Cody will beat him pretty convincingly again. And the set after that and after than one too. I think this was a rare occurrence
Cody pausing the set, getting a ruling, and then saying "you can't hit 80 ledge grabs, you can just stall the set and win" and complaining to Hbox was so bad
@@panikk2 it’s not really that much of a nerf, I don’t even think there should be a ledge grab limit considering how bad the mu is for puff, but realistically even if you camp the whole game your not gonna hit 60 let alone 80 L grabs, especially as puff.
@@Clashmaster0477 yeah I always felt like 80 was nigh impossible. But 60 I could see happening. Didn't he hit like 45ish when Cody complained? Not too far off.
I get Cody apparently planned the counter popoff but like, first, if you lose you have to take the other person popping off on you (unless it gets confrontational), not letting someone celebrate their victory looks so fucking petty regardless of how annoying you find their popoffs to be. Second, to anyone who didn't know Cody planned the popoff (like myself) I thought the dude had literally gone insane and was going to assault Hbox. I love IBDW but goddamn this is one of the stupidest fucking things he's ever done.
You guys he did it because HBOX is famous for stealing peoples moments with his anti pop offs or storming the stage when someone beats a top player he has issues with.
Ibdw being a baby. The gods did what they could and found a way to win. Armada and hbox went back and forth. Armada didn’t complain he found a way to win. I would stall more
@@OttoIncandenza yes but he didn’t sit there mid set and start complaining to the player who won game 1 against him He complained on his own time where I didn’t have to watch or listen. You consulted the rules. He didn’t break them. It should have ended there. He didn’t have to yell to hbox go ahead and stall more or call him lame. I like ibdw but no one likes a complainer. He beat hbox over and over and over. Be a good sport about it ya know
@@chrispratt3666 hmm. I mean who knows of that was the reason. At the end Mew2king was starting to give him a very hard time to. Leffen pretty much had his number as he figured out his peach and had trouble winning the fox ditto against him. Not to mention the time he tried to go fox against mango. Man that was ugly for armada lol
Same, but also props to IBDW to realizing it might have given the wrong impression given game 1 and ensure to congrat HBox at the end (people say he had been planning it for a month, so if he has just done it and ran away it would have definitely caused a huge misunderstanding or earned him a reputation of a salty player, Hbox did play the player that set though, and he used the crowd to his advantage)
Imagine being iBDW, a Fox player, and embarassing yourself infront of thousands of people like this, literally recreating the 'Yes' chad meme, where he is the virgin one. 💀 Competitive Smash moment
Interesting tech developed by cody. We might see counter play to this in the future in the form of an early pop off where HBox does a pop off before the set begins, dealing massive psychological damage to the opponent at the risk of being embarrassed in case of losing.
Does the camera always move so much in Melee? I’m not usually prone to motion sickness but something about the camera movement in this match makes me think otherwise for once… Still an interesting match nonetheless
"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" I guess. I'm not one to hate hbox, he's one of my favorite top players, but you got to admit his theatrics are pretty clownish, so he attracts a lot of shit back at him. Whose fault is it at this point? I dom't even know lol
17:57 so emblematic of the awful commentary on this set, hbox reads ibdw's soul into a game win right as the higher-voiced commentator is praising ibdw's situational awareness
@@AL-lh2ht in so many words. What he actually says (i think) “well youre never gonna get 80 so if you want to stall the whole set you can have the win good shit”
He's a good player but with how he handles discussions like z-jumping and now this, he just seems sensitive and immature. Like, it's okay to lose a set, it's okay to have the community scrutinize your game play and question your controller modifications. That's the territory of being a top player, grow up.
I am not really into the melee scene, but for what I understood some people are mad and want a ledge grab limit in this match up, but if I understood correctly by the comentators, even this particular tactic is actually in favor of fox against puff and the match up itself is in foxs favor. I understand melee is a spectator sport and since it doesnt have nintendo (or other company support) it needs to appeal to the audience, but honestly, why even have time limit rules if you try to bend the rules to not allow it (or make it harder) to happen? I would understand if it was something that completely broke the game (if this was like, a 90-10 in puffs favor), but it certainly didnt seem like it to me. Heck, some of the best and most important e-sport players of all time were not against using cheesy tactics to win like Justin Wong and even Daigo, complaining against stalling is all well and good, but creating a rule to disallow it seems... unsportsmanlike to be quite honest. If there are other factors that I am not aware (which is 99% possible since I dont really follow the melee scene) ok.
@@the1shrubbery watch game one back, once you do that you will realize that both times hbox prolonged his ledge camping he died as a result. The strategy is purely a mental one as there is legitimate counter play that most people just ignore as they want a reason to disallow slow gameplay.
Plot twist: Cody really loves Hbox and implemented the counter pop off in order to save Hbox from potentially passing out. Knowing that Hbox could risk real brain damage. So to that I say; Good guy Cody ❤️
Lol at ibbw having the biggest meltdown I've ever seen in melee and then trying to play it off like everythings fine. "HAHA i was just joking guys......" you look like a damn fool. He's literally out there jumping up and down in hboxs face like a jester.
Yeah I completely agree, I don't care who you are that shit did NOT look like a joke haha. Just look into those eyes, listen to those screams... it was almost a little unhinged, like he was genuinely angry and trying to start some shit to get a rise out of Juan. He obviously sensed that too which made things even more uncomfortable when Cody tried to be all like "Haha you know I'm kidding gg man love you"
@@matrixyst They are not "good friends" - Cody is so aggressively jealous of Hbox's fame and his ego is swarming his mind. Competitive Smash is breaking Cody's psyche to the point that he's just a mind broken asshole. Kinda sad to watch.
The counter play is already being theorized by Crunch. I hear theyre thinking about delayed popoffs, offstage popoffs, and possibly joining his popoff with cody's but go even harder and start lifting cody up like he's rudy from the movie rudy.
its just bubble theory
@@elijahsalarda6497 underrated comment 🤣
Juans CIA handlers already have this situation handled. This is simply part of their narrative.
fucking ROFL
Lmao
Nobody is gonna talk about th camera work at the end. Like that dude was somehow ready to get ibdw popping off in HBoxs face from the best possible angle. Shoutout to that dude
I was thinking the same thing. How fortunate we are!
Felt like an Office episode lol
The counter pop off technology is something I haven't seen since Hungrybox did it vs armada at one of the smash summits
wait which set?
@@maxpogfrog Summit 3 grands but that wasn't really a pop off it was more like salt
that wasnt really even a popoff by hbox in summit. it not even comparable to iBDW’s.
Idk but this is so legendary mostly because hbox looks exactly like the yes chad meme
@@Insertagereviewer Yea it was pure salt.
Gj cody for saving hbox from an heart attack by countering the mortal popoff he was about to do.
IBDW may have stolen Hbox’s pop off but Hbox definitely snatched IBDW’s soul
I KNOW Hbox lives in Cody's head rent free lmao
That shit was just……. eww lol had me geeking out
just went into ibdws stream and hes been coping and pretending to laugh off what happened here for 4 days straight, it's so cringe and pathetic
@@Khadeezy They're both laughing it off, it was funny tbh.
@@Nuno_Syst3m cope
WOW, the counter pop off, 20 yrs and new tech still getting discovered, id say it branches off the hugs multi tournament conditioning
Hbox and the commentators literally didn’t even know wtf was happening, truly a historical anti pop off, put it on the S tier for pop offs
It's called salt.
I love how stone cold Hbox looks when cody absolutely pops off in his face
Hbox looked exactly like the yes chad meme
@@Hann61669 He's never been more shellshocked in his life
@@Hann61669 "NOOOOOOO YOU DON'T REALLY WANT TO POP OFF ON ME DO YOU I'M GOING TO DO IT MYSELF TO STOP YOU" -SoyBDW "Yes." -Chadbox
@@aguy3082 lmaoo
And then gives him a little smack and walks off. Hbox handled that like a boss.
Hbox pops off so fucking hard that it literally affects and makes others around him pop off as well. It's like the Food Wars bare-chested trait
For people who don't know, Cody literally almost passed out. When he is awkwardly grabbing hbox after the popoff, he's actually holding onto him so he doesn't fall over. It's just funny because him aimlessly putting his hands on hbox made the popoff that much more unintentionally disrespectful and weird lol.
You are so right he was shaking/wobbling.
Respect his sexuality
Also funny because hbox has literally fainted from popping off before
What’s a pop off?
@@jaimevalencia6271 celebrating after a victory
Looking forward to IBDW’s reaction after game 5 to make it to a future “Top Saltiest Moments in Smash History” compilation
yeet smash is already compiling
GRSmash’s mouth is watering
Or the top 5 cringiest moment in smash.
@@ABC-ik9vj wait fr
@@mastercuber6202 he must mean his channel since he hasn’t uploaded in a while
FUN FACT: Zain grabbed the ledge more times in game 5 of Loser's Finals (39) than Hbox did here in game 1 (36)
Leffen and Cody: we'll ignore that one real quick..
Because puff often doesn’t need to grab the ledge when recovering. How many times did zain re-grab the ledge in a row? Twice? Maybe three times?
@@rannynihilius8481 Fox privilege, they love to whine about being the best character in the game.
@@MikeLenczewski that’s kind of my point. LGL 60 only in timeouts is probably fine, and I don’t have any problem with HBox’s style here for a number of reasons. But for those that do, if they argue that the limit should be much lower and apply regardless of time, I’m wary that it will disrupt other matchups where this amount of planking is considered legitimate due to how different ledge play can be from character to character.
@@AutokickOff Yeah nerfing the LGL even further is just giving more advantages to characters like Fox and Falcon who are hyper agro. Shiek and Marth are also really good at ledge and it's a core part of their recovery and ability to get back on-stage, I wish Melee would stop talking about adjusting rules to give aggro more advantages.
Virgin Fox player vs GigaJigglyChad
LOL
Well said
I love the cheers that the crowd was making everytime Hbox was grabbing ledge in game one. You could see him crack a few smiles.
Don't forget about them counting each ledge grab in game 2.
I love Hbox. He tried being the nice guy and the community hated him. Post Slippi Era, he's embraced ContentBox and instead of being the villain he has transformed into the antihero and it's hilarious. The showmanship is off the charts.
he's one hell of an entertainer, for real. Hbox knows his shit.
L, Mang0 better
@@willywomby Imagine thinking Mang0 is better when he hasn't even placed top 3 in any of the tournament that he entered so far this year.
@@michiganisthebeststate1081 fr
@@willywomby your mommas better 😏
Absolute Chad behavior when hbox was absolutely unfazed by Cody’s reverse pop off in his face
absolutely unfazed? You mean he froze?
@@DIVAD291 hbox became that chad meme at that moment
@@Hann61669 the hand on the cheek was so funny
@@yadrianortiz3344 that was funny 🤣
What did you want him to do?
For a second I thought Cody was about to fight Hbox. He was a little too close to his face.
he said that he almost passed out. and if you rewatch it you can see him stumbeling
@@Rizzy_K Cody's got a shot in all honesty, he's got inner rage that would best HBox's flaccid demeanor when it comes to physicality.
Imagine if they kissed
@@Rizzy_K what you describe is not rage.
@@Rizzy_K oh I agree wholeheartedly, I'm just well aware that neither know how to fight, so I choose rage.
The counter pop-off is such a meme, I love it
Crying on stream after getting 3-0’d by Hungrybox, crying about ledge grab limit after game 1, and now this “reverse pop off”. I get secondhand embarrassment from this guy.
Love your profile pic
I’m a big HBOX fan.
Sounds like Cody thought the limit was 45 and HBOX grabbed 36 times, so I can get the wanting to check.
The reverse pop off was funny, and the interaction will probably show up here and there throughout the rest of melee. Especially the HBOX thumbs up haha
This all happened this set??
@@luisullrich5253 No, the crying on stream happened when he streamed an online set against Hbox a couple months ago. The ledge grab and reverse pop off happened this set.
You do what you can to win, he didn’t know the lgl so he wanted to know what it was, he may have sounded frustrated but that’s just how he talks
As an outsider looking in when it comes to Melee, this set feels iconic. I feel like I watched history get made in some way.
Cool to see people out of the scene reacting to this!
Instant classic
Indeed
"Normally when a Fox gets into a bad possition, they are not ready to react to a unreacterble situation"
😆
I love melee. The end sequence looks like a movie scene. Shout out to the cameraman for that moment
Seriously melee is sick
Cody was probably just trynna be funny but holy hell that was cringe af.
No he was clearly salty he was pissed
@Zanio XL Guys its ok because he was planning on being cringe.
@@AL-lh2ht planned cringe is cringe2x.
sadly
After being a melee fan sense 2012 and seeing History of Hbox pop offs. Cody had a mid high tier cringe pop off. Hbox still holds high tier cringe from other tourneys
Can we talk about how the crowd yelled “AYE” each time hbox grabbed the ledge
Or when he realized the crowd was counting ledgegrabs
@2:50 "I do think Cody will not be phased by this, I think he has an insanely good mentality" Commentator. lmfaooo
Imagine every top player that loses to Hungrybox in a crucial match does a counter pop off to him as a running joke
only IBDW can reach that level of salt and cringe, everyon seems to have some shame and self esteem
@@benjaminbravo9884 moky and BBB are pretty salty too lol
@@HispanicatthediscoMTG Okay I can definitely see BBB doing that lmao.
Nah, aside from being grouped into the same mental house for it, atp it'd be a VERY disrespectful running joke tbh. Would not recommend.
@@HispanicatthediscoMTG theyre salty but iBDW is close to 30 years old and acting this cringe lmao
First time ever i have seen a player be visibly upset against hbox apart from just being dissspointed at a loss, kinda embarrassing, even if i almost never root for hbox (this is about the ledge grab limit, not the popoff)
Tell me you don’t know the full story without telling me
@@MattBaker-o7 talking about the ledge grab limit ruling part
@@dongodongo12 And that rule is only put into effect when the game goes to time in which it did not.
@@michiganisthebeststate1081 the commentators literally said during game 2 that’s not true in this tournament
@@abridge2 to be fair, not everybody pays attention to minor rules being changed
Hbox exaggerates his pop offs mid set to get in his opponent's head and it goddamn works lmao
The salty counter-pop off looks really stupid.
Definitely looked like he was having a tantrum at first. I'm still not convinced there wasn't a bit of that in there.
@@zRunes yeah ibdws not exactly known for taking losses well idk why everyones assuming there was so anger involved
lmao IBDW hit an ungodly level of tilt. feel bad but also very entertaining to see.
Lmfao 😂
It's impossible to feel bad for fox mains
I'd feel bad except the things he always gets tilted over makes me roll my eyes.
@@Barry-v3r it's not enough they have every advantage in the game, they need tourny rules to favor them as well with limited ledge grabs
@@Barry-v3r Amen. FUCK fox mains. Literally get every single thing handed to you as top teir toolkit and still fucking bitch and moan. Disgusting.
This has to be one of the most hype and legendary moments not just in Melee history, but gaming history
27:54 Hbox humbled him real quick
One of the most saltiest moments i've seen. Absolute embarrassment for Cody.
Dude will never recover from this
Kody is gonna need some rehab after this mental beatdown. Ayee! is gonna haunt his dreams for many nights to come
Dude is doubling down
plup even said that cody was going to do it whenever hbox beat him anyways this is a huge misunderstanding
@@Rizzy_K pathetic, I'd say
I know everyone wants to talk about the popoff incident but lets not forgot what led up to it. A lot of you guys probably want to hate on Hbox for his gameplay and grabbing the ledge but remember how bad this MU is for puff. Fox has lasers and can camp puff way better than puff can camp fox. Almost every top player agrees that fox handily beats puff including IBDW himself. Also mango has always said that puff is not that good of a character and he believes that leffen and armada overrated puff by a lot. Hbox is just playing the way in which he thinks is best and there is no reason to hate on him for trying to win. All Hbox wants to do is win as he did in this set and he should not be harassed for doing so.
The only way fox is better at camping is if Jigglypuff is actually playing the game and not just sitting on ledge. Don't worry though, after this showing from Hbox, the ledge rules will be adjusted further. Would be nice to see Hbox actually play the game again, I had just stopped hating him after all these years.
@@DandyOh Shut your dumb ass up bro. Jigglypuff literally can't do anything against Fox unless Fox makes a mistake, this is common knowledge among top players aside from Leffen and Armada. Fox dash dancing in center stage flat out is not contestable by Puff. I'm so sick of people trying to change the rules specifically to hurt Puff when the matchup is already -2
@@DandyOh Puff can’t shoot at Fox from across the stage & add chip damage whereas Fox can do so without even putting himself at risk while also being fast enough to still out-maneuver any ground approaches therefore Fox is the better camper. Even if HBox didn’t ledge camp what could he have done against a character with superior mobility, lasers to counter Jiggly’s neutral, & shine as a situational escape option? HBox is playing the game as best a Jiggly player possibly can in this matchup. It may be lame to some but it’s how you win in this mu. If you want a Jigglypuff main to play the game while still being able to win in this matchup, copy & paste a link to where a Jigglypuff main won just ONE set against iBDW’s Fox. I’ll wait.
@@DandyOh you do realize that pretty much every time hbox just held ledge Cody got a kill off it right? Hbox gained literally nothing from the strategy except pissing Cody off. Sitting on ledge isn’t an unbeatable strategy and it was clearly shown to be faulty throughout the set, rewatch game one and you can see that both prolonged times he camped ledge he gained nothing from it as Cody got a kill on hbox both times without losing much of anything himself, hbox’s dedication to the ledge also led to him getting shine spiked more and early gimps happened way more than normal throughout the set. Fox as a character has it all, he’s literally mr perfect, he wins this matchup 60-40, lasers that do 2-3 percent a hit is way more impactful than sitting on a ledge, (especially when you realize the strat is faulty) especially when puff can just die at 50 from a random upsmash or up throw up air, I’m a fox main and realize that this matchup is bullshit, and people should stop complaing about a matchup they should win most of the time.
People forget about this. In a recent tournament plup literally destroyed hbox by playing fox hit, run, laser, repeat, kill at kill percent.
Foxes can do it too, and the puff can't do much about it other than try to make every opening count or bait the kill at kill %. Fox still has the better tools and mobility to both camp and engage.
Seeing all the comments praising cody's behaviours makes me cringe very uncontrollably. What a sore looser cody is, its was so ambarrassing.
This was so cringe ffs
Still have to see it so I’ll just keep this comment in mind
@@meorwss what did you think?
@@juanortiz9445 It was awful… couldn’t even watch the whole thing without cringing so hard
Now you understand how people like me feel when Hbox pops off.
honestly thought hbox was going to punch him LMAO
IDBW thought so too, look at him flinching when Hbox touched his face. lol
Then he be going to jail
I think this situation could have easily ended very differently.
Cody is a weird dude lol. Good shit from H-Box.
He isn’t
@@SRM13 seethe
Fuckin hell cody, that's just embarrassing.
What is wrong with IBDW…..don’t get in someone’s face like that and definitely don’t complain about ledge grab limits and stalling when you are also fine with dash dancing in center for 2 min and are known as a player for full hop back air spamming…..
Ref help my opponent is camping center stage, how am I supposed to approach the middle of the map
I think its cuz of summit when hbox popped off hard ibdw seemed visibly annoyed at how loud hbox was
@@ramongosling5309 The one time Hbox beat iBDW at summit was when iBDW accidentally side b'd off the stage so there wasnt a pop-off.
@@chippukumikyoku7267 oh must have been a different player he did it to then
don’t forget the uptilt spam
Cody got INSANELY GOOD mentality?
The way he said “check the stats, check the stats”
Dude is rude crude and for a bad mood
@@algar6616 ibdw just repeated himself to make sure he was heard. the mic doesn't do him justice. he had to say it kind of loudly but without yelling which is awkward. it's just difficult for both to hear each other in front of the crowd while wearing headphones and masks. you can see hbox needed to lean in to hear shortly after, and also asked for ibdw to repeat himself as well.
@@ktrkotte8840 disturbing level of analysis of that moment
@@ktrkotte8840 respectfully see it a different way myself. His tone sounded like he went from calm and trying to be heard to a more demanding, petulant tone.
Also this interpretation lines up with him saying “just camp the ledge for a free win” right after, which is certainly intentional disrespect, no?
iBDW has a 75% (21-7) win rate in sets vs hbox and this is how he behaves when he loses? Between the LGL calling and getting in hbox's face, this is probably the most embarrassing a top player has acted in a looong time.
*ever
lgl call I think is valid of you feel it could have been exceeded
@@TriopsTrilobite bro, he had it on screen at 36...
The lgl call is understandable, iBDW throwing a fit when the rules didn't side with him is not understandable
It was pretty salty of him, but God damn if it wasn't entertaining
Honestly I think the fact that Hbox is willing to ledge camp is a sign he wants to win again. He let everyone affect him enough to start playing super agro as puff and he was getting washed for it. But I think he does best when he can instill frustration and capitalize. Obviously he can scrap when he needs to but mixing that in with obnoxious gameplay is how puff has to play nowadays to survive. Which I respect🫡
He also seems to be finding his footing from the spectator's perspective as a heel, which I think is great considering the character he's playing is literally the pink balloon pokemon
This is EXACTLY how I feel. He's finally willing to play optimal, which is what made him untouchable for years. I would be cool to have that back. Keeps players on their toes.
I thought Cody was a solid, calm dude. Damn, he literally stole Hboxs well deserved pop off at the end of a long grueling set. They were both camping, as with any fighting game its about your timings. Props to Hbox for adapting and staying respectful
you thought cody was a solid calm dude?
@anime enjoyer If Hbox had the lead, why approach? The counterplay for fox, at a deficit, in my opinion is just another fancy way to camp each other. Call it what it is, they are waiting for each other to make a move while zoning aka camping.
say what you want but ledge camping is ledge camping
@@OedirusPex i mean he seemed pretty humble from the smash summits ive seen him in n a handful of other tourneys.
Younger ibdw would crumble mentally after losing a single close game , he's come a long way but this shit was hilarious. He could've taken the set a few times In the last few exchanges but you can tell he was on tilt after game 1
nah this is definitely an S tier pop off going into the Hbox pop off tier list without a question
I am shocked at Hbox's composure. If somebody did some salty ass "counter-popoff" mocking me like that and got up in my face, then started touching me like some weirdo, I would've decked them immediately. Good on Juan for not getting himself DQd though.
Also YES, it was a salty popoff, no amount of cope and explaining from Cody will convince me otherwise. His salt was already flowing mid set.
I agree. Plus hbox did all he had to do by patting his face like "you poor, poor child" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Apparently Cody almost passed out which is why he had to grab hbox to steady himself? A very bold use of the counter pop off tech, but dude needs to hit the pop off gym if he wants to go head to head with the goat
Nothing but respect for hbox. He's had such a losing rate against iBDW that doing whatever he can to win this was warranted. Good shit hgod
Completely agree. I don't even play puff and I don't give a shit about hbox camping ledge in any match up, but this one in particular I think it's absolutely necessary to win in today's game. Good fucking shit to hbox, been forever since he beat Cody
In my opinion it was bound to happen eventually. IBDW has always complained about sets with HBox even when he has a huge lead on him in sets. HBox was eventually going to catch up to IBDW and once he did his poor mentality and emotional state of play was going to do him in.
I still think IBDW can beat HBox no problem but now that it isn't so easy he's going to need to start letting his frustrations go.
@@heartnet40 Even if it was bound to happen I didn't think it'd be any time soon. If you go back and look at their sets over the past few years Cody either smacks the shit out of him or at the very least wins convincingly. I mean just look at their Genesis set. Not even close. I think the next time they play Cody will beat him pretty convincingly again. And the set after that and after than one too. I think this was a rare occurrence
18:02 You know he risked that rest based off of his pop-off. If it didn't connect that was it. The double-edged sword right there
all that patient methodical play ending with that epic risk it all rest at 18:00 is the best
dang fox guy was kinda obnoxious
Cody pausing the set, getting a ruling, and then saying "you can't hit 80 ledge grabs, you can just stall the set and win" and complaining to Hbox was so bad
doesn't the ledge grab limit only apply if it goes to time?
Nikki DeRaad AFAIK generally yes, but at GOML the ruleset is 60 LGL regardless of whether it goes to time
@@Xsia1 interesting! The hbox nerf and he still won. Crazy.
@@panikk2 it’s not really that much of a nerf, I don’t even think there should be a ledge grab limit considering how bad the mu is for puff, but realistically even if you camp the whole game your not gonna hit 60 let alone 80 L grabs, especially as puff.
@@Clashmaster0477 yeah I always felt like 80 was nigh impossible. But 60 I could see happening. Didn't he hit like 45ish when Cody complained? Not too far off.
Hax got banned for less than that
Truth ^
And Leffen can somehow still compete even after making false allegations and making fun of autistic people.
I think Hbox literally broke IBDW lmao that was hilariously awkward at the end
27:47-27:57 is somehow the most WWE thing ive ever seen
I get Cody apparently planned the counter popoff but like, first, if you lose you have to take the other person popping off on you (unless it gets confrontational), not letting someone celebrate their victory looks so fucking petty regardless of how annoying you find their popoffs to be. Second, to anyone who didn't know Cody planned the popoff (like myself) I thought the dude had literally gone insane and was going to assault Hbox. I love IBDW but goddamn this is one of the stupidest fucking things he's ever done.
And he was also touching hbox in weird ways too, just completely unprofessional.
You guys he did it because HBOX is famous for stealing peoples moments with his anti pop offs or storming the stage when someone beats a top player he has issues with.
@@claymore10100 Not really.
@@stuartalt7418 tbf that was because he was about to pass out, but that doesn't make this kind of behavior ok to replicate
FINALLY a great mic on the audience.
Agreed. Crowd mic is so important!
HBox showed himself to be a bigger man.
LMAO if you think these 2 act like men you're dead wrong lol both are emotional man babies
Why?
@@WattPheasant Cuz he didn't cry like a baby💀
Ive heard a lot of talk about that ending ajd it was so much more bizarre than I imagined it would be to watch. Im glad they're both friends
Literally the Chad vs virgin meme lmfao
We have Wombo Combo kids, we have doc kids, we have slippi kids, next we'll have IBDW reverse popoff kids
Ibdw being a baby. The gods did what they could and found a way to win. Armada and hbox went back and forth. Armada didn’t complain he found a way to win. I would stall more
Having to constantly play Hbox deep in tournament runs broke Armada and caused him to quit Melee though.
Armada complained all the time lol
@@OttoIncandenza yes but he didn’t sit there mid set and start complaining to the player who won game 1 against him He complained on his own time where I didn’t have to watch or listen. You consulted the rules. He didn’t break them. It should have ended there. He didn’t have to yell to hbox go ahead and stall more or call him lame. I like ibdw but no one likes a complainer. He beat hbox over and over and over. Be a good sport about it ya know
@@chrispratt3666 hmm. I mean who knows of that was the reason. At the end Mew2king was starting to give him a very hard time to. Leffen pretty much had his number as he figured out his peach and had trouble winning the fox ditto against him. Not to mention the time he tried to go fox against mango. Man that was ugly for armada lol
Hbox handled that cringe pop off very well. Hbox popoffs are too much sometimes but ibdw was just tactless here
possibly one of the greatest sets in melee history for all the wrong reasons
Hope they are chill, but that was just emberassing and childish, I actually admire Hbox's reaction, I would have definetely insulted IBDW
Same, but also props to IBDW to realizing it might have given the wrong impression given game 1 and ensure to congrat HBox at the end (people say he had been planning it for a month, so if he has just done it and ran away it would have definitely caused a huge misunderstanding or earned him a reputation of a salty player, Hbox did play the player that set though, and he used the crowd to his advantage)
@@crescentryoshi3717 it wasnt planned, My boy almost fainted at the end
Imagine being iBDW, a Fox player, and embarassing yourself infront of thousands of people like this, literally recreating the 'Yes' chad meme, where he is the virgin one. 💀
Competitive Smash moment
Interesting tech developed by cody. We might see counter play to this in the future in the form of an early pop off where HBox does a pop off before the set begins, dealing massive psychological damage to the opponent at the risk of being embarrassed in case of losing.
He did that at Genesis vs Llod
@@mando2975which Event?
We can all agree when I say: These two were born to play Melee
This was so embarrassing lmaooo
"I love that my goat pop offed in a different dimension and we got to see a glimpse of it."
Even if it was all fun and games, that Cody "pop-off" was really weird
Because it was a joke
Does the camera always move so much in Melee? I’m not usually prone to motion sickness but something about the camera movement in this match makes me think otherwise for once…
Still an interesting match nonetheless
I'm sorry IBDW, that was physically painful to watch, like, ... yikes
Would you rather have lived in a universe where this didn't happen? I thought it was an interesting turn of events.
@@WattPheasant absolutely zero chance of that. It was the proudest pain I've ever endured
iBDW is such a weirdo lol
Anyone gonna mention how amazing this set was? That roll read by HBox to take game 3 was so hype. Great commentary as well!
27:45 Is what we're all looking for..
I am so excited for HBox to talk about this lmao
Ibdw's flinch when hbox touches him is the funniest part to me
27:49 I can’t stop watching this . True entertainment
So the ledge grabs are an issue but fox spamming lasers for 7 years isn't even considered either?
The duality of melee, where up throw > up air is somehow different to up throw > rest
Lmao why does the weirdest crap always happen with Hbox
because he completely demoralizes the opposition, causing them to mentally implode
"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" I guess. I'm not one to hate hbox, he's one of my favorite top players, but you got to admit his theatrics are pretty clownish, so he attracts a lot of shit back at him. Whose fault is it at this point? I dom't even know lol
Mental damage
17:57 so emblematic of the awful commentary on this set, hbox reads ibdw's soul into a game win right as the higher-voiced commentator is praising ibdw's situational awareness
the commentary was so one sided i hated it
*Cody sits and spams lasers while down a stock
“If youre just gonna stall the whole set ill forfeit rn”🤡
Did he actually say that?
@@AL-lh2ht in so many words. What he actually says (i think) “well youre never gonna get 80 so if you want to stall the whole set you can have the win good shit”
@@AL-lh2ht 08:20
IBDW has to be the saltiest dude on melee
@@lanoyru4516 You must be delusional if you think that pop-off was to celebrate hbox's victory...
@@stuartalt7418 Trolls of the internet 🤣 IBDW constantly talks shit about HBox. He went onto this knowing he was gonna do that pathetic shit
@@lanoyru4516 hell f*kin nah
I watched this with Non melee fans and my only option for recovery was to say that Cody is a giant man baby
He's a good player but with how he handles discussions like z-jumping and now this, he just seems sensitive and immature. Like, it's okay to lose a set, it's okay to have the community scrutinize your game play and question your controller modifications. That's the territory of being a top player, grow up.
Kid did all that cuz he couldn’t handle the L 😂
See you guys in “The brilliant fighting game community 3.”
6:08 cody put his back into that upsmash
I am not really into the melee scene, but for what I understood some people are mad and want a ledge grab limit in this match up, but if I understood correctly by the comentators, even this particular tactic is actually in favor of fox against puff and the match up itself is in foxs favor. I understand melee is a spectator sport and since it doesnt have nintendo (or other company support) it needs to appeal to the audience, but honestly, why even have time limit rules if you try to bend the rules to not allow it (or make it harder) to happen? I would understand if it was something that completely broke the game (if this was like, a 90-10 in puffs favor), but it certainly didnt seem like it to me.
Heck, some of the best and most important e-sport players of all time were not against using cheesy tactics to win like Justin Wong and even Daigo, complaining against stalling is all well and good, but creating a rule to disallow it seems... unsportsmanlike to be quite honest.
If there are other factors that I am not aware (which is 99% possible since I dont really follow the melee scene) ok.
it's cause ledge camping is over powered and his litte counter play. you're just stalling and no one wants to watch that really
Everyone stopped reading after you said you weren't into the melee scene
@@the1shrubbery It's not overpowered though... that's why Hbox got punished hard for it every single time he did it
@@the1shrubbery it can't be that strong if you can get free damage against them.
@@the1shrubbery watch game one back, once you do that you will realize that both times hbox prolonged his ledge camping he died as a result. The strategy is purely a mental one as there is legitimate counter play that most people just ignore as they want a reason to disallow slow gameplay.
Plot twist: Cody really loves Hbox and implemented the counter pop off in order to save Hbox from potentially passing out. Knowing that Hbox could risk real brain damage. So to that I say; Good guy Cody ❤️
Can we talk about the salt mine that was the LGL ruling
The crowd was like irl twitch chat in this set lmao
Why did he have to do it like that 💀 he could’ve just like faced the crowd or something
that’s what i’m saying, “counter-popoff” is already kinda cringe but it’s made so much worse by the fact he gets directly in HBox’s face like what lol
Hbox wearing the sunglasses so he doesn't have to put the mask on LMAO.
The crowd screaming "heeey" 2:02 so fun
Why did he counter pop off. Did he just get salty
Lol at ibbw having the biggest meltdown I've ever seen in melee and then trying to play it off like everythings fine. "HAHA i was just joking guys......" you look like a damn fool. He's literally out there jumping up and down in hboxs face like a jester.
exactly my thoughts i was wondering if someone thought the same
Underrated comment
Yeah I completely agree, I don't care who you are that shit did NOT look like a joke haha. Just look into those eyes, listen to those screams... it was almost a little unhinged, like he was genuinely angry and trying to start some shit to get a rise out of Juan. He obviously sensed that too which made things even more uncomfortable when Cody tried to be all like "Haha you know I'm kidding gg man love you"
LMFAOOOO JESTER
they're good friends lol you're all overthinking it
@@matrixyst They are not "good friends" - Cody is so aggressively jealous of Hbox's fame and his ego is swarming his mind. Competitive Smash is breaking Cody's psyche to the point that he's just a mind broken asshole. Kinda sad to watch.
Man, what a rollercoaster of a set.
Watching a mental snap in real time
I can already till this set is going down in the books.
God this is so good to see after cody's gotten so cocky about this matchup and being so outplayed mentally is so good to see. HGOD back at it.