THE NEW SMASH BROS MELEE TIER LIST
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2023
- Super Smash Bros. Melee has changed A LOT recently! Tons of characters have moved between tiers, and we've seen all new characters win numerous major events throughout 2022. As such, it's time for me to give you all my new official tier list!
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Игры
Pichu is too low..
And I'm tooo high smokin that good Stuff. Yoshi is the Best!!!
How
@@lionelwashington8419 yoshi is amazing :)
i agree i love pichu
Ness is too high...
aMSa is an absolute legend. brought yoshi from a bottom 5 char to when he initially picked him up, to being the worst mid tier, to being the best mid tier, and now being the best high tier :D
Just watched AsumSaus' video on them today. Dude is an absolute legend!
After ten years
@@swagathan5aMSa is cracked
Very ironic that Yoshi went for 6th worth to 6th best from a single man with a dream.
@@TheGlaiveDominatrus Yes it was after 10 years, but it was literally 1 guy doing it. No one else believed in the Yoshi. If there were a ton of other people playing Yoshi as well, and building on how to best play the character, he would have made it higher up on the tier list sooner.
a low tier only tournament as a side show at a major would be sick
"dont test me"would wipe everyone
It's actually really stall-y and slow and boring
Kirby can beat Roy
@johmn doe yeah but a skilled Roy can break your arm mid set.
Kirby S
Everyone: Yoshi is a bottom tier character
aMSa: Yoshi is a top tier character
Everyone: So, Yoshi so a low tier character
aMSa: Yoshi is a top tier character
Everyone: Ok, Yoshi is a mid tier character
aMSa: Yoshi is a top tier character
Everyone: Fine, Yoshi is a high tier character
aMSa: ...
Everyone: Please...
aMSa: ...
Everyone: Don't do it...
aMSa: ...Yoshi is a top tier character.
I love the fact that melee players well move one character on the tier list and its a big deal
Tbf it was the same for like 10 years 💀
Well its kinda like re-arranging the whole alphabet. There's only 2 more characters than letters in the *(English)* alphabet, so yeah looking at it from that angle would make sense imo.
It’s a big move for yoshi in 20 years. Epic stuff
@@stsalty1788 Literally the only character who changed significantly in those 10 years was Yoshi, they should just stop making these
@@bulb9970 they are fun to watch in my opinion
Guys.
Hungrybox literally single-handedly made the community consider putting Puff up to almost the best character in the game.
He knows what he’s talking about putting Yoshi in Top 10 after aMSa’s run at Big House.
Mang0 played a huge part of why Puff is so infamous now too as seen by his early bouts with Armada.
@@fawfulmark2 Mango left Puff when 20XX had just began. His contributions to Puff gameplay and place in the meta are not comparable to HBox's.
@@shinji136 that's misinformed. It's factual that both Mango's puff showcasing and his opinion about it at the time (when Hbox wasn't relevant) were the first huge influences that made a big impact on people's opinion about puff being top tier.
Hbox for sure made it official in regards to popular tier lists, but regarding popular opinion, both situation are definitely comparable.
@@alejandronavarro113 Being the first is not comparable to being the greatest by far. Mango played Puff for a while and then left her right when 20XX became a thing. I know you mango nation people are beyond delusional, but being the person who first shows the character's potential is not comparable to being the one who for over a decade has showcased the character and discovered more and more of its potential.
@@shinji136 Things need not to be identical to be comparable, and ignoring the Mang0's puff history is irresponsible.
The guy that commented first in this thread said
"Mang0's puff played a huge part of why puff is so infamous now too"
There's nothing wrong with that statement and it's historically accurate.
Why diminish it? Is this a narrative issue?
TLDR: Same list but Yoshi is now high tier because Amsa is insane.
And as per usual Puff moves between 3 and 5 depending on how HBox did in the past year
ICs moved up ,dk and link moved up mario moved down mewtwo and roy moved up a bit too. This is actually the most movement the melee tier list has moved in years
Does nobody else perform well with yoshi because he’s waytoodank? Is amsa just goated or are there not enough strong players trying?
@@undeniablySomeGuy A bit of both I'd say. The same can be said for Axe with Pikachu but the difference being while there is no real reason to logically play Pikachu over Fox, Yoshi is a very unique character.
YOSHI SS+ TIER MATCHUP 99:1 AGAINST FOX, FALCO, PUFF, AND GOD COMBINED. YOSHI NUMBERO UNO BEST DINO IN MELEE SUPER SMASH BROTHERS YOSHI IS BEST AND MOST BUSTED CHARACTER OF ALL TIME, AMSA IS BEST PLAYER. GOD BLESS THE MELEE COMMUNITY IS WAKING UP TO 20YO
Anyone else find it hysterical that hbox is screaming with an office full of people behind him seemingly trying to work 😂
He's in his own glass room that's sound proofed, so no not really hysterical.
Reminder that Bowser has awesome moves! They are so good!
But they are on Bowser
I mean he has moves that are good but that applies to every character in every smash game, they all have positive traits. Bowsers overall moveset is bad, his smash attacks are pretty bad (d smash is okay I guess, but not really), his aerials are generally bad besdies fair and Nair, and his specials suck besides Grounded up b
He has 2 moves that aren’t terrible…
@@vannoah yeah, and one of thems his LEDGE ATTACK
@@vannoah He has like five good moves - Up B, Fair, Ledge Attack, U-tilt, and F-tilt.
repent to God
The sad thing about G&W for me is that he’s actually broken. His options that actually work are pretty strong, but everything that doesn’t work is just so actually broken that there’s no reason to use those options since they’d fuck you before helping you. Because he was never finished, no matter how hard you try you’re going to hit a wall and not going to be able to push the character anymore. Unless some crazy wild bs tech comes out that can overshadow his broken garbage and make his good shit shine, he will just fall further and further down the tier list as the other low tiers are developed.
yeah yeah, we all watched the saus
G&W is broken indeed, but in the bad way
Sadly true, to me being a g&w main sounds like being a ganondorf main when brawl was released
The most exciting thing for me in melee is to see the meta shift in a way where mid/low tiers shoot up in peoples' consideration. What's better than a 20+ year old game having fun new developments by people dedicated to doing what most say can't be done? Aklo's Link looks top tier. Ringler's DK looks indomitable sometimes. Franz is just on the edge of placing top 16 with Doc at majors! My favorite thing about melee is watching the whole thing get turned on its head sometimes by folks who just love the game so much they won't let results and stigmas dictate how they play. It keeps everyone on their toes and playing their absolute best. That's why everyone was so stoked when Amsa broke out. That's why we still love this game.
dawg seeing yoshi do good is beautiful, but wow dk and link meta is what im most excited for, link is quite underated in every single smash game, it's actually kinda sad, nobody has faith in bro, but because the complexity in his kit his potential is always crazy, im so excited to see where the link meta goes, i personally think he's better than dk mario gannon and everyone below, i think hes a tier under yoshi, so I guess thats B- or something, it's just to play link u need to play perfect
On God. For the longest time I was afraid to get online with Ganon and even tho the most optimal players are hard to deal with. It's not a complete shit show to main Ganon in melee as much as I heard it would be.
I’m so glad you’ve kept your heart in melee. Can’t imagine Melee without you.
There's things I disagree with but overall I think this tier list is good. I especially liked "The Line" tier because I agree that the characters in that tier don't deserve to be in mid tier, but they don't deserve to be in low tier either.
I hope "Drake&Josh Official RUclips Channel" is the tag you use in tournament, that would be GOATed.
He’s better than you, so your disagreement means nothing here
@@Maker004 Imagine getting so pressed over me saying I disagreed with a top player on a tier list when the majority of my comment was spent praising what I felt he did right 🤡
Gotta love it when the Hfam come at you with a lukewarm IQ take
25:50 Actually, as a Pika main, I can give you at bunch of aspect of Pichu that are better than pikachu:
- Pichu shield is AMAZING; sheik-tier coverage, while Pika's the 2nd or 3rd worst shield in the game
- Pichu's up-b have NO landing lag (mewtwo-tier) while Pika have LONG lag on it (sheik-tier)
- Pichu's up-b can do two almost-45-degree angle to recover from spot where Pika is just dead
- Pichu's up-tilt range is AMAZING. It can catch very far forward and pop for combo
- Pichu's nair have better range than pikachu; you can nair a fox up-b without trading with pichu, but you can't with pikachu
- Pichu's ledgedash is better (best in the game, tied with Fox)
Now, pichu hurt himself with some moves but it's not that relevant except about up-b (1st zap is 1% but 2nd one is 3%) so you have to be mindful of trying to use only 1 zap when possible.
But his biggest weakness is how stupidly fast he die from anything due to his light weight.
Hot take: I think Pichu have a better matchup against Jiglypuff than Pikachu
How would pichu kill puff, besides using a weaker and slower and smaller pikachu upsmash?
If HAL just change her weight by like 20, she would've probably been on par with her predecessor.
Pichu also has a very long roll, and up-b can auto-cancel
The 45degree recovery you are talking about has some technical details to it, but essentially it's two zips in the same direction
Let's go. We got our own tier. Ten ganillion wins and counting.
Ice Climbers: *exists *
Hungrybox: "Literally 2 small Ganondorfs hitting you."
😂
Hungry box getting ready to make a tier list which is exactly the same as the last:
I really do love ya Hungrybox. You've been my comfort youtuber for a minute now. I really appreciate the content you dish out. Keep it up and stay safe. much love
Even though Bowser is KEKW, it is always fun to see HBox play as him in the Iron Man challenges. The landed hits are just so satisfying.
totally agree especially when he plays zelda too!
I think an optimized GnW would be nuts. Maybe not Yoshi levels of good, but I could see him being considered better than plumbers with his solid spacing tools, throws, wavedash, and Dtilt
I would call "middle tier" "viable tier" and "the line" I would call "mid tier."
Random analogy but I think it works: if they were football teams, the viable tier would be a dark horse for a Superbowl run, and mid tier would be the clearly mediocre teams that won't make it out of the first round of playoffs but at least they made it into playoffs.
I second this
Well put.
Hungrybox is one of the content creators of all time
repent to God
Just always in awe at what Amsa did for yoshi, great video!
everyone saying "Hugs beat Toph" when he got to Samus was really funny to me
I think everyone who complains about low tiers rising in the tier list when people get results, and saying stuff like “yoshi isn’t good, amsa is good” is probably a mid/low tier player
I feel like many low tier players have this collective ethos where they are actually insulted if you suggest their character has strengths, because they believe that people can actually get carried to good results just because their character is good. so if you say something like “I think yoshi is good.” to them, it’s like saying “I don’t think amsa is as good as we thought, and it’s actually yoshi that is good.”
they want to believe that if someone gets results with a low tier, it’s because they are just much better at the game than everyone else
Trippin putting Yoshi that high.... Amsa is just a God
I know that feels good to upload the tier list video and watch the views stack up XD
A new Smash Ultimate tier list soon? Yes please!
I actually laughed when he called the previous list his "final" Ultimate tier list. Like, Melee is getting new tier lists more than 20 years after release, but Ultimate's meta has completely settled after a few years? With 89 characters? There's no way in Juan he can't pump that for content forever.
@@_Uptilt Calling it now, a lot of people in Ult are gonna be debating Fox Vs Wolf relative to each other in the top 10, potentially forever, unless the rest of the top 20 remains stagnant, which will probably never happen. That’s just one discrepancy, there’s probably a dozen other characters that could change by an easy 5 places in a short amount of time.
@@trueblueryu5713 Ultimate's top 5 (except 1 and 2) is also its top 10. So damn interchangable. Lol
@@TheSilvershadow200 Who are the 1 and 2 in your opinion?
@@angusweir1708 Steve and Joker.
The line is the best idea here. Yoshi is the hardest to rank.
Amazing content as always Juan!
I’ve never been so happy to see all the characters I play be considered The Line.
It’s true with the puff being top tier logic, you have to put yoshi at least over captain falcon. It will be interesting how the other top players will rank yoshi.
Sidenote: HBox, you wanna Secondary? _Yoshi is a strong shout, little overlap with Jiggs._
Sora would be a good choice or maybe Peach
getting a team liquid x Honda ad on every Juan video is impeccable
Anybody arguing against the Yoshi placement probably doesn't have a lot of exp in the game. Yoshi has always been high tier potential, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to pick Yoshi because he's actually MORE technical than Fox, but still a worse character. Most people would rather just pick Fox than play a worse character that takes even more buttons to play.
There's exactly one good argument for running Yoshi - so few people play Yoshi, it is hard for other people to learn the matchup, while everyone plays Fox.
But yes, you're absolutely right. Objectively, if you hate yourself enough to play a character that technical, you could just play Fox.
Honestly as a good young link player (falco main) im pretty proud that he’s consistently placed at low tier.
10/10 list. I think you could make an argument for SS tier Fox Marth Falco and S tier Sheik Puff, but otherwise really solid stuff
agreed
old time tournament player here, retired when brawl came out. What hbox is saying about Ganondorf is true. I've had that tournament matchup Ganon vs JPuff. Some guy named 'King' got a good win off me after I had my last good streak. Ganondorf tier makes a lot of sense to me as a former dedicated main. Any pro tournament player who mains Ganon knows if you can catch someone they are yours, but if you get caught your done.
Looking at this tier list makes me wish for project M.
I think Mewtwo and donkey Kong are going to surprise us in the near future
Near future being like 5 years I agree lol
and link lowkey
DK, agree.
Mewtwo?
Mewtwo King abandoned him. And he's Mewtwo King.
Not even going to lie this might be the best melee tier list out there looking back I agree with so much of it
Respect your take on yoshi
I haven't played this game in so long but I watched this whole thing
Loved this
(excluding upb) bowser is basically a character who is built with a lot of moves that work in a kit that synergizes well, except for none of he moves synergize so the best ones are mediocre
older vid and new comment, but Yoshi has the highest tech ceiling in the whole game... there are a number of Foxes playing top level bc it's legit easier to reach. Yoshi IS SO MUCH HARDER but has the tools to be ridiculously good
by minute 7:18
in depth tactics of how Match ups are handled
-__ - **** team four star
THXS FOR the post Puffbro
Hbox - “Here’s who I wouldn’t allow in the low tier tourney:” proceeds to name my favorite/main two low-tiers*
lots of movement in melee, surprisingly.
Tier list content is goated
great list
"There's a new February 9th tier list!!" - next video
It's so fucking funny how many people are telling HUNGRYBOX one of the most dominant players in the 20 year history of the game his opinion on the META is incorrect. Dunning Krueger syndrome is dangerous, boys.
Almost like his tier list isn’t be all-end all. He has bias just like everyone else and his tier list isn’t any more correct than other top 10 player’s tier lists. The whole point of tier lists is that they’re opinionated lol
@@eneruem tier lists are opinionated. But some opinions are more correct than others.
@@thequestbro when it comes to this that literally isn’t the case lol. with your logic, how is hbox’s puff placement more correct when the majority of other top 10 players have her at 3 while he has her at 5
@@eneruem bro I suggested nothing about the definitiveness of this list. Only that there are people in chat arguing with Hungrybox about the META when he was THE BEST PLAYER ON THE ENTIRE FUCKING PLANET for like 4 years in a row.
You lack reading comprehension.
"WhAt ElSe WoUlD yOu LoOk At, HoW gOoD tHeY mAkE yOu FEEL!?!?"
I'm dying 😂
HBox: "Captain Falcon is an absolute gorilla of a character"
DK: "Am I a joke to you?"
I would love Hbox to do a Puff matchup chart!
Hey if I wanted to get better at smash and learn meta game how would I go about starting that?
Its crazy that every year something changes on the tier list and yet the game hasn't gotten a change since release
Link has been my go to MELEE guy... I just love playing with him even against top tier just to see how far I can get..
Yoshi above Falcon is ridiculous and you know it, but you also know that it'll get this video more clicks. #CONTENTGOD
I'm still waiting for some *_OG God of the Internet!_* To TAS all the match-ups and make a TAS Tier List
I think there has been discussions about what a TAS level tier list would look like. I think yoshi parry is likely candidate to put him in number one spot.
As a Luigi main I really think that Luigi could be the next mid tier to win a major.
Samus, DK, and Luigi I think could all do it.
I think doc could too tbh just such an uphill battle@@lunchtreyy
Chaos went crazy in Pichu. You'd think he was cheating or something with how often he killed with fsmash
17:00 this is the moment when hbox turned into cenk uygur
Yo this list is hype
Can't forget Eddie Mexico from back in the day bro
i have a feeling mewtwo will move up some ranks this year
you're gonna have to fix this Rocket ain't done cooking yet
I think Melee would be a lot more interesting if there was a Smogon style tiering system, like... the top 8 characters are banned in Underused, and top 20 are banned in Never Used.
There are not enough characters for that tbh
@@BagelEnjoyer Look at Gen 1 OU, the OU tier has like 10 pokemon and works perfectly, it would work
hunybear actually farms my local every 3-4 months lmfao he’s so fucking good
Can someone PLEASE provide me with the source of Hbox's hat
I think Yoshi is just below Falcon. Thats the big argument imo. Yoshi is better than peach. Basically does trades like peach but better.
I would put Pika in bottom of high or ICs in top of Mid.
Low key, I think pikachu is better than Falcon. Falcon has a cheese factor to him that can catch someone off guard if they're not experienced in his options. But once you understand his options they are limited quite a bit. One perfect example of this is his recovery. I think it was HMW who said that everyone wants to be a Falcon main until they Up B.
It really feels like Falcon has a ceiling to his potential, where as with Pikachu it's wide open skies if you have the knowledge, the skill, and the determination.
No wtf
best tier list i have seen. even axe has won a major
Kage the warrior fought for us to have Ganon tier, and he did it for us: the loyal subjects of the demon king himself
Is this before or after a link won a major
I think having a move that you can always rely on to kill is a lot better in Melee than having sup-par but not awful movement options, and Zelda having ways to combo and kill a portion of the cast as well as always having the option to turn her into Shiek is going to eventually make her higher than characters like Roy, Game and Watch, and Young Link.
Not Mewtwo though, Mewtwo is fucking sick when he isn't instantly exploding.
She also has the best down special in the game
i always thought of that two but for some reason people wanna seperate sheik and zelda, it should be one tier
6:49 He’s contradicting himself by putting puff that low 🤣🤣
6:39 He was COOKING
After many Hbox tier lists, Mario finally gets put where he belongs.
Yoshi might be the new Marth slayer.
Here's my argument HBox: Bowser has two good moves, up-B OOS and his ledge attack.
Kirby- there's nothing. He can't even guarantee damage off of throws.
Do you think the characters below middle tier still have potential?
yes, dk mewtoo Mario and link have so much potential
I actually 100% agree with this. BasedBox.
Besides Falcon, I agree. No matter what the results, there are some objective facts of characters you just cannot ignore. Yoshi can perform better than Falcon at times but never ultimately be a better character in my opinion.
That's the problem with results based tier lists, fox doesn't win the most tournaments but hbox still put him at the top. It just bothers me so much when I watch tier lists and people say "well this character has this representative therefore they are better". I like to think about it from a strictly potential angle, if the character is played with full knowledge of their tools and every other characters tools to master match ups
Yes I'm so glad someone gave Luigi the respect he deserves. We need more Luigi reps
Abate is a legend
the line should be called mid tier, since I think mid is officially just below middle but not quite low in american vernacular now
Waiting for another Peach to dominate so she can move up in the tier list again lol
is yoshi really high tier or is it just that people don't know how to play vs it?
Pichu is the lightest character in the game uncontested, being 5 lower than Game & Watch and Puff.
1:44 THE GOAT
I want to see ultimate puff and melee puff fight each other!
Honestly Zelda’s down special makes her a top tier character
Excuse me sir....Dr. Mario is NOT a plumber. He's a Doctor. Sheesh.
I'm shocked to see Ganon almost mid tier. I've always seen him bottom when I used to wreck tits with him growing up. Never played competitively, but my brother and our two friends played religiously for 5 or 6 years. I know he's slow and clunky, but in a 4 player match up, he was a stock sniper.
Agreed, when he's got someone running a distraction, he can jump in and do some damage
You didnt talk about kirby lol
This tier list is very based and i agree
Gotta say, I really like this list. I’m really glad that he mentioned that Sheik beats Marth, because it’s about time that top players start admitting that. Sheik/Marth is worse than Marth/Fox. I’d even put Falco at #2 above Marth because his matchup spread is far more consistent, but I wouldn’t fight anyone on that since I’d say they are pretty even tier-wise. Marth has weird problem matchups like Pika and Yoshi, as well as complex matchups with bad characters like Ganon and Link that can overrun less experienced players, and of course he loses to the easiest to play character in the game. Meanwhile Falco can just invalidate every character below Puff with laser, and his worst matchup is only debatably losing with Marth.
There are two other characters that I think were too overvalued in this list, and those are of course Yoshi and Roy. Granted I don’t think Yoshi was TOO highly ranked, but higher than Falcon might be a stretch. I’d personally also put him lower than Peach for reasons I’ll explain later, but I think that below Falcon is the max lol. The other one is Roy, and this was a GROSS over-ranking of this garbage character 😂 Zain had two things going for him as DTM: Matchup inexperience, and being friggin Zain. Once people got used to his Roy, they stopped losing to it. Zain would win neutral 4-5x as much as his opponents to win games with Roy, and that was REQUIRED. If you watch his sets and count how many neutral interactions he needed to kill per stock, it was most often 5-10. Roy’s frame data is still some of the worst trash in this game, and other than d-tilt>f-smash on fast-fallers, he has no kill confirms. Every character in this game has combos and kill setups on spacies and Falcon tho, so he isn’t special there at all. His entire gameplan is just d-tilt and grab in neutral and hope to start a punish, and if he whiffs he will just get knocked off stage, where his fast falling speed and terrible up-B make him a dead stock every time. His aerials are all trash (though up-air and n-air have SLIGHT utility at ridiculously high percents), his d-tilt is his only useful tilt, and his smashes are all ridiculously punishable since he’s just a slower Marth with a programming error that forgot to shift his hitbox timings accordingly. He’s easily bottom tier, and the thought of Roy being better than MewTwo, Game&Watch, and ESPECIALLY Young Link is too funny.
Overall I like this list, but I think Hbox didn’t really consider matchup spreads, and I think there were a couple things that are resolved by the most recent matchup spread chart. In fact, I honestly think that the 2022 SSBM Community Matchup Chart is the perfect representation for the tier list, and this is the order of character ranked on that list by the average of their matchup spreads:
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Marth
4. Sheik
5. Puff
6. Falcon
7. Peach
8. Yoshi
9. Icies
10. Samus
11. Pika
12. Luigi
13. Doc
14. Ganon
15. Link
16. Young Link
17. Mario
18. DK
19. Pichu
20. G&W
21. MewTwo
22. Roy
23. Zelda
24. Ness
25. Kirby
26. Bowser
I spaced them with where tier separations should be IMO, and honestly this looks like a nearly perfect list to me. I feel like it has many parallels to Hbox’s list, like placing Sheik higher than Puff, placing Yoshi higher than in the past, and other minor things that make them more similar to each other than the current 2021 tier list.
Honestly, this might be the top player tier list that I agree with the most. Even the things that I disagree on are things that I’d consider negotiable for the most part. So yeah, great list from a great player 👌
great message and reasoning read it all, but my takeaway is your a link believer, i love to see it 🔥🔥🔥
I want to be the AMSA of Luigi
Poor Ganondorf. The only time he's ever performed any better than his debut was in fan modded version of the series (project m), afaik. One of the most villainous... and yet can't throw down mano e mano