Will the Varg Replace Combustion?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Big thanks to Outlaw Motorsports in Kamloops for the use of all three of these bikes.
It was interesting to ride these back to back to see where they each fit into the market.
You can find the @crosstrainingenduro video here: • Stark Varg review: wil...
The @TractioneRag video will be out soon. I'll post the link once it's up. 
Хобби
By far the most informative video I've seen on the Varg. Great work Chuck.
I own a stark, super fun. My favorite is trying big hill climbs. When I run out of steam, I just chuck it and rest on the hill. Super cool, no wheel spinning, no gas leaking, I can rest and have a look at my progress. Don’t have to worry about re start. The hand brake is fabulous for a shorter guy like me to re mount on a tough hill. I have tried and succeeded on stuff I won’t try on my beta two stroke or my ktm 4 stroke. I have changed to a gummy on the rear and it helps greatly, just like on my other bikes. I use the map switch to modulate engine breaking, same horsepower, more like 2 stroke in the woods for flow, back to big engine braking down large hills like a 4 stroke. All in seconds. Neat. I am lucky because I live in a great riding area and am always close to a charge. Long day trips with no stops at a home base are still reserved for gas bikes. I will defiantly be off loading the 4 stroke and keeping the 2 stroke and the Stark. It is that good. I have over 30 hours on it so far and zero issues, and other than a 15 min gear oil change, just grease and go. .. lots of fun to puttz about the property in low hp mode doing trail maintenance. Barely use the 4 wheeler now.
smart
nice review, thanks for taking the time.
Yes it can replace a gas bike, for some like me. Great review. I’ve owned my Stark for a little over two months. I have a little over 25 hrs of ride time on it. I think you nailed your review. I also own a 300 XC that till now I considered the best dirtbike I’ve ever owned. I’ll comment on that later in my comments.
I totally agree that the Varg is not great in the super tight technical stuff. You feel its weight and the suspension is too stiff. It’s great In the flowy single track that ride most of the time. I typically ride for 1-3 hrs so the range is fine for me. For whatever reason, the Varg just makes you smile and giggle. The power and torque is intoxicating. It also allows you to ride where you can’t on ICE bikes. I just got permission (only because it’s electric) to ride on a virgin piece of land that is awesome.
I already had a LHRB on my KTM so it wasn’t an issue on the Varg…I actually have both the foot brake and LHRB on the Varg so my buddies can ride it and be comfortable.
As far as replacing a gas bike goes…I hadn’t ridden my KTM at all since I got the Varg so I rode it last week. To me, my KTM felt so un-refined and antiquated and loud which is crazy because it’s actually very quiet for a gas bike. The throttle response felt so slow compared to the Varg and it felt incredibly slow compared to the Varg.
I literally cut my ride short, took some pics of the KTM 300 XC and listed for sale. I know it sounds crazy but I simply don’t see ever using it for the type of riding I do. As I stated earlier, till the Varg, my 300 was my favorite DB I’ve owned.
So... you like it?
Good point, I'll personally keep both. I love my yz450f 2023, and my varg until now is second on the list even if i see more pros than cons.
Haven't ridden my varg long enough yet to hate the gas bike but who knows, maybe after 20h like you.
For me the best bike would have been my yz450f 2023 light feel with the ebike varg reaction engine, but i am still ok with the noise, vibration and gears on the gas bike.
I think what made it worse for me I think is that I exclusively rode the Varg for almost 30 hrs now and didn’t touch the KTM for nearly 3 months. I’ve become so used to the instant power and torque, it’s intoxicating. I’m sure if I rode the KTM regularly it wouldn’t so unsophisticated compared to the Varg.
Thanks for a well balanced review, logical and well reasoned discussion seems to go out the window the minute discussion shifts to anything electric.
I haven’t ridden one but I think you’re right on about how rapidly the innovation around these will come in, but riding styles will evolve just like every other time a major technical shift has happened (2 to 4 stroke, etc.)
Thank Chuck! Great review! I’m excited to have a go one day!
Wow
I don’t know a lot about e bikes.
Surprised & impressed
STARK needs to make an enduro/street legal version
@stark__future
Does anyone know how the battery performance is in cold climate? Not enough difference to make a difference?
It seems to me like the platform would do well as a street legal enduro with some lights on it and changes to the suspension.
Great review Chuck
Man, they can come up with a 'virtual clutch' real easy, if they really want to. The torque being always there, the 'virtual clutch' would be like a 'throttle inhibitor'
I'm sure there is a lot coming. Traction control, wheelie control, power curves, etc.
there are a few problems that most people dont understand. bldc motors do not make good low end power naturally, they exceed their safe limitations to do so. now a clutch would be really useful since giving the bike full throttle at near zero rpms to lift the front tire is EXTREMELY bad for the motor and its also hard on the esc. exceeding its safe current limitation creates heat exponentially and the permanent magnets in the motor also degrade extremely quickly when subject to such powerful magnetic fields. a clutch would make it far more controllable AND it will make the bike have a much longer lifespan before breaking. the other issue is the battery, just like you said charging slowly is the best way to keep batteries happy. but you also have t make sure that you dont bring it below 20 percent charge or above 80 percent charge, if you quick charge your bike from zero to full in under two hours regularly you will be lucky to see 250ish charges out of your battery. these are rough estimations based on the samsung 50s (LiIon) and samsung 40T (LiPo) 21700 cells but quick charging in under 2 hours, the battery pack reaching 45ish celcius (which is a very generous estimation for battery temps while riding), and relativly high discharge rates you find yourself looking at a 25 percent degration after around 200 charges. this only gets worse with higher temps (which most people will undoubtedly experience) and higher discharge rates such as mx riding.
The battery needs to be able to swap as fast as a fill up
Spare battery a snip at 7 k😂
Thanks for the review. I heard the Enduro version will get a clutch, I'm waiting for a street legal version and hope we get solid state batteries fast when available -> 3x range
I am older and fire roads and more medium trails are my thing along with some street riding so I think I am going with the Zero FX cuz even the stark cannot do 80mph on the freeway
@@LarryRichelli The Zero is nice, super smooth and comfy seat. Maybe just not as powerful. Both have shitty range anyway
Great video, thank you! I can’t imagine how to manoeuvre a dirtbike without clutch, the EM trial bikes have one, I’m surprised the varg doesn’t. I totally agree re the rear brake, it must be great to have it at your fingertip for all the reasons you mention… I’d love to be able to try that
The upgraded battery ultrabee is much better for trails and enduro. Way lighter and nicer to flick around
Stark is supposed to update the app to allow you to change the curve of the map, so yes today the gas bike 250 on grass wins, but maybe after the update we'll be able to fix that
You forgot to talk about 2 benefits:
You can ride in your back yard without annoying your neighborhood
You have 2 yeaes warranty where you have zero on other brands.
For having issues on battery and engines, stark replace the full part but you have to assemble it yourself or maybe at the dealer with cost.
Yeah why not there's no tracks in tucson and only maybe 2 moto x tracks left open in Arizona it's definitely worth considering
I'm riding surron ultra since last year and of all the bikes I tried on the technical trails we have here Vancouver area I think this one is the best for me by far. But it seems electric motion came up with better alternative - 2024 escape. It even has clutch option
Started riding at 5 yrs. old on a two stroke supermini. At 12 I was racing a Honda XR75 blown out to a 110. At 14 I was racing on a CR 125...and went from there. Hearing the bike, smelling the gasses, feeling the clutch, having to work the bike due to the way the engine treats you is what got me hooked and what keeps me hooked. I've had so many bikes in my lifetime I can't even count them and currently have 4 KTM newer bikes. I can't imagine trying to teach my kids how to ride a motorcycle without the combustion engine sound, smelling the gasses and learning and feeling the clutch. I have a hard time even watching EV related videos and the only reason I watched this one is because it's from Chuck Harder. Great video as usual! If EV bikes do take over kids will never know what they completely missed with combustion engine motorcycles.
They won’t know what they missed and they won’t care ! Because these are far better to ride in every way . Having to mess with a clutch in gears only gets in the way of the riding experience it doesn’t enhance it ! I can’t tell you because I’ve ridden bikes for 36 years now , and getting on the varg is WAY more fun ! You can get your technique right without doing a constant dance with your feet and having to think about engine revs . You can ride faster , more efficient and nail corners like never before . It’s like driving a Porsche 911 and comparing it to a manual mustang . Sure both are fun and there’s some nostalgia with shifting gears but you’re going to want to drive the 911 every time
As an expert level woods rider I was getting about 1.5 hours at 40hp. Which isn’t good enough. The bike is amazing tho
Only way we will hear an accurate assessment of the Stark is to pay Chad Reed or Eli Tomac to do a review. Still I put stock in Chuck’s videos. TY Chuck!
I appreciate it but I have to disagree. Pro opinions are valuable but the rest of us have far different needs than the ultra fast guys.
Their needs in a bike is not even close to the needs of the average rider !
We ride with a Stark Varg owner out in the desert trails. He gets about 30 to 35 miles of our riding. We go 50 to 70 miles every ride. So we say goodbye to him when he hits the 15 mile mark, because he has to return and go the other 15 miles to make it back. Not that great.
Open fast desert is literally the rowdy environment for the cage , when you look at the bike for why it is it’s pretty damn impressive really . It’s an electric motocross bike ! Think about that .
Keyboards would look like wack a mole games 😂😂😂
Great aspect on the bike. Don't know where you got the $10,000+ battery replacement number from. I ride my Varg in rocky technical terrain here in Arkansas and I concur with most of your views on the bike. I will say anything less than REAL hard enduro (because that's a notch above me) the Varg shines, especially on hills. I enjoy a clutch out on the trail but the no clutch motor of the Varg covers up those little clutch boo-boos that sometimes do happen.
I got the battery cost from the dealer. It’s Canadian pesos though. I should have clarified.
Is there any official information that the battery is in fact a lithium polymer? I always assumed it was a LFP, surprised to hear it is a LiPo (for the quoted safety considerations).
I asked the dealer specifically.
When I first got my varg for first half hour I was looking for foot rear brake and a gear shifter , but never once looked for a clutch . In your mind you think you will but I don’t miss a clutch one bit , i ride motocross and tight steep mountain trails on mine .
I expect this will vary by the individual, but I missed the clutch more as I rode it longer. Only in the technical terrain though. Logs were a real challenge to execute smoothly, as you could tell in the video.
@@ChuckfromTrueTech I find with logs to help lift the front wheel you can’t just rely on throttle , you have to lock knees to the bike and lean back with a tight grip on the seat and it will pop up . I have and you can use rear brake on approach to squat the bike reach to unload and lift up . I got used to it pretty fast but yeah it’s the one single time that a cluch would Probbaly make it a bit easier .
Chuck! when we getting that Lectron video? Thanks for all the great videos!
I’ve got one in the works. Squeezing it into springtime shop work.
@@ChuckfromTrueTech I'm dying to know what you think. If it's worth it over a well jetted Keihn
So currently the Varg does not have traction control besides the DIY map switch mock "gearing" ? Good idea BTW!
It does have traction control in its software but it’s not driver adjustable yet. I can definitely feel it “control wheel spin “ to some degree when it’s in the higher HP settings. For reference, my friend has an Alta and that has a lot more wheelspin even though it has a lot less power. Stark claims we will soon be able to customize the traction control in the maps page of the app.
@@karlgutsche1601 thank you, helpful insight. I'm a mechanical engineer by schooling and love riding slow technical terrain so I'm very interested in how they're doing this.
The Varg has replaced my gas bike. I won't ride a gas bike anymore, less power and more work.
A spare battery is only $7k, the whole bike is not much higher than $10k 😆
7k for a battery, looks like a bankers bike😂
He is talking about CDN.
there bringing some sort of subscription out for it
Only for race mode and extra engine features .
@@Ozfreerider2504 this is why people don't like electric vehicles, you will owned nothing and be happy bullshit,
@@Ozfreerider2504 pure greed
What? 10k for a battery 😅 thats just insanity
E curious :D
A: NO... That is all... Hippies...
I'm guessing with that much power and wheel spin were going to see faster deterioration and erosion of single track trails.
It needs to be street legal in Europe!!
It will be, my dealer said that 😌 wait some months!
@@jeremyweller8392 Oh, interesting! 😃😃
So my honda 250 is faster😂
No I don’t care I will build my own bike if they ever stop combustion engine bikes, I’ll even figure out how to make my own gas if I have to
You’re being a bit dramatic aren’t you ? Some noise really matters to you that much ?
@@Ozfreerider2504 I don’t think I am sure those electric bikes are Kool but the electronics are a pain
@@rezkidgamingyt4725 they are a “pain” wtf does that mean ? Why even comment if you don’t ever offer an explanation ….🤷♂️
@@rezkidgamingyt4725does your combustion bike not have electronics ? Doesn’t it have an ecu?
@@Ozfreerider2504 yes it does I’m just being dramatic to each an all there own brother . I for one will never buy one I don’t care how cool they are or how much horse power they have I’m old school and that’s precisely it the title of this vid motor bikes will always be around as long as we older men are around teaching kids about combustion engines . No way will that happen
Unless the varg is reduced to maybe 50% of the rip-off that it is, then yes perhaps. Right now you can buy two CRF250 and something like three CR 125 so the price of one varg. As long as gas engines are available for the lower middle working class electric will not surpass them. The idea, the premise is absolutely stupid and ignorant from manufacturers of electric vehicles
I literally addressed this in the video. The cost over time is most likely cheaper.
@@ChuckfromTrueTech 🤣 Based on what research? Sorry, but NO way will be maintaining an Electric motor and battery (including replacement) will ever be cheaper than a 125cc or non performance 250cc. In your pipe dreams son.
Sounds like the dentists office, super ugly and minimal range. No thank you.