While a joke, that may very well have a lot of truth in it. People don't get rational or mature cause they get older. They get rational and mature because of changing environment (from teen to working adult, then to family man and so on). Most cultivators aren't burdened with much of that except for simple "do tasks for sect suitable to your cultivation level and don't mess with the big dogs". Stuff that even 6 yo kids face in their everyday life. And most often their "maturing" is about realizing that bigger fist wins and might makes right. So asides not pissing off the big dog, they indeed have little incentives for acting like sages and thinking their actions 10x over before they do act.
I often find it ridiculous how often time MC says something that might be obvious to a 10-year-old child and the clan elders think it's some kind of amazing revelation or grand strategy. Like they are hundreds of years old, but their mental capacity is ofter so dumb compared to the things they can do (study complex formation and stuff.) There are only a few novels that correct these mistake. For example RMJI have really great villains that have plots behind plots that are based on good logic and MC has to outwit real masters of strategy.
Yes, RMJI is full of old demons, that really "act their age." God of slaughter is another one, but the story is not that meticulous/complicated compared to RMJI, but there is a constant atmosphere of fear and pressure from the old demons with higher cultivations.
One thing I think is worth considering, often cultivators never really grow up. There are always seniors, the next cultivation level, that next level of information about the world they don't know yet because they haven't reached the level of power to know. Example using Meng Hao, by the time he joins the Reliance Sect, he is surprised to learn immortal cultivators even exist. Then he learns about the continent. Then the other continents. Then the planet. Then the solar system. And so on and so forth. They never reach that point where they stop discovering huge revelations, like they are permanently stuck in a cyclic coming of age novel/movie.
I appreciate that, even if most the people around Meng Hao are consumed by their extreme vices... You see, a Master, as I've been told by my instructors in my martial system, is only a "True Beginner." Mainly, even as a master, you are practicing the basics day in and day out. The only differences are your concepts of "success" and "mistake."
And the thing is that the powerfull people are always described at first as rare, because it's hard to reach the high levels, but then the more powerfull the chracter gets, the more people are who are powerfull powerfull. Why not make them realy rare, so that growing steonger really is an achievement and not just who ia richer wity more resources ?
If we wanna be accurate of the situation, if I know that I can cultivate, which would make me live extremely long, I won't give two shots about anything, I'll be immature my whole time
In my reading, I tend to see the Immortals acting in methods similar to Greek, Roman and Norse gods. Life is much more about the moment and doing things based on the Heart's Desire rather than what mortals consider to me normal behaviour.
I wonder if its biological, as we age, we start to calm down as the body reacts to not having as much power, stamina and durability. But a cultivator is always at their peak, needs no food or water, never gets sick and can accomplish things by themselves that an army of mortals couldn't. If you live eternally, leaving behind a legacy or making a family might become far less important, because you can just reap the fruits of whatever you started eons ago. And if you aren't immortal yet, you will either be obsessed with getting immortality for your sake or to protect your life and the ones you love from going squish by the whims of a foul tempered cultivator. It could just be the brain's adaptation to these radical changes in the person's life, keeping them witty and stubborn so they aren't destroyed on the path to the next level.
To me, it makes sense given the type of culture they live in. Whether we like it or not, the type of world where being able to kill someone for simply offending you is very indulgent I'll say and supports the growth of arrogant and prideful personalities. Even to the point that they simply don't care if their logic makes zero sense.
The first question is how we define emotionally mature? When we defined that, are we sure that most or even all adults in society fullfill that criteria? Im pretty sure the hostile or sheltered Environment depicted in most Xianxia and Xuanhuan novels are not really helpful for developing what we call emotional maturity.
Actually, the hostile AND sheltered environments most encounter are very conducive to emotional maturity, because they do not shirk from laying responsibility for their own actions at their feet, and force self-reliance, even in sects that carefully groom their students for the future, as they know that if they just give them everything that they'll distort their dao and cut short their ascension. Every dao, in the end, is just another path through life for those seeking enlightenment and freedom to follow that path until they no longer can. The problems usually arise within both of those environments when it comes to interaction with mortals and with opposing daos, causing even those who are typically tolerant to become ruthless in dedication to their chosen path.
I think your comment is well thought out but I am not quite sure we use the same defintion of maturity. In novels, or at least the novels I remember, the most sheltered are normally the most "childish" from my definiton. If we you want further discussion we need to obtain a common sense of the word mature, otherwise we wont understand the best arguments of the other person.
There's a difference between being sheltered and being spoiled. You're conflating the two concepts together. Many sheltered immortals turn out just fine, though their knowledge of the wider world is lacking, whilst many unsheltered immortals turn out poorly because they were otherwise spoiled by a higher-up within their sect, leading to grandiose arrogance. Take a look at the Reliance Sect from the very beginning of ISSTH, for example. Meng Hao and all his compatriots were bottom barrel, forced to rely on themselves as much as possible, with friendships being dissuaded by the sect rules. There were a fair number of spoilt brats still that had caught the eye of a master who gave them some limited protection, so they messed with anyone weaker than themselves, while in other cases they grew as people just fine (see: his waifu).
That's a lot of food for thought. Honestly speaking, after reading Xianxia I find I enjoy it a lot more than western novels overall. I don't need characters to be overly mature, but I I expect important ones to be. As far as suspense of disbelief goes, I do believe at least 75% of that is the responsibility of the author. And wow, you calling yourself fat is hilarious. You should probably just say you're not in shape :p
As a Chinese who loves to read xianxia manhua i have some thoughts here (they may not be right) i believe the elder act young could be because they have join in to dao （道）similar to 天人合一 and in taoism a person who got dao could 逍遙 xiaoyao as 莊子 zhuangzi (one of the iconic philosopher of taoism) had mentioned in one of his writings. Thus they had given up their desires 七情六欲 and become carefree so they would seem like they are free like a child. another reason could be because of them having to become the immortal or saint?（ 仙/聖人/君子？）As mentioned in 老子 laozi( another iconic philosopher of taoism)'s daodejing/laozi (道德經/老子) the person who become the saint(?) (ie the ideal person which meets daoism principles(being the same or join into dao )) would be as pure as a new born 反樸歸真（常德不離，復歸於嬰兒） So the elderly who became immortal assuming that they have become the ideal person would act like a child. However i am no expert in taoism so some of the ideas i have written could be misinterpreted by me but at least as a native Chinese i have never thought of the problem that these elders who act young is strange But i do find conflict in the mc always try to fight the fate or tiandao when taoism always mention the idea of becoming the same as tiandao 假如你也是中國人 不放留個言 看看有多少人在看 嘿嘿
This is kinda similar to my idea that the cultivation renews their bodies, including their neural pathways...which might effect their mentality or how they perceive the world. My idea was more pseudo-science based, though.
There are also the philosophies of Individualism expressed in one's dao-heart where you act according to yourself rather than your super-ego all the time. Following the laws of the world means you live in that world, but if you follow in your own law then what world do you live in and why does it matter who's expectations you live up to when you have the power to lord over others?
Many novels actually point that out directly. They call this emotional aging "heart realm". And most cultivators never reach even 1st level in those. At the same time according to descriptions of those realms, most adults in our world reach 2-3rd level some even more. So those cultivators are really just kids or at best young adults. As for why they are so inferior to normal humans/us. Well, sitting cultivating instead of living real life is one reason, "they should be inferior to us in something" is another, but real reason of course is "if they would act mature there would be no such bizarre story".
While listening to your videos I developed my own theory. To climb up the ladder you have to undergo constant tribulations which shock your brain with heavenly lightning. That's why the great xianxia masters become more brain damaged as time goes on.
I found ISSTH recently, and it has been one of the best books I have ever read. Still in about chapter 700, but having a blast, thanks for making it possible. Looking forward to learning more about xianxia.
True Taoist priest will indeed pursue a heart without emotions or distractions. Like a bottomless well, even if a large stone is dropped, it is only slightly rippling and it will soon return to calm. The real immortals do not have to eat nor sleep, do not have sex, have no desire. But it makes the story very boring. I think young readers do not want to read a story of a person who chants, meditates, talks,and plays Go all day long.
Not exactly right. In fact, Buddhism advocates that only the rejection of desire can eliminate pain. The enlightenment of Buddhism (at least Chinese Buddhism) is that the precepts only regulate the monks and do not force the average person to obey them. Taoism does not despise sexual behavior. In Taoism, “art of bedchamber” is a very important science. In ancient times, some Taoist priests became emperor's sexual health doctors. However, Taoist's libido is different from ordinary people. Sexual desire is the physiological needs of human beings, but immortals are not humans. Therefore, for immortals, sexual acts are like radish flowers on a plate. It is naturally pleasing to the eye, but without it, it is no harm.
Yes but the extreme personalities in these novels are always very hollow, based on a different stock vice. What I want to see is an abundance of Eccentric characters, that don't take over the story but only add to the nuance. It's hard to stay engaged in the story when every enemy is a carbon-copy of the last: arrogant, greedy, power-hungry, short-sighted, has no real friends. And thanks for the Zen reflection, because you see, "Happiness is not taking oneself so seriously."
In China, online novels are considered toilet reads. The threshold for publishing articles on the Internet is zero. From primary school students to government officials, there are at least 20 million network writers in China. An excellent literary work needs constant refinement and perfection. However, Chinese internet writers often produce sentences at a rate of tens of thousands of words per day,so high-level internet novels are as little as gold sand in riverbeds. If you want to have some high-quality reading, you should read some famous and enduring masterpieces.
well web novel it's make from Amateur's so it's not that bad, i think it's more like us with the reggeton and the Trap, all know that the content it's shit but the view in the videos can reach to the Billion's!!
I've read before a story that moses met an old woman who was mourning her son saying that he died at the prime of his youth. He asked her how old was her son and she said he was 300 years old. Or Noah lived more than a thousand years. It didn't look like it was a miracle for them to live that long. They just had stronger bodies. But for that woman to call her 300 year old son youthful, how old was she? There is a saying that women are as youthful as how they look and men is as youthful as how they feel. Maybe that's a reason. Having a young body will cause someone to act their age and after they get old they won't get the same excitement and adrenaline rush with every dangerous situation.
Wukong's age is measured in Googolplex, but he behaves like a 4-year-old child. He is always in his youth. and in general the age of the Chinese gods is measured with the googology. (the author of the wiki who is a mathematician mentions it) sites.google.com/site/largenumbers/home/information_desk/about-history '' There are several instances like this in history. Large Numbers also played a large part in the religious texts of the ancient indians. There are accounts of the Buddha naming powers of ten up to 10^421 in a contest against the mathematician Arjuna. Even more staggering numbers were employed as a way to try and describe the indescribable size of the cosmos. In a text translated in english as the "Flower Ornament Sutra", in book 30, it is said that the buddhas speak of numbers called incalculable, measureless, boundless, incomparable, innumerable, unaccountable, unthinkable, immeasurable, unspeakable, and finally untold. The Buddha then proceeds to explain these numbers by beginning with 10^10 and beginning a mind-numbingly long succession of iterated squares. By the end of this the Buddha reaches an untold and it's equal to 10^(10*2^122). This number even surpasses Archimedes benchmark. The Buddha then goes on to use the untold to describe the cosmos, in which everything one can imagine has untold multitudes across all space and time. There are untold buddha's each in untold buddha-lands speaking untold virtues for untold eons. These passages suggest a poetic continuation of the numbers beyond the untold as successive powers of untold. The purpose of this text differs significantly from the Sand-Reckoner. Here large numbers are used to titillate the reader into a kind of cosmic ecstasy, to literally blow the readers mind away. It should be noted that the numbers here are no mere speculation but appear to be regarded literally as, at least a hint, of just how grand the cosmos may be. So was the text about large numbers or just how great the buddha-verse is? Probably both. The text has a definite googological flare to it. I think it's fair to say that book 30 is a mediation on the magnificent scales that exist within the infinite cosmos of the buddha. In this sense it is not so much an attempt to bound this cosmos as it is to explore the portion of it that can be understood. In other words, the writer(s) attempted to take the numbers as far as their imagination could carry them in order to convey to the reader the wonder and terror of the cosmos fully realized. So once again we have an isolated incident of ancient speculation on the very large.'' Buddhism chan, taoism and more, marga and tao, Dragons / Nagas, etc
That is the point similar to Asura or Journey to West 2, where the Buddha's eye is the size of a Galaxy or Chakravartin is the size of the universe and in reality "they were being small".
That spiritual energy must alter their brain in strange way i guess. There is also a soul/mind improvement as their cultivation improves,so you would expect more from people who can makes thousands of calculations every momment and have a memmory countless times bigger and better than mortals. But lets face it,we all know the reason that dont act their age and are not as smart and calculative they should be is,the difficulty and the limitations of the author to achieve that in his novel.
Another argument would be that emotional maturity is highly valued in our society, and rightfully so. Emotional maturity greatly impacts success. So our society has grown to cultivate and create emotional maturity which doesn’t happen in these stories. All that matters is material wealth, talent, determination, and power. Because who cares if you can keep your calm when your enemy can kill you in an instant without repercussions.
Chinese writers like to describe someone old but funny and keep their mind young even they are live in a mortal and limited life. The function equals to the fat guys you mentioned. Such as the kungfu master天山童姥 in wuxia novel named 天龙八部；The character 老顽童 in novel 射雕英雄传 and 神雕侠侣；The characters 青翼蝠王 and 张三丰 in novel 倚天屠龙记, etc. For my point of view, I think people with powerful skills and experienced alot maybe want to become degage and do whatever they like instead of following social rules and moral standards to be wise enough to match age anymore. If I could live such a long time with unnatual power, I will not care about anything（But not do harm） and relief myself from the stiff world too....
I would actually argue that it _does_ take us longer to mature now. With longer lifespans...we're not expected to take care of ourselves faster. I mean, in the old days, 13 was the age of reason...you were already considered an adult at that age. Teenaged kids back then were pretty much forced to mature at a much younger age. Now a days, it's 18 years and kids now have an extended childhood in their teens that they once didn't have. So...if you apply that to immortals that live even _longer_ than that...yeah. Other possible explanation is how cultivation "renews" the body of the would-be immortal. Perhaps part of that is a kind of refreshing of the neural pathways of the brain...and that affects their mentality, too.
They usually keep the body of a youth which in turn leads tp them having the hormones of a youth and thereby the impulsiveness of a youth. The characters with older bodies tend to act more mature although pften exceedingly greedy
That's the question i always ask and honestly the main reason i drop most of the Chinese novel. The only Book that didn't got the problem with that age issue so far i know is reverend insanity.
I think they do act their age, up until the point where they come somewhat close to the MC. This is because the MC usually has some heaven defiyng trait that they have never seen before. When you are confronted with a situation never experienced before, you are much less bounded by your previous conceptions and ideas, and your "true" self is forced out.
Was just thinking, but once to get to those super high levels, you'll have either grown so old that most friends you ever had will have long since died, either from old age or battles for resources, or you'll have risen so quickly that you view yourself as inherently worth more than others. Either way, that probably takes a toll on one's sanity. All the powerful cultivators have clearly already gone crazy, to some extent. 😅
Hmm, I would say that, once you reach Dao of cultivation to Immortality. I would think that once you reach and breach the threshold to "extended lifespan" depending on your level of cultivation. Your body isn't the only thing that gets "evolved", but your mind and spirit. Your emotional and spiritual state gets more volatile for every cultivation level you reach, which is also certain importance to build your foundation and in most Chinese fantasies tend to focus on physical and spiritual growth and there is a bit lack of emotional discipline within a countless variety of cultivation methods. So you can say I get that sense of some cultivator may have "short fuse" or has more of an unrestricted emotional spectrum like jealousy or envy which is a common thing in Chinese fantasy :) and in some cases, you see some character who exhibit calm because that person has mastered to a degree the emotional state in cultivation. This is my take on cultivators "act their age" I hope you all understood where i try to explain here :)
I just like to think that because so many novels mention how the universe is fair and gives everyone a chance the universe just made all cultivators get brain damage so severe they aren't even capable of realizing they have brain damage in order to give mortals a chance to outsmart a cultivator lol
"The authors are not GRRM"... yes, he has raised the bar for quality of commercial stories. He's ruined us, now we expect Pulitzer and Nobel levs of quality. Guilty! XD
People never grow up. Childish and short-sighted greed is an overwhelming motivation in the cultivation world, much like our own. That's for maturity. Now if we're talking about old age, well, only old people act old. The characters act young because they magically feel young. Not too big a stretch for disbelief suspension.
my complaints are when the author sets up the character a certain way (usually cool, experienced and intelligent) and then he has the mc act like a hot-headed idiot instead. that has nothing to do with him acting his age and everything to do with getting irritated at the inconsistency of the author who says one thing and does another. i'd say its acting out of character rather than not acting their age. I know several older people in their 80s who act more childish than eight or nine year olds and that's IRL.
I think the meditation theory makes a lot of sense. Two things I often consider is that even in real life, different people develop differently, although most characters are not human, be they immortal, demon, or something else, they can develop differently depending n their experiences, most sheltered people (Most Chosen, let's be honest) probably haven't had that many life experiences outside of general cultivation, some of them seek love and have ambition, but you never really hear any of them desire something like a family, or a place to call their own, a lot of that stuff is kinda just assumed that they will get, it its their goal. The other thing I often see, cultivators take on really three different age groups, teenagers (the MC and most of their generation), middle aged (most other cultivators) and elderly (Old monsters) Then of course we have outliers...dangit Ultimate Vexation. Anyways, depending on how the cultivator appears, it prompts other to treat them as such, unless they have a profoundly high cultivation base, or some high status. A good example to look at is actually Bai Xiaochun during his time in the Spirit Stream Sect, where he becomes the Sect Leader's junior brother, most other disciples call him sect uncle. It's an interesting idea to talk about.
I think it comes down to a wide range of factors: a persons personality, their life style - sheltered or inexperience, time spent meditation/cultivating as as apposite to actual life personal interactions, growing up/having feeling/being argent/entitled makes for them in the end dumb-asses and make retarded decisions. Also time period plus social and cultural differences. (If it is expected for a 50 year old to act like a 15 year old, they will because it is the norm and expected). Really as you say it is a very interesting subject.
They don't change because they have to stay true to themself as to have a firm daoheart, and we change with age because we assume more responsibility and the changes in our body when we became older. I am saying that they don't appear more mature with time because they don't have to as they bodys don't age and every responsibility are resolved with strength and they are strong So if you pick a character that have responsibility that he can't resolve with strength and is in the end of they lifespan they probably will appear mature to you as he will be a sectmaster or a Elder
entitlement = immaturity a lot of those old kids are usually very privileged or talented and snobby. in a might makes right fantasy world, big powerful families tend to breed second generation buddas.
Excelent topic I think it would be much easier to explain with Chinese mythology directly, similar to the video of the giant measures of Xianxia. With Sun Wukong, The Jade Emperor, Hou Yi and even Lao-Tse can be explained. The Jade Emperor / Yellow Emperor is immortal too immortal obviously in reality all their ages are unknown, because we are going '' God '' literally (Although they are like 50 Emperors of Jade) in Journey to the West and other books we see it showing corrupt, nothing wise and with a '' temperament of a child '', exaggerated punishments and things like that, he has been in charge of expanding the dharma and those things with the Buddha. Hou Yi, Immortal possibly son of the Jade Emperor, killed his brothers, became mortal and spent his years as a corrupt Emperor / anti-hero on earth despite having eons of age. Sun Wukong - in the first chapter he mentions '' A monkey with knowledge of Tao '' basically from the Jade Emperor, Nu Wa and Pangu and they all know how they behave. Another example is the 8 immortals and so you can follow, what happens is that in the West is MERLIN so "All the Old Ones must be wise" that does not apply to the Chinese, that depends more on the environment of the present '' in the novel, for example Pil Demon/Demon Pil it is 'read' wise in ISSTH
They don’t because they are powerful, they could basically do want ever they want with their power and have no consequences, and everyone is obedience to that person or god who posses that kind of power, so if people obeys you, and you could do whatever you want, you don’t have a lot of experience, because you get what ever you want and you don’t grow up. so your living as you wish, therefore it makes you childishly and stupidly
For my explanation is the behavior acceptance of the different world Hear me out if a 30-year-old of our world act like a 15-year-old kid he would be looked down on etc etc But if the same case but of the cultivation world where he would die of ages 10 000 then for him to act that way is acceptable bc well, he only lives about 0.3% of his totals life so acting like a child, an elder of 8 000 years old wouldn't mind their behavior as they are still a baby within the elder's eyes.
I think this should be concidered as a lack of writting properly. BUT as you said these novels are usually not about that. their focus is on other stuff. the 'personalities' are concidered a side dish by many and thus a good tool to judge the author. - the meditation theory cannot be used because even if they spend alot of time doing that they still have lots of world experiences and thus time to 'mature'. - in alot of the novels the mc's parents from the age of 20-30 to the age of infi(ISSTH, DE etc) are always acting like a 'mature' person. this alone is sufficient to disprove the theories. - novels usually start with characters having personalities but as the story progresses so much stuff is going on that these things are pushed back. Perfect World is good example for that. The story started with the mc being 1-2 years old. for the initial period of time the author showed his development as a human but after that he bacame a generic mc.
@Deathblade. Part of the bad behavior is the environment they grow up in and over inflated sense of family or sect responsibility. Most of the time when you get the stereotypical cannon fodder they are a second or third gen spoiled young master/miss with a powerful family or sect to back them up. And because they are a direct descendent or have a powerful master in a high position everyone around them is used to kissing up to them and flattering them, then even when they go out in the world they have a body guard and their flatterers go with them so in the abscence of an OP main character they would love their whole lives growing stronger with that over inflated sense of self worth. This for some reason is allowed by the parents, masters, etc despite the fact that the guardians responsible for these little sh!ts May have had to fight and struggle for everything they had so they know the value of hard work. My only take on this is these guardians fall into the trap of “giving their children everything they didn’t have” so the little sh!ts grow up to be entitled big sh!ts and go on to instill this way of thinking into future generations. This way you get a whole clan or sect that’s rotten from the inside then when the product of generations of indulgence and flattery meets the OP Mc no matter how old the spoiled young master is he or she can’t take someone of inferior status out doing them and not showing them face. Then when said little sh!t is killed or humiliated the older big sh!ts come to take revenge against a junior for the same reason. Now for wondering cultivators they’re used to scrambling for resources anyway so while face is still important they have less clout to get offended. Not to mention seeking immortality is going against the heavens anyway So while you have to be ruthless for yourself and others when you’re the product of generations of indulgence you’ll never have a firm mentality anyway. These people were crippled at the birth of their Dao so of course they won’t be mature
Actually it's logical. But maybe not as common to stay as young as teenage heart, but to be young adult or adult it's fine I think? First like what said in video they cultivate most of their time, second, they don't get old. Maturation comes when we have the realisation that we "don't have much time left", and we feel the urge to achieve more within our time to better fit in, to work harder for our kids. All these are not experienced by them, they are not facing this scenario and they are too in an environment where people like them die of jie or murders more than sickness and old age. I do see characters who for plot reasons fails to proceed and they die of old age, they have that realisation as we do. Remember how people keep saying "you don't realise your body getting old until you get fractures and your bone aches"? If we as normal humans given the blessing of healthy strong body to live, say, to 150 years old we are most likely feel young and act young even we reach 40. And then there is the separation from worldly matters. We learn from the ups and downs in our lives, they don't really quite get the same intensity as us though. That's why some cultivators reach bottlenecks when they "don't understand" certain emotions or concepts. They can't feel as much because they don't know where they should start. And to solve the problems, sects often get the students to "go down their mountains" and "experience life", then only they will be able to see the pattern of the world and get above it. That's the dao they were trying to understand and be fused with. Each cultivators have to get acknowledgement from tiandao to achieve true immortality (the correct way to say it is to share lifespan with tiandao I think? )So they will have to be as good as tiandao in the understanding of the world/dimensions tiandao controls.
I have thought about this myself a bit. I think the time spent secluded is the major maturity killer for these characters. You gain maturity by reflecting on your many social interactions. Many of the characters in the stories live excessively long lives but have few social interactions, and when they reflect, they do so on battle. While we reflect on the things we failed to say properly or the things we failed to do at all, they reflect on failing to unleash that punch properly or whether or not they should have used a different spell. I remember reading Coiling Dragon, Linley dated a girl and it didn't work out. It was glorious. A relatable social interaction in a Xianxia. The author tried it again in Desolate Era, but it didn't go over nearly as well. I attribute it to the fact that young Linley was a vibrant character, and young Ning was so boring I almost didn't make it out of the early story in DE. But Linley rapidly lost his vibrancy in CD after that , and Ning actually became more and more interesting as he got older. Were I quit DE it seamed like Linley didn't really care about anyone but himself and his own reason for continuing was that he wanted to be the strongest. On the other hand, Ning went from blindly trying to reach the peak to needing to reach the peak to achieve his real goal. The quest for power had a purpose and he seemed to care more about people as he aged, not less.
another thing is that in the real world people need to rely on each other in order to get by in life and our actions have consequences so we have a huge incentive to actively try and learn how to socialize with others unlike in xianxia where the bigger fist is always right so strong people don't need social skills since everyone will suck up to them either way and weak people don't need social skills because strong people will look down on them either way so social skills only work on equals however if you're weak a bunch of weaklings will never stand a chance against one strong dude and if you're strong then as long as you don't run into a main character or someone stronger you will almost always be able to safely escape your peers so even if you anger everyone else it doesn't really matter so as a result why bother improving social skills when you can just improve your cultivation?
Some part of acting adult is bullshit, a front. In men having testosterone or the lacking of it also plays a role. Less testosterone may make us act less impulsive therefore "mature". These immortals have huge amounts of health and sexual health and drive.
My two cents, perhaps one of the reasons some of the character immature was because they were far too powerful and thus did not have to care what others thinking and also could literally do whatever they want. The more powerful one becomes, the more childish a person could act. Because not many or none could put a stop on their behaviour
they live their life where 99% of their life they are in seclusion training. they don't care about day to day stuff, hence they see mortals as ants, which are insignificant as they don't live long (10 to 40 lifespan at that time for mortal) their cultivation demands that they don't have so called knots in their heart, they must never self doubt else they will not be able to cultivate further. So they must solve these knots using only means they know, combat...
eg. someone kills someone important to them, they feel grief, unless they are capable of truly forgiving the killer (they would have to be a saint for that), they must avenge to go on. if they promised something they can't back out on that etc
just take a look at western and some japanese light novel that have elves in then. elves have long life span hundreds to thousand of year and a 300 year old elf girl will act like a tenage human girl. since elfs ar not human, u cant judge elf by human standard. it not really explain, most of us just accept it lol.
I always just assumed that there was something inherent to the transition from mortal to cultivator that cemented people into their personalities, and further growth from there seems to largely correlate to appearance. An elderly man could have a low cultivation base at age 80 or he could be an immortal thousands of years old, but they're going to act more alike than some kid who is 80 but appears 15 because he rapidly cultivated to whatever level slowed his physical aging. On the other hand, imagine you are several books into a novel. The MC has progressed through several realms, gone on to bigger continents/other worlds, and has arrived back at the position of (deceptively) small fish in a big pond. His antagonists have to be a couple centuries old to pose a suitable threat in terms of cultivation...but somehow the arrogant young master characters are basically the same old arrogant young masters, except usually more extreme in their vices.
People on average behave the way they can get away with + the way they were taught/brought up to, and both of those are determined in a big way by society standards for behavior.. which in turn get affected by extended lifespans. So in a way longer total life expectancy does lead to, lets say "an option" for later emotional maturity for some characters, or maybe partial maturity (as in behaving maturely at large, but having some immature sparks here and there, which you can call a distorted maturity). And the above obviously overlaps with and is supported by the other points discussed in the video.
Can be view as someone is comparing game cheat code between others. Who have the most or less. Since cultivation world is about absolute power. So acting childish even you already 1000 years old is still acceptable.
Another thing is that the age people act is often in relation to the other people they are around. I've known people who acted quite childish, even though they were an adult, simply because they were young in comparison to the group they were hanging around with. They felt like the 'baby' in that social context and so behaved like that. So I think in the cultivation world, if everyone is living a really long time then the social 'age groups' that form will mean that when a 100 year old is conversing with a 300 year old, he may be acting a bit like a kid, even though he had the emotional maturity to act otherwise.
I do actually think many of them act their age though, however, many of them are still spoiled due to daft elders or not contemplating the dao of mutual respect. However I wouldn't say that any character acts in a fitting manner for any age, the only character that I can think off on the top of my head that acts his age is Jiang Chen from Sovereign of the Three Realms, maybe because he is incredibly ancient and almost all-knowing. He might be lofty but he can adapt and show respect to those he deem worthy, and then it's life long respect. Otherwise power gets to ones head, if you're strong enough to get whatever you want, then why bother with developing interpersonal skills, do you really need to say thanks to someone when you don't need to buy anything and can just take it through force? It is not only the actors influencing the world but the world influencing the actor.
I consider the cultivators like some extra super royalty. Since they were young normal people looked at them as gods and they could do almost anything they wished. So they never had any need to question themselves and what they did. I'm writing a novel on the new QI originals thing they opened a few weeks ago where a westerner gets reincarnated in a xianxia world and looks at their behavior through his morality. It's called Cultivating Civilization if someone wants to check it out.
don't a lot of the immortals start out as mortals? I know in some some comics the disciples are required to travel the world before the can go higher in the sect in order to let go of attachments.
Mainly, even hundreds of years should encourage more extreme personalities, like some very eccentric characters which are rare in many novels. These characters should be incredibly far-sighted, even in at least one small autistic way, but... Unless it's someone who gets along well with the protagonist, they will almost always be carbon copied arrogant vice-driven garbage characters. Even if their introduction is strong, and their potential is secured, their finality and evolution is hollow and without nuance, or enough variation. I started reading Manga again, and Japanese novels. I find the history, culture, and nuance infinitely more engaging, even if the stories aren't so grandiose and over-achieving. In fact, those stories tend to be very humble and their appeal is-- whether the story is even good or not-- from getting *lost* in the details. This sounds great to me but... Ironically, a lot of people reading Chinese novels just complain that a chapter was too boring and that they skimmed through it all... these people, the most vocal ones, could probably completely drop a novel if it tried to incorporate more consistent nuance and details. It sometimes feels more like the authors are just living in the safe realm of what they know, as far as arcs go, and they completely leave the explorative aspect to the creation of the story itself.
But here is the thing.. living in such a dangerous world... why are all the clans not actually smart enough to properly control their children. I mean, they are people who have to deal with a dangerous world, but they have no proper sense of danger for themselves or their family. And frankly, I think the real reason they have the mental capacity of 5 year old children is because it's just easier to write. I mean, you said it yourself, they are just kinda spit out and don't use as much time.. and these things are tropes, not really characters...
that's sad how the excuse for mistakes in Chinese novels is because its not the point of the novel to write a something decent to read without having the reader literally think in their mind there is something wrong with this novel's main character, how did he lose his "genius intellect" that the author wrote about back in the previous 20 chapters.
I think "maturity" all depends on environment. So, if you were this guy that has lived 500,000,000 years, and had to fight people to the death all the time over cultivation resources or weapons, you wouldn't act like some 70-year-old that grew up tending to cows and sheep in a farm and working in a textile factory in the safety of the U.S. "Kids these days and their newfangled gadgets!" It makes complete sense to me that people of these stories would act differently from humans of Earth that have likely never even had their lives threatened.
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Well you can always use the excuse that the villainous heavens have blocked the dao of responsible adulthood.
Praise Lord Fifth!
While a joke, that may very well have a lot of truth in it. People don't get rational or mature cause they get older. They get rational and mature because of changing environment (from teen to working adult, then to family man and so on).
Most cultivators aren't burdened with much of that except for simple "do tasks for sect suitable to your cultivation level and don't mess with the big dogs". Stuff that even 6 yo kids face in their everyday life.
And most often their "maturing" is about realizing that bigger fist wins and might makes right. So asides not pissing off the big dog, they indeed have little incentives for acting like sages and thinking their actions 10x over before they do act.
Then just seal the heavens!
I often find it ridiculous how often time MC says something that might be obvious to a 10-year-old child and the clan elders think it's some kind of amazing revelation or grand strategy. Like they are hundreds of years old, but their mental capacity is ofter so dumb compared to the things they can do (study complex formation and stuff.) There are only a few novels that correct these mistake. For example RMJI have really great villains that have plots behind plots that are based on good logic and MC has to outwit real masters of strategy.
Yes, RMJI is full of old demons, that really "act their age." God of slaughter is another one, but the story is not that meticulous/complicated compared to RMJI, but there is a constant atmosphere of fear and pressure from the old demons with higher cultivations.
@Mustafa Altay i think it's
A Record of a Mortal's Journey to Immortality.
One thing I think is worth considering, often cultivators never really grow up. There are always seniors, the next cultivation level, that next level of information about the world they don't know yet because they haven't reached the level of power to know. Example using Meng Hao, by the time he joins the Reliance Sect, he is surprised to learn immortal cultivators even exist. Then he learns about the continent. Then the other continents. Then the planet. Then the solar system. And so on and so forth.
They never reach that point where they stop discovering huge revelations, like they are permanently stuck in a cyclic coming of age novel/movie.
I appreciate that, even if most the people around Meng Hao are consumed by their extreme vices...
You see, a Master, as I've been told by my instructors in my martial system, is only a "True Beginner."
Mainly, even as a master, you are practicing the basics day in and day out.
The only differences are your concepts of "success" and "mistake."
well they tend to extend their novel's for more revenue, so that it's the reason, they will begin all the circle.
it does kind of account for the lack of existential jadedness that comes with adulthood .......
And the thing is that the powerfull people are always described at first as rare, because it's hard to reach the high levels, but then the more powerfull the chracter gets, the more people are who are powerfull powerfull.
Why not make them realy rare, so that growing steonger really is an achievement and not just who ia richer wity more resources ?
If we wanna be accurate of the situation, if I know that I can cultivate, which would make me live extremely long, I won't give two shots about anything, I'll be immature my whole time
In my reading, I tend to see the Immortals acting in methods similar to Greek, Roman and Norse gods. Life is much more about the moment and doing things based on the Heart's Desire rather than what mortals consider to me normal behaviour.
I wonder if its biological, as we age, we start to calm down as the body reacts to not having as much power, stamina and durability. But a cultivator is always at their peak, needs no food or water, never gets sick and can accomplish things by themselves that an army of mortals couldn't. If you live eternally, leaving behind a legacy or making a family might become far less important, because you can just reap the fruits of whatever you started eons ago. And if you aren't immortal yet, you will either be obsessed with getting immortality for your sake or to protect your life and the ones you love from going squish by the whims of a foul tempered cultivator. It could just be the brain's adaptation to these radical changes in the person's life, keeping them witty and stubborn so they aren't destroyed on the path to the next level.
To me, it makes sense given the type of culture they live in. Whether we like it or not, the type of world where being able to kill someone for simply offending you is very indulgent I'll say and supports the growth of arrogant and prideful personalities. Even to the point that they simply don't care if their logic makes zero sense.
The first question is how we define emotionally mature?
When we defined that, are we sure that most or even all adults in society fullfill that criteria?
Im pretty sure the hostile or sheltered Environment depicted in most Xianxia and Xuanhuan novels are not really helpful for developing what we call emotional maturity.
Jinjitsu definitely not where I’d like to raise a child
Actually, the hostile AND sheltered environments most encounter are very conducive to emotional maturity, because they do not shirk from laying responsibility for their own actions at their feet, and force self-reliance, even in sects that carefully groom their students for the future, as they know that if they just give them everything that they'll distort their dao and cut short their ascension. Every dao, in the end, is just another path through life for those seeking enlightenment and freedom to follow that path until they no longer can. The problems usually arise within both of those environments when it comes to interaction with mortals and with opposing daos, causing even those who are typically tolerant to become ruthless in dedication to their chosen path.
I think your comment is well thought out but I am not quite sure we use the same defintion of maturity. In novels, or at least the novels I remember, the most sheltered are normally the most "childish" from my definiton. If we you want further discussion we need to obtain a common sense of the word mature, otherwise we wont understand the best arguments of the other person.
Jinjitsu true
There's a difference between being sheltered and being spoiled. You're conflating the two concepts together. Many sheltered immortals turn out just fine, though their knowledge of the wider world is lacking, whilst many unsheltered immortals turn out poorly because they were otherwise spoiled by a higher-up within their sect, leading to grandiose arrogance. Take a look at the Reliance Sect from the very beginning of ISSTH, for example. Meng Hao and all his compatriots were bottom barrel, forced to rely on themselves as much as possible, with friendships being dissuaded by the sect rules. There were a fair number of spoilt brats still that had caught the eye of a master who gave them some limited protection, so they messed with anyone weaker than themselves, while in other cases they grew as people just fine (see: his waifu).
That's a lot of food for thought. Honestly speaking, after reading Xianxia I find I enjoy it a lot more than western novels overall. I don't need characters to be overly mature, but I I expect important ones to be. As far as suspense of disbelief goes, I do believe at least 75% of that is the responsibility of the author. And wow, you calling yourself fat is hilarious. You should probably just say you're not in shape :p
As a Chinese who loves to read xianxia manhua i have some thoughts here (they may not be right)
i believe the elder act young could be because they have join in to dao （道）similar to 天人合一 and in taoism a person who got dao could 逍遙 xiaoyao as 莊子 zhuangzi (one of the iconic philosopher of taoism) had mentioned in one of his writings. Thus they had given up their desires 七情六欲 and become carefree so they would seem like they are free like a child.
another reason could be because of them having to become the immortal or saint?（ 仙/聖人/君子？）As mentioned in 老子 laozi( another iconic philosopher of taoism)'s daodejing/laozi (道德經/老子) the person who become the saint(?) (ie the ideal person which meets daoism principles(being the same or join into dao )) would be as pure as a new born 反樸歸真（常德不離，復歸於嬰兒）
So the elderly who became immortal assuming that they have become the ideal person would act like a child.
However i am no expert in taoism so some of the ideas i have written could be misinterpreted by me but at least as a native Chinese i have never thought of the problem that these elders who act young is strange But i do find conflict in the mc always try to fight the fate or tiandao when taoism always mention the idea of becoming the same as tiandao
假如你也是中國人 不放留個言 看看有多少人在看 嘿嘿
This is kinda similar to my idea that the cultivation renews their bodies, including their neural pathways...which might effect their mentality or how they perceive the world. My idea was more pseudo-science based, though.
There are also the philosophies of Individualism expressed in one's dao-heart where you act according to yourself rather than your super-ego all the time. Following the laws of the world means you live in that world, but if you follow in your own law then what world do you live in and why does it matter who's expectations you live up to when you have the power to lord over others?
Many novels actually point that out directly. They call this emotional aging "heart realm". And most cultivators never reach even 1st level in those. At the same time according to descriptions of those realms, most adults in our world reach 2-3rd level some even more. So those cultivators are really just kids or at best young adults. As for why they are so inferior to normal humans/us. Well, sitting cultivating instead of living real life is one reason, "they should be inferior to us in something" is another, but real reason of course is "if they would act mature there would be no such bizarre story".
While listening to your videos I developed my own theory. To climb up the ladder you have to undergo constant tribulations which shock your brain with heavenly lightning. That's why the great xianxia masters become more brain damaged as time goes on.
That one dislike must be from Wang Tengfei.
I found ISSTH recently, and it has been one of the best books I have ever read. Still in about chapter 700, but having a blast, thanks for making it possible. Looking forward to learning more about xianxia.
True Taoist priest will indeed pursue a heart without emotions or distractions. Like a bottomless well, even if a large stone is dropped, it is only slightly rippling and it will soon return to calm. The real immortals do not have to eat nor sleep, do not have sex, have no desire. But it makes the story very boring. I think young readers do not want to read a story of a person who chants, meditates, talks,and plays Go all day long.
Actually Taoism and Buddhism does not despise sex, it is part of immortality.
Not exactly right. In fact, Buddhism advocates that only the rejection of desire can eliminate pain. The enlightenment of Buddhism (at least Chinese Buddhism) is that the precepts only regulate the monks and do not force the average person to obey them. Taoism does not despise sexual behavior. In Taoism, “art of bedchamber” is a very important science. In ancient times, some Taoist priests became emperor's sexual health doctors. However, Taoist's libido is different from ordinary people. Sexual desire is the physiological needs of human beings, but immortals are not humans. Therefore, for immortals, sexual acts are like radish flowers on a plate. It is naturally pleasing to the eye, but without it, it is no harm.
Yes but the extreme personalities in these novels are always very hollow, based on a different stock vice.
What I want to see is an abundance of Eccentric characters, that don't take over the story but only add to the nuance.
It's hard to stay engaged in the story when every enemy is a carbon-copy of the last: arrogant, greedy, power-hungry, short-sighted, has no real friends.
And thanks for the Zen reflection, because you see, "Happiness is not taking oneself so seriously."
In China, online novels are considered toilet reads. The threshold for publishing articles on the Internet is zero. From primary school students to government officials, there are at least 20 million network writers in China. An excellent literary work needs constant refinement and perfection. However, Chinese internet writers often produce sentences at a rate of tens of thousands of words per day,so high-level internet novels are as little as gold sand in riverbeds. If you want to have some high-quality reading, you should read some famous and enduring masterpieces.
well web novel it's make from Amateur's so it's not that bad, i think it's more like us with the reggeton and the Trap, all know that the content it's shit but the view in the videos can reach to the Billion's!!
I've read before a story that moses met an old woman who was mourning her son saying that he died at the prime of his youth. He asked her how old was her son and she said he was 300 years old. Or Noah lived more than a thousand years. It didn't look like it was a miracle for them to live that long. They just had stronger bodies. But for that woman to call her 300 year old son youthful, how old was she?
There is a saying that women are as youthful as how they look and men is as youthful as how they feel. Maybe that's a reason. Having a young body will cause someone to act their age and after they get old they won't get the same excitement and adrenaline rush with every dangerous situation.
Wukong's age is measured in Googolplex, but he behaves like a 4-year-old child.
He is always in his youth. and in general the age of the Chinese gods is measured with the googology. (the author of the wiki who is a mathematician mentions it)
sites.google.com/site/largenumbers/home/information_desk/about-history
'' There are several instances like this in history. Large Numbers also played a large part in the religious texts of the ancient indians. There are accounts of the Buddha naming powers of ten up to 10^421 in a contest against the mathematician Arjuna. Even more staggering numbers were employed as a way to try and describe the indescribable size of the cosmos. In a text translated in english as the "Flower Ornament Sutra", in book 30, it is said that the buddhas speak of numbers called incalculable, measureless, boundless, incomparable, innumerable, unaccountable, unthinkable, immeasurable, unspeakable, and finally untold. The Buddha then proceeds to explain these numbers by beginning with 10^10 and beginning a mind-numbingly long succession of iterated squares. By the end of this the Buddha reaches an untold and it's equal to 10^(10*2^122). This number even surpasses Archimedes benchmark. The Buddha then goes on to use the untold to describe the cosmos, in which everything one can imagine has untold multitudes across all space and time. There are untold buddha's each in untold buddha-lands speaking untold virtues for untold eons. These passages suggest a poetic continuation of the numbers beyond the untold as successive powers of untold. The purpose of this text differs significantly from the Sand-Reckoner. Here large numbers are used to titillate the reader into a kind of cosmic ecstasy, to literally blow the readers mind away. It should be noted that the numbers here are no mere speculation but appear to be regarded literally as, at least a hint, of just how grand the cosmos may be. So was the text about large numbers or just how great the buddha-verse is? Probably both. The text has a definite googological flare to it. I think it's fair to say that book 30 is a mediation on the magnificent scales that exist within the infinite cosmos of the buddha. In this sense it is not so much an attempt to bound this cosmos as it is to explore the portion of it that can be understood. In other words, the writer(s) attempted to take the numbers as far as their imagination could carry them in order to convey to the reader the wonder and terror of the cosmos fully realized. So once again we have an isolated incident of ancient speculation on the very large.''
Buddhism chan, taoism and more, marga and tao, Dragons / Nagas, etc
Jose Loayza
These numbers are so ridiculous that it makes a 10 thousand zhang tall giant seem like nothing.
That is the point similar to Asura or Journey to West 2, where the Buddha's eye is the size of a Galaxy or Chakravartin is the size of the universe and in reality "they were being small".
Indra's net something complicated to explain.
Jose Loayza
But that is what makes reading wuxia/xianxia novels enjoyable by stimulating our imagination.
That spiritual energy must alter their brain in strange way i guess.
There is also a soul/mind improvement as their cultivation improves,so you would expect more from people who can makes thousands of calculations every momment and have a memmory countless times bigger and better than mortals.
But lets face it,we all know the reason that dont act their age and are not as smart and calculative they should be is,the difficulty and the limitations of the author to achieve that in his novel.
Another argument would be that emotional maturity is highly valued in our society, and rightfully so. Emotional maturity greatly impacts success. So our society has grown to cultivate and create emotional maturity which doesn’t happen in these stories. All that matters is material wealth, talent, determination, and power. Because who cares if you can keep your calm when your enemy can kill you in an instant without repercussions.
Chinese writers like to describe someone old but funny and keep their mind young even they are live in a mortal and limited life. The function equals to the fat guys you mentioned. Such as the kungfu master天山童姥 in wuxia novel named 天龙八部；The character 老顽童 in novel 射雕英雄传 and 神雕侠侣；The characters 青翼蝠王 and 张三丰 in novel 倚天屠龙记, etc. For my point of view, I think people with powerful skills and experienced alot maybe want to become degage and do whatever they like instead of following social rules and moral standards to be wise enough to match age anymore. If I could live such a long time with unnatual power, I will not care about anything（But not do harm） and relief myself from the stiff world too....
Due to the fact that they're still stuck in the same kind of maturity despite overwhelming power.
I would actually argue that it _does_ take us longer to mature now. With longer lifespans...we're not expected to take care of ourselves faster. I mean, in the old days, 13 was the age of reason...you were already considered an adult at that age. Teenaged kids back then were pretty much forced to mature at a much younger age. Now a days, it's 18 years and kids now have an extended childhood in their teens that they once didn't have. So...if you apply that to immortals that live even _longer_ than that...yeah.
Other possible explanation is how cultivation "renews" the body of the would-be immortal. Perhaps part of that is a kind of refreshing of the neural pathways of the brain...and that affects their mentality, too.
It's just that their availability of knowledge was not spread enough. "They are frog in a well"
I thought it was to keep the story more interseting. Having every cultivator who is old act like a sage seems boring.
One cannot act according to heart desire and control it or one will fall to heart demon:*proceed to act what ever the fuck they want*
They usually keep the body of a youth which in turn leads tp them having the hormones of a youth and thereby the impulsiveness of a youth. The characters with older bodies tend to act more mature although pften exceedingly greedy
more powerful=more senior.
That's the question i always ask and honestly the main reason i drop most of the Chinese novel. The only Book that didn't got the problem with that age issue so far i know is reverend insanity.
I think they do act their age, up until the point where they come somewhat close to the MC. This is because the MC usually has some heaven defiyng trait that they have never seen before. When you are confronted with a situation never experienced before, you are much less bounded by your previous conceptions and ideas, and your "true" self is forced out.
Was just thinking, but once to get to those super high levels, you'll have either grown so old that most friends you ever had will have long since died, either from old age or battles for resources, or you'll have risen so quickly that you view yourself as inherently worth more than others. Either way, that probably takes a toll on one's sanity. All the powerful cultivators have clearly already gone crazy, to some extent. 😅
Hmm, I would say that, once you reach Dao of cultivation to Immortality. I would think that once you reach and breach the threshold to "extended lifespan" depending on your level of cultivation. Your body isn't the only thing that gets "evolved", but your mind and spirit. Your emotional and spiritual state gets more volatile for every cultivation level you reach, which is also certain importance to build your foundation and in most Chinese fantasies tend to focus on physical and spiritual growth and there is a bit lack of emotional discipline within a countless variety of cultivation methods.
So you can say I get that sense of some cultivator may have "short fuse" or has more of an unrestricted emotional spectrum like jealousy or envy which is a common thing in Chinese fantasy :)
and in some cases, you see some character who exhibit calm because that person has mastered to a degree the emotional state in cultivation.
This is my take on cultivators "act their age"
I hope you all understood where i try to explain here :)
I just like to think that because so many novels mention how the universe is fair and gives everyone a chance the universe just made all cultivators get brain damage so severe they aren't even capable of realizing they have brain damage in order to give mortals a chance to outsmart a cultivator lol
I think it's just about when nobody has to follow rules and your strong enough who cares about maturity
"The authors are not GRRM"... yes, he has raised the bar for quality of commercial stories. He's ruined us, now we expect Pulitzer and Nobel levs of quality. Guilty! XD
People never grow up. Childish and short-sighted greed is an overwhelming motivation in the cultivation world, much like our own. That's for maturity. Now if we're talking about old age, well, only old people act old. The characters act young because they magically feel young. Not too big a stretch for disbelief suspension.
my complaints are when the author sets up the character a certain way (usually cool, experienced and intelligent) and then he has the mc act like a hot-headed idiot instead. that has nothing to do with him acting his age and everything to do with getting irritated at the inconsistency of the author who says one thing and does another. i'd say its acting out of character rather than not acting their age. I know several older people in their 80s who act more childish than eight or nine year olds and that's IRL.
I think the meditation theory makes a lot of sense. Two things I often consider is that even in real life, different people develop differently, although most characters are not human, be they immortal, demon, or something else, they can develop differently depending n their experiences, most sheltered people (Most Chosen, let's be honest) probably haven't had that many life experiences outside of general cultivation, some of them seek love and have ambition, but you never really hear any of them desire something like a family, or a place to call their own, a lot of that stuff is kinda just assumed that they will get, it its their goal. The other thing I often see, cultivators take on really three different age groups, teenagers (the MC and most of their generation), middle aged (most other cultivators) and elderly (Old monsters) Then of course we have outliers...dangit Ultimate Vexation. Anyways, depending on how the cultivator appears, it prompts other to treat them as such, unless they have a profoundly high cultivation base, or some high status. A good example to look at is actually Bai Xiaochun during his time in the Spirit Stream Sect, where he becomes the Sect Leader's junior brother, most other disciples call him sect uncle. It's an interesting idea to talk about.
I think it comes down to a wide range of factors: a persons personality, their life style - sheltered or inexperience, time spent meditation/cultivating as as apposite to actual life personal interactions, growing up/having feeling/being argent/entitled makes for them in the end dumb-asses and make retarded decisions. Also time period plus social and cultural differences. (If it is expected for a 50 year old to act like a 15 year old, they will because it is the norm and expected). Really as you say it is a very interesting subject.
You could also say that the fact they are immortals would make them even more childish
They don't change because they have to stay true to themself as to have a firm daoheart, and we change with age because we assume more responsibility and the changes in our body when we became older.
I am saying that they don't appear more mature with time because they don't have to as they bodys don't age and every responsibility are resolved with strength and they are strong
So if you pick a character that have responsibility that he can't resolve with strength and is in the end of they lifespan they probably will appear mature to you as he will be a sectmaster or a Elder
entitlement = immaturity
a lot of those old kids are usually very privileged or talented and snobby. in a might makes right fantasy world, big powerful families tend to breed second generation buddas.
Excelent topic
I think it would be much easier to explain with Chinese mythology directly, similar to the video of the giant measures of Xianxia.
With Sun Wukong, The Jade Emperor, Hou Yi and even Lao-Tse can be explained.
The Jade Emperor / Yellow Emperor is immortal too immortal obviously in reality all their ages are unknown, because we are going '' God '' literally (Although they are like 50 Emperors of Jade) in Journey to the West and other books we see it showing corrupt, nothing wise and with a '' temperament of a child '', exaggerated punishments and things like that, he has been in charge of expanding the dharma and those things with the Buddha.
Hou Yi, Immortal possibly son of the Jade Emperor, killed his brothers, became mortal and spent his years as a corrupt Emperor / anti-hero on earth despite having eons of age.
Sun Wukong - in the first chapter he mentions '' A monkey with knowledge of Tao '' basically from the Jade Emperor, Nu Wa and Pangu and they all know how they behave.
Another example is the 8 immortals and so you can follow, what happens is that in the West is MERLIN so "All the Old Ones must be wise" that does not apply to the Chinese, that depends more on the environment of the present '' in the novel, for example Pil Demon/Demon Pil it is 'read' wise in ISSTH
They don’t because they are powerful, they could basically do want ever they want with their power and have no consequences, and everyone is obedience to that person or god who posses that kind of power, so if people obeys you, and you could do whatever you want, you don’t have a lot of experience, because you get what ever you want and you don’t grow up. so your living as you wish, therefore it makes you childishly and stupidly
thank you daoist deathBlade for enlightening us!
For my explanation is the behavior acceptance of the different world
Hear me out if a 30-year-old of our world act like a 15-year-old kid he would be looked down on etc etc
But if the same case but of the cultivation world where he would die of ages 10 000 then for him to act that way is acceptable bc
well, he only lives about 0.3% of his totals life so acting like a child, an elder of 8 000 years old wouldn't mind their behavior as they are still a baby within the elder's eyes.
I think this should be concidered as a lack of writting properly. BUT as you said these novels are usually not about that. their focus is on other stuff. the 'personalities' are concidered a side dish by many and thus a good tool to judge the author.
- the meditation theory cannot be used because even if they spend alot of time doing that they still have lots of world experiences and thus time to 'mature'.
- in alot of the novels the mc's parents from the age of 20-30 to the age of infi(ISSTH, DE etc) are always acting like a 'mature' person. this alone is sufficient to disprove the theories.
- novels usually start with characters having personalities but as the story progresses so much stuff is going on that these things are pushed back. Perfect World is good example for that. The story started with the mc being 1-2 years old. for the initial period of time the author showed his development as a human but after that he bacame a generic mc.
@Deathblade. Part of the bad behavior is the environment they grow up in and over inflated sense of family or sect responsibility. Most of the time when you get the stereotypical cannon fodder they are a second or third gen spoiled young master/miss with a powerful family or sect to back them up. And because they are a direct descendent or have a powerful master in a high position everyone around them is used to kissing up to them and flattering them, then even when they go out in the world they have a body guard and their flatterers go with them so in the abscence of an OP main character they would love their whole lives growing stronger with that over inflated sense of self worth. This for some reason is allowed by the parents, masters, etc despite the fact that the guardians responsible for these little sh!ts May have had to fight and struggle for everything they had so they know the value of hard work. My only take on this is these guardians fall into the trap of “giving their children everything they didn’t have” so the little sh!ts grow up to be entitled big sh!ts and go on to instill this way of thinking into future generations. This way you get a whole clan or sect that’s rotten from the inside then when the product of generations of indulgence and flattery meets the OP Mc no matter how old the spoiled young master is he or she can’t take someone of inferior status out doing them and not showing them face. Then when said little sh!t is killed or humiliated the older big sh!ts come to take revenge against a junior for the same reason. Now for wondering cultivators they’re used to scrambling for resources anyway so while face is still important they have less clout to get offended. Not to mention seeking immortality is going against the heavens anyway So while you have to be ruthless for yourself and others when you’re the product of generations of indulgence you’ll never have a firm mentality anyway. These people were crippled at the birth of their Dao so of course they won’t be mature
I think its because most are focused on cultivation and lack behind social norms
Actually it's logical. But maybe not as common to stay as young as teenage heart, but to be young adult or adult it's fine I think? First like what said in video they cultivate most of their time, second, they don't get old. Maturation comes when we have the realisation that we "don't have much time left", and we feel the urge to achieve more within our time to better fit in, to work harder for our kids. All these are not experienced by them, they are not facing this scenario and they are too in an environment where people like them die of jie or murders more than sickness and old age. I do see characters who for plot reasons fails to proceed and they die of old age, they have that realisation as we do. Remember how people keep saying "you don't realise your body getting old until you get fractures and your bone aches"? If we as normal humans given the blessing of healthy strong body to live, say, to 150 years old we are most likely feel young and act young even we reach 40.
And then there is the separation from worldly matters. We learn from the ups and downs in our lives, they don't really quite get the same intensity as us though. That's why some cultivators reach bottlenecks when they "don't understand" certain emotions or concepts. They can't feel as much because they don't know where they should start. And to solve the problems, sects often get the students to "go down their mountains" and "experience life", then only they will be able to see the pattern of the world and get above it. That's the dao they were trying to understand and be fused with. Each cultivators have to get acknowledgement from tiandao to achieve true immortality (the correct way to say it is to share lifespan with tiandao I think? )So they will have to be as good as tiandao in the understanding of the world/dimensions tiandao controls.
They act more like greek gods I guess
Kind of reminds me of hellboy. He’s older than many humans but he acts like a kid.
I have thought about this myself a bit. I think the time spent secluded is the major maturity killer for these characters. You gain maturity by reflecting on your many social interactions. Many of the characters in the stories live excessively long lives but have few social interactions, and when they reflect, they do so on battle. While we reflect on the things we failed to say properly or the things we failed to do at all, they reflect on failing to unleash that punch properly or whether or not they should have used a different spell.
I remember reading Coiling Dragon, Linley dated a girl and it didn't work out. It was glorious. A relatable social interaction in a Xianxia. The author tried it again in Desolate Era, but it didn't go over nearly as well. I attribute it to the fact that young Linley was a vibrant character, and young Ning was so boring I almost didn't make it out of the early story in DE. But Linley rapidly lost his vibrancy in CD after that , and Ning actually became more and more interesting as he got older. Were I quit DE it seamed like Linley didn't really care about anyone but himself and his own reason for continuing was that he wanted to be the strongest. On the other hand, Ning went from blindly trying to reach the peak to needing to reach the peak to achieve his real goal. The quest for power had a purpose and he seemed to care more about people as he aged, not less.
another thing is that in the real world people need to rely on each other in order to get by in life and our actions have consequences so we have a huge incentive to actively try and learn how to socialize with others unlike in xianxia where the bigger fist is always right so strong people don't need social skills since everyone will suck up to them either way and weak people don't need social skills because strong people will look down on them either way so social skills only work on equals however if you're weak a bunch of weaklings will never stand a chance against one strong dude and if you're strong then as long as you don't run into a main character or someone stronger you will almost always be able to safely escape your peers so even if you anger everyone else it doesn't really matter so as a result why bother improving social skills when you can just improve your cultivation?
Some part of acting adult is bullshit, a front. In men having testosterone or the lacking of it also plays a role. Less testosterone may make us act less impulsive therefore "mature". These immortals have huge amounts of health and sexual health and drive.
My two cents, perhaps one of the reasons some of the character immature was because they were far too powerful and thus did not have to care what others thinking and also could literally do whatever they want. The more powerful one becomes, the more childish a person could act. Because not many or none could put a stop on their behaviour
where's your vid explaining cultivation novels?
"cultivation novels" are xianxia novels. And sometimes xuanhuan novels. I still plan to do a video about what the term 'cultivation' means.
they live their life where 99% of their life they are in seclusion training.
they don't care about day to day stuff, hence they see mortals as ants, which are insignificant as they don't live long (10 to 40 lifespan at that time for mortal)
their cultivation demands that they don't have so called knots in their heart, they must never self doubt else they will not be able to cultivate further.
So they must solve these knots using only means they know, combat...
eg. someone kills someone important to them, they feel grief, unless they are capable of truly forgiving the killer (they would have to be a saint for that), they must avenge to go on.
if they promised something they can't back out on that etc
Could u add music in the background while ur talking, nothing loud, makes it sound more pleasant
1 million years ago, the cave men were clubbing women and dragging them to caves. So u can accept they are actually insightful.
Only Li Qiye has a perfect Dao heart #EternalDuplication lmao
These mere second class mc can't even reach the apex
I love it! I just started the novel two days ago
just take a look at western and some japanese light novel that have elves in then. elves have long life span hundreds to thousand of year and a 300 year old elf girl will act like a tenage human girl. since elfs ar not human, u cant judge elf by human standard. it not really explain, most of us just accept it lol.
I always just assumed that there was something inherent to the transition from mortal to cultivator that cemented people into their personalities, and further growth from there seems to largely correlate to appearance. An elderly man could have a low cultivation base at age 80 or he could be an immortal thousands of years old, but they're going to act more alike than some kid who is 80 but appears 15 because he rapidly cultivated to whatever level slowed his physical aging.
On the other hand, imagine you are several books into a novel. The MC has progressed through several realms, gone on to bigger continents/other worlds, and has arrived back at the position of (deceptively) small fish in a big pond. His antagonists have to be a couple centuries old to pose a suitable threat in terms of cultivation...but somehow the arrogant young master characters are basically the same old arrogant young masters, except usually more extreme in their vices.
They do spend a lot of time in mediation... which is basically like staying in your room all day, you won’t get experience and won’t mature.
People on average behave the way they can get away with + the way they were taught/brought up to, and both of those are determined in a big way by society standards for behavior.. which in turn get affected by extended lifespans. So in a way longer total life expectancy does lead to, lets say "an option" for later emotional maturity for some characters, or maybe partial maturity (as in behaving maturely at large, but having some immature sparks here and there, which you can call a distorted maturity).
And the above obviously overlaps with and is supported by the other points discussed in the video.
Does immortal cultivation really exist??
Yes it does. Wahhahahah
Can be view as someone is comparing game cheat code between others. Who have the most or less. Since cultivation world is about absolute power. So acting childish even you already 1000 years old is still acceptable.
Another thing is that the age people act is often in relation to the other people they are around. I've known people who acted quite childish, even though they were an adult, simply because they were young in comparison to the group they were hanging around with. They felt like the 'baby' in that social context and so behaved like that. So I think in the cultivation world, if everyone is living a really long time then the social 'age groups' that form will mean that when a 100 year old is conversing with a 300 year old, he may be acting a bit like a kid, even though he had the emotional maturity to act otherwise.
I do actually think many of them act their age though, however, many of them are still spoiled due to daft elders or not contemplating the dao of mutual respect. However I wouldn't say that any character acts in a fitting manner for any age, the only character that I can think off on the top of my head that acts his age is Jiang Chen from Sovereign of the Three Realms, maybe because he is incredibly ancient and almost all-knowing. He might be lofty but he can adapt and show respect to those he deem worthy, and then it's life long respect.
Otherwise power gets to ones head, if you're strong enough to get whatever you want, then why bother with developing interpersonal skills, do you really need to say thanks to someone when you don't need to buy anything and can just take it through force? It is not only the actors influencing the world but the world influencing the actor.
I consider the cultivators like some extra super royalty. Since they were young normal people looked at them as gods and they could do almost anything they wished. So they never had any need to question themselves and what they did.
I'm writing a novel on the new QI originals thing they opened a few weeks ago where a westerner gets reincarnated in a xianxia world and looks at their behavior through his morality. It's called Cultivating Civilization if someone wants to check it out.
don't a lot of the immortals start out as mortals? I know in some some comics the disciples are required to travel the world before the can go higher in the sect in order to let go of attachments.
Ok
Mainly, even hundreds of years should encourage more extreme personalities, like some very eccentric characters which are rare in many novels. These characters should be incredibly far-sighted, even in at least one small autistic way, but...
Unless it's someone who gets along well with the protagonist, they will almost always be carbon copied arrogant vice-driven garbage characters. Even if their introduction is strong, and their potential is secured, their finality and evolution is hollow and without nuance, or enough variation.
I started reading Manga again, and Japanese novels. I find the history, culture, and nuance infinitely more engaging, even if the stories aren't so grandiose and over-achieving. In fact, those stories tend to be very humble and their appeal is-- whether the story is even good or not-- from getting *lost* in the details. This sounds great to me but...
Ironically, a lot of people reading Chinese novels just complain that a chapter was too boring and that they skimmed through it all... these people, the most vocal ones, could probably completely drop a novel if it tried to incorporate more consistent nuance and details. It sometimes feels more like the authors are just living in the safe realm of what they know, as far as arcs go, and they completely leave the explorative aspect to the creation of the story itself.
But here is the thing.. living in such a dangerous world... why are all the clans not actually smart enough to properly control their children. I mean, they are people who have to deal with a dangerous world, but they have no proper sense of danger for themselves or their family.
And frankly, I think the real reason they have the mental capacity of 5 year old children is because it's just easier to write. I mean, you said it yourself, they are just kinda spit out and don't use as much time.. and these things are tropes, not really characters...
Most immortals are really essentric in nature...
that's sad how the excuse for mistakes in Chinese novels is because its not the point of the novel to write a something decent to read without having the reader literally think in their mind there is something wrong with this novel's main character, how did he lose his "genius intellect" that the author wrote about back in the previous 20 chapters.
I think "maturity" all depends on environment.
So, if you were this guy that has lived 500,000,000 years, and had to fight people to the death all the time over cultivation resources or weapons, you wouldn't act like some 70-year-old that grew up tending to cows and sheep in a farm and working in a textile factory in the safety of the U.S.
"Kids these days and their newfangled gadgets!"
It makes complete sense to me that people of these stories would act differently from humans of Earth that have likely never even had their lives threatened.
Cause age don't matter if you have the power of god, that is why they act like teen or a kid and adult base on the mood they are interested.
Characters can't be smarter than the author... Give him a break.