I'm about to turn 66 in a few days. I spent my life having a certain mind-set, if I built a guitar or bought one I'd do the same things to it just because I thought that's the way things are done. I'd not even put a tone control on ones I built and cut them out of the ones I'd buy, I never took the time to learn how to use tone controls. About 6-7 years ago I was at Guitar Center trying Les Paul's. None sounded "good" to me, mostly too bright. I had just played one, didn't "like" it, hung it back on the wall. I stepped away, a younger guy picked that same guitar up, played a few notes, then that creamy tone I was looking for came out of that guitar, it didn't sound that way when I played it. I asked the guy what he was doing to get "that" sound. He rolled the tone control back a bit. That's all he did. I had to rethink most everything I'd done due to misinformation or just stubbornness. My tone quest has been fun and informative. That's how I discovered Dylan Talks Tone.
Just re-read this, I'd left some holes in my comments explaining "what I did to everything". I'd read in guitar player in the 80's about the timeless discussion how smaller value pots kill treble, the higher the pot value, more highs get thru. The writer suggested everyone put 1 meg pots in their guitars to get full frequency spectrum. In another monthly how to by the same writer, he suggested adjusting the pickups so high they almost touch the strings to get full output. Not sure if the "cut the tone control out of the circuit to get more mojo" was by the same idiot, but I did all three suggestions to every guitar I put my hands on. I didn't understand why my strat sounded so badly, I hated it, so I changed pickups but did the same thing, it sounded badly too, so I traded it away. Imagine my shock when I learned the pickups were too high. I'd taken part of 3 or more magazine articles and abstractly applied what I THOUGHT I'd read with mostly bad results. Before internet (here goes a "had to walk to school uphill, both ways" story) I obtained my information 3 ways, magazine, library, and word of mouth. Thinking back, most of the people that gave me guitar advice were either high, or just stupid, but I digress. I feel foolish for blaming what were otherwise excellent instruments for me making the tone and sound stink. My go-to phrase for one of these guitars was "it sounds like a TURD". Oh, well.
To clarify my standpoint, I've played just about every genre from Gospel to bluegrass to blues since 1972, I've not found that magic guitar or pickup that does everything I've needed. Besides my hands and string choices, the pickup and resulting tone is the next item in the equation. I use a variety of amps as the genre and size of the venue dictates, so usually the guitar choice is dictated by the same requirements. What I mentioned regarding that Les Paul being too bright, it wasn't giving me the sound I was after for that purchase. I also explained that I'd done the same things to every guitar I owned instead of learning how to use that tone control. It amazed me that it actually made that much difference in shaping the tone. I've been on the "tone quest" since then so I'm about 18 years past THAT revelation. I'm not so closed minded these days, I read and experiment as much as possible, an auto accident ended my live gigging. Your explanation was thorough and I certainly appreciate the input. At this point of my by guess or by gosh engineering I'm experimenting with bass cut and passive mid-range cuts, I'm intrigued with the cocked wah sounds possible and how 3 tone cut controls interact. I'm enjoying my journey and really enjoy Dylan's posts. Thanks again.
I share this pro tip with very few people. Mainly because they really do not know what they do not know and just play what is stock. So here it goes: use 500k pots on all your guitars. Wire the volume and tone knob like a 50’s Les Paul junior. (Vintage wiring vs Modern) use the value .010- .015 for the tone cap. If you want to roll back the volume or tone when using single coils to get more of those stratty tones then you will be inclined to use your ears more and also more feel of the strings and magnets resisting your pick attack. Tone really is in your hands, some guitars do this better out of the box, most have to be modified to this recipe to really have it all, especially in HSS. Now, you have the 500k which the humbucker loves, you are twice the value for single coils, you can roll off the volume and tone and solve that, plus.... using the value of tone cap I prescribed, you will actually use your tone knob more than ever before as the value (.010-.015mfd) shifts the mid and treble points like a partially cocked Wah wah pedal, instead of that .05 horrible muted muffled muddy sound Fender chose to use when guitar players would mimic bass guitar on a 6 string while recording in the 50’s, and no modern players really use the tone knob because of that fact. Playing your amp is now your new concern. You can dial up higher than you would normally use for volume and tones, and use the volume and tone knob on the guitar for boosting volume and tone without a pedal... ala Hendrix ... you will love this setup more than anything and will play more and use the volume and tone knobs and never want anything else forever thereafter...... do a video with this idea.... boost the amps volume and tone controls and dial it back from the guitar and when you want a volume or frequency change, use those knobs on the guitar instead of walking to the amp, or stepping on pedals.....you will be free to play and have it all at your fingertips.....you will thank me later tonechasers!!!
@@bradleyshuppert3393 Chris Buck did a video called "The CHEAPEST Les Paul Tone HACK? | Friday Fretworks" His LP has about 330K pots from Gibson. He had the guitar upgraded to 500K post with new caps. There was a bit of difference but not as much as you would think.
A lot of people seem to think they're missing some magic component in their signal chain that's holding them back. There isn't. You just aren't practicing enough. Stop obsessing over caps and start obsessing over being the best player you can be. I need this advice too.
You won't sound good if you don't play well this is true, but if you've ever modded a guitar and achieved hitting that sweet spot of tone you'd understand that tone isn't entirely in your fingers. There's a point to chasing it, but there's also tons of variables. The biggest being how you sound in your room isn't how you sound being recorded with a mic, or to someone 100 yards away listening to you in a mix. That said I feel how I sound to myself is important to feeling inspired to play. To each their own though. Everyone should have a different perspective and experience. Also I agree with this guy's perspective in the video for the most part. I've heard it argued though that there's a tolerance for variance in value in caps and cheaper ones apparently tend to have wider value variance meaning they can vary a little more higher and lower from the actual value in performance than some of their more expensive competition. I don't know enough to say if that's true though, and that didn't seem to be addressed in this video. I'm curious to know if there's much truth to that claim.
That's true to an extent, but people often don't know how to dial in an amp either. Usually dial in too much gain and bass, then can't figure out why their tone sucks
Global Statement: As an older EE and now custom guitar creator, I find your videos to be the most accurate, articulate, logical, myth-busting, BS-mitigating and consistently helpful content on the subjects of guitar electronics and tone. UPSHOT: Your efforts are greatly appreciated.
His content hooks up with my failed engineers (stupid calculus) understanding of physics. But hey all that math eventually helped understand data for stock speculation 🤣
I completely concur! I hate myths, conspiracy theories, fake news, false informatoon, superstitions, the supernatural, paranormal, metaphysical, mythological, lies, and bs. And there is nothing better than busting myths and lies by debunking them with truth and real knowledge!!
@@drivinsouth651 Than I can gladly tell you that mechanical exitement has a completely objectively measurable effect on the capacitance, and that effect is different for different types of capacitors. If you HEAR that is another thing. But there IS a measurable difference. I find it funny how he lists "heat, voltage, current - all things that we do not have in guitars -" but the obvious thing - physical vibration - is left out of all things. Again: if you actually hear that is another story.
Great video! I love your vids! I will say though just an interesting fact I learned during my 9 years as an electrician is that the one thing electricity will never run through is completely pure 100% distilled water (basically the chemical of pure H20)! When electricity runs through normal water it runs through the irons and zincs and minerals in the water! Just thought that was an interesting fact I learned in tradeschool!
GREAT explanation. I also play Hammond B3 organ. There are 88 pickups [tonewheels] , each with their own cap. When we used to do a 'cap job', some people didn't like the resulting sound. They had become accustomed to the 'drifted' sound; which, on a B3, is rather muddy. After their ears became tuned in, they found the B3 much more tone responsive; to drawbar changes.
I definitely would NOT argue with you about anything! I am 66 yrs. old and I am amazed at your knowledge and out&out common sense. I just want to thank you for sharing your knowledge and even your random thoughts. I have gained a lot from your videos and I love how passionate you are about guitars. Please keep up the GREAT work. Mark B., Virginia Beach
Dylan, great discussion and topic! Just bought a Kay K161V reissue and started making a list of everything that I “needed” to change... (having the pickups rebuilt using US materials, replacing the pots/caps..etc). After watching this video the only things I’m changing now are the 3-way switch (to a CRL) as the stock switch is failing already, Tuner machines, output jack (to Switchcraft), and bridge saddle to Tru Arc. Thank you for approaching everything you talk about in a subjective manner. Keep up the great work!
I love that you said that it sounds better in some people's _eyes_ whether it was intentional or not. Some people really DO listen with their eyes first and foremost.
I don't feel any particular way about caps. I'm just learning. Right now I am on the down hill slope of a 2 humbucker rewire job. I learned about polarity. Testing humbuckers for resistance. Pot values versus humbucker tonality. Now I'm "nerding" out about the bridge pickup. I had to drop in a 250K tone pot. I have a one Meg volume pot. The caps are .022's. There are two DPDT switches (on, on, on) for dual sound parallel, series and coil splitting. Blah, blah, blah. Now the question really is what will my bridge humbucker sound like. Will I swap out the cap or the pot? Or will I like the darkness of it as I go from one coil to two depending...? Should I wire the switch for the North coil or South on this bridge pickup? All very interesting and fun to me. So thanks for all your cool vids Dylan.
Saw some paper & oil caps for $80 each today at a thrift store lol. I hate orange drops cause of how they look but when they're in the guitar I don't have to look at them. I use the same cheap ceramic caps as I do in the pedals I build on guitars I wire. works out great & at 10 cents a pop from tayda.... better to put my money into other things such as vintage wine.
Now I feel like I got took on my honey bee cap's in my 2021 50's Goldtop! I looked everywhere for this kind of info and now I find it when I am almost done! I am finishing another build with five Russian cap's on a Varitone in a lp with three pickups.
I have a question (ignore the handle, shared computer) but for those of us who subscribe to the DIY thic and dismantle old tv's and stuff to harvest parts do you have any good advice or thoughts on what items we should look for and why? It seems capacitors would be one of hte easier bits to pull from old electronics
nah man caps dont worth it.. focus on big expensive stuff like transformers, tubes, power transistors, heatsinks, anything mechanical like potentiometers and switches, big inductors, cables, that sort of jazz, also anything you find useful obviously why not..
I hate that Ive just found your videos. I love how comprehensive and helpful these videos are especially the explanations being in guitar application as well. I’ve spoken to engineers(asking specifically about this) that haven’t been able to put it as clearly or as quickly as you have. Thank you
I don't know, but I've heard the reason that the vintage bumblebee caps might sound "better" is that they are not very good performing caps compared to modern caps; they are "leaky". And it's this phenomenon that can make them sound different.
If you measure two capacitors of different kind with the same value, you get different readings depending on the frequency your capacitance meter are using (often 100Hz to 1Khz). But since guitars just handle audible frequencies below 20khz I don't think it matters at all. There is a difference on choosing types when you are talking about Mhz/Ghz range. I think you should select one that is easy to solder with a long lifespan. Or just use the one with the coolest colour.
Personally, I first choose the value I like, then I install the ones that have the look I like the most in that guitar 😀 Paper in Oil...tropical fish, orange drop...they all have a place in my guitars. There is no real difference in sound, but I hate to see those small ceramic disk caps and always swap them out. Still makes me feel I did something to make my guitar more personal
thx very helpful,I have a 92 clapton strat with the midboost,I changed my pickups to the srv and a hot rail.with the boost off the srv pickups sound a little muddy I was thinking of taking out the circuit and starting from scratch?is this the pickups or the circuit making it muddy.much appreciated
Sounds like the circuit! You now have a hum bucker wired to a single coil pick up volume pot! IF you go to HB from SC, you NEED to replace the volume pot from 250K, to @ least 500K, or it WILL sound muddy, and it WON'T be as loud as you expect, or drive your amp as hard! I had this problem years ago on an old guitar. Had a good Duncan put in it, but the twats that did it, NEVER upgraded the volume pot to a 500K, and I always wondered WHY the guitar sounded muddy!
I just rewired my Strat using two orange capacitors: .047 to the neck PU tone pot shared with the middle pickup and .022 to the middle PU tone pot now occupied by the bridge pickup; my #1 Tele was also rewired w/a .047 orange capacitor while Tele #2 is 'Esquired' w/a .022 orange cap on 3 while retaining the .022 green cap it came with.
I watched this right before wiring up a Fernandez L-50 strat I own. It has Seymour Duncan Texas specials. This is what I changed . One of the screws was on the verge of stripping out, so I installed brass EZ Locs with 1/4-20 thread inside. I drilled out the screw holes to accept the bolts. I replaced the bridge that was a LR Baggs acoustic with a wide spacing. It was too wide for the width of the neck, and the E sting would slide off the top of the neck down past the 5th fret. I bought a Mex bridge plate with block and used some Tusq saddles I had laying around. I had used them before and liked them. Now I was ready to wire up a all new hand made push back wire harness from scratch, done it before many times. I decided to use J Vaughan-Wacker(don't know who this is) diagram with a .022 cap on first tone, and a .047 on the second tonepot. New jack new strings plugged it in and it was so trebley in all positions I couldn't believe it. I used both orange drop caps, and double checked all wiring connection with a pair of magnifiers before assembling it. In the past I have tried orange drops, and never left them in. This guitar has a small routing and space is tight, so I decided to try them, besides this was different than I had tried in the past. OK, they are coming back out first opportunity I get. Before it sounded very much like my US strat, and I very much liked the sound of it. It sounds totally differnt now. If you want to torture someone with ear splitting treble, then this is for you. The caps I took out were a little tiny treble bleed cap, and a small cap half the size of an M&M, but it sounded really good. Well I guess that's my three cents worth.
...so I have a number of old Paper and Oil capacitors from my Dad's shed, he's a electrical engineer and a bit of a border. I like the imperfect vintage sound having played a few old guitars. The am tempted to try some out in my Early 1990's Les Paul... any tips?
I have put PIO capacitors in two of my guitars and I can tell you they changed the tone drastically. Anything that affercts the current form the pickup to the amp WILL have an effect.
On a little different note, under the same logic, tubes built to the same spec should sound the exact same as the older manufactured ones. Right? Same with transistors?
Very valuable informations! Thanks Dylan! 😃👍🏼 I‘ve put 0.015mF orange drops in 2 humb. guitars with diff. scale length and on a Telly style with noiseless SC‘s. I like to have usable tones from 10-0. I intend to do the same in other two strat/superstrat type, wich are already warm sounding. My LP style „black beauty" got 0.022mF, for the growl. I „know“ the difference between the types of caps is negligible to non existent, but I generally don't "trust" things if they are too small… so I chose orange drops…and they look nice too. But for treble bleeds I use the small ceramic caps and resistors.
Great vid, thanks for breaking it down. One thing, I can't seem to find, is they vaule (?) of the capacitor. If I was to go to the electronics store and by a cap (any type) what is the value? I am runnig a stock P-90 through 500K vol and tone pots to a input jack. Thanks in advance.
Dylan made an excellent point about old caps starting to go bad and beginning to act like resistors. Check the ESR of those old caps. So yeah, when a crappy paper cap stops being a cap, no doubt it sounds different than modern caps.
@@drivinsouth651 For those who can't read a blue print, you'll have to put your capacitors in the oven. Those who can read a blue print know will know that the design of the circuit determines the "tone." The reason that brown fenders sound different than black face which sound different than silver face fenders is the circuits are different.
@@murfbass But which one should I put in my Strat? I put the parts from an Ibanez RG loaded pickguard in my Ibanez GIO and it sounds better than any of my other guitars. The Ibanez loaded pickguard cost $97.00 on eBay. The $500.00 worth of pickups, Emerson blender, 10 way switch, and Qijack I put in my Strat should theoretically sound better. I was thinking of putting Ibanez parts in my Strat. What should I do, lol? Thanks!
After about 30 years, the onboard effects stuff on my Cort flying V started to fail. I'd never really used the stuff, didn't care for how it performed or sounded, so I just ripped everything out and rewired it like a Gibson V, with 3 pots and a 3-way switch. I used 500k pots and a .022 uf orange drop. This gave me a top end so trebly it almost sounds like a single coil, and I can still roll the tone knob back to get those more classic Gibson tones. So more attenuation out of the pot, for greater range out of the pickup. Win/win.
45 years ago, when I was a young boy, I had; a cheap Teisco, a three month 7th grade electronics course, and a Radio Shack a block from home. I spent many months, experimenting with as many different value capacitors, and fixed resistors, as I could find. I made my own Veritone, replete with resistors, before I knew it was actually a thing. I only did it, so I could compare cap values easier. Then, I tried phase shifting, coil tapping, (later splitting, when I added some cheap Framus humbuckers). I used push/pull pots, DPST, DPDT switches. Anything I could find, at Radio Shack. When I brought what I had done to my electronics teacher. He laughed at me, and told me I was wasting my time. My poor Teisco looked like Frankenstein’s monster, all the extra pickups, switches & knobs. It looked just awful, but it could make so many different sounds, through my 15watt converted stereo/turntable, into amplifier. It was crazy. Edit: typo
I have about 25 Russian PIO caps covering I think three of the common guitar values, sitting in a box for the last 4 years, still haven't bothered to fit one into a harness, but they look so cool and full of vintage mojo. As we say in Australia," it's all about the vibe". One of the big time pick up makers, I'm sure it was Seymour D, confessed he could not tell the difference in a blind test and he's been listening to his pups for near 50 years.
My Gibsom Custom Shop 1959 LP M2M has giant Bumble Bee caps and my Gibson Custom Les Paul Custom has ceramic button caps. I wondering if I should replace the ceramic button caps with the legit Bumble Bees.
I’m subscribing. After 4 of your videos, I genuinely enjoy the needing out over science of music. You’re a fascinating guy, can’t wait to see more from you
Yeah that's a tough talk... not many people are ready to hear it... and It's true, if you want to sound like a vintage guitar, check its cap value, and duplicate it... dont go read the original value of it and try to put a paper in oil cap in your guitar with the original value, it won't sound the same...
Duplicating original values is a mistake many people make when trying to recreate a 60 year old amp with fresh components. The "mojo" in those old amps is there because the values of those 60 year old parts have drifted over the decades. I heard clones that sound incredible but, good or bad, they don't sound exactly like an original.
I don't understand what you are talking about. isn't the reason you love that old vintage amp or vintage guitar due to the recordings you've heard and fallen in love with that use that gear? like the classic rock sound of those vintage Les Paul and Marshall amps got on the classic Led Zeppelin Albums? or that unmistakable tone Jimi Hendrix got on his recordings? All of that gear was brand new when those recordings were being made and the caps when all in spec. if you really want to sound like that vintage gear then re-cap your amps, put fresh tubes in and set the bias correctly and re-cap your guitar with the correct values. there! true vintage sound! anything else is just a lie that has made people spend way too much money on old gear that in reality was out of spec and not working properly!!!! sagging caps will over time damage your gear, it's not sound it is creating it is bad electronics, see your getting DC leakage and that is just bad!
I love this channel, you're talking about stuff that I've been saying for years to my naive friends who are constantly dropping big money to chase their perfect tone based entirely on BS hype from people who don't know what they're talking about!
It's funny how when we talk, we almost always try putting it, "into words." haha. As a 60-year-old beginning guitar player, I'm learning a lot here. Thanks my brother.
So does it make any difference at all what ones you put in the guitar? Is there any certain best or good ones to use? Do any of them change the tones at all? I am not here to fuss or argue about anything, I just want to learn a lot about this tech stuff.
I’m wiring up a new Strat build right now. I have orange drop and PIO caps on hand. Gonna put one set in and play for awhile, then when I change the strings I’ll swap them out for the others and see what they sound like.
Older video, but thanks for putting it out there. I have a 2005 Schecter C-1 Classic that comes standard with Duncan Jazz/JB pickup combo that I expected to just sing. For whatever reason they decided to use a .047uf cap on the tone control which made the pickups very muddy IMO. I played the guitar for 16 years like that, a bit disappointed with the pickups. Decided to completely change the electronics in the control cavity. Pulled out the Chinese 5 way switch and install a 3 way switch craft blade switch, swapped the pots for CTS push-pull 500k audio taper pots, did a partial coil split to mitigate the volume loss using 1K and 2K resistors to ground from the split, and put in an orange drop .022uf cap. Sure it was a lot of changes, but in reality the stock switch and pots were getting scratchy and it needed a refresh. After the mods the guitar now sounds amazing. Much more articulate, much better tonal variations from the tone control, all the richness and harmonic undertones I expected from the pickups is now there. Curious what really made the difference, I started playing with caps. The old pots measured out at 500k so I was pretty confident that wasn’t what made it sound so dark. The old ceramic cap was .047 as advertised. In researching many of your videos I learned that .047 is more to take the high end of single coils and .022 was a winner for hum buckers. I decided for kicks I would put that .047 back in just to see what happened and surprisingly it sounded excellent, but much darker when the tone was rolled completely down, dumping everything to the cap. Kind of expected. But with the tone at “10” it retained all the brightness and articulation I was getting from the .022uf orange drop. Anyway, there was certainly some part of that old circuit that was robbing the signal and making the poor thing sound like crap. I could go on experimenting, but I just rest comfortably knowing it now sounds great. I suspect maybe the old No name pots had something to do with it? Sorry for the long post. LoL. Any insight you can offer as to why it used to sound dark and muddy, and it now sounds brilliant would be appreciated. It’s seriously like I used to have a blanket over the amp cabinet, and after the electronics swap it’s now free and beautifully articulate. Strange to me. Glad for the cheap fix, but my curiosity is still there!
Haven't watched the whole video yet, but you want me express myself - I'm one of those nerds who modded my p-bass to put in a paper in oil capacitor. I have no idea of the electronics, but I just read about it on reddit, and took it to a shop to perform the mod. Now, I'll watch the end of your undoubtedly excellent video. [edit: having watched the video - oh, crap!]
Thanks Dylan for making my life easier with your knowledge, i was so obsessed about replacing my guitars capacitors to orange drop to bumble bee capacitor! Thank you!
"But I can hear the difference" is the exact same bs as "but this one goes to eleven". If a customer wants to spend an extra 25 bucks on a fancy cap, so be it. But I'm doing allright with my 5 cents caps. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
I wonder if when that bumble bee capacitor starts to age it has that sweet spot at 25-30 years old? I know our USA voltage has gone from 110 volts to 125volts at the wall. Using an attenuator is key for an older amp. Then again there are some great sounding stock epiphone lps, and I believe that is from the musician. Controlling every aspect of your sound makes you a more consistent performer, same with any tradesman with his personal tools. Dylan always goes deep dive into the science, history and tech, it shows passion. Never disappointed. Second time I watched this video through.
ok, first off, awesome video and explanation. So that said, we all agree that the value is the value, the end! while choosing materials to get a specific value, when trying to get to the vintage "failure" value, what is happening to that old oil in paper stuff as it gets old and dries out and "fails"? what value should one be looking for in a new longer lasting better material Cap? what were the intended values in the early guitar years, and what have the degraded to present day?
I trust and value your opinion, thats why I am watching YOUR video. some ppl just want to argue because their lives are vapid and they are under stimulated.
I like to think of capacitors as balloons in a circuit, they add voltage back in when the voltage drops like a balloon would in an air system. Pots are like electrical valves and resistors are like a restriction in a piece of pipe slowing down the amount of air passing through. It helps me visualize what is happening. Great video. Thank you.
Somewhere in my junk box, I have a box with a rotary switch and a bunch of capacitors in it. It has alligator clips, so it can be quickly connected for blind testing. When customers ask about cap types and values during a pot swap, I hook it up, and let them decide for themselves. Everyone can consistently hear large differences in capacitance, some notice smaller changes, but no-one has ever correctly identified PIO vs Mylar vs polyester- or even ceramic.
I just converted my 09 Traditional LP from modern wiring to 50s. I used all the factory pots and caps so the only variable is the wiring route. I noticed a distinct increase in the brightness of the guitar and the "sweep" of the tone pots. Rolling the tone down from 10 it gets dark at a much slower rate (5 now sounds like 7 or 8 before). This has me wondering if the tone caps are more or less important depending on which wiring setup you have?!
Yes I like to use 50s wiring on my Teles to omit the Treble bleed... I do not like the curve on that. The 50s wiring to me works better with low val caps .. I went from a .047 to a .015 and have a nice usable tone sweep that does not get too dark. use CTS 250k -300 kpots
I don't have a view - I just want to understand what the deal is because my pick up maker asked me whether I want orange drop or paper in oil and i have no idea Now having watched the video - i get it - it makes no difference and i will probably go with the orange drop Thanks Dylan
Excellent, as usual. People miss the fact that the capacitor types they used in vintage guitars were used because they were what was commonly available, not because they had some known musical advantage. Amp capacitors were way overkill for guitars. There are alternatives today. Now, pardon me, I have to go get some of those $75 vintage capacitors to make my tone better!
Additionally, quality of products back then was much better than the workmanship of modern products, this can especially be seen in modern vehicles, where technology is mated with cheap poor construction quality. I believe that is the reason vintage guitars can sound so good. Japanese guitars gained respect because of the pride they took in trying to make the best guitar they could make.
2 года назад
Wow! Finally, someone who tells it the way it is. I'm so happy to have found your RUclips channel. I'm a total newbie, and I was seeing this "thing" about "paper in oil" capacitor and could simply not find any explanation. Now, as we say in "Canadian French", I will go to bed less stupid. 😉
What you just said made more sense to me than any of the discussions I've read over the past 20 years. I don't know anything about capacitors. I never heard a difference during different tests. The only difference I've heard is on a Lolar video where they change between a 0.015,0.022, and 0.047. All that did was change the travel and depth of the tone knob. So, a person might choose a different value. But, it's good to know that the different types have more to do with the use environment which, on a guitar is a sealed cavity with some vibration and a benign temperature environment. Thanks so much for another great video!
Thanks Dylan, old thread but very useful and totally makes sense. People!... It's an electronic circuit! Vintage choices as you said, they used what components where available in that period of time. Actually newer technologies will probably last longer since they don't use oil which will dry out over time but do exactly the same thing. Thanks fo explaining and exposing the myths but there will always be those who disagree, hell with them! Lol. I learned a ton of info from watching your channel! Keep up the great work.
I love, absolutely LOVE no b.s. approaches to things. I am the same way with brass instruments as a repairman. Just think of how many guitar players, whom you've crushed, who can't play, but have a basement full of incredible guitars that they are tweaking and modding with special caps and redistors. "The tone is in your fingers." Jaco Pastorius. Any questions?
Think I subscribed after I watched the third or fourth video of yours I found. You provide a wealth of information in layman's terms. Thank you for that, even though I'm sure you, Dylan won't read this. Just begining to mod some of my guitars and your explanations will save me a lot of trial and error.
Good talk! Thanks! I put very high output humbuckers in my Epi SG. Did not change pots or caps. Bought some Russian green pio caps. Installed. Sound was noticeably “compressed”, “warmer”, whatever ...was noticeably different. The HBs were rated at 16-18kohm, I believe (GFS “Bigmouth”) Maybe some other factor than the cap material???
OK, I'm commenting before watching, as requested. I have many guitars, and have tried lots of subtle mods. I hear what people say about the capacitor's material not being a contributing factor. Now, I don't claim to be able to hear the difference between alkaline vs. copper top batteries in my pedals, like Eric Johnson. Someone told me that Eric also recently said that he can hear the difference in different jacks. Met Eric twice. Nice guy. Very humble. If he can hear a swapped out jack, good for him. I don't have dog ears. But I do have decent ears, as I do a lot of mixing and mastering, etc. And I've been playing for 45 years. But I know for a fact, that I've tried various brands of capacitors, and heard different outcomes. The paper-in-oil wasn't snake oil. Sprague Vitamin Qs sounded very noticeably different to my hears than the stock orange drops. There was a certain silvery sheen type of aural exciter processor kind of difference to certain frequencies in the highs. Kind of what a delay or ambient stereo reverb does to high notes. They were softer, more sparkly, a little more even, or had more musical alignment. And the guitar is one I just used live two weeks ago again, and the same holds true, it does in fact sound better with the upgraded caps. Not sure what the magical unicorn ingredient is. Possibly the material that the signal passes through contributes in some way. Ok, now watching your video to hear you tell me I'm wrong and it doesn't matter at all. :D
Thank you for this!! This helped me a lot! I understood most of this already but there was always the "mystery" behind it. Doing HVAC I've studied some electrical stuff and I was going to try to read about all this but getting the knowledge this way and from the Guitar standpoint made it so much better and easier to understand and I didn't have to learn a bunch of stuff that I won't use right now to get these answers. Thank you!! I do use 1959 Paper In Oil Bumblebee caps that have drifted into spec. So I have the look haha but not the "magic" of a cap that drifted out of spec.
I have no religious feelings vis-a-vis PiO caps, or any other kind when it comes to that... but as I had a chance to try a russian NOS PiO I noticed a very interesting fenomena: with the orange drop on my precision bass sometimes the rolled off sound seemed out of tune... but when you check with a tuner - all is spot on! Then I put the PiO and never again had that problem again! Is it possible that they affect somehow differently the harmonics in the process of cutting off the higher frequences...?
Hey I seen you on Texas Toast, I was actually looking for a video to explain this and I think you've answered my question exactly. So I guess I'll keep buiying orange drops.
Great video and very informative. I'm currently working on a bass and ordered some CTS pots for it (in preparation for swapping out the pickups and controls) and they came with an "orange drop" capacitor. I've been watching videos on how to do the work myself (the soldering and whatnot)and they're using paper and oil so I've been wondering if I should get a paper and oil capacitor "because it will sound better." Glad I found your video to clear up this whole capacitor argument. Thanks a lot!!!
I sat down with a bundle of different capacitors for a day running a signal through them one at a time(ripped out if a 70s TV set.Grundig I think) and when I used a yellow tube shaped •5cm x 1cm plastic one I stopped and permanently soldered it into a stock Stratocaster because it sounded nicer than all the rest. I don't know the values cos it was almost blank but it was yellow.
I have no idea about Caps. But from experimenting i have boticed a hear a difference between different typrs. quite amazing really. Thanks Dylan awesome video :)
Have To change my paper and oil capacitors in my 73 amp because I hear they are bleeding/leaking ? How can I make my Stratocaster sound more like my Gibson Les Paul? Deeper less than?
Maybe do a tone comparison..? This all makes sense to me.. But is there a slight tonal difference? Or what tolerances might the old ones that are out of spec be? Ones that might sound good to some folks... I am not here to cause drama but I wonder how close in comparison the tone is.. Looking on a scope or something... Microscope...lol.. Thanks for another great video!
I don’t use my tone knob and I wanted to switch it out with a tesi kill switch that’s goes into the tone pot hole and it had no instructions. When I connected it the bridge pickup sounded like it lost tone and the kill switch only worked on the bridge pickup. Can anyone help me out with this because I want to learn how to do this on my own.
You asked to write a comment before watching the entire video, so what I think about tone capacitors: their value affects the frequency response as a part of a filter with pickup inductance, resistance and internal capacity. The dielectric material means less, but because of the differencies in dielectric loss tangent it affects the phase shifts and you can slightly hear that in attacks. So nothing wrong with experimenting here
Could maybe cover installation of cap direction, especially with PIO caps, I have found some caps sound off and have had to flip them….. I as well have tested several different cap types with the same values.. I have heard differences when making comparisons to each other and at times to themselves. Usually when completing a build for a customer I will check different cap types, values, and direction to find the one that works best for the guitar…just some thoughts to consider…
Very awesome video. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the manner in which capacitors function in a guitar is also why it doesn't matter which way the outside foil is connected, although in electronics theory (if you're absolutely OCD), it would be facing toward the tone pot, yes?
Good capacitor explanation! I upgrade vintage audio components. Wanted your take on "Audio Grade" capacitors vs the "standard" grade with same value/type. Would you recommend if price was not that much different.
Ive been useing 393k regular capacitors solderd on the tone pot to ground no bigger than a finger nail both same size i used aligator clips on the grond of the tone and the bottom positive lug and swapped a green one with a red same size same value the red one had a duller sound but tighter fequency the green was brighter with looser fequency why
Dylan, just got a really good deal on a 2019 HC Gibby LP Classic. I love the tone...don’t think I’ll do anything to it...is there anything compelling, aside from pickups, that you’d suggest I consider doing? PCBs don’t scare me at all.
I'm about to turn 66 in a few days. I spent my life having a certain mind-set, if I built a guitar or bought one I'd do the same things to it just because I thought that's the way things are done. I'd not even put a tone control on ones I built and cut them out of the ones I'd buy, I never took the time to learn how to use tone controls. About 6-7 years ago I was at Guitar Center trying Les Paul's. None sounded "good" to me, mostly too bright. I had just played one, didn't "like" it, hung it back on the wall. I stepped away, a younger guy picked that same guitar up, played a few notes, then that creamy tone I was looking for came out of that guitar, it didn't sound that way when I played it. I asked the guy what he was doing to get "that" sound. He rolled the tone control back a bit. That's all he did. I had to rethink most everything I'd done due to misinformation or just stubbornness. My tone quest has been fun and informative. That's how I discovered Dylan Talks Tone.
Just re-read this, I'd left some holes in my comments explaining "what I did to everything". I'd read in guitar player in the 80's about the timeless discussion how smaller value pots kill treble, the higher the pot value, more highs get thru. The writer suggested everyone put 1 meg pots in their guitars to get full frequency spectrum. In another monthly how to by the same writer, he suggested adjusting the pickups so high they almost touch the strings to get full output. Not sure if the "cut the tone control out of the circuit to get more mojo" was by the same idiot, but I did all three suggestions to every guitar I put my hands on. I didn't understand why my strat sounded so badly, I hated it, so I changed pickups but did the same thing, it sounded badly too, so I traded it away. Imagine my shock when I learned the pickups were too high. I'd taken part of 3 or more magazine articles and abstractly applied what I THOUGHT I'd read with mostly bad results. Before internet (here goes a "had to walk to school uphill, both ways" story) I obtained my information 3 ways, magazine, library, and word of mouth. Thinking back, most of the people that gave me guitar advice were either high, or just stupid, but I digress. I feel foolish for blaming what were otherwise excellent instruments for me making the tone and sound stink. My go-to phrase for one of these guitars was "it sounds like a TURD". Oh, well.
@@Lamster66 thanks for the insight.
To clarify my standpoint, I've played just about every genre from Gospel to bluegrass to blues since 1972, I've not found that magic guitar or pickup that does everything I've needed. Besides my hands and string choices, the pickup and resulting tone is the next item in the equation. I use a variety of amps as the genre and size of the venue dictates, so usually the guitar choice is dictated by the same requirements. What I mentioned regarding that Les Paul being too bright, it wasn't giving me the sound I was after for that purchase. I also explained that I'd done the same things to every guitar I owned instead of learning how to use that tone control. It amazed me that it actually made that much difference in shaping the tone. I've been on the "tone quest" since then so I'm about 18 years past THAT revelation. I'm not so closed minded these days, I read and experiment as much as possible, an auto accident ended my live gigging. Your explanation was thorough and I certainly appreciate the input. At this point of my by guess or by gosh engineering I'm experimenting with bass cut and passive mid-range cuts, I'm intrigued with the cocked wah sounds possible and how 3 tone cut controls interact. I'm enjoying my journey and really enjoy Dylan's posts. Thanks again.
I share this pro tip with very few people. Mainly because they really do not know what they do not know and just play what is stock. So here it goes: use 500k pots on all your guitars. Wire the volume and tone knob like a 50’s Les Paul junior. (Vintage wiring vs Modern) use the value .010- .015 for the tone cap. If you want to roll back the volume or tone when using single coils to get more of those stratty tones then you will be inclined to use your ears more and also more feel of the strings and magnets resisting your pick attack. Tone really is in your hands, some guitars do this better out of the box, most have to be modified to this recipe to really have it all, especially in HSS. Now, you have the 500k which the humbucker loves, you are twice the value for single coils, you can roll off the volume and tone and solve that, plus.... using the value of tone cap I prescribed, you will actually use your tone knob more than ever before as the value (.010-.015mfd) shifts the mid and treble points like a partially cocked Wah wah pedal, instead of that .05 horrible muted muffled muddy sound Fender chose to use when guitar players would mimic bass guitar on a 6 string while recording in the 50’s, and no modern players really use the tone knob because of that fact. Playing your amp is now your new concern. You can dial up higher than you would normally use for volume and tones, and use the volume and tone knob on the guitar for boosting volume and tone without a pedal... ala Hendrix ... you will love this setup more than anything and will play more and use the volume and tone knobs and never want anything else forever thereafter...... do a video with this idea.... boost the amps volume and tone controls and dial it back from the guitar and when you want a volume or frequency change, use those knobs on the guitar instead of walking to the amp, or stepping on pedals.....you will be free to play and have it all at your fingertips.....you will thank me later tonechasers!!!
@@bradleyshuppert3393 Chris Buck did a video called "The CHEAPEST Les Paul Tone HACK? | Friday Fretworks" His LP has about 330K pots from Gibson. He had the guitar upgraded to 500K post with new caps. There was a bit of difference but not as much as you would think.
A lot of people seem to think they're missing some magic component in their signal chain that's holding them back. There isn't. You just aren't practicing enough. Stop obsessing over caps and start obsessing over being the best player you can be. I need this advice too.
-mic dropped-
You won't sound good if you don't play well this is true, but if you've ever modded a guitar and achieved hitting that sweet spot of tone you'd understand that tone isn't entirely in your fingers. There's a point to chasing it, but there's also tons of variables. The biggest being how you sound in your room isn't how you sound being recorded with a mic, or to someone 100 yards away listening to you in a mix. That said I feel how I sound to myself is important to feeling inspired to play. To each their own though. Everyone should have a different perspective and experience. Also I agree with this guy's perspective in the video for the most part. I've heard it argued though that there's a tolerance for variance in value in caps and cheaper ones apparently tend to have wider value variance meaning they can vary a little more higher and lower from the actual value in performance than some of their more expensive competition. I don't know enough to say if that's true though, and that didn't seem to be addressed in this video. I'm curious to know if there's much truth to that claim.
True, but nerding out on capacitors can be superficial therapeutic fun. Even if doesn’t matter which cap you use. It’s like audio jewelry.
That's true to an extent, but people often don't know how to dial in an amp either. Usually dial in too much gain and bass, then can't figure out why their tone sucks
The thing missing is the 2000-3000$ amps the big difference
Global Statement: As an older EE and now custom guitar creator, I find your videos to be the most accurate, articulate, logical, myth-busting, BS-mitigating and consistently helpful content on the subjects of guitar electronics and tone.
UPSHOT: Your efforts are greatly appreciated.
His content hooks up with my failed engineers (stupid calculus) understanding of physics. But hey all that math eventually helped understand data for stock speculation 🤣
I completely concur! I hate myths, conspiracy theories, fake news, false informatoon, superstitions, the supernatural, paranormal, metaphysical, mythological, lies, and bs. And there is nothing better than busting myths and lies by debunking them with truth and real knowledge!!
@@drivinsouth651 Than I can gladly tell you that mechanical exitement has a completely objectively measurable effect on the capacitance, and that effect is different for different types of capacitors. If you HEAR that is another thing. But there IS a measurable difference. I find it funny how he lists "heat, voltage, current - all things that we do not have in guitars -" but the obvious thing - physical vibration - is left out of all things. Again: if you actually hear that is another story.
I've no idea or opinion on the subject, so I'm here to learn.
Back to the video...
Great video! I love your vids! I will say though just an interesting fact I learned during my 9 years as an electrician is that the one thing electricity will never run through is completely pure 100% distilled water (basically the chemical of pure H20)! When electricity runs through normal water it runs through the irons and zincs and minerals in the water! Just thought that was an interesting fact I learned in tradeschool!
GREAT explanation. I also play Hammond B3 organ. There are 88 pickups [tonewheels] , each with their own cap. When we used to do a 'cap job', some people didn't like the resulting sound. They had become accustomed to the 'drifted' sound; which, on a B3, is rather muddy. After their ears became tuned in, they found the B3 much more tone responsive; to drawbar changes.
I definitely would NOT argue with you about anything! I am 66 yrs. old and I am amazed at your knowledge and out&out common sense. I just want to thank you for sharing your knowledge and even your random thoughts. I have gained a lot from your videos and I love how passionate you are about guitars. Please keep up the GREAT work. Mark B., Virginia Beach
I love the Jimi illustration of heat effect on the capacitor - brilliant! 🤣
Paper and oil makes me think of fish and chips. That's all I know.
Ewww.
try the salt & vinegar, they react really nicely with the heat range of fish & chips ,,
Hahahaha...... now I'll never see paper and oil caps the same way.
@@adrianpierce3047 Mmm vinegarrrrr aaarrgghhh!
@Steve R A cap, is always, just a cap!
Dylan, great discussion and topic! Just bought a Kay K161V reissue and started making a list of everything that I “needed” to change... (having the pickups rebuilt using US materials, replacing the pots/caps..etc).
After watching this video the only things I’m changing now are the 3-way switch (to a CRL) as the stock switch is failing already, Tuner machines, output jack (to Switchcraft), and bridge saddle to Tru Arc.
Thank you for approaching everything you talk about in a subjective manner. Keep up the great work!
Interesting video, my man. Mainly the part of tone due to capacitor aging. Kudos !
I love that you said that it sounds better in some people's _eyes_ whether it was intentional or not. Some people really DO listen with their eyes first and foremost.
My 63 Strat had a nice ceramic disc cap that sounded great when you rolled off the highs !
I don't feel any particular way about caps. I'm just learning. Right now I am on the down hill slope of a 2 humbucker rewire job. I learned about polarity. Testing humbuckers for resistance. Pot values versus humbucker tonality. Now I'm "nerding" out about the bridge pickup. I had to drop in a 250K tone pot. I have a one Meg volume pot. The caps are .022's. There are two DPDT switches (on, on, on) for dual sound parallel, series and coil splitting. Blah, blah, blah.
Now the question really is what will my bridge humbucker sound like. Will I swap out the cap or the pot? Or will I like the darkness of it as I go from one coil to two depending...? Should I wire the switch for the North coil or South on this bridge pickup? All very interesting and fun to me. So thanks for all your cool vids Dylan.
Saw some paper & oil caps for $80 each today at a thrift store lol. I hate orange drops cause of how they look but when they're in the guitar I don't have to look at them. I use the same cheap ceramic caps as I do in the pedals I build on guitars I wire. works out great & at 10 cents a pop from tayda.... better to put my money into other things such as vintage wine.
Now that you’ve schooled me on what caps don’t do, I want to know what they do? Do I even need them? Thanks
Now I feel like I got took on my honey bee cap's in my 2021 50's Goldtop! I looked everywhere for this kind of info and now I find it when I am almost done! I am finishing another build with five Russian cap's on a Varitone in a lp with three pickups.
I have a question (ignore the handle, shared computer) but for those of us who subscribe to the DIY thic and dismantle old tv's and stuff to harvest parts do you have any good advice or thoughts on what items we should look for and why? It seems capacitors would be one of hte easier bits to pull from old electronics
nah man caps dont worth it.. focus on big expensive stuff like transformers, tubes, power transistors, heatsinks, anything mechanical like potentiometers and switches, big inductors, cables, that sort of jazz, also anything you find useful obviously why not..
I hate that Ive just found your videos. I love how comprehensive and helpful these videos are especially the explanations being in guitar application as well. I’ve spoken to engineers(asking specifically about this) that haven’t been able to put it as clearly or as quickly as you have. Thank you
I don't know, but I've heard the reason that the vintage bumblebee caps might sound "better" is that they are not very good performing caps compared to modern caps; they are "leaky". And it's this phenomenon that can make them sound different.
Hi, would there be any noticeable difference between a 50V 0.22uf & a 100V 0.20uf cap ? Thanks so much! ps both ceramic
I'm wondering the same thing. Or a 400v, or 600v.
If you measure two capacitors of different kind with the same value,
you get different readings depending on the frequency your capacitance meter are using (often 100Hz to 1Khz).
But since guitars just handle audible frequencies below 20khz I don't think it matters at all.
There is a difference on choosing types when you are talking about Mhz/Ghz range.
I think you should select one that is easy to solder with a long lifespan. Or just use the one with the coolest colour.
Personally, I first choose the value I like, then I install the ones that have the look I like the most in that guitar 😀
Paper in Oil...tropical fish, orange drop...they all have a place in my guitars. There is no real difference in sound, but I hate to see those small ceramic disk caps and always swap them out. Still makes me feel I did something to make my guitar more personal
@@frankscassi4960 The ceramic don't blead.
@@frankscassi4960 For me, nerding out on capacitors is fun. I enjoy being a capacitor nerd even if it makes not much of difference
thx very helpful,I have a 92 clapton strat with the midboost,I changed my pickups to the srv and a hot rail.with the boost off the srv pickups sound a little muddy I was thinking of taking out the circuit and starting from scratch?is this the pickups or the circuit making it muddy.much appreciated
Sounds like the circuit! You now have a hum bucker wired to a single coil pick up volume pot! IF you go to HB from SC, you NEED to replace the volume pot from 250K, to @ least 500K, or it WILL sound muddy, and it WON'T be as loud as you expect, or drive your amp as hard! I had this problem years ago on an old guitar. Had a good Duncan put in it, but the twats that did it, NEVER upgraded the volume pot to a 500K, and I always wondered WHY the guitar sounded muddy!
I just rewired my Strat using two orange capacitors: .047 to the neck PU tone pot shared with the middle pickup and .022 to the middle PU tone pot now occupied by the bridge pickup; my #1 Tele was also rewired w/a .047 orange capacitor while Tele #2 is 'Esquired' w/a .022 orange cap on 3 while retaining the .022 green cap it came with.
And? How did you like the results?
@@MC-wh3xmThey're all better than before!
That was my favorite intro to a gear video...by a long shot. (I have no strong feelings about capacitors but will keep watching)
I watched this right before wiring up a Fernandez L-50 strat I own. It has Seymour Duncan Texas specials. This is what I changed . One of the screws was on the verge of stripping out, so I installed brass EZ Locs with 1/4-20 thread inside. I drilled out the screw holes to accept the bolts. I replaced the bridge that was a LR Baggs acoustic with a wide spacing. It was too wide for the width of the neck, and the E sting would slide off the top of the neck down past the 5th fret. I bought a Mex bridge plate with block and used some Tusq saddles I had laying around. I had used them before and liked them. Now I was ready to wire up a all new hand made push back wire harness from scratch, done it before many times. I decided to use J Vaughan-Wacker(don't know who this is) diagram with a .022 cap on first tone, and a .047 on the second tonepot. New jack new strings plugged it in and it was so trebley in all positions I couldn't believe it. I used both orange drop caps, and double checked all wiring connection with a pair of magnifiers before assembling it. In the past I have tried orange drops, and never left them in. This guitar has a small routing and space is tight, so I decided to try them, besides this was different than I had tried in the past. OK, they are coming back out first opportunity I get. Before it sounded very much like my US strat, and I very much liked the sound of it. It sounds totally differnt now. If you want to torture someone with ear splitting treble, then this is for you. The caps I took out were a little tiny treble bleed cap, and a small cap half the size of an M&M, but it sounded really good. Well I guess that's my three cents worth.
...so I have a number of old Paper and Oil capacitors from my Dad's shed, he's a electrical engineer and a bit of a border. I like the imperfect vintage sound having played a few old guitars. The am tempted to try some out in my Early 1990's Les Paul... any tips?
Measure their capacitance... If you like it, order a capacitor of that value, test to see if it sounds the same, and report back.
I have put PIO capacitors in two of my guitars and I can tell you they changed the tone drastically. Anything that affercts the current form the pickup to the amp WILL have an effect.
Same!
I have PIO in one of my guitars too. I don’t know if it improves but it looks great
On a little different note, under the same logic, tubes built to the same spec should sound the exact same as the older manufactured ones. Right? Same with transistors?
Are some caps recommended for humbuckers and some caps for single coils?
Very valuable informations!
Thanks Dylan! 😃👍🏼
I‘ve put 0.015mF orange drops in 2 humb. guitars with diff. scale length and on a Telly style with noiseless SC‘s. I like to have usable tones from 10-0.
I intend to do the same in other two strat/superstrat type, wich are already warm sounding.
My LP style „black beauty" got 0.022mF, for the growl.
I „know“ the difference between the types of caps is negligible to non existent, but I generally don't "trust" things if they are too small… so I chose orange drops…and they look nice too.
But for treble bleeds I use the small ceramic caps and resistors.
Great vid, thanks for breaking it down. One thing, I can't seem to find, is they vaule (?) of the capacitor. If I was to go to the electronics store and by a cap (any type) what is the value? I am runnig a stock P-90 through 500K vol and tone pots to a input jack. Thanks in advance.
I use Orange drops for two simple reasons... they have a tight tolerance, and the last forever.
I have one Orange drop in one of my guitars. Love it! Awesome capacitors
Dylan made an excellent point about old caps starting to go bad and beginning to act like resistors. Check the ESR of those old caps. So yeah, when a crappy paper cap stops being a cap, no doubt it sounds different than modern caps.
We can't make them old, but I wonder if there was a way to make them sound old by freezing them, baking them in an oven, or some other method?
@@drivinsouth651 For those who can't read a blue print, you'll have to put your capacitors in the oven. Those who can read a blue print know will know that the design of the circuit determines the "tone." The reason that brown fenders sound different than black face which sound different than silver face fenders is the circuits are different.
@@murfbass But which one should I put in my Strat? I put the parts from an Ibanez RG loaded pickguard in my Ibanez GIO and it sounds better than any of my other guitars. The Ibanez loaded pickguard cost $97.00 on eBay. The $500.00 worth of pickups, Emerson blender, 10 way switch, and Qijack I put in my Strat should theoretically sound better. I was thinking of putting Ibanez parts in my Strat. What should I do, lol? Thanks!
Just need to put your guitar in the pizza oven for about three hours. Now your capacitors would be awesome and you guitar will look vintage.
After about 30 years, the onboard effects stuff on my Cort flying V started to fail. I'd never really used the stuff, didn't care for how it performed or sounded, so I just ripped everything out and rewired it like a Gibson V, with 3 pots and a 3-way switch. I used 500k pots and a .022 uf orange drop. This gave me a top end so trebly it almost sounds like a single coil, and I can still roll the tone knob back to get those more classic Gibson tones. So more attenuation out of the pot, for greater range out of the pickup. Win/win.
45 years ago, when I was a young boy, I had; a cheap Teisco, a three month 7th grade electronics course, and a Radio Shack a block from home.
I spent many months, experimenting with as many different value capacitors, and fixed resistors, as I could find. I made my own Veritone, replete with resistors, before I knew it was actually a thing. I only did it, so I could compare cap values easier.
Then, I tried phase shifting, coil tapping, (later splitting, when I added some cheap Framus humbuckers). I used push/pull pots, DPST, DPDT switches. Anything I could find, at Radio Shack.
When I brought what I had done to my electronics teacher. He laughed at me, and told me I was wasting my time.
My poor Teisco looked like Frankenstein’s monster, all the extra pickups, switches & knobs. It looked just awful, but it could make so many different sounds, through my 15watt converted stereo/turntable, into amplifier. It was crazy.
Edit: typo
I have about 25 Russian PIO caps covering I think three of the common guitar values, sitting in a box for the last 4 years, still haven't bothered to fit one into a harness, but they look so cool and full of vintage mojo. As we say in Australia," it's all about the vibe". One of the big time pick up makers, I'm sure it was Seymour D, confessed he could not tell the difference in a blind test and he's been listening to his pups for near 50 years.
My Gibsom Custom Shop 1959 LP M2M has giant Bumble Bee caps and my Gibson Custom Les Paul Custom has ceramic button caps. I wondering if I should replace the ceramic button caps with the legit Bumble Bees.
I’m subscribing. After 4 of your videos, I genuinely enjoy the needing out over science of music. You’re a fascinating guy, can’t wait to see more from you
Yeah that's a tough talk... not many people are ready to hear it... and It's true, if you want to sound like a vintage guitar, check its cap value, and duplicate it... dont go read the original value of it and try to put a paper in oil cap in your guitar with the original value, it won't sound the same...
Duplicating original values is a mistake many people make when trying to recreate a 60 year old amp with fresh components. The "mojo" in those old amps is there because the values of those 60 year old parts have drifted over the decades. I heard clones that sound incredible but, good or bad, they don't sound exactly like an original.
I don't understand what you are talking about. isn't the reason you love that old vintage amp or vintage guitar due to the recordings you've heard and fallen in love with that use that gear? like the classic rock sound of those vintage Les Paul and Marshall amps got on the classic Led Zeppelin Albums? or that unmistakable tone Jimi Hendrix got on his recordings?
All of that gear was brand new when those recordings were being made and the caps when all in spec.
if you really want to sound like that vintage gear then re-cap your amps, put fresh tubes in and set the bias correctly and re-cap your guitar with the correct values. there! true vintage sound! anything else is just a lie that has made people spend way too much money on old gear that in reality was out of spec and not working properly!!!!
sagging caps will over time damage your gear, it's not sound it is creating it is bad electronics, see your getting DC leakage and that is just bad!
@@mergatroid1212 THANK YOU GOOD SIR! SENSE AT LAST!
Yes, it's the value, not the material it's made from.
I love this channel, you're talking about stuff that I've been saying for years to my naive friends who are constantly dropping big money to chase their perfect tone based entirely on BS hype from people who don't know what they're talking about!
It's funny how when we talk, we almost always try putting it, "into words." haha. As a 60-year-old beginning guitar player, I'm learning a lot here. Thanks my brother.
So does it make any difference at all what ones you put in the guitar? Is there any certain best or good ones to use? Do any of them change the tones at all? I am not here to fuss or argue about anything, I just want to learn a lot about this tech stuff.
Simple explanation. I like it! Your persistence paid off, thank you for this info!
I rewired my Les Paul to '50's.... changing the cap to pot tabs... I did it for fun and it's great but I don't understand exactly whet it does?
Thank you for clearly and plainly explaining something that gets knocked out of reality. Good job.
I’m wiring up a new Strat build right now. I have orange drop and PIO caps on hand. Gonna put one set in and play for awhile, then when I change the strings I’ll swap them out for the others and see what they sound like.
Older video, but thanks for putting it out there. I have a 2005 Schecter C-1 Classic that comes standard with Duncan Jazz/JB pickup combo that I expected to just sing. For whatever reason they decided to use a .047uf cap on the tone control which made the pickups very muddy IMO. I played the guitar for 16 years like that, a bit disappointed with the pickups. Decided to completely change the electronics in the control cavity. Pulled out the Chinese 5 way switch and install a 3 way switch craft blade switch, swapped the pots for CTS push-pull 500k audio taper pots, did a partial coil split to mitigate the volume loss using 1K and 2K resistors to ground from the split, and put in an orange drop .022uf cap. Sure it was a lot of changes, but in reality the stock switch and pots were getting scratchy and it needed a refresh. After the mods the guitar now sounds amazing. Much more articulate, much better tonal variations from the tone control, all the richness and harmonic undertones I expected from the pickups is now there. Curious what really made the difference, I started playing with caps. The old pots measured out at 500k so I was pretty confident that wasn’t what made it sound so dark. The old ceramic cap was .047 as advertised. In researching many of your videos I learned that .047 is more to take the high end of single coils and .022 was a winner for hum buckers. I decided for kicks I would put that .047 back in just to see what happened and surprisingly it sounded excellent, but much darker when the tone was rolled completely down, dumping everything to the cap. Kind of expected. But with the tone at “10” it retained all the brightness and articulation I was getting from the .022uf orange drop.
Anyway, there was certainly some part of that old circuit that was robbing the signal and making the poor thing sound like crap. I could go on experimenting, but I just rest comfortably knowing it now sounds great. I suspect maybe the old No name pots had something to do with it?
Sorry for the long post. LoL. Any insight you can offer as to why it used to sound dark and muddy, and it now sounds brilliant would be appreciated. It’s seriously like I used to have a blanket over the amp cabinet, and after the electronics swap it’s now free and beautifully articulate. Strange to me. Glad for the cheap fix, but my curiosity is still there!
Haven't watched the whole video yet, but you want me express myself - I'm one of those nerds who modded my p-bass to put in a paper in oil capacitor. I have no idea of the electronics, but I just read about it on reddit, and took it to a shop to perform the mod. Now, I'll watch the end of your undoubtedly excellent video. [edit: having watched the video - oh, crap!]
Thanks Dylan for making my life easier with your knowledge, i was so obsessed about replacing my guitars capacitors to orange drop to bumble bee capacitor! Thank you!
"But I can hear the difference" is the exact same bs as "but this one goes to eleven". If a customer wants to spend an extra 25 bucks on a fancy cap, so be it. But I'm doing allright with my 5 cents caps. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
Great explaination of something hardly anyone knows anything about, including me. Thanks.
I wonder if when that bumble bee capacitor starts to age it has that sweet spot at 25-30 years old? I know our USA voltage has gone from 110 volts to 125volts at the wall. Using an attenuator is key for an older amp. Then again there are some great sounding stock epiphone lps, and I believe that is from the musician. Controlling every aspect of your sound makes you a more consistent performer, same with any tradesman with his personal tools. Dylan always goes deep dive into the science, history and tech, it shows passion. Never disappointed. Second time I watched this video through.
ok, first off, awesome video and explanation. So that said, we all agree that the value is the value, the end! while choosing materials to get a specific value, when trying to get to the vintage "failure" value, what is happening to that old oil in paper stuff as it gets old and dries out and "fails"? what value should one be looking for in a new longer lasting better material Cap? what were the intended values in the early guitar years, and what have the degraded to present day?
I trust and value your opinion, thats why I am watching YOUR video. some ppl just want to argue because their lives are vapid and they are under stimulated.
I like to think of capacitors as balloons in a circuit, they add voltage back in when the voltage drops like a balloon would in an air system. Pots are like electrical valves and resistors are like a restriction in a piece of pipe slowing down the amount of air passing through. It helps me visualize what is happening. Great video. Thank you.
Pots are resistors just variable
Somewhere in my junk box, I have a box with a rotary switch and a bunch of capacitors in it. It has alligator clips, so it can be quickly connected for blind testing. When customers ask about cap types and values during a pot swap, I hook it up, and let them decide for themselves. Everyone can consistently hear large differences in capacitance, some notice smaller changes, but no-one has ever correctly identified PIO vs Mylar vs polyester- or even ceramic.
I just want to know if PIO are better sounding than Orange Caps at .022uF.
I just converted my 09 Traditional LP from modern wiring to 50s. I used all the factory pots and caps so the only variable is the wiring route. I noticed a distinct increase in the brightness of the guitar and the "sweep" of the tone pots. Rolling the tone down from 10 it gets dark at a much slower rate (5 now sounds like 7 or 8 before). This has me wondering if the tone caps are more or less important depending on which wiring setup you have?!
Wiring IS more important!
Yes I like to use 50s wiring on my Teles to omit the Treble bleed... I do not like the curve on that. The 50s wiring to me works better with low val caps .. I went from a .047 to a .015 and have a nice usable tone sweep that does not get too dark. use CTS 250k -300 kpots
Another good video Dylan. Ill make this short, I only use Orange Drop capacitors 0.010 or 0.015. Roll them back to 0 and there is no mud.
I don't have a view - I just want to understand what the deal is because my pick up maker asked me whether I want orange drop or paper in oil and i have no idea
Now having watched the video - i get it - it makes no difference and i will probably go with the orange drop
Thanks Dylan
Excellent, as usual. People miss the fact that the capacitor types they used in vintage guitars were used because they were what was commonly available, not because they had some known musical advantage. Amp capacitors were way overkill for guitars. There are alternatives today. Now, pardon me, I have to go get some of those $75 vintage capacitors to make my tone better!
Additionally, quality of products back then was much better than the workmanship of modern products, this can especially be seen in modern vehicles, where technology is mated with cheap poor construction quality. I believe that is the reason vintage guitars can sound so good. Japanese guitars gained respect because of the pride they took in trying to make the best guitar they could make.
Wow! Finally, someone who tells it the way it is. I'm so happy to have found your RUclips channel.
I'm a total newbie, and I was seeing this "thing" about "paper in oil" capacitor and could simply not find any explanation. Now, as we say in "Canadian French", I will go to bed less stupid. 😉
What you just said made more sense to me than any of the discussions I've read over the past 20 years. I don't know anything about capacitors. I never heard a difference during different tests. The only difference I've heard is on a Lolar video where they change between a 0.015,0.022, and 0.047. All that did was change the travel and depth of the tone knob. So, a person might choose a different value. But, it's good to know that the different types have more to do with the use environment which, on a guitar is a sealed cavity with some vibration and a benign temperature environment. Thanks so much for another great video!
Dylan, what capacitor do you you?
Thanks Dylan, old thread but very useful and totally makes sense. People!... It's an electronic circuit! Vintage choices as you said, they used what components where available in that period of time. Actually newer technologies will probably last longer since they don't use oil which will dry out over time but do exactly the same thing. Thanks fo explaining and exposing the myths but there will always be those who disagree, hell with them! Lol. I learned a ton of info from watching your channel! Keep up the great work.
I love, absolutely LOVE no b.s. approaches to things. I am the same way with brass instruments as a repairman.
Just think of how many guitar players, whom you've crushed, who can't play, but have a basement full of incredible guitars that they are tweaking and modding with special caps and redistors.
"The tone is in your fingers." Jaco Pastorius. Any questions?
That you for clearing up the myth using logic. I’m getting ready to rewire an Asian LP copy and you just saved me $40 bucks or so.
Thank you for this complete explanation of this matter. You have an amazing way of communicating your point, you earned a subscriber.
I need advise: Switch craft or Pure Tone Jack's. Which is best?
Both are good and I use both. In theory Pure Tone will last longer
Think I subscribed after I watched the third or fourth video of yours I found. You provide a wealth of information in layman's terms. Thank you for that, even though I'm sure you, Dylan won't read this. Just begining to mod some of my guitars and your explanations will save me a lot of trial and error.
Make your statement known,
That's why we're watching!
Thank you!
I've been been building/ repairing my own amps for 8 years. And I agree with you about capacitors. Thank you for the video.
Good talk! Thanks! I put very high output humbuckers in my Epi SG. Did not change pots or caps. Bought some Russian green pio caps. Installed. Sound was noticeably “compressed”, “warmer”, whatever ...was noticeably different. The HBs were rated at 16-18kohm, I believe (GFS “Bigmouth”) Maybe some other factor than the cap material???
OK, I'm commenting before watching, as requested. I have many guitars, and have tried lots of subtle mods. I hear what people say about the capacitor's material not being a contributing factor. Now, I don't claim to be able to hear the difference between alkaline vs. copper top batteries in my pedals, like Eric Johnson. Someone told me that Eric also recently said that he can hear the difference in different jacks. Met Eric twice. Nice guy. Very humble. If he can hear a swapped out jack, good for him. I don't have dog ears. But I do have decent ears, as I do a lot of mixing and mastering, etc. And I've been playing for 45 years. But I know for a fact, that I've tried various brands of capacitors, and heard different outcomes. The paper-in-oil wasn't snake oil. Sprague Vitamin Qs sounded very noticeably different to my hears than the stock orange drops. There was a certain silvery sheen type of aural exciter processor kind of difference to certain frequencies in the highs. Kind of what a delay or ambient stereo reverb does to high notes. They were softer, more sparkly, a little more even, or had more musical alignment. And the guitar is one I just used live two weeks ago again, and the same holds true, it does in fact sound better with the upgraded caps. Not sure what the magical unicorn ingredient is. Possibly the material that the signal passes through contributes in some way. Ok, now watching your video to hear you tell me I'm wrong and it doesn't matter at all. :D
Thank you for this!! This helped me a lot! I understood most of this already but there was always the "mystery" behind it. Doing HVAC I've studied some electrical stuff and I was going to try to read about all this but getting the knowledge this way and from the Guitar standpoint made it so much better and easier to understand and I didn't have to learn a bunch of stuff that I won't use right now to get these answers. Thank you!! I do use 1959 Paper In Oil Bumblebee caps that have drifted into spec. So I have the look haha but not the "magic" of a cap that drifted out of spec.
I like the green chicklet looking caps.Cheap and never fail in a guitar!
I have no religious feelings vis-a-vis PiO caps, or any other kind when it comes to that... but as I had a chance to try a russian NOS PiO I noticed a very interesting fenomena: with the orange drop on my precision bass sometimes the rolled off sound seemed out of tune... but when you check with a tuner - all is spot on! Then I put the PiO and never again had that problem again! Is it possible that they affect somehow differently the harmonics in the process of cutting off the higher frequences...?
I use NOS Aluminum Can PIO Vitamin Qs. Why? 1. Because a bought a ton of them cheap a few years ago. 2. I test them individually. 3. They look cool!
Hey I seen you on Texas Toast, I was actually looking for a video to explain this and I think you've answered my question exactly. So I guess I'll keep buiying orange drops.
😂😂😂
Great video and very informative. I'm currently working on a bass and ordered some CTS pots for it (in preparation for swapping out the pickups and controls) and they came with an "orange drop" capacitor. I've been watching videos on how to do the work myself (the soldering and whatnot)and they're using paper and oil so I've been wondering if I should get a paper and oil capacitor "because it will sound better." Glad I found your video to clear up this whole capacitor argument. Thanks a lot!!!
This is a well explained and understandable video on this subject.
I learn something new every time I watch your videos. Im seriously considering a new path in EE. Thank you and keep pressing on.
I sat down with a bundle of different capacitors for a day running a signal through them one at a time(ripped out if a 70s TV set.Grundig I think) and when I used a yellow tube shaped •5cm x 1cm plastic one I stopped and permanently soldered it into a stock Stratocaster because it sounded nicer than all the rest. I don't know the values cos it was almost blank but it was yellow.
I have no idea about Caps. But from experimenting i have boticed a hear a difference between different typrs. quite amazing really. Thanks Dylan awesome video :)
Have To change my paper and oil capacitors in my 73 amp because I hear they are bleeding/leaking ? How can I make my Stratocaster sound more like my Gibson Les Paul? Deeper less than?
You are 100% correct in everything you said. I use the cheapest caps I can get my paws on and they sound just as good as more expensive ones.
do you have any caps with blinker fluid??
Maybe do a tone comparison..? This all makes sense to me.. But is there a slight tonal difference? Or what tolerances might the old ones that are out of spec be? Ones that might sound good to some folks... I am not here to cause drama but I wonder how close in comparison the tone is.. Looking on a scope or something... Microscope...lol.. Thanks for another great video!
I totally agree with you, I use Orange Sprague all the time and never sound bad
Thank you for saving me the headache of this rabbit hole
I don’t use my tone knob and I wanted to switch it out with a tesi kill switch that’s goes into the tone pot hole and it had no instructions. When I connected it the bridge pickup sounded like it lost tone and the kill switch only worked on the bridge pickup. Can anyone help me out with this because I want to learn how to do this on my own.
just here because purchasing a wiring harness with these options, glad i found this
You asked to write a comment before watching the entire video, so what I think about tone capacitors: their value affects the frequency response as a part of a filter with pickup inductance, resistance and internal capacity. The dielectric material means less, but because of the differencies in dielectric loss tangent it affects the phase shifts and you can slightly hear that in attacks. So nothing wrong with experimenting here
Great info... busting the myths. Very helpful. Seems like it’s all about color choice for keeping the wiring looking cool. And that matters?? Lol.
Could maybe cover installation of cap direction, especially with PIO caps, I have found some caps sound off and have had to flip them….. I as well have tested several different cap types with the same values.. I have heard differences when making comparisons to each other and at times to themselves. Usually when completing a build for a customer I will check different cap types, values, and direction to find the one that works best for the guitar…just some thoughts to consider…
Very awesome video. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the manner in which capacitors function in a guitar is also why it doesn't matter which way the outside foil is connected, although in electronics theory (if you're absolutely OCD), it would be facing toward the tone pot, yes?
Good capacitor explanation! I upgrade vintage audio components. Wanted your take on "Audio Grade" capacitors vs the "standard" grade with same value/type. Would you recommend if price was not that much different.
Ive been useing 393k regular capacitors solderd on the tone pot to ground no bigger than a finger nail both same size i used aligator clips on the grond of the tone and the bottom positive lug and swapped a green one with a red same size same value the red one had a duller sound but tighter fequency the green was brighter with looser fequency why
Dylan, just got a really good deal on a 2019 HC Gibby LP Classic. I love the tone...don’t think I’ll do anything to it...is there anything compelling, aside from pickups, that you’d suggest I consider doing? PCBs don’t scare me at all.