The difference between Martin Li and Phin is that they may both have sympathetic backstories, but Martin is called out on it whenever he’s on screen and shows how ruthless he is. Phin is just acting like a petulant child throwing a tantrum cause her brother’s dead for putting himself in a dangerous situation
I mean she is a teenager of course she’s going to act out crazy on it she is literally a TEENAGER her mind isn’t developed yet meanwhile Martin Li is a grown man so of course he’s more smarter with his moves
She doesn’t see the full picture because she’s so young she just misses her brother that was the only man in her life…and due to Roxxon he is dead…now she has nobody but miles and you gotta remember Phin is a teenager she’s so young she’s not gonna think fully straight if her mind isn’t developed fully yet
@@LilRichXXXBoomin Yeah she's never called out on her bullshit and the game treats her like a hero. She thinks she did nothing wrong and everyone else seems to think the same in game which is so dumb.
TLDR It's kinda hard to sympathize with this character you're supposed to sympathize with when she does really stupid and hypocritical things, from getting mad at Miles for hiding his identity when she was doing the same thing when she had her gang attack his mom's rally to refusing to listen to Miles about Roxxon guy sabotaging her plan to blaming Miles for them getting kidnapped as if he knew or should've known his uncle was working for Roxxon. And then you're supposed to feel bad for her because she sacrificed herself to save the city that wouldn't have been in danger if she wasn't being repeatedly stupid. And unlike Doc Ock, she is FULLY in control of herself. So she has ZERO excuses for her actions. Heck, Otto would've had a better excuse even without the neural interface damaging his brain, since we at least get a better understanding of why he's dead set on completing his arms and wants Norman taken down at any cost.
@espurrseyes42 yeah this. All of this lol. I could somewhat ignore her not knowing miles didnt know about his uncle but even then thats because she didnt listen to him! I cut some stuff out because i got tired of drawing but theres so much more shit. Underground attacks feast trucks in some missions. The hell does attacking a homeless shelter do for their goal of taking down roxxon lol. They wanted the personal connection to the villains that the first gsme had but didnt understand why it worked the first time around
Oh shes also a jerk. You can hear the underground getting sicker because of nuform. Her tech keeps her safe but it doesnt keep them safe they are slowly dieing she knows about it and she was willing to let miles join.
Yeah which is why i feel like you csn either have her be unapologetically focused on her missions where shes discarded all regard for consequences like martin lee or it just doesnt work well
and this is a case of genre savviness so I can't fault her too much for it, but she at one point literally says "no one would have gotten hurt if that new Spiderman hadn't gotten in our way" without her at all questioning WHY she was someone Spiderman would WANT to get in the way of?
Miles sets up a meeting with her and the first thing she says is "I could of killed you." And I do say the only time the game calls her out is in the boss fight.
I knew the writing of this series was getting worst when neither of them acknowledge that "her" "gang" attacked and tried to kill his own MOTHER, it's just never brought even in passing, it seemed like a pretty thing considering how miles feels about his Father being killed
Yeah exactly right? Its such a huge part of miles character in the insomniac verse that it should've been brought up or mentioned and phin should have been called out. Especially since we even have a scene where rio reassured miles that this wont be like city hall.
She armed what amounts to a terrorist cell with the most powerful tech anyone has seen and is more than likely fully aware they’re tearing apart the city. How is she OK with working with these people while maintaining she’s a good person?
oh yeah "phin my mom got hurt because your terrorist strike was at my moms rally" phin: nuh-uh it was because you interfered, not because i gave super weapons to mentally unstable criminals and attacked said rally.
@@Demonically_Inspired yeah. I just hate her attitude and the fact that she's willing to hurt and even kill innocent people over an irrationa hatred and fear.
I think I would’ve preferred Phin get arrested than sacrifice herself. Like with Sam Raimi’s Dock Oc, despite willingly putting people in harm’s way, he was semi-influenced by his malfunctioning arms on top of losing everything. Plus, we get to see who Octavius was before his descent into madness. His motivations don’t change, just his methods. So when Peter convinces Otto that he needs to let go, Otto remembers why he did everything in the first place. With Phin, the “redemption” at the end feels unearned because she refused to listen until the last second. And there wasn’t a consistent motivation like with Dock Oc, both film and game. Speaking of, the first game recognizes that Otto was in a difficult situation (with his body deteriorating among other things), but it doesn’t cut him any slack because he’s responsible for like a lot of people dying including May Parker. To sum it up, Phin doesn’t suffer any consequences for her actions like other villains do.
@@jexelbur6872 other than death, but she had it coming🤣🤣 I did not feel sorry for her tbh. Miles lost his dad and almost his mom to *HER* and he’s not evil
@@akcaptainamer2703 yeah but he was more reasonable tbh. He wanted that man dead after tadashi and what he did to the group. But after being talked down and realized what’s at stake, he got the situation under control. Can’t say the same for phin
So,etching that really bothered was a throwaway line by an underground npc near the start of one of bases. It’s a line where they state that they’re feeling sick around the nuform but they brush it off because Phin told them it’s safe or something around those lines. Suggesting that Phin is putting these unknowing people in the same kind of danger as her brother and yet the game never touches on this aspect except in a throwaway line.
Yeah exactly! And if i recall its not even just a random throwaway line. If i recall, im pretty sure its a line during the main story that happens when you're infiltrating the underground base or something. The story brings attention to it. Then ignores it lol
Didn't Miles have a friend who was the Vultures granddaughter? She should have been the main antagonist. Maybe she starts off an antagonist, but over the course of the game, they team up against a more street level villain like Silvermane or a Prowler copycat
To be fair about Phin’s plan to blow up Roxxon Plaza, it’s not that she thought destroying one building and one reactor would be enough to financially cripple the company. The most important part of the plan was ruining Nuform’s reputation as a viable energy source. Think like what Fukushima did to the nuclear power industry back in 2012. Before the incident. The US had at least 5 new reactors planned at the time, 1 was even already in construction, but as soon as Fukushima happened everything was halted. Those 4 new projects were straight up canceled and the 1 plant that was already half-built had its development delayed for years. The US is only now just getting back to building new nuclear reactors. And it was stated in the game that Roxxon had basically dumped all their money into Nuform development and marketing, so if it flopped so would the rest of the company. On top of that, the reactor in Roxxon Plaza was the only functional one they had since Phin’s brother was the only one who really knew how to make the stuff. At that point destroying the building was just a symbolic act.
I agree with you but the thing is underground was publicly attacking roxxon. And a company as big as roxxon would have cameras looking at the nuform reactors and the systems that control it. Itd get pointed out to be a terrorist attack easily i feel.
@@Demonically_Inspired - True, they could say that it was caused by terrorists, but that wouldn’t make people feel any safer about Nuform. Like I said, it would be similar to a Fukushima event. The Fukushima incident wasn’t caused by a faulty design or poor operational handling of the plant. It was just hit by a massive tsunami that the builders and engineers never thought would be able to happen in that particular region. And yet, even though the plant personnel did a great job handling a terrible situation, even preventing things from getting WAY worse, it still nearly killed the industry because people didn’t feel safe all of a sudden.
@@CJ-442 that's fair. if that was the goal, then sure the plan is fine. but it doesn't feel like the game wanted to present that as the plan or they did it in a poor way. but if that was the goal of her plan then yeah that works for sure
@@tetraxis3011 - You’re giving the general population way too much credit to see and react rationally. See my previous comments about how the Fukushima incident nearly ruined the nuclear industry worldwide. It was caused by a one in a million natural disaster. How is it rational to see how it took a 50 foot tsunami overtaking a sea wall to cause the Fukushima disaster, and then decide that the plants in Nebraska or Missouri are somehow at risk now? If a tsunami somehow reaches the nuclear plants in Midwestern America, we’ve got bigger problems than some radiation. Terrorist attacks are much more deliberate and can happen anywhere. On top of that, the Roxxon Plaza reactor was the only Nuform reactor currently in service. If it took out part of Manhattan in a literal explosion, there’s no way they’re going to get approval to build new ones anywhere.
Honestly Phin is truly the Worst Part of this Game, we could have exploded that both Miles and Phin are not Different People, I wish that both the Thinker was simply Evil and that Rick was the Mastermind all along, it would’ve been a Better Direction for Miles’ Journey.
Roxxon's plotlines didn't make any sense either, why would they put a reactor in the middle of a plaza? even if NuForm was safe, why put it in an area where anyone could mess with it? and since it wasn't sage, why would Roxxon's executive put it somewhere that would expose themselves to it every day? And outside of Roxxon's shady activities, people seem to irrationally hate them for no reason, Miles's Mom makes her entire political campaign about fighting them, and people rag on them for "not keeping their promises" even though they've been around for less than 6 months, yet still built a massive skyscraper, and a clean energy reactor, meaning they're actually working incredibly fast
exactly. look its not even that. have you seen the property rates in new york lmao. why the fuck would any company worth its salt want to build a power plant in harlem, when they could easily do it in a more remote location and have the power be routed over to the city. and not to mention the pople of new york seem awfully cool with roxxon having a private militia in the city despite having first hand experience with how that turned out when sable was around
for the sake of comic book nonsense, a lot of realistic cause and effect have to be let go. such is the medium and im fine with it. but if you're gonna take liberties with some stuff, atleast make sure the other stuff sticks well lol
Because of the evulz...mwahahahahahahahaha. All Krieger needed was a top hat and a mustache to twirl. Then the game pretends that nuform( what a simple minded name for it) is the first energy source in the world that it is unsafe to rub yourself against. As if nuclear energy isn't unsafe unless it is properly shielded. But somehow, somehow, Krieger thinks that his entire R and D team getting sick and dying will never come back to haunt him. He thinks that who knows how many people getting sick and dying from similar illness shortly after he plops his nuform( again. Stupid name) reactor in Harlem won't be noticed by the powers that be. He has one of the stupidest plan in any game I have ever seen.
Honestly your take is fair. The two major issues that I had with Phin were just how hard the game was trying to make us sympathize with her but also the suspension of disbeleif that some of the decisions of both Phin but also Roxxon. I get that Roxxon is supposed to follow the evil corporation steryotype but making a reactor in a plaza in New York is stupid both from a financial standpoint but also from a safety point of view. Mind you I get that Roxxon doesn't care about their employees but I think they would care about public perception and it's a big red flag to put a reactor in a highly populated city. Then there's Phin, her hatred towards Roxxon is perfectly understandable same with her motivations, my problem is how far the game goes to bat in trying to justify it. We get why she's mad but to the point of illogically trying to destroy Nuform but thinking Miles was trying to trick her was dumb. Not to mention she had alternatives to some of her plans but choosing to attack Miles Mom rally, which mind you technically supports her cause against Roxxon indirectly really doesn't make sense. That and Phin's Phone still being conveniently placed in Roxxon's lab is questionable because why wouldn't it have been destroyed or recovered? Phin definitely had more potential as a character and was likeable when she was just hanging out with Miles but I kind of wish the game decided on if she was a love interest or like a sister to Miles since them going back and forth on it was dumb to me.
Oh man the love interest - like a sister thing is weird. And i completely forgot about the phone. Also yeah what kind of asinine board of directors decided to have a powerplant in the middle of the city lol. Theres a reason most powerplants are more remotely located.
@@Demonically_Inspired yes 🙂↕️my sleep schedule fucked on top of that I haven’t slept in days i sleep during the day sometimes I stay hope for a day or two
I feel like the writing in both MM and 2 kinda sucked, especially compared to the first game. I'm genuinely afraid that they might ruin Doc Ock, because not only is he my favorite Spidey villain, but Insomniac's version might just be my favorite of him
@@Demonically_InspiredSPOILER ALERT: Peter gets sidelined for a lot of the game only to be completely replaced by Miles at the end. Peter is blamed for his actions when being taken over by the Symbiote(which, except for not giving it back to harry, are really not that bad) but when MJ gets turned into Scream, she says ALOT of nasty stuff to Pete and MJ NEVER APOLOGIZED. H yea and Kraven is completely wasted as a villain in the story. And they completely bastardized Yuris character. Plus a lot of weird side and main content. MJ is somehow capable of taking down experienced hunters working for kraven, a side mission for miles is…….helping a gay dude ask out someone for homecoming….(what a wast of Spider-Man time). And on one of the other missions, you play as Miles deaf Gf(who expresses her thoughts through….emojis? God the devs have never met a deaf person IRL) and the mission has her…….commit a crime. (She vandalizes a wall with graffiti about racism). Plus some really strange decisions for the game like: Pretty much removing the entirety of NYCs Police force. Having Peter go on an anti-gun rant. Have this podcast run by some woman who is supposed to be the opposite of JJJ, but her takes are literally the same as MSM, which ruins the point of a podcast. The complete removal of random crimes in the city. Basically have Miles be the main Spidey, having him save Peter a lot of times. Stuff like that.
I truly believe she can be a great character if a couple of things are changed/in place: 1. She isn't as obvious as the freaking sun in being the Tinkerer. Rework the story into a mystery story in seeing Miles trying to figure out this unknown but powerful figure that is behind this group of powered up bad guys. Phin in this case is Miles best friend of course but she is more involved in the story in a way that completely keeps you from guessing that she is the one behind it all. 2. Have Phin be truly fuel by past trauma for the thrid reason 3. Also have someone who is using Phin as the puppet. Would help in making her character redeemable since she was mislead. Throw in a smart Spiderman villain in there as the mastermind(there are plenty). 4. Have Miles reveal to her that he is Spiderman instead of the other way around? Why? Character Growth!!! This will make her much more conflicted, while also giving us very small clues that she have something to do with it. This helps in her being redeemable later on while teaching Miles why it is dangerous to reveal your identity. 5. Have her give her life away after all the battle is over as per usual for a heart-wreatching moment while giving Miles that moment after in dealing with the mastermind. Would make for some great drama and close off her story in a more sad way This turns Phin into a tragic character that didnt have any outlet to relieve her trauma except through the way the mastermind lead her on into doing.
I thought something similar too, considering phin works out of fisk tower, have fisk be the one manipulating her from the prison. would make it more interesting
I loved the Miles Morales game, I sure did. But I can see your point on why Phin is a bad villainess. Hell, I honestly prefer the 2018 Spider-man game more, because of the fact it has more villains, the ones that are memorable!
I agree that phin isn’t a good villain, but I don’t agree that the entire game is poorly written. Weaker than the first game absolutely I would even argue that the second game has overall a better story than miles. However, I will say seeing Miles’s character developed into his own Spider-Man seeing more of his life since it’s about him and his friends and family was really great. I understand that having a bad villain does hurt the plot of any story, but I don’t think having a bad villain inherently makes the story itself bad just a weaker .
i dont disagree with you, for the record i really like the game. ive played it an unhealthy number of times lol. but the thing is a story is not it's individual parts but the combination of everything in the narrative. so while i 100% agree that miles' development is cool (minus some nitpicks about parker nerfing) and miles is really good in the game, problem is that phin is the focus of the whole game. so yeah a bad villain doesnt make the story bad, but when your main narrative has to focus on said villain, that's when it becomes an issue. it's like i said in the video, its not that theres any huge glaring issues with the story, but smaller things that just kinda pile up and become a pile of shit lol.... Still love the game, would play again soon lol.
Besides her design (villain) she is pretty forgetful. I hate that we had all this build up of a relationship to have nothing explained, mentioned, or even noticed by the MAIN CHARACTERS WHO ARE FIGHTING TO THE DEATH. I hate that they made Miles a yes man or to shy to point something out, knowing that she is in the wrong but poor Phinny Phin lost her BROBRO so she has every right to do the things she did. Then for Phin to not acknowledge ANY of the destruction she has caused on her rampage for revenge is a spit in the face. So when she died, I kinda shrugged and said "she had potential but all well". Phin caused multiple gang violence by assisting the thugs, she legit broke Miles body MULTIPLE TIMES, lost her temper with Rhino, ENDANGERED an entire city by throwing all kinds of weapons at Spider-Miles, and more. How were we supposed to be sympathetic for her again, they legit had point A setup then skipped all the way to point Z with no set-up. I still wished the Miles' Spider-Man game was longer so we can explore this
This reminds me of Mystique in the X-Men: Days of Future Past film. She refuses to listen to Charles or Eric after they repeatedly try to warn her about what killing Trask would lead to. At every turn until the last minute, she's irrationally vengeful (The motive behind it feels like a cheaply inflated plot device the writers used as a crutch) and closes her ears to everyone, seeing every character who gets in her way even unintentionally as a foe. Raven hating mutant abuse isn't bad, but the way it's used here feels like a disservice to her prior development. She acts uncharacteristically immature + dumb. *I'll elaborate on my thoughts below:* She's on the warpath to avenge all the mutants Trask tortured/killed in his research. Yet, we see little to no indication of her having developed a relationship with said mutants she's apparently so broken up about. Like, we get it. Mutant prejudice is bad, and Raven was a victim of it throughout her life. But she's NOT an adolescent child anymore by this point in the timeline. It feels out of character for her to break her heart this much over every mutant suffering at human hands. There's no evidence that she even knew some of them, let alone got attached to them. Ex- When did she start caring so much about Emma Frost? Eric calling all mutants "brother & sister" fits for him, but Raven had left Magneto and no longer followed his ideology by that point. She also showed no signs of viewing mutantkind as a collective family where every mutant life lost (even at the hands of cruelty) is a tragedy. She had no qualms about fighting or killing mutants before. Trask wasn't doing it in self defense, yes. But the notion of Mystique getting so emotional over his actions just makes me wonder "Did Raven seriously not learn or deduce by now that this mutant experimentation was happening? I thought she spent years infiltrating the govt. to help Eric get data on this stuff so they could coordinate against the humans' efforts." As awful as this stuff was, it shouldn't have been news to her after the years she spent under Magento's command. People can change, sure. But the timing of this just doesn't work in my opinion and feels like a regression of Raven's character. She's an adult who's supposed to be capable of basic reason + logic without letting emotions rule her. Crying at every file + photo of a mistreated mutant to the point that she's determined to kill Trask at any cost feels to me like her character was written this way purposefully. It's like the writers couldn't think of a more nuanced narrative for this conflict to happen. So, they used Raven as a vehicle to basically drag it out while giving Charles & Eric a common opponent who was familiar to fans of the movies (since Trask and the Sentinels were new to the cinematic X-Men franchise). I'm not saying, of course, that Mystique can't be emotional and has to always be cold like her older self (played by Rebecca Romijn) was often portrayed to be. But she never showed this kind of irrationality in First Class because it was implied that she already carried trauma from her childhood (before Charles first met her) and had long repressed it as a survival technique via compartmentalization. Ex- She didn't reject Charles and choose to join Magneto out of blind hate. She left because they had irreconcilable ideological differences at the time. She disagreed with Xavier's philosophy and leaned toward Eric's. "Mutant and proud" wasn't an emotionally driven rebellion. It's what she believed about herself and thought all mutants deserved. She formed this POV on a basis of logic, not just feelings. All that said, her rage in Days of Future Past feels like such a deliberately heavy-handed contrivance (not that plot contrivances can't work, but they have to feel organic) that only gets dragged out for so long so the conflict can progress. It's like the writers are screaming: "Don't question it, Raven just has to be this mad until the last minute or the film falls apart!" However you justify it, the execution comes across like a crutch in an otherwise quickly resolvable plot. If her vendetta against Trask had to be part of the script, I would've simply paced it better, concluded it more naturally, and found a way for her to be part of the final battle while making decisions that positively change history in ways that the older Charles & Eric didn't anticipate.
Honestly it’s the same story. But the problem is that A: We don’t get to know Phin for more that a scene before she’s revealed to be a villain and B: she never shows any remorse. Martin wanted to do good. But he couldn’t let Norman get away with what he did. Meanwhile, Phin bends over backwards to blame everyone else. She even blamed Spider-Man for Rio getting hurt in the shootout she caused. It also doesn’t help that their targets while similar in design are far from the same level. Norman is Osorp and mostly NYC. Kreager is one Roxon exec not the whole company. He is far easier to take down legally and illegally. Semi legal rout, take some Newform to Rand or Stark, they run tests, find out the stuff is causing cancer, Iron Man or Iron Fist take down Kreager. (Though she wouldn’t have known Iron Fist would help. Rand just has a good rep and could get the information out.) Illegal rout, sniper rifle. She didn’t need an army of hipsters for this. Phin is an obsessive genious who made tech that put her on par with Spider-Man. There were so many ways she could have gone about things. Instead she took the rout that made her almost as bad as the guy willingly giving people cancer.
yes this! omg i shouldve mentioned this in the video too, Norman IS oscorp. crushing either oscorp or norman personally destroys the other too in a sense. in case of Roxxon Krieger isnt even the CEO or anything, he's just a ubisoft exec at a new job.
Thank you so much! I hope my future videos are just as entertaining :D Idk if id cover spiderverse because frankly i think they are the perfect spiderman movies and i can neither add nor critique to them for the most part...but they fixed miles. But hey who knows might do it after suicide squad kill the justice league lol
Could we have old man Tinkerer and he’s a teacher of Miles? It literally writes itself since Peter could talk about the downfall of his teacher Dr. Connors.
It definitely could work yeah. And it could even be interesting to draw a direct parallel to otto/connors about how otto and connor lost them selves to an external source created by their own inventions/accidents whereas Phineas mason is maybe a grieving father/grandfather or making him just comic book bad guy. I think old man tinkerer would work fine
The thing that made me mad the most was Miles' refusal to lock in during her boss fight in the skyscraper. Hes seeing what's happening to Harlem but hes trying to talk to Phin.
this is something i comepletely forgot to mention. but okay miles is trying to talk to her despite the situation being dire even though she wont listen compare this to peter, who once he realises otto is beyond reason immediately stops pulling his punches and goes for the win
i think the black cat and hammerhead dlc part 1 was fine. like it wasnt anything unique but it was a decent comic booky crime story. and had one of my favourite running gags in the game "digboy" lol. but then the silver sable dlc was pretty messy.
@@Demonically_Inspired it just didn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. Part one was okay I guess but part 2 and 3 are just random nonsense: SSI left so many weapon stashes around town that it would be enough to conquer the entirety of the US; with all that equipment the mercs should have purged Martin Li and his gang in less than 2 days. Also the side quest in chapter 3 with David felt really out of place: you spend a good part of the main game fighting silver sable soldiers who are depicted as comically cruel and evil, and yet David is quite the opposite, while showing no remorse for joining the organisation and without condemning their methods. And finally: is Hammerhead really that big of a threat in the comics? I get that he is all buffed up by the armor but it’s way overdone and he makes the base game villains look weak af imo.
@@allopic3764 this i agree with. SSI tech is so bullshit. how li or sinister 6 even posed a threat to them is ridiculous lol. part 1 was okay, no harm done. part 2 i liked yuris overall arc, tho i'd tweak it a bit more. because most of it happens off screen lmao. and part 3 is just there. aaaand why the fuck did they cyborg hammerhead when silvermane is a spiderman villain who;'s entire schtick is that.
Bro, I can not even measure how little I cared about Phin's "trauma" and character after her plan would result in the nuking of an entire section of New York, especially after Miles tries so hard to explain to her thick headed self.
This i agree with. Setting aside my disdain for her writing. Comparing to the first game she may have one of the best bosses in the series (not including 2 since i havent played it yet)
i have the same feeling about phin she could have been a fun villain but she was extremely annoying acting like she's right and miles is wrong and what's worst miles keeps getting angry at uncle arron while he gave phin multiple chances and passes. even in spider-man 2 he still has trust issues with his uncle. it was the writers who messed this up, and with what's going on with gaming lately you can see who insomniac was teaming up with.
Oh man i wouldnt touch that topic with a 10 foot pole unless i did proper research. And i will. I plan make a video on them too but its like where do i even start lol
@Demonically_Inspired take your time. Other youtubers are talking about the 'group' you don't have to, only if you are interested. Do videos you are interested
@czms922 i feel like honestly having rick be the tinkerer solves everything lol. Or swapping phin and ricks roles. You can still have phin/rick and miles be close and rick being a genius inventor makes sense considering he made nuform. And its his arrogance to think krieger couldnt have developed more nuform without him but later reveal that he did. Thats it. Now everything somewhat works
I love Phin getting mad that Miles didn't tell her he was Spider-Man while not only not telling him that she's the Prowler, but also attacking a rally that was being held by his mother. And then getting mad at Miles for "betraying her" when he's literally being beaten to death by Roxxon's people so they can explicitly dissect his corpse. She's such an unlikable hypocrite and the game just kind of quietly hopes you won't care.
I wish phin was a better character, like her purple futuristic looking tech is SO COOL, I wish she was playable and maybe(miles love interest), idk maybe,
Yeah her tech looks cool and she has a decent design, its a shame that her character is the definition of bad writing choices, and that includes her tech
This is not just with phin, but with other female antagonists. Take the case Silver Sable. Her is charcter extremely annoying in the main game outside of the DLC. She tells Peter he is harassing her men, when her men is hunting Peter instead of securing gr27, catching demons, prisoners etc. When Peter does the work of her men she wants to beat him up. I would've been happy if Peter beat the shit out of her. Thankfully the DLC changed my opinion of hers to some extent
I still dont like the fact that peter lost every fight against sable. Like what? He can hold up a crane and dodge gunfire at point blank ranges but one lady was able to put him against the wall multiple times? Lol But i guess i understand where the writers are coming from too. Becsuse in today's climate having a woman be presented as weak wouldnt go over well with critiques and media in general so its a very delicate issue to balance but it could have been done better.
@@Demonically_Inspired Yeah the writing of the female characters is trash in the series. It's like another comment here. You can write male characters however you want, no would bat an eye. But if the female character is slightly off social media will pounce on them. I hope they rectify it in the next game, and come up with better written female characters, because the gameplay is so good and they have proved they can make an incredible Spider-Man game
It also doesn't help that she's conplaining about miles, when in the game we take down Nuform reactors in a much more productive way with Ganke. It's very disjointed in that sense
Not only that but her entire plan relied on destroying one single nuform reactor. When theres like 10 others in the city that csn be used as a base to create more lol
Yeah her tech does kinda break the story a bit. Granted, its not quite as insane as ocks. Programmable matter has to have its forms programmed in, which is why she kept making new ones. Also the tech sacrifices durability for reconstruction. Thats why the weapons get shattered, but reassemble. Also no neurolink. They should have said it was another project rick was working on, and she just stole it.....
Its actually worse than ock imo. Even pre programmed her tech can do do much nonsense you gotta wonder why a genius like otto couldnt have retractable arms instead of those bulky piles of metal on his back
@@Demonically_Inspired his arms were retractable. The first time you see them, he walks into the room, and when Peter asks what happened to the arms, Otto unfolds them from his back. He just never put them away. In 2 Pete uses the same tech for his spider arms.
were they though? i mean i just assumed he had them behind his back for dramatic reveal lol. the game never shows them being retractable after that scene
I feel like the mission where you chase her through the city is a major red flag that she is a terrible sympathetic villain. Especially when you consider the fact that the moving cars and vehicles she destroys throughout the chase have innocent people in them.
yep, tbh i can somewhat ignore tht because you gotta accept some stuff for the cool factor in comic book games. like shocker blowing up streets or rhino destroying half the city, but yeah she has a lot of issues
ohh yeah i plan to do one on that! right after i stock up on like 10 cases of jack daniels and hire an emergancy nurse before i start playing it this weekend
I think these games just have trouble with writing female characters. Like for male characters, you can do whatever. Write them smart, stupid, annoying, weak, strong, we really don’t care. But with female characters they overcompensate to make them appear as good as possible. Probably to avoid any conflict with female audiences.
Even with male characters idk if you can do whatever. Because if the writing is ass no one gives a fuck. Look at jason todd in arkham knight or even better cole phelps in la noire. Cole is such a multifaceted character but the writing isnt strong enough to carry him and so he becomes memorable only for being insane during the interrogations
my mistake. good catch i didnt even notice i screwed up haha. what i meant was its a $50 game. and while it may not be a full priced one it's a fairly high priced game and so there should be some level of quality control on the writing, especially since its a game that is a single player narrative experience
Yeah the character was fine until she kinda flipped at the roxxon labs, then wouldn't listen even when the reactor was clearly unstable and was gonna damage more than the building. She went from being the smartest in the room....to the dumbest.......
Even before that imo she had issues. Her plan makes no sense. What good is destroying one reactor gonna do when roxxon has multiple others in the same city. "No one else but rick knows how to make nuform" thats not how it works. He didnt personally build every reactor from scratch. His team would know, there would be notes. She also put Rios life at risk
@@Demonically_Inspired I think her plan was to sabotage it and make it look like the reactors are faulty and unsafe,(which they are), but she doesn't understand subtlety, and just kind of declared war out in the open....
I'll probably do it 2 or 3 videos down the line since im a bit burnt out from drawing spiderman so much so i wanna draw other stuff. But I'll definitely come back to spiderman 2 and even the first game soon!
Yes but we live in a "diverse equitable and inclusive" era now and that means we gotta kick out all the old white dudes and replace them with queer female/trans/nonbinary pocs.
Tbh i feel like inclusivity and diversity isnt s bad thing. Provided you execute it well enough. Making your diverse characters just completely "can do no wrong" type of people makes them feel less human and frankly frustrating to watch. If the execution is good no one would bat an eye. For eg nick fury used to be white. But ultimate comics and mcu movies did a good job of characterizing him (before infinity war only) and so that became the definitive version for most people now. If the story you tell is good then most people wont care if you change stuff up. Problem is that in most cases execution is ass.
@@Demonically_Inspired Well if thts the case where's the white black panther? Or Luke Cage, the white falcon? People fr wouldn't be okay with it 🤦♂️ theres a lot of marvels caracters i can mention 😭
I loved the character and idea of Phin, and the nice moments between the two of them were great...but yeah, she has no legs to stand on with her hypocrisy and irresponsible actions.
@ChaosSk8z haha thanks! And yeah i think its all pretty subjective tbh. Plus disagreements are always good, especially with writing choices. It helps increase the quality through a feedback loop! Thanks for watching, hope you liked it!
Pete story also had many issues, MJ being Lois Lane for "strong woman" vibes, Peter creating a suit in hours, Silver being rude and violent at the same time you help her and accusing spidey in JJ style and logic but Miles entire arc feels very artificial, Miles puts in danger large crowds of people big time in 2 occasions without any casualties lol, Phin being Phin, saying "the Spider-man of our people" "our very own Spider-man" ???. Spidey was helping homeless people and rescuing pigeons in the first game, his entire character is being the hero of the common citizen. I think the only thing that they did right was the writing of the Prowler
Thing is, in case of pete. Mj does eventually learn. So does sable...even tho she does a 180 in dlc and shouldnt really be able to beat pete but eh its not harmful to the story as much. Phin IS fhe story. She is the main story. So if she isn't written well then neither is the main plot.
Theres no particularly huge reason lol, my favourite lightnovel/anime of all time is re zero so i just used a reference from that story as my channel name haha
The difference between Martin Li and Phin is that they may both have sympathetic backstories, but Martin is called out on it whenever he’s on screen and shows how ruthless he is. Phin is just acting like a petulant child throwing a tantrum cause her brother’s dead for putting himself in a dangerous situation
Thats exactly it.
I mean she is a teenager of course she’s going to act out crazy on it she is literally a TEENAGER her mind isn’t developed yet meanwhile Martin Li is a grown man so of course he’s more smarter with his moves
She doesn’t see the full picture because she’s so young she just misses her brother that was the only man in her life…and due to Roxxon he is dead…now she has nobody but miles and you gotta remember Phin is a teenager she’s so young she’s not gonna think fully straight if her mind isn’t developed fully yet
@@LilRichXXXBoomin Yeah she's never called out on her bullshit and the game treats her like a hero. She thinks she did nothing wrong and everyone else seems to think the same in game which is so dumb.
@@akdreamer6497 Nah bruh cuz at the end when miles saved her from falling phin said she was sorry and miles said it was ok
TLDR It's kinda hard to sympathize with this character you're supposed to sympathize with when she does really stupid and hypocritical things, from getting mad at Miles for hiding his identity when she was doing the same thing when she had her gang attack his mom's rally to refusing to listen to Miles about Roxxon guy sabotaging her plan to blaming Miles for them getting kidnapped as if he knew or should've known his uncle was working for Roxxon. And then you're supposed to feel bad for her because she sacrificed herself to save the city that wouldn't have been in danger if she wasn't being repeatedly stupid.
And unlike Doc Ock, she is FULLY in control of herself. So she has ZERO excuses for her actions. Heck, Otto would've had a better excuse even without the neural interface damaging his brain, since we at least get a better understanding of why he's dead set on completing his arms and wants Norman taken down at any cost.
@espurrseyes42 yeah this. All of this lol. I could somewhat ignore her not knowing miles didnt know about his uncle but even then thats because she didnt listen to him! I cut some stuff out because i got tired of drawing but theres so much more shit. Underground attacks feast trucks in some missions. The hell does attacking a homeless shelter do for their goal of taking down roxxon lol. They wanted the personal connection to the villains that the first gsme had but didnt understand why it worked the first time around
Oh shes also a jerk. You can hear the underground getting sicker because of nuform. Her tech keeps her safe but it doesnt keep them safe they are slowly dieing she knows about it and she was willing to let miles join.
Ahh women ☕️
Yeah which is why i feel like you csn either have her be unapologetically focused on her missions where shes discarded all regard for consequences like martin lee or it just doesnt work well
and this is a case of genre savviness so I can't fault her too much for it, but she at one point literally says "no one would have gotten hurt if that new Spiderman hadn't gotten in our way" without her at all questioning WHY she was someone Spiderman would WANT to get in the way of?
Miles sets up a meeting with her and the first thing she says is "I could of killed you." And I do say the only time the game calls her out is in the boss fight.
Even then it doesnt really call her out. Its just kinds the generic " stop this. This isnt you. Think of all the good you have done/can do"
I knew the writing of this series was getting worst when neither of them acknowledge that "her" "gang" attacked and tried to kill his own MOTHER, it's just never brought even in passing, it seemed like a pretty thing considering how miles feels about his Father being killed
Yeah exactly right? Its such a huge part of miles character in the insomniac verse that it should've been brought up or mentioned and phin should have been called out. Especially since we even have a scene where rio reassured miles that this wont be like city hall.
And that's why I don't like Phin.
To be fair the gang existed before she showed up as the tinkerer…..she just upgraded them to the super dangerous gang we saw in MM,
@@303jackson , them going from terrorists to super terrorists is why I never plan on buying anything from the PS5 games.
She armed what amounts to a terrorist cell with the most powerful tech anyone has seen and is more than likely fully aware they’re tearing apart the city. How is she OK with working with these people while maintaining she’s a good person?
Her blaming spider man for his mom getting hurt upset me
oh yeah "phin my mom got hurt because your terrorist strike was at my moms rally"
phin: nuh-uh it was because you interfered, not because i gave super weapons to mentally unstable criminals and attacked said rally.
And people still praise her and call her a "well-intentioned extremist".
@alexferrana3979 yep and then she does things that go completely against that lol
@@Demonically_Inspired yeah. I just hate her attitude and the fact that she's willing to hurt and even kill innocent people over an irrationa hatred and fear.
I think I would’ve preferred Phin get arrested than sacrifice herself. Like with Sam Raimi’s Dock Oc, despite willingly putting people in harm’s way, he was semi-influenced by his malfunctioning arms on top of losing everything. Plus, we get to see who Octavius was before his descent into madness. His motivations don’t change, just his methods. So when Peter convinces Otto that he needs to let go, Otto remembers why he did everything in the first place.
With Phin, the “redemption” at the end feels unearned because she refused to listen until the last second. And there wasn’t a consistent motivation like with Dock Oc, both film and game. Speaking of, the first game recognizes that Otto was in a difficult situation (with his body deteriorating among other things), but it doesn’t cut him any slack because he’s responsible for like a lot of people dying including May Parker.
To sum it up, Phin doesn’t suffer any consequences for her actions like other villains do.
Thats exactly it. Redemption has to feel earned and hers doesnt.
@@jexelbur6872 sounds a lot like a real world problem with a certain gender….
Feminism??? Naw phininism 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Her death felt less of a redemption and more like she’s trying to avoid responsibility for her actions.
@@jexelbur6872 other than death, but she had it coming🤣🤣
I did not feel sorry for her tbh. Miles lost his dad and almost his mom to *HER* and he’s not evil
It's like they made her into Hiro Hamada. With older brother working for the 'bad guy'.
i never even thought of that comparison, but yeah that's kinda it isnt it XD
@@akcaptainamer2703 yeah but he was more reasonable tbh. He wanted that man dead after tadashi and what he did to the group.
But after being talked down and realized what’s at stake, he got the situation under control. Can’t say the same for phin
So,etching that really bothered was a throwaway line by an underground npc near the start of one of bases. It’s a line where they state that they’re feeling sick around the nuform but they brush it off because Phin told them it’s safe or something around those lines. Suggesting that Phin is putting these unknowing people in the same kind of danger as her brother and yet the game never touches on this aspect except in a throwaway line.
Yeah exactly! And if i recall its not even just a random throwaway line. If i recall, im pretty sure its a line during the main story that happens when you're infiltrating the underground base or something. The story brings attention to it. Then ignores it lol
your spider man drawings are fire
@OnlineOliver thank you :D, i hope you enjoyed the video!
Didn't Miles have a friend who was the Vultures granddaughter? She should have been the main antagonist. Maybe she starts off an antagonist, but over the course of the game, they team up against a more street level villain like Silvermane or a Prowler copycat
oooh i could see that working tbh, that'd be interesting
To be fair about Phin’s plan to blow up Roxxon Plaza, it’s not that she thought destroying one building and one reactor would be enough to financially cripple the company. The most important part of the plan was ruining Nuform’s reputation as a viable energy source. Think like what Fukushima did to the nuclear power industry back in 2012. Before the incident. The US had at least 5 new reactors planned at the time, 1 was even already in construction, but as soon as Fukushima happened everything was halted. Those 4 new projects were straight up canceled and the 1 plant that was already half-built had its development delayed for years. The US is only now just getting back to building new nuclear reactors. And it was stated in the game that Roxxon had basically dumped all their money into Nuform development and marketing, so if it flopped so would the rest of the company. On top of that, the reactor in Roxxon Plaza was the only functional one they had since Phin’s brother was the only one who really knew how to make the stuff. At that point destroying the building was just a symbolic act.
I agree with you but the thing is underground was publicly attacking roxxon. And a company as big as roxxon would have cameras looking at the nuform reactors and the systems that control it. Itd get pointed out to be a terrorist attack easily i feel.
@@Demonically_Inspired - True, they could say that it was caused by terrorists, but that wouldn’t make people feel any safer about Nuform. Like I said, it would be similar to a Fukushima event. The Fukushima incident wasn’t caused by a faulty design or poor operational handling of the plant. It was just hit by a massive tsunami that the builders and engineers never thought would be able to happen in that particular region. And yet, even though the plant personnel did a great job handling a terrible situation, even preventing things from getting WAY worse, it still nearly killed the industry because people didn’t feel safe all of a sudden.
@@CJ-442 that's fair. if that was the goal, then sure the plan is fine. but it doesn't feel like the game wanted to present that as the plan or they did it in a poor way.
but if that was the goal of her plan then yeah that works for sure
But Nuforms reputation would have easily been saved since everyone could see that it was a terrorist attack. Phin is dumb
@@tetraxis3011 - You’re giving the general population way too much credit to see and react rationally. See my previous comments about how the Fukushima incident nearly ruined the nuclear industry worldwide. It was caused by a one in a million natural disaster. How is it rational to see how it took a 50 foot tsunami overtaking a sea wall to cause the Fukushima disaster, and then decide that the plants in Nebraska or Missouri are somehow at risk now? If a tsunami somehow reaches the nuclear plants in Midwestern America, we’ve got bigger problems than some radiation.
Terrorist attacks are much more deliberate and can happen anywhere. On top of that, the Roxxon Plaza reactor was the only Nuform reactor currently in service. If it took out part of Manhattan in a literal explosion, there’s no way they’re going to get approval to build new ones anywhere.
Honestly Phin is truly the Worst Part of this Game, we could have exploded that both Miles and Phin are not Different People, I wish that both the Thinker was simply Evil and that Rick was the Mastermind all along, it would’ve been a Better Direction for Miles’ Journey.
Ooh yeah that could have worked too!
Roxxon's plotlines didn't make any sense either, why would they put a reactor in the middle of a plaza? even if NuForm was safe, why put it in an area where anyone could mess with it? and since it wasn't sage, why would Roxxon's executive put it somewhere that would expose themselves to it every day?
And outside of Roxxon's shady activities, people seem to irrationally hate them for no reason, Miles's Mom makes her entire political campaign about fighting them, and people rag on them for "not keeping their promises" even though they've been around for less than 6 months, yet still built a massive skyscraper, and a clean energy reactor, meaning they're actually working incredibly fast
exactly. look its not even that. have you seen the property rates in new york lmao. why the fuck would any company worth its salt want to build a power plant in harlem, when they could easily do it in a more remote location and have the power be routed over to the city. and not to mention the pople of new york seem awfully cool with roxxon having a private militia in the city despite having first hand experience with how that turned out when sable was around
You're ignoring the human rights violations. There are protesters saying how their family members got sick or perished from New Form.
for the sake of comic book nonsense, a lot of realistic cause and effect have to be let go. such is the medium and im fine with it. but if you're gonna take liberties with some stuff, atleast make sure the other stuff sticks well lol
Because of the evulz...mwahahahahahahahaha.
All Krieger needed was a top hat and a mustache to twirl.
Then the game pretends that nuform( what a simple minded name for it) is the first energy source in the world that it is unsafe to rub yourself against.
As if nuclear energy isn't unsafe unless it is properly shielded.
But somehow, somehow, Krieger thinks that his entire R and D team getting sick and dying will never come back to haunt him.
He thinks that who knows how many people getting sick and dying from similar illness shortly after he plops his nuform( again. Stupid name) reactor in Harlem won't be noticed by the powers that be.
He has one of the stupidest plan in any game I have ever seen.
Gee it only took 3 fucking years for someone to finally realize this. Welcome to the party pa I've been waiting for you to catch up
Hey to be fair i was procrastinating for 3 years before i finally managed to make this video
Honestly your take is fair. The two major issues that I had with Phin were just how hard the game was trying to make us sympathize with her but also the suspension of disbeleif that some of the decisions of both Phin but also Roxxon.
I get that Roxxon is supposed to follow the evil corporation steryotype but making a reactor in a plaza in New York is stupid both from a financial standpoint but also from a safety point of view. Mind you I get that Roxxon doesn't care about their employees but I think they would care about public perception and it's a big red flag to put a reactor in a highly populated city.
Then there's Phin, her hatred towards Roxxon is perfectly understandable same with her motivations, my problem is how far the game goes to bat in trying to justify it. We get why she's mad but to the point of illogically trying to destroy Nuform but thinking Miles was trying to trick her was dumb. Not to mention she had alternatives to some of her plans but choosing to attack Miles Mom rally, which mind you technically supports her cause against Roxxon indirectly really doesn't make sense.
That and Phin's Phone still being conveniently placed in Roxxon's lab is questionable because why wouldn't it have been destroyed or recovered? Phin definitely had more potential as a character and was likeable when she was just hanging out with Miles but I kind of wish the game decided on if she was a love interest or like a sister to Miles since them going back and forth on it was dumb to me.
Oh man the love interest - like a sister thing is weird. And i completely forgot about the phone.
Also yeah what kind of asinine board of directors decided to have a powerplant in the middle of the city lol. Theres a reason most powerplants are more remotely located.
I hate being an adult I feel that
lol hurts doesn't it
@@Demonically_Inspired yes 🙂↕️my sleep schedule fucked on top of that I haven’t slept in days i sleep during the day sometimes I stay hope for a day or two
I feel like the writing in both MM and 2 kinda sucked, especially compared to the first game. I'm genuinely afraid that they might ruin Doc Ock, because not only is he my favorite Spidey villain, but Insomniac's version might just be my favorite of him
I havent played 2 so i cant speak for it yet, but ive heard its a "very safe sequel"
@@Demonically_InspiredSPOILER ALERT:
Peter gets sidelined for a lot of the game only to be completely replaced by Miles at the end. Peter is blamed for his actions when being taken over by the Symbiote(which, except for not giving it back to harry, are really not that bad) but when MJ gets turned into Scream, she says ALOT of nasty stuff to Pete and MJ NEVER APOLOGIZED. H yea and Kraven is completely wasted as a villain in the story. And they completely bastardized Yuris character. Plus a lot of weird side and main content. MJ is somehow capable of taking down experienced hunters working for kraven, a side mission for miles is…….helping a gay dude ask out someone for homecoming….(what a wast of Spider-Man time). And on one of the other missions, you play as Miles deaf Gf(who expresses her thoughts through….emojis? God the devs have never met a deaf person IRL) and the mission has her…….commit a crime. (She vandalizes a wall with graffiti about racism).
Plus some really strange decisions for the game like:
Pretty much removing the entirety of NYCs Police force.
Having Peter go on an anti-gun rant.
Have this podcast run by some woman who is supposed to be the opposite of JJJ, but her takes are literally the same as MSM, which ruins the point of a podcast.
The complete removal of random crimes in the city.
Basically have Miles be the main Spidey, having him save Peter a lot of times.
Stuff like that.
@@tetraxis3011 that sounds awful. oh i gotta see this.
Idk what happened with insomniac writhing quality because after the city never sleep dlc the story and writhing quality has been going downhill.
Being an adult does suck
yep.
I truly believe she can be a great character if a couple of things are changed/in place:
1. She isn't as obvious as the freaking sun in being the Tinkerer. Rework the story into a mystery story in seeing Miles trying to figure out this unknown but powerful figure that is behind this group of powered up bad guys. Phin in this case is Miles best friend of course but she is more involved in the story in a way that completely keeps you from guessing that she is the one behind it all.
2. Have Phin be truly fuel by past trauma for the thrid reason
3. Also have someone who is using Phin as the puppet. Would help in making her character redeemable since she was mislead. Throw in a smart Spiderman villain in there as the mastermind(there are plenty).
4. Have Miles reveal to her that he is Spiderman instead of the other way around? Why? Character Growth!!! This will make her much more conflicted, while also giving us very small clues that she have something to do with it. This helps in her being redeemable later on while teaching Miles why it is dangerous to reveal your identity.
5. Have her give her life away after all the battle is over as per usual for a heart-wreatching moment while giving Miles that moment after in dealing with the mastermind. Would make for some great drama and close off her story in a more sad way
This turns Phin into a tragic character that didnt have any outlet to relieve her trauma except through the way the mastermind lead her on into doing.
I thought something similar too, considering phin works out of fisk tower, have fisk be the one manipulating her from the prison. would make it more interesting
Proudly here before your channel blows up 💙. Great video
@@albedozer0708 thank you so much, i appreciate the support!
I loved the Miles Morales game, I sure did. But I can see your point on why Phin is a bad villainess. Hell, I honestly prefer the 2018 Spider-man game more, because of the fact it has more villains, the ones that are memorable!
definitely. the first game's story is more engaging
Phin, like many other 'tragic' villain, writing problem, is that she suffer the "You went from understandable to straight up stupid".
i feel like she started off stupid then tried to pull the tragic card
I agree that phin isn’t a good villain, but I don’t agree that the entire game is poorly written. Weaker than the first game absolutely I would even argue that the second game has overall a better story than miles. However, I will say seeing Miles’s character developed into his own Spider-Man seeing more of his life since it’s about him and his friends and family was really great.
I understand that having a bad villain does hurt the plot of any story, but I don’t think having a bad villain inherently makes the story itself bad just a weaker .
i dont disagree with you, for the record i really like the game. ive played it an unhealthy number of times lol. but the thing is a story is not it's individual parts but the combination of everything in the narrative. so while i 100% agree that miles' development is cool (minus some nitpicks about parker nerfing) and miles is really good in the game, problem is that phin is the focus of the whole game. so yeah a bad villain doesnt make the story bad, but when your main narrative has to focus on said villain, that's when it becomes an issue.
it's like i said in the video, its not that theres any huge glaring issues with the story, but smaller things that just kinda pile up and become a pile of shit lol.... Still love the game, would play again soon lol.
@@Demonically_Inspired ah I gotcha and that’s fair. Also I love your artwork
Thank you :D
Besides her design (villain) she is pretty forgetful. I hate that we had all this build up of a relationship to have nothing explained, mentioned, or even noticed by the MAIN CHARACTERS WHO ARE FIGHTING TO THE DEATH.
I hate that they made Miles a yes man or to shy to point something out, knowing that she is in the wrong but poor Phinny Phin lost her BROBRO so she has every right to do the things she did. Then for Phin to not acknowledge ANY of the destruction she has caused on her rampage for revenge is a spit in the face. So when she died, I kinda shrugged and said "she had potential but all well".
Phin caused multiple gang violence by assisting the thugs, she legit broke Miles body MULTIPLE TIMES, lost her temper with Rhino, ENDANGERED an entire city by throwing all kinds of weapons at Spider-Miles, and more. How were we supposed to be sympathetic for her again, they legit had point A setup then skipped all the way to point Z with no set-up. I still wished the Miles' Spider-Man game was longer so we can explore this
i dont even think length would help, the damage was already done with the way she was written as is
This reminds me of Mystique in the X-Men: Days of Future Past film. She refuses to listen to Charles or Eric after they repeatedly try to warn her about what killing Trask would lead to. At every turn until the last minute, she's irrationally vengeful (The motive behind it feels like a cheaply inflated plot device the writers used as a crutch) and closes her ears to everyone, seeing every character who gets in her way even unintentionally as a foe. Raven hating mutant abuse isn't bad, but the way it's used here feels like a disservice to her prior development. She acts uncharacteristically immature + dumb.
*I'll elaborate on my thoughts below:*
She's on the warpath to avenge all the mutants Trask tortured/killed in his research. Yet, we see little to no indication of her having developed a relationship with said mutants she's apparently so broken up about. Like, we get it. Mutant prejudice is bad, and Raven was a victim of it throughout her life. But she's NOT an adolescent child anymore by this point in the timeline. It feels out of character for her to break her heart this much over every mutant suffering at human hands.
There's no evidence that she even knew some of them, let alone got attached to them. Ex- When did she start caring so much about Emma Frost? Eric calling all mutants "brother & sister" fits for him, but Raven had left Magneto and no longer followed his ideology by that point. She also showed no signs of viewing mutantkind as a collective family where every mutant life lost (even at the hands of cruelty) is a tragedy. She had no qualms about fighting or killing mutants before.
Trask wasn't doing it in self defense, yes. But the notion of Mystique getting so emotional over his actions just makes me wonder "Did Raven seriously not learn or deduce by now that this mutant experimentation was happening? I thought she spent years infiltrating the govt. to help Eric get data on this stuff so they could coordinate against the humans' efforts." As awful as this stuff was, it shouldn't have been news to her after the years she spent under Magento's command.
People can change, sure. But the timing of this just doesn't work in my opinion and feels like a regression of Raven's character. She's an adult who's supposed to be capable of basic reason + logic without letting emotions rule her. Crying at every file + photo of a mistreated mutant to the point that she's determined to kill Trask at any cost feels to me like her character was written this way purposefully. It's like the writers couldn't think of a more nuanced narrative for this conflict to happen. So, they used Raven as a vehicle to basically drag it out while giving Charles & Eric a common opponent who was familiar to fans of the movies (since Trask and the Sentinels were new to the cinematic X-Men franchise).
I'm not saying, of course, that Mystique can't be emotional and has to always be cold like her older self (played by Rebecca Romijn) was often portrayed to be. But she never showed this kind of irrationality in First Class because it was implied that she already carried trauma from her childhood (before Charles first met her) and had long repressed it as a survival technique via compartmentalization. Ex- She didn't reject Charles and choose to join Magneto out of blind hate.
She left because they had irreconcilable ideological differences at the time. She disagreed with Xavier's philosophy and leaned toward Eric's. "Mutant and proud" wasn't an emotionally driven rebellion. It's what she believed about herself and thought all mutants deserved. She formed this POV on a basis of logic, not just feelings. All that said, her rage in Days of Future Past feels like such a deliberately heavy-handed contrivance (not that plot contrivances can't work, but they have to feel organic) that only gets dragged out for so long so the conflict can progress. It's like the writers are screaming:
"Don't question it, Raven just has to be this mad until the last minute or the film falls apart!" However you justify it, the execution comes across like a crutch in an otherwise quickly resolvable plot. If her vendetta against Trask had to be part of the script, I would've simply paced it better, concluded it more naturally, and found a way for her to be part of the final battle while making decisions that positively change history in ways that the older Charles & Eric didn't anticipate.
Man days of future past is its own can of worms that i dont even want to start on lol
Honestly it’s the same story. But the problem is that A: We don’t get to know Phin for more that a scene before she’s revealed to be a villain and B: she never shows any remorse. Martin wanted to do good. But he couldn’t let Norman get away with what he did. Meanwhile, Phin bends over backwards to blame everyone else. She even blamed Spider-Man for Rio getting hurt in the shootout she caused. It also doesn’t help that their targets while similar in design are far from the same level. Norman is Osorp and mostly NYC. Kreager is one Roxon exec not the whole company. He is far easier to take down legally and illegally. Semi legal rout, take some Newform to Rand or Stark, they run tests, find out the stuff is causing cancer, Iron Man or Iron Fist take down Kreager. (Though she wouldn’t have known Iron Fist would help. Rand just has a good rep and could get the information out.) Illegal rout, sniper rifle. She didn’t need an army of hipsters for this. Phin is an obsessive genious who made tech that put her on par with Spider-Man. There were so many ways she could have gone about things. Instead she took the rout that made her almost as bad as the guy willingly giving people cancer.
yes this! omg i shouldve mentioned this in the video too, Norman IS oscorp. crushing either oscorp or norman personally destroys the other too in a sense. in case of Roxxon Krieger isnt even the CEO or anything, he's just a ubisoft exec at a new job.
This was fantastic, man! Would love to see you talk about Spiderverse. Keep it up, definitely an underrated channel.
Thank you so much! I hope my future videos are just as entertaining :D
Idk if id cover spiderverse because frankly i think they are the perfect spiderman movies and i can neither add nor critique to them for the most part...but they fixed miles. But hey who knows might do it after suicide squad kill the justice league lol
@@Demonically_Inspired Either way, can't wait to see it!
Could we have old man Tinkerer and he’s a teacher of Miles? It literally writes itself since Peter could talk about the downfall of his teacher Dr. Connors.
erm actually its dr octavius
It definitely could work yeah. And it could even be interesting to draw a direct parallel to otto/connors about how otto and connor lost them selves to an external source created by their own inventions/accidents whereas Phineas mason is maybe a grieving father/grandfather or making him just comic book bad guy. I think old man tinkerer would work fine
The thing that made me mad the most was Miles' refusal to lock in during her boss fight in the skyscraper. Hes seeing what's happening to Harlem but hes trying to talk to Phin.
this is something i comepletely forgot to mention. but okay miles is trying to talk to her despite the situation being dire even though she wont listen
compare this to peter, who once he realises otto is beyond reason immediately stops pulling his punches and goes for the win
dude, ur drawings are so cool man! amazing video too! i hope u get famous one day!
thank you! i hope you enjoy the future videos as well
I still can't decide what's worse: sm1's dlc story or miles morales's
i think the black cat and hammerhead dlc part 1 was fine. like it wasnt anything unique but it was a decent comic booky crime story. and had one of my favourite running gags in the game "digboy" lol. but then the silver sable dlc was pretty messy.
@@Demonically_Inspired it just didn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. Part one was okay I guess but part 2 and 3 are just random nonsense: SSI left so many weapon stashes around town that it would be enough to conquer the entirety of the US; with all that equipment the mercs should have purged Martin Li and his gang in less than 2 days. Also the side quest in chapter 3 with David felt really out of place: you spend a good part of the main game fighting silver sable soldiers who are depicted as comically cruel and evil, and yet David is quite the opposite, while showing no remorse for joining the organisation and without condemning their methods. And finally: is Hammerhead really that big of a threat in the comics? I get that he is all buffed up by the armor but it’s way overdone and he makes the base game villains look weak af imo.
@@allopic3764 this i agree with. SSI tech is so bullshit. how li or sinister 6 even posed a threat to them is ridiculous lol. part 1 was okay, no harm done. part 2 i liked yuris overall arc, tho i'd tweak it a bit more. because most of it happens off screen lmao. and part 3 is just there. aaaand why the fuck did they cyborg hammerhead when silvermane is a spiderman villain who;'s entire schtick is that.
Bro, I can not even measure how little I cared about Phin's "trauma" and character after her plan would result in the nuking of an entire section of New York, especially after Miles tries so hard to explain to her thick headed self.
right? it becomes reeeallly hard to sympathize with anything she does
Bad character, awesome boss fight
This i agree with. Setting aside my disdain for her writing. Comparing to the first game she may have one of the best bosses in the series (not including 2 since i havent played it yet)
i have the same feeling about phin she could have been a fun villain but she was extremely annoying acting like she's right and miles is wrong and what's worst miles keeps getting angry at uncle arron while he gave phin multiple chances and passes. even in spider-man 2 he still has trust issues with his uncle.
it was the writers who messed this up, and with what's going on with gaming lately you can see who insomniac was teaming up with.
Oh man i wouldnt touch that topic with a 10 foot pole unless i did proper research. And i will. I plan make a video on them too but its like where do i even start lol
@Demonically_Inspired take your time. Other youtubers are talking about the 'group' you don't have to, only if you are interested.
Do videos you are interested
@@shub125 thanks for the support, and yeah i only do stuff i like to talk about haha
Phin mason, a creative idea for a new tinkerer, buttttt poor execution
@czms922 i feel like honestly having rick be the tinkerer solves everything lol. Or swapping phin and ricks roles. You can still have phin/rick and miles be close and rick being a genius inventor makes sense considering he made nuform. And its his arrogance to think krieger couldnt have developed more nuform without him but later reveal that he did. Thats it. Now everything somewhat works
So true.
Congratulations, you just earned a new subscriber.
thank you! i really appreciate it, hope you enjoy future videos as well :)
I love Phin getting mad that Miles didn't tell her he was Spider-Man while not only not telling him that she's the Prowler, but also attacking a rally that was being held by his mother. And then getting mad at Miles for "betraying her" when he's literally being beaten to death by Roxxon's people so they can explicitly dissect his corpse. She's such an unlikable hypocrite and the game just kind of quietly hopes you won't care.
the game actively tries to make you think she isnt fully wrong lol
I think the way you presented a rewrite is honestly perfect and you made me realize how badley written she actually is😂
I honestly missed out stuff that other folks in the comments pointed out lmao.
I wish phin was a better character, like her purple futuristic looking tech is SO COOL, I wish she was playable and maybe(miles love interest), idk maybe,
Yeah her tech looks cool and she has a decent design, its a shame that her character is the definition of bad writing choices, and that includes her tech
As much as I don't like Phin, god damn her boss fight was fun as hell
100%. its a fun boss fight
This is not just with phin, but with other female antagonists.
Take the case Silver Sable. Her is charcter extremely annoying in the main game outside of the DLC. She tells Peter he is harassing her men, when her men is hunting Peter instead of securing gr27, catching demons, prisoners etc. When Peter does the work of her men she wants to beat him up. I would've been happy if Peter beat the shit out of her.
Thankfully the DLC changed my opinion of hers to some extent
I still dont like the fact that peter lost every fight against sable. Like what? He can hold up a crane and dodge gunfire at point blank ranges but one lady was able to put him against the wall multiple times? Lol
But i guess i understand where the writers are coming from too. Becsuse in today's climate having a woman be presented as weak wouldnt go over well with critiques and media in general so its a very delicate issue to balance but it could have been done better.
@@Demonically_Inspired Yeah the writing of the female characters is trash in the series. It's like another comment here. You can write male characters however you want, no would bat an eye. But if the female character is slightly off social media will pounce on them.
I hope they rectify it in the next game, and come up with better written female characters, because the gameplay is so good and they have proved they can make an incredible Spider-Man game
It also doesn't help that she's conplaining about miles, when in the game we take down Nuform reactors in a much more productive way with Ganke. It's very disjointed in that sense
Not only that but her entire plan relied on destroying one single nuform reactor. When theres like 10 others in the city that csn be used as a base to create more lol
Yeah her tech does kinda break the story a bit. Granted, its not quite as insane as ocks. Programmable matter has to have its forms programmed in, which is why she kept making new ones. Also the tech sacrifices durability for reconstruction. Thats why the weapons get shattered, but reassemble. Also no neurolink. They should have said it was another project rick was working on, and she just stole it.....
Its actually worse than ock imo. Even pre programmed her tech can do do much nonsense you gotta wonder why a genius like otto couldnt have retractable arms instead of those bulky piles of metal on his back
@@Demonically_Inspired his arms were retractable. The first time you see them, he walks into the room, and when Peter asks what happened to the arms, Otto unfolds them from his back. He just never put them away. In 2 Pete uses the same tech for his spider arms.
were they though? i mean i just assumed he had them behind his back for dramatic reveal lol. the game never shows them being retractable after that scene
I love the drawings!
Thank you!
I only now remember her name
remembering any more might be a bit much lol
I feel like the mission where you chase her through the city is a major red flag that she is a terrible sympathetic villain. Especially when you consider the fact that the moving cars and vehicles she destroys throughout the chase have innocent people in them.
yep, tbh i can somewhat ignore tht because you gotta accept some stuff for the cool factor in comic book games. like shocker blowing up streets or rhino destroying half the city, but yeah she has a lot of issues
your art is so good
thanks a lot :D
@@Demonically_Inspired you are welcome
Cam you talk about all of the problems about Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League?
ohh yeah i plan to do one on that! right after i stock up on like 10 cases of jack daniels and hire an emergancy nurse before i start playing it this weekend
I think these games just have trouble with writing female characters. Like for male characters, you can do whatever. Write them smart, stupid, annoying, weak, strong, we really don’t care.
But with female characters they overcompensate to make them appear as good as possible. Probably to avoid any conflict with female audiences.
Even with male characters idk if you can do whatever. Because if the writing is ass no one gives a fuck. Look at jason todd in arkham knight or even better cole phelps in la noire. Cole is such a multifaceted character but the writing isnt strong enough to carry him and so he becomes memorable only for being insane during the interrogations
Miles morales wasn’t a full price game.
my mistake. good catch i didnt even notice i screwed up haha. what i meant was its a $50 game. and while it may not be a full priced one it's a fairly high priced game and so there should be some level of quality control on the writing, especially since its a game that is a single player narrative experience
Great video
Thank you :D
@@Demonically_Inspired of course!
Yeah the character was fine until she kinda flipped at the roxxon labs, then wouldn't listen even when the reactor was clearly unstable and was gonna damage more than the building. She went from being the smartest in the room....to the dumbest.......
Even before that imo she had issues. Her plan makes no sense. What good is destroying one reactor gonna do when roxxon has multiple others in the same city. "No one else but rick knows how to make nuform" thats not how it works. He didnt personally build every reactor from scratch. His team would know, there would be notes. She also put Rios life at risk
@@Demonically_Inspired I think her plan was to sabotage it and make it look like the reactors are faulty and unsafe,(which they are), but she doesn't understand subtlety, and just kind of declared war out in the open....
domestic terrorism go brr lmao
Didn't say Phin is pain
0/10
*gasp* how dare i... jk we at demonically inspired try not to make existing jokes...we do however find them hilarious.
i need ur thoughts on marvels spiderman 2 story
I'll probably do it 2 or 3 videos down the line since im a bit burnt out from drawing spiderman so much so i wanna draw other stuff.
But I'll definitely come back to spiderman 2 and even the first game soon!
Phin sucked...nuff said
totally.
Yeah, Phin sucked. Couldn’t stand her. Miles was totally in the right
yup
Wasn't the Tinkerer an old white dude?
Yes but we live in a "diverse equitable and inclusive" era now and that means we gotta kick out all the old white dudes and replace them with queer female/trans/nonbinary pocs.
You know how they just love to race lift these days
He still is in the comics. Tbh i dont even mind the overhaul. My gripe is that the writing is bad
Tbh i feel like inclusivity and diversity isnt s bad thing. Provided you execute it well enough. Making your diverse characters just completely "can do no wrong" type of people makes them feel less human and frankly frustrating to watch. If the execution is good no one would bat an eye. For eg nick fury used to be white. But ultimate comics and mcu movies did a good job of characterizing him (before infinity war only) and so that became the definitive version for most people now.
If the story you tell is good then most people wont care if you change stuff up. Problem is that in most cases execution is ass.
@@Demonically_Inspired Well if thts the case where's the white black panther? Or Luke Cage, the white falcon? People fr wouldn't be okay with it 🤦♂️ theres a lot of marvels caracters i can mention 😭
"Remebah Da Time Miles."
I loved the character and idea of Phin, and the nice moments between the two of them were great...but yeah, she has no legs to stand on with her hypocrisy and irresponsible actions.
yeah it's pretty unfortunate, she couldve been cool
Algorithm
I agree and disagree with a lot in this video but that’s how you know it’s a good debate video 🔥🔥🔥
@ChaosSk8z haha thanks! And yeah i think its all pretty subjective tbh. Plus disagreements are always good, especially with writing choices. It helps increase the quality through a feedback loop! Thanks for watching, hope you liked it!
Pete story also had many issues, MJ being Lois Lane for "strong woman" vibes, Peter creating a suit in hours, Silver being rude and violent at the same time you help her and accusing spidey in JJ style and logic but Miles entire arc feels very artificial, Miles puts in danger large crowds of people big time in 2 occasions without any casualties lol, Phin being Phin, saying "the Spider-man of our people" "our very own Spider-man" ???. Spidey was helping homeless people and rescuing pigeons in the first game, his entire character is being the hero of the common citizen. I think the only thing that they did right was the writing of the Prowler
Thing is, in case of pete. Mj does eventually learn. So does sable...even tho she does a 180 in dlc and shouldnt really be able to beat pete but eh its not harmful to the story as much.
Phin IS fhe story. She is the main story. So if she isn't written well then neither is the main plot.
The only good thing about muphin is her final boss fight. Other than that she's an obnoxious mary sue villain. Miles did nothing wrong
her boss fight is pretty sweet tho..shame her writing had to be like THAT
Whys your name demonically inspired
Theres no particularly huge reason lol, my favourite lightnovel/anime of all time is re zero so i just used a reference from that story as my channel name haha
@@Demonically_Inspired fair
They ruined the tinkerer with the drastic changes
old man tinkerer wasnt modern enough i guess
I did end up on the streets. I had a house and a nice job and it was all taken away by a woman.
Get on the come up again, this your comeback season!
Phin was garbage
I would say mor like squandered potential lol
@@Demonically_Inspired Garbage we cant focus on what could have been what we have is hot garbage plot
Lol fair enough.